Is a desire and search for immortality necessarily evil?

>>50520560

I don't think so. Just because something like immortality violates some kind of natural law doesn't make it inherently evil. It would be like saying building houses and civilizations is evil since you aren't living with nature.

>>50520560
The guy who wrote Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality seemed to think it was part of natural human desire, so... yeah, it's probably a pretty douchey desire at the very least.

>>50520622
Shots fired!

>>50520622
Yeah, but Harry Potter and the Natural 20 implies that it is entirely acceptable for Neutrally aligned and even Good aligned PCs to pursue immortality.

>>50520622
>>50520850
We can't just use Harry Potter Fanfiction to justify all our moral viewpoints.

>>50520560
If it were, then most all religions aside from Hindu and Bhuddism would be evil.

So the answer isn't so much the pursuit of immortality, but rather how much you value your ambition for not dying over ethics and morality.

>>50520867
yes we can

>>50520867
THE FUCK WE CAN'T!

>>50520867
I based my moral code on My Immortal. It's not really a "moral code" so much as a treatise on my irrational hatred of preps.

>>50521024
>My Immortal.
People actually read that? I thought it was just a meme

>>50520560
What do you even mean by immortality?
Most immortal creatures in fiction get killed.
Do you just mean "immune to aging"? What's so evil about that? Should be wipe out the elves for having achieved it?

>>50521136
...Yes.

>>50520560
Technology that extends the human life span is considered good, generally speaking. Therefore immortality, av extension of the human life span is probably considered good.

>>50521024
Was that the Avatar the Last Airbender one?

>>50521136
>>50521136
No, we wipe out the elves because they're elves, not because of any special trait they have. Suffer not the Elf and all that. It's the principle of the thing.

>>50521163
How I became yours

>>50521153
>Technology that extends the human life span is considered good, generally speaking.
Actually, the people who are working on extending the human lifespan indefinitely have reported on struggling on attaining public support because apparently most people think that what they're trying to achieve is plain wrong.

>>50521235
t. my ass

>>50521235
If you're talking about stem cell research, you know that's for reasons unrelated to life span, and you're being pretty sneaky trying to use it as example.

>>50520560
Who is Pat and why is he a toilet?

>>50521377
one of the super best friends, of the podcast of the same name, and probably because he would accept being a toilet if it meant immortality.

>>50520560
no.

>>50521269
>>50521290
Aubrey de Grey said it in an interview. He actually polled the audience in that same interview and most said that humans should not live forever (barring accidents).
I can't find the exact interview anymore though.

>>50521377
Super Best Friends Play, youtube videogame LP group of some notoriety. Pat has gone on record saying he would do anything to become immortal, even if it meant living as a literal toilet for all eternity.

Meanwhile, another member named Woolie has gone on record saying he would sell humanity out to aliens if it meant he can get a jetpack and some green goo. He also said he would totally sacrifice the lifeforce of others to be able to do double jumps and boosts in real life

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>>50521118
Not him but I had about seven people hanging out and getting hammered while my flamboyantly gay friend read it allowed.

We turned an old door into a massive flow chart and diagram in an attempt to keep track of relationships, the volumous spelling variations of character names, and the hilarious outbursts of the senile Dumbly Dore.

It's a once and only once in a lifetime achievement making it all the way through.

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>>50521148
FUCK THE ELVES
>>50521136

>>50521269
>>50521290
>>50521479
Oh hey I found it.
https://youtu.be/DkBfT_EPBIo?t=600

>>50521488
>Snuff that pupper for a shinespark
Woolie Madden, 2016

>>50521602
Fucking hell listening to these guys talk makes ~3 hours of my work week disappear.

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>>50520560
>immortality
Immortality is a spook. You can't achieve perfect immortality, and if you can, I think it no longer falls into the matters and categorizations of "mortality" or "immortality". Yeah, sure, maybe you can find a way to live long enough that there wouldn't be a meaningful difference, but actual immortality?

It's like having a game without a goal or fail-state - it's no longer a game at that point. Imagine if there was a Tetris game, where filling up the pit didn't mean the game ends - it would just go on meaninglessly, and all the score you've accumulated wouldn't mean anything, because you actually are unable to finish the game and record your score.
Likewise, existence without a possibility of its cessation loses all of its meaning.

>b-but you can always end your life, just like you can always close the game!
Then it isn't perfect immortality by definition.

I'm just saying - people operate with such concepts like "infinity", "impossibility" or "immortality" when they actually mean things like "very big number that is begger than anything I can think of", "very small possibility that it probably won't happen in my lifetime", or "living long enough to experience everything worth experiencing". The concepts of "infinity", "impossibility" and "immortality" are simply impossible for a normal human (cue the irony) to encompass.

