Do we still hate Age of Sigmar?

I've never hated age of sigmar, making babies first war game to make it easier to bring in new customers is a smart move by gw. I hate that fantasy had to die to make it.

>>50541806
Is it still shit?

>>50541806
Considering that a few days ago, a thread asking about it descended into total war, I'ld say yes.

>>50541806
This art supposed to be cool?

>>50541806
Last time I checked it was still mediocre. They could have done the two things, a more simple mordheim and a simplicied mass battle game, and instead they made AoS.

They still look like Ultramarines who stole the Blood Angels' armour and fixed the paintjob, so yes.

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>>50541806
>hate AoS

No, we hate Tom "let me show you how it's done" Kirby for killing FB when his accountants demonstrated that he wasn't remotely as smart as he thought he was.

AoS is just disappointing.

AoS is growing, not dying like WHFB was.

So something is going right.

>>50541844
It's now pretty decent to be honest.

Once they get rid of "funny" rules, got points and fixed summoning, it became playable.

>>50542051
Well it's not had to see why WHFB was dying when it barely ever received updates. Seems more like they wanted an excuse to Make a more focus group-friendly game and the fact that WHFB was dying from neglect just happened to be convenient.

>>50541806
cant say for other people but personally i hate it completely for 2 reasons alone
fantasy WH had to die for it
the sigmarines look utterly retarded
they renamed all the factions from WH with stupid new names that make a layman even more confused as to what is what

>>50541806

AOS sucks in comparison to WHFB, it's an ok game, but the new models and artwork are just horrid..

>>50542285
Pretty sure that's 3 reasons.

>>50541806

The rules are still pretty crappy. They traded great old school fluff for subpar new fluff.

There are a fuck ton of better skirmish games out there.

AOS is a playable game now, but there still isn't a reason to actually start it unless you don't know any better.

>>50542051
>>50542117
I agree with anon, WFB got like no support and this was the era when fucking Kirby was like who needs to listen to players. Enjoy one week a quarter of next to no releases.

Remember how end times happened and people starter playing and WFB started selling?

Imagine what would have happened if they did AOS as a proper skirmish game from the get go with rules that would have functioned with a streamlined 9th edition WFB so that you could still use all your stuff and the new models.

There would have been some complaints, but the majority of people that left would have at least still been at least part time customers. Instead you have a year and a half of pretty much everyone saying fuck you GW. Half your veterans go support Mantic KOW instead of buying your shit. And you new primary game was a fucking failure to launch for a year while you band-aided it over and over.

>>50542363
Don't forget that FB was also pretty much directly competiting against lotr for new players a long time.

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>>50541874
I like Total War

>>50541806
yes

>>50542515
Good thing there is Total War: Age of Si...
OH WAIT!

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>mfw AOS is successful and WHFB are still bootyblasted

>>50541806
There has never been a"we," and I've never been able to get in to it. Thought it blew when it came out, and I still don't care for it.

>>50541806
Yes.

Shit art, shit setting, meh rules.

>>50542060

So basically, once it became a different game it was good?

Makes sense really.

>>50542363

It's funny, I started playing WFB when it was "on the decline" because I wanted a better game system than 40k which was totally fucked at that point.

Then they decided to basically reboot the whole thing and make the game into something literally nobody wanted to play. So I just game up on GW entirely.

Still don't regret my decision.

>>50541806
>Hate age of Sigmar

Why?

The game is basically free if you play stormcasts.

I've been to nearly 20 GW's and I always ask to do the paint tutorial. Get a free dude, spend 30 mins chatting / doing the tutorial game and then leaving. GW man is happy because he did his sales pitch, I'm happy because I get a mini I can go strip at home and read the rule book on stormcasts and basically extrapolate other units from there.

Next year I'm going to see if I can build a Space marine army out of the freebies.

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>>50542937

you devious criminal mastermind...

>>50542051
>AoS is growing,
>source: my ass

>>50541806
Shit setting, bland rules, terrible aesthetic.

I wouldn't say I hate it, but it's a real shame that GW didn't go with a better setting.

>>50541806
>>50543668
This essentially. The rules dont allow as many tactics as before, models are too busy while not looking ornate, lore is terrible and most of the people that HAVE picked it seem to have only done so because its new or they were 40k players and wanted to try something different.

Fantasy flagged for various reasons; it wasnt as marketed as well as 40k, it was older so more people had models for it, there was a huge lack of support for most races and special characters.

Fantasy was basically negelcted for 40k which is why we have the dynamic now of 40k being superior. Age of Sigmar has a lot of these same problems along with the ones outlined above

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Yes, it still has subpar rules, balance, stupid fluff, and the model designs are far less inspired (Not to mention scale bloat). You are much better off playing other games, especially if you want something that actually involves thinking. I honestly didn't have too much against the sentiment of rebooting or replacing WHFB, but they did it in all the wrong ways.

>>50541806
I never hated it. I welcomed the change. It's a very enjoyable game with friends and it brought loads of people into the store again.

>>50542924
Why are you here though?

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>>50541806
Not really. It's mostly only Hamsperglers or shitposters who bothers slinging crap at it.

>>50543262
Well, to play anon's advocate, do you have any proof that the sales of AoS are doing badly nowadays?
For now, GW results have been very positive for the past 6 months. Their last investor statement is proof that the company is doing well.
Obviously that success is mainly imputable to 40k I reckon, but AoS can't be doing that badly, especially with the General's Handbook.

>>50541806
Remember, the vast majority of posters on /tg/ don't play games.
Chances are, they're just parroting opinions after jumping on a bandwagon that stopped being relevant months ago.

>>50542554
Oh, give it time, Anon. Soon enough we will see Age of Sigmar video games choking out WHFB video games.

Fuck AoS.

A game starts in the setting, and that setting is shit.

>>50543925
Why on earht are those legs painted silver/grey. Fucking hell a dark woody brown would be perfection on those. TRIGGERED

>>50541806
It was still the cause for whfb death
so yes

>>50541806
with a vengeance

>>50544047
Not going to happen. Does AoS even have fanart and stories?

>>50544187
there are a lot of seraphon pics for one

>Do we still hate Age of Sigmar? Yep I do and I didn't even play wfb either. It's just not fun.

"Run to the center of the board and roll 4+" the game

Also Gw isn't giving it any good updates either. It seems like the ogre and "slayers" AoS updates were a complete flop and they've directed their attention to advancing 40k. And for some reason I haven't seen anyone play AoS at my lgs since the generals handbook came out. They all just dropped it to start other games

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>>50544120
I think financials was the death of WHFB.

>>50544093
No idea.

>>50544187
Oh, but it will. AoS is a perfect base for a moba game. With the moba game the fanart will follow and also waifus.

>>50544232
Ha, what waifus in AoS? Everqueen again?

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>>50544260
Alarielle is pretty waifuable.

I'll keep hating it until they bring back Tomb Kings.

>>50544279
And that's it. The full list of AoS waifus with a single entry.

>>50544322
They will just make some up. It's AoS so their introduction doesn't have to make sense.

>>50544279
Am I the only one who wants a model of the bug she's riding without the stupid dryad bitch on top? All the effort to make that awesome beetle and they bury it under her ass.

>>50544337
There is little room for them to begin with.

>>50544377
That beetle would make a cool Tyranid model

>>50541806
YES FUCK AGE OF SHITMAR

>>50544384
Nah. They wont even have I'm iaturethan and they will be forgotten in 5 years time like all other waifus.

>>50544467
Fucking autocorrect and ahort attentionspan.
>I'm sure that they will be forgotten*

>>50544219
>I think financials was the death of WHFB.
Sorry redshirt, but 8th edition was WHFB death.
>>50544279
>transgender
>hijab
>waifuable
Eternal Anglo, etrnal Anglo never changes

>>50543931
>For now, GW results have been very positive for the past 6 months.
Thanks to 40k and TWW and BFG

>>50544219
>I think financials was the death of WHFB.

