2016 EARHT IS UNDER ATTACK (Small WAAAGH)

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>12 million
>small

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vh0zP-TesU

Might aswell paint ourselves Green and trick some orks we are so fucked

>>50638004
> 12 million vs 7 billion
Only a small percentage of those are soldiers though.

We are fucked.

>>50638124
even then, dont you think that during the months of fight the governements will arm the citizen like in the US ?

it surely is much easier to go throught 1 billions of naked indians than 300 millions of armed americans ?

It wont be over in 1 afternoon so does that let us any chance whatsoever?

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>>50638165

Nigga just stop orks decimate armies in the 41st millennium.

Not to mention you gave them fucking Stompas.looted tanks, and what ever ships they bought we do not even have passable space craft compared to ork engineering you also gave them "planes"


I for one welcome our new ork overlords

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>>50638004
>CAN WE WIN ?

the problem as I see it is that the orks will arrive in a cohesive force wherever in the world that they want, considering they are just looking for a fight they'll probably drop where there is the biggest concentration of population. It takes weeks for us to arrive in any decent concentration to pose any meaningful resistance - and there's no chance whatsoever that any force on earth is going to use bombs on their own country in those precious first moments. after that we're fucked as the orks spread out to find something to krump and the infestation takes hold.
>>mfw yearly ork waaghs in india/china even if we manage to kill the actual invasion force of.

not to mention that even IF we manage to beat the first wave, we have no method of taking out spaceships so they can just hang about until there's enough orks again. in fact, killing of the first wave will probably be seen as enticement for those orks that remained in orbit to come down as well.

>>50638004
Orks are a fucking genetically engineered weaponized biosphere.

One ork dying = spores = you can never remove the orkoid species from the planet.

The best we can hope for is to keep them in the feral phase for the long term.

>>50638780
How many orks would be a good match then ?
is it fucked even with like 10 orks because of the fungus ?

>>50638004
Welp I'm becoming a Digga. Which is funny because I'm an ausfag.

>>50639149
Maybe a hundred. Providing we set them on fire. But yeah we're probably fucked. Even on worlds where they do beat back and burn all the greenies they still hang around.

>>50638004
>Orks fighting humans
>Any outcome other than the Orks losing
Have you even read 40k?

>Digganobs
>unnagrounders

>>50638004
Yes. Between the munitions stockpile every country has slowly accumulated and assuming there is some cooperation between countries then yea. And thermoberic bombs

>>50638124
I've run the math, using males alone, approximately 30% of the Earth's population is able to enter uniform if required.

>>50638004
To put it mildly, the orks wouldn't achieve much. Lay waste to a country or two, depending on where they land, but will be quickly demolished by the world's militaries, especially if they have manpower and resources dumped into them. The longterm effects would be containable. Occasionally orks would grow in enough numbers to warrant destruction, but for the most part, wouldn't be an issue.

Remember, the Orks will crash their Rokk on Earth.

Assuming there are 12 million Orks on that Rokk, the dust caused by that Rokk will blot out the sun for hundreds or thousands of years.

Humanity is already fucked and inches away from extinction, and the Orks haven't even left their Rokk yet.

>>50640423
Longterm effect containable?

Are you retarded?

The Imperium nukes and firebombs entire Ork spore infested continents, TO KEEP IT UNDER CONTROL, not even to get rid of it.

>>50638165
>even then, dont you think that during the months of fight the governements will arm the citizen like in the US ?
Good luck protecting critical infrastructure and manufacturing output against a space based force of 12 millions for that amount of time.

>>50640423
>The longterm effects would be containable.
>implying berzerk brutes growing from mushrooms wouldn't completely change earth culture.
What are you gonna do when an ork attack a farmer? Put a squad next to each tractor?
I remind you that those things can survive losing limbs and even the head in some cases. Old Joe with his assault rifle ain't gonna survive that.

>>50638073
Yes, 12 million is actually pathetically small. Over 60 million soldiers served in WW1. That's with a population a fifth of what we have now. The world currently has 27 million soldiers.

Furthermore, depending on the nation, about 20-30% of the population is fit for military service. During World War Two, 10% of America's population served in uniform. 10% of 300 million is 30 million men in uniform. Notice I said men. You could double that for women, if it were truly necessary. 60 million people in uniform. And that's in a country that wasn't facing extinction and had fairly strict standards. Germany, facing annihilation, utilized approximately 30% of its total population, again almost only men. You start to realize how absurd the number of people under arms there could be if truly necessary. If we applied that to the US, that's 200 million possible combatants. And that's just the US.

And that's failing to account for the fact that current technology exists and is in general superior to 40k.

>>50640464
40k is retarded at parts, but if you look at most places it has the occasional ork attack, and then maybe tribal orks start getting uppity and in sufficient numbers to warrant the PDF coming through and clearing them out.

>>50640553
>What are you gonna do when an ork attack a farmer? Put a squad next to each tractor?
The farmer gets his neighbors and they shoot the tribal ork that has AT BEST an extremely shitty firearm. Then maybe more orks show up, and the police or local military forces respond in force, destroy that band of orks, leaving only a few scattered orks here and there. Then the process repeats.

And yes, modern firearms should work against orks just fine. Need more than a few rounds to do the job properly, but luckily that's not as big a challenge as 40k makes it out to be.

>>50638004
>12 million orcs shitting out spores across what ever continent they crashed on
In the grim dark future of earth there is only war.

>>50640608
Like I said, Orks will lose of course. They aren't going to beat humans

>>50640608
And how would you detect an ork before it attacks you? It isn't some wild animal, it's a (relatively) intelligent killer that is born adult.
Even if you manage to shoot it before it jumps on you half the time, you'll have a massive rural exodus, with only fortified villages remaining.
So overcrowded cities+agriculture plummeting=massive disaster in a vry short amount of time.

>>50640856
Maybe because orks don't tend to be very good at stealth and those that are are the exception rather than the rule? And let's say that this ork DOES kill the farmer. Eventually, someone finds the body, realizes there's an ork or multiple orks in the area, the local farmers band together in their militia, call in local police as well, and they go ork hunting. Kill the ork or orks. Really, it's less of an issue than large predators were 200 years ago.

>>50640405
Implying Africa wouldn't join the Orcs. That said, if their forces aren't to dispersed they could be easily nuked into oblivion.

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>there are people in this thread who think the result will be anythin other than earth getting BTFO

>>50640464
The Imperium has pathetic technological levels. We would develop a fungicide to deal with the Ork spores in no time. Heck, maybe we already have effective fungicides.

>implying we do not instantly lose because ork spores

this thread is utterly pointless

We're fucked as our Psykers have only recently become active and they're all too busy shitposting on /pol/ to help

>>50640581
But how quickly can those numbers be replaced? An Ork just has to scratch his chin, and a few days later a fresh adult Ork will pop out of the ground where he was standing. This Ork doesn't need any training to be combat-ready (or what counts as "combat-ready" among Orkz), and is liable to possess other advanced knowledge like how to build guns, how to build simple vehicles, how to brew biofuel, how to mix up explosives, and other skills valuable to an army. And that's assuming they're not a Mek, in which case their innate knowledge will be even more advanced.

Meanwhile, it takes at least 10 years for a human to grow into a decent soldier, and even longer to become a good one. And that's just if you want people who can hold guns and shoot straight - training specialists will take even longer, and cost even more resources. There's a good reason why the Imperium has to ship billions of troops into Ork-infested warzones - there's no way most local populations could ever stand up to them.

>>50640955
Orkz can rapidly adapt to fungicides.

>>50640941
I think they think that current day earth is on the same tech level as 40k earth. While the majority of 40k people think tech is magic. That tech is thousands of years more advanced than our own. And Orks were building gargants and roks while we where smashing two stones together and saying ug.

>>50640955
No the Imperium has great tech levels. Its just that the majority has no real idea how most of it works. case in point the cheapest weapon used by the Imperioums forces fires fucking lasers.

>>50640990
Heck, I don't think you can even beat an unarmed ork while you wield a 9mm

>>50640990
You vastly overstate how fast orks reproduce. In lore, long term ork infestations are dangerous because after decades or centuries, the orks will have high numbers due to the number of spores spread around by an ork, not because they mature after days. This is why infestations are centuries long affairs. Also in lore, tribal orks tend not to have many firearms, and when they do, they're EXTREMELY shitty sluggas. And that's saying something.

The real danger of orks is their high initial numbers upon landing. Considering that this particular case only has 12 million orks, honestly, the orks don't have a chance. That isn't actually that high a number. No, WAAAAGHs are dangerous because they consist of billions or trillions of orks. What you people consistently fail to understand is the scale of 40k.

So yes, the initial ork invasion will be crushed by superior numbers, superior organization, and far superior technology in all but a handful of cases. The ork infestation will continue for hundreds of years, but if the world is on its toes, those orks that do grow back on earth will be scattered and relatively few in number or stuck in a few holdout areas, such as the Amazon. Not to mention they'd lack the firepower they once had.

And most worlds that have beaten the initial invasion keep the ork population on their world in check with just their PDF. That's been a part of the lore for longer than I've played the game, matey.

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>>50640955
>The Imperium has pathetic technological levels.
You're talking out of your ass.

On the subject of fungicides, they do have selective virus bombs.

>>50641045
In the vast majority of the Imperium, tech is nowhere near what it is currently. There are some exceptions, but those are the exception and not the rule. Not to mention that something like the Leman Russ has had its stats revealed as is inferior to current tanks by a wide margin. Not to mention the far superior aircraft. Or sights. In 40k, more advanced tech than now is RARE.

The lasers are not significantly more powerful than existing hand weaponry. Do note that an autogun has the same strength as a lasgun.

>>50641109
And you overstate how powerful modern weaponry is compared to 40k weaponry. Not to mention them popping up on their space ship, and having stompas.
>>50641132
The problem with Geedubs lore is that their is so much hearsay mixed in with it. For instance The auto gun had its stats reveled as superior to modern rifles by a significant margin. But I'm not sure if that's something Geedubs came out with or some random fan. The same goes for your leman russ example. I had heard that it was just something people pulled out of their ass.

>>50641181
>And you overstate how powerful modern weaponry is compared to 40k weaponry.
I'm really not. Modern weaponry is very powerful. The problem is fucks like you that have no idea how powerful they are or why that is. The space ship is the only real problem that the orks possess. That by itself is unlikely to take over the world. Leave parts of it a ruin, perhaps.

>For instance The auto gun had its stats reveled as superior to modern rifles by a significant margin
Bullshit~

>The same goes for your leman russ example. I had heard that it was just something people pulled out of their ass.
Nope, that was an actual thing. Imperial Armor or Forge World or somesuch. The Leman Russ is only half as fast as an Abrams (with its governor on) and the armor thicknesses were pitiful. This is especially true if they were in eRHA, which is considered the standard for armor measurement, as the actual composition of the armor plays a large part in effectiveness. However, the material used would need to be at least 4x more effective to match estimated effective thickness of the M1A1 (HA), a 25+ year old design which has had its armor increased since then. From everything that we understand, the Abrams should have FAR superior FCS than the Leman Russ, meaning far higher hit rates.

>>50641037
Even if that were true, orks regularly fight enemies with far greater tech than modern earth like eldar, necrons and tau.
They also think that modern Earth can quickly and easily divert all of its military resources into this campaign without suffering at all. We'd be draining all of our resources into a war with casualties far in excess to any previous war, and wih no way of gaining anything other than another day of survival.

>>50641301

See: >>50641129

>>50638004
>Day 1
The orks fleet drop out of warp near Saturn and power through the system at a speed that makes our best rockets look like turtles.

