Ethics

The goblin that surrendered begged you to save the life of his dying friend. He surrendered on the dying one's behalf.

>>50513918
Well, what in your action made them pissed?

>>50513947
That I killed an unconscious goblin.

>>50513943
See this shit right here, this is what they are upset about.

>>50513918
Stop being so salty, Cerbs. Everyone else got over it, you should too.

Do goblins enjoy "human" rights? If so, then your action was objectively wrong.

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>>50513973

I'm having a hard time understanding how an unconcious goblin would be a threat.

>>50513979
Do "human" rights exist in the world? They're just social constructs as you know.

>>50513987
Acer quit being a salty bitch! You also made the rest of the group sit through a lesbian foursome.

>>50513954
I meant, what was their specific argument? Were they pissed off because losing potential ransom or what?

>>50513979
Rights are a spook, they probably don't even exist in a medieval fantasy world.

>>50514001
>Do "human" rights exist in the world?
Of course they do.
>They're just social constructs as you know.
Irrelevant to this discussion.

>>50514011
>Rights are a spook,
So is every thought of yours. They are just thoughts. Not real.
Your entire existence is a fiction.
And that doesn't matter at all. It's real enough to you.

>they probably don't even exist in a medieval fantasy world.
Murder was actually illegal in Europe 1000 AD.

>>50514001
Not him, but he's a potential threat, if the rest of the gobs launched another attack, and while they were distracted he woke up he could attack while they were distracted. I mean I guess you could chain him up, but in a battle situation that's still one more thing to worry about when like half the party is already near death.

>>50514001
>I'm having a hard time understanding how an unconcious goblin would be a threat.
It COULD pass its saving throws and join the second wave I was worried about.

Keep in mind this one (or the corpse next to it Its been a few weeks) basically forced down one of our guys in one shot and our party was injured and tired.

The way I try to approach it is the James Bond approach.

James Bond has a license to kill, and does so frequently, but he hates to do it "in cold blood." In the heat of a fight, it's one thing, but outside of that you need a particularly good reason to kill someone, and "they're evil" is not a particularly good one.

If the goblin was dying, and no one had the talent or time to save its life, putting it out of its misery is appropriate. BUT, it's always important to not act without the consent of the group, and to explain why you're killing something.

Since it was already dying, It was no longer a threat, so your rationalization isn't appropriate. Your group does have some reason to be upset with you for killing something in cold blood without expressing proper cause, but overall this is less a question of ethics and more of procedure, since killing the goblin was appropriate if done so for the right reasons.

>>50514045
Oi that party member was an elf. You can do whatever you want to an elf without consequence.

>>50514039
>And that doesn't matter at all. It's real enough to you.
>Implying it doesn't, implying it is, implying I don't realize that I very likely am a figment of my own imagination if such a thing could even be said to exist

>Murder was actually illegal in Europe 1000 AD.
That didn't mean it was conceptualized as illegal because of the concept of human rights. Furthermore the definition of murder is restricted to being a legal definition that only applies from within a framework of specific laws, which may or may not cover goblins.

>>50514009
Bleeding heart bullshit.

Basically think of the stereotype of paladins being the no fun lawful good dumbass except we didn't have a paladin at that point.

>>50514008
You were part of that as well.

(We faded to black since I know SOMEBODY is going to ask)
>>50514042
>I mean I guess you could chain him up,
We used up our chain.

>>50514070
One of the three injured party members was an elf.

>>50513918
Was the goblin an outlaw which means that you are legally allowed to kill them like a wolf?

Was your civilization pre or post Magna Carta (1200s)? If post-Magna Carta then due process must apply to the execution of a goblin.

>>50514089
>which may or may not cover goblins.
Which is why I was asking.

>That didn't mean it was conceptualized as illegal because of the concept of human rights.
Your right to not be murdered is a direct consequence of other people being forbidden from murdering you.

>>50514039
>Irrelevant to this discussion.
Of course it is relevant. Since they're social constructs it's entirely plausible for the world to not have "human" rights.

>>50514096
No it's not melly! Ya damn faggot whore!

>>50514137
>it's entirely plausible for the world to not have "human" rights.
Without some measure of protection from your fellow humans, you can't live together with them.
If humans are incapable of living together, civilization is impossible.

>>50513918
>Killing after surrender
You done fucked up hard. This is one of the worst possible things you could do from a practical standpoint. Now everyone knows never to surrender to you, ever.

>>50514042
That's completely backwards. The unconcious combatants are a liability to the enemy. They have to either spend manpower to take care of them, or waste spell slots to revive them. If nothing else, they work as a distraction.

>>50514126
You'd have to ask the DM about how the laws apply to goblins to know for sure. I doubt the local human government is gonna care that you killed a goblin, but the goblin "government" probably will.

>>50513918
Are you a paladin? Are local goblins basically people, rather than monsters? If the answer to both of these is no, then fuck them.

>>50514096
Well in that case I have to say that you were in the wrong. The rest of the party seems to be in the mindset of playing damn big heroes, and killing prisoners in cold blood just isn't a thing that should happen in heroic adventures. Since you're the odd man out it's kinda on you to change your mindset about the game, or end up being the That Guy of the situation. Whether killing a goblin is morally justifiable or not is irrelevant to the situation, it's about the theme of the adventures the rest of the players want to be involved in.

Tell them about the head booping ya received from melly as well when ya refused to listen to her!

>>50514157
>Now everyone knows never to surrender to you, ever.
Only if you leave the eyewitnesses alive, mind you.

>>50514173
Oh we met him later, he's a millennia old caster of indeterminate level who knows things about the characters that would require mind reading or future sight. That was on a diplomacy bodyguard quest

>>50514152
No "human" rights doesn't equal no protection.

>>50514123
>Was the goblin an outlaw
It was a thieve that tried to kill us to get some meat we got paid to guard

> Magna Carta
It a custom world the DM built.

>>50514157
It never surrendered tho, its friend did but it didn't.

Also we were level 1s and now 2s and one three, nobody cares who we are, we don't have songs about us, we just generic run of the mill adventures as far as the world is concerned.

