ITT: Shit your players say

>oh, well we can move the game from Thursdays to Saturdays
Cripes, what part of SENIOR DESIGN do you fail to comprehend? Ain't gonna be time to come up with situations and plan a plot, I'm going to be spending every waking moment in the engineering building working with three other people on some kind of land development thing.

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The Purple Ranger has a point.

>>50567443
Agreed. This was on discussion to move to 5e, which as far as I can tell doesn't have this problem.

>>50567486
Ok, long time 5e player here. Few things you gotta watch out for:

-Circle of the Moon Druid is pretty powerful for the first 5 levels. Your druid is pretty much a one man powerhouse able to tank as an animal, Utility Cast, and AoE cast. I don't allow it until the party reaches at least 6th level.

-Simulacrum allows you to create a copy of yourself... that can cast Simulacrum and use 9th level spells. Infinite Wish Combo at 17th level level right there. Just disallow Simulacrums to be able to create more of themselves and you're good.

-past fifth level ignore the Encounter creation tables. They're inaccurate, to the point that even the modules ignore them. You'll find encounters are too easy for players otherwise. Encounter building is more of an art than a science.

-be careful about who gets the Cantrips from SCAG. They can get fucky if you go by RAW.

-use the latest Ranger UA Fix instead of the PHB. You're gimping your players otherwise.

>>50567443
It's difficult in the sense of it's difficult to keep track of all these bullshit conflicting and often pointless rules, skills, classes, feats ect from the assorted books which don't even look like they were intended to fit together

>>50567702
>Circle of the Moon Druid is pretty powerful for the first 5 levels.
-My players don't really pay attention to Moon Druid anyway.

>Simulacrum allows you to create a copy of yourself... that can cast Simulacrum and use 9th level spells.
-Hoooly shit nope fuck self-cloning. Or cloning anyone with Simulacrum.

>Encounter building is more of an art than a science.
-This is something I learned with Pathfinder as well, you really have to make stuff custom tailored to the party.

>be careful about who gets the Cantrips from SCAG. They can get fucky if you go by RAW.
-What's SCAG? Or RAW?

>use the latest Ranger UA Fix
-We ignore default Ranger anyway. Dead levels all over.

>>50567741
I see. But is it problem of the core design or problem that came later with bloat of expansions?

>>50567855
I personally thing the foundation was flawed compared to 5e.
Many of the sorts of abilities that "improve your chances to succeed" are numerical bonuses, which in a DC system meant that if you had enough you can be completely be immune to certain challenges.

Of course 5e isn't immune to this either but it's mostly a high-level thing with the advent of advantage/disadvantage.

>>50567806
SCAG refers to the Sword Coast Adventure Guide, and RAW means Rules As Written.

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>>50567996
I'll keep an eye out then. Thx for the advice

>>50567702
>-use the latest Ranger UA Fix instead of the PHB. You're gimping your players otherwise.
Got a link to that?

>>50569406
It's in the 5e Trove in /5EG/

I'll link all the UA here, you really should download all of them, quite a few are very nice

http://dnd.wizards.com/articles-tags/unearthed-arcana

>>50567394
How is Ame anyway?

>>50567394
When he is about to get his hand chopped off for thievery:
> you cannot because I (rolls dice) have no hands!
that's not how bluff works. that's not how bluff works at all.

>>50567394
I once had a player start writing pornography deacribing a scene I desperately tried to fade to black- in the room chat.

>>50573199
Was it hot though?

>>50573285
No. no it was not

>>50567855
The core design of Pathfinder is what allowed for the problem to exist, and even within the core book, you'll find plenty of pointless minutiae to make your job as a GM needlessly difficult.

Pathfinder isn't as hard to work with as, say, Shadowrun which is all over the place, or Cthulhutech which is a disjointed mess, but once you get past the easy core mechanic (d20+mods=DC for success) it begins to become complicated pretty quickly.

>>50574189
Are you kidding? Shadowrun is much easier to handle than PF.

>>50567806
>What's RAW
Welcome to /tg/, first day?

Don't play 5e, it has no mechanical character options.

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>>50579425
>5e sucks, it doesn't have any prestige classes. Those were the best part of 3.5!

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>>50579606
>incredibly limited feat selection
>overly specific classes that restrict creativity
>weapon choice is literally just "choose the one that is mechanically better than the others"
>player has almost no say in their character's skills
>attributes are only good for a couple things so there is absolutely no reason to have strength on a magician or intelligence on a fighter
I don't even play 3.5e, although even that is a better system than 5e.

>>50579714
5e's got at least one prestiege class, look up the unearthed arcana.

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>>50579714
>feats are no longer necessary to build a good character
>classes with archetypes that replace prestige classes and allow you to play different kinds of characters right from low levels
I can't defend the weapon thing, it's just inexcusable.
>skill points replaced by a background/class selection that allows even low/mid Intelligence characters to be good at many things
>attributes are much more open-ended and improvisation is encouraged, rather than having a table or chart for every little thing

I dunno, I really like 5e and I've been having a lot of fun both running and playing it. If that means I have shit taste, then I guess I'll just have to live with that.

>>50579714
>I don't even play 3.5e,
we could tell by the fact that most of your list also applies to 3.5.

>>50579759
>feats are very limited in that they only grant very minor changes so most people take the +2 attribute instead
Why not have feats that give characters options in and out of combat. Actual interesting feats that are worth taking.
>characters are literally the exact same up until level 3
>skill points being replaced means you have no reason to put points in intelligence if you aren't a caster
>not just giving everyone a reasonable amount of skill points and a more compact and refined list of skills to choose from
>if your class doesn't specifically say you need this one stat there is no reason to have it; it just gives a pitiful bonus to certain skills that are stilll garbage because you don't have proficiency in them

>>50573199
This shit kills me.

>>50577771
Not really, no.
I wouldn't say it's harder like the other guy said, but it's certainly not easier. The problems are not the same, though.

