Is Standard dying as a format? If so, why?

>>50676692
because standard is too fucking expensive for casuals to even be remotely interested in playing at any serious level. Competitors like hearthstone and shit are vacuuming up the lost souls of the TCG market because mtg is becoming too innaccessible for new players.

>>50676692
Because the format has become too expensive.

During the time original Zendikar was in Standard (I believe ZEN-SOM?), the average price of any given top tier standard deck rose drastically, due to a combination of mythic rare over-centralization and the rise of MTGFinance.

>>50676754
Exactly. And prices have not gone back to normal since. Decks these days cost upwards of $300, and consider the fact that this current Standard is actually on the cheaper side compared to many other formats during the last 5 years, especially ZEN-SOM and KTK-BFZ, both of which cost upwards of $500

>>50676692
WoTC, here are some ways to fix Standard:

1. Stop making mythic rares so fucking OP

2. Print less planeswalkers

3. Take action against SCG for sabotaging the playerbase with predatory business practices

4. Stop making mythic rares so fucking OP

5. FOR CHRIST'S SAKE ALREADY STOP MAKING MYTHIC RARES SO FUCKING OP!!!!!

>>50676692
Too expensive and it does not pay off in the long run.

Also wizards is pushing good creatures: the format a bit too hard.

1) Top tier decks cost too much
2) The reselling/trading community drastically inflates the price of many cards that there's an ample supply of
3) Hearthstone and other digital TCGs have taken a lot of MTG's casual playerbase
4) Other formats are typically more interesting to play and build for
5) A lot of players only wanna play with their pals or at FNM and other drafts

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>>50677216
>prices are too inflated

You ain't seen inflated until you've played Yugioh

>>50678758
Yugioh is literally a front for thieves Let's discuss real card games here.

>>50678758
The thing about yugioh is that most of the time they reprint the expensive cards to hell and back. Meanwhile wizards holds back on reprints and everything because

>standard :^)

>>50680879
That's not why reprints don't happen. We have multiple fucking blocks that aren't standard at any given time and they don't print them there either. Are you retarded or just stupid?

>>50676692
They literally stated they don't want decks (((emerging))) that were not strictly intended.

>R+D was too dumb to exploit the granted playspace so we're not going to print any engines at common/uncommon and fuckit /rare"

>>50676692
Yes, because mtg is a terrible game full of increasingly autistic players.

>>50676828
>3. Take action against SCG for sabotaging the playerbase with predatory business practices
What?

>>50676692
Nah, standard will have a revival after the latest rotation change. At least at the FNM level any way.

A Kaladesh deck you make will be meaningful until Q42018. As long as you update any edlritch cards and stuff that's rotating out, you are not gonna spend $400, unless you are thinking over the coarse of several years.

>>50682681
*course

>>50676692
>Is Standard dying as a format?
>If so, why?

Because the entire game, even the cheapest format officially supported on paper that's designed for new players, has become ludicrously, hilariously, horrifyingly expensive.

People tell me GW has gone into maximum overjew but GW look like fucking Oxfam next to WoTC. How the fuck do you even sell someone on Magic these days, that kind of money will buy you so many other, objectively equally or even more enjoyable things.

>>50677216
>The reselling/trading community drastically inflates the price of many cards that there's an ample supply of
This as well, players want to be smart investors because god forbid they face up to how much they're spending on fucking playing cards. They trade and trust arbitrary cad merchants to set a baseline price which everyone uses. The 'astute investors' basically created a cartel to rip them off because they've been spending money on cards they don't want long term, don't need and deep down know they can't afford.

>>50683619
>objectively equally or even more enjoyable things.
Such as?

Magic is fun and the cards will always be there. Do I wish the card I buy at $10/ea to have a solid standard deck won't sink to fifty cents soon as it rotates? Yeah, but that's the price to pay to win a few games.

To me, Magic is a pretty cheap hobby, all things considered. I mean, really - take a step back and look at what, say, $1,000 will get you in Magic and then at Golf, or boating, or any myriad hobbies people have. Fuck, look at how much people blow on liquor every weekend on average.

On the extreme end of the scale, I used to race motorcycles. Now that's expensive. So maybe my view is just a little biased, take it as you will.

>>50682446
If the MTG market had a fraction of the enforceable regulations that any sanctioned market has, SCG would have been shut down years ago and Ben Bleweiss would be serving a 10-year prison sentence.

I really wanted to get into MTG, but the prices are just insane for the paper version. BUT, I thought I'd check out the online client to see if things were a bit better.

>cost $10 to even get the client
>from there, you still have to buy cards (what the fuck is the $10 entry fee for?)
>not even a code card with a physical pack like Pokemon does
>all that aside, the viable standard decks still cost over $250
>looks like it was coded in 2004 and just had basic set updates since then

I guess the best format to start in is Pauper?

I really wanted an alternative to Pokemon while I wait for the new set, but this just looks like a cluster fuck right now.

>>50676692
Because it's too fucking expensive, given how bullshit some Mythic Rare cards can get.
Even worse, there are plenty which are garbage, meaning that people have to crack that many packs again, just to get another fucking Liliana.

>>50683799
You still haven't told me what exactly they're doing.

>>50683795
>objectively equally or even more enjoyable things.
The best comparison for Magic is other CCGs, LCGs, tabletop wargaming and maybe P&P, they tend to attract the same people. I'd also throw in computer games as well.

A gaming habit is 2-3 Standard rotations to start and then makes each rotation look insane after that.

Wargaming, even the most expensive ones, are two Standard decks an army and that army is good for as long as you want it with maybe minor exceptions if you're baselining off a GW game. Call it 2 or 3 rotations too.

P&P is cheap as hell but P&P is cheap as hell compared to nearly any hobby.

LCGs are way cheaper, even getting into Netrunner and buying every single expansion and 3 core sets is around a Standard rotation. Most are cheaper than this.

>>50683795
>$1,000 will get you in Magic and then at Golf, or boating, or any myriad hobbies people have.
One is some pieces of card board, the other is clubs and a fucking boat.

>>50683803
WotC used to really hate the digital front, saw it as competition to their paper product and so on and didn't want to compete with itself.
You used to be able to trade in digital cards for the 'real' thing, but only one complete set at a time, which they used as a reason for why they had to charge MSRP for everything.
Dunno if they still do this.
But yeah, it's an ancient, buggy client. Hopefully their new leadership will help implement codes-in-packs, a new program/platform - which includes pulling the plug on Duels - and some kind of better exchange program if they really want to do MSRP for a digital product.

>>50683951
Clubs drop in value to nothing soon as you buy the fuckers. And a boat is a fucking boat - a god damn money sink you're paying for the privilege to have for whatever reason. The docking fees alone on a typical 20' boat would buy you two or three standard decks.

>>50683975
Nigger 99% of things drop in value when you get them.

The point is, you're getting something more than a piece of fucking paper. A Black Lotus is made of material that cost under a penny to make.

Magic card prices are artificial inflation.

>>50684017
>artificial inflation
That's called rarity, anon
Or rather, rarity coupled with a demand for said rare object, since rarity by itself doesn't do dickshit.
Anyways, the problem with standard, at least from watching the ebb and flow of people in modern/standard events at my lgs, is way too many people think of modern as some kind of 'investment' you'll always get your money back on in case you want to bail whereas standard is just pissing your money away.
I can see where they're coming from, but most of them fail to realize they're setting themselves up in a trap. Sure you can make one deck that will, in theory, last you many years for $700-900, are you going to just want to play that deck?
People making the switch to standard from modern usually did so because they were tired of playing the same handful of decks for months on end, from what I heard.
So it works both ways.
Probably the best thing Wizards could do is drop the MSRP on packs from $4 or whatever the fuck they're at now to $2.79 or something. A finance board won't ever let it happen though, even if it did mean a possible influx of droves.

>>50684101
It's artificial BECAUSE of the rarity. Wizards could get rid of the rarity scales and just have fully random cards in every pack. You wouldn't see a card over $4.

The game would be disgustingly cheap to play, but that's not going to make their (or any other companies) wallets happy.

>>50684245
>dropping the rarity
well, that's just bullshit.
there would be no reason to open a pack then, and limited formats couldn't exist
they just need to print good card at rare, and leave the mythic slot to overcosted cards or cards with weird effect, like they used to do back in Alara.

Because the standard meta is fucking shit at the moment.
There could be a lot of fun and interesting decks, but it's not fun to play with them when you just get wrecked by the same three shitty decks.

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>>50684360
All they need to to is look at the Pokemon model.