NASA's sensors for large orbital objects simply panick, as the trajectory of those "small asteroids" is damned weird.
Report is sent to the white house, informing it of a potential impact event.

Nations across the world start picking weird radio signals, as if thousands of drunk cockney soccer fans were chanting.

>Day 2
The fleet barely stops in orbit.
As it appears that rocks are going to hit the major cities, annihilating millions of people in the impact, hasty evacuations are organized.
It fails, because one cannot evacuate New Delhi or Tokyo in just five short hours.

Close to 100 millions people die in the impact itself. The rest of the population is either fleeing or being slaughtered as the teleporters of the rocks activate, vomiting hundred of thousands of boyz in the hearth of urban areas.

>Day 3
That shit about the USA being capable of projecting forces anywhere in 48 hours ?

That proved closed enough to the truth, if only for the Air Force.
Modern jet fighters are engaging the ork fighters, using beyond visual range missiles which, because ork planes have rather LARGE metalic signature, hit most of the time.

NATO countries, along with Japan, SK and a few other countries aligned with the USA, are able to gain air superiority quickly and, from there, to provide close air support to their troops.
Not that it helps much : there are millions of orks fighting in urban areas still packed with wounded civilians.
USA and its allies hesitate to use heavy weapons on their own civilians and therefor, the fight on the ground is up close and personal, as the orks love it.

(cont)

>>50639186
Nice, finally we will have reason to build the aussies

>>50641109
>>50641301
Ork technology blows modern human technology out of the fucking water, are you retarded? Just because they don't understand how it works or because it's ramshackle doesn't mean it's worse than ours. Until we get teleporters, force fields, tractor beams, weaponized asteroids, and basic infantry weapons that blow fist to basketball sized holes in people, sit the fuck down with your HFY wank

>>50641301
We already know the Leman Russ can shrug off bolts of plasma that is THE TEMPERATURE OF THE SUN like it's nothing.

When does a couple dozen mm of eRHA do that?

>>50641301
Yeah, and it's a known fact that GW can't into numbers. Like at all.
They contradict themselves and have absurd figures most of the time (like macro weapons; in one book they have a energy output of 10^18 J, in another it's 10^1).

In a setting where people can hipshoot autocannons in full auto (see necromunda and WD minis), survive hefty doses of radiation and stop automated blast doors with their bare hands, it's reasonable to think that 10 millenia of DAoT gene-engineering resulted in people that are only human in name (and after that you have 15 millenia of survial against a grimdark galaxy, creating abhumans in the process). So I expect weaponry to follow the same path to keep up.

>giving orks spaceships

why does it even matter at this point

>>50641430
>Ork technology blows modern human technology out of the fucking water, are you retarded?
How exactly? Imperiium using WW1 tanks against them and it's works

>>50641430
>knowing what modern technology does is HFY
Mate, orks have some stuff that is high tech for our time. I readily admit that. However, the vast majority of it is not really that different from what we have today, and the stuff that is is not in wide usage, especially not at the small scale we have here. You overestimate the effects that a few flashy things have and ignore the common aspect. Orks are horrendously outmatched technologywise in all but a handful of systems.

And no, shootas and sluggas are really not all that impressive. That sort of technology is possible today, if not particularly useful. Further, similar, more effective weapons are very widely circulated. Your average grenade launcher, for example. In most militaries, at least one of every four men has one. These have much larger booms than a shoota or slugga. And they have the advantage of not being used by orks.

>>50641500
And these same Orks can win battles against Necrons and Tau

>>50641403
>Day 4
Moscow has fallen.
Not that it matter for the russians : they have air superiority too, what with being the second air force in the world, both in quality and quantity.

Exactly five hours after the fall of Moscow, several ICBMs are flying, raining nuclear hell where ork concentration is estimated the largest which, by the way, means the main cities.
Around 10 millions russians die from this alone.
It is deemed an acceptable price for victory.

In a TV announcement relayed across the Internet, Vladimir Putin explain the situation to the population, shed a manly tears for the victims, ask his people to accept the "first of many sacrifices for survival" and then calls for total mobilization.
Every man between 18 and 25 is to report to the nearest military base for incorporation.
Retired pilots are called back.
Old soviet-era military plants are restarted.
Obsolete jets and bombers are undusted.

>Day 5
Japan burns, with JDSF fighting viciously street by street.
Java drowns in blood.
India is a black hole.
North Korea... crossed the DMZ to "liberate their southern brothers from the alien invaders".

>Day 15
Europe's countryside is flooded with refugees.

First known destruction of a Gargant by massive airstrike at the Jordan border.
The poor metal beast never stood a chance.

China announced that its casualties are estimated to be above 200 millions.
PLA forces are estimated to now be above 20 millions men. Though barely trained, they have more than enough fire power to oppose locally the numerically inferior invaders.
A deal is struck with Russia and USA, where China is buying ALL the old jetfighters from their graveyards.

>Day 30
Liberation of London

>>50640882
>militia and farmers
>capable of killing beings that can shrug off lasblasts like they're nothing
Flashlight memes aside, the weapons the IG has in 40k are much more advanced and powerful than our own for the most part. If the orks can survive that, anything except our strongest weapons would be completely ineffective.

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>>50641504
>WOW GUYS LOOK, A GRENADE LAUNCHER, NO ONE IN 40K HAS SEEN SUCH A THING!!!!

>>50641469
>Yeah, and it's a known fact that GW can't into numbers. Like at all.
I'm well aware. That's half the point of what I'm on about. OP says 12 million orks like it's some impressive figure. It's really not. He, like everyone else, has absolutely no idea of the scale that would necessarily be involved if 40k were to be realized as how it is painted in the broad strokes.

As for the second half of your post, I tend to file those under "author has no idea what he's talking about".

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>>50641520
>And these same Orks can win battles against Necrons and Tau
So what? Tau using large robots which very easy target for modern weapon

>>50641540
It merely takes a number of hits to stop an ork. Nothing more.

And yes, militia and farmers should be more than capable of hitting an ork enough times until it stops. If a single guardsman can kill an ork with his lasgun, several farmers could do it.

>>50641550
Grenade launchers are practically ignored in lore (and in game, if my local meta is anything to go by), nor are they ever fielded at the scale they would realistically be. But yes, 40mm HEDP will literally blow an orc to pieces. And we've got a lot of that.

>>50641566
>implying all Tau field are giant robots or event field them as most of their army

you must be really dense, aren't you? Orks have been mentioned before in the fluff winning ranged fights against Tau hovercraft that could easily race circles around an abrams.

>>50641520
By weight of numbers. That's how Orks work. They send absolutely ludicrous numbers at the problem. 12 million is falling way short of that bar.

>>50638004
Knowing love of orks for melee combat and knowing that machineguns can do with an hordes of unarmored enemies who go into melee, I project this will be over really soon.

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>>50641533
>Moscow has fallen.
Ahem...

Bullet caliber like 5.56 and small ones would be inneficient utterly. Large calibers and RPGs would be the most useful.

>>50641576
>practically ignored in lore
how and where

Where in the lore has it ever been indicated that they are a rare sight or are hard to obtain?

Also mentioning in-game meta is completely lulz, considering it's entirely unrelated to the discussion at hand.

>>50641533
This is...surprisingly great, especially about throwing all the decomm'd stuff back into action (insane cost notwithstanding)

Also,
>Having to fight orks primarily in urban warfare
>Moscow falls in spite of superior air support
Somewhere, somehow the Chechens are laughing their tits off throughout

>>50641598
Enough intermediate rounds will do the job just fine. I wouldn't trust my chances with just one rifle, but if you get enough rifles, or a machinegun, it'll definitely do the job. Still would feel better with a full size rifle round.

>>50641583
>Orks have been mentioned before in the fluff winning ranged fights against Tau
Well yeah since ranged fight is all what orks can do.

>>50641533
>Day 100
The Waaagh is losing steam.
It is winning most battles on the ground.
For every ork that dies, there are an average of 4 human soldiers that die. The civilian casualties are even worse.

And therefor, it is a success for Mankind :
They lost about 2 billion people in the last 3 months but the orks are down to a few thousands.

Humanity won by attrition.
Sure, new orks will soon pop from the ground by the thousands but still, the brunt of the attack has been dealt.

NATO is in full gear now, having finally pull the glove off regarding urban warfare.
Russia has close to 10 millions men and women in arms.
China is up to 30 millions and decided to stop there.
India and Pakistan are working together, bringing an additionnal 500 divisions to the fight.

And Japan... the once-shy-and-weak japanese proved that you don't have to be manly to be an effective soldier : just follow orders from your hierarchy fanatically. And they are good at that.
Sure, close to half their population is dead but the other half is already rebuilding on the ruins while hunting orks at the same time.

There is still the problem of the ork fleet above.
World leaders are aware that orbital bombing is now the biggest threat.
They are working on it.

>>50641576
>It merely takes a number of hits to stop an ork. Nothing more.
And how many is that?
>If a single guardsman can kill an ork with his lasgun, several farmers could do it.
A single guardsman can't normally kill an ork with his lasgun, though, unless he's either lucky or at a long distance. This is why they send in a shitload of guardsmen.

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>>50641585
That's incorrect. There have been several cases (such as the war of Dakka) where the Ork's ranged equipment and firepower proved superior to the Tau and allowed them to achieve victory. Furthermore, the lore has made a number of points about how many ork commanders possess the cunning and tactics to outpace and outmaneuver Imperial, Tau, and Eldar forces.

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>>50641595
AA missiles won't do much against something like this falling on the city and then 'porting boyz in.

>>50641613
Lolwut? Orks are mentioned getting into melee all the time

>>50641601
>how and where
As in, nobody ever talks about them or thinks about what they actually do. I think I've read something that included them ONCE. Considering how useful they are and how prevalent they probably should be, very few people ever stop to consider them.

>Also mentioning in-game meta is completely lulz, considering it's entirely unrelated to the discussion at hand.
That's why it's in parentheses. Because it's an aside within an aside.

You can ignore the actual argument in that post, though.

Orks have working teleporter technology. Orks have war machines with city-leveling munitions and Power Field which survive city-leveling return fire. Orks can fire weapons from their spaceships to simply selectively destroy any targets bothering them. Orks can create Force Fields powerful enough that asteroid impacts directly on the same field of battle as them do not harm or affect any of their troops within their shield.

In addition to this Orks have their Weirdboyz, psychic, and even virulent Tyranid Toxins, pathogens and such have been unable to eradicate them so far.

Furthermore Mega-Armour is comparable to Terminator Armour in terms of endurance.

>>50641644
>Orks are mentioned getting into melee all the time
>he felt to "orks are melee race"-meme
Tee-hee

>>50641655
>orks are not a melee race
nigga what

are we talking rules or fluff here, explain yourself

>>50641655
and why aren't they?

>>50641668
Initiative 2

Furthermore assuming Orks munitions are worse than modern firearms is ridiculous.

By stint of being a scifi setting the Lasgun and Autogun can already be presumed superior to all modern firearms and it only has a Str of 3. By contrast Ork weapons have a Str of 4 meaning that they most likely translate as portable, rapid-firing heavy canons compared to modern assault rifles.

Furthermore, as stated above but no-one seemed to notice, Plasma produces energy bolts far more potent than anything we can produce today, and Battlewagons, Leman Russ' and such shrug off Plasma Cannon shots to their Front Armour

We then also have the Orks possession of Roks, alone enough to end the fight quite convincingly.

Traktor Teknology also allows Orks to largely innure themselves to modern-day air attacks and to simply throw Asteroids at their leisure into Earth.

