Why did Third Edition rename Thieves to Rogues?

Thieves are villains.

Rogues are "antiheroes".

>>50781693
Thief implies your main profession is stealing. Rogue doesn't limit in this way.

Given a thief/rogue can be a lot of non-thief things and still play as a member of that class with full validity, the broader name fit.

>>50781693

Why is magic so ingrained to a lot of classes nowadays?

What ever happened to good old low fantasy?

Friggin Rangers and Rogues are actin' like mages, ain't right, man.

>>50781962
5E acts on the idea that most people competent enough to use some form of magic will, as they weren't able to figure out how to make fighters and rogues and the like supernaturally good without being spellcasters and at the same time not complicating the shit out of the writing.

Which to be fair, in a setting where magic is as easily learned as it is in most D&D (where an education, the act of merely having faith or having the confidence to will things through yourself will grant you some rudimentary magical potential), anyone who is capable of learning magic probably does at least a little. It'd be like getting through life in modern times without a car: You can do it, but you're either limiting yourself in how you can get by or you're doing a lot of extra work to work around the need for it.

>>50781693
Why did your mom name you Gaylord?

>>50781780
This. It's the same reason the Fighter is the Fighter, not the Soldier. Keeping class names somewhat generalised allows for a greater versatility in writing characters.

The rogue is a good example - the skillset of the rogue is excellent for a thief, but could also be useful for the investigator tracking him, or for the elderly old locksmith being consulted by the town guard after the string of robberies.

>>50781693
Rogue is more of a general term. There are Rogues who are Thieves, but also Rogues who aren't. Similarly, there are Fighters who aren't Men-at-Arms. The conventional wisdom on what to call the "leader dude who isn't a Paladin" changed between 3e and 4e, from Marshal to Warlord, but I wasn't really convinced by either version.

This issue occurs whenever a class is supposed to represent a general archetype of potentially real person. Doesn't really apply to prestige classes or magical classes, despite the obvious truth that "Bibliomancer" is an objectively superior name for the Wizard class. Or maybe, instead of Sorcerer and Wizard, Magic User and Freaky-Powerful Book Nerd.

Also, did you notice that when Thief 1 and 2 came out Garrett used a sword and ADnD Thieves had proficiency with swords, but when Thief 3 came out Garrett used a dagger and 3e Rogues didn't have proficiency with swords?

>>50781962
>Rogues are actin' like mages, ain't right, man

The Gray Mouser wants a word.

>>50786672
4e core Warlord was actually called Marshal in the Essentials releases I think (since they probably planned to add an essentials warlord).

>>50786694
That makes sense, because I remember some commentary somewhere saying that they felt Warlord was a broader, more appropriate term. I still don't think it's great for what it is, which is basically a co-ordinator for a very small group of combatants. Warlord implies someone who could have a significant impact on an army, and 4e DnD over-zealously purged rules like that. Captain might be better.

>>50785913
Because I give all other homosexuals +2/+2 and double strike.

>>50786744
Technically, warlord had a lot of "everybody who can see you" powers, which would be ridiculous in mass combat, but the book did go out of its way to say that they should probably be restricted to a reasonable number.

>>50786672
>despite the obvious truth that "Bibliomancer" is an objectively superior name for the Wizard class
But that's not true because not all of them carry books and they aren't all Diviners as -mancer implies.

Magic User was better.

Because "thief" is much more limiting than "rogue", which also includes "thief".

>>50781693
>Why did Third Edition rename Thieves to Rogues?

In AD&D, "Rogue" was the broad category that included Thieves, Bards, and Assassins.

>>50781693
>Why did Third Edition rename Thieves to Rogues?
WoTC doesn't like players being not nice.

>>50790025
Explain the Book of Vile Darkness

Some WotC guy on their podcast answered this and said that they had heard a lot of experiences where the party's thief, because they were called a thief, brainfarted and started going all kender on their party, I.E stealing shit because nothing else was happening and all that. They claimed that by changing the name, they reduced that issue and removed the association that if you're a thief, you just have to steal from someone.

I have no idea how true that is. But that's the official answer, I guess.

>>50790067
WoTC likes NPCs being not nice.