/CofD/ &/wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness

>>50600092

Is it cheating to say "Mage Noir"?

>>50600134
No. But it's wrong, since it's 20 years too late.

>>50600134
I've seen a Don't Rest Your Head + Mage Noir hack.

>>50600381

Fair enough!

>>50600092
Hunter.

Okay so here's the real question: What splat is Robbie Rotten.

>>50600381
How so?

>>50600856
who?

>>50600856

Mortal with at least two Supernatural Merits.

>>50600856
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9M84OUXbRY
Le meme villain

>>50601352
Personally I'm thinking a mortal with a sloth 'demon' in him from Inferno.

I had a Day Court NPC who was a himalayan aghori ascetic, who, after performing the correct austerities and imbibing the correct elixirs, and then going to a specific place, fulfilled all the clauses of an ancient contract and was taken away by Ravana to be taught raksha-yoga, and came back a changeling, for the ascetic training was his Durance.

How ok is it? How possible will that be to represent in 2e?

>>50600092
Werewolves are too kill-em-all for noir. Mages are probably too strong since noir normally implies a distinctly human element. I don't think Geist fits the tone right; even though it's about death I think it has that second chance thing going on that doesn't really work for noir. I don't care about Mummy or Beast.

So I guess Vampire, Changeling, Promethean, Hunter, or Demon would work, although the very obvious answer is just using plain mortals.

>>50601447
>implying anyone plays mortals

>>50601432
No idea, but what was his seeming and Kith?

>>50601468
>implying I implied that

>>50601432
Judging by the last couple of threads, that concept is BadWrong and you should be ashamed, because it doesn't involve him seeing it as horrible traumatic abuse that's permanently fucked up his psyche.

>>50601471
Ogre Daitya/Gristlegrinder.

>>50601530
>bringing this argument to the new thread
pls

>>50601432
>How ok is it? How possible will that be to represent in 2e?

Sounds fantastic. How does he escape? Does he view his durance as enlightening or was it false and hollow?

I'd give him one of the Kiths that were traditionally associated with the Wizened.

>>50601347
>Did you miss the like fifty 1e merits that turn part of the Hedge into your own personal fairy wonderland fortress? Complete with a magic fruit garden? I say again: reread the books.
And do you know *why* you need those merits?

I'm literally looking at the section on the Hedge. Page 210. Hell, end of the main section, right before The Nature of the Hedge:
>Of course, once someone has entered the Hedge, whether mortal or changeling, her life is in danger. Getting out of the Hedge is often much more difficult than getting in.
And later
>[...] Amidst the Brambles, a changeling cannot help but feel exposed, vulnerable and even trapped, and those feelings are not without merit.
>Finally, and related to the last concern, changelings in the Hedge attracted notice. [...] The strange creatures native to the Hedge find changelings fascinating. Even when these creatures are neutral or even well-disposed toward the changeling, they can inadvertently act as beacons for a being with decidedly unpleasant plans for him.
In fact, in 1e it wasn't pain that shaped the Hedge, it was a different emotion:
>A traveler who starts to run develops a feeling that he is being chased, whether or not he actually is. A traveler who stops walking has a hard time starting again; the feeling of danger becomes paralyzing, and the hapless visitor believes that the dangerous creatures "out there in the forest" cannot see or will not harm him as long as he stays still. For non-changelings in the Hedge, this kind of "feedback loop," wherein fear amplifies the terrifying effects of the place, is the limit of their ability to shape the Hedge.

>>50601555
He just finished the terms of his studies and the time of teaching was up. His challenge in leaving was to show he was a worthy student, and to show wisdom and martial might. Then he was let free, in a sort of "front-loaded" escape.

>Does he view his durance as enlightening or was it false and hollow?

Both. He understands the world as Maya, ultimately a false and hollow illusion, thus his durance was a false and hollow stepping stone to Nirvana. Albeit a useful one, inasmuch usefullness and meaning exist and can be ascribed to things.

>>50601608
"Fear of being trapped in the unknown" is a hell of a lot more thematic for the base emotion of the Hedge than "it literally turns into the belt your dad used to beat you with as a child".

Honestly, with how much discontent Hill's direction generates, I will probably strip out the workable mechanics from the Changeling we'll get and write about 100-150 pages of non-stupid around it. If, of course, anyone except me needs that.

I would like to note that if you market Changeling glamour harvesting as a beat generation engine ("We're using proprietary learning techniques and smart drugs to make you less emotional and learn better but the program takes a year) you can easily make people have 1-2 5-dot skills by the time their year is up. A lot of people would trade a year of emotions for a completely mundane (and not pledge-based) skill within the top 1% of the population which can feed them for the rest of their days.

What would be the best covenant for a "Vampire vs Hunter" setting like Nosgoth?

>>50601724
I wouldn't mind seeing it, once you're done.

>>50601724

I was planning to do a Changeling 1.5 anyways. Not cause of the dev or anything, I don't mind that stuff, but because I always do a 1.5 hack of the lines to suit my needs.

>>50601659
It's thematic for 1e, sure, but 2e isn't 1e. My point isn't that pain was there in 1e, my point is that the Hedge was not the wondrous magical honeytrap that people were calling it. It was always an dangerous and scary place, where anything beautiful was likely to kill you.

>>50601724
>>50601883
>implying anon is going to write 150 pages of "non-stupid"

>>50601924

Some people actually finish their work.

File: 1480920907228.gif (594KB, 500x210px) Image search: [Google]

594KB, 500x210px

>>50601938

File: Show Me.jpg (60KB, 736x736px) Image search: [Google]

60KB, 736x736px

>>50601938
Yeah. They don't post on /tg/.

>>50602033

Engine Heart's right there, Anon.

>>50601530
Damn right!

>>50601432
I don't think it would work in 2e as it did in 1e.

>>50601724
Share it when you finish. Although I think that like 30 pages would be enough to fix most of the bad stuff.

If you raise the rank of your familiar past 2 with magic it'll no longer count as a familiar until the spell wears off right?

>>50602087
I don't think it would work in 1e. It doesn't fit any of the Seemings (except maybe Fairest, since their schtick was literally just "they're attractive I guess") and goes against how Changeling works.

But pointing out that something doesn't fit the game is just calling things "badwrongfun".

>>50602102
Yup. I'm not even sure if it'll come back when the spell wears off.

>>50602102
Going to Rank 3 snaps the Familiar bond. I'm pretty sure you'd have to cast the spell again to get your Familiar back.

Of course, thanks to Sanctity of Merits you can turn your Familiar merit into Allies (My Former Familiar).

>>50602111
Self-abuse and enlightenment through self-destruction is quite in-theme for Changeling, no?

>>50601548
How did he balance the eating of people with the ascetic yogi mindset of peace and balance with the universe. Aren't Yogi's by doctrine and principal of belief vegetarian so that they don't have to harm any animals?

I think you might have some holes in your story. I would consider a minor rewrite so that after his escape from his slave master where he was forced to be a cannibal (to dispose of dead servants, enemies, hunted victims, run-a-ways) he took up a path of vigorous meditation, and ascetic life and was made a pupil of a Yogi living in the hedge.

Otherwise your story works for a Fae touched instead of a changeling.

>>50602217
>How did he balance the eating of people with the ascetic yogi mindset of peace and balance with the universe. Aren't Yogi's by doctrine and principal of belief vegetarian so that they don't have to harm any animals?

That's darshana, the right-handed paths to enlightenment. He was an aghori, one of those guys that eat shit, have sex with menstruating prostitutes, and meditate on corpses to achieve the full understanding of non-duality.

>>50602269
Wow, I don't know which is worse. Tell me more about the difference in theological logic going on here, anon.

>>50602131
>thanks to Sanctity of Merits you can turn your Familiar merit into Allies (My Former Familiar)

A Rank 3+ spirit as an Allies 4 merit is a pretty good trade-off, at least assuming it's a spirit of something interesting or useful.

A Rank 3 Helion or spirit of justice, very good, but a spirit of cute, fluffy bunnies, that'll just make you the laughing stock of the consilium.

>>50602313
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aghori

>>50602313
The darshana-marga ways to enlightenment, broadly, come to enlightenment through contemplation, "proper" and "good" things, self-limitation, and such.

The vama-marga ways to enlightenment, broadly, come to enlightenment through destruction, tribulation, and suffering, and realising through them that there is no real difference between shit, a Buddha, and three pounds of flax.

Thus he had no real problem with eating people. He probably did that to some corpses as a human, while meditating on the nature of death and cessation of existence.

Incidentally, this is why I _hate_ the moniker Left-Handed Paths attached to "evil" paths in Mage. A lot of what completely Right-Hand Path thyrsoi and mastigoi do is of the vama-marga. A lot of mastigoi Pride and associated tropes are vama marga, etc.

The left-handed path is a valid path to enlightenment, not something inherently evil.

This is why in my games the Left-Hand Path practitioners of Abyssal Legacies and such are only called Nefandi, or their specific type of thing (Scelesti/Reapers/etc).

>>50602111
There are various possibilities which would suit character like that. Some such kiths: Antiquarian, Di-Cang, Oracle, Riddleseeker, I guess some kind of Ogre could easily represent physical proficiency gained from practising that kind of yoga.

>>50602269
>That's darshana, the right-handed paths to enlightenment. He was an aghori, one of those guys that eat shit, have sex with menstruating prostitutes, and meditate on corpses to achieve the full understanding of non-duality.
That widens possibilities even more.