No shit sherlock, but do you genuinely think whfb was properly administrated?
it was badly supported to the point it was put in a vicious circle of negative feedback, stood in that pitiful state with its problems ignored for years and then was definitely killed to leave room for AoS whom main (on some scales of relevance, only too) objectively superior attribute is as a matter of fact being supported.

Imagine for a moment if whfb did receive the same kind of support instead of getting the end times:
>simultaneous rules update
>free main rules
>better scalability for lower models count
>tournament collaboration
>active faq&errata response
>discount bundles
>frequent releases
>subfactions exploration
>specialist boxed games
>non apocalyptic fluff advancement with each release
the last and the sigmarines would still cause a lot of bitching, but nothing on the same level of what's happened

>>50544689
I think at people might just be bored of generic fantasy or new customers thought it wa a Warcraft knockoff.

>>50544811

Ironically AoS looks more like that Warcraft/MOBA aesthetic than Fantasy ever did.

>>50544615
Does GW get any royalties on games sold?
Do they not just get money from selling the rights of using the IP?

The look of the sigmarines makes me want to vomit.

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Man... sometimes I hate being an adult so much! I just want to be 13 again, playing games all night long with not a care in the world. I had friends that where like minded, and we always started these great projects that led to awesome games.
Now though, full time job, family and "adult" friends is a fucking drag. The little to no time I have as free time, I glance over my shoulder to my hobby cabinet, only to pull up a chair to the computer and play some meaningless game (or even worse, watch other people paint and play miniature wargames!). No friends left with the spark, and no project really comes to life any more. The lack of effort is hanging like a fucking sack on their backs when it comes to anything /tg/ related, and when you ask them about the good´ol days, they will say "cant believe we threw away our childhood on such shit"....

And it fucking hurts...

>>50544879
>Does GW get any royalties on games sold?
Hyзб фccщквштп eщ epyшк aштфтcшфд кyзщкeю

>>50544875
It's what people like these days. It turns out that most people have shit taste in aesthetics.

>>50545006
And in English?

>>50543909
Here on thread or /tg/ in general?

>>50541806
I h8 them for flushing the whole Warhammer Fantasy setting down the shitter

>>50545219
It had been pretty shit for at least a decade before they flushed it down.

>>50542363
>Half your veterans go support Mantic KOW instead of buying your shit
You mean the veterans that bought their armies 10+ years ago and have barely bought anything since?

Why should GW give a shit?

>>50543909

I now play Infinity and Warmachine.

Stopped by this thread because I was genuinely curious as to what people thought of AoS now after a few years of it being out.

It looks like people aren't very happy with it.

>>50541898
It's not 'bad' but it's nothing compared to the standards we were used to with WHFB

>>50545301

Don't be a fucking moron.

New players are great and are you life blood. And yes veterans had army X and were not going to buy as money models for it, but that doesn't mean they wouldn't have bought models for another army. They are also more likely to buy that new fancy large kit GW likes to push now because they have already made a commitment. They are buying rule books for a different game and investing in new armies with that game. This is all money out of GWs pocket directly.

Then there is the fucking terrible press they got because of it. GW says fuck you veterans now veterans don't push their game. Even worse, they actively campaign against your game in support of other ones. Someone walks in the store new and players say don't buy that shit product this is what GW does to people. So much for recruiting new players. There was a time you could walk into a store and see everyone playing GW products and maybe two people playing something no one heard about. Well now that isn't the case. Game Stores are no long GW spaces any more. And GW has been closing their own stores for a while. There are stores GW has died completely because of their policies and game abandonment.

That is why GW should give a shit. That is why they returned their format to bring structure back to the game and also why they are bringing back specialist games.

>>50545213
On thread my slav friend.

>>50545337
Eh I'm not too worried, because >>50543955

>>50545301
>>50545301
> and have barely bought anything since?
Well, 8th edition have horrible models and rules, no wonder why none wanted to buy them.
>Why should GW give a shit?
Because such players will support the game no matter how it's unpopular, while casuals will move to the next mainstream game as soon as it appears.

>>50545730
Yeah, I can without a doubt say that I disliked most 8'th edition models. Most of them looked like ugly videogame characters.

>>50545646
Wew, that's a whole load of citation please.

Don't play GW anymore =/= don't play games.

>Only Sigmar'ed faction i want to play are Slaanesh daemons + Slaneesh Warriors
>No rules or models
Fucking hell GW release Aelves and Slaanesh already

Nah I finally started reading the books

You guys should really check out the AoS general and ask the Anons there on why they like it. Get some answers from those that actually play the game

>>50545466

>Calling people moron
>When you don't even realize that, all that matters is to make a profit

Dude, basic economics will tell you a new customer will spend more during his first 2-4 years than he will the next 10-20. Finding new players is therefore everything in a world where a company must make a profit.

You smart asses all sounds the same, you talk as if its 1990 still. When I started, home computer was barely a thing, the internet was un-heard of, and there wasn't much to do in terms of hobby. Sure, if you where rich (or had a rich dad), you could get in to RC cars, now theres a hobby that will eat your money. But mostly it was stuff like fishing, hiking, playing football. Shit that didn't cost a fortune. I played D&D at the time (already a nerd), but when I saw miniature wargames for the first time, my jaw was scraping the fucking floor! It was literally the coolest thing I had ever seen, and my mind just exploded!
Today, when you have kids that barely shrugs the shoulders for a home VR system. How the fuck are you supposed to impress the next generation with "toy soldiers"...
My point being, its a hard market, and miniature wargames hobby is slowly but surely dying. GW, the top dogs (for a long time at least), is still just a fly on the wall when you compare them to anything outside this thin slice of a hobby. Hell, just FF would probably eat them alive if they wanted to.

Anyways, now I'm just rambling away, key points;

>stop being stupid
>Stop thinking a company has any obligations to you
>Miniature wargames are not that expensive as far as hobbies go.
>I'm old...
>To a company, profit is all, and new players spend so much more than the veterans, thus new players = bread and butter
>As GW themselves have said "If you buy, you're a customer, if you don't.. .well, then you're not..."

>>50541806

I don't get to play anything as much as I would want. Being one of the former haters, I feel a bit sad to admit that AoS was fun. Simple, but fun.

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>>50545853
anon there are rules for Slaneesh Warriors and Daemons one the gw website, for example here are the rules for hellstriders.

>>50546088
Oh sweet, might have to pick up a Slaanesh Mortal army when i finish my current 40k projects

they could have literally just done age of smegmar skirmish gameplay in the fantasy universe instead of replacing the old world with world of warcraft + high fantasy overload cranked up to 6,000,000

>>50546251
I've had my fill of Sci fi tho

I like the High Fantasy of AoS it's ridiculous

>>50546251
No, WHFB was unsalvageable. It was less original and more boring than warmachine and that's saying something.

At least in AoS we are on your toes waiting for what's the next crazy thing.

>>50543818
>as many tactics as before

You mean like "go straight with your invincible block" or "Destroy everything with overpowered magic" or...

There was something else?

>>50546327
>next crazy thing
>shitty plebshit high fantasy

booooring

>>50545991
Did you even read the post?

Because the majority is not about how veterans generate more sales, but how they are one of the biggest marketing sources in a niche industry. A free marketing source. And how the whole debacle turned the free marketing source into almost 2 years of continuous bad press and support for competitors.

I am sure none of this had any effect on the slow sales and lukewarm response the biggest name in wargaming's new product. And how they could have simply turned that around it to positive press by just doing some appeasement.

>>50546431
Gnognards that play only 2000 points tournaments armies and that like steamrolling newbie off the table aren't good marketing anon. The best thing AoS did was getting rid of all of them.

>>50543208
>>50542937

Opportunity cost.

>>50544811
>I think at people might just be bored of generic fantasy or new customers thought it wa a Warcraft knockoff.
Anyone being into warcraft enough to look for a miniature game knockoff will know what actually is warhammer
People can't be tired with generic fantasy because the people into AoS are either warhammer fans looking for more of it or people getting attracted because it is generic fantasy in their eyes.

What in the end decided the shift to AoS was the novelty of the support it is receiving.

