Behemoth: The Land of Giants

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>>50799790

Last thread
>>50729632


And if you feel you must bump, at least post art that can be used as inspiration.

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>>50799819

and the map we were working with.

Aww man? There was so much interest last thread. I'll bump before bed and check in tomorrow. Good luck op.

Thread could be slow since it's so late in the America's rights now. Perhaps better luck later?

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Post images for Behemoths.

>>50799955
Is there an explanation for those odd...well, they're not rivers, but the canal-things in the southern continent?

>>50802474

Meteors and broken islands?

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So have we decided on that typical size? I remember someone said 25-50 but now that I draw it, I feel like anything above 25 is more like Titan range

>>50807975
I feel like 25 is a good point to aim for. Maybe have it range from 20-30, but it's a good average.

I think 401 works better for titans that will easily dwarf buildings.

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>>50802162

>>50808267
>>50807975

25-35 is probably a good range. A good metric should be that Giants could hold the average human in their hands like a barbie doll.

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In other news, to get the discussion flowing. We should talk on the nature of spirits.

In rituals, you can summon spirits to appear before you. THEN you have to successfully bind to spirit to you to perform a task.

What does it take to bind a spirit? A well thought out debate? A sacrifice? Two double bacon burgers with cheese and mayo?

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>>50799790

Wouldn't it make sense that giants actually rule? Like if there was a kingdom, wouldn't they appoint a giant a their figure head? They already represent the community.

>>50809842
Perhaps in some placez, but that might not be true everywhere. It isn't always they best thing to have your best warrior making all the diplomatic and infrastructure decisions. Doubly so if they need to go off and hunt a behemoth.

>>50809842
Your fetish is dumb

>>50811378

Actually if you look, that lady is normal sized. There are knights in the background.

You're dumb.

>>50811144

I'd imagine its more of a thing when a community has more than one giant in it.

>>50809562

Spirit binding requires a place of elemental power, a long ritual to summon the spirit. and then sufficent sacrfices to convince it to enter your service for a few favors.

Depending on the strength of the spirit. it could be a few juicy steaks flame kissed to perfection, to the heart of a behemoth.

>Not posting the second pastebin but posting the story
>Not even posting the first pastebin.
Good job, OP.

http://pastebin.com/mfbnCw2M

Note that this pastebin's topics section is slightly out of date since we discussed some of those topics immediately after, but more discussion doesn't hurt.

>>50816732

I didn't even see that pastebin in the last thread, Sorry.

>>50802474
My guess is that it was one of those "seemed cool at the time" things.

It still seems cool. I like river communities.

Speaking of, let's talk more about domains and shit. What sort of overlying cultures do these lands have? We've got a couple ideas in the pastebin, but I figure each main island could have 2-3 citystates on it, with the broken-up island having multiple small villages that report to lords, kinda like Arturian villages, but with fishermen.

>>50815550
YO THATS A TINY ASS HEAD

>>50817346

turns out she's not a giant at all, just really really ripped.

>>50817397
I'm not sure if that's a turn-on or a turn-off.

>>50815550
>>50817346
>>50817397

giants can have tiny heads if they want to.

>>50817240

For the southern collection of islands... imagine they're like a amalgamation of Polynesian and Chinese cultures. for no particular reason either.

>>50818582
So what, like rice and fishing villages that have feudal lords or something? I'm probably mixing up my cultural history here.

>>50819386
more or less

>>50817240
Yes but why does it make a pentagram

>>50821906

When i was drawing in the rivers and dividing up the landmasses i just started drawing squiggly lines. That happened.

THough if you can find a lore reason for it to be in a pentagram by all means. Contribute to the thread. Lord knows it needs it.

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Here's an example of a giant who had their growth spurt when they were "chosen" at age 14. Normally humans stop growing but at what age should giants growth rate start to decline? Is it even dependent on age? Village size/power? Depends on the setting?

>>50823772
I'd say it depends on the village more than it does on when they were chosen.

The age that the giant is chosen at would probably be affected by the previous giant's passing. If they were going to die of old age soon, then a baby could be chosen and partially raised and trained by the still-living giant. If a giant were to die suddenly, we need somebody NOW guess you're the best pick, and then a teenager or adult gets picked. Other cultures may choose giants in their teens or even adults of merit, but this shouldn't affect their size in any meaningful way. Might affect their outlook on being a giant, though.

>>50825094
Hmm I meant "chosen" more ambiguously, since it's not really a popularity contest for who "gets" the giant power. I was thinking more of how different cultures have different customs but one of their citizens is granted this power somehow (through some unknown process, whether it's prayer, gods, training, etc).

In terms of the older giant training the new one, would that work? Wouldn't that violate the 1 giant per community rule/guideline. Maybe he wanes in power when older and that allows the power to transfer to a new citizen. I think that could work for giants that die of old age, where a newborn will slowly gain that power (and be visibly clear that it has inherited that power by growth). For giants that die early in battle etc, and maybe for villages that have just meet the minimum requirements, the power would immediately transfer to an adolescent.

Yeah the age/time one received the power shouldn't change their max height, was wondering if that should be more of an innate thing or can adult giants keep growing based on community/strength

>>50825418
>Maybe he wanes in power when older and that allows the power to transfer to a new citizen.
That's what I was thinking, yeah. It makes the most sense and allows us to have giants that both became giants after first pursuing something else in life, and giants that were literally born into the job and have always had that as their job, which creates psychological diversity and allows different kinds of character.

I've got a bit on my plate, but I'm working on some drafts for nations and other elemental giants, as well as giant-specific magic. If somebody beats me to the punch, I won't be insulted or anything since I'm only an okay writer at best.

We've probably got enough content at this point that we can start talking mechanical systems, or we can make it a system-less setting and keep talking fluff as desired.

>>50825418
>>50826180
I don't think one giant per village was a hard and fast rule. Just a guideline.

>>50825094
Do giants age? I kinda figured since they had some divine magic in them or something they wouldn't.

Also can anyone contribute a kingdom? I've had an idea for a magical senate for a while but haven't used it anywhere

I remember someone mentioned "hunters" a while back, ordinary humans who fought against behemoths and dragons and the like. I can't imagine its a particularly desired dayjob - the mortality rate would be sky high. It seems like there would be two types of hunter: temporary posses that form to drive off a smallish behemoth or to help out their local giant (think farmers, militias, etc) or professional hunters. Because of the high mortality rate, these 'professionals' would probably only choose this career path if its that or starve. Seeing as they don't have any other options, they probably wouldn't be particularly weealthy or skilled, or have access to fantastic weapons, armor or magic (cuz if you can do magic why not get a job as a mage?).

Of course, its possible there's all kinds of literature romanticizing life as a hunter or portraying them as heroes, which is probably full of inaccuracies or tactics that would get "real" hunters killed.

>>50823772
I personally think that the growth should start very early. Five years old at the LATEST.

Would it be possible for someone (maybe a bbeg) to tap into the primal power of the world and attain gianthood?