The "mythic" slot for Pokemon is typically not playable, but sought after for the cool art and collectibility (and they hold their value over time because of that).

And if there is a playable "mythic" card, it's typically just a fancier version of a standard playable rare. (Ultra Ball costs literally under $1, but the SR version can be upwards of $150).

The only card to break that rule is Shaymin EX. It's $50 for regular and about $80 SR.

>>50683952
>but only one complete set at a time
And you only got x1 of each, didn't you?
No "I have full alliances and x4 fows, do I get full x1 of each on alliances AND 4 fows?"

>>50683975
you can live inside you fucking boat tho.

And a shitty semi-hardtop one to fuck around is like 200 to 1000, motor included.

>>50684101
>That's called artificial rarity
ftfy retard

>>50684245
>not going to make their
But is this true?

I would like to see some hard facts for once, people would buy packs directly from wizards if they had useful stuff in them instead of just drafting, the second market doesn't make any profit to wizard itself outside of indeed just buying booster boxes to crack or sell later.

>>50685205
You "secondary market" idiots have no understanding of anything.

>Why does a vodka distributor sell to a bar? It's not like they make money on the secondary market.
>Why would Nike sell collectible shoes to small retailers? It's not like they make money on the secondary market.
>Why would nestle sell their chocolate to a wholesale retailer? It's not like they make money on the secondary market.

>>50685314
None of your analogies are part of a secondary market for their own genres you incredible moron.

>>50676828
Deciding rarity not by power, but by the needs and wants of limited, would be best.
Selling packs directly, or just printing more, would work too.

>>50685110
Right, you got one set at a time, one card per set.
What's funny is it meant you also had to get all the lands specific to that set before you could cash it in.
It was the dumbest shit. And yet I sank like $500 into it back when I was 16-17.

>>50685182
Anon, I want you to really think over the consequences and design challenges of making a set where every card is the same rarity without making any of them more desirable than another. If the manufacturer doesn't invent a rarity scale, the playerbase will.

You folks also forget Wizards is a business, I think. There's a lot of evidence and research that goes into showing rares and mythics encourage gambling behavior because they reward the same centers. They'd sell a lot less packs if they dropped their rarity scheme.

And hey, it could be worse - just look at the Gacha method Korea/Japan employed in a shit load of card/mobile games that got so fucking out of hand laws had to be made.

Overall, Wizards is a business, but they aren't the evil overloads here to piss in your cheerios and shit in your mouth like they're sometimes portrayed as.

>>50685473
Selling directly would require them setup another complete chain of logistics and support they probably just don't want to deal with.
They already print a fuck-ton as-is.
I think the real problem is Hasbro keeping a tight leash on their WotC cash cow. They won't let them risk anything that could hurt short-term revenues since WotC is about the only brand that's profitable for them.
The main reason I think this is ties to Magic-fucking-Online accounting for a fucking third of their revenue. A god damn third in that sorry state it's in.
It's not all that much cheaper overall to get into, yet it attracts a lot of players - ease of finding matches is probably the chief reason, sure, but people just don't want to pay $100 for a box or $3.79 a pack at their LGS. Drop pack costs, it'll hamper short-term revenues, but it'll likely be better overall.

It's too expensive for casuals and too dumbed-down for fanatics.

>>50682110
Well some reprints did not happen because of standard, Liliana of the veil for example.no idea why she wasn't reprinted in eternal masters either tho.

No need to be rude.

>>50684414
>at the moment

It's been like this for almost a year.

>>50684507
literally just take the pokemon pack model + online client and apply it to magic. That's all that needs to be done.

>>50676692

I think Magic as a whole is an outdated and heavily flawed game and would like nothing more than to see its players migrate to better things. That said, Magic will definitely live longer than I will and standard is not in any way dying as a format. As long as it's the poster child for CCGs people who don't know any better will continue to feed the machine, it doesn't matter how dissatisfied previous customers have become.

>>50683891
Let's assume that instead of cards, SCG was dealing in stocks and therefore bound by the SEC and its rules. Based on solely what we know, the company has committed the following crimes:

>Fraud
>Insider Trading
>Conspiracy to Manipulate Tradeable Securities
>Manipulation of Tradeable Securities
>Conspiracy to commit Racketeering
>Racketeering
>Grand Larceny
>Usury

And that's just what we know about from very shallow investigative reporting. This would be a RICO case that involves the SEC, FBI, and the DEA as well if Chapin's name ever comes up. And probably a few more bits of alhpabet soup on top of it.

>>50686236
>no idea why she wasn't reprinted in eternal masters either tho.
Because wizards generates more hype and revenue from "this COULD be the set where we reprint LotV!" than they could ever get from actually doing it.

Damnation is the same way.

Yes, standard is dead. Frontier is the new master race format, all the mtg youtubers are making videos about it so we're legit!

Heres my ideas for making standard a bit better.

>Stop making the pushed/meta cards all rares and mythics, make commons and uncommons not dogshit 90% of the time

>Give power back to non-creature spells, people are starting to get sick of Creatures:the Midranging

>Fix your garbage promos. Oh geeee I wonder why FMN attendance was super high when Path and Serum Visions were promos?

Rate

>>50676692
I'm playing STOMR in STANDARD for UNDER SEVENTLY BCKS

THIS IS THE WILEDES RIDE IM BEEN ON FORA LING TMIE

>>50687068
>>Give power back to non-creature spells, people are starting to get sick of Creatures:the Midranging
Well, the move towards a creature focused format is due largely to ensuring there's interactivity, though they've fucked up with red - black is far and away the best removal color in standard at the moment.

I agree with the promos, they've been pretty shit.

As well as more good commons and uncommons. They don't need to do anything fancy, in keeping with their design philosophy of making things simple at the common rarities, but just make them not shit.
Like, there's no fucking reason at all for the new counterspell to be a god damn rare other than greed. Should've been uncommon.

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>>50687683
>Like, there's no fucking reason at all for the new counterspell to be a god damn rare other than greed
Fucking agreed.

What was their shitty excuse for making commons shit and rares amazing? "The more complicated card the higher the rarity"?

What a load of shit. I've seen more complicated cards on a fucking Kaladesh common.

>>50687683
If you mean Disallow, it's rare for complexity issues, as were Stifle, Trickbind, and Voidslime before it. The precedent for that at rare is fine.

What really bogged down the game to Creatures: The Midranging can be tied directly to Sam Stoddard and his philosophy on design: that removal spells should never be cheaper than the threats they can answer, because that's "an undue constraint on design space".

We were not wrong for letting him try it. We were wrong for seeing what it got us, and not shutting it down there and then. And now we've got people who see the massive board clogs from a CoCo mirror and have deluded themselves into thinking "this was how magic was always supposed to be played"

>>50687332
in english?

Yet people wonder why people are flocking to Pokemon.

People are ditching the cool cards and lore of MTG because Wizards is THAT fucking shit at running their business.

Meanwhile Pokemon continues to be Fanservice: The Game albeit a simpler game in general.

>>50687892
>we
>and not shutting it down there and then
i can just imagine anon knocking on sam stoddard's door crying out "STOP THIS NOW" while the bald fuck shrugs

how much power do you think you have

>>50676692
yes

the only non dying format currently is EDH but thats only because most people are fleeing modern and standard. simply put the problem is that standard is too expensive to keep up with and is also expensive to get into. not to mention most long time players are still pissed about things like CoCo, siege rhino, and other such faggotry like the khans block plus standard is honestly just boring as fuck right now

>>50676828
Just get rid of mythic rarity, boom fixed 80% of the problem.

>>50676828
>3. Take action against SCG for sabotaging the playerbase with predatory business practices
this, things like kike city games are actively killing magic in general not just standard

>>50687939
You know what I meant. There needed to be a significant backlash from the players once we realized how boring Stoddardian Design made the game, and people just sat and kept eating shit because they assumed "WotC will figure it out on their own".

Spoiler alert, wizards doesn't know to do shit unless you make a stink about it. It's a big reason why the alt-left was able to get their hooks into the company as deeply as it did.

>>50676731
No... many just go play commander shit.

>>50683803
X M A G E

yes its dying but mostly because of cost and how dumb fuckingly OP mythic rares are

honestly EDH is the best format by far anyway and a budget EDH deck is easily competitive in the format

>>50685314
someone does not know what secondary market means

>>50686236
Just wait for Modern Masters 2017. Wizards explicitly stated that it was going to focus on Innistrad and Ravnica.

Wizards can't afford to just tank prices on the secondary market through reprints and risk having to make a new Reserved List because neck beard collectors will whine about "muh investments" again.

