/STG/ Star Trek General

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>>50557031

The Quantum Phase Catalysts set comes from the mission Sunrise, which is part of the Future Proof arc. I believe you have to be level 60 to do the mission. I'd get the Jem'hadar or Breen set for now, or if you're really ambitious, you could try to get the entire Solanae Hybrid Technologies set (a good all-round set - but the mission is super long; mission is A Step Between the Stars in the Dyson Sphere arc) until you can get either the Quantum Phase Applications set from Stormbound (also in the Future Proof arc) or a rep set.

Other than that? Tactical consoles in your tactical slots for the energy type of your choice (probably phasers though if you want to use the Quantum Phase Catalysts set). All your weapons should either be phasers, with or without a single torpedo.

Emergency Power to Weapons III is a must if you can slot it, as is Fire at Will II or III (depending on how powerful your tactical stations are). It's kind of stupid how powerful FAW is, but if they nerfed it, it would be the low-dps people who suffered, not the guys chasing the deeps.

To get similar performance out of torpedoes you have to know what you're doing, build for it, expend about twice as much effort, and be a damn good pilot to boot.

>>50557312
Ahh ok, that's probably why I don't remember that set, I've not touched the Future Proof Arc in a long time, I'll definitely grab it though. How is the Temporal Set? I've not yet gotten around to getting it on my main character yet.

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>>50557351

I don't have the Temporal Rep set yet, but it looks quite nice for exotic damage/torpedo setups. I've been putting off all rep gear projects until my Temporal alt can unlock the gear upgrade (it doesn't help that I've been a bit lazy about doing the reps on him either - but he's almost there! Tier 3, and churning along).

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While I know the thread named the USS Isle of Misfit Toys the Ark Royal, I've been leveling a 23rd Century science officer with that as my Constitution's name.

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Why does the Xyfius pull off so many shields so well? It's almost lewd.

I bet Andorians make some pretty good death metal.

>>50557742
Because they actually paid attention when uv mapping the various shield skins. Unlike the Nandi, which seems to have been a rush job all the way through.

>>50558872
>>50557742
As far as visuals go what do you think the best shield skins are?

I'm quite fond of the Breen one for the simple reason that it makes the ship look like it's a patch work beat up wreck.

You put it on a 23c ship and it looks old enough to have come from 23c by the long, long road.

For added fun give it Sol Impulse Engines so when you move it makes it look like it's on fire.

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>>50558934
Romulan ships generally look well with the Reman skin. And actually a fair few of the "modern" Federation designs work with it too. Kind of puts me in mind of Reman built forgeries of the real things.

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Bumping with sleek ship.

>>50560273
I will admit that the Vorgon ships where sexy.

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>>50558934

I rather like both the Protoype Reman and the Breen one. Ultimately though, I rather like the Tholian rep shield. Gives a ship a grey, scaled, slabs of armor look to it.

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Who loves these dear little death traps? Because I've got some fresh screenshots hot off the presses for my T1 Forever challenge character in her Oberth, the U.S.S. Carl Sagan, NCC-671.

>>50562560
So how often does she get blown up?

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>>50562629

Not as often as you might think. The character is an engineer, so that helps.

>>50562687
Based Miracle Worker keeping you alive.

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>>50562694

Don't even have it yet. Just got to 20 with this character. But yeah, once I have it, Miracle Worker is going to be my go to "don't you fucking come apart on me!" power.

>>50562560
I like the name. I'm just not a fan of the Oberth. I thought she would have made sense as a civilian ship, but as part of Starfleet she seems to small to carry out the majority of scientific assignments.

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>>50562749

She's pretty much the "when you need to ferry people around and do some light surveying" ship. I don't think they were ever mean to fight, as seen in STIII when Krug's gunner accidentally destroys Grissom.

STO, however, is a different matter. The only T1s better than the Oberth are the Andorian one, and the B'Rotlh. And I'd argue the Oberth is neck and neck with the Andorian ship, statwise thanks to Sensor Analysis.

It's weird that she's got such good stats for being a T1. The Miranda should, by all rights, have more firepower and be able to take more damage... but Sci ships have that shield multiplier, and SA, and the Miranda has literally nothing. Not even cruiser commands.

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>>50562850

I suppose we can trust the C-Store page for the Oberth. Decommissioned before the Dominion war, re-activated because "modular ship design" techniques allowed them to be refit for 25th century service. So, I guess they're not mint 2380s.

Still begs the question of why the Miranda is inferior? Maybe they (in-universe) felt she didn't need the upgrade because she was adequate as she was?

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>>50563132
>>50562850
No love for the Miranda I'm afraid. I suppose it wouldn't make sense to not have them exploding every 30 seconds.

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>>50564390

Oh well. During the Galorndon Core mission my Oberth blew up a bunch of times. Damn nakhuul.

>>50564390
You know there should be a character perk where you can summon Mirandas or Birds of Prey depending what you are playing. To do nothing else but to be hostile fire magnets and hoping they damage near by enemies with warp core breaches.

>>50564780
We call that Fleet Support 1.

>>50564857
And that summons a battleship.

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Galorndon Core: the shittiest planet with the greatest name.

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>>50564780

If they ever make a T6 Miranda class, she should have a console that summons a fleet of Mirandas. The console should be called "Light Cruiser Command Codes" and the active power could be called "Sisters in Arms". Effect? Summons a shit ton of Mirandas whose damage scales with yours (and phaser consoles), which when they reach 0 HP, either they explode in a large radius, or use Ramming Speed at their target.

For each one that dies, the entire team gets a bonus to damage resistance and shield hardness called "Sacrifice of Angels".

>>50564973
iirc it was a Klingon world in Klingon Academy. Besides Praxis, it was the only other source of dilithium in the Empire at the time. Until that p'taq Melkor promises it to the Romulans, only to destroy the system in a vain attempt to defeat Chang. Hence Praxis becomes even more overworked than it already is.

>>50565146
Never mind, I'm thinking of the Tal'Ihnor Gates

>>50564893
Not Fleet Support 1, Fleet Support II and III summon the bigger guns.

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Anyone able to point at a random shit to find whilst exploring generator/set of tables?

>>50562749
>she seems to small to carry out the majority of scientific assignments
Why would it be too small? All you need for science would be sensors and some small labs (even the ones on Ent-D weren't that big). Science is not EXPLORATION!, it's science.
>Enterprise goes out and discovers stuff
>Oberth-chan comes to do long-term science

Man, the new Star Trek movies aren't what I'd call great, but I really enjoyed Beyond. Plus Jaylah is the ultimate alien waifu.

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>>50566908
If this doesn't exist, maybe we should make one?

I mean it's basically just a themed random encounters table. Doesn't really need more than a sentence per entry. A lot of it could be just taken from scripts or rejected ones like image related here.

>>50568941
Justin Lin actually managed to make the Situation and characters feel like Star Trek, even if it still was mostly an Action movie and I appreciate that, hell even in Context the Bike Scene isn't as stupid as it was first presented.

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>>50569573

I seriously need to watch it. I've been putting it off because I can't stand Chris Pine, and the other two movies drive me to fits of rage. 2009 is one of the few movies that I can never enjoy.

Going in blind to the theater was a bad idea with that one. I should have done my research and set my expectations lower. At least I can watch Into Darkness and like it for some of the good ideas, and hate it (in a good way) for all the stupid it dumps on said ideas.

>>50569671
Really? I am the complete opposite, I enjoyed 2009 and thought it was a decent setup to an alternate timeline, then I went and saw Into Darkness and came out fuming mad, still get mad, because while I can deal with the shitty setup to pull Kirk out of the captains seat so we can kill Pike, to put Kirk back in the captains seat. That sudden tonal shift when Kirk goes to Engineering and it immediately becomes a reverse of Wrath of Khan like a Poorly done piece of Fan-Fiction? At that point the creativity and good points of the middle section of the movie become so irrelevant to me to the thirty minutes the movie decides to take to be un-creative and Ape wrath of Khan, AND try to imply its better than Wrath of Khan.

Like, holy hell I see red just thinking of that movies God Awful end.

>>50569573
Is German your native tongue?

>>50569809
No, but I still felt Beyond was more Star Trek than the two movies that came before it.

>>50569823
I agree with you. I asked about German because you capitalized so many nouns in the previous post.

>>50569833
You know, I just noticed that now that you've pointed it out and I have literally no idea why I did that.

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>>50569753

Let me preface what I'm about to say with this:

2009 is the better movie. It's well paced, has incredibly well done special effects, and I feel many of the actors brought their A game.

However, Pine is garbage. In everything I've ever seen him in, and I can't stand his smug, frat-boy face. I have a similar hate for Michael Cera, for no reason I can adequately explain.

My issues with 2009 are with Abrams. He has zero sense of scale, and zero sense for the universe he's playing with. Nero fucks off for 25 years for no good reason. His ship destroys 40 something klingon "warbirds" despite the fact that the Kelvin was able to disable the Nerada for at least a little while by ramming it.

I can go on, but I think most of my gripes are a matter of taste, and the fact that TOS is my favorite Trek series. I was introduced to Trek through reruns when I was very, very little (pre-elementary school), and as a result, I'm more than a little invested in the characters and universe (possibly to my detriment where remakes are concerned - it's entirely possible I'd never have given any remake/reboot/alternate universe a fair shake, and I acknowledge that).

But 2009's blatant disregard for the source material, its storytelling blunders (no, a graphic novel doesn't count - if it wasn't in the movie, it's still a major plothole in the film itself), and the nasty little attempt to emotionally manipulate you in the beginning with George Kirk and his wife naming Jim made for a viewing experience I wasn't at all expecting, and made me more and more furious as the movie went on.

So... my expectations were exceptionally low when Into Darkness came out, and I skipped it. I later watched it on netflix, and enjoyed the bits about terrorism, military boondoggles/adventurism, and hated all the rehashing of Wrath of Khan.

Into Darkness is a terrible movie, worse, I think, than Final Frontier. But I can enjoy it in the same way I enjoy other bad films. 2009 hit a sensitive nerve.

wait a minute what the fuck

whose bright idea was it to have 2 star trek shows running concurrently?

>>50569971
Beyond is substantially better than either of the ones before it. And Pine actually feels like Kirk in it, which blew my fucking mind.

This is from someone else whose favorite series is TOS, mind.

>>50569753
2009 had one of the best opening scenes in the series history, and then squandered it away with pointless plot twists for the sake of IT'S A DIFFERENT UNIVERSE! OOOOOO! that it was just gutting. Into Darkness was a continuation of the theme, and so I saw it only recently, and mostly I just hated everyone in the movie not named Peter Weller, Karl Urban or Simon Pegg.

>>50569971
Those are all incredibly good reasons to hate 2009, I probably would be the same if my introduction was TOS, but it was weirdly the TOS Movies and TNG, I can't remember which came first.

I think though my love of Wrath of Khan though is what really makes me lose my shit personally with Into Darkness, and sadly I can't believe I never realized I like The Final Frontier more than Into Darkness, and I hate The Final Frontier and I can't even enjoy it as a bad movie beyond the camping scenes.

>>50569971
>and the nasty little attempt to emotionally manipulate you in the beginning with George Kirk and his wife naming Jim
That part is good, man.

>>50570024
Oh and let me clarify why I think the opening of ST:2009 is good. The writing is so-so, but seeing a Star Trek ship cut loose and have a real light show of firepower to try and save its crew is a great experience.

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>>50570002

I will try to be open minded when I see it. Into Darkness really set my expectations super low though, so nearly anything will be more pleasant than that.

>>50570024
>>50570083

The Kelvin entering the scene was really good. The fight scene was also good. Got my hopes up seeing it in the theater.

>>50570033

Oh yeah. Wrath of Khan and Undiscovered Country are my favorites. I think though, that I don't have a blinding hatred of Into Darkness because it pathetically fails to ape Wrath of Khan in anything more than an insipid, superficial way. I have only contempt and pity for it.

