I liked it

>>50570561
Ad Mech guy was a cool dude who I would love to hang out with.

>>50570561
I want the Emperor to tell me stories.

people did not like it?

>>50570561

Yeah, I thought it was a genuinely good book. Given that ADB dislikes the Emperor, he actually laid out the Emperor's view from things from a reasonable perspective. The introduction of the Choir was also done well, I think.

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>>50570561
>yfw Kitten is stuck somewhere in the Webway

>>50570893

He's dead. Abbaddon eventually gets the sword, which means that the Custodes must have died at some point. To be fair, he did get very, very far away.

>>50570893
I actually like that series.

That last episode implying kitten got all the lore from the Black Library made so much sense it hurt. Shit surprised the hell out of me.

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>>50570561
XV did nothing wrong!

I liked it too.

The impression I'm getting from the internet-rage is that most people don't like that exchange where the Emperor flat-out states that he cares nothing for glory and war, and the Primarchs are simply another tool for him.

It was unexpected, but I liked that. It made sense in context; the Emperor uses everyone and everything as a tool, and is committed to no one. He even states that he treasures the Custodes because of the various lives they embody, but he's still expended 9,000 of them (and counting) in the fight for the Webway.

Even if he views them as tools, it doesn't take away from the gravitas of fighting Horus/Sixteenth on the last day. It stays tragic and horrible, but is more like Frankenstein turning on its maker (or, like the Emperor himself compares them too, Pinocchio).

In addition, I think it adds more 'flavour' to the various identities the Primarchs have made for themselves. They were intended to be nameless tools (maybe), but instead they're each completely distinct, shaped by their own experiences and views. Two of them got so off the rails that everyone is forbidden to speak of them every again.

Alternatively, you can read into the various exchanges that Emps has with different people and conclude that his words and views change depending on who he is interacting with (like his appearance).

Oh, also, at one point, the Emperor states that the only thing worse than betrayal is failure. I like to think that indirectly answers the question of "Why didn't the Emperor help the Eaters of Cities on Nuceria?" Angron was about to die down there, he had failed. The Twelfth would have uses, but the Emperor had no regard for failure.

>>50571030
What, how was it implied?

The only reason people bitch about is that the Emp says to one of his Custodes that he really doesn't consider the Primarchs his sons. This is very vague as it is and will probably be revealed to be a lie anyway.

I found Arkhan Land and that one Blood Angel to be unnecessary, but that's just a small quibble

I liked that little bits where they emphasized the custodes inhuman features

Master of Mankind; more like Custodes Do Stuff And Kick Ass, amirite?

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The Good:
>The Emperor's stories to his Tribune
>Arkhan Land
>Kane shooting his praying minions
>The Knight character. Her arc felt needless at first but she was p badass ultimately
>Custodes in general
>Diocletian, Custodes Dread, the Blood Angel, and that chick Knight all teaming up against a Drach'nyen-possessed Mechanicum mini-titan.
>That Titan Princeps taking on a Chaos Warlord and Warhound at once
>Chaos Daemons that can be a bit spooky ("WHEN WILL THE SUN RISE")
>The Emperor fighting once he actually appears (in b4 "psssh" memes)

The Bad:
>A lot of stuff felt like filler, particularly the bits about Servitors getting their shit wrecked and the Archimandrite character in general
>Not enough Emperor to really be called "Master of Mankind". He only appears personally in the final 2 chapters outside of flashbacks and visions he gives his Tribune.
>Valdor only appears for a page, Jenetta Krole barely appears as well. Both substituted by Ra/Diocletian and Kaeria respectively
>No Malcador scenes with the Emperor which I always find fascinating
>Drach'nyen felt like a needless insert

The Ugly:
>How the Emperor thinks of his Primarchs as mere specimens. Could be rectified later on

Official judgement, it has been placed accordingly

>>50572041
The webway gate has a small portion of it, instead of leasing to daemon country, leads to the black library. Two of the stripper companions find this out and one of them says that where Kitten must've been spending all of his time instead of getting lubed for the past 10,000 years.

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>>50572194
Oh that Black library. I was thinking about the one in our reality

>>50572192
>Drach'nyen felt like a needless insert
Drach'nyen itself feels like a needless insert into the 40k itself.

It's super ancient Demon that has an edgy backstory of springing from Humanity's first sin/murder, that only wants to destroy humanity and is so super cool that the Big E himself was scared of him and couldn't kill him. So gets Made into a special magic Mcguffin Demon sword that Just happens to be discovered and used by the Poster boy of Chaos himself, Abbadon, and it's basically the sole reason Abby's power level is above the Emprah's. It's like something out of an Edgy, teen, Fanfiction backstory.

>>50572356
I'm still waiting for the day when Abaddon gets gang raped by Ultrasmurfs and Grey Knights with SoB blood lube now that Matt Ward is working at GW again.

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>>50572548
>implying he won't get rekt in 1v1 against Him- Cato Sicarius

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>>50570561
Best summary of the book I've seen.

>>50572695
Add "fucking Horus and fucking Lorgar" to that and it's a summary of the entire Horus Heresy.
Srsly fuck those three.

>>50572753
lol

>>50571556
>Alternatively, you can read into the various exchanges that Emps has with different people and conclude that his words and views change depending on who he is interacting with (like his appearance).
That gives me this interesting idea, that the Emperor has always been nothing but a reflection of Humanity.
I have no idea where to go with this random thought, but it seems interesting to me at the moment. I'll have to think about it more, see if it goes somewhere worthwhile.

