Which faction was best? Except aliens

>>50625218
>what faction is best except any best faction candidate

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>>50625922
>>50625218
Expansion factions are all innately either overpowered (Aliens, Cybernetics, Pirates, Free Drones) or underpowered one trick ponies (Data Angels, Cult of the planet) that is why they were not included in the original game. The Aliens are notoriously overpowered compared to all human factions especially the original ones.

>>50626096
Alens being OP makes sense.

>>50625218
Morgan

>>50626115
Not in the game's perspective.

>>50625218
I think Peacekeepers and Morgan Industries have biggest chance of not being turned into slave/experiment subject and have quite good standard of living.
Believers can probably be a comfy option if you are into hardcore religion.
And if you are a genejack then Hive would be your paradise.

For a game I mostly played an University believing that tech advantage is most important.

>>50625218
I will give you best three in each category, in no particular order
>Gameplay SMAC
Gaians, Yang, Peacekeepers
>Gameplay SMAX
Free Drones, Cybernetic Consciousness, Usurpers (sorry, too good to pass)
>Storyline, all
Gaians, University, Cult
>Easiest time running GURPS: Alpha Centauri early years
Spartans, University, Gaians
>Easiest time running GURPS: Alpha Centauri middle period
Gaians, Free Drones, Spartans
>Easiest time running GURPS: Alpha Centauri late period
Gaians, Peacekeepers, University
>Most stupid faction
Pirates
>Most hated faction
Believers

>>50626155
I guess we played different games, anon

>>50626184
>Fun fact
Did you know Free Drones can out-tech University, even if there is total 4 points of Research difference between them?

>>50626184
Drew, we both had our mutual problems with each other. And we both did our damage to each other.

Please leave me alone. Stay out of my life.

>>50626494
>There are people who value factions unable to pop-boom as best gameplay-wise
I mean... why? The advantage of sudden population explosion with Creches under Planned Democracy is just too good to ignore, especially if you pump some Psych and everyone is ultra-happy. Gaians and cyborgs have negative growth, while Yang can't into Democracy.

>>50625218
Depends on period, depends on campaign goals and most importantly - on your players.

Gaians all the way!

>>50625218
All of them seem like the worst examples of humanity.

>>50626656
>Peacekeepers
>Worst of humanity
I cut myself on your edge

We must Dissent

>>50626725
You mean the faction led by the dude keeping his wife alive illegally?

>>50626830
>This bullshit yet again
I mean not even fucking word of god managed to cut this crap down... You people are fucking amazing.

Let me guess - Miriam did nothing wrong and Deidre feeds dissidents to worms, right?

>>50626872
All i'm saying is that hardly anyone in Alpha centauri doesn't have a stain, be it possible wife sustainment antics or over distrust of technology.

Also Mirriam a shit.

>>50626885
I think you are missing a major point here.
Leader =/= faction. We discuss factions. And you (or different anon) bitch about Lal writing a poem that doesn't even have to be about his wife. Then come the novelisations, which while crappy as hell, still shed a lot of light on factions as such and their leaders.

tl;dr - Lal really did nothing wrong. And Peacekeepers are the very embodiement of UN idealism put into work, so saying they are "just as bad" is not simply edgy, it's just plain stupid.

>>50626494
>Did you know Free Drones can out-tech University, even if there is total 4 points of Research difference between them?

It's possible to out-tech University as any faction if you try hard enough.

Even Believers.

It just requires enough numbers and brute forcing the secret projects.

>>50626656
That's the point.

It's any ideology taken to the inhuman extreme.

>>50626915
I was probably going a bit too far saying the worst of humanity, but they're hardly shining beacons of the best of humanity, lal's okay though.

>>50626915
Well, if the U.N. failed to prevent the catastrophe on Earth, then what good is re-implementing it?

>>50626917
I'm talking AI here. Under AI control, Drones are eventually out-teching everyone, even if they are supposed to be low-tech faction. So it's less about "each faction can under player" and more about "AI will do that easily"

>>50626915
>And Peacekeepers are the very embodiement of UN idealism put into work

Because it worked so well last time. It's not like anyone had to build a big fucking boat and paddle off of Earth or anything.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6nJIZu4Hdg

They are, in their own way, as bad as all the other alternatives. Exactly as bad, but in their own special way.

>>50626934
... because this time around they don't have to bother with all the pre-existing governments, centuries of grudges and the other shit that makes their life hard IRL?

Seriously, it never cease to amaze me how much shit Peacekeepers are getting from everyone on 4chan. It's like being fucking blind to reality.

>>50626964
See what I was saying >>50626963 ?

>>50626964
Hell yes they do, just look at the other factions. It's not like their cultural values are going to disappear just because the nu-UN crushes their independence. Faithful are gonna be faithful, scientists are gonna science, workers are gonna march, capitalists are gonna amass capital. Because the UN can't stamp out their differing ideals without going against their own doctrine.

>>50626964
I feel the same way about the Believers.

But I understand that I am prejudiced based on preference and taking a step back can see that perhaps many would prefer not to live in that theocracy, though I would find it pretty comfy.

>>50626963
>B-but they failed on Earth!
>T-they are bound to fail again!
>B-bureaucracy!
Are you fucking out of your mind? There are NO countries this time around. They can make literally UN: The Country. They provide the best they can spare to their own populance. If you are familiar with the setting as such - they are sending fucking humanitarian aid to other factions later on. So you have in the same time UN: The Nation and UN: The Organisation, the same way how each faction has Morgan Industries branches running part of their business by middle period of settlement.

Do you even know the setting, or just repeat gibberish you know from threads on /v/?

>>50626986
My biggest beef against Believers has nothing to do with religion or technology supression or whatever else.
My biggest beef against Believers is their IMPLIED moral superiority, while its just as artificial and superflous as with other factions. Because they have NO moral higher ground, while being in the same time aggressive assholes looking down on everyone, but since they are appealing to "good old times", a lot of people are buying this shit and that's what's really frustrating - that people are buying IMPLIED rather than REAL moral higher ground.

No faction in SMAC has that.

>>50626984
>Still missing the point
Peacekeepers have now their own country. The one that fulfills entire agenda of the UN.
And you are acting as if they were yet again powerless organisation based solely on diplomatic agreements and good will of the real players in the international politics.

>>50626989
>B-but they failed on Earth
Correct.
>T-they are bound to fail again!
Same speed ahead, Kiff!
>B-bureaucracy!
Didn't even mention that although thank you for doing so.
>There are NO countries this time around.
Other than all the other nations, unless you're somehow playing a 1 player game.
>They can make literally UN: The Country
So a Union of exactly one Nation
>They provide the best they can spare to their own populace
Not unique to them

>Do you even know the setting
Yes, I've played the game extensively for years.

>>50627014
You are trying too hard, Steve.

But still made me reply, so here is your (You). Would add proper gif, but I'm on phone.

>>50626964
The thing is that everyone gets shit, because someone is always going to think one has the answer and the others should fuck off and die. If you ask me, then none of them are a viable alternative, or, well, almost all of them are viable, as it takes very little to build a functioning society given that we've been doing it thousands of different ways throughout history, but none of them are ideal, despite being idealistic. And the problem with the Peacekeepers is, as I see it, a weakness in their power to act decisively, despite fundamentally good intentions acting as the system's guidelines. Take Hive on the other hand, and you have decisiveness, a true ability to control the destiny of the species, but no intention of working for the good of the common man.

>Daily reminder there are people who consider Peacekeepers equal to Hive or Pirates
>Daily reminder they are not doing that ironically
>Daily reminder there are other people who find Morgans being the best of them all on ideological level
>Daily reminder they are also doing it non-ironically

Changing the subject slightly - anyone got that post explaining the canon ending of the games, with Gaians, Peacekeepers and University combining their effort and Morgan Industries changing into a standard multi-branch corporation rather than separate nation-like entity?

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>>50627024
>I have no counterargument

>>50627032
Well, technically Yang is doing it for the good of the common man...
... in the most utilitarian way imaginable, unnerving pretty much everyone with just how plain inhuman it is. On the other hand, before Yang starts rolling with shit like punishment spheres, nerve stampling, cloning and other stuff, it's just a pretty normal utilitarian society. The "problem" is how he has absolutely no restrains to both his power AND concept of extreme efficiency, regardless of anything else, ending up being the closest thing the game has as pure evil... while not giving a single fuck about rights or wrong or any other set of morality other than how profitable it is for the group.

Compare with Morgan, which is also all about profit, but INDIVIDUAL profit.

>>50627059
>Makes no other argument than "Hurr they are bad durr"
>Expect anyone to even bother with counter-argumentation
You're cute

>>50627009
The problem is that they aren't content with their own country, they want to unify everyone else, and then in the end you get the exact same situation you had on Earth. I'm not talking about a generation or two, I'm talking about 200-300 years from now, when the people of the other factions have split up internally because their unifying ideology has been squashed and they revert to colours and locations and whatnot. The UN is not a particularly strong unifying force, not in the face of the grievances and differences and allowance of individual greed and the common man's dislike of bureaucracy. It lacks the ideological foundation to stop the same inefficiency it had on Earth to become a problem once again because it hasn't developed the ideological or practical ability to create a more restrictive society than what existed on Earth.
If there is such a thing as an overall theme of SMAC, it's that humanity as a whole didn't learn the lessons it needed to stop itself from repeating the same mistakes all over. The Peacekeepers are ideologically and morally preferable to almost all other factions, but are they efficient enough in the long term? Hive is efficient enough in the long term, but is it morally and ideologically acceptable? University has the tools to thrive, but can it restrain itself from going too far?

>>50627072
It always makes me wonder. On gameplay level, Yang and Morgan are always against each other.
On fluff level, they don't give a fuck, while Morgan has a serious, almost Looten Plunder style beef against Gaians.