>>50546484
You can't tell the people in this thread that, anon, because they ARE the grognards you are talking about, and they will never accept that they are/were a part of the problem with Fantasy.
Things like that require introspection beyond what the self admitted literal autists of /tg/ are capable of.

>>50546567
They also keep a persistent meta plot now as well. Apparently people eat that shit up. I myself am to old to enjoy all the cheesy clichés that goes into it.

>>50545940
I did once, what I got was people bandwagoning on the stuff on the basis that it is new, people applying double standards on what could be done with AoS compared to old warhammer, people playing it because that's what the GW store driven local scene provides and simplicity of rules.

>>50546327
>what's the next crazy thing.
want to bet the next book will end with an explosion again? I won this bet 6 times already.

>>50546625
Better than stagnation. 10 years of "Archaon is about to invade" got old.

At least in AoS there is no status quo, It changes as the story moves.

>>50546625
I agree, but there's no discussion that episodic shit keeps people curious.

>>50546881
>Last book

>Vandus hits Skarbrand really hard with a thunder hammer
>Glottkin get washed up
>Archaon nom nom Thostos

What explosion?

>>50546881
Archaon as the everchosen was a huge plot mistake. WHFB didn't need its own version of Abaddon. He should have died at the Storm of Chaos campaign.

>>50546933
I find almost all extended action scenes is one of the most boring thing ever to read. I assume a lot of AoS is padded out with this?

>>50546484
>The best thing AoS did was getting rid of all of them.
>meanwhile 2k is only playable format in AoS

>>50542937

You can, but you basically only get bolter marines. Still, that can be 80% of your Battle Company if you go there enough times.

>>50546555

Something tells me his time isn't worth that much if he has the time to visit 30+ different GW stores just to get one basic model each, so it's not like he's missing out on being at his $50/hour job because of it.

>>50546881
>10 years of "Archaon is about to invade" got old.
Yeah "Ultra Grey Knights wins everything and saves the world" is totally fresh and interesting setting.

I look forward to when 40k gets as streamlined as AoS.

>>50547329
Stormcast don't win all the time. So yes, more interesting.

Also fuck off slav. l2english.

>>50547194
Not any more than WHFB campaign books.

>>50547410
>Stormcast don't win all the time.
Yeah they just cannot die and much stronger than other factions.

>>50547455
No, the Varanguard are much stronger and Archaon perma-killed many of them. Look at his model. It had helmets of Stormcast that died forever.

>>50547497
>No, the Varanguard are much stronger and Archaon perma-killed many of them.
Yet still they cannot win.

>>50547531
Isn't the setting as it stands that the Stormcast were winning at first, and then were basically pushed back to their home world, losing all the ground they took to Chaos forces?

>>50547329
But that's not the same thing nor true.

The equivalent is the minute to midnight where 40k has been stuck for the past 20 years, if you consider it a story, and not a setting for othet stories set somewhere between 30k and 40k.

>>50547531
Nope, they won. In the latest book and the in the book before, Every time the Varanguard fought Stormcast, the Stormcast lost.

>>50547562
Nope. Sigmarines are unstopable weapon against Chaos

>>50547589
No, they lost against the Varanguard.

>>50547572
>Every time the Varanguard fought Stormcast, the Stormcast lost.
Yes, but looks like you forgetting that most of these times was "the whole Black Legion assaulting 1 Blood Angels Company, after hours of battle Abbadon and his terminators finally breaking the resistance of scout squad".

>>50542554
>3 part series
>Old world
>New world
>Sigworld

>>50547631
Nope, it was an entire legion of Stormcast + allies vs an army of Varanguard.

>>50547589
They why does Chaos exist in the setting?
Wouldn't that mean they already won?

>>50547663
>They why does Chaos exist in the setting?
Because of GW setting development where they can always pull few daemon worlds out of their asses in any moment.

>>50547659
>it was an entire legion of Stormcast
1k
>allies
Few IG regiments.

>>50547706
I don't think Fantasy works like that, anon.
It seems more and more like you are trying to ruse me, because what the other anon is saying actually connects with what I have read myself so far.

>>50547726
>Army of Varanguard.

Just 25 guys and one girl.

>>50547776
>I don't think Fantasy works like that, anon.
It's how soulless multiverse works.

>>50547780
Okay, now it's starting looks like shitty SH story. Yet still it didn't affect on the setting.

>>50547826
I have no idea what you are talking about.

>>50547850
Battle 25 superheroes against big army which doesn't affect on setting looks a little invalid and totally bad

>>50546881
>10 years of "Archaon is about to invade"

but archaon is already stated to being in the preparation to invade/drag azyr into chaos, except now GW arbitrarily decided he needed more mcguffins

>>50547903
It affected the setting, though.

>>50548005
>It affected the setting,
It didn't since setting doesn't have any kind of borders and limits.

>>50547965
After his return from Varanspire, the book says that Chaos was disordered and needed to be united once again. In first stages of the war, he sent the chaft to fight the Stormcast to but sometine, then he sent the Varanguard to crush them where it mattered. After he gaining some cohesion, the Chaos armies started invading Azyr. The first Chaos armies to cross into Azyr were met by vicious counter attacks by the Seraphon.

So the story is progressing. The armies of Chaos are making their way to Azyr and made it inside. It's not stuck "they will invade soon" for 10 years straight.

>>50548038
It has characters.

And characters died.

>>50548131
buy some time*

>>50548131
>It's not stuck "they will invade soon" for 10 years straight.
It's already stuck since GW can now delay "final stage" fro 10 years.
>>50548152
>It has characters.
Unimportant characters.

>>50548197
>Unimportant characters.

That's your opinion, not a fact.

>It's already stuck since GW can now delay "final stage" fro 10 years.

Proof? Maybe next book will have Azyr invasion.

I played AoS a couple times when it first released. Couldn't handle the lack of structure.

Picked up the generals handbook and have played every couple weeks or so at my FLGS but still have some gripes.

Setting is absolute shit IMO, it is more original but I enjoyed the aspect of a grim dark LOTR setting, much in the way that 40k is grimdark Star Wars.

The argument that WHFB was dead or dying. Well it wasn't supported. Once all the old timers stopped playing in game stores and moved to their basements GW lost a huge amount of free marketing that was the driving force of getting new players to join the game. This Is entirely a result of GW failing to update armies and continuing to fail to deliver a balanced game.

Next, the points released don't effectively balance the game. Crazy synergies, and non universal game mechanics mean that seven out of ten match ups are determined before setup even begins. Some armies just can't compete with others. In older editions I really liked the feeling that anything could happen in the course of a game. You could strategize but ultimately the ebb and flow of battle could swing either way. This was possible because of the plentiful rules that could come into play in a game, all that is now lost to me.

Plus the meta was switched from big armies to small armies of super units. Leaving old players holding a force of super pricey models that are no longer competitive.

Basically I play sigmar solely because of sunken cost and to do some sort of social gaming interaction. Can some games be fun? Yea. But generally winning feels hollow and defeats seem inevitable.

>>50548219
>That's your opinion, not a fact.
The fact. It's not Sigmar or one of other gods, so yeah it were unimportant for setting characters.
>Proof?
Did you miss the word of "CAN"?

>>50548304
>The fact

Nope. Opinion. Stormcast characters are more important to the story since half the stories is about them and not the gods.

>Did you miss the word of "CAN"?

I missed the proof.

>>50548394
>Stormcast characters are more important to the story
Which is unimportant for setting since there is no setting, only endless space with good and bad guys HQ.

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I have no idea how the game plays or cared to read into the plot, I hate AoS purely on an aesthetic level.

The whole setting looks like a bad power metal album.

>>50548131
Soo...they are going to invade but still haven't done it

>>50548459
But important to the story. The setting is still being built around the story. The three cities the Stormcast and Order races saved in global event "Seasons of War"? They are going to be a part of a new novel series.

Players had input in the story and changed things. You couldn't do that in WHFB and you can't do it in 40K, KoW, or warmachine.

>>50542515
>I like Total War
in this day and age
post tw empire
come the fuck on man

>>50548488
>The whole setting looks like a bad power metal album.
yeah. I mean it could be fun, if it didn't take itself so damn serious.