>>50641647
What argument? Your inherent premise is so vague that there's almost nothing to argue against.
Your point is basically "WELL I DIDNT READ ANYTHING ABOUT GRENADE LAUNCHERS, SO THEY MUST NOT EVEN BE THERE!"

Most 40k books don't go into detail about how people eat or shit, even though that's a pretty damn important part of people being able to function. Should we assume taking a dump and eating horeshit is a rare event in 40k?

My goodness the hard-on for humans winning everything has gotten bad on /tg/

>>50641729
and with that, completely ridiculous assumptions about how every human is fanatical, prime combatant ready to lay down their life in the front line.

>>50641626
>And how many is that?
However many it takes. Several rounds is likely. Depends on where they hit and what those hits do.

>A single guardsman can't normally kill an ork with his lasgun, though, unless he's either lucky or at a long distance. This is why they send in a shitload of guardsmen.
I mean, there are plenty of references to this not being the case. Orks die to lasgun fire all the time. The problem is that there are just so goddamn many of them, usually bearing down on you ready to bash your skull in.

As a related topic that deserves discussion, let's talk about distance for a moment. What is generally considered the edge of effective range of a rifleman against a point target is 300 meters. This is roughly how far the average bloke can hit a single man shaped target at a decent chance. As it turns out, 300 meters is a very long way to run, and if you're an ork spraying automatic fire, you're not likely going to hit much of anything at that distance. However, do note that I said point fire. Area fire goes out well beyond that, and considering standard ork tactics, is going to be very relevant. Thus, you're going to be engaged effectively by even intermediate cartidged rifles at 500 meters. And yes, engagement distances will likely start at least 300 meters away. In fact, I'd label that as extremely close range.

>>50641630
Those are the exception rather than the rule. Most ork forces are nowhere near that, and are generally combined with the hubris of the opposing commander keeping them blind to what the orks are doing.

Orks are going to have shorter effective range on their weapons. They just have a lot of them and thus even when they DO fire at long range, if they mass enough of them they can have effect even then.

Once again, that's just how orks do things. They toss LOTS of whatever at the problem.

>>50641699
If they have the patience for it, sure they can.
But mostly, orks are dropping the roks themselves, full with a small garrison and teleporters.
Then it just becomes a combination of instant fortress and landing zone.

They can understand the strategic value of a good orbital bombing but don't expect them to stay at it for weeks :
They'll send what they have on hand and then rush down there to have some real fun.

>>50641700
>what argument
I quite clearly mentioned that they aren't shown often at all in any 40k related anything, really. But that wasn't my point.

My point was that grenade launchers are not even considered by most anywhere you look at and that in this world, they happen to be extremely widespread (far more so than 40k), and that 40mm HEDP will indeed splatter an ork. Was that so hard?

>>50641762
You realize there are Orks who have literally just smashed asteroids into planets to blow it up? No landing or anything.

Then there was another one who decided to just suck one up into a Shokk Attack Gun

Then we have Attack Moons who just gravity whipped planets to chunks.

Lots of Orks can just bombard a planet

>>50641762
You forgot the Power Fields which survive city-annhilating blasts and meteor impacts as well.

>>50641729
Mate, it's just logic. Run the numbers. Earth has more soldiers than the orks do at the present time. There are far more humans that are able to be tossed in the fight than even that. Earth has not inconsiderable technology, much of it easily being able to take on most anything the Orks have. With that all in mind, the situation that OP provided, with only 12 million orks invading, is quite clearly going to be a victory for Earth. If you want the orks to win, you have to throw more of them in the fight. A hundred times more.

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>>50641773
The Tauros and Goliath Trucks are barely mentioned in lore either, yet they are stated as extremely common vehicles. And hell, there would be plenty of useful applications for both of these vehicles in the battlefield, but their presence is almost never touched upon. Just because you might not be seeing them a lot in bumfuck BL novels doesnt mean they aren't there dumb-ass.

You're a dense motherfucker, y'know that?

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>>50641773
>(far more so than 40k)
LOLWUT NIGGA

SOURCES PLEASEEEEE

>>50641806
Because sheer numbers is all it takes to win wars mirite?

M8, the orks don't even have to land on the planet and they'll win. Nuke nation's capitals as they please, watch as Earth begs for mercy, don't listen anyway and continue the slaughter.

>>50638216
This pic gave me an idea.
Why not paint ourselves in colors that orks see as orky/dangerous?

>>50641813
Once again, completely missing the point. Comical.

>>50641822
The Imperial Guard Codex seems to mention that in a 10 man squad, there can be 1 special weapon and 1 heavy weapon. This means at MOST there is one grenade launcher in a squad. Contrast this to the 9 man US Army squad. That has two grenade launchers minimum. You might even see up to five per squad, if in addition to the grenadiers both
teamleaders and the squad leader carry them. In most other armed forces that I know the organization of, it's generally at least two per squad.

While yes, the codex has the Veteran Squad, which could have three per squad, these are supposed to be the veterans and thus far fewer in number.

>>50641806
Even without the tech edge, humans are just too numerous.

We have over 100 millions people being born each year.
The most intense war we ever saw was WW2, with about 10 millions deads per year, meaning it barely slowed population growth.

The worst part of an ork invasion would be the initial orbital bombing and asorted mass destruction strikes.

But the orks themselves ? Once on the ground, they are just going to die to attrition.
Even if we lost 10 humans for each ork, we would not feel it as a species.

A small Waaagh could wipe out our main cities from orbit and then go down for mopping up.
But even then, there would be billions of humans left, including most of our armed forces, fleets, airforces and nuclear power.

That's not even going into chemical weapons, which can be manufactured in a few months with a two-hundred years old technology if needed.
It might not be that effective against the orks because of their physiology... but then you realize that they have no NBC gear just because of that physiology.
So if we cook up something nasty enough, it's going to decimate any pocket of troops.

>>50641832
>Because sheer numbers is all it takes to win wars mirite?
It certainly helps. Remember, we're talking about orks, whose entire schtick is they're supposed to be the ones outnumbering their foe.

>M8, the orks don't even have to land on the planet and they'll win. Nuke nation's capitals as they please, watch as Earth begs for mercy, don't listen anyway and continue the slaughter.
That's not very orky of them. As the OP specified "standard invasion tactics", the orks are going to land to get into the fight one way or another. Not to mention that's probably what they'd be doing anyways, unless they had something that could make the planet go boom and wanted to use that. Even that is an extreme rarity.

>>50641868
>This means at MOST there is one grenade launcher in a squad.

How retarded can you be? You go on to call me missing the point, and then you attempt to pull shit out of your ass by assuming TT army list restrictions are hard rules for the lore.

Hey, dumbass, did you know that the lore doesn't have to abide by Army list restrictions? There aren't options for aux. grenade launchers in the list, but those still find their way into the guard. The Sgts. have to take a chain-sword and laspistol, but the DKoK list they can take lasguns. This doesn't mean the regular Guard has some doctrinal difference that forbids them from taking lasguns as compared to Death Korps (In fact the Korps, with their greater leaning towards melee in training, would make more sense to have mandatory chainswords!)

>>50641132
>Not to mention that something like the Leman Russ has had its stats revealed as is inferior to current tanks by a wide margin.

This has been retconned out of canon for quite some time.

40K tech is better than ours. Imperial tech, however, is static. They don't create new, practical methods for dealing with problems, they just apply more of what they have. So it's entirely possible that we could create a fungicide that deals with orks, as the Imperium pretty much doesn't try - it just firebombs everything on a massive scale because fuck finding new solutions, that involves more paperwork, and they can just ship a new population in to exploit the planet they've bombed to shit anyway.

>>50641892
>The Imperial Guard Codex seems to mention that in a 10 man squad, there can be 1 special weapon and 1 heavy weapon. This means at MOST there is one grenade launcher in a squad.

the only reason versus threads even last this long is because dyslexic fuckshits forgot where the lore ended and the rules began

>>50638004
If we don't nuke Orks landing zones we are shrekt.
If we do we might stand a chance with fungi infestation.

>>50641915
>>50641930
Well, it seems to me like it's a fairly good thing to base our discussion off of, but if you want to stick your head in the sand because it wasn't the answer you wanted, you can cede the point. Or are you telling me that the average Imperial Guard squad has three or more grenade launchers per squad, and why haven't we ever seen this in any piece of lore?

Feel free to provide a counterpoint if you want.

>>50641929
>40K tech is better than ours.
Many pieces of 40k tech is better than ours. Is all of it? In many areas, especially those involving computing, the answer would seem to be no. Remember, much if not most of the truly high tech stuff is very rare.

>>50642016
Oh, sure, our computing is better.

Pretty much all their weaponry is far more advanced than ours though.

File: 99550102050_ChaosRenegadeMilitiaVehicleCrew02.jpg (24KB, 600x620px) Image search: [Google]

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>>50641976
>Well, it seems to me like it's a fairly good thing to base our discussion off of

why

it seems you're been obstinate about using army list restrictions because you literally can't be arsed to find out anything for yourself in the actual fluff.

>prove a counterpoint

its almost fucking embarrasing for me to do this, considering that even a cursory experience with any aspect of 40k is enough to do this but here goes:
pic related

here we see a tank crew carrying some weapons, such as plasma pistols and rifles.

unfortunately tank crews cannot take weapons or use them in either the renegade list or IG list. And yet, here we see them using guns.

it's almost as if TT is an abstraction

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>>50641915
>gimme a source
>THAT ONE DOESNT COUNT
mfw

>>50642046
>why
Because it's literally the best place we have to go off of.

>it seems you're been obstinate about using army list restrictions because you literally can't be arsed to find out anything for yourself in the actual fluff.
I'm not being obstinate about it. I literally used it once. I just figure that it's a good place to start our discussion. Apparently you disagree. Feel free to explain why that is and what you offer as an alternative. Or you could cede the point because you lack a counterargument to it. Please, go ahead. Explain to me how you think it is. It's not like I didn't ask you to do that in the last post and you ignored that or anything.

>>50642096
>Feel free to explain why that is and what you offer as an alternative

>it's almost as if TT is an abstraction
>it's almost as if TT is an abstraction
>it's almost as if TT is an abstraction
>it's almost as if TT is an abstraction
>it's almost as if TT is an abstraction

do i need to repeat?

>>50642111
What part of "give a better source if you don't want to use this one" don't you understand?

>>50641623
Come on, what's next?

>>50641965
The landing zones can simply be shielded in the same Power Fields which survive meteor blasts. Simple.

Battlewagons can literally survive Plasma Cannon shots, they'll be largely immune to all non-Nuke munitions.

Ork Force Fields on Gargants and Roks render Nuclear munitions largely irrelevant.

Then in addition the Ork's possess Teleporters allowing them to easily strike at whatever targets they want, including airfields and silos, with no way to organize a defense.

>>50642210
So just nuke until they overload.

>>50642228
How do you even know they'll overload? Not to mention Orks can layer multiple Power Fields over the same zone if need be

>>50642119
He gave you a better source. He showed you that the tabletop is an abstraction.

>>50638004
>Everyone agrees to lure them to Australia
>Engage them at natural boundaries
>Wipe them out with air superiority
>Purge the already desolate landscape to cleanse the world of any trace
>Mine the ocean
>Patrol its coast
Nothing's getting out alive

>>50642228
I don't think Orks are very scared of nukes considering their shields regularly have to stop munitions which crack continents in half.

Not to mention that they have moons which literally pulverize planets into debris

>>50642035
>Pretty much all their weaponry is far more advanced than ours though
Not at all.
Fucking BOW is 1d10 damage, Lasgun is 1d10+3 autogun is also 1d10+3, compare bow to modern rifle.
Modern rifle haw power of lasgun.
Source: Dark Heresy corebook

>>50642297
Using crunch for determining this is kinda dumb.