Basically, humanity is guilty of lack of imagination, and tries to believe that the nature operates under their misconceptions.

"Oh, this 1000-year old person? TOTALLY WILL OPERATE UNDER THE SAME MORALS AND MOTIVES AS A HUMAN WITH NORMAL LIFESPAN".

>>50521612
>It's like having a game without a goal or fail-state
Have you ever heard of sandbox games?
Those are popular.

>it would just go on meaninglessly, and all the score you've accumulated wouldn't mean anything, because you actually are unable to finish the game and record your score.
>I can't have fun if I'm not going to die
Is that really what you are saying?

>Likewise, existence without a possibility of its cessation loses all of its meaning.
Why?
Children aren't aware of their mortality. That usually comes at around age 12. Do they look like they have no ambition or feel no fulfillment from accomplishing things?

>>50521602
>CLOUD NIGGERS
Liam Allen-Miller, 2015

>>50521612
>immortality is a spook.
Careful there anon, if I hadn't have read the rest of the post, I would've mistaken you for Stirner

>>50521669
Every time you here Woolie go "Yeeeaaaauuuuuh" in the LP, you can here him hollow out more and more.

>>50521710
The Omicron LP has degraded to the point where they are literally reading a walkthrough, AND STILL FAILING.

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>>50521662
>Have you ever heard of sandbox games?
They only work because people are able to come up with their own goals. It was a pretty shitty analogy in the first place to illustrate how immortality is unlikely to work as intended.

>Is that really what you are saying?
Fun is a transient concept. I imagine an "immortal" being would transcend it somewhere along the line.

>Children aren't aware of their mortality. [...] Do they look like they have no ambition or feel no fulfillment from accomplishing things?
Actually, yes, they lack ambition, at least, in the classic sense of the word "ambition". They simply reach for whatever they want at the moment.

Consider this: "I want a toy."
>"Why do you want a toy?"
"I dunno, I just want it."
>"When do you want this toy?"
"I want it right now."
>"How are you going to get this toy?"
"I dunno, I'll just get it."
>"What are you going to do with this toy after you get it?"
"I dunno."
>"Is this toy important to you?"
"Yes!"
>"And after you get it?"
"I dunno."

Actually, you're probably right - immortal beings would likely regress to a childlike state or maybe even beyond that. I mean, it's fitting - being more like a force of nature than an actual human being.

>>50521674
Nah, personally, I'd rather take a leap of fate and create good of my own, even if there is none in the universe.

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>>50521809
>I'd rather take a leap of fate and create good of my own, even if there is none in the universe.
Top taste in Existentialists there

>>50520560
While attempting or achieving immortality doesn't seem to be inherently evil, coveting immortality almost inevitably seems to be.

>>50521809
>They only work because people are able to come up with their own goals.
Right. But "people are able to come up with their own goals" can also be applied to "people", which is a real thing that you can see in the real world. Your point is thus defeated.
>They simply reach for whatever they want at the moment.
That is true for small children, but not for 9 year olds.
>Actually, you're probably right - immortal beings would likely regress to a childlike state or maybe even beyond that.
That's not what I said and you have no evidence to support it.

>>50521612
Semantic arguments are a spook. Your comment dues nothing to advance the discussion, and you're just nitpicking.

When you read immortality in this thread, replace it with "life that lasts exactly as long as the person living it wants it to"

All your semantic bullshit disappears magically now.

>>50521856
>and you have no evidence to support it.
That's a funny thing to say. Have a hearty chuckle.

>>50521878
And what happens when said person stops wanting to live anymore? He magically ceases to exist?
Also, "want" is a really fickle thing. You can always manipulate a person into suicide, I doubt that fits into the concept of immortality as you define it.

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>most religions promise immortality
>almost everyone desires immortality
>but somehow seeking immortality is evil

I will never understand this meme.

>>50521937
That is actually pretty easy to understand. You said it yourself.
>most religions promise immortality
Basically, you are taking for yourself the thing that the Big Daddy should give you for your good behaviour.

You are a naughty kid that takes the cookie jar on his own instead of waiting for his parents to give it to him.

>>50521937
I think it's sour grapes. You can't live forever, so "oh, that's OK, I'm sure immorality is cursed anyway."

And desu it is. Some awful shit lasts an awful long time. People do bad shit out of pride and legacy, and comparatively, it would seem, more good things out of self sacrefice.

>>50521196
WANANANAANANNA

>>50521784
I know. It's glorious.

