/btg/ Battletech General!

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>>50779640
PART TWO!: -

Field Manual Comstar.PDF
http://www.mediafire.com/file/ja3z2n1goe12623/Field_Manual_Comstar.PDF
8604 - The Spider and the Wolf
https://www.mediafire.com/?3d9brfrkj9vnhka
Aerotech 2 - Revised
http://www.mediafire.com/file/ivqhzog2wyoegxo/Battletech_35011_-_Aerotech_2_Revised.pdf
hexpacks 2&3:

Battletech Hexpacks
http://www.mediafire.com/file/3o59kirzzz6znac/BattleTech_Hexpacks.7z
also introbox stuff:
http://www.mediafire.com/file/l22yrlkk9buzuzl/BattleTech_Intro_Box_Set.7z

Historical War of 3039
https://www.scribd.com/doc/23569748/35014-Historical-War-of-3039

Mechwarrior 5: Mercenaries is coming, set during the Third Succession War.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gz8Y1V8gy1A&feature=youtu.be

Heavy Metal Archive (OLD)
http://www.mediafire.com/file/8so68gbw3yga4cb/2016-12-11_HeavyMetal-Archive-OLD.rar

Fan made TRO 3063:
battletechreader.blogspot.com/2012/09/the-fan-made-technical-readout-3063.html
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/8o30486fony5f/Fan_TRO_3063

... also Butte Hold

gas the clans space war now

>>50779402
The Bear one just looks like Goatse

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AMARIS DID NOTHING WRONG

Speaking of maps and Mapmaster, he's got a sale on now. Wish I could afford to buy these, although they would just gather dust anyways.
Be really good for Alpha Strike, too

https://www.face (not spam) book.com/MapmasterBattlemaps/
https://mapmasterbattlemaps.com/

FUCK YOU

BUTTE HOLD

ALL DAY

ERRY DAY

GAS THE CAPS RACE WAR NAO

EXTERMINATE THE CLAMS

RAPE THE SNAKE

AMARIS IS GOD

KERENSKY IS A HOMO

GRIND THE BURGERS

AMPUTATE THE FISTERS

FUCK THE PURPLE BURD

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Is there anywhere I can watch the Battletech anime in high quality?

>>50780152
The OP has the mediafire folders, and at least the second one has them. Dunno of the quality though.

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>>50780152
>Battletech anime
>quality

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>>50780148
>fuck the purple burd

>>50779472
To answer your question in detail, the first new mech platforms produced by the successor states are as follows:

Gladiator - Dracs
Battleaxe - Davions
Ymir - Lyrans
Firebee - Capellans
Icarus I - Mariks

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Praise Blake and pass the thermonuclear warheads.

Hey anons, so this is kinda odd a question to ask, but what Mechs come to your mind when someone says "average" or "mediocre?" Not necessarily "bad" rides, but ones that just... fall flat, either in your experiences as a player, or as mentioned in the fiction?

>>50780267
Praise Blake and pass the thermonuclear warheads
Praise Blake and pass the thermonuclear warheads
Praise Blake and pass the thermonuclear warheads
And we'll all stay free

Praise Blake and swing into position
Can't afford to be a politician
Praise Blake, we're all between perdition
And the deep black sea

Yes the mechwarrior said it
Ya gotta give him credit
For a sonofagun of a gunner was he

Shouting Praise Blake, we're on a mighty mission
All aboard, we ain't a-goin' fishin'
Praise Blake and thermonuclear warheads
And we'll all stay free

Praise Blake and pass the thermonuclear warheads
Praise Blake and pass the thermonuclear warheads
Praise Blake and pass the thermonuclear warheads
And we'll all stay free

>>50780359
Shadow Hawk 2H
Original Phoenix Hawk
Crusader (torso bomb special)
Quickdraw
Ostsol / Ostroc

>>50780359
Phoenix Hawk
Orion
Wolverine

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>>50780359
>what Mechs come to your mind when someone says "average" or "mediocre?"

Dragon. Seems like it should do more given its size.

>>50780359
The Quickdraw is like the definitive "meh" mech. It's just so...average. Same with the Whitworth, IMO. They're both very blah.

>>50780419
Agreed that the Dragon is lacklustre. Pitiful weapons, and an engine that is oversized. Would be better with more weapons and less armour. Why bother with anything less than an AC/10 ?

>>50780266
Thanks, what about the periphery states?

>>50780419
>Seems like it should do more given its size.
Well, that's what happens when you mount an AC/5. The 3025 Grand Dragon is actually really nice

>>50780793
Toro - Taurian Concordat
Merlin - Outworlds Alliance
Phoenix (IIRC) - Rim Worlds Republic
I think it's actually the goddamn Anubis - Magistracy Of Canopus

>>50780793
The Taurians made the Toro
The RWR made the Phoenix
The Canopians made... nothing? I think they just rebuilt other people's mechs until like the FedCom Civil War era or something.
The Outworlds made the Merlin.

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Rate my OC /btg/

>>50780964
faggot/10

truly the oc we deserve

>>50780964
10/10 would XIN SHENG with.

Quick! You get your choice of a single 3025-era mech to be a lone, freelance mercenary in 3025. No Star League Majyyyks allowed.

>>50781428

Hatchetman, with both MLs in the left arm. Done.

>>50781428
Thunderbolt. A nice beefy trooper, fits in with everyone and everything.

>>50781428
Griffin-1N. Loads of easily-available parts, extremely reliable (so famous for it they were still building 1N's on special order in the 3060's). Enough firepower and enough mobility for most low level gigs.

But most of all, flexibility. As a single freelance merc, you'll likely be working in a lot of larger formations. And there isn't a commander in the Inner Sphere that can't use a Griffin in a lance somewhere that works well.

>>50779730
fug that, Terran Hegemony forever!

>>50780841
Anubis is a Triple Alliance mech. I think the Ebony or something is the Canopian's first.

>>50781428
BLR-1G BattleMaster. Acceptable speed, decent firepower, good armor. All it's missing is jump jets.

>>50781428
It's a tough choice between Black Knight and Warhammer, but I think I'd have to go with the Black Knight just because it doesn't need ammo.

>>50781428

MAD-3M. I have a death wish, and it comes with large lasers.

>>50781428
Awesome-8Q. I like not having a significant chance of loosing my mech to an ammo explosion

>>50781680
>Worried about ammo
>When the actual repair parts are going to be impossible to find

Heh

>>50781428

The PPC Grashopper. Or the Marauder II if I can swing it. Jumping, tough, energy-only.

>>50782013

If you mean the Black Knight, it was retconned to have had at least two factories pumping it out. One in the FWL because reasons and one in the Federated Suns because duh.

>>50782224
>If you mean the Black Knight, it was retconned to have had at least two factories pumping it out. One in the FWL because reasons and one in the Federated Suns because duh.

No. The original factory got fucked in the 1st Succession War and then TRO:3039 retconned it back to hobbled production for another 11 years before being destroyed utterly at the end of the 1st Succession War. Nobody has built them for over two hundred years by 3025.

The Robinson factory isn't built until almost the Fedcom Civil War.

>>50782224
Also it's funny you mention a Grasshopper variant from decades after the question, not to mention the chassis also having a major parts problem as well as the Marauder II that wasn't sold to anyone bu the goons until the 3030's.

>>50780964
Not bad, NS.

>>50781428
Orion ON1-K hands down. It has nearly everything I want in a mech.

If I could personalize it, however, that would be even better.
DHS, 3 JJ's, 4 ML's, No SRM's 12.5t of armor. I'd pilot nothing else.

>>50782515

I mean, if we can have modified mechs I'd take the MAD-3M with a LL instead of the AC/5 and jump jets instead. But then we get into all kinds of custom funkiness.

>>50782515
>DHS in 3025

Two Holy Shrouds weren't enough.

>>50781428
Probably a Marauder-D

>>50782454

The GHR-5N's intro date needs to be back-dated from what MUL says because it's now meant to have been around for some time prior to the War of 3039. It shows up on the RATs for both the Suns and the Dracs.

The Marauder II was available to others in that time frame as well, notably Miller's Marauders.

>>50782387

Fair enough, I thought Connaught and Robinson were always producing.

>>50781428
Wolverine 6M or Thunderbolt 5SE. Both are nicely mobile with mostly energy weapons, thick armor, and spare parts everywhere. Only mods I'd do would be to strip the missiles for less explosive weaponry.

If I can cheat on maintenance somehow, a Grasshopper instead.

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>>50782588
3025-ERA mech. Which means it would be a third or fourth succession war mech. And since serialized production DHS were ready in 3041, it beats the next coming era, the clan invasion, by a decade. However, this is all a moot point as I am a mercenary with a 3025-era mech IN 3025. So I hope to fuck I don't die from heat stroke so I can get me my DHS.

>>50782671
It's already been backdated. The original date was 3056 as it was the variant created when they built the new Grasshopper factory. All the info from the TRO:3039/Historical 3039/Sword and Dragon period should be treated as highly suspect in any case. Especially Sword and Dragon as it came from the Never Were Unseen era and retconned stuff like the composition of the Fox's Teeth.

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>>50781428
BJ-1.
Yeah, for real. I will gladly bug-hunt all along the Periphery border. Ammo is cheap, and plentiful, and replacement parts are pretty easy to get.

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>>50781428
>Quick! You get your choice of a single 3025-era mech to be a lone, freelance mercenary in 3025.
Grasshopper, hands down. Survivable, hard-hitting, suits my combat style. It can also keep rolling with pretty heavy damage, so if I need to get more parts I can still be pulling a paycheck since I'll be some use to the unit. Once I can scrape the cash together, throw some VGLs and a flamer on her and get rid of the LRM, so I can deal with infantry.
If I can't have it (rarity, whatnot), I'd go with what my commanders usually roll in, a TDR-5SE or even a -5S.

Third choice would be a Pixie or Chameleon. Good mix of capabilities and speed, and I do have a decent RL mix of small-unit tactics training and reflexes, plus the memory and repair skill, to get away with running a scout lance.