>>50828556
>Confederacy of Oros
Covering most of the north-west continent, Oros is a major power in the world. Oros' government is an unusual ogliarchy. There are seven magical colleges that train mages in Oros. The first four (druids, clerics, sorcerers and wizards colleges) formed the confederacy of Oros several hundred years ago. They were joined by the college of Witches 80 years ago. Each of these five colleges trains mages. When they graduate, students become official mages. They are allowed to vote and hold political offices. There are also two other magical colleges in Oros, but these are not official members of the confederacy and so cannot vote.

>>50828556
What about a kingdom in the northwest whose giants are known for their smithing skills in places where lava is close to the surface. Their main trade commodity could be iron

>>50829514
Giants, while technically allowed to join the colleges, are rare graduates because it takes a decade of study on the campuses to before students are eligible for the final exam and few giants can afford to be away from their villages for so long. Non-mages are excluded from politics by law. It goes without saying that the senate of the Confederacy is horribly, horribly corrupt.

>>50829595
The five confederate colleges are:

>College of Sorcerers
Made up of the elite sons and daughters of ancient sorcerous bloodlines, the secretive college of sorcerers used to be a major power in politics. While it is the oldest college and has the most pedigree it has lost a lot of its status and now mainly functions as the "sidekick" of the college of Wizards. Rumour has it the source of the bloodlines is cross-breeding with dragons, which most sorcerers find incredibly offensive.

>College of Wizards
Made up of the children of the nouveau riche who emerged following Oros's dominance of trade, Wizards learn magic through magical rituals, "Rhythm and Repitition". While their magic is slower and not as spontaneous as others', it can be quite potent. It is VERY expensive to attend the college of Wizards, ensuring only the wealthiest can afford it, but this is the only barrier to entry. This means there are many second sons and daughters of other kingdom's in the college, and by extension, in Oros politics.

>College of Druids
The college of druids is the second smallest (larger only than the sorcerers) and poorest of college. Made up of magical prodigies from rural areas, especially small farming villages, this college specializes in communing with the spirits of nature. Members of this college do vote in the senate, but rarely hold office, as most are more interested in ensuring their home has a bountiful harvest than they are in playing politics in the capital. The college of druids has the strongest relationship with giants.

>College of Clerics
The second of the "Big Three" colleges, the college of clerics focuses on channeling the power of the 'divine' through rituals and prayer. Outwardly similar to the college of wizards, these mages usually come from convents or priesthoods. They have the strongest relationship with the Titan of Oros, Sassalia, the guardian of the capital of Oros.

cont. in next post.

>>50829854
>College of Witches
The youngest and largest college. The college of Witches was not a founding member of the Confederacy. The four original confederate colleges did not allow women to graduate. A few sorceresses founded this college a century ago and it quickly became as large as all the other colleges combined. Fearing a civil war, the other colleges reluctantly allowed the College of Witches to become a member. Although the other colleges have since changed their standards of entry to allow for female mages, the college of Witches remains the largest college. It has the lowest standards of entry, taking any who are gifted in magic and female. This means there is a plurality of political positions within this college, leading to much infighting and backstabbing. Nevertheless, it dominates the senate, and holds many political positions.

Non-confederate colleges:

>College of Warlocks
Founded by anarchists, the College of Warlocks was founded by mages who thought it was unfair that non-mages could not participate in the political process of Oros. They specialize in quickly training people with no magical aptitude to be powerful warlocks by making deals with the oldest and most abstract of Behemoths, who may predate the world. They are attempting to force the senate to accept them into the Confederacy the same way they were forced to accept the College of Witches. They have been repeatedly refused a spot in the Confederacy, citing their demonic heritage and stiff opposition from the College of Clerics. They are a source of much uncertainty and instability in Oros right now.

>College of Archmages
A deliberately non-confederate college, the College of Archmages is made up of graduates of other colleges who grew sick of the politicking of mages, resigned any position they had and gave up their vote in the parliament. Focusing exclusively on magical research and learning, the members of the College of Archmages are some of the strongest mages in the world.

>>50823772
They are immortal and never stop growing, but they grow very slowly

>>50830070
>Giants of Oros
Sassalia Oros - A fifty foot Titan, Sassalia is a mighty mage and the only being to be a member of all five confederate colleges (although three of those graduations were honorary). Though she possesses magical power possibly unmatched the world over, she is not much of a fighter. Few Behemoths make it near the capital city of Oros as to get there they would have to defeat countless lesser giants before reaching the Oros heartlands. Because of this, she spends more time playing poiltics, constructing great magical works or engaging in tremendous acts of sloth or hedonism.

Yuros the Arcane - One of the founders of the College of Archmages, Yuros is possibly the most learned being in all the world. As powerful as Sassalia despite being half her size, mages travel from all over the world to (sometimes literally) learn at his feet.

Cairn the Unstoppable - The OTHER Titan of Oros, Cairn's 'town' is the mighty fortress of Orosain which protects the Oros end of the great bridge. He has spent most of his life fighting against Behemoths of the land and sea, dragons, and giants and titans from Molackh Doul attempting to force their way into the heartlands of Oros. Grim and unsmiling, he is known far and wide as one of the world's greatest warriors.

>>50830228
>>50830070
>>50829854
>>50829514

Just keep in mind that very rarely can humans directly use magic on their own. Other than that, this is great!

In the archipelago to the east known as "The Shattered Heart" there is a multi-island civilization, Tethiti. They have a fanatical religion surrounding the sea and the beasts in it. The giant of this place is known as Ekem, Lord of Lightning. He has an innate control of magical electricity and is known to use it to augment his physical abilities, causing him to be faster and stronger as the need arises. He shares his domain with a lesser giant and together they protect the town's from the behemoths of the deep. They believe their may be something even bigger than a behemoth, perhaps even a Leviathan, hiding in the sea.

>>50830577
I think that was by biggest qualm reading it. A single city having 5 different mages colleges feels strange. Having one, or 3 if it's very important that there's a rivalry, feels more manageable.

>>50830577
Sweet, thanks for the feedback. The confederacy is basically the 1% running everything else crossed with the British empire, so it makes sense they'd be very, very, very few. And now: Geography!

Oros locations
>Oros Heartlands
Located on the southern end of the continent, the Oros heartlands contains the capital city of Oros, Sassalia's temple and countless miles of surrounding farmlands. It also contains the Colleges of Witches, Wizards, Sorcerers and Clerics.

>Forest of Behemoths
A brooding, nightmarish, overgrown place. North-east of the heartlands and west of the Rocky Hills, the Forest of Behemoths lies along the Valley River, with its main centre between the two Great Salt Lakes. Early in its history Oros made multiple attempts to carve its way through the forest in order to create highways to the Oros Reaches beyond. This resulted in a great many Behemoths - animals and trees - growing there, further damaging the environment. After generations of this awful cycle the forest has become a much-feared battleground of monsters. The Forest Guardians were formed in response to this danger and defend the Heartlands against any threat from this quarter.

>Valley River and the Great Salt Lakes
A river valley. Unusual in that water flows inwards from the sea to here, instead of the other way around. Not drinkable, but a great source of fish, as several species use it as breeding grounds. Beware overfishing, as it causes behemoths.

>Oros Hills
Centre of Oros mining. Giants here frequently fight subterranean behemoths forged from rock, offspring of the depleted hills. It would have been long ago abandoned, but there are always new seams of ore to find.

>>50830815
Its not really one city with three mage colleges, more like one country covering most of the continent with that many colleges.