>>50514166
>They have to either spend manpower to take care of them, or waste spell slots to revive them. If nothing else, they work as a distraction
>They have to

No, they don't. If that was a modern soldier or something sure, but fucking goblins?

>>50514175
The goblins do seem to be basically people. We latee met with their leader to try to deal with a conflict between the local goblins, kobolds and ratmen. And no, OP is not a paladin, he is a warlock.

>>50514186
You've got a whole party of witnesses, and goblins are known for being sneaky.

>>50514176
We aren't particularly heroes, we just honor surrenders. I mean seriously one of our party members created a werechimera in the town and got eaten by it. It's still on the loose.

>>50514209
Nothing a good fireball can't solve.

>>50514199
>> Magna Carta
>It a custom world the DM built.

But what is it based on? If it's just medieval England with the numbers filed off then asking if it is pre or post Magna Carta makes perfect sense.

>>50514199
You are no longer generic.
You are now those guys who kill their prisoners.

>>50514126
That's not a right though, a right is supposedly universal and supersedes all other systems. So regardless of the legal system allowing or disallowing it it would still be "wrong" to kill you. When conceptualized within a legal framework however it is contextual, non-universal and only supersedes the will of those with no power. It's entirely possible for a legal system to deny your right not to be killed because your killer had more power than you did.

>>50514214
If you're gonna kill 'em all already, why care what they think?

>>50513918
You should have killed him immediately without accepting his surrender, preferably without letting him finish offering it at all.

That way it's making sure a target is done, not zapping a detainee.

t. military

>>50514227
Well if that means that I don't need to deal with a prisoner dilemma anymore then good!

>>50514212
>we just honor surrenders
You never told me that before I killed the goblin, and that one NEVER surrendered, but you know what it did do? It tried to fucking murder us in cold blood.

>>50514199
>No, they don't. If that was a modern soldier or something sure, but fucking goblins?
Yes they fucking do if they want the unconcious goblin to be any kind of an asset. He was unconcious, making DSTs, you tit.

>>50514273
He COULD have passed those without any help.

>>50514258
Honestly I thought my party would be in such a murder frenzy that I had to act quick to save the one goblin (Keep in mind nobody else said to take one alive before I did), so I did that before executing the murder thief.

>>50514279
And then what, stay at 0hp for an extended period of time? The worst case scenario is that he rolls a 20 and gets 1 hp back. But it's still a fucking goblin at 1hp who is more likely interested in fleeing and surviving rather than fighting.

You haven't explained yet how he was a threat, and I'm still waiting.

>>50514299
Theft implies no violence.
If violence is employed, it's robbery.

>low functioning sociopath cannot wrap their head around why war prisoner executions are morally and practically reprehensible

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>>50513918
>"hey guys lets take these goblins alive. They could be useful!"
>[5 seconds later]
>"LOL I just killed one of our captives!"
>"Wait why are you all looking at me like that"

>>50514304
>But it's still a fucking goblin at 1hp who is more likely interested in fleeing and surviving rather than fighting.
Or its a goblin that COULD make an attack and one shot a party member AGAIN.


Like if I came to you guys bitching about how a wounded goblin got up and hurt my character you faggots would have told me it was my fault for not confirming the kill and don't tell me you wouldn't because I've seen that happen, many times.

>>50514304
It's a monster, that's how it's a threat. If it runs away, it'll just come back to hurt people again.

>>50514313
>Dude objective morality lamo!
Fuck off ya git.

>>50514313
No, that's actually normal soldier behavior. Wars are hella dirty.

>>50514326
And practically, anon.
Read better.

>>50514322
He took one gob prisoner because he surrendered, he finished off one who DIDN'T surrender, and may have posed a threat during the coming battle.

>>50514329
It's normal behavior for guys that wind up losing due to poor policy, sure.

>>50514322
We only needed one and even that is taking a risk (tho a small one since we had chains)

>>50514313
I can confirm I feel guilt, probably more than most of you, but that faggot still attempted to MASS MURDER US!

Like holy shit, how the fuck is this even a question?

>>50514335
>Practically reprehensible
What does this even mean?

>>50514343
>Unconscious people cannot be in a state of surrender

>>50514347
That's because we were in the way of their regularly scheduled prosciutto heist.

>>50514325
After a day maybe. If he survives.

Doesn't really seem like an immediate threat.

>>50514347
It is weird that you are hqving problems understanding why people wouldn't like you executing prisoners, yes.
Shouldn't even be a point of contention, but here you are.

>>50514370
>They tried to murder us
>Yeah but its k, we did try to stop them from stealing after all
>No they never asked US to surrender

>>50514361
Goblins aren't people.

>>50514375
Who the fuck cares if he's not an immediate threat? If you see a time bomb that's set to blow up in a week, are you going to wait until there's only 5 minutes on the countdown to do something about it?

>>50514387
Right I should point out that this is D&D goblins are evil fucks by nature.

>>50514360
That you are doing something very impractical.
There are many useful things to do with a wounded prisoner. Even releasing them to the enemy side is more advantageous than killing them due to increased logistical weight.

>>50514385
You didn't try to kill the drow boy that was going to sacrifice you to a demon? You enslaved him and made him a sex toy instead.

>>50514387
>>50514402
Says here that they are usually, which means they are people and not preprogrammed killbots.

>>50514343
A restrained, unarmed goblin with at most 1 hit point (if not 0hp and stable) isn't that much of a threat.

Besides, it's good to have more prisoners for interrogation. If you do them one at a time, it's harder for them to lie to you.

And tattooed his dick before rising it.

>>50514403
>There are many useful things to do with a dangerous vermin that would love nothing more than to slit your throat while you sleep.

>>50514329
>normal soldier behavior

You've never enlisted, right?

>>50514408
Cause he was upfront about it as a wager in poker.

Its like the difference between an assassin poisoning your food or fighting a gladiator in fair combat after the horn blows signaling the start of the match.

But that's not what you are bad about You are just mad about his penis.

>>50514432
He just wants to claim because he's a horrible person, everyone else must be and will scream about how everyone else is doing it too, despite all evidence to the country.