As far as other good choices go, the Griffin isn't too bad (just buggered in close combat), and the 3025 Cronos is excellent if you can manage to get on the waiting list (at that point the line was still getting started, so they were only doing 2-3 per month out of their garages, almost all as conversions).

>>50781857
Or ever. That's a fucking zombie that gets handed down from one person to the next for hundreds of years, with the last owner getting rinsed out of the cockpit with a hose after one too many COCKPIT HIT, FUCKKING HOT or FELL OVER moments.

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>>50782825
Yeah, the 'jack isn't a bad choice. Especially since you can find cheap Flak ammo and play Captain Lawn-Dart if the unit can't afford a Rifleman. Parts aren't too hard to find either.

>>50781428
Thunderbolt 5SE

>>50782970
It's got a lot of upgrade potential too. I'm actually having a lot of fun messing with it at the moment. Hell, the 3050 upgrade would be amazing if it didn't use the SSRM2s and just kept the Medium Lasers.

>budget RFL
Yessiree Bob. It's actually probably meaner than the RFL all told too, given the brawling potential it has, coupled with the heavier armor and JJs.

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are you guys ready?

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>>50784555

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>>50784568

>>50784555
>>50784568
>>50784590
O-oh, Oh sweet Jesus.

Okay, this just got a LOT better.

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I need help anon. I've been playing with pic related's set up for Atleast Itsnot's trinary, and I'm debating reforming the star so that the command star is all assaults, but I'm not sure if I should, since each of them has at least some mobility to catch up to fleeing units.

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>>50784590

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>>50784647

>>50784641
I mean, they're already already murdering shit by the gross lot, why change things up?
also, how much money have these fuckers accumulated? I can only imagine it's billions

>>50784692
Straight from MHQ:

Net Worth................ 12,449,923,396

Assets............... 12,449,923,396
Cash.............. 7,548,875,326
Mechs............. 2,622,910,091
BattleArmor....... 23,913,928
Small Craft....... 143,351,345
Large Craft....... 2,110,872,706
Spare Parts....... 183,606,312

>>50784699
>Large Craft....... 2,110,872,706
do they own a WarShip or something?

>>50784699
You know what, it's fitting that these guys have enough cash on hand that they could just call up the FWL and be like "so, we'd like to buy a Zec. is cash OK?"

>>50784710
That's not enough for a proper warship. MHQ just lumps the 3 Overlords, Mule and the Star Lord into a single category. If you've got the right techs, Quality F bonuses aren't far away.

>>50784732
>MHQ just lumps the 3 Overlords, Mule and the Star Lord into a single category
>a standard regimental transport set-up costs TWO BILLION FUCKING C-BILLS
What in the fuxk?

>>50784772
That's why even proper Successor State units only have jumpship transport for about 1/3 of their forces and why people commandeer civilian jumpships for invasions.

>>50784772
big fucking surprise, pricing for literally everything in battletech except POSSIBLY 3025 mechs and vehicles is a total nonfunctional clusterfuck

>>50784772
There's a reason why /btg/ says any mercenary unit with its own Jumpship is mary sue. I went with the Star Lord because there just isn't a Jumpship that has 4 collars and isn't extinct like the Liberty. Everything's gear for multiples of 3, rather than 4. But yes, spacecraft are stupendously overpriced. I'm saving up for a Texas, and I'm *still* 300 million short.

>>50782970
I personally consider the BJ a superior choice over the Rifleman (the BJ-3 is quite fun, if a bit hot), shame there's no non-Omni version with larger ACs

>>50784796
This. The biggest issue is that as new tech "ages" the Cbill cost remains a constant. It's fucking hilarious how that works. According to FASAnomics, a DVD player that cost $500 in 1996 or so but costs $25 now would instead still cost $500 in 2316.

>>50784772
DropShips got a 7x price increase for literally no reason at one point, and JumpShips also got extra expensive, also for no apparent reason, so keep that in mind

>>50784796
>pricing for literally everything in battletech except POSSIBLY 3025 mechs and vehicles is a total nonfunctional clusterfuck
spacecraft pricing worked in 3025, at least well enough, and infantry pricing also was mostly fine. It was really the introduction of the XL engine where things went off the rails in this department, accelerated into a clusterfuck under fanpro and completely shit the bed later on when CGL decided to completely crash even the tenuously working bits of mercenomics with no survivors in their current round of rules

>>50784820
There is a BJ with twin LAC/5s and twin ER Medium Lasers with a TComp that the Davions get. the BJ-4.

>>50784825
Oh, it's way worse now. You know what the Blackout and Hospice Comstar did to the Cbill? It's worth 4% in 3145 of what it was in 3130. That's less than twenty-five cents in today's money. The legendary stability is dead, and we have basically nothing to replace it with.

The Stone is in the toilet since 3135. The other Housebills aren't much better. The Kroner used to be strong before the Lyrans double clanfucked themselves. The Eagle is too new to be stable. Nobody outside Capellan space uses the Cha Ching. The Dracs are really the only people with a good currency but I don't expect that to last.

>inb4 the new standard is the Kerensky
Fucking Clan Space Jew

>>50784699
>>50784710
>>50784732
>>50784772
I just use GM mode to set up a negative money asset to basically cut the cost of all dropships and jumpships in half to adequately represent a more reasonable asset.

>>50784936
Yes anon, come to the Kerensky side. We have TONS of great deals. Drawfags, I need a picture of a Diamond Shark rubbing its fins together.

>>50784948
But I make 64 million C-bills a month on this contract. Why should I not pay full price?

>>50784555
>>50784568
>>50784590
>>50784647
>>50784657

Hanse H. Davion, my body is so ready for this.

>>50784948
I personally just run any attempts at buying them during a game under the old DS&JS rules, and since I'm not using pay by percentage, I don't care how AtB tracks their cost

>that guy last thread saying X Wing is a bad game
>Same guy implying AeroTech is better than X Wing

How does it feel to be so wrong?

>>50785157
I mean, X-Wing is fun and all, but it's a very different scope of game.

>>50784555
>>50784568
>>50784590
It's like I'm back in 2003

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>>50785157

I dunno. I've never played X-Wing so I have no dog in that fight.

I do like AT though.

A while ago I said I was going to work up something that could beat a Leviathan II. Here it is.

There are a couple of caveats, however. It doesn't carry as many ASFs internally unless you want to load ASF into Small Craft bays. Which you can do, but with the new ECM rules having Small Craft supporting your ASF squadrons is a big boost. OTOH, there are 18 DS collars so you can bring another 6 Vengeances with it and make up the difference with over a hundred to spare.

The SI is lower but the arcs that will generally be hit have been up-armoured to account for the difference. The exception is Aft, which had to be trimmed to protect the Nose and Sides.

The weapon bays are biased to ballistics at the front with High-Speed Engagements in mind. If you can get the NGRs and NACs to connect you stand a decent chance of cracking through a Lev's armour and killing it through SI. Thanks to how insane 1,000 armour per facing is that's also the most likely way you'll kill one even using something that's as flagrantly bullshit as this.

It is *possible* to make a more bullshit ship, but the range to do so is pretty narrow. There's always the standby of going all-out on DSes (so you can have more Vengeances....) but in terms of capital weaponry there's not a lot more you could do. 70 KT disappears real fast and the benefits are arguable if you actually intend the ship to see use. 70 KT will see you through a year's cruise for the ship itself but you
ll need outside help for the fighters. But after allocating 6 collars to Vengeances and 6 to Interdicotrs you still have another 6, which can all go to Mammoths or half to Mammoths and the remainder to troop transports or the like.

TL; DR: This ship is designed to be obnoxious from the ground up and is the biggest thing you can build. Even so it's only *marginally* better than the Leviathan II in a straight fight.

>>50784699
>>50784806

You're a lot more than 300 million short, CA. The K-F gear on a Texas is almost 12.5 billion after the cost changes from StratOps.

Those changes were needed, BTW. The fluff talks about WSes being ridiculously expensive and their loss representing incredible amounts of cash.

But the old prices for them were way under that. I think a McKenna would set you back ~10 3050-era asault 'Mech regiments. Which is a fair outlay, but is one of the most expensive ships going and one far beyond the ability of the Houses to construct at any point.

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>>50786171

Neg, sibkin.

This is the correct response to light 'Mechs.

>>50786271
https://youtu.be/P2RO6lo84Hc?t=2m8s
Blake's Light best answer

>>50786308

"Blake''s holy light: Don't just say yes, say Erinyes."

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>>50786221
Straight out of MHQ, anon. I'm not going for the Clan version, I'm going for the classic space dildo.

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>melee confirmed for Hairbrained BattleTech game
What a time to be alive.

>>50786555
Now if they give us glorious pushes and charges, it will be best day.

>>50786629
Supposedly they wont - they worried that too many choices would cause problems. They were already striving to make shooting as lightweight a system as possible and didn't want melee to have the same complexity. They were also worried that with so many options there would always be sub-optimal choices that experienced wouldn't use and that inexperienced players would use and regret.

>>50784641
What did your Star Commander there do to end up in an Inner Sphere mech?

>>50786791
He didn't move fast enough to get back to the Mad Cat I was repairing. So now it's a Clan techified Falconer. I don't have any IS tech units beyond my chief Admin's laser Swayback.

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>>50786426

Yeah, that ain't right. Here's spreadsheet output for the actual costs. Final amount is 13,636,212,000 C-Bills.

I don't know what MHQ is doing with its cost formulae but it definitely isn't in-line with the StratOps values.

>>50786655
That's a shame. Being able to displace things comes in extremely handy sometimes.

>>50786834
Probably running off of "No one gives a fuck about Aero costs anyway, so why worry?" It's not like it's a serious game where I'm worried about matching canon anyway.

>>50786836
I'm leery of the melee being context sensitive only. There are times I'd prefer to kick someone rather than punch them.