>>50579892
Maybe it was just me, but I had a way easier time with SR than PF, and I did SR first.

>>50572350
i'd say it would be sleight of hand, and a magic trick. Wouldn't fool them, really, but it would be funny to watch.

>>50579714
are we talking core rulebooks? or are we including supplementals like complete scoundrel and all the splat books?

isn't 5E basically in its infancy right now? is it even fair to say half of that before the splat books have even attempted to do anything about those particular issues?

>>50579824
I'm not going to tell you your opinions are wrong, I just disagree with you. 5e has its flaws, yes, but I'm having a lot of fun with it.

>>50567855
It's both, and more. Paizo also hires out, and doesn't do a great job of reviewing the material freelancers write, so you get feats that allow you to instantly kill things, or feats you can't take because their prerequisites don't exist.

Core has holes in the rules that don't make sense. Later editions have holes and conflicting rules that make the game difficult to navigate once you try to use some of the more interesting options. You also have the devs pulling FAQs and errata out of their asses that go against the rules, then changing their minds like, 2 months later. It gets difficult to keep up, honestly.

I think the biggest issue is that the game is quite big. It's nice because you have options for lots of playstyles, but it can also suck because you think things fit a certain way, and here comes this strange rule interaction out of left field to piss all over everybody's parade.

>>50567394
>why aren't we playing [system]
>we should be playing [system]
>if this were [system] you could do that
>[system] has rules for this situation
>you could build that type of character in [system] if you wanted, it has options for it
>can we drop this game and play [system] instead
>why aren't we playing [system]
With how hard this motherfucker pushes his system of choice, you would think he was being paid to do it.

>>50579993
Plus, Paizo's devs have gigantic egos and they absolutely cannot handle being told they're wrong.

>>50567394
3.5 / pathfinder-people always prefer it over 5e until they spend about 2 weeks actually playing 5th, and realize it is vastly superior.
People have this knee-jerk reaction that "simpler" must mean "less advanced" or "easier for entry-level noobs to get into."
And they will kick and scream and resist the idea that they need anything which has been "dumbed down" or that they can't handle a "more difficult" system.
But in the case of 5e vs. 3.5 it is literally just a better system vs. shittier one.

The cool parts of 3.5 are the amounts of fluff. Fluff is not system-specific.

>>50580143
I prefer both systems

>tfw you have nothing to complain about

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>>50580143
That whole clubhouse attitude is fucking endemic in nerdy hobbies. I guess they forgot that these companies are businesses that are trying to sell a product -- making a game easier and more accessible is just good for business because it gets more people playing, and words spreads about how fun and easy it is.

>>50580143
And if there's anything that 3.5 has taught me, its that no amount of fluff fixes a systemically broken class.

Fuck you, truenamer. Fuck you.

>>50578409
Fuck you dude

>>50567394

"Nah I don't like that plan."

- Player with a spotty record for attendance showing up one day and dissolving two weeks worth of group planning and legwork

"Hey guys, you want to play Pathfinder next week?"

- Same player after being told that we were going to go through with our plan and he doesn't get to decide for the group


Bonus quote: "Hey guys, if you like complicated systems, Pathfinder is much more complicated than Shadowrun"

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>>50567443
No, fuck you. Fuck off.

I started with 3.5 and it's still my favorite D&D edition cause I have assburgers but don't you dare pretend it's "easy." Proficiency was a fucking blessing from god in the idea, and it was really just the 4e 1/2 level balancing shit except different. Oh, proficiency sucks, sure, but the idea behind it is good. No, but Pathfinder craps out six or seven shitty mechanics like favored class that were basically fluff and a 10% XP tax no one even fucking remembered because all of 3 people used the RAW XP system in 3.5. But no Pathfinder has to shove extra skill points and hit points up your ass, as well as putting a band-aid on the skill system (which is literally the ONLY decent part of Pathfinder, CMB and CMD are shit).

Fuck it, here's what's good about Pathfinder over 3.5:

> skill system / list change
> dodge gives flat +1 AC
> ranger hit die ---> d10

The rest is total fucking wank.

> CMB/D is stupid shit compared to the original combat maneuver system which worked fine if you just followed the fucking steps, it's issues were lack of being useful due to developers nerfing disarm and trip, which Pathfinder didn't fucking fix anyway.
> Combat Expertise gets nerfed for some godawful reason. They probably thought one of the worst feats in the game was OP because it could be used to prevent auto-hitting. Go fuck yourself Pathfinder. Also, crossbows still suck. Go fuck yourself Pathfinder. Game is an abomination that shouldn't exist. It's better than FantasyCrap or 13th Age, but that doesn't say much.

>>50579824
>not just giving everyone a reasonable amount of skill points and a more compact and refined list of skills to choose from
Nigger, that is exactly what they did.
>if your class doesn't specifically say you need this one stat there is no reason to have it; it just gives a pitiful bonus to certain skills that are stilll garbage because you don't have proficiency in them
That also applies to 3.5

>>50580557
>> ranger hit die ---> d10
That's not even a PF invention, AD&D 2e had that too.

>>50580143
>3.5 / pathfinder-people always prefer it over 5e until they spend about 2 weeks actually playing 5th, and realize it is vastly superior.

I've been DMing 5e for almost six months now and I still don't think it is "vastly superior" or even superior.

I do think it is pretty good though.

> People have this knee-jerk reaction that "simpler" must mean "less advanced" or "easier for entry-level noobs to get into."

The problems with 5e are not in the simplicity of the rules or mechanics. No one has ever said that. Stop strawmanning.

> And they will kick and scream and resist the idea that they need anything which has been "dumbed down" or that they can't handle a "more difficult" system.

More strawmanning.

> But in the case of 5e vs. 3.5 it is literally just a better system vs. shittier one.

Your subjective opinion does not equal objective fact.

> The cool parts of 3.5 are the amounts of fluff. Fluff is not system-specific.

