Warhammer 40,000 General

First for Alpha Legion.

>>50781303
>I tend to trust /tg/ about 40k more than your local neckbeard, but as someone who doesn't know a lot about the hobby, they're better about explaining it than I imagine we are.

I mean you're describing variance, first and foremost /tg/ is super biased to be negative, if something isn't tournament competitive we call is shit and cry about how big bad evil GW has shit in our sundae, then we go take our marine demi-battle-companies to a local store with all our free rhinos and complain how AoS squatted fantasy.

On average a random in a local store will be much less...opinionated than us, and they might even admit that warp talons are super cool looking and would be fun to paint.

The fact is we can explain the hobby, but teaching a game requires visual stimulation which a character limited and anonymous image board can't provide. Hence in person demos and/or youtube tutorials.

What people here forget is that just because something isn't tournament viable doesn't mean it's unplayable, not everyone is WAAC and in fact most people don't play tournaments.

>>50781367
you're doing alpharius' work anon, I love you

How does a Stormsurge fare against a Knight? I'm debating getting one but I haven't seen them on tabletop before.

>>50781368
That's exactly what I meant. If you're a player looking to git gud and WAAC, /tg/ is the better place to be than GW or a FLGS.

If you actually want to discuss the game (and not argue the whole time) and have fun, this isn't exactly the best place.

Gentlemen. I challenge you to make the emperor's children rapture battalion good.

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>Orks are a melee race!
>I2
>s3
>ap-

>>50781382
poorly, the stormsurge is easily the most bloated and over costed model in the whole game

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Counts as Oblits. Y/N?

>>50781391
what if we made world bearers the army instead, it's just like the emperor's children except with relevant stat bonuses that aren't to inituative

see the word eaters are among the best in the supplement and there's no law saying you have to play EC

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>>50781397

t. taufag

>>50781368
>I mean you're describing variance, first and foremost /tg/ is super biased to be negative, if something isn't tournament competitive we call is shit and cry about how big bad evil GW has shit in our sundae, then we go take our marine demi-battle-companies to a local store with all our free rhinos and complain how AoS squatted fantasy.
THIS. This so much.

I've seen multiple fluffy, fun, or even newfag lists that weren't that bad, and anons just straight up said to use the most WAAC or optimized units or options. Just ain't right.

>>50781402
Do they have the right base size?

>>50781402
sure, why not

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>>50781413

>>50781402
More Chaos bits and some green stuff maybe and they'd look good. Much better than a mass of chewing gum with armor stuck to it.

>>50781409
Do you mean world eaters, or word bearers?

>>50781397
I think the stormsurge could easily be fixed, just give it a couple meltaguns and a multimelta

>>50781397
Care to give a reason as to why?

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>>50781419
Yup same size by default. 40mm.

>>50781439
Yeah, and t9.

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Gonna repost since I updated at the end of the last thread. So I'm taking Jacobus and the Sisters Banner to give buffs to the Guard blobs for fun, but I'm not sure what else to put in their unit since I don't have many points left. I put a single Multi-Melta before and anon laughed. I really just want that unit to be around to buff the blobs, so maybe a Hospitaller in case the vehicle blows up?

[Inquisition]
Coteaz

[Ministorum Delegation]
Jacobus
Sororita Command Squad, Sacred Banner, Immolator with Multi-Melta

[Imperial Guard CAD]
Company Command Squad, 2 Plasma Guns, Lascannon, Astropath, Chimera
2x Priest

Veterans, 3 Plasma Guns, Chimera
Platoon Command Squad, 2 Grenade Launchers, Autocannon
3x Infantry Squads, Autocannon, Grenade Launcher
40 Conscripts

[Emperor's Wrath]
Company Command Squad, 2 Plasma Guns, Lascannon, Astropath, Chimera
Engiseer, 2 Servitors

2x Basilisk 250
Manticore 170
2x Wyvern 130

1990

>>50781393
They have no idea how to make Orkz work. In fluff they have terrible tech that works, somehow. Weapons that tend to blow up in their faces more often than not. Bloodlust that can only be rivaled by Khorne. Strength to crush a man to bits easily. And seemingly endless numbers.

And yet they somehow got all of that wrong. We can't shoot. We can't assault. Our vehicles suck. Our weapons nearly never work as intended. Our best unit are bikers and they used to rule the meta back in 6th. Now they're pretty bad too.

There's no winning.

Bring back the S4. I2 is fine, I suppose. Orkz aren't very smart. Bring back Mob Rule so Leadership isn't such a fuckstick for Orkz. I wouldn't mind Shootas being S3, Assault 4 or something like that. The whole 'barrel of dice' thing was the best part of Orkz.

>>50781430
yes

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>>50781402

>>50781453
Yeah if it was even T7 it would solve it's main problem. Being wounded by boltguns and lasguns is rather shit for a suit like that.

>>50781465
looks like nipples

gw give me sob

ME WANT SEX GIRLS

>>50781465
He's computed some shit.

>>50781454
I'm that Anon. I guess if you're taking them for the banner that's an...okay choice? I guess? But that's a bit of a price to pay for a single gimmick for your babbyflab guardsmen. +1 attack isn't going to really help.

>>50781457
Bs1 across the board, balance by number of shots instead.

Same with ws, but balance by number of chops.

>>50781457
All Ork weapons should have both Rending and Gets Hot by default.

>>50781489
>>50781490
I wouldn't mind this at all. Anything that plays off of their 'luck' is much better than the unfluffy garbage we have right now. Also, MANz need so much rebalancing it's ridiculous.

>>50781490

Kek, this is not the worst idea I've seen for fixing Orks.

>>50781477

What about making it a vehicle? :^)

>>50781485
Well, it's +1 Attack, Fearless, Counter-Attack, the Priests in the unit give Re-Rolls to hit first turn of combat and War Hymns give Re-Rolls to wound.

It's not amazing no, but all those pieces working together to give the blobs tons of attacks if they get charged, and the staying power to not run away. That's the fun part, hopefully.

>>50781489
Ork Boy, 6 points

1 1 4 4 1 2 12 7 5+

slugga is pistol with 6 shots
shoota is assault 18

>>50781503
Wouldn't that make it 1000% worse?

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>>50781382
They are not anti-knight weapons. You can grab a D-version and have a bit of fun running around charging vehicles, though.

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>tfw the Maulerfiend buff from the draft FAQ didn't make it into the September update
Looks like Magma Cutters are back to being inferior to lashes.

Threadly reminder that Walkers are not Vehicles.

>>50781518
>12 attacks

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>>50781527
>D-missiles
>S:D gun
>S10 cannon
>not anti-knight

It's a GMC so you can even shoot its anti-infantry missiles at the infantry while its missiles and heavy ordnance total the Knight.