Why do y'all always get the most shit done when I'm not online.

Oh well, at least it's easier to sort through when there's not a constant stream of new stuff to go through.

>>50830823
And now: the North-East

>Oros Reaches
Hilly grasslands that made perfect farmlands. Originally home to the nomadic Hill People. Their acquisition of the Reaches was how the Oros discovered humans did not spawn behemoths if they were... depopulated. Houses the college of druids, which is spread between several large farming towns.

>The Deadly Straits
A thin strip of water between the Oros Reaches and the Rocky Isles. Very dangerous, contains many reefs. A major impediment to Orosian imperial ambitions in the central isles.

>College of Archmages
Located atop the cliffs at the very north-east of the continent, as far from Oros ass they could possibly be. Due to the nature of the college, magical phenomena in the surrounding area are common.

>Kanan's folly
Ruins of what was to become the second Great Bridge, stretching between the north east of this continent, near the college of mages, and the Easttern continent. Repeated behemoth attacks and the unhelpfulness of the natives on the other side lead to repeated failures and the unfinished bridge being abandoned. Exists only as ruins now.

>>50830836
It IS a confederacy, after all.

>>50831025
North West post

>Forbidden Forest
A thick, overgrown forest. Deforestation is utterly forbidden under pain of death, in order to avoid a repeat of the Forest of Behemoths.

>Dragonspine Mountains
Many dragons here. Stay away.

>College of Warlocks
High in the north, close to the mouth of the Valley River. A black, towering fortress, although it is not known what the Warlocks would need to defend themselves from. Rumoured that their magic has warped the sky itself, creating vast shimmering curtains of light.

>Land of Ice and Twilight
A wasteland rumoured to exist beyond the northern sea. Most sensible Orosians dismiss it as hearsay.

>>50821906
If humans rely on ritual, why not it be the remains, or even still active, remnants of a huge ritual, related to the fall of the Dragons?

>>50831137
The Orosian South

>Southern coast
South-western coast of Oros. Main Orosian ship-building ports are located here. Shame there's no one to trade with.

>Orosain Fortress
A series of large fortresses that grew so large they joined and became one. Encircles the end of the Great Bridge. Home of many small giants and the Titan Cairn. Also the centre of Orosian military power.

>The Great Bridge
A series of mighty bridges built between the isles linking the north-western and southern continents. Originally built to allow the forces of Oros to march directly on Molackh Doul without the need to first defeat their mightier Navy. Has since become a frequent target for Molackh ships and a series of naval fortresses in their own right.

>Colonies of Oros
Three large islands in the south-west of the world. Colonized by Oros before they were discovered by Molackh Doul, whose empire spread southwards from their tropical heartlands. Islands themselves are fairly useless, with few resources or people living there. Rumours Oros use the islands as naval bases to launch expeditions into Molackh waters to deliberately overfish are denied at all levels of the Oros government.

>>50831295
Aaaaaand dump over. That's all I got for the Oros Empire. Do the continents have names BTW?

>>50831362

nope

>>50831362
Nope. Anyone want to take a swing at it?

>>50831417
Okay, I got nothing for those, other than the North-West one should NOT be called Oros as its already a city.

>>50831456
Why not?
There's a New York, New York

>>50831498
Yeah, but Oros is a Confederacy. The continent would have had a name long before it formed.

>>50831533
Also, a thought occurs: can giants get pregnant?

>>50832232
We decided that it was for the best if giants not affiliated with large cities couldn't get pregnant. We never decided if giants that ARE affiliated with large cities CAN get pregnant, but at the very least we determined that it wasn't okay and kinda defeated the purpose of choosing from the populace each generation.

>>50830132
That doesn't really work at all, it's not generational if they're immortal

>>50829024
I can understand that, it would definitely make logical sense - but I think this would be more appropriate when you KNOW the child will be the next giant, like in the above examples of a giant growing old and raising the next young child who inherited his power. For sudden deaths and new village giants I think the power could be bestowed upon them randomly.

This also varies by village, different rituals, beliefs etc and allows for some breathing room for different cultures and stories.

>>50829514
>>50829854
>>50829595
>>50830070
>>50830228
>>50830823
>>50830836
>>50831025
>>50831137
>>50831295
>>50831362
Holy shit, anon, this is great.

>>50834169
I think it'd work best for giants to have relatively long lifespans. They should easily live to 100 barring external factors, and if they do die of old age, it's the sort of thing that will have clear signs ahead of time so they can teach a successor.

That said though, fighting behemoths on even a yearly basis won't give giants the best survival rates. Even if they are long-lived, tragedy can still strike.

From there, the gift of gianthood gets passed to another in the village, though I feel that would still likely favor those who are very young, meaning there will certainly be a time when the village will be without a giant.

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Alright. Got a new pastebin ready with the shit discussed in this thread. We have a confederacy, so I might edit the map with that if we can hammer down exactly where it is. I don't think I specifically saw which island it was supposed to be on.

http://pastebin.com/3fJXDStd

Good shit as always, guys. It's a pleasure working with you. Let's see if we can make this happen.

>>50834175
Cheers Anon. I'm thinking that the two main socio-political powers in this world are the Confederacy of Oros, which has powerful mages and strong land armies but a poor navy (they never needed one, as their main struggle for most of history was dominating their own continent and defeating any behemoths that emerge) vs the Molackh Doul who have a powerful navy and colossus war machines, but have significantly less experience in land warfare.

I think the Molackh Doul sphere of influence would likely be the north of the southern continent, the central archipelago, the south of the north-eastern continent and the eastern Tethiti. They would likely control this area through their Navy and trade with colonies they establish in these places. While they would likely have explored the south of their continent I can't imagine too much expansion there, as there might not be much down there except for swamps and behemoths.

Contrast this with the Oros, whose sphere of influence has been bottled up in the North-West by the reefs of the Deadly Straits and the Molackh Doul.

I can't really imagine much of a civilisation emerging from the north-eastern continent, especially in the north. Hard living conditions and frequent dragon attacks means that apart from loose alliances like the Frostland Vanguard, or the southern Molackh colonies, there wouldn't be any really large nations or untied civilizations there. Have people suggested anything for the Molackh Doul? Cuz I was thinking, given they come from a dangerous land full of Behemoths, maybe the Magocracy was run by giants?

>>50834255
The Confederacy of Oros is on the North-Western continent. The Oros Heartlands are in the south of it, with Oros itself lying somewhere near the south-west coast. Check my dump about the locations if you wanna map it out.

>>50807975
Why are they all wearing diapers?

>>50834496
Do you not know what an artist's manikin is, anon?

>>50834448
Alright, cool. I'll mark it down and get to actually editing the map later.

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So have we considered the prospect of Half-giants? People born of giants who while never as large or powerful. Are none the less stronger and larger than normal humans.

I would propose that due to size these half giants are the product of relations between two giants. Since a giant is created by the magic of a community these beings would not have access to that magic. Only a capulated piece of it. Therefor they would be smaller and weaker but would not be magically bound to a community. Allowing for a party of half-giants to explore the worlds setting.

I would also propose these Half-giants be sterile otherwise what would stop them from out breeding or competing with there smaller kin and defeating the whole point of their existence?

