/CofD/ &/wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness

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>>50587722
>(Better) Question
Is Gnosis directly proportional to bust size?

>>50587722
>So how's Hurt Locker?
Implying /tg/ does anything beside shitpost gender politics.

>>50587759
Nah large Busts are just a +4 yantara bonus to charm and fertility spells

>>50587722
>So how's Hurt Locker?
Crap.

>Ordo Dracul research paper draft

This is everything I have ever wanted.

>>50587722

Almost finished with Secrets, will get to Hurt Locker soon.

>>50587545
>Tell me why Frances is waifu tier. I assume she's a Hollow, and it's kind of neat that they included that. I

If you have time go read the Mekhet clanbook sometime. Her sire sends her on a quest to meet all the possible weird ass strains of the clan they know, she spends the entire time being too pure for this sinful world. You know, except for the times she frenzies and brutally kills humans and other vampires.

She's just a twee goth wreck of a vampire but kind of badass in her doll like manner, and by the end of the book is self actualized enough to really play at the Ordo's occult science

>>50587859
>>Ordo Dracul research paper draft
Yeah that was nice.

>>50587859
>>Ordo Dracul research paper draft
>This is everything I have ever wanted.
wuzzis?

>>50588093
That image of her dabbing her lips after murdering a dude in the ladies room doesn't seem 2 pure 2 me...

>>50587759
Reminder that Sorceress is a loli

So someone's going to take advantage of Jackie Chan's Special Thanks credit in Hurt Locker and give him an article on the White Wolf Wikia, right?

>>50588412
wut

>>50588279
>That image of her dabbing her lips after murdering a dude in the ladies room doesn't seem 2 pure 2 me...
It wasn't on purpose, she just had a small oopsie and turned into a clockwork monster. But the metaphorical sort of clockwork, not like a Demon as sweet as that would have been.

So, is the download for Hurt Locker up yet?

>>50588093
>You know, except for the times she frenzies and brutally kills humans and other vampires.
Good grief. Some people act like this kind of thing is inevitable for the Kindred. It's not; Frances is just weak.

Do you find yourself playing a certain Clan/Path/Auspice over and over just because of the underlying themes they represent and you like to have different takes on the same theme? I find myself playing Moros too much.

>>50588637
I know I'll never play a Deva/Fairest/Gelatines because social splats are fags.

>>50588540
Dunno, did you put it up yet?

>Fighting Style Stacking
>Aggressive Driving Fighting Style
>Falconry Fighting Style
>DRONE FIGHTING STYLE

David Hill what have you done. What have you done, David Hill.

I'm so ready to unleash an army of drones and birds from my car.

>>50588591
The impression I get is she stupidly lets her vitae run low due to being caught up in other shit

Today's Very Special Message: Remember to fucking eat, kids!

>>50588637
>I find myself playing Moros too much.
No such thing. Talking to ghosts is the best.

>>50588637
Eshamaki. I always seem to play Eshmaki.

So what do you do if you're a hunter that finds out you're dating a changeling?

Asking for a friend.

>>50589356
What does your Hunter hunt? I've played one who hunted werewolves but he was kind of cool with one pack since they cooperated on taking down Pure since the local problem werewolves were mostly Predator Kings. But that was after a fair bit of gaming so he kind of knew a bit more than the norm at early stages of play.

If I have a Shadow Name Merit like Pheonix what spells could that be used as a Yantra?

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>>50589356
Burn and cleanse, my friend.

Burn and cleanse.

So I just read the Infected minor-template and... Well It oculda been better. HAving more than 2 paragraphs to describe them could have helped.

>>50589383
Fire
resurrection
Flight

>>50589382
We're general purpose hunters. We're still somewhat new as a cell, but we've taken down a cult, a few witches, some undead, and a couple of hobgoblins, the mention of which is what made the aforementioned changeling let her secret out.

>>50589415
But she's so nice and changelings never ask for what happened to them.

>>50589456
Doesn't matter. She ain't human, she gets the 12-gauge.

>>50589422
The what?

How do Hunters usually react to Mages?

>>50589474
A minor-templae in hurt locker that.... Are infected with an occult thing? They're basicly just guys that have a disease tht stops other diseases but it makes you want to infect people/places that meet some... unmentioned standard.

David Hill, no one cares about anime to worry about how much Anime is on the Tokyo inspiration list David Hill. I love Anime and I could not care less.

>>50589478
Well, it's weird, because it's (not very subtly, at times) often noted and/or implied that those Hunters who are even aware of the existence magic are really dealing with minor template beings and not with Mages themselves. Add in Quiescence, and it's fairly likely that non-sleepwalker Hunters don't really react to Mages at all.

>>50589466
I can fix her, it's not like she's a vampire or anything.

>>50589530
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bo_n0IPsC7g

>>50589701
Actually yes, the example character wants to spread his bug and even has a merit that makes him DOUBLY want to spread his Occult STD. Also one of the suggested plot hooks is basicly a bug chaser saying he wants your potent strain and if you don't poz his neg hole he'll make your life hell.

Hurt Locker's all right. I'm just glad to finally have explosion rules

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>>50589557
David and Filemena are the cancer that's killed nWoD. McFarland went off the deep end and let them do it.
I'd ask Paradox to save us, but they really don't even need to. Frankly speaking, all the necessary material is already there in whatever past edition of either WoD franchise catches your fancy. The current one is far beyond salvation.

>>50589826

Ok.

>>50589826
I've never even heard of Filemena until today, what are her sins? Also is she another trans woman?

>>50589826
How can Paradox save us when all the information coming out of them shows they themselves are already beyond salvation?

Final verdict from some jerk on the internet:

Secrets: Pretty good. Ordo's the best chapter, Oaths are pretty blah.

Hurt Locker: Whole lotta white noise with some very good bits. Tokyo's an unnecessary appearance, but the ghost train is cool. Explosion rules, fucking finally.

>>50589826

David seems to be a pretty cool guy whose politics you're welcome to disagree with and I don't think Filamena has done anything yet.

>>50590083
Any updated rules for stuff like fatigue?

>>50590584

Filamena's written almost every half-splat in 2e so far, if not every half-splat. She's actually written quite a bit.

>>50590587

I don't remember seeing any new fatigue rules, but I'll double check in the morning.

>>50590679

I'm really tired and mixed Filamena up with Monica, my bad.

If a Space mage wants someone dead, is there anything to stop them from doing it before their target realizes what's going on, short of living in a heavily warded safe house or something? I'm not entirely sure how this works.

Mostly I'm looking at the newest version of Mage, but it's something I've wondered about the other versions too. Space seems like a powerful Sphere that could radically change how the Storyteller has to plan their adventures, in-combat and out. For those more experienced with the game, is it something you have to adapt to, or am I overthinking things?

>>50590711

Monica has also written a lot of stuff for WW and OPP, for what it's worth.

>>50590775

Ah, crap. I'm bad enough with names that I struggle to credit folks right.

Need to sign off and pass out.

>>50590733
I mean if any supernatural wants you dead it's always going to be a pain in the ass to stop him.

>>50590733
Well first off, they need an actual sympathetic connection to you, which is easier said than done.

>>50590083
>Ordo's the best chapter,
As well it should be.

>>50590733
If you mean 2e's Space Sphere:
Sympathetic spells have their potency reduced by the Withstand rating of the connection they use. A non-connection cannot be used and connection strengths can be reduced to non-connection.
There is also a Prime 2 Shielding that gives you a Withstand rating of Potency against all magic (even if it does not normally allow Withstanding).
This is a bitch to cast, but very thematic as an Imbued Item.

No clue if you're talking Ascension.

On the broader issue of power, each gameline operates on different power levels. Some stories are going to be more suitable than others for any given gameline and that is on purpose. It's something you have to adapt to.
Ex: The tension of a desperate quest for medical help is entirely dismantled if set in an urban setting of a developed nation with social healthcare.

People in these threads always complain about the game. Why keep playing a game if you seem to hate it so much? Why bother hanging around a thread for it?

Does anyone here actually LIKE CofD or did all the actual fans get chased off by people who think the mechanics ruined everything and the politics are too much and the whole thing is stillborn?

>>50590969
I think the whole thing is a silmaril

>>50590969

I like the games, but my politics tend to line up with those of the writers more than most folks who flood this place with complaints.

>>50590969

White Wolf fans are the biggest drama hounds of any tabletop fanbase. The shit in these past few threads is honestly child's play compared to real shitstorms.

Like everywhere else, we're just a small section of the fandom at large. Relax, things are gonna be fine. No one's every going to be happy and people are gonna kick dust over tiny stuff. Sun rise, sun set.

>>50591015

I like 'em too. They've got problems and I'm not shy about saying what I think they are, but I still play a crap load of CofD and read quite a bit of WoD.

>>50591004
I'm not nerd enough to get your reference, anon.

>>50591105
This isn't even drama, though, it's just bitching. I'd kill for drama, but Dracula hasn't really been up to anything.
>Like everywhere else, we're just a small section of the fandom at large. Relax, things are gonna be fine. No one's every going to be happy and people are gonna kick dust over tiny stuff. Sun rise, sun set.
Yeah, but this is where I talk about the games. Everywhere else has a shitty interface and forum baggage.

>>50588637
Thersus is the best.

So is Mekhet, though I have a thing for shapeshifting (best power always) so sometimes Gangrel gets me.

>>50591142

Bitching is a common past time of the drama hound, just saying. This stuff always passes, you just learn to tune it out and respond to the stuff you like, or only reply once to the bitching if you really gotta.

>>50591196
>This stuff always passes
No it doesn't, this is how these threads always are.

>>50589880
Filamena Young is David Hill's waifu and constant collaborator. For that reason, it's a bit difficult to pick out which is responsible for which particular piece of taint they inject into the game, but it's well known she shares the same dogmatic views and inability to separate them from her work. What I do know about her is that she felt the need to waste wordcount on rules for demon pregnancy. Because she thought it was "important."