>>50781518
>Ork Boy, 6 points
>1 1 4 4 1 2 12 7 5+
>slugga is pistol with 6 shots
>shoota is assault 18
Jesus christ Anon, what are you smoking.

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>>50781339
ITT: Talk about your dudes. What makes your dudes YOUR dudes?

I'll start:
>The Apostate Kings are a group of traitor Space Marines fully devoted to Slaanesh. Led by the charismatic and enigmatic Apostle known only as The Prophet, the soon-to-traitor Gold Crusaders turned from the light of the God-Emperor after the fall of their homeworld to a massive Eldar incursion. Lost in the void and broken, The Prophet offered them retribution against the Xenos horror - for a price.

>Now, the Apostate Kings are fully devoted servants of Slaanesh, and focus their worship in the form of extreme martial perfection, terror-tactics, and of hedonistic excess. Their preferred methods of assault are lighting-assaults and raptor tactics, dropping down from the sky in Thunderbirds and the rare Storm Eagle Gunship and hunting their quarry like massive birds of prey on jump packs, bikes, or Rhino carriers. Among their number are large numbers of the creatures known as Warp Talons, all of them long since twisted into half-daemons of Slaanesh, who often operate in massive hunting packs that rend through enemy weak points like a hot knife through animal fat with gleeful abandon. While they count the abominations known as Noise Marines among their number, they are not the average line trooper - if the Kings even have such a thing - so much as a small, moderately respected cadre of specialists among the Chapter, and often hold down fixed positions and act as a twisted anvil that the hordes of Raptors, Talons, and Armored troops drive the foe mercilessly into.

>Their preferred foe above all others is the xenos Eldar, specifically Craftworld Eldar, though they have also shown a preference for Imperial Shrine worlds and Forge Worlds - the latter likely due to strategic necessity, the former likely ideological - yet reserve their fury and devotion to bringing the hateful Eldar to heel.

>>50781518
>Have to generate all dice rolls by computer macro otherwise games take 10 hours to get to turn 2 if the enemy has saves.

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>>50781536
At least that means that my maulerfiends are immune to grav, which is awesome.

>>50781457
The whole point of Orks, in my mind, is that they have worst stats but are cheaper so get more toys.

Why the fuck are their power fist equivalent 25 points? slash that 5-10 points. Slash the cost of burnas and scorchas, slash the cost of kans, slash the cost of KKFs and SAGs, slash the cost of mega armour and give nob squads discounts on wargear.
And for fucks sake fix mob rule and make boss poles give +1ld!

>>50781573
>play against big blobs of Peltasts
>Ork player camps cover forcing SKitarii to spam the small blasts
>Ork shooting takes forever because reroll 1s and FNP
>Assault takes even longer

>>50781457
Give orks invulnerable save options
Give orks power weapon options

Maybe the armourless nob with power klaw in a slugga boy unit doesn't need to cost more than a MANz.

"lolrandom" is not a fun gimmick, and should not make everything over costed because "1/10 games it works the way it should, and things going right is something you gotta pay out the ass for unless you're not an npc army"

>>50781558
The Str D profile for one of the weapon systems is only at 10' though. Personally I think a constant of Str 10 ap 2 at 72' is better as it's more reliable and can still pile on the hurt.

>>50781590
Grav shits on MCs just as much as walkers.

Grav shits on everything in fact. It is the cancer killing 40k.

>>50781596
That's the idea, I thought. They're sort of like Nids in that regard. Like, some kind of Dieselpunk Mad Max Tyranid.

They need A LOT of work. We're talking the kind of overhaul that took them from 3rd to 5th kind of nonsense.

>>50781536

Wouldn't have known that given it has Vehicle in the unit type.

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Anons, I'm building a 40k Alpha Legion force using Calth Mk4 marines. Would anyone care if I used the Cataphractii from that box as Chaos Terminators?

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>>50781609
>only at 10' though.
>only 10 feet

I know what you meant.

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>>50781558
>D-missiles
I keep forgetting about those. I either field a stormsurge or a field markerlights, never both.

>>50781609
>yeah, it actually has OPTIONS and both of them can still deal with Knights
>I'm still not sold on whether it's anti-Knight or not
Taufags, everyone.

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>>50781402
Show me more proxies, converts, and kitbashes

>>50781629
>would anyone care if I used terminators as terminators

no, especially since terminators are garbage

lots of people would even let you use them as cataphracti terminators

I asked about Genestealer chaos cults a while back. I found the images but I posted them here
>>50776075

>>50781629
That's an excellent idea, anon. If they care, they're shitters. Just gear them appropriately and try not to use too much counts-as unless it really can't be misinterpreted.

Do noise Marines work in space?

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>>50781629
The only people who would care are the insanely autistic people who can't handle ANY conversion or counts-as, and you should never be playing against them anyway.

CSM are more likely to even have Cataphractii anyway, because of their maintenance and production of Heresy-era gear on special Forge Worlds in the Eye of Terror and other areas, as well as being literally issued it during the heresy itself.

>>50781639
A single str 10 shot has to make it past a knigjht's 4++. If he passes that then the stormsurge has little else to do.

>>50781669
yes

>>50781629
Should be fine since Chaos doesn't have access to actual Cataphractii armor. "Counts as" generally only is an issue when it becomes unclear what is what or if you're truly stupid about what is used.

>>50781674
>72" range
>can fire twice
>D missiles

The Stormsurge will be fine so long as it isn't played by a total retard.

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>>50781648

>>50781624
Boyz also need to be able to take way more special weapons and the ability to take burnas.

Tankbustas are what I think Orks units should be like.
Their weapon is basically a missle launcher, a 15 point option in other codexs, that only costs 13 points but is Bs2.

Will they ever resculpt any of the Phoenix Lords?

>>50781639
Personally I'd rather use a y'varha for anti-knight.

>>50781691
I see Eldar bits and I'm immediately triggered.

>>50781669
Seeing as how half of their weapons are Warp-fuckery, I'd say yes, because fuck you the Warp does whatever it wants.

>>50781691
why is it tripping over

>>50781690
Would the Stormsurge fare better against a knight than an optimized stealth cadre then? IIRC a fully decked out SS is 400pts. I can't remember what a Paladin is.

>>50781685
How? Also, are doom sirens any good?

>>50781691
As someone who had to play against one of these things recently, how the FUCK is that model balanced in that pose? It would tip right over on the table unless it has some heavy weights under the base or some shit.

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>>50781648
Those made me sad. I thought I did good with these guys, but shit. Wish I had some actual talent.