>>50686647
Anon you still haven't told me what they're doing
Give me some fucking links or something to articles.
>>50687892
What's sad is it's completely fucked red. When's the last time a deck with red as its main color has done shit in standard?

>>50688000
>able to get their hooks into the company
those are experts at raising the stink after all...

>>50686647
It really is disgusting to think about. It's why I have never bought a single thing from them. It doesn't hurt them at all and I still get screwed by their manipulations effect on other sellers but I won't give them my money.

>>50683891
not him but kike city games hoards cares and engages in buy outs to artificially inflate the market and control the flow of cards. if your looking at a card that costs a bunch of money 90% of the time its because kike city games )or another entity like it, there are a few but they are the most well known) are involved in making it that way

>>50687892
>>50688000
Just a clarification. Sam Stoddard is in development, not design. A lot of the complaints people have about design is actually about development.

>>50687068
>>Fix your garbage promos. Oh geeee I wonder why FMN attendance was super high when Path and Serum Visions were promos?
oh my god fuck i still cant believe WotC doesnt do this

>>50688157
So what, would you say they were the reason Metallurgic Summonings jumped to $15 overnight for no god damn reason?

>>50688097
tanking the price on the secondary market would lose a fraction of the players that those formats would gain. if i had a dollar for every time ive seen someone wanting to get into modern or legacy that couldnt because of the price i would have enough money to build multiple top tier legacy decks

>>50682153
>They literally stated they don't want decks (((emerging))) that were not strictly intended.
Sauce?

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>>50688184
wut?

>>50688238
Most modern players like the barrier to entry to try and keep it as a cool kids club.
>>50688270
Look at the price history

>>50688238
So much this. For every autist who gets pissed off and quit because there cardboard is now even more worthless you'd gain 5 or more people who can now afford your eternal formats.

And what most those autist don't seem to realize is just because your 75 pieces of cardboard are worth 1000$ you won't ever get that out of it. If you get 600$ out of it you are lucky. This is from someone who has actively tried to sell decks/cards, it's fucking hard and no one wants to pay you what shit is "worth".

>>50686647
This is all really interesting and I want to read more about it. Share your links.

>>50688314
>This is from someone who has actively tried to sell decks/cards, it's fucking hard and no one wants to pay you what shit is "worth".

I've tried to say this so often to modern players. Modern cards are typically very low trade volume and most prices are set online where you have a larger audience willing to pay more money. At your LGS, people are going to be reluctant to drop $100 on a Liliana or anything above $20, really. And let's not forget the lands.

>>50688280
>Most modern players like the barrier to entry to try and keep it as a cool kids club.
which is absolutely retarded and the barrier of entry is actively killing the format

>>50688280
If you do not see how that is a detriment and that it will destroy your format you are an idiot.

MTG has become more about economics than playing the fucking game.

No other card game has this problem, hence they're all doing well. Wizards has to pop this autistic bubble in order for the game to not fall off.

>>50676692

standard is the most affordable format but not by much. they're now, looking at keeping decks powerful without rares and walkers. for example cathartic reunion is how R&D is trying to go. make it powerful but keep it off the rare price. btw I'll trash anyone with their "meta netdeck" with homebrew shit and uncommons. the game is more complex than just having the most expensive and rare cards.

the real problem is the community and WOTC is still trying to find the right people to balance cards. they're only starting to get it.

>>50688802
>standard is the most affordable format
nice b8

>>50688399
I've had to learn this the hard way and it sucks. Even selling stuff online you get screwed, between listing fees, shipping costs, insurance and people undercutting you just get fucked.

>>50688802
>btw I'll trash anyone with their "meta netdeck" with homebrew shit and uncommons
Fucking kek. B/G delirium would like to have a word with you.

>the game is more complex than just having the most expensive and rare cards
Then why are the only decks winning the most expensive and rare cards? You can spout "buts" and "what ifs" all day, but when you look at the cold hard results, these decks are dominating.

>they're only starting to get it
They just put one of the best counterspells ever in the rare slot. The only thing they're "getting" is more money.

>>50688802
>standard is the most affordable format
If you're willing to play and lose every round with your janky homebrew shit.

>>50688802
>standard is the most affordable format but not by much
Not even by far.
Pauper is, for short and long stays and for shitbrewers and not (as most of the meta iso ne deck, you just build shit to wrekt that deck)

>>50676692
Standard is the "pro" format, nobody actually likes it because it's fun, we play it because it's the Pro Tour format and the only thing supported by many LGS.

Heartstone has already syphoned most of the "pros" away, because it's cheaper, more fun and pays much better than GPs and the Pro Tour.

So now Standard is trying to survive on the people who like it the least. Casuals would rather play any other format because even in Legacy a shitbrew is more likely to compete with Miracles or Storm, than any rogue deck is to compete with Aetherworks, Delirium or WU Spirits in Standard.

Now the new CEO has spoken about how he doesn't want the current "pros" representing Magic, wants to get rid of the Pro Tour and wants Magic to be an eSport which they hope to achieve with the upcoming "Magic Digital Next". So, why should anyone care about Standard anymore?

There's 8 LGS in my city, during RTR-THS Standard FNMs were 30+ people at each and PPTQs were on the hundreds. Currently most don't even fire Standard FNMs anymore and Showdown has been 8-12 people with half the attendance being dudes that put together their draft remains and hope for losers raffle packs. At the store I go to, we've entirely dropped any pretense at playing Standard and play Duel Commander instead because with 20 life that format is actually fun.

>>50683975
I sold my vintage deck (Oath) for a boat and a commercial fishing license. A couple tunas and a bunch of crab later, I already have Dredge built and am getting revised power as a christmass gift to myself.

A boat is only a money sink if you're literally retarded. This is not like hunting where selling your excess deer is actually more expensive than just giving it to the dogs.

>>50690152
>A boat is only a money sink if you're a retard weekend leisure cuck

Post boat.

>>50688174
This, Stoddard is the faggot that makes sure when MaRo is not stupid and actually makes a good design, it will be overcosted and common, or undercosted and Mythic.

>>50688802
>standard inexpensive

Let's look at the 3 top decks:
BG Delirium:
4 Flayer=$80
4 Liliana=$160
1 Emrakul=$20
That's already $260

UW Flash:
4 Avacyn=$80
4 Gideon=$120
That's already $200

Naya Marvel:
4 Emrakul=$80
3 Nahiri=$60
2 Chandra=$40
That's already $180

Even Marvel the cheapest (and probably the weakest) of the top 3 decks costs well over $200. BG Delirium, the most expensive (and probably the strongest) of the top 3 decks costs almost $500.

whats the best card game now that magic is dead?

>>50690158
It's a 1950 Super Hawk, perfect little thing for fishing tuna and getting girls shitface drunk offshore, got it for $22k, my deck sold for $32k because my power and Sol Ring were Beta.

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>>50688008
Someone wants to play a format with nonrotating cards in a casual format? What shit!

>>50676754
Since Alara you fucking pleb.

Jund and Mythic Bant were fucking stupid.

>>50687906
STORM
IN STANDARD
ITS CHEAP
MR BONES

>>50676828
Stop making mythic rares..

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>>50690445
>make the mythic slot more rare
>make flashy cosmetic cards to put in that slot of a card that already is in the set OR of a collectable full art that isn't very playable, but looks amazing
>holds $50-$150 value just on the basis of collectability and rarity
>will never lower in value, if not increase in value over time
>your rare and uncommon slot is now all playable cards, each deck is under $100 unless you WANT the fancy stuff (regular Ultra Ball is $1, SR Ultra Ball is $150 and most decks run 2-4)
WIZARDS YOU RAN THE POKEMON TCG

YOU GOT CANNED AND TPCI TOOK OVER FOR A REASON

THEY'VE BEEN THRIVING WITH THEIR BUSINESS MODEL, AND YOU'VE SLOWLY BEEN KILLING YOURSELF

PLEASE DON'T LET MTG FUCKING DIE YOU FUCKS

>>50687892
>now we've got people who see the massive board clogs from a CoCo mirror and have deluded themselves into thinking "this was how magic was always supposed to be played
This too, can't stand Standard boardstates ever since they started printing creatures that shit out tokens on entry and/or have toughnesses way higher than their powers.

>>50688314
>just because your 75 pieces of cardboard are worth 1000$ you won't ever get that out of it. If you get 600$ out of it you are lucky
Something I'm always careful to try and tell newer Modern players about is that the values are set by stores as their selling price, they are not a great guide price for trading and they're especially not a great price for thinking you'll sell out at. People will not buy a full Jund deck for $2000, it's just not happening because people don't want to convert money to cards that way. If you want cash rather than trades you're eating a serious loss.

