/STG/ Star Trek General

So, I know, I know. NuTrek doesn't measure up. At all.

But of the people who DID see Beyond, did anybody seriously not like Jaylah or IIIIII CAN'T STAND IT...

>>50636329

Generations does have all the makings of a good story, but I can't forgive them for killing Kirk on a literal bridge, and I can't forgive them for making Picard a dunce, or for making Data a stupid fuckwit with the emotion chip.

The best solution, was to go back in time before Soren betrayed Geordi and Data. Picard could have ordered more security... and if necessary, used Kirk as his ace in the hole.

>going back in time to stop the Borg from destroying the El Aurian homeworld, and Picard and Kirk meeting that way

I'd watch it. But yeah, it would invalidate First Contact. But, I'm also in the minority in that I don't like any of the TNG movies. I wish I did.

>>50636602

It happens. The Combs is fantastic.

>>50638371
I've occasionally thought about how to fix Generations... problem is surface alterations like that or say, putting the klingons in a proper cruiser so they have a real fight, having Kirk ram the stardrive section into them so the saucer can escape, all that just doesn't fix the underlying problems of the story.

The themes are good, the characters decent enough, the execution... Well it's not surprising it turned out this way given how long it took to put together. Too much was lost in script edits, re-writes and revisions over and over, so the filmed results couldn't even be fixed in editing (and in some cases harmed by it, removing scenes that would have explained more).

It could be polished, which might take it up from mediocre to passable, but Generations is too flawed a film to 'fix' without a complete do-over.

>>50638846
Well considering they were told to write the story as they were writing the last season, and go straight into preproduction after filming of TNG had wrapped, I'm not surprised.

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>>50638846
>>50638904

Moreover, they'd never helmed a feature film before, so that didn't help.

I wish that time, talent, and passion could have come together to give us all a great TNG film. Instead, well, the Enterprise-D is destroyed by a 20 year decommissioned bird of prey in the hands of a rogue klingon house, and then the saucer section is crashed by someone who should never have been allowed at the helm, an action which undermines said someone's character even further than TNG already had.

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As promised in previous threads, more screenshots of the TOS themed ships.

Take of the thread anons, for now I seek the sweet oblivion of sleep.

>>50639090
The way I see it, ultimately, the issue is that TNG's characterization and development just wasn't suited to a film, not the same way TOS had been. It's not as if I dislike the TNG crew, but they're far less like the sort of companions the original crew was and, thus, unlikely to be the good basis for a movie when they don't have the normal conventions of the series to fall back on.

The DS9 team, though...if they'd given THEM movies, that shit would have been gold, I think.

>>50639090
>>50638172
Is this from Star Trek Online?

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>>50639729

Agreed. There's also the fact that non-action sci-fi movies don't generally do well. So, Star Trek action movies are what gets made.

This isn't to say action is bad - Star Trek II is both one of the smartest and actiony of the Trek movies, as is Star Trek VI.

The issue is that the TNG cast is ill-suited to that sort of thing. They were always the ones trying to find a better way, and none of the case was as tightly connected as Kirk, Spock, and Bones.

>DS9 movies

I can only hope they would have been good. But, I kind of think it's better that it ended and while maybe the ending wasn't everything we wanted, at least the series didn't go out with a whimper.

>>50639856

Most certainly.

Sleep for reals now.

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Anything new with the USS Ark Royal and Dave Innatubes?

>>50641216
Just what's on the 1d4chan page, I think.

>>50641216
>>50641366

I meant to do some work on the page and I promised in an earlier thread to do so.

Then work started to get busy. It is still busy.

I have not forgotten. As soon as I have some time I will do so.

>>50639856
So is almost every image in these threads, go lurkmoar

what do you guys think of the original pitch of "In the Pale Moonlight"

in it jake would have discovered sisko and garak's devilish tactics in bringing the romulans into the war against the dominion and driven a wedge between them

>>50641738
I think having a character there just for sake of pointing out that what hey were doing was morally bankrupt would have lessened the experience. Sisko knows well that what he's doing is fucked up. He essentially spends the entire episode rationalising so that he can live with himself. We don't need it spelled out because what really makes the performance excellent is the fact that Sisko is so uncomfortable with it. He can't bring himself to say that it's explicitly wrong until the very end, when he has convinced himself that the ends justify the means.

Nor do we need someone to instigate conflict between Garak and Sisko, because it's inevitable. Sisko gets used by Garak. He doesn't see the real game until Garak has already finished it. He was just a pawn, like the Senator, like the blue fish-fuck guy. And that's the point that breaks him, as an officer, as a man. I think that any attempt to have Jake as the voice of morality would have been ham-fisted. Something along the lines of him saying "I'm dissapointed in you, dad".


Also
>Jake
>playing a significant role in a storyline
Pretty much the only thing i hate more than the "allemoraine" people is a Jake-centric storyline. That boy is just insufferable.

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So what was the worst executed races from concepts that were ok on paper but horrible when done. We already went over the Pakled race. What are the other races that /stg/ think were done awfully?
>>50641738
To be honest, Jake was such a little pussy of a character in DS9, it's sad that Nog as a character grew so much by the end of the show while Jake didn't.

>>50641883
Nog - His dad was a waiter that became the septic tank repair dude of the station and was even discouraged from going to school. Went on to join the academy, passed with good grades, became a war hero and become a Starfleet captain.

Jake - Father was a Starfleet captain, ship designer and religious icon. Encouraged to go to school, given every break, wasted every opportunity, pussied out of every fight and did nothing with his life.

I don't care if he's barely more than 4 foot tall. If shit gets real I would rather have the big eared midget by my side because he is fucking badass.

>>50641883
the "Alamarain" people
>on paper
A race that is obsessed with games and have developed impressive, frightening technology for the sole purpose of having a good time.
>on screen
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IMBUa7w9K4

This one will be a little bit more controversial but...

The Bajorans.
>on paper
A once prosperous, unified, space faring species, reduced to refugees, terrorists and slaves. Their homeworld raped and pillaged, their gods debased, their history forgotten, their people abused in any and every way the Cardassians could think of. Even now, after their liberation, they are a broken and scattered people. How can they ever be what they once were? How can they move past the most horrific moment in their history? Can they ever be unified like they were? Bajor is now one of the most important worlds in the quadrant. All of this should move things to a breaking point where the Bajorans will either come together and heal or turn on themselves and devolve into chaos.
>on screen
REMEMBER THE 15 GORILLION! GIVE REPARATIONS TO MY FARM OR ELSE!

The Kazon
>on paper
A nomadic, confrontational people. The Kazon lay claim to a vast area of space. Dozens of species fear them as raiders. But they spend most of their time fighting each other for spurious reasons.
>on screen
Shit, discount Klingons

>>50642020
i didnt get a "bootleg klingon" feel from the kazon at all

they just seemed like generic angry space tribals

and i agree i fucking hate the bajorans s1 of ds9 was the most fucking boring shit ever thanks to them

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>>50641883
To be perfectly honest, humans really are incredibly shallowly developed in this show. It kind of makes me ill every time they avoid talking about personal belief. It almost seems like a society wide taboo or something. Like if you say you believe in something beyond what you can see or touch, then every other human will look at you if you're crazy. It is really very annoying. Having faith in something is not a weakness, it's a strength. I think Jake was possibly unintended example of this. He didn't really believe in anything so was kind of an aimless character. He had no overwhelming drive in anything even his writing since he had lived such a sheltered life even if he had a lot of tragic events in it. He just seemed as character not to be able to process it really. I don't think Jake ever really confronted the trauma and lost, he just held it in.

>>50643004
The humans in that show are more evolved than you, hence believing in magic is frowned on.

>>50643040
Then why aren't we educating the less evolved creatures like the Bajorans who still cling to their cave man superstitions?

>>50643040
Which is even more retarded than you make it sound considering that magic is proven to exist and extensively documented in the Star Trek universe.

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>>50643054
>Then why aren't we educating the less evolved creatures like the Bajorans who still cling to their cave man superstitions?
Because since the Prophets are real, the Fed are afraid to piss them off and to actually be wrong about their gods not existing. Because the Bajoran gods could slap your shit hard if you're a prick which Star Fleet does tend to be a times.
OH BTW Q IS GOD! ALL FED ATHEISTS BTFO! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
That was a great episode, too bad Picard is too thick to get the point.
>>50643040
>The humans in that show are more evolved than you, hence believing in magic is frowned on.
Then Q shows up and literally does magic tricks in front of you.

>>50643151
Look, if Kirk was able to beat a bunch of demi-gods and klingons were able to kill a god with their disruptors, what sorta chances do you think a bunch of worm hole inhabiting beings have against people who can either invert tachyon energy flow and reverse the polarity of tetryon molecules to destroy the wormhole or a bunch of warriors who would and could punch gods out of existence?

>>50643176
Because no god in classical mythology has ever died.

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>>50643176
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
Well, even demigods can be idiots but if they true god like beings that didn't need equip, to control little kids, or a rage god that needed to troll people to get his power. If those situations don't apply then I DON'T CARE IF YOU'RE KIRK YOU ARE FUCKED! Q or anyone around even half his power level would rekt everybody's shit in Trek without trying.

>>50643265
>Because no god in classical mythology has ever died.

What is Balder.
What is Dionysis.
What is Quetzalcoatl.
What is Jesus.
What is Osiris.

>>50643583
That was kind of my point.