>>50786834

... and I fucked it up any way, by not adding enough zeroes to the NAC/40 costs. That should be 36 million, not 36 thousand.

So the final cost is 13,707,140,000 C-Bills.

>>50786866
At least there's finally a use for small guns though.

>>50786866
>There are times I'd prefer to kick someone rather than punch them.
All melee attacks are the same in their current system.

>>50784555
>>50784568
>>50784590
>>50784647
>>50784657
If they can put a 100 ton mech with a hatchet and in later versions TSM, I will be so happy. A Berserker needs to be fielded.
Today is a good today to punch.

>>50786629
>>50786655

Looks like charging is in, though, unless this >>50784647 is a punch by the shortarse 'Mech.

>>50787096
Shoulder check, iirc.

>>50787118
Shoulder check or punch, it's the same as any melee.

Charging isn't anything special at the moment - melee attacks have a certain range they can be used at, with the mech closing in to attach and then returning to its starting point. It doesn't do anything special.

I'm sure if we make enough noise, though, they'll be more inclined to diversify melee.

>>50787137

TREE CLUBS WHEN.

I need my Atlas to swing a Louisville slugger.

>>50787137
Maybe they'll make pilot special skills, like the Front Mission series, and one of them will be "when you punch, you can shove an enemy mech" or something similar

>>50787137
>Shoulder check or punch, it's the same as any melee.
Well yes, but a Charge is different from a standard punch, what with the whole "target must be done with its movement" thing.

>Charging isn't anything special at the moment - melee attacks have a certain range they can be used at, with the mech closing in to attach and then returning to its starting point. It doesn't do anything special.
That's not a charge then. Charging takes your tonnage and how far you moved for damage.

>>50787201
Follow the conversation. The game doesn't differentiate between melee attacks. It's all just a question of visuals.

>>50787212
Then why do I care? If it's all just visuals, why are we hyped?

>>50787243
Because after 30 years I will finally be able to punch shit in a electronic Battletech game.

>>50787243
>Then why do I care?
Couldn't tell you.

>>50787147
If they implement melee weapons (hatchets are a definite thing from the timeline this takes place in), then picking up trees or 'mech limbs is a definite thing too.

I can finally play a game where I actually rip someone's arm off and beat them to death with it.

>>50787731
>I can finally play a game where I actually rip someone's arm off and beat them to death with it.

With both participants being giant fucking robots.

>>50787212
DFA was mentioned in the update, though.

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>>50787871
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ljdg1J0XBSs

>>50787871
Every single time someone uses DFA in our tabletop group, everyone involved dies.

I look forward to it.

Would this work as a MBT in 3025?

Bulldog Medium Tank (LRM FCE)
IS advanced
60 tons
BV: 1,095
Cost: 2,306,400 C-bills

Movement: 4/6 (Tracked)
Engine: 240 Fuel Cell

Internal: 30
Armor: 224
Internal Armor
--------------------------------------
Front 6 65
Right 6 52
Left 6 52
Rear 6 20
Turret 6 35

Weapon Loc Heat
----------------------------------------
LRM 20 TU 6
SRM 6 TU 4
SRM 6 TU 4
Machine Gun TU 0

Ammo Loc Shots
----------------------------------------
LRM 20 Ammo BD 6
LRM 20 Ammo BD 6
SRM 6 Ammo BD 15
SRM 6 Ammo BD 15
Half Machine Gun Ammo BD 100

>>50788889

MBTs tend to have an A/C-5 or better or LL/PPC as the centrepiece of their armament.

Other than that you might want to look at using three SRM-4s so you can squeeze a few more volleys out of your ammo.

Anything with an FCE is going to have a pretty big edge on ICE vees and possily even fusion tanks if they rely on ballistics rather than energy weapons.

If my player were to unearth a cache of Star League era aerospace fighters, principally those you might find for a Terran Hegemony based unit or maybe what would have been issued to Hegemony militia, what would be the most common designs?

Looking for a departure from the usual "you find mechs, rejoice" thing.

>>50788889
I personally prefer my MBTs to have a gun of some kind to punch holes, but if you like missiles I can't hate.

>>50789147
yea i know, this is just the FCE version of the bulldog LRM variant.

>>50789154
>you find a batch of star league era rations

>>50789154
>Find 50 tons of Star League propaganda TriD's.

>Sell them all to Goliath Scorpion seeker

>Retire

>>50789180
We did that already. And refurbished tires, military issue tampons (lighter and more efficient), and camping equipment.

Going up from lights to mediums through heavies: Tomahawk, Zero, Rogue, Trident, Spad, Hellcat, Stingray, Gotha, Ironsides, Hammerhead, Thunderbird, Eagle, Rapier, Ahab.

Of those I'm kinda partial to the Ironsides based on its looks. Also because you can make jokes about wanting to know more.

>>50789154
Sabre (20t), Centurion (30t), Lightning (50t), Hellcat (60t), Eagle (75t), Thunderbird (100t).
They're the six standard fighters from old AeroTech 1e, and are built by everyone the way the old Star League Unseen were built by everyone.

what is the best tracked tank in the assault vehicle category?

Are the ATB rules still stagnant at version 2.3?

>>50789742

Hard to go past the Alacorn.

>>50789742
Schrek and Demolisher in the introtech era (also don't discount the Partisan), Alacorn after the Great Leap Forward.

File: Mars XL.png (297KB, 1164x1031px) Image search: [Google]

297KB, 1164x1031px

>>50789742
The Mars XL.

>>50789742
Depends upon the era, but the Alacorn is a solid choice, and the Demolisher is always a heavy hitter. Schrek PPC Carrier isn't bad, but it's a bit of a glass cannon.

Some of the post-Clan ones that used advanced tech are good, if pricey. Challenger X is a hard hitter, and well protected, as is the Ajax.

>>50789742

Schiltron.

Because one Schiltron can and has taken out an entire binary of 0/0 Turkina Zs. It was live-played on /btg/ - someone should have screencaps.

>>50789904
Schiltron is wheeled, not tracked.

>>50789921
Nukes say it can be tracked if it wants to be.

>>50789921

Mere details. When a wheeled vehicle is capable of such destruction, there's no point in having tracked ones. It basically obsoletes all other tanks.

also, I forgot it was wheeled

File: you will never unsee it.jpg (83KB, 647x404px) Image search: [Google]

83KB, 647x404px

>>50789894
The happy pulp sci-fi robot never ceases to make me smile. Almost as good as the happy Guillotine.

>>50790003
That's one of many reasons why the Mars XL is fantastic.

File: Manteuffel.png (31KB, 608x488px) Image search: [Google]

31KB, 608x488px

>>50790003

I prefer the three-faced Manteuffel.

File: Proceed.jpg (36KB, 196x192px) Image search: [Google]

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>>50790165

File: YeoCrotcho.jpg (99KB, 587x600px) Image search: [Google]

99KB, 587x600px

>>50790677

File: the happiest guillotine.jpg (56KB, 393x508px) Image search: [Google]

56KB, 393x508px

Got to put this one out.

>>50790788
>Highlander-senpai noticed me!

>>50790788
reminds me of the martians in the 1950s War of the Worlds

>>50789894
What's that? Big ass guns AND enough missiles to make MACROSS Weep? WHY THE HELL NOT?

>>50784555
>>50784568
>>50784590
I am erect.

>>50787243
>Then why do I care? If it's all just visuals, why are we hyped?
But look at dem visuals.

>>50788734
I've been playing for 27 years. I have seen a total of eleven DFAs where the attacker connected and survived.
Only two were mine. And I try a lot.

>>50791309
Three words:
Heavy LRM Carrier
4xLRM20 with plenty of ammo behind it.

New to the game, could someone help me understand a couple things on Star League mechs?

Are the Royal ones retcons? Like were they in the fluff when ComStar fought the Clans on Tukayyid? Did they disappear with the Exodus? Did the ComGuard have any?

Were the Royal versions of mechs only given to SLDF units from the Terran Hegemony? Have any been put back in production?
Are regular Star League era mechs the equals of Clan mechs? Like on Tukayyid, I mean, are they why the ComGuard won?
If not, are the Royal versions as good as Clan mechs?

>>50792378
It's a somewhat complicated answer, but here goes.

>Are the Royal ones retcons?
In order: Kind of, and kind of not. The fluff before the Royals were elaborated on said the SLDF had gear that the Houses didn't have and that the army mostly used what the Houses used (the stock Unseen and so on), but we never got stats.

>Like were they in the fluff when ComStar fought the Clans on Tukayyid?
The Royals were not in the fluff when ComStar fought at Tukayyid, since the Royals were statted and fluffed 19 real time years later.

>Did they disappear with the Exodus? Did the ComGuard have any?
Most did, with the remainder staying with the SLDF units that joined the Houses or what manufacturing the Successor States could clone themselves. ComGuard probably did have them on Tukayyid, but since the full roster of ComGuard units would be stupendously large, you may just have to take it as written.

>Were the Royal versions of mechs only given to SLDF units from the Terran Hegemony?
Correct, at least until the Liberation would have necessitated every unit functioning with whatever gear they could get their hands on.

>Have any been put back in production?
Most likely, but since we don't have hard numbers on every unit in production's factories, the best bet is checking the MUL. The New Dallas Memory Core has proliferated far and wide, so it's not unlikely to see one.
>cont

>>50792629
IIRC, objectives:periphery had some of them in production in the TC, although it's almost certainly just because they didn't feel like creating new 3050-but-periphery refits for the unseen.

>>50792629
>Are regular Star League era mechs the equals of Clan mechs? Like on Tukayyid, I mean, are they why the ComGuard won?
Technologically? Not even close. Clan gear started at the pinnacle of SLDF knowhow and went even further. Clan gear is outright better than IS tech in most respects. On Tukayyid however, Anastasius Focht and the ComGuard fought the dirtiest clean war in the setting's history. Aside from NBC, no trick was forbidden, and the ComGuard still took massive losses, though a large part of that was that the ComGuard was functionally a Green force.

