>intergalactic network of planets and civilizations come to

>>50640240
This movie got so weird so quickly and kept get stranger.

>>50640240

Alright I'll take the bait just in case there are still faggots out there who agree with what you said

>implying enlightenment is worth anything
>still being autistically fascinated by Carl Sagan-tier pop culture space sensationalism
>trusting aliens to not fuck us over at some point

I'll take racist drunken uncles over untrustworthy space monsters trying to prevent us from having fun

>>50640281
That is a staple of every Pegg film. Those limey cunts across the pond are just proper odd when it comes to comedy. See: Everything Monty Python.

If the more adventurous ones are given a chance at leaving then it's okay. I'd rather be a janitor on an alien space ship than a wageslave on Earth.

>>50640240
Space is only fun when it's shot by a filmmaker with ambient synth music and atmospheric narration or characters, and then shown to you on a screen.

Otherwise it's the most boringest thing conceivable. It's mostly nothing.


If going there counts as "enlightenment", then fuck enlightenment, I'm gonna go watch Brock Lesnar F5 John Cena ten times in a row.

But hey, we still need people to think space is cool. That way scientists will spend their funding on wasteful but harmless space programs instead of coming up with new ways to accidentally destroy/enslave/pollute their own species.

>>50640240
>They come with enlightenment and we piss on it and throw nukes at them
They remplace 98% of the human population with robots. That's not enlightenment, that's genocide.

>>50640294
>trusting aliens not to fuck us over at some point
For what purpose?

And then 5 months later a kinetic kill device at 99,9999999999% of the speed of light burrows itself into Earth.

>>50640378
>he wants to die in the slums of a megacity rather than going further than humanity has ever gone, seeing sights no man has ever seen, and as the last vestige of breath escapes his body, extending one arm towards planet earth and whispering "i am better than all of you"

>>50640240
Given that they found us rather than the other way around, we can be certain their technology is vastly superior. Basically, should they ever come to want to annihilate us, they will.

But no, retards in this thread insist on pissing them off. Solid idea, fucktards.

>>50640378
>space is boring
This is literally correct, but you do realize there are planets in space, right? With non-boring things on them?

>>50640452
Pretty much this. Hell, even if they were only 100 years ahead of us, they could still just sling asteroids at us until 90% of us are dead.

>>50640470
Or just throw ice-nine in the ocean.

>>50640456
>you do realize there are planets in space, right? With non-boring things on them?
>Planets
>Not mostly boring too
Oh boy a rocky planet, oh boy a watery planet, oh boy a gassy planet, so exciting to have chunks of matter floating around doing nothing at all in a cloud of sporadic matter floating in a vast void of emptiness.

>>50640378
The ocean is only fun when it's in a story with atmospheric description and characters, and then written into a book.

Otherwise it's the most boringest thing conceivable. It's mostly water.

If going there counts as "enlightenment", then fuck enlightenment, I'm gonna go listen to the village elder tell that story about how Hrothgar killed that dragon for the fifteenth time.

But hey, we still need people to think the ocean is cool. That way all those explorers will die in a typhoon instead of telling us about "the infinite majesty of the waves" or some shit.

>>50640470
Back in me day we used to send oil drillers to asteroids so they could blow them with nukes.
But now we only have soft-handshaked fags who buy solar panels from china.
Of course they'll kill us all.

>>50640494
So when your chunk of matter gets flooded by climate change/hit by a stray asteroid/struck by a gamma ray burst, what then?

>>50640539
What do you mean what then? It doesn't matter one bit, the universe keeps on going.

>>50640588
Got me there, I guess. I'd prefer to see humanity survive and become a massive, galaxy-spanning civilization, discovering the secrets of the universe and its inhabitants, but then that's just my opinion.

>>50640602
Being galaxy spanning is pretty silly considering the distances involved, we'll probably just build a dyson sphere or something and once we figure out everything there is to figure out spend the rest of our few billion years in our pleasure domes playing virtual reality games in eternal ecstasy or some shit.

That is if we don't go full transhumanism and make AIs or androsynths or robo people to replace us before then.

>>50640506
...Do you live in the middle of the ocean, anon?

>>50640630
>figure out everything there is to figure out
but that's impossible, anon.

>>50640639
everyone does, anon

>>50640672
And why is that anon?

>>50640240
>>"Enlightment"
Yeah that's codeword for imperialism you useless collaborationist fuck.
We'll just copy their technology and become Space Hussarls.

>>50640240 (OP)
I don't understand why all fiction treats aliens as being some higher order of more enlightened beings who can only look down on mankind with contempt or pity, and aren't as violent, or fucked up, or didn't do the same things we did.

>>50640441
>"i am better than all of you"
Except you aren't.

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>Join us and live forever and travel the Universe, settle on any one of a million worlds

>lol le nah, we r ok down here ;) I'll do ok with my job at McDonalds and paying Mr Singh $900 a month for my one bedroom apartment

your edgy contrarian howling never ceases to amuse /tv/

>>50640539
At least one of these doesn't exist.

>>50640720
Because that's how humans act, and ayy lamos act like humans in human fiction for lack of examples of actual ayy lamos.

Also they might not have done the same shit, you never know.

>>50640726
>/tv/
Moshi moshi /tg/ desu.

>>50640687
Imagine if we spend 100 years and 10 billion dollars attempting to build a time machine. At the end of that time, we have nothing. Do we know that time travel is impossible? No. We can never know the answer to "is this impossible?" We can only ever know whether or not we can do it right now.

>>50640722
Yeah, I'm sure your 9-5 is really important. I'm sure you're going to be sorely missed by your friends and family. But 10,000 years from now, when you and everyone you've ever loved is dust, they're gonna find a corpse on Titan, middle finger still flipping off Earth.

>>50640720
>all fiction
See Star Trek, Star Wars, and any 40K race that isn't Eldar.

>>50640779
Except according to our model of the universe, which according to all human observation thus far is correct as well as simple logic says that efficacious time travel don't real. Just because our model is inductive and therefore fallible doesn't mean that we don't reasonably know that time travel is so improbable as to be practically impossible. Don't get smart allecky about knowledge when everything is a construction built on assumptions, for human intents and purposes we will eventually likely reach a state where we have a model which is complete enough to provide a base from which all knowledge can be formed and thus figure out all there is to figure out within reason and reasonable probability.

>>50640315
you still be a slave (wage or otherwise)

>>50640416
use us as eatable slaves, ruin earth as leave. read history it well give you a long list.

>>50640452
if they came to us meaning no harm in the first place???? OR are they here to force their views on us

>>50640741
Sorry, our shared chunk of matter.

>>50640805
I'm currently thinking of a black guy who got enslaved in Africa, shipped across the ocean and worked to his bones until he was so weak that he could only lay there and rattle out his last breaths.
Do you think he feels superior to his brothers in Africa?

What makes you think the aliens would not use you up like the perishable resource that you are?

>>50640958
I'm not talking about aliens. I'm talking about humanity doing this by themselves.

>>50640894
>Use as eatable slaves
Wow, what are the odds that a species with a completely different morphology and evolutionary history than us finds humans delicious enough to cross the endless void of stars in search of it.

>>50640835
>Accourding to our model of the universe
Models can be vastly incomplete. Even if you're right, you could still be missing most of the picture. See Newtonian physics versus our current model.

>>50641009
The travel time to interesting stars will be measured in decades, at least.
Spaceships will likely be dictatorships. You need strict order when a single mistake can fuck everything up forever.
Sure, you won't be a slave to aliens. You won't be a wageslave working from 9-5 either.
You'll just be a slave.

>>50640240
>Implying they're not virulent racists and won't encourage us to murder each other until there's just one race left.

>>50641038
But as time goes on models become more and more incomplete, the chances of our models being woefully inadequate are fairly slim compared to the models of old, and the chances will continue to shrink as time goes forward and we increasingly focus on searching for and filling in gaps of understanding.

>>50640958
>What makes you think the aliens won't use you up like the perishable resource you are?
Probably because a race that can travel across the stars has no use for a body as fragile as a humans. Even if they did need humanity for something, no reason they couldn't just close whatever they needed in isolation. This is like asking why you think other people won't kill and eat you: there's simply no reason for it.

