MTG Frontier

Good goyim, buy up all the M15 and Khans staples we have in the card shop

Siege rhino, CoCo and baby jayce are still worth something

>>50609496
jace already bottomed out before frontier, ill agree with everything else youre saying.

>>50608328
It's hard to say right now. The only reason Modern exists is because "fuck the reserved list." If in five more years Wizards still doesn't make any real attempts at trying to keep Modern alive with their pseudo reserved list I could see Frontier being recognized as a serious thing. I doubt it'll simply go away like any of the other formats you mentioned because of how similar Frontier's startup is to Modern.

I'd play it if I left the house. Having the cards already lying around is a part of that, I don't know I'd be interested enough to buy in otherwise. Goblins are cheap and some of the decks have a large crossover with standard legal cards, so the barrier to entry is really quite low.

It's cheap enough and diverse enough. Aggro, combo, control and midrange are all viable, nothing seems too outrageous and all the decks in the metagame so far are very beatable.

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/metagame/frontier#paper

I think it'd be a better format without fetches, the mana's quite a lot better than the overall power level of the format.

Why are there a dozen different formats? It only makes it harder to find someone to play with. They should literally ban all formats and only allow EDH

The aggro decks look fun enough. I think I could play any of RDW, Mono-white humans, Jeskai or Jeskai Ensoul and have a good time.

Haven't seen any Bring to Light decks yet. Bit of a shame.

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>>50608328
People want to play cards that rotated out from standard? Sure that is OK since fuck me if standard is not pricy enough.

But people who want frontier to become big "real" format are delusional if they think their "inexpensive" format could survive to price inflation caused by popularity.

It will still be CoCo/bant/reddit the format eventually and eventually turn into "modern" and face the same problems.

>>50608328

>tfw want to play Frontier Abzan
>own all the cards sans Grim Flayer

Just fuck my shit up. I hoped to replace him with sylvan advocate and some manlands.

>>50610925
This, it's expensive now but wait a decade and it will start looking like Modern, and Modern will look like Legacy, Legacy will be Vintage, and Vintage will only be played by people with 9 figure incomes on their space ships.

>>50610925
b-but there are mtg websites that say Frontier has more interactivity than Modern.

>>50611327

> more interactivity than Modern.

The interactivity bar is set pretty low here. Even standard has more interactivity than Modern.

The big problem I see with frontier is the arbitrary starting point. Tarkir is too absurd of a powerlevel to have such a small format, so it should start at either m13 (which could make it really similar to modern) or origins (which makes the format too similar to standard at the moment). I think in the future, an origins onward format would be decent, but it's too small at the moment.

>>50609694
Modern's also getting a boost from "fuck standard"

midrange.goodstuff.dek

I don't doubt WotC will try to phase out Modern and push Frontier (under a new name) in 5-10 years, but it's way too early now.

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I've actually playtested several decks with a group of friends, probably around 30 or so games with each deck we came up with, and came to a few conclusions;

1) The card pool is very odd. It's too small for a non- rotating format, but large enough to support several standard seasons. The power levels between individual sets combined with the smallish card pool make for huge differences in power, and also make certain cards vastly outweigh others (CoCo is the best example.)

2) Midrange decks define the format. Abzan is fantastic thanks to WotC printing great G and W cards. Jund can be almost perfectly emulated to its' Modern predecessor. Mana bases allow for 4c goodstuff.dec to do incredibly well, especially because there is no good land destruction, and stax effects are almost non- existant.

3) While Midrange is format defining, CoCo decks will dominate, with Bant and Naya varieties at the top. Since WotC has been pushing sorceries and instants staples onto a body, you can almost literally cram a deck with 3cmc or less creatures, slap 4 Cocos and call it a day.

4) While it can be a fun format (because I think Magic in all forms is fun) it needs time to grow. More sets would mean a more average power level and more archetypes gaining support. While you can play almost anything you want (R- based aggro, Affinity style Ensoul, various flavors of misrange, ascendency combo decks, UWX control) certain styles are lacking in strong options and have to make do with ineffectual or narrow answers. I believe more cards can answer these issues.

That's just my take on it, anyway.

i dont understand this format

>print fetch lands in it so its guaranteed to be expensive as fuck
>entire meta is based around the most cancerous and expensive decks from the last 2 years
>modern is still superior in every way

forgot to mention that out of the 4 LGS near me a grand total of none of them do anything frontier related. apparently that is the norm from what i have seen so its not off to a great start

>>50610925
>"inexpensive" format could survive to price inflation caused by popularity.
thiiiiiiiiiiiiis you think that tarmogoyf always had such a high price tag? When do you think it started to sky rocket in price?
>>50608328

>>50612568
Exactly. If you want modern but less powerful, start at m13. If you want a chance at an actually inexpensive non rotating format, wait a year or two and start at origins. Starting at m15 just makes the worst recent era of standard come back with a vengeance and new toys.

