Modern Thread

When are they bringing back counterspell?

>>50797353
When you get off your butt and do it.

>>50797353
Same set as bolt, path, top, jtms, rit, et cetera. It will be so much fucking fun.

>Playing a Boros Heroic deck and it's winning a lot more than i thought it would. It dies to removal but is super explosive, so if a creature can live until the turn after I cast it I can usually win.

>Hating Inquisition of Kozilek and every card like it.

>Not really

>No

Why isn't heroic played a little more? I understand it's similar to boggles/infect in play-style but I've played both decks multiple times and haven't lost either.

>>50797353
The old school 2 mana counterspell? I hope soon!

>>50797339
>Playing
Dredge and Naya Burn, working on building either Bant spirits or Grixis delver
>hating
Nothing really
>bans/unbans
Nothing banned, Sfm and twin unbanned
>magic related christmas
No

>>50798534
No, the other card named counterspell

>playing
RU Obliterate control. Pretty good times.
>hating
Modern is great right now.

>>50797339
You know, I've never stopped to appreciate the beautiful simplicity of LoTV. Looking at the clusterfuck of barely functional text most planeswalkers tend to contain, her text is nice and straightforward, yet still very strong.

>>50798613
I am pretty tired of Planeswalkers desu. They all feel the same to me, and aren't very powerful (aside for two).

>>50797339
>What are you playing?
Jund. I ill probably never stop playing it
>What you hating?
Tron
>Hoping for any cards to be unbanned/banned?
Some unbans would be nice. JtMS would spice things up, and I'd like to see BBE come off.
>Hope to get anything magic related for Christmas?
Nah

>>50798976
Yeah Jund is the pits against Tron. I'll be honest I haven't had the most success running Jund. Do you have any tips for playing better? I feel like the current meta is just way too fast.

I wish I had more money so I could play actual decks and not just eldrazi taxes. Fuck this gay company and their jew pricing. Just print the cards people want to play, is it really that hard.

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>>50798550
??

>>50799061
Most people in my meta moved away from Burn and I haven't seen afinity in a long time. So, I guess that's why I have more success.
When I do play against those decks, I look for hands with more removal than creatures. With decks that do nothing but play shit loads of creatures, take Lili out.

>>50799203
I guess I just need to get good

>>50799186
No, the other other card called counterspell

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>>50799850
??

>>50799919
Nope not that one either

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>>50799928
??

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>>50797339
>What are you playing?
Lantern Control almost exclusively

>What you hating?
Tron, forever and always. I would play against all the Jund, Junk, and Grixis Control in the world if I didn't have to see another "Urza's" land.

>Hoping for any cards to be unbanned/banned?
No?

>Hope to get anything magic related for Christmas?
I bought myself a guru Swamp Terese Nielsen playmat. I really really like it. I don't expect anything else.

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>>50799946
Maybe he means this one

>>50801301
There needs to be a new unset.
I demand 'Count or Spell'; arithmatic and proper spelling are crutial skills we need to teach the children!

>>50800416
what lantern control deck u running?

guys i have a question.

lets say im running a brain in a jar deck. my opponent declares the end of his turn. at the end of his turn i tap the brain for 4 and cast a languish to deal -4/-4 to all creatures. can he play a sorcery? can he play an instant since he ended his turn?

>>50802125

>sorcery
No, it's not a main phase.

>instant
Yes, everybody gets priority before anything resolves.

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Where does think twice go? Is this card just actual shit?

>>50802229
>Where does think twice go?
In Esper or Jeskai draw-go control.

I mean, where else do you put instant speed card advantage?

>>50802229
Hard control decks as a 0-4 of, I like 2 but it's kinda shit at the moment. Card advantage is good but control has a hard time dealing with how fast the tempo of the game is currently, and also with having the right answer for the matchup (card quality). There's so many different angles you need to cover that card advantage is the least of your worries.

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I refuse to believe this doesn't spawn a new type of deck. Why put it in a control deck when I'm sure there must be a kind of deck that makes this completly unfair?

>>50803082
>I refuse to believe this doesn't spawn a new type of deck.
Whatever new deck you make around it will either be worse than Jund, or become Jund as you tune it.

>>50803082
>ancestral vision
>beck/call
It seems brew-worthy

>>50797339
Modern is completely dead at my LGS, it used to bring in 30+ people to FNM and 90+ people to big tournaments and GPTs/RPTQs. Now we're lucky if we have 4 people for FNM.
It wasn't even replaced by Standard or Frontier, it was replaced by Duel Commander because people are tired of MaRo's funny zoo where only creatures are worth shit and want to play Force of Will, Balance and Necropotence.

Will Modern ever be relevant again now that it's not a PT format, or are we truly the beaten wife of casual formats?

>>50803227
Well, modern took a big hit from the fact WOTC doesn't really think it's a " highlightable " format anymore, just like legacy (tell me if I'm wrong because I quit MTG for a bit when Eldrazi completly fucked modern and legacy over). When WOTC decided that only Limited and standard were worthy of their official tournies that's when a lot of players quit modern. It's the same thing that happened in Legacy when most organizations supporting legacy decided to get the fuck out: lot of players quit Legacy as a result.

And overall, MTG is in a down phase right now. Every now and then you have a high surge of players and sometimes you have an abnormal low amount of players. It's always been like that.

So yeah I wouldn't worry about it. I'm sure more people will (re)pick modern as time goes.

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>>50803227
>>50803227
I have a theory as to explain, in part, why numbers are so low. This is also the easiest aspect of the problem to fix.

Do ANY of these cards interest you as a Modern player?
Hell I even dabble in Standard and these promos are awful. Rise from the tides made my mono-blue brain dick twitch a tiny bit, but the regular art is just as good and the card doesn't quite have the swag factor that other promos have.

I love how the only decent cards here are ANOTHER printing of sylvan scrying for tronfags to choose from (does anybody even run it in standard?), and the kitchen table Goblin Lord (the only promo I was pining for)

>>50803082
Why not Restore Balance? Outpost version that clears your opponent's board, followed up by Wrath and Mindtwist must be ultra broken, right?

>>50803341
And the solid followup of Noose Constrictor. I mean, it's a unique card, but it's a total fucking flop at the moment and a shitty promo. Maybe if someone does a breakthrough green discard engine combo or someshit, it will be validated, but currently it's a terrible, terrible choice. How fucking hard is it to choose a good promo? Certainly not as difficult as picking L I T E R A L L Y the shittiest possible promo I can imagine.

>>50802229
esper draw go, but esper draw go isn't an actual deck so nowhere

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>>50803341
>Call the Bloodline
>Nissa's Pilgrimage
>Spatial Contortion
>Rise from the Tides
>Goblin Warchief
Someone saw this list and said "yeah, this is fine."

>>50803341
>>50803394
So your explanation of why Modern has low attendance is because of the new set promos?

Hey you should send me an email the next time you come up with an explanation that came out of your ass.

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>>50803461
No there's dozens of factors. plain ignorant to say it's a singular cause.

Of all the different elements factoring in though, better promos are by far the simplest solution to implement.

Is WotC going to make winter less cold and shitty? No, but maybe they can make their fanservice less cold and shitty, in the form of incentivizing fnm more. make the turnout better, which would probably further make the turnout better over time, as having a bustling lgs encourages people to go compete instead of failing to fire up modern due to a lack of participants and being let down.

>>50803521
I'm going to put it simple for you: Wotc doesn't give a shit about modern anymore. Wotc doesn't give a shit about legacy anymore. Wotc doesn't give a shit about vintage anymore. Wotc doesn't give a shit about pauper, never did and will never do.

The only thing WOTC cares about is Standard and limited, so it all comes down if the newest set is cool or not. Guess what: Kaladesh was terribly awful for most of players thematically wise and that turned off players that played other things than standard.

That's why there aren't any players in other formats and why there is a down time, because Wotc tries so damn hard on making sure standard is THE only competitive format that they will completly fail if their new set is shitty.

Nobody cares even if the promo you could win would be Lightning Bolt, Remand or even Daze for legacy. Doesn't change a thing about why players quit the game and formats in the first place.

>>50803461not that anon, and its not the only reason, but promos are a huge draw for fnm. Remember when when path and visions were the promos?

>>50803571
If people wanted to play modern in FNM they'd move their asses to FNMs even if there was no prize at the end. That's the whole point of the game: playing the game.

Now don't get me wrong I love playing for prizes or in tournaments for trying to get money or getting top8 or whatever, but if people seriously need high value prizes everytime they go out and play with other people then for me they weren't that interested in the format in the first place.

I bet your ass that if people had to choose between formats based on how cool they are, most people would fuck off standard and would either play Commander or Legacy/Modern.

>>50803341
>>50803394
>>50803461
It does make a certain ammount of sense.
We're not a competitive format anymore. The format was castrated when we lost the Modern PT. But Modern is not a fun casual format. People will pay and drive to attend Duel Commander FNM because they want to play the format. But people would rather not deal with the sideboard russian roulette mini-game unless there's something on the line. And Call the Bloodline certainly isn't worth the stress.

Modern is stressful. Legacy isn't, most of the power is in your hands and losing is your fault. Standard isn't, it's too dumbed down to require higher brainpower.
But Modern really is, you can lose a tournament before it even starts by packing the wrong sideboard, and once it hits the table and it's game two it pretty much devolves into a race to hate, all because they refuse to allow us real control cards. It's the only format where you can go 0-4 despite your best effort just because of RNG even if you're a bye farming Pro.

Fucking SaffronOlive beats optimal tier 1s with jank all the time by exploiting unconventional win conditions and he's a really shit player who never plays optimally.

>>50803628
Was making some eggs>>50803567

I'm completely aware of all that you said.
FNM for me at least means both myself and a buddy booking off work to attend, or during time off. The incentive is playing the game I love and the main detractor is work.
I check the FNM promos when they reveal them, and it doesn't so much as tug me towards attending FNM any more than beers and kitchen table magic. When I have the day off I'll go, but I'm never stoked or excited to go for the chance to win a promo anymore, only to play the game as usual.

Nobody expects support for Modern, but even Timmy knows that the Serum Visions promo he receives is exciting as he can trade it in for cards he wants. The prize holds value.

As it stands, the prizes they showcase are crackerjack-tier. Personally, I love me some caramel corn regardless, but a real prize would make a lot of people happier.

The duds they are foiling out boggle my mind as to how *anybody* could find it appealing, save for a Tron player who wants some shiny sylvans/contortions or an Amulet player who wants some shiny vestiges. Less than a dollar value in your FNM promo is a sign that almost nobody finds them sweet. WotC can't even be bothered to select standard cards that see standard play, it's quite pathetic.

>>50803822
So what do we play then? Legacy and vintage are too expensive, duel commander is too small, standard is trash. Modern might suck but it's the best we've got.

>>50803990
It might sound crazy to you but I play modern because despite it being an eternal format it constantly changes. When you've played enough legacy you realize that the same decks are always dominating except if something really fucked up happens in standard to spawn a new deck that has the potential to decimate everything back in Legacy ( like Eldrazi ).

In modern the power level needed to be viable for standard cards is less high, thus you tend to see more decks and more rogue lists. That's why I enjoy the format, not because " Legacy is broken " or " legacy is too expensive ".

But yeah it sucks that a lot of players used modern as a cheap gateway to competitive and fun magic, and now it's all gone because WOTC decided this format wasn't good for competitive play because some jackasses in the pro benches were crying their decks couldn't beat everything, unlike delver or BUG in legacy.

>>50803082
What about 8rack? Put down Liliana and wipe the board

All this talk of 'modern is dying' seems very based on anecdotal evidence. It's still doing fine at my LGS. Also, standard is slowly crawling back from death with Saturdays specifically for that format. Draft is huge, as always. Literally no one is cancerous enough to play duel commander.

>>50804282
Not sure it's dying so much as the meta is stale right now. I got in around SOI and found modern had a much smaller selection of shit to build into. Locks and control are still fairly popular and the odd rogue might do well on a 3-1/2-2/1-3 day, but unless you're playing Bridge Lock, Dredge, or Thing Control you're going to lose pretty hard.