>>50572907
>That gives me this interesting idea, that the Emperor has always been nothing but a reflection of Humanity.
Pretty much it.
IIRC the sections where Emps refers to the Primarchs by their numbers happen when He is talking to his tribune, whom already thinks they were a mistake and openly mocks a World Eater by reminding him how Angron was the only one to not conquer his own world, while Arkhan Land sees him as the Omnissiah and the ultimate scientist, labcoat and all.

pdf?

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>>50572965
Actually, going by what LG said. The Emperor indeed doesn't care about the Primarchs. So the final fight will be rewritten since the Emperor wouldn't have any second thoughts about killing Horus.

Anyone else hate how BL just focuses on gay 30k/Horus Heresy shit recently?

Does it make that much money?

>>50572356
So it's okay for Archaon to have a special super sword known as the "Slayer of Kings" which made him cleave daemons and gods alike but it's not okay for Abaddon to get a similar sword?

Why are you so racist?

>>50573205
What? it's one novel per month. Most of the releases are 40K.

Once AoS season 2 starts, then HH will be buried more by AoS content.

>>50573205
More or less. Space marines are big sellers.

shame the novels mostly suck ass

>>50573222
Uh, I think that wasn't ok either.
Maybe the daemon of murder cannot be murdered, only contained?

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>>50573252

Last Space Marine book id call good was this one.


but its all just short stories which in reality I think BL really shines in.

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>>50573311

Double dubs speaks the truth the book has a story about Kroot eating tyranids then turning into fucking Krootnids and a space marine using the acid spit.

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>>50573252

I find it funny Ultramarines get all this shit but in the end they actually had a solid book series in the end.

>>50573222
It's Not, but Archaon has lost it and gone full Anime Protagonist anyways, so the edgelord sword is the least of his is the least of my concerns.

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What happened to Ciaphas Cain? I know Mitchell barely put work in them and copied shit but they were entertaining reads. We didnt even get an eldar story atleast

>>50572753
I feel like this is a problem. Why is it always just those three?
Why not Fuck Mortarion or Fuck Curze?
I mean sure there all screw up who fucked the imperium but I feel the other traitor primarchs need to have landed blows as brutal as Magnus' plan.

>>50572192
What is the basis of the rankings? For example, what makes Descent of Angels and Fallen Angels so bad? And Reflection Crack'd is just weird, but I wouldn't say it's awful. But it's mostly because I love watching Emperor's Children be catty assholes to each other.

>>50573222
Archaon is covered with magical items including his armor & horse.

>>50573561
So is Abaddon. However, he traded some to the traitor Primarchs.

>>50573501
>Why not Fuck Mortarion or Fuck Curze?
Why not fuck you?
Horus "killed" the Emperor
Magnus ruined the webway project
Lorgar got all that shit started in the first place.

What did Mortarion do besides being unlikeable, or Curze do besides being batshit insane? They could have been easily dealt with.

>>50573781
This. Remove Lorgar, and Kurze is just a pest that needs to be dealt with, Angron's just a rabid dog that needs to be kept on a tight leash until it dies, and Mortarion and Perturabo will piss and moan but they'll still do their jobs.

>>50573781

I stopped reading the horus heresy but this sounds retarded

what went wrong?

>>50573867

It took larger than life characters and turned them into pissy bags of emotions and pettiness.

>>50573867

Warhammer 30k: Soap Opera edition

The horus heresy should have remained as a prologue to 40k and not this shit

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>>50573884
I like the short stories, however. My two favourites as of yet are the one depicting Angron as something more beyond Rage McAngrypants (Lord of the Red Sands), and the one about Mortarion's descent into corruption (Daemonology).

Anything bigger than a short story and they usually fuck up something.

>>50573854
>Perturabo
>Moaning
He was simply bitter. If anything he was one of the most loyal of the Emperors children despite being put through the worst hardships. Had the Horus Heresy never happened Perturabo would've never turned traitor. If anything the "loyalist" Primarchs like Guilliman or Sanguinius would've eventually gone rogue.

>>50573941
>He was simply bitter. If anything he was one of the most loyal of the Emperors children despite being put through the worst hardships. Had the Horus Heresy never happened Perturabo would've never turned traitor.
That's what I said, yeah. He hated his job, but delete Lorgar and Perty would've kept on shoveling shit.

Emps fucked Fourth but I have mad respect for him.

>If anything the "loyalist" Primarchs like Guilliman or Sanguinius would've eventually gone rogue.
Nigga wat.

>>50573501
>but I feel the other traitor primarchs need to have landed blows as brutal as Magnus' plan.
I'm so confused by this what plan?

>>50573941
>If anything the "loyalist" Primarchs like Guilliman or Sanguinius would've eventually gone rogue.
Naaah. It would have been Curze, whom was already going to be censured when the Heresy exploded.
But yeah, Mortarion's and Perturabo's reason for treachery were mostly because they were more loyal to Horus than to the Emperor. I mean, Mortarion's only friends among his brothers were Horus and Curze, and he had already betrayed his foster father (a necromancer, but still) before joining the Emperor.

>>50573981
>>50573959
A lot of the loyalist Primarchs look like they had ulterior motives. Guilliman for example was focused on making his own empire and there's the whole fiasco with Imperium Secundus and what that might suggest. There's also a good chance Sanguinius would've gone traitor because of his desire to hide the red thirst even from the emperor.

Perturabo just seems more like Ferrus Manus in that he would follow the emperors orders no matter what.