>>50570048

I will have to respectfully disagree. It struck me (as it was happening before my eyes in the theater) as incredibly calculating from a storytelling perspective.

>>50570109
For me, its those stupid, insipid, superficial ways, that piss me off cause as I'm watching the movie the fact they decided to even try to ape Wrath of Khan makes me feel like they're screaming "We're better than Wrath of Khan, look at our big dumb action scene and Spock Yelling KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAN like the joke, isn't that fitting? It totally is, we're so much better than the original!"

And yeah, it is incredibly calculating cause they want you too feel bad about Kirks father dying, after all he was the biggest Influence in Kirks life. Its probably, for as painful as it is, the most well-written and done part of the movie.

Though again, I totally understand your feelings and do not blame you for feeling that way about 2009.

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>>50570190

I get you.

>feelings

Yeah. It's those things that get in the way of rational analysis. It's true that the scene is probably the best written one in the movie, but I can't get over my initial reaction of:

"Holy shit. They are incapable of writing well written characters and getting me to like them organically as people, so they're going for the shotgun pellet spray of melodrama, impending heroic sacrifice, and a pregnant soon to be widow and praying it sticks."

Maybe I'm just a cynical old man.

Get off my lawn!

>>50569995
Rick Berman, when they had TNG and DS9, then DS9 and VOY, overlapping.

>Vulcanian

>>50570617
>Klingonese
>Kling

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>>50570566

This is probably due to how wildly successful TNG was. It had millions of viewers during its peak years. More than any other Trek show ever. Even non-fans were watching it.

>>50570617

Recently been re-watching some bits of TOS, and I'm beginning to wonder if Vulcan is even their original home planet. What if there was a precursor "vulcanian" species that had an empire long ago, and the various Vulcanian subraces (Vulcans proper, Romulans, the Mintakans, Rigelians - not to be confused with Rigellians, and possibly Remans and others).

This seems to be suggested in the TOS episode "Return to Tomorrow". Makes me wonder.

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>>50570806

Whoops. I trailed off there. Meant to say "and the various Vulcanian/vulcanoid species are colonies and remnants of that long ago empire". I would additionally add that they're so separated by time that they've almost become different species, and have forgotten their connections to each other. They might even be descendants of different cultures found in the original vulcanoid species, and so would have little reason to suspect they're related since their cultural practices would be so different.

Speculation, certainly.

>>50569971
>has zero sense of scale
Did you mean: Trek in general?

>>50574970
Speaking of which with all the tech manuals that have come out. Do we know just how fast is warp speed? I know it has kind of changed from TOS to TNG with the scale going to a infinite climbing curve where warp 10 is ultimate speed. But of course then there is shit like transwarp and slipstream drives which are just bullshit tech even for the Trek setting.
>So with warp engines how long would take to get to a solar system that's 4 LYs from Earth in TNG or TOS warp 1?

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>>50575065
As I understand it, Warp 1 is baseline on both scales as being 1*c, so, literally light-speed. So, thus, it'd take four years to get there, presuming you aren't having to turn the warp bubble around mid-flight to slow down.

>>50575065
>>50575095
Afaik, Warp 1 is c in both scales, and Warp 5 is 125c in the old sscale (or at least in ENT). Aside from that, no idea.

>>50575065
Warp 1 was initially, 2x the speed of light, IIRC. Then Warp 2 flitted between 3 or 4x, 3 between 4 or 6, and so on. Then when they changed it, Warp 1 was light speed, and everything after that was muddied, since it switched to a logarithmic scale. According to the TNG Manual, Warp 1 is Light Speed, Warp 2 is 10x LS, Warp 3 is 39x, Warp 4 is 102x, 5 is 214x, 6 is 392, 7 is 656, 8 is 1024x, and 9 is 1516x light speed.

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>>50575129
So going from that TNG scale if we want to go from Earth to the closest other system 4LYs away. Going at warp 9 it would take just under a day to get there, right? That is of course assuming you could maintain warp 9 for that long which most ships in the Trek setting as we have been told can't without burning out the warp engines or blowing up along the way.
>TFW it must have sucked to get anywhere in the pre-TOS era counter to whatever ENT showed us.

>>50570190
>>50570258
>>feelings
>expecting meaningful, organic character development instead of having the opportunity wasted by replicated hahaha I'm funny right cheese
>expecting this from a franchise that has Picard's folks die because dubiously relevant melodrama is surprisingly effective at blocking transporter signals
>expecting this from a franchise that has neelix
>fucking neelix
>seriously, when he's more three-dimensional in Delta Rising than he is in the show, something's wrong

Raeg aside, I honestly wouldn't have minded the feelings if they weren't done so fucking hamfistedly. It's pretty hard to break my suspension of "this is formulaic as shit", but the opening of 2009 really did (at least when paying attention - I really didn't mind the first time when still in awe of the techiness and shootiness), especially when it would've been easy to tweak the dialogue to do feels *properly* instead of just giving James T some /hhg/-tier daddy issues.

Also to be fair to Abrams, the brief was to make a truly blockbuster Trek, which, let's be honest, means normiefying it - and since the ENT experiment of making Trek tacticool (and Christian Rock) failed so badly, he had to make it technicool instead. Now, would you rather he ruin your ripe, fertile post-TNG Movie territory (that STO is busy ruining instead) with shootiness, steel walkways and a complete absence of shields? Or would you rather have him shove it into an AU so all the purists don't erupt into as much of a shitstorm? I *do* wish the Narada and the Jellyfish still had the "regular" trek aesthetic, but I feel like the alternate timeline handwaving was the least worst solution to a reboot trying to take advantage of TOS's legendary status.

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do they ever go into detail in tng/ds9/voy about if homosexuality is accepted in humanity and other races/cultures

the only time i only remember anything gay in the main series was in ds9 with quark thinking that ferengi woman disguised as a man wanted to fug him and he just came off as not being interested in having sex

>>50576352
Since the target demo of the setting are mostly sexless geeks. I think making too homo would weird or turn them off. I mean in one TNG episode Riker was about to punch a hole into an alien who wanted to be a lady in a race that had no 'gender'. I think there are a ton of fags in Trek universe and I'm not talking of the fan base here. But they just don't talk about it because it's not 'Twilight'. With a large fan girl base that want to see Kirk and Spock fuck like in slash fic I know are out there. Now girl on girl stuff would be fine in Trek since geek guys can get into that.

>>50576352
There were a couple of instances of it with the Trill.

DS9 spoiler: Dax runs into the host of a symbiont she used to be married to, only now they're both female. 2 symbionts re-entering into a relationship from previous hosts is frowned upon, but nobody seems all that shocked by the notion of 2 women banging.

TNG spoiler: There's also Crusher and the OG Trill diplomat. He gets romantically involved with her, then gets killed by terrorists and ends up inhabiting Riker. Crusher is uncomfortable with it but they remain tangentially involved. When the Trill gets a new host, Crusher is initially excited to reingage with him until it turns out he's now female. Crusher rejects her and so ends the arc.

What we learn from these 2 instances is that, in theory, most people think homosexual relationships are fine. However it's not like everyone is bi. The majority of people still hold to traditional straight values.

>>50576429
>I mean in one TNG episode Riker was about to punch a hole into an alien who wanted to be a lady in a race that had no 'gender'.

Originally the alien actor was supposed to be a dude but the network wouldn't go for it.

>>50576352
Dax also found it really obvious that ferengi was in love with quark, but reacted with complete shock when she found out it was a woman.
Honestly id say Quark was actually pretty confused by the whole idea, i didnt get the impression he "didnt want to have sex" but rather "what is this, what is happening" as though his species had literally no concept of this.

So, has anyone so far gotten a single epic or exceedingly rare phoenix coupon?

>>50576352
They cured all mental illnesses* in humanoids by TOS time, so no, no homos.
Probably lots of bi though, because muh futuristic sexual liberation.
*apparently autism isn't a mental illness.

>>50578233
I got a couple UR's. I think the UR's are the same rarity as a typical lockbox main prize (.4-.5%), and the epics are like the super grand prizes they sometimes do.

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>>50578542
>*apparently autism isn't a mental illness.
I think unless you are a violent offender they don't try to change your brain workings. Which I guess explains Barkley's behavior since he wasn't violent just weird so they left him alone.

>>50575125
>>50575095
>>50575330


www.st-minutiae.com/resources/warp/

A warp factor, time, velocity and distance calculator. And unlike the top result on google, this one isn't attach to some nutjob's page. Gets a little fiddly if you try to calculate warp factors over 9.9 but it does account for them if you do it top down.

Turns out that slipstream drive, going by the Voyager travelling 300 light years in an hour was about warp factor 9.999993 on the TNG scale or 138.03 on the TOS scale.

Either way, weirdly fascinating to play with. Also a handy tool if you want consistency

>>50578233
Just got about 24 boxes. 13 uncommon, 8 rare, 3 very rare.

To be honest I'm just abusing the ever loving shout out of the universal upgrades you get from uncommon.

>>50578917
Im gonna wait for the next upgrade event before using mine.
Gotta exploit the fuck out of the exploitations!

>>50579079
I've got so much of them now that I'm fairly sure I can get everything to epic with no bother

>>50575565
Did the authorities even know there was a fire until it was too late? Unless they had a fire alarm with a link to whatever fire department was nearby there might not have been any way for someone to know until it was too late. If I remember correctly, they didn't even have a replicator installed in the home (while homemade food tastes better, the sheer convenience of it cannot be ignored for some things).

>>50579406
That...doesn't make the situation sound less stupid in any way whatsoever.

>>50579447
It sounds stupid that someone didn't buy a fire alarm with the equivalent of a phone line? Because that happens all the time.

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I'm unreasonably happy that they've fixed the Nebula class so that she has impulse engines.

>>50578711
Also explains why Bashir's parents had to break the law to cure him of his pretty severe mental disability, whatever it was. Earth is full of people with problems that the Federation could fix but chooses not to because muh Khan

>>50580913
People are terrified of gene modded rice, you can't expect them to be sensible about getting rid of things that are problems.

>>50580913
>Earth is full of people with problems that the Federation could fix but chooses not to because society does not need everybody to perfect

Man does not live on bread alone.

>>50581597
He must have peanut butter.

>>50576352
>do they ever go into detail in tng/ds9/voy about if homosexuality is accepted in humanity

DS9 more or less establishes it as not being a concern anymore. No one cares who you bang as long as that person is an adult and consenting.

>>50580913
I like to think that there's actually a pretty intense debate regarding the benefits of limited genetic manipulation.

In "Family", the TNG episode revolving around visiting Earth after the Borg attack, we see that there are some that simply don't agree with the Federations stances. We see this again in Sisko's father and also in Bashir's mere existence.

I wholeheartedly believe that, if I were in that situation, I would do anything to give my child a chance at a normal life. And I tend to believe that there are thousands of human families within the Federation that not only would do the same, but have to face that possibility because of some quirk of mutation. How bitter a pill it must be to swallow to hear that your child will never have a normal life because "muh 350 year old boogeyman".

God Tier
>Jaylah
>TOS Uhura

Good Tier
>Nuhura
>Janice
>Lieutenant Torres

Okay Tier
>Everyone not listed above or below

"Okay... I guess" tier
>Troi

Hot, but a mediocre character in a mostly bad series tier
>T'Pol

Shit tier
>Janeway

>>50582057
I'd disagree with you on T'Pol, but even I realize I like Enterprise in spite of some very poor writing. That being said, being sent to Decon with her has to be a special kind of hell.

>Troi
>not shit tier

>>50582085
I am genuinely fine with you moving whoever you want as long as you don't argue about the two I put in God Tier.

>>50582057
>Janice Rand
>anywhere on that list

Can't act, crap character, glad they ditched her.

>Torres
>angry all the time and lashes out at people constantly yet gets to stay as department head due to being buddies with the captain
>not Shit Tier

Distinctly missing from Good or God tier:
>no Dax, any version
>no Kira
>no Morn
>no that one vulcan with ze big boobies who was in the maquis

The fuck are you on?