So, I am on a 50 buck budget to build babby's first format deck (had a shitty Séance and an even shittier Kavu deck some 6 years ago). I've managed to build a nice BW Aristocrats list that does not seem like utter shit (and at least you can upgrade to Abzan r-right guys?), but even though it's a fun deck with some cool decisions, it's not my favorite archetype (that'd be Tempo shit like Delver). On such a constrained budget, is there a better Modern list I can build, maybe even down the Tempo line, or do I really need those Snapcasters to be competitive at all?

Can post the Aristocrat list if you want to.

>>50804561
You can always build Zombie Infestation.

But more seriously with 50 bucks it's nearly impossible to get anything done. Even Ad Nauseam, one of the cheapest competitive decks in the format is around 300 bucks so yeah, I'd save the money and wait for more to build something you REALLY want to build.

In modern you REALLY don't want to build something because it's cheap. Trust me, I've done the mistake. Bought in Scapeshift because it was cheap but it's not my preferred playstyle so I burnt out of it.

>>50804561
You could build naya burn it only costs like 80 buck except the lands . Tron isn't too expensive, if you get all is dust instead of O-stone

But like the other anon said. 50 bucks is way to low to play modern. Hell, it's not even enough to play standard anymore.

>playing
Breach Titan
>hating
Hatebears. Leonin Arbiter really fucks with my gameplan
>Banned/Unbanned
As long as they don't ban SSG we good
Nothing mtg related for Christmas

I'm gonna feel really silly if Breach gets reprinted in modern masters, but eh. Feels good to be playing a good deck now instead of waiting around for a possible reprint

>choose midrange deck that is good against linear aggressive decks
>it scoops to tron and combo
>choose linear aggressive deck that is good against tron and combo
>it loses to midrange on paper but not really
>chose tron or combo which are good against midrange
>it scoops to linear aggressive decks
>control isn't even an archetype
>either play an aggressive linear deck or accept that you've got to scoop upon seeing certain decks
epic format
i like it

>>50804850
What's the problem? Isn't it the aim of a format to win against certain decks and lose to some? Isn't it what makes a metagame interesting, instead of contenders that shit on every other decks that try another angle of attack?

>>50804911
The problem is that it's 0 fun to have MU's you simply cannot win and have to give up. And that's the the case for all decks in modern except for the linear aggro ones.

>>50804561
Go for 1 drop zoo.

>>50804911
There's a big difference between an uphill battle and a battle that (barring spectacularly bad luck on your opponents part) you are guaranteed to lose.

Does anyone know some sick technology for Dredge? It doesn't have to be optimal. I'm missing a few cards so I have flexibility.

I use rainbow lands so I have access to all 5 colours.
Currently trying to run an Unburial Rites package with a couple Simian Spirit Guides for cheese.

>>50805153
Try AV for that sweet Dredge 18.You could also thoughtseize yourself

>>50805193
But Dredge already plays a set of (2 mana) ancestral recalls.
The problem I have with cards like Thoughtseize is that they need to be in your opening hand or else they are totally dead in your deck.

>>50804956
>>50805060
Given a choice between infect and jund I'll play Infect, despite the fact I like jund more, because the matchups for infect are just better. I don't like the meta, because hyper aggressive decks like infect, burn, affinity, dredge are rewarded, and decks like jund are punished by ba matchups like Tron. I'm not sure what the format needs, but it needs something. Till then I'll be slowly building towards legacy.

>>50804598

The thing is, I don't feel the list is particularly weak for what it is. It's not a fine-tuned Abzan list, but for a BW Aristocrats deck, it's almost as good as it gets. Only things I'm lacking are Bob (not using anything here though Grim Haruspex is an option), Origins Lili (using Pawn of Ulamog), Hangarback (using Endless One), and Path that I'm not even sure if it's better than Tragic Slip. Plus the shocks but those I'm going to buy ASAP. Besides Bob and Hangarback, it's not far behind in power level.

Now, the archetype itself might be weak, but I'm going to test more, maybe even in MODO where the same list goes for 8 tix. It really, REALLY does not seem like a complete trainwreck. And it's upgradeable to Abzan.

>>50803567
Meanwhile, Commander is the only thing I see people playing at the moment.

>>50806666
Path is ultra important especially right now.

First of all you can't deal with something until you kill something before making tragic slip useful. Then after that comes the problem of dredge. You can deal with dredge creatures with Path but in no way you can do that with Slip.

>>50806694
EDH was great because for a lot of people, it was a chance to actually dig through their old collections and build a thematic deck. The goal wasn't to build the strongest deck you could think of with 100 cards, but to have fun.
Now with everybody playing 30tutors.dec or some other cancerous shit in EDH, and with Wizards forcing their premade decks with all these new EDH commanders, the fun is being sucked out. I guess it's a way to get newbies in to the game? But every time I've gone to EDH, there's usually a couple people with multiple decks that offer to let someone new play with them once.
I definitely wouldn't expect EDH to last more than another year or two at the rate wizards is milking it.

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>>50802085
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/19-12-16-lantern-control/

Pretty much this list. Adjust as your meta requires.

Any retards still here against Twin unban?

>>50806821
I don't see how Wizards providing people who play Commander more tools to play the format, as a bad thing.

And people have been running a trillion tutors in EDH since its inception. You'd have to be an idiot to NOT think tutors were the most powerful cards in the format the second you heard 100 card singleton.

>>50806484
Tron needs to die, it hoses a whole archetype and some faggot's turn 3 Karn fun cannot come before the playerbase's ability to play midrange decks.

>>50807310
Wizards should never have designed cards to be played outside of their core constructed and limited formats. So designing for Commander is fucking retarded.

What they've done is designed Commander cards that are solely for play in Commander. I'm certain that 99% of custom Commander cards are useless outside of the format. And of the 1% that are playable in places like Legacy, even that flexibility is meaningless as Wizards has all but officially abandoned the format.

The reason why this practice is harmful is because you have to manage the emotions of your community and this has left non-EDH players feeling neglected. There is this massive pile of unplayable dogshit that comes out of EDH decks and even Legendaries that are shat out in booster product, and using the excuse "they're for EDH players" is a shit excuse when it's something nobody in Standard wants.

You could print all the EDH-focused product and shit cards in booster boxes you want if places like Standard and Modern and Legacy weren't suffering. But they are suffering. Prices are fucking out of control and those players are seeing effort being wasted on fucking EDH when they are finding events difficult to fire because nobody can afford 60-card constructed. Wizards can continue ignoring Modern, my pet format, but their ridiculous design philosophy has fucking ruined Standard, their supposed bread and butter, Standard - their fucking excuse to ignore Modern and Legacy. It's gotten to the point where you look at the pool of cards and if it's not Mythic or Rare it's unplayable useless pieces of EDH shit that people in EDH don't even want to play.

EDH players were happy to take from the regular card pool. And if anything at all, Wizards should just replace the line "target player" with "each player" or "each opponent" with their spells if they want to give them added flexibility in EDH.

>>50807310
It's not a problem by any stretch but seriously: watch all the things WOTC has done to make commander a thing in the last year. It's literally retarded.

And what do eternal formats get? Two sessions of bans and unbans. That's just fucking great.

If they do that much for commander at least they could have the decency to help out other formats. If things are specifically printed specifically for commander in the standard set ( the new planeswalkers ) then why can't new cards be made specifically for Legacy/Modern/whatever in those same sets? That makes no fucking sense at all that Commander gets all the shit in the world and the rest of the formats can go fuck themselves.

>>50806484
>slowly building towards a dead format
what's the next step of your masterplan?

>>50805153
Okay I've been trying to brainstorm some Academy Ruins tech for dredge, because you can cast it from your yard with loam.
So far I can only think of recurring Engineered Explosives or just getting an Ensaring Bridge.

>>50806694
Commander feels more approachable because it lets you play decks full of fetchlands, duals, Wasteland, FoW, Snappy, Lilly, etc. on the "cheap".
Now that 1v1 is 20 life it has become stupidly skill intensive. It's rather refreshing to see games won by bluffing and attrition rather than drawing your sideboard silver bullet.

>>50808232
>duel commander will never be an actual format
kill me now

>>50808258
It is now a dead format because fucking Brazilians and Europeans just collectively lost their shit and broke off from the Duel Commander group by forming "Leviathan Commander" which is exactly the same except it preserves the 30 life rule.

Nice job you fucking dipshits. It doesn't matter if the choice to go to 20 was good or bad, whatever the result of that was, it will ALWAYS be worse when you fucking split the community to go form your own community.

Duel Commander is never going to be popular enough, not while Duel and Leviathan are going to constantly fucking jockeying for acknowledgement and legitimacy on the Internet, which will sabotage any attempts to establish the formats in real-life.

Look at those people pushing Frontier. The Japanese can get away with it because they literally have at least two events of each format running every single day. But for the rest of us we got one fucking day, maybe two, a week to play. Making Frontier popular is just going to cannibalize the time/space for the other formats. Big North American communities get a bit of "variety" while smaller communities just roll over and fucking die.

>>50808232
>Commander
>skill intensive
ahahahahahaahah
next you're going to tell me that modern is skill intensive...

>>50808174
>>50808176

Wait, are you telling me Wizards sometimes makes cards/releases designed with specific formats in mind?

You don't say? And here I thought Eternal Masters was for Pauper.

>>50808494
Eternal Masters and Modern Masters helped nobody play Eternal or Modern. It was fucking spit in the cup of a thirsty man.

Guess what, dude is still fucking thirsty.

>>50808174
Legacy really isn't suffering, it's as well as ever outside the US and only having a hiccup in the US because people didn't notice how dependant they had become on SCG. Fool me once...

Flusterstorm, Ruhan of the Fomori, Karador Ghost Chieftrain, Animar Soul of the Elements, Edric Spymaster of Trest, True-Name Nemesis, Toxic Deluge, Darksteel Mutation, Unexpectedly Absent, Sydri Galvanic Genius, Ophiomancer, Sudden Demise, Feldon of the Third Path, Wake the Dead, Commeupance, Containment Priest, Centaur Vinecrasher, Karlov of the Ghost Council, Arachnogenesis, Ash Barrens, Vial Smasher the Fierce and the Confluence cycle would all be relevant in Modern, but Modern is WotC's ugly middle children who doesn't desserve any toys.

>>50797353
When they want to sell an otherwise shitty set. It will be mythic rare.

>>50808416
I wouldn't lie to you anon.

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>>50808494
That's not what we meant you stupid fuck. Learn to read next time.

Cards are SPECIFICALLY released in standard sets specifically marketed for Commander. Some planewalkers in Kaladesh and Aether Revolt are specifically illegal in standard and made for commander, taking up slots in the packs.

So here's the follow up question: why the fuck is commander the only format profitting from this?! Hell even as the other anon said it fucks up standard, which they care above anything else that exists.

Commander gets new cards, more reprints and even new cards that are specifically meant for commander in STANDARD SETS. It wasn't enough that they made cheesy as fuck cards and their excuse were " Hey don't hate on these ultra expensive cards, they are for commander players ". Fair enough, but this time they really get the assfuck train going.

Hell at this pace it wouldn't surprise me that WOTC decides that standard is just a bunch of shit and will stop supporting it to only favor limited and commander.

All the efforts they've done in the past, all the time they dedicated to make Legacy a thing ( because yeah WOTC came up with Legacy, players were perfectly fine with 1.5 back in the day ), the time they dedicated to make Modern a thing, etc ... All these things are fucking lost because their entire team is trying to appeal to all the commander players out there for some fucking cryptic reasons.

What happened these last two years?? I don't get it. They get a surge of new players and they decided to blow it all because they saw that commander players were on the rise because they are ultra fucking poor so boom, let's make a trillion sets for commander players and in case it wasn't good enough let's vomit commander specific cards into new sets.

So I'll repeat my question: why is commander the only format to get steady reprints AND new cards in formats that aren't even dedicated to them? Other formats NEEDS them more.

>>50808365
Well, one format is supported by the largest community of 1v1 Commander players in the world and a team that has been the voice of the format for nearly a decade. The other is hues and italians.
Leviathan will die as soon as something shiny or a fat ass passes by.

>>50808494
>And here I thought Eternal Masters was for Pauper.
It kinda was. It shoved the cost of Burn in half and downshifted a bunch of neat cards.

>>50808689
>trying to appeal to all the commander players out there for some fucking cryptic reasons.

Might be because Commander players are the only ones buying shit for non-Standard play, Anon. Wizards makes almost no profits from Vintage or Modern, so why the fuck would they support it? This isn't a case of bite the hand that feeds, since Modern and Vintage players stopped "feeding" Wizards a long time ago.