>>50573937
Okay, that's awesome.

>>50573186

This triggers the neckbeard.

>>50573186

I fucking cant wait for this shit series to end

>>50573904
THIS.

It should have remained a fucking encyclopedia article that repeatedly said, "There were fuck ups of escalating magnitude by everyone. And Chaos was there."

I did NOT want to know that all this is the result of man-babies not having the stones to shoulder an inconvenience that doesn't even compare to what they've been shouldering for fucking decades of crusading. From all their origins they went through the harshest shit EVER; nothing leading up to or during the Heresy compared to what they suffered before the Emperor found them again.

How can these people, who were given such greater purpose, fuck up that hard. I mean you don't even need Chaos whispering bullshit into their ears.

I was satisfied with the general impression before all this that Chaos was pervasive - it was magical, supernaturally corrupting. Instead, we are told the strongest individuals just mentally snapped for the shittiest of reasons.

If the retards at the Black Library had any fucking sense at all they would only have given one Primarch any character development and told the story solely from his perspective. Just pick one, one guy who would have been our fly on the wall. To me, that person should have been Dorn - the man coordinating the defense of Sol and Terra. Every other Primarch should have just been a name-drop for Dorn just like it was in the old rulebooks that discussed the Heresy. Russ is held up, send for the Khan, Guilliman is besieged, Manus is dead, etc etc.

>>50574025
Imperium Secundus started as a thought experiment that became something damn near necessary, iirc. If you want to punish Robby for thoughtcrime, okay, but I don't see heresy there.

Angel Boy... Yeah, I could see him eventually being the third "lost" primarch if there's been no HH.

>>50574025
Probably the most retarded thing I've read all night

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>>50574218
Let us remember Sanguinius was going to fall willingly if it meant it'd save his sons, and only because that apothecary took the fall on his stead he was saved from becoming THE literal Blood Angel.

>>50573143
or mobi?

>>50573186
It's fine if The Emperor has no hesitation to killing Horus and did not weep for Sanguinus.

The story went that he hesitated and had to thrust aside his compassion to kill him. That is how the STORY of the Emperor goes. If the reality is otherwise the only way to write that properly is that the only way to unify the Imperium and raise him to godhood is to fabricate a reputation of the man worthy of legend.

If they don't have a like 100-page follow-up describing how they create this ridiculous fiction that forms the basis of the Imperial Cult then we will have wasted all our fucking time. In fact, the book of the final battle should just start with the Emperor's last fight. The entire rest should be what happens after.

That's all we need. That is the only thing this series ever needed to provide a detailed look at the inner workings on how the chains were forged that will leash humanity for the next ten thousand years. The Golden Throne, the logistics of the Black Ships feeding the Astronomicon, the establishment of the Inquisition, retaking Mars, the Adeptus Astartes losing much of their autonomy.

They're just going to fuck it all up. They're going to write a fucking story with explosions and shit instead of giving us the sweet boring bureaucratic government-building details that their autistic and most important part of their fanbase wants.

The Heresy was just a fucking sideshow. The real interesting shit is how they clean house.

>>50574251
I like that notion. He had at least as much charisma as Horus, so he might've gotten a Heresy of his own.

Then again, being a champion of Khorne as opposed to all four tends to impair one's oratory skills...

>>50574305
BL is far too up its own anus to ever consider actually accomplishing the original goal of this series (Showing how 40k came to be).

Muh Shakespearean tragedy, muh drama

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>>50574315
I got your back.

>>50573937
See how does ADB write something as good as this but then put all this dumb shit into Master of Mankind? I don't understand why his writing is always a crap shoot as to whether it will be great or not

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>>50574396
Simple.
The longer his writing the more opportunities he has to introduce his daddy-issues.
I don't know why he hasn't written anything about Mortarion yet, considering he hated all his paternal figures and betrayed them both.
Unless Daemonology was written by him. Damn that's a good one.

>>50574164
>Instead, we are told the strongest individuals just mentally snapped for the shittiest of reasons.
Fulgrim's fall has always bothered me the most. He picked up the wrong sword? Thats it? We have Logan striking down Magnus with a Khornate axe yet a Prmiarch falls just like that?

>>50574305
>If they don't have a like 100-page follow-up describing how they create this ridiculous fiction that forms the basis of the Imperial Cult then we will have wasted all our fucking time.
They sorta did that though. Lorgar started it by writing the Lectitio Divinitatus which said the Emperor was a god, then it snowballed from there when Chaos reared it's head, because when there's demons and shit running around, it's easy to say the shiny guy who stops them all is a god.

>>50574366
First 4 books were great.

>>50574366
I don't understand why they don't fucking understand.

I don't give three shits about the Primarchs and their personal issues. Their fall should have been as curt as the gods of Valhalla going to war against each other. It simply happened.

Nobody actually cares about the people who were Genghis Khan or Alexander. They care about the world they left in their wake, about the good they destroyed - that is the tragedy.

I have wasted too much of my love on this universe. It's just so fucking good but they're wasting it. Wasting it on FEELINGS. All I want is my goddamn Warhammer history text book.

How many Horus Heresy books are we up to now? 40+? Forty fucking books and we have gotten NOTHING accomplished that makes this universe richer. It's just faggots stabbing other faggots in the back retelling the stories of Jesus, Roman emperors, and "we want the Game of Thrones audience" pandering. They're just writing a bible or because people have absolute shit taste. Because all they want is to read the fucking stories of the bible again and again and again. The most interesting shit happens in the first six days of the bible but that chunk only takes up the first ten pages.