>>50602487
Well, as I said, he was an NPC. I just didn't read the Changeling playtests yet and they are fairly contentious judging by these threads, so I decided to ask.

>>50602506
Ah sorry, I was reacting to claim it wasn't possible even in 1e and that there was no suitable seeming.
In 2e according to RAW it doesn't seem possible. Changelings are defined by how they escaped Arcadia, and none of those escapes encompasses: "I finished my training so I went home"

>>50602487
There are plenty of kiths that fit, sure, but even in 1e your Durance wasn't going to be a willing thing where you complete your training and get to go home. And Ogres in 1e are all about suffering and abuse and continuing the cycle of abuse, more so than any other Changeling; the example write up even describes an Ogre who escapes only to take his Keeper's place:
>One day, the troll came into the workshop and he leaned over the boy's shoulder as the boy carved the knife handle, and the boy pointed out a detail of the carving, and the troll craned closer to look, and quick as lightning the boy turned his hand and stabbed the troll in the eye. And that was the end of the troll. The boy wanted to run away, but he turned back and saw the workshop was now empty. And he didn't leave. He ate the troll's food and slept in the troll's bed. And now he dines on human flesh and carves handles from the bones. And business is good. One day soon, he will need assistance.
Also, Di-Cang?

>>50602616
What about "I studied so hard and fought so well my Master was impressed and let me be"?

>Some such kiths: Antiquarian, Di-Cang, Oracle, Riddleseeker, I guess some kind of Ogre could easily represent physical proficiency gained from practising that kind of yoga.

As I said, he was a Daitya/Gristlegrinder. But yes, a wizened kith would have not been amiss too.

>>50602417
I still don't really have a good handle on what a spirit can do to be honest.

>>50602821
>And Ogres in 1e are all about suffering and abuse and continuing the cycle of abuse, more so than any other Changeling; the example write up even describes an Ogre who escapes only to take his Keeper's place

Which is exactly what he did, because he, first, suffered abuse and hardship and tribulation during his Durance austerities, and then went on to be a guru to inflict lesser versions of such on any willing students.

Has any official material expanded on the 2e Coils of the Dragon?

>>50602938
expanded how there are two new ones in the new book but no more detail then what we already have

>>50602855
>Orge

That's because they represent one of the most straight forward forms. Physical. Beating slapping hitting maiming and the like don't require a huge set up. Just hit them

>>50602821
>Di-Cang
Iirc elemental kith. I think from Winter Masques.

>>50602938
Secret of the Covenants which just came out. Two new Coils, you can read their preview http://theonyxpath.com/ordo-dracul-merits-and-mysteries-the-rites-of-the-dragon-vampire-the-requiem/

>>50603069
How good is the final version of them?

>>50603123
bout as good as you english

>>50603145
That's a grammatically correct sentence, anon...
"How good is the final version [of those Mysteries]".

>>50603123
No idea. I haven't read it yet. It will surely be shared by someone sooner or later.

>>50602829
The 2e Seeming is about how you escaped your endless eternal sate.
For you think about it as how you took your freedom. Ogres respond with brutal violence. lashing out.
Elementals become one with nature.
Beasts rely on their animal cunning and instinct.
Darklings use Stealth, cunning and Trickery
Fairest lead others out.
Wizended use their crafts to escape.

So using an old Ask a Ninja about Nin'ternship. Your training ended when you left. You were not told when to leave, you just felt that it was the time. How you escaped becomes your Seeming.

Is the V20 books not in the mega? I was looking for Cainite Conspiracies for cant even find any V20 books. Am I stupid or are they not in there?

>>50603255
Of course it should be noted that being seemingless is even more possible now, it just comes with a stigma AND makes things harder for you.

>>50603774
So "my keeper let me go" and "I escaped completely by accident/unintentionally" are viable in 2e?

Sounds like there's MORE support for less-horrible Durances in 2e.

>>50603418
IT JUST FUCKING CAME OUT IT'S NOT LIKE DRIVETHRU RPG UPLOADS SHIT TO THE MEGA. Stop being a cheapskate, buy it, remove the trivially-easy to clean watermark, then share it. For fuck's sake.

>>50603843
OPP products have watermarks now?

>>50603843
Why don't you buy it :^)

>>50603796
More or less, it's what happens when you make seeming tied to escaping, not anyone that doesn't escape can just be seemingless but still have their kith so they look fucking weird. Though you lose out on contract bonuses and Clarity gain/losses through your seeming.

>>50603843
Dude I was just asking chill a bit and I would still like to know if the V20 books are just not in the mega. That seems weird to me

>>50603880
The name and order # on the bottom of the pages, the DTRPG watermarks. THey're trivially easy to remove.

>>50603903
We've had people demanding that people buy, strip the watermark off of, and upload pdfs that came out literally yesterday since the minute they came out.

That anon probably thought you were one of those assholes, back in here being demanding again.

Oh, no I dont assume or demand them. I was mostly wondering where the V20 books went? I culd have sworn they used to be in the mega. I have most of them do we need them uploaded?

>>50603796
>>50603774
>>50603889
Isn't Seemingless something different?

>>50603905
>>50603880
>>50603955
Looking at the copy a friend gave me, there isn't one. OPP doesn't watermark.

>>50603889
>Though you lose out on contract bonuses and Clarity gain/losses through your seeming.
The slow and inevitable slide down to Clarity 2 or so is half the fun of Changeling anyway.

I enjoy going bugfuck insane in CtL and completely losing sight of what's real in favour of smelling the colour blue and tasting the sound of my Keeper's voice over my shoulder, David Hill's concerns of offense toward the mentally-ill be damned.

>>50603955
>>50603986
Forgot to reply :S

>>50603995
OPP does watermark, it's just they only watermark AFTER it's been looked over by the fans for mistakes

Speaking about Drivethru, could someone who is registered there upload somewhere https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product_info.php?products_id=92564 ? I don't want to register there and give away my email just to download free pdf. Thanks.

>>50603995
What else would being seemingless be? It's the absence of a seeming man, ergo you don't get the mechanics for it.

>>50604092
>what is gmail/yahoo/any other email service to get a throwaway email?

>>50604092
What the shit are you afraid of?

>>50604102
I don't know. I don't even see that as an option in the playtest material, aside from a mention of "rare changelings without a seeming".

>>50603905
>THey're trivially easy to remove.
Legitimately how? I've got some books for other games I've tried to dewatermark but never got anywhere. All I wound up with was some fucked up formatting.

>>50604272
The name/order#? VeryPDF PDF Text Replacer. It lets you pick by 'position' so you just click on the area, it'll grab the text, though you have to do it as one-word per entry, but you can do multiple entires at once.

>>50604230
Thanks to the fact I don't share my personal data, I'm actually not afraid of being tracked. And I would like to keep it like that. If you are curious, I don't use any social networks either, I use private browsing, proxy and that all from VM. In future I would like to improve it by using free wifi and spoofing MAC. Better safe than sorry.

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>>50604324
>This level of paranoia...

>>50604324
I'm going to go with >>50604391 you do know that while companies will sell out your email address, no one's really going to track you down or anything?

I mean, yeah, Snowden, we should all be extra careful with our digital information, but there comes a point where avoiding the fringe possibility of something untoward becomes unworth the hassle.

After all, you can still be stalked physically.

>>50604324
Are you one of those guys who just games over IRC, or do you show up at the local game store in a trench coat, fedora, and face mask like an old time super hero just in case anybody tries to identify you for playing Vampire sex games?

>>50604494

Please don't shame the way I dress when I go out in public, thank you.

So WoDG.

I want to do a mindscrew game. I have been rewatching the anime Utena and, while not as obtuse as that, I want to do something mindscrewy. Would Changeling the Lost be a good way to do crazy architecture and landscapes and such?

>>50604611
Changeling, Werewolf, Mage and -maybe- Geist are good for non-euclidean geomtry, due to all of them having some interaction with places that don't really work like 'reality'.

>>50604493
whenever i sign up to sites i just make a throwaway mail accoutn or use something like https://10minutemail.com/10MinuteMail/index.html

keeping your privacy is fine
crippling yourself needlessly is unnecessary

>>50604708
I was thinking Changeling because it's more actual realm, where Mage you don't go there 'physically' a lot of it's stuff like the Astral. Plus a sealed-away True Fae trying to get out through manipulated hobs and 'lings sounds interesting, if a little cliche.

>>50603255

So what if i wanna play a social ogre? Or a legolas (fairest) who fights with bow and arrows but is pretty and agile? I am shit out of luck then?

I mean a fairest can only be a leader type now and in their durance?

>>50604840
No of course not, seemings don't fucking matter man it's the kith that matters, it's what defines your abilities. Seeming is literally jus, "This is how I escaped/broke down and went aginst my morals to get out of my abuse, even if it meant making others suffer more."

>>50604840
Kiths aren't tied to seeming so legolas would be fine. Ogre might be a bit fucky but you could fudge it so your otherwise meek social character was isolated to the point where violence towards their keeper and it's minions felt like the only option to escape. Big and buff because the narrative of arcadia said so, not so much because it fits the character.

>>50605028
Legolas was a prince. So if you lead your fellows out. Congrats your a fairest. You are a natural at being a leader but that doesn't mean you HAVE to be the leader 100% of the time or lead the motley.

Ogres can be social, but a hulking brute likely uses their fists the moment "negations broke down"

Question for some one new to wod
Will the hurt locker work with v20?

>>50600134
Demon seems like the best fit honestly.

>>50604493
I think a bit of hassle is worth the privacy. It's hard to imagine what all can be discovered from "anonymised" data. Web of Trust being recent example.