>>50548512
They made it inside Azyr. The armies of the Chaos Gods are already invading. It's still not a united host yet.

Basically, it's a count down of who achieves their objectives faster. If Order gets the all the Allgates or most of them, then Order will invade Varanspire. If Chaos secures the Allgates, then Archaon can march to Azyr without fearing that he will be flanked in other realms.

>>50548606
man that would be fucking awesome if it was less power and more metal along with a tongue and cheek sort of style.

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>>50548232
>solely because of sunken cost

>>50548613
Soo they are going to do X but still haven't done X

>>50548825
Love you man.
I'm in the process of painting all may standards like confederate flags because, "warhammer fantasy will rise again"

>>50545991
>>Miniature wargames are not that expensive as far as hobbies go.
the hell they ain't.
it's not model train level bad but 60 northern pesos for 5 liberators ain't what i call inexpensive.
same with other battleline.
i shifted over to FoW and for the same amount from PSC i could spend 20 cad more and get a complete army. in the same price range I could buy 15 tanks.
AoS/gw is expensive.
not unreasonably expensive but it's reached the fw 5 troops for 50 dollar threshold that i call bullshit arround.
>>To a company, profit is all, and new players spend so much more than the veterans, thus new players = bread and butter
god i', not good at economics but they've been at a bit of a loss for a bit yeah, I'm starting to wonder if their price point doesn't quite reach the proper equilibrium.

>>50546355
this

fantasyfags want you to believe that combat resolution or flanking mattered when in reality every game was determined by large monsters, special characters, and overpowered spells

>>50547281
people play 1000, 1500, and 2500+ regularly

shitposter pls go

>>50546956
>archaon is the abaddon of fantasy
>not the other way around

Holy delusion batman

>>50547455
When they die their spirits are sent back to Azyr to be reforged into a new body.

Every time they get reforged they lose a part of their humanity. Memories and emotions fade with each reforging, until eventually they just turn into animated suits of armor.

So yes, way more interesting than SPESS MEENS FITE EVIL, HERESY HERESY HERESY XD!!!

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Age of Shitmar is out of control in such a bad way that it is hard to believe it isn't Pokemon with miniatures or something. We are talking about some real dead end fantasy here. It is a level of writing that very well could set fantasy back 20 years. This kind of vacuum can happen in pop culture and we saw it very easily after Jim Henson died in the 90's

What is so startling about GW is that they have managed to do so poorly with such an important piece of pop culture. They should have been on a trajectory to rival Star Trek or the Aliens franchise. But they stopped making games and started making toys. When that happened, things stopped coming alive on the tabletop. You might as well have used colored beads to represent your troops.

Even FB competition with LOTR could have been remedied by simply keeping the scale the same for the miniatures. The compatibility would have boosted both franchises.

But most of all, people are done with GW prices and GW business practices. They are a dieing shelf in every game store.

Even genestealer cults are 10 years too late. And after all the wait you still can't build a 40K army from a Necromunda gang.

What every single GW product needs right now is radical roleplaying campaign systems. And that is the last thing they are providing. Until that happens all the good stories about Games Workshop products are just going to be memories.

>>50547589
No they arent you retarded fuck

The stormcast are a beacon of hope for the mortal races to rally around. They arent unstoppable killing machines, they are an elite spearhead unit meant to rekindle hope and valor.

>>50541806

No, it's a fun game.

Pushing around square blocks of dudes was, and still is, retarded.

>>50548394
Stormcast are being featured right now because that's where we are in the current storyline. They are the big flashy new models that launched a brand new IP so it makes sense to focus on them for a while.

GW is going to be putting out dwarves, elves, etc. in 2017

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>>50549336

>most of all, people are done with GW prices and GW business practices

>Basically doubled expected profits

Go back to your cave

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>>50549375
But there was always room for a great Skirmish system in that setting as well.

>>50549336
>But most of all, people are done with GW prices and GW business practices. They are a dieing shelf in every game store.
Is that why GW is reporting record sales and profits?

It's the exact opposite - GW is entering a renaissance of new products and community involvement. They are bringing back a ton of people while grabbing an entirely new generation at the same time.

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>>50549416
That's not what the business journalists that write about GW say. But I can see the pound crash giving them a temporary boost. This is nothing for them to be patting themselves on the back for.

>>50549434
>Is that why GW is reporting record sales and profits?
they forced every 3rd party supplier to close their webstores.
all product bought on line is funneled to them because of it and people are lazy.
it's not aos is directly and solely responsible for that increase, rather bully boy business practices.
good to reminder you that there was a large dip during aos release during the early days up to a year

>>50549235
You never really played fantasy did you?

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>>50549425
>room for
There WAS a great skirmish system in that setting.

In the main rulebook. Complete with a bunch of little scenarios and expansions down the line.

Which 7th edition dropped because 7th edition fucking sucked.

It was basically casual mordheim that any army could join in on.

>>50549524
What the fuck are you talking about

3rd party suppliers still bought their stock from GW, they didnt somehow magically make their own GW products

Literally making no sense

WHFB was never good, there just wasn't any decent competition.
AoS is awful, and the generals handbook is a bandaid at best to a halfassed system.
Play other games.

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>>50549434
Again, I don't really see the Pound crash being a Renaissance. But ya, there are a lot of assholes like me that have been waiting for 20 years for Genestealer cultists and are indeed buying their first non-secondhand GW product since 2000. That Deathwatch box with all the cultists did get people excited. So if whe want a winning combination they will start releasing shit they denied us for 15 years. Adeptus Arbites and Eldar Exodites would probably rake in a huge amount of nostalgia cash. Now it they only had a decent fucking game to play.

I use my Neophyte Hybrids to play Necromunda.

>>50549235
>overpowered monsters

Most of them were underpowered, with a few notable exceptions, and as a result, didn't see much play outside of friendly beer and pretzel matches.

>overpowered special characters

Only Vampire Counts, Ogre Kingdoms, and Chaos had powerful special characters, and that was because that was part of each of their army's unique playstyles.

>overpowered spells

Yep. Most people agree that Ward made way too many "save or die" spells, but that's mostly because the entire 8th edition was written to sell as many infantry kits as possible, which is what reallu ended up killing the game

Games-Workshop's greed and refusal to fix their product.

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>>50549556
5th through 7th was decent you fucking edgelord. Don't make me start talking about 8th or some bullshit.

>>50549666
Pound crash would account for maybe 10% difference at most

DOUBLING their expected profit is because of increased sales

>>50549701
7th was shit

shiiiiiit

8th was even worse, but that doesn't make 7th any less turbo shit

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>>50549609
>3rd party suppliers still bought their stock from GW,
now they can't sell it online or even keep a catalogue of products online.
which means more people, who like me are lazy and/or live an unreasonable distance for their local stores are forced to go to gw for our needs.
effectively, more sales go to gw directly without the whole sale prices that gw gives 3rd party.

>>50549719
10% + the horus heresy plastics.
that shit apparently oversold AoS within weeks.
and i can believe it.

>>50549753
They can still sell it online, they just cant do it through a webstore

I order from online retailers all the time

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>>50549858
>they just cant do it through a webstore
then less people buy it.
you have to know you can, where to do i and if they have the stock to do so.
ain't everybody know that.
even if 10% of people start buying gw over local stores they are marking more money in theory.
and i doubt it's that low

If you are thinking about getting into AOS check out this podcast from frontlinegaming where they talk about the differences between 40k and AOS from a competitive tournament players perspective.

https://www.frontlinegaming.org/2016/12/01/the-ninth-realm-21-interview-with-a-40k-convert/

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All this bullshit complaining about raked troops and square bases isn't important.
In 5th edition you could hold a line and turn a flank. It was linear warfare because that is how medieval troops operated. The units were self contained simulations of mob like formations. They either held their ground or broke and scattered. In 5th edition light cavalry became really powerful. And on the scale of the table you played on it should have been very important. Unit sizes got about 1/3 bigger in 5th edition but characters mellowed out and the whole system reached a nice balance.

