GURPS General /gurpsgen/

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>>50519551
You used the right OP, and the right subject line. What do you think you messed up?

Whats "self doubt" again in GURPS? -10, -15?

>>50519622
I thought there was some pastebin I was supposed to put in the general as well.
Whatever.

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>>50519551
Today was cool; the Grimwyrd folks set in a course with Roderick the Duelmage at the helm (he spent the CP on the skill TL4 Pilot: (Contragravity), everyone got a kick out of that). They decided while the *demonic infused laputa cloud fortress* was moving, they may as well kick the tires and check the basement. Guess what they find? A Shadow Demon roaming the halls, and they look like the creatures from ALIENS. Spikes, tails, hard shells, the works. Boom Boom it goes down, explodes into dust, everyone gets IMMEDIATELY ready to breach and clear a neighboring room....and they find a dottering old elf woman.

Intrigued, they parley, until the topic of the Masters comes up, and BOY HOWDY SHES A TURNED ONE and they banter back and forth about greater powers and disgusting ruinous reality etc etc. Bomrek conversationally wiggle his hands and says "Hey can I have this gold" which defuses things amazingly well, and they abscond...right into more shadow demons. Fight ensues, CRITICALS EVERYWHERE, and we wrap for the day on magical doors.
Good times all around

What is the cheapest way to be able to communicate with an intelligent familiar? Telepathy seems nice but probably out of my "budget".

>>50519551

"How to Make a GURPS General" is in the trove, probably.

>>50519933

Make it capable of speech, or have it pay the points for the ability. "Granted By Familiar" is a -40% IIRC.

>>50519933
Buy it a language you know.

What are you guys' experience with Precognition, did you have to keep reminding your GM that you have it every session to make sure he didn't forget to give you future visions?

>>50519933
Even when limited to a single creature? Giving both you and the familiar Telesend (One person only) is also cheaper than requiring you take bother Telesend and Mind Reading.

I think Special Rapport, while not allowing direct communication, does allow you to read the person's "vibe," which may be enough (e.g. "You can tell Winston is agitated and nervous about something it detects up ahead" works as well as "Boss, there's something freaky ahead, watch out").

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>>50519933
>cheapest way to be able to communicate
share a language

>>50520117
>Precognition
Red flag ability. More GM prepwork, but as a GM, I make sure to always consider it, especially how its powered (deities, magic, esp, etc)

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Alright so I want to make pic related.
I tried using Pyramids 3/34 and 3/86 as well as Spaceships 1 and Spaceships 7 - Divergent and Paranormal Tech.

However I ran into some problems with all of the above.

1. I want to include BOTH building and spaceship statistics. As in, I want the whole thing to be able to move and such, but I also want to have statistics from 3/86 like how many staff does it take to care for it and what rooms are there to help with skills.

2. I couldn't find an engine in spaceships to allow just PURE magical movement. I realize with Spaceships 7 you can get a magical power plant, but I can't find any engine that would represent the thing moving without a jet stream trailing behind it or some kind of mechanical process....

Also, I don't know whether to include the islands as part of the spaceship, but I do know I want only the Castle if I'm using the "What's in a Lair" rules from 3/86

>>50520324
Dawg you sound like youre trying a bit too hard
1. make a concession somewhere. The rules wont satisfy you 100%. allow for wiggle room
2. Write your own engine then that does what you want

99% of what we do as GM's is arbitrary or doesnt matter in the long run, so make a deciscion that matters just to you, and go with it

>>50520324
Oh, I should mention I found the dimensions for it.
I expect the Castle to be about 100 yards from the bottom of the spire to the top floor's ceiling.

It should be about 547 or so yards, length and width at the longest/widest area (about same level as the islands' surfaces)

The islands are most likely 200 yards from the edge to the castle each (meaning that the long spire that pokes into both islands is about 947 yards long)
Islands are then maybe 100(?) yards wide from front to back.

>>50520324
Away form my books at the moment, so no clue if this is 100% accurate.

1. Would making it a two-stage ship work, treating the building as a secondary ship? If not, maybe you can squint at it hard enough and treat the castle as a separate ship permanently in its specialized "hangar."
2. Contragravity *should* cover this. If not, would attaching magical ether sails be out of the question?

>>50520442
I guess but I'd rather go by the rules as best I can.

>>50520493
1. That... could work. Maybe. But the islands aren't exactly part of the ship. I figure the way this was built was making the castle first, and then lifting these two pieces of land out of the ground like they did the castle. Basically, they do use engines to float but they aren't ships themselves.....
And I just realized making them asseperate spaceships actually can work but I'm still unsure about it...

2. I did not see those and I feel stupid. Thanks a ton for pointing them out.

>>50520548
A traditional TL8 two-stage rocket is basically making the actual ship and then lifting it into space with a huge fucking rocket.

And not everything treated as a ship under the system is a full-fledged ship; hell, I remember a Pyramid article where skywhales were statted out as bio-organic spaceships. In your case, the rocks would be nothing but tons of Stone Armor, Contragravity Engine(s; not sure if they can be stacked) and a magical powerplant to represent the spell, and possibly other things like Habitats and Cargo if they're partially hollowed out. The Control Room would probably be located in the castle (the throne room is classic), which is the norm for a two-stage rocket.

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>>50519822

We discovered that they are poisonous in a relatively safe way, with Gray the giant bastard with HT 12 + Fit getting hit and (apparently) suffering no ill effects of the posion.

The group left the crazy old elf in her room with tea and books while they explored. I'm pretty sure she is a dangerous one but this group is surprisingly willing to give just about anyone a chance.

>>50520677
Sounds like I can make that happen. Thanks man.

>>50520721
Doc pointed out tonight that the entirety of the last dozen sessions or so have been the same in game day.
Since opening the gates with dwarf blood...
..and dealing with miss vamp...
..and clearing out all the Derugar...
...and the mind flaters...
AND STEALING THE GIANT SKY FORTRESS

one day.

goddamn

>>50520782
That's it. Move over, crazy elf lady. We are stealing your bed and getting some rack time.

How many levels of Compartmentalized Mind do you need to achieve FTL thought?

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>>50520077
>>50520078
>>50520192
>>50520125

Giving just the familiar Telesend with One Person Only is cheaper then buying off Cannot Speak disadvantage. This means that the communication is one way unless you can speak to the familiar (whom gets, for zero points, a native language, even with Cannot Speak.

>>50523930
This sounds good, so I talk to my cat normally but only I can hear the response. So I look a bit weird and may get burned as a witch, sweet, I like it!

Telesend with only one person is 6 points?

Optional Mindlink would be 3 more and Special Rapport would be 5, though it is the only one both would have to pay for.

This correct?

>>50523922
That question is incoherent. Minds are not spacial entities, and neither are thoughts. Therefore they can not be FTL, because speed is a property that only exists within space.

>>50524675
They do exist within space - your brain. You stop thinking if your brain dies.

>>50523922
Arbitrary amount. You mostly just need ETS and Intuitive Mathematician.

Another familiar question:

If I want him capable of teaching me spells, he would have to know the spells already, just doesn't need Magery, correct?

Does he need them at a certain level?

Instead of buying individual skills, could he just have a 'spells only' Modular slot, that way he could teach me any spell the GM will give?

Do skills need to be a certain level to teach?

>>50524675

Well, I don't quite agree there, as obviously they have a spatial component - but it's certainly an incoherent question, and the pattern is somewhat more important than the physical construction.

>>50523922

What do you mean by this? If you mean a mind that can receive a answer before it begins the question, then any kind of precognition will do. If you want a mind that moves so fast time appears to be stopped, then that's quite cheap because much of it is only useful in the metagame - ETS.

Adding Visualisation with Reliable and making it reflexive or just very fast, could also represent having all the time in the world to consider a problem.

Any cosmically instantaneous teleportation or scrying will give you an FTL mind, though you'd need a space opera game to really get the most out of it.

>>50525329
He needs to know the spells to teach them and can't teach you more than he knows.

I would allow a perk to know and teach spells with out being able to cast them.

I need some help with a concept, both fluff and crunch. I know pretty much anything is possible with GURPS, just not managing to get it to work.

The idea is a young apprentice to an old wizard. He had other ones before and they all turned into power hungry, amoral assholes to varying degrees. He thought little of it until, as an old man, he tried to get them together for a charity work and they all turned him down. He blamed himself so decided to have one more apprentice that wasn't a shit (the PC).

To make it more interesting, in death the old wizard bequeathed *something* to the young apprentice, something the other former apprentice desire (Enemies).

Originally I wanted this thing to be like a magic book of secrets I could use to learn spells from later, but have no idea how to work that mechanically.

Could be a smart crystal ball or medallion (Ally?) that can teach stuff.

Finally it could just be a dumb item with like +IQ (only for spells) or something (Gadget). But would the Enemies then be the medallion's and not the PC's? Not sure how to do that

>>50526280
At the end of the day, the book is a justification for how you spend your points. If your GM doesn't super care about training speed or cost (and many don't) and generally lets people buy what they want if they've got the points, the book is worth, at most, 5 points as an Unusual Background (Can learn certain spells without a tutor), and is probably worth no more than a perk. Even if training and tutorship is a big deal and you actually plan on using the book to learn in the GURPS sense (200 hours = 1 extra character point), mechanically it's no different from picking up a mundane textbook and using the self-study rules to learn a mundane skill, so really it's still a UB, albeit probably a more expensive one (~15?).

>>50526420
That is an interesting interpretation of it, one I never considered. My GM is very RAW-abiding, so will have to double check if I go that route.

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We're playing a kamen rider/super hero campaign and I was wondering what sort of advantages would allow me to do something in particular.

In Kamen Rider, it's typical for the main character to slip out of a group when a monster attacks, so that he can hide and change into his superhero alter ego. When he comes back, nobody realizes that he was gone exactly the same amount of time when the hero appeared to fight the monster. So, my question is, what advantage would allow me to slip out of combat and make people be cartoonishly oblivious of my disappearance?

>>50527448
>We're playing a kamen rider/super hero campaign
So it's campaign feature, not individual advantage.
And most it worth a perk.

>>50520442
>Dawg you sound like youre trying a bit too hard
That should be the point of gurps, allow people to try a bit too hard..
if gurps fail at this it fail at its core thing

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>>50526280
>>50525329

You could mix these two ideas together.

A familiar that has a summonable ally in the form of a book with barely enough DX and ST to turn it's own pages, but with Signature Gear enough to pay for a comprehensive spellbook for the setting.

One way sympathy, so that damaging the familiar damages the book. Now your magic friend can summon/unsummon your spellbook that lets you learn new magic and becomes a target for your foes for kidnapping.

Should we change gurpsgen to /gg/

>>50529891
No.

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>>50525329
Technically to know spells you need to be able to cast them under some circumstances, but that can include High Manna zones that allow people without Margery to cast.

I love vanilla Magic!

>>50529891
>immigrants go home
You haven't lived here long enough to change the name of the gurps general.

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>>50535203
Speaking of that..

I'm thinking of allowing unrestricted Magery 0, but after that up to Magery 4 you have to take One Collage Only in order to encourage mages to be specialist, and to have a more broad set of skills.

Is there any school I should watch out for?

How does your GM award character points at the end of the session? I'd like some sort of objective system, that rewards positive player interaction and participation. Using a system like Dungeon World/Torchbearer, where there is a set of conditions that grant rewards at the end of the session for each player who met them, I'm tossing around this:

"Each player may earn up to 5 character points per session. Ask these questions at the end of the session. For each question, each player who answers 'Yes' and justify their answer to the table gains one character point:
Did you (as a player) participate and make this session a positive experience for everyone at the table?
Did one of your advantages or perks benefit an ally in a particularly interesting or unexpected way?
Did one of your disadvantages or quirks force your character to make a non-optimal choice or put the party in a tight spot?
Did you learn something new and interesting about the world?
Did you make a noticeable change or impression on the world?"

Thoughts?

>>50537843
I just dump whatever points on them that feels right. Could be none, one, or twenty-five. I found questionairres too cumbersome, personally, but they might work for you. It really depends on the game and the power level you're working with.

