Flaws in games

>>50710173
>But why do so many people indulge in wilful ignorance, ignoring any and all points made in favour of continuously believing that their preferred system is somehow utterly perfect? It's bizarre to me.

It doesn't really, but arguing on /tg/ is often redundant due to the fact that there is unlikely to be a resolution, it's just people yelling at each other over the internet. As such people either (1) stop participating in those arguments or (2) deliberately adopt uncompromising positions in order to keep the argument going because they enjoy that sort of thing. This adds to the small minority who actually don't see any flaws in x systems to atrificually inflate the apparent proportion of fa/tg/uys to see a particular system as flawless

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>>50710379
>>50710173
Welcome to /tg/. Most rpg players know their game's flaws, they enjoy the game regardless of it. 3.PF on the other hand... well, that's the fault of the community itself. Take a look at /pfg/ and you'll see exactly what I mean.

>>50710173
>I see people talking about shit like 3.PF as if it was made of pure gold

Most likely those people bought a lot of pathfinder books. Realizing that pathfinder is a broken flawed game would mean accepting that they made a bad financial decision.

>>50710464

Would it though? I don't like 3.PF, but even if it's a mechanically flawed system that doesn't mean the fun you have with it is somehow invalid.

And at some level the community seems aware of it. I almost never see a PF game which isn't running with a titanic mountain of houserules.

>>50710173
>But why do so many people indulge in wilful ignorance, ignoring any and all points made in favour of continuously believing that their preferred system is somehow utterly perfect? It's bizarre to me.

As someone who used to be a retarded shitposter who defended his precious pet 3rd edition back in the day, it's very simple.

Why on earth am I going to respond and acknowledge a post that defeats me? If I do that, I have to accept that the system that took me HOURS of reading through and takes me a lot of system mastery to play might be flawed and I could potentially have to learn a NEW system that ISN'T 3.PF. That's a scary thought!

This is especially so because a lot of the arguments over 3.PF are, from both sides, purely autistic. The opposition makes logical, solid points, but often times those points never realistically come up. Casters are super overpowered, but most people who play the game from my experiences tend to focus on low levels, or play in such a way that the casters just simply don't use their potential. Which is why a lot of normies think Monk and Barbarian are overpowered. They've never played with a wizard that intends to and then DOES bend the system over its lap.

>>50710464
Nah, it's more like, you get attached to the ideals of the system. The amount of crunch involved gives the appearance of "Realism", especially when you're a retarded teenager that spends a lot of time finding and making justifications for the wonky rules bits.

>>50710173
If we were to apply that analogy to D&D 3E, the bowl would not be repaired.
It would just have more and more broken bowl fragments added in random places until it's a cluster of junk 50 times its original size with no discernable top or bottom, that can just barely hold the same amount of liquid the original bowl did as long as the DM and players understand its crevices intimately enough to come up with multiple house rules for filling it.

>>50710173
>So much of the time I see people talking about shit like 3.PF as if it was made of pure gold, that it's a flawless masterpiece without any bugs or defects.


Stop being a faggot and imagining things just so you can act like a dumb whining cunt.

I don't think 3.PF is worse for this than most games. You just see it more because more people play it. You get people talking about Exalted 2e, WoD or GURPS in similarly idealised terms.

>>50710863
There's just a few dedicated cunts who get upset about 3.PF being more popular than whatever it is they play. Ignore them.

>>50710642
>>50710878

You seem to be responding rather aggressively to the suggestion of discussing flaws in games.

>>50710173

Because a lot of people who play tabletop games are autistic, and can't separate themselves from what they love. It defines them. Any attack on what they love is thus a personal attack on them, and the autistic shrieking follows.

>>50710513
>>50710464
this and autism.
also never-plays that don't know shit, there's a lot of those here, I wish we could weed them out

>>50710173
Oh look another thread started to argue about a shitty game- my favorite!

You're a retard for comparing a broken system to broken pottery that has been FIXED. Your pic argues that the pottery is better for having been broken, not being still broken.

kys retard man it feels good to shitpost and be right at the same time

>>50710513

I'm curious, what do you feel let you rise past that, since you say you used to buy into it?

>>50711260
But anon, it is people who play games that are being weeded out.

>>50711311

So you didn't actually read the content of the post?

>>50711326

It was actually two things.

The first one is actually unrelated to tabletop. I happen to be more right leaning than left in politics. Not /pol/ levels, mind you, but still enough to notice that the extreme left had a tactic they employed when they obviously ran out of logical and scientific arguments for their stances, where they would go "Ugh! This conversation is over!". I mean, how could I not notice it when half of it is directed at me.

One day though, I just randomly realized that I was doing the same thing whenever I didn't respond to someone who replied to me with a better argument than I could muster up. I would ignore them and think "wow, they're so stupid its just not worth it to respond." I had some other outside factors, but I finally added 2+2 together and started to actually choke back my butthurt and fully read what the opposition was saying and testing it out.

