/5eg/ D&D Fifth Edition General

I highly recommend the 4e dmg if you're looking for advice on running 5e.

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>>50683120
I true polymorph them.
Ain't no furry.

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Not quite Tucker, but I make sure their warrens are well-prepped. I don't use them that often, though.

>>50682986
So how does Beetle Anon go from being Pink-Hair Syndromed and making cringe characters to being a better player and not making cringe characters while still getting to check all those boxes of the things he likes? Maybe we can figure out a way for him to not make a cringe character but still get the kind of enjoyment he would get out of playing a Beetle-kin?

>>50683120
Filthy coward vermin unless actively in the service of a dragon.

>>50683141
>Ain't no furry
>didn't understand the question
>catgirls

>>50683120
Somewhere inbetween. Not smart enough to tucker usually, but smart enough to have a society with its own customs, system and all that.

>>50683120
>how do you play your Kobolds
I have the most horrifying answer in this thread.
Like kender

>>50683120
The only kobolds I've used were kept by dragon cultists that had instructed them in irregular warfare. The kobolds were grouped in squads of 6-8 with scouts/artillery/leader/liaison in every squad.
Winged kobolds to spot for the scale sorcerers in the dark by dropping glowing rocks on the targets, kobold inventors guarded by dragonshields igniting oil spills with alchemists fire.

KOBOLD DRAGON-HUNTING PARTY

>>50683229
but why

>>50683150
This is about me i guess. I posted about wanting to play a Beetle-person type thing in the last thread. But now I am having an existential crisis about what kind of D&D characters I want to play and I don't even know anymore.

Advice?

>>50683247
Think about what kind of CHARACTER you want to play. What their motivations and goals would be.
Select a race that meshes with their motivations and goals.

Starting with a race/class chassis because "lel it would be cool" usually doesn't lead to interesting characters.

>>50683247
Pick a class. Figure out an interesting backstory for someone of that class. Figure out what race fits that story.

>>50683247
First, It's your responsibility as a player to fit into your DM's setting.

Why don't you try to analyze why you want to play a beetle dude? Do they have some interesting racial thing that others don't have to deal with? Is there an alternate motivation or outlook they have that interests you? You can just take that and reflavor it to whatever race is appropriate.

>>50683136
Is this OP posting this obvious bait or are we just getting a particularly quick asshole up in here?

>>50683247

As far as I can tell, there's no beetle race option in 5e. If you want to play a beetle that badly, find a game that allows that as an option. Don't force your fetishes into the game, it's bad for everyone.

>>50683356
There's at least three of us posting "4e was good" in every thread, Anon.

>>50683150
>>50683247
He should have a discussion with his DM about what setting, and genre, they're playing in and see if perhaps he could play an awakened giant beetle, or maybe play as a cursed humanoid with buglike features, if his DM is shooting it down out-of-hand without a good reason to do so, he should look for a different DM to play that character with.

>>50683229
Wish this meme would die

>>50683366
Oh so, assholes. Okay, just checking.

>>50683356
We are everywhere.

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>>50683247
Play a Beetle Totem Barbarian and refluff your Rage as sprouting useless wings as your skin turns into a chitinous exoskeleton.

Beetle Totem:
>3: While raging, you have resistance to all damage except psychic damage. The spirit of the beetle makes yout ough enough to stand up to any punishment.

>6: You gain the might of a beetle. Your carrying capacity (including maximum load and maximum lift) is doubled, and you have advantage on Strength checks made to push, pull, lift, or break objects.

>14: While raging, you can use a bonus action during your move to pass through the space of a Large or smaller creature. That creature must succeed on a Strength saving throw (DC 8 + your Strength bonus + your proficiency bonus) or be knocked prone and take bludgeoning amage equal to 1d12 + your Strength modifier.

>>50683271

>Think about what kind of CHARACTER you want to play.
I think this is the big issue I am having. I don't know how to figure this out.

I tried thinking of characters i liked in different forms of media, and i thought about what i thought was cool about them, and most of it came down to
>Visuals
>Cool shit they could do

Clearly I am shallow as a puddle.

What is a good process for determining what kind of personality you find interesting? Should i watch some movies and think about what characters I like and/or engage with?

>>50683356
What's bait about it? The 4e dmg is awesome. It doesn't matter what you think of 4e, the dmg has great advice. Having read both 4e and 5e, I like 4es better, and regularly use it when dming 5e.

Looking to run Spelljammer. I've done some basic searching and have found a decent amount of stuff for 5e conversions. Anyone have any other material recommendations / ideas?

>>50683506
Yeah, don't run Spelljammer! HEYOOOOOOOOO

>>50683506
Specifically: What player races would you allow?

>>50683523
Nice surprise box :

>>50683466
Close your eyes.
Imagine an army is ahead of you. They're the enemy. They're the standard fantasy army, whatever that means to you. But you know you can beat them on your own.

Imagine you doing that, from the start to your inevitable victory. Then ask yourself:

How did you fantasize yourself in your power fantasy beating people? Try to replicate that in game. Ask is for help on how to do so.

Note this is a horrible way to generate characters except for your first character.

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>>50683468
There's an ongoing meme in these threads where the first post after OP is a "4e was objectively better than 5e" shitpost, or some variant thereof. While I don't even necessarily disagree that the 4e DMG was a more useful document for new DMs than the 5e DMG is, it was bad timing and poor taste to post that statement when you did.

But you're already fully aware of this, so here's your (you). See pic related.

>>50683506
I'm just gonna wait for a module.
You know it's coming in 5e.

>>50683543
M Y S T A R A
They're gonna give us Hollow World so we can all play monstrous race campaigns legit-like.

>>50683543
I'm impatient and want to run it in the next month.

I'm willing to cook up what is missing myself but I'd really rather not guess.

>>50683466
Try picking your race last.

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>>50683535
>Close your eyes.

>can't read the rest of the post

>>50683243
to ascend, brother

>>50683596
what did dragon ever do to you huh

dragon a good boy he dindu nuffin

what is the best class for a bugbear to play to maximize the reach advantage

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>>50683531
nice smiley face :^)

>>50683584
Kek

So... maybe not related to this thread, but thought it couldn't hurt: the Stout subrace of halflings is "rumored to have dwarven blood", which is why their racial features fairly emulate the dwarf core. Back in AD&D, you had the Tallfellow subrace, who lived in elven forests, spoke elven, and had almost the exact same racial abilities as elves - I think we can fairly suspect similar origins. But, what would the "human blooded" halflings be like?

In the interest of finding out, and taking a similar stab at Tallfellows, I thought I'd post the resultant homebrew here: Tallfellows were made more elf-like (specifically Wood Elves), whilst given traditional D&D generic human fluff, I figured Stronghearts would be the more ambitious, driven, aggressive and martially inclined of the halflings.

Halfling Subrace: Tallfellow
+1 Wisdom
Darkvison
Fey Ancestry
Keen Senses
Fleet-Footed: Increase your base walking speed to 30 feet.
Bonus Language: Elvish


Halfling Subrace: Strongheart
+1 Strength, +1 Intelligence
Schooling: You gain Proficiency with *either* 1 skill of your choice *or* one martial melee weapon of your choice.

Are we ever going to get a str rogue

>>50683623
Either a spellsniper + BB user (Booming blade 10ft away) or a skrimisher type (Monk or rogue) or a knight (New fighter UA) or a PAM paladin.

>>50683657
Is shagging a Halfling more like shagging a child o a midget?

>>50683623
Anything with polearm master + sentinel + tunnel fighter

>>50683543
>anything coming in 5e
do not make me laugh, anon.

>>50683616
he t-touched me...

>>50683687
It's called barbarian/rogue multiclass.

Deal with it.

>>50683699
it doesnt extend your reach on attacks not made on your turn

>>50683724
yeah I just noticed that
hella gay

>>50683716
good meme

>>50683543
Nah anon, Spelljammer is dead. It rated super-low on the setting survey.

>>50683748
But, that's really what you should do.

Not only is it viable, but it's more rogue-weighted than barbarian-weighted and supports grappling and thuggish things quite well.

Any strength rogue is just going to be a lesser, knock-off attempt at trying to make strength viable and failing.

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>>50683774
We'll see senpai

>>50683468
Maybe it does give great DM'ing advice but this thread is about 5e. It's unnecessary, and even if they're doing it out of altruism, which i doubt, it amounts to a shitpost about 5e.

>>50683468
1E DMG, Dungeon World GM section, "Role-Playing Mastery" and "Master of the Game" by Gary Gygax are all offer better info than 4e DMG on running games and groups. After those, 3.5 DMG PHB 2 and PF's Game Mastery Guide are still better than 4e DMG.

>>50683887

Mistyped/...meant the 3.5 DMG 2 not the PHB.