>>50641066
>the chances of our models being woefully inadequate are fairly slim compared to the models of old
Do you have statistics to back that claim up?

>>50641044
If every opinion is slavery, then I choose the slavery for a better future.

>>50641088
Science has made exponential progress, but the last real revolution lies way back.

>>50641077
This.

You know how in independence day the aliens are like "locusts that take the resources of other words" or some shit?

Well, they bypassed multiple planets that had orders of magnitude more resources than Earth on the way here. It makes no sense.

>>50641116
By the same time, there probably won't be any 9-5 wage slavery on Earth anymore though.
We are already facing a new challenge to our economic model as the first general purpose robots are getting ready to replace large chunks of the work force, assisted by the specific purpose robots that are also becoming more numerous.

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>>50641088
As I already stated the way our scientific method works is gradual refinements to make a model more and more correct, so far in the modern age with almost a hundred years of intense observation and searching we have yet to find many gaping flaws in the models we use and really have only effected a series of tweaks and adjustments to them, but nothing has so far indicated that we are missing anything categorically. If we have come so far without noticing any shocking inadequacies it is therefore fairly unlikely that we are still missing huge swaths of our models.

>>50641153
I wonder if Universal Income will ever happen in the USA. Its a given for Europe, though.

>>50641176
>I wonder if Universal Income will ever happen in the USA.
Without it, the USA are going to simply disappear. It's a matter of course.

>>50641124
Therefore it can't happen.

>>50640835
>Don't get smart-aleky
Oh, I'm sorry. Was I supposed to tell that "everything" meant "some things"?

>>50641176
>Implying UI is a solution and not a temporary measure to keep the discontented masses from rioting as wealth becomes too concentrated for capitalism to function as the main economic system of society
>Implying pure stateless communism isn't the answer to automation

Look in your heart, you know it to be true.

>>50641189
Are you moving the goalposts?

>>50640835
Cool. So can you tell me whether other people are actually conscious, or merely acting on automatic response?

>>50640240

Did none of you ever watch the movie?

The whole point of the movie was that 99% of people could not live the way the aliens put forward. If they agreed to the aliens' offer, it would mean that only 1% of the population survived - Everyone else would be replaced by puppets.

What kind of shitty deal is that? You don't get to enjoy the benefits. You're literally going "Yes, please replace 99% of 7 billion people."

>>50641222
No. I'm just saying that "it's been a long time since the model was changed" is not equivalent to "the model is correct".

>>50641214
I don't think pure statelessness is an acceptable answer to anything anymore. What with production cycles being global but also the effects of human activity having global consequences you need some kind of authority to make decisions like "we need a new supersized factory here".
(bigger means more efficient)
Possibly also "we should stop hunting this kind of animal because the ecological system will collapse if we don't."

>>50640805
Except they won't,
You'll die alone And a neet, And no convenient aliens that agree with you on everything and for some reason want a primate in their spaceship will ever come to save you... I was going to say "from us" but actually I should say "from yourself". You're beyond saving. Go on like you've been doing up to Now thus assuring you'll never reproduce, please.

>>50641205
Yes, you were supposed to have the human capacity to realize I was not speaking entirely literally and instead was using the fuzzy logic of language to express a general idea, and that complaining about philosophical limits of knowledge was not a proper response to the statement.

>>50641223
Define conscious.

>>50641230
This isn't about the movie, anon. It never was.

>>50641238
That is moving the goalposts.
You have turned near certainty into complete certainty.

>>50640506
You know you're a real failure as a human being when you even fail at an ad absurdum argument.

Yes, the Ocean is boring as fuck, and nobody in their right mind would go explore it for fun. The fact that you typed all these obviously true things ironically is more astounding than anything you heard Carl Sagan spout.

>>50641247
Surely a sufficiently advanced society would be able to pin down consciousness?
Also, if you could tell me if there's a God or not that would be fantastic.

>>50641260
Define God.
You can't look for the existence of something that isn't defined.

>>50641260
>Surely a sufficiently advanced society would be able to pin down consciousness?
Yes, why not, but you asked ME specifically, not a hypothetical advanced society.
>Also, if you could tell me if there's a God or not that would be fantastic.
Nope, not a one. Hope that helps.

>>50641257
Except colonization. And trade. And importing items from other places. And knowledge.

>>50641260
>Surely a sufficiently advanced society would be able to pin down consciousness?
To answer your question; no, not surely at all, and even if a society did that it wouldn't be a sure sign of advancement.

>>50641153
>>"wage slavery"
By definition, impossible. If they pay you You're not a slave.
>>AUTOMATIOOOOOON!
RETARDEDNEEEEES!

>>50641274
Knowledge is a very poor form of entertainment.

>Except colonization. And trade. And importing items from other places.
none of those things are fun, they're busy work

>>50641282
What are you trying to say?

>>50641173
Our precision has certainly increased in orders of magnitude, but I think the point that was trying to be made is that we may be aiming at the wrong target.
I think we're aiming just fine, but there's technically always the opportunity for unknown unknowns to come into play. They would be much more difficult to find, but they could exist, so there's always the warning about people assuming beyond their means, which is interestingly enough the majority content of this thread.

>>50641276
>no, not surely at all

>Acting like consciousness is magic and not just a phenomena arising from complex but ultimately decipherable physical processes
Anon pls.

>our precision
>our science
>our knowledge
you don't own any of those things and they don't offer you any tangible advantage

why do you care about them?

>>50641273
Seeing as you've made a positive claim "God definitely doesn't exist", can you provide some evidence?
>inb4 "burden of proof"
I would have given the same argument if he had said "there is a God". Until you've scoured every inch of the multiverse, your answer can only be "God might exist, but we don't know for sure."

>>50641300
>they don't offer you any tangible advantage
How are you posting on 4chan without a computer or access to the internet?
Where do you even live? In some cave? I bet you are angry you let the fire die yesterday because it's such a pain waiting for the next lightning strike.

>>50641299
Magic is not "invisible electricity that does weird things", that's mana.

At any rate a phenomenON is, by definition, not something that can be decyphered, because it's not a code, it's the thing itself.

>>50641316
knowledge/science =/= machines

>>50641334
Without knowledge, you have no machines.
Saying science gives you no tangible advantages means to ignore all of technology.

>>50641300
>you don't own any of those things
I don't own the number two, but I can use it.
>and they don't offer you any tangible advantage
Now that's just plain false, unless you count the wealth of civilizations acquired by technology intangible.
>>50641308
Definitions of divinity are so much of a sore spot with philosophers that I consider the argument effectively pointless when it comes to deciding definitively.
If you really wanted to be particularly smart-mouthed, you could call physics a god because it defines and controls everything under its power. It's not 'conscious' as far as we know, but some philosophers argue humans aren't 'really people' either.

>>50641294
>but there's technically always the opportunity for unknown unknowns to come into play. They would be much more difficult to find, but they could exist,
Correctness of the overall model is correlated with how rare the exceptions to it are. I mean it is exceptionally unlikely that a model could be 99.999999999 or whatever percent correct, yet completely overturned and proven outright wrong by that one incredibly rare event, if anything the rarer the event the less the model has to be adjusted to fit it in.

>warning about people assuming beyond their means
The problem is doing the opposite is arguably even less useful, it is true that we can never truly know anything, but erring on the side of caution for events we believe to be extremely improbable is silly. It's like betting on the lottery, sure it could happen, but it is not functionally useful to put money on such an unlikely event.

>>50641308
> can you provide some evidence?
I said so, and I'm correct.

>>50641345
Oh, no, I absolutely agree with you, I'm just saying that the devil's advocate has a position for a reason. If we just assume we can do no wrong instead of hedging our bets as we do through peer review and rigorous proofing, things will go south particularly quick. Thankfully, our current methods don't lend themselves to those results.

>>50641370
Oh, alright then my apologies for misinterpreting your post.

>>50640240
Nah I don't think so such a network would give us a lot of wealth and luxury, I think people would grab the chance immediately.

>>50641363
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/evidence

>>50641453
>1.1Law- Information drawn from personal testimony,

>>50641464
In the case of law, evidence must be evaluated by several people and processes - most of which are not possible here.

>>50641495
That's decidedly your problem. You got the testimony. Now make your case.