As an example, one time I awarded players 25 points for a session after an end of an adventure, which was in addition to the small amount of points I gave them each session. They had plenty of downtime, so it was reasonable for them to make a big purchase, or invest in a lot of smaller things. Another time, I gave players 20~40 points when they had their second trigger events, and barely any in-between unless they were getting critical successes or failures, or dedicated enough time to learning skills.

>>50537843
I do it like this.

One point to all players involved in doing something Big and Important. If it is REALLLY big and important, like the end of a big mission, quest, or task, they might get two.
One point for showing up.
One point for good roleplay individually for the good roleplayers.
One point if something happens that is especially cool, to the player or players who did that cool thing of their own volition.

That's usually it.

>>50537843
Tbh that seems like you're trying to make it like a school assignment or something which can really turn off players.

Just award points as you see fit. 5 being the norm, 2 for low participation, and 7 for very good participation. Something like that.

So I'm a relatively new GURPS GM and I have a player who I just can't seem to kill. He has 14 HT and 20 max HP along with the High Pain Threshold advantage. So this makes it so that he doesn't incur shock and when he does have to make a HT roll say to avoid falling unconscious when he's in negative HP or to avoid death, he has a very slim chance of failure (95% chance of success even when he is at a full negative HP multiple, it would seem). So basically if I want to do anything to his character I have to full on kill him by getting him to a full -100 HP (120 damage total). KO'ing him is pretty much impossible.

So are we doing something wrong? I always hear how lethal GURPS is supposed to be, but this is a ~50 point combo that apparently made him indestructible.

>>50538626
I should also note that he has Fit, which gives a +1 to the rolls to avoid falling unconscious or dying

>>50538626
HP is supposed to be constrained to ± 30% ST in a realistic campaign, which would means his ST would have to be 16. That bumps the combo up from ~50 points to ~110 points.
I'm a new GURPS GM myself, so I don't know if your missing anything else, but this is just something I noticed.

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>>50538626
>>50538660


It's not indestructible, but that's extremely tough and not just a 50 point combo, given he's at 45 points just for 14 HT and Fit.

Then 20HP. This means, if you are using the normal rules, that he has at least 15 ST and +5 HP, or another 60 points invested. Up to 105, though if he took Giantism that could be down to 99 points.

For that many points sunk into toughness a person should be hard to stop.

Keep in mind that, unless he regenerates, he's going to need to spend a long, long time recovering after a fight, getting back 2 HP per day can mean he needs to spend a month healing after a hard brawl.

Even if they can't make him pass out his foes might be able to disable a limb, effectively taking him out of the fight with a disabled leg or simply avoid him and defeat or capture people he's trying to protect. If he can be grappled down and pinned he can also be forcefully restrained with handcuffs.

>>50538626
have something do locational damage to either his hands or his head. The locational damage if high enough should sever his hands or do x4 damage to his skull. Even with high pain threshold, he'd be useless without hands, which would make killing him a little easier.

>>50538626
What tech level is the game? 120 HP sounds like a lot, Your average TL 7 rifle does between 5d and 7d (17.5-24.5 damage on average), and you can get multiple hits per attack.

A TL 2 18" scorpion (a ballista that fires bolts instead of stone) does 2d+1 impaling damage. After wounding modifiers are applied, assuming an unarmed target, that is 4d+2 damage, or an average of 16 damage per hit. A few of those would take him out as well.

A score of 14 is listed as exceptional for a reason. He should be hard to kill.

>>50538626
Do you have his full sheet? It would help a lot to see what he is doing and where he spent his points.
The other option is put him in situations where being a living brick is not useful. Such as a social setting, as long as you keep periods where his flaws actually come out it will go a long ways to making him more 'balanced' in terms of play.

>>50539152
I forgot, that is the damage for one of the scorpions from Low Tech. THe scorpion from the basic set does 5d impaling damage. A hit on an unarmored target does 10d damage, or an average of 35. A shot to the vitals does 15d (52.5 average), while a shot to the skull does 20d (70 damage average).

Armor would reduce that, however. You get a big, tough target you use a big, strong weapon.

>>50539018
>>50539111
>>50539146
>>50539152
>>50539212
Ok so here's the scoop. Neither of us knew about the ST constraints, so he's technically illegal there considering his ST is only 12, but I'm going to let it slide since there is only one session left in the game and he's supposed to be an action hero anyway.
I know about the limb thing and its something i discussed with him. In the last fight (which is where I discovered his durability), he fought a guy with two swords who got 4 attacks every round and crit A LOT. he asked why i didnt target his arms after because i would have had them both dismembered within 2 rounds and the answer is simply that his character is the hero of the story and cutting off his limbs would have ruined the vibe.
social situations do hurt him when he gets into them. there have been numerous situations where he's had to just bumble his way into the next plot point because his character is an autist who can't extract information from people or a situation if his life depends on it (and it has).
Also, the TL is TL7-8. The setting is that of a blaxploitation/kung fu movie in post vietnam !LA. Its ostensibly the 70's but there are some 80s era anachronisms thrown in here and there.

>>50539268
Oh also, it was a 90-something point investment, not 50. When I originally asked him what was going on with his durability, he made it sound like it was just because of his HT and High Pain Threshold (which totaled to ~50 points).
Now that I know that, it seems more reasonable that he's this hard to kill (though his level of HP is apparently still illegal).

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>>50539268
Keep in mind to take a limb off someone would have to hit him for 21 damage, so short of true monsters with huge blades that simply isn't going to happen.

11 damage can disable a limb, but it's going to be temporary.

For a heroic game, this isn't too huge a problem. He's got about thirty seconds of activity before he is likely to pass out at negative HP.

>>50539268
HP over 30% of ST isn't illegal, so to speak, it's simply not realistic. This is completely inconsequential to an action hero, since cinematic assumptions are in play, so don't sweat it.

>his character is the hero of the story and cutting off his limbs would have ruined the vibe.
This is true and not an awful way to handle character fragility, but paradoxically it's one of the easiest ways to endanger the unstoppable man. Since you're into this action hero vibe, introduce a few campaign options, like so:
>Reintroduce limb hazards and general bodily harm that isn't straight Cr damage to the Torso, but damage that is enough to destroy or sever a body part is ignored, simply ruling that it is crippled. The immediate effect is very similar, but not permanent. A similar option can be employed to make crippled limbs heal significantly faster so as to get your action hero back in the game quicker.
Personally, some action movies I've liked don't ignore crippled limbs and play them as a way for the main character to fight through or think outside the box, but it is my taste.
>Give his character Luck, or employ options from Impulse Buys, then turn up the difficulty up, way up. Power-Ups: Quirks has an interesting quirk that has a character that needs glasses to only be affected by their loss or breakage for one (significant) action, then they carry on as if they didn't need them. You can extrapolate this into a pool of 'meat points' or permanent/temporary point-value reduction that work similarly on crippled limbs.

Generally speaking, make consequences more immediate and dire, but with no/little permanent effect. It will put the fear of harm back into the player's mind, with the assurance that what doesn't kill him, won't necessarily make him lamer

>>50539442
Well like I said the adversary got 4 attacks every round so he could have easily targeted an arm for each of those an done 21 damage in a turn which i would rule is good enough to call it hacked off.

>>50539467
For this particular campaign I've been largely ignoring the idea of taking the character out of commission. It is a short (4 session) story heavy number and having the main character (it is a 1 player game, there isn't a whole party) have to sit out a week because his arms are broken would ruin it. Bad guys would have to inexplicably pause their schemes or other wise keep them going in which case the hero would fail to stop them.
I'm mainly worried about the implications of this moving forward as this was just a test for GURPS. I plan to run some future games in homebrew setting in GURPS but if lethality is as much of an issue as it seemed to be (which im now convinced it isnt), I would have to find a new system.

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>>50539593
That's not the RAW though. You would need to deal that damage in a single attack, not a single round, in order to cut off the limb. An optional rule would have limbs disabled by accumulated damage, but lopping off takes one big hit.

>>50539653
I know; it would be a houserule. The way i figure, if 21 damage in 1 attack will do it then 21+ damage over the course of 4 quick attacks in less than 1 second in the same spot should do the trick too.

>>50539632
GURPS is highly lethal, but characters that put 100+ points into 'tank damage' are very hard to kill.

Even then, at TL 8 two men might wrestle him to the ground, handcuff his wrist behind him then empty a handgun into his head or throw him in a river. Either would almost certainly kill him.

>>50539653
>>50539746
Instead of a single clean cut lopping it off, it would be several chops hacking it off sloppily.

>>50539751
Are there rules for two dudes manhandling one person at the same time, like an aid another type deal on a wrestling roll? Or would it just be one roll for each guy with no bonuses

>>50539766
The latter, but keep in mind that having one guy grappling your left arm, one guy grappling your right and a third grabbing your torso for a take-down maneuver puts you in Fucked Land.

>>50539632

>but if lethality is as much of an issue as it seemed to be (which im now convinced it isnt)
GURPS has a few default assumptions, and it's good that you've realized that it's easy to subvert them (or reinforce them for a grittier feel), the game encourages this, what with modular rules, campaign options and the division between 'cinematic' and 'realistic'. The 'Generic' in the game's name should encourage it's players to make it fit their narrative or genre and not have to be locked into some default narrative that stifles their creativity.

>>50539843
yeah i think if i were going for a more realistic setting i would definitely lower the chargen point allotment and maybe disallow a build like this if someone tried it (though theyd have to spend so many of their points i doubt theyd want to). i do think it is appropriate for this particular campaign though.

GURPS's genericism and modularity are what have attracted me to it lately. I've always felt that more specialized games are better- for example if i wanted to run a Conan game i'd want to run it in a system build to run Conan games- but I think I've changed my mind for some cases. In any case where the setting is homebrewed (which is all I run), i think that a system that allows and even encourages heavy modding and hacking is good because it lets you do (close to) exactly what you want.

Is it okay to shill my blog here if I write campaign reports and mechanical/character analyses?

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>>50539833
If you can't free your dominate arm to fight back you are in a pretty bad place. You need to throw off everyone grappling you before you can stand up* if you get taken down, and the guy grappling your torso is going to spend every turn trying to Take Down, then to Pin if he manages to put you on the floor.

Trying to free yourself with one hand sucks. Trying to throw someone off with no hands sucks more.

*Exception: If you have twice someone's ST you can stand up while they grapple you.

>>50539903
Please do.

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>>50539889
I've tried lots of specialized games, and I've got to say NOTHING does sword and sorcery better then GURPS. There's no place better to do a Hybroian adventure.

>>50539756
>>50539746
Its not even a house rule its right in B. 420 under "Optional Rules for Injury" rtfm

>>50539913
http://grimaldicascade.blogspot.com/2016/12/titans-of-tabletop-building-titanfall.html?m=1

Just wrote a long post about adapting Titanfall pilots into GURPS; I've got a campaign running for 1980s mecha to occasionally post about as well. Plus continuing the Titanfall ports, plus whatever strikes my fancy to do, plus any campaigns I run down the line. No schedule, just when I want to write/have time.

>>50520721
Friend, who are you and why do you post these?

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>>50539970
I like your writing style, thank you for sharing.

>>50539593

4 attacks in one round is a lot. All Out Rapid + Extra Attack + Extra Attack (Multiattack?)

>>50540288
No problem. Another reader caught a few phrasing errors I'll fix tomorrow. Numbers are valid, just wording in some of my explanations.

Thanks.

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>>50520442
This is most solid advice that has helped me GM.

>>50520500
This is what I did and many many potential campaigns died because of this.

What are some good ways of making attack rolls a little less guaranteed?
A PC with 16 in a melee weapon skill will roll successes 98% of the time on a basic torso attack. Sure, a good chunk of those will be blocked, dodged, or parried; but having only a 2% shot of failing the roll makes it pretty dull.

Is there a table somewhere of common situational modifiers I could use to make combat a little more varied?

>>50536660
I am a personal fan of more restricted magic, the "generalist wizard" from D&D being one of my least favorite things and why I don't care for basic GURPS magic.

Limiting it to a school seems like a good compromise but so many spells have prerequisites from other schools... I guess it's OK, but never sat well with me, so I always balked at it from a GM perspective.

