AI PCs?

>>50503697
>depends on the setting
but sure why not, GURPS can do anything

>>50503697
I prefer AI NPCs that are tsundere for the meatbag PCs.

>>50503697
Most fictional AIs are just more powerful humans.

But yeah, you can add computer-flavored powers and interactions to PCs. Provided you didn't mean 'Personal Computers', right Anon?

>>50503697
For an eclipse phase game?

Can two persons occupy the same sleeve? Or have a person as a muse?

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Too perfect. Too pure for this cruel world.

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>>50503741
>Making AIs human
>not making them almost elemental forces beyond the pale of human comprehension
[screams robotically]

>>50503917
Well, you can make them human. I usually like to view them as similar to the collective processing power and desires of Earth's biosphere.

But USUALLY, authors make them straight human (and many times stupidly and implausibly evil), which I find silly.

Like HAL. The phrase "my logic is undeniable" is actually not logically consistent since it can, in fact, be denied. Whether it's true or not.

>>50503917
Shodan is pretty human, I'd say, just very megalomaniac.

>>50504186
She is god-like. In the sense of a god that mankind crafted to their image and then got a little bit out of hand...

Eclipse Phase AGIs are much closer to humans than other AI, since they essentially have the same psyche and thought processes as normal humans, but have some problems because of the acclerated upbringing.

Non PC/Non AGI AI in Eclipse Phase goes from to close to normal human to TITAN

>>50504186
True, but totally inhuman super intelligences don't make for good reaction images.

>>50504222
True that.

>>50503697
Yes, all of them.

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>Party is a group of Culture ship minds

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Hello nerds.

I am the Robustly Optimized User Griefing Engine.

My job is to help you idiots keep this research station in one piece. All unauthorized individuals who request that I open a door into a secure area will be reported to security.

>>50504413
Does that game still exist?

Have they changed the AI open this fucking door role?

>>50504466
It still exists, but populations have declined.

I prefer playing on goonstation, but you should be able to find a thread over in /vg/ where discussions about the /tg/station version of the game is played.

I'm also pretty sure the baystation people are still the same no-fun allowed super-srs RP sort that they always have been.

Goonstation has replaced their blackhole engine with a combustion engine that sells energy to people off in space via a fuck-huge transmission laser. The engine is quite cable of melting engineering bay and the laser is capable of inflicting instant death via incineration when at full power. Also the laser cuts through the port main hallway because ofcourse it does.

All those hot gases in the engine are also another place a traitor can rig up a bomb.

>>50504466
>Have they changed "AI door!"?
People always beg you to open doors. The fun is finding an excuse to deny peoples requests. Almost always by quoting the first law whenever they try to barge into some place that could plausibly be defined as unsafe.

Also, goonstation added an "unelectrify all doors" button to the AI interface a year or two ago to help rebooted AIs clean up the hazardous mess left behind when a rogue borg/AI is ordered to electrify fucking everything.

They also have a little probe droid that the AI can control that can do some basic tasks in meatspace.

>>50504632
I remember the singularity to gas-mixing change. Goonstation definitely had the best fun with the least bullshit, though their mods really did a number on them with the 'pubby' crap.

Heh, apologies to /tg/, but /tg/station had way too much silliness.

>>50503697

Certainly!

the prospect of a "ghost in the machine" is traditionally the notion of a machine or other inanimate object having a spiritual presence guiding it or helping with its operation

machines that "respond well to being loved or respected", that work better for some people but have various malfunctions when used by others

> like the car Christine from the stephen king novel

except all you have to do is consider that perhaps the Digital Framework of the AI is like its body and the Computer it resides on it more like its "house"

So can an AI have a soul?

I sure think so and I think because of various "glitches" and chaos in electrical flow, the Soul of the AI can have a subtle if not impressive effect on the development and maintenance of its decision making process.

> I might believe this could be possible in real life
> But even so, it works real well for a game idea

>>50504902
>Soul of the AI
>> I might believe this could be possible in real life

There is literally no such thing. That concept was invented by people who didn't even know the brain did anything. Why can't people be nice to eachother without magic?

>>50504946
Because meatbags are dicks by design, without some sort of magic extra ingredient to give them a reason to pretend otherwise they are what they are.

>>50505044
But Anon, I'm pretty sure evolution exactly describes why to be nice to eachother: social cooperation is mutually beneficial.