I think any problems of modern and standard come from two angles.

First, Wizards has gutted effective decks of predominantly commons and uncommons. Burn always used to be a cheap, fine option for getting into standard, and its effectiveness is practically nil for the last few rotations (atarka red notwithstanding). This intimidates players, who feel forced to play with expensive mythics, while the dynamic rock-paper-scissors meta punishes those who aren't able to constantly switch decks to keep up.

However, the second problem comes from the playerbase, that has recently become almost allergic to brewing. The reappearance of Marvel in standard is one example of people assuming a format is solved when a decent pile of cards from a previously dismissed archetype is able to push through to tier 1. The same is true in modern as well. People are so fixated on meta lists, they tunnel vision and forget many other cards and strategies that are perfectly playable. Some of these alternate 'non-meta' decks sacrifice a few percentage points across the field, but it may be a drop of 55% for a high price tier 1 deck to 50% for your brew. If you're at the pro tour, that's a big difference, but very few modern games take place at that level. The glut of information on the internet promotes net-decking to the exclusion of innovation, which then causes players to whine about stagnant formats. Ultimately, it's not the formats that are stagnant, it's the player base.

I think Kaladesh is a step forward on Wizards' part, as there's a lot of interesting uncommons that are worth building around, a lot of interesting rares to brew with that tend to be pretty cheap, and fewer obviously pushed cards for standard play, in comparison to the gross power imbalance between the pushed cards and the non-pushed chaff in BfZ and SoI blocks. If Wizards can keep this up, things may turn around, but everything will stay stagnant if the players continue to bitch and whine instead of trying new things.

>>50808689
I wonder if Wizards knows how fucking hard it is for stores to offer Commander events in comparison to regular constructed events. The amount of salt that has the potential to exist simply because of the political nature of the format causes more conflict than any normal store wants to manage.

At this point I want to see Constructed die starting with Legacy, followed by Modern, then Standard.

And by "die" I mean I would be interested in seeing what their community will be like with nothing but ignorant-die-hards and new players. No long-term players who are balanced individuals, only the players who make Magic their life like a drug habit.

Yunno, I never see any of our concerns here expressed outside of 4chan. We obviously see this shit going down but everywhere else is talking about meaningless problems and not talking about affordability. There is a perfectly good fucking solution in front of us - make what is already playable affordable. But instead everyone is offering NEW SHIT as the solution and we all know that is only going to divide the attention.

>>50808689
>why is commander the only format to get steady reprints AND new cards in formats that aren't even dedicated to them?
Because EDH casuals buy cards from WotC. They are willing to pay for all the trash that gets printed because they are non-competitive/collectors/new to the game/whatever.
People who play 60 card formats only buy cards through the secondary market because they know better than to crack boosters.

It's really sad but EDH essentially IS kitchen table magic at this point. Except the scene is also full of autists who want to be competitive at a 100 card singleton casual format. Fuck I hate so much about MTG these days.

>>50809021
>They are willing to pay for all the trash that gets printed
This might be the reason you no longer like MTG than any other factor, Anon. A lot of those cards are actually good in Commander, which is why they are bought in the first place.

It's the same old "Power Gamer vs Regular Gamer" mantra, but wherever the regulars go, Power gamers go for easy prey. It no different than players who are just above average going into "Beginner Only" servers to reek havok on players just looking for a good time with a different mentality of play.

>>50808986
>since Modern and Vintage players stopped "feeding" Wizards a long time ago
THEN FUCKING TELL US THAT WIZARDS.

Kill the formats if they're not feeding you. Stop fucking feeding those formats your fucking scraps like the Masters sets and leaving it on life support.

Stop your fucking condescension that Modern and Legacy players are ungrateful shits that don't spend their money. Yes, it's true we don't spend money on fucking product but that is because Wizards has made ZERO effort to give us a good reason to buy their fucking product. All they have to do is fire up the goddamn printing presses, we'll throw our money at it.

I'm not playing MTGO. Fuck that. I don't play any game where I can't be social. I'm not playing some online game where my opponent can fucking triple queue and leave me waiting for 10 minutes at a time.

You fucking people. I fucking hate you people. You just lump all of us into a group by our label as Eternal players and assume we're all unwilling to spend our money when it's fucking on Wizards who has to either give us a reason to feed them or just declare we're beneath their attention.

>>50808689
You seem pretty mad. Cards 'for commander' can use a much broader range of effects, at a much broader range of costs. Meanwhile, in modern, cards that cost more than 1 mana face an uphill battle for relevance, and anything more than 3 mana better be damn absurd if it's to see any play at all. Cards 'for commander' are taking up slots that they need cards for anyway, cards for modern need to standard warping levels of pushed to be at all relevant.

>trying to appeal to all the commander players out there for some fucking cryptic reasons.
They tried supporting legacy directly and came out with shit like true-name nemesis. Meanwhile, random jank like Paradoxical Outcome is stirring things up in Vintage. Part of the appeal of non-rotating formats is precisely that things don't change too quickly, so you can buy in on a deck and play it without changing much for years. Given that, and given their lack of time to test for formats as deep as legacy and modern, it's better just to let things flow from standard naturally. Other formats don't really NEED them more at all.

Although I'm not denying that seeing some decent modern reprints rather than the garbage fire that was MM15 would be nice and helpful.

>>50809097
Eternal Masters was literally the product they made for Modern and Vintage. The only cards in those formats that see play are literal design mistakes that warp the game, so if you are expecting Wizards to create NEW T0-3 win decks, you might as well just find a new TCG now.

>>50809070
The power gamers are what I hate most about EDH. I understand the appeal of the format for new players. Whenever I walk around a campus and see people playing MTG they are playing Commander 100% of the time, usually in a group having a fun time. Grognard or not I can smile at that. I hate the idea of hypercompetitive autists dropping $1000 on a commander deck to crush them. And because every LGS in my city has at least one EDH tournament a week, yet none of them run Legacy and Modern gets almost no support.

I'm also skeptical how good most new cards are in (non-casual) EDH. If I'm throwing stuff like Mana Crypts, Yawg Wills, Hermit Druids, or whatever into my deck I doubt any cards from Kaladesh are going to make the cut.

For Elves, is there any utility land I can slot in if I don't have cavern of souls? I'm building on a budget for a more casual FNM scene nearby. I regularly 5-0 with Soul Sisters if that gives you an indication what I'm working with in regards to competition.

>>50809152
Releasing Eternal Masters and having the Reserve List around and not officially declaring the formats dead is cruel and cowardly. It's the cowardly that makes people hate businesses when as a business they should be cold and professionally execute what isn't serving their goals.

Abolishing the Reserve List and printing product is a hot move. Killing the formats officially will be cold and we can move on. But right now it's lukewarm, they're profiting by printing Eternal Masters but not giving people everything they need - like the toothbrush without the toothpaste.

I'm not talking about new cards that invigorate the format. I want the format as is and I can't even have that.

>>50809240
>I regularly 5-0 with Soul Sisters if that gives you an indication what I'm working with in regards to competition.
You can probably get by with a basic mountain in that slot.

>>50808987
You really think this current block is a good standard block? Are you fucking out of your mind?

Nowadays standard is literally a format where you can't answer any problematic things. You can't answer that fucking copter. You can't answer Emrakul. You can't answer Marvel. You literally have no efficient answers for any of these cards, so this is going to be standard until it rotates out.

Nowadays it's all good mythics, but guess what: these mythics become USELESS as soon as they leave standard because everyone and their mothers have an answer for it. Copter? Eat that fucking Ancient Grudge you piece of shit. Same for Marvel. And for Emrakul? I'd give you the keys of my eyes if: 1. you found a reason to run that card over all the other explosive big drops available in eternal formats and 2. A way to cast them without being dead before it or simply not being able to cast them.

So yeah, that resumes why MTG is suffering overall by all of these new sets that came out: Wizards became too scared of printing good common, uncommons and even rares because they are scared of making another card like Delver. So they not only tune down the power of these cards but also make no good answers for all the good cards out there.

It would benefit every format if they made good commons and uncommons while printing decent to good answers. That's what would save the entire game at this point. But seems like Wizards decided to please to the casual players by letting them play whatever the fuck they want because " being ultra punished is not fun ".

>>50809243
Don't worry, there is a team of chinamen working around the clock to destroy the sanctity of the reserved list and save Legacy and Modern.

Is mtg really that bad right now as far as tournaments go with standard and modern? I see alot of ppl complaining in these threads but im just getting back into magic amd havent seen what the tournament scene is like.

>>50809286
Yeah. I was actually thinking of making just pauper elves and bringing it, but a few key pieces are eternal.
I just don't want to roll up with a fully tuned deck and scare people who are having fun. Maybe I'll make B/G elves just to run Shaman of the Pack and Gilt Leaf Winnower

>>50809307
Wizards just spoiled a less restrictive Voidlime and tempo Languish, Anon. I don't think the card quality is the problem.

>>50809316
Attendance is down, but we've seen much worse. We're not dying any time soon. Just a period of stagnation, partially from wotc and their ignoring of formats that arent standard (which is broken right now too)

>>50809316
Well here's the thing: Wizards dumped modern off their official coverage and reward system so that's already a big hit in itself. But as >>50809307 said, standard is a fucking piece of garbage right now because the good things have no answers and the common/uncommons are weak as fuck compared to what the rare cards have to propose. So it ends up by who topdecks the broken card before the other one. Now don't get me wrong some decks are like that and it's fine. But when literally everyone plays that kind of deck you wonder where the other type of decks went. Probably in every brewer's trashbin.

>>50809105
>They tried supporting legacy directly and came out with shit like true-name nemesis. Meanwhile, random jank like Paradoxical Outcome is stirring things up in Vintage.
Stop saying things like this like Wizards consciously and purposely designed those cards. They did not intend for True Name to be like that.

Any time they take credit for something they do it afterwards. They are NOT allowed to take credit for fucking a single thing in Magic. Because they do not test publicly they can only take credit if they immediately release the design logs like a director's commentary immediately after the set drops and they don't. They have only ever taken credit long after the community discovers it - that is fucking bullshit. Yes, they should not reveal a set's secrets ahead of time, but at the same time, they should not fucking take credit for things they didn't even know existed until we found it.

Blizzard didn't take credit for all the weird bugs that made Starcraft such a good game to play.

Wizards is like a fucking politician. They take credit for fortuitous events they had no hand in and only acknowledge problems AFTER people point them out. There is nothing pro-active about Wizards, they've failed to prove that they're aware of what they're doing. When you have absolutely zero transparency you have no right to anything.

And people like you attributing competence to a company that fucks up way harder than all the good it does doesn't help the situation and perpetuates a circle-jerk community that is actively ignoring all the hard issues that are killing the game on all levels.

>>50809345
Oh yeah, you really think so? Then come up with an efficient way to destroy that fucking retarded piece of shit that is Copter. I dare you.

Spoiler: you won't find any.

>>50809367
Not him, I feel like Abrupt Decay was a legitimate attempt to throw modern and legacy players a bone, but I could be wrong there.

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>>50809379

>>50809309
None of the current proxies are as good as the proxies from a year and a half ago. Granted, the bad ones from a year and a half ago were really bad, but the good ones were pristine.

I have duals, shocks, and fetches that are perfect when sitting across the table from them. The stuff today has dropped in quality and I don't know why.

>>50809379
Fragmentize

>>50809307
You're so mad it's kind of hilarious. I suppose I'll continue to bite the bait.
>fragmentise, summary dismissal, etc etc etc
Every format has good cards and good strategies. What matters is how dominant they are. Grixis control winning the PT proves that the answers are good enough. People have given up trying to play them. From your rant, you won't be satisfied until the print a one mana colourless sorcery that says "counter target spell or destroy target creature." Then you'd bitch about how unbalanced that card is and how none of the threats are good enough.

>>50809316
Standard is still pretty weak locally, but it seems to be starting to come back, slowly. Modern is still doing great. Not sure about anywhere else, but that's my experience.

>>50809408
It sure as fuck wasn't. I don't need anybody to tell me they needed to print a GB card for that uncounterable cycle so they looked at Gatherer and the most recent spell they could find was Maelstrom Pulse so they jiggered with the numbers and gave us Abrupt Decay.