In Spain, Frontier is an absolute craze. Many big shops in Barcelona have started offering Frontier events.

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Why don't you faggots just play Pauper or something?

>>50612836
>the only format that's more reddit/10 than this and tiny leaders
kill yourself

>>50612437
MaRo want to push a new format according to his tumblr

>>50612879
>reddit/10
What the fuck does this even mean?

>people are unironically trying to push this meme format
Look, I get that not everyone can afford legacy prices, but this format as a whole is exceptionally terrible. Because the moons jumped the gun, you now have exactly one cycle of fetches, along with all the most bullshitery from Dragons.

If this format started with Origins, I wouldn't see a problem, but because you faggots are excited to jump balls deep into a poorly conceived format, you've ruined it for everyone. This is just CoCo, Seige Rino and Flip Jace: The Format.

>>50610925
Ive been saying this since the first Frontier threads popped up on /tg/. Its only so fucking cheap because everyone still has most/all of these cards from a year ago's standard. All this format is is people not wanting to abandon their standard decks and not wanting to have to spend like 1000+ dollars on a competitive Modern deck.
This is an understandable thing. Problem is however, that if this takes off, all it is going to be is Modern 2.0. Shit like Coco and Meme Rhino will be $80 in no time flat once it gets real support/popularity and then you are stuck with the same fucking problem. Newer players cannot justify spending the 500-800 dollars on a competitive Frontier Coco deck or Abzan Midrange deck. The fact that people do not see that at all is a bad thing.

Now i will agree that if it were not for the Reserved List, Modern would not have a right to exist either. But this trend of dividing the playerbase over and over again is fucking STUPID. WOTC needs to remove their ass-backwards anti-reprint fetish and start reprinting Lilliana's and Tarmogoyfs in mass sets that are fucking affordable. Not shit like Master's sets where they are fucking Mythic Rares.

>>50613016
>WOTC needs to remove their ass-backwards anti-reprint fetish and start reprinting Lilliana's and Tarmogoyfs in mass sets that are fucking affordable.

But Anon, think about the collectors and those who invest in cards. What would they do if their cards lose value? How will card shops gouge prices by using High average price?

>>50608328
It's shit fuck off

>>50608328
If it takes off it'll be just as solved and expensive as modern.

>>50612879
What's wrong with pauper? I play it on MTGO all the time. If anything it's more interactive than Standard.

>>50610164
I've been brewing a Sidisi whip/ megamorph deck with prized amalgam, Kalitas and Ishkhana as my newer creatures.
My main concerns are
>It's just a cash grab like Tiny Leaders
>Welcome to "Rhino: The Format"

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>>50608328
>casual constructed
that should read 'kitchen table' to avoid any misconceptions about being a sanctioned format

>>50613098
The only reason I'm glad those cards stay so expensive is because it helps me avoid Jund mirror matches.
Seriously, those are fucking annoying.

>>50612879
Take a break from /v/ anon, you're making no sense

>>50612631
>When do you think it started to sky rocket in price?
Good art?

>>50613010
>This is just CoCo, Seige Rino and Flip Jace: The Format.
Sad but true. The official Kamigawan page even says "You get to play seige rhino again!".

>>50613010
B-but no banlist yet since the format was made in September this year

>>50608328
Dead format
/Thread/

Wizards puts you in charge of a new format. Its intent is to be an intermediate between modern and standard. It can't be simply extended, as that's already a failed format. How do you make this new format so that standard players that want to just tune up their deck slightly can keep using it in this format, but people who don't want to play modern due to the price can enter?

>>50618258
>How do you make this new format so that standard players that want to just tune up their deck slightly can keep using it in this format, but people who don't want to play modern due to the price can enter?
I don't, I just go full retard with reprinting Modern stuff.

>>50618288
I mean, that's what I'd do too, but
>implying anyone's fooled by wizards' "we totally don't take the secondary market into consideration for reprint products" official statement

>>50618258
Wait until at least fall 2017, when BFW/OGW/SOI/EMN would rotate so that the card pool is bigger and many players will want to keep playing their decks, start from Origins so that fetchlands/rally/rhino/coco are out, ban baby jace.
Or just >>50618288 and enjoy the meltdown as "invested" players "lose" hundreds of dollars worth of cardboard.

