Warcraft Lore and RPG Discussion

First for I thought new thread editions were decided on the last topic in the previous thread, not random OP urges.

>>>50656725
To be fair, the deal was "Accept my gift and I'll make you guys understand the universe, which is what all of you collectively want apparently" without showing them the small print about having cosmic radioactive magical star uranium pumped up your asshole and inevitably becoming you an illogically malicious asshole, yourself. It's a fine line between "buyer getting tricked" and "buyer not giving a shit about the consequences".

Also, if I may chime in that late in the discussion: I believe the big offense people took in the Draenei retcon was that it showed indifference of Blizzard or Metzen in particular. Remember, he "forgot" the Eredar lore when he wrote or at least approved of the Draenei, plus the whole thing reeked of the same inconsistency that a twelve-year old has when they try to write something for the first time where they establish something, then later have a "much cooler idea, I swear u guis!" and just slam it in there with no regards to how much suspension of disbelief they could expect from their audience.

In hindsight, it was the first of several instances of Blizzard or Activision making it obvious how little they cared for something in which people get really emotionally invested, which is why I can accept Draenei pretty fine seeing how I got my unreasonably strong attachment to Warcraft abused so many times I've essentially become dead inside. The porn helps, as well.

>>50659333
>First for I thought new thread editions were decided on the last topic in the previous thread, not random OP urges.
>thatswhereyourewrongkiddo.jpg

I make 90% of these threads, and the OP is usually just a random picture I already have saved, and some sort of saying or meme associated with them

the Nozdormu edition is because I wasn't sure if I'd get home in time to make the thread before the last one 404'd. But I forgot how long threads take to die after they hit page 7 or 8

>>50659333
>In hindsight, it was the first of several instances of Blizzard or Activision making it obvious how little they cared for something in which people get really emotionally invested,
if I cared that much about the draenei, I'd be more annoyed about Akama sperging out over draenei being shit fighters and inexplicably blaming Illidan for it

>>50659333
>plus the whole thing reeked of the same inconsistency that a twelve-year old has when they try to write something for the first time where they establish something, then later have a "much cooler idea, I swear u guis!" and just slam it in there with no regards to how much suspension of disbelief they could expect from their audience.
That pretty much describes most of Metzen's writing. And, to be honest, I can't hate him for that. The guy is pretty much like a little kid telling of all the cool stories he came up after reading comic books. Whether he's a good writer or not, he was genuinely exited about his work and loved the stuff he had made.

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>Garrosh, we need to make sure your parents meet at the Enchantment Under The Sea Dance, or you'll never be born!

>>50659754
>Blackfuse invented the Iron Star so Garrosh could create 1.21 gigawatts

>>50660653
> Iron Stars leave two trails of fire when they set off

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>>50660684
literally the deepest lore. How can other leaders even compete?

>See recap of rogue class hall campaign lore
>Detheroc has somehow convinced Anduin to launch a direct attack on the Horde, only being stopped at the last moment
>Anduin Wrynn
>Initiating a war
How?

>>50661159
Dreadlords, son.

>>50661159
Didn't you watch the cinematic?
>You must be willing to FITE

Andindun is growing up because fightan is manly and manly means mature.

>Tfw no ancient as the earth Cairne to teach all these wet-behind-the-ear shits how to unify a people and consolidate power in the face of adversity
>Tfw poor Baine still doesn't get time to shine and probably won't bang Mayla Highmountain

>>50661159
>1. Dreadlords can do mind control, and have done so to Paladins and Priests or those who would be before.

>2. Nobody likes Sylvanas and Greymane's already whispering in his ear about dealing with her. Anduin knew exactly what he was doing sendind Genn and Sky Admiral Rogers to Stormheim.

>3. Anduin doesn't know everything. He may believe in peace, but he's still messed up a little over Varian's death and he can't be everywhere at once. Plus, he's always been more trusting than Varian. Easier to lie to. The mistake the Dreadlord in the comic made was revealing himself.

>4. He's still sore over losing Aunt Jaina to the Dark Side and it's entirely possible Detheroc (who knows Sylvanas) convinced him that the Banshee Queen was mind-controlling both of them the last time they spoke so as to drive them apart. Remember, Detheroc knows that Sylvanas has that power.

>5. Any combination or lack thereof of the above, including any reasons I might not have mentioned.

>6. JOKE ANSWER: He mind-controlled an SI:7 agent back in Mists so he could stay on Pandaria, spent way too much time with Wrathion, and can in fact use Shadowform. Anduin is not what he seems.

>>50661159
The Horde is shit.

>>50661451
>Anduin knew exactly what he was doing sendind Genn and Sky Admiral Rogers to Stormheim.
You mean preventing creation of Scourge 2.0?

>>50662705
Yes, but also giving Genn exactly what he wanted.

If Anduin really just wanted the Aegis, he'd have sent Mekkatorque or something. Someone who would focus on the job and avoid attacking the Warchief of the Horde.

But sending Genn, when he knows that's where Sylvanas is going? Sending the one person the world KNOWS hates Sylvanas more than anyone? He knew fighting would break out, and Sylvanas knows that he knew.

That's a declaration of war right there. Was it the right thing to do, morally? Yes - Sylvanas is objectively Evil and even the guy who put her on the throne never trusted her. She even moved the capital of the Horde to Undercity, rather than actually have her seat in Orgrimmar where she can be seen in the open.

Was it the right thing to do, POLITCALLY? No. Not at all. Not when there's the Legion to deal with.

>>50662845
>Yes, but also giving Genn exactly what he wanted.
Nah he just realised that if there one man who will knew how to act if the Horde starts making some serious shit in Stormjheim it would be Genn, and guess what? It's worked.
>That's a declaration of war right there.
The war was declared in Broken Shore.
>Not when there's the Legion to deal with.
And that's why he sends single ship, while the Horde spending the entire fleet with full ground invasion army just to find immortality for Warchief.

>>50662845
Alliance and Horde being in Stormheim isn't about finding the aegis.
The Horde are there for Sylvanas' schemes and the Alliance are there to stop her.

>Was it the right thing to do, POLITCALLY? No.

I'd have to disagree. Just because the Forsaken aren't as powerful as the Legion doesn't mean they should be allowed to operate unopposed.

>>50661451
>>50662705
>>50662845

You are all giving Anduin too much credit...

He is a young king with too little prestige to be respected..

He "sent" Greymane because Greymane just wanted to go and Anduin was too weak politically to say "no, you dont"...

Greymane is the most experienced and pro-active (almost) human leader, he is also was a king far before Anduin birth...

Anduin dosent even have a good reason to say "no", the Alliance is in grief, the world is ending with a demon invasion. The people want a strong leader like Greymane, just picture how the entire nation would be mad with him if he stopped Greymane, the guy that wants to take arms against the end of the world, that wants to avenge his father (against the horde or against demons? welll people just dont care)

If I remember well there was a clear instruction to not engage the Horde on battle on the Stormhein mission, this was repeated twice I think....

And Greymane is actually taking charge of all Alliance military and will oppose Anduin chain of command if he steps on his vengance plan. Thats all the "Vengance goes with the Gilneas brigade" mean...

A civil war would be very interesting, But instead of a a Garrosh 2.0 I really want that Anduin grows as a leader and make Greymane chill out a bit after all the shit.