>>50687822
Jesus! That's a thing now!? The game has gone to shit since I stopped playing. A counterspell and a Stifle in one card is fucking bullshit.

>>50690362
that sounds cool, although you made it sound kind of rapey

>>50690618
THIS
DO THIS EXACTLY
AND THEN TAKE PTCGO AND ADD PLAYER HOSTED LOBBYS FOR THINGS LIKE EDH AND CHAOS DRAFT

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>>50691023
Don't get me wrong, voidslime is a lot worse because of the green, but if it was powerful enough, people would have splashed green.

>>50691330
>"It's an ooze"
>Doesn't have Ooze tribal
Kill me

>>50691339
tribal was a mistake.

>>50691023
It doesn't cost UU, therefore it might as well just cost 6.

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>>50691297

>>50691339
Only a few of the post lorewyn block cards deserve to be tribal, but this is one of them. I hate how fagmogoyf was picked over tribal.

>>50688267
There is none, Maro repeatedly says in his drive to work podcast that they don't solve the environment on purpose because they know that means the player base would do it much faster.

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Fucking lol, I love how all he could say about this shit card is about how the art is nice and the artist's name is hard to spell.

>>50693278
>pay 4 draw 2 with downside
>meanwhile, glimmer of genius, that is standard legal, let's you draw 2 scry 2 with no downside

Disregard it being an FNM promo why does this cards exist? Who thought it was worth making? I'd rather they just pack an extra land on the boosters instead of killing trees for this absolute waste of paper.

Mythic and NWO were a mistake. Everything else is debatable.

>>50688133
>the last time a deck with red as its main color has done shit in standard?
Red decks dominated the pro tour, two of them were even in the finals

>>50683795
To be totally honest, a standard deck is half the price of a sail and a cocoon for paragliding, but will last you only 1 year tops.

>>50683905
Any non gw wargaming army would cost you less than 200$

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>>50676692
Yes

The price in the secondary market driven by WotC making chase rares and pushed mythics as a method of generating revenue with premium foils as a secondary money maker after the """"""""""success"""""""""" of Expeditions in BFZ block.

If you want to play budget in Standard you have to accept that so many cards that would work so well in your colors won't work at all without these specific cards, colored or otherwise. If you want a level of competitive speed you need this chase rare, that chase rare, that pricey uncommon, and a couple of those staple cards for your deck that may or may not be mythics and are simply good because of the color choice and the archetype you're playing. Thanks to these exponentially-good cards existing in the Standard metagame, it leaves very little margin for replacement. Why play Goblinslide, a red uncommon enchantment that slowly produces Goblin tokens, when you can play Hangarback Walker, a colorless rare creature that shits out fliers in an instant?

This leads to low FNM turnout, which is bad for stores as now the only people who are really there are the ones who put down the price of three flip Jaces in KTK-BFZ Standard to play the hot new deck, not the casuals who build fun decks that are made up of the shit they have who hunt down the gratifying feeling of winning a few packs with their brews. The only good "budget" deck in Standard right now is Pummeler, which is $80 just to be optimal. And for most, $80 is a bit much for cards that will never see the light of day again as soon as they rotations hinder it's power level to unplayability.

If WotC wants to fix Standard, they need to:
>Reel back the power level of literally everything
>Print Bolt, not Not-Bolts not literally, but figuratively
>Understand the volatility of colorless cards
>Stop being scared some cards will break the meta and print things with less restriction in design.

>>50694283
Yeah, buy-in for most games from scratch is around £250 and that includes paint, glue, tools, minis, rules and a transport. I was going for GW as a baseline since it's more expensive but also more popular, it's kind of an average to pessimistic rather than a cheapest possible estimate.

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>>50676828
Don't forget to cut the PC and Gender/race politics, it's no where near as damaging now as what this anon listed, but I feel its important to mention.

>>50695980
Yeah, fire TrickJarrett and stop printing cards like Alesha

>>50690386
But... Jund was a dirt cheap deck made with commons, uncommons and some few rares if you didn't play Verdant Catacombs.
Those kind of decks don't exist any more, and the only common played other than basic lands is Negate.

>>50676828
>2. Print less planeswalkers
Having 4 planeswalker decks per block is a little ridiculous. It should be 2 per block. Same goes for the number of planeswalkers printed in the block itself

>>50696019
Don't forget #freemyniggajeremy

>>50696047
And stop printing walkers that are really just OP creatures in disguise (Gideon), walkers that are grossly undercooked (Liliana), walkers that were clearly rushed and horribly designed (Nahiri), and walkers that do way too much (Chandra)

>>50696087
That's nothing new. Just replace new Gideon with Jura, new Liliana with Veil, Nahiri with Tezzeret, and Chandra with JtMS. Yeah, it's been like this for years.

I'm still holding out hope that the new management will clean up the fucking mess that Corrupt Greg left. They've definitely been making things better. Yes, decks are still very expensive, but $200+ is still a major drop from $500+ earlier this year. And Incendiary Flow is already much better than any of the garbage FNM promos from 2016.

>>50696324
Wait, Greg Leeds got fired???? What did he do???

>>50696403
Got busted giving SCG inside information about Eternal Masters.

>>50676692
No standard is not a dying format. You are probably experiencing what MANY Mtg players suffer from when the usual play group at your local game store starts drifting from standard and starts looking into another format- or sometimes a differ game.

This is very common. But because there is always a new influx of players WotC will not run out of standard players.

>>50696422
Source on that? Everyone's suspecting it, but it would be great to have one solid confirmed case of insider trading.

>>50695980
>problem has nothing to do with your pet complaint
>"how do I make this discussion about my pet complaint"

The SJW shows its true colors.

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>>50676692

Standard:

>boring creature and planeswalker heavy meta
>super expensive for a supposedly entry level format
>have to buy hundreds of dollars worth of new cards every month
>decks are massive memes based around whatever broken creature or planeswalker is hot at the time
>after your deck rotates out, almost everything in it becomes useless

Meanwhile:

>buy a legacy or modern deck
>pay a grand ONCE and you're good to go
>once you have duals/shocks + fetches + a couple staples for a color pair, you can build anything in those colors for cheap
>if your card gets banned, swap in replacement combo pieces/draw engines/etc. but keep the rest of your deck
>lasts decades

>EDH
>play whatever the hell you want
>play on whatever budget level you want, it doesn't matter
>lasts a lifetime

Standard is a lame money machine for WotC. I'm glad people are waking up.

>>50696690
You forgot

>Legacy
>Nobody fucking plays it anymore
>No price support
>No organized play
>Dead format

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>>50696678
Fuck you tumblrite, real world gender and racial politics do not belong in a fucking fantasy cards game. Those idiots at WotC are putting resources into shit like hiring a black adviser for a fucking one off conspiracy story than investing in fixing mtgo or the standard price issue. While true this stuff is small it can easily snow ball like it did with video games. To a point where combined with the standard issue will kill the game.

>>50696324
Everything done this year was still under Leeds, Microsoft guy's shit starts showing up at Amonkhet. And from what we know he wants to put all competitive play on a new digital client and only keep the paper product for show.

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>>50697092
What gets me is how they went to an actual committee for writing real black characters in order to ask people how to write a fantasy black person

What do you get help for in that regard? How to make something "black enough?" Were they afraid they were going to accidentally write a character as "too white?"

>>50687822
>the flavortext is absolute shit
Why

>>50696764
I'm the boat guy who played Vintage.
We were moving more money/product than any non PPTQ/RPTQ Standard event at our LGS.
The price support and organized play is made by stores and player, not by WotC's meaningless planeswalker points and invaluable premium Fortune's Favor FNM(tm) promos..

>>50697199
You literally can't write an african-american that isn't american and has no african heritage.

It's R-E-T-A-R-D-E-D, Kaya has no reason to act "black" because she's not from this piss poor world and even in this shitshow we call society, black guys from Detroit act different than black guys from Haiti, or actual black Africans.

Every day it's more obvious the actual racists are the SJWs. They literally believe your personality and character comes from melanin and that there's a right or wrong way to be "of color".