You also see works she contributes to tend to have a fairly consistent metaphor. I'm not quite sure why.
In B&S:
>He could be wearing tattered clothes, with open wounds and his face caked in shit but people still think he’s cooler than them, and they want to be around him.
From the Beast Seeming preview for Changeling 2e (which she is confirmed to have written):
>She bites through flesh, claws through soil, smears herself with shit and blood to escape the Huntsman on her heels.
Also a thing that shows up in Shadowrun's War! supplement which she contributed to along with Hill. Granted, for all I know, it's Hill that's the one into scat. Maybe they take dunking yourself in feces as a code for being especially gritty and edgy. But that's just the first sort of thing that comes to mind - her reputation is tied to Hill's, after all.

>>50590584
David shat on Changeling's very premise, is an awful preening ideologue, and is an all around poor writer who consistently damages the gamelines he contributes to. He is responsible for the absolute travesty that was Shadowrun's War!, generally considered one of the worst books ever penned for that gameline. Even so, I wouldn't give a shit about what they believed if they didn't seem completely incapable of inserting their values into everything they worked on in the most pretentiously preachy way imaginable, destroying the narrative value and ambiance of the content they produce and generally writing like 14 year old children.
(cont)

>>50591224
Beyond David's fluff writing being exceedingly poor and consistently charged with his personal political viewpoints, his mechanical contributions are equally suspect and often amount to some of the worst in their particular gamelines. People have already found problems with Hurt Locker. They've tended to crop up in everything he works on. I'd be surprised he was still getting work in the industry if he wasn't grounded in OPP, where he's among friends.

>>50591224
Oh she's the one that did the chapter on m-preg in Werewolf 2e?

Wonder why she has a different last name than Hill :^)

Though real talk I do care about the demon pregnancy thing, but that's because I like further explinations on their quantum state.

>>50591207

It goes in cycles. We get some normal discussion in and then someone's gotta vent and that leads to a big old thing and then it dies down and we discuss things normally again. People really get into these games and the personalities behind the games, so people are quick to throw down with their feelings after a book's release. It'll take about a day or two for people to pick their bones.

>>50591224

But the Demon pregnancy thing was actually pretty cool.

>>50591264
I never read Forsaken 2e, so I can't rightfully say.

But did you rrreeallly need demon pregnancy, completely useless rules which no one is ever going to actually use, to further explore their quantum state?

>>50591310
Everything you say is in mindless defense of the devs. Believe what you want.

>>50589356
What do the Hunters know about Changelings? There seems to be this assumption in all WoD games that all characters know everything about all the other splats. This is not true. It really depends on what the Hunters' view on Changelings is, which is going to depend on what they know.

If it's an "if it isn't human, it dies!" group, find another. You're playing with 40kiddies or some more generic version of edgelords.

>>50591224
>David shat on Changeling's very premise
Grow the fuck up.

>>50591337
Fuck nah nigga, I don't need rules for pregnancy. Full stop. Almost zero reason for it to be in a game that isn't for porn.

>>50591262
>People have already found problems with Hurt Locker.
Such as?
He's also been getting work outside OPP.

How do you still buy and play CofD books if you're this whiny about the writers?

>>50591337

It's some optional rules in a seperate stretch goal book, it's not like it was robbing space from the Storyteller's Guide. It's a weird thing to harp on in the greater scheme of things.

>>50591337

It's almost like I like these games or something.

>>50591360

Not even in a book about having children?

>>50591367

I keep telling you, this is just how White Wolf fans are. They're either ready to follow the company into hell, or they're ready to throw the company into hell. Sometimes both during the same week.

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>>50591360
>>50591337
You act like pregnant women don't exist.
Nevermind that the book in question was ABOUT THE CHILDREN OF DEMONS.
That's sort of important information. It's also interesting.

How do you pick the one instance of M-preg cropping up that people actually like and choose to shit on that?

>>50591337
Everything you say is mindless criticism of the devs.
I have no idea why people skip the actual criticism of the games and instead just whine about politics and bullshit.

>>50591430
I'm not ready to follow them into hell. I have plenty of criticisms about the games. But not this weird stupid blooblooing about their politics or anime.

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Guys.

What the fuck is a The Room reference dong in Promethean?

>>50591430

I'd be more okay with the complaints if they were more "these rules are busted" and less "I hate that there are women in the artwork."

>>50591592
You do know that's a common phrase, right?

That said, Tommy Weisseau is clearly a Promethean. Probably a Wretched.

>>50591353
Some of us actually have our shit together and can afford to spend time bitching on 4chan about how the current lead dev of the gameline they used to really enjoy in high school/college not only does not seem to comprehend the meaning of that game, but seeks to completely warp it through the lens of his dumbfuck tumblr mentality.

>>50591367
>buy ChroD books
Are you new around here?

And mostly I don't play ChroD itself because it's largely all been garbage that I've read originally out of some hope they would improve which slowly twisted into morbid fascination with how badly they'll shit their own bed next. I did play Vampire by way of B&S for a long span of time last year, but even though I was originally very optimistic for them, I gradually found the GMC's new rules (such as for aspirations, beats, etc.) to be an extremely clumsy attempt to encourage player action which ultimately merely incentivizes nonsensical play - at times even amidst skillful players - in pursuit of that next beat.

I have never been more disappointed, jaded, and fed up with White Wolf's material than I am now. And judging by McFarland ditching the forums after the wave of criticism following Promethean 2e, I'm not alone.

>>50591657
>I have never been more disappointed, jaded, and fed up with White Wolf's material than I am now
So you stick around to pester the rest of us who aren't whiny little shits that unironically complain about the "tumblr mentality"?

>>50591657

Is there no better use for your time than hanging out in the discussion thread for a constellation of games you seem to loathe?

Like, I don't deliberately go put myself into conservative spaces and then shout about how much I hate them, nor do I find myself lingering in, say, Fallout generals, because I hate those games. I can't imagine dedicating any amount of time to surrounding yourself with works and fans of those works that you seem to disagree with on every level.

>>50591689
Yet you go with a known identity into 4chan, knowing fully that your opinion will be met with hatred by default because of it.

>>50591776

I wear a trip because the threads used to regularly devolve into accusing each other of me and I'd sooner folks filter my ass than let that shit happen again.

>>50591816
At least you're rational about it. Unlike some posters. That think we should have to 'deal with them whether we like it or not'

>>50589356
The answer to should I burn it? and Does the thing harm humans? Are the same

>>50591224

That's really sad. You're experiencing apophenia. She wrote one of those lines. She didn't write the other. And in the other book you referenced without actually quoting, she wrote only a very small handful of words.

If you think I ruined Shadowrun's War!, I must have done a heck of a job, since I wrote maybe 3% of the final words in the book.

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>>50591513
So, okay, is anything about mpreg supposed to enhance the cogency of your point somehow?

>>50591681
Why're you feeling pestered?

>>50591689
Forgive the blogpost faggotry, but if you want me to explain myself further, the nWoD is something I continue to like - in its 1e incarnation. It and its predecessor are gamelines I spent a lot of time with. And it's been depressing to see nWoD slowly but surely go down the drain in the hands of people who don't seem to get it anymore (McFarland) or simply never did (Hill).
WoD always had its warts. It never really had a completely perfect edition. But there were times of true improvement. They got out of their silly misguided ruts of shit like
>the Rom vampire clan was a group of con artists and theives;
>the Middle Eastern vampire clan was a group of assassins;
>the Irish werewolf tribe was a bunch of violent drunks;
>the Native American werewolf tribes were a noble savage pastiche;
>the Nordic werewolf tribe was heavily involved with neo-nazi bullshit;
>the womyn's lib werewolf tribe was a bunch of castrating man-haters;
>Gypsy happened.
Most born of a mentality of inclusion, all utterly misguided caricatures. But WW overcame that. Even if the Revised edition played it so safe that it was less flavorful in places than 2e at its best, it managed to find some nuance in moderation. nWoD was supposed to be the culmination of what they'd learned, and while I started out a little lukewarm on it, by the time Promethean was released, I was coming around. Changeling was also excellent. nWoD really established itself. And now it feels like that's all been lost.
Perhaps it's wholly out of nostalgia on my part, but OPP started great with the WoD20 gamelines. V20 and W20 were incredibly faithful and paid good attention to where Revised tripped while retaining its good points (often via copypaste, granted). I was genuinely excited for GMC.
But the writing has declined.
The mechanics have declined.
ChroD is hopeless.

>>50591833
I don't give in to the demands of terrorists.

>>50591937
Plus, you know, it was already ruined by being Shadowrun.

>>50591968

I figured that was a given.

>>50591960
>So, okay, is anything about mpreg supposed to enhance the cogency of your point somehow?
This might surprise you, but sometimes weird shit like that is actually related to the game.

>Forgive the blogpost faggotry, but if you want me to explain myself further, the nWoD is something I continue to like - in its 1e incarnation. It and its predecessor are gamelines I spent a lot of time with. And it's been depressing to see nWoD slowly but surely go down the drain in the hands of people who don't seem to get it anymore (McFarland) or simply never did (Hill).
Oh come off it. 1e had a shitload of horrible bullshit that you're going to just ignore because "they changed it now it sucks". The writing didn't decline, and neither did the mechanics. You're just set in a weird nostalgia filter. Do I need to start pulling shit from 1e? I already showed you that MPreg existed there.

>Why're you feeling pestered?
Because you come into the thread and do nothing but bitch about how bad the game is.
You add nothing. I'm sure someone will call me a shill, but I actually enjoy things, and it pisses me off to hear people bitch and moan without actually having anything meaningful to say. You complain about shit that either existed in 1e or is made so that people who aren't like you get to feel like the game is intended for them as well. Instead of finding things to like even if you don't like the whole thing, you just whine and complain and try to make everyone else as miserable as you are.

You are the worst kind of fan.

>>50591960
This is what oWoD fans sounded like in 2004.

>>50592020
Jump off a cliff, Aspel.

>>50591960
>warts
and the reason they don't lance the boils? is because you secretly love the caricatures and don't actually give a shit about the people they represent

>>50592036
he is right you know.......

>>50592020
>The writing didn't decline, and neither did the mechanics.
Not that guy. Mage 2e finally made me give up on OPP except for Vampire. Rose seems to have her shit together.

I loved the GMC update. Pretty much everything it changed was an improvement. Vampire 2e was great, too. But it was missing some rules, referenced a couple that didn't exist. It wasn't ideal, but it was workable. And when CofD core came out, most of the missing rules were now in place.

