ITT stale cliches.

>>50526064
I'm sort of surprised it's never the other way around. I mean, how many dudes would freak and run if they found out their wife to be was some bitchy old hag?
>Inb4 fertility
It would still be creepy as shit. Hell, the fact that she's desperate due to biological clock would make things worse, in my opinion. Especially if she uses magic to hide her true appearance and he saw through it.

>>50526096
>how many dudes would freak and run
But that's the thing, they don't need to run away to get away. Historically a man was perfectly justified spending his entire life on military campaigns. The woman was generally stuck in the house - unless she ran away.
With equal genders in RPGs this explanation wouldn't work anymore of course.

>>50526096
Well, actually, young men specifically seeking out old, rich widows and marrying them used to be a common thing and was a common trope in literature too - because when their wives die, they get all of their money and estate for themselves.
Never seen it in tabletop, however.

>>50526131
>>50526164
I can see it now.
>Why is your PC fighting in the war?
"Well, he was betrothed to this noble widow because his family needed the money. They told him she was a nice woman."
>Yes, and?
"And then he met her. So he picked up the draft as soon as he could, hoping to outlive her."

>>50526064
>stale cliches
The evil guy did it.

>>50526064
the party take turns fucking her face and arse before cleaning her up and returning her to the old guy for the reward.
>>50526164
see also: older white women in turkey or africa.

>>50526862
Hell, even Muhammad married an older rich widow as his first wife.

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>"The party meets a rebellious young princess, who ran away from the imperial throne, because they wanted her to marry a crossdressing shota trap kitsune prince."

How would your party resolve this?

>>50526064
I don't mind it as a PC origin story, since at least that gives the character room to grow into more than "runaway noble girl".

>>50526910
Kill the prince, claim diplomatic immunity, then get the fuck out of dodge when that fails with the wizard's teleport.

>>50526910
Rally to her service to remove shotafags, trapfags and the entire kitsune race from the empire.

>>50526910
>crossdressing
>trap
>kitsune

>dressing as a girl
>looking like a girl
>being able to transform into a girl
Isn't this a bit overkill?

>>50526910
Capture the princess, return her to her family/throne for a hefty reward, and then take the trap for my harem.

>>50526064
Everything is a cliche if you describe it in one sentence. I'm interested in "what happens next?"

For some reason I think of Disney's Aladdin. "Rebellious princess wants to be free" is the cliche, but then even though she manages to blend into the crowd she doesn't understand how money works and almost gets dismembered as a thief. And what happens next after that could be any number of things more interesting than "but then she reveals she's a princess and doesn't learn anything about the merits of extrajudicial dismemberment-based punishment seriously guys the story's about a magical genie don't focus on the poor people they're not relevant".

My players stopped an attempted murder and found out the target was a man who had rejected a young noblewoman. They didn't believe the woman to be able to attempt this, so they investigated and questioned her. As soon as they showed up, she burst into tears and apologized for rushing such a decision. They soon discovered that she had gotten drunk as fuck to drown her sorrows and then her evil uncle had told her about hiring a hitman to dispose of the one who had insulted her family's honor. After the hungover passed she remembered what she had done but wasn't able to call the hitman off.
Apparently she drinks a lot because she can't keep a fiancée for more than a couple months.

>Princess runs away from arranged marriage
>actually wants to marry the man
>but shes infertile and cant have kids
>doesnt want the man shes going to marry to be without children, so if she runs he can marry somebody else
>party tries to find a way to restore her fertility

could this work

>>50526064
Here's the twist.

She's twelve years old

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>>50526064

>>50527253

Want to make it more complicated? She runs away because she's pregnant with another man's child.

>>50527314
The child is a half-bugbear

>>50527253
This is more or less the reason for the existence of monsters in my setting, one of the goddess is infertile, so one god chose another goddess, the infertile goddess create monsters to kill the other couple creations.

>>50526910
Consider the prince's opinion. Act based upon that. Acquire favors to be used at a later date.

>>50526064
I ran into this once. We helped her reach the border while evading soldiers who were hunting for her, frequently being only one town away from them and their messengers who were out offering bounties.

Turned out she was an incredibly powerful bandit lord who'd escaped the day before her execution. We got stuck between her men and a platoon of soldiers after delivering her, and had to fight our way out. She got away again, and the last living officer present gave us an ultimatum - bring her back dead or alive, or else we'd face execution as well.

Took us three months to find her hideout and kill her. It was a pretty fun campaign, though kinda sad since she and our party had genuinely gotten along and liked eachother while travelling together - but it was either us or her, and we made our choice.

>>50527341
typical woman

>>50527341
>Infertile and can't create life
>So she _creates_ monsters to kill the other creations

Que?

>>50527360
Magic, she can't have biological children.

>>50527354
Shit man, if I was in love with someone and presumably they were reciprocating only for them to drop me like a sack of shit because I was shooting blanks and then hooked up with some random dude I'd be mighty pissed. And when you're a god and mighty pissed, bad things tend to result.

>>50527295
And pregnant

>>50527331

>Half-bugbear
>Not half-displacer beast

You gotta make it weird, anon.

>>50527363
Wait, so everyone else is actually descended from the gods?

Does that blood line or the generations of incest that must have followed actually give people any benefits?

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>>50527363
>life can be magically created out of nothing
>gods still fuck each other to have actual kids instead
>they even consider fertility relevant enough to chose couple

>>50527363

So... You literally made Lamashtu?

>>50527400
Only one royal bloodline is descendant, the rest of humans were made, like the other creatures, to mine magic crystals, the fertile goddess gave them their freedom.

>>50527404
They are gods to the humans, they are simply older humans + powerful magic.

>>50527426
>they are simply older humans + powerful magic
That changes nothing.
People want kids of their own because there's some psychological issues with taking care of something you made yourself. If you can actually create life with your own hands and power, it's basically the same in your mind. Fertility is a non-issue when you can actually, literally, create life.

>>50527410
Didn't know about her. Thanks gonna check it out.

>>50527426
Do these gods fuck the lesser humans from time to time?

>>50526064

I ran an inversion of this one time. An old woman paid the party to kidnap a young girl who was about to be married off by her family to an inappropriate nobleman. The reason being that the old woman was the matriarch of her house, at odds with her descendants because she refused to abdicate in any of their favor, due to their general incompetence (due to her poor parenting and neglect). The girl was her last chance of a decent heir, and her parents were keeping her to themselves in hopes of controlling the inheritance.