>>50836561
Might be a decent solution to the questions of giant breeding we had upthread, though I'd say half giants should be only in the 7-8 foot range. They'd be really tall for a human, and have some strength to go with that, but they'd still be on par with most men, relatively speaking.

Wouldn't even require they be sterile, as they would still be rather rare. You could theoretically make a culture of amazons or whatever out of them. Either way, I'm not too excited by the prospecting of making them just for the sake of making human-scale adventures more varied in the setting. We've already established that human magic is fairly utility, and if half-giants can get giant magic, then that just brings up the same issues.

The setting isn't designed for human level adventures. Giants are PCs, and humans are NPCs. Half-giants might be chief among NPCs, but they're still at that level.

The big threats in the setting are things that only giants and armies have a hope of fighting. Barring political intrigue or taking on bandits, there isn't much for a small band of human mercenaries to do.

>>50836561
I think we've pretty well established by now that if you want to explore the setting on a wide scale without having lost your village first, this just isn't the setting for you.

Its concepts function much better on a narrow lens. You know the giants in your area, you meet periodically, but a lot of your exploration is done near your village so that you can defend it easily. On extremely rare occasions you might go to a larger town or city for some specific errand, but that's about it.

If you want to wander around, play a giant that's out of a home.

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>>50836561

As cute as it might be. i think that the idea of Half giants being a thing is something that should be excluded.

>>50807975
This is what I use: http://www.mrinitialman.com/OddsEnds/Sizes/sizes.html

How does your Giant like their pizza?

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Alright, after 10,000 years in MSPaint, the current map of the regions is free.

Orange is the Oros Confederacy, Blue is the Frostland Vanguard, Green is the Mageocracy of Molackh Doul, and Purple is the Shattered Heart.

We need more details on the Vanguard and Mageocracy. The anon that wrote the Oros Confederacy stuff put the info we've come up with on these to shame. The Shattered Heart is probably honestly fine as it is, since it's relatively small.

Also, might want to consider some great Dragon Nest of sorts. It could give players an endgame goal if they want to get proactive or if estranged PCs don't want to settle and make their own village.

>>50841708
That's a lot of territory for these organizations...I would reduce it by like... Half if you still want the world to be explored

>>50842068
The confederacy controls most of the northwest continent, but I imagine there's a lot of unexplored stuff between their cities.

Still, you're right. I'll tinker around with it a bit more and get back to you.

>>50841708

For the love of god, even if you insist on keeping the fucked up not-rivers, please, please fix the hanging triangle on the bottom left of the not-river network. It looks utterly ridiculous.

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>>50842707
Sorry, anon, I didn't originally draw the map. I just keep track of stuff and provide input and ideas.

Here's the original map that the original artist made and then made into the detailed map.

It is told in stories and rumors that the large inner sea used to be home to a vast continent with a thriving civilization. However, there one day arose a behemoth that was so massive and destructive that all living giants at the time had to band together and user horrid magic that should never again be attempted. After the spell was cast the behemoth was gone, but so too was the continent and those who refused to leave. Some scholars debate wether a behemoth of such size could exist or that it could truely be destroyed, some speculate it may be dormant in the place the giants tried to eliminate it.

>>50843684
Samefag

It is apparent that the humans who currently inhabbit the world mah all be descendants of those from the first civilization. No one truely knows what happened, yet.

>>50841708
Maybe molackh doul has a capitol on top of a giant turtle

>>50845171
I can see that going horribly

>>50841708
Orosfag here. If you want, I could post some ideas I had about the Magocracy and the Vagnuard I had. Also I was wondering exactly what kinds of sentient species live on this planet? I assumed just humans.

I ask cuz I had an idea - Kobold Kingdoms in the Frostland mountains. The oldest dragons saw humans receive great powers from the spirits, some of them becoming mighty champions. Seeking to exploit this, they created the Kobolds, a diminuative, quick-breeding race of lizard slaves.

The Kobolds were sentient, just. They do not produce great works of art or literature, impressive feats of engineering, or make profound scientific discovery. They have an intelligence level slightly higher than dogs. Their societies survive by robbing or copying humans. Some scholars postulate that this was deliberate on the part of the dragons - kobolds lack the imagination to rebel against their draconic masters.

Most kobolds live in abject misery, constantly living on the verge of starvation, the only food they can find is usually stolen from the Frostland Vanguard or hunted down by a pack. Dragons do not care for the suffering of kobolds, because the kobolds exist for only one reason - to generate giants. These giants, known as Bugbears, serve as the dragon's foot soldiers. They stand 25 feet tall each and wear arms and armour made from kobold slave labour or looted from dead enemies. Dragons designed kobolds to breed like rabbits, resulting in there being a great many of these lizard giants. When the dragons decide to wage war, they first send vast hordes of poorly-equipped kobolds swarming down from their mountain lairs to exhaust the Vanguard, before leading their Bugbears in as a second wave.

>>50842269
Oros covers most of the south and east of their continent,but I'd take them off the north-west forest and mountains, as they're unexplored.The only thing really up there is the college of Warlocks, and they keep to themselves. You could also knock them off the forest of Behemoths too - they tried to set up highways through there but it really didn't work so they stay out of those places.

That said, Oros does have control of those big three islands in a line down the south-west side of the map.

>>50809562
I would think there would be different ways to go about it depending on the spirit and the binder.
If you're on reasonably good te4ms it works like a business deal an offering of some sort in exchange for some power.
Less friendly exchanges would take the form of forcible bindings to coerce the spirit or desperate sacrifices to try and curry some favour.

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If someone were to kill a behemoth, wouldn't that feed a settlement for months on end?

>>50851649
In theory, yes, but all behemoths might not be absurdly huge themselves. Kinda like those two very small Colossi you fight in Shadow of the Colossus.

>>50854753
Speaking of Shadows of the Colossus, would that kind of monster theme suit our world?

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How overt is Giantish magic? Are we talking, can throw energy blasts if sufficently angry? or is it mearly a sphere of direct influence of things?

Do Giants have Stands?

>>50860396
I figured it might depend slightly on giant type, but generally it'd be more overt. A Fire Giant would be much more likely to be flinging fireballs around, for an obvious example, and a giant focusing much of their efforts on magic would be a more prime example of a war mage and be able to use it for a wider variety of things.

>>50857949
How many thousand animals had to die to make that outfit

Or does this setting also have giant deer the size of Baggers

>>50860928

behemoths my friend. Behemoths.

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>>50799790

The Universal Truths of The World

Upon these ancient truths all swear upon in their hearts

A Guardian's Body and Their Charge are one and the same. To harm one is the same as harming the other.

Thy Neighbor can be thy greatest ally, or thy greatest foe. It is well and good to treat them as if they were both.

Know the Beast and Ancient Foe as if they were yourself. Know their weaknesses and strengths as if you knew how many limbs you possessed.

Endure and in Enduring grow strong.

-Unknown scholar

>>50860396
>Do Giants have Stands?
No.