But every book since has included more and more missing rules and omissions. Now with Mage 2e, we have books that contradict themselves and other lines directly because the author doesn't give a shit about fitting in with the rest of the rule system and has said as much.

I'm not even talking about fluff, just mechanics. And I don't give a shit about the "Tumblr" stuff. It doesn't bother me. CofD has been a steady decline in the mechanics department.

>>50592231
Aspel is never right. it must be a clear identification. Those happen Anon

>>50592020
>I hate things that some people like but are not inclusive to X group of people!
>I love things that some people don't like but are inclusive to X group of people!
Nice doublethink

>>50592020
>sometimes weird shit like that is actually related to the game
It's honestly marginally easier to take seriously as a freaky ritual thing.
Still pretty needless.

>1e had a shitload of horrible bullshit that you're going to just ignore because "they changed it now it sucks".
I was very open to GMC and B&S until it just didn't work anymore and played like an unfun mess. It tries to conform the narrative itself too much to the mechanics rather than having the mechanics wholly devoted to serving the narrative. Even tearing out out the xp system, it became a problem when, say, the Nosferatu were all over the place with what abilities you need for rolls and what attributes you need to even be remotely effective, ending up more trouble than it was worth when the system was supposed to have achieved balance. And tearing out all the things connected to beats doesn't really work for all the gamelines when other aspects of the game itself are founded on those clunky systems.

>The writing didn't decline
>It’s freaky, it’s beautiful, and it’s a powerful show of how oppressive religions don’t always get the last laugh. Their cult is amazing. It prohibits violent death of any mortals, it focuses on bolstering the poor neighborhoods, and it’s basically the best thing to come out of Los Angeles. Folk Catholicism for the motherfucking win. This cult is more Carthian than LA’s entire piss poor Movement.
>the circle is prohibiting violent deaths
>The CIRCLE OF THE CRONE is against violent deaths
alrighty

(cont)

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>>50592020
>>50592406
>Erica’s one of our cross-covenant friends; she’s part Movement, part Circle of the Crone. All awesome. Read her shit. It’s from her blog, so never mind references to comments. She also teaches Devotions to anyone that wants to learn. Hit her up. Give her cash. She loves cash. Her ad’s somewhere in this zine. Go digging.
Great Vampire writing here. Really makes me feel like I'm in a World of Darkness.
How about Dubai. Dubai allows diablerie. It is a permitted thing. That's the only thing worth mentioning. Also it is anti girl-on-girl sex. That's important information.
33 pages into SotC we get a Beast reference! Oh boy.
Oh, did you know that you can deprogram a viniculum like traditional brainwashing? Amazing what you learn.
this book took 3 years to write

>Do I need to start pulling shit from 1e?
I'm sure you can dredge something up. No edition is perfect, like I said. There was chaff to ignore. I just feel the mentality and focus of ChroD has taken a turn for the worse in general.

>Because you come into the thread and do nothing but bitch about how bad the game is.
Actually, I did participate in some positive discourse last thread.

>pisses me off to hear people bitch and moan
It pisses you off that I am vocally disappointed and dislike what you like. That's fine.

>Instead of finding things to like even if you don't like the whole thing
That used to be me. But there's nothing worth finding anymore.

>to make everyone else as miserable as you are
Why, thank you for sharing my pain, actually.

>You are the worst kind of fan.
mfw you can never escape me, either.
I will always be here, whispering in the back of every potential neophyte's ear: "ChroD used to be good when it was called nWoD, but now David Hill is writing it, so you best download it for free before you give those hacks at OPP even a whiff of your money for a ChroD product."

>>50592034
yeah, it is, isn't it

>>50592214
Okay, I can get on board with the Giovanni. Most of the rest of those, though, could get pretty fuckin' gonzo when left unchecked.

>>50592259
>CofD has been a steady decline in the mechanics department.
I love it. I was legitimately worried that I'd be one of those grognards I hate, but it turns out that even where I think 2e dropped the ball, I still find it a major improvement from 1e.

>>50592390
What?

>>50592406
>Still pretty needless.
To you. But for a lot of people? Knowing how demon pregnancies work in the book about the children of Demons is pretty interesting.

>it became a problem when, say, the Nosferatu were all over the place with what abilities you need for rolls and what attributes you need to even be remotely effective, ending up more trouble than it was worth when the system was supposed to have achieved balance.
I don't even know what this is supposed to mean. I can't parse what you're trying to say.

Also, The Crone has had plenty of stuff about not killing to kill. There's even a fancy priestess rank for people who've never killed anyone.

>>50592439
You know what, I'm going to turn this around: What writing from 1e do you feel is so much better?
Do I need to start quoting from Changing Breeds? Or what about how Mage's fiction has sick wheelies and motorcycle flips?

>It pisses you off that I am vocally disappointed and dislike what you like. That's fine.
It also pisses me off that you get to whine and bitch, but if I ever break the circlejerk people are all over me like flies on shit. It's not even that you're disappointed, though. It's that you're just whining and shitposting.

>ChroD used to be good when it was called nWoD, but now David Hill is writing it
You do know he wrote for 1e as well, right?

>>50592476
I can't really speak for that anon, but I think what he was saying isn't that they're gonzo, it's that as presented in the books, they're horribly offensive caricatures.

>>50592520
>Crone has had plenty of stuff about not killing to kill.
Not to kill for the sake of killing is not the same as not killing at all and being human(ity) friendly. Cronies are not human friendly. The Crone certainly isn't human friendly. Yeah, yeah, there might be a few exceptions here and there, but those are likely to be neonate's, still wet behind the ears.

>>50592551
The Crone in 1e, maybe. This is not 1e.
Isn't one of the major themes of 2e that the Covenants are not the same all across the world?

>>50592520
No one is going to deny that Changing Breeds is godawful. That was more of an isolated incident that was never mentioned again and could safely an entirely be ignored. Secrets of the Covenants is our first Vampire supplement in how long, now?

>>50592579
Reread BS section on Cronies. Specifically
>You want to join because...
And
>The big picture...
Central theme in these passages is: Cronies accept that they are the monsters, that vampires are!

Suck it, fucking hippie.

>>50592603
It wasn't isolated, though.

>>50592764
There is nothing else quite like that particular rendition of the tribble-covered cock wielded by horned god anywhere else in the nWoD.

You know, did that guy who wanted the Mage 2nd ed with errata ever get that download? I just realized I haven't seen that anon for a few threads.

>>50592830
Trolled to death

>>50592830
Never mind, I'm retarded. It's in the OP.

>>50592841
That was my first thought.
.

>>50592830

I'm still here (although I was definitely not the only Anon who was requesting the updated PDF), and I certainly engage in discussions other than requesting the Mage errata.

However, while we're discussing PDF's, if anyone is willing to share Secrets of the Covenants or Hurt Locker, it would be most appreciated.

>>50592945
Have you tried the 7ch begging thead?

>>50592948

I already found the updated Mage PDF. It's now available on the web if look hard enough.

>>50592259
Interesting, can you give me some examples of this? Have they errata'd any of it that has cropped up?

Camarilla > Invictus
Carthian > Anarchs
Circle > Sabbat

Prove me wrong.
...
Less baitish, this is my first impression from 2.edition core book (On. Is it so largely true or are there any major differences?

>>50589383
Good omens: Luck and hope

>>50593416
There is apparently a massive Mage FAQ coming out eventually, but the errata pass didn't cover them.

I mostly played Thyrsus, so off the top of my head I mostly recall spirit stuff. Like how Annihilate Spirit uses different Clash of Wills rules to the Werewolf book, and the other Spirit spells don't even mention how to Clash of Wills with Spirits at all. So it's hard to tell if Annihilate Spirit's rules are intended for all Spirit Clashes in the book or just the one spell.

Really, all the ephemeral shielding spells have this issue. Ephemera cannot touch you without a Clash of Wills, but given that standard attacks don't use a Discipline-equivalent and Power-stat equivalent, you can't use normal Clash of Wills rules to handle it.

One of several examples, but I've had like three hours of sleep and this topic sets off those two fanboys and I had enough of that with the Changeling talk last couple threads.

>>50593457
They fullfill similar default roles, sure. But it's not a 1:1 relation, not even close.

There once was an organization called the Camarilla, back in Rome. The (neo-)feudal Invictus (usually in alliance with the Sanctified) see themselves as the inheritors of that Covenant's IP.

Carthians can be a whole host of other things, apart from anarcho-communists. They can be fascists. They can be true libertarians. They can be hippies. Usually, they are the under dogs. But there are quite a few domains where they hold power and where, consequently, it can be argued they take upon them the role of VtM's Camarilla.

Circle of the Crone are the Sabbat is sofar as that they accept the fact that they are vampiric monsters. (But the same goes for the Sanctified) Cruac caps their Humanity, but they do not necessarily strive actively to shed it. As with tthe Carthians, Cronie covens come in many forms and variations.

>>50591224
>David shat on Changeling's very premise
What was the premise and how did he misunderstand it?

>>50588724
You know, Daeva are the warrior splat, equivalent to Rahu and Obrimos.
The socials are Ventrue.

>>50591264
>Oh she's the one that did the chapter on m-preg in Werewolf 2e?
It's a sidebar, not a chapter. There is a BIT of a difference.

>>50593655
>The rapists are the warriors

Lovely.

>>50593655
>Obrimos are the warrior caste

kek

>>50591653
>You do know that's a common phrase, right?
Nah it's clearly a reference, notice pronoun.

>>50591681
Imo it's actually you who uncritically adore everything onyx path releases who is minority.

>>50591689
You can't seem to understand that one doesn't have to like everything about game to find it enjoyable.

>>50591960
>The mechanics have declined.
Oh I wouldn't say that. Some mechanics definitely improved. Gone is derangement based morality system, multiple attacks in a turn are banned, Mage spells are definitely improvement too with the removal of artificial speed bumps, oh and lets not forget about ditching exponential character progression.

>>50593497
Eh that's pretty minor stuff imo. VtR:BS had problems too which were only fixed with it becoming VtR 2e and some stuff was changed in FAQ. And as for clash of wills, VtR strix seem to use only Shadow Potency, which is rather unsystematic too. I think that in Demon ephemeral entities didn't have clash of wills rules either.