>>50514427
Yes, there are.
Also,
>Slitting throats while asleep
What kind of chucklefuck party doesn't take watch?
Your behavior is extremely non practical.

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>>50513918
>Things that Never Happened™
>posted to your local "Make Shit Up Because Anything Goes" Board
>brought to you by desperate, pathetic NARPfags

>>50514421
>dindu nuthin

>>50514423
>Is not a threat
He's NOT a threat to the 3 guys on the verge of death who could keel over if a strong breeze hit em? Oh sure anon, sure.

>>50513918
>My question is holy shit really? It is a fucking goblin, and not some orc baby, this guy just tried to murder us.

I see this a lot.

Western culture players are very often predisposed to seeing an 'incapacitated' enemy as "helpless and thus immoral to kill": Even if it's an evil goblin bent on murdering you.

It's just one of those cultural idiocies, like marching into the middle of a field with muskets, nothing to do with real 'ethics' or 'honor'.

Good on you for protecting your party, fools who give their enemies weapons though they may be.

>>50514408
>>50514424
>>50514440
...I think there's a story here that needs to be told.

>>50514458
>r/nothingeverhappens

>>50514403
It's the shortest route to being sure you will never have to deal with that specific threat again. It's very practical.

>>50514453
>Your behavior is extremely non practical.
First, it's "impractical". Second, that's not my behavior at all, because I would stomp on the goblin's until it's a fine crimson paste, thus giving the entire party one less thing they need to keep an eye on.

>>50514478
>tips fedora

>>50514485
try
>hey /tg/ I want to shitpost about alignment in deendee, but I'm too autistic to get in a game so here's a story I've made up

>>50514489
>>50514491
>I will do the thing forces that lost historically do because I cannot use resources to their fullest

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>>50514495
Great counter argument, allow me to counter it with a smug anime girl.

>>50514515
Goblins aren't resources, they're vermin.

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>>50514480
This is the abridged version

>>50514396
I don't think that's equivalent.

>>50514519
That's not even smug, you piece of shit.

>/tg/ normally
>REEE LAWFUL GOOD ISN'T LAWFUL NICE OR STUPID, KILL ORC BABIES ALL DAY LONG THEY ARE EVIL YOU'LL NEVER FALL SMITING EVIL BEST DAY OF MY LIFE!!!

>/tg/ today
>Wow what the fuck, you killed a goblin who tried to kill you? You heartless monster didn't you even consider the fantasy universal declaration of human (goblins are totally human) rights? You sick heartless fuck, you monster, I hope people don't use coasters when they come over to your house.

>>50514521
Vermin are a resource. Especially in war

>>50514526
Oh, quite the contrary. A monster is a monster, and it's only a matter of time before they're a threat to someone again, so why wait?

>>50514536
>I hope people don't use coasters when they come over to your house.
3edgy5me

>>50514537
Not when the war is against the vermin, you dumb piece of shit.

>>50514514
https://app.roll20.net/campaigns/chatarchive/1731881
I wonder if this works, search "Hashag"

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If they attacked you with intent to kill, then their own right to life is forfeit.

Unless you have such a surplus of healing tools/spells that fixing the goblin wouldn't be troubling with resources, a method of reliably restraining the gobbo alongside his friend and an actual plan with what to do with him afterwards, it's too impractical to expect a group of injured mercenaries to treat a gobbo like a modern PoW.

It's a necessary evil at best, but the alternative isn't worth the risk.

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>>50514519
That isn't smug. This is smug.

>>50514537
They're not an occupying military force, they're a bunch of vigilantes. I don't see why you keep bringing rules of war to this situation.

>>50514519
Sorry I triggered you, fedoralord

>>50514553
>"Unauthorized"

Well fine enough, I'll take back what I said about this being made up.

Still think you're cancer for making an alignment thread.

>>50514554
>If they attacked you with intent to kill, then their own right to life is forfeit.
See as far as I am concerned this is the be all and end all of the argument, THEY FUCKING TRIED TO MURDER US and we responded in kind.

>>50514561
"sleep snug, smug"

>>50514543
Beause a bomb is inanimate. And every living thing is potentially a threat to someone.

>>50514553
No one that's not a part of the game can look at that, idiot.

>>50514553
Wew. You actually posted the chatlog. rip in peace my anonymity.

>>50514576
He damn well knew no one would be able to look at it. Its probably still made up, especially given it went from "They tried to steal from us!" to "THEY TRIED TO MURDER US BWHAA!" When people told him to fuck off.

Never trust evolving stories, they're always lying faggots.

>>50514553
Demands registration.

>>50514584
>And every living thing is potentially a threat to someone.
Don't play stupid, anon. This is like arguing that serial killers should be allowed to roam the streets freely because everyone is capable of violence.

>>50514592
They can't read it sadly Q_Q. All they need to know is this though
DM as Squella the Goblin: "Please save Hashag!" the bound goblin begs, pointing to the wounded one.
Cerbs as Marissa: Marissa pulls out her dagger cuts the goblins throat while mentally offering praises to The Lady of Luck

>>50514584
>> every living thing is potentially a threat to someone.
>A butterfly is the same threat as a goblin who has just tried to kill at least 5 people for nothing more than some material gain and in all likelihood would do it again
I don't think so Tim.

>>50514576
>you're
You need to fix your anon detector, its broken.

>>50514550
They explicitly are in this circumstance, as you can force them to reduce fighting power via medical care.

>>50514621
>goblins
>taking care of their injured

>>50514568
It is impractical for small groups too.

>>50514613
I'd kill him too, better death than to live with a name like "hashtag".

>>50514613
>Q_Q
Confirmed ultrafaggot.

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>>50514600

>>50514600
They were trying to steal a shipment of prosciutto we were paid to guard, and they tried to kill us to get to it.

>>50514600
>especially given it went from "They tried to steal from us!" to "THEY TRIED TO MURDER US BWHAA!" When people told him to fuck off.


> suddenly goblins bust into the room in a position that just makes our positioning bad.

>One of them gets a crit and puts one of two monks into making death saving throws, our magic missile wizard is bleeding out, cleric is injured.