>>50604494
Firstly I don't think we have here any specialised game stores here, secondly in RL I employ strategy of not drawing attention. I have quite a few friends who have no idea how paranoid I am. Also I'm not degenerate, if I wanted get rid of sexual tension, I would watch porn not roleplay some Aspel fantasy.

>>50604725
I usually prefer not using one time use registrations, because when I need to later something else, I register again and then feel little bad for needlessly creating another account (I know, stupid), but fuck them it's their own fault.

>>50604611
Except Vampire and Prommie everything works. Mage or some God-Machine's mindfuck would be probably best.

>>50605081
No. Hurt Locker is CofD, v20 WoD - different rules.

What happened to one of the megas with all the old wod content. I went to download them to my new computer and the mega is gone. Anyone have a new copy?

>>50605117
It's in the pastebin.

>>50605138
Unfortunately not, It says the folder you are trying to access is no longer available

>>50604840
First off, you should stop thinking of the Seemings as being the same way they are in 1e. Drop the associations you have with the terms "Ogre" and "Fairest".

If you want to be a Social Ogre, you can, but the theme of Ogres is violence or the threat of violence, so that colours their actions.
If you want to be a pretty agile fighter Fairest, you can be, but they're leaders and shining symbols regardless.

Pick your Seeming based on what kind of character you want to be, not based on what the connotations of those Seemings were in 1e.

I was upset that my Fairest from 1e didn't fit, but then I realized that being a Beast fits perfectly and he can still be a beautiful hobo succubus type.

>>50605028
Seeming does matter, it just doesn't matter in the same way as 1e.

>>50605072
A Social Ogre could also be that kind of person who is small and unassuming, but you get the impression you wouldn't want to make him angry.

>>50605110
But you're missing out on quite a lot. It's not even what can be discovered from anonymized data, it's about whether there's a reasonable risk to you personally.

>>50605110
Is there any kind of equipment supplement for v20?

>>50605188
So it does. The WoD folder is ded now.

>>50605028
But isnt seeming tie to what how contracts works with my pc?

>>50605258
But I need it. Could someone who had all the pdfs create another mega or share them via their drive?

>>50605072

What if i want the cool power and contracts of a fairest but i dont wanna lead during my durance?

I mean there examples like prince nuada from hellboy 2 or tauriel. Pretty agile elves that dont lead.

>>50605245
>Pick your Seeming based on what kind of character you want to be, not based on what the connotations of those Seemings were in 1e.

Kinda difficult, if i wanna play a pretty agile drizzt elf then fairest. Wizened isnt the same really.

Can the whole seeming is tie to durancr be ignore and just choose what concept you want and fit the durance later? Or is too tied to mechanic/we dont know yet?

>>50605384
Prince Nuada lead in the past, he lead is people in the war against the humans. Also it isn't during your durance that you lead, it was that brief moment when you escaped. After your durance when you do is up to you.

Not familiar with Tauriel off hand. Can't speak to them.

>>50605438
It isn't tied to the Durance it's tied to how you ended your durance.

Drizz't would be a Wizened soldier almost. Not so much a fairest. He was best know for his skill and made his escape from the under dark based on raw skill and ability in his craft as a swordsman.

>>50605319
Try here?

https://mega.nz/#F!KI00XCZA!sFV9L2S77bld5vzEmw5-vg

>>50605522
And here...

https://mega.nz/#F!YIgVwQKY!ykGezjo3qppcgHXzTKuBGQ

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64KB, 374x233px

>>50605522
>>50605553
Holy shit, thank you based anon.

File: download.jpg (8KB, 183x275px) Image search: [Google]

8KB, 183x275px

>>50605522
Thank you man, It's a start but I still greatly appreciate it

>>50605600
Next post, anon.

That one has EVERYTHING.

>>50605480

But isnt contracts tied to seeming now? In first edition fairest had the separation contracts but you buy any contract you like no question asked so you could get fairest agility and ogre strenght. But now it seems your seeming determines all your powers.

>>50605603
ugghhghhg It does, I need to buy that man a drink.

>>50605607
No no see, Seemings get affinity bonuses to contracts, you can still use the base version of the contract.

>>50605623
This is what comes of fucking around on 7chan. Also, I found a book that I was missing on the second link for the new MET line so... well, there we go.

>>50605626

Ah i though it was something like werewolf were a gift had facets like honor facet, etc.

>>50605654
Traditional games is the best board on 4chan. You get the usual bitching and shitposting but it still has the best people that are willing to help a fellow fa/tg/uy.

>>50605553
Yo! Cheers man!

So, who here enjoys Requiem for Rome, if anyone?

>>50605522
>>50605553
Thank you, senpai.

>>50605735
Yeah it doesn't work like that. Anyone can buy any contract. And you can even buy other seeming's contract bonuses, but if you are that seeming you get this little extra bonus for free.

>>50606333

Gotcha, thanks for the explanation anon.

Camera Obscura (•••)
Prerequisites: Unseen Sense •• (Ghost) or (Spirit)
Effect: Your character is able to capture ephemeral entities
on camera, damaging them in the process. Doesn’t matter
whether it’s through the viewfinder of a high-end digital
camcorder or a grainy cell phone’s front facing camera, this
ability is tied to the soul of the character rather than any particular piece of technology. By spending a point of Willpower,
she can focus her camera on any un-Manifested entity she is
aware of and perceive it through the device as if it were visible. Every turn spent focusing, roll Wits + Expression – the
entity’s Defense; successes inflict bashing damage.
Drawback: Use of this ability immediately causes the
Open Condition on the surrounding area for any entity affected for the rest of the scene.

Cause you know, fuck it, why not. Lets just do Fatal Frame.

>>50601724
Will this be the Pathfinder to WoD's D&D?

>>50605438
Again: Pick your Seeming based on your character and how they escaped and how they act, not the connotations from 1e.

My 1e Fairest was a pretty hobo, a succubus who escaped from a shitty relationship and was now afraid of settling down. In 2e, that fits much more with Beast. It's a bit easy for me, since he was a faunish type goatboy, but Beast (or possibly Darkling) fits the best, Fairest doesn't fit at all. He can still be pretty without being Fairest.

Seeming is how you escaped, Kith is what your Durance was.

>>50605480
Why Wizened? Unless you want to say that FIGHTING is his ART, in which case that sounds edgy as fuck, but okay.

>>50605607
Here, just read the playtest pack
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9HTbTc08O4ISWpIbnU4dmlGY2c/view

If anyone wants, in the Discord Hill linked some stuff that was cut from Secrets:
Carthian Devotions http://pastebin.com/u/ericateachesnyc
Invictus Devotions http://pastebin.com/u/knightchelsea

There's also a twitter account for @ericateachesnyc if you're interested in Hill pretending to be a catty Leftist vampire chick for the last year or so.

There was supposed to be a secret easter egg that lead to the Twitter account, but it got cut.

>>50606640
>My 1e Fairest was a pretty hobo, a succubus who escaped from a shitty relationship and was now afraid of settling down. In 2e, that fits much more with Beast. It's a bit easy for me, since he was a faunish type goatboy, but Beast (or possibly Darkling) fits the best, Fairest doesn't fit at all. He can still be pretty without being Fairest.

So what you saying is that seeming doesnt have any physical connotations?

I could say, pick a beast seeming but my PC looks exactly like a fire elemetal? With beast not playing a part in how he looks.

>>50606677
https://twitter.com/ericateachesnyc/status/683955749278466048?lang=en

Jesus christ

>>50606722
It still factors in, but you can stretch the limits more. The Beast-Succubus looks more like a faun or ye olde devil than the sexier 'human' interpretation. A Beast-Fire Elemental would be a wolf-man made of flames or a phoenix.

>>50606772
>tfw Ventrue Carthian

>>50606788

So could i make say a wizened that just looks like legolas and nothing stops me per raw?

>>50606826
Sure, you know, if looking just like Legolas means that you literally have body parts mdae of a bow.

So if I want to have a werewolf character that is like the Predator In the movies. Whats the best Auspice-Tribe combo

>>50606677

David Hill showed up in the Discord chat?

>>50606789
It's cool, there were plenty of Russian nobility that joined the Bolsheviks.

>>50606722
>>50606788
>wolf-man made of flames
That's less likely, though not impossible. Don't think of "Beast" as "animal", think of it as "Wild". And some of your Durance will have been influenced by your Seeming as well. Seeming is crystalized when you finally escape, but that doesn't mean it wasn't there in some capacity before. The housewife sick of being tied down who runs away but ends up in the Hedge is more likely to realize that she needs to double down and keep running, fleeing from the hunting hounds like a fox. The artist taken in by the dark and mysterious benefactor who breaks out of his captivity by painting himself as the canvas.

>>50606826
>>50606845
A Wizened escapes through becoming one with their art. That means a Wizened who was an archer is likely to have eagle eyes, strong sinewy arms, and fingers adept at pulling taut the string. And on top of this those are likely to be *real* eagle eyes, his hair may be fletching, his limbs yew, and his skin a Lincoln green.

>>50606846
Irakka Hunter in Darkness

>>50606845

So then a typical elf made of flesh is impossible unless i play fairest and thus my escape was made by leading. I could buy it if the seeming didnt necessarily have to had anything to do with how you look but this seems well shitty.

Kinda the appeal of 1st edition was the Star Wars cantina, make your changeling the way you want but now it seems incredibly limiting to me, i guess i will join those sticking to 1st edition then.