The fluff is a far better indicator for what its meant to translate into in real world terms

>>50642322
this has GOT to be bait, right?

>>50641744
Yeah but that's always been part of HFY stuff, this weird belief that humans are all maniacl killing machines who will rather die than accept any alternative and stuff.

HFY tends to really not even understand how humans behave at all.

>>50642333
No, why? I think using the crunch of a game designed to allow different sides to partake in equalish battles for determining things about the fluff of the world is dumb.

The fluff explains what things are meant to be like within their world whilst the Crunch simply approximates a set of rules to permit players to equalish enjoy combat.

>>50641744
Men have fought in every war ever. Why wouldn't they fight against literal alien invaders?

>>50642333
Not him, but he's right.

Crunch is supposed to be balanced and somewhat abstract. Fluff is description we can compare with out "real life" conditions.

>>50642322
When the fluff and the crunch both agree, why would you continue to argue against it?

If, in say some other case, the crunch is the best fluff that exists, why would you not use the crunch to explain things?

>>50642363
...because never has the majority of the human race ever taken part in a war? Duh?

Because the percentage of people fighting is always very small compared to the percentage not fighting? Duh?

Because very rarely, if ever, has a population of humans been willing to do anything close to fighting till they were all dead rather than surrender, accept slavery or conquest? Duh?

Besides who said they wouldn't fight Invaders? HFY's problem is the belief that the entire species are fatalistic suicide warriors.

>>50642394
>when the fluff and the crunch both agree, why would you continue to argue against it?

but where in this instance?

You have no fucking evidence that an autogun round does the exact amount of damage as a lasgun lore-wise

>>50642394
When do Fluff and Crunch agree? How do you even determine that? Crunch abstractly reduces things to Inches and dice rolls, you can't actually compare it to the Fluff.

Honestly using the Crunch is silly since, if you're determined too, then I won't accept any argument you make on it until you show me the GW approved stats for a M-16 or AK-74, since we don't have the Crunch Data for it.

Fluff is the obvious indicator for what the world's actually meant to be like. Hence Orks in Fluff being far more physically powerful than a human but in Crunch just having the same Str of 3. Or in your weird system are you assuming Orks are only as physically powerful as a human?

>>50642336
In fairness, we don't really have a baseline reaction that civilian *should* have to compare to - we haven't particularly had an overwhelming invasion of a developed nation for quite a long time. The few cases you could argue with (which, let's face it, are all in the gulf) don't take into account the slow unwieldiness of a democracy; the closest comparison most writers have to hand is the britbongs and their Blitz Spirit. It seems like that kinda stoic defiance is what a lot of HFY is based on, but it completely ignores how cynical and jaded mass media and historical experience (especially Korea and Nam) have made us compared to ye olden days of FOR KING AND COUNTRY

>>50638004
Earth wins at first but then the spores grow and fuck us up
We simply lack the resources to stop ork reproduction

>>50642439
The problem is, even taking that into account, none of the real world reactions compare to the sweeping HFY generalizations which cast every member of the species as the most die-hard of resistance fighters willing to die rather than accept defeat.

Nations in the vast majority of cases, and the majority of humans, have always accepted slavery and defeat to fighting till every last member of the polity is dead.

>>50642356
>>50642364
Backflipping terminators and pants-on-head retarded power level Inconsistency notwithstanding?

>>50642096
>I only used it once guys!
>quick, now let me keep doing it!

>>50642413
Your arguments are literally shit. First and second points literally don't mean anything.

Third point is partially valid, but I would like to mention that there have been plenty of occasions in history where very large percentages of population have fought till they were all dead. I would also hasten to point out that never before has a war been fought against aliens who would just as soon eat you as enslave you. It might just change people's opinions.

Your problem is assuming that people wouldn't fight. Even assuming only 10% of Earth's population had the nerve to fight, that's enough.

Your problem is assuming this is HFY. This isn't. With sufficient numbers, the orks would succeed. The only problem is that in the scenario provided, the orks do not have anywhere close to sufficient numbers.

>>50642363
see >>50642439 and >>50642460


HFY is just "You see those isolated heroic last stands that people get VCs and MoHs for? Yeah, in space, everyone is like that. Obviously."

>>50642427
Other than the fact that the stated reason the lasgun is used is not because it is more effective, but because it is more logistically viable.
>>50642429
In this case, I'm talking of the autogun equalling the lasgun.

Fun fact, there used to be GW approved stats for a 1911-clone. No clue where those got off to.

>>50642503
Who said people aren't willing to fight? You're literally just making things up now to have an argument against an imaginary opponent.

What I said was HFY's contention that ALL humans are suicidal die-hards in the face of an Alien Invasion is silly.

And no the Orks will win by simple use of space ships, Roks, Powerfields, Tanks which can survive direct hits from Plasma Bolts with insanely high temperature, working teleporters and the ability to use gravitational weapons to literally cause planets to break apart into debris. Numbers really don't matter.

>>50642519
Yeah which is (just one) of my problems with HFY. It takes what is literally rare occurence and then, somewhere down the line, decided this was something all humans do always.

HFY just comes across to me like a weird masturbatory fantasy to stroke one's 'racial' ego (whatever that is) in bizarre and abstract manner. I just don't see any appeal to it at all. It's like literally trying to write a Mary Sue race which, I would hope, most people would agree is poor story telling.

>>50642535
Fun fact changes nothing of the point

>>50642519
Who said anything about HFY other than you trying to denigrate this because you don't like that the numbers work out the way they do. There's no "last stand heroics" about this. It's just cold hard math. If we were doing HFY medal worthy heroics, I'd say that every human is worth five orks or some bullshit. I'm not. I'm saying that humanity has far more men to throw into the fight against an existential threat. Unless an ork is worth a hundred men, even assuming only historically plausible percentages of population fought and died, that still means Earth will still come out on top.

>>50642503
>You arguments are literally shit.
>Even assuming only 10% of Earth's population had the nerve to fight, that's enough.

You vastly, vastly underestimate how jaded an sick the general population is to war. How many people do you know would want to fight in the middle east right now if you gave them the chance, even if you claimed it was to make everyone safer? Now remember the brutality and futility (perceived or real) of fighting orks. And remember that IG are the top end of PDF forces and STILL get ground down into despair - what about your average Joe from down the street who's just been conscripted into your HFY defence force?

>>50642615
In a weird reverse of norms this is simply pointless, this numbers game. The Orks simply have too powerful technology to lose in this case.

All their important assets can be protected behind Power Fields. They can teleport Strike all our important assets. They can use Psychic, against which we have no defense, and through simple application of Orbital Bombardment and Gravity Weapons they can destroy any troublesome region of the earth.

Furthermore they've got Tanks far more durable than anything we can produce, can survive in far more hostiel enviroments and loot anything they come across. After the first Teleporter strikes at some nuke silos the Orks will simply convert said Nukes into even more munitions for themselves to use

>>50642580
I mean, the guy who I was responding to just did.

In response to >>50642363, >>50642413 was stated. All of these are reasons why humans wouldn't fight against alien invades. That's literally what this post is saying.

>>50641129
Tau reviewed Imperial weaponry and saw most of it is technologically inferior.

Eldar and Necrons both comment how humans are at caveman levels of technology. Some Necrons even go as far as not considering the 40K humans sentient since they are utterly primitive.

>>50642535
Fun fact: In Dark Heresy a standard human punch is able to topple concrete bunkers and penerate tank armor through righteous fury.

Can we assume that every human in the Imperium are supermen then, who are capable of incredible feats of strength?

>>50642646
No he didn't. The guy you responded too just said that the majority of the species was unlikely to fight. What are you reading? Like the majority of a population never fights in a war. The number of combatants is always small compared to the number of non-combatants

>>50642668
>the most technologically superior races in the galaxy comment on their technological superiority
>a comparison which has nothing to do with the argument on hand

oh boi

also it should be noted that that image's point is reinforced further by the fact that the main rulebook and rpg's flat out state the superiority of the Imperium compared to the rest of the xenos races, with comments being made about how humanity's control over warp travel far oustripping any other race in the galaxy, and even basic imperial technology miles ahead of races such as the Enoulian and Rak'gol

>>50642668
>Tau consider humans technologically inferior
>Eldar and Necron consider humans technologically inferior
By golly the super-science races who collapse stars, move through time and more consider humans technologically inferior to them.

Clearly the only logical conclusion is the Imperium is more primitive than we are?

>>50642617
>You vastly, vastly underestimate how jaded an sick the general population is to war.
Nope. You vastly overestimate it, if anything. Remember that only 20 years after the horrors of World War 1, those same people who fought it were leading the way through World War 2. Remember, in World War 1, France lost ~4% of its population. Over 12% more were wounded. These were almost all guys who fought on the frontlines, in soulcrushing combat. Remember, it's not just fighting against orks that is scary. ALL combat is scary. Yet they fought. They died. All in what seemed a futile attempt at gaining another few yards, if that. These were men who had been conscripted from their homes to do this. Now add in the fact that they're fighting literal alien invaders. Yes, I'd wager people would fight.

As for whether or not the current populace is jaded of war, I would disagree. I don't think they are. I think they don't have the faintest clue what war actually is. They have been fed the narrative that they are sick of war. They might tire of seeing it on their TV screens. But that's it. But that's neither here nor there.

And as for whether or not people would go to fight in the middle east if called? I guarantee you they would. Not all. Not most. But enough. Starting with all the active duty personnel.

>>50642784
Yeah but if your argument is just 'some people will fight' then fine, no-one's disputing that.

Obviously some small percentage will fight, that's obvious enough that no-one needs to comment on it.

>>50638165
>even then, dont you think that during the months of fight the governements will arm the citizen like in the US ?
>it surely is much easier to go throught 1 billions of naked indians than 300 millions of armed americans ?

Both sides loud, obnoxious and pig-ignorant.

Thank fuck the Orks are green or the rest of the human forces wouldn't be able to tell them apart.

>>50640955
>The Imperium has pathetic technological levels

Yeah, our current real world space armandas and power armour are much better than what the Imperium has....

>>50642640
I disagree with this notion.

The regular ork infantry, who make up the vast majority of their forces, are, in my opinion, outclassed qualitatively by current or near enough troops. All the other fancy stuff in the world can't win them the war.

As for everything else, you vastly overstate their prevalence. Most ork Waaaghs never have any teleporters of any real significance. Orks are also not known for sitting in orbit launching orbital bombardments, nor are they renowned for their usage of gravity weapons.

I also think you overstate the effectiveness of battewagons and understate the effectiveness of modern vehicles. For example, in crunch terms a completely unarmored truck has a decent chance at being unharmed by a plasma shot.

So let's look at your average Waaagh!'s strategy, as is named in the OP. The ship or rock shows up. They bombard a little, then land on the planet and get stuck in. That's about it.

We win. Easily.

Let's see, suppose we pay 10 humans for each dead ork, not much seeing IG can easily achieve better exchange ratios and we have far better air and artillery support than they do. That's only 120 mln dead humans, less than the population of Nigeria. A decade and we'll recoup that.

If we assume extremely slanted ratio of 100:1, that's 1.2 billion. 1 in 6 humans died, a huge hit, but if you look at population growth we produced that many in what, last 50 years? 5 decade population setback is not that big price to pay for all the reverse engineered technologies, seeing of all 40K races orks have by far the easiest one to understand, seeing it can be slapped together by brain dead morons (and don't even start with clap your hands bullshit, if it works next to a blank it will work anywhere, if slightly worse).