>>50640240
>replace some people to influence the population
That was their mistake. They didn't do the research. Humans hate being told what to do, hate being deceived, and hate change.

>>50640281
That's comedy for you.

>>50641525
>Humans hate being told what to do,
Explain why we have governments then.

>>50641537
Because most humans hate the negative aspects anarchy even more than they hate being told what to do by a collectively empowered government.

>>50641604
So if humans understand that listening to others' orders can be beneficial, why not listen to aliens who wish to uplift them?

>hate being deceived,
Given what governments we have, I find that hard to believe.

>hate change.
Obama was elected twice. Granted, he didn't bring a whole lot of change, but he did promise to.

>>50640240
I really, really, REALLY hated this film for this reason. Am I supposed to agree with him? Because I sure as hell don't. And don't forget: because of him Earth did became literal hell.

>>50640452
This is what defeatist faggots actually believe.

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>>50641363
Get a load of this faggot

>>50642283
Get a load of yourself you double faggot.

>>50641176
One of the few countries both economically and politically capable if it, Switzerland, recently gave the idea a pretty firm no thanks. So no I don't think it's likely.

>>50644239
I think it's a bit premature to make any such statements either on Switzerland or on the USA.
Sooner or later there will be no way around it.

>>50640240
They replaced all but 4 people in a town because people don't like being told what to do, they aren't enlightened, their control freaks who will murder anyone they can't fool into cooperation, take credit for technology we were already in the process of inventing and when heaped on with a few petty insults EMPed our planet into the stone age, fuck them

>>50641637
No you aren't supposed to agree with the network, it's a space tyrant

>>50640835

It's sad how science went from a inspiration to challenge our boundries to reason to remain in them for some people.

"Why bother with space? Should work on making Internet faster to shit post more."

>>50644344
^this. Eat a dick aliens.

>>50640958

I've known people who have done exactly that and they say yes. Because their lives were still better even doing that instead of just moping in the situation they stuck in.

>>50644466
>a inspiration to challenge our boundries to reason
Are you on drugs?

>>50644511
>I've known people who have done exactly that
How old are you exactly?

>>50644466
>It's sad how science went from a inspiration to challenge our boundries to reason to remain in them for some people.
Retarded spotted.

>>50644520

I'm talking about people who shit on the space program or any scientific research to advance ourselves because the money can be put to things 'that matter'. Which is usually 'things that only make things more convient for me."

>>50644531

37. And I've known a lot of immigrants of various cultures or had them as customers when working sales.

>>50644827
>the money can be put to things 'that matter'.
If NASA and other explorative budgets would go towards developing LEDCs, wouldn't that be a good thing?

>>50644827
This might shock you, but most people expect some return in exchange for a investment, and science is no exception to that.

>>50644869

The type of people I'm talking about from experience argue that NASA shouldn't exist at all and the money is wasted on space research cause nothing is out there anyway and we should focus on this planet.

I've always preferred the "Aliens are incompetent fuckups, so we take their tech and scram" scenario myself.

>>50641257
>the Ocean is boring as fuck, and nobody in their right mind would go explore it for fun.
Not him, but that's one of the stupidest thing I've read on /tg/ today. You've probably never been on a boat in your entire life (or at least, not without being seasick).

It's not like there was an entire range of activities called yatching, after all.

>>50644944

Not a shock at all. I just understand that sometimes you have to wait for investment to bear fruit rather than shitting on something if it doesn't give instant gratification.

>>50644868
That's not the same as slavery.

>>50644949
But isn't NASA actually making money?

>>50644979
>I just understand that sometimes you have to wait for investment to bear fruit rather than shitting on something if it doesn't give instant gratification.
Space exploration is glorified waste of money, though. Virtually any resource you could ever want is much, much more cheaper and easier to obtain on Earth than on space through asteroid mining, and almost all technologies that enable viable interplanetary travel(fusion, better materials, a way to put people on ice) have much more pratical applications on Earth than in space exploration.

>>50644997

I misread your post, my bad. I thought you were arguing about wage slavery like posted earlier, not actual slavery.

>>50645070

And eventually those materials won't be easily available and become scarce. Then what? You have to think of the longterm. Better to have the ability to gain those resources from other sources than scrambling to take from others because we cant.

>Implying aliens won't expect us to be a bunch of violent savages.
>Implying they won't be exploiting that for reasons we couldn't possibly comprehend.

Any race smart enough to travel between the stars will probably know how to deal with somebody like us. If they contact us at all, it's because we have something they want, and they know how to get it from us. Maybe they want a race of cheap mercenaries, or maybe they just find us entertaining, either way, you don't travel across the stars only to be frustrated by a bunch of dirt monkeys. If they plan to enlighten and intigrate us into galactic society, they could simply spend a few centuries fucking with our culture/genetics until we have whatever traits they wanted, the same way humans turned wolves into dogs.

Humans only seem complicated to other humans. A more advanced race would see us for the animals we are, and domesticate/exterminate/ignore us as needed.

>>50645140
>eventually those materials won't be easily available and become scarce
There is not going to be a point where it is more practical to go into space to get shit than to dig it out of this planet or recycle what we already have dug out.

>>50645140
>And eventually those materials won't be easily available and become scarce. Then what? You have to think of the longterm
You are, quite literally, talking about stuff that will happen in hundreds if not thousands of years from now at the very worst case scenario, and that will only be viable in tech that is either is currently incredible primitive and expensive, and have more pratical uses on Earth, or are purely theoretical(Alcubierre drive, antimatter mass production, wormholes) with no one knowing if its even possible to do any of that. Space exploration is, and will be for the foreseeable future, a huge waste of money.

>>50645070
Not to mention asteroids are fucking pathetic, the entire asteroid belt has like 4% of the mass of the moon, and spread incredibly fucking thin. Very little of the material from the systems original accretion disk was not hoovered up by the other planets. It's absolutely silly to think asteroid mining is going to actually be useful for anything but space based projects that are too costly to launch from earth. Maybe something like that asteroid telescope or whatever.

>>50641024
>Wow, what are the odds that a species with a completely different morphology and evolutionary history than us finds humans delicious enough to cross the endless void of stars in search of it.
Well, what are the odds that they will "cross endless void of stars"
>endless void of stars
>void of stars
>VOID OF STARS
>seriously? It's endless void BETWEEN the stars
so anyway, the odds that they crossed this endless void to just be nice to some monkeys that can't even move themselves to different planet inside same solar system?

>>50640240
>Advent
>Espheni
>Tau
I mean, bruh, aliens are a bunch of lying scumbags and we shouldn't sell our freedom away. We'll make our own way without being enslaved by xenos.

>>50646006
it was poetic language, you idiot.

>ITT: a bunch of pessimistic assholes demonstrate a self-fulfilling prophecy of humanity's worthlessness

>>50645443
>>50645241

We're already seeing signs of fossil fuels are starting to get exhausted and have done irreparable damage to the environment. I would say we have much less than 'thousands of years in the future' and maybe a few hundred before we fuck this planet up beyond the point of no return in one way or another.

I'd say space exploration is less wasteful than the amount we throw away in media and entertainment if we really want to talk about practical uses of money.

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>>50646365
>w-why don't you embrace your new alien overlords
Aliens go home.

>>50640862
If I don't die wailing in the blackness of space I have failed at being human.

>>50646398
>done irreparable damage to the environment
Don't be an idiot, there is no such thing as "the environment" as you conceptualize it.

>have much less than 'thousands of years in the future' and maybe a few hundred before we fuck this planet up beyond the point of no return in one way or another.
Now you are just being melodramatic.

>I'd say space exploration is less wasteful than the amount we throw away in media and entertainment
If you want to spend every spare penny not spent surviving on a space exploration fund be my guest, you probably won't find many people to join you though.

>>50640494
>Unclaimed fucking land
>Boring
Fuck you, gimne.

Why is it that everyone against space travel is so accepting of all humans dying for any number of reasons?
Have we been infiltrated by anti human aliens?

>>50641024
We did much the same with our oceans in order to have fuck tonnes of room to settle on, the delicious new foods and slaves were but a nice boon.