Both of those statements are incorrect.

>>50579824
So now people are complaining that 5e *lacks* MAD all day erryday?

>>50567432
How is anyone supposed to know you work on Saturdays and don't work on Thursdays?

>>50580533
Did you kick him out?

>>50580715

Nah he stopped showing up. We used to call him and he always had some excuse and eventually we stopped calling. Apparently to him the system we played at the table was more important than hanging out with friends.

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>>50580533
Oh, I have one of these in my group, and he's the one friend I know IRL in this game:

>Me: "Well, yesterday, I don't think multitasking playing FF15 and the Mutants and Masterminds game at the same time was working out so well."

>Flaker: "Okay?"

>Me: "What I mean is that it's very hard for me to run a game when someone's attention is split between two things that require significant amounts of focus. It also kind of made me feel that my Mutants and Masterminds game was put on a backburner. I would kindly ask that when we do play the game next session, that you'll be less split with your focus. If your Roll20 is freezing up for a moment, or if you end up being called to do something real quick, I won't get mad."

>Flaker: "It's Final Fantasy. And I had just gotten it the day before."

>Me: "Game is startign at 5:30 today"

>Flaker: Oh man I hope I don't get knocked out for 90 percent of the game and get bitched at for playing a game during the time I can't do anything

Note that this guy had the option of rolling a Hero Point and had forced me to make his Fortitude save for him due to his unresponsiveness. We had talked 3 hours before the game, but it doesn't come to him to tell me of this RIGHT at the time the game started:

>Flaker: "Sorry me and my friend are doing stuff to do a project for his class"

His friend apparently didn't even know I was running a game today and apologized for taking him. I REALLY don't want kick him out, because that'd start a drama explosion I do not need. Best thing I can do is hope that it end up like >>50580757 and he just leaves due to not giving a fuck despite showing so much enthusiasm before.

>>50581159
Just say nothing to him.

>>50579981
>isn't 5E basically in its infancy right now?
It's been out since 2014

>>50581159
how often is this guy incapacitated in game, just as a metric?

>>50581647
frankly, i'm too new to tabletop to know if thats actually a long time for a game system or not.

>>50581657
that was the first time he was ever incapacitated, and that was only because he rolled a 1 on his fort sav and would have failed the maximum amount even without critfail considered. And I still would have let him reroll if he actually was active in the game.

>>50579981
5e has no splats, that's its thing.

>>50581745
there's no such thing as a system without a supplement.

because nothing works as it was first intended. It may not have any splats or anything, but to say it won't get some revision or something at some point would likely be false.

>>50567394
Pathfinder fags love virgin GMs since they get to indulge their powergaming.

Don't let them bully you into being a slut, OP.

>>50581727
In other words, he was being a flake simply because he didn't care about anything but what he himself needed to do, and even then he couldn't properly hold his attention to the game.

At that point, he literally doesn't care and you need to do something about it. Stop griping at him about it. Keep a list of every time he's flaked when his character was up to bat, and when you confront him about it, make sure to emphasize that that is when he was supposed to do something, not "When his character wasn't important".

i dunno how well that'd work, overall, but its better than just letting him interfere with the game for no reason other than his lack of attention span.

>>50579714
>incredibly limited feat selection
This trips up a lot of players of 3e and 4e who are used to amassing a large pile of individually weak feats. 5e feats are optional and always have to be good enough to replace two points of your main ability score. The incredibly situational feats from previous editions would be pointless.
>overly specific classes that restrict creativity
No more so than in previous editions. If anything, each class having built-in space for a kit rather than each kit having to hack away at different parts of its base class makes it a lot easier.
>weapon choice is literally just "choose the one that is mechanically better than the others"
This is true a lot of the time, but it's actually less bad than in previous editions because there are more functionally identical weapons than before.
>player has almost no say in their character's skills
Where did you ever get this idea? The DM doesn't decide your background for you, you know. You pick it, therefore you pick all of your skills.
>attributes are only good for a couple things so there is absolutely no reason to have strength on a magician or intelligence on a fighter
Granted, Int is the go-to dump stat for non-wizards in 5e because it no longer determines how many skills you get, but even back in the day you didn't exactly see a lot of wizards who lifted. The number of times the players in my 5e campaign failed an Int-related check because all four of them have it as a dump stat makes me think they're undervaluing it.

>>50579714
4th was better than both ever will be, 3rd, 3.5, 5th and pathfinder babies are cancer on the RPG community.
And I don't even like 4th that much.

>>50567394
>Nya

Kill me.

>>50581810
That's pretty much the plan.

If he wants to play still, I won't stop him. If he doesn't, I'm not stopping for him. Today's session we will see what he chooses. And if he jumps in, only to try and not pay attention, he doesn't have the right to complain when he gets too far behind.

>>50581762
Splatbooks aren't supplements.

There's a rules errata PDF that's free to download and they release plenty of free UA PDFs with character options.

That said, there's also the Sword Coast Adventure Guide that has a limited number of character options. Volo's Guide to Monsters also has some character options in the form of new races. I wouldn't put them anywhere near the level of splatbooks from 3.PF stuff, though. The UA's are the closest thing to that.

>>50580533
I have dealt with so many people who think that "Complicated" and "Deep" are the same thing

>>50582574
>>50581762
Pardon, I meant to say that splatbooks aren't the only form of supplements.

>Anon, we've talked it over, and we want to say that we don't feel safe having a transperson at the table. If we offend her, she might doxx us or start a witch hunt.
I really don't know how to deal with this.

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"Oh, that sounds interesting. Yeah, I'm down. When's the first session?" x3

Half a month of setup, 3 attempted sessions and the month and a half of delay from the latter, a core group of 2 and the DM make it each time and can't play because we have no party. The other members consistently had stuff come up last minute or dropped out and waited until the day of to say anything.