>>50593655
Very much so. They fuck everybody up, bigly. And once the police shows up, they just wink and walk away unscathed. They are the Lost Boys, they are Blade, they are the things from 30 days of night

I mean they can be played as a the Face and (unfortunately) many, many people seem to do so (taking Striking Looks and the whole now-I-can-finally-be-seductive fantasy, cause so fugly irl).

>>50593457
You can't prove opinions dipshit.

>>50593715
They are the Path of the Mighty. The ones laying down fire and destruction, the ones cleansing the battlefield with divine light.
But most importantly, those with the mindset of warriors tend toward Obrimos.

>>50593655
>>50593727
If someone is warrior splat it's Gangrel. And I'm not sure that any Path in Mage is especially warriorish. At low arcana ratings there may be some differences but 4 maybe even 3 dots and more there isn't much difference.

>>50593771
>Gangrrel warrior splat
Not in 2e, anymore. Purely from a mechanics point of view. What made them the obvious combat choice in 1e was their agg claws. They don't have those anymore (unless you take a 1 dot merit with a Protean 4 prereq.).

Daeva have Vigor AND Celerity. Meaning that they'll make short work of most Gangrel.

I'd argue that Nossies and Shadows even stand a better chance agains the Daeva than does the average Gangrel.

>>50593771
No. Gangrel is Survivor. Just like the Thyrsus, or Beast, or Tammuz.

>>50593797
I thought Nosferatu were the survivors. Gangrel are the tough fighters, Daeva the "soft" dexterous fighters and "soft" faces, Ventrue the "hard" faces and spymasters, and Mekhet the rogues.

>>50593847
All of them could be warriors of sorts:

Daeva are heroic warriors (Schwarzenegger's Conan and Gibson's William Wallace)

Gangrel are survivor warriors (DiCaprio's Revenant and, say, some Tarzan incarnation)

Mekhet are sneaky warriors (your hassasins and ninja's, basically)

Nosferatu are monsterous warriors (300's Immortals perhaps or GOT's the Mountain)

Ventrue are army officers, they command.

In the end, of these archetypes, I'd say the Daeva is the truest warrior.

>>50593847
My Vampire split-up is this:
Clan Primary Theme/Secondary Theme
Daeva Warrior/Social
Gangrel Survivor/-
Mekhet Sneak/Mystic
Nosferatu Warrior/Sneak
Ventrue Social/Survivor

The Gangrel are all about being resilient, adaptive, and controlling their own environment.

While I'm at it, let's have Mage and Werewolf too.

Mage (All Mages are also Mystic)

Acanthus Sneak
Mastigos Social/Sneak
Moros Survivor
Obrimos Warrior
Thyrsus Survivor

Werewolf (All Werewolves are also Warrior)

Rahu Warrior (Yes, Warrior/Warrior. Add Blood Talon and it's Warrior/Warrior/Warrior)
Cahalith Social/Mystic
Elodoth Social
Ithaeur Mystic
Irraka Sneak

>>50591657
>And judging by McFarland ditching the forums after the wave of criticism following Promethean
What was that about? I recall controversy about Alchemists and non-standard pronouns. Was there anything else?

>>50593788
In 2e Animalism, Celerity, Obfuscate, Resilience, or Vigor being clan or out-of-clan doesn't really matter much anymore without the exponential experience cost. Only disciplines which matter are the exclusive ones. Generally Daeva are supposed to be the seductive ones and Gangrels psychos who frenzy at drop of the hat. I guess Nossies could be said to be warriorish too being only ones with strength being their favoured attribute. And although agg claws have now higher prerequisites, it's still relevant given how strong they are + freshly embraced inexperienced kindred won't be that good warriors anyway.

>>50593921
>Daeva Warrior/Social
If at all, it's other way around. Even their bane forces them to be social.
>Acanthus Sneak
Spells being generally non obvious doesn't make them sneaky. They have no sneaking abilities whatsoever. Given how overpowered they are, they can easily be warriors or survivors.
>Mastigos Social/Sneak
ok
>Moros Survivor
they don't strike me too survivorish
>Obrimos Warrior
ok
>Thyrsus Survivor
ok
That said Moros, Obrimos and Thyrsus all strike me as considerably more Mystic than other two.

>>50594127
Even taking the exclusivity of clan signature disciplines into account, I'd still argue that Gangrel are more geared towards survivor tropes and Daeva more towards warrior tropes. Hell Majesty lets you rouse people to fight for your cause. You can instigate a riot. A Gangrel might be fierce, when driven into a corner, but it's still just one individual. Remember, this system favors strategies that outnumber opponents.

>freshly embraced inexperienced kindred won't be that good warriors anyway.
Unless, you know, they were soldiers or law-enforcement officers or street thugs or something similar when they were alive... And in the case of neonates, Daeva definitely trump Gangrel combat wise.

>Even their bane forces them to be social.
Or it forces them to murder-hobo's. Guess, what...

>>50594160
>Hell Majesty lets you rouse people to fight for your cause. You can instigate a riot. A Gangrel might be fierce, when driven into a corner, but it's still just one individual. Remember, this system favors strategies that outnumber opponents.
I agree with this, but would say that being warrior is exactly about being individual who fights. Commander who will send against you 10 of his soldiers will be undoubtedly more efficient but I wouldn't call him warrior.

>Unless, you know, they were soldiers or law-enforcement officers or street thugs or something similar when they were alive... And in the case of neonates, Daeva definitely trump Gangrel combat wise.
According to books stereotypical starting Daeva won't be as combat capable as neonate Gangrel, because low levels of disciplines aren't that noticeable and it's Gangrels whose stereotype is having primary physical skills and attributes.

>trying to pin stereotypes.
You can make a bad ass Knight as a ventrue just the same you can make a street smart manipulating gangrel face.

>>50594160
>Law enforcment officers
>Warriors
Most cops I talk to say that the police have the worst standards when it comes to marksmanship and physical standards.

>>50594160
Street thugs? Can barely shoot straight, know nothing about weapons maintenance and just swing for the fences with their chin in the air. I would heem em stiff m8

>>50594303
Even if it's about the individual, Daeva starting vamps trump Gangrel starting vamps. I am talking about potential builts.

I am not talking about the book's stereotypes, which I think gloss over the Daeva's potential for being warriors in favour of them being these sexualized things. I think here the current generation of devs has a blind-spot (specially Rose, since this Clan seems to be her favourite).

>>50594329
Oh, look: it's an amerifag.

>>50594358
>missing the point

>>50594364
>Oh, look: it's an amerifag.
Australian actually with american friends, one of which used to be in a SWAT team so he knows what he's talking about. Plus you did not specify which countries police force and because WOD is mostly set in America excuse me for the assumption.

>>50593715
>>50593655

>Obrimos are the warrior splat

WFT. Obrimos are no more the "warrior spat" than any other Path.

While a proficiency with Forces can certainly be showy, it's also one of the best Arcana for stealth and investigative pursuits (recall that Forces is what generally controls computers and electronics).

>>50594383
doesn't invalidate the point that a character sheet with decent combat stats can be amplified with a starting vamp template. if you want to go for maximum combat utility, I'd say pick Daeva over Gangrel (at least if you're building a neonate).

>>50594399
True, but check the personalities that trend towards Obrimos and you'll find more people fitting the warrior stereotype there.

>>50594364
But that's a good point, though. Outside of federal police forces, most cops just spend the minimum required hours on the range every year and don't touch their guns outside of that. An avid sport shooter is going to be a better shot than some random local cop.

>>50594418
Honestly though every vamp can be used in any way you want. The only thing different between the vampires are the Disciplines anyway. And I hate min maxing so I dont even care. I am not even the guy you were originally arguing with

>>50594442
Disciplines, Bloodlines and Clan Banes.

>>50594431
Fine, than embrace the average big-game hunter, for all I care.

>>50594442
I know, I am aware, and I agree. They are broad archetypes, every character concept may fit under each one of the five Clans. But the point being discussed was, which one conforms more to the warrior archetype: clan Daeva or clan Gangrel. I'd say Daeva, looking at their Discipline spread and their clan bane.

>>50594431
>An avid sport shooter is going to be a better shot than some random local cop.
This was going to be an idea I had for a Maiden Sisterhood Hunter. A shooter that was on the school shooting team. Yes look it up, colleges and universities have shooting clubs.

>>50594497
That's a pretty cool concept, though biathlon is the only shooting sport I acknowledge.

>>50594550
Well her Daddy was a veteran and always wanted a son. Bought her a pink .22 rifle for her 10th birthday.

>>50593720
>VtR:BS had problems too
Which was my whole point, yes. Though changing to VtR only had a couple typo fixes. It still needed a FAQ and CofD Core to be "fixed." Even then there are some major rules ambiguities that cause dozen-page threads every time they come up on OPP's VtR forum. Mage is much worse.

>>50594588
Of course Mage is worse. Its rules always seemed made to attract power gamers and rules lower.

>>50594497
a better shot maybe, but chances are they're not going to be as prepared for the reality of a "firefight". The stress of actually being shot 'back' at.

>>50594646
Dynamic shooting courses are a better representation of real combat then whatever the police are doing. Police will fold under pressure just like anyone else.

Only partially related question.

Will the full storypath rules be in Scion/Trinity you think, or will they release a separate book?

If I want to homebrew using it, I feel like I need a tiny bit more than their preview, just in case.

>>50592020
>Because you come into the thread and do nothing but bitch about how bad the game is.
>You add nothing. I'm sure someone will call me a shill, but I actually enjoy things, and it pisses me off to hear people bitch and moan without actually having anything meaningful to say.

Then why arent you on OPP forums then? That is a place where everyone gets lobotomized and dissenting opinions are crushed

>>50594653
The difference is that officers(at least those in areas where firefights are likely to break out) actually experience firefights first hand.

>>50592551
How often do I need to repeat myself? The Circle is an extremely heterodox organization. Sure, it doesn't have any rules from on high about being human-friendly, but individual cults can do whatever they like if they fall into the "creation is power" and "tribulation brings enlightenment" umbrella. And are pagan. They don't even all use Cruac (though the ones that don't are rare).