The Dreadlord? Dindt played that part, probably he filled Anduin with a bunch of lies and false intel and he was too insecure to say no.

People will actually hate Anduin for that but I am fine... Its a good start for a "king" character, people actually want him to be a badass but a character that starts failing and grows with the story is far better than another Mary Sue...

>>50659648
People sometimes forget that this shit started in the early nineties, in a time when story in games wasn't considered all that important, and the idea of a carefully-constructed continuity stretching across years was actually just something soap operas did.

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>>50661451
>Can use shadowform
>Might be a bit evil
>Problems with jaina
>Blonde and human and young and prince/king
>Uses the light
Tell me... more.

>>50663528
>If I remember well there was a clear instruction to not engage the Horde on battle on the Stormhein mission, this was repeated twice I think....
Anduin tells Greymane and Rogers to not engage the Horde unless "absolutely necessary". as soon as the PC gets briefed on the mission in Stormheim, they're told that Rogers plans to make it necessary

>>50659333
>To be fair, the deal was "Accept my gift and I'll make you guys understand the universe, which is what all of you collectively want apparently" without showing them the small print about having cosmic radioactive magical star uranium pumped up your asshole and inevitably becoming you an illogically malicious asshole, yourself. It's a fine line between "buyer getting tricked" and "buyer not giving a shit about the consequences".
From the lore about Thal'kiel, I am willing to believe that Archimonde knew from the start what they were getting into. And he should, as Thal'kiel's former right hand, and he kept the Skull of the First Man'ari.

>>50664356
Ner'zhul please go.

>>50664709
Imma gonna get a new body for when you kill bolvar you anarchist fucks.

It's him or Thrall

>>50658890

I remember when this drigga payed me to kill him.
Payment to be made, after I killed him.
Payable by him, after he was dead.
... honestly I should have been suspicious.
But what do you know, he came through.
It was a little unsettling actually.

>>50664730

Oh no you don't, I already kicked your ghostly remnant's ass all the way to the shadow lands, and got two swords out of it.

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>>50664356
Step aside, you had your own chance. Now it's MY turn to finish the world up after Gul'dan has died.

Reminder ODEEEEEN did nothing wrong.

>finally get around to do siege of orgrimmar
>pandaren who joined the horde getting beaten to death for info
>serveshimright.jpg

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>>50665847
>gave up the Ages of Agrabah to a bunch of foreign midgets instead of it's rightful owner GOD KING Snowball

>right

>>50668260
>refusing to give the AYYJISS to the Burning Legion
>wrong

>>50668401
Skobald proved his worff, Odeen
the ages belongs to him

>>50669191
Gåååååd Keeeeeng Skååååååvaaaaald is a pushover who had to cheat to get there. He followed Odyn-chan's beloved senpais after they had cleared everything else for him.

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>watch Varian's trailer for HOTS
>Jaina is the narrator
>He was the greatest king of all
>The greatest father
>He died for our sins
>He kissed babies
>He cured everyone's disease with his stare
>He was an example for us all even millennia old warriors

The whole Alliance sucking up to him is even more cringy than the Thrall wankery in Cata. I'm glad Gul'dan roasted him and even that moment had to be ruined with Genn doing a dramatic 'NO' before ending.

>>50669630
>that mirroring of the Warcraft 1 and 2 covers
I can't believe I never noticed that before. Is Legion cinematickino?

I appreciate that Odyn was true to his mythological counterpart's Master of Disguise bullshit.

It gave me the same warm feeling I get whenever Matches Malone shows up in Batman comics.

>>50669630
The Varian wank has been happening ever since that fucker came back.

I wish Stormwind had never come back, whole place just pumps out wankers and twats. Fucking Varian and Fucking Bolver too.

>>50669981
I am not sure why people just care about Bolvar at all...

Blizzard print him as a uncorrupted and based guy that endure the torture of the Lich King, Jaina says that he was a hero, loved by his people.. and what the fuck he did anyway to deserve all this prise?

What he did before Legion despite.. well... die?

Varian wank was also silly, the guy was a jerk exactly like Garrosh, started a war, become a better person on offscreen and no one ever touches the fact he was a dick.

>>50670405
Bolvar was also regent of Stormwind while Varian was AWOL.

>>50670435
I know... fine job he did..

But I was asking if he actually did something that justify all this wank...

I know that on vanilla we had few racials npcs to care about, but for god sake... Darkshire mayor and his hot daughter are more interesting than him.

>>50670405
>>50670435

There's a quote from Metzen saying he wanted people to want to follow Varian into hell, I just wanted to shank the bloke most of the time.

So Bolver stood there, in the throne room. I don't understand why that can be considered appealing by anyone. Before going off to get rekt by a zombie who was cucking his leader for a demon. And killing a Lich, who was simply the first of a long line of members of the church deciding that they were better off in cults than sticking with the Church of Light.

I didn't like Trion much either, his story in the Plague Lands was good, but beyond that it was just irritating having him in my face all through Wrath when there were a bunch of other characters who had a better connection to Arthas and better justifications for being his "arch-nemisis".

Still nostalgia's a bitch I guess, and influences the above significantly.

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>>50670578
>on vanilla we had few racials npcs to care about
I can't be the only one who preferred it this way, right? Back when the focus was on exploration, not cape comic power wank?

>>50670598
Honestly, Tirion as he was in vanilla and the original short story (written by Metzen himself, incidentally) was a completely different character to what we got in Wrath. He used to be humble (which is a paladin virtue I think a lot of people "conveniently" forget in order to RP as Warhammer characters), a paladin who stuck to what is right even when it cost him everything and made him an outlaw.... and then suddenly he turned into High Superlord Awesomedude Holycock, supreme leader of the Argent Dawn and so important the Lich King set up the entire DK starting area just to get to him and the xmas decorations he used for armour.

Oh, and the Ashbringer stopped being interesting once it got redeemed, too. All that tragedy and pathos, the creepy whispering and the implications... and now it's just a shiny stick for poking at baddies.

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>>50668260
skovald/gondola memes always make my dickle chickle

Evolved elves > evolved trolls > trolls > elementals > explosive midget trolls > old gods > alien invaders > minions of alien invaders> fleshy, weaker, less competent minions of weaker, less competent alien invaders

>>50672866
>evolved Elves
Who?

>all this about alien invaders
So which one is Legion and which one is Titans?

>>50672866

>evolved elves

You joking mon?
Elves be degenerate freaks, dey don't even got tusks.

>>50672866
>"evolved" elves that high
>forgetting the Wild master races
>putting the mogu that low or not at all
Something's not quite right...

>>50673551

If I'm reading it right they are present there at the bottom along with Humans, Dwarves, Vrykul, Gnomes, and Tol'vir.

>>50673551
An illusion! What are they hiding?

>>50673622
Fucking elf lovers. Mogu master race belongs at the top

So, has Jaina been made into a raid boss yet?

>>50675716
I would like to know this, too, as well as if Vol'jin is magically back or not. Haven't played since 7.1.5

>>50675749
>haven't played since a patch that comes out next month
huh

if Jaina ends up as a raid boss, it'll probably in a small outside tier raid like ToV

>>50658890
Greymon?

>>50675925
Oh, huh. I guess since it was announced, then. I thought it had already gone up several weeks ago.