>>50683887
ok grandpa

Starting a 5e campaign on Sunday with 3 level 1 players. My original plan was to have the ship that they all met on get attacked by Sahuagin raiders, but my encounter builders show that anything above one Sahuagin is deadly. Any recommendations on a first encounter and dungeon for level 1 players?

>>50683973
Use Kuo-toa instead of Sahuagin?

>>50683973
Change the raiders hp/attacks and make a weaker version of them.

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My GM is having our next campaign be more "character driven" rather than having it follow a centralized plot (though supposedly he does have some semblance of a story arc in mind), so he wants our characters to have a specific goal in mind. I'm playing a Paladin of Ilmater, but don't really have any idea for what kind of goals he'd have beyond always following his god's tenets. Any ideas?

>>50683973
Rat infestation on the lower decks
Deckhands need their hands un-bit to work the ship
Captain would appreciate it if the PCs would take care of it.

>>50683973
Just nerf their stats dude

>>50683973
Unless they're brand new players, you can either start them at 3 or toss them other NPCs on the boat to control.
Yes I really love how CH 2 of SKT works

>>50684034
>SKT
What?

>>50684047

Storm King's Thunder, current hardcover adventure

How would you stat Yoshikage Kira as a oneshot villain?

>>50684047
Storm King's Thunder, there's a PDF in the megaupload in the OP if you want to see what I was talking about.

>>50684068
Ohhhhhh, care to elaborate on what happens in chapter 2?

>>50684092
thats a big upload

>>50684095

In Chapter 2, the players end up at one of 3 towns, when suddenly, GIANTS ATTACK. To help you out the adventure gives you some NPC allies who can provide side quests for you (if they survive the fight). Some of the towns are harder than others.

>>50684095
Spoiler for people not there yet or whatever
There are 3 different towns you can be in at that point, and depending on which, the players get to control 6 different NPCs along with their characters while giants attack the city. They have personality traits and such taken from the phb, and any surviving NPCs offer the party quests. Fun little way to get the players attached to NPCs. Most of them are weaker than the players would be at that point, but still useful in combat.

Sahuagin anon could probably just give each player a commoner to try and keep alive, along with halving the HP of the Sahuagins.

>>50683929

4e is garbage tier. Combine the 5E DMG with the texts listed and a DM will be better than 90% of sad sacks DMing these days. Most of the people who DM now are sad pathetic losers that want to be useful and needed and are afraid to stand up to their players because they might have a disagreement and get shunned on social media.

>>50684194
ok grandpa

>>50683998
create an institution to help people and stuff, something that endures beyond your character's life

>>50684208

Someday you'll learn, son. LOL!

>>50684194
Grognard smash fun!

>>50683120
When is Wizards going to compile all the UAs?

>>50684247
PHB 2, in 2019 ;^)

>>50684247
I dunno but some anon does it
http://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/Hk7mNdpd

>>50683748

Any time a rogue/barbarian multiclass comes up anywhere, I always see one asshole saying it's a joke, or it doesn't work.

To which I say, have you read the fucking PHB? The two classes actually synergize surprisingly well. Use a shortsword, and even if you're using Strength you still get Sneak Attack since it's a finesse weapon. You also will get the damage bonus from raging. You have Reckless Attack to get advantage (and thus Sneak Attack) whenever the fuck you want it. Rage with Bear Totem, and Uncanny Dodge to half your half damage from particularly "painful" hits from any source of damage (except psychic, but whatevs)

It's crazy how well they actually work together. They probably shouldn't fluff wise, but good god they do mechanically.

>>50684261
Your AC is absolute shit and you get hit by literally everything.

>>50683120
I'm 12 hours into my first ever 5e campaign, and my party's already started violating the geneva convention (mixed alignment party), is this normal?

>>50684194
>I have met every dungeon master

Is Dream of the Red Wizards even from 5e? I can't find the adventured referenced in DoTRW Scourge of the Sword Coast (2-4) in the Mega archive.

>>50684287
Let me guess, torture?

My players did that 8 hours in.

>>50684281
You still get AC from your con score and take half damage, so assuming standard array and a +1 to either dex or con from your race, you have 14 AC, 16 if you short sword and shield (I don't think shield use penalizes rogues in any way but im not sure)

So if a Paladin doesn't need a deity anymore does that mean the only way to become an oathbreaker is for that paladin to think they fucked up?

ie: 3 Int Paladin kills babby gobbos because "theyre goblins thats what you do"
Feels no guilt and as far as their simple mind is concerned did nothing wrong
Doesn't fall
10+int Paladin kills baby Goblins, feels a bunch of guilt, tries to rationalize it, this leads to them falling

Or is it more like it used to be where they'd fall anyway, only the 3 Int one wouldn't know why?

20 int paladin kills baby goblins and is fine because he knows he's doing the right thing

>>50684337
My players did that 3 hours in, they started waterboarding a fucking goblin in the LMoP cave.

>>50684287
Absolutely. PCs will behave nothing like actual reasonable people in every way, always remember that.

>>50684281

Str, Dex, Con. What other stats do you need with this multiclass, because I'm failing to see how any of them help.

You wear no armor and use a shield. Assuming 16 or 17 in Con and at least 15 in Dex at level 1, with a shield that's 17 AC. Pretty good considering you're not wearing any fucking armor. Then you focus on getting your Con up first, and suddenly your AC is rising too, along with health. Follow that with Dex and you're looking at AC 22, and that's assuming you never find a magical shield ever. That's not bad, especially considering you halve pretty much all damage ever, with the option of quartering one damage roll per round.

>>50684356
It was fingernail stuff for my players. They were trying to get a mercenary to spill the goods on who hired them.

Thing is, he told them the truth and they didn't believe him, so the torture went on far longer than was necessary.

I know people don't really like Horde of the Dragon Queen and Rise of Tiamat (or so I've heard).

Is there a place that summarizes what's wrong with it and/or how to fix it up?

>>50684346
That's a bad AC for a bruiser senpai.
You also don't get PAM or GWM anymore, which add more damage than what you get from SA.

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>>50684353
>tfw to intelligent to respond to this post

>>50684379
You're not maxing three stats.
That's MAD as fuck and makes you way worse as a character.

>>50684287
>>50684337
>>50684356
Mine did that by the...3rd? Session of lost mines.
It was hobgoblin bounty hunters they came upon in the woods.
The happy go lucky monk CG that sounded like Mikey from TMNT used his darts to stab under their fingernails and the flesh between their kneecap.
It's an exercise I think most newbies need to get out of their system.

>>50684387
and so you told them they were moving towards evil right? and then they didnt kill the bandit and word spread that they used torture right?

>>50684418
jesus christ please everyone stop responding to this anon

>>50684337
Torture, and killing enemies who'd surrendered. Also Fantasy Napalm.

>>50684437
I didn't mention allignment. Iirc the victim started lying, saying anything to stop the torture, eventually they believed one of his lies, and they killed him. They went off and acted in the lie and it almost got them killed.

>>50684437
nah, my group would kill the bandit so the rumor couldn't spread and then adopt some puppies and orphans to fix their karma
and then ask for their stats to use them in combat

>>50684458
A brilliant response.
As expected of people who are bad at math.

>>50684418

Okay, let's stat this out then, shall we?

So, you start off by picking, we'll say a half orc.

So your stats at level one are as follows, assuming point buy:

Str: 17
Dex: 15
Con: 16
Int, Wis, Cha: 8

Okay. Now, we get to level 20. 8 levels of Barbarian, 12 levels of Rogue. Barbarian will give us 2 ASIs, and Rogue will give us 4 ASIs. We get 6 ASIs total from these levels.

First goes towards raising Str to 18, and Dex to 16. Then the next one goes to Str, raising it to 20. Then two more towards Con, to 20. Then the final two go towards raising Dex to 20. Wow, I maxed out three stats. That sure was hard.

Is the Yuan-ti Pureblood from Volo's Guide overpowered? Magic Resistance seems like a bit much to me.

DDAL05-06 and -07 have been added to the Mega. Working on cleaning up a few other submissions people have sent me, largely AL-related (including third-party AL adventures and a Kobold Press adventure PDF).

>>50684544

Probably, they're very, very strong. Probably top tier along with V.Human and half elf.

>>50684541
>8/8/8
>literally 0 feats
What a brilliant idea!
Sounds like a totally better plan than going straight barbarian or straight ro- oh wait.

>>50684418
Those are literally just the stats a barbarian needs. If you want to troll you should be asking how many kobolds this character could kill

>>50684544
Change the Magic Resistance to Gnome (Snake?) Cunning and they're a bit more balanced I'd say.

>>50683998
End all pain and suffering by killing the gods of pain AND pleasure, erasing those concepts from existence, and leaving everyone numb but "meh" about existence

>>50684573
You don't max dex as a barbarian. You get feats.
You don't max strength as a rogue. You get feats.
That the lost utility of being a tri-stat character is completely lost on you as a reality is pretty fucking funny.
Did you play fighters in 3.5, or did you just not play 3.5 at all?