>>50594793
Yes, they are a varied Covenant, but that doesn't mean there isn't a common denominator. The factions within the Circle are thematically close enough to all be counted as members of the Covenant, otherwise, why call it one Covenant. If you actually READ the BS description of the Covenant, then the main-theme unifying these vamps is that they accept their being man-hunting monsters. Which implies that Circle members who actively avoid killing humans are rare exceptions.

I am not saying you're having badwrongfun if you play a Cronie who loathes to take human lives, I'm just saying you're playing against type as described in the fucking core book.

>>50594793
also: creation if power. Sure. But Crone creation is done through destruction, mate.

>>50594869
B&S descriptions of covenants are, well, BS. The Invictus one is the only one that's even passable, but the Circle one is easily the worst; it basically turns them into a less interesting version of Belial's Brood. I'm going by the 1e description and covenant book that wasn't written by a bunch of fucking hacks.

And yes, Acolytes who never kill humans are rare; perpetual Maidens/Fools (depending on gender). However, those who reach high Status while remaining in the same role earn a great deal of respect for their self-restraint; the Circle might not have specific laws against killing humans, but they don't extol it either. Everyone has their own way of synchronizing with their nature; it's not like some Sabbat Paths of Enlightenment where exhibiting compassion is a level 1 sin.

>>50594883
Creation is creation. An Acolyte who spends all their time wrecking shit is doing it wrong and should probably be Forsworn (and more likely than not will become so). Destruction is frequently necessary, but creation is what's divine.

>return to thread after last night's debacle to see how people are liking Hurt Locker and if there's any particularly interesting combinations.
>Aspel ruins another thread
welp, back to not coming to these threads.

>>50588795
The Falconry style is great, it's everything I could have asked for.
I'm a bit confused about how Apportation and Sojourner work together, though. Apportation says it deals damage to living beings based on the meters moved, but Sojourner allows you to move things miles - does this mean if you teleport someone with sojourner it is an instant kill?

>>50594883
Is gardening, or arts and crafts creation or destruction? Because Acolytes are into those...

>>50594869
They are about accepting their nature as monsters, yes. But mindlessly slaughtering humans is denying their nature as parasites just as much as refusing to kill is. It risks getting hunted down and killed and it risks becoming a draugr, which nobody wants. They aren't Belial's Brood. The goal isn't to hit Humanity 0 as fast as possible.

>>50594971
>Is gardening
Killing the weeds to help the roses grow.
Honestly the Crone remind me of this a little bit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tt1W0F0yObg

>>50594932
Oh. I didn't know we were edition warring.

>>50594971
Gardening involves a cycle of life and death, yes. You'll have to fertilize that ground with shit or ashes.

Arts and crafts, could. But no not necessarily I guess.

>>50594985
I agree.

>>50594971
Arts and crafts use resources won by destroying life: paint pigments, brushes, wood, etc.

>>50592988
Share with the rest of us, then

>>50591653
You know I could actually believe the idea.

>>50595021
I'm not trying to edition war, but I think it's contrary to the spirit of the game that all of the information in the Circle of the Crone's own book would have been thrown out and shouldn't be brought up again.

>>50595067
If we're talking about in-universe, Denny is definitely a Promethean (probably a Galateid). His Disquiet seems to be manifesting in all the relationship problems on the show, and he has the exactly correct... "off" understanding of social cues and how people work that Prometheans so frequently display. He also seems to be begging Johnny to resurrect himself at the end.

>>50593720
>Imo it's actually you who uncritically adore everything onyx path releases who is minority.
I am critical, though. I'm just not bitching over shit like "wah, tumblr" or complaining that the writing is *so* much worse when it's not.
>VtR:BS had problems too which were only fixed with it becoming VtR 2e
They changed nothing but the name...

>>50594772
>Implying dissenting opinions aren't crushed on 4chan
Drinkin' that Anon e mouse is lejun Flavor-Aid

>>50595098
http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-new-world-of-darkness/vampire-the-requiem/1004874-is-there-any-difference-between-blood-and-smoke-and-vtr-2nd-edition?p=1006891#post1006891

>An index, the Humbled header fixed, and two (I think) typos.

Not "nothing" but yeah, changing from B&S to 2e didn't "fix" any of the mechanical problems.

>>50595096
I never dismissed any 1e material. Conversely, it runs contrary to the spirit of the game not to take into account new info provided in 2e. Many of the 1e Crone themes are very much compatible with the BS write up. Including Creation is power and Tribulation brings enlightenment.

>>50594869
"Kill mortals, just fuckin' kill 'em all whenever you can" isn't that common denominator.

>>50595137
>straw-manning

So I got a session planned for a hunter game where the players find an "immortal" who's using an artifact to drain memories from the elderly and turn them into extra years in his life span, and the missing memories from the drained old folk show up as Alzheimer's symptoms.

Anything like that in pre-existing splats? Or should I presume the players will destroy it and gm handwave the mechanics?

>>50595132
If we're trying to harmonize the interpretations, I think what makes the most sense is that the Blood and Smoke interpretation is one possible one that doesn't come close to describing every cult under the Circle. Probably not even half, but they will be the most visible.

>>50595143
Sounds like a Mage to me.

hurt locker leak WHERE

>>50595141
>>50595156
Look, most of us are at a disadvantage here when it comes to "harmonizing the interpretations" because we can't actually read what's written about these apparently peaceful and loving Acolytes in the first place.

>>50594971
I'm actually asking this Anon:
>>50594883
If all creation requires destruction, then what makes Acolytes special?

>>50595156
I think it's also a general trend in 2e to make vampires less sympathetic, more monsterous. This makes sense. Most vampires will eventually stabilize around Humanity 4, making it harder for them to care if they lose themselves to the Beast and drink someone dry. It makes it hard for them to care about humans as more than cattle. I mean, they might still have their favourite pets. But in the end, humans are food.

>>50594653
Actually US police, at least some areas, does dynamic shooting courses. In fact it's argued that those courses are one of main reasons why are cops so trigger happy - they are fed with exaggerated claims of constant danger they face, how to shoot when threatened and because of that they feel threatened all the time (even though policeman is far from most dangerous occupations).

>>50594792
You should stop watching tv. Look up actual statistics how often policemen experience firefights.

>>50595056
>Arts and crafts use resources won by destroying life: paint pigments, brushes, wood, etc.
stone... Everything uses resources from destroyed lives ffs. Fossil fuels are destroyed lives. Calling this destruction is really stretch.

>>50595125
Anon is free to have any opinion they want!
Except enjoying Changing Breeds, or Changeling the Dreaming, or playing fan-splats, or playing goofy Malks, or caring about pronouns, or liking Mummy.

Those opinions are just wrong.

>>50595172
>>50595184
Members of the Circle realize this fact, more so than others. They are less of a performative contradiction in this respect.

>>50595169
The role of the Maiden is to advise and represent the Circle, when Maidenly advice and representation are appropriate. She symbolically possesses an unsullied perspective, and this is often true in fact as well. Since she has not experienced the kill, talking to her can remind more experienced Kindred what that time before killing was like. Because she is closer to humanity, her words may renew those whose spirits are wearied from contending with the Beast.
Proximity to her human origins cuts both ways for the covenant. The Virgin is unlikely to be thrown into the depths of intra-covenant realpolitik. Indeed, the Circle typically protects her from that sort of depraved self-interest. But when the Circle needs a fair face to speak with humans, one who can remember what it was like to breathe and laugh under the sun, a Maiden is often called upon.
Many neonates qualify as Virgins, though (as with mortals) it’s usually just a matter of time. At Status 0 to •, a Maiden is much like any other neonate in the Circle, someone to be taught and tested, though perhaps the newcomer may find (to her puzzlement) that older Kindred occasionally stop by for conversations that seem aimless and embarrassingly personal by turns. Only later, after she’s left the Maiden stage, does she understand their interest in her opinions. -->

>>50595199
>Except enjoying Changing Breeds, or Changeling the Dreaming, or playing fan-splats, or playing goofy Malks, or caring about pronouns, or liking Mummy.
Or liking Changeling 2e, or thinking Mage 2e was good, or liking Conditions, or not hating the writing, or...

>>50595169
Those are described in various people's head cannon

>>50595217
At Status •• to •••, a Virgin probably has some
insight into her position, and the Circle’s point of view on it. This is the range at which one stops being a Maiden by default and starts being one intentionally. There are some Acolytes who emphasize politics and clout above mystic insight and who gain this degree of status without paying much attention the discussions of what purity means to vampires. Indeed, many Maidens who pursue mortal contacts as an avenue of power strive to retain their Maiden status, not out of any religious imperative, but because it’s easier to cope with mortals when they aren’t disposable. But far more often, a Status 3 Maiden has accepted the role and is struggling to maintain it.
No one gets to Status •••• or ••••• as a Virgin without labor. The temptation to kill, the opportunities to get away with it and the times when it would just be so much simpler — there have just been far too many to resist without conscious effort, and lots of it. These Virgins are regarded not only with respect, but nearly awe for their accomplishment, and there are few whose condemnation for careless, Masquerade-threatening callousness sticks as much as someone who has walked the walk for 50 or 100 years.

>>50595220
Changeling 2e isn't even out yet is it? We just have the Huntsmen rules and stuff on the kiths and courts.

Let's give it time before we hivemind it good or bad.

>>50595217
Dedicated waifu role.

>>50595199

And yet people like aspel keep posting.

>>50595251
Did you miss up thread where people are saying David Hill ruined Changeling? Enough playtesting material has been released that people are forming opinions.

If you were to order a vampire drink another vamp's blood via blood bond or dominate,do they both get to resist every single blood point?What if the target is an assamite?
Any other fun ways to kill an assamite?

>>50595182
>I think it's also a general trend in 2e to make vampires less sympathetic, more monsterous. This makes sense. Most vampires will eventually stabilize around Humanity 4, making it harder for them to care if they lose themselves to the Beast and drink someone dry. It makes it hard for them to care about humans as more than cattle. I mean, they might still have their favourite pets. But in the end, humans are food.
This was an obnoxious trend in 1e already, and 2e's just made it more obnoxious. Just let us play one of a diverse array of concepts without the universe seeming to want to punish us for our choice, damn it.

>>50595217
ONE member in the whole coven. A title which is, as the description reveals, is hard to keep as decades progress into centuries. That sure doesn't sound like whole sub-factions of the covenant having this hippie mentality of peace and love towards the kine.