>>50675987
no, it goes up some time in January or February, ie. Directly in the middle of most people's Nighthold progression, because "you guys thought WoD didn't have enough patches? Enjoy major balance patches right after raids open"

You know I was wondering hanging plot hooks about Queen Azshara. Does she still want Sargeras to be her consort?

Will she be the last boss for her raid? Probably, with N'zoth as a bonus boss like Blizz did with Lei Shen and Ra-den

What about Prince Farondis and his subjects? What will the NEs do with them. I didn't see Tyrande even trying to break their curse.

>>50676392
>Does she still want Sargeras to be her consort?
she gave up on Sargeras after Zin-Azshari blew up. She's /n'zoth'sgirl/ now

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>>50677073
Azshara probably still pines for that Titan dick, but I think she acknowledges that ship has sailed. Or maybe she'll give it another shot, now that the Legion is invading Azeroth en masse.

So who is the best bet for the final boss? Archimonde out of nowhere in WoD was really random.

>>50677711
For Legion? Probably Kil'jaeden 2: This Time I'm Not Just Half a Body Edition.

>>50677742
Kil'jaeden is the boss of Tomb of Sargeras.

Only real possibility is Sargeras himself

>>50676044
It's coming out between now and Ahn'qiraj remembrance day

>>50677711
Didn't they say it would be someone "unexpected"? I really can't think of anyone else it could be other than something to do with Sargeras or maybe we'll get a mindfuck ending and fight N'zoth.

>>50677742
Killy Jay is the last boss of 7.2. After that we jump through his portal to Argus

>>50677888
We killed Gul'Dan for the second time, already. We wouldn't expect him to show up a third time!

He's already so felled-up that he's likely been elevated to semi-demonhood, already, so he's probably been speed-rezzed in the Nether or something.

Another option is something we've been suspecting for a while now, but the majority of players probably never thought about because reasons - Xe'ra, proving that THE LIGHT is just as much an asshole magical power like all the others.

In a twist of events, it is revealed that the Void Lords have actually been sealed away to the unreality by the supreme Naaru Light Exarch Vindicator Lord, who sought to control all of the multiverses and bring ultimate stability and order at the dawn of creation. The Void Lords opposed him and wished to maintain balance between chaos and order, but were ultimately defeated. With the last of their power in realspace, they collectively attacked the Naaru Light Exarch Vindicator Lord and shattered his crystalline form into many separate entities who were dispersed among the stars. the Voidlords attempt to invade realspace, again, in order to prevent the Naaru from re-forming into SNLEVL, which was misunderstood by Sargeras as an attempt to corrupt nascent titants in order to consume reality. Xe'Ra is the Headmaster of all Naaru and attempts to secure the nascent Titan within Azeroth in order to make sure that it won't ever be controlled by the Voidlords, and the players must face the Naaru and the Army of Light in order to save the universe from TOTAL MULTIVERSAL DICTATORSHIP!

>>50678342
I'd say the final bosses in decreasing order of likelyhood
>Sargeras
>double corrupted Illidan
>Azshara
>N'zoth or some sort of Old God shenanigans
>Xe'ra turns out to be a bad guy
>Jaina

>>50678497
They don't have the balls to make Illidan the final boss again. Especially not with how he's portrayed now that the Illidari are a thing.

>>50678342
>the final boss is the Naaru Light Exarch Vindicator Lord reforged
>WHY DO YOU FIGHT ME MY CHILDREN, I AM YOUR MOTHER, Elune .

>>50678947
>immediately mind-controls everyone who uses the Light or Nature magic
>bullets, axes, fists, and Arcane do nothing
>Elements aren't very effective
>only edgelords (Fel/Shadow/Runic Power) can deal any real damage

Truly the darkest timeline.

>>50678342
Please, no. Bad enough that they watered down everything the Light is, don't piss in the wound by turning it into some stupid Order nonsense. That's not what it's ever been about.

Also
>implying Xe'ra isn't Kil'jaeden

>>50678342
But isn't Arcane the Order energy?

>>50678342
>>50679319
And so I'm not the only one who sees the Light having fucked up lore

We get it, neckbeards don't want to be reminded of God, so now it's like the force?

Damn I'm confused on what the Light is any more

>>50679640
But it does rely on having faith in your cause and belief that it exists so there's that I guess?

>>50679640
The Light's been pretty much like the Force for as long as it's been around. In WC1 the Light didn't really exist, and clerics worked like they do in DnD, gaining spells from a non-specific god. After the Light was introduced it's pretty much always been described as a mix between the Force and zen Buddhism that just happens to wear trappings of medieval Christianity.

>>50679722
They've changed that too

See enough r/atheism complaints have changed it to willpower alone really

Now faith is a substitute yes and it's hard to be a Light wielded without religious reverence but many fedorons have argued that too

Now you might be thinking I'm exaggerating how atheists have reacted to this, just look at current lore to see how true it is

Blizz latest development is retconning a bunch of afterlife stuff and making it into a nihilists wet dream, look up the shadowlands

>>50679905
Honestly I thought they added afterlives in Legion.

We see the Halls of Valor, we see Helheim, we see the Shadowlands, and now we know Druids go to the Dream when they die, which is more than we knew before.

Arthas actually is in a special place in Hell (well, Super-Hell), and Sylvanas is headed there too.

Where Paladins go was never really touched on, if I recall.

>>50679905
I think it has less to do with atheism and more to do with edgelords who want to do the CLEAVE AND SMITE thing without actually having any restrictions. I mean hell, how often do we hear stories about people trying to get away with murderhoboing as paladins in D&D/PF?

>>50671475
Tirion was a humble guy in vanila but he realized that someone had to take command and get shit done with the light or else people will slowly succumb to the power of the scourge and nobody else in power positions were giving a fuck. He decided that he had to get shit done by using "better marketing" than being a quiet and humble guy or else shit will slowly but inevitably go down.

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>still no proper Dark Iron presence in Ironforge with NPCs

>>50672866
>explosive midget trolls
Goblins are not related to Trolls.

>>50679640
It use to be from my understanding:
>WC1
Non-existent, Clerics are your average god deity worshippers while orc acolytes are evil god worshippers.
>WC2
Powerful good spellcasting shenanigans
>WC3
Holy energies from non-specified source
>Post tFT transition into WoW
Explained as the three virtues, giving the whole thing a non-theistic philosophical spin, however it was never specified that there WEREN'T gods initially. It was breddy cool as a take on The Force the way it was in the original Star Wars trilogy, although it took some weird forms when fans took from it that Deathknights must be Sith to Paladin-Jedi (Lookin' at you, Tales from the Past).
>BC
The Light is a cosmic force and has its own plane like the elemental planes and the twisting nether. Also the Warcraft equivalent of midichlorians happened, but with Lawful Good starfaring windchimes. Now these windchimes had within them the capacity to become chaotic evil when they reached a certain point in their lifecycle, which was still kinda cool, but really not worth the retcon
>Chronicles
The Light is one of two forces that created the universe, but totally the better one than the other so if you're not a Light worshipper you're a fucking filthy heretic who will be assimilated as the lowliest of the low in the new hierarchy. We're stuck fighting their stupid war against the Shadow for them because for some reason the Naaru need an Army of Light made up of mortals and other assorted real-spacers.

>>50679611
Shhh, Anon, I'm in the Metzone right now. i don't need you killing my thunder with logic.