That's what taught me that the system had flaws. I could argue around those flaws, sure, but it was harder and harder to ignore.

The seconds step was me playing 5th edition. I'll skip over the misgivings of 4th for now, but when I played 5th edition, with how fast it was, with how little bullshit I had to deal with, with how most characters were actually better single class than multiclass, it just really dramatically changed my world. I was living in an RPG that had 30 total pages on actual game mechanics, and the rest of it was just things like classes, background, fluff, and spells.

Sure, there were other games out there that I played before. I wasn't one of those "THIRD ONLY NO OTHER GAMES!" people, but the other games in my collection were either of a completely different genre, trash games I dismissed, or even just 3.5 knock off brands. 5th was the one that really opened my eyes to the outside world.

Nowadays, I've been playing Basic Fantasy RPG. I love B/X and the OSR right now as I feel that has a lot of what I really wanted out of a game without the bloat.

>>50711336
yeah, he's just shitposting and baiting.

>>50710173
>But why do so many people indulge in wilful ignorance, ignoring any and all points made in favour of continuously believing that their preferred system is somehow utterly perfect

Anon, here is a thing:
Socrates was wrong. If people want to believe in something, then no amount of proofs, evidences, arguments and even fucking physical violence will convince them that their believe is wrong.

In short - you can't sway their opinion and are just wasting time trying.

>>50710878
Nobody hates it just because it's popular. They hate it because it's genuinely bad in places and the defense force consistently lies about it and uses twisted logic to try and justify those flaws.

>inb4: LOOK HE'S TRIGGERED REEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>50710173
Because the objective of the people pointing out the flaws isn't to just point out the flaws and go "yep, that's a problem." It's to prove the entire system is worthless because of those flaws, and there's no point in even playing it. Most people will at least acknowledge the flaws in their system of choice, but will disagree on their magnitude, importance, or whether they render the system unplayable.

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>>50711520
I dislike DnD because it's flawed AND popular.
If it was just a flawed system it would be like any other game. But since it's the most well known rpg there is, many a new players will consume these flaws with their baby milk and I think that's harmful, for example because the rules read heavily focussed on combat, there are just a few feats not fighting-related, magic ones aside.

And I actually play pathfinder from time to time and would try 5e if there was a bigger DnD community where I live, I just wouldn't recommend it to anyone new and am worried about people that have interest in roleplays, but because of popular media only know DnD as THE rpg.

>>50711161
You seem to be the same dumb cunt who keeps making these same threads just to act like a whiny little bitch because games you don't like are popular.

No one pretends any game is perfect. You just want to get the four other trolls in the same circle jerk thread to complain in hopes of tricking idiots to debate with you.

>>50712151

You're making an awful lot of very stupid assumptions, especially given the thread so far has been anything but that. Thanks for the bumps by the way.

>>50712230
>this thread so far
>the same dumb cunts repeating the same dumb shit

Eat a dick you dumb fuck.

>>50712255

Spouting insults? That's useful contributions to the thread right there!

>>50711510
Socrates was right, anon - his method requires an open mind, however; and that's where things fall apart. You can only teach those who are willing to learn...and that requires wisdom and maturity

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>>50715140
And that's why you're a faggot, because the thread starts with incredible bias, and somehow the faggot OP thinks that any good discussion can come from it.

It's asking for closed minds to remain closed, faggot cunts like yourself who think they're enlightening people by repeating the same shit that's been said years ago, without realizing why people don't give a fuck.

And here you are again, thinking that it's because "people are unwilling to learn", rather than you just being on the same level as a retarded troll who is willfully failing to understand anything beyond their own opinions.

Fuck you, and fuck your high horsed bullshit that comes from standing on top of Mount Stupid.

>>50712048
I'd say it's not as dangerous as you may think. Before I started playing, I knew about DnD, but my first introduction to rpgs was pathfinder, and it didn't take long for me to start seeing it as flawed.

>>50715323

You are amazingly angry without actually making any arguments or specific points about what you're against.

>>50715380
The fuck are you on about, you retarded troll?

OP starts off being a fucktard, creating a strawman of the guy who thinks the system is perfect. That is has no flaws.

There's no such guy. You won't find him.

This is just a repeat of the same old "Wah, game I don't like is popular, help provide me with pointless arguments to go through to try and convince people to stop playing the game I don't like wah" that pops up every now and then because of then intense buttfrustration that pervades the kind of trolls who blame their lack of a group on the fact that they like games no one plays, rather than them being inherently unlikable sacks of shit.

That specific enough for you? Choke on dick.

>>50715493

Man, you must be having a really bad day. You're literally creating things to hate and get angry about that have no actual foundation in reality.

Are you okay dude? Do you need a hug?