>>50696690
>pay a grand ONCE and you're good to go
Yeah, if you never want to play anything else except that one deck.
>once you have duals/shocks + fetches + a couple staples for a color pair, you can build anything in those colors for cheap
But you're still stuck in those colors and the amount of FNM-viable modern decks isn't all that much more than what you can find in standard. Modern has too many easily-sideboarded answers to cute plays.
Modern is also in a really bad spot now where people are winning t4, sometimes t3. Even slower decks do everything in their power to remain uninteractive.
If you want to try something completely different, you're fucked without the pricy lands as they accelerate play so much - unless you go for a bloodmoon deck or some shit and then you're just right back to being pigeon-holed into a single deck type.
Shit gets old in a hurry.

And how many times can you play an infect, tron, affinity, jund, or burn deck before it's all just the same shit made slightly different by luck of the draw and roll of the dice?

Standard has a lot of issues, but at least the major deck types change with each new block. Hell, sometimes old favorites make surprise appearances, IE allys, landfall, etc.

>>50697092
>>50697199
The funny part about this is it's still way off mark since you're just getting a random american black view and injecting american slave history into a setting that has absolutely fuck all to do with america.
Like, fuck.

>>50697275
I write short stories and shit for side income, actually had a complaint about a darker skinned race of half-human, half-beast people in space weren't acting 'black' enough.

>>50697212
Great, that's one store. Europe and US as a whole? Not so much.
I am a Legacy player and I'd take it over Modern, Standard or Limited any day of the week, but I'm not delusional, the format has been all but buried by Wizards.

>>50697460
Just adds to my sentiment about african-americans being retarded.
I've never read such bullshit from actual africans.

>>50697484
Wizars are useless for event organizing.
Tell your LGS you're bringing people to play Legacy, put an invitation to the event on Craiglist or Facebook and watch the crowd come.

Of course nobody is gonna show up to Legacy night if nobody cares to announce there's gonna be a Legacy night in their area.

>>50697484
Wizards didn't bury it, the cost barrier to entry did.

They'll never reprint it, either, due to all the neckbeard bitching about muh value, muh investment. Modern is heading down the same road, hence the emergence of frontier.

>>50676731
Pretty much this, I quit Magic and got into HS because it's so much cheaper. I never once had a competitive standard deck in Magic even after spending hundreds over years, but I have amlost every competitive standard Hearthstone deck for about $200 and 6 months

>>50683952
They're really cutting down on it (Kaladesh coming out instantly ended the chance for the Shadows block). It's implied with that and treasure chests that they are trying to end that to lower card value.

>>50688184
That's just the SaffronOlive effect. He posts videos with budget/janky brews, usually the key cards goes upwards.

>>50691500
Tribal wasn't actually a card type and shouldn't of counted as one, like Legendary. All it was for is Rule reasons to have cards have creature types, and it's a pain for the rules manager and stuff (see Dryad Arbor, which neded quite a few rulings and why Animate Dead isn't used anymore.)

I think we're all failing to address the real elephant in the room here:

Everything on Kaladesh only has one fucking face
No Rakshasas to be seen
Could've had a sick Krishna paralleling Vedalken character.

Nope
Stock High Fantasy BS penetrating steampunk indian aesthetic

Fucking bury me

>>50676692
Why is MtG so frustrating? I downloaded the Magic duels game and I keep gettin my ass kicked, and no its no because I suck, its for one simple reason the fucking mana management in this card game is annoying. Most game I have set a bunch of lands to get anything started meanwhile the A.I somehow manages to summon 3 ATTACK creatures while Im stuck with a dead hand most of the time because most of the beginning decks suck ass due to mana trolling when it comes to them.

Someone help me plz.

>>50698408
It's because you suck

>>50698408
Also don't play duels

>>50698292
That's part of it, I agree, but it went from a $1 bulk mythic rare to $12-15 overnight - the sort of thing that makes me imagine certain interests were just waiting for someone popular to make a deck with it and reap the benefits.
Unfortunately for those involved, Summonings relies on too many cute tricks and a card that does nothing the turn it comes into play for five mana means it's just not going to be any better than a FNM winner.

>>50698408
You're keeping hands you shouldn't be and probably just aren't playing well.

But yeah, Duels is pretty shit. I tried it and found it to be too slow to move through the phases yet you get about two seconds to respond to shit before it skips over to the next phase.

>>50693543
>Disregard it being an FNM promo why does this cards exist? Who thought it was worth making?
Limited play, just like all the other strictly worse then cards.

>>50693984
NWO is a crime. Mythic isn't inherently bad, it's just being abused. Kind of like the difference between using a baseball bat to play baseball and using a baseball bat to murder people.

>>50694283
>Any non gw wargaming army would cost you less than 200$
Some of the other companies are getting up there in price as well.

>>50695584
>Reel back the power level of literally everything
>Print Bolt, not Not-Bolts
You want WotC to reel back power, by printing a more powerful card?

>>50696422
Sauce? I always know SCG were bastards, but I never thought they had a bastard working for them inside WotC.

>>50698406
At least we got dwarfs.

>>50699694
>You want WotC to reel back power, by printing a more powerful card?
I said "figuratively" for a reason

I want WotC to not print cards with the intent for them to be popular and widely used and then going on the account of saying "well we didn't know it'd be THIS good, and not restrict cards so hard that they either are too slow to be played or fit into such a tight niche that it couldn't stretch out the tightest boypussy.

>>50696560
You don't need proof of that particular situation.

My store told me that there wasn't going to be a second run of Eternal Masters. Then Wizards announced that they fired up the printing presses again a few weeks ago.

It was all bullshit. Nobody would fucking rejigger up the presses to make another small print run of an already limited product. They had the second run printed and ready to go from day-1 and just gave us all a bullshit line to the stores after the first run that it was done.

I can't believe they had the balls to do what they did. Admittedly, it's a minor thing, but it is also another thing that the fucking useless community forgot and failed to crucify the company for.

Wizards is just going to continue doing what they're doing. The community is just straight up too busy sucking its own dick to care.

If I had the money to spare, I would buy hundreds of Vintage, Legacy and Modern 56-card Chinaman sets and just start giving them away. I'd do the North American GP and SCG circuit and poison the supply just to see what would happen. Sure, some people will burn the cards, probably make YouTube videos out of it, but some players won't.

>>50701414
>You don't need proof of that particular situation.
>My store told me that there wasn't going to be a second run of Eternal Masters. Then Wizards announced that they fired up the printing presses again a few weeks ago.
The EMA "Re-print" is unadulterated bullshit, but what the other anons are suggesting is more malicious;

>WotC Insider: Psst! Were going to reprint *Money Card #5* in a new set. Make sure to sell all of your copies before then.

>SCG: Thanks senpai.

>Innocent Consumer: Hey look! SCG has *Money Card #5* for 10$ off! What a great deal!

>I can't believe they had the balls to do what they did. Admittedly, it's a minor thing, but it is also another thing that the fucking useless community forgot and failed to crucify the company for.
Your posting in a community that still hasn't crucified GW, what'd you expect?

>If I had the money to spare, I would buy hundreds of Vintage, Legacy and Modern 56-card Chinaman sets and just start giving them away. I'd do the North American GP and SCG circuit and poison the supply just to see what would happen. Sure, some people will burn the cards, probably make YouTube videos out of it, but some players won't.
If by some chance you do get the money and motivation to do such a thing, there are less illegal ways to expose the broken MtG economy.

>>50702272
They did get insider notice that Modern was becoming a tournament format with enough time to buy all the Zendikar fetchlands they could at $10 each and then bumped the price of Scalding Tarn into the $100 range while having hundreds in stock.
If this was any other product, they'd be in jail.

Also, buying or owning piracy is not illegal, selling it is. Magic cards are not paper money no matter how much some people want them to be.

>>50703169
>Also, buying or owning piracy is not illegal, selling it is. Magic cards are not paper money no matter how much some people want them to be.
Of course it isn't WotC can't take you to court for owning fakes, but they can and will sue your pants off for theft of intellectual property, violation of copyright, patent infringement, trademark counterfeiting, and everything else under the sun that will stick IF you do anything vaugely resembling distributing them. Hasbro has more lawyers then you do, so it will stick.

>>50695980
>>50696019

Its not SJWing to print one card with a trans character.

Consider that there are thousands of characters in MtG who are not trans. Now consider that the statistics say around 1 in 200-500 people are trans.

Printing 1 card with a Trans person isn't being a SJW its being realistic. So grow the fuck up.

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>>50695980
>Don't forget to cut the PC and Gender/race politics
>MFW MTG "YouTubers" sling shit at each other over that
>Derium shut down his MTG channel
>HQ is getting shit on
>MTA is playing the victim card

I hate hamfisting politics into things that are supposed to be fun but it's hilarious when they fight over issues they made themselves

I'm just gonna play frontier instead, fuck you desolator

>>50704012
Do you think Desolator lurks /tg/?