>>50606885
Yes

>>50606926
You act like Seeming had nothing to do with how you looked or acted in 1e. Hell, by default you could only be one of certain Kiths depending on your Seeming.

Also, Legolas wouldn't fit in at Mos Eisley.

Again, I suggest you actually read the playtest package instead of trying to figure this out from bits and pieces of what five different people try to explain to you.

Also, it's unlikely that even a Fairest would look "normal", though they are the kind most likely to be elfen.

>>50606959

Man, the Discord chat is more popular than I thought.

>>50606980
Filamena was on it, so I assume she brought him in.
Chris is in there, too.

>>50606915
>A Wizened escapes through becoming one with their art. That means a Wizened who was an archer is likely to have eagle eyes, strong sinewy arms, and fingers adept at pulling taut the string. And on top of this those are likely to be *real* eagle eyes, his hair may be fletching, his limbs yew, and his skin a Lincoln green.

But thats more a RP suggestion or its enforced? Say i got a character concept but his background (escape/seeming) clashes with the way i want the PC to look like. Can i plant my feet and say "look, i want my character look like this, im gonna pick this seeming because that how he escape but i dont want the seeming to affect how he looks"

For example i played the social ogre who was an oni who worked in a fairy bathhouse for ogres doing numbers (1st, Seeming ogre dual kith with oni and druge), she escape saving "money" in secret to buy her freedom.

The basic concept was an ogre(oni) who wanted to be social but was stuck being an ogre with the short temper that come from it. But from what i read my background forces me to play an Darkling or Wizened (for hiding money) which doesnt have anything to do with my concept or what i wanna play.

>>50606959
>Also, Legolas wouldn't fit in at Mos Eisley.

Star wars cantina mean those kind what the fuckery in which any mismatch things are allowed. Kinda like sigil from planescape.

>>50606640
Martial Arts are a thing. You know They have been for a long time. For Centuries even.

>>50607008

Goddamn. This thread's moving up in the world. Eat your heart out, Giant in the Playground.

>>50607008
Oh shit good boy Chris is there? Might make up for Hill.

Chris if you see this, you're one of my favorite boys at OPP, right next to Matthew and Brookshaw

>>50607113
I know. It's valid. It just feels very "Kung Fu Aficionado Toreador" to me.

>>50607116
You do know it's the Discord for http://wodcodex.com/ and not the thread, right?

>>50607136
Toreador were a mistake.

>>50606926
Yes you can. Wizened doesn't have to look like they described, they just have to look like someone who would be exceptionally suited to their art, with all the tools needed built in. So while your arms and legs are likely not made of yew wood, as that would make archery harder, you do likely have eagle like eyes, and your fingers are hardened material. To make pulling back the bow string easier.

>>50606959
>Again, I suggest you actually read the playtest package instead of trying to figure this out from bits and pieces of what five different people try to explain to you.

Ok i read it, i dont like it. I though it was limiting, then i ask, then i read the parts about seeming and kith and found out it was indeed as limiting as i though.

The fact that i cant match any escape to any durance with kith seeming is pretty arbitrary and seems Hill didnt thought that players could have better ideas than the ones he thought.

Damm shame the game seems to constricting, i just hope the whole seeming related to escape can be easily ignore for my games and dont have many rules attach to it.

>>50607053
Well I would first ask, since Oni can now pair up to ANY seeming without a merit, what draws your to the Ogre's path? What in Ogre is it that you are looking for for your social build?

A ST can help you find what you are looking for. Otherwise I would ask, is there a moment you can add some violence to that situation like ripping the thorns of the hedge up to make the path you escaped upon?

But no one is going to shout "No no no You can't look 100% like that." Even the most prickly stick to it GM would ask you describe what you think would make the perfect archer? And that is what you would look like. After all it was by mastery of your craft which you have become a reflection of.

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>love Requiem for Rome
>super hype for Forsaken by Rome and Alexandrian Mummy
>mfw finding out Cthulhu Invictus is getting a new edition and three years of support

>>50607303
>Well I would first ask, since Oni can now pair up to ANY seeming without a merit, what draws your to the Ogre's path? What in Ogre is it that you are looking for for your social build?

Because i liked the concept of playing a Ogre who really really wanted to by this badass ice cold social powerhouse she was in her previous life but cant nopw because....Ogre temper

>>50607218
It's not that restrictive.
You can match any escape(Seeming) to any durance (kith) you want. The only limit is your imagination.

>>50607353
Okay, is there any way, any moment you can work a moment of violence into your escape. After all you may have bought your freedom from your master but that just means your free to roam around Arcadia not leave it.

How can that Ogre temper help you escape? Maybe in a fun or funny social way?

>>50607373
>>50607353
An Ogre can be the THREAT of violence as much as the actual smashing. A moment of rage and intimidation causing someone else to back down.

>>50607355
>It's not that restrictive.
>You can match any escape(Seeming) to any durance (kith) you want. The only limit is your imagination.

I think you miss the point there, i said "Match any Durance and escape with any kith and seeming.

>>50607303
>But no one is going to shout "No no no You can't look 100% like that." Even the most prickly stick to it GM would ask you describe what you think would make the perfect archer? And that is what you would look like. After all it was by mastery of your craft which you have become a reflection of.

Does those changes always have to be external? The draft is not clear on that. I could say that the PC internal ligaments where modify by a chirugeon to be handle any bow in arcadia. He doesnt look different from a "D&D" elf but neither does he has animal parts or is made of bow.

>>50607420
Internal changes? I don't see why not, only I'd ask if you wanted to go a step further and maybe say your arm and back muscles were augmented with synthetic tissues. Either way you'd have surgical scars. Member though, becoming Wizended is what you did to you, not what your former master did to you.

>>50607218
It is literally less restrictive. You just want to be pretty and elven without being

>>50607217
>your arms and legs are likely not made of yew wood, as that would make archery harder
You have changelings literally made of stone that have no trouble moving.

>>50607053
Your character isn't an Ogre, they're a Darkling or Wizened. Ogres aren't the guys who do the books, unless they're the bookie who threatens to break your legs. That would even have been true in 1e.

>>50607353
So you don't want to play an Ogre, you're just attached to your own connotations of the term "Ogre".
>>50607373
Ogre isn't what they want.

>>50607420
Again, you're looking at this shit the wrong way. In fact, how about this. Tell us what your character is like without using Kiths or Seemings and we'll match one for you. Also, the Change is always physical, that's sort of the whole point.

>>50607408
Oh yes good point. So if unlike Sen from Spirited away who meekly asked favors, and pleaded with others you tried that and when things didn't go your way you threatened to bring violence. You gave clear indication if they didn't let you go you'd bring the bath house down around their pointy ears.

>>50607505
I'm pretty sure ogre is exactly what they want. They seem to want the anger and the violence seething beneath the surface. They seem to want want to play "you wouldn't like me when I'm angry".

>>50607593
Though I will question the Oni, as the Oni durance is one of being the masters enforcer and iron fist. Were you some sort of bouncer for the Bath House?

>>50607505
>Your character isn't an Ogre, they're a Darkling or Wizened. Ogres aren't the guys who do the books, unless they're the bookie who threatens to break your legs. That would even have been true in 1e.

Not really, a bathouse for onis could have vapors or temperatures that would be lethal so the character became an oni and thus adapted to survive. There, i justify a oni accountant in 1st.

>>50607505
>So you don't want to play an Ogre, you're just attached to your own connotations of the term "Ogre".

Well yes, my concept was ogre who want to be ventrue but cant. Ogre is one of the main key words for the concept.

>>50607505
>Tell us what your character is like without using Kiths or Seemings and we'll match one for you. Also, the Change is always physical, that's sort of the whole point.

A middle age lawyer who wants to be ice cold and calculating but has a short temper and superhuman strenght.

>>50607638

Nope just a towel lady, i like the imagery of the japanesse bathhouses.

>>50607638
>>50607593
I would argue that saving up money is more fitting for a Darkling who has a bad temper. I'm also not sure how his character fits as an Oni, either.

>>50607700
Please tell me how hot vapour makes you into a sin consuming demon, which is what 1e Oni were. They heal damage by eating people who are Morality 6 or less.

>Ogre is one of the main key words for the concept.
It shouldn't be. Your character doesn't fit as an Ogre. It barely sounds like it would fit in 1e.
>A middle age lawyer who wants to be ice cold and calculating but has a short temper and superhuman strenght.
Better. But that could be any Seeming. If he got out by scheming and saving up, (likely at the cost of others) I'd say Darkling fits best.
Though you've given no reason he's an Oni, or anything similar from 2e.

>>50607730
So you want to be something that completely doesn't fit, but you're complaining that it doesn't fit?
The towel lady doesn't become a fucking demon.

>>50607730
So what you want is the appearance of a creature similar to the classical depictions of an Oni. Well we can do that without needing to use the Oni Durance.

Describe her experiences as a towel lady. What happened to her in the bath house? Because so far I'm seeing more of a Chantel Durance.

Again easily allowable for your visual desire you just need to add how that Ogre rage and temper allowed you to escape. Did your master try to change the bargin on that money they owed you? And you intimidated them into backing down by the furry of your anger? Did you have to mug someone to get that last bit of money? Or did another resident employee try to steel your money and you had to beat them down to protect it?

Is there a pdf of Hurt Locker floating around?

>>50607817
To be honest a Dual Kith Chatelaine / Flameheart would be the perfect thing for your character. Adapted to working around and existing in steam even making your body into a living towel warmer as your flesh was made warmer and warmer. You were made to serve with dignity and grace in your purpose as a towel girl.