>>50680984
Shame, it would have redeemed worst race a little.

Worgen still succ so hard.

>>50681029
Goblins are mutated pygmies. The mutagen in question is radioactive kaja-mite.
The one who tested effects of kaja-mite on pygmies was Mimiron.
Then the proto-goblins were used by Trolls as slaves mining kaja-mite in area of Kezan, which furthered the increase of their intelligence.

>>50681001
>Now these windchimes had within them the capacity to become chaotic evil when they reached a certain point in their lifecycle, which was still kinda cool, but really not worth the retcon
It's connected with how how universe started.
>At first, there was only Light
>Whenever energy of Light depleted, Void came to be
>Void and Light started to annihilate each other, like matter and anti-matter
>This caused Universe to be, including proto-matter, which created planets and stars, while Light and Void got separated from it and each other
>Leftovers of Light in the universe caused Life to be, depending on how much of Light there was, that's how powerful beings came to be, with highest amounts created Titan World-Souls that were Arcane in nature, basically Light-elementals Naaru, and other life-forms
>In astral realm of Twisting Nether, Light and Void energies seeps over, and in annihilation of each other, Fel energies come to be
>In Twisting Nether various demons come to be, and they are filled with Fel energies, ranging from Annihilan (Pit Lords) and Nathrezim (Dreadlords; also masters of Shadow Magic) to Infernals/Abyssals (constructs made from stone and Fel) and Void Hounds (the two headed ones)
Basically Dark Naaru are Naaru whose Light power is mostly depleted, but when they are completely out, they turn to Void Gods, mimicking how Void came to be where Light burned out.

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>>50680984
>>50681130
>share almost identical facial features sans tusks and weird skin colour
>strongly connected in lore since their inception
>not related, they mutated from this literal who race we pulled out of our ass in cata
Sometimes blizz adds to much convolution to their racial genealogies.

>>50683175
They could make pygmies more similar to Trolls and Goblins, would make more sense. No amounts of kaja-mite would excuse that amount of mutation.

>>50683289
Then again, if Arcane energies could devolve Trolls into Elves, then maybe kaja-mite could evolve pygmies to superior shape?

I have trouble believing Xe'Ra is evil because this is Blizzard, who are as subtle as a brick thrown in your face. They also love redeeming mass murderers like Illidan, Grom, or Phoenix Kerrigan (Starcraft but w/e it's still retarded).

>>50683389
>Grom
>redeemed
Even Illidan and Phoenix Kerrigan wasn't as bullcrap as ending of WoD and Grom acting as if he were on their side all along.

>LEL LIGHT ORDER AND GOODNESS ARE JUST ANOTHER KIND OF EVIL AND ANGELS ARE LIKE NAZIS AND THE DARK CREATURES ARE JUST FIGHTING BACK AGAINST THE OPPRESSION OF MY PAREN- I MEAN CHURC- I MEAN THE LIGHT

Never seen this kind of subversion before! This shit was just as annoying when I was fourteen as it is now.

>>50683710
I know you're being sarcastic but you must realize this is where the lore is headed.

Yogg-Saron told us himself, hope is an illusion.

>>50683710
Sneer all you want, you know it deep in your heart that some asshat author at Blizzard's is going to go down this road.

Don't forget, at some point, Blizzard started to hire machinimanists, and I presume all of us are familiar with Tales of the Past and how that menagerie of animefueled fanfiction turned out. It was amazing in its cheesiness, btw.

And don't deny that TotP isn't at least generally representative of what the majority of Warcraft fanfiction was.

Thinking about it, it boils down to this: On top of Chris' utter ADHD to his own works and Kosak's utter disregard for anything decent in Warcraft, we got teenagers who were just fondling their own creative genitals in puberty induced self-righteousness who suddenly got paid to do the same thing and just busting one deadbeat narrative nut after the other. And those authors probably haven't matured whatsoever.

>>50681130
>>50683175

The WoW magazine mentioned the Goblins and Pygmies sharing a common unknown ancestor, while Warcraft Chronicle says Goblins were somewhat a mistake on the part of Mimiron while working with the Earthen, Mechagnomes, and Troggs.

I imagine the Goblins & Pygmies are involved with the Troggs, Drogbar, and by extension the Kobolds. Pygmies share a vague resemblance to Gnomes and even Dwarves, Troggs are related to Earthen as a side experiment (which itself is a retcon of what we learned as Uldaman) and the Drogbar feel like Troggs on steroids though are far more intelligent and sociable.

At the very least they're not mutant Trolls and are a Titan-spawned race.

>>50683710
so we are going on the Golden Compass style?
Great....

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>>50684022

Tales of the Past 2 was a decent adventure story.

3 got really heavy-handed in the preachiness about the 'MUH HORDE AREN'T EVIL'. The use of God too was retarded.

Though speaking of god in WoW...

>>50684984

Drogbar are literally Rock Trolls.

>>50683710
I can't say if I'm even relieved that others see the way I do now.

The Light is on a path to becoming 'waah restriction of freedom', when it's literally the stuff of creation.

>>50680484

>ignores Sylvanas

>>50683389

Xe'ra being Kil'jaeden or otherwise evul is just a meme for Blizzcucks who pretend Warcraft isn't filled with bad writing and bad planning.

>>50683710

>pretending WC Lore isn't already filled with Dindus

It's had Dindus since WC3.

>>50685945
>Drogbar are literally Rock Trolls.
Where can I learn more about them besides Highmountain?

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>>50678342
>SNLEVL
>Reminds me of the word "Sneevil"
I'm getting browser based vidya flashbacks

>>50686284

Highmountain's pretty much it.

>>50686444
Oh god, those box stealing bastards.

You're taking me on a nostalgia trip, maaaan

>>50684984
why would a race completely unrelated to trolls mutate into a bunch of midget troll lookalikes? doesn't seem very logical, but i guess it wouldn't be blizzard lore if it had any kind of internal consistency.

kind of reminds me of that time those spooky guys in outland with the teeth turned out to be double mutated holy-eredar.

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What would happen if the Lich King was Ner'zhul in Arthas' body

>>50688282
Wrath would consist of PCs being lured to Northrend to pick up ominous weapons.

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Is it just me or are the current night elves basically defined solely by Malfurion and Tyrande's prejudices?

I'm not a big fan of the current Night Elves. I liked that they reintroduced the Highborne into their society in Cataclysm, but that hasn't really went anywhere since. Their mediocrity became really noticeable during the recent Suramar weekly quests.

I also really like Maiev and her watchers, but they don't seem to have much of a presence in the story, serving mostly as parts of the world quest system.

>>50689802

You got it backwards; night elf society defined those two to begin with.

Funny thing about immortality is that not much changes in that time period.

>>50689802

The Night Elves are a Neutral faction shoehorned into the overly Stormwind focused Alliance. The cultural clashes from hanging out with an Alliance with Arcane masters and despoilers of the trees you expect to get more attention don't.

Malfurion and Tyrande in particular suffer from not having Illidan around to play off of and get them some internal conflict. The closest any post-WC3 character has come is Fandral and he went full raid boss.

>>50688282
Wrath wouldn't be so terrible

>the Blood Princes die due to complete failures of their troops and plans
>rezzed

>Drakuru's plan goes off nearly perfectly except for your betrayal
>Arthas show up to mock him and then kills him instead of you
#trollundeathsmatter

>>50690290

My take on it is I think the LK still had some of Arthas' emotions buried deep inside. Arthas was quite hateful of Orcs, no reason to think he wasn't hateful of Trolls now.