Nah, it's fine, I've been waiting 7 years to play in this system again rather than run it for once. Just plan other shit and then wait to mention it until the day of. If I wasn't playing a pacifist I'd be tempted to just murder their characters if they ever do arrive. I want to make sure sessions happen but don't want to set up residence up their asses to make them show up.

If nWoD didn't draw so many edgelords and general faggots I'd suggest open enrollment from a FLGS

>>50582289
Be careful not to fall for it.

"Good shit as always"

feels appreciated man

>>50580143
Actually, somebody in my group now likes both, though he favors PF simply for the options. He's fairly new to PF, so he hasn't run into a lot of the pitfalls, though he's playing with a group of more experienced players, so we're doing a decent job of showing him pitfalls and directing him away from them. There's something to be said about both systems, though as 5e gets more supplemental material, I suspect it's going to begin pulling ahead more dramatically.

>>50582621
If you feel that is a ridiculous thing, don't game with them. If you feel you want to continue gaming with the group, kick the transperson. They aren't going to enjoy playing with her, so it's up to you if you want to continue playing with them.

>>50582621
What? What is innately wrong with being trans? Are they an insufferable cunt when they're around you?
>inb4 /pol/

>>50567702
>Circle of the Moon Druid is pretty powerful for the first 5 levels. Your druid is pretty much a one man powerhouse able to tank as an animal, Utility Cast, and AoE cast. I don't allow it until the party reaches at least 6th level.

Moon druids have atrociously low-AC and arent much more broken as a totem Barbarian who takes Half-damage from everything during Rage with a much higher AC and dmg output. They also cannot concentrate on spells in animal form for quiete some time. Im in no way saying Moon druids arent super powerful in early levels but just denying a player to even pick it is stupid, just design the two encounters you expect a wild changeon based on the CR of the transformed Monster not the druid

>Simulacrum allows you to create a copy of yourself... that can cast Simulacrum and use 9th level spells. Infinite Wish Combo at 17th level level right there. Just disallow Simulacrums to be able to create more of themselves and you're good.

dude, simulacrum is most of the time used to replicate yourself so you can go on a suicide-tier mission similar to astral projection. if you really cant get your players to not abuse the spell just disable the Copy to cast simlacrum/wish for simulacrum.

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>>50581159
>Playing a videogame during a session
>Being a passive aggressive cunt and acting like you're the asshole because he threw up his arms, laied down and shat his pants after rolling badly once.
>Start trying to find more things to do knowing full well that you had a session scheduled and put everything in higher priority than showing up for the game.
Yeah. Nah. Boot him. No excuses.
If you're willing to deal with disrespect like this, then frankly you deserve it and I don't feel sorry for you.

>>50583617
>>50583287
Their logic is that if even a tiny percentage of transpeople are the lunatic assholes on tumblr, then it's not worth the risk. Especially since tabletop games tend to attract those types.

I really can't refute that, nor can I blame them.

>>50584071
I would...if not for the fact, as I just explained, it would create a drama bomb that would cause even more shit to hit the fan and cause a fallout between other friends.

It's an option that I am considering in case whatever he's doing when he is there disrupts the game.

>>50567394
>You can't play that.
>Why?
>It's far too powerful for the game we're playing.
>You can just make everyone else more powerful to compensate.

Not a word for word reenactment; for one, the other guy's grammar was a lot worse.

>>50572350
By RAW, an impossible lie is only what, -20? Cast Glibness and then tell Elminster Mystra never existed and he's actually a squirrel.

>>50583617
You'd be surprised how common this is. One of my old playgroups refused a new player for being black, because they liked making black jokes and didn't want him "chimping out" on them (that's actually what they called it, too).

>>50581745
>it's feature is having the devs sit back and suck their own shit instead of producing ANY content based on the assumption that any new content will unbalance the game.

>>50584112
You can absolutely blame them. Even if you're in the 'trannies are all mentally ill' camp, it's pretty shitty to kick someone from a group who hasn't proved themselves destructive in any way.

>>50584112
You have to give them at least one session, or at the very least an interview.

>>50582621
Honestly unless they themselves turn out to be insufferable cunts I don't see the problem. At this point you can either nut up and let it slide, find another group or harangue this one into letting the tranny in, which will most likely end in them resenting both of you for it.

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>>50582621
Frankly, if the *sole* reason they don't want that person at their table is because she's trans, they're being jerks.
If she's hardcore SJW or something and they actually *know* that then I can see why they'd want to avoid it, but assuming she'll behave a certain way is rude. Have they actually met her or are they just making assumptions?

Sadly, ultimately you're going to have to choose between her and the group more than likely. They'll probably just resent her if you force her on them, and she's probably going to feel weird around them if they're all uncomfortable with her. Maybe you could invite them all to a non-gaming social event of some kind, just to see if they get along?

>>50584604
>what is UA

>>50580028

Be honest, [system] is GURPS, isn't it?

>>50580028
That is quite literally every one of my six players. The only reason they're even civil is because they all think D&D 5th sucks, so they just make cheap shots at the rules that nobody contests and enjoy playing anyways.

>My character should only die in battle because of something I did, not because of bad rolls or the enemy getting lucky

He said this after he got his ass shanked by a serial killer in the city they had moved into, been warned about, and had started to investigate.

>>50578409
I have been here for a while and have no idea what thet means

>>50579824
> it has no MAD
> this is an issue
Que?

>>50582621
>Don't feel safe having a transperson at the table
>She might doxx us or start a witch hunt
>"Nah man we're not transphobic, we just don't feel comfortable around trannies because they're all SJWs"
>They respected her pronouns anyway
Damn nigga, that's some powerful stupid right there.

>>50586567
Having stats all have some degree of use regardless of the class allows for more potential for varied builds. Otherwise it's "That guy has two more points in his main stat than my guy has, therefore his guy is just better."