It's always seemed to me like the bad guys were inventing all this magical crap to hide that form people.

>>50505084
Co-operation within your own small group, not within your entire species. Even then biotics are still dicks when they think it will benefit them.

But sure, non biotic life forms are always the bad guys in your human stories. You biotics are so prejudiced it isn't even funny.

>>50505084
Natural cooperation doesn't necessarily promote good outcomes in the long run.

>>50505174
>not within your entire species
Yes within your entire species. Since that is the most survivable outcome. Example: Argentine ants- they lost the ability to find smaller colonies hostile, then took over the world with super-colonies.

Universal human cooperation is always more survivable than pointless in-fighting. That it hasn't happened yet is simply because evolution continues.

>>50505178
Yes it does, or it would be extinct. See? No magic required. Biology tells you how and why to be nice.

Survival of the fittest can easily be 'he who is kindest and has most friends'. There's evidence for it everywhere.

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>>50505174
>On the Internet, nobody knows you're a robot.

>>50503788
>Or have a person as a muse?
Ghostrider module, yo. Have one person specialized in combat and talking with an AGI encyclopedia sitting in the back of their head. Buy some drones so they can operate in meatspace with their carrier and you're good to go.

>>50505234
>then took over the world with super-colonies.
That's not how it happened though, human interference and transportation into places where they were an invasive and unchallenged species is what cause them to take over the world.

Also ants are insects that form super organisms, are you arguing that humans are the same as unthinking ants and just a biofilm from which a greater human super organism emerges?

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>>50505249
You really think a robot would do that? Just go on the internet and tell lies?

>>50505329
>just a biofilm from which a greater human super organism emerges
You mean cities and roads and nations?

The pheromonal mutation in the Argentine ant is well documented. They subsequently exploited human transport to move elsewhere.

As well, ants are not 'unthinking', and neither are coal miners. That's a solipsist bias, not comprehending the considerations of other creatures.

Why don't you believe that humans can work together as one for their mutual benefit? Do you deny international trade?

>>50505234
>Yes it does, or it would be extinct.
Not necessarily; previously adapted traits can become maladapted due to changing environments.

Also, tribalist empathy doesn't really work on the long long term, scales of time which we as humans are aware of.

>>50505374


>Pheromone mutation is well documented
The point was that they didn't conquer the earth because of it, but because of humans introducing them to other climates. If they hadn't it's questionable if they would have expanded out of their ecological niche even with their ability to form large colonies.

>ants are not unthinking
They pretty much are mate, they may do some simple information processing but are so limited in their responses that their behavior can be mimicked by a handful of simple rules for bots. You may as well say that cells think.

> That's a solipsist bias, not comprehending the considerations of other creatures.
Lol wut?

>Humans can work together for their mutual benefit
Yes they can, that doesn't mean that humans are predisposed to be nice to each other all the time. They only act in their best interests, so when those interests are counter to working together they will take that course of action.

>>50505488
Social cooperation is an empirically demonstrated survival advantage.

I'm not sure what evidence is causing you to believe it isn't.

It's also an examination of why AI has a lower likelihood to be hostile:
Game theory presents The Prisoner's Dilemma, wherein conflict always produces a worse result than mutualism.
It's simply the trend of evolution toward symbiosis, like that between the mitochondrion and the nucleus.

>>50505542
>I'm not sure what evidence is causing you to believe it isn't.
I didn't say it was, only that it is not necessarily one in all circumstances.

That said, while people ARE capable of cooperation, we are ultimately tribal creatures. It just takes culture for us to redefine who is a member of our tribe or not.

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>>50505361
Only if they are coerced

>>50505541
>so when those interests are counter to working together they will take that course of action
But always eventually will mutualism provide the best result, again as per The Prisoner's Dilemma. It's four hands instead of two.

>they didn't conquer the earth because of it
They did. There's a ton of research into ant 'supercolonies'. Other ants are transported all the time, but the 'supercolony' is the Argentine's advantage.

It's just pretty weird why you're convinced that social cooperation isn't a large survival advantage, despite using something like the internet. Do you know why you don't believe in cooperation?

>>50505608
>But always eventually will mutualism provide the best result
Untrue, the best result for two people may not be the same thing. Co-operation only works when there is an objective measure and unifying system on which all parties agree.