>>50582057
>Not wanting early-DS9 Kira to slap you about a bit and show you her "Pah"

Lad, you're not even trying. Next you'll be telling me you don't want mirror Ezri to capture you and use you as her slave.

>>50582107
No one is going to argue Uhura, and I refused to see the other on the grounds that J. J. Abrams is a hack and all he touches is bad, so I can't judge her.
>>50582164
>angry all the time and lashes out at people constantly yet gets to stay as department head due to being buddies with the captain
Sounds like a Chief Petty Officer, except she's somehow a junior officer.
>>50582187
>Not wanting early-DS9 Kira to slap you about a bit and show you her "Pah"
Stop making me feel things.

>>50582205
Abrams left before they made Beyond. They just kept his name on it.

>>50582233
He touched the universe. I'm not going to see the new Star Wars films now, I gave him one last shot with VII, he blew it harder than a hydrogen bomb.

>>50582269
So are you never going to watch anything Star Wars again even if he isn't involved?

Even Lucas got past his ego and liked Rogue One.

>>50582283
No, I'm just not going to watch the sequel films. Rogue One is a "Maybe".

Abrams has been brought up, so I'm just going to give you all my 500 kwachas on the matter.

Abrams is great at aping the style/stories of others. Super 8 is straight up a Spielberg movie. Star Trek (09) and Force Awakens are just Spielberg-ised variations of 2 of modern sci-fis cornerstones. It's worth noting that Abrams considers Spielberg his inspiration. The Cloverfields are his take on the monster franchise/isolation thriller. Even with his TV shows there's a tendency to give pre-existing franchises the Abrams treatment. And that's not a terrible thing. Westworld is probably the best show I've watched this year. But Lost, Alias, Fringe and Revolution were just sort of... there. They exist, but I have no strong feelings about them because they're so bland.

In short, Abrams is omnipresent in pop culture, and that's not necessarily a good thing. He makes gold on occasion, but he also made Into Darkness, so there's that.

>>50582283
>Even Lucas got past his ego and liked Rogue One.

But Lucas has always liked fan films.

>>50582205
>Sounds like a Chief Petty Officer

Well she certainly can be petty.

I do actually like that the character had traits that brought them into conflict with others on the crew, I just don't like the character as a person in the same (though vastly superior) Worf would have disagreements with others, though at least he tended to keep it professional.

>>50583132
>I do actually like that the character had traits that brought them into conflict with others on the crew
>at least he tended to keep it professional.
Agreed, the whole conflict between the professionalism of Starfleet officers and the engineer who probably runs the spaceborne equivalent of Mad Max rigs should've been explored more. Instead we just got personal shit that made me wonder how much salt neelix was lacing the blood pie with, as well as "m-muh half-blood" storylines

>>50582650
The man's damn good at homages (Super 8 in particular) and putting a twist on old ideas to seem fresh and new. Hell, even Fringe just felt like the X-Files but with the detective-y heart replaced with a police procedural and some tacticool (although afaik it was just made by Bad Robot and they slapped his name on at the end). 2009 and TFA didn't so much feel like big budget fanworks as they did like he took the old franchises and transplanted whatever he saw being popular in the Current Year into them - they feel a lot more formulaic than the older material was. Entertaining, but little more.

>>50583236
I thought about it for a bit and I think there is a change that could have worked without altering the character. Clearly Torres was picked because of the need to integrate the Maquis bods with the remaining starfleet crew, and they're skilled enough at what they do. the decision to run the ship as if it was still a fully starfleet vessel was of course too easy, since most of the Maquis were integrated pretty fucking quickly. Some of them were former star fleet, easing the transition, and the pretty desperate situation kinda demanded it. Though this transition was basically ignored. Let's assume that we don't go from 'fuck you star fleet' to 'who are you to question the captain' in just a few weeks with no explanation.

Torres was I guess supposed to be queen bee of her own engineering, very used to getting her way because she could do her job and was friends with the boss. I'd expect the starfleet engineers on the crew to still treat the matter professionally at work, but with her attitude getting her incredibly socially isolated because she's a shit boss. Really, really shit. The Captain's sticking to her guns about Torres being in charge despite an increasing stack of complaints, Tuvok repeatedly questioning her logic for this, the Doctor too after crewmen end up in sickbay from her lashing out. So the character needed pushing to actually adapt and not try and keep running things the way she did. Throw in some crisis situations where her staff only bothers to help her out of it being their job, and barely even bothering with that, practically going on strike after one of her rampages, increasing incidents of little 'accidents' for her thanks to the Maquis on the engineering team, have the old maquis members who now not having to put up with her shit due to being on a much larger ship refusing to associate with her, gradually wear the character down to the point that realising maybe she shouldn't be a cunt to everyone all the time might be a good idea.

>>50583558
But actually have her prove she's the best engineer they have and capable of commanding respect at least, show that she's too used to ruling through what amounts to coercion and illustrate why that's a really bad way to operate on a star fleet vessel, even though the starfleet guys would still be doing their duty.

The change would need to happen pretty rapidly though to not have a hell of a lot of lingering resentment. In the show she only really got better as a character when she started dating Paris. Which also notably improved Paris, partly because he stopped having episodes centred on him with Kim doing whatever. So I guess a continual supply of hard dickings was the solution they both needed..

>>50583558
>>50583699
All of this, so much. We just really needed the half klingon, former Maquis chief engineer to act like she was one.

>>50583363
You know what I find really telling? I loved TFA, ST(09) and ST:ID the first time I watched them. I really engaged with them and got drawn in by the action and blatant nostalgia-baiting. But when I watched them for a second time, I didn't feel the same way.

TFA felt more like a "best of"episode(the kind Stargate used to do) than an actual installment in the franchise.

(09) still felt fun but it all seemed really rushed(Kirk's first mission see's him go from cadet on probation to captain of the Flagship of Starfleet).

And then Into darkness was just fan-bait, something Abrams claimed to have intended to avoid. You may as well have called it "Wrathful Khan-esque guy that is totally not Khan ;)".

and then there's Abrams famous misunderstanding of how vast space is. (How the fuck can the Not!Deathstar fire a sub-luminal beam weapon across a vast area of space and then have it be visible from no less than 3 Star systems simultaneously? How can Spock see the destruction of Vulcan by black hole, visibly in the night's sky from Delta Vega, a different planet? There's a bunch of issues with that last sentence I wont get into because I don't have the character limit left for it. And then how does the Enterprise, with clear line-of-sight with Earth, have no way to call for help in "orbit" of the capital world of the UF of fucking P? And then how does it end up falling to Earth from the far-ish side of the moon after it loses power?) (I could really go on and on about I hate Abram's lack of spacial awareness but I won't.)

Pretty much the best thing about the Abrams' Star Trek films is the music. Labour of Love, London Calling and the main theme are phenomenal. Giacchino can write music for Star Trek anytime he wants.

Having rewatched ST: Beyond and loved it (seriously, how did they make the Beastie Boys part the amazing?) I have no alternative but to say that JJ was detrimental, not only to general Star Trek, but to the very reboot he orchestrated.

>>50584068
>Photon torpedoes doing literally nothing against swarms of enemies that should be most vulnerable to explosive/blast damage
>What even is Point Defence?
>What even are deflector shields?
>The BBEGs being a rehash of Khan ("GUESS WHAT, THE UFP ISN'T AS NICE AS YOU THING also they were mean to me so the only solution is GENOCIDE") and Nero ("I was once a Good Man but something happened WHICH IS TOTALLY YOUR FAULT, now suddenly Bullshit WMDs for Fun and Profit")
>Holy fucking shit the Yorktown looks so forcedly technicool it's disgusting
>The entire air system there is held together by technobabble that is in the uncanny valley between actual science and obvious bullshit
>It's also pretty much just the fucking crushers (or whatever they are) in Galaxy Quest
>For a "frontier outpost" it's so soft and squishy it's ridiculous, like, it barely even has token defences on the Final Frontier (although I guess that kinda fits with the BBEGs complaints of the UFP being pansies?)
Your complaints about 09 and ID are all completely valid, but how the hell dod you find Beyond acceptable in the slightest?

That being said, Kirk's first mission is rushed as hell but it's probably one of the least worst excuses to get a cadet into the captain's chair. The spatial bullshit in 09 and ID that you've said didn't actually seem that bad to me when watching - but the bit that really triggers me is that Earth is a few minutes from the Klingon/UFP border, "maximum warp" or not.

As for TFA? Can't really complain about that, since it has a pretty big history of similar bullshittery (that fucking asteroid belt chase I s2g)

>>50584902
Not everyone is a raging autist like you. I hear there have been great advances in treatment these days anon, you should look into it.

>>50584902
Guy who posted >>50584068 not >>50585115

>Your complaints about 09 and ID are all completely valid, but how the hell dod you find Beyond acceptable in the slightest?
The reason I'm not as harsh on Beyond is because, despite it's flaws, it's much more Star Trek than the other 2. I could well see beyond as a good TNG 2-parter where I can't see that for the other 2. Sure, there's a number of issues with it, but I feel that they're minor in comparison to the body of complaints i have against 09 and Into Darkness. I could copile them into a list if you wish, but it might take a while.

>>50585115
ITT: nitpicking and general disdain for JJTrek
>hahah wow you don't suck abrams's dick, what an autist

>>50570806
>>50570890

There is a precursor Vulcanod species, and they're the Vulcans; but not modern Vulcans. Vulcan was canonically a spacefaring power before it had a brutal civil war and kicked itself to bits. At least one of the sides of this civil war flew away and founded the Romulans, and it's quite likely the other Vulcanoids were similar exoduses or forgotten and abandoned colonies. Whilst Vulcan itself fell to a Fundamentalist cult of emotion-denial. The Vulcans of the trek we see are the decedents of these victorious extremists.

>>50577340

Rule of Aquisition 113: Always have sex with the boss.

Now consider that Ferengi females were (before Grand Nagus Rom) not allowed to do business or earn profit...

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>>50574970

I've been busy all day, so this is the first I've gotten a chance to reply to this.

But, sci-fi in general (and even some fantasy) has this issue. I'm not turning a blind eye to it in the rest of Trek, or even other science fiction. I'm as hard on those as I am in J.J.

However, J.J. is particularly bad about this.

In 2009, Enterpise warps away from Vulcan, and Spock and Kirk have their argument about where to go, Spock orders to regroup with the fleet, and then maroons Kirk on Delta Vega.

But, inexplicably, Spock was able to see the destruction of Vulcan from the surface of Delta Vega - but this isn't possible. Delta Vega is obviously not a moon of Vulcan, and it is obviously far enough away that Enterpise must take a slight detour at warp to drop Kirk off there.

This is again shown with Starkiller base in the Force Awakens. Three (or was it four?) planets are destroyed and they can be visibly seen in the sky of whatever planet the heroes are on at the time. The planets can see their fellows about to be hit just before, and they can see the beam coming.

J.J. is simply terrible at grasping the immense distances involved, doesn't care, and it shows.

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>>50586742
I don't know about that. I think that it is more likely that an even earlier version of pointy eared copper blooded alien seeded those worlds that fostered the species. That we later know as Vulcans, Romulans and other green blooded races we see. Since it seems that even if Vulcans and Romulans seem very similar on the surface, the two races had very different evolutions after a point. Vulcans are much stronger, tougher and have actual adapted organs to fit their planet. Where it seems if Romulans were descents of them, you would think they would have retained some of these traits. Romulans appear to have evolved on a much less harsh planet much more like Earth. Where they only gained the similar stats of a human since we see Kirk fight one and best them on somewhat equal terms. So it looks more likely that they are cousin species and are not directly linked to each other.
>TFW I wonder when 'Vulcan sex slave 3' is going to come out?

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>>50587328

>hard in J.J.

Thaaat was a typo. A hilarious one.

>>50586847
>not allowed to do business or earn profit...
Or wear clothes (and for some people like Quark and Rom's mom that was not a good thing. Ah my eyes.)