Frontier more like Cuntier

>>50612631
Tarmogoyf has literally always been expensive. It was $10 on release and $70 right before Modern was invented. Then it jumped up to $90 and never looked back.

>>50621307
Prove it. Tarmogoyf was garbage on release.

>>50618258
Screw making a new format and tell them to just print fetches and shocks regularly instead. The land base has absolutely zero excuse to be worth several hundred dollars, and no "muh professional entry fee" is not an excuse. I'm not blowing an eighth of my paycheck just to make a new deck.

If we really need to make a new format, just print the hell out of both types of fetches so we're not exclusively stuck with shards.

>>50621393
Check literally any price chart you mongoloid, I'm not looking it up for you just because you weren't there. Tarmogoyf was a big fat mistake like Skullclamp and Jitte.

>>50621563
You make a claim you prove it. I was there, that's I know you're full of shit Tarmogoyf was never $10 at release. It was at best a 1/2 because there were no fetches in standard, there was no Thoughtseize. The only thing close was fucking Blackmail.

>>50618258
Frontier, ban fetchlands to make entry easier.

Make the community aware that CoCo and Jace are on the watchlist and may be banned for the health of the format. Possibly Rally as well, but I don't see Rally as that much of a problem. Rally isn't Dredge, and anyone can play Tormod's Crypt.

>>50621651
Well, let me walk that back. Once lorwyn released it started to climb because of Doran and Thoughtseize. I'm thinking Ravnica/Time Spiral.

There's no standard thread up and I don't feel like starting up a new thread, but you guys have exposure to both, so let me ask, which would you rather mainboard?

Declaration in Stone x4 or Blessed Alliance x2 and Declaration x2.

Or I suppose Blessed x4

>>50623227
I should point out that this is in aggro/midrange

>>50623227
if it's aggro, declaration. How fast are you aiming to kill them?

>>50623493
Slower than a pure, go fast and win before turn 5 aggro. It's a hybrid thing that can usually survive other aggro decks and then start going way over their heads, which is why I put it right on the line between aggro and midrange

>>50612362
Frontier actually begins from M15 onwards, but yes, right now is just a really small ammount of sets. It needs 2-3 blocks more before it has a deep enough card pool.

>>50609496

please fuck off to >>>/pol/

>>50621540
>The land base has absolutely zero excuse to be worth several hundred dollars
>no "muh professional entry fee" is not an excuse
>muh investments on cardboards
>muh card value
>muh collection

>>50624971
M15's contribution to frontier are a few sideboard cards and ensoul artifact

>>50625042
But hey, it's cards I guess.

>>50621651
i remember Goyfs being draft chaff in block, people okay with literally destorying them

>>50613016
>wants a corporate business to destroy it's own livelihood

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles/how-wizards-manages-its-savings-account

Read this article and realize what your asking for is never going to happen.

Ps. Seriously, do it. It's a good read.

>>50625042
Also chord of calling, elvish mystic, stoke, lightning strike, rabblemaster and obelisk of urd

>>50625259
>A format where red goblins is viable

YES

YES

>>50612823
Spaniard here, how truthful is that?, I'm not saying that isn't the case, but here in Andalusia I haven't seen one single Frontier event.

>>50612836
Fuck pauper. I'd play an Uncommon format tho.

>>50625343
>fuck pauper
Why, anon? Why you hatin'?

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Pauper and Legacy are the only true formats.

>>50625042

Origins contribution is just flip walkers and like 7 more cards. Your point?

>>50625728
The entire point was how this format is Tarkir with toys

What exactly is the appeal of the format

>>50630487
People can use their khans cards again because they cant play standard without them

>>50630487
Cheaper and more viable decks than standard.

>>50630487
What's the appeal of any format? Hell what's the appeal of card games? What's the appeal of any recreational hobby?

What a fucking stupid question.

>>50633171
Calm down Friedrich. The context was quite clear.

Convince me that this format isn't just people trying to sell their now overstocked Khans block cards and that it would be anything other than 4C goodstuff or CoCo decks.

>>50634599
That's probably a factor. Stores have a financial incentive to encourage people to play in any format.

>>50634599
The tribal decks, ensoul and prowess are all more than just goodstuff.

>>50621563
You made the claim so the burden of proof is on you.