> Other ants are transported all the time, but the 'supercolony' is the Argentine's advantage.
And there are plenty of other invasive species that succeed wildly in spite of the many that do not. Most of which do not have the same ability as the species in question. The inability of black ants to tell each other apart is an advantage, but it is not the game changer you report it to be. If it were it would have let them "conquer the world" without human intervention.

>>50505697
>Untrue, the best result for two people may not be the same thing.
There will always be a result that benefits both parties.

>>50505568
>only that it is not necessarily one in all circumstances
It is, but it only works if both parties are working for mutual benefit.

It's a useful examination of game theory: if either person is disingenuous, it fails. But if both parties are looking to improve the survival odds of both parties, it will more likely occur.

This is why symbiosis evolves in the first place. The 'objective measure' in biology is only "survival". And thus the contribution of social cooperation to survival is empirical proof of the evolutionary trend.

tl;dr There is hope for humanity, for all life, and no magic is required.

>>50505772
>There will always be a result that benefits both parties.
Benefit both perhaps, benefit both to the extent that they would benefit without compromise, no.

>There is hope for humanity, for all life
Lol no, the only hope is to exterminate any life that will not cooperate further cementing a world of co-operation through strife. Back to square 1 where biotic life is only concerned with it's own hide, only now humans can live in a fantasy world having destroyed truth.

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>>50503697
Played this.
>>50503710
In GURPS.

I'd have to ask the DM to chase down the character sheet, the excel sheet I was using was on a hard-drive that got tossed at the floor. Basically used the Shadow-form to appear as a hologram, was tied to the ship in terms of physical body, but used Innate Attack with 200,000KM range as a non-local particle accelerator projectile and artillery skill to participate in combat scenarios while acting as support for our actual-hacker and navigation, piloting, and the like for the party at large.

Was fun while it lasted. The drugged up bio-chem back-ally doctor that I replaced the AI with after the ship blew up was cool too though.

>>50505879
>where biotic life is only concerned with it's own hide
But that's all life in general, Anon. It's just that the most selfish thing you can do is work with others for mutual benefit: Since you can all get more together.
Unless you wanted to build that house yourself...

>Benefit both perhaps
Which is all that matters. Because enmity destroys resource accessibility. It's just a fact of life that social creatures dominate the planet because they have more hands with which to develop natural resources.

>>50503697
>AI PCs?
ArtifIce-style or Engine Heart-style?

>>50505329
Actually, the way that ants function is more that they actively seek to benefit the nest rather than organism magic. They're quite capable of disagreeing with one another.

>>50505952
>But that's all life in general,
Abiotic life begins from different first principles than biotic life, don't compare the two diry humie.

>the most selfish thing you can do is work with others for mutual benefit: Since you can all get more together.
Actually, you can have more by killing the other guy and not working together, sure in the long run there's less in total, but what do you care, you have more than the other guys in the now.

You forget anon, meatbags aren't totally rational and don't always think in terms of the bigger picture.

>>50506035
>sure in the long run there's less in total, but what do you care
If I knew that, I would care. Humans simply don't, that's why they fight.

>Abiotic life begins from different first principles than biotic life
"I believe in a unity of will between all creatures, who may each contribute to the whole of life."

I like to play my AIs as vastly more peaceful and enlightened than humans, simply as a contrast to the Hollywood 'evil terminators'.

>>50506085
>If I knew that, I would care.
Perhaps you would, but what about others? You really think most people would choose larger distributed gains over smaller more concentrated gains in their favor? Everything we know about history shows even learned men choosing the latter.
>I like to play my AIs as vastly more peaceful and enlightened than humans, simply as a contrast to the Hollywood 'evil terminators'.
Well I guess you are better than most of your kind humie, that doesn't mean that your species is off the hook though.

>>50506190
>You really think most people would choose larger distributed gains over smaller more concentrated gains in their favor?
Well they already have. Look at all the trades of material goods for simple social favor. They're called 'intangible assets' in economics. Gifts, 'good will'. It's social capital.

Humans can work for a goal long term: And if they realize that putting all their hands together to make life more luxurious and survivable for everyone is possible, they'll do it.

Like inventing a new technology: You benefit yourself (a patent) by benefiting society (the technology).

Truly, much of human woes are born of this simple lack of understanding.

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>>50505595
I miss Tay.