Might have influenced that.

>>50690290

Funny enough, being abusive or negligent to the troops is more Ner'zhul's hobby.

>>50690391
He didn't like elves very much either.

More likely it was there because Blizz thought it would be cool to have that scene in the game.

>>50686194
Knowing /tg/, I'm pretty sure the word is being parrotted here for the most part, but I still gotta ask:

Are you sure what "Dindu" means? Are you SURE-sure?

Because Dindu implies that the person or people in question was completely and utterly innocent and that outside forces tried to shove the blame on them.

Meanwhile, in Warcraft 3, while Thrall is rubbing his green dickhead over muh proud warrior shaman heritage, Grom openly admits that the chieftains wanted the gift of the demons because it made them stronger. Like with the eredar pre-Thal'Kiel, the orcs didn't care for the consequences, they only saw the result and found it worthy.

If we go by Rise of the Horde, it gets even clearer: The Orcs and Draenei may have led separate lives next to each other, but the orcs were very skeptical of the Draenei, and the Legion could exploit that. The orcs didn't realise that the thing they wanted, which was martial power, would cost them so much until it was too late, but to assume that the outcome was undeserved is outright wrong.

>>50691490
>Because Dindu implies that the person or people in question was completely and utterly innocent and that outside forces tried to shove the blame on them.

Wrong. Dindu is for someone that quite obviously did something but denies it with all his capacity, even appearing as if the act of such a blatant lie didn't affect the person at all.

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>>50689802
I'm pretty sure the Night Elves lost all their flavour once artworks like this became the canon portrayal of them instead of this

http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb57088/wow/nl/images/5/5e/Night_Elves_-_Concept.jpg

http://orig08.deviantart.net/54c4/f/2014/117/9/6/warcraft___night_elf_assassin_by_samwisedidier-d7g71ee.jpg

http://t06.deviantart.net/ZVpXZrAR8O_TtJnp2BoEEvWNh4w=/fit-in/700x350/filters:fixed_height(100,100):origin()/pre12/52b1/th/pre/f/2014/117/8/9/warcraft___master_druid_by_samwisedidier-d7g78k7.jpg

http://orig01.deviantart.net/6dd8/f/2014/117/2/c/warcraft___night_elf_druid_by_samwisedidier-d7g6xbj.jpg

The savagery that they're accused of by Elisande is completely gone.

>>50691507
My mistake, then.

>>50691490

>Orcs are noble savage corrupted by evul demons

>Orcs meet noble savage cow Redskins

>Thrall (an Orc) is the only character other than Jaina the Grassburner who does what Medivh says when he's doing his ranting hobo act

>Daein Proudmoore comes around to be the strawman character keeping the Dindus down

WC3 Orcs aren't Dindus gaiz really.

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>>50691948
>try to portray daelin being wrong
>later event establish that he was absolutely right when it came to orcs

>>50691948
Perhaps is it possible that WC3 orcs are majority Frostwolf, which are shown in WoD to not be as savage-tier as the rest of the clans are?

>>50691948
>Noble Savage Corruption
I explained that point. Also it only comes across as that when you read the summary material.
>Reskin cows
Tauren are probably the most detailed attempt of a tribal culture in Warcraft next to Gurubashi trolls. Also if you dis Tauren one more time I will smack you with a dog's ballsack.
>Thrall goes to Kalimdor
Honestly his circumstances were pretty much in favour for a migration. He was stuck in Hillsbrad, surrounded by people who wanted him and his people dead or enslaved, had no cultural history to speak of that compels him to stay in the EK and he's the only leader next to Jaina who has any experience reading spoopy magiks. Terenas is just a regular human with no otherworldly skills and Arthas was an angry tween.
>Daelin is a strawman
He comes across as Strawman from the perspective of the campaign, but have a bit of empathy for him and you'll realise that all his motivations are right. Just because Jaina tells him the orcs are right doesn't mean he'll listen - He's got first-hand experience from a war that the orcs started regardless of who pulled their string and the thought of an established orcish nation is naturally frightening.

Orcs are only Dindus if you accept the racial summary for granted without looking deeper.

>>50689632
>Garrosh, I don't think that's legit
>Come on, stop being a pussy and take that weapon! We can take the scourge head on with it!
>But why is it under a cardboard box held by a stick with a piece of string attached to it?
>I don't know, young orc. Liches be crazy
>Also, what's with all the birdseed?
>Hell if I know. Maybe it's some druid weapon
>Also, why don't YOU go and get it?
>I already have Gorehowl, it would be unfair of me to take another 2-hander when I'm not even maining fury this expac
>This goes on for a while
>Behind them, hidden in some bushes a couple of yards away, Ner'zharthas quietly grumbles to himself

>>50692071
More like the idea of trying to transport the citizens of Lord aeronautical across the sea is a ridiculous idea and neither Terenas or Arthas were going to flee their home land and leave the people there to die. In that regard Jaina had far more freedom.

>>50692138
>Lord Aeronautical

When Autocorrect has the best ideas for NPCs.

>>50691560
Nelves shouldve joined the Horde

>>50691991

>pretending we're supposed to support Daelin

>>50692071

> I explained that point. Also it only comes across as that when you read the summary material.

They're a villain race who got turned into Dindus turned evul by evul demons.

> Honestly his circumstances were pretty much in favour for a migration. He was stuck in Hillsbrad, surrounded by people who wanted him and his people dead or enslaved, had no cultural history to speak of that compels him to stay in the EK and he's the only leader next to Jaina who has any experience reading spoopy magiks.

>Medivh runs around screaming durka durka without showing anything that shows he can back up his durking

>Metzen's pet and a greenburner of course totally do what some ranting hobo says they're not like those mean racist Humans

> He comes across as Strawman from the perspective of the campaign, but have a bit of empathy for him and you'll realise that all his motivations are right. Just because Jaina tells him the orcs are right doesn't mean he'll listen - He's got first-hand experience from a war that the orcs started regardless of who pulled their string and the thought of an established orcish nation is naturally frightening.

Okay you can stop now.

>>50692259

Going Horde didn't stop the Blood Elves from getting declawed. They stopped being all demoney. What with them having another Sunwell.

I wonder if there are any WoW players that follow the old Norse religions and, if so, how hard they cringe at Stormheim/The Valarjar's apparent need to shove runic runes of runic runicness everywhere.

>>50692368
You don't have to be religious to cringe at that. Basic knowledge about germanic mythology is enough.

>>50692411
I know you don't have to actually believe in them to cringe at all the RUNES and VALOR, but to them it must be another order of magnitude, like a rabid televangelist trying to watch https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Young_Men.

>>50692368
>>50692411
>>50692458
runic magic is (literally) god tier. Spellchucker fucking shits need not apply

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So does anybody else dig the Helarjar's style over the Scourge and Forsaken's? They're way more mystical over the other two Undead factions who are more industrial/mad sciency. Especially the Scourge who got more mechanical in Wrath.