>>50781698
orks shouldn't be eldar, they should be one squad which can take 0-5 big shoota, 0-5 rocket launcher, 0-5 burna, 0-5 power klaw, 0-5 big choppa

>>50781710
Well, it's a Slaaneshi Knight, and Slaaneshi daemons actually resemble Eldar somewhat because of the fact that 90% of their existence was due to the Eldar. Using Eldar bits in a Slaaneshi conversion - especially one like this - is pretty okay because it adds to the corruption aspect of it.

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>>50781669
Can you be raped in a vacuum?

Well with your brand new mark of Slaneesh(tm) you now can!

Features include
>Flaying people
>Flaying yourself
>Making jackets out of people
>Making Jackets out of your self
>Sex
>Murder
>Noise
>MurderNoiseSex
>SexMurderNoise
>Horns
>Multiple penises
>Multiple vaginas
>Dual genitals
>Freedom from gender
>Sexual fluidity
>Death

ORDER NOW!

>>50781721
A Paladin is 375 points base and will be hard-pressed to even scratch the Stormsurge until it gets to melee, if it ever gets there.

>>50781698
I think the issue about weapons/BS and WS as far as Orkz are concerned is that GW is still basing their weapons on Imperial tech too much. They're scared to go outside the norm. So an assault 12 Shoota is ridiculous in their mind. Except even at BS2 you're only hitting with maybe 3 of those at most. Compared to Marined who hit over half their shots at all times? It's just not fair.

Orkz need to be rule of cool above all other armies.

>>50781727
Now you're getting it. That rock is a counterweight.

>>50781688
>>50781672
>>50781665
>>50781649

Thanks, Alpharius. Time to pick up some AL Cataphractii pauldrons.

>>50781715
I think it's just jumping over the mutants beneath it.

>>50781727
Probably weighted base. I use pennies for my Raptors, and I've had good results.

>>50781726
yes

>>50781733
What do those count as?

>>50781757
But that resin is fucking heavy, is that rock made of lead or something? How did they even pin this shit?

>>50781454

Not a lot of anti-flyer, but I don't know your meta obviously.

>>50781768
knight's don't jump

>>50781768
>Probably weighted base
normal people use METAL WASHERS to weight bases

>>50781776
follow the reply chain, they're obliterators

>>50781726
Yes they are, but unfortunately, kitting noise marines for CC isn't that great. Could function as a solid countercharge weapon though.

Because of that cost, I'm not too sure about it. Points to consider:
-only goes on champ
-15 points
-champ has to challenge/accept
-champ cant get shit but a power weapon to hope he survives

>>50781749
Thanks. So meme's aside the Stormsurge while it isn't on the same level as a taun'ar, can still deal with knights effectively?

>>50781755
Which is more hits than a marine with a boltgun would put out for half the price.

>>50781612
>grav vs vehicles: haywire
>vs MC/GC: inverse toughness test
>everything else wounds on 6, +1 for each level of Bulky

Fixed?

>>50781782
I figure I'd take Hydras instead of Wyvern if they have flyers. Would that be enough?

>>50781776
Oblits, just like >>50781648 are.

I personally think that any new Obliterator kit should be based on Centurion armor, because it simply works better and really adds to the bulk that Oblits are supposed to have, as well as making sense for why they're going to have shit like lascannons and the like

>>50781733
Hey, those are pretty good anon. Very DarkMech feel.

>>50781710
What's eldar on it? All I see are nid/chaos/knight pieces.

>>50781813
yeah but I like my metal oblits better than your cents

>>50781802
Doesn't that make sense though? Weak volume of fire vs. Accurate stronger fire
Maybe something like
S2 Ap 6 18" Assault 12 or 18" Rapid Fire 12.

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>>50781755
>GW takes it as SACRED that power swords are always 15 points, even in the IG codex where no one has any real ability to use one
>even in the dark eldar codex
>even in the...

>>50781806
>haywire
no

>>50781791
That leg design and range of articulation suggest it's possible, as those legs are LITERALLY designed to leap forward and jump from a mechanical standpoint.

Also, I use pennies for Raptors. It's cheap as shit and works well. Why go buy $.25 washers when I have a $.01 weight that works just as well?

>>50781806
Or, just make grav work like it does in 30k

>>50781802
He's memeing, just ignore him.

>>50781838
Then you're just rolling huge amounts of dice and taking way too long for little benefit. I really should responding to bait posts though.

>>50781858
show me the 40k fluff where a knight jumps

>>50781402

Yeah definitely. They look a million times better than Obliterators.

>>50781850
Why? Forgot to add, ditch grav-amps.

Haywire means you don't auto-murder on a 6. Maybe make Explosions downgrade to Immobilize.

>>50781755

>assault 12

you wot

>>50781844
>Howling Banshees
>Vanguard Veterans

>tfw DE Agoniser is EVEN MORE EXPENSIVE and does EXACTLY THE SAME as a Marine with a sword, except against MCs but that doesn't matter because all the relevant ones have 2+ armor anyway

>>50781863
I'm not baiting though, I'm just spitballing. I've no clue how to fix Orkz as a whole, but everyone knows they're broken as hell and bottom tier. Again.

>>50781882
they're mid strength ITC

Can you use all the units in the "Imperial Agents" in a C.A.D?

>>50781879
Agoniser is better than a power sword, an increase is justified but 25 points is too much.

>>50781886
>ITC
bleh

Isn't that just because outdated characters like the discount stompa and the biker dude with an at initiative power klaw?
How is that in any way relative to what the regular Ork player will use?

>>50781875
Haywire would still make them absolutely superior to melta for anti-vehicle, given that they have anything between 2 and like 5 shots per gun.

Grav should demolish MCs, be reasonably effective against GCs, absolutely shit against vehicles and point-inefficient against everything else. There, now there is a reason to take melta/plasma again.

>>50781918
no

>>50781925
Plasma is the counter to MCs.

Grav should be an anti-air weapon.

>>50781339
Can you use a formation as your normal army? For instance, could I have an army that is just a Psykana Division?

>>50781956
Yes.

>>50781948
Plasma is an all-rounder that shits on MCs, TEQ, and vehicles up to AV12.

As of now grav IS anti-air. It has volume of fire, meaning it can actually score hits, and a single 6 has a 50% chance of instagibbing the flyer. It's simply too good.

>>50781948
>grav always HITS rather than wounds based on their armour save
>strength 6 ap 2
>hit's vehicles on 6s
>automatically pens any vehicles it hits, not automatic immobilization
>amp gives it twin-linked
Is it fixed?

>>50781339

Does /tg/ even know what a cabochon is?

>>50781733
Your fine, mate, big fan of nipple guns. A friend of mine throws random shit together for his conversion. can never tell what the shit its supposed to be.