Having that classic Oni red skin, a horn, the tiger skin uniform even if you want or the more classic work clothes (not sure what they are called off hand.) But sure you could have red skin and horns no problem. Easy.

>>50607911

I second the Chatelaine / Flameheart recommendation.

>>50607944
Thank you, I guess I am getting a good grasp on the Kiths then.

>>50607817
Chatterlaine.

And I'd ask why she ended up looking like an oni, to be honest. Even if she's not that Kith, he really seems like he wants a character who's looks and attitude are completely unrelated to what she went through, in a game where looks and attitude are tied to what you've been through (and that was true of 1e, although I'll admit many people ignored that)

I still say that Darkling or even Wizened (since they poured themselves into the job) would work better.

Broadback Wizened.

>>50607911
>>50607944
I don't think Chatelaine fits. They want to NOT be social, but want to be. There's also not much reason to Dual Kith. A Broadback (or Metalflesh) that looks like a traditional Oni fits best. Big, imposing, made for laboring. The character concept is that they *want* to be a Ventrue, but don't really have anything to back it up. Unless I misunderstood, and they do have the chops to back it up, but also have a short temper.
Flameheart also seems unnecessary, but can't hurt.

>>50608051
Well a Towel girl is a customer facing position where they would be required to interact with the customers every day, every hour, handing out warm fluffy towels to the patrons. This is a domestic servant role. The very definition of Chatelaine who are defined as being domestic servants.

The flame heart is to keep the towels warm and fresh from the laundry fluffy of course.

Somehow Rory has gone from telling someone he's wrong about how he wants to play a charecter, but is also telling the fucking dev they're wrong. Nice.

>>50608266
Isn't that what everyone in these threads does?

>>50608260
Mechanically a Chatelaine is all about keeping appearances and not breaking ettiquette, which doesn't really match with anon's short tempered character.

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Continuing my ideas from here >>50608260
for some thoughts about here
>>50608051

They indicated that this isn't just a Japanese bath house, but one that serves fey (possibly true fey, and changelings) who have strong ties to that culture. It is likely then that to be reformed into a pleasant to look upon variation of the Oni Female would help in her Chatelaine as it would make the customers feel at ease around her as she would look familiar to them.

>>50608316
You know now that I think about it, wouldn't Chatelaine kinda make the short temper thing not work since their power makes them unable to fuck up being polite and proper.

>>50608307
True, they NOW struggle with their temper but when they started off as a towel girl, they weren't an Ogre they were just the Chatelaine / Flameheart. So they could have been very proper and refined until they escaped. When they escaped they started to let their temper boil over, and explode breaking her facade of perfect etiquette.

>>50608338
Not really, she just can't be forced into it. She can choose now to accept it and embrace it. She can still have a short temper, she just has to not make a roll in regards to etiquette once she gets pissed off.

Even makes a lot of since with the trying to be Ventrue like because she once had that venture refinement as the perfect Japanese lady working as a towel girl. Now, she's got a temper brewing just below the surface and as long as it looks like talking is working she will bite her tongue for a little longer. Otherwise she'll kick ass, and serve apology saki later.

That sounds like it works.

>>50608338
That's what I said :V

>>50608358
I suppose. I still don't think that Ogre fits, myself. That's why I think Broadback would fit better. Or if you want to go for something pretty, maybe one of the "look pretty but don't talk" types.

>>50608418
>Blessing:The changeling can never fail a roll to express proper manners and etiquette, and adds one success on such rolls. Additionally, she may spend a Glamour to add her Wyrd to Presence and Manipulation rolls for the rest of the scene. Any supernatural power which would force her into a social faux pas automatically fails.
This doesn't sound very "doesn't have the chops to be a Ventrue type and is short tempered". They're supernaturally well mannered.

>>50608457
Then again, Broadback doesn't fit either, since they're hard to piss off. Guess they changed that from 1e.

I guess they also got ride of Drudge.

>>50601882
Circle of the Crone
The others could work, too, but CoC requires the least ST finagling.

>>50606677
So question are there any Obfuscate focused combat devotions?

>>50608801
Not in that list. There are a few in the corebook, like Touch of Deprivation, which removes senses.

I'm surprised there's no "sneak up and deal a killing blow" power.

>>50609018
Touch of Deprivation is listed as Auspex and Dominate Anon

>>50609101
Man, I really need to stop using the copy labeled Blood & Smoke.
It lists the requirements as Obfuscate and Dominate, but the dicepool as Auspex. I hadn't noticed that.

Obfuscate honestly sounds more appropriate.

>>50608538
What do you mean with finagling?

do BS vampires still not turn up on camera images?

>>50611989
>A vampire does not lack a reflection. You just never see her
>in the mirror. The Beast knows precisely where to stand. A
>vampire is not a blurred mess in a photograph, but for some
>reason, never seems to look at the camera, or the flash smears
>the image, or it goes over- or under-exposed.
>Frustrating, yes, but hardly supernatural. Unless you are a
>rogue statistics professor, manically analyzing vampire sightings
>and...what was that in the mirror? Surely nothing. Surely too
>much caffeine. Surely.

>>50612068
awesome. can I get a page reference?

>>50612138
p. 60

>>50612215
cheers

How loyal are neighbouring werewolf packs to eachother, when one has a somewhat violent dispute with a vampire?

>>50612068
I can get not getting worked up over blurred photos, but someone not having a reflection is much more noticeable and extremely suspicious.

What's the general opinion here on the Blood Sorcery supplement?

>>50612290
>How loyal are neighbouring werewolf packs to eachother
Cordial, not loyal.
>vampire dispute
Wouldn't give a flying fuck, so long as it didn't spill onto their turf or upset the local spirit ecology/draw heat.
That said, a bargain could be waged for assistance in dealing with such a thing.

Oh wow. Reading the Carthian section of SotC has single handedly killed any interest I ever had in playing a Carthian character, or including them as anything other than shit-for-brains, cannon-fodder antagonist NPCs.

>>50612380
How so?

>>50612380
Read the Carthian 1e sourcebook and forget everything you read in SotC?

>>50612380
I am not seeing secrets of the covenants in the mega?

>>50612380
Anyone happen to know who wrote what parts of SotC?

>>50612622
Well then he probably bought it.

>>50612327
Another thing that could happen is that the region is solidified as a protectorate. In that case the packs might have mutual defence treaties.

So, in general, when comparing Werewolf to Vampire, it's best to see different packs as members of different covenants. That's the relationship between them, in general.

>>50612380
What? I thought the stuff that was added to them were great! Their fighting style is awesome.

>>50612380
Yeah, they might as well just have copy-pasted from Classic WoD Anarch books.

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>>50612380
>you

>>50612380

That bad?

>>50612311
>What's the general opinion here on the Blood Sorcery supplement?

It seemed more like an updated Mage 1.5 than a Vampire supplement and was horrible unbalanced and overpowered.

It's also the last 1e supplement and it shows.

>>50613663

On the other hand people mostly recommend replacing theban/cruac with the system of blood sorcery. Even 2nd edition recomends it.

That said, the book offers no guidelines for the sacrifice required of theban sorcery. And the whole edgy poetry as magic is weird and not very clear however flavorful it could be.

>>50613663
>>50613708

The book had a lot of potential, but ended up sorely lacking in many mechanical aspects, was wildly overpowered in others, and just seemed unpolished, almost like a mediocre fan supplement that wasn't play-tested at all. The systems also had so few restrictions and were so open-ended that at times it appeared a mid-level practitioner of TS or Cruac could decimate an experienced master 2e Mage, and therefore stepped-on too many thematic toes (even to people who do not subscribe to the belief that mages are or should be all-powerful).

I would love to see DaveB and Malcolm Shepherd attempt a Blood Sorcery 2e.

>>50613855

So assuming no crossover with mage in a setting where mages dont exist, is the supplement that broken?

>>50613947

Broken? It depends on what you want and expect in a Vampire game. Some people will definitely love the vast power expansion and an effective creative thaumaturgy system for Vampire nearly as open-ended as Mage. However, it will certainly make the LeS and CotC vastly unbalanced against members of the other Covenants.

If you're considering whether to buy the book, I would recommend you download it first to peruse, and if it suits your tastes and expectation, buy it and support OPP/WW.

>>50614100
This actually makes me think it'd work best in Requiem for Rome, where the Lancea et Sanctum is stacked against everyone else and the Cult of Augurs works with the rest of the Camarilla; it cuts down on balance issues and feeds in well to the narrative of unsanctioned sorcery being an illegal and terrifying thing.

>>50606548
That was exactly what I thought when I saw it.

>>50607337
???

>>50613708
>Even 2nd edition recomends it.
I must have missed this, where does it say it?

>>50614546
I mean, most of the Curac and Thebean sorcery in SotC are listed as if they where blood sorcery spells.

>>50614603
Having never seen the Blood Sorcery book, I'm not sure what you mean

>>50614640
As in their listed at dot and the number of dots in the branch or whatever of sorcery you'd use, ALA using creation, transmutation and divination.

Though now that I think about it, this might be them saying the dots for it in base 2e fashion and BS fashion

>>50614546

Page 151 under Inventing New Rituals sidebar.

"The supplement Blood Sorcery: Sacraments and Blasphemies provides a detailed system for improvising new rites and miracles, in which characters gain dots in ritual Themes as they progress in the Ritual Disciplines. If you’re using that system, refer to that book for when new Theme dots are gained and how to calculate the target number of successes and dice pool for improvised rituals, except for the time taken per roll. The ritual extended action here replaces the one in that book."