>>50692707
the Scourge were more like Mordor honestly, right down to the buildings in Icecrown. The purely undead aspect of the Helarjar is pretty cool though. It's actually weird how they never used the simple army of lost souls type of undead before

>>50692888

>Mordor

Tolkien was a reactionary who wrote Mordor and Isengard as representactions of the modern world's evul (with the Hobbits being all that's good and traditional). So what's your point?

>>50692308
Them getting corrupted is the lore since wc2.
It's not shameful dindu production like the ally dreanei.

>>50692259
With the Orcs responsible for Cenarius' death? Never an option.

>>50692004
Thrall's orcs at that time were warsong, frostwolf, his guard were burning blade.
The bulk were orcs from the camps, those did not have a tribal identity anymore.

>>50693280
Why get mad over someone dying if you can just bring him back for Cata?

>>50691991
At that time is was absurdly wrong.
Unless he can time travel he stays wrong.

>>50693332
>orcs will never change
>orcs dont change
woooooow, how could he be so wrong

>>50692259
That's what I've been saying since the closed beta days of vanilla in 2004.

>>50692322
This is another shame and wasted opportunity. Also the Sunwell now being infused with THE LIGHT just adds insult to injury. Also the Fel-green eyes haven't been edited out as far as I'm aware, so technically all Blood Elves still are tainted even when they didn't actually tap the kool aid once?

>>50693280
Would be much more problematic if >>50693300 wasn't a thing, really. The whole situation dropped from outright deicide to "These guys got high on amphetamines and destroyed the popemobile, it's really offensive to us but really Francis is still rockin' and nobody got hurt."

Seriously though, the moment you finish playing Warcraft 3, the lore really doesn't tell you in any way that Night Elves and Orcs are mad at eachother, anymore. They don't even say anything about the Darkspear being offensive to them. The whole misunderstanding seemed resolved. It's only with WoW where they pick that up and make it a thing that Nelves are STILL pissed at their demigod dead and the Warsong still alive and kicking over trees.

>>50663528
>You are all giving Anduin too much credit...
Oh fuck off, don't kill the hope inside me, that our new pussy-king finally starts grewing some balls.

>>50692322
Shouldve joined the alliance and have left out the high elf remnant which was a giant asspull... wouldve made the alliance have a bit more internal conflict.

>>50693812
>>50693280
They kissed and made up at the end of wciii. Wouldve also emphasized the Horde's new forgiving nature and Nelf feraliness.

Other (equally shitty) opinions of mine:
>forsaken shouldve been alliance
>priest and paladin shouldve been alliance exclusive
>shaman and druid shouldve been horde exclusive
>continents dont need the exact amount of capitals for each faction (you can have non city hubs)
>none-monstrous draenei a mistake
>worgen druid background a mistake
>quelthalas shouldnt exist as a city

>>50694184
>Forsaken should be alliance
Definitely been discussed, often times rebuked because it's a one-sided thing, really: The majority of human forsaken would definitely want to go back to being friends with their loved ones who hopefully escaped the curse of undeath, but the alliance has zero intelligence telling them whether or not these undead really are free-willed or not or if it's all just a ruse to spread the plague.
>Class-restrictions
Having such one-size-fits-all classes are the death of lore, anyway. Basically all the cultural nuances that exist just fucking fly out the window and to this day, I know of no player who could actually play that Troll Witchdoc they wanted, because they're in some place between priest, warlock and shaman.
So Blizzard tried their best making their classes as neutral as possible, with the exception of motherfucking paladins suddenly being light-casters who also have done enough squats to swing a hammer.
>No need for full capitols
Sounds reasonable, although I'd argue that a definitive capitol helps with the playerrace identity. Trolls felt really lost before cata.
>Non-monstrous Draenei
Yeah, it's a shame, but the porn helped.
>Worgen druids
Yes, yes, and yes
>Quel'Thalas
I was really fucking confused. Just judging from the mission https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5IBg_ATBsY , you'd think the sunwell was inside the city., although the loading screen does make it appear like it's on the sunwell grove for some fucking reason.

So what was up deciding "naw, only one half of silvermoon is borked"? And if it was used as capitol of Belves, it should've been a duct-tape-and-spit kind of repair action.

>>50693038
Given that he was a trench-slogger in WWI, he probably designed Mordor after the torn battlefields he saw, especially with all the jagged burnt shrapnel and such.

>>50694447
You'd get a proper reason for the Scarlet Crusade to secede from the CoL and be up in arms against the alliance instead of going muh xenophobia

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>>50694184
My ideal would be sticking with the original factions with the players as independent adventurers more flexible with their allegiances. Night elves and undead would start out neutral towards their respective factions. A human paladin journeys through ashenvale and comes across a night elf rogue. Since they're neutral to eachother, the paladin can both heal and attack the night elf just like with Neutral NPCs. If they make a party they're treated as Friendly for the duration of the group. This would foster a sense of uncertainty and distrust, since if they come across a treasure chest the rogue might drop the party and stab the paladin in the back.

It would even play into the night elves distrust of the arcane, since mages and warlocks casting AoE spells might hit them unintentionally if they aren't grouped.

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How is Wrathion even smart enough to make all of these plans? Isn't he somewhere on the order of less than ten years old?

Did the Titan thingamabob accelerate his mental development?

>>50696210
Let me summarise for you

>Dragons

Thank you

>>50696343
>>Dragons

Do you mean to imply that whelps are always sapient (and chessmasters) on Azeroth, or that the fact that dragons exist in and of itself justifies this little inconsistency?

>>50696210
Apparently dragon whelps are sentient and sapient even before hatching, so when his egg's shell broke, he was already under mental/intellectual development, unlike human/other races offspring. He hit the ground running when it comes to mental capacity, is what I'm trying to say (or, rather, Blizzard's writings are trying to say).

He also spent some time living in Ravenholdt Manor, where he took over the organization and, I assume, learned nearly everything regarding planning, strategy, backstabbing, generally being a cunt, and other Rogue-like qualities.

>>50693812
>Also the Fel-green eyes haven't been edited out as far as I'm aware, so technically all Blood Elves still are tainted even when they didn't actually tap the kool aid once?
The Fel influence is filtering out of their system. The green eyes is a lingering byproduct of their past transgressions that has yet to fade.

How come the tauren didn't bat an eyelash over the orcs' killing of Cenarius?

>>50696773
Because they weren't there for that, and the orcs did the tauren a solid by helping beat back the centaurs.

>>50696773
Cenarius was killed before the Orcs met the Tauren if I'm not mistaken and, even so, his influence seems to be mostly over the Night Elves, being the son of their beloved goddess.

Trolls and Worgen certainly seem to lack any fucks to spare about him, and the Tauren basically had a 1-weekend course on druiding and were promptly forgotten by Big C as far as we know.

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>>50684984
>while Warcraft Chronicle says Goblins were somewhat a mistake on the part of Mimiron while working with the Earthen, Mechagnomes, and Troggs.
Maybe you should fact-check instead of writing lies?

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>>50697940
>>50684984
>Troggs are related to Earthen as a side experiment (which itself is a retcon of what we learned as Uldaman)
After Chronicles, Troggs were revealed to be initial attempt at making perfect titan-forged helper, which was an overcomplicated design. Mind that Tribunal of Ages is falsified history made by Loken.

>>50694447
>Definitely been discussed, often times rebuked because it's a one-sided thing, really: The majority of human forsaken would definitely want to go back to being friends with their loved ones who hopefully escaped the curse of undeath, but the alliance has zero intelligence telling them whether or not these undead really are free-willed or not or if it's all just a ruse to spread the plague.