>>50527375
>>50527295
I mean if this is happening in an analogue of as medieval setting that isn't so weird.

>>50527451
How would you do it?
>>50527469
I haven't decided it yet, still creating the setting.

>>50527492
Look up the Anunnaki, that might give you some great inspiration.

>>50527509
They already are.

>>50526064
>Old man runs away from ravenous young noble lady because he fears for his health.

>>50527360
You can culture bacteria in a petri dish but that doesn't mean you can suddenly have kids with someone.

>>50527518
Ah, good, I like your style.

>>50527529
>Creating creatures nearly or as complex as humans
>The same as culturing bacteria

Nani?

>>50527573
Shhh anon he's obviously retardedly

>>50527492
I'd make it so there's some strong difference between life created with magic and life created by procreation.

As in, you just can't create anything but abominations when using magic. No matter how hard you try or how powerful you are, it will always come backwards and out of control.

Or you can create whatever with magic but it takes a part of your soul with it, and thus whoever that takes a go at it are bound to become insane and quickly become a twisted creature themselves.

>>50527386
>Half displacer beast
>Not half gelatinous cube

>>50527360
Maybe it's like how things work with Tolkien, where Melkor and Sauron could not truly create anything new, but could twist and corrupt existing creation. The original orcs were (maybe, possible; Tolkien kept changing their origin and never really got a definite version down) elves that were tortured and twisted by Melkor into beings of evil.

>>50527670
Thanks, I was thinking in those lines.
>>50527699
This is indeed a good idea too.

>>50527573
Any idiot can create another human with zero money, equipment, and resources.

Doing that with bacteria is significantly more difficult.

>>50527717
I suppose so, but creating synthetic life from scratch, that's something more worthy of a god methinks.

>>50526910
Burn down the entire port and have the fish man make uncomfortable sexual advances on the guards.

>>50526981
It's only a clerical error by the midwife, she's a kitsune princess.
The king decided to ignore the issue completely instead of forcing his daugther to live as a boy, but sadly the spies and diplomatic envoys are really bad at their jobs, and everyone outside the country is convinced that the princess is a whimsical girly looking boy.
She's gonna gut the next pretendant that tells her she really look like a girl.

>>50526064

> And old man is on the run from a political marriage of necessity to a young hottie arraigned by his noble house, because he is convinced that his bride will kill him and take control of his estate after the wedding. Maintaining peaceful relations with the noble house to avoid the crises is more important than he is, so he is pretty sure his own family would even let it slide as long as it was blatantly murder.

>>50526064
>I've seen this so often, and literally never any of my DMs put any clever twist or variation into it
The one time I ran it the princess wanted to marry another older man.

>>50526164
Okay, and women do this crap all the time too so?

>>50526096
Someone's never read the Wedding of Dame Ragnelle.
>errbody feasting in King Arthur's court
>old hag Dame Ragnelle in attendance
>challenges Arthur to answer a question for her within a year: "What do women want?"
>if he can't find the answer, he has to marry her
>psh this'll be easy
>wait this isn't easy
>Gawain help me
>Gawain agrees to pick up the slack, including marrying Dame Ragnelle
>and he marries her, the absolute madman
>it's their wedding night, Gawain's not into that GILF pussy
>suddenly Ragnelle turns into this beautiful woman
>"so here's the deal: I can either be ugly during the day and hot at night, or hot during the day and ugly at night. Which do you prefer?"
The Wife of Bath version has it as "beautiful and a cheating slut or ugly and the perfect loyal waifu". Or maybe it's the other way around?
>well that's a difficult choice, you do it
>"surprise that's the right answer! What women want is to make their own choices! You've broken the curse and now I get to be hot all the time!"
Though I prefer Green Knight.

>>50528323
>fish man make uncomfortable sexual advances on the guards.
Let out a hearty kek

>>50526064
We once met the pair having run off together to not get married. The old noble had promised his heart to another women ages ago on campaign, but his parents had forced him into a marriage when he returned so he was on this quixotic quest to find and make right with the one women he had ever loved. The girl, who in hindsight probably helped encouraged this, was along as his squire because she was a complete romantic and wanted to make sure nothing happened to the old man.

>>50530937
Damn, son. Gawain is an absolute MAD man.

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>>50530937
The absolute madman.

>>50526910
I never thought I'd find something on the internet that was so genuinely fucking annoying. Good job, you've done it. I hate you.

>>50526131
>Someone's never read the Wedding of Dame Ragnelle
Except Gawain didn't bail and run, which was sort of the point I was trying to make.
>>50531200
Gawain is super underrated.

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>>50526910
>whiteknighting the princess
>they do it for free

As a DM im guilty of always making the climax of my campaign some kind of invading force of evil humanoids. Nobody has said anything directly but I can tell they've noticed it which means I really have to switch it up.

I just love the ways those play out, and to my own credit they usually end up being defeated differently and its always a fun time.

>>50530937
I always liked imagining just how fucking smug Gawain would have been after that, walking around with a smoking hot wife that could have been King Arthur's just as easily if he hadn't of panic'd.

>>50527451
>People want kids of their own because there's some psychological issues with taking care of something you made yourself.

I think it's got more to do with the evolutionary drive to spread your genes. It's like the difference between being able to build a robot and being able to have a kid.

>>50532671
Gawain is too pure a chivalrous to be smug, which is arguably more infuriating.

>>50532572
Switch it up by making it an invading race of otherkin.

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>>50530937
>I prefer Green Knight.

>>50526064
You know what's worse? When that young, rebellious noblewoman is a player in the party.

>>50526910
Why is he making llamas with his hands

>>50526064
> > It's "The party meets a young rebelious noblewoman, who ran away from her family, because they wanted her to marry an old man" episode.
- She's running because she's actually wanted for assassination attempt of her father, because she tried to make a powergrab for the throne and failed.
- She's running because her parents were just assassinated by the old man, and now he tries to legitimize his ascent to the throne by marrying her (basicaly Empress Emily).
- She's running because her parents AND the old man are involved in a cult of dark magic, and she wasn't aware of it. The marriage is required for some sort of dark ritual.

There you go, zero effort required.