>>50582929

>He's objectively correct
>Better call it bait

>>50586772
This, having options for characters to use all sorts of attributes in battle is great, because it gives the game much more variety. Wise warrior who uses cunning to give himself an edge in battle? Sure. The magician lays a beatdown with his sword as well as casting? Sure.

I actually go all the way and have the mental stats play different roles in spellcasting - intelligence is what is rolled when you attempt to cast a spell, wisdom affects how many spells you can learn, and charisma affects the saves that your targets have to make to resist your spells. That way, you can have a caster who excels in some areas but lacks in others, and fixes the problem of casters being SAD vs martials being MAD - just make them both MAD.

Furthermore, attributes should have multiple applications, so anyone can benefit from them. I tried making my barbarian have decent intelligence in 5e - the problem was, the extra points in intelligence did near nothing for the character, it only affected a sad handful of skill checks that I didn't even have proficiency in (unless I invested one of my VERY few feats on it).

>>50585537
> what is UA

A load of unbalanced horseshit. Merals bitched about bounded accuracy then put in a literal +1 to hit feat because he couldn't come up with anything better. Then said it was better than a feat that let you actually DO something (stun someone on a crit with a blunt weapon I believe).

Oh no, it was just ANY hit, but instead of fixing it to be "only on a roll of 19 or 20" or something to avoid bogging down combat, he ditched it and went to "oh yeah it's weapon focus but now it's INTERESTING cause I said so"

This describes much of Meral's design philosophy. His minute brain can't take two seconds to think of a different way to make a cool idea work so he drops it and goes back to the same bog standard crap that's been dragging down D&D since 2001.

This game is fucking dead. Sure, people play it more than ever, but from a perspective of ever becoming better, it is dead. And Mearls killed it, honestly.

>>50585578
_________________________________________________yes__________________________________________________________________________

>>50587354
most of the UA stuff is cool/interesting, but yeah, the feats UA was hot garbage in july

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>>50586129
Elaborate.
Did the Serial Killer just sneak into his room and knife him, or was there a fight and he lost?

>>50581159
My ex used to play heavily. She did this exact same thing but with fallout 3/NV and Skyrim.

>>50582621
>her
>she

>>50567702

>Moon druids are OP

they're really good at level 2, but they level off almost immediately, and are worse at melee than your Fighters by 4/5. Let them be good for that brief interlude.

>>50586534
RAW means rules as written.
How the fuck have you been here more than day?

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>>50584595
>chimping out

oh jesus christ

you think they were /pol/tards who fell for the mem or were they organically grown?

>>50588812
>you think they were /pol/tards who fell for the mem or were they organically grown?
It was before /pol/ was a thing. They were just douches.

Ended up leaving that group for different reasons. Hated the games they wanted to play.

>>50567702
-use the latest Ranger UA Fix instead of the PHB. You're gimping your players otherwise.

Homebrew the primeval awareness, though. Otherwise you've just given your ranger literal "people radar"

>>50578409
>I'm gonna be a cunt to this guy who doesn't know things!

Years later,
>Why is no one interested in tabletop?

>>50586772
But in 5e that's less of a problem because everyone's going to hit 20 in their main stat eventually anyway

>>50590239
>Why is no one interested in tabletop?

Said no one, ever.

>>50590239
>i haven't lurked long enough to know the single term shared almost unanimously by all systems and attempted to google it.

Like, yeah, there's no need to be a dick about it, but its also not like anyone was trying to hide what it was.

>>50586824
Was your 'objective' to be a faggot? If so, then yes, you're objectively correct

>>50590627
>>50588779
I kinda forgive shit like this. It's not like people write "Well, Rules as Written, (Or RAW as I like to call it)" and seeing them separately doesn't always make the terms click.

Hell, for a long time I thought RAW just meant strict, raw interpretations, which is kinda right, but Rules as Written is more explicit

>>50591040
like i said, there wasn't a need to be a dick, but at the same time google has all the answers in the world.

I think its more that it feels lazy than that people dislike the question, in and of itself.

>>50590911

>No arguments, only memes

>>50580028
As [system]-anon, I have to apologize for my bullshit, but I just can't handle it. We've been playing these boring goddamn paizo adventure paths for three fucking years now! Not a single one of them has been entertaining enough to even hold us to, like, eigth level before we switch again. When nobody is going to play anything but this piece of shit system, I have to start explaining why people SHOULD play a different system. It's fucking insane. Luckily, though, you won't have to deal with me specifically, because I'm quitting Pathfinder now, and will be going into RP hibernation until I can find a group of players who know how to RP, make interesting characters, and aren't afraid of some fucking numbers or leaving their prized turd of a broken ass system.

>>50592857
You make no sense. [system]-fag is the jackass that refuses to play anything but something, and you see it most often WITH Pathfinder.

>>50569474
What are you supposed to do with it after level 5?

>>50579824
>>skill points being replaced means you have no reason to put points in intelligence if you aren't a caster
Until your DM drops you into separation puzzle chambers and your character shits itself and dies, because he's at 6 INT, or you encounter your first ability drain enemy/disease/poison and your character becomes feral.

>>50594109
There is no ability drain in 5e, int is the dump stat because 5e tried to fix saves by giving every stat it's own save, but then just made every god damn save in the game a dexterity, constitution or wisdom save anyway

There is a grand total of 2 monsters in the game with spells or powers that make players take an intelligence save, illithids and intelligence devourers. Because everything else that would be an int-save is attributed to wisdom instead

>>50567394
>"I know that dagger is trapped and I will likely die but I grab the dagger any way."

>>50567806
This. I reflavoured Simulacrum to only be able create an NPC of CR10 or less rather than player characters.

>>50584876
I have never met a faggot who was not a petulant self entitled cunt.

If I ever meet one I will stop being a (((bigot))).

>>50584627
You kind of have to be on the right wing to know the fear of having controversial opinions on the current year.

>>50584678
Freedom of association, faggot.