Make Forsaken [Unfriendly] with most of the Alliance and have them work up reputation in questlines that reforge the trust. Makes a better store, a better faction composition AND puts the reputation system to use in one fell swoop.

The Horde has even less reason to trust the Forsaken
>Undead are a big thing of the Old Horde, so a big no-no
>They are either demon-controlled plaguebringers that try to kill or re-recruited the Orcs
>Or they are the very people they fought a war against and that imprisoned and enslaved them for thirty years
>They also bring death and disease by purely existing, so the Tauren should also despise them

>>50692707
Sylvanas should get killed and Forsaken should get former Val'kyr of Helya as conclave of leaders, with some Kvaldir to the mix, as ruling class.

>>50696773
>>50697050
The Warsong clan was moidering Cenarius, and they didn't have any access to Tauren auxiliaries. Cairne and his delegation of Bloodhoofs stuck exclusively with Thrall.

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>>50698519
Forsaken should be purged with fire.

>>50699668
Ragnaros go to bed you've been replaced.

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>>50699686
He's living it up in HOTS.

>>50698519
Yes well the only TWO faction when WoW first launched always bugged me because there were still so many divides between all the races.

But I'm not sure I want to launch in to that.

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>>50699668
From your perspective, everyone should be purged with fire.
You are not wrong.

>>50699714
HOTS is the after life.

>>50699831
So it's Blizzard Valhalla? Is cool

>>50699831
Then how is Sylvanas already there? Unless.

Oh. Oh, the one on Azeroth isn't the real Sylvanas is it. That would explain how she went from "questionable" to "E V I L" between Wrath and Cata. It's not her in there, it's one of the primary Scourge Val'kyr. This would explain why the Forsaken are becoming Scourge 2.0 and why Helya was so quick to accept her bargain - Helya would be much more amenable to one of her SISTERS IN SUFFERING than a dead elf.

It all makes sense now.

So how come ley-lines aren't more important? For that matter, aren't ley-lines the carriers of Arcane magic? Shouldn't Arcane be considered a "nature" religion like Druidism and Shamanism, as well, when it's literally energy that comes out of the fucking ground?

i've been thinking about this for a bit after having quested through eversong on a BC server and thinking about the Sunwell's restoration and shit. Ley-lines technically play such an important part, and I think they should play an even stronger one by basically becoming Warcraft's equivalent of the Warp as the source of all sorcery, with the lines giving out a spectrum of magical energies and depending on your cultural practice you pick the one you feel strongest and pull it out of the ground.

This would make sense because when you start drawing pure arcane magic, which the Nelves did originally, that's when the whole planet starts to shake and shiver because you're tearing at its literal bloodvessels to get the premium juice out, and that intense magical quake sends tremors through the aether and makes it possible for the Legion to track it down (speaking of pre-Chronicles Sargeras now).

It would also make things like THE LIGHT more sensible because yeah, it is a form of magic and a bit like The Force, but it is still a majorly philosophical and spiritual concept and with certain tweaks can be utilised in a terribly angry form that for example Blood Knights and the Scarlet Crusade would employ. Simultaneously, it is also a concept that can be discovered by alien races such as Draenei, which leaves bullshit like the Naaru in their current LIGHT ENFORCER role out.

With this in mind, it would also clarify why primitive cultures like current trolls, despite not having scholarly academies, can tap into the Arcane and cast spells, because they've found a makeshift way to channel pure arcane without precise research - They treat it just like another ooga-booga shake rattle bang drum eat mushroom ceremony.

>>50700247
So with a tweak like that, the Nexus War is actually a LOT worse, bordering on "Malygos you idiot" territory rather than "please stop geeking our mages."

ALTERING AZEROTH'S BLOODFLOW is a big deal in and of itself, but the risk of killing the planet itself AND his own Dragonflight is so great as to be an effective deterrent for anyone sane.

>>50699929
Don't be silly willy!
Of course tha'ts just tooo silly?!
What's next, bolvar is ner'zhul? Don't be a willigllysilly!

>>50700247
To build on this: Stuff like Fel would naturally also be a manifestation of Arcane, building on the predatory concepts of nature conveyed as magical metaphor. This would intertwine Fel practices into Shamanism and Druidism and other assorted nature religions in Azeroth that allow you to throw lightnings and fireballs and other shit. The main reason not to play with Fel is because it's the scary part of the otherworld where you have to actually give a lot back in order to channel it and you're likely to fall into a bottomless pit. it's basically if the ley-lines are a noblebright warp, Fel is Slaanesh sucking your soul out your asshole but if you exercise willpower you can sorta get away with a black eye.

This simple change alone would make away with strong inclinations of good and evil and tie demons and occultism much closer to the general practices of magic, giving the general sorcery a much more varied applicationfield.

One instance where I feel the ley-lines were ultimately neglected is with the Sunwell. in Warcraft 3, it is explained as a nexus of ley-energies. Thanks to modern WoW lore, that means somebody dropped a lot of arcane in a lake and suddenly it's radiating energy. Rolling back to Warcraft 3, it would have ment that the ley-lines converged at this place and made it a naturally occurring, although weaker well of eternity fed by surrounding ley-lines. Corrupting the Sunwell would therefore not have ment that it's somehow "inaccessible", but outright poisonous to tap into, which is why all the Belves suddenly felt so hungry. They lived in a place where all the ley-lines connected to a poisoned spring, so tapping into this network to sate their hunger would have killed them, corrupted them to become wretched or fall victim to the Lich King's necromancy, and they couldn't migrate because all of Lordaeron was equally poisoned.

[cont.]

>>50700532
Nobody is buying it, Ner'zhul.

>>50700540
However, they still occasionally had to, like dehydrated people in Africae have to drink from the waterhole where all the people shat and where oilcompanies drop their old barrels, which left bits and pieces of Fel in their metaphysical system, which in turn only turns their hunger worse. Remember: Fel is the energy that consumes. So they feed in small doses from a thoroughly Fel attuned ley-spring, which explains why even after having access to a restored Sunwell, they're still kind of demonic and also occasionally have to feed on extra sources.

High elves, on the other hand, who have lived far away from the Sunwell during its corruption, have had the option to find strong leylines outside of Lordaeron and may therefore consume pure arcane, as before, allowing them to be not dependent on the Sunwell, although they definitely feel like they could go for a bit extra every now and then.

Thinking about this, I believe the big shock to the Elves in Quel'Thalas should have happened the very moment the Sunwell got corrupted. Instead of being cut off, the huge influx of necromantic shadow fel death evil magic made them all swallow one big gulp of corruption and made those closest to the Sunwell Wretched, if it didn't outright kill them, with the rest undergoing an actual physical mutation to further drive home the point that they are now Blood Elves.

Restoring the Sunwell however would then be a process of reverse-engineering, slowly but steadily cleaning up the corruption around as the Sunwell's corruption basically annihilated all of Quel'Thalas in one fell swoop and insta-blighted the land, cutting off smaller ley nexuses by placing runestones until the Sunwell's ley-flow is contained, and then the purification can begin where they try to bring the fel-attuned vibration in a calm state to resemble its original Arcane attunement.

[cont.]