>>50540650
Basic, page 547 gives several modifiers. Penalties for light level, bad footing, being distracted, and so on.

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>>50540650
Sure, Page 547 of the Basic Set has a set of modfiers to be aware of. Big ones include..

Bad Footing (-2 or more, GM's option)

Holding a Large Shield (-2, Everyone forgets about this)

Shock (- damage taken last round)

Shield in Close Combat (- Shield's DB if someone is in your hex)

Striking into Close Combat (-2, includes if two people are grappling and you want to hit one)

Visibility (-1 to -9)

Other then that? If you have SL 16 after mods it's often a good idea to use Deceptive Attack to give yourself -2 to Hit and the target -1 to Defend.

>>50539268
IMHO, you guys aren't doing anything "wrong". He's paid the points to be that tough, so let him. And if he's hopeless in social encounters, and you (and he) play into that downside, then that's good play.
Are you both having fun with the character? If you are, then you're playing the game right. That's really all there is to it.

>>50537843

Honestly I think that's a pretty unpleasant way of doing it, that encourages checking off specific actions and being semi-lolrandom with your traits in order to get points.

Particularly the non-optimal choice part. You already got the points for the disadvantage, so directly rewarding players who choose to fuck things up rather than play their character appropriately just looks like it's asking for irritation. It would also cast doubt on the player's reasons for doing anything.

As >>50538525 said, it's not a homework assignment, and it will *never* be objective.

>>50538626

Nets, tasers and drugs will still fuck him up.

>>50540650
Beyond modifiers, you can also improve the opposition's defenses. Someone with Dodge 13 is literally as unhittable if they retreat, making use of deceptive attacks, runaround attacks, side/backhexes, positional modifiers, multiple attacks, etc, etc, etc, mandatory to even have a chance of getting a hit in. If your players have reached the 'impossible to miss' territory, I think it's the best way to make combat interesting again by forcing them to make use of all the options available.

Are there GURPS books or resources where they basically spend the majority of your character points already to make character classes? Me and my player do not like point buy.

>>50542619
Those are called Templates, and yeah they're fairly common. If you're looking for a bunch of templates of the same point value, check the various series. Dungeon Fantasy has D&D class templates, Action has movie archetype templates, Monster Hunters has some high-power templates so they can hunt vampires and survive, and After the End has low-power ones as appropriate for PCs struggling to survive post-apoc scenarios.

There's also a thread on the official forum that lists the location of every published template.

>>50542688
Will do. Thanks anon

Do I get both campaigns and characters books to start off home brewing my own stuff, or should I just get the pdf's?

>>50542997
The PDFs for the basic set (Characters and Campaigns) are all you should need.

>>50542025
>HT 14
>Tasers as drugs being reliable
Pick one and only one.

>>50542014
I'm trying to reward players by making their disadvantages impact the game.

I don't memorize every single character sheet nor do I have the entire list of disadvantages memorized. If someone in game is win favor with a local nobility by putting on their smooth moves, I won't stop them and ask "Wait, isn't your character a Killjoy? Wouldn't he have trouble charming Princess Buttercup? And isn't your character Hideous, wouldn't the nobles be revolted at the sight of you?"

I'd prefer if the player brings that up themselves, either through role-playing, altering their character's course of action, or attempting a roll with a penalty. All three of those, in my mind, could satisfy the condition of "non-optimal choice or putting the party in a tight spot," though the wording on that is a little clumsy.

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>>50546475
>Tasers
It's HT-3(0.5) anon.
If he's in a tshirt, hes getting fucked over at rolls vs 12. Especially if you KEEP TAZING HIM

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>>50546630
>I'd prefer if the player brings that up themselves
Oh if we were only all so blessed.

>>50548169
I try to play my flaws , and make them part of the character.

How would you handle a disadvantage coming into effect only after you've done an action, like a curse after breaking a taboo? I was thinking Mitigator, but that requires you to do something to stave off the disadvantage, not avoid doing something. Accessibility seemed right, except that Accessibility is reversible; the disadvantage goes away after the condition is one again met.

I have a feeling this has an exceedingly obvious solution, but I'm away from my books at the moment.

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Hey everyone,

I've been into playing rpgs for a few years now, but I've only been able to play various editions of D&d with my friends, family and colleagues. I really want to try another system, but don't know where to get started. GURPS seems interesting.

Which edition of GURPS should I start with? Is there a "best" edition?

I know that GURPS was designed with ubiquity in mind, but does it work better in a particular type of setting?

>>50546630
>I'm trying to reward players by making their disadvantages impact the game.

There's nothing wrong with that - but the default is that the disadvantages give the rewards upfront, and then they impact the game. General roleplaying rewards implicitly include roleplaying disadvantages and advantages, without mandating that characters must bring one up every session.

What happens to the person who plays a berserker, but wants narrative control of it so doesn't take Berserk?

>>50550938
Newest edition is best edition. I have heard a few people who prefer 3rd over 4th, but you can translate a lot of 3rds material into 4th if you need it anyways.

People will say it works best for modern shooting and such, but I have not found it unable to perform very well in my medieval fantasy games and I feel it makes even typical "D&D" stuff more enjoyable with a melee combat system offering tons of options even for those who have not picked any specific combat skill.

>>50550938
>Which edition of GURPS should I start with? Is there a "best" edition?
GURPS is iterative, the latest edition is the best one there is, and that would be 4e.

>I know that GURPS was designed with ubiquity in mind, but does it work better in a particular type of setting?
I hear GURPS get praised for it's work with realistic tacticool shootouts left and right, but I'm quite the fan for it's medieval melee simulation.

If you want a quick read to get started, there's GURPS Lite

>>50550938

>Which edition of GURPS should I start with? Is there a "best" edition?

Fourth. Unlike D&D, the GURPS editions were iterative improvements, not bottom-up rewrites. Fourth edition is the most integrated, streamlined and easy to pick up version. There are some third edition books you might want to read, since a lot of the setting books weren't converted over, e.g. GURPS Aztecs. But mechanically, stick to fourth.

>I know that GURPS was designed with ubiquity in mind, but does it work better in a particular type of setting?

GURPS is designed by default for "heroic realism". That's where it's easiest to work it. But you can do anything running the gamut from superhero fiction where people are hurt only by their costumes getting messed up, to gritty operators getting shot in the gut and slowly bleeding out over several hours. It's all done with optional rules.

The main genre people recommend GURPS for is modern-day military campaigns. If you want an RPG for operators operating operationally, GURPS is the best on the market... mostly because there aren't many systems that try to do it. (Those that are are usually d20-based... and that never works). It also works extremely well for modern supernatural games.

>>50550938
GURPS is not like D&D; every new edition is a refinement of the previous one, not an entirely new system with the same name and cosmetic similarities. 4e, the most recent edition, is definitely the one you should use.

GURPS is one of the better systems out there for modern-day operators operating operationally, though admittedly there are few serious contenders for that title and I love low-tech fights in GURPS. I personally find that the system leans towards gritty settings (low/dark fantasy vs. high fantasy, street-level supers vs. four-color comics supers, grimy cyberpunk vs. space opera, etc.), but the system is more than capable of handling grandiose cinematic settings too.

Speaking of which, seeing as you (and likely your group) are recent migrants from D&Dland, I would definitely take a look at the Dungeon Fantasy series. It's essentially GURPS: AD&D and a great example of a more fast-paced rule-of-cool fuck-realism approach to GURPS campaigns. It's both familiar starting territory and not overly rules-intensive.

>>50550938
>Which edition of GURPS should I start with? Is there a "best" edition?

Yes - the most recent. Each edition is an improvement and refinement of the last, so there's nothing the 3.5->4e disaster.

>I know that GURPS was designed with ubiquity in mind, but does it work better in a particular type of setting?

It starts with "cinematic realism", so it's easiest/best used for that kind of game - whether it's Conan or Supernatural Weapons and Tactics.

It *can* do pretty much anything, but the weirder or more stylised you go, the more rules tweaking is required - it's a toolbox system - and a few genres, like high-powered supers, need a lot of GM guidance.

So it can be more work than digging up some obscure RPG title that more-or-less has the same theme you want, but those games tend to truly shitty mechanics, so I personally find the effort rewarding.

>>50551082
>>50551077
>>50551023
>>50550990
On one hand, it's nice that everyone seems to be on the same page.
On the other hand, fuck we sound like a homogeneous robotic legion.

>>50550990
>>50551023
>>50551077
>>50551082
>>50551088

...I'd say we've got our catechism down pretty well.

>>50551105
I'd rather have that than the D&D edition wars.

>>50551105
But Anon, Robots are Unliving, not Homogeneous.

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THE HIVEMIND GROWS

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>>50540667
Well the advantage of allowing Magery 0 unrestricted means that any spells that don't require magery 1+ are fair game, opening up most prerequisites. Beyond that, allowing people to learn spells they can't cast in order to meet prerequisites was how I was thinking of doing it.

Sure, you might not be able to cast the spell, but you understand it's theoretical underpinnings.

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>>50550938
This guy again

Holy shit, everyone responding quickly and giving helpful advice? Where am I?

Thanks guys! I appreciate it. I'm grabbing a few books for 4th from the PDF and will take a better look at them later tonight when I have time.

Good to hear gunplay in gurps is good, since a few things I've wanted to try at the table rely on it.

How to High Fantasy systems fare? Does GURPS have vancian magic?

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>>50546630
You might like this rule.

>>50551494
High fantasy can be hella fun with the right rules in effect and character options available. True mythic fantasy is hard to do in standard GURPS without a heavy dose of handwavium, but high fantasy is quite doable. GURPS: Thaumatology is essentially Alternate Magic Systems: The Book; it's got and absolute ton, and one of those is indeed Vance-inspired.

We really do pride ourselves on being one of the nicer generals, though that's probably mostly because anons remember when it was impossible to have a GURPS thread without it being shit on at the drop of a hat and/or prospective GURPSfags are so rare that we don't want to scare off any newbies.

>>50551683
I like the approach that Pointless GURPS takes to disadvantages; they're (translated back to standard GURPS) -10 point vague disadvantage packages that act like negative-only FATE aspects; GMs evoke a disadvantage and in return give you extra points to spend on impulse buys.

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Anyone have the WWII: Frozen Hell pdf? In honor of the Finnish independence day I've been thinking of running a winter war campaign

>>50552268
Nevermind, found a link

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>>50551494
GURPS can do Vancian magic if you really want to, though it has lots of other options for high fantasy.

For general high fantasy, I'd say it does it very well in the form of Dungeon Fantasy or just with the core set. I prefer low magic, lord of the rings or Robert Howard style games, but high fantasy works just fine too.

If you have trouble with a game idea just come here and ask, GURPSGEN is typically pretty happy to help.

>>50553604
I don't have specific preference, Vancian is just what I'm used to...

I'm much more interested in seeing how a nonvancian system is set up. I've always wanted to have magic be more freeform and mysterious, even among those using it. I understand that there is a need for gamebalancing, but with codifying magic comes the death of any and all mystery of how it works.

>>50555343
There are a lot of different magic systems in GURPS, though I have a feeling that one of Symbol/Syntactic Magic, Ritual Path Magic, or Sorcery will tickle your fancy the most. Check the OP for my old magic system comparison opiniondump; some of the info's a little old and I've changed my mind a bit on some things, but it's still a good starting point.

>>50555565
I'll look into them, thanks!

>>50527868
No GURPS is there to allow any situation to be simulated. Not make basic settings into a rules heavy slog. For a low-tech adventure you'd never calculate the health and DR of the Earth. You just assume that if something was powerful enough to destroy the Earth, it destroys the Earth.

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>>50555343
GURPS allows a lot of this. Even within Basic Set magic you can have lost and obscure spells that players can discover in play, laws of magic they might not know and dangerous, alien kinds of magic that might not be usable by their race at all.

Longtime Herofag here. I've been curious about GURPS for years. Both games are 3d6-based generic systems but can anyone here please tell me how GURPS compares to Hero? What does it do well? What should I watch out for?

How would I go about allowing robots to use magic?
Am I missing some kind of feature or can anyone use it, rulebooks wise?