>>50781457
Make em S4, forego furious charge for a rule that says charging Orks always fight first unless unwieldy, shootas are Assault 2+d3 and gets hot and rending, retain bs2

This shit fixes a lot of problems and my brother and I have played them exactly like this a few times to good results against his Necrons. There were other changes too but these were the big ones.

>>50781980
I do, and I can tell those are really well made.

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>>50781988
>the return of ASF
>on Orks of all races

>>50781656
My original (1990s) Genestealer Cult was Nurgle-based. They turned to worshiping Nurgle because they lived in the underground sewer systems of the city and their population was getting very sick and very desperate. Nurgle made them "immune" to their diseases and gave them access to daemons, at the cost of the patriarch's mind/soul.

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>>50781988
>bloodletter
>s4, furious charge, ap3 swords, 5+ invulnerable
>10 points

>boyz
>s3, furious charge, ap-, 6+ save and nothing else
>6 points
>can't just give them +1 strength because it would be overpowered

>>50781988
Always strikes first is what helped turn fantasy in to a cancerous mess.
Initiative exists for a reason.

>>50781339
I guarantee that that Macha isn't a virgin.

>>50781742
>they should be one squad which can take 0-5 big shoota, 0-5 rocket launcher, 0-5 burna, 0-5 power klaw, 0-5 big choppa
Except they're eldar either way. If I take 4 of those boyz squads as troops:
1 is my rokkit boyz
2 is my (big) shoota boyz
3 is my burna boyz
4 is my melee boyz

You're still stuck with aspects, because orks aren't good enough to do the 'take on all comers' thing like the imperial armies.

When a waaagh! is called, an ork unit may choose to either

>Gain rage and fleet for that turn
>May fire one additional shot with non-template and blast weapons. These instead gain shred.

>>50781844
Ig can easily get rerolls to-hit and to-wound in melee. Makes power weapons much better.

...they still are overcosted @ 15pts.

Always S4 and just a double initiative when charging would fix boyz, imo.

That won't happen though, because Orks hitting at the same time as their precious space marines would never be good in GWs eyes

>>50782093
People really underestimate Guard blobs with Priests. Re-rolls to hit and wound are nothing to sneeze at.

>>50781457
>I wouldn't mind Shootas being S3, Assault 4 or something like that.
The whole point of orks shitty shooting is that all of them, even shoota boyz, are trying to get into melee. The firepower wouldn't matter if they could pull off melee.

But because the shooting meta has made melee irrelevant, and the fluff forgot why orks are bad at shooting, just that they are, we're stuck.

Whats the best Combat Patrol list I can make for Space Marines with no Grav? Iron Hands chapter tactics. I dont have any Rhinos or Land Speeders, just 1 Razorback

>>50782101
Just +1 initiative for models with 'ere we go would help so much, you shouldn't balance everything against marines.

I3 means they're hitting tau before they get to strike, strike the same time as guard and cultists and strike before necron warriors.
Meanwhile the Nob gets I4 allowing him to thin out a guard blob with a big choppa before they get to strike, hopefully protecting a few boyz from counter attacks.

>>50781866
Well they can full-on sprint and dodge fire (i mean, as much as a thousand-something-ton machine 30ft tall CAN dodge things), which indicates they can withstand the mechanical tolerances of leaping forward if they are at a greater height than their target landing zone.

Watch the DoWIII announcement trailer for a good idea of how even a stubby-legged Knight can move, let alone one of these that are designed to be faster and more agile such as the ones depicted.

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Just curious if anyone has actually checked the digital sisters book to see if anything updated or changed in it?

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>>50781956
>IG psyker army
I wonder how much fun it would be to roll Malefic with multiple Psykana Divisions. Probably would look like a race to see how many psykers can be killed between your opponent and your Commissar.

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>>50781565
Nice, I like when people actually take the time to write out their custom chapter/warband fluff. I haven't done much of mine yet but I have a lot of ideas jotted down. The gist of their origin:

>unknown loyalist space marine chapter circa 39M
>sent to capture artifact sword on remote planet
>the marines arrive at a cave to find the artifact, but also a daemon prince of tzeentch
>as the marines march into the cave, the prince whispers strange and disturbing revelations
>the longer he talks, the more their minds are "opened"
>they find the prince + his sword, but by this time they no longer give a fuck. they leave the cave without the sword and are now crazed conspiracy theorists, obsessed with angles, secret signs, and numerology, a "prismatic truth" that only makes sense to their maddened minds
>the marines repaint their armor blue, the color of tzeentch (not intentionally, but . . . ), save for keeping the pauldrons orange
>the chief librarian who was on the mission to retrieve the powerful artifact is chastened by his chapter master, but his influence among a majority of the severely under-strength chapter, most of which accompanied him to the mission, makes them fire upon their battle brothers, and ends with the chapter master beheaded by force sword
>thus was born The Prismaticists, lead by the Sorcerer Lord Zambicklekt. Zambicklekt uses his study of divination to guide the traitor marines on wild goose chases across the galaxy in pursuit of increasingly absurd conspiracy theories. his nonsensical name was derived from a divination system that spits out random letters, and all of his marines underwent this ritual so they ended up with names like Ngrurgirl and Omebioeh

pic related, Prismaticist tac squad

plan to run a lotta cultists because Prismaticists consider humans who believe their conspiracy theories to be fellow "truth seekers" and don't treat them as poorly as most warbands. this has attracted quite a few human servants to their ranks

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/tg/, tell me what's wrong with this list. I am sure there's something horribly fucking wrong here, but I am to new to tell what it is.

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>>50782103
>mfw 20 man blob charged by 3 Carnifex squad
>mfw 1 dies on Overwatch
>mfw over the rest of the game the Priest sit there yelling litanies of hatred and making the men hold the fucking line while my one survivng Sarge fucking destroys both remaining Carnifex with nothing more than a chainsword

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>>50781565
I wonder if it's got to the point if i can mpost my list and people know who i am
Probably not but i cannot wait to finish this stuff in the New Year and post games here

>>50782150
>you shouldn't balance everything against marines.
>you shouldn't balance everything against the most basic, most common staple unit in this game

Should we balance everything against NPC races instead?

I just found an absolute bumble fuck ton of sprues and unused boxes in my closet that I don't remember ever buying. Maybe I was a hoarder long ago.

Anyone have any experience selling stuff on ebay and shit? What should I know?

>>50782223
If in UK/London - Darksphere buys minis

>>50782223
You'll need to do some research if you want to get a good price for that shit. Find out what it is that you've actually got, if you have all the sprues necessary to make all of it, then trawl Ebay for average prices for it and go from there.

Keep an eye out for OOP kits (though most OOP shit tends to be metal) that can fetch a premium over their would-be GW price sometimes.

>>50782194
It's Chaos

>>50782268
Dammit, I knew it would be something obvious!