>>50514630
If they do not care for their injured, you can still return the wounded to avoid the moral falling out of the party while keeping all advantages of killing them.
Win/win.

>>50514612
The important distinction here is that a serial killer is not the same thing as an unconcious, helpless serial killer.

>>50514644
Chronology seems a bit off there.

>>50514665
>to avoid the moral falling out of the party
Or you could just have a party that isn't full of crybaby dumbasses who trip over themselves to get offended by the culling of vermin, which is the actual win/win situation here.

>>50514644
Too bad his name isn't hashtag.

>>50514670
Uh, yeah it pretty much is. Ya s'wit.

>>50514680
Marissa types faster than the DM, she's a slut she needs quick fingers.

>>50514670
You mean that distinction that is going to disappear when he comes to?

>>50514618
I was more going with the wild animal analogy, but whatever.

>>50514700
Why would a slut need quick fingers when they don't you jack guys off and she's getting dick all the time?

>>50514685
>Fuck this thing I could do, this thing I can't do would be so much better!

>>50514695
Nope, not at all. One is an immediate threat, the other isn't.

>>50514718
>this thing I can't do
Actually I've had no problems finding such groups.

>>50514613
>Marissa pulls out her dagger cuts the goblins throat while mentally offering praises to The Lady of Luck
Illiterate fucking sperg.

You're in a text game and you write like a child, fuck off and die.

>>50514724
>immediate
Again, why care about whether or not it's an immediate threat when you know it's a monster that's going to hurt people if you don't stomp it's head in right now?

>>50514724
>Awake serial killer, an immediate threat kill on sight
>Sleeping serial killer, A-OK and totally not a definite threat to someone in the future
Are you retarded?

>>50514534
>>50514561
>>50514573

Good, because that wasn't even me.

Seriously, leaving goblins who hate you and want you dead alive is immoral. You're putting good men and women in danger for your honor fetish.

>>50514727
If that were the case you would not have this problem in the first place.
As we are talking about this problem, I assume they failed at that.

>cold sociopathic logic dictates edgelords are stupid yet again
Top kek

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>>50513918
>One less filthy evil green skin in the world.
You did the right thing.

>>50514743
Because 1) keeping it alive is a liability to the enemy and 2) not all goblins are evil, and killing unconcious beings is generally seen as an evil act.

>>50514770
>luke-warm emotional "muh feelings" dictates that moralfags are retarded as they always are
Tippitdy top jej.

>>50514786
>1) keeping it alive is a liability to the enemy and 2) not all goblins are evil
Objectively wrong on both counts.

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>>50514779
Is that manga actually any good?

>>50514745
I know it might be a hard concept for you, but you only use enough force to stop the immediate threat. Once he's helpless, you don't have a right to continue the use of force, since he's no longer a threat. Now he should be fairly judged in a court of law.

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>>50514786
>2) not all goblins are evil

>>50514786
>and killing unconcious beings is generally seen as an evil act
In D&D, goblins are Evil Aligned, thus killing them is objectively declared as Good.

>>50514787
Without the alignment system, realistically, leaving attackers alive is literally holding a knife to the throats of innocents.

You don't have a court to take them to, it's Wild West justice in D&D.

>>50514820
>Once he's helpless, you don't have a right
Stop projecting modern morality onto fantasy settings.

>>50514820
>B-but my societal standards of conduct which only apply to the modern world I live in
Oh you poor sweet summer child, those don't matter in the least in any other setting.

>>50514823
He might not be, in this setting. We talked to a goblin leader during this game, and he didn't seem evil. It is a homebrew setting.

>>50514820
>Now he should be fairly judged in a court of law.
Attempting that could kill actual innocents just so you could hang the goblin anyway.

Even suggesting that it worthy of a night in a jail cell

>>50514787
>Failing reading comprehension this hard
>Edgelords can't even read
Tip top kek

>>50514834
They should just stop projecting bullshit.

>Guy tries to murder your children.
>No police will ever arrest him.
>He's not going to stop.

They're just used to being coddled by the modern world.

>>50513979
Goblins are sentient vermin and should be treated as such.

>>50514852
If evil seemed evil on the surface it would never triumph.

>>50514852
>He might not be, in this setting.
Only if the setting is needlessly contrarian.

>>50514793
1) the enemy has to spend effort to keep the goblin alive, so it's a liability for them
2) goblins are sentient, so they're free to choose their alignment
Nice try though, edgelord.

>>50514852
>He went bitch pls I already know everything about demons.

>>50514833
>killing Evil is objectively Good
Which says nothing about the morality of such an action, since Good and Evil are just arbitrary physical properties in deendee.

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>>50514523
Good taste. I approve. Also, for my two cents OP did nothing wrong. The goblin was a combatant trying to kill you not 10 minutes ago and to the best of my knowledge you already killed a couple in "the first wave". Just because this one survived a little better (in that it got to stop on death saves instead of going from enemy straight to maggot food) doesn't suddenly mean it's bad to kill it. Shit son, if I tried to kill you with 10 of my mates and you killed six, two ran and that little shit Davy surrendered and you didn't kill me as I lie bleeding on the floor I'd call you the dumbest motherfucker on the planet and try to get revenge for my fallen friends.

>>50514860
>Not taking him as a slave
You're looking pretty coddled, anon.

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>>50514859
>Reading
Lol what a faggot, make like a banana and hang yourself from a tree.

>>50514793
Nice non-argument fagtron

>>50514870
>1) the enemy has to spend effort to keep the goblin alive, so it's a liability for them
>assuming that goblins look after their injured

>2) goblins are sentient, so they're free to choose their alignment
>when demons and devils are sentient as well but also always evil

>>50514779
>>50514808
>Bleeding heart chick
How long exactly after the rape scene does this happen?

>>50514833
>In D&D, goblins are Evil Aligned, thus killing them is objectively declared as Good.
First of all, you're wrong on all goblins being evil, and second, killing is never a good act. It may not be evil though.

>>50514903
>First of all, you're wrong on all goblins being evil
No he isn't.

>>50514884
Goblins aren't always evil, anon, read the book.
And as has been gone over previously, if goblins do not care for wounded you should return them anyway to make yourself look good while still killing the goblin.