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>>50643611
Yes, but a lot of those bastards that do die come back from the dead, too. Which is not something even the bastards in Trek can do all the time with a few exceptions, of course. How would you even put up a fight to something like a Q? If a TNG or TOS race just had all their tech turned off what could they do?

>>50643907
Depends which race and what bullshit magic they have.

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I downloaded this from a sci-fi art thread, and it made me wonder who or what is Boucher? I couldn't find it in the wiki and Google keeps giving me someone else's page. Can you help me out?

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Am I the only on e that really likes how the Kelvin constitution class looks with the reman prototype shield?

>>50644214
Looks pretty badass. If you could put an enormous glowing green skull and crossbones on the saucer section it would be perfect.

>>50644183
A character created by the artist:
http://www.deviantart.com/art/OSB-Advent-Suits-130139430

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>>50644214
No offense but that makes it look like your ship switched out it's engines for two 'planet killers'. I don't know if that was the look you were going for but that's what I think anyway. Imho it looks a little weird but I was never a fan of JJtrek.

>>50644396
Ha, I can switch the blue nacelle coloring for orange and really complete the look.

>>50644396
>Tier 7 ships get introduced
>All of them come with nacellas that are actually small sized planet killers
>Each ship comes with a special ability "Dual pure antiproton beam barrage"

>>50644354
Thanks. I know it's a fursona (what's the equivalent with scalies?), but I would still like to see more actual alien looking creatures in Star Trek. Too bad we didn't get another animated series.

>>50644214
Can you combine the Reman Shields with the Breen Engines?

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>>50644487
>TFW you become the EDF from season 2 of Space Battleship Yamato.

>>50644630
Wasn't that ship called Andromeda?
Or was it just one of those "we change a name for no reason in English dub" sorta things?

>>50644622
You mean so it would have the frost warp trail effect?

>>50644665
Maybe they changed it. I can see the American censorship authority (whatever the fuck they're called) getting pissy with the ship being called the Yamato. Much for the same reason they wouldn't greenlight a project about a space battleship Bismark or Graf Spee.

>>50644764
precisely.

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>>50641941
>Jake - Father was a Starfleet captain, ship designer and religious icon. Encouraged to go to school, given every break, wasted every opportunity, pussied out of every fight and did nothing with his life.

The more I think about it, the more I realise I like Jake as a character, if not as a person. Because as a person Jake is kinda an asshole. But in a very typical young person way. I'm glad he's there. He was the first prominent, reoccurring human kid in star trek to NOT want to join star fleet. And it was a good choice, because he was clearly unsuited for it. I like that he turned out to be a coward, and that he admitted as much. I like that he made bad decisions because of his lack of experience and forethought, like staying behind when DS9 was abandoned.

He was fallible, not hugely skilled like every main character ever, not lacking in smarts but certainly lacking in wisdom. He grew over time, and not just vertically, going from being the captain's kid into being his own man.

And that's a great character to add some grounding to the ensemble.

>>50644824
hm, I guess Ill need to get that engine and find out.

>>50645049
So I'm guessing Jake was more of the typical kid who grows up in the UFP. Like the 99.9% of the citizens of the UFP who don't want to join Star Fleet. And why should he, he's well off and naïve. There is so much else to do in the settling besides Star Fleet but they really never got into that. How the heck are you supposed to make a living as a Fed citizen? What do you do to fill the hours of the day if you don't have to work? What's the point then?

>>50643004

There's likely a real world reason for this. It's less controversial that the Federation is full of wishy washy non-believers than it is to have believers, some of whom may be extremists.

If you write a religious character well, they're can be a complex and nuanced person - if you write them badly, they're an offensive stereotype that perpetuates the worst kinds of misinformation about a particular group.

There's also a strong influence from Gene, an admitted atheist who had some rather bizarre political, ideological, ethical, and personal beliefs.

I personally am an atheist, but I too think it's unrealistic to think every human in the Federation would be too. TV execs don't like getting lambasted in the media about being racist, sexist, homophobic, or some other flavor of supposed hate. It tends to lose them money, so if the Fed humans being atheist doesn't bother anyone, there's no reason to change it.

>>50643004
Injuns get to have culture and religion and stuff. Just one for all Indians, but it's something.

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>>50645641
It's kind of funny you say that when the show was based on being just that 'controversial' and not being a benign sci-fi show. It was supposed to push the envelop with statements of human nature and their biases. That you can't have like one human say they believe in something greater than themselves that's not tangible without being looked at as crazy. Is the height of cowardice in a supposed enlightened settling. So you step on a few toes that at least means someone is paying attention. I hate that the only time that this was done was native American episode that was Wesley centric that I could have done without.

>>50645049
Better than how Wesley turned out, who, dropped out of Starfleet and then emoed around the ship pissing off everyone until he found out he was space Jesus and literally walked off the set.

Either that or he got tricked by a creepy alien and assraped in the back of his space van until Nemesis.

>>50646267
I think we all know which happened.

Even creepy aliens have assraep standards

>>50646106

I agree that Trek was originally about pusing the envelope, but there was also the problem of Gene using it as a platform for his ideas, some of which were thankfully abandoned.

Trek changed over the years, though. Look how safe they played VOY and ENT.

The execs were afraid of losing viewers (and thus money), and they managed to lose them because Trek wasn't doing anything interesting.

>wesley

Another of Gene's creations which should have been aborted.

Oddly enough that was a Ron Moore story, I guess he later transferred the idea of a young human not wanting to be in starfleet over to Jake Sisko, where it made far, far more sense than with a character we'd seen learning to be an officer since season 2 of TNG.

>>50645155
I think you get it from the last or second-last mission in the Breen arc.

>>50646370
>I agree that Trek was originally about pusing the envelope
This meme needs to end. It was a western in the guise of a sci-fi show. It was meant for Gene to feel like a writer, and make him a rich man. It didn't generally pull its punches when the story called for something that might be controversial, but it wasn't about being controversial either.

>>50642020
>The Kazon - shit, discount Klingons
No, not even close - the looked and acted like space gypsies.

>>50643129
>>50643151
Are you two stupid or something? Just because the technology at someone's disposal is so advanced that it looks like magic that doesn't means that it's powered by magic.

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>>50647073

On its initial conception, certainly, it was just a Western in sci-fi clothes. But it became more than that, occasionally by accident, sometimes on purpose. And it wasn't really Gene who pushed the envelope, aside from using it as a soapbox for his strange notions. Gene allowed that myth to propagate because it made him look good, but it doesn't change the fact that Trek did in fact push the envelope of what was acceptable on TV by the audience and the networks themselves.

In case you've forgotten, it was the networks who didn't like the idea of a woman in the chain of command, and that's why there's no female first officer after "The Cage". Still doesn't change the fact that there was one initially.

We think of it as no big deal now, but a black woman on the bridge of a starship (and holding an officers rank, no less!) was unheard of when Trek initially aired. Yes, we look back now and sneer at how she was a glorified telephone operator, but she would have been cast as a maid or cleaning lady in any other show of the time.

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>>50647371

More than that, I'll happily be proven wrong if you can point me to a late 60s TV show or movie where a black man is presented as a scientist in the top of his field (that isn't The Twilight Zone).

The "Ultimate Computer" introduced us to Dr. Daystrom, a man and computer scientist who had revolutionized the Federation's computer technology. The Daystrom Institute, that gets mentioned in other Trek series is named after the character.

And who played Dr. Daystrum? William Marshall.

>http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0551234/?ref_=ttfc_fc_cl_t4

>>50647289
And then there's Q and that dude in the sparkling nightie in the Kirk Fights a Gorn episode and the Organians there are others but those were the ones that jumped to mind first.

>>50641707

Calm down. We don't win players to /tg/ by being assholes.

We be assholes in game and make it /tg/ storytime.

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>>50647289
Look Q is literally powered by how awesome he is, when the fucker can bent reality with a thought. IT MIGHT AS WELL BE MAGIC! Since it seems to uncountable by anything less than another Q. Guys like that don't need tech they are pure power in themselves. They just will for stuff to happen and it will happen.

>>50649520
Also, meanwhile, in-game he is literally sitting IN his chair.

>>50647371
>In case you've forgotten, it was the networks who didn't like the idea of a woman in the chain of command, and that's why there's no female first officer after "The Cage".
Also a myth, perpetuated by Roddenberry. They didn't want Gene's no-talent mistress as a lead, so they made sure that she couldn't be one. It was fine that she had a bit part (and she later grew as an actress), but being a lead was too much.

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>>50650853
Probably hiding so his dumbass kid can't find him

>>50647371
>glorified telephone operator
>implying that we don't still have dedicated communications people even with modern tech

>>50651278
I do still like his story, though. "They told me to lose the woman and the Satanic looking fellow, so I married Majel and kept Spock since I didn't think Leonard would let me do it the other way."

>>50651278

And yet, there's no female officers wearing pants after the second pilot (not that I'm complaining too much, mind). It's just something one notices.

>>50652224

I'm implying nothing. Various people have made the (rather obtuse) claim that Uhura's job was unimportant, or that she was just "Kirk's secretary", rather than in charge of the ship's vital communications link to allies, friends, the chain of command, and help of any kind.

>>50652461
I'm not saying SHE wasn't, I'm saying that it is technically a legitimate job.

>>50652586

They didn't give the character Uhura much to do, and she doesn't get more than a few interactions with the crew, and not a lot of time in away missions either.