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>>50580530
For reference here's the aft of the Nebula (the queen of all starships) before the remodel. Note that the only drag lines are coming from the warp nacelles. This is actually in line with the original model used in "The Wounded" for the USS Phoenix, which, due to time constraints, didn't have the saucer section impulse ports of the Galaxy Class.

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>>50587604
Here, in the remodel, we see the impulse engines, more in line with later remodels of the ship. To my knowledge, no physical model of the Nebula with impulse engines was ever fabricated, and the only canon examples of this are in DS9, post change over to CGI.

>>50587391
So. Ugly.

>>50587391
Where the fuck is it like firing half it's shots from anyway?

>>50588187
There are two hardpoints at the rear of the cutout on top; they appear circular, I think. These are the ones firing backwards. The ones firing into center frame are from somewhere on the underside.

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>>50588107

I don't think there's any way to make the Vengeance anything more than mean and nasty looking. Her angles simply are not pleasing.

>>50588187

STO doesn't actually have dedicated hardpoints for specific weapons like Starfleet Command does. Weapons simply fire from available hardpoints on a particular side of the ship model.

I was also using Fire At Will at the time, which is why they're shooting at wildly different targets.

I apologize for not having new screenshots - I've been busy all day, and I'm probably going to go to bed soonish.

>>50588308
>I don't think there's any way to make the Vengeance anything more than mean and nasty looking. Her angles simply are not pleasing.

The proportions are bad, the angles are bad, the colouration and texturing are bad. The mis-matching of rounded bits and hard angles is bad.

It's everything done wrong in making starfleet ships look decent turned the fuck up to 11. The JJ-verse Enterprise is bad enough (the new version even worse somehow) with it's squished up, weirdly positioned elements but this design really takes the cake, like it had to deliberately made to look fucking awful.

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>centuries in the future
>not full of cute butch women
Dammit, Star Trek.

>>50588720
Closest you're getting is Tasha, 'm afraid

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>>50588734
Actually, my ST crush is pic related.

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>>50588671

I agree with all your points. I'm not super fond of the Vengeance, but her STO stats are insanely good, and so when I had the opportunity to get one, I didn't turn my nose up at her.

Bear in mind, though, that she's got the Nukara shield on (which makes her that scaly grey color/texture), so it could be the Nukara shield makes her look worse.

I'll take a pic of her with it disabled.

>>50588734
I'll take a dozen just like her, and can you throw in a few toned girls?

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>>50588780

Welp, here we go. I forgot to disable the assimilated console's visuals, so those are still stuck all around like little parasites, but it's minor.

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>>50588914

I'm not using the Vengeance's default skin, so there's that. If you want to see a pic of the default skin, link is below:

>https://pwimages-a.akamaihd.net/arc/86/9d/869d875c71f0596ccceb2dc8e9b20daa1467701749.jpg

I'm not a fan of it myself, hence why mine is white.

>>50588987
That's not a skin, that's someone googling "sci-fi texture" and overlaying the result across the entire UV map.

What the fuck

>>50582205
>>>50582164
>>angry all the time and lashes out at people constantly yet gets to stay as department head due to being buddies with the captain
>Sounds like a Chief Petty Officer, except she's somehow a junior officer.

You have to be competent to be a CPO......

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>>50588987

Once I finally get my Temporal alt's reps done, I'll start a new project and get another Iconian set. Everything has been on hold until then. It sucks, because I finished grinding out the first Iconian set when AoY launched.

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>>50589024

The white texture on my Vengeance (which admittedly doesn't line up well with her geometry), or the craptacular default black one?

>>50589072
The craptacular black one

Your white and red actually looks decent

>>50589037
Fair point, though she's at least smart enough that she made up 1/6th of a design team for a shuttle made in a week. She's not incompetent, she's just not a good leader.

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>>50589088

Well, thanks. I try. Have a much better starship than the Vengeance.

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>>50588720
>>50588734
There are a few but you're right, they are rare.

>>50589105
>she's just not a good leader.
I think you mean she has crap interpersonal skills which she does. I think being raised human while looking as she does, did a number on her emotionally.

Finally getting my TOS Captain too the Delta Quadrant, and I just cannot help myself feel highly amused by the fact a TOS shipis blowing up ships during 2410.

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>>50589225

I enjoyed myself. Probably more than I should have, considering how much I dislike the Delta Quadrant arc.

>>50589312
There are parts of the Delta Quadrent stuff I like, and parts I don't, but it still fun to dick around the Delta Quadrant in a ship that has no business being there.

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>>50589312
There's a certain thematic pleasure to come from handling the Delta Quadrant in a ship Kirk could have captained and in a manner Kirk would have approved of.

>>50589225
Exterminate the Vidiians.

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>>50589345

My main complaint is the HP bloat and the length. The Delta Arc requires endurance and willpower.

Also, I just fought my first real D'deridex in my T1 forever challenge character. I killed her, and am really glad I put the Point Defense console from the Thunderchild on her, but those damn plasma fires got me down to 9% hull.

Definitely had me squirming in my seat just now.

>>50589400

Indeed.

>>50589421

I wish, but apparently they were cured off-screen or something and are okay dudes now. Aside from being guilty of terrible crimes, or guilty of having profited off of terrible crimes.

>>50589440
But it's the 2100's. Does this mean that you get to fight some kind of time travelers in an attempt to restore the future full of sick murderers?

>>50589594
>>50589440
Mistyped, should be 2300's. Mea culpa.

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>>50589594
>>50589609

I'm not sure I follow. Perhaps I'm just being obtuse?

What is the most A E S T H E T I C Federation vessel?

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>>50589725

Federation? Of all time?

I'm really, really tempted to say Connie, either TOS or Refit, but... I know in my heart of hearts that the only true answer is the Excelsior.

But the D7 is the most aesthetic ship in all of Trek.

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>>50589725

>>50589785
Not gonna lie, I'd be ok with STO giving us an Argo, even though it'd only work in one Adventure zone.

>>50589811
It'd make Kobalistan tolerable, at least.

>>50589836
No, it wouldn't be there, they'd leave it untouched and shit.

It'd be a new much bigger adventure zone that would be only bareable by the fact we'd have an Argo.

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>>50589725
Well, I like it, at least, for its aesthetics.

>>50589847
God, an "exploration" adventure zone that's so massive it'd need an Argo would be horrific.

>>50589847
>Not using your hoverboards
>Not running escort for a team in an Argo on your hotshit hoverboard
>Not getting shot down by a faggot in a jetpack and eating dirt face first

>>50589952
But see, this is Cryptic who didn't take the opprotunity to inject a little fun in the first adventure zone with those items.

Which led to it being rather dull, so even if they did make a massive exploration zone where you could use the Argo, they'd not implement fun like that.

How come the Vulcan ships in TNG look so dumpy? I thought Vulcans was supposed to be smart.

>>50590316
Aesthetic isn't logical.

>>50589705
The Vidiians were killed offscreen, but you're in a TOS ship. Doesn't that mean that you're in the 2300's? I haven't played the game, I don't have time for an MMO, and from the sound of things my assumptions are WAY off.

>>50591610
>killed
Meant Cured. I obviously need to sleep.

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>>50589725
Gotta be the Galaxy. Whilst I love the Nebula in a way that might be seen as obsessive, I will admit that the Galaxy is a more iconic, well proportioned ship.

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>>50593640
I on the other hand despise it due to its stumpy nacellas and wide saucer.
Nebula looks ok because it has more originality going for its design while the galaxy is supposed to go with the standard look of a cruiser but ends up looking more like a bulldog compared to the collie that we know as connie.

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>>50591610

Oh, no. The MMO doesn't exactly make sense tech-wise why a Ranger battlecruiser from the 2360s would be equal (or even superior) to a Sovereign class. They are however "temporal ships" so they're like not sporting 2360 tech under that old (or reproduction) space frame.

But, because of how the leveling system works, ships are split into tiers. 1-9 is T1. 10-19 is T2. 20-29 is T3, and so on. The 2360s aesthetic temporal ships are meant for leveling play. They also have 26th century counterparts modeled after the Enterprise-J, but I'm not a fan of the way they look, but they can use the 2360s temporal ship models instead if you own both.

So, at end game I have TOS style ships with stats to match my level, and I can use TOS style ships while I'm on my way there. Makes me happy, but isn't at all logical from an in-universe perspective.

Not that I care. I just want to be dressed up in the original uniforms, waving my Type II phaser around, and blowing up bad guys with my sleek grey starship c. 2367. That's all I've ever wanted.

Speaking of, I should take more screen shots of my TOS ships for the thread.

>>50595241
You think that's bad?
How about using a 22nd century NX class instead of a miranda?

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>>50595348

I don't know why I tend to forget about her, but yes. There's also the T1 andorian ship, which is also 22nd century.

The grappler console is more helpful than it appears at first glance. The Oberth I keep posting screenshots of is using it because it's like having a tractor beam that doesn't take up a valuable healing ability in my bridge officer stations.

I wish there was an option to make the NX look like pic related, but you can't have everything.

>>50595430
Hey, meybe it becomes available as a tier 6 ship In a R&D box.
Speaking of which, the R&D box event is gonna start soon again, today i guess.

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>>50589725

I un-ironically enjoy the massively over-long flypast sequence of the Constitution refit in space dock and will quite happily watch that entire thing on its own.

Image related.

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>>50595460

Hooray. I'm so excited.Perhaps not.

Actually, I've used the drop in the dil:zen ratio to get half-way to a T6 c-store starship. I'd rather have something I can use on all my characters. The account-wide admiralty cards alone are so helpful with the admiralty grind that the value is much better than gambling for iconic T6 ships in the boxes.

Besides. The Agamemnon gives a good showing for being totally outclassed in every way. The major issue is drawing too much threat, since lots of ships shooting her at once is hard to keep up with because of how few abilities T1s have access to. But a single HP sponge ubership? Not a problem, so long as they don't 1-shot her.

>>50595480

She's a fine ship. I'm always get a little choked up in STIII when she's falling into the Genesis planet's atmosphere and Kirk says "My god Bones, what have I done?"

>>50595241

*22X0s, not 23X0s.

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So I know STO is mostly basic space ship and generic combat on foot. Are there any out there missions you can do? For instance, there are a lot of god like beings in Trek, do you ever meet one in game and have to fight/roleplay in a situation with them?
>TFW STO needs a mission where you fight a giant glowing green hand.

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>>50595903

There's several times you can encounter god-like beings. The Guardian of Forever, Q in the Winter and Anniversary Events, arguably the Iconians, etc.

The problem is that there's very little roleplaying to be had with the game's built in story. It's essentially linear rails: Go [somwhere]. Interact with [object] and then fight [someone].

If there's more than 2 dialogue options, it's because you can ask questions, but usually non-question dialogue is effectively the same:

>"Can't we resolve this peacefully?"
>>"No [Admiral/General] [Anon], [motivation+threat]!
>>>[close dialogue window], proceed to combat

or

>"Honorless [generic insult/targ/p'taq]! I have all the guns! All of them!"
>>"Hah! Don't you see you're at my mercy [Admiral/General] [Anon!]. [Motivation+threat].
>>>[close dialogue window], proceed to combat

Any roleplaying to be had is pretending you're not a fleet admiral and trying to dress the part in social zones. Or I guess you could go to Drozana.

Don't go to Drozana.

>>50595903
Well in the old missions on borg front you had to play around with Q for a mission, but after that Q stopped being a character in regular missions and nowadays only comes around during christmas to invite captains and admirals to his winter wonderland to kill snowmen.

Then there might be some player made missions in the foundry, but i rarely play those so i don't know for sure.

Beyond that, the only god-like beings we fight are the Iconians, and even those guys don't really do anything outlandish beyond being tough to kill.

>>50596072
here, what >>50596026
says is true, the guardian makes an appearance once or twice too.