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>>50557718
Depends on what kind of magic you want to use.

Machine meta-trait makes any magic that normally draws from FP very hard to use, as the Machine trait means you don't have FP. In many cases you can instead use HP or energy points from Powerstones, or drawn from Sacrifices or something.

Otherwise, if you say it's okay there is no reason a machine can't use magic, though nobody would fault you for saying they can't in your game.

>>50557497

There is a lot of similarities there. I find that HERO is a bit looser and things scale up a bit more smoothly. The only one where I'd reach for HERO first is if I was going to do a superhero game though.

>>50557718

By default, beings with the Machine Meta-Trait cannot spend nor lose Fatigue Points (seeing as how they do not possess them in the first place). As a result, you will have to purchase an Energry Reserve for your robot and define it as "Magic only" if you wish for it/them to be able to cast spells that require an expenditure of magic-compatible fuel.

Information on the Energy Reserve Advantage can be found in GURPS Powers, GURPS Thaumatology and GURPS Horror.

So I like the basic mechanics and character options, but I really hate the combat the times I've played (and the one time I ran it). Is there a way to basically run it closer to a narrative style beside just making it up as I go along? I'd be fine that way but I'm not sure I could sell it to my group if I phrase it that way.

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>>50558514

To play narrative just have players describe what they want to do on their turn, then roll dice for the action.

Try to keep the actions brief, to about one second, but don't worry too much. Keep range bands to "in melee", "short range where you can shoot people at -2 and run to them in a second", ect.

>>50558514
How to Be a GURPS GM, pg. 41, is the start of the combat chapter. It has a list of options for the lightest combat. I'm not sure how much more you could trim from the lite combat at the end of Characters, though.

>>50559098
>How to Be a GURPS GM
Not that other guy, but how would one go about procuring said book?

>>50559112
>>50559098
Nevermind, I'm blind.

To anyone who has used the alternate bleeding rules (http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/Roleplayer/Roleplayer9/Bleeding_Damage.html) is it feasible to make, say, taking up to 2x one's HP in damage just knocks the character out and does bleeding damage as normal (and, of course, they can't call for help, heal themself, etc)? Do you also think it would be feasible to set a duration of something like a day of care for every 5 points of damage taken (assuming High TL8~ Low TL9) ?

Also, how do you think one would go about with the durability of actual machines? I understand that they use regular rules for health, but find that it very poorly represents how a machine would actually react - damage dealt to it either being ineffective (hits some metal, maybe chunks a coolant tank that'll cause it to die in an hour), disabling (severing joint motors, breaking core computing systems), or fatal (blasting the battery and causing it to explode). Is there any system that attempts to represent this, or am I just being autistic?

Got a question, /gurpsgen/

Are the combat cards any good for newer groups? We're all pretty new to GURPS so our combat devolves into attack-attack-attack and dodge-dodge-dodge until one side dies. So I'm looking to solve that.

If they do help, are there any cards for the Martial Arts options somewhere?

>>50559139
You know those rules are from 1988, right? Basic Set already has rules for all of this. I know you said "alternate," but... why do you want to use these instead of what's in Basic?

>>50559155
Handy references are always good for gamers, old and new alike. If you want to switch up combat, try including opponents that use maneuvers and tactics that force the PCs to adapt. Grappling, terrain advantage, superior reach, and disarming are all good ones to exploit.

As for MA cards, I don't know of any. Doesn't mean there aren't any, as I haven't looked for them.

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>>50559155
Here's the combat cards for basic set options (and not all of them), otherwise I'd suggest printing out the combat cheat sheet and handing players that.

>>50559194
The bleeding rules in the Basic Set have your character bleed HP, rather than HT. So when you want a situation like, say, someone getting swiss cheese'd by an SMG and getting thrown in the hospital for three months, the HT bleed is optimal, since they can still get sorely fucked up well past their HP value without actually dying.

>>50559194
>The bleeding rules in the Basic Set have your character bleed HP, rather than HT.
Oh, yeah, and that's the only difference. All the other rules are the same.

>>50557929
Robot-golem-warforged casters studded with power stones to fuel spells is an interesting concept

>>50557718

In Technomancer, nuclear reactors create magical energy - so a robot with a nuclear manacore is plausible (though they'd use golems with robot parts).

You could say that FP for robots takes the form of accumulating system errors, which gradually slows performance.

Monster Hunters 5 has a technomancy RPM variant where casters use computers that spam magical incantations - and as energy gathering doesn't need to draw on the caster's personal FP, there isn't anything stopping an intelligent computer being the actual technomancer.

>>50558514
You might like the advice given in Action 2: Exploits, under the sections on chases and combat. Basically, it nails things down as "a character's turn is enough time to do something cool". So this might mean a full Aim and ranged Attack maneuver at once for one character, while another character might sneak up on an enemy and stab them in the heart from behind, while a third might hack through several firewalls and disarm the alarm system.

>>50555343
I have found that a combo of the standard skill-magic spell system with unlimited mana

http://www.sjgames.com/pyramid/sample.html?id=933

with expanded tables and "high magic" that can only be discovered in play and is more plot based (if that makes sense) and random is a very effective system.

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>>50559309
Just assuming basic set and thaumatology, I see some hilarious complications where a robot with Magery can't spend FP, so he starts to sacrifice to power the spells. And this itself is representative of the culture that develops around robocasters. Mechanical districts are stripped of living things, spent to fuel enchantments. This, in turn ,spins out of control and devolves into the state of tension between men and machines: living blood is required to power mechanical enchantments, and the machines see man as the perfect cog for their machinations.

Reign of steel; Sorcery edition

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>>50562496
Ah jeez, now I wanna run a game where the players are black not ops types, investigating dark magic in a world where the mechanical men have been born. And the two worlds collide with Android warlocks summoning the dead, augmenting them with machine guns, and sending them against the much more desperate humanity they seek to overtake.

>>50562519
What was that abortive setting penny arcade had some years ago? ExMachina? With the noir robots?

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gonna bump

>>50562496
I like that. Robots that feed off life to fuel their magic.

>>50562496
I am shamed that I never thought of that idea. It is a good one.

Defiler magic casting robots who are seeking life to cast their magics, and perhaps other robots and humanity trying to fight back.

What's the difference between a weapon with a close range (with a C) and a weapon with a range of 1? What about a weapon with both?
I gotta be missing something...

>>50567257

Range C means you have to be inside the *same* hex as your opponent to attack. Reach 1 means you can be one yard away and still attack.

>>50567257
>>50567314
You're also at a cumulative -4 for each yard the target is closer to you than the weapon's current reach. Striking at someone into someone in the same hex as you with a reach 2 weapon is a -8, for example.

>>50567314
>>50567697
Make sense, thanks!

I love Ultra-Tech!

>>50539934
my nig GURPS is a massive game and I've only been playing it for less than a month I can't be expected to know every corner of the books

thanks for finding that though

>>50540288
almost. he used the dual weapon strike technique not rapid strike.

>>50541900
yeah that's how it goes. we're both pretty inexperienced so i wanted to make sure via you more experienced guys that we weren't actually doing something wrong.

>>50548146
shiiiet i didn't even think of that. might have to use it in the next session

>>50567314
Close Combat has a lot of messed up rules that change how things work, making stuff like shields nonfictional and give a penalty.

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GURPS casual here, what books should I look into if I want to run a transforming heroes game along the lines of Super Sentai or Precure?

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>>50574079
You could do this with just the Basic Set for 4th Edition, but might also like to add the Powers book and Martial Arts.

Use some optional rules to reflect the less lethal and more heroic nature of the story, and ask for help if you have trouble making transforming heroes, it's kinda tricky.

>>50574079
Use Alternate Form from Basic Set with a loose reading of "racial template." Powers is always a nice addition, and Action 1-3 have a lot of rules/options/GM tricks for more cinematic, less realistic games.

What are the pros and cons of different low tech melee weapons? How bad is unbalanced vs unwieldy?

>>50576924
http://pseudoboo.blogspot.com/2016/07/fundamentals-comparison-of-melee-weapons.html

>>50539111
remember, major wounds to the vitals, groin and face have a -5 penalty to knockdown and stun.

Skull have -10 on major wound knockdown and stun.

Go for the nut and face shots. They make the players wince, aren't as fatal as the skull and vitals.

But yes, HT is overpowered.

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>>50577235
>They (usually) only have a thrusting impaling damage attack
There are 4 rapiers and 1 jian, and only 2 of them don't have edge. How is that "usually"? And then you proceed to praise saber which is basically light edged rapier with minor weight difference. Stop bullying my rapieru, you baka

>>50577433
Gomen, ;-; I just wrote that to give a baseline, and hoped that people would correct any gross misstatements.

>>50569889
Hello, David.

>>50569889
>>50577866
>No catgirl sexytime

I think you are mistaken.

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>>50579023
>play Reign of Steel
>clone millions of catgirls for the resistance.
>control them by promises of catnip

David would be proud.

>>50579111
What's the biomass dawg? This some kind of spontaneous growth?

>>50579377
>not skimming the atmosphere of gas giants for organic compounds.

Step it up, spacer.

>>50579421
In Rein of steel? I assumed that was the post cyborg uprising apocalypse setting!

But do tell about gengineering space dust into biogel! I am intrigued

>>50579377
>>50579421
>>50579440
Robots do not have space stuff past Luna.

Party started in UK, got into orbit, then did a one way trip to Ceres and went all space exploration while trying to hide in space.

They converted the water and other basic compounds into boimass. And then started project kitten.

They allied with the Luna Mainframe so all this was just "Luna being Luna" till the kitties were deorbited.

>>50576924

Unbalanced is manageable if you don't need to parry with it. This usually means having a main-gauche or shield in you other hand.

Unready after an attack sucks hard. The only weapon I'd really recommend which has it is the Halberd, which has the option of staying ready by thrusting and does a fuckload of damage with huge reach when you swing it.

An axe is a fairly basic weapon, but not a bad one. It does decent damage and weighs enough to break most knives. Low cost makes it easy to carry a spare and your main weapon can be fine for a reasonable price. The drawbacks are limited reach and reliance on off-hand defences. Probably best paired with a rondel dagger or knife-wheel (using main-gauche skill) to allow fencing parries and give you the option of close-combat attacks, although a medium shield could work too. Other axe/mace weapons are either too puny to compete with swords or can't compete with the morningstar.

If you've got the money, the edged rapier is one of the best melee weapons out there. Combine it with a medium shield and careful positioning and you are pretty safe while being able to dish out OK damage at decent reach. Save some cash by using a normal rapier if you never expect to face unliving opponents or get a Jian if you are at TL3.

Morningstars are a good option for low-skill characters who need to face people with serious defences. Couple them either with a shield for blocking or a knife-wheel (I wouldn't recommend anything smaller, unless you can afford to make it very fine to avid breakage) to parry and give close combat attacks.

Quarterstaves and Long Staves are both decent weapons and very cheap. Probably the best choice for 'non combatant' characters who need a reasonable parry with minimum investment. Sw+2 cr damage and good reach aren't too shabby either. Some people suggest using spears with staff skill to give you the option of impaling damage, but the cost is too high in my opinion.

So... I'm gonna need some help. My friend wants to build a touhou character on a 300 pt budget(after flight and disadvantages). What sort of stuff would he want to look for in the basic rulebook, and what advantages would we need to invent.

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>>50577360
With High Pain Threshold and 14 HT even major wounds to the groin or face aren't quite a sure thing (14 HT, -5 for face/groin, +3 for HPT, target 12).

But worse, to get those major wounds takes 11 wounding past armor on HP 20 guy. That's a hell of a lot of abuse.

>>50581821

>Jian

I've always wondered why this counts as a fencing weapon. A 28 inch, 1.8 pound sword with a single hand hilt and minimal crossguard isn't exactly a novelty and would fit in well beside lighter examples of European contemporary swords, with early bronze types being nearly identical to European straight swords of the same period.

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>>50582063
>Innate Attack
>Guided
>Reduced Range until 10
>Rapid Fire as many times as you can afford it

"Now I will blast out thousands of glowy bullets that will slowly chase you around the screen! HA HA!"