Where do you go from there?

I say you find a way to incorporate your character models into a roleplaying adventure game. Develop castle building systems and weapons markets. Get more people involved by making the entry price point smaller and letting them scale up into an army. I started with Warhammer Quest. Sell a diverse array of miniatures individually or in pairs that can be used for a variety of games and systems. Make free catalogues that display hundreds of different miniatures. It will be like pokemon, "got to catch them all." Most of all allow people to build mixed and non-conventional armies that ally different troops into an individual's army narrative. Extra points for good combos like Wood Elves and Bretonnians, Empire and Dwarves, Chaos and Dark Elves. Marienburg and High Elves.

>>50549701
7'th edition had shittier army books.

>>50542720
DAZEL

>>50549719
Their expected profits were over 10%?????
come on.

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>>50550227
Yes I will concede this point.

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>>50550278
>year they release plastic HH
>extreme profit
>it...it's totally smegmar guise.

>>50550197
You mean 6th. 6th was when Warhammer crawled out of the colour-riot hellscape into being decently able to take balanced armies in a competitive environment and did all the things you list.

5th was full on hero-hammer; loading up characters with magic items to fill half the cost of an army, trying to deal with the inevitable heart of woe/black gem of gnar suicide bomber cheap characters and so on.

If I remember right, 6th actually did have a copy of Mordheim's skirmish system included in the rulebook that unfortunately no-one used, partly because it was never really made to be a thing outside of the excellent General's Compendium.

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>>50550437
>tfw I bought the General's Compendium on a whim back in the day

>>50550427
>plastic 30k marines
>plastic thousand sons
>plastic genecults
>plastic custodes
>plastic sisters of silence
>plastic blood bowl
funny how on the other hand in the semester they concentrated on sigmar the company stood afloat only thanks to royalties AND the first plastic HH box


next they will blame the haters and the concepts retained from fantasy for dragging down the new setting.

>>50548232
This

>>50550513
It really was great. A 'we fucking love doing mad shit with this game, you should too' love letter from the assorted developers.

>>50542060
Okay wheres my tomb kings or bretonians then?

>>50550437
>If I remember right, 6th actually did have a copy of Mordheim's skirmish system included in the rulebook that unfortunately no-one used, partly because it was never really made to be a thing outside of the excellent General's Compendium.
the siege and (appropriately named) warhammer skirmish books both featured the skirmish rules

As did the old dark shadows campaign (it had a little scenario where your band ambushed some enemy artillery in the mists), but I don't think anyone here remembers that.

>>50550576
You mean deathrattles legions and flesh eater courts?

>>50550575
I never got to use it though. My Warhammer pals back in the day just didn't want to play campaigns.

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>>50550614
I do believe that the naming convention is the worst aspect of the Age of Sigmar fluff. Every time one of the names pops up in any sentence it immediately strikes discord into any flow it might have had.

>>50550576
Third party minis.

>>50541806
I resent GW for killing Fantasy rather than fixing their own repeated fuck-ups. However, to fix it would require them to sacrifice too many of their sacred cows, such as the delusion that games don't matter and price gouging.

I don't hate Age of Sigmar, though. It is too bland to hate. If I'd invested in it, then maybe I'd resent it for not being better.

>>50549375
Yeah. Individually moving dudes towards the center of the board is where the real fun is.

>>50550705
a lot of them are 10 types of stupid and clearly trying to avoid using standard fantasy terms becaue Kirby was the world biggest idiot in regards to understanding copyright.

A few, and those are newer ones, actually sound like names.
Flesheater Court actually sounds like a faction.
Slyvaneth is a weird sounding name, but then they are kinda a weird faction.
I still flat refuse to say things like Orruk, or Aelf, or stuff like that, but the new armies all say, and I swap back and forth on lizardmen/seraphon.

>>50551020
the dogpile in the center of the board issue hasn't been a thing for a while.
and everything being 3+/4+ also isn't a thing. They are the most common rolls, but most games will involve 2+s and 6+s.

>>50550705
The Fyreslayer Doomseeker travels to the Darkbad Groundcave to do battlecombat with the Ur-mighty Nounnoun Nounverb of Nounounoun.

>>50551080
I really think that the Undead faction got the worst rebranding treatment. They went from gothic horror sounding names to Nickelodeon sounding names.

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>>50550437
Ya brother, I am in general talking about the era from 5th - 7th it was a pretty solid stage. The Hero Hammer era you are talking about was 3rd and 4th.

>>50551139
So much worse the Gruckcrum Galhumburg of Krumdan, travelling to Slevanus to battle [random collection of vaguly gutural sound] in revenge for him destroying [8 letter word with no vowels].

GW replaced their habit or stringing together made up words, with stringing together compound words. And got really bad at using the same words in those compound too close together.

It's a bad habit, but it didn't replace a good one.

>>50551157
Deathrattle is awful, but Flesheater Court is on the same level as Tomb Kings or Vampire Counts IMHO.

I'm optimistic for the future in them replacing more of the stupid with better. And wonder of fucking wonders they started the process of making the new edition by asking the customers for imput.

>>50551248
I'll take punny referencial names over stuff that sounds like it was made up by a 12 year old.

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My biggest problem with Age of Sigmar was the fluff or should I say the lack of it.
I could imagine the world of Warhammer fantasy, how it looked and could imagine how it would be to live in that world.
Age of Sigmar is the complete opposite with the connected realms filled with infinite land?

>>50551289
I'm okay with Flesheater court, but I hate a lot of the terms in the Death faction like Soulblight.

>>50549477

>THIS IS SHIT! I KNOW THIS BECAUSE IT IS MY OPINION!
>*Gets proven wrong*
>STOP BRINGING LOGIC TO MY /TG/ DAMN YOU!

Haha, classic "I can not be wrong" defense you got there anon.

>>50551305
I met a guy at the local FLGS that said that having geography made WHFB a worse and more limited setting.

I personally like having that extra context.

>>50548949

Dude, a vintage Barbie doll costs around $100-$800, depending on the condition.
There... Even Barbie proved you wrong.

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You know Games Workshop isn't something totally original. It is a combination multiple fantasy and Sci-fi archetypes. There isn't any reason why someone can't make something exactly like it.

All the other Fantasy and Sci-fi games try to be different. But they should really try to be as similar and compatible as they can be to GW. That would really destroy GW and get tabletop moving in the right direction again.

It wouldn't have to be anything epic either. You could start with Fantasy/Sci-fi games and miniatures built on the very small skirmish games that could augment current GW miniature lines or fill holes in GW's existing lines.

Hell you could even stay ahead of the game by releasing new products that are similar to whatever Holywood was coming out with at the moment. WHY THE FUCK GW DIDN'T RELEASE ELDAR EXODITES WHEN AVATAR CAME OUT I WILL NEVER KNOW? It would have been eazy money in the bank boys.

>>50551020

haha, did you perhaps play during the first week and then went living under a rock?
To make it clearer, people like you, are the people who joins a game of AoS, and cant even get the 4 pages right.

Start playing some scenarios, and try adding terrain to the board, that also helps.

>>50551339
>>50551339
it makes it a lot harder to write in.
I'm not saying better or worse for the reader, personally I prefer as the reader to have more detail, but if you want to have a bunch of people creating content, then a completely drawn out, filled in and for the most part unchangeable world is utterly terrible.

The only place where they could have battle actually destroy major strongholds or cities was Lustria, because it was mostly unexplored.

Now they have the downside of having these massive victories/defeats not seem like they matter unless they spend a while building up stakes (not GW's strong point), but at least they can happen.

>>50551458
It would still be nice to have better maps to serve as examples of detailed realms instead of the amusementpark maps they have been churning out.

>>50550621

A usual problem. You hit the field, the guy winning the roll of got a major head start, and in the end some WAAC player just won the game, standing straight as he "followed the rules".
These are also the players that couldn't cope with the idea of a "no point system" in AoS, because now only your own moral fiber was there to save you. You could no longer sit back and say "well, I might have tabled you on T2, but at least I followed the rules!" with a smirk on your face. And they also couldn't understand the concept that AoS was now driven by the idea of deep scenario play. Because, really now, why play a game where my "ultimate list of doom" can get beaten by mere points?