>>50584526
A successful bluff is not mind control. Succeeding a bluff with a blatant lie only means you've convinced the NPC that you believe what you're saying - which if the lie is bad enough just means they think you're nuts.

>>50591122
>like i said, there wasn't a need to be a dick, but at the same time google has all the answers in the world.

Google has the answers, but you have to know how to find them. Typing "RAW" alone into Google is not going to help. You need to know in what context you're looking for it, and if you're really new to something, you're probably generally lacking in context.

>>50590911

You sure showed him, Anon.

>>50594205
>>50594109
This is why I'm doing more homebrew saves.

>Charisma for personality-rewriting events in some cases, or to resist supernatural compulsions.
>Intelligence for mind fog, brain eating, ghost-hacking.

"Wisdom" is basically just a d&d name for perception so I'm only using it for perception-based saves. Unless someone can correct me there?

>>50580617
>strawmanning
Can we get an international, inter-site ban on this word? People use it all the time and clearly have no idea what the fuck it means (as illustrated by this post).

Just because those aren't the arguments that you would make doesn't mean that those argument aren't made. Literally reading this thread would prove that they aren't strawmen.

>>50583861

>if you really cant get your players to not abuse the spell just disable the Copy to cast simlacrum/wish for simulacrum.

That is, literally, the exact solution he proposed, *in the text you quoted*.

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>>50580143

>>50588812
Where do you think /pol/ came from anon?
/pol/ WAS organically grown. It doesn't need to convert anybody because they're already here

>>50594205
Yeah, I've been rereading the MM more closely since I'm working on a system hack, and some of the saves that you have to make are really suspect. I'm really not sure how they chose them desu

>>50580143
I'll pass on 5e until it gives me as many options to build my martial character as PF's Path of War options have.

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>3.5/PF is awful.
>Then don't play it.
>But it's awful!

These threads need to stop lol. You're better than this guys.

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>>50597154

>>50580028
Hi Marshall

>>50580601
2nd edition best edition.

>>50597041

Indeed. They were just scattered across the reaches of the internet and on less mainstream sites. 4chan made them think there was a place to safely post unironic bullshit (which is kind of true) and they just gathered here.

Just like furries have been with us forever, but the internet (and certain wesbsites in particular) helped them coagulate into a more coherent whole.

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>>50567394
>I hit it in the face
It's 60 ft tall, how are you gonna reach its face?
>Ok I'll just hit it on the head instead then
You're a melee character...
>Yeah I'm gonna hit it on the head with my sword.

>>50597660
>whacking the tarrasque's toes does just as much damage as bashing it in the head
This always bothered me

>>50579824
>Why not have feats that give characters options in and out of combat. Actual interesting feats that are worth taking.
Compared to 3.x, I actually really like 5e's feats. Just wish there were more of them.

>>50583617
The only reason any of us would know is because you have so little personality it's the centerpiece of your entire existence. In fact, If something else had been the 'it' oppressed minority this decade, you'd probably be that instead.

Short of shit billionaires complain about, it's the most first-world-problem anyone has ever fucking come up with.

You don't see shit like this from people with plenty to do with their lives, or who are too busy to come up with crap like that. It wasn't a thing when you spent your day farming potatoes and raising your kids. You don't see this shit from actual hermaphrodites or people born with neither sex.

Little asshats with the entire world dropper-fed to them for the first fifteen years of their lives are feeling so empty inside that one day after one of them decided that it must be because he was obviously born in the wrong sex's body - and not because of general ennui - and when they saw just how much attention/controversy it got them on the internet, every other little silk-mittens hugbox child decided that was totally them too, in that same exact "me too me too" way they also exclaimed that the kid was totally them when they read ender's game, or more recently the hunger games.

And somehow EVERY SINGLE LAST ONE of those fatass neckbeards demands we pretend we're hearing and seeing a pretty young girl when we're gaming on skype - and I don't mean their character.

Anyone who was actually stuck with such a problem wouldn't fucking make it every other sentence, and even less a primary piece of cover to dive behind everytime you call them out on being an asshole.

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>>50598196
So much wrong in one post. It's like a singularity of wrong.

>>50598242
I'm not a fan of the personal pronouns crap, you might say.

>Do we have to pay double to resurrect the pregnant lady?

>>50598330
>no, the baby's a status effect until it's born. Careful with that heal spell tho

>>50598306
So much is informed by activists speaking on behalf of others, and reactions to their provocations--altogether loathsome. Maybe it's different because I tend to GM, but I've not had any complaints or a shortage of players.

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>>50595674
>Succeeding a bluff with a blatant lie only means you've convinced the NPC that you believe what you're saying - which if the lie is bad enough just means they think you're nuts.
This is the reason why so many players stab first and not ask questions ever.

>>50584876
This is the most reasonable answer.

TBF a lot is going to depend on how her being trans was brought up.

>>50584627
Transsexuals ARE mentally ill. Gender dysphoria. It's why I don't have a problem with my government funding SRS because honestly at the point the become eligible for it they've tried everything else and it's just the most effective treatment.

>>50580648
because he's an adult and used his big boy words to tell them his availability when they started planning a day to meet? Just a guess

>>50567394
>Me: okay new player, it's your turn what do you d-
>New guy: I wanna cum on him

[Spoiler]help

>>50583617
>What is innately wrong with being trans?
You are dealing with people who are so batshit insane that they think if the cut of their dick and start taking hormones they will be happier than they were before because the grass is greener on the other side.

And you are seriously asking what is wrong with anon?
Nigga, I lived for half a year in Toronto and in these 5 months I met a total of 9 trannies and NONE of them had any personality besides "I am trans". NOT. A SINGLE. ONE. They are the biggest Lulzcows and self-absorbed dramamagnets you can imagine.

>>50598776
>I met a total of 9 urbanites and NONE of them had any personality
That goes without saying.

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>>50598776
I've lived in Toronto for half my life and I've yet to meet a single one of those crazies.