>>50613708
Wasn't Blood Sorcery hideously overpowered Mage-type bullshit? On top of all the other powers Vampires get just for being Vampires?

Like, Mages are pretty much the most powerful splat (or at least a definite contender for the top spot), and Arcana dots are basically ALL THEY GET in terms of what differentiates them from a baseline mortal.

>>50614866

Until Blood Sorcery i found Theban and Cruac to be waste of points. Now i can have all the fun of a Tremere in NWoD. YMMV i guess.

>>50614825
Thanks

>>50610869

>>50601406
I always feel like Robbie Rotten is just doing a Jim Carrey impression, and can't turn it off.

>>50614949
>Now i can have all the fun of a Tremere in NWoD

And that is precisely the problem with the book.

>>50610869
>>50615114

I mean that you'd have to frame them as a sub-faction, tangentially connected individual, or localized variant of the covenant.

Invictus would use mortal power structures to do most of their fighting, so direct physical
conflict is unusual for them.

Ordo Dracul is more of a "Hide until they go away, so I can SCIENCE! in peace." group, so that sort of conflict would be more likely for a specific elder trying to guard his turf, rather than anything particularly related to the covenant.

Carthians are a mess, and require ST planning no matter what.

Lancea et Sanctum isn't terribly difficult to work with, but the way they tie themselves to their Humanity and like to use mortal power structures (the church) makes direct contact between them and Hunters uncommon.

Now compare those to CoC, who already embrace the more predatory and monstrous aspects of vampirism.

>>50608801
IIRC, there's one in ...1E? that lets you "hide" your injuries and fake being invulnerable. Primary use is psychological warfare (make your opponent think they've bitten off more than they can chew), so a purist might not consider it a "real" combat devotion.

>>50612714
That's... a really good way to look at it, especially when you consider how incompatible two packs' totems might be.

>>50614825
>Vampires still get to use the extended action rules and accumulating successes for their rituals
Nevermind, Blood Sorcery is MORE broken than Mage Arcana.

>>50613663
>It seemed more like an updated Mage 1.5 than a Vampire supplement and was horrible unbalanced and overpowered.
>It's also the last 1e supplement and it shows.
I feel like it was a last-ditch effort to bring Vampires up to the power level of Mages, Mummies, Geists, etc. Vampires were the first 1e splat and got hit the hardest by the "we want regular mortals to actually be a threat to monster PCs in nWoD" bat.

Except then 2e gave Vampires all sorts of other upgrades to bring them up to par with everyone else, and now according to >>50614825 they still get in 2e on top of all their other upgrades.

>>50600092
>What books would you use to play a noir-esque game?

"Hunters Hunted II".

>>50607870
Not unless you bought and uploaded it.

>>50605248

I don't think so, besides the stuff on page 280-281 in the V20 Core Rulebook.

How do you gain vehicles in Chronicles of Darkness?

>>50613855
>I would love to see DaveB and Malcolm Shepherd attempt a Blood Sorcery 2e.
Dave has said before that he likes Blood Sorcery and how it works.

>>50616981
Of course he does, he is the Mage guy

>>50616981
Is he the "if you want game balance you're infantile munchkin" guy?

>>50616945
...you buy them with resource dots?

>>50616945
You kill someone and take their's

>>50617087
So how many resource dots do they cost? Because I haven't seen any ratings in the core book

>>50617116
You get a car of a quality depending on how many dots you have. 1 gets you a cheapass econobox, 5 dots lets you get the really fun toys.

Also, check the armory. It has more vehicles.

>>50617136
Isn't Resources 1 the cost of, like, a flashlight or something? I feel like that system might be sorta TOO mushy in circumstances like that. (I also seem to recall cars being Resources 3 and up in NWoD, but I could be either wrong or they've changed it in CofD)

>>50617011
No, that's someone else. Matt I think?

>>50617211
Yup, it's Matt. Beast guy.

>>50617197
Resources 1 can still afford shelter, so shitbox could be justified if it breaks down occasionally

>>50616981
I have?

>>50617237
>>50617197
Actually, yeah, that would actually work.

>Resources 1 character can afford a car
>but it has a decent chance to break down when dramatically convenient

>>50617237
Resources 1 is you take the bus

>>50617271
I thought that was 0.

>>50617288
0 is you walk

>>50617248
News to me, too.

>>50617248
I was told you were let go or something, that's why we will never have an FAQ

How are you enjoying the job centre?

>>50617271
Resource 2 is bike

>>50617237
Resources 1 means you have a working class income, so you can probably afford a car.

>>50617237
>>50617197
>>50617269
The problem with Resources is that making everything rated on a five point scale creates so many problems. Most cars would be at least 3 dots of Resources, which means saving up. But if you *have* three dots of Resources, that means if you buy a car you're then losing your Resources as well.

Resources is also not wealth in general. You can be rich and have Resources 1. It just means that you've got no money on hand in liquid assets.

I think Resources should really be rated on a ten point scale default and then Cost changed to fit what things should reasonably cost. All but the poorest characters are going to be able to afford most of what's currently costed at Availability 1.

Then there are things that are weirdly expensive, like machete, which you can get from Walmart or a gardening store.

>>50616981
>>50617248
I remember him saying something along the lines of "the main thing I'd change is making sure that the shit you can do with it is restricted to within sufficiently vampiric theming", but that doesn't mean he likes it as-is.

For one thing, extended action ritual casting is broken as hell, and it was purged with fire from Mage, so I imagine the same would happen to vampire blood sorcery.

For another thing, Mages basically don't GET any toys aside from their magic and they're still considered the most powerful splat. Vampiric blood sorcery would need to take into account all the shit Vampires get from their Template and Disciplines (especially since, IIRC, Blood Sorcery has comparable costs to Disciplines, so it shouldn't be far-and-away better than investing a similar amount of XP into Disciplines).

>>50617355
I seriously doubt people use availability as written. It is completely busted for items, and even worse for services.

So, if I wanted to play as a vampire psychiatrist who also dabbled in creating therapeutic drugs for the Kindred, would Cruac be the best way to go for making them?

>>50617409
>"the main thing I'd change is making sure that the shit you can do with it is restricted to within sufficiently vampiric theming"

I actually rather liked that Theban Sorcery/Cruac were a little more diverse back in the day. All the different rituals still had a pretty dark aesthetic to them but overall they did a lot of different things. I certainly prefer that approach to "here are five increasingly powerful ways to draw blood from people" some it's got now.

>>50617011
>>50617211
>>50617229
Matt is the one who thinks game balance is a lie because white-rooms don't exist, and therefore imbalances don't exist (because apparently they only occur in white rooms, and if the ST isn't GM-fiating his ass off to level the playing field using the scene/story/environment it's the ST's fault and not the game's fault).

Dave is on record saying that game balance is extremely important WITHIN a splat. When it comes to cross-splat balance, he goes with "whichever fits the respective game's themes the best". He's not willing to, say, nerf Mages to make put them on equal footing with Deviants, because one of the themes of Mage is HAVING the power and deciding how to responsibly USE (or not use) it, whereas Deviant is about being an underdog trying to figure out how to take down an entire shadowy conspiracy by yourself. Mage's themes are served by Mages being hideously powerful. Deviant's themes are served by Deviants being pretty underpowered (or at least, not hideously powerful without equally-hideous drawbacks).

>>50617197
>>50617237
Resources also amounts to DISPOSABLE income. If you have a nice car, but now your income is all tied up in car payments (and insurance payments), you could be Resources 0 and have a Lamborghini.

>>50617443
>I actually rather liked that Theban Sorcery/Cruac were a little more diverse back in the day. All the different rituals still had a pretty dark aesthetic to them but overall they did a lot of different things.
I thought being lower-powered but more-diverse than Disciplines was the point of sorcery rituals? You've got Disciplines and template abilities for your increasingly-powerful ways to draw blood from people.

>>50617248
Guess I was wrong. How do you feel about it?

>>50617331
No, Resources 1 means you have a reasonable amount of spending money. Two is apparently "comfortable middle class wage". But what Resources 1 means mechanically is that if you buy a set of camoflague clothing, you'll be poor for a month.

>>50617410
I know. Which is why it shouldn't be written the way it is! It's one of those rules that doesn't bother me enough to shit all over the thread complaining the game is broken, but man, I have no idea who thought it was a good idea.

>>50617461
Actually his argument was more that game balance is a myth because it's all about having fun together.

And in a sense, he's right. But he's talking about one specific kind of game balance. Admittedly it is the kind of game balance most people bitch about when they say "Mages are stronger than vampires".

But like you mention, game balance is important not because this guy can beat that guy, and it's not about everyone having equal combat power (which seemed to be a thing Matt thought in his article). It's about people having equal story focus.

Matt also doesn't seem to realize that two powers doing more or less the same thing, but one being much much better isn't very balanced either, and means people are less likely to take one of those powers.

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>>50617440
Order of DRAC

>>50617563
I strongly considered it, but changed my mind, because the Ordo Dracul's too focused on trying to alter their metaphysical condition; my idea is more to just help Kindred live better as themselves.

>>50617563
>>50617592
Actually, I may have changed my mind again. Ordo Dracul could work better, provided it'd give me the right access to drug alchemy.

Does a scope give anything more than the +2 to aiming in V20?

>>50617644
There is a Ventrue line of alchemists in Ancient bloodlines. They are probably Nazis, but hey, medicine made leaps under them!