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>>50684353
I've DM'd a Paladin who fell. Every session he'd try to do something that would break his oath, I'd remind him, and he'd sulk because he couldn't lie, cheat, steal, torture, etc.

Eventually I had The Devil show up, offer him Oathbreaker powers. In exchange he had to do what The Devil said. After signing the pact, The Devil told the PC to behave, and work with the rest of the party to stop a CE douche.

It ended up working out just fine.

>>50684564

So instead of maxing Strength, get whatever feat you need. It's not like you need to max that out, you'll still do more than enough damage through Sneak Attack alone. I was just pointing out that you were wrong about maxing out three stats, which you most decidedly were.

And as for going straight Rogue, you know what that doesn't get you? HALVING ALL DAMAGE YOU TAKE (except psychic).

>>50684619
What, when The Devil was telling him to stop being an asshat, he listened?

>>50684353
They dont need a deity they just need an oath that they stick to

>>50684645
>I was just pointing out you were wrong about maxing out three stats
Yeah? Quote me.
I'm "most decidedly wrong" right, so it should be easy to tell me what I said that was wrong.
You can do that right?

>>50684388


http://thecampaign20xx.blogspot.com.br/2014/10/tyranny-of-dragons-guide-to-hoard-of.html

http://slyflourish.com/greenest_in_flames.html

http://hackslashmaster.blogspot.com.br/p/hoard-of-dragon-queen-index.html

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>>50684616
>but the AC is shit!
>no it's not
>but you need good stats!
>yeah that's easy
>but feats!

>>50684353
A 5E Paladin falls when they break their oaths. 5E Paladin Oaths allow you to do good and bad things, though it's a pretty tough sell in Devotion.

A Vengeance Paladin is well within his "rights" to team up with a necromancer and his band of skeletal minions to track down a vampire who's laying waste to the countryside, destroy a natural dam to cause the river to swell and trap the vampire (taking out a peaceful fishing village in the process), and then torturing ol' Bats in a variety of ridiculous ways, even as he pleads for mercy and redemption, before finally staking his ass.

Previous Paladins wouldn't get away with any one of those things.

>>50684681
The AC is shit if you're optimal, the rest of the build is shit if you're suboptimal and literally and unironically dump every single ASI into three stats.
That you miss the point is fucking hilarious.

>>50684670

You literally said "You're not maxing three stats." Which is factually incorrect, you definitely can do it if you so choose.

Honestly I'd get the one feat, but it really doesn't matter. The multiclass is good enough on its own. God you really are the smuggest faggot, you know that? This is pretty good bait, please, keep it coming.

>>50684658
He got to play in his preferred style, without it breaking his Oath. He wasn't a disruptive edgelord. He wanted to stick with his character, but ditch the stick up his butt.

The real issue was that his playstyle disagreed with Oath of Devotion.

>>50684696
I'd argue that torturing the vampire would break his oath, since it risks having something happen that would allow its escape; it regains enough power to use magic and transform/teleport, charms someone into aiding it, etc.
Otherwise, yup.

I've also considered running an Ancient paladin whose "light" they inspire and protect is fear.

>>50684724
I think you could safely waterboard a vampire and not worry that he's going to get his powers back and escape.

>>50684703
>"You're not maxing three stats."
I'll clarify the intent of this statement with how I would read the statement myself and how I meant it.
"You're not maxing three stats if you have a brain."

You thinking that statement was that you *CAN'T* max three stats is and portraying it as such is a strawman. What was said is "you're not" not, "you can't", with the charitable assumption that the "you" in question has a brain.

Really funny to explain this to random autists on an anonymous imageboard.

>>50684388

http://www.dmsguild.com/product/188928/A-Guide-to-Tyranny-of-Dragons?sorttest=true

>>50684748

Okay, so I fucked up, read what you said wrong. I'll admit that. Either way, you still get good AC, you still halve damage, you still do very good damage via Sneak Attack, and you halve 99% of all damage you take (with the possiblility of quartering one damage roll), and you get one feat, which for most characters is more than enough.

So, I'm really failing to see how it's not viable.

>>50684787
You can do it, it's just worse than straight rogue or straight barb.
I can contribute more to the party as a straight rogue or a straight barb than as your mix.

>>50684787

It's viable, he's just backpedaling and nitpicking.

>>50684353
They become an oathbreaker by breaking their oath, dummy.

Check the oath; was it broken? If so, oathbreaker

>>50684826
Considering that Oathbreaker is hidden in the DMG, it is completely optional. You'd have to be given the opportunity to become an Oathbreaker by the DM.

>>50684804

I don't really see it as worse than either though.

You get more utility over straight Barb through Expertise.

You get far more survivability over straight Rogue through both Rage and your increased AC, along with all the extra health you'll gain with the Barb levels.

>>50683229
>>50683136
>>50683141
>every fucking thread

>>50684857
Yes to both of those points, but 5e is about specialization. In a party of adventurers, you don't need multiple people doing exactly the same role.
You have one guy who is great at one thing you need, another who is great at another, another who is amazing at a third thing, etc to cover as many bases as possible. If you have one guy who's good but not as good as he could be at some task, that's not as valuable to a party as if he were better at covering a role that's not already filled.
There is extreme diminishing returns in a D&D party when overlapping character capabilities and party roles.

>>50684681
nigger i told you to stop responding to that guy, but did you listen?

>>50684826
Yeah but this is going back to the "killin' gobbo babbies" argument from previous editions applied to the 5e "you don't have a deity" Paladins. In theory you're the only person in charge of mandating your power, so I'm asking if breaking an oath is subjective based on the character's interpretation of the Oath.

>>50684905
Yeah, probably. Consider talking to the Paladin how it works though, maybe he has an answer.

>>50684900
and, still, the best class in the game is the bard

>>50684885
yeah right, fucking 4efags and catgirls

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>literally two threads in a row of samefagging himself
You know who you are senpai.

>>50683136
The 4e DMG is truly such a useful book.

I never knew how little I knew about bears.

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Can warlock/sorcerer use metamagic when casting warlock spells?

I'd say no, since it seem analogous to one of sage's advices, pic related. Am i wrong?

>>50684961
Bards bring unique and constant strong buffs to the party and steal spells from casters your party doesn't already get.

>>50684995
Metamagic does not specify sorcerer spells, so you can use metamagic on spells from other classes.

>>50684900

But that's just it, you still get to be the tanky motherfucker that a barbarian has always been. You still have a good AC, you still halve damage; it's just now, you get more out of combat utility with your Expertise skills, and you actually become a slightly better tanky dude when you can choose to quarter damage from, say, a critical hit. And you end up with better damage than a straight Barb because of Sneak Attack. Way I see it, this multiclass is basically Barbarian Plus. It's just better at doing what a Barbarian already does, with extra utility outside of combat.

>>50684603
kill all the gods, as the confliction of the gods instead prevents all of humanity from ever being free from pain and suffering, and so the only answer is to give the entirety of destiny and fate into the hands of mankind, ripping it from the cold, dead hands of the immortal beings that shape our world, and since everyone controls their own destiny, it collectively makes it impossible for anyone to bring about pain or pleasure in their lives, as it is impossible to put oneself above another if everyone has the power to prevent so, yet no one can put another beneath themselves, so everyone is truly equal and unable to accomplish anything.

>>50684281
>your AC is absolute shit
>14 dex, medium armour and +2 from shield
>19 AC
>implying that is shit
Alternatively
>dex barbarian
>ditch strength, no reckless attack and no +2 to damage and grapple is slightly worse but still great, but all the other juicy benefits of having dex
>22 fucking AC with no stealth disadvantage once dex and con are maxed
Since you don't need feats, that's four ASIs that you'll have by level 15, and you can take a feat at level 17. Or you can not max those stats and settle for 21/20/19/whatever AC.
>the sneakiest, angriest bastard
And then we get uncanny dodge, evasion, danger sense, bear barbarian rage and all that stuff so even if you do get hit you honestly don't give a shit.

Even if your AC was 5? You'd reduce a lot of the damage anyway due to rage / uncanny dodge.

>>50684404
You get extra attack AND sneak attack.

1d8+5+2, 1d8+5+2, +Xd6 from sneak attack.
You can use your bonus action for something that isn't making an extra attack. You can use your reaction for uncanny dodge.

Yes, it does less damage than a pure 20 strength PAM + GWM barbarian going for 1d10+19 and 1d10+19 and 1d4+19 and 1d10+19, but you don't need feats to do it and you can use a shield instead, and you get all the rogue benefits that barbarians don't get. The barbarian doesn't get anything good until the really late levels (especially level 20), so you're not losing out by not getting barbarian levels 6-whatever.

>>50685024
You also deal considerably less damage than if you'd gone PAM/GWM and are a less consistent melee combatant, in addition to completely losing your godlike capstone (since you did posit a level 20 build).