>>50576924
>>50581821

The Longsword or Katana give good offensive capabilities; less damage than an axe or morningstar, but better reach. They can also parry OK; combine them with a shield and you have decent defences. Alternatively, get a main-gauche weapon (which doesn't need to be one of the heavier ones, since you have the option of parrying with your main if you really need to) and use fencing parries. Longsword/main-gauche is probably the strongest combination of weapons in the game in my opinion so long as you are allowed cross-parries and you don't have to stop a huge number of attacks.

A pair of Main-Gauches is a nice combination. They give you fencing parries, allow the use of cross-parries (which makes up for their light weight) and can attack at reach C or 1. The fact you only need one skill for two weapons allows you to max out on it.

Two rapier weapons is also a decent dual-weapon combo, although you absolutely need decent unarmed skills in case someone closes to grappling range.

Finally, you can take Judo or Karate plus a weapon that can switch from one-handed to two-handed use (typically an Axe, Katana or Longsword) and grip mastery. Parry with an empty hand (probably best to have some armour on that arm, just in case) and transition to a two-handed grip to get maximum damage on the attack. Good if you were investing heavily in unarmed skills anyway or if cross-parries aren't allowed.

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>>50582063
Wich 2hu, anon?

>>50582063
from what little i remember of the touhou series, probably a lot of innate attacks with various modifiers statted out as alternate attacks to eachother
i think it depends on what you're really aiming for though, because from what i recall the series had a REALLY diverse cast and besides 'lots of glowy ball duels and magic' i can't think of much that connects them

>>50582372
IIRC, there's a large disconnect between 2hu in fluff and 2hu as seen in game; the characters can do some insane shit, but due to magical law, all battles are settled via the bullet hell danmaku duels we see in-game, which all boil down to Innate Attacks with Rapid Fire and/or AoE/Cone+Bombardment. Without those laws in effect, battles would get way more insane and lethal with a LOT more potential for collateral damage and more far-reaching unintended consequences (e.g. What would happen if a demon that controls literal and metaphorical barriers REALLY cut loose?).

>>50576924

I agree with >>50581821 but:
>Axe... Probably best paired with a rondel dagger or knife-wheel
I prefer pairing with another axe, that way you only need to train one skill, and if you attack with one hand you can still parry with the other.
Mostly I like it for all the situational options it opens up, if you get a perfect setup you can throw one axe without disarming yourself, if you need to emphasize offense you can dual-attack or AoA: dual with both axes for a good chunk of potential damage.


Spears are dirt-cheap so you can get them Fine and Balanced for a minor investment, so unless you spend a fortune on your sword a spear will actually outdamage it by a fair bit. Spears are also throwable which is a nice added bonus.
Spears are also unique in that one skill covers both single-handed and two-handed use, with weapons ranging from short one-handed javelins to huge pikes, so with a bit of preparation you can handle any encounter, even picking up a shield and going spartan-style if the situation demands it.
Solid choice most of the time, but doesn't have the same "high level" potential a sword does, and they're limited to Impaling and Tip slash damage, making them less than optimal against the undead hordes.

>>50582299
>>50582372
Nobody in particular. The conversation went as follows, almost word for word
>what kind of character do you want
>lots of bullets
>So... basically Touhou
>yes. Can I have a power too then?
And that's how I got here, asking how to make one.

>>50582510
Knives are deceptively effective if you know what to do and have the options available. You can basically ignore the Swing option as it's not where knives excel.
Same as the spear, you can get one that's Balanced and Fine for less than the cost of a decent sword, and you can reverse-grip it if you have Martial Arts for even more damage, reaching Thr+2 Imp in C range isn't hard at all. (Reverse gripped Fine Katar gives you Thr +3 Imp, same as a thrusting greatsword... It's also stupid as fuck).

Now, Skill and Technique is where knives really shine.
Knives are DX/E, so for the same point-investment as the best alternative, you have +1 skill over that option.
As I've mentioned, your knife is almost certainly Balanced, giving you another +1 skill over a sword

That alone gives you +2 skill and +1 parry over your opponent, with a Balanced larger knife in your off hand you'll parry just fine (a Balanced Short Baton will do in a pinch, just $50)
Offensively, since you're reverse-gripping your main hand, you can trade that "free" +2 skill you have on your opponent for a -1 deceptive strike... Which turns into a solid -2 to opponent defenses because of reverse grip!

Another benefit is that many knives are, throwable, as well as being cheap and lightweight. Personally I'm not really a fan of thrown knives, since spears and axes pack a much bigger punch, but it's nice to always at least have the option.
Another huge, huge advantage with knives is that they're almost always socially acceptable, you can even bring your favorite knife to a fine diner at TL 3 or 4, the same isn't necessarily true of a bigger weapon.

Drawbacks of course include very limited range (best you can hope for is range 1, but you're sacrificing your reverse grip bonus if you do), near-useless Cutting attacks and not much else, and if you play with damage to equipment rules, not the sturdiest of weapons.

>>50582259

As per Basic Set's entry on Main-Gauche, it's explicitly for off-hand parrying, and you need Knife skill to attack with the main hand.

Has a later book changed this somewhere?

>>50582510
>I prefer pairing with another axe, that way you only need to train one skill, and if you attack with one hand you can still parry with the other.

That limits you to Reach 1 and no fencing parries though. Although dual axes should be pretty good in combination with unarmed skills; if you need the fencing parry, just throw one of the axes.

>Spears are dirt-cheap so you can get them Fine and Balanced for a minor investment, so unless you spend a fortune on your sword a spear will actually outdamage it by a fair bit. Spears are also throwable which is a nice added bonus.

However, spears don't offer fencing parries and only the long spear actually has decent range used one handed. In two hands, they have no access to defence bonuses unless you use them as staves, which means you need to buy staff skill and Form Mastery. Compared to just using a staff or going for a polearm, they seem like a weak choice for a pure melee weapon (throwing weapons is a whole other thing, which I deliberately avoided for the sake of post length).

However, it occurs to me now that a spear could be even better than a longsword when combined with Judo/Grip Mastery or Main-Gauche. Karate might also work instead of Judo, offering the option of kicking at Reach 1 if using a Long Spear.

>>50582613
>Reverse gripped... Katar

I think you need a pretty inattentive GM to get away with that.

Reminder that GURPS: Gladiators has rules for presenting/denying a side, which modifies your parry/block and lets you more freely modify the reach of your weapon.

>>50583108
I've always wanted to use those rules with a Long Spear + Large Shield fighter.

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>>50582594
well, just having a lot of weird utility to your innate attacks is a good place to start if the concept is largely just 'lots of bullets', and you can simulate that effect with cones or area attacks that have the 'bombardment' limitation (which attacks each potential target in an area at an effective skill rather than automatically hitting everything in the area)
adding 'selective area' to this then lets you pick and choose your targets, which is handy
innate attacks with just a high rate of fire are pretty good on their own, since they start at rcl 1 which means that you effectively hit the target a number of times equal to their defense's degree of success subtracted from your attack's degree of success, and acc 3 which is just really good if you have time to aim
additionally, any attack with a high (5+) rate of fire can be used to suppress or spray, which is also super nice sometimes
there's also stuff like unique damage modifiers, follow-up attacks, high knockback attacks, overhead attacks, and persistent area attacks, which can all colour an innate attack in unique ways that you probably won't normally see.

finally, turning all of these options (high rof single-target attack, cone attack, area attack, ) into alternate attacks for eachother makes it all much cheaper - you pay for the most expensive one at full price, then pay 1/5th price for the rest
the drawbacks are that if your expensive attack is disabled then all of them is disabled, and you can't use more than one of those attacks in a turn with extra attack

as for other character powers, i really can't give much advice, it's hard to tell just what you guys want there.

>>50582944
>That limits you to Reach 1 and no fencing parries though.
Reach 1 is something of a limitation, I agree, but not fencing parries.

First, the obvious, I can wear armor and gear and not be penalized for encumbrance, so if one can get regular parries to a comparable level they're superior to fencing parries unless we go really high point heroes and the ability to parry many attacks per round becomes a must.

But let's do the maths and make a comparison: Take a low "fighter" budget of, oh, say, 16 points for Axe or Axe+main-gauche skills, and 10 in DX for simplicity. The more points you pump into the skill portion, and the more advantages like Weapon Master you add, the more Axe only is favored.

I have Axe at DX+4, or Axe 14. My parry is 10, +1 for Retreat
You have Axe at DX+2, Main Gauche at DX+2, both skills at 12. Your parry is 9, +3 for Improved Retreat.
I have better offense, you have better defense, I can Deceptive Strike to make us even.

The same deal with 24 points gives me Axe 16, My parry is 11+1
You can only increase Axe to 14 or Main-Gauche to 14, giving you an offense of 14 -OR- a parry of 10+3
At this point, I've surpassed you in a straight duel, all my attacks are Deceptive bringing your defenses lower than mine while my offenses remain equal.

>>50582944
>In two hands, they have no access to defence bonuses unless you use them as staves, which means you need to buy staff skill and Form Mastery. Compared to just using a staff or going for a polearm
Polearms don't have any defense bonuses either, other than the long range itself being a defensive advantage, and spears don't really shine two-handed, they're definitely outmatched by polearms there.

>they seem like a weak choice for a pure melee weapon
If you have only one skill, few skills are as versatile as Spear.
Staff would probably be the other one, but Staff takes up both your hands always. Spears only seem "weak" because they're applicable in every scenario, from range C (reverse gripped, also simultaneously throwing-ready) all the way to range 5 and throwable. One handed or two-handed as the situation demands, wieldable with a shield, another weapon, a torch, etc, On the frontline or behind a shield wall.

Do you ever find that fighting really small enemies can be frustrating for your players due to sm hit penalties. Any suggestions for making small foes less annoying.

So what are the pros and cons of the various options for your second hand?

Shield: defence bonus (usually +2), can block, weak attack, penalty in close combat. Usually heavy, inconvenient to carry and ready.

Second one-handed weapon: can use cross parries (+1 to one defence, but can't parry again with either weapon), possibly a retreating bonus if using the right skill (effectively +2 parry), can give good attack options (different reach or damage type, dual weapon attack), needs off-hand weapon training, possibly uses same skill as main weapon. Usually fairly light, can be drawn easily.

Empty hand. Can use defensive grip (effectively +1 parry) or unarmed skills (getting the +2 if retreating). Can switch to two-handed grip for extra damage. No weight or cost, doesn't need to be readied.

Two-handed weapon. Usually better reach or damage, can use defensive grip (+1 parry). Only needs one skill.

Of those, shield only seems worth it if you are using a fencing weapon in your main hand for a total +4 to your parry, in which case it's probably the strongest option. Empty hand is nice if you were putting points into unarmed skills anyway, but not worth it otherwise. Two weapons is good, but really needs two skills, a perk and a cinematic technique to get the best results. Overall, I think the two-handed weapons look the most promising. Defensive grip mostly makes up for the lack of defence bonus from a shield or the benefits of fencing parries. Swing damage is penalised unless you have Grip Mastery, but that's only one point and you save a few by only having one skill. Reach and damage is generally better than otherwise available. With a fine spear you get to make thrust+5 reverse grip attacks at reach 1 and have the option of switching to reach 2 if needed or using it one-handed if your arm gets crippled and you can generally claim the parry bonus from defensive grip without any drawbacks. Grip mastery with a quarterstaff is good too, getting +3 with defensive grip.

>>50583158
Alrighty, so he's finally given me the power he wants
>Ability to the extent of stealing things
It's a bit dull of an ability, but his plan is to steal advantages primarily, and other things secondary. I believe that there was a modifier I saw somewhere for this, but I can't find it for the life of me.

>>50583824
As a GM:
Treat them as a swarm. Swarms cover everything up to SM+0 zombie hordes.

Use cannon fodder rules. Most small enemies, from goblins to space bugs, aren't meant to be important or take up time individually; dispense with defense rolls or HP and have any successful attack squash or slice up the enemy outright.

Check out Combat Writ Large in the Combat issue of Pyramid for rules/advice for handling SM differences in battle.

As a player:
Use AoEs. Attack areas of ground at +4 and catch the little shits in the blast.