>If not, are the Royal versions as good as Clan mechs?
That depends on what you mean by "as good as." The Royals were built for an army, so their doctrinal requirements are vastly different from the duel focused Clans. Though I'd take most Clan heavy and assault designs over the SLDF units.

>>50792696
The Objective books don't list any specific variants for mechs.

>>50792748
It must have been HB:MPS, then

>>50779979

Seeing as he's in my game group I figure I could pass on some news from Mapmaster.

Seems he's decided that 4x4 maps are more accessible for the average players so all future projects will be of that size unless something special comes up. He has another map in the works which he's calling Bridgetown. 4x4 with a river down the middle, three bridges, dense city on one side and more open county on the other.

I'll take pictures the next time we try out another new map.

HOW DO I KEEP MECHWARRIOR 4 STABLE REEE, EVERY TIME I EXIT AND RESTART IT CRASHES

>>50793153

You don't. Play a Mechwarrior game from this century and give up on your outdated notions of having "fun" with a game you bought and paid for only once. Grinding and microtransactions are what are "fun" now.

https://mwomercs.com/

>>50793426
>Grinding and microtransactions are what are "fun" now.
Freaking Farmville for battletech.

>>50793460

Whatever. Fuck you, pay me.

>>50793505
>Whatever. Fuck you, pay me.
...
Sending you DFA Highlander as a special friendship "gift." Enjoy your flattened house and ass.
>Like if u cry every tyme

>>50793572

Yeah, do that. Like Loren wouldn't take the cost of repairing his house out of the CGL profits again. Way to go.

>>50793426
>spending money on mwo

kek
I've played for four years and never spent a dime.

Is there a resource somewhere where I can find stat/data sheets similar to what the TROs have for "base" versions, but for the variants? (e.g. for the Wight 2LAW/SC3 rather than the base 1LAW/SC).

On a related note, I remember hearing there was a resource for a program that auto-makes mech sheets for a given model (has a table for all the weapons' stats, fills out the critical charts, put in the hexes for armor and structure, etc). Is that actually a thing?

>>50793647
>Yeah, do that. Like Loren wouldn't take the cost of repairing his house out of the CGL profits again. Way to go.
Damn it! I didn't think of that! However I would have thought the Highlander might have fallen through his house into the basement for possible fall damage and a PSR.
Honestly is there anything that can be done about porchbux Coleman?

What kind of mediums/heavies did the comguard use in 3025?

>>50793841

Nope. He got his, and got away with it. Unless he says something racist/sexist to the point where you can sic frothing hordes of SJW idiots on his white male ass, you ain't gonna see him gone anytime soon.

>>50793791
Each TRO has an associated Record Sheet book, such as RS: 3060 for TRO: 3060, and so on.

>Is that actually a thing?
There are several. Currently the most up to date program is MegaMekLab, though most people still use Solaris Skunkwerks, due to its user friendliness.

>>50793876
The ComGuard wasn't really a thing then, so... nothing. Local security forces would likely use common designs for where they were posted.

>>50793906
What? The comguard already fought pirates before 3025.

>finally reading through post-jihad lore
>all these invading clans merging with periphery/non successor states
How many jimmies were rustled when that first came out?

>>50793906
Thanks (apparently the batch of files I downloaded didn't include any of the record sheets)

>>50793791
In general, only a few mech variants will have TRO style writeups.

Variant information most comes from thei record sheets, which detail everything about them, such as armor, weapons placement, criticals, etc.

There are several software programs out there that have mechs and their variants, and can print out their record sheets.
1) Heavy metal pro, which is 10+ years out of date, but still costs $$ to obtain legally.
2) Solaris Skunkwerks, which is 2 or 3 years out of date, but free. User friendly.
3) Megameklab, which is current and free, but not very user friendly.
See the OP for download links.

>>50794090
USE THESE
>2) Solaris Skunkwerks, which is 2 or 3 years out of date, but free. User friendly.
>3) Megameklab, which is current and free, but not very user friendly.
ONLY USE THIS IF YOU NEED TO MAKE SHIPS
>1) Heavy metal pro, which is 10+ years out of date, but still costs $$ to obtain legally.

>>50794019
The ConGuard was little more than a bunch of small "mercenary" forces at the time. The reveal that ConStar had an army in the Warrior Trilogy was a big deal after all.

Who makes better mechs, Steiners or Davions?

>>50795115
Davions, durr. Plot armor.

>>50794519
Pretty sure the Yen Lo Wang is supposed to have a hatchet.

>>50795232
I didn't name it, Vortex did. Found it on his DA page.

>>50795232
muh MWO YLW

>>50795232
You know there are several incarnations of it, right?

File: ghost_bear_dominion_outpost_by_vortex013-dasedq7.jpg (172KB, 1024x673px) Image search: [Google]

172KB, 1024x673px

Another Vortex pic, new as of today.

>>50793841
>Honestly is there anything that can be done about porchbux Coleman?

There was the guy several months ago who was talking about appearing at Gencon with a gun and shooting up the CGL booth. That might work. The "What's up with Catalyst" seminar would probably be a better target, though. Less collateral damage, it's a near-guarantee he'd be there, and since all the attendees are BT fans they're much less likely to interfere in a targeted assassination against the people who fucked up the game as compared to the average con attendee with a hero complex.

But in answer to your overall question: no. Short of killing people who work for CGL, there's not really any hope of improvement.

>>50795115
Steiner. They make all the better mechs of every weight range. Even the Devastator. Better omni production too.

Not sure where >>50795121 comes from, unless he was being sarcastic.

>>50795725
>unless he was being sarcastic
Got it in one. Also poking fun at all those who claim the Suns have the best of everything forever.

>>50795752
How is relaying an objective fact supposed to be poking fun at anybody?

>>50792763

No, that doesn't give them Royals either. In fact by then they're barely getting to the level the IS was at in 3050.

>>50793876

Same as they would use later. Stock (as in -R model) 'Mechs from the Successor States and cached SL machines. http://www.masterunitlist.info/Era/FactionEraDetails?FactionId=18&EraId=255

>>50794376

The Com Guard did exist prior to 3025, but was smaller than what they rolled out after the 4th SW and existed in secret.

>>50794359

HM Aero fucks the calculations for anything bigger than an ASF up on an unbelievable scale and is responsible for pretty much every ship getting different stats every time they publish them.

>>50795232

That picture is of it in Kai's colours with Victor's Prometheus. His version doesn't have any physical weapons, and his father's version has a Claw that at the time was represented by a hatchet.

>>50795752

Suns get all the good Lyran ones but the Thunderhawk and Hauptman, have a lot of (admittedly unstatted) Clan-tech refits, more Clan tech in general, and later add things like the Warlord to their arsenal.

Saying the Suns have better stuff isn't meming, they really do.

>>50795967
>Saying the Suns have better stuff isn't meming, they really do.

That's just what someone pushing a meme would say.

>>50795967
>more clantech in general
Is that a later era thing, like in the late Derp Age when the Sea Jews are selling them gear?

>>50781428
>>50782722
The WVR and TDR are both solid choices. Constant production, survivable and flexible.

I might throw in something like the ARC-2S at the cost of ammo dependence and price. I honestly like the CRDs as well but they honestly don't carry enough ammunition to make a good merc mech in my mind.

>>50796366

No, that's straight from the 3050s on.

The AFFS side of the AFFC hoards the most Clan tech and the NAIS is the first place capable of replicating Clan tech. The Suns is the first to buy or mass-produce Clan tech too.

>>50793841
>Honestly is there anything that can be done about porchbux Coleman?

Send Namaah after him

>>50796477

But she would become addicted to his dick, deck, and generally baller lifestyle, reject Blakism and the Master, and Xin Sheng forever.

>>50796468
Citation? I know the NAIS gets loads of stuff for research, but actual military use would make more sense for units on the Clan front and those were always overwhelmingly Lyran. The units in the Suns half wouldn't even be able to properly maintain Clantech without access to further salvage.

In Field Manual Updates, why were the AFFS regiments that had been left or surrendered in the Lyran area teleported to the Suns half, while the Lyran forces that fought in the Suns half were still left behind? Even the 4th Donegal apparently took up permanent residence on New Syrtis and died in its defense.

>>50796546

>Citation?

Tech percentages for units in FM: P, the Suns has more than a regiment over the Lyrans.

Clan tech replication is straight from the NAIS in the intro to Maximum Tech, and comes from an era when nobody else could do that.

The first Clan-level factory in the Sphere is ExoStar Pinnacle, which happens in part because the damage done by the FCCW (as HB: HD notes) wrecked so much stuff it was economical to rebuild their industry to or near Clan level, which was far in front of everyone else. The other Houses that have access to a Clan-level factory do so only because of a deal with a Clan, not through their own efforts and the next to gain a Clan factory for themselves are the Dracs, after killing the Cats off some decades later.

First to purchase Clan gear is from the Mad Cat Mk. II entry, which states the Ha Otokos sold to the Dracs are the IS downgrade versions from RS: 3060.

>The units in the Suns half wouldn't even be able to properly maintain Clantech without access to further salvage.

The Suns also participated a lot more heavily in Bulldog and took a lot more salvage as a result.

>>50796640

Are you seriously asking why circumstances favoured the Suns a lot more than the Lyrans? What did you think was going to happen?

Been messing around with 3025era tanks. Thoughts?
>Body guard for assault vees or firesupport.
>Defensive unit.

Escutcheon Medium Tank (standard)
IS Introductory Box Set
55 tons
BV: 793
Cost: 1,218,688 C-bills

Movement: 3/5 (Tracked)
Engine: 165 ICE

Internal: 30
Armor: 144
Internal Armor
--------------------------------------
Front 6 44
Right 6 30
Left 6 30
Rear 6 20
Turret 6 20

Weapon Loc Heat
----------------------------------------
LRM 15 FR 5
AC/10 TU 3
Machine Gun TU 0

Ammo Loc Shots
----------------------------------------
LRM 15 Ammo BD 8
LRM 15 Ammo BD 8
AC/10 Ammo BD 10
AC/10 Ammo BD 10
Half Machine Gun Ammo BD 100

>>50781428
A Charger, because if you're gonna build a legend around yourself as a freelancer, why not build it in something that no one would ever expect?