You *do not* end up dealing more damage - let me show you some math.

20 barb PAM (not even gonna add GWM)
+15, 2d10+22+1d4+11 = 46.5 DPR assuming all hits and no reaction attack from PAM (which happens all the time)

8 barb/12 rogue
+13, 2d6+14+6d6 = 42 DPR assuming all hits

It's not even close - with GWM the disparity is *MUCH* greater.

>>50685112
>19 AC
So we gave up stealthing.

>>50685112
Oh, and bonus points are possible if you want to ditch extra attack and go get booming blade / green flame blade instead.

>>50685149
You can reduce it to 18 AC and use a breastplate for stealth.

Honestly, strength barbarogue for grappler, dex barbarogue for unlimited tankiness.

>>50685167
Oh, right, just remembered why GFB/BB wasn't a thing.
I keep thinking of it and then reminding myeslf rage won't allow it, but then I forget that again and think of it again. Eh.
Extra attack is nice anyway, barbarian level 5 gives +10ft speed, extra attack and there's an extra rage in there somewhere, might've been level 4.

>>50685167
I'd rather just be a barb and be better/more consistent at tanking and dealing damage, or be a rogue and be better at the other stuff and *not* be in melee, such that the barb tankiness isn't relevant to me.

I'm not saying you can't play barb rogue - I haven't said it once. I've said I think it's worse, and it's worse largely because of the party context of D&D.

>>50685089
Something tells me a god isn't going to let someone utilize their divine powers to kill all the gods.

>>50685119

So you're losing 4.5 DPR for Cunning Action, Expertise on four skills, Uncanny Dodge, Evasion, Reliable Talent, one more ASI, and whatever couple features you get from the Rogue subtype you choose?

Seems like a pretty amazing tradeoff to me.

>>50685241
You're losing much more than 4.5 when you GWM.
I was being charitable to you and not factoring GWM in to make a point.

>>50685254

But in doing so you lose one ASI. What stat is getting lowered when you do that? Is it Strength, because then you're doing less damage. Is it Dex or Con? Because then you're losing AC, and possibly some health.

>>50685241

I'll take that. Danger Sense + Evasion is godlike.

>>50685280
And you can lose that ASI because you're not a retard trying to max three stats.
You leave dex at +2 and get magic medium armor that you don't care about having disadvantage from stealth from because you're a fucking barbarian and that's not your job.

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Bringing this over from last thread:

1) I'd like to make a cheerful brawler kind of character. Can monks benefit from high STR enough to make grappling an option?

2) Related to the first, how would you roleplay a character with high Wisdom and low Intelligence?

>>50685254

Oh, also, what if you choose Assassin as your Rogue subtype? Then you're getting a pretty significant damage boost from that auto crit, provided you're sneaky enough and jump a nigga, which isn't all that hard because Expertise and Reliable Talent are both things.

>>50685222
I think people seriously underestimate it.
Every barbarian ability pretty much synergizes with rogue.
>unarmoured defence
A potential upgrade to light armour.
>reckless attack
Advantage at any time you need it. If you went dex and dumped strength at 14, you can still use it for those times you can't get sneak attacks.
>rage
Extra durability (and damage if you use strength), synergizes with uncanny dodge to reduce damage to a quarter of what it would be otherwise. Advantage on strength checks synergizes with expertise in athletics for grappling.
>danger sense
Synergizes with evasion to make you pretty much ignore the fact dex saves even exist.
>wolfbarbarian/bearbarbarian
Just nice effects.
>ASI
It's an ASI.
>extra attack
Rogues don't normally get extra attack, so this works especially well when they need an extra chance to get sneak attack, not to mention it also deals damage in its own right.
>fast movement
Synergizing with cunning action to allow you to move 40ft, 80ft with a bonus action or 120ft if you use action + bonus action.
>shield proficiency
Rogues don't get this. Since they have extra attack, allows rapier+shield.
>medium armour
In case you didn't up dex to 20.

And from level 5 onwards, barbarian gets almost no damage boost.
>+2 goes to +3, then +4 rage damage
>you get to occasionally roll an extra die for critcal hits, which rarely happen anyway, and sneak attack would double anyway
Those are the only damage increases barbarian gets after 5.

>>50685320
You should not ever expect to consistently surprise enemies.
If you factor in assassin, then I'm factoring in PAM aoo's every round (which is *FAR* more consistent than surprising enemies).

>>50685312
No sensible person would max three stats.

Either max strength or leave strength at 12 or 14 and max dex and then possibly con.

Also, stealth can be the entire party's job. If trying to get a surprise round, everybody trying to get it has to roll stealth.
Otherwise, if the entire party is moving avoiding detection, they all have to roll stealth.

>>50685326
I'm not underestimating it.
I'm making the observation that in a standard optimized party specialization is more valuable.

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If there were, say, a Firenewt Army occupying a small town nearby, what would their flag/sigil look like?

>>50685350
But this is more specialized (Though it's much more versatile in some places suc as with expertise), towards tankiness.
Barbarian is more toward damage but less damagey than certain other classes, and aims to be very tanky but is actually probably less tanky than a dex barbarian-rogue set-up.

However, there's a point at which a barbarian can be too tanky and everybody else is dying around them rather than themself.

>>50685348
If you're doing a party stealth mission it's going to be irrelevant anyway, since someone's going to cast pass without a trace and another person is probably going to give your whole party invisibility.

>>50685319
Question 2? Watch Forrest Gump.

>>50685369
A flame or some shit

>>50685238
Kill all the gods your god doesn't like, and use the powers of those gods to kill the god that gave you powers, and then kill the rest of the gods.

Or maybe the devotion and faith in your plan is so strong that it instead gives you powers, infact the god never granted you powers in the first place and it was only your faith and devotion that manifested as your powers. He feigns taking your powers away thing that it will make you lose hope, causing your powers to disappear, however because he was never the source of your powers, you keep them.

>>50685376
It has 40 less hp and has to use its reaction every turn it gets hit on halving the damage of a single attack rather than making an attack itself, on top of dealing far less damage in general period.

It's even more tempting for an enemy to ignore a barbarian/rogue built in this way than it is to ignore a standard barbarian.

>>50685403
>dealing far less damage in general period
Um have you heard of Sneak Attack

>>50685399
>Or maybe the devotion and faith in your plan is so strong that it instead gives you powers, infact the god never granted you powers in the first place and it was only your faith and devotion that manifested as your powers.
My DM's pretty lax, but that's the one thing he puts his foot down on. Paladins powered by self-righteousness alone just don't make sense to him. Not to mention I'm sure people would suffer were Ilmater to be killed, as he isn't the god of suffering, but suffering for others, Like a martyr.

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>>50685387
Ehh, I don't know. He seems more lucky than wise.
I was thinking more like someone who doesn't really understand academic stuff, but is insightful and has good common sense.

>>50685339

Sure, just saying that it's definitely in the realm of possibility. Even if you don't pick Assassin, the other rogue archetypes are all pretty great choices too. Pick Thief and you basically get a climb speed, along with advantage on Sneaking. Pick Swashbuckler and you're far more mobile in combat, making your hard to hit, hard to hurt dude even more annoying. Pick Arcane Trickster and you can get some spells. Your DCs will be shit, so instead you can just go for utility spells. Pick Mastermind, and... actually no, that one actually is worthless for this.

Either way, while I will concede that a straight Barbarian is better at damage, a Barbrogue is still not bad at it, arguably better at tanking hits, and has out of combat utility, something straight Barbarians ultimately lack.

>>50685444
Please learn math >>50685119

Does a rogues uncanny dodge apply to any form of damage?
If I hit them with a Viscious Mockery can they UD that?
Standing in the radius of Spirit Guardians?

Cause half damage as a reaction sounds pretty fuckin' neato and kinda makes me want to play a tank rogue.

>>50685319

1) They can if you build that way sure. You'll want a high con since your AC is going to be piss poor though. Probably want to go long death monk for flavor and more temp HP.

2) You want to make deep, insightful comments sometimes and generally somehow manage to stumble into the right option all the time. The best way I've seen it put is: "Sometimes, Grok the high wis low int monk would look up at the skies while the party travelled and say "Grok think world big, we small."

>>50685450
I'm not saying you can't have a character concept you like if you like the concept, I'm saying barb/rogue is worse in an optimized party than other options.
There are certainly way worse multiclasses in the game for sure.

>>50685379
Pass without trace is druid/ranger/shadow monk/magical secrets only.
Greater invisibility is bard/wizard/sorcerer.

It's quite possible you'll only have one of those two things, though you might have both if your party is particularly magic-heavy.

A clever DM will set up a puzzle that allows you to still use those abilities but has a reason that at some point you'll still require potentially dangerous stealth checks.