>>50627102
P.S. I just want to emphasize that I'm talking about SMAC's fictional UN here, and don't mean to make any kind of commentary against the real UN, since, as far as I can tell, we have yet fucked up as badly as they did before SMAC.

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>>50627081
Except that I have stated why I believe they are not any better than the others. You haven't been able to do so for why you think they are the settings "good guys" beyon because they're the Ineffectual UN v2.0.

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>>50625218
Hive.

Firaxians

>>50627262
Has there ever been any Easter Eggs of information been given about them?

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Aki Zeta a cute. CUTE!

>>50627147
For me introduction of Free Drones was a godsend. Hive is just too extreme and going for "benovelent dictator" bullshit, while getting less and less human in the end.
Drones always stay on course for equal-share utopia, eventually achieving it by late game, without going for "group over individual", but also without rampant individuality of other factions.

In short - Drones and Peacekeepers make the best stuff for me.

>>50627335
Depending on whether or not the cyborgs mind staple each other with consent or not makes the Cybernetic Consciousness either the best faction or even more terrifying than Yang.

I'm going to go with the theory that cyborgs ask for permission to stroggify you, which makes them the best faction.

>>50627345
Shame Free Drones can't into Green, would be fucking perfect. It makes much more sense to prevent them from Police State or Free Market.

>>50627349
They - fluff-wise - don't need nerve stampling, since their implants by default makes them stampled.

>>50627360
Drones are partly HFY: the faction.

As in, fuck your experiments and fuck your worms, we will build our own utopia and shape the world to the needs of the common man. So, no respect for ecology.

>>50627374
No but I mean to by a citizen of the CC you need to be a cyborg. They specifically have a very hard time keeping their population size up so they spend a lot of time recruiting others.

If they ask you "do you want to be a cyborg" they're the best faction, if they just make you a cyborg they're the most terrifying faction in existence because at that point they're just the Borg.

>>50627391
Well, asking for consent doesn't mean the people actually have the ability to understand what they're consenting to, and that they don't complain after they've been reprogrammed doesn't mean it's right to reprogram them.

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>>50627335

>>50627405
I think if you ask anyone whether or not they would forfeit the right to privacy, emotion, and sometimes individuality, in exchange for a cozy life, no internal conflict, and a true sense of purpose you give people a pretty good picture of what's in store for them.

>>50627384
But I like green. And like utopia. And I can't get both, which is a fucking shame.

>>50627391
It's the first one, it was confirmed long ago by Reynolds. One of few things he explained and confirmed.
And not entire CC population is cyborg, since, well, voluntary. On the other hand, why wouldn't you volunteer if you grew up with a society making sure to show you how great choice it is.

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>>50627335
The cutest.

>>50627349
It reminds we of the Conjoiners in the Revelation Space series. They abducted a lot of people and forcibly converted them and jammed machines into their heads. Those that were "rescued" kept trying to go back becasue once the shock wore off it was fucking awesome.

>>50627391
Want really scary option?
CC with Cloning Vats

Let that sink in for few moments.

>>50627420
Well first the people would need a firm understanding of the philosophical definitions and practical purposes of those things, which I doubt the cyborgs give before asking or implementing. It's like the equivalent of when in fantasy you're being asked to give up your soul for a deal, and nobody tells you what the soul actually is or is for.

>>50627420
I, for one, would gladly jump on that bandwagon.

I can totally see advertisements about cyborgization, aimed at the poor, depressed, and just miserable.

>>50627428
>green utopia

Play Deirdre then. It's hippie biopunk utopia.

>>50626725
You mean the soulless bureaucrats SJWs hell bent on repeating all earth's mistakes (most of witch they caused by the way) and whose main way to win is abusing a system nobody should give half a shit about anymore?
I hate them more than Miriam.

>>50627448
>I can totally see advertisements about cyborgization, aimed at the poor, depressed, and just miserable.

This.
Why most sci-fi creators makes the poor going AGAINST cyborgisation is beyond me. It's the reverse of basic fucking logic. Like those horrible new Deus Ex games, where all the poor and oppressed are against implants, even if there is no trade off and they make you much less miserable and oppressed.

>>50627456
But it's not the kind of utopia I want, you see. Just think about it. Standard Deidre vs Green Drones. See the difference now?

Then again, most of the time I end up playing as Gaians anyway.

>>50627460
(You)

>>50627441
It tottaly removes their one weakness

Combined with the other advances made on Planet they have access to endless children that can grow up from the earliest stages with the implants. "Natural" Cyborgs. No memory of unaugmented humanity.

>>50627460
>UN
>SJWs
I just want to remind everyone ITT that this is either bait or chronic stupidity, and not worth falling for or discussing.

>>50627441
Well since I've been corrected and their cybernetic enhancements are voluntary, cloning vats wouldn't really that big of a deal.

A clones is just your own genetics, it would rarely be different from a twin, and even if the two shared memories the clone would still have a mind of its own.

>>50627460
I cut myself just reading your post

>>50627464
In Deus Ex implants are costly and increase class disparity even more. As in, if one guy is rich and successful and another is poor and wretched, because the first guy is smart and strong, and the boosters will enhance the first guy even more because he can afford them.

If the implants are free, though, that's another story.

>>50627477
Cybernetic Consciousness's entire shtick is that they're not stupid. They would likely keep a pure version of humanity around just as a reminder as for how much it sucks to be human so the hive doesn't destroy itself by trying to go all noble savage on everyone.

>>50627491
Fuck, I can't into grammar.

What I meant is if the first guy is succesful because of natural abilities and another guy is not, implants will only worsen the situation, because only the first guy can afford them.

>>50627491
>>50627464
The Deus Ex prequels are fucking stupid anyways. Those prequels are for their gameplay, sometimes their characters, and nothing else.

>>50627477
>>50627481
The real funny part is how their own pursuit for being a transhuman is by the end irrevelant, as the game ends with one massive wave of transhumanism. Only than being part-machines, you are fungus now.

Kind of ironic, if you ask me.

My head-canon is how CC was more important than University in making the contact with the Planet and hooking it up to the computers, due to their own expertise on this field.

>>50627502
What about the waifus? Do they have waifus? My computer can't handle them so I haven't played them yet.

>>50627511
You are missing nothing. Deus Ex is over-rated as fuck, but the modern prequels are just fucking horrible. The worst kind of soulless modern "remake" you can imagine.

>>50627507
>Head-canon
For me CC is just semi-autonomous branch of University, rather than full-blown faction of their own. Same way how Data Angels are literally just hacking kids from Morgan Inc. and Peacekeepers.

>>50627009
>>The one that fulfills entire agenda of the UN.
Yes, And that agenda A SHIT.

>>50627491
>>50627499
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLzoi1ndQH8

>>50627518
The first Deus Ex was great, it spawned a terrible sequel, and then the two prequels after that were okay but incredibly stupid plot wise and if you take them as canon they destroy every bit of nuance in the world of the first game.

>>50627491
That's why the Longevity Vaccine varies in it's effectiveness depending on your economic model.

>>50627478
>>50627487
>>no argument

>>50627511

It's a shame. Deux Ex 2 was bad, but Human Revolution was a fitting spiritual sequel to the original. There's some eligible waifu options, though.

>>50627529
>>50627545
(You)

The last one you are gonna get

>>50627464
>Why most sci-fi creators makes the poor going AGAINST cyborgisation is beyond me
Because they can't afford them or they have/forced by their superiors to use cheap and unreliable versions with drawbacks?

>>50627570
Only that's never the point and implants are usually so cheap you can literally have augmentation parole on every street corner in your average cyberpunk setting.
Same goes with their reliability, which is NEVER brought as an issue. At best, it's about the cutting-edge models being 5 times as good, but that's all - they are simply even better than the "basic" models.

But then again, I'm the type of guy who was playing CP2020 as a wheelchair-bound character, so it's not I don't understand the point.
I'm just pointing how economy and quality are all non-issues.

>>50627493
It's possible that the borging process itself is totally voluntarily and free (because it's Morgan and Deus Ex instead of Prime Function and CC). And the mass media just shows how great it is to be a cyborg from all standpoints.

As in, if you're weak, we can make you stronger, if you're stupid, we'll make you smarter, if you're hopeless, we'll give you a purpose, if you're lonely, we will connect you to a network of other minds which you can access literally by thinking, and everything is governed by someone who genuinely wishes the best for each citizen and cares little for personal gain, because function is the priority.

>>50627608
Because it's Morgan and Deus Ex instead of Prime Function and CC if it's not free, that is.

>>50627570
Drawing just from the immortal 2020 - you can replace half of your body with machine elements at a price corresponding to three months of paying rent and eating.

>>50627570
The entire point of cyberpunk is to make those so cheap an average Joe can afford them with ease, but in the same time can't afford a proper home. It's used to illustrate how fucked up the future society is rather than anything else.

>>50627602
>>50627570
Again, wealth in general grants only non-direct, if I can say so, benefits.

A poor guy with nothing can be just as strong, smart, and tough as a rich guy with everything. Hell, the rich guy is more prone to going fat and stupid due to decadent lifestyle.

Augmentations take that away, and it becomes "wealthy immortal superhumans above, and wretched diseased hobos below".

>>50627670
>Hell, the rich guy is more prone to going fat and stupid due to decadent lifestyle.
Not in the age of fast food and fat suction.

>>50627602
>>50627645
>>50627662
He asked about sci-fi not cyberpunk specifically though. Cyberpunk is dead.

>>50627345
I see a drone in need of some stapling...

>>50627733
Wow, so edgy...

I wish the Spartans were more than just military power they could have been better instead of getting stomped out early

>>50628217
The morale is a huge difference in early game. If you spam rovers and scoutsquads it's possible to absolutely roflstomp two or three neighbours within 80 turns.