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Gotta keep the thread alive til post chrismas

>>50860396
Idea fo giantish magic:
As human magic is based on the binding and bartering of spiritual power and giants gain their strength from being part spirit they are their own magic.
What I mean by this is that normally all of a giants magic goes into innate things, their size, strength, durability, healing, etc. However through force of will they can effectively pull some of that power from their bodies and use it to shape the world in some way, e.g. hurling a fireball, sculpting stone like clay, splitting a wall with a shout etc.
The catch is that while these effects can be truly be awe inspiring and devastating it costs them power that would otherwise go into strengthening or sustaining themselves.
Any giant can use magic but only those who have learned how to 'set aside' a portion of their power ahead of time (which will make them physically weaker then they otherwise could be) avoid 'casting from hp'.
trying to suggest a reason for caster martial balance in the lore here [\spoiler]

>>50872255

That's fair. Having martial and a magical abilites for giants come from the same source seems like a decent balancing idea.

>>50872255
This is actually a good idea.

>>50872255
>>50875420
>>50876297
Seems like a good call to me. Also allows for more fine-tuning so each player can figure out just how much magic they want to be slinging.

>>50876303
What if it worked sorta like the level slider in TWEWY? The more of your strength you set aside, the stronger your magic gets and the more you can spam it, but otherwise you have to cast from your vitality.

So question about these spirits that keep getting mentioned as the basis for magic, namely what are they?
Classic nature spirits?
Outsiders?
Angels and or demons?
Elementals?
All of the above?

>>50878593
Probably all of the above and then some.

Angels and demons might need to be left out, though, unless we want to describe in detail the forces behind the curtain of the world beyond the perception of the people living in that world.

We don't.

>>50878593
>>50878637

"Anthropomorphic" representations of concepts, elements and legends

>>50814683
>>50815550
those make sense as female giants. they aren't supposed to be sexy or attractive, but to be big and strong and heavy

>>50823772
>chosen
np pls
If you want them to be born from human let them be giants from birth.
But it's better if they are an emanation of the genius loci of the village, born spontaneously when the time is right

>>50880154

If you read his later posts he means "chosen" more vaugly as in, "This kid is now the giant. nobody has any say in the matter"

>>50880182
I know that. Read the rest of the post, I talk specifically the age at which one is "chosen".
The thing that started this whole setting was the idea of each village having their own giant. The Giants are some sort of mythical figure that is tied to humans and humanity in some way. An expression of their unity, of their esire to protect maybe, a physical manifestation of the spirit of the community, this sort of thing.
Having them come from a past where they were normal village citizens redices their Force of Nature aspect and compromises the idea of protectors of the whole village. Because then they'll carry with them all the family ties, friendships, enmities, that they had as normal citizens. This is also why I don't like the idea of them being born to human parents. Even if they are raised by the whole village there would still be 2 people who have a special connection compared to the rest of the village, more, if we include possible siblings.

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>>50802162

Just read the OP and liking th eidea. So let me bump it while I read the thread.

>>50799955
a mountain land
a normal land
a canal land.

Canal land with palms makes me think of Egypt.

WHere those canals made by ancient giants for a ritual to fight a behemot? Were they made by a behemot so large when it passed th e lands split?

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>>50799790
Speaking more on the magic of little people:

How about they draw upon the magic of the giants themselves to augment them in battle with their prayers.
Giving their giant extra durability, strength and speed when needed.

They are also assigned a little helper to make them more effective in combat. It also keeps with the theme of needing to protect others because you and your partner are tied together and need each other to preform at the highest level.

>>50880266
You do realize that we have different cultures that "choose" at different times of life, right? You're flying too far in the face of stuff we've already established and moved on from.

>>50884324
In theory the powers of the giant would ALREADY be coming from the people, even if just in a roundabout way, so this seems redundant.

>>50884900
>In theory the powers of the giant would ALREADY be coming from the people, even if just in a roundabout way, so this seems redundant.

True but it wouldn't be focused, the helper could focus the magic to when and where the giant needed as well as maintain the bond between the giant and the people.

>>50885627
>as well as maintain the bond between the giant and the people.

Might be worth it for this as well, Giants who lose their helpers run the risk of corrupting their purpose and become evil or feed off the energy of others.

>>50885672
By the same token, helpers could be malicious in intent. They're only human, after all. The giant's predisposed towards protecting the people, but a helper could interfere.

>>50884324
>>50884900
>>50885627
>>50885686

I would say that you can have a "retinue" as equipment for missions that give you bonuses.

Als i think we should start with Crunching.

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>>50888968
Sure. It was brought up in the first thread that any system can reasonably be used to do a setting like this, but that was before we fleshed out a bunch of stuff. Is that still the general opinion, or should we work to create a new system to fit our needs more?

Remember that we need the following:
>A low focus on long-term exploration without disallowing it
>A flexible resource system that allows us to create a sliding scale between stats and resources.
>Low focus on magic that allows us to have Mages and Martials go hand in hand without one overpowering the other too easily.
>Character customization that cements the major inherent stuff very early but allows shifts over the long-term, as well as the improvement of personal skills.

Anima might fit decently, since it's also got good rules for wide ranges of size, but honestly I think we might be better off making our own system from scratch. The resource system and its relation to stats will probably be the hardest thing to mesh out in any non-custom system.

>>50889053
I still feel as though something like Mutants and Masterminds or a similar superhero pointbuy system fits our needs nicely. It has the ability to have raw strength/size, magic, and equipment all codified under the same system, and the ability to branch out into other areas.

>>50890225
Yes but by that logic we may as well use GURPS. It's TOO generic to fit the needs easily, at least, that's what I feel.

>>50888968
Could combine with the 'giants are part spirit' and 'magic comes from spirits' by letting you put whatever we're going call the energy giants are based around into your followers.

It's a pity the word mana is already taken because the Maori concept of mana fits the lore we're coming up with so well.
http://maoridictionary.co.nz/word/3424

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>>50889053

It's not a common core mechanics, but i think we might wanna give "Rivers and Lakes" a try.

Basically you have a dice pool, and you roll to try to find matching numbers. The facing number is the "Ones" postion, and the number of dice you can match is the "tens" postion.

For example. you have a dice pool of 5. you roll 7,7,7,2,2. The result can be either 37 (the three 7s in a group.) or 22 (the two 2s in the group.)

You compare this to a target number that you have to exceed for success.

And then you have a way to "Store" dice for later use. For instance, you roll a dice pool, and you get that same result as before. And you have the ability to store two dice based on your level (not final but you get the idea.) You decide to store the two 2s.

Later in the game you roll again and get 2,2,2,5,7. normally a result of 32. You now can use the dice you've stored to add to that result to get 52 (five twos.)

basically you bank on spending dice later for those big game changer rolls.


After that, you apply static modifiers, Such as equipment bonuses and circumstance bonuses.
>>50892387

perhaps a way of storing those rolls is meditating at a place of power, and depending on its power rating you can store an equal number of dice.

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>>50799790
>>50893652

Equipment and skills will give flat bonuses in multiples of 5. (+5,-5,+10,-10 Ect.)

Special equipment, such as enchanted weapons, or esoteric equipment, may increase or decrease your dice pool.

Perks more directly affect your dice pool in certain actions.

In addition all weapons and equipment will have qualities that lend themselves to be more effective or ineffective in certain situations. These will lead to bonuses or Maluses depending on the situation you find yourself. in.

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What are your thoughts on Humanoid Behemoths? or behemoths with human features?

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>>50895749

they could be like the super high level behemoths that are rare but extreamly dangerous.