>>50782212
That line of thinking is why EVERY fucking weapon is ap2/3 now days.

I think we should balance the game around the idea that T3 is average and 4+ is a decent save.

>>50781612

not MC with no armour saves though anon, there its just another bolter

especially with MC with Inv save

so is the old inquisition book still legal or does imperial agents replace it? I assume it is replaced same as sisters?

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>>50781791
but anon, how else are your knights fighting wraithknights?

>>50782291
It's a well-known fact that Daemons and/or Harlequins hard counter gravspam, but it will kill literally anything else in the game excepting maybe Orks.

Even then, grav-amps make the weapons nastier than they have any business being against such lightly-armored targets.

>>50782299
Nope, neither are replaced. See: Warhammer 40,000 Facebook page (GW official page).

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>>50781879

>tfw only 1 MC in your codex has a 2+, and none have inv saves

>>50782279
>That line of thinking is why EVERY fucking weapon is ap2/3 now days.
I thought it was because Marine armies, their variants, and armoured taudar made up 60-70% of the armies?

Every fucking weapon is a response to the most common unit. If you want the game balanced around T3 and 4+ saves, then the vast, vast majority of units should have THAT instead.

>>50782309

I was just correcting a blanket statement anon, no need to get angry

Are renegades and heretics good filor a beginner, or will I waste money because of people banning forgeworld

>>50781565
Ive only got the Basics down for my dudes.

>During the Drop Site Massacre, loyalist sympathizing Iron Warriors snuck some injured Iron Hands aboard aircraft
>Fled from main Legion
>Started as a Loyalist chapter called the 'Coalition of Iron', hide Iron Warrior origins
>Settle down near a comfy forge world
>Learn each others ways
>2 Chapter masters, 2 Captains for each company, exhibiting traits of whichever Legion's geneseed is more prevalent in them
>M36, forge world falls to Chaos, Chapter fails to stop hereteks
>Become fleet based Chapter dedicated to purging Chaos and hereteks
>Rename themselves the Iron Spectres

Its not the best, but I still like it

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Alright /tg/, how is my first list of Black Templars looking?

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>>50782317
>you have to read shit on facebook to play a tabletop game

why is this allowed

>want to play 1k sons + tzeentch
>literally impossible because 1k sons cost so much to take

fuck off please

>>50782337
I'm not angry my man. Salty, perhaps, but I've been over the worst of it for a while now.
>tfw finally started the Harlequin army I always wanted in response to local Marinefag playing Gravhammer
>tfw rekt his faggy assault marines in melee and most of my transports didn't even die anyway because of Jink
>tfw charged a Solitaire at his Knight and won

>>50782333
Except that's exactly NOT what you should do.

If everything in the game has a 3+ save, making every weapon in the game ap3 just invalidates the concept of armour saves.

>>50782379
If you watched the GW stream, you would know not even the guys who WRITE these shitty fucking rules actually bother to use them in their games of 40k.

Why do you?

>>50782317

But have the digital books been changed to have the agents book datasheets now?

>>50782379
This so much, fuck companies that want your money but can't be bothered to host a small website themselves.

>tfw have 3 squads of CSM in rhinos with double meltaguns in my list
>could buy a ton of other more useful units than them for my list, like Khornedogs
Should I? I really like three, since in a CAD that gives me a nice amount of anti-tank, and obsec.

Also, is buying both CCWs and an Icon of Wrath for the whole squad worth it, or just the Icon of Wrath?

>>50782379
GW's stance is that you should do whatever you like with their rulesets.

>>50782318
>you have mcs in your codex
>you have inv saves in your codex

>angryorkreactionimage.jpg

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Anyone have any ideas/suggestions for counts-as (with conversions and shit) a female Farseer? Most of what I've seen so far is far too cheesecake for the aesthetic of the rest of my army.

I've been told Infinity might be a good starting point but I know literally fuck all about that game so I wouldn't even know where to start looking.

Can somebody give me a pic of a Taurox next to a Goliath Truck for scale? or if anyone owns both and doesn't want to take a pic, can a Taurox be converted into a reasonable Goliath?

>>50782390
>If everything in the game has a 3+ save, making every weapon in the game ap3 just invalidates the concept of armour saves.
Which is why this ed is the "shooting is king" edition.

Codex creep + everyone has awesome armour + the new army needs better units/guns

If the game were balanced around t3 and 4+ saves, forever, codex creep would be kept slightly more in check than it is.

Holy crap. I've already found a grey knight terminator box, a strike squad box, a full unused trukk, Killa kans, and a full unused Battlewagon. What in the world was I smoking.

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>>50781465

>>50782468
isn't there a female eldar/deldar head you can just slap on?

>>50782500
been hitting those super glue fumes a bit too hard anon

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>Average 2k army is 300+ even at discount retailers
Fucking GW

So ive started collecting tau and have been smacked by the realization people don't want to play against them. What kind of tau army wouldnt be too bad while being more fun to fight? im thinking of avoiding big suits and using the piranha firestream and getting a bunch of drones

>>50782504
But it isn't flesh?

>>50782517
2k isn't the standard though

people play 1850 for tournies and 1500 casually

>>50781747

>Where we're going we won't need eyes to see

>>50782514
if he wasn't autistic, he'd just buy a female aelf head bit on ebay and be done

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>>50782468
>too cheesecake
>considering infinity models

have you glanced at the infinity models?

>>50782525
But he is. Partially. You know, down there.

>>50781417
There's no reason to post a lost looking for feedback unless you want to make the list better competitively. I always strive to keep advice within the obvious themes of a list, but if a dude posts a list that easily fits into a formation or two with some minor adjustments, I'm going to recommend those adjustments

>>50781368
4chan has a pretty good mix of opinions about GW/40k. Online talk about GW is fairly negative, and rightfully so. There's nothing more cancerous than trying to whitewash 40k/GW's myriad problems to potential new players.

>just because something isn't tournament viable doesn't mean it's unplayable, not everyone is WAAC and in fact most people don't play tournaments.
This is entirely true, but it's also true that it can be difficult-to-impossible to have good games with lower power codexes in even more casual metas.

>>50782528
2k is UK standard im afraid

>>50782551
no the european standard is 1500

>>50782556
>UK = Europe
>American Education
It's 2k

>>50782574
UK is in Europe you sperg.

ok so cypher can be added to a detachment and takes up no force org slot, now a formation is a detachment with no force org slot, can cypher be added to a formation? I'm thinking no because although he doesn't use the force org slots, one still needs to be a part of the detachment.

next question is then, can be taken by the codex imperial agents factions? since that is what inquisition and sisters are now, and he could be taken by them.

I want to say the old FAQs about sentinels of terra, iyanden, and farsight enclaves had a similar situation with codex name discrepancies right?