>>50534414
Jesus Christ anon are you stupid or something?

Those are obviously Alpacas.

>>50526910
>pic
Those eyes are pretty fucking empty, famalam.
Those are the eyes of a serial killer, who will mercilessly gut you in the back alley.
I would NOT trust that fox.

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Eh, I tried it before. Not as a DM, but for a character backstory.

Her parents wanted to marry her to a prince from a bigger, more technologically advanced kingdom, using her as a diplomacy tool. She refused because she was in love with a peasant boy. Her father threatened to kill him if she didn't marry the prince, so she went along with it until the wedding day.

The king, being an asshole, executed him at the wedding when he wouldn't shut up. Princess went nuts and slaughtered everyone at the wedding, which included everyone in power from her kingdom, and some people from the bigger kingdom.

So she pretty much single-handedly turned the kingdom to anarchy, which actually worked out fine for a while, until the bigger kingdom came in and took over/enslaved them, imprisoned her in a void for hundreds of years with a powerful spell, leaving her in her hatred and festering rage. By the time she was released, she ended up with an intense hatred of nobility, and developed a way to feed off her hatred and anger as sustenance, as well as draw power from it, much like a paladin or cleric would from a deity.

Unfortunately, by the time she was released, both kingdoms had fallen, and so there was nothing she could do to save her people, so instead she devoted her life to freeing common folk from oppressive notabilities, wearing the armor of the "fiancé" she killed as a sort of disguise for herself, as well as making herself seem more intimidating.

Edgy as hell, but a fun character nonetheless.

>>50526064
>The party meets a rebellious noblewoman, who is currently commanding a large band of bandits and goblins in the marshlands to the south, having sworn to kill her uncle after the massacre of her father and brothers, and the abduction of her mother.
>They happen upon her drilling the goblins in the use of flintlock rifles they've recently stolen during a raid on a nearby military fort.
>Bandits are in the midst of loading cannons into crates for sale to neighboring powers, bolstering them against the usurper's marauding flunkies.

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>>50527386

>>50526064
>Party meets a kindly older noblemen
>Cinnamon bun. To pure for this world.
>His family is well off but... they could do better
>His wife has died, he is the only member of his family who is not married
>His family wants him to marry a rich Noble woman
>He doesn't want it
>He asks to party to save him

R8 Me M8s

>>50526288
>Hoping to outlive her
>going to war

Son, were you born an idiot or did you have to work at it?

>>50526910
Abduct the Prince. Wing it from there.

>>50534414
It's the kitsune hand gesture.
I'm not joking.

>>50536673
Nice.

>>50536705
Hey, some wars can last for fucking ever. Either way he gets what he wants.

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>>50527295

>>50527488
It's actually still super weird.

It's why, for example, the Hadiths make sure to note that Aisha was very mature for her age.
Which wouldn't seem to be a necessary thing to keep mentioning when talking about fucking her if it was normal.

It's why the lawsuit between Joan of France and Louis was so fucking... weird.

The "Western European marriage pattern" (Women marry those they wish in their mid to late twenties) was already fairly solidly established at the end of the medieval era, and we see the precursors of it as far back as antiquity.
That's not to say that child marriages didn't happen, they were just still super weird.

>>50537775
>twenties
That's more because shit nutrition and various other environmental factors delayed onset of puberty sometimes till the mid to late teens, and even then you'd want to wait for a few years of development.

Anyways child(by today's definition) marriages were by no means uncommon or weird, I mean hell there are many places today where it's still practiced and not viewed as strange. It was however relatively uncommon to consummate these marriages any time before first menstruation and instead these marriages were more political/cultural ones. For the most part the whole idea of children and childhood as something special is more of a modern concept than anything though. If you were old enough to work in any serious capacity you were treated like an adult in nearly all senses of the word. Sexual relations however, again as stated before were not particularly common as the delayed onset of puberty combined with the simple fact that in those days people primarily took wives not for simple pleasure, but because having offspring was of primary importance to one's survival. An infertile bride wasn't of much use.

>Hadiths praise Aisha
That's more because she's a venerated figure in Islam though, they praise the shit out anyone directly entangled with the prophet even his damn cat.

>>50526064
So you've never even seen
>The party meets a young rebellious noblewoman, who ran away from her family because she wanted to go kick monster ass?

Play Dragon Quest IV.

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>>50526064
>It's a "See thread on /tg/ talking about cliches or things they hate and start doubting myself and think every one of my ideas are cliche and shit" episode
Please tell me what you think is NOT cliche? I literally just thought up an idea for a character that I thought was amazing but now I don't know.

Also as for that scenario you have there
>Young, upstanding, and polite scholarly nobleman runs away from his family because they wanted him to marry a rebellious young rebel noblewoman who's parents (And yours) all think she is the sweetest thing despite her being a mean bitch.
How's that?

>>50538130
>That's more because she's a venerated figure in Islam though, they praise the shit out anyone directly entangled with the prophet even his damn cat.

See, you'd think so.
And I'd agree. Were it not for the fact that they stress her worldliness mostly when they're talking the consumation, or lack thereof.

Her wisdom is praised all the time, except when its not.
Aisha is actually fairly controversial, Shi'ites usually can't stand her.

>That's more because shit nutrition and various other environmental factors delayed onset of puberty sometimes till the mid to late teens, and even then you'd want to wait for a few years of development.

Yeah, that's the opposite of how it worked actually.
The age of marriage tends to rise with prosperity. It's true for the antiquity, it was true pre and post economic depression, and it was true in the medieval era.


>Anyways child(by today's definition) marriages were by no means uncommon or weird, (...) It was however relatively uncommon to consummate these marriages any time before first menstruation

Actually it was ILLEGAL in christendom (See:Western Europe) to marry a girl before she reached puberty, and popes stressed that fact HARD.
How hard?
Pre-emptive annulment, declarations of heresy, and condemnation all around.

And yes they were uncommon.
They existed, sure, no one is denying that. Again I mentioned the really funny case of Joan of France and king Louis. Which was basically medieval Maury, but literally everything about that case tells you that this shit wasn't normal.

> I mean hell there are many places today where it's still practiced and not viewed as strange

And sure, if we were talking about India, Pakistan, Afghanistan, or really any other place in that region, or Greece that would be fine. But I'm going to go ahead and assume your game is based on an amalgamation of French, British, German, Italian and Spanish middle age culture.