>>50676692
Because everything went downhill after Lorwyn and shows no sign of picking back up.

>>50704043
probably desu

>>50688133
the scg-hate anon is just passing on rumors, which is why he isn't able to provide any links or hard evidence.

it's a fucking business, it isn't stocks, scg is fine, don't buy cards from there if you don't want to.

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mtg is dumb. I was a multiple-GP per year, 25-20 ptq per year player and I got tired of the bullshit. I play hearthstone for like 30min a day and it scratches the itch. paper product is a thing of the past. I wish mtg was more savvy about the market, cause, as a game, it is far superior, but it's mired in old-school tcg biz tactics, can't come up with a solid digital product, and routinely pisses off huge swaths of the player base with just utter nonsense.

>>50704043
>desolator
Do people actually listen to that retard?

Is he being ironic? I actually can't tell

>>50704193
He has some good points sometimes.

>>50704012
what did he say about a format that was just made 3 months ago?

>>50697460
Exactly. Modern is only cheap if you play bad decks. You're not winning anything with your janky 5-color Allies or Soul Sisters brew when you'll just get destroyed turn 3 or 4 by Burn, Affinity, and Infect, overpowered by Jund, Abzan, and Grixis, or shut down by Lantern, Prison, and Jeskai.

>>50704464
Also combo-killed by Dredge, Valakut, and Ad Nauseum.

>>50688072
Budget EDH is absolutely not competitive within its format. Good EDH decks cost similar amounts to good legacy decks.

>>50704966
>Good EDH decks cost similar amounts to good legacy decks
If you're trying to play singleton legacy, sure - which is against the entire fucking point of the format.

>>50705035
I'm not, actually I stopped trying to play EDH because everyone around here wont quit dumping hundreds of dollars into their decks and making it solitaire race, but they said "competitive". There are certain connotations to that word.

>>50704464
Tron is the deck that's actually keeping cheap decks at bay.
Mono Black Devotion, 8Rack, LoamPox, Unburial Gifts, RW Tokens, UR Delver, GW Hatebears and Mardu Midrange would all be contenders if turn 3-4 Oblivion Stone, Karn and Ugin didn't exist.

>>50705035
Duel Commander is singleton Legacy (With Balance and Demonic Tutor because yes), and really damn fun.
Normal EDH with tryhard faggots is like trying to play Magic against three fags playing Dominion.

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>>50690618
saved for posterity

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>>50693278
that's actually horrible card art, Famango

>>50682153
This is what gets me. Fuck their "carefully crafted environment."

>>50706284
>/b/ homosexuality is de

im new to magic. should i even bother with fnm standard play? should i just go modern?

>>50703169
>bumped the price of Scalding Tarn into the $100 range while having hundreds in stock.

>I dont understand supply and demand.jpg

>>50705035
>which is against the entire fucking point of the format
Formats don't have a "point", they have win conditions and banlists. What you choose to do with it is up to you, but you're no better than someone who spends thousands.

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>>50676692
In my opinion this format is healthier than Bant CoCo format. CoCo was fucking retarded and took up some 40 percent of the meta by itself.
That said, Aetherworks feels like playing wheel of misfortune where you might get mindslavered facing down a 13/13 pro-instants flyer on turn 4 but you might also get a 3/5 clogging the boards with 1/2 reachers but you might also get nothing. Delirium feels like shit to play against and the 101 flavors of R/X aggro is just pray that you're able to not get beat out and have a chance to actually play the game.
Nothing really feels fun. Zombies in my opinion feel the freshest to play either for or against and that seems to be the opinion at my new LGS because a lot of people tell me that they played that deck and that it is one of their favorites but sold it for more simple decks with higher winrates.

But in my personal opinion rare land cycles are cancer. They exist only to inflate the price of standard and nothing else. Shit like the SOI lands will never see play outside of standard. They'll become worthless once their time in rotation is up. Same for battlelands, same for really anything. At least KLD had the decency to have their lands be fastlands which are modern playable.

>>50707138
>In my opinion this format is healthier than Bant CoCo format
While true, it's not saying much. For the last few years standard has been cripplingly warped by Company and Abzan before it. You either played the deck (which was fucking expensive as shit), or you lost to the deck.

>>50689978
>Pauper is,
MTGO only format and in the end paper is the one that really matters.

>>50693278
>FNM promos like these
Reminder that during Magic's recent 2 year period of huge growth (Innistrad, Return to Ravnica), FNM promos were really fucking good cards.

>>50699785
How do you figuratively reprint a card with the power level of Bolt?

>>50707311
IIRC R&D is in a fucking silly mindset where they believe that making intentionally bad promos is the thing to do because it won't bring in all the Spikefags who crush Timmy at his first FNM for a promo.
I also recall hearing something like they won't make good promos for things like the giftbox because they're afraid it'll all get bought out by people who treat MTG like the stock market so we end up with the absolute trash chief of the foundry promo.

>>50707356
So they're lowering supply because other people might intentionally cause lower supply further down the chain?

>>50684507
Isn't thaf what masterpieces are though.

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>>50707382
Again, this is just based off what I've heard from somewhere, but this IS Wizards we're talking about.

>>50687822
>commons shit and rares amazing
Limited.
But you can have good common like treasure cruise and trash mythic like archangel's light.

>>50687822
>What was their shitty excuse for making commons shit and rares amazing?
I think it's in part because people expect rare/mythic to be powerful, like I don't know how many time I have read during spoiler season "waste of a rare slot" because a card wasn't a 4x auto-include in all deck.

>>50686619
Joey DiCarlo go home.>>50686619
>>50686619

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>>50707328
You make something playable that's also at lower rarities lower than rare.

Don't sit there thinking to yourself "Hey would this common potentially break literally everything ever? Should we slam on some sort of thing that slows it down and keeps it from being good?" Because with WotC's current design philosophy, it only allows higher rarity cards that are pushed to flourish and it's what leads to the barrier of entry that exists now. Because you have all these good rares that exist and not a lot of good non-rare cards, you have decks that become mostly comprised of these rares with the only non-rares in sight being purely tech cards, such as counterspells and removal that's only put at rarities like common in order to support the Limited environment. Good non-rare cards can lead to good budget decks, which means players who are strapped for cash can be able to feel like they can compete at FNM.

Standard exists as the starting point for a lot of players, and the entry cost is very important in that regard in order to make Magic as a whole appealing to new players. If decks get expensive, that leads to lack of player interest which leads to declines in FNM turnout - WotC's biggest problem right now. If they want the format to strive as a flagship platform (which is how they referred to the format when they axed Modern PTs), they need to promote creativity from the player even at a professional level.

Yet even some pros - including Hall of Famers - feel that the current Standard environment is bad.
>https://twitter.com/samstod/status/808572393346076676
All the pushing and pushing WotC has done has made people sick of seeing the cards all the time, with nothing good in sight to shut it down.

Standard needs good hate cards and good low-rarity card design in general if WotC wants to attract new people. Not the story bullshit, not the premium foils. Focus on player retention is very important and current Standard fails at that.

>>50707404
Masterpieces are the secret rare slot for Pokemon, rather than ultra rare.

>>50688008
>No... many just go play commander shit.

A HUGE reason why Commander is so popular is because it's one of the cheapest formats there is. You can burn a lot of money into a Commander deck, but it's very much optional - and your deck will never rotate out.

>>50706916
That's not supply and demand, that's creating a monopoly

>>50706180
Monoblack devotion isn't cheap. The deck runs 4x Liliana and 4x Bob.

>>50703169
tfw I sold off my blue fetches the day before GP Richmond at 75 each

>>50706180
UR Delver runs 4x Scalding Tarn and 4x Cryptic Command. GW Hatebears runs 4x AEther Vial and 1x Horizon Canopy. 8Rack runs 4x Liliana.

>>50706180
RW Tokens and Mardu Midrange both need 4x Mesa 4x Nahiri 1x Emrakul. Of the decks you listed, only Unburial Gifts and LoamPox are budget.

>>50709908
Good move. Tarns are $60 now, Mistys are $45.

>>50709939
LoamPox isn't budget either, it needs 4x Verdant Catacombs.

>>50709946
Starcity was buying them for 75 each. It wasn't hard to find desperate people leaving to Richmond willing to buy at that price.

>>50706284

I mean, isn't this what masterpeices are? Just while preserving mythic rarity.

>>50691500
this was printed pre-lorwyn you goof. Voidslime was old ravnica.

>>50710002
>I mean, isn't this what masterpeices are? Just while preserving mythic rarity.