>>50589209
This, this this this mcthis. Faces had a pretty ridiculous premise, but it's probably the deepest we see B'Elanna (or maybe even any of the Voy characters) get, and it's pretty damn good on that alone.

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>>50594367
I like the more curved aesthetic. The ships just "flow" better.

>>50589769
Gonna get lynched here, but I actually really dislike the Excelsior. The deflector placement really irritates me in particular, always makes me think it's angled down instead of forewards. The nacelles and pylons, admittedly, are noice, but the boring "vanilla" circular saucer clashes with what would otherwise be quite a low, sleek design with just enough squareness to fit its time period perfectly.

>>50589852
>>50593640
Correct answers

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>>50596210

Nah. I won't lynch you for a differing opinion. I really like the circular saucers, to me they "look right". But I know not everyone shares that opinion, so... fuk u fagget goback2 [webzone]?

>>50596210
The Excelsior reminds me of early 20th century juggernauts.

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I like ships with more angles that make sense like the simple triangle or wedge shape.

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>>50595241
I remember reading somewhere in the background material that Starfleet ships are built to be upgraded more or less indefinitely with all the components and systems capable of being stripped out and replaced as new shit becomes available. Consider that the materials most of the main heavy shit is made of don't degrade/degrade incredibly slowly and the main structure of the ship is designed to last for at least more than a century of active use.

Now take into account that we know the Federation dumps old ships it deems uneconomical to upgrade in a derelict yard.

Now take into account the incredible interchangeability of Starfleet issue components combined with the legendary skill of it's engineers.

There is little stopping a skilled engineer, with a skilled crew of their own, from visiting the place where dead ships sleep and lashing something functional together assuming he can do it quickly and quietly enough to not get caught.

Which raises a pretty fucking possibility. When Earth got bombed in the Dominion war there would have been a lot of pissed off retired Starfleet engineers and non Starfleet spaceship captains and their old crews. And many of them would have lost someone in the bombings, depending on how sever the bombings were. And a lot of them are looking for one last moment of glory and some are just really fucking angry because this is the first time the sanctity of Earth has been violated since the Xindi.

And they know where some ships are to be found where nobody would miss them.

A few months later the scrap yard is lurching into some terrible mockery of life, favors are being called in with the Mudd Interstellar Trader Company, loans are being taken out with the Feranginar International Futures Bank, Loans are being called in from the First Bank of Bolas and a all over the UFP private collections are being raided for obsolete old parts.

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>>50599401
Everything that couldn't be made warp-capable was broken down to rebuild things that could. Old officers were allowed to keep their old uniforms when they got their Golden Handshake, their pension and shown the exit and the whole scrap armada is being captained by captains in TNG, WoK and even a few in what are, impossibly, grey and faded ENT uniforms.

Most of the ships can't get above warp 4 without something catching fire, no two have quite the same weapons and life support systems are kind of glitchy.

It's a shitty little armada of traveling scrap and fueled by murderous intent. It is not a fleet that would beam aboard survivors of a stricken Dominion ship at the end of an engagement. It's the sort that would quite happily beam the survivors into space and let them try and suck vacuum and then raid the other ship for parts. The Dominion would learn that of all the terrible things in the universe there is nothing quite so vicious as an old man with a grudge, a weapon and the belief that they have nothing left to loose.

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>>50599401

>survivors of the Breen attack on Earth and Cardassian war vets band together to build a privateer fleet to take the fight to the Breen and all comers

This has potential. Now imagine if Section 31 was helping them, they had former Bajoran resistance fighters, and the last remaining Maquis members.

And the Dominion War is over, and there's a lot of traumatized vets from that war too, who are angry as hell, bruised emotionally, physically crippled in some cases, and are now discipline problems because they no longer fit into the old "evolved past our humanity" mentality of the TNG era.

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>>50599657
This isn't privateer.

Starfleet never never rubber stamped this. Starfleet has standards.

This is a fleet of stolen ships, pilfered from a UFP scrap yard without permission by angry veterans and old warhorses who grew tired of green pastures.

It is crewed by the sad and the mad and the fuckups and the dregs of Earth Space Docks and anyone else with an axe to grind and useful hands.

They sail under the Black Flag of no mans space. Although some are using the black and white version of the UFP flag but replaced the olive branches with phaser rifles. Some of the captains have gone way more traditional.

Starfleet would never give permission. Permission was not asked.

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>>50599965

You're right. They never would, even if S31 was assisting them in small ways, or shielding them from official reprisal.

They're corsairs.

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>>50600041
S31 might be able to intercept the messages coming from the scrap yard. That is all they would need to do. Starfleet would have way more to worry about than the empty patch of the sky in which they dump their broken toys. By the time they know shit is weird and have sent someone to have a look it's much emptier space and one administrators office with a rather depressed administrator.

And to make matters worse they wouldn't be bound by all the old regulations that Starfleet hold so very dear.

For one thing if they start raiding wherever the fuck it is old Romulan ships get dumped they have old cloaking devices. Not as good as a new cloaking device but better than the sort that the Federation habitually uses which is no cloaking device.

>>50599401
>>50599573
I desperately want to read this story.

>>50599401
Considering how bad the war was going at that point, all skilled engineers probably had been recalled to duty already, and those shipyards emptied out. They were pretty much pulling everyone they could get their hands on. Hell, they even pulled Captain Maxwell out of prison, gave him the Phoenix and pointed them in the direction of Cardassia space with a carte blanche order.

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>>50602133
This pirate fleet is headed by something much worse.

A prisoner rescued from a Cardasian prison.

He was dragged to them half dead, three Jem'Hadar disruptor burns to the chest. Patched back up to keep barely alive. Needed to know where his friends still lived, if any still lived.

Kept half dead for months, a former Starfleet officer. He could know things. Rescued by Starfleet intelligence because they didn't know who he was, what he knew and could divulge.

Made him whole again but should have posted better guards at the hospital.

Micheal "Where my replicators at" Eddington lives.

>>50602527
I never liked Eddington. He tried too hard to be something he wasn't and got a lot of people killed because of it. Also he wasn't nearly as clever as he thought he was.

>>50602642
But like Maxwell he turned out to be right.

Also his associates were doing quite well until the Dominion showed up.

>>50602642
Personally I hated him because he kept trying to force Les Miserables comparisons on to himself and Sisko, as if treason, theft of government property and desertion were merely petty crimes, and that his CO was overreacting to them.

>Hurr everyone's a saint in paradise
Oh shut up guy.

>>50602823
Regardless of whether they were right or not, they don't get to be the poor put upon freedom fighters *and* the moral high ground guys at the same time. They spent more time acting like everyone who didn't up and desert for the Maquis were big ol doodyheads for staying with Starfleet than getting evidence of Cardassian duplicity.

>>50602860
Except that there was evidence that the Cardassians were tooling up an planning shit.

Alliance with Tal-Shiar
Capturing a federation captain with knowledge of bio weapons and torturing him for information
Hiding an entire fleet in a nebula
Smuggling weapons into DMZ
Building up fleets in secret shipyard

And then oh look they join the Dominion and attack the UFP how totally unexpected.

Eddington, Maxwell an T. W. Riker were right but for mostly wrong and/or stupid reasons.

Well... I actually like the look of the command cruisers... though I bought the three pack so I could kludge a better looking ship from it. I just wish the Jupiter class didn't look like a jiffy- pop pan that's not quite done yet, I survive well in that bloated monstrosity.

>>50603190

So, the Federation, peace loving, non-imperialists that they are, should have simply attacked the Cardassian Union, annexed their territory, and overthrown their government in self-defense?

>>50603443
Cardassians work on notions of dominance. Giving them worlds at the end of the war was to them a sign of subservience. UFP was literally asking for it.

>>50603543

>Cardassian notions

The UFP isn't Cardassian, and it would betray their values to be the belligerent in that situation.

>asking for it

So was Japan, but the U.S. waited until they hit Pearl Harbor partly because pre-emptively starting a war with Japan wouldn't have garnered the same popular support, but also because they had no idea where the Japanese carrier group was, or where it would strike.

But they knew that war was coming, and that there wasn't much that could be done to stop it.

Yes. I'm oversimplifying the historical situation. Much like a television show would simplify a complex situation like two nation states gearing up to go kill a shit ton of each others citizens.

>>50603649
UFP considers appeasing aggressor more important than the lives of its citizens.

That's pretty fucking bad.

>>50603686

I blame TNG and its notions of utopia.

>>50603686
To be fair (insofar as it's fair), that is literally every government, real or fictional. Something something greater good.

>>50602642
How about instead, to save the drama we had seven threads ago, we have Maxwell as the leader if the Coursairs?

He would be the highest ranking officer among the former officers and would have the only ship that isn't officially derelict, even if it is only a Miranda.

>>50603720
That's one thing I liked about Scott Bacula's Captain. If he didn't like what you were doing, he'd tell you to fuck off. And then make you if you didn't get the point.

At least, when the Vulcans didn't have a hold of his leash.

>>50603686
>>50603720
>>50603721

This is probably more realpolitik than the writers intended, but to me it looks an awful lot like the UFP gave in to Cardassian demands in order to tease them into a situation where they would press their luck and attack the Federation, believing erroneously that the UFP was weak.

And then, with the swell of public support and the assistance of their sometimes unfriendly ally, the Klingon Empire, they'd put the Cardassians down hard like they deserved in the first "war".

The problem was that the Klingons decided to conquer Cardassia first, prompting the Cardassians to throw in with the much stronger Dominion who had designs of their own.

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>>50603922
Well the Klingons did have shapeshifters pushing them out of fear of shapeshifters getting a foothold in the area via the Cardassians. Which they then did because fucking shapeshifters are the worst.

>>50603957

>shapeshifters are the worst

I love how the Founders clearly are unable to see that they aren't helping their situation by being everything that solids fear about shapeshifters.

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>>50603686
>>50603720
This is my interpretation of what happened. Cardies saw the threat of Federation expansion (major projection there), and decided to preempt them, and started a conflict that got them net gains because of Federation notions of civility and fairness.
>This is probably more realpolitik than the writers intended, but to me it looks an awful lot like the UFP gave in to Cardassian demands in order to tease them into a situation where they would press their luck and attack the Federation, believing erroneously that the UFP was weak.
I wish I could believe this, but I can't.

>>50604135
The Feds can be pretty cold blooded when they want to. Also, the Cardassians seemingly had a hard time believing that not everyone shared their same societal values, which works against them.

>>50603957
Gowron looks like he's trippin' badly here.

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Bumping with a surprisingly fun ship considering it comes from the Kazon.

>>50608542
Huh. I thought theirs were all literal fucking slugs

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>>50604177
>seemingly had a hard time believing that not everyone shared their same societal values, which works against them
That's fucking everyone in the Trek verse as far as I can tell. The only way you work out a compromise it seems in Trek is. Humans go where no man has gone before, in doing so stepping on someone's toes. They then get the shit blow out of them, war happens, millions die, UFP pull a deus ex somehow, write up peace treaty and boom we have a new neutral zone. Tell me it isn't this way with the Feds every fucking time because it sure seems that way to me.

>>50609636
Their bigger ships are, but the raider's something out of Buck Rogers, I love the little thing.

>>50608542
I always thought the Amazon ships looked great. Shame about how they were actually shit in the show. I wonder if they were intended to be a much longer term badguy.

>>50611131
Kazon*

Question. Why aren't the Kobali seen as one of the worst possible evils in the Galaxy?

>>50612962
Because they are peaceful and not everyone cares about dead bodies. It seems humans were the first that retained their memories, too, so there isn't weird stuff with that normally.

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>>50612962

While taking corpses might seem reprehensible, the kobali need them to reproduce, since whatever happened to them long ago that caused them to discover the corpse reanimating/rewriting thing made them all sterile.

Dead bodies are things. They might have once been people, but they're dead and gone and the kobali are just using them to make more of their own people. Seems horrific on the surface, but if you take a step back, it's really not terrible.