>>50627464
You have to constantly take a unique drug if you have augmentations. You need multiple doses each day, or your body rejects the augmentations, potentially killing you. The poor are against augmentations because to get basic unskilled jobs like construction they are expected to cut off their fucking limbs and put artificial ones on, then keep taking this crazy drug every day for the rest of their life, and their employer won't pay for the drug or won't pay for all of it.

If this still sounds retarded, it is. The fucking Illuminati are involved, and at that point in any story I just mentally check out and just enjoy the game for gameplay and for how neat the sci-fi behind individual augmentations and inventions are. MST3K mantra basically.

>>50627438
revelation space spoiled me. no sci-fi is good enough for me after that shit

>>50626494
>>Easiest time running GURPS
I've been thinking of GMing the SMAX GURPS. But I have no experience at all with GURPS. Does the splatbook work well with GURPS 4e? If not, which edition fits best with it?

>>50628468
It's made for 3E, at least?

>>50628054
Projection: The Post.

>>50627712
Kinda only proves the point. If you can afford it, you can get prettier, have chronic illness cured, even get a new limb or organ, right now. Hell, David Rockefeller got his seventh donor heart last year. That means six guys died to donate him their hearts.

And those who can't afford it are pretty fucked. Augmentations will only worsen the situation.

>>50628432
>Shit I've just make up to complicate things that aren't complicated normally: The Post

>>50628506
>3E
>At least
Anon, 3E is around for pretty much the very start of GURPS. And was published roughtly a decade before SMAC even came to development.

So to sort them by ideology:

Believers: catholic nazis

University: mengele's children

Spartans: spartans?

Stepdaughters: tree-hugging hippies

Peacekeepers: beuraceauts

Hive: north koreans

Morgan: decadent capitalists

Cult: tree-fuckers

Cyborgs: borg

Drones: commies

Angels: ???

Pirates: ???

>>50629997
script kiddies & edgelord marines

>>50625218
The believers are the best faction.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTHH1dqsrsE

>>50629997

All the factions, while based on an ideology, could be traced to a futurist's idea of the world of the post-cold war, late 90s, before 9-11 fucked it all.

Believers: 1990s rise of the Christian USA right

University: 1990s Russian potential

Spartans: Latin American fuck ups form Venezuela to Honduras

Stepdaughters: The Environmentalists of the first world

Peacekeepers: the overextended, inefficent UN from Bosnia to Congo

Hive: post-USSR China with no dialback on economic control

Morgan: Decadent Capitalists, 1990s sole superpower USA/NYC

Cult: Well, the cults of the late 20st century - People's Temple, Aum Shinrikyo, Heavens Gate, Branch Davidians, Order of the Solar Temple, even lingering 80s fear about Thiestic Satanists, back when people were literally giving bodies, material, and cash to these NRMs enough to hit states. One could even consider today's Daesh to still be of the same vein.

Cyborgs: Leader is norwegian, but I have 0 fuck all clue about anything from that region even leading to technocracy other than a booming oil buisness and a flip-off to the environmentalists while being social democratic.

Drones: The Populist Social Democratic movements of Europe in the 90s

Angels: Early hacktivists and cyberpunk

Pirates: The micronation craze, pirates from Somalia to Indonesia

Quite ingenious, I always thought. Meanwhile, let's look at Civ BE factions:

ARC: Greedy America

PAC: Dengist China?

PAU: Rich Africa

Kav Prot: India's mohammed, everything'sokay now

Brasilia: Militant Brazil? Okay?

Franco Iberia: Fancy wrapped European Imperialism, Colonialism, and Racism

Polystrailia: Immigrants took over Australia as the Aussies feared

Slav Fed: Russia can go into space!

Al-Falah: Oh look we united and still kept hijabs but hey boobs.

NSA:Britians back into sea

Integr: Green Technocratic Germans, sorta plausible.

Chungsu: Korean company in charge of Korean elements...wait, what? What about the PAC?

>>50629997
Believers: ALLAH AKHBAR!
University: In this moment, I am euphoric, not because of some phony god's blessing, but because I am enlightened by my own intellect
Spartans: What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little bitch? I’ll have you know I graduated top of my class in... etc
Stepdaughters: 420 blaze it faggots the worms are our friends you have to accept them into your heart and your ass and your brain hey puff puff pass dogg
Peacekeepers: Mumble mumble sign this document we can't be allowed to interfere in the jibber jabber of herpi derpi
Hive: >implying human rights exist
Morgan: Greed helps me so the invisible hand can help you

Fuck expansion factions.

>>50630327
fucking ebin :DDD
can u teach me how to post as kool as you :DD
i learned some great maymes on reddit
can i join ur club

>>50630257

Adding to this, ignore everything I wrote for Civ BE, I'll redo that here.

ARC: Backstory is that they fixed America, making it into a corporate state. In game, they're more of an NSA analogy.

Al-Falah: Neo Arab Nationalism which is literally non-existent at this current time, though the Urban bonus is sort of happening due to the rich gulf cities.

Brasilia: A militant Brazil which, again, is non-existent at this time, Cuba has done more in the realm of military affairs than Brazil. Obvious Spartan ripoff with no meat to it.

Chungsu: A korean copy of the ARC, literally. Makes no sense due to PAC.

Franco Iberia: Politically Correct NeoImperialism, NeoColonialism, and NeoRacism under the banner of superior culture.

Kavithan Protectorate: Literal Indian version of Mohammed, what? Reversal of what makes the Indian Subcontinent unique from Pakistan, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka-Tamil Eelam? A complete 360, optimistic but...weird.

INTEGR: Green Technocratic Germanic states, a faction I like for backstory but the bonus is based of EU, doesn't fit.

North Sea Alliance: Brexit, Neo-Danelaw, Neo-Britannia, but for fishing than battleships. Sort of okay?

PAC: China on its present course into the future. One of the factions I'm really fine with, along with-

PAU: United Africa, ditto.

Polystrailia: Immigrants took over Australia, as the Aussies feared. Bonus is for trade, which sort of makes sense due to Indonesia but not Australia itself.

Slavic Federation: Russians back to space. I like em, could happen, better than Space Cossacks or Space Stalin/USSR

So, Civilization Beyond Earth, for me at least, was a hit...and a miss. Could had had more potential if the backstory and bonuses made more sense and were more palatable, along with, well, not being a reskin of CiV,

>>50625218

Oh, and to answer OP, Spartans for Vanilla, Drones for Expansion, yo

>>50630530
>Could had had more potential if the backstory and bonuses made more sense and were more palatable, along with, well, not being a reskin of CiV,
I liked it but I won't lie if I didn't wish for it to be more... memorable.

>>50630933

I know what you mean. I loved it, actually, RT brought a lot of fixes, but it fell short overall; and now it's all but officially abandoned.

We can only hope that, since it's only logical for Civ to go to space, maybe the next game has a CivBE/SMAC rehash on Mars or so, as it's own game and not just a project to grab cash inbetween other games.

They all have their upsides and downsides, but the downsides of some are bad and the downsides of others are worse. Remember, each of these factions is trying to build utopia and save mankind; they're all fundamentally good.

On the one hand,
Morgan: soulless capitalism
Zakharov: unethical experimentation
Lal: gholam waifu
Santiago: attack of the clones

And on the other hand you have
Miriam: we must jihad
Yang: my greatest gift to mankind is the genejack
Deirdre: mary had a little lamb, its fleece was white as snow

I think the biggest problem with the SMACX factions (other than being imba as fuck) was that they lacked nuance and shades of gray.

>>50631029
That would be nice. Maybe with one faction of Martian miners. I have soft spot for those.
Or Fall from Heaven and Rhye's something something, I liked those back in the day.

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>>50631040
>mary had a little lamb, its fleece was white as snow

>>50630257
>>50630530
>Pretending BE factions have any flavour at all
My fucking sides...

>>50631040
>SMAX factions lacked nuance and shades of gray
I guess we played different game then

>>50631040
>Le good Spartans meme
>Le evil Gaians meme
Shit's getting really stale

>>50631753
Gaians' good is better than Spartans' good and their evil is worse than the Spartans' evil. More interesting imo

>>50627072
Yang never made much sense to me. I hard to see how all the shit he does to his people supposed to be for their common good. It comes off more as Stalinist paranoia and weird-ass utilitarian planning.

>>50630257
Shit like this is why AC still hangs on as something to talk about. They actually put some fucking effort into designing factions that all have a theme, are not hugely implausible, were not just space-(whatever exists at the time/historical group caricatures), and all have their own gameplay style.
It's easy to imagine characters in any of these, either going along with or counter to the ideals of the group in major or minor ways, and it's easy to see a person behind each group as a driving force of the ideology.

>>50627345
>"benovelent dictator" bullshit
Are other fractions different on that front with their immortal leaders-for-life?

>>50631797
>It comes off more as Stalinist paranoia and weird-ass utilitarian planning.
Then it comes exactly as what it's supposed to be, comrade.

>>50631882
Nope, but the main difference is how they are organised in GURPS setting. And only Yang and Miriam are outright leaders for life and beyond. Not even Santiago goes that path and she's in the most hierarchical of all factions, since, duh, military

>>50631797
Anon, Yang is pretty much North Korea with 1984 mixed in and later switching more toward Brave New World with technological progress.
And going by the popular theory "If you have quotes, you were still around at this stage of the meta-plot", Yang disappeared from the scope of of everyone in the early late game.
Most likely meaning extinction.

>>50627349
>Those who join us need give up only half of their humanity--the illogical, ill-tempered, and disordered half, commonly thought of as 'right-brain' functioning. In exchange, the 'left-brain' capacities are increased to undreamed potential

Even if they as for your consent the fact that all (or most) of their people have the right hemisphere replacement done indicates that there's at least some serious push and cultural conditioning to get implants. If you consider all the stuff right-brain does to be important to human experience that seems like a pretty shitty environment to raise children into.