>>50685403
>40 less HP
With the recommended barbarian5/rogue15 split, it's 30 less HP at level 20.
If they take the 'tough' feat, it's 10 extra HP over a pure barbarian. But, feats are a bit of a tricky subject here. I guess variant human for the feat might not be all that bad, though it seems it wants to max dex as soon as possible so a dirty elf might be better.

They'll have such a high AC that the reaction gets more milage as rather than taking 5 hits a turn they might only take 3 hits a turn, so they'll reduce more of the attacks that do hit.
Does mean they won't get a reaction attack, but if they DO get a reaction attack before they decide to dodge their reaction attack would be stronger due to sneak attack.

Against creatures of plausibly high AC, a barbarogue's damage will actually match a GWM barbarian's. Maybe I should find those calculations again.
And, the rogue has a free bonus action to go cunning action and dick about with.

The main issue here is definitely trying to get hit, but it's worth noting a barbarogue has ridiculous grapples.

>>50683687
Mountain dwarf rogue makes for a pretty solid str rogue. You'll primarily be a melee fighter with daggers for mid range combat, but I could see it working out very well, especially if you go thief or swashbuckler.

>>50684905
That's up to the DM. The Oaths have actual magical power, so they may have a will of their own that doesn't care what the paladin thinks.

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>>50683195

>>50685465
Any damage from an attack.
So you can't uncanny dodge a fireball's damage for instance.

>>50685488
In an optimized party you have PWaT and someone with invisibility. Notice it's regular invisibility and not greater invisibility - if you read their spell descriptions there's a reason for that in regard to the "whole party stealth" mission.

>>50685488
>With the recommended barbarian5/rogue15 split, it's 30 less HP at level 20
Oh, thanks for helping me remember something.
Since a rogue's hit die is 8 and a barbarian's is twelve, it's actually *MORE* than 40 hp at 20.
It's a 64 hp deficit.

>>50685517
>PWaT
WHY DO PEOPLE KEEP ADDING AN A
WHAT THE FUCK

>>50685549
Because "Pass Without Trace" doesn't fucking sound right

>>50685549
A A CUTE!
A CUTE!

>>50683998
Free slaves, defeat tyrants, protect the innocent, and try to convert those corrupted by evil away from their dark ways and guide them to the light. That's the goals of my priest of ilmater. Overall has been a fun character to play.

>>50683271
Beetle-anon here. Did some thinking. Tell me if you guys think i am on the right track to make a not-shit character

>Think about what kind of CHARACTER you want to play. What their motivations and goals would be.
>Select a race that meshes with their motivations and goals.

I wrote down some personality traits i would like to play out in situations
>Intuitive
I like the idea of playing a character who is clever and quick witted. Not necessarily book smart.

>Jolly
I like the idea of him being able to be like Gimli is with Legolas, with someone else in the party

>Fearful, but Brave
I like the idea of roleplaying combat where he's shaking in his boots and shouting because he's scared but stands his ground

>Creative
I like the idea of crafting/building stuff. Not limited to objects, maybe spells?

>Honourable, to a fault
I like the idea of his personal code getting in the way of the optimal choice

>Mildly Stubborn
I like the idea that he won't heed the word of NPCs

>Possessive/Greedy
i like the idea of hoarding/collecting things. Something in this pile of junk is going to be useful someday


So i think his possessiveness and creativity probably drive his motivations.
He wants to collect things and wants to create something? or maybe he's collecting something to create something.

Maybe he wants to collect rare and magical creatures to somehow create one of his own?
>Frankensteining Beholders and Manticores together
>Studying them and using magic to create one out of the energy of the cosmos
Or some combination of those 2 ideas.

How did I do? Not a shit character so far?
I still have to figure out WHY he wants to create his own mythological/magical creature.

>>50685539
How the hell are you getting these numbers?

1d12 over 1d8 is +2 health / level

Level 1 health is irrelevant as both start with max barbarian hp which is 12.

Barbarin 5: 12+7*4.
Rogue 15: 5*15

Barbarian 20: 12+7*19

The difference is 30 HP at level 20, or 10 HP at level 10.

But, at level 20, barbarian is probably actually better again because the level 20 features the barbarian gets makes all the pretty meh features before it actually worth it.

>>50685539
>>50685488
Actually in the case of the split you listed, it's 70 hp deficit, since you went 15 rogue instead of 12.
That's pretty huge senpai.

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>>50685393
Something like this?

>>50685612
You're not factoring in primal champion dude.

>>50685539
anon... do you just take max hp every level up? Is your DM retarded? Or is it just you?

>>50685556

Eh? That's how the phrase goes. Why on God's green Earth would you change it?

>>50685629
>>50685623
It's weird I actually had to point this out to people.

>>50685612
Barbs get +4 Con at level 20 bruh

>>50685539

Dude... do some math. Wow, I can't believe this was the guy arguing about all that stuff before.

>>50685613
>>50685623
>factoring in level 20 features

>>50685650
>theorycrafting a level 20 build
>not factoring in level 20 features
>(You)

>>50685650
it's a level 20 comparison baka

>>50685566
I'm looking for something a bit more specific, though those are all things he definitely wants to do.

>>50685650
...

>>50685648
You people are retards. >>50685623

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>>50684287
>>50684337
First session of skt one of my players started torturing captives with lightning hands.

Along with all the murder it doesn't bother me as the DM if they want to do it.

But I make them feel guilty about it for weeks, roleplay the NPCs as confused, screaming in pain, asking the players why they're hurting them.

If they murder a sentient being I have them question their crime. Running through each stage of their decisions.

They've started being a lot more moral.

sometimes I throw in absurdly high level beings in disguise, to see if they piss them off

>>50685601
You've got a personality, but it seems to have some conflicting traits. Figure out how those traits work with each other, if they can synergize or if being an honorable greedy coward is possible. now figure out how he does what he wants to do. It sounds like a back line fighter, somebody who doesn't get up in the danger zone unless he has to: does that mean he's a caster, or a bow user, or maybe a support role?

>>50685663
>>50685664
>>50685668
The theoretical build is not level 20.
Level 20 was just being used for comparisons of hitdice, so I forgot about the level 20 features since I was just comparing hitdice. If you really want to get that far in, we'd start talking about numbers of feats and if those feats go towards increasing con/using tough or what, but that's too much of a pain to calculate.

Because, honestly, if you're playing at level 20 then you might as well just go barbarian as I said above.

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>>50684353
>>50684696
>>50684826
Talking of Oaths.

In what ways can an Oath of Ancients Paladin uphold or break their oath?

Is it fundamentally just about protecting nature and being nice?

>>50685718
>The theoretical build is not level 20
>>50685612
>The difference is 30 HP at level 20
>>50685539
>Since a rogue's hit die is 8 and a barbarian's is twelve, it's actually *MORE* than 40 hp at 20
>>50685488
>With the recommended barbarian5/rogue15 split, it's 30 less HP at level 20

Just stop dude.

>>50685718
if you actually read the thread you'd know that from the beginning of this stupid-ass conversation it's always been level 20

>>50685556
i mean, it makes grammatical sense

If I'm a total beginner to tabletop RPGs, is 5e the best place to start? How is this: http://dnd.wizards.com/products/tabletop-games/rpg-products/rpg_starterset ?

>>50684804
Of course the single classed character is stronger, but there's things the multiclassed character has over either of the single classed options. It's between the two. Better skills than a barbarian. Better toughness than a rogue. But you don't bring a barb for skills or a rogue for tanking. That's multiclassing for you.

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>>50685784
5e is a great system to start with, and the starter set is a great adventure to start with as well (both for players and DM).

>>50685794
>Of course the single classed character is stronger
Which was my point for this entire thread.
Thanks.

>>50685784
yes but don't read /5eg/ thats my advice
do you have a group together yet? if you're all newbies pick up the starter set its really good.
otherwise try and find a group on r/lfg or ask around or something.
5eg is a good starting point, its comparatively simple, widespread, and has few trap options.

>>50685784
It's a fine place to start, but there's tons of good choices at this point. If you want to play 5e you can have a good time, just don't feel beholden to it.

>>50685457
>Assuming all hits for both
>When GWM has -5 to attack

Please learn math.

>>50685753
>>50685751
No, I'm pretty sure it wasn't.
Somebody then proposed on barbarian's half that they would have 40 less HP at level 20, which I assumed was about hitdice, not primal champion (because personally I tend to go under the assumption that level 20 features never come into play).
That's why, if a certain person stops conveniently omitting text, it says >>50685612
>or 10 HP at level 10
Because that's more in the build's region.
At level 10 or 12 or so you've got the core features going (but it works fine before these levels). It's not so great come level 17 however, where all the casters have wish, and at which point you might as well just play a wizard.

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>>50685816
That damage calculation didn't factor GWM.
Explicitly.
It explicitly doesn't include GWM.

Jesus Christ you people are some special kind of stupid.

