Warhammer 40,000 general

The Dark Eldar strike first and strike fast!

>>50470037
ML3, spell familiar. If you want to go the choppy route, Disc+Spawn+Seer's Bane is quite deadly, if extremely expensive.

You need somewhere to put them. One of the big issues with Thousand Sons/low unit count armies is that they make target selection easy. Taking a Warherd to hide casters in will help ameliorate that, as would any high-model count mortal ally (Lost and the Damned formation or a detachment of Renegades and Heretics).

Power selection will largely be dependent on what the rest of the army has and what the opponent has. Ectomancy against enemy hordes, Heretek against armor spam. Biomancy is great is melee is likely, and Telepathy is always a good option.

>>50469847
There's a lot that can be done with all the traitor legions. Sadly, there's only so much that can be done with Formations/Detachments, especially when GW decides to play it conservatively. Expect lots of "benefits" that really should be errata (like allowing you to throw all your dice at expanded chaos disciplines) and stuff that doesn't really do much (I hope Night Lords are ready for Fear).

>>50470221
Orks coming in at I2

>>50470221
>strike first
Dark Eldar don't have Always Strikes First.

Though what do you think would happen if ASF was ported over (and given to both flavours of Eldar)

Would that help DE? What about making Bashees / Storm Guardians good*

>>50470292
>buffing CWE
No. Nothing in CWE should be getting better unless if comes with nerfs to the OP shit.

Not that ASF really changes things that much for them. Banshees are already usually striking first, their issue is that they have no good way of surviving on the way into the assault.

>>50470292
>giving CWE even more good rules
No thank you. That's the last thing this game needs

>>50470335
>>50470341

What about only DE then?

>>50470365
That's fine

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>win a game as Orks
>no one believes you
Such is life in /40kg/

Is it just me, or are people seriously undervaluing the flexibility of psykers in TSons?
>Facing hordes?
>Pyromancy.
>Facing tanks?
>Telekinesis.
>Facing elites?
>Psychic shriek nigga!

Am I missing something here?

I was wondering if anyone had an .epub reader recommendation.

>>50470428
Readium

>>50470421
A little. But you need to keep in mind randomized powers can be quite a limiting factor.

>>50470221
Sure as hell dont strike hard though

>>50470365
dark eldar are pretty much always striking first anyways because of their high initiative, and melee (and charges) aren't as completely central to gameplay as it was in fantasy

little changes

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>>50470469
Archon, please...

>>50470421
It's not as doom and gloom as people think.

Can all Sorcerers (including squad Sargents) generate powers from Traitor's Hate?

If so adds a lot of tactical flexibility to the squads.

>>50470511

>Can all Sorcerers (including squad Sargents) generate powers from Traitor's Hate?

All sorcerers except Rubric Marine Aspiring Sorcerers(only ML1).

>>50470420
We believe you, we just know you didn't face anything remotely challenging.

>>50470421
Psykers can't do everything. Every Warp Charge spent killing is a Warp Charge not spent keeping things alive or moving things around. Being forced to throw a die at Change also limits their flexibility somewhat, as does losing their Primaris.

Rubrics of both varieties are quite limited in what they can effectively engage (basically just MEQ's in the open), fairly slow, and not as durable as you might think. A 4++ (or even a 3++) is great for protecting against low AP stuff, but regular rubrics die quite quickly to massed small arms fire.

>>50470421
It's not the new meta, but it certainly isn't as garbage as the more pessimistic claim.

>>50470428
Google Play Books if you want to read them on android.

>>50470511
>>50470544
>>50470580
How about taking generic CSM (maybe + generic Sorc) instead of TSons for troops?

>>50470650
At that point you should just run non-Thousand Sons entirely and MAYBE run one of the Sorcerer spam formations as allies.

Has anyone posted a download to WoM yet?

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Sup /tg/, I'm new as fuck. I've been passingly interested in 40k lore for a while now, but I finally decided to take the plunge and start buying some minis (entirely for modelling purposes, I don't know anyone who plays and my closest game shop is an hour's drive one-way and the staff are dicks) and learning a bit more in-depth stuff.

Is there a resource anywhere for going into the minutiae of space marine armor? I bought a tactical squad box and I see at least three (but probably four) types of power armor on the sprues. I come from a military modelling background, so I'm pretty autistic about small details and stuff, and I'd like to model a squad that actually make a degree of sense both in their equipment, and in the squad composition.

Also jesus christ GW's prices are murder I'd feel like I had to call the cops and report a rape if I'd actually have given $50 for this box.

>>50470691

Thousand Sons is a good legion tactic to take in a CAD if you are running terminators, warp talons or obliterators.

>>50470791
SM Codex fluff and especially the Horus Heresy book fluff has tons on this.

>>50470421

The problem isn't the psychers Exalted sorcerers are great, it's just Rubric squads are ML1 sorcerers who have to roll on Tzeentch.

So you can't customize and tailor what powers you want for the grunt squads. They are also expensive as hell.

>>50470650
Then you aren't playing Thousand Sons. Your playing CSM w/ a Sorcerer who can afraid of things and run away.

The problem is Thousand Sons are too expensive to be good. Everything they do can be done by another unit for much cheaper, except sitting still and not dying in melee. They excel at sitting still and not dying in melee.

If you are running 3 squads for troops, that is 450 for 15 guys. For reference Space Marines can bring twice that many for 420pts. You can't bring enough of them to effectively control the board with firepower.

>>50470791
>What is google

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Power_Armour

https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Power_Armour

>>50470650
Tzaangors were made to pad out the bodycount, and they're fluffy as hell too being that they've always lived on the planet of sorcerers and served the Thousand Sons in older fluff.

>>50470791
Welcome to the hobby Anon! In terms of the power armour provided in the box and it's lore, all the parts are compatable with each other so you don't actually have to worry about that. Plus you can't actually make a full suit of any specific mark besides VII.

If you want in depth shit on Astartes power armour, go here http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Power_Armour because I can't be arsed to go through all that and put it in lamans terms for you.

Whats the best Malcador-chassis vehicle? I run an artillery+zombies heavy Renegades and Heretics list and want a fun centrepiece to run out every now and then.

Is it possible/a good idea to form a CAD of TSons?

>>50470821
The lexicanum page only covers the broad strokes of it. Like, for example- there are helmets that are unmistakably the Acquila-pattern helmet, but then there are a few that have two pipes running to the frowny-face respirator deal on the front on either side, and another that has rivets or armor studs on the brow. Are these just cosmetic differences, or do they signify a different mark of armor?

does GW even have internal consistency on this stuff or is it just whatever looks cool

>>50470880
Possible, yes. It's not the most optimal army, so don't expect to win any tournaments, but if you're playing casual games you should be fine.

>>50470791
Here's the break down.