>>50595280
So, you dislike the Humanity mechanics? That's pretty central to the game, guy.

>>50595258
Yeah, and when they post, everyone jumps to tell them to go kill themselves because they're opinions are shit.
You can't deny there's a hivemind ready to hammer people down if they don't agree.

>>50595312
People get yelled at for even appearing to post like Aspel.

Once I was evidently Aspel. Was a shock to me.

>>50595280
If your concept is all about being shitty, of course the universe is going to shit on you.
I don't even understand this complaint.

>>50595298
Some people hate any sort of Alignment because they don't like consequences.

>>50595322
Shut up, Aspel
Just kidding, I'm Aspel

>>50595283
You seemed to take "not just an inferior copy of Belial's Brood" as "vampire Children of Gaia," which was not, in fact, what I was saying. But if you want to talk about cults...

> Some cults, however rare, eschew Crúac completely. Perhaps they were once practitioners, but found that the chains it placed upon their souls (or the chains it removed from the monsters within) were unwelcome.

>>50595298
My argument is going to be different depending on whether we're talking about 2e Humanity or not; which are we?

>>50595345
2e Humanity is better in every way.

>>50595312
>You can't deny there's a hivemind ready to hammer people down if they don't agree.
Oh please, there's never more than 50 or 60 posters in these threads. If you can't articulate your opinion logically and with evidence, then obviously people are going to jump on you.

>>50595370
Can't tell if actually thick, or just trolling.

>>50595370
But the people with articulated opinions with logic and evidence are the ones getting jumped on and the ones going "Chrod was a stillborn abortion" are the """right""" opinion.

Liking the game seems to put you in a minority here.

>>50595361
All in all, yes. It's also much less related to morality, because how much you see yourself as human doesn't directly map to how much you care about humanity. You can have Humanity 4 and still go out of your way to protect humans, in a way that resembles ardent environmentalists/animal lovers. And there'll probably be more Kindred like that than there are humans like that, since humans can do more for the Kindred directly and are still sapient.

>>50595207
Are you saying that by realizing that all creation comes from destruction their methods of creation differ from those of normal people?

>People hating on this opening zine
Why do you hate fun?

>>50595184
Tell me all about how competition shooters get in firefights more often than police officers, please. Again, your ignorance astounds.

>>50595345
I reacted to the idea that a significant part of the Covenant would frown upon killing human beings, for more morally principled reasons than: Masquerade breaches are inconvenient. Such an attitude goes against the vampire type and it goes especially against the Crone (and Sanctified and Ordo) type.

>>50595439
I think his point was that it is likely both a police officer character and a competition shooter character would both have never been in a firefight.

>>50595448
Significant? Maybe not. But not an unheard-of minority, either.

>>50595411
This. I used an example with a friend.
Killing an inhuman monster that looks like a person shouldn't be counted as murder. It is more like
>Holy fuck you just killed a blood drinking nightmare that resembles a person. Roll to see if you can fucking deal with that shit.
It is more dependent on your frame of mind rather then a hard line morality system.

>>50595411
From BS humanity:

>Weathered (Humanity 4): A weathered vampire has seen more death and devastation than most mortals will in a lifetime. Most ancilla fall into this range of Humanity. While not spree killers, a vampire at this level has taken lives, and understands that he probably will again in order to guarantee continued survival.
He sees humans as fragile and temporary. He’s calculating and
cunning, having a mind attuned to consequence. This shows in
immediate behaviors.

Sure, they could still try to protect humans. But it's questionable that they would do this because they see the worth of a human life as a human life. A more probable reason would be to keep up a healthy prey-population or to avoid Masquerade breaches

>>50595408
>Liking the game
Liking something and being able to argue for it are two completely different things. Aspel's spewings, for example, are neither logical, nor based in evidence. But that's enough meta for one thread, I suppose.

>>50595486
And THIS is what I hate about Humanity. Not the mechanics; those are sound. What I hate is when they start telling us what those mechanics should mean when roleplaying our own bloody characters.

>>50595415
It's more of a philosophical point, which would probably help them attain their mystic powers.

>>50595322

Aspel is not just a person. He/She/It has reached the level of such transcendent trolling and contentiousness that being an "Aspel" is a (quite negative) state of being. "To Aspel" is synonymous with the worst caricatures of shockingly unaware SJW trolling.

You sadly might have once been an Aspel while posting on wodg. Hopefully, you've recovered and can join polite company.

Now back to your regularly scheduled CofD/WOD...

I was thinking, you know what would go great with the yesterday's release of Hurt Locker and SotC, some Mage Signs of Sorcery or Tome of the Pentacle spoilers.

How are we going to productively argue about mage supremacy over filthy normies and undead leeches without more insight into Mage 2e.

>>50595279
Anyone?

>>50595514
These are logical consequences for characters at this level of Humanity, as accidental killing and impassionate violence are no longer considered Breaking Points.

Why would a vamp, who not only doesn't but can't even care about such acts, treat humans as anything other than favoured pet animals and/or cattle?

>>50594735

I would genuinely be surprised if the whole ruleset wasn't in Scion: Origin and Trinity Continuum Core Rulebook.

>>50595514
Well, that's the issue with WoD in general, as opposed to 'lighter' fare RPGs, as it necessarily sticks its finger down those philosophical holes that can lead to rather problematic issues.

It goes in any number of ways, of course, as the logical consequences of, say, achieving a breaking point, depend on how the individual actualizes that event.

>>50595548
It is entirely possible to get hit in the chest with an axe, read your own obituary, and join a covenant all in your first week of vampirism and drop to Humanity 4. Also, impassioned violence and accidental killing are, in fact, level 4 breaking points; it's 3 where they stop being so.

>>50595570
This would all be fine if there were different examples of how Humanity-X vampires work at each level, instead of just one.

>>50595481
>>50595411
>You can have Humanity 4 and still go out of your way to protect humans
And? Nothing about 2e prevents that. Being Humanity 4 doesn't make you a murder monster.
Or are you giving that as an example for why 2e is better?
>>50595514
>>50595570
>>50595548
It's logical consequences, as the other anon said, but it's also just a generalization. It's not telling you how to roleplay, it's giving you advice on how to roleplay. I mean, it says "a vampire at this level has taken lives", but that's not inherently true, just likely true.
>>50595486
They could also just still care about humans but not really even understand WHY they care. Then again, most humans don't even really know why they care about the things they care about.
Honestly I fucking love Humanity in 2e.

>>50595500
>>50595517
>Aspel's spewings, for example, are neither logical, nor based in evidence.
Except that they are, you just don't agree with them. And because people in the thread don't agree with them, they shit and whine and piss and bitch and moan and tear up the threads because someone went against the hivemind and that can't stand.

>>50595428

I appreciate that it remembers that Carthians never fucking learn any good lessons from their failures.

>>50595556
>>50594735
I don't really expect them to release a "Storypath Core" or anything approaching it other than the preview from Gencon.

>>50595603
fuck off Aspel

>>50595277
He certainly ruined seemings and pledges.

>>50595612

Same, that's the purpose of the center corebooks for the two lines. It'll probably mean that we'll have to find our own generic mechanics terms for some things, but that shouldn't be too difficult.

>>50595593
It's guidelines man. The only hard-wired thing is the modifier to human interactions.

>>50595603
If you are so sick of people disagreeing with you, why don't you actually just leave? Not even trying to get you to leave. I am legitimately asking.

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41KB, 426x636px

>>50595603
Goddamnit Aspel, just for the purposes of instruction, since we're on the topic of articulating evidence, this post is an exact expression of how terrible your logic (or, more likely, lack of education) is:

>And? ...doesn't make you a murder monster.
>just a generalization (about (not) caring)
>not really even understand WHY they care

These two lines do not follow logically. Succinctly, you are stating a position (call it A), then saying that the consequences of position A don't follow because of an observation that is outside the mechanics of the system and only tangentially related.

In other words, that's like saying, "Mars is a better planet than Venus because Pluto's orbit is eccentric." The logic does not flow.

You've used this convoluted logic quite a number of times, Aspel. It's mind-boggling incorrect on so many levels.

Let's have some fun and attempt to remain somewhat on point for wodg.

If Aspel existed in the CofD or WOD, what would be his splat and what social grouping would he join?

>>50595463
Pretty much.

>>50595631
I don't want to excuse him, but to be frank it was Demon that ruined pledges.

>>50595556
>>50595612
>>50595632
that's sort of what I was afraid of.

I mean, the preview is good, but when I first saw the Storypath system announced I felt like we might be getting something made to be easy to adapt, change, and reuse. A sort of 'OGL'-like system that wasn't as hardrooted in how the World of Darkness functions.

If the preview is going to be the main or only similarities between the two, and the rest will just be the usual 'the core rules will explain how this game works', it might be hard to adapt, or hard to generally talk about, since there won't be terms for those differences.

Oh well. I guess I can just start working on my homebrew now, at that point.

What is now the problem with 2e Circle?

>>50595764
nothing, really

>>50595731
>>50595631
Pledges were ruined in 1st edition.

At least in the core rules of it.

I don't know if some book tried to make them better, but they were wonky as hell.

>>50595764
A really terrible writeup in the corebook that makes them an inferior copy of Belial's Brood if you take it literally. It also claims they were only recently established.

>>50595774
I'd rather say that the Pledges were what ruined 1e.

>>50595777
>inferior copy of BB
false
>only recently established
as a major covenant! all those sects and factions that make up the covenant could have existed previously and, in fact, cruac did exist before the Mother' Army became a thing.

You're being a cry baby

>>50595819
>false
Well, they're certainly not a superior one.
>Mother' Army
A major fucking part of the problem. That should have stayed dead and buried in Danse Macabre; it was never a good idea.

>>50595841
they have little to nothing to do with BB. BB was all about shedding the man and doing suicide terrorism-ish acts. breaking the masq etc.

>Mother's Army
You do realize that that's just a name, right. It doesn't necessarily imply that the Circle is a tierr 3 organization as in DM

>>50595742

I know that Scion's going kind of OGL thanks to a stretch goal. I figure Trinity will have the same one for its KS, and it'd be easier to just do a generic reference document at that point.