>>50685829
pic

>>50685667
A specific goal would be hard to give without intimate knowledge of the character and the world. My priest hopes to eventually take his earnings from adventuring home to both build up the church of ilmater there and free all the slaves that are held there. He lived in a city in the Thay kingdom through his youth.

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>>50685829

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>this entire thread

>>50685729
>Kindle the Light. Through your acts of mercy, kindness, and forgiveness, kindle the light of hope in the world, beating back despair.
Be cruel and create terror in the populace. Only then can they know the true face of the world.

>Shelter the Light. Where there is good, beauty, love, and laughter in the world, stand against the wickedness that would swallow it. Where life flourishes, stand against the forces that would render it barren.
Abandon those locales to the darkness that threatens them. You are too weak to help them.

>Preserve Your Own Light. Delight in song and laughter, in beauty and art. If you allow the light to die in your own heart, you can’t preserve it in the world.
Despair and believe that evil shall inevitably win. Your actions mean nothing.

>Be the Light. Be a glorious beacon for all who live in despair. Let the light of your joy and courage shine forth in all your deeds.
Your name should drive terror into those who behold it.

>>50685838
Wait, what the hell
Are you trying to compare 2d6+STR+3/4Rage damage (extra attack) + extra dice on crit
against 1d8+DEX/STR +2 Rage damage (extra attack) + sneak attack?

Because while I can agree barbarians can utilitize GWM and PAM a long way for more damage, without those the sneak attack damage will easily outdo it.

>>50685487

And I'm arguing that the extra utility and extra tankiness makes the Barbrogue overall better, while ultimately not losing much in terms of damage.

There's a lot of retards clouding our argument. Kinda sucks, because honestly, while I thought you were a massive smug faggot at first, ultimately you were able to make your points concisely, and with mathematical backing. So for that, I salute you, even if I ultimately disagree with you entirely.

Gotta go to work now, hope you have a good night.

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>>50685911
God bless

Vote barbarogue president 2016

>>50685885
...

>>50685911
I think it's worse for the reasons I've outlined - mostly again within an optimized party shell.
Have a nice night too bro

>>50685911
>>50685935
As someone outside it, both builds look perfectly viable. Barbarian is definitely better optimized, but not to the point that Barbarogue will be suffering even in late-game campaigns.

>>50684458

>>50685971
It's generally less desirable from a party op standpoint.
Only real point.

>>50685971
>barbarian is definitely better optimized
You see, this won't quell any argument.

I still stand by:
1. Pure Barbarian can use GWM/PAM in order to become more damage-based and will deal more damage, especially against lower AC targets. They also get more rages.
2. Barbarogue is instead tankier, with damage easily compared to a two-weapon-fighter rogue's. A sword-and-board barbarian should become a barbarogue. They also have a different range of utilities.
3. Barbarian has a really great level 20 feature. I personally find some of the barbarian abilities (such as in the level 7-13 area) lacking, however.

And what is 'optimized' anyway? Optimized for what? Damage dealing? Grappling?

>>50685709
Okay, maybe he isn't honourable but he follows a code. Like a religious doctrine or maybe he follows the laws of an ancient civilization he read about in a book.

The idea i had in mind for him being "honourable" was like Eddard Stark's honour getting him into a sticky situation. He couldn't get over his own principles to do the smart thing and I like that conflict.

I also don't know if he would be a back-liner. I prefer the idea that he's a coward, so he's terrified of being in the front lines but he has to be there.
>Can a man still be brave if he's afraid?
>That is the only time a man can be brave
Maybe his personal code requires him to defend people?

So probably someone who seems ill suited to the front line being in the front line? Like a skinny guy in big bulky armour that doesnt seem to fit right.

>Is that a beholder...oh lord thats a beholder its horrible...i regret coming here...we should have never come here...oh it is getting closer...okay...okay...we could just run away...no. Nope...gotta fight it and capture it. Never gonna make my own mythical beast if I just run away...oh but running away would be so easy...AHHHHH! FIGHT TIME IS NOW!
Then he runs into combat screaming with his eyes closed

I was thinking maybe his fear of this stuff is was fuels his desire to make his own Monster/Mythical Creature
>If i make my own, then i know there's atleast 1 out there not to be afraid of.
or something like that. He wants to make his own to know there is a "not scary" monster out there.

Hows that?

>>50686052
Killing things gooder and making things want to attack you so that they aren't attacking others is the role of a barb in a party, and it's a role generally every party wants filled.

What have been some interesting homebrew rules, world building elements, historical elements, or non-Faerun world features that have worked well in your games?

>>50686074
Eh, walk down there, grapple the biggest, nastiest melee creature you can see. As long as you hit one of your attacks and you're a swashbuckler or reckless attacking, you'll still be doing most of your damage through sneak attack despite using that grapple.
See if they're still willing to not fight you while grappled.

>>50686082
Final Fantasy Chrystal Chronicles makes for a really cool D&D game.

>>50686106
You make them carry that Crystal thing to avoid Miasma? Who carries it? or do you give them a Mog/Moogle for that?

>>50686104
Most 5e combats are based around hordes, where you don't want to use your attacks on grappling mooks, but instead on bringing their hp down to 0 as quickly as possible.

Dealing more damage and not threatening uncanny dodge on attacks against you makes you a much more juicy target for the baddies.

>>50686124
Not him but you would have the option for either. The Moogle could carry it but would slow you down, or you could carry it and go at full speed.

>>50686053
I was just saying that you should think how character traits interact, not necessarily that being greedy/cowardly and honorable are impossible at the same time. It sounds like you've got a good idea of what you want though, you can easily choose mechanics off of what you've made here.

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>>50686082
I use a homebrew severity scale for natural 1's. If somebody roles a nat 1 on certain checks, instead of just arbitrarily deciding an extremely poor outcome, I roll the severity dice.

Essentially, they roll their d20. Its a nat 1. I, the DM, then roll a d20 to determine the severity of the failure with 1 being a travesty and 20 essentially being a normal miss instead of a critical fail.

Its to curb potentially being too harsh or lenient on nat 1's. Don't want to punish people too hard, as every roll has a 1/20 chance of getting it anyway. But if it is a (1/20)x(1/20) of doing something horrible, then its more understandable.

>>50686124
You can have your characters do it or have a little NPC do it for ya.
The "civilizations rely on adventurers to not be wiped out completely by an ambient force in the world itself by going forth and collecting things that fuel their protections" is just a really fun and easy to work with setup for a D&D game.

Honestly, the size thing is the most concerning thing there.

You didn't need that feat to grapple large creatures, right?

It ruins the dream of a halfling barbarogue grappler due to the size.

>>50686142
Depends how your DM sees it.
If each monster metagames hard,they will never attack the barbarian, period. That honestly sounds like a stupid idea from a metagame perspective.
From a realistic perspective, a dex-based barbarogue is a naked angry guy with a shield. Otherwise, going strength, it might be a less tasty armoured guy with a shield they'd avoid and I'll admit a shieldless armoured barbarian is tastier than that.
And, you will have fights where there's one big particularly bad creature. As above, the size is an issue,though. Also, being able to prone the target after grappling will effectively subdue that creature until it passes the expertised grapple.

>>50686171
I do that with natural 1's in combat. I have them roll to confirm the crit fumble. If they role AT or BELOW their level, it's just a normal fail. If they roll above, it's a crit fumble.

That means as players go up in level, the likelihood to actually fumble goes down substantially.

>>50685119
You don't get the real picture unless you consider accuracy, crits, and action costs though.

So without further explanation:
Polebarb
>(Main attack)16.5*0.9375+22*.0975=17.61375
>(Butt attack)13.5*0.9375+10*.0975=13.63125
>(Reaction attack)16.5*0.75+22*0.05=13.475
35.2275 if activating rage, 48.85875 with the bonus attack, and add 13.475 for each round you use the reaction attack. So 35-62 each round.

Rogue-barb
>(Rapier Attacks)11.5*0.8775+4.5*0.0975=10.53
>(Sneak chance)0.98499375+(sneak crits)0.10944375=21*1.0944375=22.9831875
44.0431875 altogether.

So it's actually 4.815 ahead on normal rounds, 18.29 ahead when it gets a polearm reaction, but 8.8156875 behind on the round you activate rage. A level 20 barb never has to activate rage though, since you have unlimited uses and it lasts the full minute automatically. You can be always angry. You might want to take Sentinel on the barbarogue. I dunno.

>>50685857
> A specific goal would be hard to give without intimate knowledge of the character and the world.
Well I'll share what I have so far, though I'm not sure if any of it'll be intimate enough.

He's a wide-eyed young man with a lame leg who was abandoned at a church of Ilmater as an infant. Having spent most of his life there, he's a devout follower of Ilmater's tenets, though also doesn't really discriminate when it comes to helping those in need (a raiding orc tribe may be attacking out of necessity after locusts ravaged their crops, for example), and if there's a way to solve a problem without resorting to violence that satisfies both parties he'll pursue it no matter the odds.