I don't know if that was a necessary evil of the format (TOS was never meant to be aired in sequence, the network basically just wanted to chop it up it and air it whenever and in whatever order), or just that they didn't know what to do with Uhura (or any of the minor characters).

But I wouldn't personally call her useless. I'm more irritated at the contemporary critics who give zero actual thought to what Uhura's job would entail.

>>50641877
There was one good Jake episode in the series, the one where Sisko gets hit by the warp lightning and kept getting pulled through time. Though to be fair it was a different actor playing Jake in most of that episode.

I think its possible that the writers did want to do more with the Jake character. But the kid actor they got just didn't have the acting abilities to do them. So the character stayed kind of stale though out the series.

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>>50646556
Well I was hoping that the frost trail came from the nacelles, but it looks interesting how it is.

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>>50599401
>>50599573

What the fuck am I reading and why isn't this a thing yet?

>>50656485
That does look very well

>>50658193
>TFW Trek is now New new BSG with a more Nomads, the Nonconformists guys from the Infinity game vibe.
That could work but the UFP would be totally against it since it makes a mockery of what they think is enlighten behavior. They would be like those 'Gathers' in that one TNG episode.

>>50658446
UFP enlightened behaviour demands that people watch impassively whilst others die.

Also in the Dominion War the UFP had more to worry about than guarding junk yards.

>>50651379
Oh god please don't remind me that that episode existed

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www freewebs com / paragon19 / startrek htm
What does /stg/ think of paper craft? Does anyone know if these are any good and what kind of paper you should use? These look pretty nice actually.

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Bumping with a ship I enjoy far more than I should, honestly. I love the Pilot Escorts.

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>>50661426

I think they look great. I wouldn't mind putting one (or more) together.

As for the proper paper, I haven't the faintest clue, but I wonder if some more reading of the site could clear that up.

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tfw no fleet of miniature star ships

>>50658446
What the UFP don't know don't hurt them. One signal jammer and by the time the tech goon comes to fix it and it was a month ago that the scrap warped out.

And they wouldn't be like the Gatherers scavenging carrion from the weak and the dying.

They have a fleet. It's time to make the Dominion start dying and then they will have all the fresh meat they could want.

If the Jem'Hadar might have though the Klingons were harsh to deal with they never realized what humans were like with the standards removed.

>>50662535
what the fuck do you think this is, a board about gaming with tabletop miniatu-

>>50661595
They look like a defiant and a Jem'Hadar Attack Ship had a baby with foetal alcohol syndrome. Seriously, I'd almost rather fly in the fucking Deep Space Shoes

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>>50662535

>>50665601
Is that the Eaglemoss collection? Are there any models that are particularly delicate that I need to be aware of?

>>50665689
Any of them that have really small bits. The Nausicaan raider and the Malon garbage ship come to mind. The Bajoran solar sailor looks like it will fall apart just from being looked at, but it's been a trooper so far, and it'd be pretty easy to glue back together, I think.
All the starfleet ships have the typical break points that any model would have (>tfw no sif), but a bit of super glue will fix it right up, probably stronger than before.
My major complaint about the series is that they have some QC issues, especially for the earlier models. Like, my Stargazer's and Nebula's paint jobs are messed up, and I don't know if they did the detail part of the D'kora's ventral section at all. I think these are individual defects, though, since I haven't heard any general complaints about those particular models. The die-cast parts are great, and have amazing detail; but the plastic parts (which for most ships is most of it, since they only use metal for the big continuous sections) are really half-assed in comparison.

>>50665689
Not that guy but my brother has the collection. according to him, the nacelles can break in transit but theyre easy enough to repair with glue. Specifically I know the D7 and nebbie needed repairing. The Galor also had a damaged bridge section.

>>50665852
>>50665872
Thanks! So far my collection is just up to BoP/NX-01 (they're shipping them out of order because of availability issues), and so far I've been impressed, but the BoP stand was difficult to get to stay on because it kept wanting to spring off so I was worried that would be more typical than the better fitting ships.

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Reminder that partying kills the Q. Please do not party near the Q. Thank you.

>>50666464
>Q hanged himself from one of those beams of light

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>>50666535

Well crap. That means we'll have to find another godlike being to cowtow to.

>>50661595
I don't know, it just doesn't look like much of anyhting to me. Like they just rummaged around in the bargain bin of leftover ship assets and slapped em together.

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On the subject of ships of debatable attractiveness, I present to you the Scryer Class Intel Science Vessel. Is she, dare I say, the ugliest fucking ship?

>>50668783
Question: Is the picture of that ship upside down because if not that is first time I've seen a ship with it's deflector disc on top.

>>50668880
Thats the way it appears on the wiki page. I've never actually seen this flying dumpster-fire in game so I honestly couldn't tell you if that were the case.

>>50668783
Eh, if I can find the Kelvin Dread bearable, I can sure as hell find that one pretty good. The overslung deflector actually looks better than the underslung one on the Deep Space Science Slugs, so...eh, decent.

>>50668783
I was ok with it until I saw the starfleet registry. Then I nerdraged quietly.

>>50668783
I'm OK with it besides the nacelles. I really, REALLY hate it when they just make things clip like that. I'd be fine with it and even actually like it if it looked like they put even a little thought into how the nacelle would work around the hull. But they literally just clipped it in there.

>>50668783

I don't care for the open saucer, to be honest. I know there's an option to make it solid, but it still leaves the saucer dipping inward toward what I presume is the command module and shuttle bay beneath.

>>50669089
It has the NX Registry because the one their showing off in that image is the first of the Scryer Class.

Granted, this was back when Delta Rising was first annouced.

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>>50664764
>>50668701
Fair enough. I enjoy them because they're relatively small and somewhat more streamlined...and I never cared for the Defiant-class, so I'm biased against it unlike most. I can get why people wouldn't like the Pilot Escorts, at least the Fed ones. The Romulan ones are beautiful, though.

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on season2 of voyager and trying real hard to enjoy it but they keep bringing up neelix and how he gets jealous of other men talking to kess

when does it end?

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>>50668783
No, that will always go to the Defiant and its giant fucking penis sticking out the front.

I fucking hate the Defiant, and it's really because of the front bit. It would be bearable (barely, I hate the lack of Cochrane-style outrigger nacelles on a Federation ship) without the phallus/shnozz, but with it? Ugh.

If the idea was for a "small, compact, combat-capabale Federation starship", I really wish that the Defiant had looked more like a Saber class, which is perfect for the design goal.

>>50668783
I fly one of these, the seating is better than a DSSV, the upper deflector follows the linage of the Luna class, i really wish you could fly it upside down, it would look less wonky. Customization can help with the shittyness, there's options to cover the sensor blisters on the ring, the option to fill in the hole in the saucer, a shorter ass, and coloring options. With some tweaking, it can look not bad. Not Amazing, but not bad

>>50673925
Agreed. The Saber is like the ideal little escort design for the Federation. It keeps their design aesthetic while clearly making it a compact combat vessel.

>>50673855
Only 2 more seasons of that, anon.

>>50673855
Kes a shit waifu, only vaguely qt for the first half of Season 1, ignore everything to do with her until she fucks off with some psychic chad.
Neelix also a (somewhat less) shit character, except for being a decent foil to Tuvok a few times. Seriously, anyone living in the DQ has no right to be that happy.

>>50675544
Didn't even realise she was in until S4, that's fucking grim.

>>50675691
Neelix being happy is half a show to keep everyone else's spirits up and to actually happy that he could leave his shit life behind him where everyone he ever cared about died. The character is flawed yes but not as badly as some of the other bastards on that show.

>>50675691
>>50675993
It's also worth noting that Neelix had seen some shit. Some serious shit. The sort of shit that you see every 3AM in a clockwork orange sort of way that doesn't ever let you look away again and you are fucking grateful that you wake up.

Neelix wasn't typical of his kind. The rest of his kind seemed to be pretty badass trader-mercenaries that weren't afraid of anything.

Neelix was broken.

Also Kes starts to look pretty hot when she gets the long hair.

But for the love of God don't google what the actress looks like now.

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>>50676276
>But for the love of God don't google what the actress looks like now.
Just google Naomi's actress instead anon.
Well, didn't she turn out pretty.

Anyone willing to share the playtest files for the new Star Trek Adventures RPG?

>>50675993
>>50676276
No, it should've been like that. Neelix should've been a broken mess trying to stay happy for thee sake of everyone, and it would've been a far better show if he (and others) had been given that kind of mess. But as it is, he was just the one dimensional poptimist for 7 or so years. Hell, Broken Neelix shows through better in Delta Rising than he did in the actual show.

>>50676993
It's fucking sad when STO Neelix is a more developed character than VOY Neelix.

>>50677250
I blame that one shitter producer and the crap writers that would become the same ones for ENT.
>RAGE!!!

>>50677250

It's literally the only time I've ever been able to stand him, or have any sympathy for him.

I don't blame Ethan Philips for VOY Neelix. I can guess he was doing the best with what they gave him. It just wasn't enough to elevate the character. Their cynical attempt to engineer him as the "next breakout character" backfired badly.

They should have written him as this messed up draft dodger guilty about his past, and traumatized by the war that took his family away from him. Voyager itself should have been his opportunity to reinvent himself, trying to be an optimistic native guide for them even while the blackness of what he'd done and seen was eating him up inside.