Grapple. Holy shit is grappling a good option against tiny foes (it's how a GURPS Everyman beats the dreaded housecat). Obviously, less good vs lots of little enemies, but that's what the last option is for.

Telegraphic Attack. If the little buggers are small AND fast, this is worthless, but slow and stupid enemies won't benefit as much from the defense bonus while your attack bonus helps mitigate the SM penalty.

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What Tech Level would be the era of Total War Attila?

>>50583824

Pyramid 77 has some useful rules, but one which is straight from the Basic Set is that grappling doesn't take SM penalties; instead the larger fighter actually gets a bonus to hit!

>>50519551
Question, how bad of an idea would it be to, as a GM, focus more on eyeballing the concepts and capabilities of the characters, instead of focusing on a specific point value for PCs?

>>50584611
Without having played it, I'd guess TL 2 with maybe a little TL 3. It's set in what should be TL 2, but apparently a lot of the units and upgrades in the game are stuff which wasn't actually seen until the 8th century, which would be early TL 3.

>>50584858

Probably not too bad, depending on how comfortable you and your players are with that. Points aren't really very well balanced anyway; the main thing they do is give you a structure and some limits to what you can do.

>>50584977
Yeah, definitely. The reason behind it is basically how unbalanced points can be, and how some concepts can be VASTLY more expensive than others, despite not being much stronger mechanically.

>>50584858
I eyeball almost exclusively now after years of GURPSing; build to appropriate concept, not point value. Point value builds are appropriate for specific types of games, but for most character/story focused campaigns they are, as a metric of balance/niche protection/"power level", pretty useless. The most important thing is that the characters work cohesively as a group and fulfill their intended role or purpose individually.

That said, there are still some types of 'balance' to look at which are not point related; highest DR you want a PC to have, for instance, or highest level of innate attack, or how many cinematic abilities is too many, or etc. But I kinda consider these as a part of eyeballing, keeping others characters in mind, the campaign theme/genre/tone, and the initial "character pitch" the player gave me (like, if somebody wants to be the 'best damned pistolier in the west', no other PC should have a Pistol! skill approaching his, and they probably shouldn't be allowed to take Gunslinger either unless it really fits their character and the two players are both on board with each other).

>>50585430
tl;dr each character should be awesome in their own ways, in the way the player wants them to be, with buy-in from the GM and other players at the table. You can have Bilbo, Legolas and Gandalf in the same party as long as they understand what the aim of the campaign is and what they're getting themselves into as far as the other PC's. With everyone having bought in, there is zero issue in play, and in fact many of my players have thrived off of this asymmetrical style of campaign.

>>50584308
It's Leech in Powers

have someone here played EABA? how is combat?

>>50587732
EABA?

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>>50582613
You know, you are selling me on knives.

Thrusting damage is weak in a lot of ways, but you can make it work, especially when you get solid bonuses and you can target the vitals up close. This seems extra good vs shield users and other types that don't like combat at range: C.

What are some skills and advantages to take for a human NPC that would make her good at avoiding and escaping grappling?

I want to make a slippery and flexible assassin type to counter some of my players who love grappling.

>>50589408
Here's a few off the top of my head:
Skills: Judo/Wrestling, Escape, Erotic Art.
Advantages: Flexibility/Double-Jointed, Insubstantiality, Slippery, lots of ST + Power Grappling, Innate Attack with Aura, Enhanced Dodge/Parry, Invisibility, Obscure (Anti-Targeting).

>>50589156

Arrows can be barbed in order to make them painful/deadly to extract Why can't knives receive the same treatment?

>>50589455
The others make sense, but

>Erotic Art
How does that help?

>>50589483
:)

>>50588765
it is another system, but i heard it is so obscure that only gurps players heard of it

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Other than Edge Protection, Defensive Attack, and having enemies utilize armor with good DR against cutting/impaling yet poor DR against crushing, what other rules exist to put maces plus hammers on a level playing field with swords?

>>50582613
A few observations:
1. $360 for a balanced, fine large knife (assuming they use sword prices for fine and not axe prices) is only somewhat competitive with a cheap longsword ($280). The longsword, while two points behind in skill, is four pounds, meaning any time you parry it it's going to have a 1 in 6 chance of breaking (2 in 6 normally, -1 for fine) if you ever decide to try. They can afford to make Telegraphic Attacks, too, and fish for breaking on a parry. That $80 difference in money spent could be used for more armor, which thrusting attacks hate.
2. You can't make a short baton balanced because it's a money crock. Martial Arts says so. I think a DF pyramid lets you make sticks balanced for +1500%, which quickly makes this expensive.
3. Knives are a pretty terrible option for throwing. No accuracy and poor damage.
So, going back to the fine and balanced knife, you have Reach C 1d+2 imp at ST 13, compared to the cheap longsword's Reach 1, 2 1d+2 imp at ST 13. You paid $80 more for a primary weapon that's worse at parrying, equal or worse in damage, and worse in reach. If you spend another $360 for a balanced, fine large knife in the off-hand for parrying, you also need to invest in off-hand weapon training for it to not parry at a penalty, or pay $180 for a balanced fine short baton and you've just made the gap between you $260~440, which is definitely enough for decent armor for the cheap longswordsman. And a short baton will be rolling to break every time it parries a weapon weighing 1.5 pounds or more, which is most weapons.

tl;dr: Knives can be effective but at what cost? Rolling to break a lot, inferior reach, and putting quite a bit of money put into these weapons that will be rolling to break a lot. 16.67% chance to break every time you parry, like, 80%+ of the weapons, or just break outright against anything as heavy as a longsword (0.5 * 8 = 4, +1 to break for every full multiple past x3).

How do y'all handle gear? Do you always do itemized lists, or do you have "assumed" stuff like if the PC is a soldier they have a med kit or etc.? Anyone use the abstract gear pack rules from that pyramid issue?

Curious about whether you differ the system you use for gear tracking/encumbrance based on campaign style, e.g. fantasy vs. apocalyptic vs. action/pulp vs. supers, etc.

>>50581821

Two words: Defensive Attack. With this option, the viability of warriors primarily armed with Parry 0U weapons skyrockets.

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>>50589914

Check out the Long Knife in GURPS Martial Arts and GURPS Low-Tech. Now that is a weapon that gives an edge (no pun intended) to knife fighters.

>>50590823

1.5 lbs means you won't be rolling to see if the weapon breaks versus a broadsword or longsword.

The Parry is not penalized.

Range is all-around superior to the Large Knife. Ditto for the Swing damage.

The only downsides relative to the Large Knife are its greater weight (0.5 lbs more, to be precise) and greater cost (10 GURPS bucks more).

>>50590823
>>50590948
Senpai the long knife is $120, not $50. You probably misread the kukri's statline. That said, $600 for balanced, $1080 total for balanced and fine long knife. Not too attractive, since it's at the point where one asks "Why not go whole-hog as a landed knight with proper weapons?" It still has issues parrying heavier weapons, but 4.5+ lb. weapons aren't as common. Even a normal spear is only 4 lbs.

That said, the long knife's a great (and cheap) alternative to a cheap longsword if you're looking to get up close and personal with people. It seems like it'd work especially well with grappling. Word of Dan Howard says the long knife's meant to replace the shortsword, FWIW. http://forums.sjgames.com/showpost.php?p=1748797&postcount=10

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>>50590948
At TL8/Modern the long knife/Messer also has the small disadvantage that it's going to be illegal in many places where you could get away with another knife. They do blur the line between a knife and a sword.

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>>50584002
Don't overlook the fact that you can always take a hand off a two-handed weapon if you need to and take actions, from spell gestures to grappling. Two handed weapons also tend to fair much better in Close Combat then Shield and Weapon users.

That said, shield means you can even skimp on Combat Reflexes while staying relatively safe, while the power to block arrows and other ranged attacks at no penalty is very nice.

>>50591271

Being a knife fighter of Average or lower Wealth is an all-around superior choice if your setting is relatively realistic and/or modern.

Why? Well, swords are comparatively rare and expensive. Being good with knives means you're never without a weapon, as these blades are all over the damn place in society.

>>50591168

If you want to pump cash into acquiring a super knife, feel free to. Even a Good quality (Fine for free at TL7+) Long Knife is a "not bad" solution to defending yourself against most one-handed swords.

>>50591603
I don't know, TL 3-4 there is something to be said about just going for the best weapon. There's nothing more expensive then being the second best equipment in a life or death fight.

HEY GURPS, THEY SAY YOU HAVE RULES FOR EVERYTHING.

BUT TWO HOBBITS IN A TRENCH COAT PRETENDING TO BE A HUMAN WERE TO TRY COORDINATING THEIR MOTOR SKILLS TO JUMP OVER A HOLE IN THE GROUND

HOW WOULD I DETERMINE WHETHER OR NOT THE BOTTOM ONE DROPPED THE TOP ONE?

>>50591168

Replace? The shortsword is an actual historic weapon...not to mention very common in fiction of all stripes.

>>50591672
ST check. Next?

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>>50591672

A Mount skill check, duh.

>>50591641
It's not bad, no, but there are better options depending on the context. Shield wall with spears or a quarterstaff come to mind, both cheaper than a long knife.

>>50591677
Did you read the forum link?

>>50591651

If you can afford it, if they're available and if society permits you to carry it. Dungeon Fantasy and the like are the exception rather than the rule.

Speaking of weapons.

I'm running a TL1 campaign and I feel like the prices given by GURPS are a bit too cheap. Should I try to modify the prices or has there been an attempt made somewhere at more realistic prices? Or are GURPS prices well-researched and reasonable and I'm fucking up my own research?

Also, when a weapon is listed under two skills (Khopesh, Axe and Broadsword), is there are reason to choose over the other or are they functionally identical as far as that weapon is concerned.

>>50591781
GURPS prices for weapons are relatively reasonable, but reflect, especially at low TL, that people simply don't have very much available resources.

If you dislike the way this works out the easy way is to give players a discount on weapons and armor (their most expensive items, in most cases) or give them more money all around.

>>50591780
Historically sword ownership was almost never restricted among freemen.

>>50591717

If you want to keep changing the goalposts, feel free to. I presented a relatively cheap and light weapon which is wielded by the cheapest possible Skill level in the game as a means of parrying in the off-hand against weapons you are likely to face (specifically brought up because someone earlier in this comment thread mentioned using a weapon in their off-hand while wielding an axe in the main hand) and you're saying "well, the more expensive and heavier gear is better".

Duh? Was there some deeper point you were driving towards?

Also, as far as I know, you're not getting the juicy +2 to Parry with a Staff if you wield it in one hand (several GURPS writers agree on this point http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=1437).

>>50590148
Bumping this question for curiosity's sake.

>>50591867
>give players a discount on weapons and armor (their most expensive items, in most cases) or give them more money all around.
Actually, I feel like GURPS priced weapons and (especially) armor too cheaply for TL1, so I want to raise prices. Basically, I feel like the disparity between Cost of Living and purchasing weapons and armor should be bigger.

I'm not sure whether I should just blanket double the prices for all non-daily life items, for example, or just leave everything as-is.

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>>50590148
Itemized, in most cases.

In Monster Hunters, however, I often just go for the relative ease of buying an equipment package and lenses to avoid a huge gear list, especially if I don't have that long to make a character.

Otherwise when running, I tell players not to worry about things like normal clothing and household stuff if many games, down to assuming they have a reasonable for status home, car, wardrobe, ect.

If you don't like to do itemized list much you can always just keep things simple and assume that people have the basic equipment needed to use the skills they have.

>>50592005
Well the rules in Low Tech cover part of this, with how expensive bronze/copper armor is. You can push them higher without much trouble though.

>>50590148
I wanted to handle them as itemized lists, but my players are really bad at record keeping (and also not averse to fudging numbers onces in a while), so now I only expect my players to list things that they want to use in an active way.

So I just assume that every player has flint, bedroll, food, a utility knife, maybe a short length of rope, and stuff like that for every day survival, but if they say something like "I want to pour oil on the floor and light it on fire" and they didn't specifically buy oil in town, then they don't have any oil.