>>50796679
Feels a lot like a Patton.

>>50796647
Never read Maximum Tech, so that's a find.

For the life of me I can't find the rules on orbital bombardment. Anyone have a source for that? Trying to find what's allowed and how it's done.

>>50796785
Po variant; downgraded engine and LRM launcher put in the available space.

>>50796647
>The Suns also participated a lot more heavily in Bulldog and took a lot more salvage as a result.
Dracs took most of that, and the Jaguars were so logistically strapped there wasn't much to take. Plus the Lyrans brought more troops.

>>50796668
I just mean the unit movement doesn't make sense. How did the Davion units practically teleport?

File: METHOD_1.jpg (122KB, 1120x1120px) Image search: [Google]

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Neat, we'll live to see a 'Mech exist.

>>50796943
bit lighter too.

>>50797017
Needs to be 50 tons to fit in a light vehicle bay of a dropship. I think 55 tons also means it only requires 3 crew instead of 4.

>>50796936

StratOps, p. 103.

>>50796952

>Plus the Lyrans brought more troops.

You might want to check the Dragon Roars and Twilight of the Clans SBs because that's not the case.

There's also the part at the end of Operation Serpent when Victor says all the Serpent troops can rebuild to 110% of their starting strength with Clan salvage and anything left over after that will be crated up and moved home to be auctioned off with the proceeds going to benefit survivors of those who died on Huntress.

Three guesses as to who snapped up the majority of that.

>>50796973

>How did the Davion units practically teleport?

Technically they could have done it if there were Command Circuits in place but yes, it is nonsensical for the time frame.

But still more believable than whipping a dozen high-tech regiments out of nowhere because of boneyards over the period of six months when other factions don't even grow by that amount (let alone that tech level) in *ten years.*

TL; DR: it's the Suns, trying to make sense of it is a waste of time since it all happens for OOC reasons.

>>50797042
>You might want to check the Dragon Roars and Twilight of the Clans SBs because that's not the case.
Yes, it is. Check it yourself.

>Three guesses as to who snapped up the majority of that.
Of the Serpent troops, Eridani Light Horse.

>>50797108
> a dozen high-tech regiments out of nowhere because of boneyards

Seriously *what* is the origin of this meme?

Davion units won, to the victors go the spoils, there it is.

Why don't you list the dozen high-tech regiments that shouldn't exist?

Question about character creation in AToW. When selecting a clan caste, are you supposed to pick the caste the player was born into or the caste they were assigned to?

>>50797037
Hmm, didn't know bout the vee bay weight cap. Going to have to rework it some, probably cutting back armor.

>>50797037
Always thought that was an odd rule. bay classifications splitting weight classes just seems off.

Also might be why most of my armored vehicles are 50t or less.

>>50797114

>Yes, it is. Check it yourself.

Lyrans sent 6 regiments to Bulldog, p. 11 of The Dragon Roars. They also sent one Regiment to Serpent.

Suns sent 9 regiments to Bulldog on the same page of The Dragon Roars, including the 10th Lyran Guard which was Victor's personal unit and a FedCom (ie, FedSuns) command at the time. Plus the Kathil Uhlans for Serpent.

You were saying?

>>50797135

>Seriously *what* is the origin of this meme?

According to the FCCW sourcebook, the Suns was reduced to less than 40 regiments due to battle damage. Not 40 units, just that size through losses.

FM: U gives them ~49 regiments of actual strength and attributes this to boneyard refits from Novaya Zemlya and other places on p. 123.

It's not a meme, it's just stupid. Either they shouldn't have reduced the AFFS so much or they shouldn't have rebuilt it so extensively so quickly.

>>50797114

>Of the Serpent troops, Eridani Light Horse.

The ELH has a lower average Clan tech rate per regiment than the AFFS and is a fraction of its size.

>>50797177

Born into. Intended warriors get Trueborn Creche stuff, Frees get Blue Collar, White Collar, and so on as appropriate to the caste of their parents.

>>50797187

I did have a look at that wondering if the engine efficiency from dropping to 50 tons would be worth it or not. The armour loss is pretty extensive.

I'd be tempted to bump it ten tons, if anything. Base it on the Rommel/Patton as an ICE variant and make it a counterpoint to the Axel.

>>50797187
If it's a garrison tank then it'd be ok to be loaded as freighters so it's weight wouldn't matter. Offensive tanks on the other hand care about bay sizes since it's a difference between ready in seconds and ready in hours.

>>50797261
>Always thought that was an odd rule. bay classifications splitting weight classes just seems off.
I guess they didn't want to make 4 internal bay types for each weight class but using a 100 ton bay for a Savannah Master or jeep would be silly, so they split the difference.

>>50797314
>You were saying?
54 regiments of Lyran troops partipated, as opposed to 42 regiments of Fed troops. You were saying?

>>50784590
>>50784568
>>50784555
>how easy it is to milk precum from battletech lovers

File: Comparison.png (50KB, 1052x568px) Image search: [Google]

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>>50797409

What the literal fuck are you smoking? This is the chart from The Dragon Roars that lists the units who participated in Operation Bulldog.

>>50797391
>>50797400
Well, just for the sake of discussion here's another version of it to get to the 50t goal. Lost LRM hitting power and armor but tried to shore up close range firepower.

Escutcheon Medium Tank (Derp)
IS Introductory Box Set
50 tons
BV: 705
Cost: 954,750 C-bills

Movement: 3/5 (Tracked)
Engine: 150 ICE

Internal: 25
Armor: 128
Internal Armor
--------------------------------------
Front 5 36
Right 5 26
Left 5 26
Rear 5 20
Turret 5 20

Weapon Loc Heat
----------------------------------------
AC/10 TU 3
LRM 5 FR 2
LRM 5 FR 2
SRM 2 TU 2
SRM 2 TU 2

Ammo Loc Shots
----------------------------------------
AC/10 Ammo BD 10
AC/10 Ammo BD 10
LRM 5 Ammo BD 24
SRM 2 Ammo BD 50

>>50797344
quality FASA fact checking

>>50797455

Oh, and it makes it worse because apparently I can't count properly.

*FIVE* LAAF units plus one on Serpent compared to *NINE* AFFC units and one on Serpent.

>but muh 54 Regiments

>>50797391
So to clarify, freeborn warriors would be
0: Clan (sub-affiliation of choice) (Not Warrior Caste)
1: Blue collar, White collar, Slave, etc
2: Freeborn Sibko
3: Skipped
4: Tour of Duty, Clan Warrior Washout, etc

>>50797468

I'm more inclined to put it down to that being what the authors of FM: U wanted. The Suns' overall percentages and skills shit on everyone else, and they've got the RATs to back it up.

The ELH upgrade rates are pretty high in a general sense, but the implication I got from that scene in Prince of Havoc was that there was a *lot* of Clan tech lying around and the Serpent forces were getting into each other's faces about who got to keep what with everyone saying they deserved more than anyone else due to the combat they saw.

Victor short-cuts that by saying they can have enough to go home as strong as they came plus 10% with the option to buy at least some of the remainder, which defused the situation. And coincidentally lets the Suns make off like bandits since they appear to be the ones who bought the majority of the stuff when it hit the market.

>>50797509

Yup.

Not sure about Slave though unless AToW actually specifies it, even Labourers should fall under Blue-Collar.

>>50779730
Except destroy an interstellar human union

>>50797455
>>50797481
>what are RCTs
54 Lyran regiments to about 42 Fed regiments.

Make sure to stop puffing before you ask what others are smoking :^)

>>50797636
You've got a point. Counting conventional troops many more Lyrans particulated than Sunners.

>>50797655
*participated

>>50784555

what is the mech that is untextured? i can't tell at all.

>>50797701
Kintaro. The MWO model is pretty different.

>>50797636
>>50797655

1st Davion Guard, 3rd Davion Guard, Davion Heavy Guard, and 10th Lyran Guard are all RCTs according to their force listings so even going maximum trollolololololol and counting support forces has the Suns sending more.

File: Kaskara KSK-0.png (39KB, 601x660px) Image search: [Google]

39KB, 601x660px

>>50797463
I think I'd like this a bit better with a single SRM4 and the twin LRM5s, but I like it.

Are we posting introtech tanks now?

Why do the Jags have so many IS 'mechs and IS' tech in MechWarrior 3? And I don't just mean old Star League designs like the Orion and Champion, but I mean things like IS Omnis such as the Strider, Owens and Avatar.

>>50787243
Because to my knowledge, no other battletech video game has had melee at all. Much less melee with neat visuals to it.

>>50797894

because reasons, that's why
is vidya game, gameplay > fluff

>>50797835
idk why but I thought the bv would be cheaper with the twin srm2's, I see now that isn't the case. I do remember seeing some math breakdown that showed that 2 srm2's would average more damage than a single srm4 but iirc it was such an small increase that it would never really show up.

>Are we posting introtech tanks now?
Why the fuck not? Here's a heavy tank that I made as a annoying BA carrier.-

Gallop Heavy IFV (Standard)
IS Introductory Box Set
70 tons
BV: 1,052
Cost: 3,363,733 C-bills

Movement: 4/6 (Tracked)
Engine: 280

Internal: 35
Armor: 224
Internal Armor
--------------------------------------
Front 7 56
Right 7 46
Left 7 46
Rear 7 30
Turret 7 46

Weapon Loc Heat
----------------------------------------
Machine Gun FR 0
PPC TU 10
SRM 6 TU 4
SRM 6 TU 4

Ammo Loc Shots
----------------------------------------
Half Machine Gun Ammo BD 100
SRM 6 Ammo BD 15
SRM 6 Ammo BD 15
Carrying Capacity:
Troops - 4.0 tons

>>50797782
All the Davion RCTs combined don't outnumber the Lyran troops, and the 10th Lyran Guards are Lyrans too. Being wrong doesn't mean you have to cry "trololol" like you're back on /b/. Have some self respect.