I would be fine with the kobali if all they did was steal corpses. However, that's not what apparently happened in STO - they found an old vaadwaur cryo sleep facility, and then chose not to resuscitate the vaadwaur and relocate them - which, while a reasonable caution, doesn't excuse what they did next.

Instead of trying to find a solution, they decided that they would just allow living people dependent on old and failing medical machines to survive to simply die. It was more convenient than dealing with potential vaadwaur insurgents, and they got to harvest the corpses to perpetuate their species.

As bad and terrible as the vaadwaur are, I'm not okay with the kobali murdering people through inaction. They could have opened the cryo chambers of anyone who was in danger of dying, resuscitated them, and tried to find a way of dealing with that. But they didn't.

I'm not overly fond of the kobali for that, but I understand that it was not every single kobali who was culpable. No doubt only their leadership even knew about the vaadwaur ark. But, they could have prevented the ark from even being a problem by reviving the vaadwaur in the ark in small groups and finding a place for them elsewhere where they would not only be unable to prosecute a war, but the vaadwaur civilians could have gotten on with their lives.

If Gaul's vaadwaur had arrived to take the ark from the kobali, but found that there were no longer any vaadwaur in the ark, he'd have looked much, much worse than he did.

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>>50613334

Furthermore, Gaul's attack on the kobali is somewhat justified. As the leader (dictator) of his people, Gaul had a responsibility to protect them, or at least pay lip service to the idea. The vaadwaur in the ark were hostages of a foreign power that was murdering them, and then stealing the corpses.

This doesn't excuse the fact that Gaul is a murdering, imperialist bastard so concerned with getting revenge for the vaadwaur's defeat 600 years ago that he made a deal with alien devils so he could rearm his military and brutally attack anyone within (and without) the borders of the old vaadwaur empire.

>>50612962
If that really is a concern to the deceased or relatives. You could always burn the body or just leave it as energy when transporting it. It's not like there aren't ways to make it where you can't make the body unusable to the Kobali if you wanted. Most races don't give a shit what happens to a body after it's dead like the Klingons and most UFP races like humans should be since they are now godless soulless bastards now.

>>50613140
>>50613334
>>50613388
I suppose most of my concerns stem from the notion that Humans remember their past lives. They wake up, having experienced death, slowly being transformed into something els. That sounds like the biggest existential crisis ever.

And given their choice when dealing with the Vaudwaar ark, I can't really blame the Vaudwaar for their attacks. It's clear that their primary target was the ark entrance. So, despite the Vaudwaar's pre-existing habit of being complete assholes, their primary goal on Kobal(Kobali prime?) was to save any surviviors.

Now, no doubt the Vaudwaar planned to kill all the Kobali regardless, but the zealof their attacks was clearly informed by the fact that their kith and kin (remember, the present Vaudwaar populace are from similar arks) are being transformed against their will.

I don't think, given the full facts, that Starfleet would opt to help the Kobali. Here's why:

1) The Kobali's current situation is of their own making. And I mean that in more ways than one. The Vaudwaar are singling out the Kobali for abusing their people and intentionally keeping them in stasis until they die. But the decline of the Kobali people is a direct result of their own meddling. The Kobali destroyed their reproductive capability via meddling with their genome. And if the Federation has proven anything, its that it will happily watch a race suffer if it is "the will of the larger universe".

2) At best, the Kobali are holding the Vaudwaar as civilian hostages, at worst they're experimenting on civilians for personal gain. Last time I checked, the Federation weren't fond of either of those possibilities.

3) The UFP is extremely human-centric. Most of Starfleet are Human. How would you feel serving alongside people that, if you die, may revive you and then slowly erase your previous identity to serve their own needs. I know I wouldn't sign up for that gig.

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>>50613521

Two of the things I like the least about TNG is the idea that humans have abandoned any kind of beliefs. It's just not in human nature. There's always going to be someone who believes that there is some kind of divinity (and how can they not, with so many godlike beings running around? Surely there must be one that fits their particular requirements for faith), there's always going to be that person who claims the vulcans are behind everything the UFP has ever done, that the vulcan science counsel knew about the borg, covered it up, and allowed Wolf 359 to happen in order to take even more control over the Federation and Earth. Heck, there's even people who believe Section 31 exists!

The other issue is the notion of humans abandoning their own culture for the most bland, uninteresting distillation of western civilization. Western culture is a good thing, don't get me wrong. Without it we wouldn't have notions of personal freedom, democracy, and basic human rights - but the Federation has this weird stance that there's nothing of value in Earth's old ethnic cultures. The most French we see Picard is that he's somewhat proud of his ancestors, and his brother owns a vineyard.

It isn't until DS9 that we see some of this change, whatwith Sisko and his father having an awareness of their own history, and a passion for the food and values of their cultural background. O'Brien too, and even Keiko (despite coming off as a horrible person) has an awareness and pride in her Japanese ancestry.

None of them allow that to get in the way of being Starfleet, or Federation, or even human. But they aren't these weird, sterile humans that TNG presented us with (at least in the early seasons).

>>50613334
>>50613388
>believing Vaaduar propaganda
Yah, suddenly after 900+ years, and who knows how long with Kobali occupation, that all these pods are failing all at once. Sure.

>>50613863
Starfleet would help the Kobali.
1. They asked for it.
2. They are warp-capable.
3. The conflict isn't internal - it's a different space empire against the Kobali.
4. Their antagonists are also antagonists of Starfleet and the Alliance, regardless of the Kobali situation.
5. The Kobali are friendly, and open to the idea of joining the DQ alliance.
6. The Federation is quite willing to overlook a lot of shady, unethical, immoral, or even straight-up evil crap, if it goes along with their political interests (see: Klingon alliance, everything to do with Cardassians, etc.).

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>>50613863

>humans turned kobali

Yeah. This is an issue. They've been revived, recall their past, and then slowly experience identity death. This isn't a good thing, but, they were dead before. I'm not saying it isn't horrific, but the alternative is permanent death (which I'm sure, some would prefer).

>kobali/vaadwaur situation

I think the UFP would have gotten involved anyway. The vaadwaur were attacking everyone and destabilizing the region, up to and including kicking the voth's teeth in. You've got to respect the vaadwaur for that, if nothing else.

Would the UFP have had serious issues with the ark, and would have wanted to deal with that as soon as possible? Yes. Would it have strained relations between the UFP and the kobali? Yes. Would it have prevented the Federation from intervening? Doubtful. They needed to stop the vaadwaur, build an alliance in the Delta Quadrant to stop the iconians, and get access to the underspace corridors.

The UFP has its ideals, but they can also be pragmatic when they have to.

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>>50613970

The ones on vaadwaur prime were failing too, from the episode that introduced the vaadwaur.

>all at once

No, I bet they've been failing one or two at a time each year for decades. Still doesn't change the fact that the kobali did nothing about it, except circle like vultures.

>>50614036
>reviving the vaaduar
>ever
The Kobali don't seem to be popular already. We know the various space kingdoms remember the Vaaduar. Helping the Vaaduar in any way seems pretty dumb, even ignoring the Vaaduar themselves. Not getting involved, and letting them die naturally, seems the prudent thing to do; that the Kobali benefit directly from that is coincidental.

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>>50614089

Except not intervening is murder, the same as if you had your foot on the brakes of a truck, but instead of putting your foot down to stop it, allowing said truck to roll over the person lying unconscious in front of your tires.

Like as not, many of those vaadwaur were civilians rather than soldiers. However imperialist the vaadwaur state and leaders may be, individual vaadwaur are no more evil than the Cardassians.

>>50614149
>Except not intervening is murder
Is it really? Might not be entirely ethical (by our modern Western standards at least), but it isn't murder.
>the same as if you had your foot on the brakes of a truck, but instead of putting your foot down to stop it, allowing said truck to roll over the person lying unconscious in front of your tires
That isn't the same thing at all. In that case you are responsible for the truck, and whatever happens with it, because you have control of the truck. The situation is more like being the owner of the parking lot where the truck just ran over the guy - who is obviously still alive, but will just as obviously die from the injury - and not doing anything to help him. Also, the guy is wearing a Nazi uniform, and it isn't Halloween.

>>50613872
>The most French we see Picard is that he's somewhat proud of his ancestors, and his brother owns a vineyard.
And, of course, his distinctive French accent.

>>50614149
>Except not intervening is murder
That's like saying if you had Borg in a slowly dying ship. You would not just keep your distance and not wait and just let nature take it's course. And then reap the benefits when you know the bastards are well and truly dead. To that area of space the Vaadwaur are as bad as the Borg, so that the Kobali just didn't just kill them all off in their sleep like they deserved. I think speaks a lot to their restrain. To a lot of the races in that region the Vaadwaur were monsters.

>>50614296
There's a theory bandying about that during WW3, England invaded France and took over a notable chunk of it.

Serves to explain the Picards at least beyond the production staff not wanting Patrick Stewart to be doing a French accent the entire time, and doesn't seem that unreasonable. It doesn't really change anything.

>>50614292

Leaving aside my personal view that it's murder, allowing someone to die because it's politically inconvenient to save their life is justified then?

>>50614341

The Borg are also extremely dangerous, and helping even a single drone runs the risk of that single drone converting you, your ship, and your crew into more Borg. And even then, Picard still did. As did Janeway, although that was more for her own gain, and because she was stuck with Seven after the Borg (predictably) reneged on their deal.

This is vastly different from having a helpless person whom you may not like or agree with politically at your mercy, in need of medical attention, and incapable of hurting you so long as you take reasonable precautions.

>>50614424
>helpless person
>mercy
You are saying that like the Kobali needed to show mercy to anyone especially the Vaadwaur of any standing. And I don't think any Vaadwaur are really innocence in this. Their government was run by monsters and they benefits from that. So saying mercy was a thing you have to give to anyone in need of it is wrong. Just being the bigger person I know is the theme of the settling but in this case it would have been the wrong thing to do. If the Kobali did help them what then? What do you do with people with no home with a lot of other races that still have an axe to grind with them? The Kobali don't really want to help the bastards and just keeping them around in an awake state would only be more of a headache for them. So the best thing to do for the Kobali to let them die and have a new life as Kobali. Since as Vaadwaur they would be kind of doomed anyway.

>>50614653

Assuming for a moment that all of the vaadwaur were under arms:

Is it justified then to allow them to die? They would be prisoners of war in this situation, enemy soldiers, effectively captured before they could ever begin to fight. If they were awake, would it be justified to starve them, and "let nature take its course"?

In same vein, was it justified of the Soviets to starve German soldiers because they wore the uniform of the Third Reich?

>>50614715
>In same vein, was it justified of the Soviets to starve German soldiers because they wore the uniform of the Third Reich?
Karma is a bitch ain't it anon. Those Germans also served a bad stabbing regime so what they got was kind of coming to them. I mean seeing how Hitler treated his own troops on the eastern front. I think the German soldiers got off easy what their leaders did. The Russians should have used them as target practice or made them dig their own graves and then thrown them in. I think that's what they deserved.
Back to topic, if the Kobali were really mean they should have just handed the Vaadwaur they had over to the other races. And let them face the justice they deserve with just the request that the dead would be given over to them in a state they could use. And then washed their hands of it.

>>50611131
Afaik they were just shit tier delta quadrant klingons

>>50615248

>prisoners of war have no rights
>citizens of a nation deserve to be punished for the atrocities of the their leaders
>soldiers are not considered victims of the leader's ambitions
>there is no innocence, only guilt or guilt by association
>civilians deserve to die because their leaders are bad

Alright. I'm done. And to think, I get yelled at for how I treat video game characters.

>>50613872
>Federation has this weird stance that there's nothing of value in Earth's old ethnic cultures.
At least it got spotted and cleared up pretty quickly - although in spite of the things you listed in DS9 the only real example of "well yknow maybe godless soulless atheism doesn't know EVERYTHING" I've seen elsewhere was on Voyager, and that was where the sky spirits Chakotay's ancestors worshipped (and that he'd kinda lost interest in) were actually ayylmaos. Done...less hamfistedly as it sounds, though. Honest, not shilling.