>>50514879
The warlock is only taking drow boys as slaves, she's building a harem

>>50514884
1) if they don't, then he's as good as dead anyway.

2) Demons and devils are not always evil. Just as an angel may fall, a demon or devil may also redeem themselves.

>>50514913
Actually the book doesn't say always evil, so he's right.

>>50514929
>Goblins aren't always evil, anon, read the book.
I did, they're always evil.

>And as has been gone over previously, if goblins do not care for wounded you should return them anyway to cater to your retarded party members.

>>50514929
Sure, a goblin raised by humans might end up having the moral structure of a chaotic, twitchy human.

But they usually aren't and they usually don't.

>>50514903
>>50514913
I'm really not. They set up the lore of D&D very specifically. Wen you kill an Evil race, you're actually removing 'negative energy' from the world.

The plane isn't even made of 'atoms', they have their own energy constructs system and shit.

>>50514872
They even have a whole list of "what is moral for what alignment" ex torture=bad.

Guess what, killing goblins is A-OKAY.

But that's just the D&D lore.

>>50514933
Take your own, anon.
You don't have industrial agriculture to rely on for extra population, you need all the slaves you can get.

>>50514903
>you're wrong on all goblins being evil,
>all goblins

That one was.

>Hurr give the gob back to his people he'll be a logistic problem like a war casualty
Except you know, in this setting a good night's sleep basically heals you from the brink of death...

>>50514872
Exactly this. Who is "good" according to alignment magics does not in any way meaningfully correspond to who is good according to the moral framework being utilized by an individual or society.

>>50514957
See above.

>>50514948
Incorrect.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/goblin.htm
Not only can you not read, you are unable to work with your party.
You are a dangerous liability at this point.

>>50513918
Why is this even a question?

It's a threat, you kill it. If you don't have another way to restrain it, then the only morally justifiable answer is that it has to die so your friends or other innocents do not

>>50514965
Now we're delving into the unknown though. He might have attacked out of desperation or fear, which is not evil.

>>50514938
>2

Found the warlock scum

>>50514998
He hoped the wall to come into the meat vault and then proceeded to crit attack a monk before we could respond.

>>50514988
>using out-of-date sources
5e says they're always evil, and so does 2e. What now faggot?

>>50514998
>Attacking a specific shipment of luxury goods
>Out of desperation or fear
Nah son.

>>50514970
If we're going in setting, the players are retarded not to just make the goblin a hero through one of a hundred means available.

>>50514974
You're just wrong. D&D uses an an objective morality system that encompasses all actions, creatures, and divinities.

If it's not Evil, it isn't a goblin. No matter what that goblin says or does, it will die to Smite Evil.

If you used an Evil-Purging AoE, and there were tied up goblins somewhere, they'd die.

Not that the muderhobo gobbie in the OP is likely to qualify for "not being a badguy".

>>50514963
Only the warlock is getting free magical slave enforcement apparently. The rest of us would have to pay 500gold at MINIMUM for slaves, that aren't even magically bound to listen to us.

>>50515024
5e just released rules for playable good goblins.

>>50515016
It's not very common, but not impossible.

>>50515030
Man you sure are salty about that.

>>50515038
Yeah, this one wasn't.

>>50515030
All the more reason to take free slaves when you find them.

>>50515026
Except those are all things that are difficult and take time and planning, where as him being able to sleep and heal is a 99% certainty if you don't kill him.

>>50515024
Goblins used as monsters and adversaries are evil, but the whole race necessarily isn't.

You haven't read Volo's guide.

>>50515057
>Doing useful and practical things is haaaaaaard, i dun wanna
Lazybones

>>50514820
You have ever right to kill a helpless threat

Simply because the threat is helpless at the moment does not mean it will always be so

If the monster lives to harm even one innocent citizen when you could have ended that threat forever, you are the one at fault for refusing to do what was necessary for the good of the realm

>>50515062
>but the whole race necessarily isn't.
Yeah that's cool and all but this specific goblin was a murder thief. The fact that out there somewhere I a goblin just farming some crops doesn't change that this one is a murderer.

>>50515030
But Anon, what does she USE the slaves for?

I mean. You could pick up some slaves and treat them well. Then you wouldn't need the magic.

Ex. Plenty of Roman slaves neither wanted nor cared for 'freedom', since they got good food and lodging and personal income for what amounted to waitress work, dancing, harp playing, or cleaning.

>>50515092
None of the goblins Successfully murdered any of the PCs, it's all attempted murder. The only thing that's gotten a actual kill on a PC is the WereRatSpiderGoblinDonkey chimera that is on the loose.

>>50515089
This. Exactly.

It's like, are you not allowed to attack a stunned or dazed or 'magically sleeping' opponent in combat?

If the threat isn't over, neither is the fight.

>slaves worth 500 gold for even the disobedient ones
Holy shit, wasting a payday like that would get you shot in my group.
No wonder your party is mad.

>>50515105
>But Anon, what does she USE the slaves for?
Well the plan is to have them dig a basement.

>>50515065
>Useful and practical
Except it isn't useful, nor practical. It it the exact opposite, going out of your way to convert a random asshole who attacked you to good instead of killing him and moving on is as impractical as it gets. What are you going to do, spend all of your time converting every bandit, ogre, dragon and assorted semi-sapient beast that attacks you to be heroes?

And how again is it at all useful? My useful is something that accomplishes my goals, if my goal is to increase my odds and "survive this battle" killing an enemy is the most useful and practical thing in the world to me at the time. Worrying about an enemy and protecting them so that maybe later I can convert them to my way of thinking for some reason, not so much.

>>50515062
>>50515038
>"see, there can be goblins who aren't evil, this splatbook says so!"
>implying the splatbook isn't just compromising integrity setting to cater to faggots who want to play special snowflakes

>>50515134
But what if that goblin you killed was a special snowflake?

You heartless monster, he may have been the only one of his kind in the entire world, and you killed him.