>MkI, used by the proto space marines, the Thunder Warriors. Not true power armor.
>MkII, oldest and most powerful, best looking. The first true power armor system, had the most mobility of any mark due to it's ringed plating.
>MkIII, reinforced MkII that led to the creation of terminator armor due to heavily increased weigt. Used primarily in boarding and close quarters.
>MkIV, simplified MkII, but most efficient power usage and most complicated power system. Extremely advanced systems, extremely hard to make compared to other marks.
>MkV, duct tape armor. Used only in dire circumstance or your chapter is poor.
>MkVI, second only to
MkV in weakness of the armor plating, has the second most advanced systems, with MkIV having the most advanced. Has iconic beak.
>MkVII, lost the advanced systems of MkVI, but increased the armor and is able to use parts from MkVI.
>MkVIII, newest mark, has the second highest armor rating, with only MkIII having more. Not compatible with MkVI.
>Only MkVII is compatible with MkVI and MkVIII. MkII compatible with MkIII. MkIV compatible with MkV.

>>50470876
Probably the giant Titan gatling gun version. All the others just bring in slightly better stuff than what you already have, but that one's a proper baneblade-level weapon.

>>50470883
Custom variations, reapirs and modifications, different versions from different Forgeworlds, combinations of various suits, etc, there's a lot of variation.

>>50470904
Does one get the same benefits when using CAD instead of the WoM decurion?

>>50470883
Subtle changes in design are normally due to the armours being made at different Forgeworlds who implement different practices. It might also be repairs made by the chapters Techmarines and them putting some unique flare to the pieces as they do so.

It's probably also that too, and I'm glad. Let's face it, if every model looked exactly the same it would be boring as shit

I've been feeling a will to try 40k again after quite a few years out of it, I've not played the game since 6th edition, and even then it was just a couple of games. The last time I played a lot was 4th I think, just after eldar came out and falcons were indestructible.

Anyway, unlike my teenage self, which I don't think ever had a fully based and painted army, I want to play with fully painted models this time around. I've heard a lot about 1000 point games mitigating a lot of the formation/allies bullshit going around (although last time I played, my store didn't seem hugely competitive/net-listy) so I've set that as my main goal.


+ HQ (75pts) +

····Canoness (75pts) [Bolt Pistol, Combi-Melta]

+ Troops (302pts) +

····Battle Sister Squad (145pts) [2x Battle Sister, Battle Sister with Flamer, Battle Sister with Heavy Flamer]
······Immolator [Twin-Linked Multi-Melta]
······Sister Superior [Boltgun, Combi-Plasma]

····Battle Sister Squad (157pts) [3x Battle Sister, Battle Sister with Flamer, Battle Sister with Heavy Flamer]
······Immolator [Twin-Linked Heavy Flamer]
······Sister Superior [Boltgun, Combi-Plasma]

+ Fast Attack (370pts) +

····Dominion Squad (185pts) [4x Dominion with Meltagun]
······Dominion Superior [Bolt Pistol, Combi-Melta, Upgrade to Veteran Dominion Superior]
······Immolator [Twin-Linked Multi-Melta]

····Dominion Squad (185pts) [4x Dominion with Meltagun]
······Dominion Superior [Bolt Pistol, Combi-Melta, Upgrade to Veteran Dominion Superior]
······Immolator [Twin-Linked Multi-Melta]

+ Heavy Support (250pts) +

····Exorcist (125pts)

····Exorcist (125pts)

>>50470915
>Terminator armor patterns:
>Cataphractii Tactical Dreadnought Armor is the strongest and oldest variant, patterned off of MkIII armor. Is also the heaviest variant.
>Tartaros TDA is the lightest and fastest variant, though this is a relative term, while retaining the same protection as Indomitus armor. Patterned off of MkIV.
>Indomitus TDA is the most common pattern, and is patterned off of MkV and early MkVI.

>>50470883

There's a few standard marks of armor, generally marks 2-7. Because of the extensive repairs done over time, lots of these armor pieces develop differences from others of the same mark. Not only that, but many suits have become chimeric, with perhaps several armors being used or cannibalized to make a functioning suit of armor out of many damaged or unsalvageable ones.

Of course, if you want to check out bits sites, especially stores on eBay or even some of the Forge World armor sets, there's enough uniformity to satisfy even the most salty autist. Could the Chapter is simply very well supplied when it comes to their armor marks, or makes an effort to promote uniformity among the ranks as part of the Chapter's demeanor, if you need fluff justification for your dudes.

>>50470984
The GK also have their own special versions.

>Drop out of 40k around the release of 7th edition
>Randomly visit GW's site while bored
>Plastic TSons are a thing
>Heresy Prospero book finally
>Death Watch a thing
Well shit. Time to make a trip up to the attic to dig my old shit out it seems

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>>50470791

Marks I and II: Early Crusade era, rare in M41

Mark III: Heavy, tough, mid Crusade era, very common though went out of production post-heresy. Chaos(and probably Imperial Fists, Iron Hands, Salamanders) are the armies have the most in M41.

Mark IV: Late Crusade era. Horus ensured the traitorous elements of his own legion and the Word Bearers would get dibs on it, for an advantage in the upcoming rebellion. Chaos uses it a lot in M41, it's the armor the Raptor/Warp Talon kit has.

Mark V: Late Crusade era, mainly manufactured during the heresy, very good armor design. The Chaos Space Marine kit is this, mixed with parts from older marks here and there.

Mark VI: Lightweight stealth power armor. Late Crusade era, pioneered by Raven Guard, later bought by other loyalist chapters in limited quantity.

Mark VII: Heresy era, developed by loyalists, became ubiquitous. The standard Tactical Marine armor.

Mark VIII: Post-heresy by thousands of years. Grenadier armor, rare and expensive, only used in large quantities by Deathwatch and Minotaurs.

Most armor is mixed and matched since parts tend to be cross-compatible. In general Chaos legions use III through V, loyalist chapters use VI through VIII, while renegades and loyalist veterans use a mix.

>>50470979
If you're doing Immolator's, you're better off spending the 10 points you spent on VSS for the dominions on a Laud Hailer (Only if you have the points to spare after the other changes). Mathematically better for getting your AoF off than the extra +1LD.
I'd remove the combi-plasma on your BSS and use 2x flamer instead of f/hf as you can't do both templates at the same time with different weapons.
I'd also try to get the points for Celestine over the Cannoness. At that point range she's brutal.

I'd do something like this:
Celestine (135)

BSS -2xF, Immo TLMM (130)
BSS -2xF, Immo TLMM (130)

Dominion -4MG, Combi-M, Immo TLMM (175)

Dominion -4MG, Combi-M, Immo TLMM (175)

Exorcist (125)
Exorcist (125)
995 total

I actually can't tell if mark V armour is a distinct mark or a set of DIY instructions.

Hi people, looking to model up a libby for a friend's Christmas present for his deathwatch. What's the best model for doing this and still be allowed to pick the shoulder pad? Thanks in advance.