>>50595730
Vampire: the Masquerade
Nosferatu

So, I've been thinking about a twist on the idea of the Baali from Masquerade, in Requiem. I had the idea to make them a Ventrue bloodline that originated in the ancient Middle East as a sort of priest/shadow ruler caste for the Canaanites; they ruled the night while kings and suchlike ruled the day, and also provided spiritual guidance and protection for their flocks. But the Israelite invasion wound up destroying their society and nearly wiping out the Baali; the survivors were transfigured with a bitter hatred for Judaism that eventually transferred to its successors, Christianity and Islam. Many Baali abandoned their old religious practices for antinomian forms of revenge, and plenty joined Belial's Brood, but in modern nights, a few sleeping elders have awoken and are trying to revive the old ways among any surviving modern Baali who'll listen.

Their extra Discipline would be Auspex, and they'd have Devotions that fuse Auspex and Dominate to watch over and guide mortals from afar. Their weakness is a susceptibility to rage frenzy from seeing Abrahamic religious iconography.

>tfw there are no vidya where you can play as a werewolf or it is made good
The only game that comes to mind is Skyrim but it is made so dull over there.

>>50595666
I've been here so long I've grown roots.
>>50595718
Except that it's not. It's not convoluted at all. It's a generalization about how a Humanity 4 vampire would act, not the dictum from God. A Humanity 4 vampire who still cares is going to still be a Humanity 4 vampire, but there's no reason they can't be fond of those dumb things that breathe.

>>50595631
No he didn't.
>>50595731
>>50595774
>>50595784
>Pledges were ruined in 1st edition.
This. I feel like I'm the only person who thought they were garbage. They make no sense, half of them don't seem to follow the rules, and they're so ridiculously abusable that most people didn't take them seriously and used them for free dots.
I wouldn't say pledges are what ruined 1e, though. That'd probably be "my Keeper was nice to me" and people wanting to play it like Dreaming.

>>50595742
Hopefully they'll have, like... something.
I think they're making it open, and I'd like to see it used for homebrews the way that Cortex and Cypher are.

>>50595730
Human Mortal.

>>50596081
>I wouldn't say pledges are what ruined 1e, though. That'd probably be "my Keeper was nice to me" and people wanting to play it like Dreaming.
This is literally badwrongfun. Why are you badwrongfunning, Aspel?

>>50596112
Kinkshaming is my kink.

>>50596081
5/6 seemings are garbage and they all barely matter now, i'd call that ruining them.

>>50596130
Kink shaming is a legitimate thing to do, most kinks are things peopl should be ashamed about.

Thanks, guys. I used to come here wanting and hoping to talk about Changeling.

You've ruined that.

>>50595603
>And? Nothing about 2e prevents that. Being Humanity 4 doesn't make you a murder monster.
>Or are you giving that as an example for why 2e is better?

Oh god, i feel myself agreeing with aspel on this one. I feel so wrong.

But yes, whenever the game gives you those kind of "this is how you should RP" is morenof a suggestion and could be completely ignore in favor of a more fitting interpretation.

>>50596177
My kinks are pretty vanilla so I guess I got lucky.

>>50596183
Come to Infinite C han. Its way more chill there. less arguing and more help.

>>50595603
>Except that they are, you just don't agree with them. And because people in the thread don't agree with them, they shit and whine and piss and bitch and moan and tear up the threads because someone went against the hivemind and that can't stand.

Then why dont you go posting on rpg.net or opp forums? Obviously your opinion is mayority on those cesspools.

I like tg for its unmodded vitriol hate whats your excuse?

>>50596273
>I like tg for its unmodded vitriol hate whats your excuse?
This. If someone calls me a fucking moron it makes me reread my own opinion and analyse it better. It's kind of like getting bullied at school. Getting bullied sucks I was bullied a ton as a kid and it affected me so badly I was homeschooled during high school. But god damn mockery is important for weeding out stupid behaviour.

>>50596273
Aspel's tried that before, that's why we know he's called Aspel. He ddidn't fare well there either.

>>50596319
Jees they are just a pariah everywhere. What happened?

>>50595730

A hero in beast.

Or a tranny changeling with clarity 0 and wyrd 1. Living in his own magical realm but harmless.

>>50596337
>A hero in beast.
Does that make us the evil mind fuckery monsters?

>>50595784
>>50596081
>Pledges were ruined in 1st edition.
Changeling 1e was most successful WoD game not counting the v,w,m trinity, yeah totally ruined game.

>>50596382
The game was great DESPITE pledges. Not DUE to them.
The game was great despite the mechanics.

>>50596329
Not really a pariah, 's just that people are less likely to take up the bait over therre. But this one worked quite well:

http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-new-world-of-darkness/geist-the-sin-eaters/133915-sin-eater-history-and-background-expansion-fluff-houserules

>>50596183

We are talking about changeling, talking about how it will suck or not is talking about it. Or would you preffer the munny treatment, where we never discuss it?

>>50596382
Yeah because no one used pledges, at all.

>>50596329
Rory/Aspel just isn't that good at being polite or reasonable, poor 'girl' can't into being good at having discussions.

>>50596413
Oh jees this is great

>>50596453
That's because they're literally autistic.

>>50596353

it either make us a poorly written splat or aspel is still waiting his beast to try to slay and get kill off.

>>50596156
They matter more. And if you think 5/6 of them are garbage then you can't count, but I'd also like to know which one you think isn't garbage.
>>50596177
Being shamed is also my kink.

>>50596240
>Oh god, i feel myself agreeing with aspel on this one.
How terrible.

>>50596273
>>50596308
Unmoderated vitriol is fine, but you're whiny fucks who hate the game and do nothing but bitch about it. I don't want to talk with sycophants, but I don't want to hear people shit on the game without even understanding it. Half the complaints make no fucking sense, and the other half amount to hating the game for doing what it wants to do better than it did the first time around.

>>50596353
>>50596337
>A hero in beast.
:^)

>>50596564
You still didn't answer me regarding badwrongfunning Changeling.

>>50596382
>>50596448
Vampire: The Masquerade was the most successful game, but that doesn't mean there aren't valid criticisms about it from a mechanical or thematic standpoint.
When we say "ruined", we don't mean "caused it to do poorly", we mean that it was a terrible aspect that didn't need to be there and was handled badly.

>>50596564
>Being shamed is also my kink.
Aspel confirmed for cuckster

>>50596564
Shit, sorry, literally writing this in bed. 5/7 of them are bad, Wizened and Inkhearts or whatever are alright even if I'd never play a inkheart.

>>50596655
Aspel is literally a fan of cuckolding, trust me he's told me. The dood really is a SJW cuck.

>>50596005

I like it, but I feel like that weakness might be a bit too vague to really be useful in play.

>>50596598
Oh, you were serious?

I think that in a vacuum it's fine to play games in different ways. If you really get your kicks from playing Requiem and stripping out the Humanity and the Covenants and playing it like a mix of anime and a The Sopranos fanfic written by someone too young to watch the Sopranos--and of course if you just want to ignore the horror of the Durance and play a happyfun Lost like it was Dreaming--more power to you.

But to act like that's what the game SHOULD be, that it not being like that is somehow a flaw, that's a problem. That's where the issue comes in. It's not "badwrongfun", but it's still playing the game in a way that isn't intended. You're basically playing a different game. I don't think playing games differently is wrong, but the problem comes from acting like the game you're playing is the game everyone else is playing.

I don't care if you use your spatula for a fly swatter, just don't complain to everyone that it's not good at it. It's not meant to be. It's for flipping burgers, not flatting swies.

>>50596681
I haven't read Inkhearts yet, but...
>literally liking the worst Seeming

>>50596698
Is that you, Bunchies? I thought we were mercifully through with you.

>>50596564
>I don't want to talk with sycophants

>doesnt wanna talk to sycophants
>doesnt realize he has been a sycophant all along.

The aspel as beast hero has more merit that i though.

>>50596723
Well, when I designed it for 1e, religious symbols basically worked like other vampires for triggering Predator's Taint, albeit always in rage mode: you'd only be triggered upon seeing it the first time, but it would always be unpleasant.

>>50596741
Your example isn't a viable analogy. The only difficulty created by "my Keeper was pretty cool" is explaining why you left Arcadia. Theoretically, they might have gotten bored and kicked you out... or they could have mysteriously disappeared and you were left unsupported. No further changing of the universe is required; it's purely a matter of character background design, which really should be left up to the player to begin with.

>>50596763
Ayn Rand.

Anyway I'll be honest, It's more about me not liking the new treatment of seemings in changeling 2e, personally I'll just use the 1e stuff and run some jury rigged combo of the two editions. Only eason I 'like' inkhearts is because I had no faith in them and they didn't offend me.

How compatible is the first and second edition of cfod?

>>50596834

Ah, OK, that makes more sense. In that case, for 2e it could be a custom version of the religious symbols Bane that they automatically have to take, with an increasing bonus to resist frenzy rolls with the same symbols reappearing.

>>50596429

>Or would you preffer the munny treatment, where we never discuss it?

Why must you hurt me like this?

Wait, wait. 2e changelings can become human again?!?

>>50596780
Liking the product doesn't make someone a sycophant. Just because my criticism doesn't begin and end with "it's stillborn" and "bloobloo SJWs" doesn't mean I have none.

>>50596834
The only difficulty created by "my Keeper was pretty cool" is explaining why an alien nightmare monster that by definition can't understand humanity and can only see them as tools and pawns was "cool". Every True Fae is a horrible monster that kidnaps, abuse, and physically changes their playthings. Your soul is torn to shreds as you're dragged kicking and screaming through the Hedge, and your body twisted by the abuse you suffer.

There's no such thing as a "good Keeper", just ones who's abuse was less overt. It's literally baked into the core template.

>>50596902
Oh. Fuck. I didn't realize it was you I was talking to.
You don't even understand Changeling. You haven't even read the fucking book. You're exactly the kind of "I want to ignore the themes and tone and mechanics and everything else" dumbass I was talking about.

Just play Dreaming. It's literally exactly what you want.

>>50596991
In a long complicated and morally sketchy process, yes, potentially.

>>50591360
What if you want to run a game that spans years and players want families? No reason a PC should stop being around because they're pregnant unless its a combat situation.