>>50617543
For reference, the article he wrote on Chuck Wendig's blog.
http://terribleminds.com/ramble/2010/08/10/game-balance-is-a-myth/

Here's a different article that came up in the same search and actually breaks down how game balance is a myth and also what kind of game balance *is* important for storytelling games.
https://edplaysgames.wordpress.com/2014/10/22/the-myth-of-the-myth-of-play-balance/

>He’s two. He’s got an excuse. We, as adults, should be able to look beyond the immediate details and see the bigger picture. To wit: A friend of mine played a mage in my ongoing Changeling: The Lost game a while back. To listen to some folks, you’d think that would suck for everyone, because mages are “broken” or “unbalanced.” But everyone had a great time, because the Mage player kept in mind that her character was interacting with other characters, not the dots on their sheets, and that the point of the exercise was to experience the story, not one-up everyone.

Matt spends the whole time complaining about white rooms and combat, while failing to understand that most people are concerned with Changeling/Mage crossover not because the Mage could kill all the Changelings, but because he could [potentially] make them all redundant. The other article on the other hand goes over how competitive balance doesn't exist, and the way that roleplaying games are balanced to allow all participants the same opportunity to tell good stories. Matt's not *wrong*, I just get the impression that he's still focusing on the wrong thing.

>I’ll cook it down for you: If everyone’s having a good time, the game is balanced.
Here, too, he ignores that perhaps there are certain situations and mechanics which make it more difficult to have a good time, like one player having the "Add +1 to your roll" power and another having the "succeed instantly at that roll" power. They don't have the same opportunity to tell a good story.

>>50617507
>Guess I was wrong. How do you feel about it?

Probably the thing I'm least proud of, but we learned a lot of lessons from it when we redid Mage. It relies on the soft principle of "rituals must conform to the sort of thing that Discipline is meant for" which could have done with a lot clearer and harder guidelines. As an improvised system I wouldn't use it personally, but as a means of statting learned rituals its fine. All the set ones in Requiem 2e were statted using it.

>>50617461
>Dave is on record saying that game balance is extremely important WITHIN a splat. When it comes to cross-splat balance, he goes with "whichever fits the respective game's themes the best".

Yeah, so within a game, it's something to strive for - Mage's Arcana are set out to a structure, Deviants will be free choice of how powerful you are counterbalanced by Scars and opposition.

I don't give two tugs of a dead dog's cock if mages are more powerful than Prometheans, though. The CofD had ideas about cross-game balance very early on in 1st ed (see 1e Mage Acceleration being a names-stripped copy of Celerity, despite that making no sense) and it was IMO a bad thing. I'm from the philosophy of following through on your fluff and themes and not worrying about crossovers. Fan arguments based on pissing contests about which splat is coolest will happen anyway, and in an actual game there's so many soft means of balancing - it's fine to play a mage in a werewolf game (I have!) and you won't overshadow the other PCs as long as you carefully choose your Path and Order.

It's like the current thing going on where a few people are getting exercised over the anti-magic Merits in the new Covenant book. Many of them don't work on mages as well as they might because of the way the mechanics are designed. One of them (the Carthian one, IIRC, I haven't read it in detail yet) is really rather good. I remain unfussed.

It helps that I'm the Dev for two wildly different splats, oomph-wise.

>>50617741
>Probably the thing I'm least proud of
Oh, it must have been you saying "I wrote it" and I misremembered that as "I like it".

>All the set ones in Requiem 2e were statted using it.
Neat.

I do still feel that things in CofD should work together, though. I know there are plenty of people who like using the actual mechanics of different gamelines as antagonists and such, though I prefer bullshitting them up (a wizard using Celerity when he casts a speed spell, for instance). The "you cut magic like an anime character" merit is pretty cool, but like you said, it doesn't even work if an actual Mage crossover comes up. Though that's less of a ~game balance~ thing and more... mechanical cohesion?

I love the Withstand system, it's a great solution to problems with Resistance, but it's also completely out there and incompatible with anything else.

>>50617543
The type of balance Chrod should ascribe to and I believe has been ascribing to is one of action reaction. Every move having a possible counter

PowerStats and resistances do a lot in that direction than old world ever could or would. It's not about everyone having access to the same powers.

chron blood magic is a good place to see this in action. blood magic is almost always in ritual time and limited. Mages default cast in ritual time but can speed it up at the expense of power and cost where blood magic does not have that option.

One side having to spend more time and effort to counter the other side's moves is a good thing. It lets more "power players"(not pcs but more factions) into the struggle. The buy in for some is higher than the others, but thats ok and it stops one faction from steam rolling the others without any conflict. Because without conflict there is no story. No story is boring, and only gives the power fantasy players any fun.

And with that idea, you can actually start to see a "faction meta" in different cities. Which is awesome, and gives more believable to the idea that not all cities are the same, because it gives an IC reason why this faction works in this city and the others don't.

In a mage heavy city. I can see the possibility of Invitus and Circle actually teaming up. Invitus because they're good at hiding and working in mortal rings(sympathy is a bitch), and the circle for mythical support.

Another example. In a werewolf heavy city, I can see the Lance and the Carths working together. The Lance having a beef with the spirit belief system, and the Carth having a beef with territory. The Carth have like all the combat stuff. and The Lance provide a reason. Circle being too close to the enemy. Invitus being too defensive to make risks.

An of course you can all this flipped around. The only important thing is that there is a story to tell and most stories need a good conflict

Given how broad and powerful the open-ended blood sorcery is as currently applied to "regular" vampires, I expect and fear it will become off-the-charts ludicrous when the elder rules come out in A Thousand Years of Night.

A guess DaveB will just have to lobby hard for Imperial Mysteries 2e.

So, the final staff fighting merit gives an autofire attack. Does this mean that if you attack just one guy you get +2?

>>50615327
>Now compare those to CoC, who already embrace the more predatory and monstrous aspects of vampirism.

Could they pull of a government? Maybe I'm wrong, but I believe that the vampires rule over the humans in Nosgoth/Legacy of Kain.

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>>50617644
>>50617731
yeah mate A lot of the Order is about generally experimenting with the vampiric condition. coils are like the formal application and focused study of what has been learned. Not to say others don't experiment learn and "evolve" I mean blood lines are a thing. but I believe a character like this would get the most support from interested Dragons. I mean there is a merit in SOC called Independent study, which is like convent friendship without needing to be full member

>>50617829

If I were actually running a crossover game, I'd make the Merit raise Withstand instead of its existing mechanics when used against Supernal magic. Mechanics are there to simulate the fiction-layer of the narrative, after all. It's not the vampire's fault whoever wrote his Merit hadn't read Awakening.

You find, when doing a full crossover, lots of little things like that. You constantly have to make judgement calls about what the intent of mechanics were, what they actualy represent, and how they might interact. RAW is a losing proposition when game-mixing.

Having space in upcoming books to delve into these protuding corners will be good. We did Mummy<>Mage in 5000 words in the Dark Eras Companion, and that included an edition swap for one of the games (Rebuke the Vizir, say hello to Clash of Wills).

It's just that with eleven games, we do not have the resources for a similarly-sized mechanical section for every possible crossover. Books like the Demon Stroyteller's Guide and the Pack focus on theme integration because that's the easiest thing to grasp, and all we have room for to boot.

>>50618093
Fair enough. Then all I have to worry about is seeing if I can get to take the 1e Coils instead of the fucking stupid 2e ones.

Can you use Celerity to Aim and shoot in the same turn?

>>50618136
There's a devotion for that

>>50618147
In V20 I mean.

>>50618065
Well secret Pagan cults are a trope. A Circle could act like a Invitus. It's just in the explanation and justification of why they do it. Invitus control through proxies because masquerade. A circle may do like wise because they feel the mortal world is beneath them.

>>50618108

>(Rebuke the Vizir, say hello to Clash of Wills).

Oh, that's going to fun. Mummy and Mage screaming at each other while trying to throw down magic to nullify each other.

...I'm not the only one who always imagines a Clash of Wills happening in game as the parties involved screaming DBZ style all over the place, right?

>>50618108
>Having space in upcoming books to delve into these protuding corners will be good. We did Mummy<>Mage in 5000 words in the Dark Eras Companion, and that included an edition swap for one of the games (Rebuke the Vizir, say hello to Clash of Wills).
Jakki will like that, I'm sure. Is it basically Mortal Remains for Mummy?

>>50618211
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtp7gyU6ShQ

>>50618325
That shit must be so awkward to film

>>50618353
>Animation
>Flim

voice actors in a dark closet told to scream. totally not for a dungeon hentai we promise

>>50618325

Yes, that's what a wizard fight sounds like. Also when a Vampire tries a Mind Whammy on a Supernatural or something.

>>50618353
>>50618381
I haven't dubbed DBZ specifically, but I HAVE dubbed hentai shows to my country's language before. This included shonen shows.

Yes, it's awkward. But then again, the whole thing is pretty awkward in general. Seriously, watch like, an episode of Naruto or something. Imagine having to speak those lines to a guy standing in front of you in a serious tone, without giggling.

That's how it feels.

>>50618525
*anime, not hentai. Holy fucking shit, I've dubbed anime, NOT HENTAI.

Damn that was a crappy Freudian slip.

>>50618537
Eh, if you're dubbing anime I don't see why hentai should be MOE embarrassing

>>50618537
I'm disappointed, honestly

>>50618525
Acting in general is all about having to forget that you're surrounded by equipment and crew and that nothing that happened is real.

>>50618549
>MOE embarrassing
I don't know if that typo was intentional or not now.