>>50471045

Edit: I actually might have been confused about Mark IV and Mark V, Mark IV is the really good one

>>50470928
You get the Thousand Sons detachment benefits (+1 Invuln while blessed, reroll to hit in CC with wolves, free VotLW, can roll all on Change), but not the Grand Coven benefits (Reroll Warlord and Perils, cast one additional spell per turn). The additional cast will usually be worthless thanks to Tzeentch Primaris, but reroll Perils will be clutch when it saves a 250 point Exalted Sorcerer from blibbing out of existence while trying to turn on Force.

>>50471067

That does look like it squeezes a lot more in, cheers.

I didn't know about the template thing either, I can't remember if I've read through the 7th ed rule book now that I think about it.

>>50471136

Additional cast lets Aspiring Sorcerers do stuff like:
>Doombolt a Vindicator
>if you kill it Firestorm something else >otherwise Force your squad to protect them from return fire

>>50471107
Kitbash it from anything you want and convert up a psychic hood.
https://thefang40k.wordpress.com/2011/09/28/quick-and-easy-psychic-hood-conversion/

Hey, any thoughts on using Gal Vorbak as counts as Obliterators?
Seem easy enough to green-stuff a few heavy weapons on for a simple conversion.

>>50470421
I wouldn't really describe telekinesis as anti-tank powers anon.

Also unless you bring Ahriman and 3 other Psykers you only harness charges on a 4+.

Also all of your psykers are still locked into having Tzeentch's firestorm as their primaris which is fucking awful.

In-fact, overall Tzeentch sorcerers get very little over regular CSM. You trade being able to get a free power that is actually useful in exchange for rerolling on perils and potentially an extra +1 for harnessing warp charges if you take an extra formation on top of your overly expensive core.

In fact, all the formations here mean 1ksons are even worse than fucking generic imperial psykers who harness charges on a 2+...

So what army should I use for a melee oriented army? I know that the current edition is a shooty edition with melee being gimped, but I'm playing for fun® .

Any suggestions?

>>50471229

>unless you bring Ahriman and 3 other Psykers you only harness charges on a 4+

there's one that doesn't require him, War Cabal iirc

>>50471252
Orks, they're a melee race.

>>50471252
Melee Tau

>>50471252

Genestealer Cults or Khorne Daemons

>>50471165
Yeah, it's frustrating for sisters. I've found it quite fun running 4x Rending HF in a Repressor though with Retributors.
Have a think about if you *need* 14 meltas +2d6 s8ap1 shots though. You might need more anti-infantry options. If you think that might be the case, Seraphim to go with Celestine would be good instead of one of the exorcists, and can free up enough points to give your Doms Repressors (which have enough fire points for them to all shoot out of without getting out, free dozer blade, and is AV13 on the front, but has a HF instead of a MM.)

Sisters are fun in current meta though. Once you get more comfy with the army you can start taking the even worse options from the codex like Pen Engines and Repentia.

>>50471229
What's the deal with the Tzeentch primaris? Don't they get to roll on the table?

>>50471287

The Tzeentch primaris is Strength D6+1, 3" blast, 24" range, deals extra S3 hits if it kills something. In other words, highly random and not particularly useful for anything except killing GEQ.

>>50471286
>>50471165
Oh, the other cool thing about picking up Celestine is the 10LD within 12" of her. Plus if she goes down you auto-pass all leadership tests (even acts of faith) for a turn.
She also has a heavy flamer that can be used in combat to make her S5 ap3 which is tight.

>>50471252
Genestealer Cults. Pure strain Genestealers and Acolyte Hybrids are both fucking nasty in CC and cult ambush gives you the tools to actually get there. They also have extremely solid ally choices for a non-Imperial force.

The only major downside is pretty much everything is paper, but luckily your guys are dirt cheap and your characters get auto "look out sir" at all times.

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How do we fix it?
Forgeworld is working on an update for it.
What do you think they'll do to it?

>>50471087
Both. As of FW's HH series, the studded MkV that the Charcarodons and other poorfags wear is Standard Production MkV, whereas armor marks that have been cobbled together at massively reduced efficiency is Non-Production MkV. Only Iron Hands Forge Fathers and Iron Warriors Warsmiths, as well as the very best Forge Lords could get Non-Production MkV working as good as any other suit, though it was hard for them to do.

>>50471436
Cheapen the cost and add a redundant defensive ability?

>>50471252
GSC, Carcharodons, or Khorne Daemons.

>>50471436

Doesn't need much.

The biggest issue is it costs 100 points to upgrade an ion cannon to a d-gun, but...

The D-gun also uses up the capacity it woulda used to carry nearly 200 points worth of free drones.

So it spends like 300 points to upgrade an ion cannon to a d-gun.

The fix? Hack the points cost down. That it.

>>50471262
That makes me think, a Kroot army list is even possible?

>>50471229
>generic imperial psykers who harness charges on a 2+...

What generic imperial psyker harnesses on a 2+?

Because all the ones that come to mind are formations and only for 2? Factions.

>>50471529
Psykana Division

Yes it's a formation but it's composed entirely of units you were going to take anyway if you were going to use them

>tfw Commissars make psykers expert daemon summoners

>>50471529
Librarius conclave.
What, formations don't count?

>>50471524
If you use fw you can fill all roles, but it's shiter than orks.

How to equip KDK defiler I just bought?

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>>50471067

You will generally kill more models with the HFlamer over the regular flamer, though.

MEQ you cause more wounds same
MEQ 4+ save you not only cause more wounds, but negate their saves
GEQ causes more wounds and still negates the save

I thought the same thing, but the HFlamer comes out on top.

>>50470979

Here my tried and true 1000 point Sisters army.

That being said, I've been having a lot of success with a plasma+flamer command squad, too.

>>50471551
Generic imperial psykers
Kinda implies that it's generic.

Also only for two factions. No 2+ for any snowflake chapters

It just rubs me the wrong way when the MAJORITY Faction's psykers in the game can't harness on a 2+, yet people use the EXCEPTIONS to justify why theirs should.

>Plus with Familiars CSMs want a 2+ rerollable

>>50471286

The repressor is one of the Sisters units I don't have, but I have always wanted to try heavy flamer rets, something to add to my to do list I guess.

I probably don't need that much melta, but it's hard to say without seeing what the local scene is like.

Once I've got a decent core built up I'm going to try some of the other ecclesiarchy units. I know a lot of Sisters players like to just go pure Soroitas, but the ecclesiarchy side of the codex is just as appealing to me, and gives me a chance to try and make some really John Blanche-esque conversions.

>>50471610
Because the standard rules say you harness on a 4+ and therefore any exceptions to that come from formations/snowflake rules? This isn't hard to grasp.

>>50471599
Yes, but you have to do the flamers seperately. If you cover 5 guys with your heavy flamer and kill 3, your other template can't hit as many. It has to be after the heavy flamer since it isn't the same weapon. If you take two of the same you do both together.

Lets be real, how many 4+ saves are there these days for models you'll be using flamers on too.