NOBODY was fucking thinking about Counterbalance. Or helping Pox. Or giving Elves a tool. Yes, they took credit for it afterwards, but that was after everyone and their mother was talking about it.

The way Wizards does things (by telling us nothing leading up to the set reveal) the only way they can prove their know their shit is if they reveal their planning immediately. But they don't. They politically wait until the community figuratively writes their fucking articles for them.

>>50809424
So what you're telling me is basically that you have to run blue to COUNTER the card.

I can name you countless cards that did it way better. Sets where even artifacts were not the main drive had cards like Shatter, Smash to Smithereens, Pithing Needle, Phyrexian Revoker, etc had EFFICIENT way to destroy, kill or bounce these artifacts. And now you're telling me that, literally, the only option to fuck these artifacts over is to run blue.

Now that's just great isn't it? Not to mention that this doesn't deal with artifacts as nicely as those mentionned above because it's a ultra niche counterspell after all.

Also not to mention that graveyard hate is non existant right now so it just adds up to the frustration of Emrakul.

>>50809379
People are going to point out Fragmentize except their fail to realize that Fragmentize doesn't fucking hit anything else in decks that run Copter.

>>50809367
So you want them to come out ahead of time with a list of cards that are purposefully pushed, and a list of which cards you might as well just throw away because Wizards didn't push them as hard? True-name was a design made for commander, and they knew it would be legal in legacy, where fish was a deck. It's idiotic to insist that they weren't planning for it to have any impact on legacy. But because they can't test for legacy because of the depth of the card pool, they underestimated its impact. Which is my point. Deliberately designing things to be viable in older formats just leads to bad designs that are pushed to hell and back, so it's better to just let things enter those formats in the natural way.

>>50809484
>>50809493
You're hilarious and also retarded. t. someone who actually plays the game instead of bitching about it on 4chan

>>50809514
>True-name was a design made for commander, and they knew it would be legal in legacy, where fish was a deck. It's idiotic to insist that they weren't planning for it to have any impact on legacy.
http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/67069069894/why-did-you-make-true-name-nemesis-for-people
GET FUCKED

Don't assume people here are not autistic enough to know everything about this game and everything that comes out of Wizards' and MaRo's mouth.

>>50809379
Harnessed Lightning
Blessed Alliance
Grasp of Darkness
Unlicenced Desintigration
Natural State
Murder
Immolating Glare
Negate
Moonlit Hunt
Essence Extraction
Skywhaler's Shot
Tears of Valakut
Spacial Contortion
Clip Wings
Outnumber
Titan's Presence
Appetite for the Unnatural

Nigga, I'm only on page 4 of 9...

Also >>50809493 see ^^^

>>50809442
You're that kind of new player that says " lol this is fine, there's one counter that counters one specific card it's all fine xd ".

You've not seen the actual godlike standard rotations like Innistrad, where sure, you had a powerful reanimator deck but you had efficient counters to the whole mechanic of the deck while being cheap. That made the deck, while being dominant, have fierce competition as well.

Now it's practically useless because even if you pack out ONE removal, counterspell or whatever it doesn't matter because the whole deck continues to function as normal and thus remains the top contender of the meta. Also, mentionning one result of one PT as a proof of your argument is fucking retarded. That's called result-oriented thinking, and that's the kind of thinking that lead standard to the shithole that it is now: player playing bomb first wins, and there's nothing you can do about it.

>>50809554
>Design doesn’t even set power level so we had no idea that it was going to end up playable in Legacy.
Your choice of quote. Maro's design, and the numbers were finalized and approved in development. Development knew which formats it would be legal in, and considered the printed power level appropriate.

>>50809594
>Comparing an entire 3 set block release to a single set

At least try to not be retarded for a minute, Anon.

>>50809574
As a person who doesn't play Standard, none of those cards seem good enough to be maindeck material.

Like none of them. Maybe Grasp and Murder. But most of those are going to do fuck-all after the Copter has gotten value or are too narrow to be maindeckable.

Those cards fucking suck. Is Standard a format where those cards are actually playable? That's hardly believable when you're facing down fucking Grim Flayers.

>>50809594
I played during innistrad standard. Hell, I started playing standard during original Mirrodin. The current standard is fine.

>>50809635
It's almost like there is a 15 card side board for a reason...

If Copter is as OP as he claims, than setting aside SB options for it for T1-3 is a no fucking brainer. The thing can't benefit if it barely gets a chance to attack, AND that isn't keeping in mind that you actually need a creature to crew the damn thing before you can swing with it.

>>50808208
Well, I won't bore you with the details, but have you heard of pogs?

>>50809635
>As a person who doesn't play Standard, let me opine about shit I have no fucking clue about

Sums up this discussion perfectly.

>>50808555
Wasteland became cheaper, which I appreciate.

Is frontier going to kill modern? Do we dare hope?

>>50809620
So they're so incompetent that nobody there noticed or departments they don't talk to each other.

And at the end they still don't preemptively mention True Name until the community mentions it.

We'll never know how incompetent I think they are. But I have more than enough reason to think they are not as competent as you think nor do they use effective methods to express their competency.

>>50809574
Not him, but creature removal isn't THAT great against copter. If you opponent sees you holding up mana for removal, he's not going to crew the copter, and would just attack with his unimportant creatures while building up his board, and holding up mana all game for copter isn't a winning strategy. You're going to have to use it on his other creatures.

>>50808555
Then perhaps you should have preserved the water you had instead of blowing it all in one go.

It shouldn't come to anyone's surprise when an eternal format who's main appeal is never really needing to cycle out cards turns into a massive blight on the game when the only cards that see play in it are genre warping staples throughout the game's history. This is the hole you dug, so sleep tight I guess.

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>>50809752
>So they're so incompetent that nobody there noticed or departments they don't talk to each other.
So you have no idea how design and development works? I'm through arguing. You may consider this a victory, but all I'm responding with now are pictures of smug anime girls.

>>50809754
Except it is, and the concept that you have to use creature removal and not artifact removal is just dumb. Sure, not all colors have it, but if he isn't swinging with the Copter, he isn't benefiting from it. So what, is he going to throw his only 1/1 at your 1/1 and leave himself crewless now? Give me a break.

>>50808992
>I wonder if Wizards knows how fucking hard it is for stores to offer Commander events in comparison to regular constructed events. The amount of salt that has the potential to exist simply because of the political nature of the format causes more conflict than any normal store wants to manage.
At my store there's Commander and Duel Commander.
Commander players come, sit at a table and go ignored doing their shit all day long consuming snacks and dollar rares like they're crack candy.
Duel Commander players organize themselves to fire FNM.
Modern players have stopped showing up altogether and Standard faggots left because they couldn't have 100% of the staff's attention all day everyday because drafters and Commander players are there and actually spend money.

I can imagine how shit it would be to try and organize competitive multiplayer Commander, thankfully locals aren't mad enough to try.

>>50809724
Nah, stores are fueling the hype so they can offload excess product.

Frontier will have all the problems Modern has, if it becomes big. The meta will be solved (very quickly, actually, given the size of the card pool), there will be a few top decks that reign supreme, and prices will skyrocket. Because it's cheap and brewer-friendly now, people want to believe it'll stay that way, but they'll figure it out eventually, and all this hype will slip away.

How badly people want Frontier shows just how messed up Modern is, though. This format has become so degenerate and expensive, people are dying for an alternative.

>>50809654
Oh yeah, standard is nice? Then tell me why the attendance is so low for standard. And I swear to god if you're going to mention " muh promos " you're as dumb as all the other people that try defending this fucking joke of a standard rotation.

Standard is unfun to play, to watch, and is essentially playing bombs until your opponents scoops or you find your emrakul. That's literally it.

Now if that's your definition of fun then to hell with what I expected from the MTG playerbase. This is nowhere fun compared to what we had in the past, even the standard rotations that were ultra tedious to play ( remember that time where Xantid Swarm literally pushed Land Destruction to top of the meta? I do. )

>>50809837
except he can just play a creature and crew it immediately. Also, thinking that you have to swing with the copter to benefit from it is wrong. Its very presence forces you to hold up mana for removal or spend it on some other creature that is not copter, while your opponent is continually building up his board.

>So what, is he going to throw his only 1/1 at your 1/1 and leave himself crewless now?
If he swings into your 1/1 it likely means he has another creature in his hand to crew it. Come on, son. Take the hint.

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>>50809937

>>50809105
>True-name nemesis
And then they stopped putting Legacy cards in Commander product because they lost money at having to reprint C13.
Magic is crumbling under it's own weight and the ridiculous ammount of different interests within the company.

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Looking for a budget way to enter the format.

Is UW Emeria any good? Seems fun and kinda cheap.

>>50809307
MaRo pretty much said people who want spells to be meaningful are wrong and have to shut up already during a tumblr debate (of all things) for land destruction, discard and counters on blogatog.

So long as the jew faggot is leading, we won't get answers. He wants clogged gamestates with zero interaction and that's what we'll get.

>>50810049
it's kind of ridiculous how bad standard had gotten. Anyone remember the GW Devotion mirrors?

>>50809943
And I STILL have a hand full of removal to kill off the creature he plans to play, so I still doesn't understand what your point was.

>>50809316
There's 17 LGS in my city, none are firing Standard FNM with more than 12 people, none are doing Modern. It's either Duel Commander, Draft or misfires. A bunch of stores have 20+ Showdown boosters for this saturday because not even that shit's firing. Only Standard events with more than 15 people I've seen all year long were RPTQs or StarCity Game Night.

>>50810123
sure, if you have a bunch of removal that's great against copter and friends. But why you have a bunch of removal in hand along with a 1/1 in play makes me question just what kind of deck you are playing.

>only time modern general is alive is when we're discussing how much the format sucks

>>50808103
It serves a purpose in modern, but it just hoses midrange and gets hosed by agreeance decks, which allows the aggressive decks an edge in this meta.

>>50810177
A deck designed around fucking with the current meta? You know, how Standard is played?

>>50810177
Also, decks in standard tend to play over twice as many creatures as they do removal (unless you're control) So it's safe to reason that if you have a bunch of removal in hand, your opponent will likely have twice as many creatures. Go ahead and spend all that removal on his creatures.

>>50809911
>Modern players have stopped showing up altogether and Standard faggots left because they couldn't have 100% of the staff's attention all day everyday because drafters and Commander players are there and actually spend money.
This is absolutely bizzaro world to me. To me, Modern has nobody playing it because nobody can afford to play it, Standard should garner 100% of the store's attention because of sales of booster box product, and the store has given up on Limited and Commander because people are constantly being shitty and making it inconvenient for the stores to run even though there's demand.

>>50810155
I think it is interesting watching Standard die. Wizards moves at a snail's pace to do things. They have not realized that damage to the game happens in a day or a month or even by the school cycle and the action they take today comes into effect three years from now. Modern has always been rotten, Standard has shown signs of decay since Theros, Eternal was dry until their stupid Super League and Eternal Masters sprayed water on it so we could smell it's foulness again.

I do nothing but print out all my cards now for Comamnder and Cube. Same game. A $40 printer +$60 in ink can do a lot of work.

>>50810222
I would love to talk about the format, but the cost of real cards are too expensive and players don't have the drive to print out (or pay for) good proxies to get games going.

Played Modern twice in the past year. People are lazy and Wizards doesn't give a fuck.

>>50810092
No because during that standard you could play against Esper Control, RG Monsters, GW Devotion, U Devotion, B Devotion, Heroic, R Slight and BR Suicide Aggro which made mirrors a rare thing.
Nowadays its UW Spirits, Marvel or Delirium, all day every day.

>>50810222
Honestly it's because the majority of the formats suck. Every formats have problems that can be fixed easily if WOTC pulled some triggers: putting the reserved list in the trashbin, where it belongs, more reprints in general, print good cards in general??? Is that too much to ask or did the game become a kid playground? I think they don't realize that the players that made MTG a thing were the dedicated and " hardcore " players, not the shitload of casuals that storm commander and standard nowadays.

Only Legacy and Commander have some semblance of actual conversation because it gets attention from the people that can either afford it for people playing Legacy, and people that are casual enough to enjoy commander.

>>50810268
Seriously what deck are you playing? i'm trying to think of a deck with 1/1s and a bunch of removal, but the only thing that comes to mind is RB Aggro. 3c/4c vehicles comes close but trading toolcraft exemplar for your opponent's 1/1 seems very weak.