ITT:
>Anons don't share my opinion, therefore they must be in the wrong.

>>50715592
Take your faggoty condescension, your patronizing attitude, and your passive aggressive trolling, and shove them all up your ass, you retard.

You can try to perform your damage control all you want, but it's been months of you and your idiot circlejerk doing this same shit. You really think people wouldn't figure out just how fucking pathetic you are?

Seriously. Grab some of those dicks you love to suck, and get them stuck in your esophagus.

>>50715685

The idea that all systems are flawed, and that being aware and accepting of their flaws is a part of truly appreciating a system doesn't exactly seem controversial?

>>50710464
I've spent an ungodly amount on that stupid game. Really tired of it, now.

>>50715691

It's always amusing to be part of some conspiracy. Especially when I have no idea what other threads you might be talking about.

>>50715140
So in the long run he was wrong - people can't be convinced, unless they want to be convinced.
Guess what. They rarely want to. And the guy being eventually killed just to shut him the fuck up should rings you a bell how people are progressively less willing to endure constantly having to hear someone preaching.

>>50715754

People can be convinced, it's just that what you are trying to preach is wrong.

No one needs convincing that systems have flaws. That's not what this thread is about, because there's no point to that thread. It ends in one post, "Nothing is perfect."

That's why OP needed to invent his strawman, so that he could start this faggot thread with a pretense. What he's hoping to convince people of is his opinion that we need to not merely understand, but obsess about flaws, all just in hope that people overvalue a game's criticisms so that they stop playing it.

That's why it's wrong, why people will never listen, and why this circlejerk will continue forever because no one really gives a shit why you think you understand a game better just because you hate it when they like it.

You want people to understand a game? Don't try to inflict your bias on them from the get go.

>>50716213

Man, at the moment I'm just perpetuating the thread to see how deep your paranoid rabbit hole goes. It's fucking great.

>>50716304
How have you not passed out yet? Ram those dicks deeper down your throat, you know that's the way you want to go out, you absolute faggot.

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>>50715323
>>50715493
>>50715691
How adorable! Give us more of your butthurt, you pathetic twat. FEED ME!

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>>50716213
>>50716496
Tell us moar.

Gotten to the point I just ban people who join the game and then complain about the system we are using.

It is not ignorance, I just can not be fucked to care if you joined a 3.5 and want to whine about how it is not gurps or wod for hours.

>>50710173

What planet are you from?

The moment anyone brings up 3.5 or Pathfinder on this board people bitch and complain instantly. Even if you claim to be creating a homebrew system using DnD or similar mechanics as a base people will shit on it out of habit.

People who defend 3.5 and PF on this board are in the minority, nobody except trolls think it is perfect.

>>50719723

3.PF isn't alone in this, it was just an example since it's one of the most popular systems discussed.

Haters are at least kinda easier to understand, it's likely people who decry a game as entirely worthless haven't read it and don't know all that much about it

>>50716213
I'm still not convinced. And no amount of your bullshit is going to sway my opinion. In fact, at this point I no longer even care, because you only reasure me that I'm right saying people can't be convinced.
So nice job making my original point stick out even more.

>>50719723
People who play/enjoy/don't care about 3.PF are the vast majority of not only /tg/, but the wider gaming community.

Only a handful of trolls feel the need to complain whenever it's mentioned. Stop pretending they're a majority, or are even a significant number.

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>>50719822

Oh, Richard Petty's ban expired, I see.

>>50721657

Who?

>>50721822
The assmad motherfucker screaming and ranting about anti-D&D conspiracies.

He pops up in every single thread that dares to say anything against 3.PF. His favorite argument is "Its popular, so anything you call a flaw clearly doesn't matter", and calling people trolls, like in >>50719908.

>>50715370
>implying your anecdotal evidence impresses me
>implying I don't have anecdotal evidence "proving" the opposite myself

>>50715493
>Choke on dick.
>>50715691
>Take your faggoty condescension, your patronizing attitude, and your passive aggressive trolling, and shove them all up your ass, you retard.
>You can try to perform your damage control all you want, but it's been months of you and your idiot circlejerk doing this same shit. You really think people wouldn't figure out just how fucking pathetic you are?
>Seriously. Grab some of those dicks you love to suck, and get them stuck in your esophagus.
the salt is real

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>>50710438
>Take a look at /pfg/ and you'll see exactly what I mean.

You mean /Anime Fetishes and Kitsune General/?

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>>50715691
damn

>>50711422
"Ugh, this conversation is over" is utilized by everyone, is in-built into human psyche and is VERY difficult to overcome even if you are consciously aware of it.

>>50722078
Hey, can I also be this assmad guy?
Because I also am tired of these threads.

>>50723746

What do you mean by 'these threads'?

>>50723746
Don't reply to that guy.

>>50723746
Fuck off, Richard.