>>50781755
>orkfags in charge of math and balance
God damn. This is grade school level math.

Is /tg/ man enough to run a 1400 point death star comprised of 5 models with 2 daemon weapons and 3 force weapons, 18 WC harnessing on a 3+ and with guaranteed invisibility?

Lol

>>50782574
UK is part of europe
europe and the European union are different things

>>50782194
>Icon of Wrath on MSU
Not pragmatic. Take them all off.
>4 Meltaguns on the Raptors
Illegal, but the list builder is broken so all's forgiven. Should be 2 max.
>Equipping a Helbrute for longrange and with mixed weapons
Either take more autocannon havocs instead with the points saved from the Icons of Wrath or have a barebone setup.
>Khorne chaos lord and Terminators
Heavy flamer is illegal in a squad of 3. What task are you equipping them for? Drop the fists and consider 3 of the same combi weapons on the Termies, and give the Chaos lord the Axe of Blind fury instead of fist/LC.

>Bikers without upgrades
Your spare melta guns from the raptors should be going here.
>Nurgle Chosen
Good, just needs a Rhino to ride upfield quickly.
>Nurgle CSM
Should be only 1 special weapon per squad. Plasma guns go here for objective squatting.

>Lost and the damned
Good.

>>50782581
>>50782603
It might be lumped in, but in no way do we consider ourselves Euros
UK is a completely different culture than those fags on the continent

"UK is a European Nation" is factully false

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>>50782601
I hate that if you check the file it cancels out the file you chose.

>>50782613
>The United Kingdom, made up of England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, is an island nation in northwestern Europe.

0/10, you didn't even try.

>>50782592
The post you're replying to has to be bait.

There's no way even an Orkfag would be retarded enough to unironically suggest making shootas a 12 shot gun.

>>50782613
>>50782625
>>50782603
>UK is so butthurt about being called euros they voted to leave the union

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>>50782613
i understand you don't like to consider yourself European but the fact is if you are from the UK you are

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>>50782625
>Geography = the Culture
Utterly retarded

Hence 2k vs 1500 for tourny standard

>>50782633
>"Alright fucking this sinking ship i'm gone"
>"You mad"
:^)

>>50782601
>>50782615
You can't have a Deathstar with a Monstrous Creature.

>>50782514
>female Eldar
Nope.
>female DEldar
I don't trust myself to not fuck it up and make it look like a DEldar cosplaying.

>>50782537
Unfortunately, I am. I'll look into Fantasy's range but isn't it a smaller scale?

>>50782541
I have not.

>>50782643
Do you consider Turkey or Iceland a European country?
It's the same principle

>>50782633
>leaving the EU makes you no longer part of Europe

Does this mean that if Texas leaves the US, it's not longer part of North America?

>>50782520
That's a joke right? Who in their right mind would think "infinite drone formation? that will make people want to play me."

Here's how to make a "fun" Tau army.
>more than minimum Fire Warriors
>no suicide Crises suits
>no more than 1 big suit per 1,000 points
>no Riptide Wing, Heavy Retribution Cadre, Optimized Stealth Cadre, Piranha Firestream Wing

Obviously, if your opponent is dropping a Decurion with Wraithspam or a Gladius with Grav, then take as many Stormsurges or Riptides as you desire. Otherwise, stick with the above and you shouldn't have issues getting games.

>>50782613
No it isn't you fucking mong. We are European.
Stop making us bongs look even more like spastics, mate.

>>50781985
>>50781823

Thanks guys ;_;

>>50782654
Be'lakor is a MC?

>>50782651
>quick, move the goalpost, we must damage control harder

Here's your last (you) from me.

>>50782654
With monsters it's less like a death star and more like a captain planet thing
>Malefic daemonology!
>Divination!
>Book of true names!
>Greater gifts!
>WITH ALL YOUR POWERS COMBINED I AM 2++ REOLLABLE D-THIRSTER!

>>50782664
yes
iceland is closest to continental europe
turkey is in both asia and europe so it is a European country

What's a good non xenos, non imperium horde army that can field a lot of special characters?

>>50782374
> Mixing special and heavy weapons
> On an army meant to get into melee
Anon, decide what goes into each land raider and equip them for assault. Put the meltas on the bikes (multimelta on attack bike) and put the plasmas on the Sternguard and give them a drop pod/razorback.

>>50782674
Go suck Merkel's cunt you mong
Culturally we're radically different

>>50782684
>Original point was about the difference in tourny standard - i show that uk and eu is different
>y-youre changin the goalposts
kys

>>50782680
He's a fucking Daemon Prince, of course he is.

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>>50782689
>Turkey is European
Good goy

>>50782425
Anyone?

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>>50782613
Don't worry britbong, you won't have to worry about being European for long :^)

>>50782691
>non xenos
>non imperium
>special characters
wew lad you've given yourself literally 1 choice

>>50782696
I bet you voted leave because of immigrants, too. Keep your ill-informed shitposting to Facebook or at least /pol/.

>>50782425
>>50782425
Play world eaters, never buy icons again.

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>>50782710
60%
0
%

>>50782713
What choice is that?

>>50782691
>non xenos, non imperium
That describes literally only two armies in the game. You either play Chaos Space Marines or Chaos Daemons.

>>50782477

I, too, would like to see/know this.

>>50782737
R&H

>>50782630
>unit of 30 boyz
>puts out 360 shots
>average 120 hits a turn
>average 20 dead MEQ a turn
>but no 3+, totally balanced
I'm generally skeptical about claims of falseflag shitposting, but some these orkfags make me want to believe.

>>50782696
european isnt a fucking cultural definition is a topographical and genetic term

>>50782739
Is there a xenos horde army besides Tau, Tyranids, necrons, craft world eldar, and Orks?

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>>50782725
>Exercising my vote is bad
I bet you didn't even vote you little Kraut Cuckold
I did vote because i think that Globalism, any person or institution that supports it, needs to be hung

Unless it's under our rule ofc
>2/2
>On the Right side of History

>>50782691
So.... is there a reason you didn't just say "chaos army"? ?

>>50782727
But what if I want to summon Daemons and buff my dudes throughout the battle?

>>50782373
It's pretty cool tho

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>>50782756
Except if you go by Hablotypes, the easiest way to define peoples "Europe" is split into at least 3 continents

>>50782737
There's only one non-xenos, non-Imperial faction in the game. It shouldn't be that hard to figure it out.

Daemons are xenos, just a very, very strange ones.

>>50782757
No.

Why not KdK? Spam bloodletters, cultists, and Khornedogs. Then, during the battle, spam them some more.

>>50782762
>daemons
Ally in tzeentch
>buff
Cabal

Fluff as Black Legion warband with mixed World Eaters, Word Bearers, and some Tzeentch flair.