I don't know what exactly the problem with Standard is because I don't play it, but I can confirm attendance at the 3 LGSs I visit has evaporated.

I don't know what happened to the players, it's not like they all jumped ship to Modern or whatever. People just aren't coming.

>>50810470
The problem is that standard is fucking lame right now. Case closed. That's seriously it.

>>50810470
Standard turned into mythic midrange creatures. It's boring when that's literally the only strategy. If you think back to how back Eldrazi winter was, that's literally what every deck in standard strives to be.

>>50810222
I know Wizards cannot collect this information, but there is probably a significant number of Modern players who ate back-to-back deck bannings. Like, let's name a few: Twin, Bloom, Storm, Eggs, Pod, Eldrazi, and Jund (temporarily with Bloodbraid and Deathrite) which was made all the worse when Jund comes back and you needed a fresh playset of 4 Mythics every new set. I'm not even talking about the early guys like Shoal - we knew shit like that was justified 100%.

Forget for the moment whether a ban was justified or not. Step away from that.

Just consider that for some people, that deck was all they had. And the second deck was all they had. Start anything, doesn't matter what it is, and the first two things you try in that thing you get kicked the balls, not because you did anything wrong, but because someone said however you decided to approach things was no longer legal, which would be fine if your money spent could pivot to other decks - but we all know there are very few non-removal spells in Modern that go in multiple decks.

Now add back the consideration that it was done for the health of the format. Healthy for who? The retards who had all the cards and played Modern to death by the first month? Did we really punch all those would-be Modern hopefuls in the dick so we could placate all the fucking Pros bitching about how boring the format was? Did we really expel possibly hundreds or thousands of players because people who had all the expensive cards were bored? We did. We jumped on the hate-bandwagon that the Pros moaned about and Wizards did the fucking stupid thing and listened to us instead of weighing the consequences.

The problem is that Wizards never cared about that impact each time they did what they did. They didn't even tell us the reason was to spice up the PT. They didn't even tell us that it was the reason why they knocked Modern out of the PT circuit. They told us nothing; so we are left to believe they don't care.

>>50810544
>They didn't even tell us that it was the reason why they knocked Modern out of the PT circuit.
That's a good thing though. Players don't want Modern PTs.

>>50810312
At the LGS I go to the most, the largest Standard event since they opened in 2014 has been pauper Standard with 42 people, the average Standard event is 0 people. On the other hand they have montly Legacy nights with 30+ people, largest has been 46, smallest 14.
People show up to draft every friday and Commander players are always around.

This store just can't fire a regular Standard event, Modern has zero interest and Frontier was shut down as soon as it was mentioned. People want to play Stoneforge, Jace, True-Name, Force of Will, Wasteland, Balance, Necropotence, Demonic Tutor, Atraxa and Queen Marchesa. Not Gideon, not Emrakul, not LooterScooter, or have to play the sideboard lottery.

Modern (as in Post M10, not the format) constructed is utter shit despite limited being enjoyable. The drafters leave most of their cards on the counter at the end of the night because they're useless crap, they don't want Marvels or Gearhulks, they want Fastlands, Chandra and Lotus Petals, Crucibles, Sol Rings, etc. I have six Copters in my binder and just can't move them because nobody wants that shit at the price it's going for, I haven't been able to get the Conspiracy 2 mythics I want locally despite having desirable Standard cards because nobody actually wants that shit who is not a Spike, and a shitload of Spikes have just given up and moved to Heartstone where playing at top level is cheaper and prizes are larger.

I haven't been able to play Modern in paper since the Eldrazi Winter, if I didn't have Legacy and 1v1 EDH decks, I wouldn't get to play Magic anymore.

>wizards makes no money off of formats that aren't standard
What if wizards actually tried to make good products for other formats instead of garbage like eternal and modern masters. Hell I'd probably buy something like ftv with format staples/cards that desperately need a reprint in it, but instead I get draft sets with lottery cards and I don't particularly enjoy drafting.

>>50810580
Legacy is where its at anyway. So all seems fine.

>>50810573
Good so you don't want coverage of your format by the official game designers. It's like the designers saying " fuck you we don't care about your fucking format, the events we cover are the things we care about " but it's a good thing for some fucking weird reason you came up with out of your ass?

I don't know what to fucking say at this point. Not mentionning that this completly defeats the purpose of trying to bring new people in the format too so what you're saying is literally the contrary of what people want in modern: more people to play with and less of a barrier. But now WOTC added the new barrier of the " not presenting what pros do with the format " which is stupid as fuck.

>>50810573
Locally Modern went from 946 people at last year's WMCQ to zero people at $100 prize pool events for $3 entry as soon as it was announced that we weren't a PT format anymore.
In contrast the Standard WMCQ this year had only 320 people.

A lot of people did care for the Modern Pro Tour.

>>50810596
Why don't they actually just make Modern Masters an unlimited-print run and stuff it full of Modern staples?

Don't do the $10 a pack bullshit. Don't put every playable card at mythic. Just stop acting like "MTG Investors" are a customerbase, and give your players what they fucking want. Modern could easily be affordable and it could make WotC an metric-fuckton of money getting there.

Let investors have Vintage.

>>50810603
I am indeed ridiculously lucky to live in a Legacy-friendly city and that my Modern decks have Legacy ports so I didn't waste money on shit like Tron or DSZ.

>>50810630
>it's a good thing for some fucking weird reason you came up with out of your ass?
Are you fucking new bro? And I would appreciate if you weren't so fucking hostile.
The playerbase was very vocal about discontinuing modern PTs because it encouraged bannings simply to shake things up for coverage. The twin ban was a big example.

>>50810700

>>50810656
well, this is news to me. Like I said alot of players in modern simply didn't want a modern PT for the reason I stated.

>>50810603
Anon you're soon going to realize the upcoming shitstorm that is going to happen if people keep going out of standard and modern to go in Legacy. The reserved list is going to act like a boa constrictor. Sure you could argue price isn't going to make the format die. What's going to make it die is the fact the cards are unfindable. There are cards that are already super fucking hard to find like Imperial Recruiter. If it goes like this, instead of being hard to find, they'll be unfindable, plain and simple.

Actually Legacy players are rejoicing that more and more people play the format but as soon as the cards will just disappear from the market then the whole game is going to explode and eventually it's going to be the great exode. Sure, we had combo winter. We had artifact winter. We had eldrazi winter. But none of those killed MTG because these were fixable mistakes in the long term. The reserved list is the complete contrary of that and will kill legacy and vintage by its own. It's just a matter of time.

Honestly guys I'm fucking scared. I love MTG. I love this cardgame with so many interactions and twisted ideas that attracts so many different kind of players it's fascinating. But lately the end of the game is seriously near and it's going to act like a nuke.

>>50810700
>>50810715
Sorry for being hostile, this discussion is driving me mad and angry because these were things I cared about. Sure, you're right: modifying banlists purely for spicing up the format is a bit ridiculous, but isn't that better than just completly discarding the format as a covered and competitive format?

PTs are literally the thing all MTG players watch at some point because they watch " how it's done ". Whether it's for learning how to play a deck, a certain matchup or whatever reason, PTs are a big thing for both spectators and players. But now that modern is out of it, a lot of hype is just simply gone.

Now the same players that were happy about modern not being covered anymore are crying for people to play with in the first place. I bet they regret it with all their heart, but there's no turning back now because people don't realize how dumb they are by asking such things.

>>50810718
I love Magic too. But Wizards and their lack of effort to police this fucking terrible community has spurned that love.

People constantly quoting the fucking pros without critically thinking about what was said. When every idiot on the Internet can publish they swill and be called a "pro". When the fuck have pros added anything to the game - nobody who watches hockey or football actually fucking play those games. Don't get me wrong, pros are important to the legitimacy of a game. But only Wizards depends on the pros for ideas because they themselves have no fucking idea what's going on. And the players that matter, the people who continue to buy your fucking sports equipment and actually leave their house to play are hurting and nobody is asking them, what's the matter.

Look at their shit surveys they put out there. If I dare answer that I've played less than 0-1 times this past year, they say, "survey completed, for answering the survey, but we don't need to anymore from you - thanks and fuck off."

This game is fucking undeserving of our love. And this makes me sound like a fucking liberal faggot but the people in charge, the secondary market, and our beloved elite pros have let NONE of the value trickle down.

>>50810869
I want to add that it actually hurts me to see people openly express their love for this game. All the people who cosplay, podcast, and ignorantly promote this game for free saying how great it is.

They're all doing fucking damage to this game. They're supporting something without acknowledging that it's being held up on rotten and decaying stilts. Their audience thinks things are all fucking great because look at these cosplayers and wacky personalities.

Well here's the deal, most people don't give a shit about these personalities. When I go out to toss around the football I'm not thinking about the fucking Super Bowl.

Why the fuck is nobody talking about Kibler not playing the game anymore. Why does nobody care that Brian Wong left the Limited Resources podcast and doesn't play anything but Chaos Draft anymore. I know why and I don't care and the people by all appearances seem to care don't use their power to bring to light the things that are killing this game.

People are fucking circle-jerking over cosplay and watching videos of the pros doing sweet plays when stores are empty and barren. It's like an animal is going extinct due to poaching and we're content to have video footage of it when it finally goes.

>>50810780
> Sure, you're right: modifying banlists purely for spicing up the format is a bit ridiculous, but isn't that better than just completly discarding the format as a covered and competitive format?
It's hard to say, and I have no answer to this. The format IS defined by the banlist, and we've seen profound changes in the metagame, for good or for worse, with the twin ban.

>PTs are literally the thing all MTG players watch at some point because they watch " how it's done ". Whether it's for learning how to play a deck, a certain matchup or whatever reason, PTs are a big thing for both spectators and players. But now that modern is out of it, a lot of hype is just simply gone.
Maybe we can push for more GP coverage. How's Modern GP attendance this year anyway? Idk if it has wavered since they announced that there will no longer be modern PTs.

>Now the same players that were happy about modern not being covered anymore are crying for people to play with in the first place. I bet they regret it with all their heart, but there's no turning back now because people don't realize how dumb they are by asking such things.
Honestly, the blame goes to WOTC for putting them in this position.

>We don't want to reprint expensive modern cards because people have invested a lot of money into them on the secondary market ( which we will also simultaneously pretend doesn't exist ;) )

Does WotC realize they've effectively extended the Reserved List to include All Expensive Cards with this reasoning? With the exception that they'll include, like, 3 or so in a Masters Set as lottery ticket mythics, which won't actually affect the price.

>>50811002
What you're describing is actually scarily close to what is happening with pandas in zoos.

>>50810718
We just had BR Reanimator win a 30 man Legacy event with Blood Crypts instead of Badlands.
Not all decks can thug life like that, but we'll have to adapt to keep playing because WotC doesn't want us to.

>>50810718
The death of Magic is already in the works and nobody is talking about it.
Magic Digital Next is the product the new CEO is pushing. A digital product aiming to convert the brand into an esport and taking any design route necessary to get the Heartstone crowd.
What that means is either Online going Offline with the apocalyptic buttblast that'd cause. Or Standard itself dying for the sake of a subscription based product that'll be the new "Pro" way to play magic, another apocalyptic move this time against LGS. Considering how much MaRo has been implying that the kitchen table players matter more than the LGS players I'm already seeing the light at the end of this tunnel because I'm outside of the US and we don't get Magic product outside of LGS that are precariously surviving on Standard sales.

>>50811099
In 10 years we will have a shitstorm when the environmental equivalent of SJW call having tigers children's books being "insensitive" and people will get angry at that without realizing that tigers no longer exist in the wild. In 20 years we will be saying the same thing about elephants and lions.

In our lifetimes we will see dragons = tigers. In 10 years Magic will be that card thing people used to play - gone like arcades, dancing, stamp collecting, and net neutrality.

>>50811167
Okay so the solutions is finding substitutes? People will surely ask bans after that. But doesn't it defeat the purpose of the reserved list then? If nobody wants these cards because they are playable nowhere then the reserved list will simply become less and less effective and WOTC doesn't want that to happen.

So that's what I'm saying: you can already see the format is so fucked you're obliged to already find alternatives. Soon EVERYONE is going to have to find alternatives and some decks will die because some cards are just irreplaceable and the interesting format that is legacy is going to slowly die.