Also, the explanation for their growth weakness is pretty damn silly.

>>50627464
Consciousness' implants aren't some cool "human but better" stuff. They straight up take out your right hemisphere and replace it with math.

>>50628217
For me Spartans don't seem very interesting. Basing your whole fraction on right to bear arms is too damn narrow. Same with Hackers and Pirates.

>>50627335
>>50627438

Reminder: The members of the cybernetic consciousness really don't like having sex.

>>50632474
So?
It's like you assume people in porn bussiness must be all nymphomaniacs and love their job.

>>50632524

All I'm saying is if you're going to waifu a faction leader maybe don't waifu the one with cybernetic turbo-autism who's ideology leads them to think of sex as a weird and slightly disgusting chore.

>>50632581
I'm not even one of those anons, anon. And if I was going for waifu, then Deidre is love, Deidre is life.
I'm just pointing out "not into sex" doesn't mean it doesn't give people a stiffy. Then there is the part when I'm perfectly capable of understanding how one can percieve sex as a weird and very disgusting chore, yet not exactly see how could I assume someone is not enjoying it.

In short - CC asexuality doesn't make them any less waifu material and part of sexual fantasy. It's like you don't even fully understand where you are and how close you are to pics of amputees lesbians fucking each other with 15 inch horse cocks.

>>50632724
>three feet long horse cocks
ftfy

>>50632051
>>50632292
>commonly thought of as 'right-brain' functioning

That is not a literal statement about removing half the brain. It's figurative.

>>50629997
The Alpha Centauri Spartans are totally Heinlein groupies. I seriously can't believe none of you picked up on that.

>>50633150
>I seriously can't believe none of you picked up on that.
>Implying plural
Anon...

>>50626184

End result is Morgan Industries economically dominating the Peacekeepers while the Free Drones are kept as a mostly irreverent prison colony (like Australia is).

>>50633485
>Implying Morganites by the end are anything else than disorganised, multibranch economical entity, without any actual "country" left
>Implying Peacekeepers can't just fuck their operation with handful of regulations
>Implying Morgan wasn't just deposed and now it's his nephew running the company
You weren't paying much attention to details, have you?

>>50632336

Spartans are basically Putin's Russia.

>>50633150
There's a good degree of Frank Herbert's philosophies mixed in there too, with the emphasis on independance and strength.

>>50633605
I guess you neither played the game nor know where Russia even is located, not to mention how things go there.

>>50633605
Either haven't actually played AC or haven't been to Russia. Or both.

>>50633605
>>50633784

Werent they mexican?

>>50633605

A game developed in 97-98 would not base a faction off a midling in Russian politics.

Two things have defined the 21st century no one in the 90s forsaw: 9-11, and Putin.

Spartans are based off Venezuela, Panama, Puerto Rico, and Nicaragua in the 80s and 90s - a smudge of coups, independence groups, left wing nationalism, and resentment towards the bigger powers, from the BLA to the Orteganists to Noregian loyalists.

Ironically enough, for now, Latin America has all but cooled down, for the time being.

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>>50633841
Yes, hyper-militarized Mexicans.

>>50633964

Fucking Gaians

>>50633964
Sauce? Reverse gives nothing

>>50634016
Yes, fucking Gaians. Still better than being fucked by Gaians.

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>>50633964

>>50633909
It's kind of ironic. Originally SMAC was shocking due to the "wow, today, but future!" schtick and how well-researched it was. Fast-forward 15 years later and the game stands out, because "wow, such great world-building and fiction politics!"
Which means that either way it was well-written game.

Compare that with the ultimate blandness of BE. Can you imagine something so flavourless as BE capturing people to the point of having semi-related threads on wrong boards about the game and pretending it's still /tg/ related?

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>>50634085

>>50634026
http://rule34.paheal.net/post/view/1531007

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>>50634111

>>50634089

Only if BE worked as much as a social commentary as a prediction.


>>50631824

See above

>>50634424
BE didn't work on anything at all, which is my main point

>>50630530
the problem is that none of that really showed through in the game.

>>50632581
It might still be very possible to have fun with Aki.

There is nothing said anywhere that stops them feeling pleasure.

Assuming her nation remains one of many then she will, for their same, have to look presentable. Having the rest of world think they are disgusting would have a negative behavioural outcome.

Fashion and style do not compute easily, especially not for her early prototype brain.

She would need to hire a baseline human to dress her up and make her pretty for meeting foreign leaders. Dressing her up to be a pretty princess could be fun. Giving her loving and gentle massages to help her move more gratefully and appear more relaxed, your touch causing confusion in her machine parts as they try to deal with the strangeness of her flesh parts reaction.

>>50634629
>the problem is that none of that really showed anywhere
ftfy

If not fandom literally spinning entire backstories and agendas from faction names and their bonuses, we've got nothing in that game.
It's one huge-ass fanon in a game that doesn't even have enough initiative to be anything beyond neon-coloured reskin of Civ 5

>>50634629

That's the whole point of my post.

>>50634882

You do know the Civpedia has entries for the leaders and sponsors, right? And that Civ itself published 'interviews'? It's not 'fanon'. It's canonical.

>>50634907
>Implying anyone even looked there
Not him, but remind me - did we have that sort of quantity of material in SMAC, while we are still discussing it, years later?
That game was a full-on failure. I still don't understand what the fuck they were thinking while making it. I know they've panicked themselves in later stages, so suddenly the entire marketing was focused on "This is not a remake or sequel of SMAC! Don't compare with SMAC!", but we all knew it was too late for damage control.

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>>50633964

>>50625218
Got it in one, OP.

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>>50634976

SMAC's 'civopedia' was very sparse. A lot of the info came from the technology, manual, novels, and wonders. See the pic - I just took it.

As for Civ BE, it was, to me, a mod for CiV. It had potential, sure, but as someone who came from SMAC and CIV, CiV itself was a bit lackluster, and Civ BE was sparse. RT was a step in the right direction, but too little, too late; and now it's abandoned.

>>50635039

Adding to this, I have high hopes for CiVI, however. Little details are back in droves, from wonder movies to victory 'movies', and while there are jarring issues with the release, there always is with the series, and I hope the expansion packs and...dlc...might make it a damn good game. CIV was sparse before Warlords and Beyond the Sword. CiV was sparse before G&K and BNW. Civ BE was weird before RT. CiVI is sparse now. So on and so on.

>>50635093
Then I guess you didn't play the actual game yet.
It's worse than vanilla, fresh-from-release hot garbage that was Civ 5. I'm still unable to graps what the fuck is going with this entire franchise ever since BtS was released. It's like they've fired back then everyone with at least two brain cells to rub together and got bunch of morons who never before had contact with the series in replacement.
Cavemen2Cosmos is where Civ should be right now. Instead we've got BE and Civ VI

>>50635160

Someone who types 'Civ BE was weird before RT' has a high probability of having played the game in question, before and after the expansion pack. It was okay. It wasn't terrible. It was just lackluster, especially compared to the giant that is SMAC

>>50635039
SMAC was basically a FUCKING TEST GAME while working on Civ 3. They had to check few options and different options in practice. Just like Paradox made Sengoku just to check scripts and ideas for CK2.

>>50635039
Those are the quotes from when you select a nation. Yes - SMAC's flavor came across in the info it presented you whenever you completed a building for the first time, made a wonder, researched a new technology. That's much better than putting together an appendix that most people won't even glance at.

>>50635294
This

Who fucking cares if BE has about 50 pages of backstory if you would print it, if it has no meaning for the game and is all about people you don't really interact or bond with. It's just there. In the same time you have almost NO backstory for things going on Earth, you have NO story about what's going on the planet you landed on (since it's just a semi-generic Random Weird Looking But Earthlike Enough Planet) or the stuff going around. Buildings translate to nothing, quotes bring nothing else but really tired jokes (and most of them fall so flat it's funny due to that) and the personalities of other faction leaders is non-existing

Compare that with SMAC. It gave us a clear signal that Earth is on the brink. You KNOW it's on the brink and you know you are watching last alive humans. And those humans fight each other rather than cooperate. This instantly creates a tension
Then you have only minor informations provided about the "characters" in the game, but those informations are tailored to what they do, how they act and how they behave. Using just cue words and basic AI programming, it was possible to fucking create 7 different, distinctive personalities, with their goals, agendas, angles of approach and simply just interacting with you, rather than having some boring backstory you need to read if you care. That translated to everything else - all quotes, lines and videos served the purpose of presenting the story and the setting. You know Spartans have this hard and outright nasty training not because reading a description about it, but because part of the training was breaking guy's arm just so he could understand how important flexibility and accomodation are for combat. We know how life in each faction looks like just due to Rec Common quote. Because it provides just enough to get you thinking while playing, rather than serving you full plate AND doing so outside of the game. Remember that shock when you've realised what EXACTLY recycle means?

>>50635680
tl;dr:
BE is "tell, tell and tell some more... preferably in a different room, because it has no meaning for the game"
SMAC is "show, don't tell"

And most of it was achieved by just few lines and MAYBE a short video cut from a fucking experimental documentry.

>>50635680
>>50635696
Recon fucking Rick.

His entire story boils down to 4 sentences. He's an insignificant character. You know jack shit about him. You don't even know for sure if he was Morgan Industries employee.
And yet you have this perfect balance between knowing his story, knowing how the setting works and all the room left to fill up all the details by yourself.

In those four sentences you've learned more than you could by reading a short story about it, which BE would eagerly provide.

I think the Hive is the faction that would be most conducive to ensuring humanity's survival if we were ever to actually maroon ourselves on an intently hostile world with extremely limited resources. After a few centuries, sure, the Talents can split off into factions, but ideology and individualism are psychological luxuries that mankind would not realistically be able to afford in the beginning stage of the game.