The WHOLE POINT is to shitcan mythic rarity because its very existence drives up deck prices to unreasonable level. Mythic slots should never include unique cards, just fancier-looking reprints.

>>50710139

Eh, they're halfway there. Give um time.

>>50676692
In a word. No.

Standard has a lot of really viable decks right now and nothing compares to the oppressiveness of bant coco. If you think FNM numbers are down because of the standard format your kidding yourself, its the holiday season.

>>50710368
>Standard has a lot of really viable decks right now
>Delirium and blue-white and nothing else
>A lot

Only way you think this standard is not terrible is if you have never played in an actually good standard.

>>50701414
>You don't need proof of that particular situation.

No, we need proof because this horseshit post-factual age can't keep going on unchecked.
I believe any accusation that SCG is commiting borderline fraud, market-manipulation and collusion, but that doesn't change that we should still strive to find proof.

>>50710407

temur/colors aetherworks
esper agro
mardu vehicles
golgari delirium
U/W flash

That is 5. In the last rotation we had Bant Coco.

>>50701414
>I can't believe they had the balls to do what they did. Admittedly, it's a minor thing, but it is also another thing that the fucking useless community forgot and failed to crucify the company for.

Why the fuck would the community care? The only people who took a hit in that are the investors who held on to EMA boxes to create artificial scarcity, and people like that deserve to fucking burn.

Magic has ONE problem that I care about: it costs a hundred times more than it should. It's impossibly expensive to play in any serious way. Anything that drives that cost down is good. Anything that drives it further up is Satan. Sneaky "second printings" drive it down, ergo they are good.

>>50710473
>The only people who took a hit in that are the investors who held on to EMA boxes to create artificial scarcity, and people like that deserve to fucking burn.
The secondary market is what supplies your singles and if your LGS isn't a WPN location they take a hit too.

>>50707382
Jews tend to be neurotic.
One thing is true though, Duel Decks are designed bad on purpose so that they'll shelfwarm at big box for the purpose of market visibility and creating a front that makes the game seem much more approachable than it really is. It's cheaper than budgeting actual advertising and prevents the woeful event of having to reprint a product that sold out.

>>50710517
>The secondary market is what supplies your singles

Yeah, and that's great. What's not great is when they actively try to keep product from reaching the players. That's when they become just worthless leeches, and deserve to be punished for trying to do so.

I hope Wizards turns what they did with EMA into a standard practice. Profiteers hoarding 80% of the boxes? Oh, look what we found under the couch: a second print run that we totally forgot about! And, if that doesn't do the job, a third one!

>>50710617
>What's not great is when they actively try to keep product from reaching the players.
Those are the distributors. If your going to get mad at anything get mad at WOTC's marketing scheme.

File: oath of bullshit.jpg (24KB, 265x370px) Image search: [Google]

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Meanwhile.
Oh goyim, be sure to buy all of our planeswalker™!

>>50693543
>Disregard it being an FNM promo why does this cards exist?

It was an attempt at creating a fixed Fact or Fiction.

If it was top five it might have actually been that. As it is, it's arguable if it's even better than Inspiration, and definitely is worse than GoG.

>>50710667
I want to say that's false on the grounds that they wouldn't print two cards in the green white slot, but I know that it's real

>>50710666
>Those are the distributors

No, those are the stores. They get X boxes of low print run set Y and decide to sit on them. Put like four in store and sit on the other 96 to drive up their value. Generate scarcity. Playing the cardboard stocks.

Anybody who does that ate shit big time with the second run of EMA, and deserved to.

Though it is true that there's something seriously fucked up with WotC's whole business model if shit like >>50707356 is even a concern. You should never have to make an intentionally bad product if your business is legit.

>>50710667
>T3 Gideon

Nope that's it, I'm done I'm over this game. I hardly played anymore as is but now I am actively seeking to avoid MTG.

>>50710667

I never used to care about Magic lore much, but I'm getting really angry that Gaywatch is even a thing.

>>50710719
>not playing yahenni's expertise
>not using yahenni's expertise's ability to ruinous path gideon
>not playing mono black eldrazi
>2016

>>50710765
decklist please? I used to play UB eldrazi since OGW but I had to drop it after the last rotation

>>50710795
3x Aether Hub
3x Bearer of Silence (OGW)
1x Blighted Fen (BFZ)
3x Blooming Marsh
3x Eldrazi Mimic (OGW)
2x Flaying Tendrils
4x Grasp of Darkness (OGW)
3x Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet (OGW)
3x Live Fast
1x Lost Legacy
3x Matter Reshaper (OGW)
3x Mirrorpool (OGW)
2x Murder
2x Ob Nixilis Reignited (BFZ)
4x Reality Smasher (OGW)
3x Ruinous Path (BFZ)
1x Ruins of Oran-Rief (OGW)
13x Swamp (BFZ)
3x Thought-Knot Seer (OGW)

Requires some work but I think the bones
(mimic kalitas TKS reality smasher matter reshaper) shouldn't be replaced.

>>50710368

FNM numbers aren't down STANDARD numbers are down. Which includes FNM, but also includes general tournament attendance. It's gotten that way because we've had one too many shitty standard formats in a row. Fetches + tangos then Coco, while also pumping out a cheap new eternal deck in Eldrazi makes people just say 'fuck standard'. Note that numbers were down BEFORE they reverted the rotation changes. It was a REACTION to something that had been trending for months. Numbers are likely to be repressed until next block at the earliest, and next rotation at the latest.

>>50701414

I've been doing my part on the chinaman front. People worry about indistinguishable counterfeits happening at some point in the future. They don't realize that we're mostly already there.

>>50711152
I'd really like to get fakes, but I continue to keep it off because my LGS players know I'm don't have money for that shit, and I'd feel bad showing up with 4x inkmoths 3x lilis and them knowing they're fake.

>>50711119
I wonder what the numbers are like in standard khans vs. now

>>50711195

Don't poison your watering hole. I only take fakes to gps and opens to trade away.

>>50706180
UR Delver is favored, are you high?

>>50711257

Tournament numbers might be the most accessible info but I don't know where to dig those up.

>>50710719
The motherfucker doesn't go away until the Mexicotlantis set comes out, right?

>>50711680

He should be just banned, along with Emrakul, Looter Scooter and Ishkanah.

>>50711119
It really is Standard.
My LGS still gets 16 people to play Duel Commander, 12 to draft and 8 for Modern on fridays despite being holyday season.
Standard? Zero people, even the Showdown didn't fire because it was literally one asshole spike who then wanted all 10 boosters by default but the TO told him to fuck off and he'd keep accumulating the boosters till it fires.

>>50711300
Depends on the build, Tempo Delver does well, Midrange Delver does terrible.

>>50710667
Oath of Tibalt better be a thing in Icantbelieveotsnotegypt

>>50712236
Implying they're gonna waste paper on giving people something they actually want instead of more Jace, Nissa and Gideon.

>>50711724
This would save the format.

I'm not even kidding, standard is perfect without Emrakul, Gideon, and the Scooter.

>>50712236
Tibalt is Chaotic Evil he ain't joining gatewatch.. Best you can hope for is Bolas forms some sort of anti-gatewatch. The gate crashers or something.

>>50710667
Why are you ruining Ajani like this?

>>50712732
G A T E C R A S H

>>50711724
>>50712647
avacyn?

Remember when we all thought Ishkanah was bad and Delirium would just be a jank deck?

>>50712966
Avacyn is fine. Blue White Flash is an alright deck to go up against, unless it has access to Gideon.

>>50683619
Magic is pretty cheap compared to any real hobby that requires monetary investment.

>>50683951
It gets you cardboard and the ability to play a game you enjoy with others face to face.

>>50712966
Avacyn is pushed as hell and might be a culprit of one card doing too much, but she is not as consistently oppressive as Gideon, Emrakul, or Copter. Hell, I'd say she's less obnoxious than Ishkanah. Also, if you'll notice that every deck playing her is also playing a >= number of Gideons, it seems to me that she only becomes frustrating by association.

>>50713308
Not that guy, but I'm a new player. What's 'pushed?'

The only thing standard is doing for me right now is giving me a loathing for white. Fuck white it seems like they have it all right now. They have early game attackers, early game blockers, flyers, backup against boardwipes, backup in combat, token generators, sorcery and instant speed exile removal, walking negation spells, walking bounce spells, late game threats, they do it all.

>>50713394
When Wizards purposefully make a card super powerful because it represents the set and encourages people to buy more packs. These are always mythic rare lore characters and are usually planeswalkers.