There's no other solution than abolishing the reserved list and mass repriting to save Legacy as a whole. And then, when Legacy will die, Modern will die too because the prices are going to skyrocket out of moon's range.

I don't want to sound like a doomsayer but this is seriously sounding like the end of MTG right there.

>>50811055
They do have a secondary resserved list, it's just that one works like savings accounts rather than absolute "no"s.
>Oh you absolutely need Damnation, we'll give one to a couple judges so Starcity can buy them all off their starved slave hands and resell them for $100+
>Horizon Canopy? Sure, buy aprox. 32 cases to make sure you get one!
And just when people are ready to give up and throw their shit away
>Look guise! Force of Will and Wasteland! What new marvels may lay in wait? Don't quit and you'll see!

They're pilferers, they steal our time making us wait so much for fucking reprints and then they steal our money by making those reprints ridiculously limited and giving most of it to their secondary market croonies.

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>>50811233

>>50811301
WotC doesn't care about the value of cards of the resserved list in regards to the resserved list. Branding may care because Black Lotus is a legendary pop culture item, sales may care because high RL prices keep StarCity happy. But legal, the part keeping the RL don't give the least of a shit about what it's worth, they only care about not breaking their promise and the promise is not upholding the value or playability of the cards, the promise is not reprinting them in playable forms.

They could ban the whole RL right now and they would be entirely within their right and upholding the promise at 100%

Has anyone tried a RL free Legacy format? I'd assume it's DnT vs Burn 5 ever

>>50811002

It's because of nerds that go on reddit and tumblr. The easily amused casuals who DEMANDED wizards remove top level shit, like good removal, land destruction, creatureless combo, draw-go and easy accessed counterspells. As a result, decks became more uniform, more all rounder instead of being more fragile and difficult to play.

See, these people don't really buy singles or shit from FLGS. They buy some precons, a couple of packs and then play kitchen table for a month or two, then never play again. This fucks over FLGS the hardest, because the hardcore nerds don't really buy packs outside of limited, they mainly just buy snacks and sleeves. And the hardcore nerds don't want to play this shitty fucking standard because kaladesh is so fucking weak on the powerscale it's unreal. No one wants to draft k-desh either, not in the advent of cube where you can literally just print out the cards and not play with weakcards that have ugly art.

>>50811233
Paper MTG doesn't make shit for money. Last year 51% of their revenue was MTGO.
>heartstone crowd
Yeah except they have to compete with another game for that, Shadowverse. Hearthstone gets the blizzdrones and esportsfags, and Shadowverse has waifus and tits. Scantily clad tits EVERYWHERE. It's a rough market to sell, especially when the stench of MTGO looms over it regardless.

>>50811568
In real life when I cite a group for Magic I cite here, 4chan. And people think I'm asking Stalin for human rights advice.

The thing is, 4chan is the only place with a remote chance of getting it real when it comes to Magic. Everywhere else is just a hug-box of uselessness and everyone shits on this place. Any given day 4chan will have better discussion on Magic than the few first pages of the Magic Reddit.

Here, the shit is spewed out chronologically. On Reddit, the highest rated comment is a fucking pun or joke. They don't even talk.

>>50811568
Honestly at this point I'm thinking about creating the cardgame I had in mind for so long but still wanted to play MTG. At this point the game is so locked out that I think I'll move my lazy ass, and when the main design will be nailed I'll certainly make a post and propose anons who want to help make the game better play the game for free until it actually releases.

That's what Hearthstone/Shadowverse fails to do: They don't listen to players. That's what WOTC fails to do: they listen to everyone that has a thing to say. I'm willing to take the challenge of listening to people that matter.

I kinda want to be the fly on the wall when design, sales, marketing, media and branding meet and you have Trick Jarett threatening to commit suicide because he's so triggered those evil capitalists want to print tits in his safe space after three straight quarters of losing money by listening to SJWs.

Heartstone and Shadowverse are low brow as fuck but they're cute and visually attractive. Magic hasn't been so since Guay quit.

>>50811661
The shilling on here during spoiler season is hilariously obvious too.
>"why are you guys making fun of poo in loo"
>"stop it /pol/ kaladesh is a good set"
>"it looks fun"
>"get hyped guys"
>"mtg isnt for white males anymore"
>that false flagging, pretending to be dude bros outraged when a shitskin character with 0 personality was revealed

I can guarantee wotc employees post on here because no one bitches about when someone says poo in loo now. Their typing style was off too, there's a certain style of verbage and grammar that you adapt if you've spent time here.

>>50811705
It won't be too hard to make it paper either, you can just use acetone on shitty fucking theros foils that no one wants, and print on transparencies once you get out of the "printing proxies on paper and sleeving them up" phase.

>>50811568
>>50811873
It actually kills me that Wizards has expunged any aesthetically pleasing characters from the game. It doesn't have to be full blown waifus or beefcake, but there isn't even a hint of making attractive people anymore.

Kaladesh is full of nothing but boring looking laborers in plain clothes. It is a beautiful place; but the people are ugly. I'm an ugly fucker; I don't want to see ugly people in my fiction.

They've more or less fired Steve Argyle because he made fanart of Liliana and Chandra nearly kissing.

>>50811951
>They've more or less fired Steve Argyle
He wasn't that great in the first place. Some of his stuff was good, but most of it was just 'ehhhhh....'. I'm not opposed to scantily clad waifu's, I just prefer them to have properly aligned spine and hips.

>>50811927
I could only wish Wizards shilled on this site. But that would only make the situation worse. It would mean they see our ideas and fucking ignore them.

If they knew anything at all they should know that useless kind of hype doesn't fly here. If anything at all, it makes us even more angry at the idea that someone here can remain positive in the face of all the bullshit we acknowledge.

If they've been truly marketing here, they've just been petting a burning dog.

>>50811873
>trick jarett

This faggot? http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/feature/why-leaks-hurt-2015-12-16

https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/40kdsz/wizards_may_be_cracking_down_on_unsanctioned/cyvzi9d/
>Hey folks, I checked into this and here’s what I can tell you:

>First is an important clarification: Proxy cards are substitute cards created solely by judges in sanctioned tournaments. These substitutes are allowed when authorized game cards become unplayable during a sanctioned tournament because of damage or excessive wear. Unauthorized reproductions of our game are a type of counterfeit, and we want business partners to help us in discouraging counterfeit Magic.

>I know that feels crazy, that we regard marker on a card as a counterfeit, but remove the visual accuracy from the judgment – they serve identical purposes when it comes to game play.

>Counterfeit cards are prohibited in sanctioned events, sounds like most people are on board with that. And based on Wizards’ Code of Conduct, we have started to ask stores not to organize unsanctioned events with counterfeit cards. And to be clear, no one we’ve communicated with recently has been suspended or punished as far as I know. We’ve talked to some stores on the difference between counterfeit and proxy cards, and are asking WPN to stores to work with us in protecting our intellectual property.

>Wizards wants partners in the WPN to make sure stores are welcoming environments, not use our characters in offensive images, and any number of actions that protect Magic experiences. We don’t condone counterfeit cards, and we expect stores to respect that. WPN stores are our partners and we expect them to help us protect our intellectual property.

>We know players love Magic and love playing its variety of formats, including Vintage and Legacy. Some formats are easier to get into than others and these two are hard.

I'm surprised he wasn't fired for that.

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>>50811992
I will take the outrageous broken-spined women of Argyle and Swanland in dynamic poses all day every day over the trash we got of elves in plain robes weaving leaves or Aladdin extras rejects in Kaladesh.

Since we're on the subject of the death of magic, I have to ask.

Am I the only one who thinks transitioning to a living card game model would be better for MtG in the long run?

>>50812095
They are stuck with a system they've put in place. At this point they cannot change it because it would be going back on a whole part of what, for WOTC, makes MTG exciting: collecting the cards themselves.

MTG is stuck with a system and they're obliged to stick with it. Most cardgames' flaws come down to the system they've come up with. In hearthstone the whole design of the game is being user friendly, easy to understand and not pushing cards that " reduce the enjoyement of the game for someone ", so goodbye discard, goodbye any kind of graveyard strategy, and so on.

MTG is an excellent game but the entire flaws of the game are literally how you obtain the cards, but they can't change that because that's the entire philosophy that made the game what it is today.

So yeah MTG is doomed. People better start working on finding other alternatives or making their own game if they want to fix this fatal flaw, because WOTC wouldn't change that for anything in the world.

>>50803082
Probably some kind of BGx deck with this and Coco.

>>50811992
>>50812057
Just wait till Lilly of the Veil has new "real woman" (read: obese uggo) artwork in her MM17 reprint.

>>50812044
That's how you know the company runs 90% on nepotism.

>>50812220
Being attractive is an important part of Lili's characterisation and appeal. I don't see them changing that.

>>50812139
If that philsophy is such a fundamental part of the game, why is it that the majority of experienced players completely revile it? Booster packs are a joke, and the TCG model is inherently anti-consumer and adversarial.

I agree it's unlikely that WotC will try to change Magic to that degree, but I think they could, and that it would solve a lot of the problems the game has.

>>50812240
According to SJWs the cast of the new Ghostbusters is attractive.

WotC has Terese Nielsen and Winona Nelson ready to draw a gorgeous Liliana and excuse any shit with her being drawn by a woman (a lesbian too in Nielsen's case), but they don't let it happen. Hell they made Karla Ortiz make Defiant Necromancer thicker than she originally intended at the last second and it ruined the composition of her image.

>>50812253
We don't do enough to crucify the people who encourage people to open packs. Sharks who take advantage to relieve new players of their good cards are allowed to run rampant.

Every time someone says, "I love that new pack smell" they're not playing Limited. They're behaving like morons.

Basically, we're too afraid to clean house. The community and company is not willing to purge itself of all the horrible people that infest this game regardless of how long they've been playing the game. And because they've been so afraid of maintaining the status quo, they are losing all the reasonable people who have been too disgusted to stay.

>>50797339
Got a $500 Christmas bonus. What deck should I build?

>>50812316
Overwatch Lootboxes - go support a company that deserves your money more.

>>50812232
No shit. MTGO would be made in the current century, MTGO would be directly competing with Hearthstone instead of being a pipedream, Gatherer would be fixed, Guay would be doing things beyond basics, SJW shit wouldn't be in the game (or it would be tastefully done instead of going down the diversity checklist and being an obvious virtue signalling) and reddit wouldn't be the official forum .

>>50812316
None, $500 won't get you shit in this game. Get a gun, ammo and a cleaning kit and get ready for the upcoming civil/race war

>>50812316
Preemptively I'm going to tell anybody who actually tells you to spend money on this game to go fuck themselves.

And if you're some Wizards shill, you can tell your supervisor that their bosses have given this game blood poisoning.

>>50812350
But I already have an AR-15 with 5000 rounds and a 9mm with a 1000 rounds. I just wanted to waste money on expensive cardboard

>>50812382

Computer parts then

>>50812316
Buy Conan or Arkham Horror LCG.
Or a PS4, or wait for the Nintendo Switch.
If you absolutely need it to be Magic, build Gheist or Vial Smasher for Duel Commander.

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>>50812330
>Blizzard
>" Company that deserves your money more "
>The same company that made cardgames look like a fucking joke in terms of esport with Hearthstone and its blatant powercreep, simplistic card design and LOLOLOLOL RANDOM
>The same company that, god knows how, succesfully blown up their entire warcraft series by creating WoW and if that wasn't enough, they even succeeded to turn WoW into complete shit
>The same company that turned Diablo, one of their coolest series, worse than actual stock market
>The same company that tried to make a dumbed down version of LoL ( like it was fucking possible ) and dared calling it competitive
>The same company that, when vomitting a shitload of shitty content and games and slowly killed their games one by one, let Starcraft die to a miserable fate and is now considered by far one of the deadest multiplayer game ever released due to lack of support
>The same company that turned from committing players and fantasy lovers into a bunch of money-sucking machines.

If any company " deserves " anything out there it's certainly not Blizzard.

>>50812448
It was a fucking joke. Of course Blizzard doesn't deserve your money but they certainly deserve it more than WotC.