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You know, the wording on Tzeentch psykers being able to choose to generate their powers from the Tzeentch table bothers me. Why would it say they can choose to take tzeentch powers when they have to take Tzeentch powers because they're marked?

Pic related

Is CSM just doomed to the fate of a million mediocre supplements that attempt to slap a band-aid over the gaping wound that is their codex?

>>50471587
with a cardboard box and the return receipt.

>>50471717

Given how they didn't really do much to even improve the one old unit in the codex they did touch with this release, I'd have to say yes.

It wouldn't have taken much to fix Rubric Marines and it just baffles my mind how they could screw them up again after 15 years of them being useless.

Simply cut their cost by 5 and make the Aspiring Sorcerer level 2 and allow them to take wargear. That's not too much to ask.

>>50471599

Looks good as well, since I only have 3 multi-melta immolators (the 4th uses the metal parts from the old 2nd edition model)

What is the plasma+flamer squad? It would be nice to try some things that aren't sister/dominions/exorcists.

>>50471226
Meh. Oblits wear Terminator armour. Gal Vorbak look too sleek for that imho.

>>50471725

Already threw out the box.

>>50471702
I've been thinking and interpreting it as,
>exclusivity for rolling gets you the whole dam tree to work with
>only rolling powers from Change?(ex.Aspiring Sorcs)
>a little more flexibility

>>50470979
Combi weapons are a waste of points

>>50471717
I'm a die hard Chaos player but I'm skipping all these supplement books until we get 8th Edition.

>>50471702

Daemon princes would be my guess as why

Haven't been keeping up with 40k for about 2 years now and saw that chaos got some new stuff.

So what's the new meta for CSM's these days?

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>>50471702
>>50471832
>>50471856
Prior to this they could only generate up to half their powers from their God

Can't post from pc so excuse the pic

>>50471667

Hitting 5 with the heavy flamer will kill 1.1 Marines, leaving 4 left for the regular flamer.

10 S4 hits against MEQ is 1.66 wounds

5 S5 and 4 S4 is 1.778

The S5 is also better in more situations.

>>50471788

Drop Celestine, the Seraphim, and the melta bomb and add:

Canoness
Rosarius
Mantle of Ophelia
Combi-Plas

Command Squad x5
[Combi-Plas and Flamer] x4
Hospitalar
Immolator w/TLMM

Note that that each Celestian in the command squad has both a flamer and a combi plas.

You could probably fiddle with points and add an Evicerator to the canoness, which I like to do, but it's optional.

>>50471870
belakor
1-2 cultist squads
heldrake/any vehicle that takes your fancy really
FW shit
large detachment of daemon allies

>>50471906

Oh shit, that makes sense.

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Post yfw Roboute Gulliman wakes up from stasis and it's Alpharius

>>50472002
>implying literally every Primarch isn't Alpharius

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>>50472002
Post yfw alpharius wakes up from stasis and its Guilliman

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>>50472048
>Alpharius wakes up from stasis
>mfw he switched bodies with Guilliman just before he struck the killing blow

>>50472002
I'd be more entertained if all the alpha legion bullshit turned out to be completely off the mark.

>>50471717

You know what unit has been mostly disregarded by the supplements? Chosen.

These guys are literally the vanilla Space Marine Command Squad, except without the ability to take bikes and an apothecary. They have nothing going for them. Kitting them with power weapons is too expensive to be worthwhile, and giving them special/combi weapons? Why not just take Havocs instead for cheaper?

In late 4th and 5th editions they had infiltrate. Chosen in WHFB get a free boon of mutation for the entire squad, ignoring spawn and daemon prince. Why can't they have something like that? Really, anything to make them special and interesting like they're supposed to be would be good.

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>>50471610
>only 2
>only
>two imperial factions
>only

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>>50471791
They're just modeled that way. It's never been said they're in terminator armour. In 3e they had daemonic armour and aura (2+/5++). In 4e they had a 2+ armour and a 5+ Inv. as per their rule, no mention of terminator armour. In 6e it's Fleshmetal (2+ save) and Daemon (5++).

The older models weren't even Marines per se, just cyborgs made out of guns.

>>50472192
I use Skaven stormfiends

>>50472139
>These guys are literally the vanilla Space Marine Command Squad, except without the ability to take bikes and an apothecary
How would a chaos apothecary work?

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ITS ADMECH TIME AGAIN BOYS

We're going to be a real faction soon!

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>>50472002
mfw it's actually Omegon

>>50471252
If you want to be a fuckass, Wulfen and Thunderwolf Cavalry are disgusting. Space Wolves with minimal Wulfen is less dickish.

Orks are bad right now; don't start them.

Genestealer Cult is pretty crazy good at melee like other anon said, but has no staying power: T3 5+.

Khorne Daemonkin can bring some ruckus, especially if you use Fleshhounds instead of Bloodcrushers, since the latter got nerfed pretty hard. Bloodthirsters will be your main murder-machines there.

Daemons generally have great melee options and ways to get into it, plus psychic shenanigans to protect them on their march.

>>50472342
[citation needed]

Now that GSC are a thing, are flamers on Crisis suits more valuable? Shreds them to bits in overwatch, I'd assume.

>>50472440
Flamer suits is still a huge waste, but if you aren't using the hardpoint, 5 points for the wall of death an't that bad.

>>50471791

I thought Obliterator armor was nothing more than regular power armor that's been mutated and had bits of armor the Obliterator has acquired over the years added to it?

If you look at Obliterator Armor, I believe it's way bigger than regular Terminator armor is.

>>50472192

> That image.

The model in the middle reminds me of that Obliterator "Vox" from the novel Daemon World who had a gun barrel in his mouth.

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>>50472423

>>50472476
Age of sigmar steam dwarves

>>50472476
sheeeeit

Steamhead Duardin?

>>50472473
I'm not even sure what I should kit my suits out with. I usually do Missile Pod/Plasma + Fusion Blaster and a Target Lock.

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>>50472500
That's blatantly an Admech cog like on a Techpriest's axe, and the arm itself is very similar to a Sicarian's.

>>50472539
Admech didn't invent the concept of cogs.

>>50472519
I'm not sure what you mean exactly, but if you are mixing within squads then you have a problem. Pick a target and kit the whole squad to take it out.

>>50472192

Those are better than the current oblit models

>>50472519
Missile pods are a waste honestly. take cylic ion blasters and if you want missiles then take missilesides with an sms and counterfire defence system, place it in the centre of the map and watch it mow down geqs and make meqs wonder whether it is worth fighting it in combat. Also run it in a hunter cadre for 12" bs2 support fire that is very toasty, combines well with cyclic ion blaster crisis suits that jsj around the xv88

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>>50472585
No, but it's their symbol and primary motif. Why would GW release shit with cogs on it that isn't Admech? Especially when there is theoretically a combined Admech codex soon and a possibility of more units, considering Admech is a top seller and has a tiny roster with nothing new since their release.

