Challenge rating and levels

>>50711177
Challenge Rating is, in theory, based on the average level of a four person party. So your CR 50 monster (jesus christ) would be an appropriate challenge for four level 50 PCs. Maybe. The other thing you have to understand about CR is that it's wonky, unreliable, and sometimes outright broken.

>>50711230
>average
You mean sum.

CR8 is fit for 4 level 2s.

D&D overvalues teamwork

>>50711285
No, it specifically says average in the rulebook.

>>50711285
Yeah no. A CR* would obliterate four level 2's. Massacre them. CR5 and above are scaled (albeit badly) for level fives with multiattack. A CR8 could have an ability that can instagib a whole party.

Heres an example of a CR 7:
>Young Black Dragon
>AC 18
>HP 127
>Multiattack. The dragon makes three attacks: one with its bite and two with its claws.
>Bite. Melee Weapon Attack: +7 to hit, reach 10ft., one target. Hit: 15 (2d10 + 4) piercing damage plus 4 (1d8) acid damage.
>Claw. Melee Weapon Attack: +7 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 11 (2d6 + 4) slashing damage.

Even here the dragon is averaging 41 damage a turn. Almost over twice the average level twos hp. This is just with its normal attacks. It would take four turns to kill the party. So they have to kill it and its 18 AC in four turns. (Not factoring in the fact they lose about 1 PC a turn.)

Now lets throw in its actual special ability.
>Acid Breath (Recharge 5-6). The dragon exhales acid in a 30-foot line that is 5 feet wide. Each creature in that line must make a DC 14 Dexterity saving throw, taking 49 (11d8) acid damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one.
All PC's get taken out even if they succeed a DEX throw.

tl;dr - No CR 8 or 7 is for a party of 4 level 8 or 7 characters.

>>50711499
Man, I feel real bad for that guy's players.

>>50711499
AC 18 with 120 hp would last about 4 rounds against my players given their minmaxing

>>50711890
>Implying they survive past the first rounds breath attack

>>50712030
>what are hero points

>>50712620
What ARE hero points? Googling brings up homebrew shit.

>>50712789
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/other-rules/hero-points

>>50712789
Fate points more or less for mutants and masterminds.

>>50711499
While I generally agree with you I do have to point out that dragons tend to be one of the more off creatures in terms of CR and are usually more powerful than most things their CR or perhaps even 1 CR above them. And you missed the point that it doesn't even have to make all those attacks at the same target and could possibly take out two or even three level two players a turn if it got lucky.

>>50713365
Yeah dragons tends to be stronger, but it was the first thing that was around CR 8 that came to mind.

>missed the point that it doesn't even have to make all those attacks at the same target and could possibly take out two or even three level two players a turn if it got lucky.
Yeah I didn't quite elaborate on that well enough.

Sticking another CR 8 for reasons.
>TYRANNOSAURUS REX
>AC 13, 132 hp
>Multiattack
>Bite - Melee Weapon Attack: +10 to hit, reach 10ft., one target. Hit: 33 (4d12 + 7) piercing damage. If the target is a Medium or smaller creature, it is grappled (escape DC 17). Until this grapple ends, the target is restrained, and the tyrannosaurus can't bite another target
=Instagib one level 2 character, and even if its a barbarian and has rage on and doesn't insta die. Still needs to make that 17str check.

>Tail. Melee Weapon Attack: +10 to hit, reach 10ft., one target. Hit: 20 (3d8 + 7) bludgeoning damage.
Effectively an instagib against all but Paladin, Fighter and Barbarian.
>50ft a turn
There is no escape. T-rex will massacre everybody.

If you seriously think it should be average and not sum you are saying 1 level one commoner is the same as 100 level 1 clerics in combat terms

>>50715064
It specifically says average level for 4 or so Player Characters.

>>50711285
A CR3 giant crab could wreck 4 level 2s shit.

>>50716039
Eh, that one depends on how well those characters are built and what their stats are. If you are using a low value point buy system with classes that don't shine their best at very low levels then possibly. 4 20 str barbarians though? They'd probably kill it pretty quick.