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>Fantasy setting
>Dwarfs, humans, and elves, but lazily reskinned into Umans, Delves and Darfs.

If you're gonna do a tired trope, than at least fucking do it and don't try to hide it in the lamest way possible.

>>50538665
>Actually it was ILLEGAL in christendom (See:Western Europe) to marry a girl before she reached puberty, and popes stressed that fact
>Pre-emptive annulment, declarations of heresy, and condemnation all around.

Well, I was thinking more in the peasantry rather than among people who would have any contact with the papacy. But now that I think about it I guess we were talking about princesses, so yeah sorry about that.

>>50526910

Same as the witches-take-over-the-castle thread, chip in to pay to have the DM chemically castrated.

I once played a gnome who went on adventure! To finance a decent house/living with his forced bride

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>>50526064
Well, I once did an instance where a rebellious old man ran away because he was being married to a young noble woman, and the party made fun of the idea until I buried it.

>Mfw no last adventure.
>Mfw called mad by everyone for wanting to fight gloriously against the darkness that encroaches upon the land.
>Mfw meeting party of adventurers with whom I may escape.
>Mfw turned away and called a fool by even them.
>Mfw dragged away, days later, to rot away in isolation by my own family, none of whom have felt the drive to more than what they were born for.

>>50539429
Honestly, just hearing "rebellious old man ran away because he was being married to a young noble woman" made me cackle externally. It still sounds like a good idea though and you should do it anyway even though it is a bit silly.

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>>50539429
>tfw one servant boy goes along with it
>tfw one last adventure
>tfw old nobleman dies fighting the forces of darkness and passes on his inheritance to the servant boy with hsi final act
>tfw servant boy's now married to the noblewoman and noone can start shit over it because the old man died a hero
Another book gone unwritten, I suppose.

>>50527341
That is some Hera-tier butthurt right there.

>>50538851
Little is written about the peasantry of, for example, France before the end of the medieval era of course. But we do have records from Denmark and Northern Germany and its clear here that peasants would marry later than nobility.

If you'll allow me to completely abandon the medieval era for a second (Which I suppose I did with Muhammed anyway), its also a repeated point of criticism of the nobility by revolutionary and pre revolutionary liberal thinkers in France.

>>50540899
YOU'VE BASICALLY WRITTEN HALF OF DON QUIXOTE DUDE.

>>50526096
This happened all the time, the guy would just literally get everything she owned, sleep around and the woman couldn't do shit about it because she was his chattel.

We men had a good thing going, and you shitlib assholes had to go and ruin it for all of us.

>>50536705
You haven't met her. You haven't shared a house with her. You haven't shared a BED with her. He'd rather have a nice safe battlefield, thank you very much.

>>50526064
>The party meets a young rebelious noblewoman, who ran away from her family, because they wanted her to marry an old man
I like to use this one in scenarios where trying to get her out of it would be an obviously bad idea. She needs to marry the old guy to avert war, or the PCs' job is to bring her back (and they may also be knights who ought to agree with the feudal structure and in any case will be in open rebellion if they try to break it), etcetera.

In general, there's way too much teenagey rebellion-against-society trash in RPGs and I like to fuck with it as much and as often as possible. Oh, you just ignored the strictures of the social contract and shrugged because LOL PCs are ancaps? Okay, now you've been declared outlaw and somebody else lives in your house and a bunch of people looted all your stuff as soon as you left on your last expedition. Recover it? Why, no! You're no longer judicial subjects, in fact, anybody can kill you and nothing will happen to you, and you won't even get a trial if someone accuses you of murder, you'll just get executed since you're an outlaw.

And so on.

>>50542392
>I love murderhobos!

>>50542416
W...what? How did you get to >I love murderhobos! from >I do everything in my power to fuck over murderhoboing? I feel like I was supposed to get ragebaited by this, but I'm so confused I can't even get angry.

>>50542392

>In general, there's way too much teenagey rebellion-against-society trash in RPGs and I like to fuck with it as much and as often as possible.

Well said. Whenever a YA novel protagonist shows up, I do my best to fuck with it as much as possible. I triggered an actual feminist (Not used as a prerogative term, she was card-carrying) by having the Princess the PCs rescued be utterly uninterested in ruling.

> "You could rule the kingdom from the shadows! You could influence the King!"
> "That sounds hard. I have peasants to do things for me."

Cue thirty-minute argument.

>>50542392

This, it's important to give the players a dilemma they can't squirm out of. Then watch them decide what they're going to do. Either way you win, because there's going to be a lot of drama.

>>50526064
The party meets a young rebelious nobleboy, who ran away from her family, because they wanted him to marry an older woman.

>>50542446
I think they're pointing out that if you don't let them do some stuff against the law (even if you fine them/make them do community service, etc [just don't imprison a PC without offering them an out]) then the moment they are declared outlaws, literally the only thing they can do is murderhobo, it looks like you don't give them any chance to make amends.
That leaves them with 2 options; die/stop playing, or live as murderhobos, not even bothing to interact with any NPCs, just going straight to rape, murder, and looting. Because they're outlaws, they won't get a fair say, so why bother saying anything?

>>50542392

Another thing I do in my campaigns is to make sure things are fixed, with no exceptions. If only someone of a certain bloodline can wield a sword, the PCs will never get to use it, ever. No 'You're worthy, so you get to hold it.'

It's the true heir, or it's nothing.

>>50526064
I did that in my campaign, but it was the old man who ran away because he was forced to marry a young, rich woman. She turned out to be a vampire

>>50526064

Twist: The old man is a religous prophet called mohammed.

>>50542455
>> "That sounds hard. I have peasants to do things for me."
That doesn't sound like a noblewoman at all.
There were lots of power hungry bitches back then. And no noble, male or female, would think of "rul[ing] from the shadows" to be a peasants' job.

>>50539106
Of all the unnecessary things to waste your money on...

>>50542483
>nobleboy
>her

/v/ pls go

>>50542493
>the moment they are declared outlaws, literally the only thing they can do is murderhobo, it looks like you don't give them any chance to make amends
Nah, usually you can wergild your way back in if you pile up enough money to pay everybody off.
And if they don't, they typically won't survive long anyway. It's a race against the clock to reinstate themselves in society on square one before their enemies/some rando who likes their clothes get to them. So it's not a long-term thing anyway, it's more of a TPK-and-reroll situation. Helps if you run a game with a fairly high expectation of mortality and no preset "story", I guess, but then I've always found that playing the other way leads directly to this kind of spergouts due to the presumption of immunity.