As for feral orks, we do actually have scientists, and if Inquisitor with zero medical training can notice spores examining ork corpse (Xenology), then suggest weed killer to deal with them, please, we will never even see any feral orks maturing after a first few outbursts.

>>50642803
My argument is that the Earth has an absolutely insane amount of manpower viable for military service, and history has proven that much of it would indeed fight against a perceived existential threat. 30% of Germany's population was in uniform during WW2.

>>50642612
>>50642671
It's a fun fact for a reason, you fucking autists.

>>50642692
Guy was responding to "Why wouldn't they fight against literal alien invaders?" His response: "because...". Yes, that is literally saying that people wouldn't fight for those very reasons.

>>50642874
I agree with your assessment for ground combat but, as pointed by many people in the thread, there's one tiny detail that make ground combat irrelevant :

They have a fleet and can do orbital bombardment from the other side of the moon if they so wish, flattening most metropolis in a matter of hours/days.

We have a few rusty rockets of rather limited range, with nuclear warheads that are not terribly useful in space vaccum against targets that are meant to whistand macrocanon strikes.

We would win the ground war if they come down without depopulating us too much first.
And we could repopulate in a matter of decades if need be, even if assuming 1+ billion deads.
But that's already two big "IF".

>of all 40K races orks have by far the easiest one to understand, seeing it can be slapped together by brain dead morons
Problem with that is that a fair bit of ork tech is powered by make-belief from ork psychic energies.
It might still teach us a lot, though.

I don't believe the next generations of orks will be a problem :
If they are ferals, then artillery and airstrikes can take care of it easily as soon as they start gathering in high enough number.

>>50642891
Germany is actually a good exemple.
So is the USSR.

The average soviet man fought because :
- Daily life was shitty enough that serving in the army wasn't that much worse in comparison.
- He had a fair amount of patriotism for the Motherland.
- He would be deported if he refused to serve, making his life even shittier.
- He and his family would be shot if he deserted or disobeyed, which is even worse.
- He and his family would be enslaved and eventually exterminated if the Reich won.

That's how it was sold to the population... and it worked.

For Germany, by the end of the war, it was more or less the same mindset :
- If the soviets win, they'll just loot/rape/kill/burn the whole country.
- And even if Germany win, the State would do bad things to us if we just hide until the end of the war.
- Also muh german volk, fatherland, ect...

People might say "hell no" if you ask them to go fight in the Middle East against some local dictator or fanatics, since these guys aren't a real threat to our survival.
It would be different if they had wiped a whole city, actually proved they couldn't be defeated unless everyone did his part and made clear they have NO intention of letting us live.

>>50641790
>You forgot the Power Fields which survive city-annhilating blasts and meteor impacts as well.

The same fields, you moron, that on tabletop offers 5++ save? You know, equivalent of standing behind a tree? Kek.

To imbeciles harping about teleporters constantly - orks DON'T HAVE THESE YOU IDIOTS. That's why their use on Armageddon was such a big shock, because that was one thing Imperium was supposed to posses over orks.

You'd think someone would notice their usage in past 10.000 years and made a note, eh? Or were the defenders of Armageddon so incompetent they failed to register common and reliable technology? Or maybe, just maybe, it's something used only in biggest Waaghs which this scenario definitely isn't?

Ditto for orbital bombardment, ork usual tactic is 'don't bother beside a few pot-shots and just crash the fleet into planet to disembark faster'. Gee, that sure sounds scary.

>>50642784
I'm talking about how people became jaded and cynical AFTER WWII, though. The rise of mass media means that you'll have images of the war in all its glory glory - and given the morale issues in the world wars even when everyone was being egged on by propaganda, you sure as hell wouldn't have crowds at enlistment offices. Yes, many were conscripted from their homes in the past, but in the world wars this was with a lot of pressure from patriotism too; after WWII and especially after the skirmishes of the cold war, people will question if it's necessary - they still do in current wars.

And I'm not talking about enlisted personnel, I'm talking about civilians - go ask your friends and family, and see if you get 1 in 10 - war may be soul crushing, but the bloody gory war up close and personal against orks would hit people a LOT harder than modern warfare does, likely comparable to the world wars or worse. Your current enemies are moose limbs that you throw suppressive fire at and call CAS on, not huge beasts that can tear you limb from limb.

>>50638004
I'd just like to point out that all the geneva convention limitations that are holding us back from going proper crazy in killing each other is null and void against the greenz
and all major powers have stockpiles of gass weapons that would make the holocaust look like a fun family shower park

>>50643055
>if they so wish
but they won't, how hard is it to understand that?
This isn't "humanity vs 12 million aliens with the tech level of orks", this is "humanity vs 12 million orks". If they were as advanced as they are but more pragmatic, theyd orbitally bombard, they'd make massed armour instead of fuckhuge and inefficient walkers, and they'd train their troops.

But these are parodies of cockney football hooligans here, for fucks sake. "Yeah but their tech lets them do this" is a bullshit argument because even in 40k they would have a good chance of fucking over everyone if they didn't stick to "orky" things.

IoM would nuke is from orbit, as would tau and Eldar; chaos would prefer to corrupt us, and necrons would peel the earth without batting an eyelash. But the greenskins would just ride the rok down and start hitting or shoot things, because THATS THE ORKY WAY TO DO IT

>>50642364
>supposed to be balanced and somewhat abstract
It is from DH an rpg that while abstracted wants to simulate the game world in order to create a cohesive narrative. In that narrative lasgun is as good as autogun.

From fluff:
>Autogun:
>While not as commonplace as lasguns in military formations, many local forces rely on these sturdy and inexpensive weapons to defend their home world from threats within or without.
Autoguns are used by military to defend planets from enemies, xeno included, so they are good enough to fight xenos, so rifles are valid option to fight xenos, orcs included.

And no, autoguns are not superior to our weapons. They are low tech weapons, easy to manufacture, they use normal solid rounds. They can't be more powerful as there is limit to how much recoil human's shoulder can withstand.
They may have bigger calibre than NATO, but we can easily manufacture other rifles.
So fluff wise autoguns are similar in power to lasguns and rules reflect this by giving them equal damage.
On side note shotguns are considered more damaging to enemy than lasguns and autoguns.

>>50642503
>Even assuming only 10% of Earth's population had the nerve to fight, that's enough.
That's not so high, pre war armies had mobilization plans for ~10% of population, pre-industrial Prussia managed to put 10% of it's population into standing army.
I think someone mentioned that society begins to fall apart at around 30% of it population mobilized.

That gives humanity 700 million - 2 billion manpower. So main limiter is industrial capacity to arm this people.

At worst we have 60 to 1 numerical advantage.
Mind that in other Warhammer "stronger, more resistant, and bigger than humans" orcs were stomped by barbarian with magic hammer and after that they were regularly stomped by army using blackpowder and swords.

Plus IG was fighting with orcs in melee, so orc is killable by human armed with blade. So having 60:1 advantage we would win.

>>50643407
I specifically said that I thought that civilians weren't sick of war, and that they have no idea what war is in the first place. All they know is that war is bad and they're being told to dislike the conflicts that they are in. Desert Storm was seen as a righteous war. As was Desert Shield. OIF was widely acclaimed. As OIF turned to OEF, that was much less so. But that doesn't matter. The public was never truly sick of war. Not even now. All mass media has done is allowed those who control it to further control public perception. If the people controlling the media wanted a war, there would be little public outcry. Even in an occupation, so long as the public was not made to dislike it, it wouldn't amount to much.

I'm sure you didn't know it, but America has a LONG history of peacekeeping actions in other countries, sometimes for decades. The difference between then and now is that the media is doing its best to get the US out of the conflicts it disagrees with once it realizes that leaving the war is a political issue that will generate votes.

I also think you underestimate the terror of normal war and overestimate the effect orks would have. I personally doubt many orks would even make it into hand to hand in the first place.

>>50643407
12.000.000 of huge beasts that can tear us limb from limb.
And yet, that's punny.

If said huge beasts are spread out across the planet, they'll get overwhelmed by number alone :
Keep in mind : even with 1% of humans under arms, it's still more than 5 to 1 in our favor.
We can afford to lose 1% of our population every year and still see it grow.

If the orks are gathered in a specific region, then that means most of Humanity's industries, manpower and other ressources are untouched.
The orks would blitz easily at first but as soon as the world mobilizes, they would just be contained... because again :
We can afford to lose 60 millions people a year and not see our pool of recruits dwindle.
While each ork that dies won't be replaced before a decade.

Their only hope is a quick victory, blitz-style.
If not, they'll just slowly choke.

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>>50643149
And by "a few pot-shots", you mean city-leveling ammunition travelling faster than the ships that are firing them, of course.

OP specified that it would take a few hours for the orks to travel from Saturn to Earth.

Even assuming the shortest possible distance, that's still 1,4 billion km in less than a day, going from a 0km/h speed.
That's a hell of an acceleration, a hell of a speed... and, if solid slugs are used, a hell of an impact.
Even if they miss by a continent, that's going to hurt.

Pic related :
Your average naval gun in 40K
The small things pulling the chains are humans.
Ammunition are visible too.

>>50643587
This.

People might dislike the idea of war but :
- they are still giving tax dollars for it, which translate in man-hours of work.
- they are still letting their relatives enlist in the army to go fight on the front
- they are still electing presidents that support active military actions
- they aren't demonstrating in the streets by the hundred of thousands asking for peace.

The soldiers aren't going on mutiny, even though it sucks to be stuck in a desert in shittystan.
They still want to get paid to kill strangers and then enjoy said paid once back home.

And all this despite said war not being about the very survival of the species.

Compare with France in WW1, where soldiers did mutiny.
Not to end the war, mind you, but to stop launching pointless suicide assaults.

Compare with Russia and Germany in WW1, where eventually people did get fed up of sacrificing themselves for a war between nobles.
Both countries were hit by a revolution the minute that their enemy suggested that peace was an option.

The orks won't offer peace.
They won't offer mercy.
They'll just kill people and burn cities until they get bored.

This alone should motivate people enough if not to volunteer then at least to not oppose the draft.

>>50639573
Siege of Castellax. Might have been less than 30 CSMs, but they had a planet's worth of pseudo-IG in the form of slave soldiers

>>50641623
>>50641533
>>50641403
You are wrong about nukes.
Someone would start nuking by day 3.

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>>50641748
We may need to change up the small arms currently in use for fighting Orks, but what would we change them to?
Heavy MG's like the M2 seem like they'd do well enough for most vehicles or fixed defenses.

5.56mm and 5.45mm seem like they wouldn't do enough damage against Orks but those and 7.62mm are probably what most countries would have immediately available. Well, 9mm too but if you're using those you're already in trouble.

Would 7.62mm explosive or incendiary rounds work? I've read the Soviets and Fins used some in ww2.

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>>50643777
>Pic related :
>Your average naval gun in 40K
>The small things pulling the chains are humans.
Am I supposed to be impressed by it's size or by inefficient use of manpower?

>>50644042
>this
/thread

40k is pretty inefficient.
Pre-ww2 canons are ridiculous, even to 40k.

>>50644007
>Someone would start nuking by day 3.
Probably Russia and by day 2, tactical use of nuclear weapons is part of Russian war doctrine.

We have shit ton of powerful weapons that we never use due to humanitarian concerns.
In case of alien invasion, Geneva and latter convections do not apply.
So white phosphorus, cluster bombing, chemical warfare, nukes and all other things considered war crimes are used.