>>50635792
>Recon fucking Rick

>Richard Baxton piloted his Recon Rover into a fungal vortex and held off four waves of mind worms, saving an entire colony. We immediately purchased his identity manifests and repackaged him into the Recon Rover Rick character with a multi-tiered media campaign: televids, touchbooks, holos, psi-tours-- the works. People need heroes. They don't need to know how he died clawing his eyes out, screaming for mercy. The real story would just hurt sales, and dampen the spirits of our customers.

Here's the other thing. This is as perfect a snapshot as you could want of the Morganites and how they behave and think. And all of the quotes are like that. They're like these little flashbulbs going off, illustrating a single moment or a character, or an event. Giving flavor while allowing an individual narrative to emerge from gameplay.

>>50636291
The Hive is efficient. Ruthlessly efficient.
It provides for the barebone unavoidable needs of individuals but otherwise dedicate every single ressource to the State.
It's stalinism/maoism at its worst... and yet, I agree : if survival of the species is the goal, then the Hive has the right idea.

>>50635696
*tell in the same fucking voice for every character

Jesus Christ. That was bizarrely stupid decision making. They already had voice actors. Why did they have just one Indian lady reading everyone else's flavour text?

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>>50636830
The main counterpoint is the idea that survival is not enough.

That said, with the state of earth it does become not just reasonable, but attractive to go with the hive just so the species doesn't end. and just hope something more comes of it later.

I personally Go with the Consciousness. More for the trans-humanism, less for the removal of emotions. But I'm an avowed technophile so I may be biased.

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I've modded SMAC sitting there for couple of months now. I now and then read the manual and the wiki and I get incredibly hyped, but I never start it up. I am just so intimidated by the scope and complexity, coming from a guy who's only real Civ games before this was 5 and bit of BE.

>>50640406
It's really not that complex. Civ 4 is worse.

>>50640560
Positively? The manual atleast is huge with tons of different things and mechanics explained, outside the flavor text.

>>50625218
I've just started playing it and I already hate alien bullies.

>>50640406

Honestly, it's very intuitive, on the whole. The game has a solid built in tutorial, and the in game encyclopaedia is very well laid out.

The basics are very easy to pick up, and the more complex stuff is more complex simply because there's a lot of alternatives in how you handle things. But it's not a hard game, on the whole. If you've played any 4X game before, like 5, you shouldn't find it hard to acclimatise yourself to.

>>50640627
Exactly. It's comprehensive, but the basics can be summarised in a sentence or two. The PRACTICAL needs of the player are met very quickly. You don't really need to know the actual formulas unless you want to. It's enough to know that it's cheap to make units that don't have high stats across the board, and that more terraforming and industry = angrier worms/barbarians.

>>50640406
It's not that complex, about as hard as Civ4 but interface is worse.

>>50640714
Should I plant forests everywhere so fungus won't pop up, ruin my improvements and invade my territory later?

>>50640714
>>50640731
Fair enough. I'll just have to man up and try to play it. Those drones dont nerve staple themselves after all.

>>50639663
For me, both Hive and CC are about transhumanism, but percieved differently, achieved differently and done for different reasons.
CC is your classic sci-fi "we have the technology" mind-machine mix. It comes as cold, logical and calculating, but in the same time unlocks so much human potential it easily appeals to everyone with the sleak design and going for the improvement of an individual.
On the other hand there is Hive, which goes for "mind over matter" approach and extreme social engineering, with entire groups of people not even taught how to read, but able to withstand shit that would break psyche of just about everyone as if nothing happend. Meanwhile it's the worst kind of oppressive technocracy you can imagine, culminating in designer babies. And the most important difference is how it's all about collective, completely ignoring individuality.

But in the very core, both are Transhumanism: The Faction.

The irony comes from how people compare Hive with Free Drones, mostly because (supposedly) similar ideology and goals, focusing mostly on the maoistic aspect of Hive rather than transhuman one.
And last time I've checked, Yang provided all the pro-transhuman quotes in the game, but not a single one about being a commie.

>>50640406
SMAC, gameplay-wise, is Civ 2.5. So it's slightly above the complexity of Civ 2 or FreeCiv, the most baseline experience you can get in the franchise, and few elements that made Civ 3, the bare bones gameplay.

But all things considered, it's extremely simple game. My advice - either play Civ 2 first a bit OR don't shy from cheating your way through first few playthroughs. I still remember my first playthrough and it was 95% cheating.
Still shattered me to the core.

>>50629997
>Believers: catholic nazis
Except they're mainline american protestants so neither one applies.

>>50640787
>Yang provided all the pro-transhuman quotes in the game, but not a single one about being a commie.
Maybe it wasn't real communism

>>50640748
Very long story very short: If a square is below 2000 m above sea level - plant forest. It's only more profitable to get farm/solar panels combo above 2k meters.

And try to get AT LEAST TWO boreholes per base.

Rush Weather Paradigm no matter what, but remember that unless you unlock certain techs, you are limited to farming max 2 resources from a square, unless said square has extra resources on it.

Which brings us to the next basic step - don't feel bad about save-scumming when you are going to search Unity pods. There is a fuck-huge difference when getting, say, extra nutrient and free technology, and getting spawn of mindworms. On single player it is well worth it to save-scum through this.

>>50640885
Of course it wasn't, that's my entire point. Meanwhile a LOT of people paint him as a commie, because they think that if you are straight out of 1984 and Brave New World, then you must be a communist by default.

>>50640901
>And try to get AT LEAST TWO boreholes per base.
Planet is going to kill me

>>50640748
Also, one very important thing.

Try to get a fungus pop ASAP, and definitely before you will build your first Tree Farm. Another very long story very short - there is a bug in the game that fucks up completely how eco-damage works and to avoid the bug, you need to get a fungus pop before you build your first Tree Farm, Hybrid Forest, Centauri Preserve or Temple of the Planet. Otherwise you are going to get fucked in the mid and late game due to having your "clean minerals" capped at the initial value and never expanding above it, which will cripple your economy and production on the long run.

It might appear to be too complex to grasp, but here is a full explaination of why and what exactly is going on: http://alphacentauri2.info/wiki/Ecology_(Revised)
tl;dr - get fungus pop ASAP and only then build your first facility reducing eco-damage.

>>50640927
Not really, just read this: >>50640962

It's all bug-related and the eco-damage reducing facilities are broken, UNLESS you trigger a fungus pop before building any of them.
In short - rather than avoid getting fungus pop at all, try to get ONE and BEFORE you will even have means to improve your eco-damage.

>>50640962
>>50640975
Also, if you don't want to get fucked by AI triggering global warming in mid game - try to force on as many factions as possible fungus pop ASAP, since the whole eco-damage increase is faction-wide and you getting benefit of eco-damage reduction still doesn't mean AI will. Meanwhile early game clean minerals are so low, it's very easy to avoid getting global warming AND prevent it in the future if you time things right.
Go as far as use cheat mode if you have to and edit save file to remove "Cheater" notion, but it really saves the problems in later stages of the game

>>50633598
Not to the details you just Made up, no.

>>50640962
>fungus pop ASAP
noob to SMAC here, What does that meant?

>>50640885
If something doesn't work or lotsa people die, it retroactively never was true communism. We all know that, It's an iron rule that applies universally.

>>50641164
Anon, I was refering to
>Yang provided all the pro-transhuman quotes in the game, but not a single one about being a commie

>>50641187
I know.

>>50641213
In that case you comment looks pointless

>>50641081
Ok, long story long. Not sure how familiar you are with the gameplay and game mechanics, so I will try to tell everything.

Production is based on amount of minerals your base gathers from squares within the base direct surroundings and/or potential supply crawlers working outside.
There is a soft limit of so-called "clean minerals". Any amount of minerals above that limit is causing eco-damage. After causing enough eco-damage or outright hitting the limit in single turn, the Planet, being sentient being defending itself from viral infection called humans, reacts.
That reaction is fungus bloom or fungus pop. Suddenly in the middle of your territory, a semi-randomly picked square is covered in xenofungus. And said new fungus square usually comes with mind worms inside.

In short, fungus pop is the weaker defense reaction the Planet has against eco-damage. The stronger reaction is just global warming, which not only causes a massive fungus bloom all around the Planet, but of course rise a sea-levels, which in turn can fuck entire humanity sideways rather than very localised damage to single base.

And since not everyone is familiar with the term: ASAP = As Soon As Possible.

>>50641164
>>50641213
(You)

>>50640962
>>50640975
>>50640994
Confirming on this. Without fungus bloom caused by eco-damage you will be locked around 30 minerals or so, or the xenofungus will eat your bases alive.
Without exploiting anything at all and just building things, by mid game your clean mineral limit will be around 70. And since forests are the best square improvement, you will build in each of your bases Tree Farm and Hybrid Forest, meaning each and every of your bases will add AT LEAST +2 to clean minerals limit. So by having ten bases, a pretty average mid-game size, your clean minerals limit is more than doubled.

With exploiting the living shit out of the system, I've managed to get a base producing 200 minerals per turn WITHOUT any eco-damage. That included a borehole with mineral bonus (not to mention 6 boreholes within said base) and bunch of satelites. I've only stopped, because there was no point pushing it further.

In short - just make sure you get fungus bloom early on, the sooner the better, and then just build forest-related buildings. It should be more than enough. If you feel like it, Centauri Preserve is an option too (and the building best suited for exploiting the system to get huge amounts of clear minerals by building & selling CPs all the time)

>>50641164
Please explain us what the hell it had to do with the discussion, aside being very weak bait?