T. a lawyer

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>If Frontier started one block sooner I could play Heroic with Blossoming Defense

I-I guess Siege Rhino is fine

>>50635601
you can always play it in Modern and lose to tier 1 decks

>>50633171
The appeal of legacy is getting to play with really powerful cards and trading crippling blows. The appeal of Vintage is the high variance and ability to be able to win from most positions. The appeal of EDH is jamming wonky combos together. Why would one want to play a format that's essentially standard plus? The year when Extended was on a four year rotation was awful because it was just the best hits of standard. This seems to have that exact same problem.

>>50632805
The infancy of a format leads to a lot of decks, but when it's around long enough the cream rises to the top.

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>>50635601
>If frontier started one block sooner I could play mono green stompy with aspect of hydra and boon satyr
I tried to make Khans stompy work in KTK-SOI and even DTK-KLD and it just wouldn't go.

>>50635601
>If Frontier started one block sooner I could play Monoblack Devotion

>>50618258
>Print some sort of new multi-color hoser (but a healthier one than Blood Moon)
>Print Grafdigger's cage

Bam, I solved Frontier without banning a single card

>>50609914
I hope you're talking of Duel Commander.

What tools does Aetherworks Marvel get from M15, KTK block and ORI?

Better mana is a give.

Baby Jace?

Elvish Mystic and Rattleclaw Mystic could power out a faster Marvel but then you don't have the energy.

Anyone have a G r ramp list with stuff like World Breaker, Ugin, maybe Emrakul and Kozilek's Return

>>50640089
>Print some sort of new multi-color hoser (but a healthier one than Blood Moon)
The card you're talking about is Ghost Quarter. Decks have to play basics so BFZ duals ETB untapped. Gotta play more now but not standard level of basics. Maro has said he thinks GQ is the right power level for standard.
>Print Grafdigger's Cage
This could get a functional reprint in Amonkhet as some sort of tomb. Maybe add a clause on it like your opponents cannot move cards from graveyards or cannot exile cards from their graveyard.

>>50621723
Even during Lorwyn it was nothing. I traded one UB filterland for three Goyfs, bought a couple more for $2 each, and even got a couple more gifted to me because it was "too much effort for a vanilla beater".
I was filling a binder with 9x each card with the funny "future frame". Best idea ever.

>>50625259
That's why it has to leave and Khans block too, so that MaRo can have his safe-space format with no Incinerate variants, 1cmc manadorks or evil red aggro cards to trigger him.

>>50640538
After a couple more years of sets the format would be better served at ORI with most of the stuff at the same power level and without fetches.
Or we can get Ghost Quarter

>>50624991
Did the word goyim really set you off anon? Really?

Also this format is gonna be a meme for a while then pass away just like tiny leaders

It's funny because nobody at the moment runs Back to Nature and I'm literally playing Esper Starfield but with some sieges from Khans block. Monastery/Palace Siege is just ballin out of control with the Lunar Force lock.

If fetches were band making colour fixing much harder would frontier be decent?

>>50643182
banned*
color* brit spelling is always wrong
Khans block shouldn't even be in the format. WotC clearly doesn't want any delve anywhere.

So this format is just Standard with busted CoCo and Rally?

>>50625201
How does Wizards possibly benefit from leveraging chase rares to sell a handful of Duel Decks, Commander and FTV product compared to selling either a shitload more of the same, or even entering the singles market themselves?

And people buy expert expansions regardless of whether or not they have reprints of chases like fetchlands. People buy expert expansions because the game overall -- the mechanics, the art, the flavor and story -- are just that cool and they want to play with the newest cool stuff.

>>50640424
Ugin is probably the best hit

I don't know how many targets you want in an Aetherworks deck. Maybe Dragonlord Atarka as something you can still cast if you draw it.

>>50634599
Read the gooks reasoning, nobody played magic in japan when all the modern staples were printed so for them modern is like everyone else's legacy.

>>50643687
You can still cast Emrakul. Ulamog is the only guy that's hard to get to in Marvel.

What would you play? 4 Emrakul, 2 Ugin?

>>50644324
I've seen some decks that play just 4 Em, 2 Ulamog, 3 Ishkanah

I'd say you could cut all or some of the Ishkanahs for Ugin

Trying to build this. Once the fastlands and the PW rotate I'll buy those.