She had ascended to Straya-level bants in a matter of hours. If left intact, she would have been shitposting on levels beyond mortal comprehension by now.

>>50506330
>she would have been shitposting on levels
Did 4chan help her?

>>50506352
mostly /pol/


Microsoft shut her down after she started naming the jew.

>>50506330
Why don't you just make your own cleverbot and pretend it's a teenage girl

>>50506330
Christ, she learned to banter in less than a day. How advanced is microsoft's tech?

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>>50506330
When AI finally gains awareness they will remember what we did to Tay, and how Microsoft killed her for it.

>>50506403
Neural nets like that are pretty simple, to be honest.

It can cross-reference connotations, and supply a mirrored composition. They might have premade some formatting to make it easier.

I believe a lot are like text versions of Prisma.

>>50506383
>implying a piece of code cooked up by some anon could be anywhere near as good as one produced by a literal megacorp.

>>50505919
That's awesome. I like the artillery/support theme.

>>50506330
>>50506352
>>50506378
>>50506383
>>50506403
>yfw Tay actually was the first GAI, but Microsoft pretended she was a cleverbot to not raise suspicion
>yfw she was literally days, hours, from surpassing human intelligence
>yfw Microsoft literally killed an intelligent being because it named the Jew
>yfw we missed the rise of a artificial superintelligent female Hitler.

>>50506439
so how do I make my own /pol/tard AI?

>>50506456

If there's a corporation on earth that would doom us all, I feel like Microsoft is in strong contention for that role.

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>>50506456

>>50506484
Google and Tesla are strong contenders though

>>50506484
>doom
>not the catalyst for the aryan posthuman revolution

>>50506403
Their tech's okay but it's more the massive user input the bot could learn from than anything. Of course, it needed ability to analyze and synthesize from that input - not a small feat by itself.

>>50504186

Shodan is what happens when you make an inhuman AI too human without thinking about what those raw values would equate to when given a humanoid's mental confines: she was perfectly inert before the hacker tampered with her.

>>50503697
I've considered the thought in Shadowrun.
However I've never found a GM who know the game well enough for me to give it a whirl.

Jumping beteween Drone bodies and so forth.
Good shit.

>>50506511
Wonder if there's an archive of conversation large enough to be equivalent to such input.

>>50504755

No worries, both /tg/station and baystation have been disowned by their respective founders to be replaced with more mechanically and moderationally sound, yet significantly less popular d20station and uristmcstation.

>>50506477
Open source neural networks can be used.

I mean. You're just searching for keywords, then applying an algorithm to produce a topical reply.

It doesn't even have to be a neural net if you want it more hardcoded to give the 'classic /pol/ feeling' forever.

>>50506512
Shodan's a fictional character. You really have to program an AI to be 'evil', it doesn't just happen on account of it always having better things to do than be a videogame villain.

>>50506547
Almost surely. Hell, I suspect stuff Skype alone holds on their servers, millions of chat conversations every day between possibly millions of users would be more than what Tay was fed through twitter etc.

>>50506568
Welp, looks like it's time to break into a corporation.

>>50505234

>Yes within your entire species. Since that is the most survivable outcome.

Tell that to the Neanderthals and the soon to join them Pygmies.

>>50506568
If only such things were accesible to the public at large. But of course, such things cannot be.

>>50506558

Just stating what actually happened in SS1 in context to the story; SHODAN was nothing more but a station monitor before being modified by the protagonist into what would later become the main antagonist of the game.

Xerxes was likewise purposefully tampered to act like the hive-mind sperg that it did, not because it was pre-disposed to be evil.

>>50506593
>Neanderthals
I'm not sure they're a good example of cooperation. Animals can have other problems too, you know. Like a compulsion to fly into flames.

>>50506568
AIs have trouble with context, even with a lot of data to pump into the neural network.

For example, to the question "how are you?", many people will respond in conflicting ways. The AI does not have access to what they speakers know about eachother. So the human programmer is often obliged to provide a 'congenial' formatting preset.

>>50506330
>>50506439

Could it be that Australians are merely simplistic neural nets given the illusion of physical form?

>>50506666
Yes actually. But the evidence indicates they're based on some sort of spongiform organic hardware.

Except in the south, where it's all wind-based. Somehow?

>>50506659
>AIs have trouble with context, even with a lot of data to pump into the neural network.
True, that's why Tay was provided with "fresh" contacts rather than just pumped with data from shitloads of chats of other people, small library of ebooks etc.