Modern military would probably fare better than IG as our armies are fully mechanized, equipment heavy while IG despite all fancy tech still mostly rely on massive manpower without adequate fire support.
I also suspect that most of IG is leg or motorized infantry supported by infantry tanks. While most modern militaries use armoured and mechanized forces as it main fighting force.

>>50644121
40K writers really need to study more on firepower.
It's almost unreal how much the US have in destructive capabilities.
Non-nuclear "normal" bombs with more explosive power than nukes.
Who knows what Russia have in "illegal" weaponry hidden away.

>>50638004
Two words.
Thermobaric bombs

>>50644042
You failed at physics.
And reading comprehension.
Forever.

The Gustav fired at around 800 m/s a 7-tons shell about twice the size of a human.
Still, the resulting explosion was worth at most the equivalent of 500 kg of TNT.

A macro-canon can accelerate a projectile as massive as a 10-stories building to thousands of kilometers per seconds.

Even if assuming a minimum 1000km/sec and 500 tons shell, you get so much more energy that the Gustav don't even register in comparison.

Even assuming 99% of said energy would be lost somehow, that's still enough to flatten a city.
And if the full impact happens, you get a several kilometers-wide crater...

>>50642297
>FFG crunch

lel, nice try.

Also, it's an abstraction. Lasguns drill through concrete and explosively evaporate people's arms in fluff. Don't be retarded.

>>50643551
>It is from DH an rpg that while abstracted wants to simulate the game world in order to create a cohesive narrative. In that narrative lasgun is as good as autogun.

FFG have shown that they often disregard established fluff for game balance though. The stats of humans compared to eldar, for example, are nowhere near as disparate as they are in fluff.

>Autoguns are used by military to defend planets from enemies, xeno included, so they are good enough to fight xenos, so rifles are valid option to fight xenos, orcs included.

They're used by planets that do not have access to lasguns. Why do you think they're 'not as commplace as lasguns'? Because they're for planets that can't make lasguns.

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>mfw this thread

>>50645632

What is this thread like the 1st 2 posts were correct how the fuck is 12 million considered small?

Were not counting Squigs or Gretchen either

>>50645632
There's always one /k/ommando retard that is convinced Amurucuh has superior technology to the any 40K faction and could totally beat it up, despite all evidence to the contrary.

Granted, we could possibly stop a small Waaagh!, as we actually innovate in response to our problems and Orks are likely to throw their roks at our cities for an up close fight rather than flattening us from orbit with vastly superior firepower. But 40K tech is still generally better than ours, our only advantage here is in computing.

>>50645706
Also accuracy.
Orks just fire at everything.

>>50645632

As much as I like 40k all big fan bases literal autisits who keep making this 2007 tier shit

>>50641109
ig they landed in say, china or india because they detected it was the best for a good fight, they could fight for 3 months before anything reasembling a reinforcement comes with boats.
Planes will just be unusable because of AA from that spaceship with voidshields

>>50645677
well in 40 where system population range from 100,000,000,000 to 500,000,000,000 on average with hiveworld system in the 500,000,000,000,000 population range, a 12 Milllion ork whaag is basically the smallest that could possibly be considered a waagh. (if even) most whaaags are in the billions within days

>>50638004
We are deeply fucked against any foe that actually exploits any surface-to-surface capability, if the warboss is dead cunnin' or even slightly cunnin' and doesn't land everything and keeps sending rods from God then we are going to sell ourselves into slavery just to make it stop.

Otherwise it's going to be fucking awful and a huge endemic problem for years to come as ferals take root and the worst part is we might not even loot any advanced tech, if we get an intact warp-drive it's huge win but we might need to go though at least one Event Horizon before we lean our lesson but form there galactic colonization is a go.

>>50646289
>surface-to-surface
I should say space-to-surface.

>>50641403
>Nations across the world start picking weird radio signals, as if thousands of drunk cockney soccer fans were chanting.

I lol'ed.

>>50641500
> Imperiium using WW1 tanks against them and it's works
They look like WW1 tanks, but they aren't, and its nonsense to use really old lore comparisons because GW cant into numbers

>>50646289
>space-to-surface
Probably but it is not sure. We don't have any space combat experience and in theory being planet bound can be advantage or disadvantage.

By article I read some time ago, orbital bombardment is not so easy. You have to calculate proper trajectory of projectile. If you did it wrong it will bounce of or burn in atmosphere. If you shoot it right then it will take hours before it hits the target, giving defenders chance to move.
Defenders are also shielded by electromagnetic field, clouds and atmosphere, all of it causes problem to lasers.

While shooting into space is harder it is not impossible and ship can't hide behind anything it have great inertia and so it is quite easy target.

Above assumes going by "harder" SF tropes. It can always be waived away by:
much space magic or let's crash an asteroid, but crashing an asteroid is shit tier ground support.

Thankfully OP chosen orcs, and it be against their nature to use orbital bombardment instead of rushing to fight enemy personally

>>50641675
Your point? 6 points? T4? 4 attacks on the charge? S4 on the charge?

>>50644021
Just regular 7.62 can rip off an arm if you hit that. Full size rifle rounds would probably do significantly better than intermediate cartridges. I don't think fancy ammunition is needed.

>>50645677
>how the fuck is 12 million considered small
Because you fail to realize the scale that is being played at. 12 million is small when you frame it from the context that the Earth has 7 billion. It could quite feasibly put over 30% of that into service. Assuming a staggering 10:1 kill/death ratio in favor of the orks, they'd need over 200 million orks to win.

Now imagine if a Waaagh was attacking a hiveworld with a hundred billion people in it. They'd need dozens of billions of orks. Yes, these are scales which boggle the mind, but these are the scales of what we're playing at.

Let's say we have this same 100 billion population hive world pay its tithe to the Imperium solely in IG regiments, as some worlds do. They could EASILY sustain an annual rate of 1% of their population being sent off to war. 1% of 100 billion is 1 billion. Let that sink in. Every year, 1 billion men could be sent off to the Guard from this one single world, and that would be sustainable indefinitely. If the orks are supposed to play at this game and still come out using vastly more numbers than their opponents, then naturally they need billions if not trillions of orks in their Waaaaghs.

>>50646031
I think you overestimate the effectiveness of ork AA as well as its effective range, especially when terrain masking is considered.

And yes, wherever the orks landed there would be terrible devastation for YEARS before the orks were defeated. However, that defeat is fairly inevitable.

>>50640448
No one paid attention to this pozt.

It is already game over for mankind.

That Rokk crashing into Earth will destroy all agriculture.

The Orks have already annihilated most of mankind without a single shot.

>>50647715
Uh do you know how Orks land spaceships?

Spoilers, they don't. They crash them.

Even if we win we are thrown into a Dark age. Initial bombardment and planetfall impacts are devastating. Defeating the orks as a whole takes time and they are also able to use and repurpose our tech since orkz "tech magic". So we have worldwide cataclysm and also war on our hands. Just apply bug hurricane or Earthquake to many locations on Earth. Than we have a World War. Than after World War we have small skirmishes which are not easy since orkz are orkz.

>>50641832
It's not the Ork way. Orks came to fight not bombard.

>>50642439
The Soviets' were used to invasions like OP said. Well during the Great Patriotic War at least the Red Army would have squads behind their lines to enforce discipline and killed everyone who ran. Probably a military take over of the democratic nations would be the only thing keeping much of the world from capitulating.

>>50651773
>Initial bombardment and planetfall impacts are devastating.
BWAHAHAHA, there is shitton of not-nuke weapon which will be useful.

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>>50651172
pic related. orc landing

>>50641533
>what are nukes.

>>50655264
He noted nukes, but he otherwise vastly overplayed what humans can do against this.

>>50651773
>>50640448
Have it right, though. Even their landing means game over.

>>50649714
Is flat out a fucking idiot.

>>50657221
>Is flat out a fucking idiot.
What is the crashed ork ship going to do? Shoot down planes it has no idea are even there because the earth is in the way? You vastly overestimate ork capabilities.

The average ork invasion is in fact not by rokk. The OP specifically named ships. Even if it was an impact by a rokk, all the orks inside would die if the effects were truly an extinction level event. The rokk itself would be dust. However, that's not generally what happens. It's a sizeable impact, but doesn't destroy the world. But that point is moot because, as I mentioned, the average invasion is actually NOT by rokk. The orks aren't known for the incredible accuracy or potency of their orbital bombardments either. They launch an opening wild barrage and then land on the planet. Yes, land. They don't tend to smash their ships into the side of the planet. Does happen occasionally, but that's not the average invasion.

And even if they are devastating, the fact of the matter is that industry is spread far and wide across the planet. It would be frankly implausible for the orks to knock out anywhere near the majority of that.

Face it, the forces the orks have at their disposal in this scenario are insufficient to take down the present day earth.

>B-but you're just a HFY wanker and an idiot
Well, considering you really lack any coherent arguments, I'd say that you're the idiot here, blinded by a desire to see things how you want to see them.

>>50642254
>implying the fauna wouldn't just destroy them

>>50657728
Haha, oh fucking wow. Keep wanking yourself raw, faggot.

>What is the crashed ork ship going to do? Shoot down planes it has no idea are even there because the earth is in the way? You vastly overestimate ork capabilities.

I dunno, how do they handle Tau, Imperium, Eldar and Chaos flyers? Probably that way.

You have no idea of what the fuck you are actually talking about, downplay what the Orks CAN do, and insist that a race, once on a planet, basically can't be removed even by SEVERAL interstellar empires would just lose because you want it to be.

Head, get out of your ass.

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Wait, wait, wait, is this a 40k vs real life thread?

Oh man, I want in on this shit.

[spoiler[This can kill a Space Marine[/spoiler]

>>50641868
>The Imperial Guard Codex seems to mention that in a 10 man squad, there can be 1 special weapon and 1 heavy weapons
IG doctrine overall tends towards more bodies, more squads. So they have less special weapons. But last I checked IG rules, they could run 2 specials if they took no heavy. It's been a while though. Also special weapon squads can have higher concentrations than that and that's in a bog standard regiment.

But you're missing the point of his picture. Boltguns, which are in usage by more elite infantries such as Inquisitorial Stormtroopers, Battlesisters, Marines, etc. are essentially rapid fire grenade launchers.

>>50657784
>I dunno, how do they handle Tau, Imperium, Eldar and Chaos flyers? Probably that way.
They can't if they terrain mask, and that's the entire goddamn point. You have no clue what anything actually means or how it works. And I'm supposedly the one with my head up my ass.

And the problem with orks being on a planet is twofold. The first part is the actual invasion. So long as the orks don't outnumber you by a ridiculous amount, that's generally not a problem. In this scenario, even assuming the orks get a 10:1 kill:loss ratio, they don't end up winning. The numbers are just far too low. What makes orks scary is that Waaaaghs consist of billions or trillions of orks, or possibly even quadrillions, at the absolute largest. Yes, these are ludicrously large numbers that you can hardly even imagine, but that is the scale that needs to be thought about. With that in mind, only 12 million is nothing.

The part that is the "problem" is that you need to keep garrisoning the world because more orks will grow back. While these tribal orks are generally pretty easily dispatched, it is still something that needs to be done lest the problem get too big to manage.

And no, I'm not downplaying what orks can do. I'm just looking at it realistically.

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>>50657728
Enough. I'm tired of your complete and utter HFY wanking, fuck off back to /k/

You're completely over estimating earths military capabilities, and completely underestimating those of the orks and their ability to multiply. Pic related, small racing parties of orks escape into an under hive and come back weeks later as a horde that eventually overruns a planet. A hive planet, with far more people than us.

having 12 million orks invade earth at the same time? we are fucking fucked

>>50657925
Last I checked, two specials are not possible in a standard squad. Special weapons squads are the irregularity, rather than the norm. The issue is that even when we consider scale, existing forces here on earth have a significantly higher density of weapons such as that. Yes, the IG tends towards more bodies, less firepower per unit. That's kind of my point.