Here's how I'm doing it in the current adventure (it's a bit cinematic):

Basically, whenever my players want to use an item that they don't have listed and argue that "My character should have it, it's common sense" I consider how likely an adventurer is to have it, and if I think that it's likely enough, I roll for the characters IQ to see if he though of buying it. Then if they have been on "adventure" longer than a week or so and it's a consumable item, then I roll for the Survival skill relevant to their environment to see if they still have any left. The rolls are also modified as I see fit by the situation and character (-2 to the survival roll if it's been a hard journey for example), or a +3 bonus the IQ roll if the character has the "Common sense" advantage.

I'm still new to GURPS, so far I've only been through Basic Set, LT and MA. If there's a better system than mine to use, I'd be glad to hear about it.

>>50592335
That's a neat way of handling 'incidental' items, I like it.

I could have sworn there was some rule on how to automatically balance skill levels above 20, usually for superpower games.

Something like, if an attacker has 300 in Karate and the defender has 250 in Dodge, then run those two numbers through [some formula] to turn the Karate into a 16 and the Dodge into a 12 for the purposes of applying modifiers and rolling dice. This ringing any bells anyone?

>>50593589

It is a rule, but I don't know what page it's on. If I recall right, you subtract 20 from both characters' skills until both are reasonably within the range 3-18. I think it only applied in contests, not regular rolls (since then you use high skill to soak penalties).

>>50593589
Mostly it's for quick contest of attributes.

If two people have BALLS HUGE levels in an attribute a quick contest might go on for a long time. You'd also have equal likelihood of them failing once both are past 17.

ST 18 vs ST 20, for example.

The quick fix is to drop the lower attribute to 10, then reduce the higher one by the same amount. In this case, dropping it to 10 vs 12.

>>50593589
In in Success Rolls chapter, unless you are talking about some optional/house rule.

>>50593627
>>50593672
>>50593738
There it is! "Extreme Scores" in Regular Contests on page 349.

When both scores are greater than 20, reduce the lower to 10 and multiply the higher by (10/lower). So in my example 250 vs 300 turns into 10 vs 12.

I thought the rule directly referenced attack/defend rolls, but at least I know I wasn't thinking of some homebrew thing.

>>50591672
I would rule it as a group (take the lead person's skill, add +1 for each other person in the group who has it, -1 for each that doesn't) skill check against Acrobatics. I'd make the guy being ridden the lead, and also assess at least a vision penalty for having his eyes mostly covered.

so ill be playing my first game in the setting of deadlands reloaded, but the system of gurps apparently.

i decided to branch out from my usual muscle heads and play a scientist that tinkers with occultism as well, such as making machines that run off magic and the like. i thought it would be fun since usually people make those two things oppose each other.

before i get to work on paper i was hoping to get some tips from you guys about how to play out a character like this, what cool things can i do with it?

Basically all I've got so far is building machines and giving it life with magic to fight for me.

i was told to come post this in gurps general if i wanted help.

system specific, the GM is giving us 200 starter points and as of right now were only using the core book.

>>50595958
Especially good abilities for an inventor type are
Quick Gadgeteer (very expensive though)
Visualization
Gizmo
The Artificer talent.
High Manual Dexterity

Quick Gadgeteer lets you make sophisticated inventions at MacGyver speeds and budgets, but you still need the correct skills, look at engineering and armoury skills. Visualization gives good bonuses to the kinds of skills used by it, and Gizmo lets you retroactively build things on the fly:
>Good thing I built a weather control contraption yesterday and it just so happens to be in my pocket!
>Ok, so roll your engineering or weird science skills to build it.

Artificer is a skill bonus to all the most important invention skills. Some GMs say you can't acquire talents in play, but can level them up.

The most Important stat, obviously, will be IQ, but consider high manual dexterity too because being able to tinker with things will need it from time to time.

If you need to skimp for points, Quick Gadgeteer, at least one level of artificer, and visualization are the mandatory inventor advantages.

>>50596224
Wow, this is REALLY helpful, thanks

>>50595958
There are two approaches.

>Simplified
Use Allies to represent magitech robots and automated turrets. This is very straightforward and cinematic, and it's also the most cost-effective way of giving yourself buddies. For making other objects (guns, auto-grapnels, radios, etc.),, you can either stat the object up as a character (ST and IQ 0, whatever functions it has represented as advantages, plus Compartmentalized Mind (Controls)) or take the Snatcher advantage.

>In-Depth
Take Quick Gadgeteer (along with other traits >>50596224 mentions) and use the Inventing rules from campaigns. This is much more freeform and gives you a lot more options, but it's a *LOT* more expensive points-wise; you're going to have to invent stuff way above your current tech level to have it be the equivalent of magi-tech, and the penalties for that are huge. Also, if your GM isn't good with on-the-fly decisions, you're limited to what equipment already exists, and if you're Basic Set only and not using Ultra-Tech, you may be limited on what you can build robots-wise.

Similarly, Technology Spells do not exist in the Basic Set but are introduced in GURPS: Magic. If you can get your GM to allow that book, there might be some useful spells in there for a would-be magi-tech inventor/engineer.

>>50589476

Low Tech Companion 2 has that option for spears and polearms with spear points, maybe that could be used as a guideline? From a purely technical level I see no reason why you couldn't make a knife barbed.

Or maybe not, that book is IIRC pretty wonky when it comes to both balance and realism.

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>>50590148

Itemized lists. My games tend to have the PCs on foot for a very lengthy period of time and away from centers of civilization. They are highly capable adventurers, yet they still live an die based on what's in their backpacks.

>>50599497

and*

>>50519551
Hey. Thought to ask this here. I bet this has been answered before but do you have any tips how I should approach PF Magus type character? Basically sword mage whose focus is buffing his "sentient" weapon. If someone is familiar with Blade Bound concept. You'll probably get what I am aiming at. I'm the GM but I'm bit lost how I should approach this type of character. I'm planning on using it as a NPC (significant NPC) so stats arn't as important. Mostly the advice how I should try to approach this type of thing, TL4, Normal mana, threshold limited magery.

>>50599735
Build the sword as an ally with Always or Nearly Always appearance and enough levels in Signature Gear to pay for it's body.

Focus on magic that boost the weapon?

>>50599735
Never played PF Magus, so I'm a little out of my depth. Are the buffs just temporary spells like "hit harder" and "light fuckers on fire while I'm stabbing them"? Or does the sword grow alongside you in power independent of any temporary buffing spells.

The former is covered by a very specialized spell list; the Fire College has Flaming Weapon, the Water College has Icy weapon, etc.

The latter is covered by buying the sword as an Ally; see Thaumatology, specifically the end of the chapter entitled Material Magic, for an example of a magical sword built using character points and bought as an Ally.

Shame you aren't' using Imbuements.

7d6(2) burn ex, acc 5, rof 3

Is this something to be afraid of as a dragon in GURPS that's p.old

>>50600004
>>50600264
Thanks for these. I'm really looking for ways to approach this thing. Honestly I didn't even remember imbuements before you mentioned them.

But to clarify few of your questions. I was thinking that the character buffs the weapon with temporary buffs like above mentioned Icy Weapon and Flaming Weapon.But the weapon could also have its own abilities...

My though was that when character gains experience and learns, so does the weapon (with it's own personality and char sheet)

I'll go check that Thaumatology right now. I'll be back later.

>>50600346

Depends on what context.

It's very comparable to a battle rifle firing armor piercing rounds, with a much better damage type (burning as opposed to pi-) and explosive. Would you be afraid of a giant lizard wielding a battle rifle?

In TL 4 or thereabouts where you'd generally expect to see a dragon, it's fucking devastating and no mail nor plate will save you.
In TL 7 it's a threat, but not a significantly worse one than an enemy sniper is (the sniper is potentially a bigger threat, as the sniper can take his time and Aim and shoot for vitals or head, while the dragon is probably limited to something like a flying move & attack, and of course there's the issue of visibility, most dragons are ill suited for stealth and camouflage).

>>50600346
Assuming two of three hits make it (I feel a safe assumption for a reasonably skilled dragon and Rcl), that's 7d burn *twice* in one turn.

On an unarmored target, that's *minimum* unconsciousness, on average multiple death checks, and at most instant death. On a target in the heaviest armor (per Basic Set, that's Maul Hauberk (4/2) layered under Heavy Steel Corselet (7) for DR 11 vs burning, halved to 5), the minimum injury is 4, the average injury is 38 (which is still multiple death checks), and the maximum is 64 injury (which is still instant death for HP 10 fighters or damn close for HP11+ combatants).

Since it's explosive, a miss will still deal a significant amount of damage, possibly to multiple party members; AoEs also scatter on a miss, so the assumed two hits its probably closer to 2.5 hits.

In short, that's a hella dangerous dragon simply on the basis of its breath weapon. Add on DR from scales, mountains of ST/HP from size, and flight from wings and you have a stupidly lethal boss monster I wouldn't use unless my party was very very high point levels, I hated them and wanted them to die, or both.

>>50600815
>Since it's explosive, a miss will still deal a significant amount of damage, possibly to multiple party members; AoEs also scatter on a miss, so the assumed two hits its probably closer to 2.5 hits.

Explosive are nowhere near that bad, even 1 yard away the 7d(2) burn loses it's divisor and is divided by 3. 2d+1 burn. 2 yards away you divide by 6 and get a meager 1d burn.

In general it's fragmentation that's dangerous for your health, something a dragon's breath obviously lacks.

>>50600958
The big danger here is a direct hit. Between the armor divisor (Why?) and the high base damage it's going to really tear things up if it hits them, and even on a miss will do quite painful amounts of damage.

I'd note that in most cases I'd model a dragon's breath as a Jet or Area attack instead of as an explosion. This is the equivalent of a dragon that spits shaped-charge grenades.

>>50600958
2d+1 and 1d are still pretty serious; that's as scary as a ST 12-14 orc with a mace, which is pretty lethal. ST/HP rarely gets out of 10-14, and TL4 armor isn't that protective; it won't one-shot on a miss, but it can deal a major wound or otherwise chip away at sturdy adventurers.

And that's the biggest issue. This damage is per turn from a monster that can easily last many many turns. RoF3 7d(2) burn is a serious trap, but as a monster attack it's, in my opinion, too lethal. It can oneshot the beefiest tank every single turn, and making it explosive means dodgetanks are just as dead after a few turns.

I'd use it as a puzzle boss; a direct assault is suicidal as most point values, but if the party can ambush it with a balista, chain its mouth shut to negate its breath attack, or get it to fight the party in an environment it wouldn't want to use its breath attack in, then it's more reasonable a fight.

Are all Allies NPCs?

I have a player that wants to take an Ally and essentially play 2 characters when the Ally is present.

I feel like that's a bad idea on so many many levels. I'm going to tell him no anyway, but it'll be easier if the rules are backing me up.

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>>50601262
Allies are NPC's as per RAW
They're extremely loyal(if not modified) but they're in the GM's design and control

>>50601262
Allies are explicitly NPCs.

>Your Ally is usually agreeable to your suggestions, but he is not your puppet. He will disagree with you from time to time. An Ally may try to dissuade you from a plan that seems foolish to him – and if he can’t talk you out of the plan, he may refuse to cooperate. An Ally may even cause problems for you: picking fights, landing in
jail, insulting a high noble . . . Of course, the Ally will also try to bail you out when you make mistakes.
>An Ally is specifically a skilled NPC associate for one PC.

>>50601358
>>50601325
'kay, thanks.

>>50601262
>Are all Allies NPCs?

Yes.
>An Ally is specifically a skilled NPC associate for one PC.

Even if you modify it and make a 110% devoted mindless slave for your PC who follows the PC's every whim, the Ally is a GM controlled NPC.

If someone wants to truly play more than one character, use something like Duplication instead.
An idea just occurred to me, if you want to play two DIFFERENT characters, would it be fair to buy Duplication and most of your applicable traits with "Accessibility: Only by one duplicate: -40%", based on the "Only by one side of split personality: -40%" Accessibility?

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>>50601236
If the recoil isn't high the dragon could just rapid fire grenade-breath at the ground at people's feet to get 2d+1 x 3, more then enough to drain most adventurer's health bar in one round.