It would have also helped if he was competent.

>>50677285
I'm sure Discovery will make up for it.

No it won't

>>50677301

Is that still a thing? I keep hoping they'll shelve it.

>>50677318
They've finally started casting and everything.

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>>50677301
How can something that looks like this make up for anything?

I knew you were going to say that, anon.

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Opinions on the Springfield class? I know the New Orleans class is popular with /stg/, and rightly so, but I've never really heard opinions on the Springfield. We've discussed how terrible the Niagara, Freedom and Challenger classes are, and there's mixed opinion on the Cheyenne. So where does /stg/ stand on the Springfield.

Personally, I like it. Not as much as the New Orleans, mind you. But the multi-modular design is something we don't see often on Starfleet ships and I appreciate it for that. Plus, she doesn't look half bad.

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>>50678915
Good framework, needs slight re-positioning of the elements. Not a fan of the support bars for the underside.

>>50677250
A more developed character over the course of one fucking mission (plus when he tags along to help with diplomacy), too.

>>50679240
It's sad but there we go.

Also

>>50677545
What the fuck am I looking at? It's looks like a Klingon warbird worried th Downs Syndrome.

I hope this is some sort of hilarious prank.

>>50680003
This is the proposed protagonist ship. I scincerely hope they go with something a little less... well not that anyway.

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>>50680003
it's based on the terrible proposed designs for a refit Enterprise for an un-produced film pre-Phase II.

Thing is, it's almost good. But the proportioning, the mixing of hard angular hulls alongside the curved sections, it's just a clusterfuck of design ideas. Tweak elements like making the pylons shorter, angle them up a bit, make the secondary hull rounded instead, change the neck to look more like the TOS style than the Galaxy-class's curved thing (keep the width though that's good).

Tempted to MSPaint this shit it bothers me that much.

>>50680245
>the proportioning, the mixing of hard angular hulls alongside the curved sections, it's just a clusterfuck of design ideas
Excelsior got away with that kind of godawful shit :^)

>>50680245
>>50680259
>TFW I know you anons hearts are in the right place, but........
PLEASE STOP NO AMOUNT OF 'FIXING' WILL EVER CORRECT THE SHIT PLIE THAT IS DISCOVERY!
That ship design literally makes me rage. It is just so wrong. They need to scrape the concept and start over really. Endless making small changes can't correct something that's shit at it's base level.

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>>50680731
Excelsior had a clear design style going on though rather than seemingly switching for the sake of switching.

Anyway, here's a really shitty edit. Not entirely happy with it, but my edit skills are mediocre at the most generous interpretation. Would be much improved just by putting the pylons at a tilt that worked with the curvature of the secondary hull, about a 60 degree angle off the vertical maybe.

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>>50680245
It's weird how the side-profile is disturbingly close to the JJ-prise.

>>50680259
Now I fucking love this old style of science fiction artwork. I grew up on Airfix aeroplane models and their box artwork was one of my favourite parts. But this image is abhorrent. Perhaps in an early 70's Buck Rodgers-esque serial it might work. But not for Trek.

>>50680986
By no means is this perfect but I can genuinely believe this is a part of the natural evolution of Starfleet ships, from a clumsier, post NX style of ship towards the more elegant style of the Connie.

>>50681705
I was half tempted to just post a Lancaster class or something like that from the Museum and call it good.

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Admiral, we have a new assignment for you. We've received intelligence that the Romulans have developed a new anti-Q weapon. We need you to infiltrate the Romulans, find out everything you can about this weapon, and report back to us. Good luck admiral.

>>50683302
How did Q die?

>>50683620
I didn't quite see it, but from the corner of my eye it looked like some sort of massive plasma explosion.

>>50683620
I don't know what I was expecting.

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>>50683620
>How did Q die?
See >>50666464
It seems too much partying was the answer the whole time.

>>50683751
May Slurms M'k'n'zy's soul rest in peace.

>>50677545
>How can something that looks like this make up for anything?
By getting blown the fuck up in the first 5 minutes of the pilot.

>>50683751
>TFW if only Picard would have indulged Q with his celebrating, it would have solved the problem. You know what, Picard's stick in the mad mindset really is his biggest flaw.

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>>50685397
*mud

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>>50680259

You'd think Ralph McQuarrie would always produce great stuff, considering his talent, but I've never been able to like this fucking thing.

>>50680731

Excelsior has only handful of angles, and they're in the right place to break up her curves and keep her visually interesting.

>>50680986

I commend your effort, but I think the ship needs her stardrive section to be redone completely. Agreed on needing to tilt the pylons. The saucer is mostly fine, in my mind.

>>50683302

Go home Q. You're drunk.

>>50685365
I sincerely hope you're right

>>50685828
Well, at least for the Excelsior Class there seems to be a logic to its design can't say the same thing about this >>50677545.

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Bump with Quark makes a killing by selling prune juice to Klingons.
Of course, he labels it something more menacing than that, so Klingons will buy it.

>>50690948
Terran Prooce!

>>50691902
You know in STO they need to you to do more joke quests in game, just because. Like having to delivery a shipment of collectable baseball cards to DS9 because baseball is now a big thing in the sector because of you know who. And you get attacked by raiders who want your shipment and then you get a bounty on your head for beating them. And have to this milk run because you lost a bet or owe a favor.

>>50692236
But that wouldn't serve the singular storyline that now governs STO, and thus is verboten. Just like the old Q mission, the tribble mission (lame as it was), the loyalty-testing mission, the one over the post-warp civ....

>>50692236
The only type of fun you're allowed to have in STO is the kind you have mining dilithium for Phoenix packs.

>>50692417
Phoenix packs are now gone mate.

>>50692459
Fugg, was gonna buy a few later.

>>50692576
Now is time to grind dil for zen again.

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>>50692762
>TFW I just want to play my waifu ship.
I have to grind like a bitch or pay money I don't got at the moment to spend.
>FML ;_;

>>50693032

There's an alternative. Arc Quests. You can grind zen that way. But, the downside is you have to download and install another launcher program and a game you're not really interested in playing.

The Arc Quests that say "Play X number of days" or "Play x number of consecutive days" don't actually care how long you play them. Just launching them is enough.

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>>50656485
Speaking of looking well, it's not for me, but DAMN, look at this color scheme.

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Oh shit.

>>50694119
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQoRXhS7vlU

>>50694119

Looks promising. I'm not a fan of ENT, but I don't hate the NX.

>>50694119
One can dream.

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>>50694221
>dream
It's on Tribble with the NX-class model update, and the windows are there on 2 window options. Pretty sure we're past the dreaming point here.
https://imgur.com/a/mJtEC

>>50694368
Need i even say it?
R&D pack event reward with less than 1% chance of dropping.

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Favourite STO design that doesn't make an appearance in the shows or films? Personally mine has to be the Ar'Kif

>>50696158

I rather like the Aelahl. I don't have any pics at the moment though.

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>>50697576
Solid choice.

>>50696158
>>50697903
Romulans sure do like their big hollow spaces on their ship designs don't they. Is there a reason they do this or is it a purely a looks thing by the show artists? I'm guessing it could make the ship more structurally sound.

>>50698285
I've never hear a reason for it in-univers. I suspect that it's to make it look more different to the Klingon ships.

My on idea for why is that it's used as storage space. Romulans first built their Empire pre-warp drive somehow. Ignore that they must have had warp drives to get all the way from Vulcan to Romulous.

So their ships had to be big to hold everything to deal with everything they could possibly ruin into. The design is a hold over from that old mindset. You fill a bunch of cargo crates, stash them in the central hollow and your warship can haul more shit than any other ship built by any other empire. All contained and moved by a single warp-field.

One of them could land in obit of a planet and within a month have a large fully built colony that looks like it's been there since forever.

>>50698285
Well from what I heard originally the artist who designed the D'Dex thought that nacelles had to see each other to work, but like >>50698483 said I don't know why in-universe.

>>50698285

I imagine it had something to do with keeping a black hole warp core in check

>>50698601
>I imagine it had something to do with keeping a black hole warp core in check
Ok when did that become a thing for the Romulans? In TOS I assumed they used a system similar to the Feds to get the power to run their ships. And in TNG, they just boom drop it on us, 'oh BTW we have a singularity as a power source'. That was kind of out of left field, is just some stupid by the writers going you know what would be 'cool' a black hole in the engine room. And then I remember it's just a stupid sci-fi show at it's core. :P

>>50698560
>>50698285

Well the nacelles seeing each other was a design mandate of the time. Supposedly there's wibbly shit going on between them. Same reason there wasn't supposed to be odd numbered nacelle ships, which was ignored from Best of Both Worlds onward.

>>50698483
>I suspect that it's to make it look more different to the Klingon ships.

Same, given the Klingons had not yet moved into the chunkier new style at the end of TNG season 1 when the new Romulans showed up, having just re-used stock footage from TMP and the bird of prey when needed.
I'll have to check and see if Probert said anything in an interview about it somewhere, since it's his design.

>>50698884
Nah that's about right, it did come out of no-where.
The Starfleet Museum has a nice non-canon explanation though in that Romulans basically didn't invent Antimatter reactors, being both unwilling and unable to produce it, so continuing to use Fusion reactors for their warp drive until they traded with the Klingons. Following the end of that they had to continue development on something that they'd started way back during the end phase of the war with Earth, which was theoretical work on using artificial black holes as a power source. Which almost two centuries later finally worked out.