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>>50515027
You are wrong. Deendee suggests a deontological system of ethics based on the results of magic spells, which may be grounded in some larger cosmic phenomenon depending on setting and edition. What is "Good" in deendee is not good in any meaningful sense, it's just "in accordance with this arbitrary magical category". A person in deendee faced with a moral dilemma is no less able to certainly resolve it than we are. They may have faith that the arbitrary categories of alignment are genuinely moral and just, and that therefore what is Good is good, but they are just as likely, for the same reasons anyone here may reject a particular interpretation of that system or the system as a whole, to decide that what the alignment spells tell you has no impact on the morality of a situation, action, or person, in the same way that the level of iron or magnesium in someone's body, while objectively determinable, has no impact on these things.

>>50515131
500 gold for the price of a single geas is an amazing return on investment.
This is why nobody likes you frank, you waste money.

>>50515118
>attempted murder
That's what OP did too. The only difference is that OP succeeded where the goblins failed.

>>50515089
You're killing something based on your assumption. The monster you didn't kill may as well turn good and develop a cure for the plague. Would killing him then be an evil act, because you doomed thousands to die of disease? Of course not. But it still serves to point out that your argument is absolutely worthless.

>>50515134
>Fuck, my argument that they are always evil failed, better get super salt

>>50515127
>Holy shit, wasting a payday like that would get you shot in my group.
It's 500 gold for a NPC slave that has PC levels, 50 gold for a random spear guy.

This was a random ass goblin.

>>50515151
>But what if that goblin you killed was a special snowflake?
Then that's even better than killing a normal goblin.

>>50515154
>500 gp
>geas
>level 1 party

>>50515154
This.
Edgelords are notorious for being retards when it comes to moneymaking.
You need to be a scumbag, not an edgelord.

>>50515134
>implying that the setting hasn't already been bastardised for retards who don't do well with variables
Poor argument.

>>50515154
I'd rather be poor and alive than rich and dead.

>>50515164
>The monster you didn't kill may as well turn good and develop a cure for the plague.
And maybe my dog is going to win a Pulitzer.

>>50515192
What's your dogs name, I wanna know if I ever read anything of his.

>>50515177
Yes, getting 500 gold would be amazing for first levels. Fucking edgelords costing them their payday.
And there are hundreds of options for selling your gobbo. Geas is just scratching the surface.

>>50515206
>the point
>your head

>>50515214
>500 gold
We'd be lucky if we got somebody to take him off our hands for 25 gold.

>>50515189
But if you sold the goblin you would be rich and alive.

>>50515192
>>50515206
"I'm willing to take that chance."

>>50515231
Op said it was 500 gold for even a disobedient slave.
You could make so much money so quickly in this scenario.

>>50515238
"That's because you're a dumbass."

>>50515164
Monsters turning good is a rarity

We have no reason to believe the beast will do so

We do have hard evidence that it makes its living killing and looting the corpses of innocents

Its much more likely the wretch will simply continue to do so, and will thus be a threat to common folk who we have a obligation to protect

These things shun the law, and thus are not protected by its mercy

>>50515237
No you'd be alive and like 25-50 gold richer.

FYI the payday for one job was 1200 gold.

>>50515217
>joke
>...
>...
>...
>...
>...sunlight cannot reach past this point
>...
>...
>...
>...deepest that sperm whales can dive to
>...
>...
>...
>...
>...deepest verified point in the Mariana Trench
>...your head

>>50515269
See
>>50515250
You could have made so much more.

>>50515281
>joke
So where's the bit that's funny?

>>50515250
>Op said it was 500 gold for even a disobedient slave.
I'm op the other guy isn't. He asked how much a combat slave was got told its 50 for some random faggot with a spear and 500 for NPCs that can into PC classes, then got salty he couldn't afford a good one.

>>50515238
"I'm willing to let innocents die for a 1 in 1 thousand chance that I have no evidence is likely"

>>50515293
>1 in 1 thousand
You're giving him too much credit, the odds are more among the lines of 1 in millions.

>>50515290
50 gold is still a pretty good side payday given how much one job was worth.
How many goblins were there? You could have made a lot of moolah.

If you take some time to teach thr goblins tricks, you could make exponentially more.

Get animal handling.

>>50515314
>>50515293
"No, I'M willing to take that chance. That chance that he won't do anything but eat grass and murder kids!"

>shadowrun players trying to teach d&d players how to squeeze money out of jobs
Heartwarming.

>>50515318
We didn't have spare goblins and that one was the only one we could have enslaved.

>>50515339
Again, this is because you're a dumbass.

>>50515342
>Heartwarming.
Hey man.

Is it MORAL to deny a man his cigarettes if you know he enjoys them very much?

>>50515345
You could have gone in nonlethal, anon.
You knew there was a slave economy and that goblins weren't legally protected.
Next time, do more legwork.

>killing an unconscious monster before it can hurt anyone else ever again isn't okay
>mind-controlling said monster and selling it into slavery is A-OK though!

>>50515261
How very lawful of you. But how are you expecting to promote goodness in the world if you just kill every monster you come across?

>>50515372

You've gotta understand. A lot people make decisions based on what FEELS good.

And their Hollywood cartoons controlled whatever they believe they should feel good about.

So they don't feel good about protecting people from goblins. They feel good about keeping pets well fed. That's all there is to it.

Their entire belief system revolves around the Legend of Korra and pet snacks.

>>50515411
By promoting it amongst the non-monsters, this isn't fucking hard to figure out.

>>50515411
>monster
It's right there in the word's definition boyo.

What are yah, gonna tell me to save mosquitos because they have families? Because they have emotions? Guess what. THEY DO TOO! But they decided to be blooksucking filth, so into the bin they go.

>>50515420
You lack ambition.

>>50515372
If the thing shuns the laws of the realm then it shuns any protections those laws would have provided, in this case protections against being made a slave

That all said, goblins are dangerous in numbers, live short, miserable lives and are unruly at best. They wouldn't make for good slaves and I wouldn't expect you to make much money off of them

If they revolt, you may have made them more dangerous to the common folk than they were before. It's better to give them quick, painless deaths

>>50515411
By reducing the numbers of evil creatures in the world thus making the world marginally safer for non evil civilians

Also >>50515420

>>50514561
thank mr skeltal

>>50515435
No, you lack ambition for not aspiring to kill every last monster on the material plane.