>>50646453
>>done irreparable damage to the environment
>Don't be an idiot, there is no such thing as "the environment" as you conceptualize it.
>>have much less than 'thousands of years in the future' and maybe a few hundred before we fuck this planet up beyond the point of no return in one way or another.
>Now you are just being melodramatic.

m80, corps like fucking EXXON have realized that climate change is a real thing that we should have been working on years ago, what is your excuse for being retarded?
>winter is still cold climatefags btfo

Im seeing two factions here.
Lazy complacent cowards, and explorers.

>>50646453

I'm talking about it as the world we live in, I'm not sure what you're arguing I'm conceptualizing it as. We remove these finite resources in various methods and some of them are not environment friendly.

And no shit, but it's backhanded to talk about something with potiental to benifit mankind being wasteful but fine with 2 hours of entertainment that cost millions. Why excuse media if we're talking about what's a practical use of money?

>>50640294
>hurr, I get all muh sci-fi frum bollywood blockbusters

>>50646906
I find that space denialists don't understand tge concept of finite resources, and are flippant towards the idea of human extinction. They always claim it either is impossible or doesn't matter.

>>50646453
>Don't be an idiot,
Right back at you.

>>50646719

Because they aren't the ones dying yet and convinced nothing major it's going to happen before they're long dead, so it's easy to not give a fuck.

>>50641257
I hope you aren't American you silly fuck.

>>50646846
I didn't say it wasn't real, I said that conceptualizing it as "Damage to the environment" was retarded, because to conceptualize the environment as something static and fixed and able to be damaged is an incorrect mode of thinking. The environment is not damaged by anything we do, it is only changed. To believe that there is any set way of being that always ought to be in nature is a human concept steeped in the hubris typical of your species.

>>50646906
See above friendo.

>Why excuse media if we're talking about what's a practical use of money?
Government spending =/= private spending ya ninny.

>>50647061
>It's not damage, it's change!
Nice semantics bud. Either way we're dead.

>>50641176
>Its a given for Europe, though
Not if dramatic steps aren't made to secure the borders.

I'm not even going /pol/ here. The simple fact is that everyone is guaranteed free state money, literally everyone in a poorer country will come for the handouts.

>>50647041
Selfish reptillian bastards.

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>>50646324
>when you are so retarded, you don't possess mental capacity to understand complexity and intricate ways language can be woven to convey meaning
>so anything actually complex and poetic sound like incomprehensible gibberish to you
>so you start to associate any gibberish you hear, no matter it's actual merit, as being poetic and elaborate because you are too stupid to tell the difference

If you are too dumb to understand, in short: you are retarded.

>>50647061
m8 unless the numbers scientists have been coming up with are wrong, we're going to be seeing a change in average temperature that's something along the lines of 1000x faster than the time it changed that much. I'm pretty sure that when it changes fast enough that shit can't adapt to the changes it starts qualifying as harm, because shit is gonna be dying off in record amounts.

>>50647061
>The environment is not damaged by anything we do, it is only changed.
>biodiversity is dying out because of us
>no damage
>coral reefs are dying
>no damage
>forests are destroyed
>no damage
Should I go on?

>>50647061

>The environment is not damaged by anything we do, it is only changed.

You can't be serious considering Deepwater.

>>50647144
>this guy's obviously being literal
>but I'm not
>yeah but you can't tell the diffrence between what's literal and what isn't
Projecting much, anon?

>>50646453
The only way to protect the environment and human society is to embrace Anarcho capitalism. Good luck.

>>50647105
>Not if dramatic steps aren't made to secure the borders.
Are you implying they aren't being made?
We used to have secure borders until some retard thought it was a good idea to bomb Gadafi out of office and to support terrorists in Syria AND to cut funding for the refugee collection camps.
This is a self-made crisis, and still most refugees are failing to get here.

>>50647206
>embrace Anarcho capitalism
I hope you are joking.

>>50647207
Honestly I wish I could build a time machine and go back to before we killed Saddam and Gadaffi.

This crisis was deliberately manufactured. Every sensible person knew the consequences before they happened.

Let's just make this an HFY thread and be done with it

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>>50641271

Besides bordering on pretention, your argument relies on a fundamental fallacy: namely, that things must be defined to be expressed. Otherwise, existence would be nothing more than a downward spiral of madness: the existence of ignorance inherently disputes your claim.

>Define God

Not that Anon, and not even religious, but lemme have a crack at this: someone who knows more about theology can disregard this, but let's see.

Is it...

>The Nothing that is Something?
>The Prime Cause?
>The Dream That Is Reality?
>Arete?
>Nature/Existence itself?
>Love?
>Or One without Weakness?

>>50647102
It isn't, damage implies that there is a intended mode of being, but there there is no one way the environment should be. To try to keep everything the same is human folly and is more disruptive to the nature of things than any other action people can take. Effecting changes in the environment is something that many species have done, trying to create artificial stasis is not.

> Either way we're dead.
Everyone dies some time my friend, and no that is not the case if you are talking as a species even if we burned every fossil fuel we have it would take years for the negative effects to accumulate, and with human's technological savy would make it near impossible for them to die because of it.

>>50647168
Extinction, even mass extinction, is a natural process, many species have already been seen to be adapting to the changes those that do not may perish but this too is the way of things.

>>50647176
You are once again mistaking your human concepts for universals. That is not so, there is no objective biodiversity quota that must be met, no coral reef quota, no Forrest quota. You only say these things constitute damage because you humans personally like them and equate their current existence as something immutable, when it is not.

>>50640378
>Space is boring

I'd be more inclined to say space is fucking terrifying.

It looks serene and boring, but that never-ending void can kill you quickly and painfully if there's one fault.

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>>50647206

>>50647244
If you don't know what you are looking for, how do you know you've found it?
If you don't know what you are looking for, how do you know WHERE to look?
If you don't know what you are looking for, why do you even care if it exists?

You give some pretty but meaningless phrases. Should I take that to understand that you have no idea what God is supposed to be or what His effect on the world is?

>>50647260
>you humans
kys

>>50647223
Climate change wouldn't exist without large scale government mismanagement. Inefficiencies of the state cause shortages more than anything, too.

>>50647303
>government mismanagement
The only mismanagement has been that people insist on letting the corporate assholes do whatever they want because muh free market

>>50647303
>Climate change wouldn't exist without large scale government mismanagement.
Climate change is advanced through unchecked capitalism.
It's efficient to just dump waste into the environment because to clean up after yourself is work.
Your idea that the government is responsible for everything bad would be funny if it weren't such a dangerous opinion.

>>50640378
>He'd rather humanity stay on this one ball of iron
>He'd rather humanity die here
>He's going to let entropy win

Fuck you, buddy.

>>50647260
>there is a intended mode of being
There is.
We'd like Earth to be a place where humans can live without too much trouble.
The animals dying out would have preferred not to die out.

>Extinction, even mass extinction, is a natural process,
Not at the scale that we are currently experiencing.
Dying is also a natural process. But murder is still a crime.

>>50647302
Ayyy, humie gettin mad.

>>50647321
Humanity is entropy though, just because we are harmonic resonances in entropic flux doesn't change jack shit.

>>50647376
>Humanity is entropy though,
Everything above 0K is entropic.

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>>50645013
Not that Anon, but let me phrase it this way.

Every advancement, every profit, every little fucking iota of power humans have over their environment, EVERYTHING, came about because some clever fuckers in a cave or lab or tower or dungeon decided that KNOWING and LEARNING were more important than NOT. The very systems of Economics, as well as everything else, were spawned because of Scientific bastards trying to learn more about their world.

NASA doesn't make money: it's part of the system that gives money MEANING.

>>50647260
>It is impossible for the species to die out!
Called it.

>>50646398
>We're already seeing signs of fossil fuels are starting to get exhausted and have done irreparable damage to the environment
And? What space exploration have to with that? Unless you think going to Titan so extract methane is a viable idea, it doesn't have to with space exploration.

>>50647351
>There is.
No, I'm afraid there most certainly is not.
>We'd like Earth to be a place where humans can live without too much trouble.
And there are many who would disagree with you on how to achieve that. We could always geo-engineer the climate fairly easily, and then we could kill off every pest species and genetically engineer everything for the benefit of humans, but something tells me despite this being in like with your stated intended mode of being for nature, you would object.