>>50782757

Genestealers

>>50782771
Can you run horde armies with csm?

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>a discussion about 40k turned into an argument about whether Britain is in the EU
alright
why are the britfags even awake? it's like 5am over there

>>50782691
Daemons

>>50782757
Genestealer Cults. Technically they're not Tyranids.

They have literally zero special characters though.

>>50782783
Yes. Play World Eaters.

Paint them as Iron Warriors, ally in artillery, and RIDE THE IRONFIRE

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>>50782468
You don't need to make boob-wraithbone armor. Just headswap.

>>50782783
Yes. Alpha Legion are a pefect horde army since Traitor Legions.

>>50782783
Lost and the Damned, nigga. Either with Typhus to make hordes of respawning zombies, or with Alpha Legion to make hordes of multiplying, respawning cultists.

>>50782758

Hanged.

Also your politics are as shit as your grammar.

>>50782790
Do they have ICS that I could join to units and forge a narrative for. They don't have to have names.

>>50782790
They have three. Patriarch Ghosar, Magus Orthrann Trysst, and Primus Vorgan Trysst

>>50782768
i love /tg/

>>50782662
>but isn't it a smaller scale?
no

>>50782771
>Daemons are xenos, just a very, very strange ones.
In the most technical sense, MAYBE, but even if that's true no one refers to them as a xenos army within the playerbase.

>>50782794
>headswap
With what, Anon? There are no female heads in the Eldar range, so my options are DE or... DE, because even if I did butcher a Sister up they are manfaces anyway.

>>50782811
Cool. Then I'll go this route, I think.

>>50782778
But that's not fluffy at all.

I don't want to be World Eaters. I want to be KdK.

Mostly because I like the KdK codex, and also because I have the KdK codex.

>>50782768
But according to this map, Slavs are white!

>>50782805
Oh yeah, definitely, and in 4 different flavors - Patriarch, Magus, Primus, and Iconward. They have little to nothing in the way of options though and the models are all monopose, so you'll have to do a bit of conversion work to make them unique.

>>50782807
Not in the Codex, he would have to dig up the White Dwarf rules for them, and they're honestly inferior to the generic versions.

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>>50782801
Nice comeback
Though learning the difference was a nice bonus for me

>>50782692
Can I get a further explanation on this?

>>50782768
No one, anywhere, goes by Hablotypes. Not even the people who came up with Habletypes.

>>50782746
Where did you factor in that not all the shootas would be in range or most of the boyz would die getting close enough to shoot?

So our local grow league is going up to 750 next week. We've got three Guard players, a Space Woof, a Salamander, and one jackass taking his fully-painted had-since-3rd Destroyer Cult. I don't know which of them I'll be playing against, but I've gotten okay for my faction in the league to be "Inquisition", with everything that involves. I'm thinking of dropping this in.

++ Nemesis Strike Force: 635 ++
Librarian: 110
- Warding Stave

5 Terminators: 188
- 4 Halberds
- 1 Daemonhammer
- 1 Psycannon

5 Interceptors: 142
- 1 Halberd
- 1 Incinerator

Nemesis Dreadknight: 195
- Personal Teleporter
- Heavy Psycannon

++ Inquisitorial henchmen Warband: 115 ++

Ordo Xenos Inquisitor: 85
- Conversion Beamer
- Psychotroke Grenades

3 Acolytes: 30
- Power Armour
- Bolters

Any suggestions on how to bring more anti-Necron tech without simultaneously fucking over the local Guard players, as well? I was thinking ap3 and 2+ solves the problem called Destroyer Cult, while low body count allows the local CADs to beat me on objectives to not seem unfair.

>>50782838
You could lose half the squad and still easily make their points back and more.

>>50782831

Primus is actually not bad, it's trading the Hatred bubble for being able to pass on Zealot, which could go either way. The Psykers both suffer from not being able to roll broodmind, and potentially Biomancy for the Patriarch. Not being able to Cult Ambush is what kills them though.

I'm just pointing out that they exist. Getting the rules is easy since the datasheests were and are still online and available for free to just print out.

>>50782826
pirate the epubs, anon

And sure it's fluffy. Kharn is literally helping out the Black Crusade in Angel's Blade/Traitor's Hate. Maybe they just don't hate Psykers that much, or they got tricked into thinking the Psykers were just really, really favored by Khorne.

>>50782838
That doesn't need to be factored in, if only half of them get to shoot it's still retarded.

3 shot shootas would be pushing it in terms of cost-effectiveness. 12 is a fucking joke. On a 7 point model? Are you shitting me? That's almost 2 Strength 4 shots per point.

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>>50782837
>Literally type in "Haplotype uses" on google
>Every single link on the first page are scientific papers
kek

>>50782800
Typhus affects all allies in the army, not just his detachment. So you can have an Insurgency Force with the Lost and the Damned, and Typhus in a CAD, and he can still turn the Cultists into zombies.

Hordes of respawning, multiplying zombies. As long as you're fine with being a WAACfag.

If I wanted to start playing Imperial Fists what books would I need? Is it just the Codex and Sentinels of Terra?

>>50782672
What if I Piranha Firestream Wing without drop-factory abuse?

>>50782380
>1k sons cost 1k points/son
pottery

>>50782852
Three shot shootas is still absurdly powerful. Shootas are fine. None of the current issues with Boyz or Ork codex arise from or would be fixed by buffing shootas.

I'd like to ally CSM with my Chaos Daemons but I'm not really a big fan of Thousand Sons. Would Alpha Legion be alright? I know they're not really Chaos aligned and more anti-imperium. Would an AL captain/sorceror ever ally with a Lord of Change; possibly both have something the other wants and so they're allied but keep trying to get the other killed through "just as planned..." shenanagins?

>>50782860
Sentinel of Terra is outdated.

You want the Codex and Angels of Death.

>>50782845
>acolytes with power armor

carapace at most

How well do plain old stickers work instead of transfers, if you seal them with varnish?

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>>50782824
Some of the Statuesque Minis female heads could worl for Eldar. The ones in the top left here in particular.

>>50782764
Thanks, Im currently using them in a narrative campaign, but not doing too hot

>>50782885
It's been 10,000 years and the legions have been shattered for about as long, each warband doing its own thing.
You can even justify Night Lords using daemons at this point.

>>50782810
If you want to see more of this kind of off topic shitposting I suggest you try /v/ next.

>>50782885
Alpha Legion (and all of the traitor legions other than WB) are a splintered lot. Some are totally fine with Chaos.

3.5 let them summon daemons, but only their cultists could carry the Icons. Your idea is totally fine.

>>50782891
Why so? I'm afraid of small arms fire, since anything high-AP will be bouncing off the cover I invariably park them in.