>>50574164
Only point i would argue would be that they all had it the hardest before or to be more specific Roboute. From what i understand he was one of the first Primarchs found his life before the crusade was rather easy.

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>>50572695

>>50574164
Sounds shifty. I never was so autistic that I took the old index astartes blurbs as the gospel so I've Unironically enjoyed most of the series

>>50574508
>Lectitio Divinitatus
What we need is the Lectitio Divinitatus actually written out, in its entirety. And with red ink the annotations by some unnamed editor, whom would define the Imperium for the next thousands of years.

Just saying the Lectitio Divinitatus exists is not enough. What I want is the minutes of the meeting where they take the book and revise it. Where they all agree that they're doing some of the most evil shit in the world for the sake of humanity's survival. I want a recreation of whatever happened in some dark room of the Catholic church where people revise the gospels.

>>50572356

>It's like something out of an Edgy, teen, Fanfiction backstory.

That describes everything in 40k.

>>50574421
the inferiority complex is real

So does anyone have a link to the mp3?

>>50573502
>For example, what makes Descent of Angels and Fallen Angels so bad?

They're just really shit books with incredibly boring protagonists, anon. And that's coming from a Dark Angels player.

As someone who likes ADB, master of mankind was okay, 4/5.

>>50570561

Its hilarious that the Emperor was only pretending to be father to the Primarchs. It explains some of his mess ups with them.

>>50574788

Amen, brother.

>>50574889
>lorgar writes the imperial creed while serving chaos in order to slowly corrupt the imperium

You read it here first.

>>50574421

Man, Malcador had to put up with so much shit.

>>50572192
>No Malcador scenes with the Emperor which I always find fascinating

As someone who hasn't read it yet, is Malcador in the book at all?

The Primarchs are well written, for human warlords.
The Primarchs are poorly written for super-beings.
No author could write super-beings well.

>>50573465
I imagine shit like >>50573186 is making established authors leery of working for BL.

>>50577100
Malcador was the man who kept humanity together. The emps was completely consumed by plans for the future. The Primarchs were all nursing their private butthurts. Meanwhile, this exceptionally old dude managed to run the council of Terra, form the administratum, and still find time to be master of assassins and collect old art at the same time.

Dude was a class act in a universe of manchildren.

>>50573186
>Retconing William King's fluff
FUCK

That shit forms the basis of everything I know about the Heresy. What sick motherfucker would do anything other than expand on that foundation. It is the fucking word of god. It is still fucking solid because the new shit has no goddamn direction.

What the fuck are they even going to retcon? The Sky Fortress? The siege? Khan taking the Eternity Space Port? That Horus drops the shields willingly? That the Emperor teleports in with Dorn and Sanguinus?

There's nothing to fucking retcon.

This was the first HH book that I read because the empra is in it. It was fairly shitty as far as books go, one dimensional characters and no plot line, the story line didn't reveal anything we did not already know. Took me two hours while skipping the boring sections.

I don't understand why neckbeards are chimping out about Emps showing no feelings for the Primarchs. At this time Emps is having severe regrets for even making the fuckers in the first place. They were supposed to be a tool to conquer the Galaxy and they fucked everything up. He laments the fact that he made 20 godling faggots who go around thinking they are superior to everyone else and lust for glory. Emperor doesn't give a fuck about glory or prestige or human attachments at this point he just wants to save humanity.

He seemed really defeated and broken in the epilogue after the webway is destroyed. He basically said that humanity is fucked now good job faggots no hope left anymore I might as well die fighting Horus now because everything is so shit

>>50572753
No Fucking for Fulgrim, though.

>>50582013
Oh he wishes. But Ferrus is like Uncle Ben or Batman's parents. He always dies

>>50578272
I thought their flaws were because despite all their enhancements they were still pretty human?

>>50573186
kek. I am entertained and interested by most HH books and this much trigger the lore purists bad, so BASED LAURIE.

>>50577315
He appears along with Valdor, Dorn, and the Fabricator-Locum at a war meeting. He says like 3 things then leaves.

>>50581297
/tg/ autists like to complain HARD but there haven't been many legitimate "retcons" from the HH series. i.e. things that contradict a specific piece of the old lore directly.

Right now, the only ones I can think of are:

>Pious being a Perpetual (Perpetuals themselves aren't a retcon btw)
>Horus got the powers to fight the Emperor on Molech instead of just having the Chaos Gods channel it into him
>The Emperor got the ability to create the Primarchs from a bargain with Chaos
>Fulgrim and Angron becoming Daemon Princes during the Heresy as opposed to after


"The Emperor didn't care about the Primarchs" etc is subjective and too vague to be considered one a proper one yet

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Anywhere a poorfag could read this for free?

>>50582364

What if I just hate HH

>>50582364
Alpharius.

>>50582364
>i.e. things that contradict a specific piece of the old lore directly
many sequences of events have been changed or removed entirely

Pretty much everything about the battle of tallarn was retconned, for example. The war in Ultramar was again, entirely different. Nikaea's contents were changed rather explicitly.. and the role of the space wolves in the heresy has undergone a complete reversal.

There a bunch of stuff, but most people aren't "that" familiar with the old (like, 80's-90's) fluff so they merely poke holes in the abysmal writing.

>>50582364
It's not really about retcons.