>>50542518
You base this on nothing.

>>50542534
Look up Cleopatra.

>>50542077
You've never read Don Quixote.

>>50542518

Why? You have a girl raised to be pretty, and to be married off to seal a pact between noble houses and pump out heirs. In return, she gets to be pampered and landed all her life.

You think she's going to write a feminist dissertion? Suffurage ain't happening in this world.

>>50542446
Your method of punishing players for being socially rebellious is cutting off their connections to society. Now they have no place of refuge except the wilderness, and no choice but to resort to solving their problems with violence.

>>50542538

Cleopatra is an example of how NOT to do it.

>>50542518
>the argumentative feminist player appears

>>50542538
You realize that Cleopatra is *the only* noblewoman of her generation and like thirty before it whose name you even know, right? Because she's an exception. The rule is exactly what the guy you're trying to argue with said.

>>50542534
He bases it on literally all of history.

People don't just sit on their laurels. Mostly because they get stabbed in the back even faster that way.
>>50542561
She's an example of someone trying to do it.

>>50542546
>You think she's going to write a feminist dissertion?
No, I don't.
I just think that given the chance she's not going to push it to some farmers.

>>50542546
>I have never picked up a history book: the post
Some people are okay with living in the lap of luxury, male or female. Funny thing that: there was an emperor who spent his whole life retreating into debauchery, because his mother had successfully seized control of all actual rule.

>>50542568
>argumentative fedora joins the fight

>>50542569

Another thing that really triggers people is inheritance. In a world where magic is a real thing, gender roles would be even more rigid. The family's ancestral magic will only respond to the oldest son, even if he's a shitbag. His sister can spend her whole life communing with them, and they'll still eagerly flip to his side when he shows up.

Why? Because he's the first-born son. And that's what matters. (My DM pulled this in one game, but I'm beginning to see the humor in it.)

>>50542599
That's also inaccurate. People fuck up inheritance all the time. Of course they do; why live with a shitbag heir when you could have a perfect one instead?

>>50542614
Because magic.

>>50532762
>Oh, thank goodness, it's just humans this time.
>... What.... What are they doing?
>Why are they having an orgy while wearing those ridiculous suits?
>OH GOD! NOT OUR CHICKENS!!!!

>>50542618
Magic doesn't stop people being people. People have always believed in magic, but they still advance themselves.

>>50542614

Because the compact sealed was according to the Old Law, the Law of Magic. It is the right of the Firstborn to wield the Old Power, even if he decides to lead his house into corruption.

You could say that it's his privilege.

>>50542599
But magic is womens' work.

>>50542597
>fedora
>for having a grasp of real history
Okay, name any Egyptian woman between Hatshepsut and Cleopatra VII who wielded power.

Even if you cheat and Google some shit up, you know yourself that A, you cheated, and B, most people can't do it and there's a reason for that.

>>50542634
I've been on the internet for over 15 years now, and I'm still not sure if women are actually real.

>>50542630
Yep. We've all got Old Laws. Funny how people care more about themselves than laws.

>You could say that it's his privilege.
That's not how the joke works my man.

>>50542638
It's not about who wields power, it's about who wants power.
I mentioned Cleopatra because she quite literally whored herself out because she was not fine with her brother taking the throne.

>>50542585
>there was an emperor who spent his whole life retreating into debauchery, because his mother had successfully seized control of all actual rule
Was he the first robot NEET?

>>50542638
Most people couldn't name more than two dudes. That being Ramses and Tutankhamen.

Also
>Egyptian
>>50542660
Fuck no. Chinks did this shit all the time.

>>50542629

You're trying to deny religion in a setting where the gods are real, and their priests wield their magic to smite unbelievers.

It's magic, dude. The Gods placed men above women, the first-born son over the last-born, and that only the Chosen Bloodline will sit the Throne of Bone. That's just the way things work.

>>50542663
>reading comprehension

>>50542663
>The Gods placed men above women, the first-born son over the last-born, and that only the Chosen Bloodline will sit the Throne of Bone. That's just the way things work.
>SO SAYETH ZEUS, KING OF THE GODS:
>IF YOU DON'T HAVE A BONE, YOU CAN'T HAVE THE THRONE
>(WE CALL IT THAT FOR A REASON)

>>50542680

That's your answer. People can advance themselves, but there's a natural order.

It's like in Exalted. The Dragon-blooded kill the Solars, and what happens? The world goes to shit. The spirit courts and Heaven turns away from Creation. The Wyld presses in, and the world languishes.

Only the return of the Solars, of the greatest of all the Exalted, can put things right. Because the Unconquered Sun dictated that the Solars would be placed above all others, and it was their right to rule Creation.

>>50542655
>I mentioned Cleopatra because she quite literally whored herself out because she was not fine with her brother taking the throne.
Sure, but the vast majority of e.g. Roman matrons were perfectly happy to just lie around eating dormice in honey and getting pumped by their older husbands. Just like most rich wives now don't conspire to control their husbands' business empires or whatever. At most their will to power expresses itself in cunty squabbles over status with their fellow rich wives.

>>50542707
You don't understand.

It doesn't matter what laws there are. It doesn't matter if everyone hates the idea of a woman ruler, and it doesn't matter WHY they would, either. Women will still want to rule, because people are ambitious. Sure, it'd be less efficient, but ruling is better than not, right?

>>50542717
>getting pumped by their older husbands
>not getting pumped by the nubile serving boys
Learn to noble.

>>50542717
>I want to prove women were never ambitious whores
>I know! I'll use the Romans as an example!
Bud you might wanna pick another culture.

>>50542723

Your point?

>>50542723
>You don't understand.
No, you don't understand. I'm not even the guy you are arguing with.
Reread his post.
Shit like
>Women will still want to rule
I mean, seriously. He quite clearly covered that in his post. It doesn't fucking matter if you want to rule if the LAW says you are not going to.

>>50542763
Laws change.

>>50542738
Yep, as long as you make damn sure you have a full cargo of your husbands goods, then there is no reason why you can't take on extra crew.