>>50472500

Oh so age of shitmar made the dwarves into stick men to put their own spin on things now?

>>50472600
I'm saying depending on the enemy they get a Missile Pod or a Plasma Rifle AND a Fusion Blaster with a Target lock, unless that's what you mean by I have a problem.

>>50472634
Holy shit that sounds hilarious. I already have one XV88, I need another. Such a good model.

>>50472649
>Why would GW release shit with cogs on it that isn't Admech?

Because GW is retarded?

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Thanks for the help yesterday, guys. This is my list right now. I'm still getting my head around everything.

>>50472649
We have Sigmarines, so how about Sigmechanicus?

Should I bother assembling my dark eldar?

>>50472670
You should generally kit out crisis suits with 2 of one type of weapons.
The most used are fusion blaster teams, plasma guns and cyclic ion blaster teams with up to 3 in each squad. Running more than 3 suits per unit is reserved for commander/farsight bombs. You don't really need more than 1 xv88 for the hunter contingent, do you have an OSC yet? Take plasma rifles on the counter fire xv88 if you want to troll teqs around you as well. Twin linked bs2 = bs3.5 so you will hit once since rapid fire and that teq will either take an invuln save or die.

>>50472500
I can't believe people are still falling for this meme.

It's clearly Ad Mech. This is almost identical to the pistol arm on the Tech Priest Dominus, cog symbol on the key. Looks like the rumours of a combined dex aren't too crazy after all.

>>50472815
Explain the clearly dwarf head in the first teaser.

>>50471524
Nah, melee tau is all about Farsight, Onager Gauntlet Bodyguard, Fusion Blade commander, tarpit with blank suits and shield drones.

>>50472794
Yeah, I usually do a Contingent with Cadre+OSC.
What do people usually run on the 3rd hardslot? Counterfire for the BS2 overwatch?

>>50472857
admech squats

>>50472788

Dark Eldar just got buffed by the new FAQ. Go for it, assemble them.

>>50472891
How?

>>50472955

The FAQ established that poison wounds roll on the D table.

>>50472283
just a combat medic, has syringes full of chaos and shit, gives FNP

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>>50472865
For crisis suits?
I usually take target locks on 2 of the 3
The last guy takes a shield drone a vectored retro thrusters for I4 hit and run: I take this on fusion and ion teams.
I usually take target locks on 2 out of 3 plasma suits and advanced targeting system on the last.
Never upgrade a crisis suit to shas'vre unless in a bomb, it is a waste of points, take sig systems on commanders.
Here is my list right now when I play 1000 point games
I attach the drones to the commander.
1 Stealth teams uses outflank while the other one infiltrates. The xv88 starts on the board while everything else deep strikes. The remora drones are run in vigilance attack formation where the lead one gets +1 to its bs.
I don't run many crisis suits personally as I prefer flyers and formations. Consider picking up a pair of remora drones instead of an xv88, they are one of the cheapest and most annoying flyers in the game.

>>50472476
wasnt this posted on the age of sigmar facebook page though? it looks like a robot hand jangling some keys

>>50472955

Occupants of skimmers dont have to snap shot when Jinking

>>50472955
Passengers no longer fire snapshots when they jink.
Essentially, It's Raider Gunboat time.
Or 4+ cover for your jinking Trueborn w/ Blaster venoms.
Or Jink with a Medusae Transport and still use those AP 3 flamers.
Basically, go nuts. All your units can now take their 4+/3+ cover with them.

>>50472955
Their transports can Jink w/o making the passengers snapfire.

>>50473097

Which is honestly absurd you guys need a severe rebalance which isn't based around

like

using a wildly jinking skyboat as a stable firing platfoorm

>>50473087
Cool, I'll put scourges in a raider and when my opponent asks "why?" I'll be like "because kill yourself" and grab one of his superheavies in each hand and run away.

10/10 commorite strategy

No seriously, how should I build my defiler?

>>50473193
Magnetize it and you can have any outfit.

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>>50472857
>dwarf head
The fuck are you talking about?

>>50473193

Trade it to me.

>>50473156

Dark Eldar aren't the Eldar who need the rebalance, fampai

>>50473156
The thing is, the boats are still paper bloody thin. If they get charged by anything that's gonna do damage they're fucked.
Bolters still glance them, which means that any kind of significant fire power fired at them will hurt like a bitch. It just means that you don't have decide between putting out no firepower and living vs. straight up losing units.
I know it's a little incongruous because of the whole "we can shoot fine even though the boat we are hanging off is doing backflips lol" but I like to think that it's due to the fact that the Kabals do this for a living and a "living" for Eldar is a couple of thousand years. They've just got really good at it.
And it still doesn't make Dark Eldar good. I don't play a ton of tournament tier stuff but I personally feel it moves Dark Eldar up to like high low tier or really low mid tier.

>>50472857
The previews have all been from different models.

>>50473220
>bottom right

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>>50472857
>>50472500
>>50472501
>>50473030
Proof of being AdMech

>>50473193
3 pfists and a scourge, with rage that's 8 S10 attacks on the charge, at I3 unfortunately, but lowering WS of enemies in base by D3. Still got your battle cannon while you slowly lumber into combat

>>50473308
>implying that little insert couldn't just be replaced with a Mechanicus symbol the way AoS Tzaangors get a simple arm conversion sprue to become 40k models

How long do you estimate before Traitor Legions leaks start appearing?

>>50473387
See
>>50473304

>>50470184

Please rate my list, 1850 GSC/Nids

Cult Insurrection

Patriarch- Mastery Level 2, Familiar
Purestrain Genestealers- 7

Neophyte Calvacade
Neophyte Hybrids- 10, 2 Mining Lasers, 2 Grenade Launchers
Neophyte Hybrids- 10, 2 Seismic Cannons, 2 Grenade Launchers
Chimera- Heavy Stubber
Chimera- Heavy Stubber
Leman Russ Squadron- 1, Battle Cannon, Heavy Stubber
Armoured Sentinels- 1, Autocannon

Doting Throng
Magus- Mastery Level 2, Crouchling
Neophyte Hybrids- 10, 2 Heavy Stubbers, 2 Flamers, Cult Icon
Neophyte Hybrids- 10, 2 Heavy Stubbers, 2 Flamers, Cult Icon
Neophyte Hybrids- 10, 2 Heavy Stubbers, 2 Flamers, Cult Icon

Subterranean Uprising
Primus
Hybrid Metamorphs- 5, 5 Claws
Acolyte Hybrids- 7, Heavy Rock Saw
Acolyte Hybrids- 7, Heavy Rock Saw

Allied Detachment
Hive Tyrant- Wings, 2 Brainleech Devourers, Electroshock Grubs
Mucolid Spore Pod
Raveners- 5
Manufactorum Armoured Container Cache- 2 Caches

>>50473263

Sure they do, they're only barely above the bottom three armies. The absolute nadir of mid tier, or peak of ass-tier.