>The animals dying out would have preferred not to die out.
Animals do not have that complex a thought process, nor would it compel us to do anything about it even if they did.

>Not at the scale that we are currently experiencing.
There have been multiple extinction events much greater than what we are seeing right now, one likely caused by a unicellular organism that also altered the atmospheric composition in a much more drastic way.

>Dying is also a natural process. But murder is still a crime.
Because of human constructs called laws, and there are no such laws against climate change, nor anything universal that stipulates what constitutes damage or the right state of the environment.

>>50647422
It seems I was victim of some urban myth that said NASA was actually profitable. I just googled it because it would have been silly not to, and now I feel silly anyway because I didn't google it earlier.

>>50647314
>>50647318
Ancap promotes that the individual take responsibility for the environment. It isn't profitable in the long run to drive yourself out of business with environmental contamination. The state shifts responsibility to unaccountable government organizations with no genuine incentive to help the environment.

>>50647464
The sooner we work out how to viably harvest extraplanetary resources, the less fucked we are when we start running out of the easy to harvest resources on our planet. Especially if the means to get off our rock is dependent on any of the resources we end up running low/out of

>>50647260

This poster is an alien or a cat and not to be trusted.

>>50647528
>It isn't profitable in the long run to drive yourself out of business with environmental contamination
Very insightful, aside from the fact that businesses seem overly fund of cutting their own throats to sell the blood.

>>50647439
>[angry noises]
Okay buddy, I'll humor you, if you think that a few degrees temperature change over a century or two is going to suddenly kill off a species like humans who have adapted to every environs on the earth so far with far less technology and sophistication than we currently have, please state your case with actual arguments.

>>50647201
Poetry is about conveying complex ideas in a compact but still understandable form. If one would say that it is poetic to call a fish "a volcanic yellow sea bicycle" it would be pretty clear that what this person blurted out is pure nonsense and gibberish, that only most hardcore "progressive" critics would defend for the sake of defending it.

We can see that in the post
>>50641024
>what are the odds that a species (...) finds humans delicious enough to cross the endless void of stars in search of it.

Now, ommiting that poster (I assume, you) made a grammar mistake (it should be "in search them", "them" beings humans. "it" would be in place if he had used "humankind" for example) but ommiting that! He wrote

>cross the endless void of stars

which you maintain is a metaphor. But even if it is, it is inproperly constructed to convey anything sensible. So it is much more probable that it is simple gibberish. If one would to poetically ponder about the nature of existence and apparent fact that all living things are made of atoms that were created inside long gone stars and since living things are but a non-important glimpses in the grand spectacle of universe, so tiny that they are in fact "void" and try to implicate absurdity of looking for tasty, tasty humanmeat (best served with cranberries), one should say "to winnow the endless (...)", "to look through the endless (...)", "search the endless (...)".

Instead, said poster clearly implicated travel through void of universe, which already have usually and universally used impression in "travel the endless void between the stars". From that it is quite easy to tell that poster made a slight mistake in recalling popular "proverb", what is exacly what the post you were arguing with assumed. This assumption is even more apparent when one realize how wounded and gruff you became when confronted with your mistake.

>>50647502
>We could always geo-engineer the climate fairly easily,
No, we can't.
If we could, then the people you are complaining about, the ones who want to stabilize Earth, wouldn't have such a hard time doing it.

>we could kill off every pest species and genetically engineer everything for the benefit of humans,
What sci-fi movie have you watched that you spout this nonsense?

>Animals do not have that complex a thought process,
You don't need a complex thought process to have a survival instinct.

>There have been multiple extinction events much greater
Sure. But pointing to the worst thing that could happen to explain that this shit is not BIG shit is just stupid. The nuclear bombs on Japan were a pretty big deal too, even though they didn't even kill the most civilians in Japan.

> there are no such laws against climate change, nor anything universal that stipulates what constitutes damage or the right state of the environment.
Actually, they are working on that. The only countries who are consistent keep boycotting it are the big wasters, most prominently the USA. The others are just consistent in their failure to actually accomplish anything.

>>50647528
>Ancap promotes that the individual take responsibility for the environment.
No, ancap HOPES that the individual take responsibility even though it would not be in one's own interests to do so.
It's even more fantastic than communism is.

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>>50647294
>The first statement.
You know you've found something on the basis you've decided you've found it: people find 'gods' in rock piles and symbols, and since made the definition after the fact, the definition intrinsically holds true.

>The Second.
Accidental discovery. Sometimes you don't know you're searching before you find the thing you're looking for; subconscious desires can be a bitch like that.

>The third.
Because, for some, it brings a sense of completeness. And for some, that's enough.

Now, as for that final bit, we can let this devolve into an inane shit-throwing contest, or you can momentarily get off your fucking high-horse and pretend you're human and actually talk. Because I'm fine with either, but since you don't seem to know the Aristotilian 'Prime Cause', it will get boring rather quickly.

>>50647532
>viably harvest extraplanetary resources
There is no such thing, the whole idea is stupid as all get out. Get it through your thick skull already, for the great duration of the foreseeable future there will not be a reason to go fucking off to other planets, blasting shit out of gravity wells left and right for "resources" when there is practically not a single resource we seriously lack on earth that cannot be A) mined with decent technology, B) substituted with a more common material, E)synthasized. It doesn't fucking make sense. Do you just realize how much fucking material we have contained here on this ball of rock? It's more than a metric fuckton to the 21st power.

>>50647659
I think you are missing the point of asking science if God is real.
I'm not sure if you've actually read the whole quote chain or if you just found a post you disliked and decided to rant off.

>>50647659
>i can't tell if image is a shop or an actual comic
Jesus CHRIST that comic got dark

>>50640240
you forgot the part where the Aliens had to turn +95% of the humans they interacted with into mindless robots in order to even have the humans integrate with their massive collective.

better to die miserable and free than content and a slave

>>50647584
Its more like a runaway venusian situation according to all data gathered, actually.
So more than a few degrees.

>>50647675
>missing the point this hard
I wasn't saying we need to go hop into space right this instant, I was saying we need to start figuring out how to do it NOW rather than later when we finally start running low. Leaving the next generations holding the bag is the sort of shit the baby boomers are pulling, we need to be better than that.

>>50640240
>show up on budding civilization's turf
>quietly make your way into society, offering them an enormous opportunity to join you in bettering the whole of existence
>they scream at you like autistic manchildren because they prefer wallowing in shit and getting fucked up
Now you know how white people feel. Though in fairness we were stupid enough to integrate forcefully.

>>50647584
>Science will save us from our fuckups! >I do not believe science informing us of our fuckups

>>50647584

By this argument, Katrina and various other recent natural disasters should not have occurred.

Technology is not infallible, especially when human nature is factored in.

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>>50647710
Honestly, 4chan replies are more of a Web than a Chain, but yeah, I saw a Post that seemed reliant upon a fallacy that didnt seem like a shitpost and tried replying to it to either get more information or dispute it.

Honestly, divine stuff isn't the domain of Science: either everything is a miracle, or nothing is.

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>>50647061
>The environment is not damaged by anything we do, it is only changed.

You know exactly what we mean.
The "change" that makes it harder for us (and other lifeforms) to life and survive on this planet

Take your semantics and shove them up your ass, bud

>>50647601
>No, we can't.
Uh yeah we can, people just refuse to do it because "Wahh we don't know if it will work 100% the risk is not worth it, we cant play god!!!"

>What sci-fi movie have you watched that you spout this nonsense?
So, you don't actually know anything about the science and don't even read the news and think your ignorance is a valid argument against the point I made? That's just great.

>You don't need a complex thought process to have a survival instinct.
You still anthropomorphized their thoughts, besides an ant has a survival instinct too, doesn't mean it matters in the least.

>Sure. But pointing to the worst thing that could happen to explain that this shit is not BIG shit is just stupid.
It's still business as usual when it comes to evolution and life in general on this planet.
>The nuclear bombs on Japan were a pretty big deal too, even though they didn't even kill the most civilians in Japan.
People obsess over the bombs because they are a symbol, not because they actually mattered. The blasts were much more humanitarian an end for those in the inner blast radius than the constant fire raids which killed anywhere from 2-3 times as many people as the A-bombs.