>>50896243
Agree. "Able to talk" should be the most common "humanoid behemoth" trait so You can basically play Princess Mononoke.

>>50860396
>Do Giants have Stands?
No, Giants ARE their community's stand.

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>>50895158
>>50893652

Rivers and lakes originaly goes off a Standardized pool for all activites and abilites, the chactacters in that system are essentially "good at everything"


The way i see it, is that you have a base attribute and you use that as your dice pool for a check related to what that entails.

Strength, Will, Intellgence, Charisma ect.


"Gulliver wants to shove a massive boulder into a canyon to make a bridge. The GM states that it's pretty rooted to the ground, so he'll have to pass a 30 to succeed.

he has a strength of 4, making his dice pool 4. He participated in a Ritual of strength before setting out, increasing his dice pool by one, making it 5.
He rolls 4,4, 2,8,5 so his result can be 24, 12, 18, or 15. He happens to have two 4s stored from absorbing power from the fire shrine. he burns the power and makes the result 44.

With grunting effort, he shoves the mass of rock into the canyon and makes a bridge.

>>50830823
>>Forest of Behemoths
Yes we need actualt trees higher then giants. Otherwise it is no fun.

>>50895158
>>50893652
>>50896773
This is horrifyingly complex and non-simple dice mechanics need to stop. Anything beyond simple arithmetic is silly to demand of players at a table or online.

How many giants have meatl armor?

>>50899842
I would imagine very few given the difficulties that would be involved with getting and shaping all that material.

Probably only giants from very rich settlements and those from settlements specializing in mining and or smelting.

>>50897381

That's not comlplex at all.

>>50897381
>>50896773

As for combat, i think a wound system is the bet way to go about it. Rather than HP.

it doesnt need to be very complex. Maybe something along the lines of Savage Worlds.

>>50896773

So you have base attributes which give you a base dice pool, and the group of numbers you get from the roll equals your actual result.

Then after that you apply modifiers.

You use a intellect check to devise an irrigation system, and you have one rank in Farming or Engineering. This grants you a +5 to your check.

You roll 8,8,4,2 which gives you either 28, 14, or 12. you go with 28. then you apply your modifier which is 28+5.
Your final result is 33.

>>50901640
It seems complicated when compared to "Roll dice, add numbers, add modifiers". There's also a lot of cases where you'd have no overlapping numbers, depending on the size of your dice pool. In theory, and pool less than 11 dice could just give you a result maximum of 19.

>>50903959
That's generally when the ability to store dice results for later use comes in. In the parent system, you could store groups of dice you didn't use to bank them for later use.

Like if you rolled 4,4,3,3,2. You could store those 3s or those 4s in the bank to use later.


I get what you're saying though. Its just unfamiliar, but its not that complicated i don't think.

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this might have been answered before but can giants have children? Can they have children with normal humans?

>>50905123
I think the general answer we were leaning towards was no, though I think there might have been some cases where we were still deciding what would happen.

Even if it is possible, the resulting children are probably still normal humans. No cheap and easy way of making a giant army.

The only reason I'd argue in favor of it at all would be in the case of Behemoth Insect queens who could spew out swarms of drones, but that's an edge case.

>>50905173
I'd assume the insect queen is not having children with a normal human or even a particularly abnormal human in most cases.

>>50905475
No. Obviously they'd be having kids with insects of the same species if anything, but it's a matter of precedent.

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>>50904030
>>50903329
>>50896773
>>50895158
>>50893652


So how does combat work in this?

>>50904030
While I think a split-able dice pool is a good idea what's wrong with your basic X number and over is a successful roll and you need Y successes to succeed at your current task?

>>50906664

Realy its more of a personal preference of mine. I never much cared for the WoD/Shadowrun way of doing things.

With the rivers and lakes system, i dunno it seems a bit more... i dunno tactical?

Storing roll results for later use seems to fit more with the theme that preparation is important.


>>50906614
Gimme a minute i'll do a write up soon on something to at least start with.

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>>50906730
>>50906664

So i forgot to mention that storing those dice away isnt the only thing you can do with those extra dice sets. YOu can also use those dice to multitask.

For instance.

You want to check a guy for weapons, but you dont want him to know you checked him for weapons.

You roll 5,5,5,2,2 a result of 35 and 22. You can use the 35 as part of an Awareness check to see if the guy has weapons, and you can use the 22 as a stealth roll to avoid him noticing you checking for weapons.

you can also use those extra dice to do combat maneuvers in addition to normal attacks.

Going with the same result as the above, you can use the first result to attack your target and do damage, and then use the second result to shove the person off a cliff. all in one roll.

and other multi tasking things a player could come up with.

>>50906614

as for combat it works like this

1) Everyone rolls initiative, people can use extra dice sets to do minor actions to do reactive actions

2) first person on the initiative order selects a target and attacks anyone he can reach. and then rolls from his relevant combat pool.

3) After the roll the attacker applies Combat skills, Banked Dice sets, and other abilites to the roll. Then describes his action.

4)The defending target declares how they defend, (Block, Dodge, ect) and roll their relevent pool.

5) Defending target applies Combat skills, Banked Dice, and other ablites against every attack action and announces the results.

6) calculate successful hits and calculate any Critical wounds incurred if any.

7) Repeat 2-6 for everyone else in the initiative order.

8) recharge any per round abilities and then go back to step one. Repeat until combat is over.

>>50907112
Still seems unnecessarily complex to me.

>>50907296

We're still early in development. I personally like this system and think it'll work just fine.

I think i'm making it seem more complex than it actually is.

>>50907112
>>50907296
I think the exact dice system is important, but it should be tailored to function. Worries about complexity aren't as key. We want it to be as simple as possible, sure, but we do need a certain degree of depth for the setting itself.

Whatever this system is, it needs to be fairly granular in order to deal with just how many factors go into a fight. It needs to be able to handle giants, primarily, any sort of behemoths they face, the various sized armies of humans they go up against, any larger titans or mega-behemoths, as well as the variety of equipment and magical upgrades a giant can acquire to improve their raw power even further.

Those are the sorts of things our dice system needs to cover.

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>>50907369

Well a lot of the inspiration i've seen thus far has been from monster hunter.

Part of it is fighting the tough monster, the other part is chasing it down when it runs.

>>50907450
Which ties more into the health/wounds system, as we'll need something that does allow for giants to team up to hunt behemoths that may be more powerful for them individually. Of course, that also becomes tricky with preventing humans from doing the same to giants without large numbers.

>>50907112
Alright. I'm provisionally sold on the die system. It allows for the same flexibility of a d100 system while also utilizing the simplicity of dice pool systems. I'd like to see it in action, but for the time being it seems good enough.

So, for player creation, I'm thinking of a somewhat CYOA-styled chargen system. For combat and spells, utilizing a card-based ability system.

Chargen would look like
>Pick one MAJOR Trait that defines your giant's primary typing
>Pick a cluster of 3-5 minor traits that define your giant's secondary features and helps define your village. Drawbacks included to amp up the stakes as well as giving you more stuff to work with.
>Stats are primarily granted by traits, but also improved via a point-distribution system.
>MP-like resource can be re-allocated during rest periods to increase stats, or vice-versa. Effectively you'll build your stats out of your MP if you're martial or drop stats for MP if you're magic-based. MP pool improves based on village size and other qualities.