>>50797894

Partly because it's a video game, partly because they really were scrambling for all the gear they could get by the end, including whatever they had managed to salvage from the IS.

>>50797961

>All the Davion RCTs combined don't outnumber the Lyran troops

Suns send 5 RCTs and 4 units with less support compared to the Lyrans' 4 RCTs and one unit with less support.

>and the 10th Lyran Guards are Lyrans too

Except that they're listed as an AFFC unit, were personally loyal to Victor, and are counted as Suns troops at the time.

>Being wrong doesn't mean you have to cry "trololol" like you're back on /b/. Have some self respect.

You're the idiot who decided to try and resort to semantics and bullshit to troll your way to victory, so don't turn around and bitch if someone calls you on it.

>>50797932
Nope. The only time you could "melee" something was through collisions or crude implementations of DFA (did a few of those in MW2, but they were hard as hell to line up properly).

>>50797782
10th Lyran were still Lyran, not Suns. You mean AFFC, but no one has brought them up as it's been a discussion about Lyran and Suns troops.

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>>50797950
Yikes; 1k BV to carry a squad of BA. Still, it has armor for DAYS so it'd be a pain in the ass to see across the map.

>>50797782
>get proven wrong
>act like a cunt
not even impressed

>>50798134
Thats a fun caltrop. Definitely would rather call in artillery strike on it or have a fast SRM boat turret lock it.

Have a cheap fast BA mover.

________
DropOff Hover Transport
IS Introductory Box Set
20 tons
BV: 271
Cost: 310,800 C-bills

Movement: 8/12 (Hover)
Engine: 75 ICE

Internal: 8
Armor: 64
Internal Armor
--------------------------------------
Front 2 20
Right 2 16
Left 2 16
Rear 2 12

Weapon Loc Heat
----------------------------------------
SRM 4 FR 3

Ammo Loc Shots
----------------------------------------
SRM 4 Ammo BD 25
Carrying Capacity:
Troops - 4.0 tons

>>50798068
Troops from the Suns amount to 8 mech commands with around 36 conventional regiments.
Troops from the Lyran state amount to six mech regiments with 48 conventional regiments.
That's the truth, that's canon. You need to deal with it instead of crying like a child and making up excuses.

>idiot
>bullshit
>troll
>bitch
Take your attitude back to /b/, it's not constructive or wanted on /btg/.

>>50798133
Don't bother, he's being either a cunt or salty sue on purpose. He knows he's wrong, hence the tantrum.

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>>50798224
>cheap
Check
>fast
Check

It's a shame it doesn't have a turret, but hovers have enough movement speed that it's not the biggest problem. I kinda would like to see more hovers do the Lightning thing with side-mounted weapons so they can circle slower units and continuously harass them. Would be cool.

Conversely, have an entirely too big and expensive BA hauler. Or, haul three platoons of motorized infantry. Or a metric asston of footsloggers.

>>50798408
I'm seeing less of a BA hauler and more of an angry pinata that, once broken, explodes into angry toads instead of candy.

Have a 31st sentry family sedan / city defense unit.

__________________

Corolla Wheeled Tank (standard)
IS Introductory Box Set
45 tons
BV: 561
Cost: 616,175 C-bills

Movement: 4/6 (Wheeled)
Engine: 160 ICE

Internal: 25
Armor: 120
Internal Armor
--------------------------------------
Front 5 30
Right 5 25
Left 5 25
Rear 5 20
Turret 5 20

Weapon Loc Heat
----------------------------------------
Large Laser TU 8
SRM 6 TU 4

Ammo Loc Shots
----------------------------------------
SRM 6 Ammo BD 15

The Bulldog/Serpent discussion/argument has got me wondering: why didn't George Hasek resurrect his father's regiment?

Adding a reborn 1st Kathil Uhlans would have been a powerful political move in the AFFC/AFFS. And the Haseks are clearly rich enough for such a move.

I remember reading one of the BT books about that Uhlan veteran and even then I thought about it.

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>>50798460
>angry Rotunda noises
Except this is even angrier. And more armored. It's actually a pretty good militia unit, though a bit expensive. I could see this being a police AFV sort of thing in say, Davion space.
>Corolla
Having owned the American knockoff (Prizm) this gave me a hearty chuckle.

Have a light IFV with an effective, yet odd choice of main gun for its primary mission. Also, PAFcheap.

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>>50798296

Wrong. See attached pic.

Lyran RCTs are smaller than Suns RCTs and the Davion Guard have reinforced units. I just spent the last half-hour pouring over force listings and make-ups for this.

The Suns sent 60 and 1/3rd Regiments, the Lyrans sent 48 and 1/3rd.

>>50798376

Bitch, please. The 10th Lyran Guard are listed as an AFFC unit and were directly under the command of Victor throughout. They fully drank the Suns cool-aid.

Oh, and that pic? Doesn't count the 10th Lyran as Suns troops.

In fact if you do count them as Lyran, the Suns *still* sent more.

Now, are you dipshits going to concede the point you should have back when I posted the Bulldog screen grab the first time, or are you going to keep shitting the thread up with your fuckery?

>>50798473

Mostly because the Uhlan survivors formed the core of the 1st Royal SLDF regiment under Andrew Redburn. I don't think there were enough who didn't sign on there to base a new unit around, and making a new Uhlans unit could have been seen as disrespectful to them too.

Besides, he was using the Syrtis Fusiliers as his personal army any way.

>>50798622
>MM1
>effective

>>50798715
>wrong
>left out the 10th Lyran
You did better for yourself when you were quiet. More Lyran troops participated, and the fact you have to hide commands involved is embarrassing and a little cringy.

>>50798715
The 10th is listed as Lyran in every Field Manual I know of. Got anything that says they aren't Lyran?

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYHy5O1x5Bc&list=PLNHm5xM2blqJRdMQlJu1Go8HJmU_uMW_u

Explain this.

Why did they try to showcase Katherine as a brilliant politician when all she did was fuck up and make everything worse at every turn?

>>50798768
>AP ammo

>>50798622
because I hate the scorpion tank and some times you just gotta warcrime
---------
Vinegaroon Light Tank (standard)
IS Introductory Box Set
25 tons
BV: 417
Cost: 325,104 C-bills

Movement: 5/8 (Tracked)
Engine: 125 ICE

Internal: 15
Armor: 80
Internal Armor
--------------------------------------
Front 3 25
Right 3 15
Left 3 15
Rear 3 10
Turret 3 15

Weapon Loc Heat
----------------------------------------
LRM 5 TU 2
SRM 2 TU 2
SRM 2 TU 2
Vehicle Flamer TU 3

Ammo Loc Shots
----------------------------------------
LRM 5 Ammo BD 24
Vehicle Flamer Ammo BD 20
SRM 2 Ammo BD 50

>>50798715
You're off quite a bit. The 3rd Davion Guard lost most of its conventional support during the Skye Rebellion, instance.

>>50798873
>Explain this.

Would you like an apple pie with that?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsLh5u2HJV8

>>50798768
AP ammo is actually pretty decent. Long range, 1d6 grunts killed. For defensive engagements, it's alright. An LRM5 with Frag rounds is probably better though?

>>50798928
>Vinegaroon
I see I'm not the only one that breaks out the animal name encyclopedia when making combat units. I assume you meant to give it inferno ammo? Don't forget the Frag rounds too, if they're SW-era. I forget if they are.

I got no more tonks at the moment though. I guess I could make something.

>>50798847

Even *if* you count the 10th Lyran they don't add another 12+ regiments to their contribution for Bulldog. Which I already said.

You're the one who decided to go all :^) and try to win the argument based on counting supporting regiments rather than just the units involved. It's not my fault you didn't know Lyran RCTs are smaller than FedCom/FedSuns ones, or that a number of the Suns units are reinforced over their usual strength when you decided to go turbo-autist and try to rely on semantics, so just admit you were wrong and move on.

>>50798963

And yet had fully rebuilt at the time. I got everything there direct from the SBs.

It isn't the answer you were hoping for but it is what the books say happened.

>>50798926

FASA writing was big on telling us what people were like rather than showing us what they were like. The genius characters act like borderline retards and the characters that are dumber than them shouldn't be trusted with shoelaces.

Plus her being a deft politician was mostly PR and spin rather than something she really was any way.

>>50799026
I get lazy about mounting specialty ammo in the maker programs. I figure its easy enough to declare/change the ammo type as the game comes up.

Also in effort to avoid existing names and still sound neat I've been known to start using genus/phylum/order names too.

As a final posting, have a generic as fuck ac/20 tank.
------------------------
Helleborus Gun Carrier (AC20)
IS Introductory Box Set
60 tons
BV: 766
Cost: 1,220,000 C-bills

Movement: 4/6 (Tracked)
Engine: 240 ICE

Internal: 30
Armor: 152
Internal Armor
--------------------------------------
Front 6 40
Right 6 30
Left 6 30
Rear 6 21
Turret 6 31

Weapon Loc Heat
----------------------------------------
AC/20 TU 7

Ammo Loc Shots
----------------------------------------
AC/20 Ammo BD 5
AC/20 Ammo BD 5
AC/20 Ammo BD 5

map packs where? Cannot find. Trove/DL links in OP?

>>50799174
An AC/20 with a turret that cheap is a dangerous thing. Especially with that level of armor.

I have a generic as fuck light not!Po as the last thing I can toss up easily. I've posted it a lot though so I try not to do so anymore. It's basically a 45t AC/10 and MG on tracks with 7.5t of armor. I built a whole fluff string for it and have variants stretching back from the AoW all the way to the 3100s. From Heavy Rifle to AC/10 to LB 10-X, to Gauss, to... ? Not sure yet. It's always several decades behind modern tech due to being made by a small company for militias and to fill numbers. It's the first huge fluff/legacy combat vehicle I've ever done, and was a fun project.