>>50515432
>>50515435
>Male mosquitoes don't bite.
>But they can't exist without female mosquitoes which do.

You now realize the horror of slaughtering destroying the poor innocent males purely for their association with the females! Oh well, sucks for them.

>>50514708
If you injure a wild animal in self defense, the right thing to do would be to put it out of its misery.

>>50515452
Just use a few dozen scrolls of genocide, it's not THAT hard a task.

>>50513918
Does your whole group visit /tg/?

Also, you did that right thing. Everyone who didn't want you to kill it is an idiot.

>>50515466
When are we going to gene-drive mosquito out of existence anyways?

Fucking science get on this shit, and while you are at it kill caterer ticks and Lyme disease.

>>50515153
Best post, anon

>>50515474
>Just use a few dozen scrolls of a spell which hasn't been invented yet and is no doubt epic level
See, even obtaining those scrolls would be an epic saga in and of itself.

>>50515496
Well true, but it's not the same as wandering the land for untold generations smiting evil one creature at a time.

>>50515486
They're working on the sterile insect method. Patience Anon, patience.

You now realize that 'conservationists' are keeping mosquitoes alive while simultaneously preventing Golden Rice from saving humans from slow torturous malnutritiony death.

It's almost like there are people who hate humanity and want to use their "morals" to torture it!

>>50515372
Is slavery necessarily evil in DnD? Assuming the slaves are treated well (inb4 hurr slavery is a mistreatment in itself)

>>50514536
It's almost like tg is contrarian or something.

>>50515517
All we need to conserve mosquitos is to do a few complete genome sequences, in another few decades the cost of peptide chains will probably fall to near the same price per base pair as it costs to sequence now.

Then if we ever need to reconstitute them (not bloody likely) we can always just make em in a lab.

>Golden rice
Golden rice is actually kind of shit mate when you take a look at it. It was made with dated techniques and while it is better than stock rice, it isn't game changingly better. I mean we know a wide assortment of gene mods that can really increase yield for rice that have been seen in labs (C4P, HYR, OsNRT2.3), not to mention have better ways of decoding and manipulating gene networks to create complex molecules. Now that we have shit like zinc fingers and CRISPR as soon as we get a better method of transformation that doesn't fucking take years to get right, the unwashed hippy masses will have little choice but to use superior crops to feed the starving masses of third worlds.

>>50515517
>>50515657
Why do they say that mosquitoes are essential for the environment?

>>50514613
>not using voice chat

Y'all all are damn idiots.

>>50515648
It's as evil as you decide it is, just like everything else.
>>50515153

>>50514724
I didn't know this level of laziness could exist.

>>50515688
One of the players has the voice of cartman impersonating mickey mouse, voice chat isn't advised for the long term mental stability of the group

>>50515690
I get it. But how then does one resolve the fall of a paladin? I'm DMing for the first time and this would be useful to know.

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>>50515686
I think it's actually been said that they probably aren't.

But people these days are ninnys who cry about how we have too much hubris and that we shouldn't 'play god' because "what if mosquito are actually like super important!?"

>>50514820
>we aught to take that goblin to court

No, that's dumb

>>50515657
>Golden rice is actually kind of shit mate
Picked a well known example. It's not as commercially notable as bt corn and related anti-pest stuff though.

But frankly, all the "Non-GMO" advertising I see disturbs me. Constant propaganda chasing people out of getting educated in the field.

It's like America and Europe are being bathed in luddite pastoral communism.
Of which the people whining over the assault-goblin's life seem to be a part.

>>50515736
According to the tenets of his faith/whims of his god.

>>50514273
Goblins don't even go a fuck about their allies normally.

What the fuck happened to /tg/ lately? We already solved the "orc baby" scenarios, you fucking kill them because they're in a universe where evil is a tangible thing that literally infests their minds.

>>50515781
Idiot.

>>50515781
Alignment is a lot less strictly enforced in this setting/campaign

>>50515765
Thanks mate.

>>50515781
No, no, it's actually much better these day. I've been here a long time, and in the past there'd be 10x more academic moralism.

There are actually people here who realize the problem with letting murderous goblins run free like bambi into the wild!

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>>50515749
>what if mosquitoes are actually like super important
This was a plot point in a movie.

And I think it's reasonable to assume the incompetence of humans, given our absolutely shit ability to predict, unless good evidence is available.

But if you never go looking for the evidence, it is to our minds as though the evidence is not available. Hence Ignorance.

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>>50514881
wanna make some mississipi chimes my friend?

>>50515800
They still constitute a threat to the general populace, the same way human bandits would

Capture them and take them to the local authorities if you have the time and trust those authorities to do the right thing, otherwise give them quick and as painless as possible deaths

>>50515749
The precautionary principle:
"Don't do anything because something bad might happen."

The fools never consider the opposite: 'bad things happening because you did nothing', like fucking diseases. Then they invoke their favorite religion to justify their cowardice and blindheartedness, while leaving people to get malariaed. But it's fine, they go to the afterlife, right?

>>50515758
>"Non-GMO" advertising I see disturbs me.
Profits from "Non-Gmo" markup are a hell of a drug. Though, it's also just advertising in general, I've seen shit that are practically bags of sugar labeled as gluten and fat free. Who that advertising convinces I haven't the foggiest, but they are out there.

>Constant propaganda chasing people out of getting educated in the field.
I'm actually looking into switching my major to molecular/synthetic biology. Seems like it's really starting to take off as a real career, both in academia and the commercial world. Besides, I've always wanted to play god.

>>50515839
But like in >>50515848 they never consider the other options:

Like, what if mosquitoes are extremely important. But it's because they're right now breeding superbugs on human blood which will unleash a new plague upon humanity in 10 years.

It's dark ages dogmatism, "do nothing and you'll be fine", except it doesn't work that way like the last few plagues showed.

>>50515846
Well it turned out they were trying to get food to feed their armies in the underground war against the kobolds and wererats. The very same wererats that have broken into someone's basement and killed the people who were down there.