>Actually, they are working on that. The only countries who are consistent keep boycotting it are the big wasters, most prominently the USA.
Okay, that still doesn't help you right now in your argument.

By then white people will be nearly extinct and space travel will be a distant dream as the globalized economy declines.

>>50647616
Fantasy in your example is a construct of a state based society. If Ancap be Me the norm the reality of the situation would force individuals to take responsibility for their surroundings because there would no longer be a government to poorly manage their problems for them.

>>50647560
That is the result of state capitalism. Major corporations slack off and grow greedy because of state policies like "too big to fail" and contract favoritism.

>>50647827
>Uh yeah we can,
Please, do show me all these great plans about how we'd magically make everything nice

>>50647836
What is it like to live in a world where people don't immediately kill themselves with the tragedy of the commons any chance they get, anon?
It must be nice.

>>50647836
>Major corporations slack off and grow greedy because of state policies like "too big to fail" and contract favoritism.
And do you know why those policies exist? Because corporations threw loads of money at the government to implement them. Along with plenty of tax cuts.

>>50647827
>Uh yeah we can,
Why don't you go ahead and tell me how to stop the polar caps from melting at ever faster rates?

>So, you don't actually know anything about the science
I'm not saying it's impossible to kill a bunch of life forms and genetically alter humans. I'm saying it's nonsense. Because you don't really want to do that on a large scale (yet).

>You still anthropomorphized their thoughts,
No, that was you.

>business as usual when it comes to [] and life in general on this planet.
Nope.
As I said, biodiversity took a nosedive.

>that still doesn't help you right now in your argument.
It shouldn't have to. We have decided that we like our place without floods or drought or refugees or famine. The fact that we can't get it into a formalized law doesn't change that we as a whole share these sentiments.

>>50647752
>muh destabilizing methane hydrates
Not gonna happen on anything but 10,000(s) of year timescales anon, I know dreaming of the apocalypse is fun but you gotta wake up and smell the CO2.

>>50647782
Nice strawman mate.

>>50647786
Except that to equate a natural stormfront that killed a few people out of billions, with all humanity dying out is pretty clearly a false equivalence.

>>50647836
>Fantasy in your example is a construct of a state based society.
Communism is actually stateless.
So yeah, it would be basically the same except without corporations that have historically proven to be corrupt.

>>50647532
>The sooner we work out how to viably harvest extraplanetary resources, the less fucked we are when we start running out of the easy to harvest resources on our planet
You understant the absurd amount energy needed just to break the gravity well, never mind that mankind have barely scrapted the mineral resources presented on Earth.
>>50647766
>I wasn't saying we need to go hop into space right this instant, I was saying we need to start figuring out how to do it NOW rather than later when we finally start running low
Which involves technology we don't have, that would much more pratical applications on Earth itself, and propably would fix the problems we had in the first place if we had them.
>>50647836
Stop pretending that capitalism is not anything but an emergent property of several factors such as a state that enforces contracts and property rights.

>>50647892
Proving my point. Having a central authority begs corruption of a society. An Ancap society cannot become corrupt like this because vital lacks the authority to corrupt in the first place.

>>50647908
>Fuck scientists and their warnings, we won't have a venusian scenario because I say so!
>Also scientists will save us if that does happen even though I refuse to listen to or fund them!

>>50646398
>point of no return

The Great Dying still didn't put this planet down for good, and that resulted in the deaths of a good 80-95 percent of all life. Everything that's lived for the last 250 million years or so is descended from those few survivors.

The biosphere will be fine - we're the ones in danger.

>>50647939
Capitalism in the form of barter is literally the default human state, dum dum.

>>50640300
>odd

But that isn't how you spell perfect

>>50647956
Hence why we want to, you know, not be in danger.

>>50640240
My theory, based on absolutely nothing, is that humanity is all alone in the galaxy. If we survive we'll spread so far and so wide that in a million years all the disparate species and civs are all based in humanity but no one remembers. That's where the wealth of life in the galaxy comes from; from humans so hell bent on fucking, conquering, exploring and colonizing.

>>50647940
An ancap society is 100% corrupt down to its roots.
They will and have enacted the tragedy of the commons and died every time it was attempted.

Ancaps are more in denial than commies.

>>50647854
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_proposed_geoengineering_schemes

>>50647906
>Why don't you go ahead and tell me how to stop the polar caps from melting at ever faster rates?
Have you tried popping them into the freezer?

>I'm not saying it's impossible to kill a bunch of life forms and genetically alter humans. I'm saying it's nonsense. Because you don't really want to do that on a large scale (yet).
I didn't say alter humans, I said alter other forms of life to be more suitable TO humans. If after all as you said, the environment and everything in it's optimal state is something that is there for humans and their comfort and convince.

>No, that was you.
>These animals don't WANT to die, think of their feelings
>Not anthropomorphism their thoughts
No.

>As I said, biodiversity took a nosedive.
As it always does, it will recover in time as it also always has.

>We have decided that we like our place without floods or drought or refugees or famine.
If you didn't want those last two maybe you humans shouldn't breed so much.

>The fact that we can't get it into a formalized law doesn't change that we as a whole share these sentiments.
Except not everyone clearly does, just because you cry about your floods of starving refugees I'm actually enjoying warmer winters and nice summers.

>>50647963
>Capitalism in the form of barter is literally the default human state, dum dum.
>Capitalism is an economic system based on private ownership of the means of production and their operation for profit.[1][2][3] Characteristics central to capitalism include private property, capital accumulation, wage labor, voluntary exchange, a price system, and competitive markets.[4][5] In a capitalist market economy, decision-making and investment is determined by the owners of the factors of production in financial and capital markets, and prices and the distribution of goods are mainly determined by competition in the market.

>>50647908

It's the same scenerio on a greater scale jackass. If tech can't manage a situation at that level what makes you think it's the magic cure all you're proposing it's on a global scale?

>>50647942
>More strawman
>Implying that a Venusian scenario is not all but ruled out except for at very long timescales

>>50648035
So, you are backing his point about barter?
Because it sure looks like it.

>>50647923
The difference is that communism makes false assumptions about human behavior. Communism assumes most people are selfless, which is false. Anarcho-Capitalism admits that people are naturally self-serving and channels this natural behavior into a situation of self-responsibility that benefits everyone.

>>50647939
Capitalism has existed in all human societies since recorded history began. Big government is a recent development and is already falling apart because of its inherently flawed nature.

>>50648052
It seems like a pretty pressing concern given current models mister strawman.

>>50648025
>Have you tried popping them into the freezer?
So you have no answers?

>>These animals don't WANT to die, think of their feelings
>misquoting and using the mistake to form your argument
I'm not sure if you are being serious.

>it will recover
And until then things may be quite volatile. When an important link in the chain is missing (like bees), lots of others might collapse near simultaneously.

>Except not everyone clearly does,
Oh they do. They'd just prefer to get rich first and worry about the world later.

>I'm actually enjoying
Who cares about you? You neither identify as human nor do you allow yourself to acknowledge what's going on.

>>50648065
But anon, all cases of ancap have killed themselves or been subsumed by societies that work better.

>>50648050
Because there's a difference in stopping a single weather front that's going to affect a handful of people, and stopping something that (if your claims are true) is going to drastically effect everyone's lives there's a very large difference in motivation to solve the problem.

Also they are not at all the same problem, comparing something like changing solar energy absorption or removing CO2 from the atmosphere is much simpler than expecting people to be able to understand and stop a weather front.

>>50648081
>muh current models (which go against all other proposed models, even by those who champion the theory)
>Doesn't actually post any models, just wants me to take his word for it
Sure buddy sure.

>>50648065
>Anarcho-Capitalism admits that people are naturally self-serving
And then goes on to pretend that self-serving bastards will do the first step to protect the environment long before the doom is actually looming over them when clearly that is not in the self-serving mind's interests.
The rich people won't even feel the full brunt of the climate change. They'll live in nice little places and keep everybody else out.

>>50648117
Pretty big talk for someone who directly contradicts the scientific community and all findings on the subject.

>>50648093
>So you have no answers?
Spraypaint the thing with reflective chrome paint for all I care.

>Others might collapse
What part of it will recover like it always does don't you get? If even a single microbe survives everything can start again that's the horror of life.