The problem with the whole Horus Heresy series is that they're touching on content that merits only the most minimal expansion - and the only expansion that could be justified were more encyclopedia articles. If by the end of all this they spend minimal effort describing what made the 40K world as we know it today due to events in 30K, then the effort was meaningless.

Characterizing major figures and introducing new insignificant ones and basically explicitly saying this was all a result of human weakness or complete fuck-ups is something that could be done when there was nothing else to do.

See:
>>50574305
>>50574527

>>50574225
It's true though

>>50579404

Imagine getting manhandled twenty times over by demigods with daddy issues trying to prove a point. The primarchs look like manchilds next to this guy every time.

>>50574262
anyone?

>>50582364
>"The Emperor didn't care about the Primarchs" etc is subjective and too vague to be considered one a proper one yet

I don't think this is what the Emperor truly thinks. He may have said he didn't care about martial glory and cheap sentiment but then take a look at what the Emperor conjures up at the start of the final battle of the book. If that scene doesn't demonstrate that he cared for his "tools" I don't know what does.

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>>50582541
Nothing with Alpharius can be retconned because nothing with Alpharius is ever concrete to begin with.

>>50576083
Yes, Anon. We can internet.

>>50583211
?

>>50573465
Copied shit? Like thematically or in an actual plagarism way?

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Its like gamer gate all over again, everything you love turning to ash in your mouth

>No chance of mankind wining
>ADB is a libshit
>40k is actually some kind commentary on right wing political veiws
>I am to stupid to realise this
>I no longer think i can enjoy 40k

>>50587736
>40k is actually some kind commentary on right wing political veiws
You're right. You are too stupid to realize this. Especially considering it's what 40k has been since its inception. Hell, it's what 40k has been even before its inception because its source material was also that.

>>50582364
>(Perpetuals themselves aren't a retcon btw)
I haven't seen many people claim they're a retcon. 99% of people just say they're dumb.

>>50587419

In im to lazy to write copying he reuses alot of words

>>50587736

Were not really forced to listen to lore changes you know

You faggots are the ones who keep making HH threads

>>50587736
>No chance of mankind wining
Isn't it how it always was? Like, the best end game that the Imperium and humanity had was a literal Deus Ex Machina in the form of the Star Child, and even that was ambiguous before going the way of squats.

I do not get how 2 fucking book series ruined 40k on /tg/ for me.

Any book threads are just Horus heresy now its so shitty and HH causes so much problem among autists who go into power levels or primarch posting.

>>50588000
Currently they have the psychic golden age.

>>50571013
Nonsense anon.

He clearly forced out the ebil daemon with his emperor blessed mind and turned into a super special perpetual negative omega pariah illuminati custodian prime coming to a Age of Emperor starter pack near you.
>special snowflake monsterous imperial characters soon.

>>50588016
WotB's series was blatantly fanfiction, but was enjoyable.

>>50587899
What are you talking about? 40k has embraced right-wing militarism in a similar sense as Starship Troopers. It's not a cynical, detached satire. There's joy in the slaughtering of xenos.

>>50588966
I dunno I dont think its really satire anymore. The Imperium is a terrible place, thats a fact, but holy fuck screw everyone else in this shithole of a galaxy. From the rape happy fae to the soulless robots to the swarms of devouring aliens screw them all.

I can honestly understand why they went full xenos murder.

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Fuck the BL, why can't Thorpe leave us Dangles alone.

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>>50589028
>I dunno I dont think its really satire anymore.
what he's saying is it was never satire

40k was made so you could have guys with skull masks on rocket bikes killing aliens by the truck-load. It was absurdly grim and filled with death because the creators (who were the kind of guys to make their own death metal label) thought that was rad as fuck, not because they wanted to show how horrible the far right could be.

>>50582364
>450 planets got added to Ultramar
>Lion was the real traitor. Or wait, no he wasn't.
>Anything to do with Alpha Legion

>>50589254
It's obvious that the Alpha Legion has taken the Ultramarines place.

>>50572192
>fulgrim
>acceptable

It was the single worst book I have ever had the displeasure of having had shit on the cannon.

Fulgrim himself has less than a full page of dialogue in the whole book in regards to turning against the emperor.
He used the Lair sword for NO REASON.
He had a squabble with Ferrus so petty I thought that it was some sort of inside joke between the two of them at first, until I realized they actually were that patter in the book.

>>50578272
>No author could write super-beings well.

I agree.
Check out R. Scott Bakkers Warrior Prophet series.
He does a pretty good job of writing a super being and even he mostly focuses on characters around him.

>>50587899

Actually, doesn't it show that the right-wing perspective is the most effective one?

I mean, a liberal system would never work in 40K. It would be undermined by Chaos and constant infighting. Humanity would be screwed, and then doomed.

It's only through a ferociously right-wing dictatorship that the Emperor managed to conquer most of the universe. Sure, it went to shit, but humanity is still an incredibly potent force.

The Imperium might not be right, but it's undeniably mighty.

>>50588000

Please. Please, I beg you. Stop bringing up the Star Child. Like Malal, it was retarded and I'm glad it's gone.

>>50573781
Thats what i'm fucking saying.
Why have so many of the traitor primarchs be insignificant goons?
They all should have as big a role in ruining humanities future.
Fulgrim should have fucked with the Eldar and the Webway such that it made the Imperial Webway even less salvageable. Or something.
None of the traitor primarchs should be "easily dealt with" it makes them seem insignificant.