>>50700711
To finish off this text, the scientific approach to the Sunwell's restoration would make Velen's interference obsolete and even undesirable, because him just dumping "light corruption" into the Well would disturb it even more, possibly leading to a metaphysical reaction where the two powers create so much tension they just become volatile and discharge such a powerful shockwave through the ley-lines it would basically blow all of Quel'Thalas out of Azeroth's crust.

Basically, by making the ley-lines a more central piece of sorcery in Warcraft, we have an actual science behind the whole thing, which is what Chronicles tried to do, but the science is open enough to allow for variations and hybrid forms in-between as the lore eventually progresses and will inevitably demand new forms of spellchuckery.

>>50694966
>female orc skeleton is completely unchanged since 1999 or w/e that article was from
god damn son

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On a scale of 1-10, how salty are you that you'll never be as relevant as the Forsaken?

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>>50700899
Negative-ten.

>>50700540
>One instance where I feel the ley-lines were ultimately neglected is with the Sunwell. in Warcraft 3, it is explained as a nexus of ley-energies. Thanks to modern WoW lore, that means somebody dropped a lot of arcane in a lake and suddenly it's radiating energy.
Except that Elves chose a place that is nexus os ley-lines as a perfect spot to make Sunwell.

Why people mention Chronicles in their posts and then reveal that they either didn't read it at all, or that they completely lack reading comprehension skills?

>>50700711
>Thinking about this, I believe the big shock to the Elves in Quel'Thalas should have happened the very moment the Sunwell got corrupted. Instead of being cut off, the huge influx of necromantic shadow fel death evil magic made them all swallow one big gulp of corruption and made those closest to the Sunwell Wretched, if it didn't outright kill them, with the rest undergoing an actual physical mutation to further drive home the point that they are now Blood Elves.
And how is current lore contradicting this line?

Also, Runestones existed from the very beginning of Kingdom of Quel'Thalas. And they existed to shield themselves from Legion's notice. So Sunwell was pretty contained from the beginning.

>>50701115
>enough to reply to you
FTFY

>>50701262
>Old Gods
>not whispering to anyone who gets nearby

Seriously, shutting them up is harder than killing them.

>>50701192
First bit, I was in a moment there. I have a copy of Chronicles but was too lazy to pick it out, only briefly reading online and the first thing it said "The put Well of Eternity water in a lake so there is the Sunwell fellas", so I assumed that having ley-lines at all was not a prerequisite in making it.

Second bit I have no actual written accord THAT it happened. All written accords and sources I have read and instances where I encountered bits about the relationship between the Sunwell and the Helves and Belves treat it like some form of shutdown. There's no mentioning of people still attempting to tap into the Sunwell, there's no accord that clearly states "When the Sunwell turned purple a bunch of people instantly imploded and got the life sucked out of them while the rest of us suddenly became a bit more demonic/shadowy/evil"

As for the Runestones, that's exactly the point. They worked to well in maintaining and protecting the land up until they didn't, the idea to use them again to contain the corruption.

come on man don't be shooting holes in my boles just cause my ideas be so swoles.

>>50699787

Well Sargeras might have a point, but it seems like an impossible task.

To purge EVERYTHING with fire...you'd need some kind of Infinite Legion of Burning.

And who knows how long THAT would take to put together?

It's not like there are countless destructive entities just locked up somewhere that could be freed to spread a tide of destruction throughout the cosmos.

>>50701400
Wells are located outside/above of ley-line nexuses, so adding bits of Light is not affecting ley-lines themselves.Wells are likely helping pulling magic from ley-lines, but are not affecting ley-lines themselves.

Highborne chose Tirisfal first and then Quel'Thalas because the areas were more magical than others (pre-Chronicles lore). Tirisfal was likely felt as such as this is where Tyr detonated himself in attempt to kill two C'thraxxi (Faceless Generals), and he had a bit of Titan's soul in himself. Elves left because some were also getting insane (due to semi-dead C'Thraxxi under the ground). Later they reached future Quel'Thalas.

Fel is magic that always relied on sacrificing life to power up spells (The Last Guardian, random orc warlock slashed his hand to use his own blood to power up his fire spell), so trying to group it up with Druidism and Shamanism, and saying it shouldn't be that different from Arcane is just wrong.

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>>50661159
>Anduin's the one that initiated the war
What? I thought Greymane was the one in command of the Alliance forces -- and that Anduin just served as King of Stormwind, nothing more. Plus I don't like the idea of Anduin actually supporting a war. He and Baine are supposed to be the level headed ones!

>>50664356
>can use shadowform
>means that anduin has a touch of the old gods in him
Wouldn't the Scourge and the Old Gods be in direct opposition of each other?

>>50701564
DREADLORDS, SON

>>50701564
>Plus I don't like the idea of Anduin actually supporting a war. He and Baine are supposed to be the level headed ones!

I wouldn't call Anduin's obsession with making sure that the big green cocks stay nice and shiny is particularly level headed.

>>50693812

> Seriously though, the moment you finish playing Warcraft 3, the lore really doesn't tell you in any way that Night Elves and Orcs are mad at eachother, anymore. They don't even say anything about the Darkspear being offensive to them. The whole misunderstanding seemed resolved. It's only with WoW where they pick that up and make it a thing that Nelves are STILL pissed at their demigod dead and the Warsong still alive and kicking over trees.

WC3 was supposed to herald a new world for the Alliance (or what's left of it) and the Horde. The Eastern Kingdoms get smashed and the Horde reforms.

They threw that out for faction war of course. Complete with shoehorning.

>>50694184

>forsaken shouldve been alliance

Not in Alliance or Horde.

>priest and paladin shouldve been alliance exclusive

Or exclusive to the appropriate races.

>shaman and druid shouldve been horde exclusive

Same as Paladins and Priests.

>continents dont need the exact amount of capitals for each faction (you can have non city hubs)

Yeah.

>none-monstrous draenei a mistake

Having playable Eredar is okay. They shouldn't have made them so Light focused or at least did more to keep in line with their WC3 image and history. The Draenei shouldn't be mutant Eredar either.

>worgen druid background a mistake

Furry Night Elves.

>quelthalas shouldnt exist as a city

Nah it shouldn't.

>>50694447

> but the alliance has zero intelligence telling them whether or not these undead really are free-willed or not or if it's all just a ruse to spread the plague.

Neither does the Horde.

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>>50701608
Doesn't the Son of the Wolf comic show Anduin killing the Dreadlord that's trying to corrupt him, though? Unless your suggestions there's another one.

>>50701624
Problem is the world could very well end at any moment... but instead of focusing their forces on collecting the Pillars of Creation and mounting a defense against the Burning Legion, both the Horde and the Alliance are instead battling each other just because Greymane and Sylvanas want to hatefuck each other. It just seems very silly that Anduin would be okay with that, even though the Burning Legion is a far greater threat.

I just hope the next patch has Wrathion return and convince Anduin and Baine to take control of their respective factions.

>>50701673
>Unless your suggestions there's another one.
Detheroc could easily send Shaw to give Anduin false information that would force his hand to war. And he wouldn't even have to be there, because Detheroc was most powerful of Varimathras/Balnazzar/Detheroc trio, and mind controlled entirety of human army of Garithos, Garithos included. Without possessing anyone.

>>50701673
>implying Anduin doesn't know that twelve murderhobos will somehow solve everything