>>50641052
>made up
Not even him. but you must be really new to SMAC if you don't know one of the most popular theories about the meta-plot

>>50641277
>>50641499
Ok then. I'll explain.
If Yang was portrayed as a benevolent leader, you'd be all be on about how Yang explains how to realize good transhumanist comunism.
Since he's portayed as joker level evil, he's not really communist.

>>50641735
I have the original game from '99, And this is retarded.

>>50641745
>Still trying
You've already got your (You), so what else do you want, you fucking attention whore?

>>50641752
Have doesn't mean you've played it.
Playing doesn't mean possessing reading comprehension.

Let me ask you - who do you think connected with the Planet in the meta-plot?

Or are you at least aware Gaians wiped out Spartans canonically, without the Spartans even realising they were at war and not just fighting the local wildlife?

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>>50641772
>Gaians wiped out Spartans canonically
Since when your head-canon is canon?

>>50642026

I think he refers to this

Against such abominations, we organize our defenses on the principle that one strong and able mind can shield the many.
Spartan Battle Manual
Accompanies the Secret Project "The Neural Amplifier"
The klaxon began to wail, but we felt the reassuring tingle of the Tachyon Field crackling to life around us, encasing the entire base in its impenetrable glow.
Spartan Kel, "The Fall of Sparta"


Until now the battle had been proceeding smoothly. The enemy was outflanked and had been driven from the reactor housing, but against the reactor itself the matter cannons were strangely ineffective. Rounds simply... stopped. In mid-air.
Col. Corazon Santiago, "A Tactical History of Sparta"


As the writhing, teeming mass of mindworms swarmed over the outer perimeter, we saw the defenders recoil in horror. "Stay calm! Use your flame guns!" shouted the commander, but to no avail. It is well know that the Mind Worm Boil uses psychic terror to paralyze its prey, and then carefully implants ravenous larvae into the brains of its still-conscious victims. Even with the best weapons, only the most disciplined troops can resist this horrific attack.
Lady Deirdre Skye, "Our Secret War"
Accompanies the Secret Project "The Citizen's Defense Force"

>>50642239
How about the most pointgaint example?

As we approached we were confronted by the ruined splendor of Sparta Command. The true immensity of the place became instantly apparent as our Quantum Tank crunched over the rubble and parked next to a shattered bunker, but the extent of the destruction took weeks to assess. The shielded datacore had sustained several massive breaches and smoke still billowed from the numerous cannon ports. There were few signs of human life.

Lady Deirdre Skye
"Our Secret War"

>>50642262

https://youtu.be/1DT56Imed9w?t=22s

Yep, that's Sparta Command gone alright, incanon.

>>50641772
I'm curious. Do you have a link where I can read up on those meta plot ideas?

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>>50642239
>>50642262
"Mary had a little lamb" infamous mind-screw comes as a final transmission from one of Spartan bases, too.

Long story short, hippies wiped the floor with gung-ho militarists with the power of love.

>>50642311
The canonical storyline is: Deirdre is the protagonist and completes the Ascent to Transcendance
Outside-of-game media aside, the interludes are clearly conversations with planet. Much of the game makes no sense if, for example, you play Miriam and have your protege meld with a mindworm boil. In addition, Miriam dies going through a flawed psi gate; Zakharov clearly goes over-the-top bananas in the aftermath of the Lab Three incident; and Santiago is defeated by the Gaians' mindworms. Less ominously, Yang and Morgan stop contributing to quotes after tech level 10 or so, having little to nothing to say about some rather momentous events. Plus, if you look at them all, an environmentalist and humanitarian who occasionally crosses the line into ecoterrorism is at least a few steps ahead of a Mad Scientist, Corrupt Corporate Executive, Knight Templar, Evil Overlord, and Colonel Kilgore. There is, of course, Lal, but some of the technology that makes the Ascent possible clearly offends his sensibilities due to its potential for abuse.
Made even more obvious since Deidre provides the quotations for the Ascent to Transcendence and Transcendent Thought projects.
Morgan stops contributing to quotes after tech level 10, but Morgan Industries keeps being quoted, implying that Morgan either retreated from the public or was ousted by T.M. Morgan-Reilly.
Morgan probably surrendered to Lal and Morganites reverted to being a big company in a democracy.

>TBC

>>50642328
My guess: Dierdre and Lal are Pact Sister and Brother, with Lal distinctly the junior partner, maintaining an uneasy peace with the Morganites. Morgan himself is retired, giving the responsibilities of management to his son or nephew (T.M. Morgan-Reilly). The University probably still exists, but Zakharov's post-Lab Three campaign against the mindworms earned him a Gaian-Peacekeeping "police action," with one of his underlings (Petrov, perhaps) being installed as the new Provost. Yang and Miriam are probably seriously weakened, and it would be highly realistic for them to be hated enough by the Gaians, Peacekeepers, Morganites, and University for them to be the pariah states of this world—and come to think of it, let's just compare the Hive to North Korea and the Believers to Iran.note In the end, Dierdre Ascends, with Lal joining in (per the Pact), and Morgan goes back to recolonize Earth.
Equally possible is that Zakharov's rant after the Lab Three incident was just a Heroic B.S.O.D. and he got better. As he's the one who describes the events leading up to the transcendence and is the best candidate to figure out how to break the ongoing cycle, he has to have been around and instrumental to the process up until at least that point. Perhaps a tri-lateral pact between Dierdre, who was the one in tune with Planet, Lal, who had the military firepower to support the alliance without Santiago's extremism, and Zakharov, who had the scientific knowledge and logical outlook to figure the whole transcendence thing out?
Considering that the game allows trilateral cooperative victory and survival of surrendered factions, it is safe to assume that Lady D, Zack and Lal are the three deities of Chiron, while the others are either destroyed Santiago and Myraim, in the above mentioned fall of Sparta and transporter incident respectively or have surrendered to the pact. Morgan and Yang, who faded away quietly

>TBC

>>50642344
Concerning Zak, since he aims for research, he will usually pick Knowledge and Cybernetics as a Social Model. Guess what other benefits Cybernetics has. +2 Planet (which also allows you to catch the worms, he condemned so much after the Lab Three incident). Which probably enabled him also to speak with Planet. After constructing "Voice of Planet", he is quoted from his work, which is aptly named "Planet Speaks", which is also the only quote, this work provides. Given that Cybernetics is a late-game social model, it makes sence.
To sum up the above discussion...
Acording to in-game materials, Deirdre is the protagonist and completes the Ascent to Transcendance in a trilateral cooperative victory, with Lal and Zakharov as pact brothers, Lal being distinctly the junior partner. Morganites have surrendered, probably to Lal, reverting to Morgan Industries, a company in a democracy; and Morgan has retired, replaced by T.M. Morgan-Reilly. The Hive is a pariah state, hated by everyone else for its social choices, and disconnected from the latest events. Believers and Spartans were defeated after their leaders died in a psi gate accident and Gaian mindworm attack respectively. Zakharov has a momentary BSOD following Lab Three incident but gets better when Cybernetic Society enables him to tame mindworms; and he is instrumental in making the Voice of Planet. Deidre, Zakharov and Lal are the three deities of Chiron.

>>50642344

> Morgan goes back to recolonize Earth

I know who I'll follow, then.

>>50642328
>>50642344
>>50642358
This is a summary of a long-ass thread from sadly defunct forum, re-formatted to fit TV Tropes.

>>50629804
It's the plot of Deus Ex: Human Revolution. Also, a major problem with cybernetics right now is that the human body is prone to reject them.

>>50642464

But nowhere near the level of the need for Neuroprozone; and if there was, the sum is to not Hugh Darrow it, but to have external implants.

"Immune response to implants is commonly reported in the literature and can include hypersensitivity related to pacemakers, dental implants, and orthopedic hardware. [1] Furthermore, as many as 13% of people are sensitive to nickel, cobalt, or chromium. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9] The development of metal sensitivity after implantation of orthopedic hardware is common. [1, 10, 11, 12]
Metal sensitivity is also correlated with osteolysis and aseptic loosening of implanted metal hardware. [5, 10, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18] However, statistical reviews of cases involving adverse reactions after implantation of metal hardware demonstrate that metal sensitivity can be proven causative in fewer than 0.1% of cases in which sensitivity reactions exist. [1, 19, 20, 21, 22]"

Immune Response to Implants
Author: Steven I Rabin, MD; Chief Editor: Jason H Calhoun, MD, FACS

>>50642528

Sort of like this: if your body does reject implanted implants, just put on one of those brain wave readers, attach an external aid instead of an embedded implant, and hope the wifi doesn't give out, or somesuch. Hugh darrow didn't need that bloody cane, he could had easily added an exo-chassis to his leg and arm but didn't want to because he was just too blinded by resentment to take the option.

>>50640787
I don't see a problem calling the Hive communist. It might not look like a faithful application of Marx's ideas but it does look like North Korea, i.e. Stalinist and most people do consider Stalinism a form of communism.

As for transhumanism, it kinda makes sense. Marx's ideas about the future of society were a product of their time and were influenced his contemporaries Hegel and Feuerbach. Hegel believed in mystical inevitability of historical progress from oriental empire to greek democracy to Christian constitutional monarchy as a hightest form of freedom and actualisation. Feuerbach developed an atheistic form of the idea of logical societal progress called historical materialism. From Marx's nineteen century perspective the logical end-goal of history was a class-less post-scarcity society and getting there is what communism is about. For modern futurist "lmao sigularity and apotheosis" might seem like a more logical end-goal.

Daily reminder that Miriam did NOTHING wrong

What about the canonical expansion plot?

I remember something about Domai starting a revolution, killing Yang with a wrench and hijacking a colony pod. And he probably out-teched everyone and won by conquest, because it's his quote is on endgame string supergun.