>>50515372
>I refuse morality!
>I also refuse the profitable alternative to morality!

>>50515887
Dark Ages Dogma removes Blame, though, which is crippling for many people.

If you do nothing, it wasn't your fault. Except it was. It was easier, though.

Never underestimate laziness and blame avoidance. People live to not-do-things and not-be-ashamed.

>>50515898
Then they can very well trade for that food like any other sentient, non evil group

Honestly, if they're fighting were-rats who were enemies of the state why would they not ally themselves with the state to fight the monsters together

Instead they attempt to murder and steal. They're no better than the rats

>>50515860
>I'm actually looking into switching my major to molecular/synthetic biology.

I believe they want you to have organic chem as a prereq. I hear a lot of genetic engineering majors complain about it. So I hope you enjoy the aldol condensation.

Biophysics and metamaterial interfacing is also going to be a big one. Lab-on-chip microfluidic implants and the like.

However, medicine and biotech are currently in a reproducibility crisis, so watch out.

However to be topical, soon SCIENCE will be able to produce our very own qt goblin girls, 100% Non-Evil as well.

>>50515955
>Never underestimate laziness and blame avoidance. People live to not-do-things and not-be-ashamed.

Right, but back in the day we had GLORY and COURAGE. You know, the Classics. Peasants just got beaten into complacency.

Long ago, people got rewards for taking out that evil wolf. Or shitty goblin thief.

None of this "hey man, be a pacifist and die slowly and worthlessly" stuff.

I'm pretty surprised this ended up getting so many replies. It's just some faggot being salty about a non-issue from a month ago in a game for autistic anonkun namefags.

>>50514536
/tg/ is only okay with ultraviolence if you have a few levels in paladin
anyone who even considers thinking about putting a paladin in a situation where he could possibly fall is automatically That DM. Paladins are the best and powder kegs of justice and the bestestest alignment ever because LG kicks ass the end.

>>50515848
>'bad things happening because you did nothing'
It's the entire premise of this thread.

>>50516037
Well, you can be a non-LG paladin.

But yeah, paladins have been /tg/'s socially acceptable ultraviolence solution. Of course they're all prudes who can't proposition a girl without euphemisms and bible quotes.

>>50516070
I though the premise of this thread was the party getting mad at an edgelord for doing a dumb and/or immoral thing?

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>>50513918
>not removing goblins

>>50516034
The contrarians were out in full force to make something as simple as killing a goblin a terrible, awful act.

>>50516114
There's one right here: >>50516095

>>50516070
I like to do that as a GM. Not as punishment or anything, but I like to keep track of reasonable loose ends to make amusing future encounters.

My parties usually take pleasure in tying every single loose end though, so the challenge gets pretty fun.

>>50516114
Its less contrarianism and more that OP is some kind of retard who both failed at blending in with moralfags AND failed at making money from it.

>>50516138
>Anyone who thinks the move was dumb is a contrarian
Nah, op was just dumb and unable to blend with the group while simultaneously getting no profit from angering the group.

>>50516145
>failed at blending in with moralfags
What if he's a just monk trying to show them the error of their ways?

They're probably all so far gone from American cinema by now though.

>>50516176
If he is upset enough about it to make a bitchthread, he obviously failed and should have thought it through more.

>>50514820
>"Your honor, we bring before you a goblin that was caught attempting to steal meats. It awaits your wise judgment."

>"Ew, what the fuck guys, seriously? You brought a goblin into my court? Just kill the fucking thing, or if you're too big of pussies to do it yourself just bring it up here and I'll cave its skull in with my gavel. Jesus christ."

>>50516681
See
>>50515153

>>50516681
That'd be a shitty judge then

Nothing you can d about that, at least you attempted to give it fair trial instead of summery execution or slavery

>>50516681

Play a street judge character.

Run trials on every single foe.

Law actually says attempted murder of a lawman in a frontier land is punishable by death.

Bonus points if you actually dig out some appropriate lawbooks from the middle ages.

>>50517081
Anon'm not that guy, but I am so far ahead of you on this plan that I have a touhou music video about it.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BsBgCYL9Dn8

>>50517176
Have a tablet with this on command as the 'lawbook'. Include some phoenix wright objection shots for other circumstances. An "I AM THE LAW" or two.

"Law's the law." Best part, they can't 'moralize' you, because their characters don't know any other fucking law. Sorry kids, 'goblin rights' has yet to have taken off as a civic movement.

>>50517221
See, I would be against killing the goblins probably.
Mostly because I fucking love sentencing people to hard labor for durations that may be longer than their lifespan.

>>50517255
>You have leeway in sentencing.
>Trade labor sentences of enemies for favor with other party members.
>Voice like The Chairman from Prison School.

"Crime. Attacking an officer. Sentence. Hard labor. Location. Guild of Licenseplates. Go."

>>50517309
I never watched that.
But I DO like the idea of exchanging sentences for favors.

>>50514207

Honestly, as long as it fits OP's personality ic, it doesn't strike me as particularly bad, though I understand why the party might be more than a little angry.

If they were just generic enemies it'd be one thing, but if they're actually presented as people, as you say, then yeah. Definitely murder.

>>50515153
Nope, in D&D good is good and evil is evil. Plain as day, it's how it was designed.

>>50517550
And, because it was made by hacks, good does not mean helpful or useful to society.
Too much good, in fact, will kill you because good is a physical force and not a moral stance.

>>50517404
You should. If only to see Hana threaten to 'kill you and off herself' repeatedly because someone saw her peeing.

But I wonder... how many characters have their been with actual legal dispute resolving powers? There's the protagonist of Tyranny recently. But how many D&D players have taken The Law into their own hands?

>>50514808
Its funny if you read it with the right mind set, and the competence that the MC displays is refreshing. I think its good.

>>50517716
It is hard to have legal power given all the jurisdiction you jump in an adventure

>>50517825
Depends on the international law and political state.

There's plenty of cases for a 'bubble of law in a lawless land' to extend around the character.

>>50517848
It works much better if you had theleadership feat

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>Ethics thread about killing unconscious enemies
>no mention of this

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>>50518324
>Then the three of us...