But as I said, non-canon.

>>50693032
your waifu a shit tho

>>50698285
I always thought it was a psychological thing. You could easily fit the tech of a D'Deridex Warbird into something much smaller, but it projects power. The Enterprise, flagship of the most advanced nation in near space, is dwarfed by the standard vessel of the Romulan Navy. And we really only ever see the D'Deridex, so it's fair to say she is projected as the primary workhorse of the Romulan Navy. If a Romulan Warbird showing up on sensors is considered bad news on the Enterprise, then just imagine the reaction of the crew of a Klingon Bird of Prey(jubilation at their fast approaching death) or some poor bastards assigned to a Miranda class.

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>>50698285
There are other reasons

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>>50700598

>Miranda class
>D'deridex warbird decloaks
>Panic beneath Federation stiff upper lip
>Romulans threaten us
>Weeee're baaaack!
>Tell them to fuck off back to the other side of the Neutral Zone
>They start shooting
>Whatever it is, its burning holes in this old tub
>Their faces when we fly in between their nacelles, and blow their command module to hell with out photon torpedoes
>D'deridex begins to break apart
>Science officer babbles something about quantum singularities
>Assume its bad
>Pull a Picard and do a micro-warp jump to get the hell away
>Tough on the old tub, but she holds together
>D'deridex collapses into black hole
>Shake head, Romulans are madmen to fly that thing
>Never get promoted
>Dominion War starts

Or, alternatively:

>Miranda
>D'deridex decloaks
>Starts shooting
>All hands lost

>>50700793
>Dominion War starts

>All hands lost

How are these different endings, anon?

>>50701084

The second one is the more cynical view of what happens when a D'deridex and a Miranda face off.

>>50700793
Here are, as I see it the 3 most likely scenarios.

>Miranda on patrol
>minor fluctuation in navigational shielding
>single molecule of space-dust punctures hull and matter-antimatter intermix chamber
>all hands lost

>Miranda on patrol
>notices interesting stellar phenomenon
>crew goes insane and kill each other
>all hands lost

>Miranda leaves spacedock
>Borg invade
>all hands lost

>>50701159

>Miranda on patrol
>Enterprise-(B-?) encounters some sort of timefuckery
>Timeline is altered
>Crew was never born
>Ship was never built
>all hands lost retroactively

>>50701159
>Miranda floating in interstellar space, not close to anything particularly dangerous, no secret experiments.
Lost with all hands

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>>50701866
>Miranda on patrol
>Wanders into a time rift
>Crashes into the Enterprise D over and over again for 90 years, surviving
>Finally freed
>Get caught up in the Dominion War and survive
>Get caught up in the battle of Sector 001 against a Borg Cube and survive
>Lol it was a Soyuz all along, get fucked Miranda!

>a supply of Chinese finger traps are provided to the crew of a Miranda, for entertainment purposes
>all hands lost

>>50641738
The Emissary Did Nothing Wrong

So who else is legitimately angry at Starfleet for not allowing genetic augments, who quite literally cannot help what they are for the most part since it was done in childhood or as an embryo? Hell, it's amazing no writer has ever tried this as a storyline of TRUE bigotry.

Speaking of, Sisko had the one moment with the casino robbery episode where he was complaining about something that wasn't happening anymore, a long time ago in the past, while constantly playing baseball holos set in the same era or earlier. How come Kasidy Yates didn't call him out on that horseshit?

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>>50693903
https://youtu.be/CvVHwsig8T4
My first thought, and even done by a guy named kirk.

But really it a nice thought out color scheme, I mainly just throw shit at my hull and see what sticks.

Also, very much chrome.

>>50704687
The closest I would say would be the TNG episode Masterpiece Society.
When it's discovered that, while they're not genetic supermen, they are all genetically planned out for their place in society, Picard immediately says he wants nothing to do with them and outright refuses to meet with any of them until the end where he tries to convince them all to stay in their little dome city. Geordi even rubs it in their lead scientists face that a device made for a blind man held the answer to moving the star piece that was threatening them.

I can only imagine the disappointment of the few that were granted asylum when the Federation locked them away in "The Institute" where the rest of the genetic freaks are held prisoner.

>>50704687
I'm fine with it.

>>50704687
Well, there was the episode they find out Bashir had his genes tinkered with as a child. And because of it they instead of firing and banning him from Star fleet. They put his dad in jail for two years WHAT IS THE FUCKING POINT OF THAT?! Where is the enlightenment in that? Just fine him and revoke his citizenship maybe but imprisonment is more like a bother for the UFP than anything.

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>>50638314
Jaylah is a badass weapon wielding waifu with good taste in music. She reminds me of an ex.

>>50680003
>What the fuck am I looking at? It's looks like a Klingon warbird worried th Downs Syndrome.
You're not entirely wrong. From what I've heard so far there's a Klingon captain and thanks to what we know from ENT S4 he'll be a TOS style smooth-faced Klingon due to the lingering effects of the augment virus, and there's Klingon tech mixed in. Literally KANGZ TREK.

>>50705033
I'll agree that genetically planned for specific roles is stupid. But increasing the average intelligence? How well we heal? Strength? Disease resistance? All of those would be a boon to the Federation, and there's enough that you can use for genetic variation to keep a widespread gene pool.

>>50705927
Remember that TOS was filmed 21 years after WWII so any attempt at eugenics was le ebil nazis, and that the 90s were the start of the GMO "muh organic foodz" panic. I would personally houserule that nonsense away in any game set post WoK.

>>50706686
I'd still go with some social stigma towards people who weren't merely fixing genetic defects or trying to improve overall quality of life. It's one thing to help people, its another to create a human being capable of surviving attacks that would kill Klingons.

>>50706750
A fair point. Although I can easily see the UFP lapsing into churning Augments out whenever they think they're going into a real war. They tend to, you know, throw away their ethics the minute they realize they're out of their element. Actually, anti-Borg forces being Augments specifically tailored to be tougher to assimilate would make sense.

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>>50707900
>>50706750
The UFP should have used the Arcturians from ST: the Motion Picture. But I'm guessing Feds using almost disposable troops in battle could have sent the wrong message. But that many ground troops could have helped in the Dominion War for sure.

>>50705261

Revoking his citizenship would have cost him much, much more than simply imprisoning him. And likely this a Federation prison, which is like a hotel that you're not allowed to leave.

>>50639964
It's true. The TNG crew doesn't have that Avengers-esque quips and quarls routine to dance between levity and tension when antagonists aren't around. They are really all too professional.

>>50708953
>Arcturians
Huh, I didn't know they were a thing. That's...actually some remarkably good worldbuilding from TMP.

>>50710306
TMP had a load of good ideas put into it. A lot of that I think was just building up for Phase 2, but because they suddenly had the budget to do a ton of aliens in the crew, well they did a bit more than just raid the costume closet anyway.

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Seeing as we're discussing Augments, I have some theories.

I feel like the UFP, for basic, logical reasons, would have to allow some forms of Human augmentation. After all, plenty of other races, such as the Denobulans, have been using gene modification for centuries. Simply blacklisting all research into human augmentation, even for medical purposes, just because of "muh 300 year old boogeyman" is willfully stupid on the part of the Federation. And I presume that, amongst the huge human population of the Federation, there have to be at least a few malcontents. People who's family or friends could have avoided years of pain and suffering with simple genetic manipulation. A cure for numerous physical disabilities, mental disorders and hereditary diseases.

I'm not even talking about superior intellect, I'm talking about guaranteeing basic quality of life for citizens. That's the sort of thing that the Federation generally gets a full-chub for, so I don't get why they balk at it now. If you want to add a "no Space-Hitlers, please" clause to your research and implementation then yeah, that seems fair. But, given that Bashir's familu had to break the law to make sure he wasn't born in, essentially, a vegetative state, it seems that even that is seemed as unreasonable.
So, I propose that the Federation would be better served, and in turn would better serve its citizenry, by applying the following rules: (cont...) (seriously, this one's a doozy)

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>>50711352
1: No citizen shall be permitted to engage in research in to the development of an "evolution" of the human genome, as the natural, gradual evolution of the species should be observed.
1.1: Similarly, any attempts to create a "superman" or "superior species" shall be illegal.

2: Research in to augmentation for medical purposes shall be permitted, so long as the scope of the research does not breach the restrictions implied by article 1.
2.1: Appeals may be made to a court of the Terran Medical Institute and Starfleet Medical Branch.

3: The genetic manipulation of a Human embryo shall be permissible in situations where the nascent child would suffer undue adversity due to treatable/correctable DNA degradation and mutation.
3.1: Relevant, applicable examples of the requirements for article 3 include, but are not limited to: Severe and partial impairment of neurological processes, the full or partial loss of 1 or more senses, severe or partial loss of motor control, hereditary diseases (Cystic Fibrosis, Multiple Sclerosis, Localised Cancer, etc)
3.1.1: Unacknowledged impairments may be appealed by in a court of the Terran Medical Institute and Starfleet Medical Branch.
3.2: Any attempts to improve a perfectly healthy baby, or to create an idealised “designer baby” shall not be permitted
3.3: In instances where the augmentation of a child is deemed permissible, only the relevant genes shall be augmented. No other “improvements” are to be made.