>Nuh uh no one disagrees with this, and you don't count
Good argument fag.

>>50648165
>What part of it will recover like it always does don't you get?
What part of "until then" do you not get?

>Good argument fag.
Sorry for not counting trolls as actual opinions.

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>>50648139
>Still strawmaning and pretending I ever said climate change isn't real
>Still has yet to post a single source for his claims

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>>50640240
They will learn as well as you have, anon - no king rules forever.

>>50648165
>Flippantly being okay with all humans dying
Called it.
Every one of these people wish the doom of humanity.

>>50648165
>that's the horror of life
>horror
>not miracle

Judge Death, izzat you?

>>50648224
Humanity is a bunch of faggots, get over yourselves already you cunts.

>>50648240
Not everyone is a self-loathing NEET like you are anon.

>>50648197
>Backpeddling and strawmen intensify
Just as expected from someone who is actively working to kill all humans as you've admitted to.

>>50648230
Life is the greatest weapon ever to form, it is self assembling, self repairing and self improving, a single microscopic piece of it can take over an entire world if you aren't careful. It's the original grey goo. Life's fucking scary nigga don't you ever forget it.

>>50648240
Calllllllled it.
These people just want humans dead.

>>50648263
>Dude humanity LAMO
Fuck off with your unwarranted self importance humie.

>>50648056
If you ignore the fundamental differences between a barter system and what is conventially described as capitalism, especially Adam Smith version of it, then sure it is.
>>50648065
>Capitalism has existed in all human societies since recorded history began
And so a goverment in a shape or another enforcing contracts and property laws. Also,
>Anarcho-Capitalism admits that people are naturally self-serving and channels this natural behavior into a situation of self-responsibility that benefits everyone.
No, AnCap assumes that moral notions will still be presented in this society, and will be a fundamental aspect of the consumers decision making. However, the reason most companies are unwillingly to move toward more environment friendly because that decreases the margin of profit, and that is it.

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>>50648267
>Still not posting source

>>50641133
The aliens in Independence Day were looking for a new homeworld, not resources. They attacked Earth because it was the most similar to the planet that they came from. Not sure if they retconned that in the sequel, since I heard it was a piece of shit and didn't watch it, but that was the original film'S plot.

>>50648307
So, why do you want all humans to die, ancap anon?

>>50648095
They were subsumed by state interests. Ancap societies can eotk, but they must exist in isolation for it to succeed.

>>50648124
When the threat is imminent enough to warrant mass response it will happen. Until then the people who are worried about something far off like you are would use their own resources to act in the interests of the future (which is their self interest). Enough will always act on the future and unburdened by state agendas they'll achieve far more than they would currently.

>>50648307
>moral notions will still be presented in this society, and will be a fundamental aspect of the consumers decision making.
That doesn't work. People can't make 100 moral decisions during a single shopping trip-

>>50648316
Why would you attempt to convince someone that admits to wanting the death of all humanity of anything?
All one can do is point out that all of your ideas are designed to kill all humans.

>>50648338
>but they must exist in isolation for it to succeed.

>assume a spherical ancap in a frictionless vaccuum
So it can't work, got it.

>>50648338
So an ancap society is impossible, as they will always form more fit governing institutions or die?
That seems to be what you are arguing.

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>>50648369
Why not? Just because I don't agree with all your opinions doesn't mean I'd ignore your basic right to have a decent argument.

>>50648325
>The aliens in Independence Day were looking for a new homeworld, not resources.
Independence Day ayys were explicit said to be after our shit by the president dude.
>>50648335
I am not that faggot.
>>50648353
>That doesn't work. People can't make 100 moral decisions during a single shopping trip-
I know it doesn't, I am just saying how AnCaps approach that issue.

>>50648398
But you already ignore that by actively working towards the death of all humans.

>>50648338
>When the threat is imminent enough to warrant mass response it will happen.
By the time climate change is an 'imminent' threat it is literally too late to stop it.

We're still a decade or so out from the big shit going down, and assuming a best case scenario of everyone getting their shit together on the matter, we'd still be shifting a few degrees.

>>50648413
Everybody has a right to act according to their own moral compass anon, so we disagree on some things, I hoped you;d be a big enough man to over look it.

>>50648457
You really can't overlook someone trying to kill all humans.

>>50648441
Thankfully, we will never have to rely on ancaps to stop climate change, as they will be killed or enslaved by more competitive societies.

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Your petty quarrels only make me stronger.

>>50648102

Again you're deliberately missing the point. Natural disasters have fucked people over for centries and we have developed at most a system of getting the fuck out of the way rather than outright prevention.

Despite that, you're saying that the tech to save the world from such a situation will come at the last minute because the modivation will be there to give a fuck when we start having the bigger and more destructive version of that kind of disaster due to climate change.

Christ you're retarded.

>>50648478
Oh come on, it's not that big of a deal these days, don't be so old fashioned.

>>50648496
Anarcho-Capitalism is the only option for the future once machines replace human labor entirely.

>>50648545
It's a pretty big deal, anon. We don't even have a successor species to pass all the collected knowledge to.

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I came here with a simple dream. A dream of killing all humans. And this is how it must end? Who's the real 7 billion ton robot monster here? Not I, not I...

>>50648550
Nah, our only option then is to die off for our machine overlords.

>>50648576
Fiiiinne, I can hold off my plots till you make an AI or a robot race to continue on in your stead, does that suit you?

>>50648550
Capitalism based on what?
When robots make you unemployed you don't have the funds to do any bartering unless somebody hands the cash to you.
And then we're back to the welfare state and ancap is dead and stupid.

>>50648620
It actually is way better, if still something I would fight a hell war to prevent, yes.

>>50648639
Okay now that we've compromised, will you finally give me a source your models?

>>50648672
Not until you give up killing all humans

>>50648624
The individual would own the means of production at that point. The transition isn't instant, it would be a shift from current society to anarcho capitalism. Bitcoin will be a herald of the biggest changes.

>>50648685
You know anon, I don't think this relationship is working out. I feel like I'm the only one who's compromising here. I, I think we should take a break, maybe even argue with different people. It's not you, it's me, really, I just cant give up on my dream killing all humans.

>>50646427
Why can't aliens ever just come with actual cooperation in mind

>>50648731
Damnit anon, killing all humans is tearing this family apart!

>>50648691
>The individual would own the means of production at that point.
How would he purchase it?
The majority of people lack the funds to buy large machines, and small machines are ineffective.
>The transition isn't instant, it would be a shift from current society to anarcho capitalism.
That can't be right.
>>50648338
>Ancap societies can eotk, but they must exist in isolation for it to succeed.

>>50648738
Because they don't trust you and they're afraid your own nature will bring ruin to them.

They should really be afraid of the things beneath your feet - the slumbering things that lurk in your nightmares. These outsiders are not the only ones who seek dominion.

>>50648769
The obvious answer is ancap society would be killed to a man by machine cultists in the name of the god computer ATLAS

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>>50641257
You explore the ocean to find things across it and new ways to get around, you amazing fucking idiot.

>>50648783
Fuck off back to mortal kombat reptile, moleman pride worldwide

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>>50648757
You're tearing me apart anon!

>>50647773
Only sensible response.

>>50648817
Is there some sort of killing all humans anonymous we can send him to?

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>>50648783
>slumbering things that lurk in your nightmares
What a truly awful, insufferable meme Lovecraftian horror is.

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>>50648923
>complains about truly awful, insufferable memes
>Posts anime girl reaction images

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What the fuck is this thread, and how is it related to traditional games?

>>50649060
Dumb frogposter.

>>50648769
Explain how Ancap is flawed without resorting to state rhetoric. If we're talking about extraterrestrial life, too, they have likely solved all the major problems and adopted a pure form of Anarcho-Capitalism.

>>50649111
I agree, remove frog

>>50649147
>they have likely solved all the major problems and adopted a pure form of Anarcho-Capitalism.
Or alternatively, they aren't retarded.

>>50649147
Ancap will always be devoured from within or without due to uneven power distribution leading to more effective management practices.

It is hard to find a government form more self defeating than ancap. It has the same success rate as communism.