Finer mechanics
>Magic system is entirely scaling off of MP used for spells. Most spells scale based on MP usage.
>Physical attacks scale off of your various stats.
>Unsure of how many stats precisely should exist. Contemplating a 4-stat system of STR/AGI/PER/VIT, but other statblocks can help as well.
>AVOID an intelligence stat. Make skills a measure of the character's knowledge.

Other notes:
>Not sure how to handle an EXP system, or any level system for that matter. Obviously skills need to be improved, but too many systems with RP-based mechanical improvements are trash. There needs to be a mechanical mandate for improvement of skills.
>HP/Wound Pool is a toughie.
>Maybe some stuff to help the giant entice people to join/visit their village? Charisma/Appearance stat?
>Avoid titan statblocks for now. Don't let Players make them at the table.

r8 & h8

>>50907488

put in a clause for "pittiful opponents", foes that take only a minor action to defeat or only take a single wound before falling. but in the same time, allow rules for "Swarms" which individual "Pitiful opponents" form a mass of foes that counts as a larger creature.

>>50907609
I think the idea was to not have a true level system, and have equipment be the deciding factor of raw power level. Like, Stats are capped at a certain amount, and the only way to go above them is special gear. Gear also being useful for shoring up weaker stats.

MP might actually be the best thing to use for a general XP total, though it may need to be broadened and allowed to apply to skills. Either way, investing it in more stats or abilities, or saving it in reserve for spellcasting, seems like a good fit.

Alternatively, gaining skills could be done using a downtime system. Perhaps have some general guidelines for ways giants can spend their free time between behemoth fights, or just make the assumption that they can either gain a new skill or improve an existing one.

I believe wounds are a better fit than raw HP, at least on the giant vs behemoth scale. It allows for debilitating effects that can wear down a behemoth and make it more feasible for giants to take them out. This doesn't work as well for facing humans though.

I think Titans should be considered in the same vein as behemoths for now. Non-playable, but potentially large single enemies the party may face.

>>50907680
>MP might actually be the best thing to use for a general XP total, though it may need to be broadened and allowed to apply to skills. Either way, investing it in more stats or abilities, or saving it in reserve for spellcasting, seems like a good fit.
The important key here is that you can pick and choose between fights. That way, you can decide whether you think Magic, Physical, or a Mixture of the two will better suit you. Obviously most of the time you'd probably have a "default" build that you'd want, but the ability to switch with little resistance is, I feel, a core aspect of making players feel like they ARE magic.

>>50907680
>>50907731

The way i think it could work is that Mana is like a point buy system for special abilities. Like a Ritual of Strength takes up so many Mana points to increase your Might pool by one this particular hunt, reducing your maximum Mana. Then left over mana is then used for in combat abilites like "The Shadowless Move" where you move faster than your shadow can keep up, or flinging fireballs.

You you can reduce your maximum Mana pool for passive benefits, or you can save your mana for active abilities.

>>50907766
You're overcomplicating it. Just convert Max MP to stats and back again while resting. Use the MP reserve you have to cast spells and use supernatural techniques.

Simple shit. You can fluff it as a ritual if you want, but ultimately it should be simple to go "Okay so I have 20 MP so I'll drop that to 5 MP to get a total of +15 to my stats."

>>50907819

Well yeah, i am being fluffy with my discriptions, but simply improving your stats wasn't the only passive benefit you could come up with.

It might not be something available right out of the gate, but instead of putting it towards stats, but maybe a passive ability to ignore one wound (you ignore the penalties not the damage) of your choice until you sleep next.

but swapping around physical stats would be the primary use for it.

>>50907766
>>50907819
>>50907902
I think the general idea works. It doesn't need too much fluff to the details, but it is basically a matter of putting 20 MP to strength and saving 20 for casting speak with birds or whatever.

I do feel like swapping should be something that requires time to do, such as with sleep. I feel that otherwise it may punish players who are trying to stick to a concept. Having it be something that can be altered over the long term allows for shifts in character, but it shouldn't be as easy on the fly, I feel.

Including passive or physical abilities in that may also be a good call. Being able to shrug off certain conditions or penalties, or getting extra benefits that are always active would be an alternative to simply maxing out stats.

>>50907956

You could even say it takes a full day of mediation, within a giant's community to "Respec". So you cant necessarily do it mid-mission.

>>50907956
I would add a 'cast from health' type mechanic to say take a wound to gain a mp boost

>>50908544
Eh, I feel like that'll just encourage people to sink a lot of MP into whatever stat governs wounds or toughness and then just draw off portions as needed to put wherever they want.

>>50908561
>>50908544

i would say that mechanic would be part of a Magic item. Like a ritual sacrifice knife that only has one use.

>>50907609

Behemoths get a standard pool, with a grab bag of abilities. Maybe Behemoths get something like Double their standard pool in wounds and equal to their standard pool in abilities.

The difficulty of the behemoth relates to the size of their Standard pool and then subsequently what abilities they get.

Does eating a behemot gives you mutations?
As in your absorb its powers a little?

This can be in place of EXP.

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>>50910619

Eating a Behemoth will just make you fat. THat's not to say there wont be benefits however. Maybe there are a few rituals that involve eating behemoth flesh in order to permanently increase your innate powers.

>>50908723

So making behemoths should be like a simple equation with mix and match abilities for either custom or randomized experience.

>>50911222
Sounds good to me.

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post places that'd make interesting Giant settlements.

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>>50915112

>>50915112
Looks a little cramped for a giant.

so how aberrant could a giant get, in terms of physical shape and biology? What's the upper level?

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>>50915470

humanoid elemental creature.

>>50915470
I could imagine the absolutely most monstrous being almost indistinguishable from behemoths; just more humanoid then most.

The most beastly giants and the most human behemoths would be disturbingly alike.

Space giants: what are they like?

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>>50917584

>>50917584
Imagine an ayy
Now make it big

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>>50915470

>>50915470
I'm thinking the most monsterous they get is probably akin to the merpeople from Goblet of Fire: clearly not all human, but human enough that it's obvious they're supposed to be taking notes.

>>50917662
Head would be too big, things would start to orbit it.

>>50831533
What if the name got "overwritten" by Oros, so to speak? I don't have an idea of what it was named before, but it would definitely be in the recorded history. But through a mix of executive meddling, like the highest authorities voting to rename the continent to Oros, and the commoners of the world using the Oros country's name to describe the continent (because Oros is by far the most significant political, trading, cultural, and military power on the continent), so why refer to it by the original name anyway? So first it just became common to colloquially call the continent Oros, and then it became an official name change withon Oros itself, because why wouldn't you want an entire continent named after your country?

>>50846476
How about a capitol on the back of giant DEAD turtle?
It's been long dead and most has sunk into the ground but there's still a large cavernous complex below the city in the shell.

>>50920026

Now that sounds fantastic.

>>50920026
And now I want to play Morrowind again.

First time in these threads.

What about one in a hundred mutants that are human sized but are born with the power of a giant?

>>50921764
Kinda goes against the idea. Giants are already 1 in 100, since they're bound to their community. A human sized being with the powers of a giant (assuming you don't mean the strength that comes with being massive) would essentially be an outstanding mage, far surpassing others.