I'm reading through Hurt Locker now, and it looks like they fucked up the statblock for revolvers. Also, the Blast Area rules say "The number listed is for the primary blast area, while the secondary blast area is twice this range. This trait is listed in three values separated by slashes. The first number is the ground zero blast area, the second number is the primary blast area, and the secondary blast area is twice this range." This is contradictory. Based on the chart, I think they went with the former rules, but this does not help with determining the Ground Zero or Secondary blast radius.

>>50596996
>The only difficulty created by "my Keeper was pretty cool" is explaining why an alien nightmare monster that by definition can't understand humanity and can only see them as tools and pawns was "cool". Every True Fae is a horrible monster that kidnaps, abuse, and physically changes their playthings. Your soul is torn to shreds as you're dragged kicking and screaming through the Hedge, and your body twisted by the abuse you suffer.
So given that the True Fae don't experience time in the way that material beings do, and the amount of time spent in Arcadia translates to material time not at all, what exactly is stopping a Keeper from enjoying being nice for maybe a month or so before suddenly vanishing or whatnot?

>>50597069
there's a thread at opp forums where you can report mistakes, these will be corrected before the POD book is made available.

>>50597068
Preggos can fight. I mean, not well, and not as well as other better mammals, but still.

>>50597069
Mention that on the forums in the errata thread, not here.

>>50597077
Because in addition to being out of theme, kidnapping people isn't very nice to begin with. Like, let's just get that out of the way: Being kidnapped is a pretty fucking traumatic event. I don't care if you were kidnapped and your kidnapper is actually a nice person, you were still fucking kidnapped. Not only kidnapped, but taken to a strange dreamland, and on the way you lost part of your soul. Under no circumstance is that something you can just not be effected by.

You can argue that "well that's how my character is", but that's never a valid excuse, and it's pissed me off the times people have tried that kind of concept in the games I've been in or tried to run. It's not a realistic reaction.

Every True Fae is an abuser not just because that's the theme, but because to become a Changeling in the first place, you have to have been abused. The abuse is what changes you. You don't become a Changeling without hurting.

Will any of you faggots deliver to us poorfags?

>>50597093
>>50597138
I'm still waiting for my account to be approved by an administrator. It's been several days and I still can't post.

>>50597077
Mostly that they don't understand it, and would suck at it. I mean, it is a possibility, but more likely is someone getting literally spoiled half to death.

'They say to feed your pets regularly' the True Fae muses as it has a machine constantly stuff food down the changelings throat, at a regulated and mechanized interval, that seems to go on unattended for hours.

But hey, your true fae seemed to really care, and you never went hungry right? They were pretty cool.

So, David Hill is the new Justin Achilli... Well, unlike Justin, at least David's not in denial...

>>50597138
Who says you were kidnapped? You might have just wandered into a gate by accident. You're also sort of proving my point, in that yes, you'll be changed into a changeling by the mere fact of entering Arcadia, as it has traumatic aspects inherently.

Honestly, though, I think both versions of Changeling missed the mark. Lost made Arcadia too negative and Dreaming was way too obsessed with medieval fantasy.

>>50597138
>better mammals
Sounds like breeder hate.

>>50597152
were you banned before?

Niceness can also be a form of abuse. That's the thing about abuse, it's insidious and comes in so many forms. It's totally possible for an aspect of a True Fae to be an overly attached, preening creature using performative kindness to control and dominate, and them abandon the Changeling when they get bored. Or maybe the Changeling realizes what's going on and has to pull the bandaid off, so to speak.

Sometimes the hurting doesn't happen during the abuse, but instead after, maybe even some time after, when you're far away and you realize that something very wrong was done to you.

There's a valid abuse survivor narrative in this sort of thing, so throwing it on the "Just Play Dreaming" pile seems really short sighted. If 2e's core doesn't make mention about these kinds of abuses, I'd be very surprised, as someone whose pretty OK with 2e leaning more on the abuse survivor narrative.

Why is Bloodlines so much less depressing than every single other Vampire book makes the setting seem? Both old and new.

To which character do Invictus Oaths belong? I mean, who pays the xp costs?

>>50597152
the gun chart fuck up has already been reported

>>50596601
>Vampire: The Masquerade was the most successful game

While true, the ttrpg gaming scene was FAR different in the mid-1990's than it was in the 2000's, no less today.

Let's see if Paradox and their One World of Darkness achieves similar heights in the coming years.

>>50596996
Aha, I'm just fucking with you, I'm neither a sadist or the fucking weirdo that buncha is. Besides I own a physical copy and have read every Changeling book but Equinox roads.

File: horned_god_by_shamansoulstudios.jpg (53KB, 600x900px) Image search: [Google]

53KB, 600x900px

>>50592792
>horned god cock

I give you the uncensored version. veiny.

>>50597297
God bless you Saytr Buccawhatever and your stupid books, they bring me untold joy.

>>50597181
What? I don't see how that's "breeder hate".
Other mammals are just better at pregnancy than humans.

>>50597153
>'They say to feed your pets regularly' the True Fae muses as it has a machine constantly stuff food down the changelings throat, at a regulated and mechanized interval, that seems to go on unattended for hours.
I'm pretty sure I've seen weird fetish porn of that on /d/

>>50597180
Wandered in and then taken in and not allowed to go home. Also, Arcadia is meant to be negative.

>>50597228
Because Bloodlines is a ridiculous comedy.

>>50597226
I'm well aware, and I'm perfectly fine with concepts where that's played up. I mean, being let go by your Keeper after you were their prized lover that they never mistreated IS abuse. Hell, I've got a friend suffering exactly that. Her fiancee dumped her. First person who ever made her feel like she was worth being loved and then she turns around and says "actually I don't love you and we're through". That's fucking shitty.

My problem is that these people don't want that, though. They want to play it where their Durance wasn't bad at all, and their Keeper was nice, and they're not suffering at all. It's that people don't want to think about the abuse of the Durance *at all* that makes me say "just play Dreaming".

>>50597289
Equinox Roads is p. neat. It has a weird minigame for playing True Fae, and I like the whole "Made of Titles" thing the True Fae have going on.

>>50597329
>Aspel shits on Bloodlines
why am I not surprised

>>50597268
>Let's see if Paradox and their One World of Darkness achieves similar heights in the coming years.

Definitely not. Paradox is rather niche.

>>50597221
No, I just created an account a few days ago

>>50595339
No, I am Aspel

>>50597341
Because I've done it several times? It's a bad game. It's a bad game that is so close to being a good game, which is even worse.

>>50595514
Most of those paragraphs are advice for how to roleplay a typical NPC of this level of Humanity. See the "most ancillae fall into this range" in the previous sentence.

PCs are free to buck the trend, or not, as the players see fit.

>>50596081
You haven't grown roots, you're just a miserable, fat, wretched little creature that can't have the common decency to not shit all over everyone when you don't get your way. You blame your haters on 'popularity' and being a 'well known figure' when you're just hated because you're an impossible to get along with cunt. Which is why you don't have any friends, a career, or any redeeming qualities in life.

>>50597389
>I've done it several times
Nah, my guess is you've not banged anyone just yet.

It's a good game. In fact, it's one of the all time populars. There is even this meme about it: everytime you mention it, someone will reinstall it. 's Not to say that it didn't ened patches to fix bugs and all that. But it was atmospheric as fuck. I played through it several times. Throughly enjoyed every single run.

>>50597329

Are you sure that's what they want, or do you think that's what they want? I can't say I'm getting that in this conversation.

>>50597389
But I had fun with it
Does that mean that I like bad things?

>>50596453
Doug. It's name is Doug.

I know I'm asking a lot of this place, but I really wish folks here could disagree with someone without vomiting forth a small essay's worth of nonsensical garbage about them.

>>50596763
He showed back up briefly in the discord. Long enough to see his nemesis was still there and flee.

>>50597329
Honestly I'll probably try to buy it this month as a christmas gift to me, then I'll have all the books.

But still, I hope Changeling 2e ends up being better than I think it's going to be, even if I dont like the seemings the way they're treated now It's easy to change. At least their not demon levels of not mattering. Looking at you Incarnations.

>>50597466
You are in 4chan. Not possible.

>>50597463

Aspel doesn't know the difference between "Janky but good" and "Bad", you're fine. They only played Bloodlines in their yearly "magnanimous" attempt to try to like the setting they don't like, only to be "bitterly disappointed" that they still don't like the setting that they don't like. Not being prepared for a janky Troika game from the early 2000s was just icing on the cake.

>>50597464
I thought it was Rory Walker?

>>50597511
No, it's name is Doug. That's the name it was given at birth.

>>50597466

White Wolf fandom. It never, ever changes, Atamajakki. It's certainly why I'm glad I'm still a literally who.

>>50597529
So their name now is dougette?

I'm curious, is there any type of DRM on drive-thru RPG files?

>>50597454
>It's a good game. In fact, it's one of the all time populars.
I guess Twilight is a good book :^)

>>50597610
>what is a false equivalence

You could also just say that you have zero arguments to defend your position.

>>50597508
It's not just the mechanics that I don't like, man.
>>50597463
You're on 4chan, so that's a given.

>>50597483
Actually, someone let me know that he said if I showed up on the CofD Discord again he'd just leave, because he was "done" with me (so done that he brought me up out of nowhere). So I posted that screenshot on otherchan where he was bitching about me and he left the Discord :^)

>>50597487
I didn't like the Seemings at first either, but I realized that I was just too attached to the baggage of the Seemings from 1e.
>At least their not demon levels of not mattering. Looking at you Incarnations.
Hey, they matter. They're what determines your Breaking Points, and I think they each have a small bonus.
Even Incarnations mattered a tiny bit, if you went Loud.

You want an X Splat that matters not one bit, look to Thresholds.

>>50597599
Nope, no watermarks.

>>50597655
It's not a false equivalency, it's the same logic. Actually, it's not, because Twilight sold better.
Bloodlines is well liked, and I can definitely see why. But for me, there was just so much that was garbage, and so much that tried to be clever but missed the mark. The whole world being peppered with industrial band posters and all the female characters dressing like fap fodder just made the whole thing feel juvenile.
It's a game that I wanted to be good, and it started out good, but then it just went down hill.