>>50551415
>WHY THE FUCK GW DIDN'T RELEASE ELDAR EXODITES WHEN AVATAR CAME OUT
because avatar was shit

i still hate it

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>>50551161
3rd was hardly herohammer, the tools for beefing up heroes were pretty weak excepting spellcasting stuff, but even that was mostly there to be used as a GM tool like the summon army spell, and the best magic items were banners for units.

5th was just 4th carried on with a few tweaks and even more shit to add to characters, and special characters out the wazoo, especially for Chaos who got an entire supplement just for them.

>>50543955
It's always hilarious to me when internet communities pretend they aren't an irrelevant minority. Remember when people claimed AoS was hemorrhaging money and would kill GW within the year?

And really, at this point I could invent a name for a totally made up RPG system, make a thread or two a day complaining about it, and by the end of the week people would be giving multi-paragraph explanations for why it's the worst thing ever to happen to tabletop

>>50551551
I know it was shit but so is everything GW does.

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>>50551401
>There... Even Barbie proved you wrong.
>a vintage Barbie
nigger were you born this stupid?
or is contradicting yourself in your own posts just your special talent?
Are aosfags just special retards or something

>>50550621
>>50551532

Same here.

Fucking tournament-style-armies-only attitudes.

Not that AoS brought the tools to actually develop decent scenario-play, or teach how to design scenarios since making good ones is not exactly easy; a decent points system is a really helpful thing to have for designing scenarios without being intimately familiar with every possible part of the system. There's a happy middle-ground to be found somewhere.

>>50551529
there is a LOT they could do better, but some of it they already are.
I'm hoping they'll realize that advantage they had in 40k was they'd have very detailed maps of the particulars, but then have a bunch of space blank in between so there was room to work in.

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>>50551599
Ahhh, I think you need to check your numbers for that one man. 3rd was a hard hero hammer game, so was 4th.
Hope you're not shooting to bait me?

5th was where the real balanced game emerged and the best codexes came out. That pretty much continued with minor tweaks in 6th and 7th.

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Empire, High Elves, Orcs, Dwarves, Skaven. For 5th were some of the best codexes ever produced. The guy who wrote a chunk of them later left GW.

>>50551708
Yeah you're completely off, 6th edition was the Empire & Orcs starter set, Ravening Hordes booklet for army lists given they completely replaced everything from 5th, not a revision.

3rd was no army box, no individual army books, no cards. 4th was introduction of cards and individual army books, plus had a starter boxed set with goblins and high elves. The spears on the goblins were really fucking sharp for some reason. 5th edition continued 4th's massive amount of cards (including card-based magic phase) system, did a bit of revision to 4ths rules, added a lot more army books, start set was Bretonnians and Lizardmen, who replaced the Slann of 3rd edition.

>>50551759
ok at this point you've got to be trolling.

>>50551002
I wish it had been made as a third game set in the warp/realm of chaos, intentionally rules light to be cross setting compatible and still sport some exclusives to its setting, I'm currently building from a starter box to give it a chance on its own merits and see how it plays, if I dislike it I can convert them into a 40k force, but either weay they didn't need to kill fantasy to make it happen

>>50551310
Soul blight sounds like some manner of Nurgle magic caster, not a vampire

>>50546881
Nothing has changed in 40k for 20 years. The timeline just gets slower and progressively closer to the final second of the year 999.M41. The Golden Throne will never fail, for example.

>>50552005
It did go past that arbitrary point for a bit but that got retconned because of reasons, disappointingly.

>>50551937
Yeah, I think it's very unfitting, but apparently the kids like it.

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>>50541806

Yes.

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>>50544279
>>50544322
>mfw these fags don't mention purest Neferata

>>50541806
Like the miniatures, still hate the game, secretly wish old hammer becomes advance AoS with the rules and core game balanced for the old players who wish to use the new miniatures but doesn't like the new rules

>>50549319
>Every time they get reforged they lose a part of their humanity. Memories and emotions fade with each reforging, until eventually they just turn into animated suits of armor.
False, Thorpe said they didn't lose humanity.
>So yes, way more interesting
Where?

>>50546956
>Archaon as the everchosen was a huge plot mistake. WHFB didn't need its own version of Abaddon.
Bitch wath the hell are you talking about? Fucking Archaon would had raped Abaddon in the ass even before AoS, Archaon was the first great Lord of chaos both hammers ever saw before failbaddon was even a thought.

>>50549434
>Is that why GW is reporting record sales and profits?
Source?
>GW is entering a renaissance of new products and community involvement.
The miniatures still ugly and overpriced and the rules are still bad, it's not rensissance it's casualisation.

>>50552316
Neferata is pretty shitty.

AoS doesn't scratch the same itch that WHFB did, so I'm uninterested in it.

>>50552605
>Archaon was the first great Lord of plot armor both hammers ever saw
Fix

>>50552605
Archaon had nothing on Abaddon's killcount prior to AoS. He was pretty fucking smalltimes in comparison.

Abaddon had a ship called the Planetkiller which he used a lot and he caused a star to go supernova using a Blackstone Fortress. All the people Archaon killed on Malus doesn't even come close to those incidents that Abaddon caused during the Gothic Wars.

>>50552666
Fair enough, but I always thought Archaon was cooler than the weird tortoise terminator that is Abaddon.

>>50541806
Yes. If anyone likes AoS they're either an idiot or a paid shill.

>>50548005
There is no setting.

Neither victory nor defeat mean anything in AoS because the realms are loosely defined, vaguely infinite album covers rather than actual settings. I don't care of a billion unnamed, uncharacterized tribes of humans are enslaved by Archaeon on the fire plane of infinite fire, because none of them are remotely interesting.

GW is 'pulling off' a changing setting by not actually having a setting. They can make up whatever they want whenever they want in the infinite undefined realms, so than can freely wreck transient, meaningless shit because none of it matters. This is a far cry from the kind of engaging setting changes in something like Warmahordes, where nations with rich back stories rose and fell in one of the first fluff changes and entire factions were introduced as a consequence of the plot moving along.

>>50552718
Archabutt was actually blessed by gods a bijjilion times while Abbadon is just tickled occasionally

Abbs power is in the massive amount of people who follows him for reasons
Archabutt is basically Grimgor but worst

>>50552718
It's Canon that old Archaon could have killed the primarchs, and he walked trough the chaos realms without their patrons favours, the gods forced Belakor to kneel and crown him the everchosen of chaos and all the other warlords, champions, daemons and warriors did the same.

Abaddon had to be Deus exed by khorne to prevent kharn from killing him.

>>50552759
I liked him before End Times and AoS turned him into a cartoonish plot device.

His current model is a fucking embarrassment to wargaming.

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>>50552718
dude
the population of WHFB is by nature much smaller than 40k
what with the population of an individual planet being lower then that.
what is is however is a man who managed to without special genetic modifications kill his way through the world and strangle greater daemons and the like.

Archon is > abbadon. (in theory anyway)
because he didn't have an leg up.
He didn't have any army, or father figure teaching him the ropes.
he wasn't given power amour he had to take it,
Everything he got he made himself.

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>>50552759
No shit? Abaddon's model is like from 2'nd edition of 40k, sometime from the mid 90's and it was considered a pretty cool model back in that day. Archaon's model from the 90's was also pretty awkward looking compared to the one he got in the early 2000's.

>>50544811
>WHFB
>generic fantasy
Go fuck yourself. WHFB was ASoIF before Martin even thought about cumming on ice.

Even with the rise of "more realistic" and gritty fantasy WHFB stood out for having non-conventional versions of fantasy races and institutions; both visually and in lore. Yet it still managed to be recognizable enough to be approachable to people who were familiar with the generic depictions.

AOS is just WoW in space, aesthetic and all.

>>50552639
She's definitely waifuable though.
Way more than the other Mortarchs at least.
Just ask that one Slaaneshi champion.