Land (23)
4x Darksteel Citadel
2x Inventors' Fair
9x Island
1x Mountain
1x Ruins of Oran-Rief
4x Spirebluff Canal
2x Tomb of the Spirit Dragon
Creature (16)
4x Chief of the Foundry
4x Hangarback Walker
4x Ornithopter
2x Thopter Engineer
2x Whirler Rogue
Artifact (4)
4x Ghostfire Blade
Instant (9)
4x Anticipate
2x Artificer's Epiphany
3x Shrapnel Blast
Enchantment (6)
4x Ensoul Artifact
2x Thopter Spy Network
Planeswalker (2)
2x Saheeli Rai

>>50625343
>I'd play an Uncommon format tho.
Me too! In one of the card stores I go to they play with a limit of three rares/mythics in the decks. It was to help newfags but then the modern players started playing since it's easy store credit and the newfags never won again. Anyway what were we talking about?

>>50645395
Saheeli isn't as useful as you think. She's good for copying larger shit like gearhulks but sux at everything else.

4x Thopter engineer is a must.

Thopter spy network is pretty slow for what it does, but it works well as a sideboard item.

Maybe consider filigree familiar or glimmer of genius for card draw and value?

Shit dead and solved format
Only NWO babies and SJW who want to feel "identified" would play this shit
Living with your shit taste is punishment enough

>>50646323
Filigree seems good but not Glimmer. Not a fan of that extra mana you need to pay compared to Arificer´s Epiphany. Spy network is the only other card I want to use the most aside Enoul Artifact. I know I need to remove it. ;_;

>>50643659
>How does Wizards possibly benefit from leveraging chase rares to sell a handful of Duel Decks, Commander and FTV product compared to selling either a shitload more of the same
A $100 Damnation at mythic sells more boosters than a $20 Damnation at rare. That's why we won't see that damned thing reprinted in at least two more years.
>or even entering the singles market themselves?
The second they officially admit to the secondary market price of the cards Magic becomes a registered good with extra taxes and regulations.
>And people buy expert expansions regardless of whether or not they have reprints of chases like fetchlands.
Khans is the best selling set in history explicitly because of fetchlands at rare.

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>>50646475

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frontier is cool because i can make this guy do work

>>50647233
I know, I have spy network too. I love the idea and concept of it but I just can't use it to great effect. My playtesting led me to discover that jeskai/american artifacts was a better deck overall, mixed with vehicles and all. Spy network is a good sideboard card for longer games though.

Check this out:

Creatures:
2 Kytheon, Hero of Akros
4 Toolcraft Exemplar
4 Hangarback Walker
4 Thopter Engineer
2 Pia Nalaar
3 Bygone Bishop
4 Fleetwheel Cruiser
2 Skysovereign, Consul Flagship

Spells (Instants and Sorceries):
2 Unsubstantiate
4 Shrapnel Blast

Artifacts:
3 Inventor’s Goggles
2 Prophetic Prism
2 Skysovereign, Consul Flagship
4 Fleetwheel Cruiser

Enchantments:
4 Ensoul Artifact

Lands:
2 Inspiring Vantage
3 Battlefield Forge
3 Darksteel Citadel
2 Shivan Reef
1 Inventor's Fair
1 Foundry of the Consuls
2 Mystic Monastery
2 Plains
2 Mountain
2 Island

I might put in a land or two just for consistency though, but this deck has had some surprisingly good results. I have lots of hate and removal in the sideboard but I think I should toss more in the main deck just in case.

>>50635601
Why does someone post about Heroic in every other thread? What is it about that shitty ability that interests you so much?

>>50650609
Heroic was free wins in standard, and it was absurdly cheap. People want cheap free wins.

>>50612362
The starting point isn't arbitrary it's actually set to make it easier for Japanese player's to play. It wasn't until m15 that a constant, reliable printing of cards in Japanese text started to get printed. That's why the format is so popular in japan and was made there.

>>50648625
Would rather run swift spear or elusive spell fist.

>>50612535
When did you start playing? Frontier is just Extended at the moment.

Frontier is a shitty situation of goodstuff midrange backed by fetchlands plus dual lands, a few stupid broken Khans cards, and nothing but aggro to effectively work against it. It's probably the least interactive format and is certainly the most narrow in terms of viable variety. It needs many more years of new blocks to become decent.

>>50653668
Control and combo are both viable in frontier.

>>50653848
Control in Frontier is very fragile compared to every other format, even Modern. Combo is viable because of the aforementioned broken Khans cards.

>>50640424
why not just reprint something similar to ground seal but in colorless?

I recall a deck from Khans where you would generate infinite mana and draw your entiere deck. I only saw the guy running the store use it once so I don't remember anything aside what I've said. Anyone know what I'm talking about?

>>50654092
I think that was a Jeskai Ascendancy combo deck that used a card from Theros Block

Or the Temur Ascendancy/Temur Sabretooth combo...but that also used Karametra's Acolyte from Theros