>>50520867
True, but Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them has made me question Rowling's grip on reality.
I mean come on, Scamander saw a man about to be raped to death by an animal and thought "I should help the animal". This is a man who thinks his animals aren't dangerous after spending the entire movie stopping them from wreaking havoc. Even the adorable niffler was a problem.

This is a man who sees an elephant-sized rhino with a horn that doubles as a C4 injector and thinks "perfectly safe".

And we're supposed to say "what a great guy, he solved all the problems he created that were completely unrelated to the real plot of the movie"

>>50521612
>>50521878
>spook
What does this bullshit meme even mean?

>>50522076
Huh, my moral problems with the events of that film tended more towards "man, isn't systematic forcible memory editing on such a large scale kind of fucked up when you think about it?"

>>50522161
It's a term designed to be misused by first year philosophy majors. Whenever you see it, the proper thing to do is tell them that they're the spook.

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>>50522221
>>50522161
>they don't even play Ghostbusters: Stirner Edition

>>50522169
Well I already thought that about Harry Potter going into the movie.
At least with the animal thing, Hagrid had an obviously skewed perspective: he didn't get that a love tap to him is a fatal blow for regular people, and so thinks that monsters (a line is drawn between magical beasts, Dark creatures and flat-out monsters) are just 2cool4school, you just don't get them, they're misunderstood.

Speaking of memory modification, I've been rereading the series - in Book 5, there's that scene where Umbridge is interrogating Harry and Cho's traitor friend about the DA. Kingsley Shacklebolt pulls off a silent Memory Charm on the friend, MAKING HER FORGET ALL OF HER TIME IN THE DA AND THE REASON SHE TURNED TRAITOR IN THE FIRST PLACE. This poor girl now has the word "SNEAK" written across her face in big purple zits and she likely has no idea why. And Dumbledore says "Good thinking, Kingsley".

Also, Floo powder is an awful idea. All you need to enter a building is the address and fancy dirt.

"1600 Pennsylvania Ave!"

>>50520560
Don't ask us, ask your priest.

>>50522161
It's derived from poorly translated versions of Max Stirner's philosophies. Basically it means the same as "social construct", that the thing it's used to describe is made up, and acting like it's not is implicitly negative.

>>50521710
It was lovely watching him slowly lose his humanity during the Heavy Rain stream

>>50521612
Why must life even be a game in the first place?
Why can we not free ourselves from the shackles of our game master, whether he be a creator or unthinking nature, and instead define our own meaning for life?

Why must we be forced to play this game, why must we be forced to play any game at all?

Why can we not create our own game?

>>50520560
Not necessarily, but the drive for immortality often entails a willingness to do literally anything to achieve it, no matter how morally objectionable it might be.
If a character worked with theories and formulae instead of trying to use beings as test subjects to prolong their own lives, then I'd say it's even a moderately interesting motivation.

>>50520560
Not if the individual wants to achieve it through nonevil means.
Unless the gods lable it all evil because they want your soul.

>>50521784
I love it. I love the self inflicted suffering. That part with the screwdriver where Woolie didn't tell them that they are looking for a door was the high-point for my week.

>>50521479
>dumb humans try to fuck over our boy
Fucking idiots

>>50520560
Sorta
It's mostly gay

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Friendly reminder that Paige is best zaibatsu girl

>>50521479
In a way I agree with them. Humans as they are now are complete dogshit and I wouldn't trust most people with a can of cola let alone the keys to the immortality engine.

On the other hand, *I* sure as fuck want to be immortal. Fuck everyone else though, if only because I just don't trust people with it.

Plus you also get the inevtiable shit where the rich would just get richer, possibly suppressing immortality for the poorfags.

>>50527259
>Plus you also get the inevtiable shit where the rich would just get richer, possibly suppressing immortality for the poorfags.
But that's a good thing; do you really want welfare sucklers and plebes living forever?

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>>50527061
tight sweaters & yoga pants do wonders for a healthy body

Does it involve invading the continent of friendly arch-angels and attempting to take it by force? Because that is evil.

>>50529230
>eternal life is worth less than conquering some angels
>implying conquest is even evil in the first place

>>50529520
Referencing the Silmarillion here.

The Numenoreans were tricked by Sauron into believing the Valar had the secret of immortality. They didn't but the Numenoreans refused to believe them, and invaded anyways. As punishment their continent was sunken beneath the ocean by Eru Illuvatar.

>>50521784
There's a reason its called a suffer through now.

>>50521118
I have read it more than once.