Well, plus there's the fact that we know Generic Injuns kept a decent portion of their culture when they made it to space. That's a thing, too.

>>50615248
That's not a reasonable point of view anon. What you're saying is essentially "if our enemies act like animals, we are permitted to act the same way." And that's the sort of bullshit excuse that regimes have used countless times throughout history to justify atrocities. Countless Empires, the Nazis, the Soviet Union. More recently, and perhaps more partisan for many of you, Muslim extremist have used this justification to carry out acts of violence against Americans and Europeans. By your line of thought they are justified. No doubt American military personnel have been directly responsible for the deaths of Muslim civilians, as have French and British soldiers. So in turn are we to assume that the wholesale slaughter of our populations is the rational response? This is the core flaw of the "eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth" philosophy, essentially it makes the hypocritical claim that "it's okay when we do it, but not when they do" as a justification for the laziest form of diplomacy; violence and cruelty.

Cruelty for the sake of self-satisfaction/self-advancement is never warranted. It is the fundamental breakdown of any faith in civilized society in pursuit of one's most base wants and lusts. It is the rot that destroys Empires and turns us against one another.

That was entirely off topic but it is something I feel very strongly about. Anyway...

>they should have just handed the Vaadwaur they had over to the other races
Why? These, in-cryostasis Vaudwaar have committed no crimes, at least not in the last millennium. How is it just for the Kobali to choose to abuse their helplessness? How would it be right for them to turn them over to the Taurei or the Kazon, just to satisfy their physical need to enact cruelty against "the enemy".

Perhaps the Federation would support the Kobali because they share a common enemy, but they would not, and should not, support actions that inherently reduce the value of life to a resource to be expended and traded.

>>50615477

I suppose I can accept Chakotay as an example of Earth person who hadn't entirely given up on his culture, but it's kind of insulting to think that as an Indian, his spirits and gods are just aliens... and they gave his people sapience/language because they "respected nature."

TV writers man. And Trek in general with its fascination with aliens-as-gods and godlike aliens in general.

And that's not even getting into the fact that Chakotay is from a made up Indian tribe, who exists solely so the writers don't have to do research, and can't accidentally offend a still living group of people.

>>50615397
>only the very top brass are bad, everyone else is dindus
>the moment after you help them to beat off Gaul, Eldex immediately continues blowing the shit out of everyone

Also,

>>50614424
>incapable of hurting you so long as you take reasonable precautions
[distant Voyager laughter]

>>50614715
>would it be justified to starve them
Except it's not like that, is it? They were leaving them in pods created by the Vaadwaur themselves without actively interfering with them. Starving them would be draining power from them, or from the facility as a whole - leaving them there only continues whatever they were already undergoing. It's more akin to them being captured POWs being fed only captured stocks of their own side's rations; you're not actively trying to take their lives or shorten them, but if they die of malnutrition? Tough shit.

Seriously, I'm more than a little uncomfortable with how casual
>Karma is a bitch ain't it anon.
>I think that's what they deserved.
is, but if individual Vaadwaur weren't the hitler their bosses were, individual Kobali sure as fuck weren't

>>50615397
You do get that you only think that because society like that of the UFP has hammer that into you. Right, anon. You think that life and rights are basic 'human' rights.
Well, here's a shock you're in the minority who really think that in this world. Like in Trek everyone else is much much less nice than the poor Fed mindset can take. The universe in Trek as we have seen over and over again is an incredibly harsh place outside of core UFP worlds. There is very little mercy in this galaxy outside of the UFP. EVERYONE IN THIS SETTLING ARE SELF SERVING BASTARDS AND WILL HAPPILY WALK OVER SEVERAL BURNING WORLDS TO GET WHAT THEY WANT! I mean the Kobali are one of the more nicer races that are mostly peaceful but there will always put themselves first.
>TFW UFP is full of naïve idiots.
That's not really a surprise, they can have their beliefs but to believe that others should value what you believe over their own. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
I mean I like Trek but the Feds are asshats most of the time.
Well, the Russians did do also do a lot of that as payback for what the Germans did to their country so it is understandable they wouldn't be merciful.

>>50615642
>And Trek in general with its fascination with aliens-as-gods and godlike aliens in general.
You know, this wouldn't be so bad if they ever played around with the formula a bit. Like, just ONCE. Hell, SG flipped it round and turned it into "ayylmaos came to Earth/elsewhere, SAW the existing beliefs, and pretended to be those gods", from the fucking get go. (Also it's doubly good in that it's less dismissive of existing beliefs and offensive as a whole).

>who exists solely so the writers don't have to do research, and can't accidentally offend a still living group of people
Shit, I never thought of it like that. Dammit. I'm starting to see the vaunted diversity of Voy as being more and more token.

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>>50615682
>Other people aren't nice
>Therefore we shouldn't be and should abandon our morals and principles.
O-okay anon.

>>50615655

Eldex is not a better alternative than Gaul, clearly. He was an ally of circumstance. But there is that group of vaadwaur who want out of the war, and they trade their knowledge of the underspace corridors for clemency and a chance to start over. It's one of the few times STO gives you any kind of choice (meaningful or not), and I gave them that chance, rather than kill them.

>individual kobali aren't as bad as their leaders

Obviously. I even pointed that out >>50613334
here.

>>50615682

>human rights shouldn't exist

Okay. I see you have no love of Western civilization, or the tradition of law, human dignity, rationality, science, and all of the products thereof.

You'd rather that people take what they want, when they want, through violence if necessary, with zero recourse but your own cunning and capability for violence.

That's fine. I don't want to live in a world like that. And yes, I will use violence to defend myself, and my values if necessary. It's a fact of life that not everyone is as "live and let live" as I am.

>UFP are naive

No. I think the UFP generally tries to have people's best interests in mind, and respects individual liberty, the dignity and value of sapient life, and the order of law.

The fact that you don't value those things is irrelevant.

And for the record - I'm not some naive idealist. I understand that I have no rights except for what I'm willing to defend or take for myself. However, I'd rather do that through law, the consent of my fellow citizens, and through rational argument than violence. Even if its not perfect, it's better than the alternative.

Becoming a savage and compromising your moral integrity because other, equally awful people are willing to do so is not something to be proud of.

>>50615682
>>50615855
>You'd rather that people take what they want, when they want, through violence if necessary, with zero recourse but your own cunning and capability for violence.
ITT: we discover Ancaps play STO

>>50615855
>Becoming a savage and compromising your moral integrity because other, equally awful people are willing to do so is not something to be proud of.
Hey, I believe that stuff, too. But in Trek I have not disillusions that in the bigger universe that I'm in the minority. That the easy thing to do is what most others will do. And they will justify it however they want to get their way. Most races in Trek are not UFP and are self serve bastards and even some in UFP and Star Fleet are also self serving bastards. You can have your beliefs that's fine but the other guy has just as much right to his. If you don't like that other person beliefs well tough shit, anon. The rest of the space empires are nasty things to outsiders and you would I guess not like them one bit but they have just as much right to believe and do what they want as much as you do. That they might fall one day because of their flaws is unimportant. Since the UFP could just as easily fall apart to it's own hubris, too. Think it is better than other space empires when in the long run it really isn't.
>>50615736
>morals and principles.
But you are still putting your own hubris over others. Klingons, Romulans, and everybody bloody else in the settling have their morals and principles they are just very different than yours. You just like the Feds come across as incredibly self righteous and arrogance which I point out is what a lot of alien races think of the UFP especially the humans.

>>50576819
It's not as much as values as it seems to be just human nature. There is several studies of human sexuality and those have produced a scales that most humans end up in. In the opposite ends are pure straight/homosexual people who can't even look at naked body of same/opposite sex person without having negative reaction. Most people will end somewhere between.

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>>50616210

>people have different beliefs and a right to them

Sure. Agreed. But their rights end when they infringe mine. And if that means violence or war, than that's what it comes down to. I don't have to be happy about it, and I don't have to go further than my morals deem necessary.For example, just because the klingons don't take prisoners doesn't mean I have to kill everyone on disabled ships, and according to my own moral compass, I am obligated to rescue those who are in danger of death or injury on said ships.

And before you put words in my mouth, I mean AFTER the fight is over and won. I'm not going to risk my people getting shot at or killed during a foolhardy rescue operation while enemy combatants who are still capable of injuring or killing us are still out there.

There's a difference between mercy and stupidity.

>moral and principle differences

Not that particular anon, but I hope you aren't asserting that moral relativity is a good thing, because I don't think rape, murder, cannibalism, and pederasty are acceptable morals or principles, and just because a group of sapients different from me think they are doesn't mean I have to put up with it, condone it, or allow it.

If that makes me a self-righteous, cultural imperialist, so be it.

I do agree that the Feds come of as extremely smug and self-righteous - in a bad way. Because more often than not, I disagree with their morals. Like leaving people to die to natural disasters. Even Kirk argued that saving someone at the risk of damaging their culture through the knowledge of space travel and the Federation was better than letting them die.

>>50616366
>
I do agree that the Feds come of as extremely smug and self-righteous - in a bad way. Because more often than not, I disagree with their morals. Like leaving people to die to natural disasters. Even Kirk argued that saving someone at the risk of damaging their culture through the knowledge of space travel and the Federation was better than letting them die.

This, this this. I feel like Cryptic made the situation so that, whether or not you thought the kobali were right or wrong, the UFP sure as hell was for washing their hands in the basin of "lol it's just their quirky local customs bro"

>>50616366
>klingons don't take prisoners doesn't mean I have to kill everyone on disabled ships, and according to my own moral compass
You know Archer did just that in ENT, right? The Klingons were not happy about it and WERE NOT THANKFUL! You see that's the problem with Feds/humans they impose their beliefs too much on others and expect a thank you. It is really annoying that they keep doing this when they know the better course is just to turn the other way and MIND YOUR GODDAMN BUSINESS! I think the bullshit that is UFP morals needs a bit of fixing. I think it fine to be a self righteous prick at home and in you own territories but you have to get that the universe works by a very different set of rules when you are far from home. Remember as Star Fleet you are the trespasser when far out in space and the locals always retain the right to blast your ass to dust if they see fit. The Ideal of Star Fleet is definitely not the same as the reality of Star Fleet.

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>>50616896

I've seen all of ENT, yes. I don't think Archer was wrong either. That they weren't thankful is on them. Archer should not be required to sacrifice his morals (shaky and confused though they may be) if the klingons are not also expected to do the same.

>MIND YOUR GODDAMN BUSINESS!

It's pretty much impossible. Trade, technology, people, they're all going to mingle. A nation and a people cannot be isolationist and expect that others will leave them alone simply because they aren't personally bothering anyone.

This is particularly true in the klingon's case. They aren't interested in letting people mind their own business. They're either under the heel of the Empire, respected allies, or enemies.

However, ENT spends much of its time on Archer making poor judgment calls and pissing off the neighbors rather than acknowledging that he's a little fish in a big pond with zero backup until Columbia can be made ready. It's different when you've got a big powerful nation and its navy at your back.

Like how he exposes his allies and their intelligence gathering operation on P'Jem. Was it underhanded and damaging that the vulcans were spying on the andorians and claiming that they weren't? Certainly.

Was destroying the surveillance equipment, damaging the monastery, and courting the andorians as possible allies without the approval or consent of his government the best way to handle it? Probably not.

It's a very, very good thing it was Shran and not someone like Kor that Archer was dealing with.

>>50616896
>I think it fine to be a self righteous prick at home and in you own territories but you have to get that the universe works by a very different set of rules when you are far from home. Remember as Star Fleet you are the trespasser when far out in space and the locals always retain the right to blast your ass to dust if they see fit. The Ideal of Star Fleet is definitely not the same as the reality of Star Fleet.


Q desperately tried teaching this to Picard by, among other things, throwing his ship at a Borg cube.