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>>50711366
3.4: In instances where, in order to cure an embryo of an accepted impairment, some other augmentations, generally deemed unacceptable, must be made, the quality of life of the child shall come before the restrictions of article 1.
3.4.1: Any and all practical implementations of article 3.4 shall be revieved by a court of the Terran Medical Institute and Starfleet Medical Branch before implementation.
3.4.2: If, due to pressing time requirements, such augmentations as are described in article 3.4 must be implemented without prior approval then, at the discretion of the operating physician, such augmentations may be made.
3.4.3: In instances of the situation outlined in article 3.4.2 are carried out, a court of the Terran Medical Institute and Starfleet Medical Branch shall be convened to assess the legality of the augmentation and, should the augmentations be deemed unlawful the possible dismissal of the operating physician.

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>>50711377
4: In instances where a partially human embryo is deemed viable but may suffer from any of the impairments outlined in article 3.1, then the operating physician may operate per the strictures of the entirety of article 3 and its subsections.
4.1: Any embryo that is a cross between human and any Federation species is obliged to pass the legal augmentation requirements of both parent species.
4.1.1: Appeals may be made to a joint court of the the Terran Medical Institute, the relevant medical authority of the other involved species and Starfleet Medical Branch.
4.2: Any embryo that is a cross between human and any species that is a signatory of a Federation Interbreeding Treaty is obliged to pass the requirements of article 3 and all its subsections and is expected, but not obliged, to pass the legal requirements of the state of the non-human parents.
4.2.1: In cases where the child’s non-human parentage forbids augmentation under present circumstances, the attendant physician may choose to implement the augmentations, at their own discretion.
4.3: Any embryo that is a cross between human and any species that is not a signatory of a Federation Interbreeding Treaty is obliged to pass the requirements of article 3 but is neither expected nor obliged to pass the requirements of the non-human parent’s state.


(Feel free to suggest other restrictions.)

>>50711352
>I feel like the UFP, for basic, logical reasons, would have to allow some forms of Human augmentation.

I'm fairly certain this was at some point canon, removing a lot of conditions and problems, especially in the wake of genetic damage resulting from all the N.B.C. weaponry unleashed in WW3.

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>>50661595
The pilot escorts are cool ships, but nowhere near as sexy as this beast...

>>50712689
see >>50700586

>>50712718
The Hephaestus is ugly as fuck, for real. That's why I use the Hestia skin on mine.

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>>50712689
Those are nice curves, but i still love this gal.

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>>50712787
I'm not the biggest fan of how the Paladin looks, but fuck me if it can't dish out an insane asswhuppin'

>>50698884
>>50699190

The map of the Hirogen communication stations, which were the only other tech we saw powered by singularities, shows the network extending well into the Beta Quadrant.

Headcanon/speculation is that at some point between TOS and TNG, the Romulans captured a few and reverse engineered them.

>>50705927
After Khan, genetic engineering is the toothbrush moustache of the 24th century. Sure, there shouldn't be anything inherently wrong with it to an outside observer like us.
But good luck trying to walk around doing it.

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>>50712689
Tempest all the way for me

>>50712689
Must admit, I'm a fan of the Prometheus. And I generally think 4-nacelled chips look like ass, so that's saying something.

>>50715906

>chips

It does look a little like a Dorito, comes to think of it.

>>50713559
this is...probably by far the best way I've heard it explained

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>>50717044
>>50713559
It kind of funny to hear that when TNG just drops on you humans superior to even Khan and his gang on you. And then never mention them again. You know if they ever fix the flaw. Normal humans are doomed not because they are evil but because they are so much better than the current human in TNG.
>TFW Darwin Station would be nuked from orbit and the event quietly filed under 'unexplained cause'.

>>50717608
They probably just put them in whatever deep hole the other galaxy changing things got locked away in.

>>50719851
They're all stored inside that one Dyson Sphere.

>>50658193
Actually they pretty much just described what the writers called "The Frankenstein Fleet". It's canon.

>>50719851
They have an asylum or something, right?

>>50719851
So, in a crate at Starfleet HQ with the Genesis Device and Red Matter.

>>50638172
top 5 ds9 episodes in no order, go

the magnificent ferengi
in the pale moonlight
far beyond the stars
house of quark
the one where worf slays gowron

i liked the baseball one too and the casino heist one which were all solid but i couldnt remember their names

>>50724166

>In the Pale Moonlight
Hands down my favourite. For obvious, well explored reasons

>Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges
This is my favourite of the tragically few section 31 episodes. It also happens to be one of the few truly great Bashir episodes.

>The Wire
What I loved about this episode is that, with the exception of his speech in "What We Leave Behind", this is probably the most honest that we ever get to see Garak being.

>The Magnificent Ferengi
The best of Ferengi-centric episodes and probably the most light-hearted the show has ever been.

>Hard Time
It's a simple truth of the universe that Miles O'Brien must suffer. But never has his on-screen misfortune been as poignant as in this episode. It's also one of the few times that Trek handles a heavy concept, in this case suicide, with supreme grace and care.

There are dozens of episodes I could add to this list. Ds9 really is a fantastic show. Here are few honourable mentions:
>Far Beyond the Stars
>Rules of Engagement
>The Siege of AR-558
>House of Quark
>Return to Grace
>Second Skin
>Visitor
>Explorers
>Indiscretion
>The Way of the Warrior

>>50725005
Is the one on the left supposed to be the Kobayashi Maru?

>>50725341
Nope, the USS Mughi.
http://www.startrek.com/article/celebrating-the-ships-of-the-line-the-uss-mughi-ncc-2260

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>>50700793
Sad thing is, they used the "fly in between the twin hulls of the Dderidex
thing in an actual novel... Granted, it was a Shatnerverse novel, It was a Blacked out defiant class with Sensor absorbent material on it, and they blew up the D'deridex by Spinning... but they did it.

>>50726487

I'm sorry to say I've read that particular novel. It wasn't good.

>>50726525
I know... The only thing i Liked about it was the blacked out defiant, with engines tuned to the Ultraviolet spectrum.

>>50726487
>shatnerverse
say no more fampai

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>>50726671
Yea. It was bad. If im remembering correctly, the Romulans were allied with the Borg, stole Kirks body off of Viridian III, brought him back to life with all his memories suppressed and new ones implanted for... some reason. Borg wanted to use him to lure Spock to.. i think get his memories of V'ger out of him, while the rommies wanted him to...give them tactical data on starfleet.. or something.. I just remember the Defiant class and that there were borg dogs and borg... crab-machine things.

>>50726487
>blew up the D'deridex by Spinning

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uBlhgAkJBos

>>50726487
>Star Trek
>Spinning
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlAsSyDAWR8
Of course, it's Trek so it would never be anywhere as 'cool' as it was in 'Last Starfighter'.

>>50726487
Star Trek Armada had flying through the D'Deridex's twin hulls in it's opening cinematic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2LbEQbnFNM

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>>50727383

>D'deridex shooting from its navigational deflector

We have the SFX team to blame for this.

>>50727447
YFW those Romulan Ships are actually just firing tachyon beams

My God, WE were the aggressors all along

>>50724166
"In the Pale Moonlight" - duh
"Duet" - a strong contender for best ep in the franchise, I think. Immediately launched DS9 from mediocre to consistently good.
"Trials and Tribblelations" - even without the nostalgia, just a damn good episode of sci-fi, and one of the times that Trek gets humor right.
That's only three, deal with it.

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>>50727447
>>50727549
>deflectors
There's nothing to say that's what that is, nothing canon, anyways.

>>50728893

Well, there is the designer's word, but yes, that isn't canon. Not that "canon" is anything that should be aspired to.

>>50728961
>Not that "canon" is anything that should be aspired to.
It should be something adhered to, when talking about the freaking show.

>>50729062
Well, at least as much as the show does.

>>50729062

I would argue that they should be consistent within their own series, and consistent with the others.

Inducting inconsistencies into a "canon" is worse than having no consistency.

>>50727383
...and yet it's still far better executed and gives far more warm fuzzy feelings than anything Cryptic possibly could.

At least Sela's consistent between the two vidyagaems

>>50729062
If we disregard canonicity as a whole, then we basically have no common ground to engage on. I could just randomly decide that all my characters are *insert cancerous trope here* and there would be nothing to define me as abhorrent beyond the optimistic hope that other /tg/ browsers didn't find my cognitive dissonance terrible. Given the sheer number of "magical realm" discussions on /tg/, I don't choose to put my faith in the userbase.

>>50730319
Problem is, there's a lot of overlapping 'canon' to go buy. It's almost 40k tier in choose-your-own-canon. Well ok maybe that's an exaggeration but there's all sorts of fuzzy details about things that should really be core concepts of the setting, or ones that violate actual stated core things. Like when the entire episode 'Threshold', which was already violating known canon, was quietly retconned later on with a single line from Paris.

I think the best thing we can do is just agree that if something is shown to happen in the show it might not be accurate, because mistakes happen. Like that one time the Enterprise D shot phaser beams out of the forward torpedo launcher for a glaring example of creating a unique special effect shot completely at odds with every other episode, technical diagram or whatever, never to be used again iirc, where really they could have just been lazy and used one of the many existing phaser shots emitting from an actual phaser array. That one bugs me.

Personally I prefer to go with the word-of-god approach to things like starship designs because even if it's not more consistent than what's shown on screen, it's usually more detailed to build off of for the purposes of making other stuff. Like the RPGs we theoretically play. For instance, >>50708953 have fuck all detail other than they're there going by what's shown, going by the creator's description suddenly there's a fuckton of stuff to work with.