>>50542717
>the vast majority of e.g. Roman matrons were perfectly happy to just lie around eating dormice in honey
Why don't you provide some evidence for that?
Google just gave me this.
https://classicalwisdom.com/three-awesome-women-ancient-rome/

>>50542775
Not that anon, but
>Laws change.
What part of GODS, and DIVINE WILL, do you not understand?

Just give it up already, you fucking idiot.

>>50542775
Not magical ones.

>>50542763
No, you. See, I've already covered THAT in my post.

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>it really is just one retarded argumentative feminist refusing to even read posts or understand what's being said
Okay, let's all just agree to ignore Fergus the Spergus and move on. What are some good ways to fuck up PCs who disregard the rules of society without going straight to outlawry? I agree with the guys who said that it creates a really one-sided situation for the players, so for games where you might want to keep the PCs alive even after they do something stupid, what are some good options?

/tg/ can we just agree that SOME people will be ambitious and others won't? And that fucking with players' expectations is fun?

I've got another cliche for you...

>Young noblewoman is betrothed to a stranger and runs away
>Takes up archery (Ranger class).
>Joins a party of adventurers.
>Meets a lovely young warlock. Has a kid.
>Settles down to open an inn.

Meanwhile...

>Young nobleman betrothed to a stranger and runs away
>Makes a Fae pact (warlock class)
>Joins a party of adventurers
>Meets a charming young ranger. Has a kid.
>Settles down to open an inn.

If the players bother to learn about the NPCs, they can reveal to the innkeepers that they're both nobles and their child has a legitimate claim to a throne. AND since both parents are badass retired adventurers, they might actually be able to push it.

Catch is, the players will actually need to interact with the innkeepers enough to learn their life story.

>>50542829
>I am too passive-aggressive to respond to one of the people who disagree with me on an anonymous image board

Also you just have people respond as you would expect. It's used as political leverage against you, some people will be legitimately offended, especially the plebs. People will be reticent at best in dealing with you -- BUT you will have people supporting you, on the flip side.

You're not there to be some mighty judge though. You're not aiming to fuck people up, you're aiming to provide a realistic seeming challenge.

>>50542829
There are pretty clearly a bunch of people calling you out, anon.

>>50542849
>they can reveal to the innkeepers that they're both nobles
I bet that's going to ruin their marriage.

>>50542829
I've got a party of adventurers in the employ of a major city-state. They're about a level ahead of the party and (mostly) LG types. I plan on making another one or two of these guys.

If the players want to fight them, sure! They can probably win, with a little thinking.

If the players befriend them, they can be hired as backup muscle, tied into the "war sequences" I've laid groundwork for in the campaign.

One of these rival parties might be sent after the heroes if the PCs fuck up. They might be sent out to subdue the PCs but decide to let them go, because the NPC paladin owes the cleric her life. Etc etc.

>>50542798
>>50542801
>implying a sufficiently ambitious human won't rewrite the laws of magic just to give themselves a better chance of coming out on top
>implying the age of magic didn't end because a mundane did this in the past

>>50542930
That's irrelevant; you can write magic how you want. More to the point
>implying people care about magic
Nothing's going to stop people unless it literally stops people. Ancestors can keep quiet for a generation, if a woman really wants power.

>Shift looking Grand Advisor to the King. Doesn't trust the party and wants them removed. Tall and thin with a goatee. Has a staff carved like a snake he walks with and leans on. Always seen talking quietly into the Kings ear every council meeting. Doesn't blink very often.

Turns out he just doesn't trust foreigners or mercenaries or your band of merry foreign mercenaries. He has a goatee because they were all the style fifty years ago and he isn't changing his look now. He walks with a stick because he has a club foot you insensitive bastard, stop drawing attention to it. No he doesn't know why it's carved like a snake. Kings grandfather gave it to him decades ago and he never thought to ask. Doesn't blink very often because he's watching what your doing with your hands you shifty foreign twat. Always whispering to the king because it's a big Kingdom with a million things going on at once and the King can't be expected to remember every little thing and needs reminding. Sure advisor Snake-looking-old-man might be the power behind the throne for the last 60 years, kingdom has prospered.

>>50542930

> implying a sufficiently ambitious human won't rewrite the laws of magic just to give themselves a better chance of coming out on top

Exalted did this neatly. No mundane mortal ever accomplished anything major, because if a mortal was that awesome, he'd Exalt as a Solar.

You want to be the kind of guy who goes "I don't need your help, Gods! I can fucking do it on my own!"

Congratulations, your willpower and drive has made you worthy of a Solar Exaltation. If fate has a sense of irony, it'd make you a Zenith - A Priest of the Unconquered Sun.

>>50542939
I think you misunderstood. I'm talking about someone changing or erasing the laws of magic in-story, not out of story.

>>50543059

Also, "I can rewrite the laws of magic" is also neatly pigeonholed into "Of course you can, you're a Twilight Caste now. You are THE Sorcerer Supreme."

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>>50526910
>proxy wars all over the land
>terroristic groups orgnization
>proxy demon invasions
>instigating rebellions

We are crashing this world.
WITH NO SURVIVORS

>>50534838
Why not all three of them?

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>>50534941
That's the proper way to play kitsune NPCs. Any of the crazy bullshit an unseelie fey would pull, a youkai would also pull.

>>50543060
I know. But our anon's GM could have said that magic cannot be rewritten.

>>50543060

The laws of magic can't be rewritten. It's like trying to deny gravity by wishing it really hard.

>>50536683
8/80 m80, not enough b8 for the party

>>50543059
Quality DMing. I'd laugh if that happened to my character.

>>50543106
>>50543120
We live in a deterministic world. You can't go kill the God of Gravity.

>>50543120
>It's like trying to deny gravity by wishing it really hard.
Bad example, because that's precisely how magic works.

>>50542849
This has potential. Especially for unintended comedy for a more light hearted tone of campaign.

>>50543152
Perhaps you can't go kill the God of Magic.

On the other hand, you can always build a rocket. Why not claim the throne?

>>50543155

No, magic is another fundamental rule that you're just taking advantage off.

Are you defying physics when you rub two sticks together to start a fire?

>>50543155
Maybe in your setting, sure.
>>50543174
You don't have to start a fire.