>>50573854
Thats a bad thing.
Perterabo should have done more to hurt the imperium than just kill a few worlds which will repopulate in a couple centuries.
All the traitors should have fuck ups as big as magnus rather than just being generals who killed a lot of people.
What did pert do that crippled the imperiums future? If the awenser is nothing then IMO that makes the whole heresy and their characters seem a little more pointless.

>>50590794
I really wished that they did more with Mortarion. All he does is job and whine.

This is unfortunate because he's tied with Magnus for my favorite Daemon Primarch. I don't know why, and I'm pretty sure it's just shit taste. There is seriously no reason why I like Mortarion, and it honestly baffles me.

>>50590850
This.
Like imagine if we found the emperor had been seeding the gene for potential stable top tier psykers throughout the imperium so eventually humanity would evolve into a more powerful psyker race? What if Mort went around infecting and perverting these guys so when 40k comes around psykers are actual more volatile than they were in 30k?
Like I'm just pulling shit out of my ass but big stuff like this.

>>50590937
The whole "angel of death" aesthetic he's rocking in all the fan art is pretty kickass as well. I REALLY want to see him actually wreck shit, especially since during extreme times of plague Nurgle's power temporarily surpasses all the other Chaos Gods.

>>50587419
his books are formulaic is what the other anons is saying, when you figure out the equation there pretty predictable

>>50590850
At BL Live 2016 they said that there's a Mortarion-centric book planned showing his fleet getting Nurgle'd.

Morty is actually the only primarch to not have his own novel or novella right now.

Note that in this list a "co-star" designation counts as .5

>Lion El'Jonson: 4.5 (Fallen Angels, Descent of Angels, The Lion, co-stars in Unremembered Empire and Angels of Caliban. co-star status in Ruinstorm confirmed and incoming)
>Fulgrim: 2.5 (Fulgrim, The Reflection Crack'd, co-star in Angel Exterminatus)
>Perturabo: 2 (Angel Exterminatus, Crimson Fist)
>Jaghatai Khan: 3 (Brotherhood of the Storm, Scars, The Path to Heaven)
>Leman Russ: 3 (Prospero Burns, Wolf King, co-stars in A Thousand Sons and Weregeld)
>Rogal Dorn: 1.5 (Praetorian of Dorn, co-star in Crimson Fist)
>Konrad Curze: 2.5 (Prince of Crows, co-stars in Vulkan Lives, Unremembered Empire, and Angels of Caliban)
>Sanguinius: 2.5 (Know No Fear, co-stars in Angels of Caliban, central status in Ruinstorm confirmed for future release)
>Ferrus Manus: 1.5 (Feat of Iron, Co-Stars in Fulgrim)
>Angron: 1.5 (Butcher's Nails, Co-stars in Betrayer)
>Guilliman: 4 (Know No Fear, Unremembered Empire, Co-stars in Vulkan Lives, Pharos and Angels of Caliban, co-star status in Ruinstorm confirmed for future release)
>Mortarion: 1 (co-stars in Vengeful Spirit and Path to Heaven)
>Magnus: 2.5 (A Thousand Sons, co-stars in Prospero Burns, Crimson King confirmed and incoming)
>Horus: 4 (Horus Rising, False Gods, Galaxy in Flames, Vengeful Spirit)
>Lorgar: 2.5 (First Heretic, Aurelian, co-star in Betrayer)
>Vulkan: 5 (Scorched Earth, Promethean Sun, Vulkan Lives, Deathfire, co-star in Unremembered Empire, confirmed star in Old Earth incoming)
>Corax: 4 (Deliverance Lost, Ravenlord, Soulforge, Weregeld)
>Alpharius: 3 (Legion, The Serpent Beneath, Co-star in Praetorian of Dorn and 7th Serpent)

I don't think when this series began people thought Vulkan would get the most shit...

>>50591892
It's because they added so much.

The Lion, Dorn, Russ, Sanguinius, Guilliman are the 'Main Characters' of the loyalist gang. They'll of course get attention.
All the other loyalists are side-shows, aside from maybe the Khan, and now Vulkan who got new, previously unseen powers in being 1-up.

The main traitors were Horus, Lorgar, and pretty much distant from them is the rest, with Mortarion, far, far in last place.

Nobody fucking likes Mortarion, because he's lame. Even Alpharius got more info, from being the most vanilla traitor legion.

>>50591892
>MoM explores Angrons nails AGAIN
>Still no explanation for Emperor not helping the TS with the flesh change pre-Magnus
Just as planned amirite guys?

>>50590018
Did you look at Orks and the Imperium? It's a complete in ya face how right wing shit is self destructive at best.

>>50578272
The Primarchs in many novels are stated to be human to a fault.

>>50588045
Which is temporary as the Emperor said eventually psychic humanity will fall as the Eldar did.

>>50590018
>I mean, a liberal system would never work in 40K.

Intrex.

Dark Eldar

>>50576543
>>50573502
Then how the fuck did Fear to Thread make it to Acceptable tier? It's Battle for the Abyss tier and feels like a standard Space Marine action novel with some extra Sanguinus bullshit tacked in to make it 'relevant'

>>50572356
>Abbadon, and it's basically the sole reason Abby's power level is above the Emprah's

I'm sorry but what? Last I looked into it the emperor was obscenely powerful even compared to horus, and the only reason he didn't obliterate horus instantly at the end of the heresy was he couldnt bring himself to kill his son.

How did abaddon, who's smaller and weaker and less experienced than horus even approach that kind of power?

>>50593399
>I'm sorry but what? Last I looked into it the emperor was obscenely powerful even compared to horus, and the only reason he didn't obliterate horus instantly at the end of the heresy was he couldnt bring himself to kill his son.