>>50473393
The guy who leaked the Magnus stuff has a press-release copy of the book. The NDA expires Friday night, and he will post about it then.

>>50473468

alright, makes sense, thanks

While we're discussing previews, then, can we talk about what the fuck this is supposed to be? It clearly wasn't part of the 1ksons release, and it's got... kind of a Tyraniddy thing going on with the 5 segmented plated bit on top, and in combination with the purplish clawed hand it definitely has some possibility of being Genestealer-related.

GSC Wave 2 incoming?

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>>50473515
Forgot pic, sorry.

>>50473515
>>50473557

I think its AoS Elves.

>>50473557
AoS Ælves or Fimirach.

>>50473557
I'd kill for Exodites, but it's probably AoS elves like >>50473616 said.

WoM Limited Edition was out of Stock.

Now is back on Pre-Order.

What gives? https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Warzone-Fenris-Wrath-of-Magnus-Limited-Edition

I was disappointed I didn't order it in time. But now I'm hesitant to get it again.

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>>50472649
There's literally a Dwarf model called the Cogsmith already out. Half-cog is an Admech thing, but it could easily be a bit for the steam dwarfs chosen to be misleading.

>>50473431
This is extraordinarily bad as far as GSC goes.

You have two (2) acolyte squads in the entire fucking list, and only one of metamorphs.

Tons of extra neophytes with useless heavy stubbers that can't shoot and charge (which you clearly want to do in a doting throng formation with cult icons, though I question why since they're worse than acolytes in every way and a Primus already gives out the Hatred aura).

Also extremely questionable choice of Tyranids, with only one Synapse on the field those Ravs are fucked if they stray too far, limiting your Tyrants movement.

>>50472766
The steam dwarves help build the Sigmarines stuff actually. And their god helped build the Sigmarines themselves.

>>50473684
>Shotguns
>In AoS
I actually like it.

>>50473616
>>50473641
>>50473645
Why would elves have a purple hand with claws??

>>50473641
Or Tzeentch Arcanites.

>>50473738
That's why I said or Fimirach.

>>50473684
True, but the entire arm itself looks literally almost identical to the arms on a Tech-Priest Dominus.

>>50473752
What the fuck is that?

Don't expect 40kg people to keep up with the retarded lore from Age of Smegmar.

If you could add another army to 40k (with a full rulebook and models for everything) what would it be?

Besides squats.

I'd probably choose Exodite Eldar. The concept of space elves riding dinosaurs with mounted guns on them appeals to something in me.

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>>50473778
Really, really old Warhammer Fantasy faction that Forgeworld is bringing back.

>>50473778
Cyclop rape lizards, iirc.

I saw them on FW when I was browing their site, only way I'd have found out about them.

>>50473675

Maybe some people cancelled when they realized Thousand Sons weren't going to be overnight gamebreakers like Genestealer Cults? (not counting Magnus/Ahriman psyker deathstar builds of course)

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meanwhile on the shitpost kiddies area

>>>/vg/161508239

should we pay a visit?

>>50473616
>>50473645
what if it's a dual-use kit like demons

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>>50473779
Mutha fuckin dino riders!

>>50473761
I agree, while the cog itself isn't solely indicative, that arm is the exact same as the ones on Kataphron weapon-arms, combined with key-cog and spindly mechandritish fingers I'm fairly certain it's Admech.

But I don't want another Tech-Priest, I want more cute beep boops and transports. IA14 in March though, here's to cool stuff and the hope of Thallax/Vorax!

>>50473835
See? That shit is so 40k. Why the fuck have they not done it yet when it's already in their own lore?

>>50473779
Squa-
>That spoiler
Grots with an army of Squigs. They turn out to be a tier 2 army, far better than actual Orks.

>>50473823
No you fucking faggot, take the hint the first time your cancerous link comment is ignored.

What the fuck does that have to do with anything 40k related?

>>50473802
>>50473806
Weird, but actually interesting.

>>50473779
Skaven in space.

I just want to see what their tech would evolve into and how their spaceships would look.

>>50473817

I REALLY want it but I have barely a wage to justify such a purchase to begin with and also £120 for a fucking book with gold trim. It's like Runescape logic.

Will a redone Tzeentch lore fix a lot of the complaints people are having?

>>50473881
Too boring for 40k.

The fantasy trope of (insert animal)-men is fucking garbage, and thankfully none of the xenos have fallen into that boring ass rut.

>>50473940
About 40k? No. Why would it.

>>50473779
What >>50473850 said but have them be like GorkaMorka's Rebel Grots.

>less toughness
>more "ablative bodies"
>way better at shooty
>probably has ways of ignoring mob rule

They would probably be better than Orks are currently lol

I'd run a primary "Grot shooting" with "Boyz charging" allied in a hearbeat

>>50473940
If by "lore" you mean "discipline" and if by "redone" you mean "they added 3 more powers of which only two are decent-to-good and the remaining ones including primaris are still weaksauce".

Then no. The answer is no.

Chaos players should never be allowed to receive anything good because of how much they fucking whine.

It's more than all the other shit codexes combined.

>>50473823
i know a lot of people here are autistic but posting stuff like this gives normal autistics a bad name

>>50473978

Why not? A more powerful magic phase would help TSons a lot.

>>50473779

Would be nice to see all the Xeno factions get dedicated allies, similar to GC and Tyranids

> Digganobz: Mad Max faction. Swarms of light vehicles, ambushy infantry and maximum blast templates
> Savage Orks with Squig cavalry, Squiggoths n Shaman shit

> Cult of the Void Dragon, essentially Skitarii with forbidden tech and nerodermis experiments.

> Tau auxiliaries that run the full length of aliens. Kroot, Nicassar, Tarellian Dog-Soldiers, Gue'La etc.

>>50474024
I would be so happy to run IG stuff as battle brothers as gue'vesa
10/10 would take Valkrye and scion squads to drop in front of tau units as high damage ablative shields and to ass to more deep striking using homing beacon stealth suits

>>50474050


xenos get out

reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

>>50472763
pls respond

>>50474024
>tfw ywn play as a chaos daemon auxilliary detachment for the tau, who just think you're some kind of weird zoo creature.

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>>50474094
>being this autistic
You must be hungry, have some food, it's on the house

>>50474002
Seriously. They get like 3 months of straight releases and keep fucking whining.

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>>50474116
>strawberries in corn flakes
disgusting.

>>50474023
It's a fucking psychic phase, stop using fantasy terms like a retard.

And adding more randomly generated powers to a discipline with a bad primaris isn't going to help "a lot" with the main problem that thousand sons are extremely overcosted garbage against 90% of threats.

Yeah, they're marines with a 4++ invuln and AP 3. Literally worthless against anything GEQ or MEQ that are in cover. They have one psyker who has to roll on a bad discipline and if he doesn't get a blessing they don't even get their Faction bonus, which doesn't even matter except against AP3 or better weapons.