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>>50529230
Well sometimes angels are cunts that need to be taken down a notch

>>50528955
Just for you.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1c2KzJbcGA

>>50527259
>Plus you also get the inevtiable shit where the rich would just get richer, possibly suppressing immortality for the poorfags.
This is the shittiest fucking argument. If you want to make money off it it's better if you give it to everyone, not the 1% of the population.

>>50530159
>charge something at $1 for a million people
>charge something at $10,000,000 for one person
>make more money because the people that can afford it are so rich that it's chump change to them
>added benefit of NOT having filthy plebs live forever

>>50530215
That's not how it fucking works. Since the scientific community is pretty much interconnected, something this big would be avaible in India for 10$ the next day. And
>implying that they don't want the plebs to work forever to gut pensions

>>50520581
The building of structures is a behaviour exhibited by many species, and the use of tools and technologies of varying degrees of sophistication is also exhibited by many species. The argument that buildings and civilization are against nature is invalid, and therefore so too is your analogy.

Though as a caveat I credit you the intelligence, obviously, to understand the invalidity of the tech is against nature argument, and I'm not accusing you of holding that sentiment. Again, that's obviously inferred by your post.

>>50522247
They've mentioned a Floo Network a few times, which seems to imply the locations need to be prepared somehow, so you can't just go ANYWHERE, supposedly.

>>50530262
>>implying that they don't want the plebs to work forever to gut pensions

>implying the plebs aren't interchangeable
>keeping a pleb on the workforce where you'll have to keep giving them raises as the centuries tick by
>not just letting them die and hiring a new one, since they keep making more of themselves

>>50521118
My immortal is fucking great, though all those goth references might feel dated if you read it now.

>>50521488
I think Pat once brought up the trend of Woolie trading a living creature's life for thing that will give him vertical mobility.

>>50521669
>Aryan Resurrection
Patrick Boivin 2013

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DEPENDS
ON
SETTING

In a universe where Gods and Heaven empirically exist, immortality is only a pursuit for the wretched who seek to evade Hell.
If you were actually a good person, you wouldn't need immortality. It would be handed to you on a radiant sparkling platter.

>>50529721
>implying mads and his ludens bros won't be the good guys

>>50520560

What about an extension to one's life span? Not immortality per se, but for example, a Thri-kreen who wants to live as long as humans do? My character aims to use a Sun Orchid elixir to extend the lifespan of his species to 100 years instead of the usual 30, so that his people have an opportunity to familiarize themselves with the "soft-shell" races and are thus seen as more than mere monsters.

>>50520560
Not evil unless you intend to do evil with the immortality or you use evil methods in pursuit of it. Immortality is just a state of being.

>>50530893

What can change the nature of a man?

>>50531393
Memes. The DNA of soul.

>>50531393
Helm of Opposite Alignment.

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The auto-blow.

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>>50531393
What can't? Who's to say what man's nature truly is? Is it not the nature of things to change in the first place?

>>50520560
No, but whoever drew that image certainly is.

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>>50527061
How????

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>>50533152

>>50522221
>>50523290
Thanks.

>>50520560
No. The desire and search for wealth for the sake of wealth, however, is a universal evil.

>>50536415
A desire cannot be evil.
You can't help your desires. They come unbidden. To be judged for what you have no influence on would be silly.
I would cautiously agree that the possession of wealth can be considered evil in the context of interest rates, but it's more the system that is evil. Sure, you can be blamed for falling to the temptation. But do really want to?

>>50522247
There's a specific Floo network. You can't just go anywhere, it has to be connected, and in particular Muggle homes are off-limits. They mentioned it had to be a special occasion for the Dursley house to get a one-off link.

>>50527259
>humans as they are now

Mortal. And squishy, too.

If you think about it, mortality could be considered the root of all evil.

Without death, there is no basis for fear. Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hatred, hatred to suffering, and suffering to evil - but without the first step, the rest cannot follow.

The old saying goes that death is the wages of sin - but perhaps it is the other way around.

>>50538821
>Without death, there is no basis for fear.
That's where you are wrong, boyo.
You can do a lot of horrible shit that is worse than death for the victim.

>>50538821
>implying anger, hatred, and suffering are bad

>>50520867
found the new /tg/ banner

>>50530794
>>50521602
>>50530794
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJ8DGlVeSTE

>>50538862
>>50538821
Without anger, there would not be determination.
Without hatred, there would not be competition.
Without suffering, there would not be humility.

>>50520560
>Is a desire and search for immortality necessarily evil?
No, but the practical issues about your brain not being set up to store infinite amounts of memory is not a minor one.

>>50520560
Of course not. Just don't bother other people with BBEG-tier shenanigans and it's cool.

>>50541289
Why would you need to store infinite amounts of memory though.