>>50536705
It's not like they're gonna place him in the frontlines, considering his lineage is important enough that allows him to marry a rich widow being pisspoor. Unless he asks to be on the frontlines, of course, but he probably won't. Not to mention that going to war might not be exactly optional for a young nobleman.

>>50536705
Wars are, by and large, pretty safe affairs. Your average battle isn't even going to be that dangerous. More people die from dysentry, and most people just desert.

Obviously it's more dangerous than no war, but it's not a stupid thing to do.

>>50543201
>Wars are, by and large, pretty safe affairs.
Not in fiction.
It's amazing how many armies are willing to fight to the last man in people's imagination.

>>50538661
It's a bit cliche but it's okay. Cliches are not bad by themselves. Just don't make the whole character be about that (it still can be a primary theme) and make sure she's not the 4th character like this in your group. That's what OP was talking about and what makes people rant about cliches.

Personally, I never had a character like this in any of my games as DM or player. The closest thing was a PC of mine who had to marry a mob boss after losing a bet, so she exiled herself because fuck consequences.

>>50526064
>a "magic system" or "the laws of magic"

If it has verifiable rules and reproducible outcomes it's not magic, it's just science for a really weird universe

>>50543296
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/magic
Nothing about the definition says you can't apply scientific method to it.

>>50543231
Considering the context I am pretty certain that is not the case in this specific fiction.

>>50543387
>supernatural
>supernatural
>supernatural
In a magical universe it's not supernatural.

>>50543387
>>50543497
btw the conclusion is you're both right; it IS just science for a weird universe, but to us, the people writing and reading/playing it, it is magic.

>>50542542
>Old guy wants to go on one last adventure, brings along one servant.
>Old guy wants to die fighting the forces of darkness

I said half.

>>50543567
I know.

I said you've never read Don Quixote.

>>50532731
And then you find out the hottie you ARE marrying is fucking your other employee on the side

>>50543645
>employee
Round table motherfucker. This is an anarcho-syndicalist commune.

>>50543633
An unsubstantiated claim that I will give no further attention.

>>50543567
This has nothing to do with Don Quixote. Don Quixote is the early modern equivalent of a hobbo dressed as Napoleon disturbing the public order in today's New York. Later he convinces a dude to do it with him (but the dude still believes he's mad).

This is half Quixote.

>>50543705
An unsubstantiated evasion, because how could you ever answer? You've never read Don Quixote.

To give some substance: DQ does not want to go on "one last adventure", nor in truth does he want to fight evil. At a slightly deeper level he wants to bring back chivalry -- at the actual level, he wants to do whatever the fuck he wants (he even explicitly says this at the beginning of Part II). He wants to fulfill his will so much he literally rejects reality and substitutes his own -- he forces reality to obey him, because it is disappointing. All of this while doing good, yes, but his own kind of good.

>>50526064
>the party meets an old man wanting to experience one last adventure before marrying a young rebelious noblewoman

>>50543848
>Pshh, reading threads? Why would I ever do that?

>>50543675
>king arthur
>sir lancelot
One swore fealty to the other, and not the other way around. Also, knights are the lowest noble title, you know. This is like the boss's wife sleeping with the mail room manager.

How about:
She's a nice girl and feels sorry for the old man, so your party has to find an old lady to love the man until they die.

>>50534414
NWO 4 LIFE

>>50528514

Now we are talking. The hottie hires the party to bring back her runaway fiancé, if successful they are invited to the wedding but soon father they discover the hottie true aims and her plan to give her husband a heart attack on their wedding night. The last part of the adventure is a race against time to pussyblock the hottie and save the old man while their family and friends stand on their way.

>>50527205
>She also can't keep a fiance because she drinks a lot

>>50527295

That's not really a twist, but the sad yet true reality of arranged marriages from old times and current times.

I remember I had a classmate whose family was from the Middle East, and she told me a story about, I believe, her Aunt who was 9 when she was married off to some dude in his forties who would have to chase down the street whenever he tried to fuck the child.

It's pretty fucked up.

>>50542599
>. In a world where magic is a real thing, gender roles would be even more rigid. The family's ancestral magic will only respond to the oldest son, even if he's a shitbag. His sister can spend her whole life communing with them, and they'll still eagerly flip to his side when he shows up.
>Why? Because he's the first-born son
That's a lot of fucking assumptions about the magic system in order to make your example work

>>50526064
The party meets a fat and angry noblewoman. She has pink hair and acts very rudely towards the paladin and the elvish sorceress. Through her mad and asthmatic shrieks, the characters learn her story. It seems that she ran away because her family wanted to marry her to a handsome prince (and rich, and excellent jouster), while she identifies as a trebuchet and only feels attracted towards round rocks. She's also absolutely against killing orcs, gobelins and bugbears, because they're people, too. If the character complain about anything, she'll mock them, telling them that they cannot handle a real woman like her (despite her identifying as a trebuchet).

>>50536673
Okay, I am with you on the Monstergirl displacer beast.

But why is she giant?

>>50544856
But trebuchets aren't people. She shouldn't object to being taken apart for transportation.

>>50544922
Her mommy loved Stone Giant dickings?

>>50545066
>her father doesn't know, but he isn't actually the father
>the mother doesn't know, but she isn't actually the mother
So it's just a random kid that somehow appeared at an opportune moment to be confused for the royal offspring?
What kind of a confusion is this?

>>50545123
A grand confusion?

>>50544856
Joke's on you, I'm using this as a character background for PC built around thrown weapons.

>The prince is either completely incompetent or the paragon of effectiveness
Can't we have royals as people? I mean, it would explain why he tolerates the murderhobos.

>>50530937

I heard a different version of this. It started with..