That's already a direction we don't really want to go down. Humans generally rely on giants to protect them, with exceptions typically being rare and requiring large coordinated efforts of armies or groups of similar size. For example, their is a nation that is using magic to keep behemoths under their control, but it still requires quite a few of them and a large number of support staff to keep one controlled and fed. The benefit there is more that they don't have to worry about their 'giant' having any pesky 'opinions'.

Having random humans born that are essentially giants except tiny is kind of odd, and doesn't add much.

>>50921848
Well where I'm coming from is that the scale kinda becomes lost from a PC sense if all the PCs are big as fuck. Give the party a tiny character and the big players feel big. Give a party of humans a big character and they'll both feel small and large. Either way that sense of scale will fully be illustrated.

What I'm saying is there should be an opportunity for the setting to have exceptional humans. PCs are by their very nature exceptional, and giants are inherently exceptional. Players should have the ability to play as exceptional humans hitting above their weight class or otherwise able to assist a giant party.

>>50922291
>Alright guys, here's a setting and system entirely based around the idea of playing as Dragons
>But why not let people play humans instead of dragons?

Exceptional humans in the setting can exist, but they're still going to be exceptional on the human level. You need an army to take out a giant, and that's by design.

You don't need to shoehorn an attempt at balance into this. Humans aren't intended to be balanced with giants. If the game was about shepherds guarding sheep, would you be insisting that 1 in a dozen sheep be capable of walking, talking, and doing the job of a shepherd by fighting off wolves?

>>50922291
>There should be an opportunity for the setting to have exceptional humans.
If that's what you're after, the setting isn't for you. That's really all there is to it.

This is not a setting where humans do the big shit and are overly exceptional.

>>50907609

So you get like 4 main stats, Might, Agility, Willpower, and Vitality. Each of these governs different skills.

You start with 20 mana, and you can convert 5 mana into one point of any attribute.

Alright boys! I need skills! Skills to handle any sort of task a giant might encounter!

>>50925312
Hunting Practices. Tells you how your village is doing in the hunting department, and also lets you get a heads up on if your village is overhunting and/or if they've invoked a potential behemoth.
Eco Sense. Tells you when you have natural intruders, migration/hibernation patterns, and other stuff that influences what animals are where and when.
Trading. Tells you where the goods are coming and going, and what the likely points of interception are for creatures.
Terrain. Gives you insight to the local terrain, which includes places to hide, places to force an advantage, and places to avoid in order to keep the opponent from getting an advantage.
Publicity. Improves your ability to "look the part" and encourage people to visit, trade with, and/or join your village. Nobody wants to work with or in a village that is run by a weak-looking giant, right?

>>50799790
I dont think lagi are meant to grow that big the fuck have they been putting in the water.

>>50832232
IMHO they all can, but they all give burth to normal humans that then have a non 0 possibility to become giants themselves.

>>50926170
You missed the entire point of us saying "no pregnant giants" to begin with.

Pregnant giants can't defend the village as well, which means they are effectively useless during the pregnancy. It's irrelevant exactly what is born because it results in the same thing happening.

>well the magic could speed up their pregnancy or something!
Then what's even the point of talking about it to begin with?

>>50925312
Awareness, stealth, crafting, influence (roll all the persuasion skills into one.)

>>50926210
Getting a human sized pregnancy inside a giant sized person would have very little physical effects. Hell they won't even show at all

>>50802474
Big ass behemoth carved up the local geography?

How fresh is the water in those rivers? Since they're pretty big it's gotta be really brackish in some spots.

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>>50828878
I imagine Human hunters often work with, or under giants. Mostly as scouts, couriers and the occasional tracker. Warn the populace, set up siege weaponry, set traps.
Few humans are mad enough to actually join in on the fun when there's an actual fight between a Giant and Behemoth though.

But some mad bastards will at least try.

>>50926419

I can see treating a human retinue as an equipment item

>>50926294
Honestly though, how often is this actually going to come up?

>>50926657
Know 4chan, A whole lot

>>50926352
Im inclined to believe that those canals are artificial., but no one knows just who made them. Scattered ruins around those islands suggest that some big civilization lived there but exist no longer.

>>50925312

Craft
Essence Sense
Health Care
Underwater Basket Weaving.

>>50925312
Wrestling: the power to handle objects. Throwing boulders and restraining behemoths are booths uses of it.

>>50930006

would that be a skill? or just an Ability check?

>>50925008
I don't remember this in Muramasa, source?

So I think we've settled on the rivers/canals of the southern continent being artificial, but to keep it interesting, nobody knows what created them in-setting. The most popular theories are a giant magic ritual, or an outstandingly massive Behemoth, long long ago. I think not deciding on a single answer allows for GMs to decide whatever they like best if it comes up in their campaigns.

>>50926657
In play? Not as much. In setting questions, it's good to have an answer. Otherwise you'll get people asking why they can't just breed giants for a giant army. You at least need to clarify that giants don't breed more giants, whether by saying they can't get pregnant or saying it's just humans.

>>50926419
Yeah. Serving as trackers and scouts are some of the better talents humans can have. A human adventuring party would probably be able to, at the very least, delay a behemoth for an extended period.

Outright killing it is another matter, but say there's two behemoths in an area: the giant can fight one while the hunters distract the other from attacking the village.

Okay, okay so super powered humans was dumb...but I like the idea of Alien Dragons. How far can we go with that?

Are dragons clearly defined entities with crisp, definitive features that one can identify as Draconic like in DnD or Pathfinder?

Or can we go more Medieval and just utilize the term Dragon for all sorts of scary spoopy things outside the natural order?

Or perhaps a middle ground where it's very clearly a dragon, but Our Dragons are Different, with more alien features to highlight their status as eldritch horrors?

And while mixed parties may be stupid and incongruous to the setting, I'd like to explore the possibilities of Extraordinary Humans, so there can be all human parties in the setting like there are the occasional all farie parties in stuff like DnD

>>50931837
>How far can we go with defining one of the key points of the system that we agreed shouldn't be defined for the sake of mysticism?
Not. Don't define the dragons. At all. Maybe give them very loose motivations and let GMs write the rest to fit their own narratives.

>I'd like to explore the possibilities of Extraordinary Humans in a setting where the entire point is to not have humans capable of upstaging or fighting on par with the OTHER keystone of the system, the giants.
I feel like you're tragically missing the point here.

>>50931837
I believe that there might need to be some universal symbol that something is a true dragon, if only because Behemoths would likely get very weird and varied. If we're having dragons be really dangerous for comparison, it needs to be clear when something is one.

Perhaps it could work to have dragons be made of crystal, metal, or other more synthetic materials to have them be more 'artificial' visually. Not sure exactly.

The possibilities of extraordinary humans are fine, but it's basically the idea of playing an all NPC class game, or playing as mortals in exalted.

The best I could see with it would be giving them a few points in various skills and using a very basic form of the combat system. Humans can contribute, even on an individual basis, but at that point you may be better off just lifting the setting, having giant monsters and giants be plot devices that the party can't hope to fight, and have them instead doing other tasks like investigating, taking care of diplomatic relations, hunting, etc.