>>50730509
>quietly retconned later on with a single line from Paris.
?

>>50732759
"Belanna, remember that time we all did so much drugs I and the Captain thought we were lizards?"

>>50727447
>>50727549
>>50728893
>>50728961
>>50729062
>>50729151
>>50729155
>>50729205
>>50730319
>>50730509
>>50732759
>>50732839
>TFW we should all do, 'A Q DID IT!'
For anything really anomalous that should really be our fall back excuse since if we try to explain it any other way would just drive us nuts.
>TFW it's all just a stupid TV show and we should really just relax.

>>50727008
The Return was far, far better than any of the later Shatnerverse novels, and at least tried to tie the two eras together a little more tightly. In any case, the Romulan/Borg alliance weren't interested in using Kirk to bring them Spock, it was so that Kirk would off Picard and his crew because at the time, they were the only ones with any wins against the Borg in the Alpha Quadrant. Plus starting with this novel, the Borg left a latent connection with the Collective that could be accessed if the right signals were sent from implants. Anyway, the novel ends with Kirk blowing up the Borg "homeworld" with a conveniently placed lever. Also said Defiant class was an interim USS Enterprise for the mission's duration.

What the significance of V'ger and Spock was, was that Spock's melding with V'ger made the Collective think he was assimilated, because the "machine planet" V'ger visited was the Borg's homeworld. Or with some rewrites, a Unimatrix.

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Bump with if you were to leave the Milky Way galaxy to colonize another galaxy, what races would you bring with you?

>>50732759
Humans, humans, humans.
Because I'm a Humanist :^)

On a related note, everyone forgets those dwarf-galaxies we have floating around our own. More should be done with them as a thing.

I think star fleet battles did a bit but I can't remember what other than I think the main Tholian fleet ended up there and that parts were used as a staging area by the Andromedans, or rather, the weird tentacle monsters that turned people into styrofoam D12s who were from the Andromeda galaxy.

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>mfw current events regarding obama

>>50734780
El-aurians + Augment genes.

>>50734780
Tholians. Increase the number of different types of planet we could colonize and exploit, without competition because they use totally different biomes.

And Bolians, they tend to be annoying but what little we know about them seems to focus a lot on their "hat" being really good infrastructure and service industry. Their historians' main commentary on 21st century Earth was "Wow, these guys suck at plumbing."

>>50736853
But anon, the Russians MUST have been behind it all!
Who else could have hacked electronic ballot boxes that aren't connected to the internet as well as paper ballots?

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>>50737378
>THIS MEME
Chekov would not be amused.

>>50737378
I just would like to point out that from my European experience, it is not thatt weird.Russians have been hacking European corporate infrastructure for the last ten years or what. They are pretty skilled at it. Not as skilled in removing their tracks though.

>>50737378
>>50738048
>>50738064
To be fair lads, it's more important that we get the 3rd world war under way as soon as possible. We only have 50 or so years until the Vulcans show up and we're nowhere near devestated enough yet.

>>50733027
I remember thinking The Return was the coolest novel when I was a young teenager. Now, the only thing I can do is cringe at the memory.

Looking back though, I have wondered if they gave Shatner access to development notes or something while he was writing it, because there's a scene that only makes sense once you know Bashir is an Augment.

>>50738846
Personally, I think it's an okay novel that at least makes an attempt at simultaneously giving Kirk a cooler death than the moving while fighting Shatner's ego about the character. The Reeves-Stevenses aren't the best writers of Trek by a long shot, but I think it works waaaay better than the other ones in the series. Kirk's half Romulan, half Klingon waifu got old, as did Mirror Kirk fucking over the multiverse because Kirk convinced Spock to flip on him was cool though.

Since I know bugger all about ST, I need to ask something.
Is ground warfare even relevant to the setting? Have spaceships rendered ground-pounding useless in most (ordinary) conflicts?

>>50739231
Depends on tech level i suppose.
If it has shields and can shoot back at you, then you send in some red shirts armed with phasers via a teleporter or a shuttlecraft.
Otherwise you can set your ship phasers to stun on a wide area, like they did on that one TOS episode where Kirk and company got themselves in some trouble on a gangster planet.

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>>50738877
So did all the Vulcan Mirror males have beards? I think Vulcans can only grow facial hair if they go evil or crazy. Must be a brain hormone thing.

>>50739231
Most, not all.

In DS9 there were at least 2 episodes that dealt with it. 1 was Fed vs Kling defend the hospital and Jake pussies out and leaves Bashir to die.

2nd was Fed vs Dominion defend the listening station, Nog gets his leg shot off feds win by applying engineering know how. Had the man who played Lenir from B5 in it.

>>50739231
Mostly spacecraft have rendered the ground game irrelevant only in the Federation. The Klingons and other races have sizable armies that do actually go to war, while the Federation doesn't really do ground troops well, when they do it. Since the Feds shtick is peaceful cooperation, a standing army doesn't do the job.

>>50739260
Which hasn't appeared since, and for good reason.

>>50739269
IIRC, one of the novels set during Mirror Spock's reign implied that goatees were a minor fashion craze throughout the entire empire, something Spock did nothing to discourage. So, maybe?

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>>50739231
It's relevant, but it just never gets shown on TV really.

>>50739231
Spaceships are great for just glassing a target, and much less great when you want to actually take and hold some kind of objective or infrastructure.
See: Siege of AR-558

>>50739881
As much as I love that game, it made no god damn sense.

>lets turn a bunch of shuttles into tanks that can hover but not fly
>lets then also sporadically have our much larger, better equipped vessels fly overhead and fuck everybody's shit

>>50741439
Unfortunately I never made it too terribly far in the game because I was a stupid kid when I played it. I can't wait until I get my Win98 machine up and running again so I can take a serious go at it.

>>50739929
AR-558 showed how really fucked Starfleet ground combat is
>No building of defensive structures
>No attempt at body armor or laying out shields
>No proper evac zone for the injured or supplies
>Tactics that Napoleon would roll his eyes at
Literally just beam down a few waves of people and then leave for a week or two and hope a few are still alive when you come back. It's like Russian front shit.
You better hope your ship counselor can fix these people when you evac them before they start murdering children.

>>50742153
I just try to explain it away as the Federation was so stretched in the war that proper ground equipment wasn't available for evryone. With all the ground fighting that must have happened with the Dominion invasion, and the subsequent liberation of large numbers of Federation and Klingon worlds, I'm sure that the proper Starfleet and KDF marines were just about bled dry, with standard ship security and conscripts/volunteers having to step in, without the benefit of training or equipment at these later stages of the war.

>>50724166
>In the Pale Moonlight/Inquisition
I count these as the same episode in a way. Dealing with threats to the Federation, acknowledging that what you are doing is morally wrong, while still doing it to protect something greater. The sheer irony of Sisko doing that one episode later would almost lead me to think he was an S31 member if not for everything else.
>Generic Ferengi Episode
In general I love them all, though I think I'd count Business as Usual, Who Mourns for Morn, or The Nagus as among the better ones.
>Badda Bing, Badda Bang
I have played too much F:NV, and I'm a sucker for a good con or theft story.
>Shakaar
An episode about a tyrant trying to seize control of the means of production, and bringing the planet to the brink of civil war. Add in bits about the previous war and the Kai's demand for trade before they can even feed their own people... You've got a solid episode, and a good start to your own DPRK.
>The Maquis
A nascent rebellion, Dukat doing what Dukat does best in all the most wonderful ways, and becoming a political scapegoat to boot. Yeah, the Federation's reasons for hating the Maquis are completely contrived (and the Maquis were right), but still solid.

>>50742153
Given the seemingly lax standards the Feds have for counsellors I wouldn't hold much hope for them.

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>>50742153
To be fair, they weren't assaulting a target or even holding a major position, they were just trying to get some info out of a comm array then leave. Should have been quick and easy once the initial assault was done, basically your typical away mission, but it became a mess obviously.
That being said, you're right in general. Janeway got her first taste of blood as a science officer (a biologist I think) doing a *combat patrol* during the Cardassian conflict. That's just full retard, and typical of the "we're not military even though we do all military things" bullcrap that Trek pulled all the time. Especially egregious when we know a typical tactical officer (ie, not an engineer or specialist in whatever magitech) can rig a personal shield out of a com badge. At least in STO you get body armor and personal shields for your constant Commando Admiral raids.

>>50744271
It's really one of the reasons I appreciated the MACOs in Enterprise, because, frankly, there needs to be some form of dedicated military personnel on each vessel to handle combat. Ship's security's one thing but, frankly, I don't want Ensign Gofuckyourself or Lt. Asshat covering me when I could have MACOs deployed as security.

>>50739929
>>50742153
>>50744335
You know if they had just used that idea of using these guys >>50708953 from the movie. Having an alien UFP really ground force would have made garrisoning and taking back Fed territory so much easier in the long run. I just wonder what they would be like as a people. Maybe something like the Sontarans from Dr. Who. Now having a bunch of these guys on the Enterprise D would have been hilarious.

>>50745895
*really>ready

>>50737232
>Wow, these guys suck at plumbing
Anon, that's becauses they shit out literal fucking acid. Or bleach. One of the two.