>Black knight come in', swinging Black knight dick (Similar invincibility to Green Knight Story)
>Challenges Arthur with the same riddle as above
>if he doesn't get it right, straight murder him.
>Has a year
>Didn't choose the Black Knight life, etc
>Gawain has Arthur's back
>Goes across the with Arthur land, asking women "What'chu want, baby?"
>Different answers
>Year almost up.
>"Bitches be triflin'."
>Ugly old hag shows up
>Just awful.
>Needs to use lotion, etc
>Has the answer, but young buck Gawain has to put a ring on it.
>Arthur is like "Dude, we'll just fight the Black Knight, it's cool."
>Gawain is like "Nah, I'll take one for you. Again."
>Black Knight comes around "What's theanswer, dead motherfuckers???"
>Women want their own way.
>FUCK Black Knight fucks off with his weak shit.
>Later on Hag shows up for court, and it's time to get hers.
>"Seriously bro, I'm King, we can just not do this."
>"Nah, bro, I got too much honor for that shit."
>Get married
>Whole court thinks this shit is hilarious
>When they are alone, the Hag turns into a total dime by the moonlight.
>"So what's it gonna be, Papi? Cat Lady by day, Tigress by night or Arm Candy by Stale Candy by night?"
>"... Whatever you want, baby."
>Right Answer
>Next day the entire court is FLOORED when Gawain and his Lady step out.
>Lancelot is butthurt forever.

And that's why it pays to be an honorable mother fucker like Gawain.

>>50536235
That sounds stupid as fuck

>>50542796
>Why don't you provide some evidence [that the *majority* of women did not conspire to rule]?
>Look, I found a whole three women who totally wanted to rule!

Were you just born stupid or was it the women's studies classes that did this to you?

>>50546017
I have proven that some did not just want but actually succeeded in making their influence felt.
Why don't you provide some evidence that all those who didn't succeed never even tried?

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>>50545794
>>"Bitches be triflin'."
normally not a fan of the "it's funny cuz niggers talk like this" meme, but this was genuinely entertaining.

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>>50526910
>"The party meets a crossdressing shota trap kitsune prince, who ran away form the imperial throne, because they wanted him to marry a lusty rebellious young princess

>>50543645
>french self-insert fanficton
>canon

Pick one

>>50526064
>Ancient race with highly advanced technology
>Power of Love/Friendship
>Member of [race] but not like the rest (Drizzt syndrome)

>>50549625
>Member of [race] but not like the rest
This seems a bit unfair. At this rate anything is cliche whether it's a guy from a race acting like his race or a guy from his race NOT acting like his race.
I was going to say "As long as the idea is unique instead of ironically generic it's fine" but I can't even think of any examples other than Drizzt where this would even happen. I guess humans raised in the wild by animals? Other than that I don't really think that ever happens a lot.

>>50550314
>At this rate anything is cliche whether it's a guy from a race acting like his race or a guy from his race NOT acting like his race.
The real problem is races that are walking cliches.
When all the drow in your game are baby-eating monsters with spiky armor and an elitist attitude then you fucked up the race, no matter if you have a singular exception or not.
Similarly, not all dwarfs should be alcoholic miners/smiths with a violent streak, Viking dress-code and Irish accent.
Same for the other races.

>>50550480
I don't really think that races being archetypical is a problem nor is it really a cliche.
All races having their archetypical personalities/looks is fine so long as you make your character his own character even if your dwarf is still Erick Stonebeard and your elf is Quickfoot, the Rogue/Ranger. This is expecially true for ones going against the archetype. I still rather like humans raised in the wild kind of characters still.

>>50542849
>the final twist: they were betrothed to each other from the start

>>50551244
I'm pretty sure that was the intention from the start.

>>50543201
>Wars are, by and large, pretty safe affairs.

>The best place to be during the war is the army! Idiots on the frontlines get their asses shot off, civilians in the rear get their asses blown off with bombs, but the army personnel survives. I'm a clerk. Did you ever hear anything about a clerk being shot?

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>>50552022
>Did you ever hear anything about a clerk being shot?

I shot the clerk?

>>50550859
>I don't really think that races being archetypical is a problem nor is it really a cliche.
That's what cliches are about though.
>cli·ché also cli·che (klē-shā′)
>n.
>[]
>2. A person or character whose behavior is predictable []
When your entire race falls into the same stereotype, it's a cliche race.

>>50552954
Okay then by your definition is human the only non cliche race?

>>50552022
Your quote is from the wrong time, moron.
The guy you are quoting is discussing medieval warfare.

Old-style battles weren't nearly as lethal as modern ones.
As weapon systems (guns) improved the casualty numbers steadily went up as well. But even so, up to WW1 people still considered war to be a healthy place to be to train body and mind. It was only in those first few months of the first modern war that people realized that they needed to rethink their idea of what war meant.

>>50552984
Nah, depending on the system elves and dwarfs still have plenty of space to create something fresh. The other races, not so much.

>>50553076
Again though, this seems really biased. Are you sure you just haven't seen any characters you think is good? Or maybe you're just too cynical and dislike anything you've seen before and call it cliche as if it's always a bad thing. Like I said before, cliched characters can still be good as long as they're within reason. Or maybe someone really just wants to play a typical hammer using blacksmith Dwarf. Is there really anything wrong with that? And is there really anything wrong with someone wanting to play an atypical bow using treehugger Dwarf?

>>50526910
Seduce my way past the problem.

He's not marrying any princess if he gets addicted to dick first.

>>50526064
Let's spice things up.
>The party meets an older gentleman, who ran away from his family, because they wanted him to marry a young beauty of higher status infatuated with him and he thought the age difference was creepy.

>>50542392
But people like rebels against society. So what if there's too much teenage angst worked in? Just try and cut that out and focus on the rebels from another angle.

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>>50544383
her plan to give her husband a heart attack on their wedding night.

How is she going to give him a heart attack?
This dude had one when his mistress/prostiute gave him a blowjob, he died during it

>>50559064
She has a notebook.

>>50532712
>I'm going to say the same thing with different words!

>>50559438
>I shall repeat the previous poster's message but phrased differently

>>50526064
One of my PCs is basically this and she's lots of fun. This OP is a stale cliche.

>>50559490
And important thing to remember is that cliches/tropes are not necessarily bad.
It always depends on how you dress them up.

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>>50526096
>It would still be creepy as shit. Hell, the fact that she's desperate due to biological clock would make things worse, in my opinion. Especially if she uses magic to hide her true appearance and he saw through it

>>50526096
>>50526164
Happens all the time. My first Pathfinder character was a half-elf slayer who started with +13 to stealth because he had so much practice hiding from his horny old noble wife

>>50526910
I check under ''her'' skirt.

>>50560605
For concealed "weapons"?
What are you going to do with any artillery that you find? Will you test-fire it?

>>50526910
Probably by punching me in the dick and walking out of the room.

>>50526910
Is it a shrine kitsune or one of those rapist fuckers?