Boltguns are sort of strange in that the standard bolter round's explosive filler is actually quite minimal, to the extent that it's much more for pulping the innards of something it penetrates rather than making a large explosion. Grenade launchers have their place even alongside bolters. And the Stormtroopers don't use boltguns, mate.

>>50647919
Ld7, 6+ save, no way to reliably get to melee.
Mob rule.

>>50657972
>Small band escapes
>Rapidly reproduces to merc a hive-world
>Hives tend to have around 100 billion people per hive
>5-2o hives per world

And that's that, I think.

>>50657972
>Waaah, someone has the gall to suggest that a 40k faction might not win in a fight. They're clearly HFY wanking
You caught me. That's surely what I'm doing.
>You're completely over estimating earths military capabilities
You have no clue what those actually are. Why should I in any was listen to what you have to say on that subject? You couldn't even provide a counterpoint to anything I said. Instead, you just blindly swing away at me.

The image you provided is clearly over the top and lying, even for 40k. If you'd care to look at the many cases of ork infestation as they show up, they don't multiply anywhere near "in just a couple weeks a handful multiply to take over the entire world". If that were the case, all worlds that ever had orks on them would be lost. However, that's not the case. You look at the actual situations, and you see that once orks have been suppressed, local PDF generally keeps them down with minimal effort.

12 million orks is literally nothing. Come back with a hundred times as many, then the orks have a much better chance.

>>50657728
>Even if it was an impact by a rokk, all the orks inside would die if the effects were truly an extinction level event. The rokk itself would be dust. However, that's not generally what happens. It's a sizeable impact, but doesn't destroy the world. But that point is moot because, as I mentioned, the average invasion is actually NOT by rokk. The orks aren't known for the incredible accuracy or potency of their orbital bombardments either. They launch an opening wild barrage and then land on the planet. Yes, land. They don't tend to smash their ships into the side of the planet. Does happen occasionally, but that's not the average invasion.

Orks do smash their ships into the planet. That's how they land.

And yes, their ships are still functional after smashing into the planet at a significant portion of the speed of light. They're Orks. They instinctively know how to create both the strongest force fields in 40k and the biggest teleporters in 40k.

You don't defeat Orks on the ground. You defeat Orks in deep space, before they even get to a planet.

Of course, Earth has no Spacy, so they're fucked however it goes.

>>50658020
>Actual citations are clearly lying, because I don't like them

Well, that's really that, then. Fuck right off.

>>50658020
>You look at the actual situations, and you see that once orks have been suppressed, local PDF generally keeps them down with minimal effort.
Because the Imperium of Man has no problems with coating entire countries and even entire continents in motherfucking napalm.

>>50657972
>Orkz come from the Elemental Plane or Orkz

That's amazing.

>>50658020
>Actual Citations
>"They're lying because they prove me wrong!"

I think it's time for you to close the thread, friend.

>>50658024
>Orks do smash their ships into the planet. That's how they land.
Not at the insane speeds you think they do. They do it at far more managable speeds than that.

>cherry picking singular examples of things as examples of the average ork waaagh
No, rokks are not as common as you think they are, nor do they generally smash into the planet creating extinction level events. No, teleporters and force fields that strong are indeed the rarity.

>You don't defeat Orks on the ground. You defeat Orks in deep space, before they even get to a planet.
Orks are quite commonly defeated on ground. The big problem is that orks come in ludicrous numbers. 12 million is not anywhere near that for this task.

>>50658026
I mean, compared to most other sources, yes, it is lying.

>>50658039
That's not the only reason why, anon. Not even done in most situations that we see.

>>50658062
Do you even know how lightspeed works? Even a few percentages of lightspeed would be extremely damaging to the planet.

And it doesn't really matter if they bring a Rokk, a captured Imperial spaceship or a fucking spacehulk. The end result is the same. Farming will be impossible for the next 100-10000 years.

Orks are quite commonly defeated by millions, billions or trillions of soldiers carrying laser weapons capable of melting holes in Abrams MBT's.

Last time I checked, the total amount of soldiers on Earth didn't number in the trillions, and we certainly lack laser weapons.

>>50657981
>the IG tends towards more bodies, less firepower per unit. That's kind of my point
They also field several times over the number of units. So they end up with more specials in the end.

You definitely can't do two specials in a standard infantry platoon anymore though. I guess since Vets are mainline troops there's less point.

>And the Stormtroopers don't use boltguns, mate.
Inquisitorial Stormies used to be able to. I'd assume that it's one option that has been left by the wayside though.

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>>50638004
Orks are peaceful you xenophobes, if we only give them the opportunity to integrate into our societies, they can return to their natural peaceful temperament.

How dare you criticize them for being violent ! All they have known is conflict for their entire lives, just give them a chance, you disgusting racists.

>>50658072
Read the lore babby.

>>50658020
>You caught me. That's surely what I'm doing.
yes exactly, glad we can agree on this point. Its one thing to suggest that a force won't win just because its 40k. its another to ignore facts to fit your own made up narrative

>The image you provided is clearly over the top and lying, even for 40k.
Thats literally from the latest Ork codex, don't try to discredit sources because you're getting BTFO

>>50658020
>f that were the case, all worlds that ever had orks on them would be lost
they don't because the inhabitants of that world have to constantly fight the orks back and firebomb large areas to clear spores. This was mentioned several times earlier in the thread.

>local PDF generally keeps them down with minimal effort.
having to fight the equivalent of at least the vietnam war every 10 years, possibly on multiple fronts, is minimal effort? because thats exactly what will be happening on earth for the rest of ever until the orks eventually overrun us. That may seem minimal on the scale of 40k, but its not something we could sustain on modern earth

>12 million orks is literally nothing. Come back with a hundred times as many, then the orks have a much better chance.
if only they had the ability to exponentially increase their numbers in a short amount of time.....

oh wait, thats exactly what they do. In the same time it takes earth to equipt, train and mobilize this HFY civilian militia army of love and friend ship, the orks have already matched those numbers and caused massive damage to the infrastructure and environment

>>50658052
I mean, Xenology states that it takes several decades before feral ork tribes start coming from the wilderness, so yes, the citation given is clearly wrong, especially given the tone of its writing.

>>50658093
Look, the dude flat out started crying actual pages from the book were lying.

Its best to not bother, he clearly can't understand. Just allow his delusion, and ignore him.

>>50658110
>Using Xenology as a source!
Oh, the laughter just doesn't stop coming.

>>50658100

>>>/pol/

>>50658110
>Xenology
That's a source that often gets looked at askance, but most sources have it being a number of years to decades before feral orks attack in numbers.

>>50658100
>inb4 NASA convinces the Orks to participate in scientific missions to mars and other planets in the solar system in exchange for their own personal rockets

>>50658110
>Xenology

Hahahaha, that's a good joke. I haven't heard that one in years.

>>50658107
>having to fight the equivalent of at least the vietnam war every 10 years, possibly on multiple fronts, is minimal effort? because thats exactly what will be happening on earth for the rest of ever until the orks eventually overrun us. That may seem minimal on the scale of 40k, but its not something we could sustain on modern earth
Don't forget that in the Imperium, armies can take tremendous losses and remain functional, because you can always "import" new soldiers from other planets.
You can't do that with Earth. This is all we have.

>>50658093
I'm well aware of what an impact at even 1% the speed of light would do to any celestial body. It would be an extinction level event, or if the mass was large enough, complete destruction of both entities. However, that's not what happens. Only in VERY rare cases has a planet been destroyed like that by orks. I can only think of one off the top of my head. Seeing as how NOTHING similar to an extinction level event like yours occurs in any point I'm aware of in lore, so clearly that's not what they're doing.

>carrying laser weapons capable of melting holes in Abrams
Maybe a handful of them have lascannons, but your standard lasgun is nowhere near that powerful. In fact, as far as we can tell, the lasgun is only comparable in power to existing rifles.

>Last time I checked, the total amount of soldiers on Earth didn't number in the trillions, and we certainly lack laser weapons.
An entity threatened by extermination can, in times of dire need, have 30% of their population put into uniform. If you'd care to read ANY of the math further up in the thread, you can see how ludicrously small this invasion force is for orks. Earth only needs to lose ten men for every ork. That is of course only assuming men fight. The problem with Orks is because they can mass armies in their billions and trillions. Those armies need to be fought by other suitably large armies. As it stands, the orks number only 12 million. That is, quite frankly, pitiful.

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>>50658173
>As it stands, the orks number only 12 million. That is, quite frankly, pitiful.
I mean you ignored a source and tried to use one that is widely known to be non canon on tg, you're obviously a troll, bravo for dragging this out so long and wasting our time

>>50658173
No one is talking about a destroyed planet you dumb motherfucker.

Do you know about volcanic dust? A significant eruption can cause harvests to fail for a year, sometimes multiple years.

Now imagine that a bigass object comes from space and smashes into the ground, vaporizing billions of tonnes of rocks and dirt, and shelling them into the atmosphere. Can you guess what that'd do to sunlight? Can you guess what it'd mean for agriculture if the sun stops shining for 100 years? 1000 years? Do you know happens when crops fail for a year? Yes? Now imagine what it means when you can't grow plants for say... 100 years...

>>50658173
>Earth only needs to lose ten men for every ork.
And how many Orks will each dead Ork spawn?

If every dead Ork spawns two new dead Orks... well, those 12 million become 24 million, and then those 24 million become 48 million, etc. etc. etc.

And that's lowballing the Orkish spawning rates.

What if every Ork releases 10 spores? That's going from 12 million to 120 million, then 1,2 billion, etc. etc. etc.

>>50658209
And before you start whining, you know what orks eat?

Fungus. Fungus that comes from their own fucking sporing. Orks are literally a self-sustaining economy in and of themselves.

>>50658246
Nevermind that fungi don't need sunlight to grow.

I've grown mushrooms in a closet in my dorm. Just add water and some resource to grow on, done.

>>50658209
Now on top of all this, add to the fact that even if the initial 12 million strong invasion force is defeated and scattered, we'll be fighting the equivalent of ISIS in every major city and the vietnam war on 20 different fronts every 10 years for the rest of forever. our forests and wilderness will be infested with greenskins, our ecology is being ruined and altered, and humanity will be slowly worn down. Orks repopulate so much faster than humans its not even fucking funny. they can lose every major war for the next few decades, eventually we won't be able to sustain it and the orks will take over. there is literally no way modern earth wins, even if everything goes its way.

>>50641092
Incredibly unlikely I think

>>50658107
>Thats literally from the latest Ork codex, don't try to discredit sources because you're getting BTFO
I am going to discredit them because they are intentionally wrong and don't match up with any other lore that exists. Xenology states that it takes several decades after an Ork invasion for tribal orks to start launching large raids.

>they don't because the inhabitants of that world have to constantly fight the orks back and firebomb large areas to clear spores. This was mentioned several times earlier in the thread.
They don't routinely firebomb entire continents every five years. It doesn't happen. Orks don't repoduce that quickly. They reproduce far faster than humans, but not at the lightning rate you suggest. It isn't matched by any other lore, and the quote you gave is quite intentionally overblown.

>having to fight the equivalent of at least the vietnam war every 10 years, possibly on multiple fronts, is minimal effort?
Honestly? Yes. Vietnam was pretty small time. Conflicts like it could be sustained indefinitely. And yes, the Earth could do it. Over the past fifty years alone, Earth's population went from 3 trillion to 7 trillion. Even assuming half the world dies, the population is back in 50 years.