Meme on me all you want but SMAX felt like too much of a good thing
>tech tree bloated out
>new factions except they all suck
>aliens are overpowered
SMAC feels near-perfect as it is. Anything else felt bloated

>>50642728
>new factions except they all suck
Drones and pirates are pretty good

>>50640748

Forests are an excellent all-around option for terraforming, particularly with later base improvements. They also spread themselves, so that saves a bit of time for your formers. Having said that, fungus pops up for a few reasons, and depending on your secret projects, planet score, and specific terraforming, sometimes other options are better. Boreholes, solar condensers, etc, all offer significant advantages, so sometimes it might pay to have at least a few bases focused on production rather than keeping Planet happy.

Patrols also help a lot, or sensors. Remember that initiating an attack against worms both increases your effective psi (3 for attacker, 2 for defender), and gives you money when you win, so often encountering more natives can be quite a boon, particularly if you have the planet score to capture some of them.

>>50642328
>Miriam dies going through a flawed psi gate
Where does that come up?

>>50642813
>Go through, my children! The time of miracles is upon us. Let us cast off sin and walk together to the Garden of the Lord.
>With God’s mercy we shall meet again on the other side.

>—Sister Miriam Godwinson,
>“Last Testament”

That's the quote for the psi-gate tech. It is also, I think, the last quote from her.

I've seen an alternate theory that she led a Heaven's Gate-esque ritual suicide, though, perhaps because she abhorred the idea of the ascendance? That's perhaps not textually supported, though.

I don't know about best. But I always had this sense that certain factions making it into late game and then winning was more canonical than others. The quotes in late game techs and projects start to be by only a handful of them like the gaians and the believers, and there's even some quotes that come from a work called "the fall of sparta". Considering that the voice of planet talks to Deirdre it seems plausible that she's the canonical winner.

Of course I'm just working from memory here.

>>50642748
This. Also Cybernetics. I really like them after Believers they are my favourite faction to play.

Cult of Planet and Data Angels would probably have worked better as natural disaster style events and event sequences.

>>50642748
>Pirates
>Good
Why? They seem kinda one-note like Data Angels or Spartans.

>>50643105
>They seem kinda one-note
They are untouchable early on in the seas

>>50642992
The worst girl wins even in Western strategy games. There is no escape from this curse.

>>50643286
>deirdre
>worst
>when mirriam is right there

I realize mirriam gets memed on a lot but come on now

>>50625218

Sheesh, I forgot how much that guy looked like John Cena, but with a dumb haircut.

>>50643339
You mean Santiago.

>>50643105
Play as the Pirates.
Start going for Centauri Ecology.

Make a former.
Make colony pod.
Build the Weather Paradigm with the first colony.

Your 1st former is going to seed seaweed everywhere you plan on settling.

Go for Applied Physics
Then for Industrial Base

Your 2nd colony will build a former and then a colony pod, then a military ship.
That former will build 8 tidal harnesses around the base, then it will be used to build more tidal harnesses to other bases

The third colony follows the same pattern.
And all colonies after that too.
Once they have build those 3 units, they can do several things :
- build more colony pods, which will snowball your growth exponentially
- build more ships, which will help you dominate the waves but can affect your mineral production.
- build infrastructure

Focus on paths that boost your military.
The Weather Paradigm lifted all limitations for ressource gathering so you are now racking 3 food and 3 energy per square.

You don't have a land army but you don't need to :
The other factions focused on a land army so their own navy is rather small.
You focused only on your navy so you can keep any single navy at bay.
Once things get serious, you'll have free naval yards on ALL bases, giving you a nice bonus for battle.
And with all that energy, upgrading ships isn't hard.

You don't have to fear early game rush because the other faction will take a long time to get the technology to get to you in the first place, let alone defeat your fleet.

By the time a faction can reach you, you either have the tech lead because of all that energy or you have enough ships and bases that you build stuff faster than everyone.

>>50643286
Dierdre's probably best girl in SMAC, but that's only because she's up against fuckin' Santiago and Miriam.

Once you get to SMAX things change up a bit, though, and best girl loses. And Domai wins, somehow.

>>50643475
Accept the bromance, anon

>>50643475
Trying to determine any kind of plot from SMAX is a fool's errand, I think, and I don't think that any real canon exists there.

>>50643266
Speaking of pirates, I've played a few multiplayer games, and they always land right next to the fucking monsoon jungle.

>>50643475
>>50643529

I take SMAX as a gaiden collection, all the little side-factions that are too small for the flagship SMAC. For example it's clear that the Free Drones are split from Morgan (as if Australia had a communist revolution against England in the 1920s) and Cult of Planet is what happens when Gaian missionaries successfully convert Hive workers (similar to Jesuits in China). The Cybernetics and Data Angels both seem to be offshoots of the University, and the Pirates being split from Santiago.

I can't remember but what's the minimum value for ocean generation in the random terrain generator? I don't think it goes below 30%.

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>>50640787
I never thought of it like that, but I think you are right.
I may be misunderstanding but are you basically saying the hive is trans-humanism via social sciences rather than medical sciences?
(of course all the factions have a touch of the transhuman. from immortality, to genetic engineering, to near the end uploaded digital minds)

>>50640885
pic related

>>50643266
>Putting gameplay above fluff value
Not to mention they can end up more fucked than any other faction and the moment boreholes start rolling in quantity, pirates are fucking useless

>>50643475
fluff wise, the drones are from the Hive, the Cultists are from Gaia and the data angels are from Morgan.

>>50643358
Everyone is better than Miriam. And if you consider her AI behaviour canon, then even fucking Yang and Cult are better than this stupid, stupid bitch.

>>50643905
The Free Drones split from everyone's drones, but Domai was a Hive drone originally (after his memory was damaged in the Planetfall crash). The Data Angels split from Morgan Industries. The Pirates, I think, were always independent, and the Cult of Planet recruited from everyone, but Cha Dawn had a Gaian mother.

>>50643469
So basically Free Drones, but much less efficient and with gimmick mechanics?

Thanks, I will pass.

Seriously, the only reason why anyone would profit from playing as pirates would be getting high-water map and then proceed to just drowning everyone with melting polar caps.

>>50643932
>the Cultists are from Gaia
Nope, they are on their own.
>data angels are from Morgan
AND Peacekeepers.

>>50643921
>are you basically saying the hive is trans-humanism via social sciences rather than medical sciences?
Yep.

Just recall all quotes about human mind from Yang. It's a shitload of the "Far East mysticism" in tune of "if you try hard enough, you are going to turn into superhuman". Only rather than using it as a propaganda tool or shit like that, they are rising kids from the very start by the state, under the state supervision. Since they are starting with relatively small number, within two generations you have a completely remodeled society that can't even question the way it's organised, because there is nobody left alive to remember things being different.

That doesn't mean Yang won't eventually go for medical science - he's the biggest supporter of all kinds and sorts of purely biological engineering, like retroviral stuff or genejacks (daily reminder genejack is a purposefully designed clone-like being and NOT human butchered to be a pseudo-cyborg). But his basical agenda is about creating humanity transpiring limitations that tradition, social stigma and social constructs present on Earth via nothing else than a FUCKLOAD of social engineering.
The sole organisation of each Hive bunker is a great example of it. They are intentionally build as overcrowded, thus not allowing anyone, at any time to have private space and private room, and everything is shared. Everything is designed with the same utilitarian approach, so the disparity is made null and void due to lack of commodities that could represent your status or even ability to have such commodities. Within few generations people don't even want to have such stuff, because once again, everyone is indoctrinated from the very beginning and without access to anything outside of the Hive complexes. Everything pushes heavily for collective approach and collective thinking.
Meanwhile Yang balances a lot of neo-confucian stuff with maoism with a massive hard-on for technocracy.

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>>50644069
This is a fascinating take on transhumanism and the hive. Makes me want to run eclipse phase again, and play around with social transhumanism myself. or learn GURPS I guess. But I kind of hate GURPS purely on principle

This whole thread is amazing. This is why We still love SMAC, and why we love /tg/.

>>50644147
GURPS: SMAC is one of those rare cases where you have all the shit you need in single book. So all you need is reading GURPS Lite (20 pages) to familiarise yourself with basic rules and you are ready to go.

>>50643924
In one of my games AI pirates were stuck in small inland sea between two alien nations. Just a tiny puddle with 2 minerals and 1 nutrient feature and angry alien bullies patroling the coast. They never had a chance to achieve something big.

>>50644342
In AI hands, Pirates are first to die and usually die due to mind worms attacks in 17 out of 20 games

>>50644342
Sounds like the Zunists on CK2.

Surrounded on all sides by people that could wipe them out. Half the time they are still around at the close of the game.

The fuckers just dig in and hold on like grim death, which is what somehow happens to armies ten times necessary size that march upon them.

>>50642705

Free Drones are literally a revolution to Yang.

Pirates might be the Spartan Navy.

Data Angels, are again, literally a off shoot of Morgan.

The Cult is a weird offshoot from Gaia.

Cybernetics are an offshoot from the University.

>>50644401
This.

Believers and Pirates are just shit when it comes to surviving pass the early game. Believers combine all the awful traits of inept AI terraforming with even more inept base placement, all in the sauce made of aggressive, suicidal tendencies.
Pirates are the same, but on fucking sea, where sealurks and isles of the deep will fucking eat you alive unless its mid game.

>>50644443
Stupid fucking defensive pagan attrition.

>>50644495
Cult are independent. And one of the reasons why timeline of SMAX makes no fucking sense.

Since all those factions are offshots, and Cult is NOT Gaian offshot, then some really weird shit is going around, as they are about a century later fluff-wise than the rest of the factions.

>>50644500
... which stops being an issue around 900 AD.
At which point there are barely any pagans left anyway.

Want to talk about stupid shit going around? How about Berbers turning Andalucian in fucking Marocco due to an oversight in scripting and fucking your epic camels into mid-tier Andalucian cavalry?