>>50473881
I love this idea. I could see them having a cosmic Under-Empire in the webway that would constantly put them at odds with the various Eldar flavors. Or just a fuckload of space hulks.

>>50474136
Quantity means nothing when the quality is all shit.

They don't need months of releases, they need just one new Codex that's well-written, full of fun options, and balanced for 7th.

t. not even a Chaos player.

>>50474188
Why balance it for 7th when 8th is around the corner. We'd NEVER hear the end of their whining if they had an update at the tail end of an edition.

>>50474149

Like most people whining about TSons, you're clearly under appreciating how many spells you can get from the various lores we have available.

TSons can dominate the magic phase in a way only daemons can atm. I think if the durability of rubrics isn't enough for you, you should study how to play a better positioning game.

>>50474188
So basically, they need to be Space Marines, Necrons, or AdMech.

>>50474183
Or just one huge space hulk the size of a craftworld they live in. Imagine the sheer pants-shitting terror of THAT coming out the Warp in your system.

Basically the only hope for 1ksons right now is that they were designed with 8th edition psychic phase in mind and maybe powers won't be so fucking random.

>>50474183
I'd bet Skaven would have access to the warp. You fucking know they'd use it for everything. The deldar would have to develop extermination squads.

>>50474255
>warp
I meant webway, fuck

>>50474236
>this is bait

>>50474236
?
It's 150 points for 1ML on Rubics and 250 for 2ml on the termis.

All of our Warp charges are wrapped up in Sorcerers with units we can't afford

>>50474266
They basically do in AoS.

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>>50474249
Already sending in the latest in servitor technology in first. The Genestealers and Orks would have a field day in that thing.

>>50474236
>clearly under appreciating
Or they have a higher standard, they have been bad and did not improve notably.
>magic phase
kys
>I think if the durability of rubrics isn't enough for you, you should study how to play a better positioning game.
Their durability is made mostly moot by how easy it is to get cover saves etc. from other sources, yet they still cost way too much.

Yeah others have it worse, but don't pretend csm isn't consistently shafted.
t. tau player who has to tone down lists every day b/c this game has little to no balance.

>>50474236
>if the durability of rubrics isn't enough for you, you should study how to play a better positioning game.
Then what the fuck is the point of having a 4+ invul save on all my god damn marines if I'm just going to sit them in 4+ cover?

>>50474236
Was wondering when the bait would hit this level.

>>50474236
>I think if the durability of rubrics isn't enough for you, you should study how to play a better positioning game.
I don't play Chaos, I play Genestealer Cults. I just wanted someone else to get another codex as powerful and as fun as the one I just got, so we could have fair and awesome games.

No amount of invuln saves on rubrics is going to save them from the weight of dice I can put out for the same points with Acolytes. No amount of access to tons of psychic powers, of which their Aspiring Sorcs can generate a grand total of 1 from 1 discipline + a bad primaris, is going to save them from losing the objective game because I have 24 units to their 6 or 7.

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Looking to make a trolly as FUCK Alpha Legion force for 30k. I'm playing around with 2000 points and will probably go with Alpharius. Its a casual group so just about anything goes that's not *too* cheesy.

Suggestions to use the Alpha rules to make my friends hate me and use liberal use of my own troll face?

>>50474324

Different guy, but the point is that you don't NEED cover, whereas your opponent probably still does. Stick your objectives wide out in the open where your opponent had the disadvantage.

>>50474149

The Aspring Sorcerer can always cast Force, which affects the entire unit(activates all Force Weapons in the unit), thus giving the entire unit a 3++.

As for the Tzeentch Powers, the Primaris Power is meh, on average it's a slightly better Frag Missile. Doombolt, Breath of Chaos and the new S6 AP2 Assault d6 transmogrify power are all decent enough rolls, remember you can use a rhino or the jump artifact to get into range. Boon of Mutation is usually a waste of psychic dice according to most Tzeentch players, and the new power that gives you extra psychic dice whenever a nearby ally uses a power, is pretty much useless on ML1(though a great roll for a ML3+ HQ sorcerer).

Treason of Tzeentch is extremely powerful, but will probably require the dice from multiple casters to go off, in which case you will want a sorcerer with a spell familiar and that anti-DtW scroll to be the one casting it if possible.

If you roll the 1 or the 4 on the new table, you might as well just not cast with that guy, and lend his warp charges to sorcerers with better equipment or better powers.

>>50474243
Or Tau or Eldar

>>50474392
That does not sound like anon's original point, and milking that ++ doesn't change the fact that rubrics are still way overcosted.

>>50473779
Does a proper Lost and the Damned army count?

>>50471209
Doom bolt should have been the primaris.

>>50474392

Terrain and objectives are not the point.

You play Thousand Sons with any of these formations and EVERY unit your oppenent has will put out more dice in shooting or assault than you have models on the table.

All these models are T4 W1. They could have a 2++ and they would be just as bad because your opponent is throwing 30 dice at squad of 9 guys. You are throwing at most 16 if they are in range.

>>50474450
Breath of Chaos is a worthless piece of trash.
It is a 2 charge template, so your sorcerer needs to be in front to cast it or have a hole to hit a large clump of units in range. If anything is in range to cast breath something has gone wrong and 90% of the time it won't do shit. Also it's a 2 charge so you need 3+dice to reliably cast it, which is a waste most of the time.

I don't care how good it looks on paper, I have 150 games with Thousand Sons and Breath has never once been useful. Everything it can do is done better by Firestorm or Doombolt. And if your opponent leaves abunch of 1W 2+ Armor guys infront of your Rubrics, then they are an idiot or they failed a 4in charge.

>>50474574
Would make the units relevant, but still leaves the table useless.

>>50474612
I would take assured Doombolt + useless table in an instant.

So has there been any news on the Legions book coming out for pre-order this weekend? Will it contain different Thousand Sons options or will it just be a copy from the WoM book?

>>50474625
Of course it's better, it's just not a real fix to a trash discipline.

>>50473950
>Skaven
>Boring for 40k
>Not the myriad fucking loyalist space marine armies we have now

Fuck man, get some perspective.

>>50474492

I was more thinking out loud from his comment. While they're no doubt overcosted, I was also trying to make use of that price using what strength they have.

>>50474607

What I find funny is that everyone complains about all the high S low AP weaponry everywhere, then the Rhubrics show up with an army capable of giving units a 3++ save, and the tone shifts to them dying to small arms fire.

I get that they're expensive, but I think the strength of the army isn't going to come from the Rhubrics. The strength will likely come from the proper Sorcerers.

I will say that they shouldn't be forced to roll on Tzeentch, especially since they have the mark focus already.

>>50474651

Fuck the fix. I will take anything that is an objective improvement at this point.

>>50474684
>the strength of the army isn't going to come from the Rhubrics
People like them, and want them to, idk, not be a tax.