>>50555343
Check out Synactic Magic in the GURPS Magic sourcebook.

It's essentially magic powered by creativity, where instead of knowing specific spells, you know noun spell words and verb spell words which you combine to create larger spells on the fly.

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>>50600346
>everybody thinks this is talking about a dragon with plasma pistol breath
10/10, actually a fucking incredible mental image
this came up because he was wondering if a plasma pistol would be dangerous to a dragon after i gave him the basic GURPS stats for it.
i determined through using a fanmade conversion of a black ancient dragon i'd found that it'd still be pretty dangerous, and that the fight would probably be pure rocket tag

i'm curious to know how /gurpsgen/ would stat out dragons though, and if they'd be more or less powerful than the stats i'd found.

>>50601803
There's always GURPS Dragons, for a variety of dragon stats. 3rd edition book/PDF, but has 4th edition conversions of all thr book's statlines in the last section.

>>50601262

The "Minion" Enhancement may be what you are looking for.

[purring intensifies]

https://kendelyzer.wordpress.com
New GrimWyrd log!

>>50604618
>https://kendelyzer.wordpress.com

..and in less than a moment of the match beginning, Master Horsa skewers the Ro-Haern through his heart. [Critical hits in GURPS are a nasty business, and Horsa managed to feint the man into a critical failure of his dodge. Horsa then stuck maximum damage into the vitals through the critical hit tables. ]

GURPS can make for anticlimax duels.

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Is anyone here actually playing a game with an open slot?

>>50605441
I /just/ filled my game dawg, so sorry :/

>>50605441
Are you any good

>>50605441
>recruiting people from 4chan
I thought that this never ends well

>>50605516
I've had worse experiences recruiting IRL than most of the horror stories here

>>50605506
No but I try my best

>>50605516
GM here, I find the best players from 4chan, really. I honestly don't know why people say otherwise.

Roll20 is shit-tier and full of normies, and there aren't many other places to recruit from.

>>50605516
Never tried it myself, so this is second-hand info, but the consensus seems to be /tg/ is slightly better than other online roleplaying communities (which isn't saying much). I know that the roll20 community is possibly the worst out there, and compared to that 4chan is a fucking dream.

You will always run the risk of some creeper shitting up your game, though.

When making NPCs and enemies, do you guys worry about point totals or do you just whack in whatever the NPC needs? Do you add disadvantages to your NPCs that are more "flavor" than gameplay effect (personality disads and stuff)?

>>50605558
>Point totals
By Kromm, no. I make NPCs and enemies based off one of two things: what would be an appropriate challenge, or what would be realistic. I default to the former in DF and Action games and the latter in high-realism/high-austerity games.

As for the stuff about personality and flavor traits/skills, it all depends on the role the enemy has. Important enemy? Yes. Mook, fuck no, that's a waste of time; on the off chance it comes up (e.g. party slaughters the goblin hoard but takes a single one prisoner), I wing it or pull from a pile of personalities.

>>50605558
Point total for NPCs don't matter. After initial generation, point totals for PCs don't really matter either.

>>50605558
I just write down what feels "right" for a given NPC and/or how I want a given ability to work in play. No traditional statting workups required at all. I do tend to give them a few quirks and disads to round them out, though usually that's more of a reminder for myself of their characterization and weaknesses than anything.

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>>50605558
I'll make NPCs to a point total if they are allies or enemies. For many other NPCs I use a simplified stat block that doesn't include point totals, but does reference any disadvantages they have as role playing notes.

It can make a NPC quite memorable to know they are a Bully with SC 10.

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https://legendsmith.github.io/technicolor-dream-GURPS/tcdgapp

I return from the code mines to bring you the latest in GURPS technology.
I've updated TCDG with the following:
An attack calculator, which includes MA's committed and defensive attacks, see the webm for a demo.

I also added logging and saving of the logs so you and your GM can have a record of what's going on. Logs are also saved with the character saves so you don't need to save it every time externally. Clearing logs deletes it from the character save data, to prevent bloat. So you can save the logs per session, then clear it.
>Next on the development trail:
Adding the advanced hit location rolls to the attack calculator, so when you hit someone in the arm with a crushing attack, it'll automatically roll the chance to hit a joint, and likewise for cutting, impaling, etc for arteries.
After that comes possibly one of the most crucial, but extremely painful to write features: Loading characters from GCS files. That's going to be pure suffering to write. I hate XML.

>>50607959
Wow, this is really cool.

>>50607959
It is really moving a long way from where you started, great update. I hear you about the PITA that will be the next major feature, but it's also going to really help.

Late to the thread, but maybe someone will still answer...
Should phobia be under disadvantage or quirk?

>>50610360
It is, by default, a full Disad. However, if it is ridiculously uncommon (e.g. fear of flying in a campaign set in a historically accurate stone age) or you simply want to role play it without the harsh penalties of the full disad (like Indiana 'hating snakes' but never running for his life from them, breaking into tears and cold sweats, or refusing to go into an archaeological site because of them), then you could probably take it as a quirk with GM approval.

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>>50610360
>>50610391
Well most variable cost disadvantages can be reduced to 1 point versions without a problem and used as a quirk. The quirk level of a phobia can just be noted as a 'dislike'.

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>>50610360

Keep away from the more restrictive/broader Phobias (weapons, darkness, monsters, etc) unless you know you and/or the party can handle them.

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>>50600004
>>50600264
Hey! Me >>50600490 again. Thanks for the advice! Things should be getting interesting now.

>>50610391
>>50610360
There's rules for 'quirk level' versions of disadvantages in GURPS Power-Ups 6: Quirks

>>50591781
>Also, when a weapon is listed under two skills (Khopesh, Axe and Broadsword), is there are reason to choose over the other or are they functionally identical as far as that weapon is concerned.

It's the same weapon, used with a different skill. Like a longsword can be used in one hand with Broadsword skill or two hands with Two-Handed Sword but any given longsword works with either skill. Does that make sense?

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>>50607959
MORE UPDATES. The advanced hit location rolls are now in, though it doesn't show it on the mannequin yet, the text box tells you.
I combined No School Grognard's better fantasy armor with the MA rules.
Basically, changed this 'joint' position to 'artery/joint'. Crushing hits joint, cutting, imp, pi, etc hits artery.

Added a favicon, and finally, I resized the abdomen hit location on the hit location mannequin to be the size it should be, and changed the nose colour to match the rest of the adv. hit locations.

If you want to help out, you can add stuff to the quick weapons list. Have a look here, instructions on how to add are in the file.
https://github.com/Legendsmith/technicolor-dream-GURPS/blob/master/quickweapons.json

Make a github account, fork the repository, and then find the file in the repository (you don't need to download anything), an just start edititing it in browser with the edit button (looks like a pencil).
Once you've done a few things, add a pull request.

>>50611109
Sure, I got that part. But lets focus on the Khopesh for example.

Suppose I'm building a character that uses the Khopesh as his main weapon (an Egyptian warrior or something) is there any reason to choose Axe skill over Broadsword skill or vice-versa? Is there any reason to get both Axe and Broadsword skills?

>>50611362
I don't know about the kopesh, but for weapons that can be wielded with a two handed skill needs that skill to be wielded properly with 2 hands, otherwise it reverts to default (a penalty, basically).

>>50611362
For just attacking normally, I don't think there is any real difference. However, some things do require a specific skill. The Whirlwind Attack technique (Basic 232), for example, requires broadsword skill. Axe/Mace skill wouldn't work.

I love GURPS!

But I hate trying to set up campaigns for it. It's almost too generic. How do you figure out what you actually need/don't need?

>>50615199
1) Use a series that does the work for you; Action, After the End, Dungeon Fantasy, and Monster Hunters is literally made for stuff like this. It's the closest you can get to "pick up and play" in GURPS (though the DF standalone will truly be PU&P once it comes out).
2) Use a series that does the work for you... as a base. I'm running a heavily modified version of Dungeon Fantasy at the moment, and even with the work I put into modifying DF to do something outside of not!D&D, it was still faster and easier than building it all from the ground up.
3) Read "How to Be a GURPS GM." This book is hella good and stupidly useful. If this book came out at the beginning of 4e rather than a decade into it, GURPS would have a much more positive reputation.
4) Have a slow job that gives you lots of time to think and pour over the books in your free time until your knowledge is near-encyclopedic.

>>50616402
>Dungeon Fantasy
How is that? Anyone play it?

>>50616402
>How do you figure out what you actually need/don't need?
If it comes down to it you can always ask here!

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>>50615199

I've found that GURPS almost *requires* a GM with an especially strong imagination...someone with a clear idea of what they want, to be specific.

Anyhow, because the mechanics are "out of the way" (read: unintrusive) until I need them, I find the system to be highly rewarding

Is it possible to allow the player's to acquire up to Dodge 15+ for their characters and still give them a worthwhile challenge?

>>50617219
Of course. Here's a few off the top of my head:

Rapid fire weapons. Machineguns, rain-of-fire spells.
High skill enemies that use deceptive attacks, ripostes and such.

How do I overcome being too timid to roleplay? I want to get into my chracter but i feel like an autist

>>50617268
Try online in text first. Once you feel like you're into it there you can start doing it verbally. Embrace the autism.

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>>50617179
You can't just say 'let's play GURPS' the way you would say 'let's play D&D'. You need to build a game up and have a strong idea, allowing you to do things like set point totals, pick a TL and chose what books are used in this game.

>>50616402
Pre-made settings can be great for this, as it gives players and GM an easy reference.

>>50616736
Pretty good. Kinda over the top action but it is still GURPS enough to make combat deadly and tactical.

>>50616736
It's baller. Obvious inspirations from AD&D but refined with a level of detail you don't see in many OSR dungeoncrawls.

>>50617219
More ways:

Ambushes. Places with bad footing (and don't allow that perk that removes bad footing penalties).
ALSO
Fright checks. Don't neglect them

>>50617219
Swarms of weak enemies help. If they surround the PC, no active defense. If they don't, more attack rolls = more possible crits which do not allow active defenses.

I played with a dodge-tank once and a mook's lucky crit with a spear took him down.

>>50617765

What is the point in having an excellent defense if the character is going to die from a flunky's one-in-a-million shot?

>>50617818
The challenge is in not getting ganged up on: make tactical retreats, utilize terrain, exploit bottlenecks, etc.

Also 1d-1 imp shouldn't one-hit anyone; if the PC's fighting naked, that's their own fault.

I've got a game that features some underworld elements but they're not the focus. How should I go about making it interesting for the PC who's supposed to be making criminal/smuggling contacts and conducting such activity?

>>50619018
It's up to them to supply the high-power gear the rest of the party needs though black-market contacts.

>>50619018
Find a way they can use the criminal contacts to resolve a situation elegantly that would otherwise be hard, like getting something that is illegal.

Give them an occasional small side story/mission for dealing with underworld stuff so the players can try it out, then get back to the main story without too much delay.

For example..

The player gets asked by a underboss/mid level person in the underworld to send a message for them after one of their bagmen/collectors was beaten and robbed. All the PC has to do is go to where the drug addled thugs live and beat the lesson into them to not fuck with their friend's operations.

It's a story that can be resolved quickly, gives a type of fight the players might not see much (unarmed, or using lethal weapons to intimidate people into surrender then holding them at gunpoint/swordpoint while beating them), and raises some basic moral questions. In return for the little favor, the criminal contact remains happy and sends a 'gift' to the PC.

>>50619487
Yeah that's what I'm hoping for. But I want to make it more interesting than. "You roll streetwise." and then play out a conversation with the fence.
>>50619505
This is a huge help, thanks anon.

How do I pierce the heavens with my drill? How do I touch the untouchable and see the invisible? How do I fight the powa?

Trying to wrap my head around rpm. Are there any good guides?

>>50620766
>How do I pierce the heavens with my drill?
Innate Attack (Impaling; Cosmic, Irresistibler Attack, +300%; Suitable amounts of Increased Range, +X%;)

>How do I touch the untouchable and see the invisible?
Affects Insubstantial enhancement and See Invisible advantage.

>How do I fight the powa?
Make a Will roll to resist your Uncontrollable power.