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>>50746257
>Anon, that's becauses they shit out literal fucking acid. Or bleach. One of the two.
>TFW sharing a bathroom with a Bolian roommate is not an option. Well, I guess have a Bolian gf is out of the question or at least anal is definitely off the table.

>>50746792
>Intimate relations between Bolians and Humans typically cause adverse effects to the latter, which might include fatigue, nausea, and joint inflammation. (VOY: "Life Line")
Sorry fampai, but no dicking your qt bolian starter boff.

inb4 wikifag

>>50746874
>might

Use protection, take your shots. If those starfleet docs can have antidotes on hand for klingon tea ceremony aka let's drink poison because we're hard, there's bound to be something useful around to facilitate proceedings.

>the current year
>not knowing about Discovery
>not expecting it to be gobshite
STO global chat never ceases to amaze

>>50747108
anon, I don't care how fancy the tech or meds are in any future. There is no way you are going bareback into an opening that shoots out bleach or acid out of it on a regular basics.
>TFW HOLY OUCH BITCH!

>>50747264
>bleach or acid
Sauce, because "might include fatigue, nausea, and joint inflammation" doesn't exactly fit like they're Xenomorphs: blueberry edition.

>>50747264
Oh, don't be such a baby. They have dermal regenerators.

>>50747264
Sub-dermal shield emitters, anon. The way of the future for xenophiles the world over.

>>50747364
Not him, but the wiki speculates their bodily fluids are corrosive. That's probably about as close as you're gonna get.

>>50747364
Never explicitly stated, but hinted at there's SOMETHING up with their digestive system. In Bride of Chaotica, the fact that the ship is down to 4 working bathrooms and they have to share with the Bolian crewmates is some kind of emergency.

I've been looking through what is known to cause the listed symptoms and by my weakass-deduction (and when did a little knowledge being a dangerous thing ever stop anyone) you'd probably just have to avoid their saliva since that's likely the source of whatever is mildly poisoning (and related to digestion), since it'd have to get something into the blood stream. So no kissing.

>>50747455
Maybe they just take fucking gigantic shits. Would also help explain their focus on plumbing. Or emit noxious fumes because of their internal chemistry. Something's gotta be up with that, they're blue for a start which means different blood not based on iron at the very least.

>>50747455
I just so happened to watch Crossfire today, trying to figure out more of Shakaar's actual policies/beliefs, and in it, Bolian cuisine came up. According to Kira, Bolians age their meat to the point of near-fermentation. It's hard to tell what exactly happens to it, as Kira doesn't get to finish explaining it.

>>50747573
shit, that's grim

pun intended

I love how, with only oblique references. We can make a consistent image of the Bolians as a species. It's small things like that that really cement the setting.

>>50746874
>dicking your qt starter boff
>not awkward vulcan waifu
get the mcfuck out

>>50748593
The correct choice.

>>50747573
I wonder if the meat thing is cultural, like similar dishes on Earth that turn up in top 10 lists of most disgusting things ever produced for consumption, or if it's a dietary requirement of their digestion process. Perhaps they can't properly process insufficiently degraded meat, or at least meat of creatures of their homeworld.

That or maybe, just maybe, they react horrifically to Nelix's cooking, but the captain keeps forcing it on everyone anyway because muh morale officer crap and damn the multiple cases per month of food poisoning.

Seriously if I was stuck on Voyager, my replicator rations would be nearly entirely spent on combat ration packs so I could hoard them and rarely ever have to go near the mess hall.

>>50748743
holy shit, you hear that humans ferment fruit juices and then ENJOY imbibing the toxins produced?

>>50749409
Pretty much everyone and their dog has their own brand of booze though in star trek. Probably because it's easy to just say (some place) ale/wine/it's green and have a fancy bottle with coloured liquid.

>>50658193
Something similar was brought up in the backstory for the Broken Mirror series (a series of fan-made flash games set in the Mirror Universe). Basically, some time in the late 24th/early 25th century, the Dominion invades and decimates the Earth Empire, even taking over Earth. A bunch of human refugees find this old imperial junkyard full of old ships, mostly 23rd and even 22nd century designs. They end up refitting them and using them to form a new fleet to fight against the Dominion.

>>50669089
What's wrong with it?

>>50698285
I imagine that the big hollow "wings" are basically a further development of the Vulcan warp rings, so that geometry is somehow important for maintaining warp field geometry, or dissipating radiation or something.

>>50698884
In TOS, Scotty said the Romulans' "power is simple impulse" which is often mistakenly interpreted as meaning they had no FTL at all, which is obviously nonsensical. My preferred interpretation is that in the 23rd century, all their homegrown designs used nuclear fusion (which Federation engineers thought of as "impulse power"). They got some antimatter powered ships from the Klingons, and maybe after that they may have built some of their own, but the impression I got is that there must be some fundamental reason why they never developed antimatter power independently. Maybe it doesn't work well with a cloaking device, or something.

>>50737378
Strictly speaking, being disconnected from the internet doesn't render "hacking" impossible, it just stops "Hollywood-style" hacking (i.e. brute-forcing passwords). A lot of hacking takes the form of social engineering, and other attacks aimed at people, as human vulnerabilities are often the weak point in the system. Not saying this is how it happened, but if someone wanted to hack a ballot box, they could:
>bribe or blackmail some lowly employee into giving them a copy of the firmware
>modify the firmware
>somehow sneak in and swap the original firmware disks with the ones having the modified firmware
>then, when they go to install firmware on the new machines, they unknowingly install the modified version
Obviously, this sort of hacking takes many people and a lot of planning to pull off, but these days it's often the better way to do things anyway, since many of the computer vulnerabilities are now protected against.

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>it's a Tuvok has a chili burrito episode
Doesn't he know that stuff has meat? Is he a savage?
>30km ne of Phoenix
It shouldn't have taken the military that long to notice a crashed shuttle. There's an Air Force base just NW of Phoenix. They got there about the same time as Tuvok did, and LA is about six or seven hours away.
Also, I lived in SoCal in 1996, and I don't quite remember it like that.
>tfw watching VOY at 2am

>>50751855
So basically this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t75xvZ3osFg

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>>50753586
Speaking of food, which alien race has the most stomach turning diet to you, anon.
>TFW have the Klingons ever heard of cooking their food?
Well, at least we know the food is fresh usually which is more than we can say about some Bolian cuisine.

>>50755605
The Cardassians drink cold fish-juice in the morning. That seems pretty bad.

>>50704687
>So who else is legitimately angry at Starfleet for not allowing genetic augments, who quite literally cannot help what they are for the most part since it was done in childhood or as an embryo?

It's about setting a precedence.
If super freaks are allowed in and rise to the top then suddenly it's an illegal genetic arms race.

>>50756007
But borging up cripples with tech or having sapient super robot, is ok? How the hell is that fair? As long it is a tech upgrade vs a bio upgrade than it's ok? That's one huge blind spot that the UFP has for what could be abused and nearly was if they had decided Data had no sapient rights.

>>50755605
Isn't the whole point of Klingon "cooking" to show how badass you are?

It's kind of like extreme sports. You go to the restaurant, the chef scoffs at you and just throws your food on the plate. You have to fight against your instincts as you shovel the living worms in your mouth and eat.

I imagine it's not about the taste, but more about persevering and conquering your disgust.

>>50756344
Given Worf's reaction to Prune Juice, as well as how Klingons seem to love good Bloodwine ("I brought an entire barrel of 2309, there is no finer vintage!", "This Bloodwine is cold! get me another!") I think it's fair to say that, at least when it comes to drinks, Klingons Know what they like.

As for food; The Klingon Chef on DS9 (a criminally underused character) has an argument with Dax after she states that she wouldn't eat such pathetic gagh, he laughs in her face and agrees to give her the good shit. We see Worf feasting on Klingon food, with gusto, on a couple of occasions in TNG.

I think that it's more likely that the Klingons are insanely passionate about what they eat. Like everything else, they don't see the point of eating just to survive. You eat, drink, fight and fuck so that your life will, at the end of things, been worthy of song. It's just that, like the Bolians, their food is visually unappealing to us and may not suit our taste palette.

>>50756344
There was a TNG episode where Human and Klingon food was compared and was noted that Klingon food tended to be a lot more flavorful.

Then again, that may be a hit against replicated food as it was mentioned in DS9 that replicated food tasted like watered down shit compared to the real home grown, hand made thing.

>>50756704
http://www.pajiba.com/think_pieces/the-disgusting-but-logical-implications-of-star-trek-food-replication-technology.php
Well, this article pretty much expresses what I think the replicators really are and why there is only one bathroom shown on the Enterprise D. And remember how Troi keeps saying she wants real chocolate and there isn't any on the ship. Everything is like a veggie version of what you want.

>>50757152
Well aside from the Replicator later being fluffed as literal energy to matter conversion, sure. What that's talking about is the food synthesizers of TOS, though the ships of the era still took on food supplies in most cases.

>>50757152
Not having to take a shit EVER sounds like a hell of a benefit, though I'd be a little wary of the whole thing.

Personally, I think it's related to what their home and family cooking was like, combined with the fact that these things are going to be programmed by nutritionists for health instead of flavor. I'm at the point whereI prefer my dad's steak so much that I don't even bother with restaurant steaks, and I suspect that would be the same for the Feds.

>TFW the Bolians have clogged the toilets again
>ALL HANDS ABANDON THREAD
>ALL HANDS TO ESCAPE PODS
>THIS IS NOT A DRILL!