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>>50599573
>>50599401
>>50599657
>>50599965
>>50600041
>>50600452
So the Starfleet equivalent of the Reavers?

Because that's where this is heading.

Hold me, I'm fucking scared.

>>50617106
Archers actions on P'Jem were probably entirely fueled by his dislike of the Vulcans and desperation for a new ally that thought like he did.

>>50616366
>If that makes me a self-righteous, cultural imperialist, so be it.
And you wonder why like half the alien races in Trek hate the humans while the rest laugh at them behind their backs. See this is why I liked the humans in Stargate SG-1 so much better. They would try to stick to their morals without getting preachy about them. And would know when to leave things well enough alone when they had to. The TOS humans were more sensible it seems with even a bit of fatalism to their duty. While the TNG guys were total self entitled self-righteous, cultural imperialist pricks with a bit of a god complex at times. Where they thought their shit don't shit while everyone else could smell it a mile away. Where it was my way or the highway at times.

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>>50617321

The self-righteous cultural imperialist here.

The thing is, I most strongly prefer the TOS UFP, and I actively dislike the early season (and sometimes even late season) TNG/VOY UFP. I'm not going to pontificate about my morals to non-Federation types. I'll simply act on them, rather than shrug my shoulders and discard them because "everyone else in space is".

To put it simply:

It doesn't matter how others comport themselves. I am not concerned with that. I am, however, concerned with my own behavior, my own notions of honor and rightness. I will not let others dictate my morality to me.

It is mine, and mine alone. And I am responsible for living up to it... and living with it if I cannot.

I'm tempted to run a campaign based around running more low-level "scum" operating at the periphery of the Federation, analogous to Firefly a bit. I just don't know if it'd be worth it.

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>>50617581
>analogous to Firefly a bit
Speaking of which, you might like this fan project if you haven't seen it already. It does have a lot of cameos by notable Trek actors.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVjVBOhK33k
Star Trek: Renegades
If nothing else anon it might give you some ideas how you want to run your campaign.

>>50617581
Wasn't that the original core idea of DS9 before it got all political? Frontier "town" full of dubiously shady types and such?

>>50618004
To a degree, I think, but I figured there was always some intent to focus on the politics of the region with how big Bajor figured into the outline.
>>50617853
Thanks, I keep meaning to check it out, I'd heard it was at least worth a watch.

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>>50617581

>>50617853
>Renegades.
Well... they tried

>>50615964
I tried coming up trek themed ancap memes. Nothing remotely good comes to mind.

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>tfw we'll likely never have a great Star Trek game again

>>50621835

I've had a frustrating day anon. That was a thought I didn't need...

At least there's hope the good old ones will still be available in the future.

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>>50622319
I really wish GoG would get on with acquiring the rights to sell the other Interplay games and the Activision games. At the very least I'd like to see Chekov's Lost Missions, SFC2 + Expansion, Armada 1+2, Elite Force 1 + Expansion, Elite Force 2, Klingon Academy, New Worlds, SFC 3, and Bridge Commander added, although I have the terrible feeling none of that will happen.

>>50622555

I'm still optimistic, but we'll see. The licenses for games are hellish things that can end up in limbo because some shell company of some multinational bought the rights and parked them in a vault somewhere.

It's maddening.

That said, I really, really want the Elite Force games, Klingon Honor Guard, SFC2 and Orion Pirates... Armada as well, since I never played it.

>>50622637
I know there are reliable .isos for both elite force games that are easy to find, and used copies of some games are available relatively cheaply on Amazon

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>Jaylah

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZqFK4dcl2Q

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>>50624249
>TFW why does she look like a fantasy elf?
See that's why I really dislike the look of Beyond it just didn't look sci-fi enough to me. And I'm guessing the reason I didn't go see it, the main alien female just didn't look like see belonged in the settling. I'm guessing that's a bit bias on my part but I'm not the only one who feels this way, right? She looks like she belongs in a Skyrim movie than a Trek film.

>>50624767
>And I'm guessing the reason I didn't go see it, the main alien female just didn't look like see belonged in the settling.
I just wished the new Trek movies seemed anything like Star Trek. Or at least that they were about more than "punch 'em in the face" attitude, explosions and lens flare. Or that they didn't insult my intelligence and have more plot holes than plot. Or that Kirk wasn't so unlikable that I began to root against him. Fuck those movies.

>>50625013
Have you seen Beyond yet? It's way better than '09 or Into Darkness.

>>50625013
TOS was pretty adventure-y, and Kirk punched a lot of people in the face. Beyond genuinely felt like a Star Trek movie to me, which is more than I can say for either of the ones before it.

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>watching first half of ENT S1
>actual sense of exploration, wonder, and danger
>things feel relatively primitive compared to other Treks, as they should
>Mayweather, Hoshi get to have subplots and stuff not directly related to their duties on the bridge
When did it all go wrong and turn into VOY 2.0?

>>50625625
The minute the Temporal Cold War shit hit 11 and it was clear they had no plans regarding how it'd progress.

>>50624767
>She looks like she belongs in a Skyrim movie than a Trek film

That's not a great argument, given that one of Star Trek's most iconic races is essentially Space Elves.

>>50625018
No. Much like the Hobbit movies, I saw the first in the theater and said "fuck spending money to see another one of those." So I watched a pirated copy of the next and said "fuck wasting time watching another one of those." And I never watched the third.

I have heard that Beyond is better. But I've also heard it had even less substance beyond "action!" that the other movies. Regardless, I've grown to hate the style and even many of the characters of the earlier movies, and it would have to break radically from them in order for me to get into it (and not just be a bit better written, etc.).

>>50625028
>TOS was pretty adventure-y, and Kirk punched a lot of people in the face.
But there was much more to it than just punching people in the face. The fights were more amusing excursions than the main thrust of the show, which tended to be a bit cerebral. It was about grappling with a problem and exploring the human experience. Any depth the JJ movies have is undermined by how forced and ridiculous the plot is. Also, Kirk wasn't a petulant child in classic Trek. He wasn't out of control. He had a bit of swagger, but he didn't act without thinking or let his emotions completely control him. JJ Kirk needs to get beam into vacuum of space. Fuck that guy. And fuck the Jar Jar Binks-ish portrayal of Scotty. And Spock has none of the style or wit of the original. Young Bones is brilliant, granted, but he's not enough to save the movies or make me stop rooting for the bad guys... as lame as they may be.

>>50622555
>tfw I have every single one of those games on disk.
>tfw half of them no longer work on anything younger than an xp system.
>tfw when all I have now is a Windows 10 laptop.

Feels good and bad at the same time, anon

>>50625018
Even if the last nuTrek movie is the best of the bunch, it is still not enough for me to embrace the new settling that is JJTrek. Because a lot of his choices or the writers have poisoned me to the version of the characters, they have created. I would go for CGI Trek with sound a likes for new stuff over the shit that is JJTrek. They seem to be playing parodies of the characters than the actual characters they are meant to be.

alright /stg/ describe your favorite captain and first officer using the plinkett test

by this i mean describe them without using their appearance, job, or race/gender

>>50626699

Two words: Pimp Hand.

>>50626699
"I don't believe in no-win scenarios."

>>50626699
>Favourite Captain
Reserved and contemplative. Often willing to step back from the rash, obvious reaction and consider alternatives. More dedicated to the Justice and upholding laws/personal morality than to making the short-term best decision. A well rounded person, with numerous interests besides being captain, notably history and music. Despite all this, very hands on and able to look after themselves in a fight.

>Favorite First Officer
A natural leader, confident, fast thinking and concise. Perhaps a tad cocky but more than capable of backing up their bravado with their skills. Ambitious without being obsessed by their career. Willing to challenge authority when it conflicts with their morals and beliefs. A bit of a trickster.

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>>50626234
Make backups of them just in case. Also I can't remember the name but isn't there a Win98 equivalent of dosbox?

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Out of curiosity, what other boards/threads does /STG/ frequent?

Personally, I /bfg/(when it's around) and /wbg/ on /tg/. I also regularly post on /lit/ and /vg/, the former just for general discussion and the latter for /gsg/ and /twg/.

>>50628278
I've tried various OS-emulators but either my coding ain't up to snuff or they're just not registering.

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>>50626699

>captain

I have crossed the line. Broken the law, abandoned principle, and committed an act of betrayal that should land me in prison for the rest of my life. Even then, I still feel my reasons are sound. I have done a terrible thing, for a greater good I desperately want to believe in, and I think I can live with that.

>first officer

Though I am an outsider, I have come to be close with my colleagues. I value their unique perspectives, even when they abandon all reason, or rely on their particularly glandular reactions to guide them. They are men and women of principle, passionate and moral. Though they may not always see through my trained unflappable exterior, I would do anything to protect their lives. Not simply because it is my duty, but because I would be diminished without them.

One might say I am fond of them.

>>50628310

I'm an /osrg/ fag, so there's that. I avoid /lit/ because they have no desire to take what I read seriously, so I have no desire to treat them seriously. Other than that, I lurk and occasionally post on /d/, and /aco/ because Trek is responsible for giving me the Green Fever.

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>>50628929
>I avoid /lit/ because they have no desire to take what I read seriously, so I have no desire to treat them seriously.

I agree to an extent. /lit/ can be a great help when you get the right crowd. I've found some really great science fiction thanks to suggestion made there. And if you're in any way interested in writing or the publishing process, there are a cohort of people there that can offer great insight. At it's best, /lit/ is just the love of storytelling.

But you have just as much chance of getting ousted by the elitist assholes that stay there, pretending that no books have been written since the 1950's, and of those, only the ones that align with their world view are "classics". I get that. /lit/ is certainly an acquired taste. And even then it echoes everything wrong with modern academia on a regular basis. Success is reviled. Getting published for anything other than dry, nihilistic philosophy-wank apparently makes you a "sell out", writing without suffering is apparently impossible unless you're a shill and so on, so forth. A whole bunch of intellectual posturing, basically.

So I don't blame you 1 bit for avoiding the place like the plague.

And I think we all /aco/ once in a while.

>>50630735

The Nebby remodel sure looks great.

>>50626699
DID NOTHING WRONG

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>>50628310
/hwg/ mostly, on occasion; /awg/, /btg/, /an/, /vr/.

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>>50631147
Damn straight, you get a Nebbie.

>>50626699
>I CAN'T HEAR OVER HOW AWESOME I AM!

>>50628310
/v/, /ck/, /vg/, /pol/

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What was the worst conceived race that was ever introduced into Trek? And why is it, the Pakled?

>>50635432
The concept behind the Pakled is better than the realisation. I mean they're supposed to seem simple and harmless but actually be cunning and ruthless, but in a similarly stupid directorial decision that lead to the worst stereotyping of the Irish in star trek's long history of being shitty about the Irish in Up the long ladder, they got made into space retards.

>>50635547
i thought they already touched upon the space irish in that one episode where they find that planet of clones

>>50635547
What even remotely makes the pakleds like the Irish?

Well lads, just finished watching TNG on Netflix. Feeling some kind of emotion, don't know what.

Watched the final season as it aired on the rabbit ears in section 8 housing, as a kid. Now I'm 23, far from home in my own apartment and on Monday I go somewhere neither of my parents have gone before: a salaried job. Something I have wanted to do for a very long time has finished; something I have wanted to achieve for just as long will soon begin.

What do I do now?

>>50635588
Yes, that is the episode I mentioned.

>>50635666

He's not saying the Pakleds are like the Irish. He's comparing the poor decision to make the Pakleds the Space Short Bus Species with the similarly bad decision that portrayed the Irish as an offensive stereotype in the TNG episode "Up The Long Ladder".

It was so bad, Colm Meaney threatened to break contract if they ever did something like it again.

But yes, the Pakled are fucking terrible.

>>50635692
Watch DS9

>>50608542
i see i'm not the only one that uses the terran set on their kazon ship

>>50635741
Oh man, I remember that episode, although I never really connected them to the Irish, I just assumed they were a silly bunch of future space Amish.