>>50713394
Pushed is having too many stats and abilities for the cost, compared to the creatures it may face.
Avacyn is a Flash, Flying, Vigilance 4/4 that makes all your creatures including herself indestructible for 5 mana. At the same cost, you have things like Serra Angel that is a 4/4 with only Flying and Vigilance.
Another obvious example is Grim Flayer, which is a 2/2 for 2 mana with trample that goes big by himself really fast and helps out the deck's gameplan. Meanwhile, most other similar creatures have no keywords and tap abilities instead of triggered/passive ones.

>>50713648
>>50713672
So it means 'broken' without meaning 'broken'?

>>50713685
No, not the same. The MtG meaning of broken is not the modern videogame term of "this weapon is the best and renders 4 others obsolete", but "this is literally impossible to beat consistently and makes the game degenerate".
Pushed cards are everpresent and oppressive, but they're not broken.

>>50713747
So it's worse?

>>50713774
Yes and no. It's worse in the sense that it isn't broken enough to get banned so will continue to push the limits of what's fair and fuck you over for two years.

It's better than a broken card which would fuck you twice as hard before it gets added to the banlist.

All standard is nowadays is creatures, creatures, and planeswalkers that help your fucking creatures. Theres no sense of orginiallity in the decks, and the top decks cost way to much considering they'll be worth 0 once those cards rotate out. Went and bought a legacy deck when I saw the Theros spoilers and haven't looked back since.

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Anyone have some sort of report on standard actually statistically dying? Not buying it till I see some evidence beyond "I don't like this creatures the tappening (now with planeswalkers!) format ergo no one plays it"

>>50713830
I'd say their decision to discontinue modern support at pro tours is a sign. If anything screams "Shit Standard's dying, let's make it more relevant" it's that.

>>50713830
http://www.channelfireball.com/articles/whats-the-matter-with-standard/

>>50713863
Wizards also announced they wont be doing live coverage for the next legacy GP.

>>50713249
A ball is like $20, great sneakers can be had from $60 upwards.
Hell I got my full football gear including winter thermal pants, leg/arm warmers and two pairs of every brace for $380 and that shit doesn't last you 6 months.

Standard is retarded, Modern is worse. Legacy is only worth it if you live in a big city where you can gather 30+ players with a facebook event, and Vintage is an urban legend. Commander is the only format left where you can build a deck in peace and play it at leisure without worrying about Gideon/Scooter/Emrakul going even higher every weekend, your main piece getting banned, or the RL card you were missing and absolutely needed to compete getting bought out by faggots who think they're investors.

>>50714105
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4aGDCE6Nrz0

>>50714152
It's kinda cheating to bring in cube in a discussion of constructed formats

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>>50691464

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>>50708576

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>ITT: WAHHHHHHHH STANDARD SO EXPENSIVE WAHHHHHHH MYTHIC RARES SO EXPENSIVE WAHHHHHHHHH SCG MAKES EVERYTHING EXPENSIVE

Let me get something FUCKING clear to you, white american kids.

-I live in the third world
-Im unemployed
-Im just an university student
-I have to pay for the rent, water, electricity, internet and food
-I have a girlfriend which obviously implies more expenses since >women
-And also I have to pay for my own education

And I do ALL that just by doing EASY AS FUCK shit like buying pre order Smuggler Copters for $2 when they were spoiled and then reselling them for $16.
Or getting cheap pre order grim flayers.
Or cheap Emrakruls.
Or cheap Aetherworks before the pro tour.
Etc etc etc.

If a third world piece of shit scum like me can make enough money for all that, and also

-I HAVE A COMPLETE B/G DELIRIUM DECK

If I can make all that... you have no fucking excuse privileged piece of lazy shits.
The game is not expensive you're just retards for buying into hyped bad cards or not trading or hundreds of other retarded shit you all probably do.

>>50717886
Shut up, Achmed, we both know your daddy is an oil baron.

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>>50717886

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>guise they'll learn to make cards ballanced!!!!!
>commons will return!!!!!!
Fuck Wizards.

>>50718951
That is an uncommon at best. That straight up doesn't deserve to be rare by rules of NWO

>>50719357
it's to help superfriends decks

>>50719508
Well, I have no respect for what is literal mythic tribal, so that is an uncommon at best. That straight up doesn't deserve to be rare by rules of NWO

>>50719526
>NWO
>New rules for the complexity of Commons
Nice try, bub

>>50717886
>HEH, I PAY MY WAY THROUGH LIFE BY SPECULATING ON MTG AREN'T I FUCKING COOL? LET ME TELL YOU ABOUT MY GIRLFRIEND >WOMEN AMIRITE???

Keep going, this is pretty entertaining

>>50684101
>>50684101
You realize that there is more involved in the cost of magic cards than a literal piece of cardboard right? Once you factor in the cost of contracting a printing company, storing and shipping plus the labor for everyone that works at wotc you aren't left with much.
Fun fact: wotc sells packs to distributors and lgs around $2.25 per pack/$78 per box. Online vendors retail boxes online around $90. You are kidding yourself if you really think that wotc is artificially jacking up the price of packs to squeeze money out of the playerbase because the profit margins on sealed product sales are dog shit.

>>50690618
it'd be nice but wizards is so greedy now they'd probably shortprint anything worthwhile just to sell more boxes

>>50686647
>>50686647
Jesus, this sounds profitable as fuck

>>50717886
>And I do ALL that just by doing EASY AS FUCK shit like buying pre order Smuggler Copters for $2 when they were spoiled and then reselling them for $16.
I wouldn't be hunting if I had to reload my own ammunition because store-bought ammunition is too expensive. I wouldn't cook if I had to raise my own goddamn meat. I don't want my hobby to have a fucking job attached to it.

The analogy doesn't fit perfectly to Magic but here's the point: if I had to put time into playing this stupid metagame called Magic-stocks in order to affordably play this game, then fuck the game.

I want to put down my money and play the game. But even if I put down my money, I can't play the game because it's so fucking expensive now that only idiots or nobody is playing it, myself being one of the people refusing to pay so much for shit that shouldn't be so expensive.

So, good on you for finding economical avenues to play the game. But I value my time. And I don't feel that playing Magic-stocks is a good use of my time when I could be doing actual stocks (and I do) for a significantly better return.

>>50720445
I agree it sounds profitable. I wouldn't want to do it.

You ultimately have to have people at events buying cards, sorting shit, opening packs - doing grunt-work. Quite frankly, I wouldn't want to hire people to do that. Because people are untrustworthy and you're essentially paying them to sort gold from lead.

You're essentially running a pawn business on a much larger scale. With people constantly trying to fuck you and your employees and you needing to protect yourself from being fucked by your own employees in this high-risk situation, it sounds like hell. With a regular pawn-shop situation you can rely on a core group of less than 10 employees. Starcity probably has to manage dozens. It's not like you can have a metal detector for cardboard.

>>50717886
I live in Meixco City, we have a ridiculous ammount of players to the point that 17+ LGS can subsist entirely on Magic at the same time.
The Modern WMCQ two years ago had 972 people. The Standard WMCQ this year has 340.
Montly Legacy nights gather 40+ people, casual Legacy saturday events gather 12-16. Modern is always on the 20s-30s at the stores that support it. EDH weenies are a plague, you can't enter a store without stepping on one of those, Duel Commander has been holding steady 20's at the store that supports it most and 8-16 on the newer LGS I go to. People show up to play Frontier and Tiny Leaders, and people actually play paper Pauper here. Multiply that times 10 and that's the ammount of people here wanting to shove all their dispossable income at WotC but not doing so because they sell shit product and instead giving it to the secondary market.

On the other hand, Standard FNM is not firing anywhere. One LGS even went as far as put $50 cash to the price pool all month plus promos and shit for $3 entry, he hasn't gone past 10 and the first week nobody showed up. Another store has 40 Showdown boosters for this weekend because people haven't showed up to the Standard Showdown. Another one only has a Standard scene because it's using Starcity Game Nights as bait and people love little cartoon animal playmats here for whatever reason.

People don't want to play Standard because it's shit AND expensive. They don't have any problem buying dual lands, foil vampiric tutors and judge ravages of war. But fuck Gideon, fuck Emrakuk and fuck Ishkana. At least the LooterScooter is a quirky kind of fun card that can go in a lot of decks, those other shits are cards you absolutely cannot win without in Standard, but are absolutely worthless in every other format, even Frontier.

>>50719526
NWO means "Buy the mythic walker that's the only good card in the set goyim!" no matter how much MaRo wants to pretend it doesn't.