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>>50552836
>animu powered dragon
he'd do better with Kamina shades

>>50552846
>He didn't have any army
>leading largest chsos army
Chaos-baby fuck off.
>Everything he got he made himself.
He didn't, writers just gives him plot-device "God mode GW".

>>50545142
>It's what people like these days.
It's what people think they like, because one example became massively popular, and all the other companies/competitors became imitators while not marketing their more unique stuff.

It's a positive feedback loop that actually ignores any aesthetic preferences customers might have.

>>50552906
It's actually supposed to be a horse.

>>50552886
>She's definitely waifuable though.
Kys waifufag, her model, her fluff is ugly.

>>50552848
Man, seeing this is saddening.

The current model is just such an overcomplicated, shallow concept in comparison to this. Old Archaon was iconic; he looked like he fucking horseman of death. He himself is distinctive and his pose tells you that he's marshaling hell behind him.

New Archaon gets lost in his own steed.

>>50552825
Yeah, most of the primarchs wasn't exactly unkillable. They could be shot to death with bolters. They just had plotarmour. Of course a powerful fantasy Chaos lord would stand a chance against a primarch.

>>50552913
>>He didn't have any army
when he started no, he didn't.
he marched up to the chaos wastes alone, and MADE his own army.

>>Chaos-baby fuck off.
nigger what
I play dorfs, i just admire grit.
also
>baby
the fuck are you from tumblr or shit.

>>He didn't, writers just gives him plot-device "God mode GW".
which isn't really and different from abby.
he's no ungrim
he's no grimgor
he's no karl frankz
he's not even crom the conquer.
but he's the better chaos plot device then abby.

>>50552939
I wasn't the one who started the whole waifu discussion. Calm the fuck down.

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>>50552923
>It's actually supposed to be a horse.
oh
oh god
why

>>50553006

>but he's the better chaos plot device then abby.
No he didn't, at least Abby doesn't have ability to force his enemies to do nothing against Black Legion

>>50553027
It ate three greater daemons and it's now an otherkin.

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>>50553045
>doesn't have ability to force his enemies to do nothing against Black Legion
what?

>>50552846
Didn't GW just decide that Archaon is the son of a daemon prince being railroaded through the world by his daddy that just resets time whenever Archaon dies?

Doesn't sounds that badass at all, desu.

>>50553092
>what is ET

>>50553102
Bel'akor. You know, the biggest loser in all of WHFB, who is cursed by Tzeentch himself to be a loser? Yeah, that guy has time warping powers to ensure that Chaos wins. Shitty ET and AoS writing aside he'll always be Bel'acuck to me.

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>>50553102
Didn't GW just decide that Archaon is the son of a daemon prince being railroaded through the world by his daddy that just resets time whenever Archaon dies?
if they did that's stupid.
From what i remember he was a normal fucking dude.... that was a rape babby.
>>50553136
that sounds horrible

>>50553117
well what is it?
i skipped out of the end times.

>>50553136
I never liked his big reveal back in 6'th edition. Creating a Warhammer Lucifer always seemed like the most pointless thing ever. They first established that he was a bitch and when he showed up at the Storm of Chaos his entire army gets dispelled by elves and he looked like an even bigger bitch after that.

>>50553189
I think the point was that siding with Chaos isn't a good choice. You may achieve immortality, power, all your wildest dreams but you're still a slave. A king now but still a slave, a thrall, a worthless speck in the eye of the gods. It was his hubris that proved that Chaos is bad, m'kay.

>>50553162
That was the final version of Archaon that GW went with in WHFB and what was carried over to AoS. They literally made him the sulking Warhammer Antichrist.

>>50541806
Yes. Warhammer is not Warhammer anymore and the Warhammer world does not exist anymore. I don't even know or understand the new fluff bullshit about portals and inter dimensional battlegrounds and what other crap it is.

Games-workshop got gel us and copy catted Warcraft dimensional fuckery.

>>50553215
The problem with Be'lakor was that he was hyped up as a mysterious BBEG for several years and then it turned out that he was just a daemon prince with daddy issues.

>>50551248
>Murderfang with his Murderfists and Murderclaws
>Wolf Lord in a Wolf Cloak armed with a Wolf Axe, riding a Fenrisian Wolf

GW are pretty shit when they're not trying to be snowflakey, too.

>>50553249
Different strokes, I suppose. I like the futile nature of fighting Chaos when you're already enthralled by it. No matter how smart he was he couldn't trick the gods. Even in his moment of triumph he was still a loser.

>>50553221
That was the final version of Archaon that GW went with in WHFB and what was carried over to AoS. They literally made him the sulking Warhammer Antichrist.
That fucking sucks.
i preferred it what he was a normal fucking dude
chaos has always been a loose meritocracy at least in fantasy.
and with tzeench because destiny is fucked
not just some super powered fucking preordained bastard

>>50541806

A lot of the models look like shit. The names are terrible. I honestly don't even care what the new rules are, it already lost me.

>>50553270

They ride Thunderwolves. Fenrisian Wolves are the smaller non-ridden ones.

>>50542515

I don't. After years I've come to realize it's fundamentally flawed. Combining the strategic and tactical sides into one game makes for disjointed priorities. At the strategic level it's in my interest to fight only battles that are in my favour, but these are the most boring to play out in the tactical game (I could auto-resolve, but fuck that coin-toss bullshit). Sometimes the player gets hard battles forced upon them but it's rare. All the sieges are dull too. This is before you even get into dumb AI, bugs, lazy Hollywood history and often poor balance.

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>>50553221
i fucking read through his new storyline
jesus fuck.
poor archoan.

>>50553323

Thanks autismo. So that's yet another wolf in the mix (and a retardedly named one too).

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>>50553002
Found carnac, what do I win?

>>50553047
it actually ate 4, one was a verminlord, thats where it got the forked tail, because the Great Horned Rat doesn't deserve a head

>>50553363

They also have cyborg Fenrisian Wolves. I think they're called Cyberwolves.

>>50553397
this whole horse eating four greater daemons is the dumbest thing i've heard today
>>50553427
cyberwolves.
wolfwolveswolf
second stupidest thing,
1. there are no wolves on fenris
2. gw naming practices a shit
SHIT

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>>50553397
>>50553427

>>50552616
>it's not rensissance it's casualisation
Too bad GW is a company first and a game maker second. They did what actually makes money, not what retarded neckbeards who, by admission of >>50549666, hadn't bought a single product in 20 years wanted them to do.

If you wanted fantasy to continue, maybe you should have actually bought shit for it instead of purposely keeping money away from the people making the damn game and then bitching about the consequences.

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I don't exactly hate Age of Sigmar, but man I just don't see the charm of it. Any design that wasn't directly taken from WHFB simply doesn't make me want to learn more in any way, they leave me indifferent.

>>50553601

Case in point.

>>50542060
>Still no Halflings

More like Age of SHITmar

>>50553767
Maybe the game should have been adequately supported. Then players wouldn't have left the stores and taken GWs best marketing with them

>>50553767
>>Hey bruv, how do we make our miniature company more successful?
>>I dunno mate, how about we increase prices and put less minis in each box?
>>Wonderful!
X amount of time later...
>>Why is nobody buying our products?
>>It can't be our fault, it's clearly the consumers that won't buy it for petty reasons.
>>Right you are, let's just axe one of our venerable games and not do any research as to why this happened, or get any customer feedback at all!

Fantasy didn't fail. GW rigged the game from the start.

>>50553822
Pretty much a whole lot of this

>>50553808
>grognards who complain constantly and hate any sort of change
>Best marketing
>People who died things as "casual" or "for kids" if complied
>Going to bring in new players

>>50553822
>company becomes successful and you want to make more money
>raise prices to make more money like any business would
>get called retarded by people who aren't even buying models anymore because "I already have all the stuff I want"
>release new things to get sales up
>"This stuff is all so retarded, fuck GW"
>Kill unsuccessful game that isn't making you money anymore and replace it with something easier for new players to start up
>Make record sales
>"FUCKING GW KILLED IT AND NOW THEY'RE GONNA GO BANKRUPT! THEY'RE SUCH A RETARDED COMPANY"

>>50553822

Except they did the same thing with 40k and it didn't fail. Dire Avengers, cut from 10 to 5 and price of box raised, resulting in a price increase of over 100%.