The DM's setting seems pretty open-ended. Essentially any and all worlds are interconnected by these magical mists you sail through by boat. We all started at what's more or less a hub-world governed by a council of powerful casters (some of which are characters from our last campaign, this one takes place 20 years later). Once again ruled by a benevolent council, the Citadel is a pretty prosperous place, so I can only assume our travels will be taking us beyond the mist elsewhere, with us returning every so often.

>>50685616
You're choice mate but yea that works

>>50686177
>>50686124
>>50686106
I agree, very cool.

How do the races stat out,
Human/Clavat -
Selkie +Dex +Cha
Lilty +Str +Con
Yuke +Int +Wis

How'd i do

>>50686231
>you are choice

>>50686198
Sure, but that's true of every game.
The smart enemies are the dangerous ones in D&D, and the smart enemies realize quickly that if their attacks aren't doing shit they should switch targets *so long as* the enemy they're faced with isn't something they can afford to ignore (read: not dealing enough damage to justify focusing them first).

How do I make Jesus in 5e?

>>50686150
Ah okay. Well I think some code/law/doctrine that i write myself would be more interesting than just trying to be honourable.

Maybe Strength/Grappler based Ranger with Monstrosity favored enemy. Then just carry like 50 nets.

Background is Sage? Researching monsters?

Throwing in something related to Blue-Mage from FF where he learns and mimics monster spells through research could be a cool way to explain a further understanding of monsters while working towards making his own.

Though I think i inadvertently made a Pokemon Trainer. Admittedly I don't know where he'd keep all the monsters he captures though...

>>50686241
choice mate, atheists

>>50686283
probably a barbarian because of that whole getting mad at the temple and overturning tables.
elf because of the long hair.
background i guess is guild member because hes a carpenter.
DONE

>>50686205
What AC did you use as your standard?
GWM also isn't in that

>>50686239
I agree with those racial stats for sure

>>50686207
Maybe a character goal could be to ascend to become a member of the council, to help prevent unnecessary conflict and to place new laws in place to help those less fortunate.

>>50686301
I was thinking Aasimar Sorcerer with Favored Soul and Acolyte background.

Wizard of the Coast is focusing on marketing D&D to women and gays.

http://kotaku.com/dungeons-dragons-gradual-shift-away-from-monster-boo-1790002540

>>50686356
Is that why there were fags in CoS?

>>50686356
>shows less monster tits
>WAH SO PC MUH LIBERALS

>>50686368
>not liking tits
You are those same liberals tho

>>50686307
AC 19, and no GWM, as the quoted post also was no GWM.

>>50686252
They might be doing more damage, but they'll still be too tough to beat. They'd much rather beat up the wizard at the back who looks like they'd die easier for the damage/support they're giving, probably.

Though, in that case, it's a matter of trying to stop them.

GWM/PAM barbarian would be able to kill them faster in that case, but there are plenty of other tactics to dealing with that as well, including grapples, stuff like sentinel (Which while probably a good choice for a barbarogue given they deal extra damage on reaction attacks, they might be too busy upping their ASIs to get. Might not be too bad for a barbarian to get instead of or alongside PAM, though. PAM+Sentinel would be a good combo if you're losing out on GWM.). Swashbuckler has a taunt ability, but I think that's a whole action and thus maybe not too attractive. Bear barbarian has a 'disadvantage to attack guy next to them' ability, but monsters can get around it.

But I think this plays into what I said sometime earlier, that there's a point where a barbarian becomes so tanky that the rest of the party will die before they do. Which is almost always.
But, eh, being excessively tanky is fun, even everybody hates you for being far too tough, far too fast and stealthy enough to keep hemselves alive the whole campaign but not the wizard. Get wolf totem instead of bear, become a lone wolf except wolf is the best team support and cry in the corner when everyone scolds you.

>>50686390
Oh, and +11 to hit for the rogue +13 to hit for the primal champion.

>>50686405
If it's high to-hit values and primal champion, you're doing something wrong if barbarogue is winning.

Barbarogue should typically do less damage unless it's a high AC compared to your to-hit. I mean, hell,it's a sword-and-board.
Primal champion is just good, and will probably skew things towards barbarian a lot because goddamn level 20 features.

>>50686082
Slavery.

>>50686393
Martials can definitely deal enough damage to make the enemy want to down them first, even if they're tough. Especially when there are extra incentives to do so, like the fact that they have to first run across the battlefield, potentially proc aoo's, that the casters can very easily wall themselves off, etc

>>50686390
>>50686405
I know I had +15 and +13 for a reason... I can't remember why though.
But yeah that's about the math without GWM.
Introducing GWM increases the discrepancy by quite a bit.
I usually don't bother calculating crits in, since even with high dice pools they're still pretty negligible in how much they actually change, but in this case it's almost a wash in how much they'd change the comparison - the barb getting more attacks/higher dice and brutal crit vs the rogue getting SA.
I think the barb actually would get a slight bit more out of crits tho

>>50686289
I appreciate this post.

So, recently coming to terms with the fact that i've attained DM fatigue regarding the campaign i've run rather consistently for almost 2 years, I decided to take a break, also in order to focus on my studies a bit. The guy that runs our L5R campaign has offered to DM while I'm recuperating, and while they've already started, once my exams are over, I'll be able to join in. My campaign has been rather heavy into story, roleplay and worldbuilding for a homebrew setting I've created, so NewDM is running a more traditional straightforward dungeon run instead. Being a role player first and foremost, I decided to broaden my experience a bit and powergame, and I've found a fun build (Eldritch Knight 17/Devotion Paladin 3 with a focus on smiting with two-handed weapons and polearms) that I've already built a reasonable character around. However, since death can be around any corner, and this build is tanky, slow, and melee-oriented, I've decided to set up a backup that's gonna be more fun than functional to play.

Now, considering that the Sun Soul monk variant is essentially to DBZ what the 4 Elements variant is to Avatar: The Last Airbender, I recently approached my DM the following backup idea:

Play Vegeta as portrayed by Team Fourstar.

Considering that my DM considers me a skillful roleplayer, and he knows my reference material, he thinks it's gonna be a lot of fun. Especially considering the rest of the party is currently a halfing trickery cleric, a dwarven forge cleric, and a lizardfolk rogue.

But being a monk alone won't make me a true super sayian.

Since I don't really know where to start looking in the massive list of magic items, any recommendations as to what to try and get at char creation should my current character die before campaign's end? Also, should i consider multi-classing into something like sorcerer so i can get some utility spells to help me out with becoming the world's strongest warrior?

>>50686473
The casters have concentration buffs that buff the martials. They can heal the martials when the martials go down and the threat of AoE attacks is pretty damn big from casters.

I'd still prioritize them over a big-dice-roller, given they could cast hold person on half the monsters at once, allowing the martials to get even more damage.

>>50686522

I've been casting Spirit Guardians and fluffing it as a super saiyajin aura. Me and the other guy at the table who watches anime think it's amusing.

>>50685695
You seem like a real twat.

>>50686356

I've been saying the art in 5e is gay as hell since I got my core books. Masculine females and too much male flesh, ass and abs. More queer propaganda ruining another nerd genre.

>>50686522
You could drop a couple levels in Barbarian for Rage.

How many people in this thread have actually taken a character from level 1 to 20? How many of you never got sick of playing as them?

>>50686566
Oh I would as a mook monster who was metagaming too.
But it's not terribly obvious to a creature on the ground, who perceives threats visually and based on their own experiences. Most things who get hit by a caster fireball and a full round of a barbarian focusing on them that still live are going to perceive the barbarian as more of a threat, for instance, because what the barbarian is doing is far more imminent and powerful (read: dealing more damage).

For enemy casters, what *THEY* should do is obvious - they should stop the raging loony from killing their mooks in most cases.

>>50686645
I've dmed from 2 to 19. I think at the end, everyone was somewhat sick of it. High level 5e really sucks.

>>50686432
>If it's high to-hit values and primal champion, you're doing something wrong if barbarogue is winning.
Normal to hit values and the barbarogue is not winning.

>>50686473
The straight-barb's raw damage rolls is 46.5, but average damage is 48.85875.

The barb-rogue's raw damage rolls is 44, but average damage is 44.0431875.

So, thanks to brutal critical, the barbarian averages more damage than you thought possible. My rogue is using a rapier instead of shortsword though.

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>>50686571
What's wrong cunt? Don't like it when you can't murderhobo around without consequences?

>>50686710
Woah, didn't think brutal critical actually had that much of a dpr impact.
I'm assuming we're reckless attacking every round?
That unfortunately won't apply to the barb's reaction attack from PAM, since it's attacks on the turn only

>>50686567
>Spirit Guardians
interesting, but not quite what i'm looking for

Want to go more with the feel of ki-based attacks, either ranged ki blasts or melee ki-fueled unarmed strikes, as well as the Sun soul class features and maybe some spells through multiclassing for the named attacks

More trying to find magic items that can give me simple hovering, or clothes that add to AC without counting as armor for the purposes of proficiency and unarmored movement bonus of monks

>>50686599
Seems to me like all the man flesh is sort of a fantasy tradition by now. Conan the barbarian and all that.