>>50799291
Maybe an IS-clan made version mounting a HAG or maybe T-bolt launcher next?

>>50799513
Not sure it would make sense for it to have access to a HAG, but it's a possibility for they very late model. Was also considering Chemical Lasers. I forgot to mention there is a Plasma Rifle version too.

>>50798224
>>50798408
>>50798460
>>50798622
Does anyone else like the unarmed Pegasus variant for shuttling heavy troops about? 12t bay, much speed and hovers over water (local meta loves wet maps).

>>50799633

It's amusing as shit, especially when you're using battle armor. Just shit them out all over the battlefield.

>>50799655
Yep, this.

>>50799151
>FASA writing was big on telling us what people were like
Now that you mention it, this is spot on. It felt like character development happened when characters B and C talked about how much character A has changed.

>>50799731

The corollary to that is Victor being told he's no good a politics, telling other people he's no good at politics, and still being the guy who bought the Coventry relief forces together, made up with Thomas Marik and turns him into a friend while Katrina pisses him off, holds Bulldog together, holds the Huntress relief force together, blindsides the Clan Khans, normalises diplomatic relations between the Clans and the IS, and outmaneuvers Katrina's attempts to become First Lord not once but *twice.* Oh, and he incidentally makes such a good impression on the Bulldog and Serpent forces that a good chunk of them immediately volunteer to defect to him if he wants to force Katherine from the throne, *and then they follow through with the offer later.*

Katrina's political masterstrokes are stripping the borders to invite the Coventry incursion to keep her nobles in line, preventing the LAAF from mobilising against the Falcons which lets Victor do his thing, and trying to ally with the Smoke Jaguars.

And *she's* supposed to be the master manipulator and political genius.

There's not enough wat in the world, and I don't think there ever will be.

>>50798408
The comment about side mounted weaponry got me thinking. VSTOLs can fire Arrow IV while flying, no?
-------------------------
Big Willy Gunship
IS advanced
30 tons
BV: 641
Cost: 1,700,000 C-bills

Movement: 7/11 (VTOL)
Engine: 70

Internal: 15
Armor: 24
Internal Armor
--------------------------------------
Front 3 5
Right 3 6
Left 3 6
Rear 3 5
Rotor 3 2

Weapon Loc Heat
----------------------------------------
Arrow IV RS 10
TAG RS 0

Ammo Loc Shots
----------------------------------------
Arrow IV Homing Ammo BD 5
Arrow IV Homing Ammo BD 5

>>50799970

They can, yes.

You might need to check the rule book as to whether vehicles need to have the same armament on one side as they do the other or whether that's just a design convention though.

I know you have to mirror things on ASFs, DSes, and so on but I'm less sure about VTOLs.

>>50799964
>The corollary to that is Victor being told he's no good at politics <examples>

That's not entirely true. He was shit at politics <early on>, instead focusing on being a military commander. Which is how he fucked up several times early in his career. The way Melissa's death was handled, for example, pissed off a ton of people, especially Lyrans. The implementation of his search for her killer. The whole Joshua Marik clusterfuck. The fact that he ended up using his mother's killer as his own hired goon. Insisting that he's going to nail Omi come hell, high water, or the entire Draconis March succeeding. His decision to leave Yvonne in charge.

It's just that, as he kept fucking up, he learned things. The Coventry alliance wasn't so much his coalition-building as it was people working together against a common enemy, and a bunch of the folks in that alliance weren't super-happy with him at all. Operation Bulldog was his first unqualified success, and we shouldn't forget how much Focht assisted in that. And by the time he got back from Operation Serpent, he really was a decent politician in addition to being a decent military commander.

Victors ability to pick up diplomancy over a period of years (and continually fucking up as he learns) is actually and surprisingly one of the only SHOWN bits of character development in all of Battletech fiction.

>>50800171

The double thing I give him a pass on, DESU. It was a plan he inherited from Hanse and was the best thing they could do on short notice, especially since they really weren't sure the League would keep supplying them with upgrade kits. Also no matter what Victor did Sun-Tzu was going to whack Joshua Marik, plant evidence the kid was a double, and cause all the same problems any way.

Melissa's death I can go either way on. He did miss the funeral, but that because Katrina didn't have her lie in state as a deliberate move to make him late while he dealt with the Falcons' latest attempt to overturn the Truce of Tukayyid, after all.

His performance at Coventry leads directly to the Whitting Conferance and is why he's accepted as Commanding General of the SLDF in all but name since Focht literally hands everything to him and says "Don't fuck this up." Focht even refused the title.

Regardless, they books are still saying Victor's bad at reading and playing politics when he casually wrecks Katrina's shit at the second Whitting Conference, and is supposed to still be bad at it when the Outland Legionnaires start showing up. Also when he welds the early Coalition together.

But to be fair Katrina seems to have legitimately had mind-control powers. I can think of no other explanation for why she was able to get the Royal Court of New Avalon to side with her and proclaim her First Princess even when they were ultra Davion partisans who knew she'd killed Melissa. Or why Vlad goes from calculating ruthless shitheel to bumbling, adoring puppy when she's around.

>>50800171
Victor did get some solid development, but then again he was probably the main character of Battletech for a long time.
Kai irritated me to no end.
Theodore was pretty interesting; I wish he'd gotten more spotlight. His son, whose name I forget, was pretty bland. Regretful, that.
Katherine was just poorly written, far more the character being shaped to fit the plot than the other way around.
Most clan characters were all over the place, but that's to be expected considering different writers and differing views on their exact culture and such. Horse and what's her tits, the old bag who offed Natasha, were pretty all right in my book.

All that said, the whole civil war thing felt really awkward. Katherine and Myndo were just straight up retarded for the most part. At times they felt like caricature villains twirling their mustaches. And yet, they had droves of people following them for no good reason.
Like >>50800303 mentions.

Hey Battletech guys I want to verify if someone knows what they're talking about because I don't play Battletech.

Basically it's another thread, a guy compared a type of ship in the game to "The Clanners from Battletech" because they're fragile but have a lot of firepower and are quick and like to fight from long range.

Is this accurate? Is that what Clan mechs are all about, speed and firepower so they can duke it out from a distance? I think I played like Mechcommander ten years ago and all I remember about it is the sick music and the intro cutscene with the FMV that was hype as fuck, so I can't identify what this is supposed to mean.

>>50800429

>His son, whose name I forget, was pretty bland. Regretful, that.

Hohiro.

He actually comes off as more incompetant than his old man, which is pretty impressive really. Mostly he sits around waiting for dad or Victor to solve problems and then when he does become Coordinator he's promptly kidnapped and mind-broken by the WoB which leaves him incapable of ruling properly for a while and allows the Black Dragons to dig in even further.

The only plus side is that he was a pretty boss MechWarrior, statted at 2/3 when he appears. Of the regular cast from the Clan War/FCCW era only Kai and Phelan are better.

A lot of characters do suffer from the "Only Victor can save us!" thing in that period though. Even ones who should really be more pro-active, like Morgan Hasek-Davion or even Focht himself.

>>50800506

More or less yes. It's more difficult to hit a fast-moving target at long range so more respect is accorded to those who can do so.

Warriors in turn ask for fast things that can shoot a long way and propagate the cycle.

But getting speed and firepower on a machine generally means skimping on armour.

It's not necessarily true in every single situation when you get down to the nitty-gritty of it all but as a general trend it's certainly a thing.

If he's referring just to ships? A lot of BT ships are basically made of spun glass compared to the sledgehammer firepower they wield. So yeah, you want to fight from as far away as possible in the hopes you'll outrange the enemy or that they'll miss while you connect and fuck their shit up.

This design paradigm does change later on but it is an issue with a lot of the Clan ships, which are just refits of vessels that are hundreds of years old and had the same issues back in the day.

>>50800682
That's cool. Very informative explanation man, that sheds light on it entirely. The subject was actually like a pre-1500s naval subsystem for another game, but someone drew a Battletech analogy and I realized I didn't know anything about Battletech.

I'm gonna do a bit of research. One good thing about these general threads is they're all frontloaded af, all the links and such are right there.

Thanks bro.

>>50800506
Clanners are tough, fast, and deadly. They're the trifecta.

>>50800506
Clan mechs are anything but fragile. Take renown mascot mech the MadCat (Timberwolf) prime config for example, a 75 tons heavy mech, armed 2 ER large laser, 2 ER med laser, 1 pulse med laser, 2 machine guns and 2 LRMs all that with 15 double heatsinks that easily keep it running cool, under protection of FF armor which the MadCat prime carry near max allowance for its weight class. Throw that in its max speed of 86 km/h which put it one of the fastest machine in its class. Not to mention, most Clanner items are better than IS ones by 15%-20% and smaller lighter to boot.
Luckily, Clans stuffs are more expensive in gameplays and BVs, furthermore bogged down by rules, and by current releases, almost all factions can field clan stuffs and got some sort of equalizer.

>>50800831
>>50800897

Things that are as fast, tough, and shooty as possible are rarer as a proportion of total designs and for in-character deployment numbers in the Clans than they are for the IS though.

The Mad Cat and Ryoken are hot shit but they're vastly outnumbered by the Adder, Kit Fox, or Thor.

And those definitely pour on the speed and firepower at the expense of armour.

>>50800727

The way BT naval engagements go there are two main tactics as determined by the designs involved.

Most are designed to try and sit a considerable distance back and pound the enemy into dust. Their weapon arrays are massive compared to their thin armour. The other is relatively heavily armoured ships that are intended to get in the enemy's face and rip their shit up. Weapons with shorter ranges tend to hit harder.

Most ships are in the former camp. Only a few types are suitable for the facetanking approach.

I don't know much about real-world naval stuff to say how well that maps to battles in the 1500s though.