>>50812448
>Starcraft
Thank God the fans are making FOSS Brood War with updated graphics

>the only place that has regular modern days has them on a work night
>everywhere doesn't have enough modern support
Why? A few years ago, Modern was the rage around here. Was Modern no longer being represented in PTs the killing blow?
I really want to play. I don't want to keep up financially with a rotating format. I don't want to play something casual like EDH.
Where do you guys play now a days?

>>50812604
Modern became casual as soon as the PT was removed.
You are playing a casual format now.

>>50812647
>casual format with a GP

>>50812604
>Was Modern no longer being represented in PTs the killing blow?
It was this
http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/feature/banned-and-restricted-announcement-2015-01-19

Cruise and Dig proved that wizards doesn't test for formats beyond standard and limited. They should have known that graveyards fill up quick in good formats. So players knew that Wizards didnt give a shit about making sure cards fit the modern power level.

Birthing Pod getting axed showed that no deck was safe. It was only a matter of time before the next big thing would get cut down, to get replaced with the next big thing. It was getting the yugioh treatment and no one wants to throw down for a new deck every 6 months because "muh format diversity."

Players were happy when modern got dropped from PT because that meant no Wizards oversight or gutting shit for "muh format diversity"

>>50812722
GPs are Magic conventions not Pro tournaments.

>>50812791
Why is deck diversity bad? If one deck wins every tournament then something is wrong. I suppose banning instead of providing more tools could be heavy handed but I don't think the intention are bad

How have wizard dropped modern if they're still in charge of the ban list?

>best modern thread in ages
>it's all about how fucking awful wizards has become

There is 0 fucking excuse for any card to be more than 10 dollars. It costs wizards no more money to print goyf or force or underground sea or black lotus than it does to print a basic mountain. 10$ packs and limited print runs are ducking absurd and I guarantee that if they did an unlimited print run of cards with regular prices at actual acceptable rarities, it would sell better than MM or EM and it would reinvigorate so many people to get back in te game and draw in so many more new players.
>inb4 poorfag
I've spent good money on legacy and modern but I understand that it's a sunk cost. I have 0 qualms with wizards mass printing cards to make them more accessible because when the main appeal to magic is it as a game, and nobody's playing, it becomes pointless.
Wizard also fails to understand that old cards suddenly become less valuable because there are more of them. Old LEDS would still go for a good amount because they're rarer and older, the card itself would be easier to get.
Also stop making stupidly efficient creatures, id rather have cards that you can build decks around than just efficient cards you can jam into the best midrange colors. I'll take delver over from flayed any day of the week

>>50812899
Most of the issues came from fact that the decks that got axed didn't make up a significant enough portion of the meta to really warrant a ban
Nobody was asking for a twin ban, but it got one anyway because the deck had been around forever and wizards wanted to shake things up.
Pod may or may not have deserved a ban depending on who you ask but it's fair to say it was encroaching on standard design space. Eggs got the axe for mostly logistical reasons but was somewhat warranted. Eldrazi was eldrazi.
Bloom was probably fine though
My point is just that they were banning decks that weren't encroaching on the formats diversity simply to change the format for diversity, and look what happened

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Currently trying to make a deck for my cardfu pic related.

Basically just simic nonsense moving counters around, loving the interactions of power conduit with the rest of the deck. Any tips for this budget modern mess?

4x Breeding Pool
4x Chronozoa
4x Cloudfin Raptor
3x Dispel
4x Ferropede
4x Forest
3x Gilder Bairn
4x Gyre Sage
4x Hands of Binding
4x Hangarback Walker
4x Hinterland Harbor
10x Island
4x Negate
4x Power Conduit

>>50813193
Do you have any idea what mess you've stepped in? Do you get paid to post this shit to derail things here? Or do you not care to read what we've been talking about.

>>50804956
Linear aggro decks lose to cards not decks, that's their weakness. Just add a few cards to your sideboard and all of a sudden you beat them.

Let's say we actually post this thread somewhere where someone important sees it.

I've spent a long time bitching and maybe it's time to send it to someone who actually has the power to change things.

Real talk, will they just utterly disregard it simply because it came from 4chan? Or will someone actually realize that shit is bad no matter what their stupid attendance numbers tell them.

>>50813322
what if you don't draw those cards in time

>>50813327
>Or will someone actually realize that shit is bad no matter what their stupid attendance numbers tell them.

They wouldn't do standard showdown if numbers WEREN'T shit. People have been bitching about MTGO online for a solid decade at least, and wizards hasn't done shit. Gatherer's been fucked for 3 years. Wizards doesn't listen to you unless you're a PoC on tumblr sucking their dick. Look at Trick Jarrett, he should have been sacked on the spot for such a shit PR move.

>>50813327
>Let's say we actually post this thread somewhere where someone important sees it.
It would be a better idea to compile the complaints into a sort of petition instead of making people read through a thread

The 4chan stigma is real though, we don't really have any influence unless we're doxxing people and starting flamewars on other sites

>>50810365
>I'm poor so magic is bad, the post.

>>50813322
Which would be nice except a lot of those cards are in underplayed colors
Cage is pretty much the only exception
Not to mention the linear aggro decks really aren't being stopped by board cards like they should be. People are beating cage all the time

>>50809240

Westvale Abbey. Laugh at their boardwipes and hope they don't have a path ready.

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>>50813395
So ... what you're saying is that we should DDOS wotc's website ...

>>50813438
That won't create the effect we want, so no

What I'm saying is 4chan doesn't have the tools to accomplish what we want

What we have are tools for making people butthurt, not fixing the direction an incompetent company is taking

>>50813327
They're not going to listen because this place is synonymous with /pol/ and you know that's never going to happen
Even the MTG reddits are fucking dead, this place sees more discussion that there

>>50813327
They'll disregard it because it criticizes them, not because it necessarily came from 4chan. But when they need an excuse to say WHY they're disregarding it, the 4chan option will be used since it's so effective.

threads like these remind me of why I come to this shithole of a website.

>>50813052
The problem with twin is that it had no bad matchups matches and was a 6- 10 card package that could be thrown into a URx deck with no downside. While I don't necessarily agree with the ban (I would have banned deceiver exarch, still leaving multiple twin pieces that are boltable) I certainly understand it. At the same time, the twin meta share had started to drop as people learned how to play against it and started to sideboard heavier for it. There's also the rumor that was floating around during Eldrazi Winter that Twin was Eldrazi's worst matchup and banned only so Eldrazi could show up on camera and take the meta by storm.

Bloom was because of one cheating asshole and his turn 2 wins on camera. Everyone saw that ban coming. However, at the time of the actual banning, people had learned to play against it, much like twin. Did Bloom deserve a ban? Probably, but it also could have stayed just fine.

WotC also doesn't give a crap about anything other than Standard and their precious limited environments. So they're going to continue to give us lip service and Modern Masters (seriously, whoever thought that MM should have a "fun and engaging draft environment" should be dragged out to the street and shot) while letting Modern either and die a slow, agonizing death. Something will be made to replace it, and the cycle will begin anew. Hopefully, with some new and better direction after MaRo cryogenically freezes himself to be revived later, as the harbinger of the end times.

>>50812382
$500 gets you AT BEST a tier 3 deck in Modern, a tier 10 deck in Legacy and NOTHING Vintage. Just play Commander/Standard/Pauper.

>>50813395
That's a reasonable response. But I'm not going to be compiling anything. It has to be pure and unedited. If these people are too ignorant and stupid to ignore their biases to see the facts among the seething hate and rage, then we are in the wrong hands anyways.

I understand there is a right way to do things and I respect above most other things doing things right.

This shit's going up on Reddit in the next few minutes unless you have anything else to add. I'm going to use a non-throwaway account too. Let's see what they think.

>>50813814
>But I'm not going to be compiling anything. It has to be pure and unedited.
Just copy the important posts and string them together into a coherent discussion, you don't really need to paraphrase

If you're just going to share with Reddit, posting the whole thread is fine though

>>50813814
>Non-throwaway account.
First of all
>GB2Reddit
Secondly if you put time and effort into that account and you actually give a quarter of a fuck about it, do not let the asshole mods that shadowban people see that shit man.

>>50813884
Also make sure to post the archive not the actual thread in case this needs to be brought up at some point, we never know.

>>50813775
dredge is around 400 but it'll probably be banned in January.

Real talk. If Wizards released new sets as LCGs would that save Standard? They could include recommended cubes for limited and then only SCG and middlemen really get hurt. Modern would exist in some strange hell between both worlds but I think it's the sort of sacrifice that has to be made.

>>50814064
More than likely sadly. And just like with Legacy Dredge oscillates with the amount of GY hate in SBs.

>>50814068
>Standard.
Dude fuck off.

>>50813771
>There's also the rumor that was floating around during Eldrazi Winter that Twin was Eldrazi's worst matchup

Other way around. Twin couldn't do anything against Eldrazi. ThoughtNazi regularly sat down turn 2 and would 2 for 1 you (assuming you path him since he'd tank Bolt) unless you had remand. Even then, you were delaying the inevitable. Drowner of Hope would come down on curve after thought nazi and just tap your exarch/pestermite in response to you playing Twin. Plus the deck ran simian spirit guide so you could plop down a turn 1 chalice at one and force twin/most decks to scoop.

>>50813771
That's totally fair, but it wasn't that large of a meta game share. I hated playing against it, but I hate wizards policy of erasing decks they don't like because they can't fucking balance their game. They always talk about how they don't want to make decks unplayable and then remove all their key card and make it unplayable. Pod is a minor exception but that's literally the only one.
The eldrazi was such a fucking catastrophe though, I hate this new fucking idea of card design, and they blatantly went against their philosophy that colorless can do everything but worse. This idea that any archetype can be forced by slapping on some hyper efficient effect to a wellstatted creature is fucking annoying, and it only gets worse in older formats because it becomes trivial to deal with their color costs. They don't make interesting cards that you can design decks around. There's no more delvers or pyromancers, everytging has turned into a bland mishmash of colors with good effects and it's not fun. None of the cards are interesting or flavorful anymore. Traft, hunstmaster, delver, they were interesting and memorable cards. Huntsmaster was efficient but it required some workaround. Gotf was simply efficient and required you to still play different card types and didn't essentially let you ponder and was vanilla. Glauber is a ducking abomination of card design because it's so stupidly ducking efficient for absolutely no cost and this farce that a card is somehow harder to play because it has two colors in its cost even though every set prints fucking dual lands is an absurd farce. They need to get their heads out of their asses and realize that there's plenty of design space left to make interesting cards, which try fucking squandered with energy. I'm so fucking furious and they're reaching hearthstone levels of stupid, where the community can design better than they can.
Fuck Maro, bring back Richard. All I ask

For Christmas I want MTG I started with back.

>>50814331
>glauber
Flayer
Fuck phoneposting

>>50814317
I was just stating the rumor at the time, but that is interesting. I remember several website and groups saying they were testing the Eldrazi/Twin matchup, but I never remember seeing anything that came out. It makes sense, when I think about it for a minute and remember what the hekl was in Eldrazi at the time. (I tried not to pay attention, and the regulars at the lgs had a gentleman's agreement not to play Eldrazi)

>>50814331
Richard Garfield is ashamed of what Magic has become. He would (probably) rather let it die than continue in it's its current state.

>>50814632
Which is a shame because the sets he designs are always great
Maro has been such a bane to the game and it's a shame to see Richard step back

>>50814068
>If Wizards released new sets as LCGs would that save Standard?
Sort of. They would also have to print cards worth playing, again, too.

If they switched to an LCG distribution model for new sets they could also do it for Modern/Eternal Masters, which would help those formats immensely, even if they can't get rid of the reserved list.

The real problems are how this would impact limited formats and card stores.

For limited you could just include instructions for making a cube with the LCG expansions. This would let you easily have drafts, both with new sets and with weird combinations of sets. Sealed (which is shit anyways) would die off.

Large game stores that sell magic alongside other card games, comics, board games, rpg supplements, models, etc, would probably welcome the change because the LCG supplements will make them more income than selling packs.

Smaller stores that focused on selling singles would take a huge hit, though, and might die off or be forced to expand their market to sell other kinds of games.

https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/5jo99e/a_town_hall_discussion_on_wizards_and_the_state/

Throwaway account takes 24 hours to activate. Just wanted to get it done.