>>50686746
Naturally. Though it's only ~ 2 DPR. It'd be a little higher with a greataxe. It's almost too subtle to notice.

>>50686648
The problem is if the caster starts throwing wisdom saves at the barbarian.

It might actually be better if the caster was throwing wis saves at the party wizard or cleric.

Though, barbarians are pretty good at con/dex saves if the caster tries to deal damage instead, would resist the damage and have a lot of health.

But if it's a really smart caster, I think they'd go for not damaging but instead locking down the barbarian, and there's not much they can do on that.

I wouldn't say the difference in damage would be absolutely staggering enough to capture all the mook's hearts, though. Maybe a few. If anything, the barbarian might be convincing the enemies to take up more defensive stances (More defence against GWM such as through AC or granting the barbarian disadvantage will lower their attack a lot, or simply being outside the barbarian's melee range). Or, after seeing the polearm master reaction attacks, they instead don't walk over to him and walk over to someone else because they want to avoid taking the reactions, too.

Honestly you could also try comparing the barbarogue to a rogue that deals pretty much the same damage but is much tankier. Just doesn't have whatever the latest 5 rogue features are.
That said, I do feel pure rogues aren't as good as some classes, since their utility roles can be filled in for by others (Say, casters with 'pass without trace'.)

>>50686710
You mean lower to-hit values, right?

>>50686747

I tried to play a Sun Soul Monk, but he died at level 2. Haven't been back to it since. Good luck to you though.

Why is there scatter dice on everything? It should be assumed that my pilots are competent enough to land where they are told to unless they are actively being shot at.

>>50686728
>NPCs crying is a consequence
>lol here's a stealth level 15 is a consequence
Yeah, definitely a twat. You don't know what murderhoboing is.

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>>50686788

>>50686773
That's not insignificant compared to what crits actually to do modify the damage of other classes though.
Crits in 5e are a little sad I think

> Play 5th edition solo using the GM emulation engine
> Had lots of fun basically doing monster hunter but as a ranger with an ak and going full on STALKER/Monster Hunter
> Realized I've mapped out a weird as fuck map due to randomly rolling for everything with a fuck ton of different splat books

I have an ocean that floats in the middle of a desert, forests made of crystals, and a metropolis inside the remains of a tarraque that spans a mounta range, and other shit like a canyon that was a ship graveyard for ships used by storm giants.

If I world build on this, you think this would be an interesting place to run a campaign?

>>50686728
>I make them feel guilty
Oi vey muter
Enough with all the shuldzing already

>>50686825
Dude FUCK YEAH

>>50686781
>playing something at level 2
This was your first mistake

>>50686780
>The problem is if the caster starts throwing wisdom saves at the barbarian
Yeah, which is definitely what they should be doing, and what even mostly dumb ones (like a goblin shaman) are probably gonna do

>I wouldn't say the difference in damage would be absolutely staggering enough to capture all the mook's hearts, though
Certainly depends on the mooks - in most cases they're not gonna be thinking that literally all of them have to swarm one guy. In most cases they'll think "Ah they got that; I'm gonna go for those other guys who my allies aren't surrounding".

>>50686825
>due to randomly rolling for everything
charts, please

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>>50686791
You seem upset friend.

>>50686825
>the GM emulation engine
The what now?

>>50683120
>That path of the Kensei
>Hobgoblin monks can use martial arts with five different martial weapons now

This could not have been any better timing for me.

>>50686825
sounds cool

>>50686791
I hate stealth-mary-sues so much.

'This dragon can disguise itself as a normal person with absolutely nothing to tell you it's an almighty being that should never be confined to such a space'.

Even powerful things should have flaws to them. Being ancient, large and powerful should bring about the problem that they can't easily mingle with common creatures, that they can't move around and enjoy themselves so freely and they can't assume a small form without trying to do a hundred years of dragon fit-in-a-box yoga.

Fuck you Bahamut.

>>50686752

It was balanced before with equal amounts of seductive female flesh that indicated the men were men. 5E is has a definite romance cover/gay slant.

>>50683120
What are some fairly self-reliant archetypes or multiclasses? Possibly joining a solo campaign soon

>>50686388
>he needs bare titflesh
Less (revelation) is more, friend. Leave something to the imagination. Your fetishes are plebian.

>>50686356
But not women gays apparently.

>>50686924
I'm sure you have a better idea of what titillates lesbians than a bunch of dorks living in Seattle, WA.

>>50686916
Conjuraton wizard, thief rogue multiclass.

Conjure up dangerous and deadly items to quickly use.

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>>50686916
BLOOD HUNTER

>>50686854
I used shit from the DMG, some books (Can't remember which) from the Star Wars Saga, some books from anima, and various books from 4th and 2nd edition.

>>50686870
There's something called the Mythic Game Master Emulation Engine, basically a D100 system that randomly generates shit based on what you'd asked a DM. Like if you ask "I peek around the corner, are there guards?", based on a D100 roll along with some factors, it could come up no, heavily guarded, etc. Crits and fumbles only adding more things, but you'd have to be willing to be impartial when it comes to rolling results.

>>50686818
I'm sorry, should I have capitalized "Too Subtle" to make it clear it's a reference?

>>50686949
I would assume that it's fairly similar to what titillates me. Titillating titties.

>>50686916
Dex bearbarba(5)swashbucklerrogue(X).
AbjurationWizard(X)fiendlock(2)
Monk(1)/Moondruid(X)
Tranquility Monk because fuck it.

>>50686747
One of the Aasimar?

>>50686963
Women are strange creatures that are interested in things called "humor" and "personality". In a bizarre Catch-22, lacking these qualities is precisely what keeps nerds like us from getting close enough to a woman to learn this.

>>50686962
I wonder how brutal critical will actually effect the math if I pair barb with champion fighter in a gestalt game...

>>50686916
Battle master fighter, vengeance paladin, nature/life/war/arcane cleric, swashbuckler rogue, and bladesinger wizard could all be considered self reliant and pretty strong. I don't usually multiclassing so I can't give advice on that end.

>>50686969
>>50686916
Just to clarify
>bearbarogue
Tankiness and stealthiness.
>wizardlock
Armor of agathys / arcane ward abuse. Freeze the fuck out of anyone who attacks you in melee, use agonizing blast to take out people when you're not using spells / people being annoying at range.
>monkdruid
Monk level is for unarmoured defence.
Druid is for utility, temporary HP, stupid stuff like pass without trace.

Dex is good, as you may very well want stealth and/or initiative.
Wis is nice because those tend to be some of the save or die things, and you're the only one with perception to do things.
Tankiness is good because you need to survive.
Ranged combat is good for kiting.

Alternatively, assassin bugbear with a whip.

>>50687008
Your'e supposed to gestalt Champion and Open Palm Monk so you can stun six creatures every round.

>>50686984
I'm pretty sure women are capable of physical attraction anon.

Otherwise one must wonder why every romance novel doesn't feature a stand-up comedian who rescues stray puppies.

But we can all agree the female orgasm and gspot is complete poppycock, 4 inch penises are more than sufficient, and 4e was a superior edition of dnd.

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>>50687031
>But we can all agree the female orgasm and gspot is complete poppycock, 4 inch penises are more than sufficient, and 4e was a superior edition of dnd

>>50687031
I got way more geek slizz playing 4E in one year than I have with all this 5E time. Chicks love shifting.

>>50686970
Could work, refluff the Protector subrace from Volo's,and i'd have the levitation without issues or having to wait for high level items or multiclassing

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>>50687031
>>50687052
>>50686984
>>50686963
>>50686949
>>50686924
>>50686356
Fucking hell this is reddit tier shit. Even that article is lifted straight out of reddit, where they're arguing about GG.

Are you cunts the same cunts jesus christ.

What's the best gish build?

>>50687155
Not in 5e

>>50687155
Polearm master bladelock. Either mountain dwarf or variant human.

>>50687155
paladin

>>50685319
>1)

Battlemaster Fighter. Grappler + Tavern brawler. Take all the pushing, throwing, etc. maneuvers.

>>50687152
everybody is the same everywhere

>>50687155
It felt pretty good mixing paladin and red dragon sorcerer with gfb. If your group allows it you could add undying light warlock.

>>50687155
Paladin 2 / Favored Soul 18

>>50687208
Case in point:
>>50687152
>>50686728
>whines about reddit, gets mad about reddit
>goes to reddit, obsesses about reddit, always trying to read up on what reddit's up to, hangs out on subreddits
Literally the same kind of fucker he cries about.

Are there any time-fuckery spells besides Time Stop, Slow, and Haste?

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>>50687152