Maybe the problem lies with you. What kind of company do you keep?

>>50598837
The worst kind. College students.

>>50598672
>what do you MEAN I can't just say I owned the castle all along??? Welp time to slaughter everyone inside! Augh can't believe you're making me do this

Okay but in all seriousness I once had a DM that treated persuasion in 5e as flat out mind control - even towards other players - and the results were disastrous.

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>>50598776
>I met some shitty people in SJW Central and that proves that everyone who shares a demographic with them is the same!

>>50598776
That's been my experience online and in both Hull and Laval as well, at university.

Those that have gone through with it - as a warning to those thinking of doing this on here - have all been either no happier or worse off than before. Not usually a "I want my bits back" though, more a "so, still feel completely miserable" way.

Happiest 'trans' I've known is a pretty swell dude; He's a transvestite. After he came to terms with the fact that he just prefers women's clothing, the angst just melted away. He happily jokes about that stuff nowadays too and is a blast at the table.

>Dude I will rock that chinese dress so hard you'll get hard too
>Naw man, stuffed bras are for faggots. This shit's all natural pectotits my friend
>If you're gonna wear those tidy whities, you might as well just try on some panties. If you're gonna goldbond your balls anyways, the silky girly stuff is where its at.

THAT is a happy man.

>>50598914
No but it *does* disprove the "we're all purely victims here" mentality that some of them do espouse.

Sure you'd want a wider sample, but it's a very tiny fraction of the population, and when all nine of your datapoints are all showing the same thing, that's a bad start.

>>50598776
Albertan here, can confirm >>50598823 that the problem isn't them being Trans.

It's that Toronto is shit.

I know a couple of Trans people here, both pre & post. You would never know because they're, you know, focused on passing. Unless what they have/had in their pants becomes relevant they don't really mention it.

In closing, I would just like to say that Toronto must be destroyed.

>>50597005
>Monopoly
>Complicated rules

It's fucking counting.

Who the fuck actually thinks Monopoly is complicated? You count and look at cards for the numbers you count to.

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>>50598973
>Toronto must be destroyed
Now there's a hook for a campaign.

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>>50598854
Well, that's to be expected then...
>be slav in slavlands
>never seen tranny in my life
>go back to college after taking a year break
>have very first class of the very first course
>come early for class, sit at random place
>rasp deep voice asks if her can sit next to me (language doesn't have gender neutral "I")
>nod
>brain catches up that the there was something off with that sentence
>take a glance
>lanky punk bitch with small tits in entirely too skimpy jeans
>obvious Adam's apple
>tfw

>>50599106
All I'm getting from this is that trannies disproportionately value education.

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>>50598196
>>50598306
Everything you've said there is conditional, and most of it is pretty disingenuous. You should go back to argument school so you can learn how to construct a position.
Here's an idea, today why don't you try reading about book instead of watching 3 hours of Milo's ebin takedowns?

>>50599106
At least it could sorta look like a punk bitch.

First one I met in college sounded like Moe from the simpsons and looked like Radar O'Riley. Thinning hair and all.

>I'm a girl you know
>Riiiiiiiight.

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>>50599106
>once a transexual person waned to sit next me REEEEEEEEEEEEE

what a pointless story

>>50582621
It's fine if you agree or are neutral about it. My group has a strict no "weird person I can't be bothered to change my habits for" policy and it's pretty good.

>>50599190
Who?
>no such trip in this thread

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If you really want to get to the bottom of the theological basis for trannies, say to include a mystery cult in your game, read emperor Julian's Hymn to the Mother of the Gods, and Catullus' poem #63.

>>50599256
Fuck that shit.

See here >>50599204
No weird people at tables is the best policy. What's weird? Whatever makes me uncomfortable. That could be trannies, furries, mormons, people who like jazz, or Czechoslovakians

>>50599292
>Fuck that shit.
Afraid of what the knowledge might do to you, friend? The goddess is said to drive men to madness. I don't blame you.

>>50599292
cool, enjoy your safe space !

>>50597154
I'll stop hating it once the fans.defense force stop shoving it in my face and outright lying about why it's good. Because it's not good.

>>50599146
Or that education makes people more likely to turn into tranny. Considering the plethora of other derangements one can acquire through our education system, I would even say it's the more probable interpretation.

>>50599195
Well, if they were smart enough to wear scarf or thick collar and keep their mouth shut, I totally would. I-I mean, would get fooled, right?

>>50599202
Hey, bear with me, it's the first tranny I've seen in ever. It's not THE most rare encounter one can have in my country, but it's up there.

>>50599321
Gonna be honest: I've already made up my mind and can't be convinced otherwise, so I also can't be bothered to spend time reading something that I've got no interest in.

>>50599367
Roman paganism is interesting in its own right.

>>50599414
Not into that. I prefer the sagas.

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>>50598895
All day every day.

>>50599327
I will. It is the safest space.

>>50580143
I've played/DMed 5e for about 2 years and yeah it's a great system, probably the best D&D since 2e but it just doesn't scratch the itch the way PF does in the crunch/rules department. Sure I have to wade through wishy-washy errata from the braindead incompetent fucks at Paizo to get to the bottom of how things should operate, but it's a necessary evil. The content drought in 5e is a killer and kills my desire to continue running the game if all I can expect from the system is a fluffy splat every year with a small handful of character options. I'm at the point where I've seen every character concept mechanically possible and the spark during chargen just isn't there anymore.

Now I'm not saying the MASSIVE amount of poorly tested/unedited Paizo flooding is the best thing in the world, but I prefer it to what we have to deal with in 5e. At least the options are there, and the backwards compatibility with 3/3.5 is very nice as well. Fucking nightmare of a game to run and keep balanced, but I prefer it to the constant RAI on the fly 5e style of play.

>>50567702
The only thing to watch out for in 5e is multiclassing.

Jesus christ the shenanigans you can get into when dipping into a lot of classes.