LG said that he and Alan Marret wanted to rewrite William King's version of the HH since forever but never got the chance since it makes no sense given what we know now about the Emperor and the Chaos Gods. He also said that the Emperor holding back on Horus is no longer canon and it will be changed to something else in the HH series version.

>How did abaddon, who's smaller and weaker and less experienced than horus even approach that kind of power?

The daemon sword that he wields and can draw power from contains a daemon that the Emperor cannot kill or banish. The daemon has the power to kill the Emperor

>>50593434
>The daemon has the power to kill the Emperor
In your opinion.

>>50593452
It ain't. It's the Emperor's opinion. As long as the Custard runs away, the Imperium lives around day.

>>50593462
Kek. He believes in ADB afterword.

>>50593434
Do we know anything about the daemon?

I remember some allusions to ancient human daemon princes that were more powerful than the daemon primarchs and may be older than the emperor, if drach'nyen was one of them that would be okay I guess, but giving a random daemon with no backstory more power than big E is beyond retarded.

>>50593474
It wasn't in the Afterworld. Check the text after the Emperor imprisons it inside the Custard.

>>50593495
Dude, read the novel. It's genesis and origin are explained in detail. Why do you want to spoiler yourself out of reading a great book?

>>50576852
4/5 is better than okay you fag

>>50593511
>great book
Not sure if trolling or just in desperate need of reading more

Doesn't this make Sangy look like an idot? Dying for someone who doesn't give a shit about him.

>>50593583

He doesn't know it and can't read emprah's mind, so no more idiotic than any other sacrifice.

>>50593583
If Sanguinius sacrificed himself for the purpose of the Emperor feeling bad about it later, Sanguinius is really fucking petty.

>>50591892
THIS
How come there are three books about the unknown-in-universe White Scars and 5ish about the Salamanders but not a single one about the Death Guard beyond short stories and the upcoming mandatory Mortarion book.

Mortarion, the Khan of the traitors? Or the pre-30k Ferrus

>>50574490
Everyone who went into the temple was corrupted. So it was the temple + the sword which probably contained a Slaaneshi deamon.

>>50574421
How does this continue and what does Malcador show to Mortarion?

>>50593346
Because that image hasn't been created with quality of writing or writing talent in mind, if it had been FtT would be near the bottom.
But a tierlist for the HH series based on actual literary quality instead of subjective opinions about how it fits into the general view of the setting would cause shitfits as Prospero Burns would be at the top.

>>50578272
The Primarchs are human warlords. They can just bench a bit more than Gengis and Chalemagne.

>>50593823
More words appear in an order that constructs a story.
The Webway Gate.

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>>50590985
And then comes forth Kaldor Draigo and just wrecks his shit.

>>50578272

The Primarchs are normal human beings with super human bodies, anything else and it makes the fluff kinda fall apart.

Also Question:

Who were the loyalists most likely to turn traitor and vice versa?

Personally I think Curze would have oddly enough be the most pure in staying loyal. The only people who had problems with him were their fellow Primarchs, but the Emperor very clearly wanted Curze to be his monster.

>>50593870
So Mortarion knew about the human webway project?

>>50593855
Well for that matter I liked Prospero Burns quite a lot. A also liked a Thousand Sons. But then again I'm not 12 so I don't do Primarch posting or choosing sides in a war between imaginary space men.

>>50593982
Yeah. The main reason he chills out about there being WIIIITTCHES everywhere in the Imperium is that he knows Dad and Uncle Malcador are actively working on a way to get rid of it.
He thinks he's on the right side of destiny and just has to be patient and wait it out.
>>50593992
Good taste anon.

>>50590794
This ain't fucking Power Rangers yet kiddo.

>>50593997
While that makes sense for Mortarion it's kinda weird that he never told any of his brothers or Horus about it. Since Horus having abandonment issues was one of the reasons for the Heresy right? Then again, trying to make sense of the 'why' is kind of an excersice in futility in the HH and it's better in some ways to just enjoy the ride.

>>50593865

Yes, and Emperor made them for certain purposes so why wouldn't they actually be more one-dimensional than ordinary humans for that matter?

>>50588000
>Imperium and humanity
Maybe not Imperium but humanity possibly could get their shit together and "make mankind great again" by going back to skills and attitude that made them interstellar species in the first place.
Going by "dark age of technology" modus operandi, by around 35 millennium somebody would start mass producing reverse engineered necron warp stabilizers and would fuck chaos with them.
By that time demonic corruption and possession would be mostly eliminated as personal gellar fields(that thing that stops demons from entering ships) become part of each house 100 years after heresy, as per "demonic safety in construction act" and another 100 years latter miniaturized version would be part of normal clothing.
Without major ideological shift Imperium is doomed, even finding full non corrupted STC would not help as it's contents would be labelled heretical and not used.

>>50590937

Good for you. I can't disagree more though.

The Primarchs are not Forgotten Realms Gods, they're not Atlas holding the world aloft. They're gene-wrought monstrosities with human souls, and it's their humanity writ large that dooms them. Just like the imperium, and their "Father", the high lords etc.

Humans just can't handle the orders of magnitude that the far future deals in, not when everyone is just as incapable and petty as they are today. Given such influence humans make mistakes that cost the lives of untold billions. The laugh of 40k is not "Absolute power corrupts absolutely" it's more "Absolute power allows absolute ineptitude".