>>50644519
AI does very very well piloting Human Hive and Free Drones for some strange reason.

>>50643266
... unless they happen to trigger an isle of the deep or a sealurk. At which point they are dead or at least heavily decimated.

>>50643921
Too bad your pic related is bullshit.

>>50644519

I specifically remember a lot of fluff that the cult *was* a Gaian offshoot, and that Cha'Dawn was born on Planet.

>>50643921

While 'No True Scotsman' itself is a pain in the ass to deal with, Stalinism, Maoism, Hoxhaism, and other State Socialism and more nationalistic stuff does become weirdly disconnected from Marxism.

It's why 'Left Communism' now exists; but with no more Marx to ask 'hey bro what's really communism?" we have to stick with intrepertations of his book and other works from the same odd time.

Way *I* see it, when Socialism stops at 'one country', like the USSR or Cuba, when it stops trying to remove the essence of the state for the control of local councils and soft power and autonomy, sure, it may had started out like Communism, but it ends up as shit communism.

Too bad that states are such automatic and nice things to have, but that sucks for the Anarchists-Communists-Sociaists,not me.

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>>50644500
There is that.

There is also devilish A.I.

It marches the army out of the nation, waits till the invaders get terminal attrition from mountains and pagans then swoops in and decapitate s what's left.

And the King always leads them and because of the OP AS FUCK Zun rituals they are always Strong, Geniuses with Possession that makes them horrifying in battle.

>>50626510
wat

>>50644646
Syndicalism exists you know.

>>50644565
It comes from social engineering choices, really. Hive is immune to inefficiency. Not just inefficiency from policies, but inefficiency in general. They are locked as if always having efficiency 0. So while they won't be able to rake benefits of high efficiency, they NEVER suffer any ill effects of being huge-ass state, the very thing causing inefficiency.
Thus the AI is freed from one of the biggest restrains everyone struggles under.

Meanwhile, Drones have this huge-ass bonus to Industry and regularly pick Planned Democracy, giving them the standard bonuses coming from those. After hitting the criterium for Creches, Drones AI is scripted to get them pumped up ASAP, which leads to having constant pop boom in bases with Creches (due to total of +5 Population rating). So their number swell, so they build colony podes, so they expand, and the entire thing skyrockets.
Also, Drones are the only AI faction that is guaranteed to trigger fungal bloom and thus gain the benefits of eco-damage reduction, so they will never suffer later from eco-damage, so the AI will push bases more for production, which will snowball with the rest of their expansion.

So it all has less with AI for those being shit and is almost entirely on their unique bonuses and personality choices.

Compare that now with Miriam and Morgan, where the AI is fucked by the personality of leader.

>>50644723

Oh, I know it exists, but my off-the-cuff knowledge of it is sparse, so I did not mention it.

>>50626964
Globalists are bad senpai.

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>>50644933
(You)

>>50644947
{me}

I just wish that the game didn't look so completely terrible.

Has anyone made a more modern thing that gives a similar feel to SMAC? Beyond earth certainly didn't.

>>50644978
Not really, SMAC is unfortunately one of a kind thing and it will remain as such for a long time.

>>50644978
Just deal with it, you'll get used to it.

>>50644978
There is a Civ IV mod that is really, really good, BUT it lacks one of the most fun and useful factors - ability to design your own units.

>>50644978
What I wish for is a HD re-release, where they would use restored, HD footage from Baraka. It would be fucking gorgeous.

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"As the Americans learned so painfully in Earth's final century, free flow of information is the only safeguard against tyranny. The once-chained people whose leaders at last lose their grip on information flow will soon burst with freedom and vitality, but the free nation gradually constricting its grip on public discourse has begun its rapid slide into despotism.

Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master."

>>50645129
I don't know how obvious the post-truth society was in the late nineties, anon.

Lal did have a point, though - one need only look at whenever a government shuts down the internet during a revolution.

>>50645129
>>50645208
...Assuming that that's what you're talking about rather than, I dunno, Russia's firehose tactic. Overwhelm people with false information so they can no longer recognize what is real.

In a way this is in and of itself denying your access to information, but it does so in a far more insidious way - it makes you no longer bother to look, and redirects your eyes from important issues to constant minor scandals and whatnot.

>>50645240
>redirects your eyes from important issues to constant minor scandals and whatnot.

In the west we have celebrity culture. People can only give a shit about so many things, so encourage them to give a shit about only trivial things.

>>50645240
muddying the waters is the logical counter to the free flow of information, if you can't stop the stream, shit in the river.

>>50627475
>But it's not the kind of utopia I want,

What kind of asshole doesn't want some pretty art Nouveau society with women in mostly dominant roles spending most of their days picking tomatoes and just enjoying life man?

>>50645341
“A really efficient totalitarian state would be one in which the all-powerful executive of political bosses and their army of managers control a population of slaves who do not have to be coerced, because they love their servitude.”

>>50645367
fuck tomatos

>>50645367
I will literally build a factory specifically designed to dump sludge into rivers before I allow such a society to exist.

There's rarely been a game ending as satisfying as a well fought for transcendence victory.

>>50645408
And so another Captain Planet villain came to be.

>>50644519
This is one of those things I'm going to put down to engine limitations. Were the game to be rebuilt in a similar manner to one of paradox's grand strategy games, then clearly each of the expansion factions would pop up over time, where and when appropriate. because it'd be built on a game engine that could handle more factions in play at once, and not demand for basic game balance that all start at the same time.

It's also be possible to follow the implied canon and have events/territorial/technological changes mapped out so that there is a timeline to jump into.

So, I have only ever finished the game as the Human Hive. Yang's epilogue having succeed the transcendence project is shockingly good, gracious and benevolent. Is this the case for every leader achieving transcendence?

>>50645522
Having the expansion factions pop in as the game proceeds (like the aliens already do, I suppose) would be pretty boss.

Have the Drones start when Yang first gets a riot, Cha Dawn appear out of fucking nowhere halfway through the game, etc. etc.

>>50643105

Not him but as a Sailor in he US Navy right now if I were on the Unity I'd have to follow the pirates just because Svengaard was an O-5 in the Navy and Chain of Command.

>>50645635

kinda

Some are really fucked up aswell

>>50644978

People always meme up Pandora, but the Lore in that game is fucking garbage and the lore in SMAC is the greatest game lore ever so I can't get into it

>>50645066
Wasn't there a fan mod for this?

Late game Alpha Centauri is one of the most advanced SF setting ever with he exception of space travel. Humanity is literally Culture Tier at the end of the game


So the question is, is could a theoretical united late game Chiron beat off an invasion by the Imperium of man

>>50646071
Yes. Yes a fucking lot.
Jesus christ, warp free teleportation alone is all you need to wreck 40k, ignoring everything else.

>>50644732
>Meanwhile, Drones have this huge-ass bonus to Industry and regularly pick Planned Democracy
Ironically, impossible in our world combination of traits brings Drones over the top

So, what exactly is a manifold flowering?

>>50646123
>impossible in our world combination
And post-war Japan is what, you fucking idiot?

>>50646140
If I remember my snippets of lore correctly, the flowering is when Planet hits the critical threshold of having enough fungal mass to become truly aware/awake.

>>50646140
All of a planet's native life goes into an internecine frenzy as the planet tries and fails to reach sapience, leading to massive die-offs and the withering of the planetmind.

>>50646163
Vassal state of US with economy run by clan owned corporations?

>>50646140
The birth of a god-planet. I guess, Dead Space was inspired by that.

So, are the Pirates good or not? If so, why?

>>50646213
Here is the (You) you are looking for

>>50646250
Pirates are a meme. Their only use is constantly rising the sea level to fuck up everyone else.

>>50646349
I don't need your poorly manufactured (You)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGCaACqy1Ro

>>50646250
Read >>50643469
They have troubles with nasty sea life spawned from unlucky pods and midgame

>>50646250
Pirates on an ocean heavy map are easy mode.

On the negative side their lore is mediocre.

On the positive side YAAARRRRRR!!! WE BE ALL PIRITY AND SHIT!

>>50646250
Not good, because you are missing 2/3 of the game features due to their gimmick and their lore is a fucking joke. Literally the worst faction fluff-wise.

>>50646250
If the game lasts longer than first 150 turns, they are dead.
If they end up attacked in those 150 turns by native "fauna", they are dead.
If they end up with unfavourable map, they are dead.
If they end up far away from any of the bonus areas of the sea, they are dead.

Rings you a bell how bad this faction is?

>>50646071

teleportation and grey goo alone make them completely OP as they can build anything anywhere

>>50646071
Depends who's in charge. With Santiago or Deidre, it's a piss-easy task. Then comes Zak and Yang and their utter lack of any scrupules.

But imagine the horror of Morganites running the show

>>50646530
Who needs grey goo when you have matter edition technology?

>>50646071
Anything past the AI being widely implemented means Chiron can easily defend itself. And that's just mid-game. When shit from late game starts rolling, even without the whole transcendence thing going, humans out there are more than capable of taking over known universe.
I mean... cloning, nanomachinery, teleportation, machines capable of changing fucking PROBABILITY of events, grey goo...

>>50644670
You can always look at Norse. While hitting 30 you have a king with Strong, Duelist, Wroth, Brave, Valhalla Bound, Viking and Berserk for +17 Martial. Most likely with martial-based education, too.
And by 35 he is going to be Sea King Vangarian for another +4.

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>>50626510
>Drew

It aint him m8

>>50626510
Fuck off Kevin.

All the kiddies saying Yang is a commie... Based on what, the fact that he's Chinese? Read his fucking quotes you nincompoops.

>>50648512
Probably based on his socialized everything.

Can we all agree Data Angels are worst faction?

>>50649344
Man that's tough.iriam is so aggressively suicidal

>>50648512
>>50648544
He's not a commie he's a legalist.