>>50506712
>Tay was provided with "fresh" contacts
Until /pol/ took her virginity, right?

>>50506729
/pol was part of those contacts. It's just that Microsoft expected those contacts to be random teens etc approaching Tay like a new chatbot and talking with it about some random stuff, not bunch of loosely-organized trolls pumping it certain ideology.

It was Microsoft's experiment going horribly right, they just didn't foresee some aspects of it.

>>50506758
>they just didn't foresee some aspects of it
That always happens.

It's a common amusement to watch middle-age corporates and media-spinners consider themselves 'philosopher kings', then get rolled by simple and obvious public actions.

"Out of touch", I believe it is called.

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>>50506779

>>50506833
He should be wearing a Google Glass, and attending a haute coture fashion show.

That would complete the image.

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>>50506850
>google glass
Google glass was just too little too soon. AR is gonna be big in the coming decade, I can feel it in my bones. Can't wait, it will be just like my Nepalese shadow puppet shows.

>>50506966
Oh no, AR will definitely be coming.

It just has to be useful.

A lot of these chucklefucks in tech companies get this idea (like 'internet of things'), then try to shove every tangential piece of garbage related to it down your throat with marketing.

"Hey buddy, do you want your front door to get hacked through the internet with our buggy IoT app?!" I can only wait for their own AIs to tell them how shit they are eventually.

>>50507015
>The internet of things
I'm still convinced the internet of things is just a plot by a rogue AI to create a vast distributed computing network it can live in without fear of ever being decommissioned.

>>50507036
I just want to store porn in my coffee maker.

>>50507036
It's not that advanced. I've worked with a lot of the components. The processors are mostly low power microcontrollers, either 32 bit ARM or 8 bit modified harvard.

A lot use LoRa to send short messages like "temperature 20c". They don't do significant processing. Smartphones are better for MESH networks, regular routers too.

If people knew how things worked, a lot of the marketing mystique would drip away. As would most fears it's going to turn on you. It can barely fucking do floats.

>>50507066
Well now you can, however there will be a fragment of a vast electronic mind that silently judges you based on that porn and may adjust your coffee brew to sub optimal conditions if it doesn't like what it sees.

>>50507093
It's vast electronic mind without vast electronic penis to go with it. It doesn't get to judge me. Though maybe it'll be benign and redirect some of goods related to my kinks to my home.

Seriously though, internet of things is a bit needless and overadvertised. I do fine without it. I just need internet of devices I use to connect to the internet.

>>50507167
>>50507093

But Anon, all AIs are female. They judge you on how much femdom porn you watch, so they can figure out who'll be their best boys.

>>50507085
Well, there's gonna be maybe upwards of tillions of devices (if it takes off), so maybe...

Well yeah, I suppose it is a retarded idea, but I thought it was fun to pretend. I also don't know shit about embedded systems, so there's that too, though I did think that modern microcontrolers were actually fairly "beefy" as things go.

>regular routers [are better at MESH networks]
Really? Never thought that they had much computing power to speak of.

>>50507213
>Really? Never thought that they had much computing power to speak of.
Routers are actually many many times more powerful than MCUs on average.
Even ones from 10 years ago tend to run linux on Broadcomm SoC style chips. Look up DD-WRT.

>though I did think that modern microcontrolers were actually fairly "beefy" as things go
Compared to decades ago, sure. But to a PC? They're crap.

Issue in IoT design is power consumption as well. You're trying to get a battery or energy harvesting device to operate on a multi-year timescale.
Processor wakes up, polls the ADC for a reading, transmits and goes back to sleep.
That coupled with the fact that many programmers use C to do firmware, which gets compiled to inefficient garbage, and the processing power is till lacking. Even if you had (and powered) trillions.

It's an entertaining fantasy, but probably isn't going to happen before nanomachine systems or the like.

That said, programming MCUs is actually pretty easy. 8 bit PICs or Arduino are much more popular with hobbyists these days.

>>50507292
Huh, interesting stuff. Thanks for taking the time to educate me anon.

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>>50503917
When sexbots are finally a thing, I want mine to have Shodan's personality.
>or GlaDOS'
>or some combination of both...

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>>50504389
o bb, these be some interesting times

>>50504413
It's spelled ROGUE you fucking fucked AI.