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>>50594060
>Without major ideological shift Imperium is doomed, even finding full non corrupted STC would not help as it's contents would be labelled heretical and not used.
Or the AdMech just takes it and just sits on its ass praying to the STC all day long, because now they've found their bible. No need to improve what's already perfect in their minds.

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>>50593982
No, he didn't. In fact before that scene he was right in front of the unfinished Gate, asking Malcador what it was.

What Malcador shows him was that Nikea was an inside job, not the gate. Apparently, and in accordance to his tabletop rules, Mortarion managed to sneak in by himself.

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>>50573143
It was given to me and so I share it back

>>50593452
A good ice-pick in the eye has the power to kill the emperor.

This isn't Top Trumps, fuck.

>>50593865
Because they're still people. Just look at Michael Jackson and his dad. You can be made to be something, but you're gonna be a whole host of other stuff at the same time. Might complicate things.

>>50594121
>No need to improve what's already perfect in their minds.
AdMech would probably praise STC by building what is written in it. So it might be a "win" scenario for Imperium as whatever tech is contained within STC it was good enough that relatively upstart species managed to hold with it against two genetically engineered species that won against Necrons.

Humanity after discovering FTL was staring in a galaxy with pre fall Eldar empire and rampaging orcs. Despite lower population than both and industrial base than Eldar they managed to thrive and colonize big parts of galaxy. So their tech must have been good enough to at least send Eldar a message:
"Don't try tu fuck with us it is not worth it. Also please consider ordering our newest sentient A.I. fuckbot made by Mars Industries LPP, free wraithbone enhancer pills extra."
And strong enough to protect from orcs.
So compared to Imperial tech, STC would be massive boost, possibly enough to pacify the galaxy.

>>50594134
Am I the only one who thinks the fact it's octagonal is meaningful?

>>50594238
The first iteration of it had eight sides, like the chaos star, and smelled of inciense, so it was sorcerous in nature? I don't know, because it's said to be 300 meters across and I don't know if Titans can really fit through that.

Either way, perhaps it was later reworked, but as I first thought of it as a doorway to the warp rather than to the webway...

>>50582364
>Anton ascends during HH is a retconing


My man, go back and read those Bill King tales. In one of them Sanguinius is pacing the battlements of the Eternity Gates and has a staring content with Daemon Angron.

>>50572907
Thematically, this has been the case since the Emperor started receiving small bits of characterization.

He embodies everything good and bad in mankind. He's ambitious, driven, cunning, and inventive. He creates great things and thinks complex thoughts. But he's also xenophobic and closed-minded, intellectually kneecapped by his own hubris and tribalism. He's capable of both great love and terrible, irrational hate.

40K is a fundamentally pessimistic setting, so the worse angels of his nature ultimately have greater sway over his actions than the better ones.

>>50573937
Angron for world president!

>>50572192
Is it bad that I enjoyed Battle for the Abyss? Granted I was like 16 at the time, but I didn't think it was awful.

>>50594134
>file name

Now I what a parody. It works so well with the gateway portal.

Where do most of you get your pirated books from?

>>50596350
40k general and Horus Heresy General have several Gigas worth of books. Lurk there.

>>50593399
Abaddons been alive much longer than Horus ever was

>>50594194
>So their tech must have been good enough to at least send Eldar a message:

The Eldar didn't care about Humans. They were too weak to give a fuck. No, their tech didn't send anyone a message. The Eldar were more concerned with proto-Slaaneshi influence on their society.

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>>50597776
>The Eldar were more concerned with proto-Slaaneshi influence on their society.
So...they did give a fuck!

>>50597340
Isn't he the son of horus?

>>50572192
>"Official"
Eat shit m8, you don't speak for all of us.

>>50598141
He might have his geneseed implanted, but they are not related in any other way.

>>50574164
>how can these people, who were given such greater purpose, fuck up that hard.
Because deep down, after all genetic mutations and augmentations
They're human
And humans fuck up

Kinda like you, who got butthurt because someone put words on paper that you didn't like
You're human, you fucked up
They were human, they fucked up
Humans fuck up.

>>50574305
>Boring bureaucratic
>most autistic and most important (kek) part of their fan base wants

News flash, the most important part of their fan base is people who pay for the books.
So probably not you.
So you mean nothing to them.
I hope it's explosions just to spite you.

I've drifted in and out of the HH series since it first came out but I'm surprised that quite a few of you seem to dislike ADB. I've read the Night Lords series, the Abaddon book and most recently The First Heretic and I enjoyed them all, no pointless retcons, no one-dimensional protagonists and a refreshing lack of bolter porn. What is there to dislike about his stuff?

>>50598508
>no pointless retcons
Cant tell if bait...

>>50591892
>Mortarion's fleet getting nurgled
I'll pass.
Why can't we get a good morty book from before that?

>>50572192
>>50570561

>How the Emperor thinks of his Primarchs as mere specimens
Seriously? That is just silly. How will they justify why won't Emps just blow Horus the fuck away then?

>>50598604
Dont worry the new Traitor Legion release appears to be ignoring BL completely. So just do the same.

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>>50598383
>You will never be as butthurt as this kid

>>50598604

That is getting retconed now, Emps probably isn't that powerful anymore

Just like

>He doesn't love his sons
>Ollanius Pius
>Abbadon not been a failure

>>50598674
>ignoring BL completely.

wat.

>>50598526
Don't make me feel stupid ;_;

>>50598141
He might be a clone son.
Probably means he has an insanely pure gene seed.