>>50618108
>we do not have the resources for a similarly-sized mechanical section for every possible crossover

Hold on..., isn't the upcoming Crossover Chronicles book / game line supposed to deal precisely with this issue?

I imagine that a lot of the word count will need to devoted to Mage as you certainly broke new ground in 2e, particularly with the Withstand mechanics versus the standard resistance rules and only requiring one success for full, set spell effects.

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American Murder Song gives me a great Requiem feel. It's a series of EPs (and associated teasers and a touring show) featuring "murder ballads" by the minds behind REPO: The Genetic Opera and The Devil's Carnival.

It's also really fucking good.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnmAsCr4Rjg&list=PLntpqKZHEmqPmDmW4hzPH6vtkzzfkFRdC

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-T009gPc5c0&list=PLntpqKZHEmqOSCXb1EDh0QuCeNuCNkrPk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDNib483whg&list=PLntpqKZHEmqMP-FK-PNB8POYhmdLhRgqy

Is there a way to throw a 'fan of knives' where you throw a few daggers at multiple targets?

>>50618843
Gee, I wonder why you want this ability......

>>50618686
I started working in Withstand into my bit of mechanics in The Pack; it's not a particularly difficult design element to deal with.

>>50618871
What will be the content of Changing Ways? I searched for information but found nothing.

>>50618909
Dunno, as it's oWoD Apocalypse - not really my wheelhouse.

>>50618952
Oh, sorry.

I have a weird problem, /wodg/. I don't care for werewolf. I don't find the whole wolf pack animal shtick cool the same way I find the idea of playing a mage or vampire cool. The thing is I like what they're supposed to do. I like the spirit world and I like the spirits. What is a good way to run a spirit focused game without having the player characters be forsaken or awakened (my players are to much of lazy fucks to figure out mage)?

>>50618853
My intentions are completely innocent.

>>50619029
I'd say give Werewolf another read, but you could always just run occultism in any other line. Hunter in particular.

>>50619029
Les Mystères

>>50619103
I've run werewolf and it's a good game, but I'd like it more if it was about people with shamanistic powers dealing with spirit world without all the werewolf baggage. The problem is normal people with a couple of supernatural merits seem to be hilariously ill-equipped when dealing with spirits.

>>50619278
It's almost as if Werewolfs where built to fuck spirits....

But really, you're a lil fucked on shadow side adventures if you axe werewolves and mages. You could try having the players be minor-templates like Ridden or a loose form of Claimed. Hunters focused on the spirit might work as well, but you might wanna offer something close to fetish weapons for them, you know, so you can fucking hurt spirits.

>>50619029
I actually don't know them, but aren't Purified kind of spirit splat too? I bet you can even find conversion to 2e on onyxpath forums.

Hurt Locker's first chapter begins with a content warning. I'm surprised the thread hasn't bitched about it yet.

>>50620383

>>50620315
We bitched about it last thread or two before it, along with it talking about ableism and shit.

>>50620483
Nah, I mean this part:
>We’re not going to belabor the point, but we do want to put it out there: This content can be rough. It’s not for every group. If a player doesn’t find these kinds of stories fun or interesting, do not push the issue. If you are not comfortable telling these kinds of stories, this does not mean you are in any way a failure or insufficient. This is all discussion of possibilities, not defaults. This takes some of the material in the Chronicles of Darkness Rulebook, and cranks the volume.
>There’s no shame in turning it back down to a level you’re comfortable with.
Reminds me of the X-Card bitching.

This first chapter is also pretty SJW in general. I just happen to, you know, like it. Although my first thought at Stories About Victimizers was "isn't that most Creeps?"
It's good, though. That sample with the monster snapping the character's knee out of joint was a little eye rolly. I don't think I've ever seen a sample roleplaying scene in any book that didn't feel completely unrealistic about the way groups talk or play. (Plus there's that bit about Texx's ex boyfriend). I like the talk of making violence and it's consequences more meaningful, and I like that they make it explicit that you can and should outright *ask* for Conditions. A lot of people in these threads complain that they can never get enough Beats, but I think it's because they're playing 2e like 1e, when they should play it like Fate in some ways.

This section on how violence can apply to the supernaturals of the Chronicles of Darkness is also pretty good.
>Between humans, violence occurs when there’s means and a will to commit it. Supernatural ability guarantees that there’s always means. For these characters, they need only the will to commit violence, and often their monstrous natures mean they don’t even need that.

>>50620879
>We’re not going to belabor the point, but we do want to put it out there: This content can be rough. It’s not for every group. If a player doesn’t find these kinds of stories fun or interesting, do not push the issue. If you are not comfortable telling these kinds of stories, this does not mean you are in any way a failure or insufficient. This is all discussion of possibilities, not defaults. This takes some of the material in the Chronicles of Darkness Rulebook, and cranks the volume.
>There’s no shame in turning it back down to a level you’re comfortable with.
That's about as inoffensive as that statement can possibly be, honestly (especially since oWoD had a tendency to shame you if you DIDN'T want to revel in Edgy Dark Maturity).

>Between humans, violence occurs when there’s means and a will to commit it. Supernatural ability guarantees that there’s always means. For these characters, they need only the will to commit violence, and often their monstrous natures mean they don’t even need that.
Well that's... true? That last bit is referring to stuff like Frenzy, or Death Rage, or Paradox (or even just "not thinking out the consequences of your spells").

>>50620879
>I like the talk of making violence and it's consequences more meaningful, and I like that they make it explicit that you can and should outright *ask* for Conditions. A lot of people in these threads complain that they can never get enough Beats, but I think it's because they're playing 2e like 1e, when they should play it like Fate in some ways.
Part of it was the bit in the GMC update that stated outright that Exceptional Successes and Dramatic Failures should be the single most frequent source of Conditions.

And considering how rarely Exceptional Successes and Dramatic Failures come up...

They took that part out of the Chronicles of Darkness Rulebook, but generally don't seem to emphasize just how freely GMs should be tossing out Conditions. The more Conditions you throw out, the less your players feel obligated to resolve each and every one to keep a reasonable XP flow.

>>50620949
>That's about as inoffensive as that statement can possibly be, honestly
Yeah, but have you met this thread?

>Well that's... true?
I know. I said I like it for a reason. They go into depth with each of the splats, too. Here's some snippets
>To some schools of thought, power differential in and of itself is a form of violence when expressed. The powerful, by virtue of their power, can rob agency from the powerless. When supernatural ability comes into play, the debate becomes less muddy and abstract. Coercion becomes easy, often to the point of it being unintentional or casual.

>For a reasonable person turned vampire, that’s doubly frightening. She knows she’s supernaturally alluring and that the Beast inside her can demand obeisance. So can she ever really know that interest is legitimate?

>Every single one of the Forsaken comes from human stock, from human families. It’s easy for the universe to dictate that you’re different, but that doesn’t erase a character’s fundamentally human upbringing. So every Uratha must struggle with duty and context. Further, violent action will always shake a werewolf’s Harmony, which can be unsettling and upsetting. For example, killing a human sends an Uratha closer to her spirit side. However, refusing to do so sends the Uratha barreling toward her flesh side. This dilemma can conflict greatly with a werewolf’s personal life.

>Everyone feels the desire for violence at some point. What if the world couldn’t tell you “no”? This is the reality of a mage’s existence. Mages don’t deal with consequence on the same level others do.

They compare Prometheans to John Gardner's Grendel, and Of Mice And Men, but that's too long to quote. Though I'm running out of space, so I might as well make another post.

>>50621079
>One difficult implication with Hurt Locker is that we’ve stated you should never really label characters as “victims” or “victimizers” because it diminishes them and narrows your stories. The Gentry are nigh-objectively victimizers. It’s their role in Changeling stories. Then again, they’re not quite human. They don’t have creative spark. They don’t have the same degree and depth of identity. They buck this rule, because they’re literally characters; they exist of labels and limitations. In many ways, they’re less people and characters, more forces of nature. They’re creatures of pure story; they must follow rules without exception. To cause violence, to abuse, one must make a choice. Are the Gentry truly capable of making choices?
>If you want to explore these issues in Changeling, perhaps, it’s worth looking at the Gentry less as individuals who abuse, who abduct, who traumatize, and instead look at them as metaphors for cultures which enable, foster, hide, and exalt abuse. Those who suffer at their hands can’t trust anyone, because cultural expectations and stories allowed this to happen.
I like this, though I don't usually like the "well can you really call the horrifying nightmare monsters 'evil'" jerk-off bullshit.

They mention Hunter, but that's about the last of it. Nothing on Demon, Mummy, or Beast.
>While not every hunt results in a kill, and not every hunter kills, violence permeates every aspect of the Vigil. Is violence acceptable if it stops violence? At what point does a hunter committing violence become a monster?
>[...] Even when hunters do what they think is right, people get hurt. No matter how much a person says “to make an omelet, you have to break a few eggs,” that pain is still very real. And if you shut it off, if you shut it out, are you any better than the beasts you hunt?

>>50620971
I don't remember such a bit.

I will say there's a lot of things the corebook doesn't emphasize, though. Like how spending Willpower in combat is almost required. The supplements also mentioned 1e books a lot, but there aren't really any concessions made to people who cut their teeth on 1e and are making assumptions going forward in 2e.

For instance: Did you know you can spend more than one point of Willpower a turn now? I didn't. I just assumed it was the same as in 1e. I also just assumed that people could have Defense against firearms in close range. It's Size of the firearm +1, though.

Can Dark Eras Companion come out so I can finally die in peace