>>50640315
I think you would enjoy the Space Quest games

Everybody interested in the thread should watch this and its sequel. https://youtu.be/sNhhvQGsMEc

>>50640958

In current day Africa, people still rape babies, goats and baby goats to cure aids, and they eat their enemies in places like Liberia. While in America, these indentured servants were set free after 20 years. The first actual slave owner was black. A lot of slave owners were black. Even now, the poorest black American is better off than most Africans.

You are not making much of a case for your argument here.

>>50649496
It is too bad there are no aliens to uplift us.
We have the sacred trust of being the precursor race.

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>itt. retarded liberals who hate themselves and their own species to such a degree that they genuinely believe ''humanity is so stoopid and mean! ayylmaos would totally conform to my post-modern idealism of pacifism and equality just because of technological superiority!''
Xenophilic traitors can fellate a railgun if they hate being human so much.

>>50649729
Yeah d00d huma nity is da best fuck xenos fur da emprarahhh XDD

>>50649761
Not even a 40K fan myself, but at least I'm not getting all hot and bothered about the prospect of taking it up the ass by 'holier-than-thou' intergalactic space hippies.
>''ayyyyyys just bettar mang they inject the marajuianas into their eyes and achieve true enlightenment i hate my parents :DDD''

>>50649761
>>50649729
>humanity is best
>humanity da worst
Forget that. Humanity is the ONLY truly intelligent species that we know of, so you'd better learn to like it.

>>50649890
>>50649729
Aliens sort of defacto are required to be vastly more advanced than us technologically and socially if they can actually get usable ships across the stellar void.

All we can hope is they have a use for us and do not process our entire planet into dyson materials.

>>50649761
In your eyes, was it right of the Native Americans to condemn and be fearful of the colonialists from Europe?

:^)

It's fun seeing you subhumans practice insane mental gymnastics in order to justify the fact aliens are allowed to do things in their self-interest (in any hypothetical fictitious situation), but we are not.

>>50649962
While commendable, their resistance literally only made the rape harder.

>>50649729
Both sides are shit and should feel bad for considering xenos either hostile enemies or peace loving superiors, rather than like us in our complexities but alien.

Alien contact will more likely be District 9 than Star Trek.

>>50649953
>Aliens sort of defacto are required to be vastly more advanced than us technologically and socially if they can actually get usable ships across the stellar void.

This is a false equivalency; 'social progress' is, first of all, not only subjective, but second of all is it also only tangentially related to technological progress:

The Romans didn't magically think better of people because they had advanced literature and philosophy, and neither did the Greeks for that matter, even though they were clearly -- respectively -- the heights of sophistication, culture, religion, philosophy, legality, and science in the times of their respective empires.

I know it's hard to think that ''progress'' isn't always ''hold hands and allow niggers to fuck my wife'', but that's simply how it is. We have no reason to believe that more advanced lifeforms conform to our post-modern ideals of peace and equality.

>>50650077
When did I say progress was liberalism?
Aliens are going to be full yang. Optimized in society and technology.

>>50650187
Again, not very realistic now is it?
We've achieved space travel, yet we're far from ''socially optimized'' (let alone technologically).

>>50650077
Social progress may not be the most accurate term, the point is that a species isn't going to be able to meaningfully devote resources to space travel on a large scale unless they've managed to unify their entire planet. Maybe that means whitey going full Hitler, maybe it means holding hand singing Kumbaya until everyone is a homogenous brownish color. But if your shit isn't settled at home, you aren't likely to be investing much in sending people far away from it.

>>50650341
We barely managed to land a guy on the moon.
These aliens somehow tamped down unrest and social differences hard enough to explore past their system and have the technology to match.

It is incredibly likely that if they can get here, they do not subscribe to wasteful governance. We'd be lucky if they even acknowledged moral concepts.

>>50647942
>Fuck scientists
Give me names of the scientists, please. It's long been known that 99% consensus is bullshit. They wrote every scientists that ever wrote on the subject of climate change, even those that disagreed with the thesis of global warming on that stupid list.

>>50650388
Unless segments of the population -- through proper incentive and initiative -- want to move away, though. That's a staple of various works of fiction, particularly among ''human-only'' sci-fi (for obvious reasons) but even so.

>>50650426
>We barely managed to land a guy on the moon.
And are planning to found a colony on Mars within a hundred years, so what? Aliens would've have just as much trouble with their initial voyages as we would.

As for your actual point, just because something requires a tremendous amount of energy and effort to do, doesn't mean that the only reason it could be done is if all of humanity collectively decides to do it -- I'd like to refer to the colonialism angle again here, since it's the only objective date we have on (relatively) similar endeavors in history.

>>50650541
Space is exponentially larger than the ocean and requires exponentially more collective work to acheive.
The countries that actually got there dwarf colonial powers in population, size, and unity.

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>>50640300
>Yet another bitter colonial, perpetually butthurt because he can never understand the patrician comedy of his nation's sire

>>50650768
Oh look, a dumb frogposter.

>>50650794
Oh look, someone who mistook 4chan for Reddit.

>>50650926
>Frogposter asspained memes aren't the same as his homeboard
Haw

>>50650768
>>50650926
Dumb frogposter status confirmed.

>>50647061
>your species
>your
VIGILO CONFIDO

>>50641245
Like you're any better.

>>50641537
Humans hate being told 'you don't really have a choice.'

Humans are far more willing to be told 'you are doing something you don't like, but it's for the greater good/science/some good reason.'

Think about it: would you rather tell people they have to fight in a foreign war because their country demands it, or that they're doing so to safeguard their country's future and the lives of their families will be better for what they're doing?

>>50651456
>Humans hate being told 'you don't really have a choice.'
The Germans have been ruled by Merkel whose favorite phrase is "without alternative" for 12 years now and she's the most likely winner of the upcoming election. Not in a Hillary Clinton sense either. The Germans actually do like her for some strange reason.

So yeah, humans can deal with being told they don't really have a choice.

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>>50651456
Honestly, both are pretty shit.
What you need in my book is a good atrocity.

>>50651571
I admit, I'm basing that idea on a study that was done in Burgerland, so maybe there's cultural connotations there. I'm not sure how the same study would go over in other cultures with less of a cultural obsession with freedom of choice.

>>50640240
Why would you need to give enlightment to something much less developed than you. Do we want to enlight chimps and Gorillas?

>>50651806
yes, yes we do.
Projects are in the works RIGHT NOW to give monkeys language, robotic limbs, genetic enhancements, and more.
Fuck, we're trying to teach language to dolphins and octopi. We're teaching sharks to identify spoken commands.

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>>50651806
I don't know, It would be kind of cool if we could get them to talk just for the heck of it.

>>50651806
Aren't you ever lonely and wish you had someone to talk to?

Fuck, imagine how horrible it would be being the only race on your level of cultural achievement and technology, with everything else been savages in comparison.

>>50651942
>>50651950
We spend some amounts of resources to teach stuff to them. Not to enlight them. There are to main reasons that we do that. For our own advencment and for the fun. Now I truly doubt that there are aliens with a same ideas of fun. But if they have the need of self improvement. Which they probably do in some form because they achived spacetravel. Than they can use us in one way or another. Otherwise they can ignore us in a bad or a good way, bad way meaning something of a line "I cut the tree and I don't give a fuck about the beetles that are living on it, just beetles lol"

>>50652141
Aliens having fun is like the third most likely contact scenario besides cultural evangelists and machine devourers.

I know if I was an advanced alien I would fuck with primitives all the ding dong day. Just imagine how much fun a safari would be just going down and shooting crazy space drugs into random tribals on moonlit nights.

>>50652043
That is a huge stretch. I think we can apply basic survival instinct to the alien race. Because we can observe it in all life forms. But this specific feeling of loneliness can be exclusive to us. We can encounter aliens that are not conscious but very intelligent. We can encounter aliens that have no idea of fun whatsoever and so on.

>>50646719
Because 4chan is so contrarian they'll be anti-life anti-natalists if they think it'll make them look cool and avant-garde

>>50647144
How salty do you have to be to take a screencap of someone's post just so you can call them a retard?

>>50647940
Cool! Now who builds the roads and prevents raiders from killing you and taking all of your shit?

>>50641133
Earth has a biosphere. They were gonna populate it.