>if only they had the ability to exponentially increase their numbers in a short amount of time.....
They don't. Not in that short a time.

And yes, Germany was able to equip 30% of its population in 6 years of war.

But sure, let's take a moment to stop and think. At the moment, the world's militaries already outnumber the 12 million orks several times over. That number could quite easily double in six months or less, depending on how much training you want to do. Setting up production for war once existing stores are depleted is the biggest concern, but do remember that Germany was able to equip 30% of its population it in the span of 6 years or so, without production really kicking into gear until 1943.

>>50658259
That's 100% my point. Fungus can grow in conditions we can't make food in. Orks just don't give a fuck.

>>50658265
>Conflicts like it could be sustained indefinitely.
Not without any food for the coming 100 years.

>>50658265
>I'm going to discredit the new codex
>Holds up Xenology as a reputable source

I mean, thanks for destroying your own argument so utterly, but this is just getting sad.

>>50658209
>No one is talking about a destroyed planet you dumb motherfucker.
If that's all that you got from that, you are the dumb motherfucker here. If you're slamming a rokk into the earth at anywhere approaching the speeds you were talking about, that's exactly what we'd be talking about. But, that's not what you're projecting. Instead, you're talking about a second ice age by volcanic dust. An extinction level event. As it turns out, that's not reported in lore anywhere. So obviously, it doesn't happen. That's literally what I just said. Unfortunately, you're too stupid to understand it.

>>50658265
>They reproduce far faster than humans, but not at the lightning rate you suggest.
Because in 40k, Orks can be routinely culled by armies that number in the trillions.

>>50641623
>Russia has close to 10 millions men and women in arms.
But Russia dropped nukes on all the major population centers? Is the dangers of radioactive fallout not a thing?

>>50658292
>As it turns out, that's not reported in lore anywhere.
Because the Imperium is a galactic empire. If one planet can't produce food for 1000 years, the Imperium will just import food from another planet.

>>50658265
>I am going to discredit them because this latest canon source on the matter is intentionally wrong and don't match up with any of the headcanon i've been spewing out of my ass, or my non-canon/retcnonned source which i've based my entire argument on.
ftfy. you got BTFO, just accept it and move on. discrediting sources proves you fucking lost, arguing against anything else you have to say is pretty pointless now

>>50642710
he's just making statements that look smart with a quick glance without fully considering the level of retardation radiating from the content

>>50658292
Are you fucking retarded? 40k lore is filled with stories of agricultural planets unable to produce after even minor wars.

>>50658265
>And yes, Germany was able to equip 30% of its population in 6 years of war.
After sacking the population of all the territories it conquered.

That's not a good argument.

>>50658226
The issue with that is how long this will take. We'll say it takes a decade for a crushed ork force to come back in strength. That seems fairly reasonable, if maybe low. Once the exiting ork invasion is crushed, the orks are now spread far apart and bereft of the technology they once had. Tribal orks aren't the best at making technology again. Yes, you'll occasionally find a shitty slugga or two, but nowhere near the level of firepower they used to have. With that in mind, the orks are now shit out of luck, and if they were destroyed the first time, they could very well be destroyed the next and the next, until the end of the world.

>>50658261
You overstate how many orks would remain cohesive and imply that they wouldn't be systematically culled to prevent them from ever growing strong. You also greatly overestimate the power of tribal orks. Remember, PDF forces usually contain them on their own with no trouble.

>>50641132
the main strength of the lasgun is the accuracy and speed firing, while maintaining a respectable damaging ability, and having one of the most efficient ammunition supplies available. And the power is good, against say, other humans. But not as good against an orc.

>>50658318
>And yes, Germany was able to equip 30% of its population in 6 years of war.
i don't even understand where he's trying to go with this, in 6 years 100 orks could have grown to the entire population of earth and overrun it easily.

>>50641890
Anything nasty enough to drop an Ork dead in their tracks is probably going to rapidly decimate us as well.

>>50640882
nobody expects a purple orc, nobody

>>50658296
Not really. Tribal orks are generally kept down with far lower commitments of manpower. Besides, if it really came down to it, the world COULD, if faced with a serious enough threat, put together a several trillion member army after several years.

>>50658303
>it's not reported in lore
>that means it happens
Sure thing.

>>50658310
40k lore has no mention of a rokk covering the planet in dust, thus causing it to go into an ice age. I remember a couple mentions of agriworlds no longer producing things, but generally that goes along with bioweapons.

>After sacking the population of all the territories it conquered.
While they did secure resources, in this case Germany wouldn't even have to do that. You'd assume that those resources would get used for the same purpose anyways.

>>50658336
The main power of the lasgun is simply in logistics. The ammunition is simply power. The power packs can be recharged through a variety of means. Current weaponry can match their destructive power easily. And yes, massed lasgun fire will take down an ork.

>>50658349
>he actually believes this

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>all this HYF wank ITT
>mfw 12 million orks would bootyblast modern earth
>mfw it wouldnt even take one million space marines, eldar, dark eldar, tau, necrons, daemons or chaos traitors to BTFO modern earth

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>>50658406
>small raiding force being able to overrun a hive world in weeks
>not being able to overrun modern earth in 6 years while it takes earth that same time just to mobilize all available manpower into a massive army
>he actually, truly, unironically believes this

>>50658333
>With that in mind, the orks are now shit out of luck, and if they were destroyed the first time, they could very well be destroyed the next and the next, until the end of the world.
Nope, because now humanity is going extinct thanks to all farmland being unusable since there is no more sunlight.

>orcs realize there is big fight to be had at earth
>not many defenses keeping them from getting in system
>come back with more
>alot more

>>50658433
Yeah, he keeps claiming the Codex is lying, because obviously it is.

>>50658412
How many marines can take over a whole fucking planet by themselves again? Like, 5?

>>50658412
A single strikeforce of Space Marines could take out modern Earth.

>teleport Terminators inside Russian missile silo
>have a servitor hack into the computer systems
>launch nuclear missile at the USA
>wait 20 minutes
>invade the nuclear remains of the planet formerly known as Earth

>>50658447
>still thinks that rokks do that despite all evidence to the contrary
>>50658433
>he unironically believes that was correct and not a massive overinflation

>>50658450
what space marines are we talking about here, that number could be lower if it was a smurf with their superior everything

>>50642871
I'd like to see you survive an axe blow to the head.

>>50658493
Hell, I'd love to see him survive having his head chopped off, and then re-attached to another body, not even his own.

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>>50658493

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>>50638004
Exactly what we need to uncuck the world.

>>50645568
That's not FFG crunch, that's GW crunch; the original DH1e book and the first few supplements (including the Inquisitor's Handbook) were all originally published by Black Industries.

>>50658555
would FFG count as retcon?

>>50658505
Exactly.

>>50658505
>can keep on fighting even after technical death

When do we get an Orks Looney Tunes cartoon?

>hey gromzug... no fair! you're already dead!
>wot you grot, quit mucking about - wait is that my brain?
>yeah, that's your brain, ya dumdum!
>oops *dies*

>>50658625
Since when?

>>50642870
Damn right they our armadas are better than the Imperium because it's a shitty imaginary army in a shittier imaginary game

>>50641129
Virus bombs feed nurgle. Generally they're avoided for that reason. It'd be a little like sending a drug that makes an entire planet fuck each other to death to combat something. Sure it'd work but you've made another problem bigger.

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>>50658514
>tripfag
>/pol/fag
>spewing /pol/
try harder

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>>50658457
>>teleport Terminators inside Russian missile silo
Say hello to my comrade you fat piece of shit.
>>have a servitor hack into the computer systems
You mean tech-marines, right?

>>50658100
I see Green Lives Matter has already arrived on scene to burn cities before the orks arrive.

>>50640980
Oh shit. Can you imagine if /pol/ was really conjuring the Dark Gods in this world? They kinda make sense. Khorne = race war mumbling, Slaneesh = maybe fetishes?, Nurgle = NEET living on 4chan, Tzeencht = conspiracy theories

someone make a summary of ork capabilities so scientists can figure out if we can match them

>>50640980
>>50640980
>We're fucked as our Psykers have only recently become active and they're all too busy shitposting on /s4s/ to help

FTFY

>>50660132
if you really wanted to fix it you should've just said 4chan.

>>50658393
>several trillion member army
Nigga there weren't even that many humans in all of history, you're so retarded it's painful. Orks would BTFO modern earth so hard, you really think the same militaries that have trouble taking out glorified gangs with AKs and RPGs is going to quickly mobilize into a massive army that will meet all the orks in one pitched battle and drown them in bodies? You really think humans wouldn't get conquered and enslaved? You really think humans will be able to recover their numbers faster than orks? HFY delusion wankfest

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>>50641623
>Humanity won by attrition.
>Beating orks by attrition when they literally multiply themselves and keep popping out of the ground automatically replacing their fallen and growing their numbers..
You can't be serious.

>>50666254
It's all about the rate of reproduction and numbers.

Orks aren't tyranids, poping men by the millions in a few days/weeks from near to nothing.
It can take decades between a Waaaagh being defeated and new attacks from feral orks.

In the mean time, we currently have 100 millions humans being born each year.
Even if you cut that in half, that still means we could afford to lose a few million men each year.

Which we won't.

Because feral orks are only dangerous if :

- You let them grow beyond the yoofs stade.
- You let them gather and organize in large enough number.
- You let them get their hands on actual ranged weapons
- You let them close the distance enough to shoot at you

As long as they are only small bands of skirmishers, we can take care of them with proper combined arms operations.
They might thrive in jungles but even there, anything less than stealthy would be the same as to paint a big sign and call down airstrikes on it.

>>50642826
Why are yurofags so obsessed with insulting americans? It is getting pathetic at this point.

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>>50638004
any 40k army gets demolished by a modern earth army for this simple fact:
40k armies are all bumblefuck retards marching shoulder to shoulder in the open with WWII levels of technology.

one nuke can wipe out the entire ork force with nothing but glass left behind.

and that is a fact.

pic related is what modern weapons will do to a typical ork boyz brick formation

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>>50667217
because they are a dying civilization. they have spent 10 years with zero or negative growth. their countries are crippled by continental philosophy. in the next 100 years, europe will be lower in GDP than china, india, and the USA. they will be a 4th rate power.

and they know it.

>>50667642

I don't mind stagnation, high population growth is just as bad. Rather we should be thankful that the population is in decline in the most affluent parts of the world since the arths carrying capacity wouldn't be able to sustian a population with massive consumption. People are so obsessed with endless growth and don't seem to realize we live on a world with clear physical limits.

>>50641533
>Europe's countryside is flooded with refugees.
So just a normal day for us?

>>50641748
>300 meters
>500 meters
When I go outside I can rarely see further than 100 meters because there's trees and houses and suchlike in the way.

Of course the real problem is that, you kill an ork, 5 years later (or however long) like 20 new orks pop up out of the ground where he died. Kill all of them, 5 years later you have 400 new ones where those 20 died. And so on.

>>50668283
And in that same time, all those hundreds of millions of new humans born will just be learning how to read and in no state to replace the losses in war for at the very least another 10 years. Orks are battle ready from the moment they are born and even dead orks reproduce. I mean, HFY wanker fag up there who thinks humans can win by attrition already refuses to accept canon sources, so his stance is literally worthless

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>>50667398
What the fuck is going on?

>>50667130
But after the Orks... 'land' there won't be any new humans born, because dust will blot out the sun, and agriculture will become impossible for the next 100, 200 years maybe even more...

How are you going to birth babies when you can't even feed yourself?