>>50814791
LCG in an interesting idea, but it eliminates fouls which are still pretty sweet and I can't see a way to do foils unless each lcg box came with a foil booster which

>>50814814
Prepare to get your ass reamed and your post down toes into oblivion
As much as "Reddit fucking shits" is a meme, their attitudes towards differing ideas is staggeringly childish

>>50814890
If you look at my history, I tried to speak reason in the past and I've given up using the site for discussion. I don't need this account.

>>50814875
>I can't see a way to do foils unless each lcg box came with a foil booster
Sell the expansions with a foil booster (a bonus, if you will), and then sell foil boosters as a separate product, as well

Cardboard crack addicts will still have packs to open, fnm bling lords can still make their decks all shiny, and people who just want to play the fucking game don't get hurt in the crossfire

>>50814791
>>50814875
One soloution here is to release random foil packs that can be used in sealed/limited play.

>>50814132
>More than likely sadly. And just like with Legacy Dredge oscillates with the amount of GY hate in SBs.
At least for the people who bought into it, it can be made into a legacy deck fairly easily and on the budget side too. The deck really doesn't deserve to be axed since it folds to hate, but I doubt Wizards is capable of actually having a ban that doesn't involve axing the archetype based on their previous bans.

MTG Finance is what is killing MTG.
Wizards just needs to let give up on pleasing investors and make their game actually affordable.

>>50814632
> I remember several website and groups saying they were testing the Eldrazi/Twin matchup, but I never remember seeing anything that came out

Pretty much the only way for twin to beat eldrazi is to pack so much removal that it actually gets worse vs the other matchups. Even then, Eldrazi gets access to the same shit.

>>50815110
That was true back in 2010. The current ream of card designs is MUCH worse now than it was back then. That is a far more fundamental issue. After all when you get sets like BFZ and Kaladesh where almost all of the cards are unplayable outside of standard and even then most of them only fit into one or two deck types, the game goes right to hell.

>>50814331
Garfield will never come back. He doesn't want to and i DO NOT blame him at all. If i saw what i made become this heap of filth then I'd want to leave it behind forever. After all he has made more games since he left WOTC. A few are even pretty fun.

>>50815110
But anon, kaladesh is affordable

1. Chandra $20
2. Torrential Gearhulk $12
3. Looter Scooter $10
4. UR Fast land $8
5. Marvel $6
6. Green gearhulk $6
7. Nissa $5
8. Black Gearhulk $4
9. Pooinloo UR Walker $4
10. Skysoveriegn $3.50

Standard's never been cheaper! It's practically a steal!

>>50815486
Go back a block. Tell us what Innistrad cards cost. It's disgusting that you're not looking at the whole picture like that. You sound like a fucking shill if you aren't actually one.

Magic is dead! DEAAAAAAD!!!!!

Now where the fuck have I heard this tirade before? Jesus, this entire fucking thread.

>>50815588
kill yourself

>>50815570
>You sound like a fucking shill if you aren't actually one.
I'm pretty sure he was being sarcastic

Either way, it's not necessarily about how expensive the most expensive cards are, but how expensive the most important cards are.

The theory is that as sets become weaker overall, decks are filled with more and more expensive cards (and there's fewer decks to choose from) which causes average deck price to increase.

In reality Kaladesh standard is cheaper than Khans/BFZ standard was, and about on par with INN/RTR.

>>50815588
They aren't wrong, but it is a tired discussion. We did it during Eldrazi winter, we did it when Twin was banned, we did it when Pod was baned, we did it when Dragon's Maze came out, etc.

>>50815588
I can't believe any company would pay people to trawl through Reddit and 4chan to defend their shitty practices. It would be ridiculous if it wasn't actually effective at disrupting the conversation - like how spam and telemarketing wouldn't happen if it didn't actually work.

The community deserves this level of dis-communication. Every time we talk about this it gets shot down, the people having it leave, then when it comes up again another crop of reasonable people get angry and then they leave. And in the meanwhile, the community fills with more and more useless people.

>>50815729
92% of people say they trust peer review over advertising. When you take that into consideration shills seem like obvious assets.

>>50812287
>Terese Nielsen
She still works there?
Fuck I wouldn't be half as mad at all of the shit WotC is pulling if they at least threw me a bone(r) and had people like Nielsen and Guay do art in standard sets.

>>50815729
>like how spam and telemarketing wouldn't happen if it didn't actually work.

Oh man, you are making some wildly optimistic assumptions here.

>>50815103
>Print cards like Rest in Peace
>ban modern dredge again anyways
This better not happen

>>50817303
shit RiP isn't even best card against dredge, surgical extraction is something they can't interact with and slows them down tremendously at instant speed and can be played on the draw.

WotC should make Tempest Block draft the new PT format.

>>50804455
Shadows changed the meta quite a bit when people finally found out that prized amalgam is good and made a dredge deck that's not fringe (vengevine). When a set comes out that actually contains a few good modern cards or someone popular plays a really rogue deck and does well the meta will slightly shift again. If you are expecting a huge swing in every top deck after every set release then modern isn't your format. I really don't blame you though, you've only been in through 1 block change.

>>50815486
These are the money cards in the set?
Christ I was going to go draft tomorrow for some ez prizes and to check out the new set but now I might not even bother, I'd rather keep the cash.

>>50797339
>that shitty beginers stay out cancer is gone from the op
Praise jesus

>>50813775
You can get Modern Dredge, BG COCO Elves, Legacy LEDless Dredge, Legacy Burn or Legacy Affinity for $500 so long as you don't buy at StarCity.

Just finished my grixis delver deck. This is my first real competitive deck. What should I expect in the transition from kitchen table to playing in stores? Any first timer mistakes?

>>50817945
The main reason these cards are worth so little is because everyone is chasing Kaladesh Inventions.
Plus the only card that guy mentioned that's used in standard is Smuggler Copter

>Modern
Ugh, grow up already. Lets talk about Standard.

>>50814702
>neurotic narcissist jew ruins everything
/pol/ is always right.

>>50816060
Honestly this. Peer reviews that ARENT shills are usually the most trustworthy or at least give you the most clarity on a particular product. Even if they are Biased.

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>>50818224
Can you actually play? Do you know how priority, the stack and turn phases work? Did you play kitchen table delver? Why did you choose this deck? It's not very good in this meta and is incredibly unforgiving of mistakes while at the same time incapable of free wins. Not a good starter deck. It takes a player who can leverage every bit of value from every card to put up consistent results. Not trying to make you feel bad or make it out to be done deck only geniuses can pilot. But it's important to know you just might not win as often as you might have had you tried a deck with a lower skill floor.

>>50816060
And fucking everyone here thinks they're redpilled if they say everyone is a shill. Has anyone found actual evidence of companies doing this here, or fucking anywhere for that matter?

I'm sure it exists by some small extent but you fucks think that there's a majority at this point.

>>50818686
The harder the deck the more fun to play it imho, especially if the difficulty involves multiple lines of play.

Imho try it on xmage for a bit to get the basic interactions down, the rest will come from practice and experience

>>50815729
I'm not who you're raving at, but did you consider for a minute that people can and should be allowed to disagree with you?

>>50818708
Extreme cynicism and "above-it-all"-ness is a good way to never have to think about whether what you say or think is wrong or misguided (and if so by what magnitude)

>>50799186
>>50799919
>>50799946
>>50801301
kek

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>>50818224
welcome to team grixis! i can't say how playing in a shop will be different but just try to get in as many games as possible.
one tip i have is to remember that you can use thought scour and fetchlands to interact with whatever cards have on top from serum visions or that you see from a delver trigger.
Another is a habit that i'm currently working on, which is to briefly check my graveyard every turn so that it doesn't become obvious when i have a tasigur or snapcaster in hand.

>>50820025
You best be runnin a singleton rise/fall for extra spicy grixis
>hymn that isn't dead lategame
>snappy plays for days

Honorable mentions to grixis charm and sullys command

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So i'm new to magic was got this the other day.

Can I not use it on legacy? Is it not set up to play Legacy format for 1 vs 1?

>>50820775
AE Is designed for 4 people. Its cards are legal in legacy but it's a kitchen table format so play it however you want.

>>50820775
This entire post gives me cancer

>>50818224
Play grixis control instead. Best colors in magic and you get to play power 9 in modern, what's not to love?

>>50818686
I have a working knowledge of the game. I know how the stack works and the vast majority of basic interactions. It's the more complicated rulings that I'm unfamiliar with. I picked it for a few reasons, I loved delver of secrets after picking up a play set for a burn deck I made. Also grixis colors have my favorite types of cards to play.

>>50798537
>dredge and burn
babby's first modern
:O)

>>50820025
Ahh I hadn't put together I could always thoughtscour or crack a fetch to get rid of my delver reveal. Also the checking my graveyard is something I already picked up. It was pretty annoying that my friends always knew when tasigur was coming, but then again I was broadcasting it like a chump

>tfw smash control with Bogle
>he get salty in my chat

:O)
^^^happy bogle face

>>50823740
You only need to know your decks interactions. If you have any questions a judge will be there to assist

But for general tips; bring a bottle of water and some cash. While youre there, buy a booster (try a set you've never played before) and help support your FLGS (don't use your card vendor fees are a bitch). Pick up your trash, and push in your chair. So ask before you touch your opponent's cards. Just a quick "mind if I see that?" Is usually fine. And most importantly is have fun. Be kinda awkward if you there by yourself with no friends, but relax and remember it's a game

>>50823781
Please don't ever post again

>>50823653
meta is way too fast for grixis control, if you look at the recent top 8's the only deck that makes it is the pyromancer one

>>50818686
hey that was my shitpost, how did it end up modern general?
burn is a deck for 12 year olds

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>>50797339
Since modern has kinda gone down the tunes it's become play the top 4 or kitchen table. I play alot of legacy so I'm going kitchen table this week. With the success of copter in legacy I've decided to Convert standard mardu vehicles to modern. By convert I mean took out bad removal and put in good removal ie, bolt, path, and dismember. Enjoy

Mardu vehicles (modern)

>creatures
3x nerd ape
4x toolcraft
4x inspector
4x scrounger
3x motorist
2x depala
2x pia

>artifacts
2x Key
4x copter
3x fleetwheel
1x skyship

>spells
4x bolt
2x path
2x Dismember

>lands
4x r/w fast
4x b/w fast
4x hub
4x Mountain
3x plains
1x Swamp

So far it's pretty quick and copter proves to be quite useful. Who knows maybe one day it will become tier 2 but for now it's the most fun I've had in kitchen table modern in a while.

>>50824895
Fuck me tubes* not tunes. Not sure what that means

>>50824110
Corey's list is doing amazing. What are you talking about?

Unban everything

if certain decks become a problem print cards targeting them in particular.

Stop the creature power creep and cancerous non combo tactics.
P.S. Lantern control was the last "true" deck since Ad nauseam came out.


Also suck my dick

>>50824942
sure, except it's not.

>>50820122
This man knows whatup

>>50824942
Ex-Grixis Control player, switched over to Delver for now

The meta is extremely mean to Grixis Control right NOW, the days of waiting for Cryptic to get online and only really having Snaps and Tasigurs as threats is very shoddy

You need cheap counters like Spell Pierce and Snare, a lot of low cmc threats and you need to be able to change from being the control deck to the aggro deck consistently

I like Corey's list and it was a good call for that tournament but, in the open meta right now, Delver is the superior choice

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Any D&T players here? I need some spicy sideboard techs to meme people with.

>>50827474
Worship
Odric, Lunarch Marshal
Gut Shot
Runed Halo
Jotun Grunt

>>50827474
Play Legacy.

>>50827397
What match ups are you talking about where control is getting shafted right now besides Tron? I'm debating going back to delver but my local meta is full of infect/affinity and other small creature decks that I've been doing very well against with all my removal.

>>50828481
>What match ups are you talking about where control is getting shafted right now besides Tron?
Dredge

>>50828383
>pay at least 2k for a deck
No thanks

>>50829137
poor?

>>50829137
The only expensive card is Rishadan Port.

>>50829137
Buy more money.

>>50828541
Fair. That is pretty non existent at my LGS.

>>50829247
Was referring to legacy in general, but even with the cards I have right now It'd still run me a little over a grand for D&T, not to mention that Legacy is dead in my area so it's probably not a wise investment.

>>50823773
>my friends always knew when x is coming but then again I was broadcasting it like a chump
i am a chump
teach me your ways
t. combo player