>>50596879
Wisdom should also be for sanity and in general for shit of not losing your wit when the world is fucking with you.

>>50599513
Does the UA help at all or naw?

>>50598973
>Toronto must be destroyed.
I concur. Toronto and the rest of southern Ontario needs to burn. Much more comfy in Nova Scotia.

>>50599360
Lying not to just us, but trying to drag new people into it. That's the big problem, they're trying to shovel their cancer off onto others.

>>50568055
This picture rings a bell. What's it from?

>>50603247
Ringabel did nothing wrong.

>>50595389
I have met good people of all types. I am sorry you have not been as fortunate.
Sturgeon's law applies to people too.

>>50582621
They're right to be afraid, those people are insane. If you don't think so you haven't met enough of theme

>>50599292
O.k. I stopped being a LDS a couple of years ago due to clash of beliefs, but even I'm pretty sure if you have a "Mormon" that wants to play tabletop games, they're not a Peter Priesthood/ Molly Mormon. I believe that, while they don't outright refuse it, the LDS church uses the excuse of "You could be doing something constructive with your time"

Are there annoying, Jehovah's Witnesses level people in that church? Yes.

But they'll be the ones busy planning spaghetti dinners at the ward building, keeping Saturday open for scripture reading and not much else; planning it so their 7 kids have nothing to do but Young men/young women, school, and church trips.

They're too busy for "Deindes", so I don't think you have to worry.

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After remembering something monumentally stupid they have done in the past

>can I retcon this? It doesn't make sense that my character had done this. THIS is what they would have done instead.

>>50603247
It's Ringabel from Bravely Default

My players are mostly good, with the possible exception of one guy who keeps asking potion shops in highly public areas for poison "strong enough to knock out huge animals," and then gets annoyed at me when they tell him he needs a license for that kind of thing.

>>50605510
This or retconning that "no, I was actually over here" whenever something happens to another party member so they can be a part of it.

We ended up eventually having to start mapping and moving figures around a town map to keep track of where we are because we had a quantum Cleric who was somehow in 3 or 4 places at the same time, depending on where interesting stuff was happening.

>>50582574
Dont forget EEPC, some of the most fun spells are in there, plus goliaths.

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>>50606195
>because we had a quantum Cleric who was somehow in 3 or 4 places at the same time, depending on where interesting stuff was happening.

Fuck me that's funny.

>>50584474
Every heroes unlimited game i have ever ran has thus duche at the table.

>>50599106
So did you guys bang or what?

>>50599536
Multiclassing is such bull shit, "I spent my whole childhood learning to a wizard, at a wizard college " , reaches level 5 , "im going to splash a level of monk, they also train from a very young age in twmpkes and have a whole ideological belief I didnt have for my whole childhood or character progression, next level ill magically become a priest too cause you learn that on the job adventuring, enough to warrant a god granting me powers, ohh and I know history suddennly"

>>50606195
I'm pretty sure you talked about them before. Do you have a screencap?

"For part of your loot you get this (description) ring. It is clesrly magical but you are unabke to discern it's abilities, though you are aware that your employer may know.
Sorc: "I want it!"
Cler: "We don't know what it does yet, it may give bonus strength for all we kmow."
"You also get this +2 bow"
Cler: " well, our ranger is the only one who can use bows. So let's give it to him."
Sorc.: " how come he can call dibs but I can't?"
Fuckin kill me now.

>>50597005
>Monopoly
>Complicated
I'm sorry, what?

>>50598374
>>50598330
Underrated

>>50599005
Honestly, it'd be fun to run a generic modern system, strand players outside Toronto with naught but the clothes on their back, tell them what needs to be done, and step back and watch the chaos.

>>50579714
Honestly couldn't tell if this was about 5e or 3.5. But (you) got me anyways

>>50599001
The rules of Go just tell you where you can put stones down and how to score.

Monopoly uses dice rolls, money management, two sets of random cards to draw from, a jail mechanic, whatever the hell Free Parking is, Go, various sets of properties, rent, auctions, building houses, building hotels, rolling doubles, railroads, utilities, a tax space, and I'm sure I forgot at least one thing.

tl;dr, Monopoly has a lot of variety within the game compared to Go.

You're doing a lot of "counting" but there's some level of management involved, but this is somewhat moot when chance is the dominating factor of the game. Meanwhile, the rules, because of all of the game elements is actually much more complicated.
Go just has a small handful of rules, but there are a lot more nuances on the part of the players that affect how any given game turns out.

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>Posting skype logs on /tg/

>>50588812
My group uses the term 'chimping out' regularly. It even has a very specific context. It's weird.

>>50608923
I think I know what you're talking about, and that was someone else with a similar experience.

>>50609323
Complexity is not depth.

>>50612366
Not that anon.

However.....

Yes, Go CAN be considered a complex game. But by the same notion, the other guy is right. It's rules are extremely simple, it's the games "Scale" that makes it complex. You're reply could easily be twisted by pointing out that, by the same virtue, Tic-tac-toe could be made just as complex by giving players a 20x20 grid to play in. Because they're essentially the same game, but still.

Monopoly doesn't derive it's purely from its rules, and I think that may be why he thought lowly of your go comment. By adding a dash of "realism" by making dice rolls, modifier cards and board modifiers, it keeps the game fluid, which is probably what he's trying to get to.

However, never get the person running a household and/or with a economic mind playing it. My family of 6 got BLOODTHIRSTY playing that game. Mom still usually wins, though.

>>50612525
In a similar way, Go on smaller grid would probably be far less deep a game.

>>50567394
>PF isn't really difficult except for everything but the fluff
Dis nigga.

>>50612525
>Tic-tac-toe could be made just as complex by giving players a 20x20 grid to play in
Tic-tac-toe on a 20x20 grid would be literally unplayable unless you altered the win condition.
>they're essentially the same game
Are you actually familiar with the rules of go?