Besides, this lets me use my snap-fit tacticals as Acolytes, instead of buying more

>>50782850
ePubs don't work on my iPad, sadly. I would totally do it if I could, but I'm going to just have to work with what I have.

Besides, being tricked into thinking Psykers are cool is lame.

And I don't want to run Khârn, I want to run My Dudes.

>>50782878
Yeah, that's what I was saying. Even just buffing shootas by 1 shot would be ridiculous and this dude is saying they should be assault 12.

>>50782853
Of course it is, it's a biological concept. Biology doesn't have anything to do with geography.

Even if they DID, the UK and Iceland are still shown as being in the same group as France, Spain, Northern Italy, and Western Germany.

Iceland and the UK are still European.

>>50782892
Like garbage. Too thick.

>>50782885
AL and NL are the least likely to truck with Chaos. You can do it's but it's not fluffy at all. What's wrong with say Word Bearers? Summoning daemons is one of their main things and they have bonuses to that effect.

>>50782889

Thanks!

>>50782914
I guess if disagree that it would be "pushing it in terms of cost-effectiveness." It's bulldozing over the line of cost-effectiveness like a peace ambassador in a truck in continental Europe.

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>>50782918
>Biology doesn't have anything to do with geography.

>>50782036
IDGI, I just made the Boyz S4

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About to start the Beast Arises series, too bad my eyes hurt like fuck.

What am I in for bros?

>>50782921
Honestly, I just really want to fucking mess around with the 4+/4+ cultist stuff and Alpha Legion are probably my favourite Legion next to EC.

>>50782925
No problem.

Remember to thin your paints and layer up to the yellow.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A89Z5Ogu0Qc

>>50782939
The single best pun in the setting.

>>50781988
>shootas are Assault 2+d3 and gets hot and rending
Holy shit nigger what are you DOING

>>50782910
It's just too expensive to bother, even at the lowered costs in Imperial Agents.

>>50782912
Well, they are your dudes. Do whatever you want, but just know that KDK isn't really the best for straight CSM.

If I join an IC without infiltrate to a unit with infiltrate, it can still infiltrate right?

>>50782968
No.

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>>50782878
>Three shot shootas is still absurdly powerful.

You fucking wot

>>50782968
No, you cannot do this.

>>50782966
Yeah, I know. My current list seems pretty sub-par too, but I don't think it's that bad.

>>50782971
>>50782976
Thanks!

>>50782972
Do some math you imbecile.

>>50782966
Even assuming I drop them down to carapace or toss out the armour altogether, what would I replace it with? I could maybe grab rad grenades, but if I'm getting charged I'd rather have more better meatshields anyway.

>>50782931
If it did, our countries would be drawn on the borders on the Haplogroups map, and most countries have been split along similar looking people. History and geography are the tag team that decided country location, not biology.

Fucking /pol/fags.

>>50782845
>his fully-painted had-since-3rd Destroyer Cul
Na anon, you are the jackass.

>>50781339
Looks like somebody busted a nut on top of her helmet

>>50782036
Bloodletters are Toughness 3 with no assault grenades, no pistols, and cost 66% more.

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>tfw want to start playing tabletop as Orks
>heard they were the weakest race

>>50782999
In a slow-grow beginner's league? I'm only joining in because I've been out of the game since early 6th and want to get back in, and even then I'm building a new army from the ground up. He didn't touch his 'crons all through 5th and even in early 6th he was barely bothering with them, and now he's bringing a full Destroyer Cult against newbies when I know he has lower-power necron units? Fuck that, and fuck you.

>>50783010
just play, go read the first few posts, the game runs fine

>>50782972
Have you ever crunched the numbers on what three shot shootas do? It's a 50% bump in effectiveness of something (the efficacy of shootas) that doesn't need a bump. Fix the other shit first (durability, ability to make it into CC and swing, leadership woes).

>>50782895
Oh shit you're right. I'll add this to the pile. Thanks Anon.

>>50782878
So what is the issue with Boyz? Too low initiative? Piss poor armor? Can't field enough of them in a single unit? Shitty models?

>>50782997
>and most countries have been split along similar looking people
Except that's largely true you idiot - or are you lumping in the fact the Imperial powers were completly blind to this fact and thus when they drew borders they stuck a fuckton of different people into 1 nation in Africa and the ME? Thus causing most of the modern racial conflicts

Are you that ignorant?

>>50783025
A combination of the Initiative, Leadership, Mob Rule, and poor synergy with the rest of the army, on top of being melee units in shooty edition.

>>50783025
Lack of good wargear upgrades and a lot of other issues with the codex.

>>50783019
Then why don't you talk to him about it like a fucking man instead of passive-aggressively list tailoring against him with probably proxied and/or unpainted models on the off chance you will be facing him? Man betafags are the fucking worst.

>>50783010
Are there any other factions that you like the look of to a similar degree?

Orks are (other than maybe Thousand Sons without Magnus) the weakest faction in the game. It is entirely possible that you will find it difficult to even have a remotely entertaining game if your local meta is too high-powered. The most powerful Ork list revolves around a pair of extremely out of date Ork characters, doesn't really look like what most Orkfags want their army to look like, AND isn't that good anyways.

>>50782630
Having a gun that shits a ton of bullets is totally Orky. See the Gigashoota or Supa-gatler.

Granted the supa-gatler's rules are utter ass, but you catch my point.

Having an Ork vehicle mounted weapon that has 12 shots would be cool and fluffy, but not a standard boy.

>>50783019
Says the fuck nugget bringing a nemesis dreadknight

>>50783045
I have. He's "playing what he wants", and because he's an old friend of one of the owners he's getting away with it. I enjoy the entire rest of the community minus him, so that's simply the cost of being part of the local scene right now. I could deal with him. I know this. He's not the only one who plays Necrons, and I played fluffy marines back in the day, meaning I'm two scout boxes away from a full Battle Company. I'd rather not do that to a store full of new players in order to handle him, so I'm looking for something to split the difference.

>>50782991
Buy more Acolytes. Stick them in cover, get free 4+ instead of paying 2 points each. And more bolter shots.

>>50783010
orks are fine if you're not playing in a tournament

and if you're playing ITC they've buffed some of your options

over 4500 individuals contributed to more than 27000 thousand games and revealed that orks ended up mid tier

>>50783021
Thats implying 2 shot shootas are fucking already good.

>>50783064
I wasn't aware a single dreadknight was such a problem. I thought it was strong, but at a single it wasn't so bad - like wyverns, say.

>>50783071
So six acolytes with bolters at the same cost? Seems doable. Any suggestions on what to use for them other than basic guardsmen? It seems like that would be a little confusing in such a guard-heavy meta.