>>50553876
GWs best marketing was having people play in their stores. People go into a Store and see people playing and want to play themselves. When armies aren't updated, or people have to double the size of their armies to stay relevant and competitive they say fuck it. Most people financially stable enough to play this game are financially stable enough to put some terrain on a table in their house and play with friends. People who joined WHFB generally are in for life, and don't appreciate being milked and cheated every single time a new unbalanced edition is released. The rest of your post is unintelligible autistic drivel

>>50553931
You don't get it, nobody could get into the hobby because of how horrendously expensive they made it. You can't make money off a product if nobody can buy it.

>>record sales
lel

>>50553985
Barring horde armies, you need far fewer models to play 40k than you do Fantasy. There's Apocalypse, sure, but most games don't have the same model count. In some armies cases not nearly the same amount.

>>50553931
AOS was doing shit until they slapped a band aid on it and made it more like FB

>>50554007
>>>record sales
>lel

They made twice as much profit as they expected/last year.

>>50553931
>>raise prices to make more money like any business would
i don't know companies that raise their prices like jewdubs.
they have an almost predatory businessnes model.

>>50554032
last year they were having record lows.
that is not record highs

>>50554032
Firstly [citation needed]
Secondly they have switched to mostly all plastic and HH was released
Thirdly wargamers will spend more in their first year of playing then the next ten combined, so the cycle is already doomed to repeat itself leaving more and more people out of the game

>>50554007
No, nobody could get into the hobby because the fucking meta became 3k point lists and players were so insistent on staying at high point counts that new players were terrified to start because they couldn't get a game until they bought and built $500 in models.

If players would have been okay with running smaller lists instead of their precious massive-horde-of-shit-they-spent-years-collecting-and-nothing-less-because-then-my-combos-and-synergy-won't-work then new players might have gotten into it and made it a viable game again.

Well, as someone who just started it a few months ago, it seems kinda fun and a little over the top. But clearly I don't have the same emotional investment that a lot of the posters here do, I just picked it up because I liked the models.

>>50554032
See >>50550427

>>50554006
And the people who are stable and reasonable recognized the mistakes in AoS release (there were many) but don't keep repeating the same bitching and refusing to look at what changed since that release.

I don't trust the people who do that to have possible been appealing to new players

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>>50554032
I wonder what could've happened in 2016

>>50554121
That's because you aren't autismo.

>>50554163

In April 2005 and February 2014, GW prices JUMPED OFF A LITERAL CLIFF. I want to know what happened around this time, especially 2005. They went from record high stock to a downward spiral, clawed their way up over the course of 8 years, then tanked again.

>>50554219
Aren't those the CEO changes?

>>50554161
If you saw my post earlier all of my problems with sigmar are still prevalent post GHB. Also you really need to work on sentence structure

>>50552562
>False, Thorpe said they didn't lose humanity.

His interview doesn't talk about the effects of multiple reforging o the Stormcast. The lore shows that they each time they are reforged they become less and less. Like Thostos.

>>50554271
The one where you complained about 'casualization'.
Because that just sounds like 'liking things I don't like'
And typing phone, so editing is a bitch.

GHB is only part of it, though a big part. Costumer communication is better, things are less rushed, focus on scenarios, start collecting boxes. These are all improvements.

>>50554119
Since when? Not everyone ran through tournaments. My group of friends during highschool would play anywhere from 500 points to 5000. Hell, there was Skirmish back then as well as Warbands that was catered to small lists. Nobody 'forced' you to play high games and any group you joined would be more than happy to help out new players by starting out small. That's how I got into the game. I had a single unit of KoTR and a Paladin and that's all I needed for a while.

>>50554161
See >>50548232
I still play semi regularly but don't get the same enjoyment I used to

>>50552825
>Abaddon had to be Deus exed by khorne to prevent kharn from killing him.

Bitch please are you trolling? Motherfucker when the BT came, Abaddon had Kharn pinned down and bleeding out of consciousnesses as the sword was slowly coming down.

The whole fight Abaddon was holing back. It was clear that he would have killed Kharn ar any moment if he wished in the fight. Heck, he viewed Kharn as such a none threat that he was willing to fight the BT and Kharn at the same time if the BT wasn't willing to do wat Khorne promsed.

You are a piece of lying shit.

>>50554353
Casualization? I think you have me confused with another anon. And I'm on mobile too I'm just having trouble receiving your communication

>>50554392
Points are a guideline, and should always be treated as such. AoS makes that clearer with the points being in rough blocks.
As an competitive tournament game AoS is still bad. But so are all GW products, past and future. Use the scenarios, discuss lists to make good games.

It still has problems but it is much improved.

>>50553767
>Too bad GW is a company first and a game maker second.
Too bad the FFG still beating shit out of them.
>should have actually bought shit for it
And support shit models and rules of 8th editon? No thanks mr. Redshirt, go back to your forum.

>>50554483
I can agree. But I feel like the games are poor at a competitive level for different reasons.

In WHFB I saw points as a method of meritocracy that gave a basic idea of how a unit can be expected to perform in game.

In AOS I see points only as an amount of resources a faction would need to devote to field a unit.

WHFB was poor in a tournament setting because of such a wide variety of possible outcomes that came with such a detailed and applicable ruleset. I had games that I would wipe the table with the opposing army but one really unfortunate pivot could still lead to defeat, but to me that was still fun and I felt did a good job of representing the way a fantasy battle would ebb and flow and I enjoyed it immensely.

AOS is poor competitive game because it feels more like Rock Paper Scissors, some factions just do too well against others and even an experienced player can lose before setup begins just because of what army he has and what he is facing.

I think sigmar is best played as an ongoing, escalating, story driven map campaign. But I still think fantasy did that better

>>50554353
>These are all improvements.
It's not GHB is still trash, Start Collecting isn't even 500 points armies and totally usless in the game.

>>50554723
I'll shit on AOS all day but start collecting doesn't mean buy this bundle and you're set in wargaming for life. They are better value that the normal price model, give you a decent amount of models but not so much that you are working for months just to get them table ready. GHB is a book that you pay for solely for a few select pages

>>50554483
>Use the scenarios, discuss lists to make bad games.
Fix

>>50541806
I play IG, have for years. I fucking love the Guard.
What AoS army is equivalent?
Is this game really easy to teach nongamers?

>>50554483
I'm sorry if I have to discuss my list with an opponent to have a good game I see that as the game developers not doing their job and I might as well make my own ruleset

>>50554826
>but start collecting doesn't mean buy this bundle and you're set in wargaming for life.
And how it's supposed to be good thing?
SC are just overpriced filler with few useful models.

>>50554826
The scenarios are all good. While the campaign and Quest for Glory sections aren't needed for all play they are good for more fun ways to play.
You don't need GHB to play with points. Battlescribe has all unit costs, compositions, and army building rules.

>>50554866
>What AoS army is equivalent?
Any mortal race

>>50554866
Probably free people, they can go the "lot of chaff" route or they can play differently. AOS can be learned in an evening. Most of the rules are not the core rules, but rules connected with individual units

>>50554894
Try it.
No, really do.
See if you can do it with less than a thousand man hours.

Then see how long it takes for a hundred people to break it.

>>50554921
I have played many of the scenarios and I can tell you for a fact they are not all good. Some of them make the game completely unbalanced depending on what factions are on the table

>>50554921
Also at my store you have to have the book to play in the matched games

>>50554952
If I'm making it for one game against another specific list why would I need to worry about it

>>50555053
No, but AoS already does this.
You're saying you should make a general rule set where you don't have to discuss lists or type of lists beyond point cost a general list building rules.

>>50544937
Wrong thread for this anon, but I'll bite because that's a sad story.
You should totally get in touch with your old wargame friends! Or at least make some new ones at a hobby store. Never let the dream die, anon.