>>50801252
Pre-1500s naval warfare is a topic of surpassing obscurity. We barely even know what ships from that era looked like.

>>50801293

If it helps any, BT has retconned the art for so many ships so many times it's arguable what a given vessel looks like there too.

>>50801323
I remember before I even knew that Battletech had an RPG, one of my friends had all the technical readouts and we would read them together and pretend to be arms dealers using Microsoft Excel to make these huge spreadsheets and track dates and stuff to see how much money we were making selling to the Draconis Combine.

Oh man. Those were the days.

>>50801293
Not entirely accurate, but not really too many useful parallels to be made between it and BT

>>50801406
Get back to work on SoS ya bum

my project is taking a while too; keep up the good work

Is BA Narc worth using?

>>50801473
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMNJuSl91qY

>>50801486

Really depends on the type of BA and what you have supporting them.

NARC Purifiers deployed in hiding ahead of a formation of Heavy LRM carriers loaded with NARC-compatible ammo?

Shit yes. But you really need to specialise to that extent to really get the benefits.

As someone newish to the fluff - do all the clans have that weird honour system? If I want to have a bunch of light mechs that hit and run and such do only the DC do that, or do any clans do that?

>>50801796

One of the big concepts behind clan honor is that it developed in part because of the limited resources of the clans and the pentagon worlds - limited, skill-based warfare destroys fewer resources than all-out fighting. That said, clan honor really depends on the clan that's fighting, and who they're fighting. Clan to clan, full zellbrigen, honor duels, no questions. Clan to IS, well, certain clans are more liberal with zellbrigen when it comes to spheroids, for various reasons, primarily that the filthy spheroid freeborns are dishonorable by nature, so why give them the honor of true zellbrigen. I forget exactly which clans were less strict about it, but I believe it was primarily the initial warden invading clans (Wolf and Ghost Bear). Could be wrong though, it's 3AM and whiskey is involved.

>>50801796
>>50801869

So yeah, all the clans have the weird honor system. It's just that whether or not they use it and how depends.

>>50801869
IIRC the Ghost Bears suspended zellbrigen towards mercenaries almost right at the kick-off (when that one mercenary company went underground and only started to do shit after the GB troops had lifted off), but they suspended zellbrigen and batchalls towards all Inner Sphere forces after Alshain.

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>>50797429
What's this "Pre" business?

Also, first Battletech game with a story in 15 years.

>Am I kawaii, uguu?

>>50801526
>>50801486
What are some good Narc/iNarc designs?

Is anyone using it in the DA?

What is the best mercenary battle armor in the Dark Age? In the Jihad? In 3058?

>>50802869
Interesting follow-up question.
Is it really easy for mercs to get a hold of BA? I mean, where do they purchase the things and how would a merc use them?

>>50802966
>Is it really easy for mercs to get a hold of BA? I mean, where do they purchase the things and how would a merc use them?
The answers are, in order, it depends on the era and it depends on the era.

>>50802802

There's not too many things that actually use NARC well. Probably just the Raven and Arctic Wolf, too many things that have it have a payload you don't really want to be risking on a run-in to hit things with a NARC pod. iNARC-wise, I'd say the Tessen and Exterminator make a decent go at it.

It's around in the DA but by then Atremis IV/V is even more attractive.

>>50802869

The only "Merc" BA is the stuff the Gray Death Legion put out, virtually all of it is made and used primarily by the Houses proper. It'd be pretty hard to get a hold of any until at least 3055 but easier with every passing year.

>>50801935

Yup, which makes Omega Galaxy so redundant it's stupid.

"So what makes you guys special?"
"Oh, we do not fight the Inner Sphere using Batchalls, bidding, or Zellbrigen."
"You mean... you are exactly like everyone else?"
"Yes. But it makes us unique, and we must be sequestered from everyone else, because they hate us for failing to treat Inner Sphere foes with honour and respect."
"Are you mentally defective?"

>>50802802
Using Narc I dunno, but iNarc is on the Tufana, made by Regulus, and the Bulwark, made by the FWL.

>>50800303
The double thing was his mistake. He completely misread Thomas' nature, and the benefits the League was reaping from the deal. If MIIO was writing reports he wasn't reading them.

>>50803706

MIIO were part of the group telling him to go with the existing double plot.

Like I say, that was Hanse's contingency plan and, dumb as it may be, the best anyone could think of at the time.

Also irrelevant in hindsight because even if the treatment was working Sun-Tzu was going to gank the kid and blame the FedCom and Katrina was going to secede no matter what.

It was a flashpoint but there were a lot of other characters lighting matches and grinning in anticipation at the same time.

>>50803794
He could have just told Thomas that Joshua had died. Yeah, Thomas would have been sad and wanted concessions but there wouldn't have been a war and Liao would never have taken a chunk of the Sarna March. He planned to anyway since Gemini was only meant to be temporary. The way the League economy was booming Thomas would never have seriously cut their supply off. Huge intelligence failure by MIIO.

>>50803930
Victor was talented in terms of being a field commander. He wasn't a good politician, and I'd argue that as a high level commander he wasn't even that skilled. Look at how surprised he was when the Northwind Highlanders up and said "Fuck the lot of you" over the company store and invasion of Northwind by Fedcom elements.

>>50803981
Yeah I know he was a bad politician. Not half the Clinton his sister was.

I never really read into the Northwind situation. How did he shit the bed on that?

>>50803930

OTOH, about all the characterisation we had of Thomas at the time was that he'd only agreed to the deal because Joshua's life was on the line and he was otherwise eager to let everyone else twist in the wind. He even says that up front to Hanse on Outreach and only concedes when Hanse offers to have the NAIS treat his son's leaukaemia.

In hindsight, maybe things would have been a bit better if Victor had been honest.

That's a big maybe, though.

Sun-Tzu was in the middle of his plot to off his competitor for the League's throne and trigger a war, and Katrina was just looking for an excuse. There are extremely good odds that even if Victor had just told the truth Sun-Tzu's agents would have burst in to the floor of the FWL parliament with SHOCKING EVIDENCE THAT VICTOR HAD JOSHUA MURDERED AND REPLACED WITH A DOUBLE which still gets Guerrero, the Lyran secession, and the Chaos March.

To prevent all that Victor would have needed to defeated Sun-Tzu's plot, in an era when everything was Just As Planned for the Capellans *and* have Katrina act in the least Katrina-like fashion possible *and* hope that Thomas wasn't going to follow through on his original motivations of "Haha, sucks to be you guys." The latter you can probably count on but the former are really going to happen no matter what.

>>50804010

AFAIK, he didn't.

Northwind was partially the result of Sun-Tzu's meddling by sending Loren Jaffray to stir the pot and mostly the result of the local commander deciding to try and turn the Highlanders from mercs into slave soldiers on his own initiative.

Victor gets the blame for it because he gets the blame for everything except Amaris though.

>>50804023
We knew a little more about Thomas, that he was a reconciler and pragmatist. And we knew he knew Joshua might well die anyway, so it wasn't unexpected. Thomas himself admitted as much.

As for Sunny's plot, telling the truth without initiating Gemini would have done that. I mean if we're discounting Liao Space Magic letting things always go right, nothing he or his agents could have said would have persuaded parliament. There is that old Free Worlds saying, "Never trust a Capellan..."
Thomas did what he did because a SAFE agent brought him the news.

Honestly more than Sunny I'd be looking to Word of Blake to somehow rock the boat and make sure a war happens somehow.

>>50804010
I'm mostly pissed off that the powers that be turned the FCCW and the preliminaries to it into a squabble between a mega-evil Katherine Mum-Killin', Loki-Swinging Steiner and the virtuous VSD of the hot women. Having some shade of grey would have been nice.

>>50804023
>which still gets Guerrero, the Lyran secession, and the Chaos March

I'm still butthurt the Chaos March was around for such a short while. It's still one of the most fun places and eras to play in. For example, like in that book about the Epsilon Eridani 'Mech drivers, you could have an actual balkanised planet (there were at least a couple of them in the Chaos March SB) with each faction fielding a company of merc 'Mechs or even smaller units.

>>50804167
I just think it's funny that Victor was completely Lyran and yet got cucked out of his birth nation by his sister. How fucking dumb must the Lyran people be to embrace a New Avalon-born and raised bitch as Katrina reborn? Especially when Victor was born and raised on Tharkad, spoke German first, went to the Nagelring, was assigned to Lyran regiments, and fought in the Lyran state's defense against the Clans?

But the civil war called for Davion units being good, so clearly Katherine had to subvert the Lyrans even though it made no sense.

A more interesting civil war would have been one where the loyalties of the two FedCom halves were flipped. Imagine a Davion Guard fanatically loyal to Katherine.

>>50804133

>We knew a little more about Thomas, that he was a reconciler and pragmatist.

Yeah, but all that info comes *after* Gemini IRL, even if it was backdated IC. On the material we were shown to that time, Gemini was really the best anyone could come up with at the time. It was a shit sandwich but if your options are to eat a shit sandwich or die (at least as far as you know) then it starts looking mighty appetising.

>Thomas did what he did because a SAFE agent brought him the news.

Sun-Tzus case was going to be pretty much iron-clad, pre-Xin Sheng magic or not. It just would have been altering things to look like the FedCom had deliberately killed Joshua to try and cause a succession crisis.

>>50804167

With the FCCW, the authors are just not very good on an objective scale most of the time. BT fiction isn't that bad from a gaming fiction standpoint, but even the best of it doesn't stack up terribly well to fiction in the larger sense.

Beyond that they had invested a lot of time presenting the Suns as the settings' good guys, and making the conflict more gray would have run contrary to that.

The Chaos March is also around a lot longer IRL than some factions are. IC it effectively outlived the Free Rasalhague Republic given how quickly they went from a free state to being a ComStar protectorate then a Clan holding too.

And then when the Jihad tees off it's a merc's market for a while in the IS and particularly in the Chaos March. That goes down the tubes in a big way though, and not just because of the Protectorate.