>>50474387
To not be cheesy? Find out what Legions they play. Get their unique unit. Paint it up in Alpha Legions colours, and learn to use it better than they can. So, Deathguard Terminators, IF Templar Brethren, Tyrant Siege, etc.

>>50474724
Eh maybe a lil cheese.

>>50474723

I get that, I like them too, and I'm not calling them a tax. I'm saying that they're more of an anvil, which is what the big invul saves are supposed to do.

>>50474684
>but I think the strength of the army isn't going to come from the Rhubrics

Then what the fuck is the point of playing Thousand Sons if you aren't going to use the iconic Thousand Sons unit?

Please tell me. I would love to know.

I know the Sorc's are the strength but when the best thing in the book is 10 Sorcs in Termi armor, and one guy has the jump pack relic so you have a Jump Termi squad with rerollable saves, and the Thousand Sons are an after thought....

We got these new sets? Too bad they cost more than any other thing in the army on their own.

FUCK I am so mad.
You win. Fuck You. I mad. I tilted.
I hope your happy.
I'm closing 4chan and going to calm down.

FUCK

>>50474766
Honestly, depends on what legions they use.
>>50474781
>Then what the fuck is the point of playing Thousand Sons if you aren't going to use the iconic Thousand Sons unit?
To play something that isn't the Chaos you've learned to loathe over the years and try to get something refreshing that reminds you why you're playing the game, let alone the army. To patch what you view as a hole.

>>50474684
>What I find funny is that everyone complains about all the high S low AP weaponry everywhere, then the Rhubrics show up with an army capable of giving units a 3++ save, and the tone shifts to them dying to small arms fire.
Because they cost 23 fucking points per model.

>>50474775
A unit that is horribly points inefficient and can only be justified in a list as a flavor unit, is a tax.

The ++ is cool, but the unit is not survivable.

>>50474808
>isn't the Chaos you've learned to loathe
By once again bringing the actual flavor as a tax?

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Anybody have a pdf of this? Trying to get the most recent renegades & heretics rules

>>50474813
Ding ding ding.
The obvious truth is here.

The REALLY sad thing is that, because of the poor rules, these new 1ksons are now going to sell poorly, and GW will take that as evidence that Traitor Legions aren't popular and will do less kits for them in the future.

They'll go "oh, but Burning of Prospero sold so well... people must like Custodes and Space Wolves!" and then yiffs will continue to get more support and we'll get more shit like Imperial Agents with Custodes/Sisters of Silence, and Chaos will be shafted again.

>>50474823

I'm still holding out hope that GW couldn't possibly fuck up an entire release like this so horribly. There has to be some redeeming quality in the Legions book to make Thousand Sons not a laughing stock and a complete waste of time and energy.

Let the Legions detachment simply make all aspiring sorcerers upgrade to exalted sorcerers for free. Done.

I was going to reply, but there's no point. There is nothing I can say to make any of you happy. Instead, I'm going to have fun painting my BoC/BoP models in preheresy colors and playing my Thousand Sons.

>>50474868
>1ksons are now going to sell poorly
I know I'm an exception to the rule in this case, but that is why I'm looking into them.
I need a weaker army to play other weak armies with.

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Roger of Warhammer TV's first model.

>>50474903

I would rather play two sub armies against each other than two top tier armies. Every time without question.

>>50474911
I'd disagree. Often times sub armies make it hard to run fun shit and have it feel good to use.
Better armies with a low competitiveness are where its at. (exception for armies that can't be anything but OP)

>>50474935

I'm just saying that the best games I've ever played have always been smaller points without worrying about being hyper competitive.

>>50474935
>armies that can't be anything but OP
There is no army like this, save maybe mono-Tzeentch after WoM drops.

>>50474967
Read armies as factions, my bad.

>>50472883
Or dark mechanicus if we assume all leaks are from the same miniature, or an inquisitorial warband.

>>50474890
The Thousand Sons rules in TL are almost guaranteed to be an exact copy and paste of WoM, just bundled in with the other 8 Legions for convenience.

The most fun games don't have super heavys/gargants, or skyhammer-esque deep strike bullshit going on

>>50474979

No problem. I also missed a word in my post. It was supposed to be suboptimal but I derped.

>>50475004

Exactly.

>>50474973
>I want to run a fluffy army
>Wraithdar saim hainn
>Nevermind

>Tau, want to run monster mash
>Welp

Of course you can stack trash, but taking a list b/c it's fun of fluffy will not always let you play at a middling power level.

>>50475004
>skyhammer-esque deep strike bullshit
Do want to say, skyhammer vs. farsight formations was a fun kind of bullshit.

>>50474502

They already have a book in IA13

>>50475019
>Wraithdar saim hainn
Wraithblades, Wraithlords, Vypers. Moving on.

>Tau
Crisis suits only, give them shitty loadouts like burst cannons if you need to gimp yourself further. The Riptide and Stormsurge are disproportionately-powerful problem units but you don't have to include them, and even if you do you can still gimp them by buying drones for a Riptide, or putting useless but fun support systems on it, or just not playing it to the best of the unit's ability, like charging it into combat.

So do you just have no imagination or what?

>>50475004
>Meet a guy who says he also likes to play fluffy
>yay my CSM will have a good showing
>It's the Wulfen formation, 12 Thunderwolves and meltas in a droppod
I guess there is a lot of fluffy dogs in there, just not the kind i'd hoped for

I'm still holding out hope that the reason that are releasing these supplements is to try and keep chaos sales up as they trickle out releases before a codex redo where the points and core rules get fixed

I logical reason that they have not released the new Dex is that they are still developing the next edition and want the Dex to be compatible

>>50475049
Did you just stop reading after the greentext, or are you just trying to be petulant?

having to purposely gimp the army was the issue I was referring to, impossible being clear hyperbole.

>>50475078
Having proven that picking a certain playstyle does not, by default, make your army OP, all that's left of your argument is
>but I can't just pick an idea and expect it to be perfectly balanced against my opponent!

If you are seriously expecting this in a game with power levels as disparate as 40k then you are clearly so delusional there is no point in trying to persuade you otherwise.

Is it weird I, as a Chaos player, don't have a huge problem with the codex? Granted I'm rather casual, but I think the codex is fairly decent balanced, and does justice to the fluff. It is a little sad to see smart codexes beat out by fan-jerking (lookin at you, Taudar) brokenness.

My only problem is I think that despite lacking something akin to ATSKNF, the formations are kinda weak. I love the psychic powers in Traitor's Hate, and some of the formations do justice to fluff and work very well, but I'd just like something that packs a punch, and hopefully Legions will do that.

But I guess win, lose, or draw, stuff is stuff. I'll take good models with meh rules over shit models with great rules anyday- I wouldn't be in 40k of my top thing was balance. Maybe 8th, if nothing else, will make balance

>>50470544
>Being forced to throw a die at Change also limits their flexibility somewhat, as does losing their Primaris.

CSM always get the Primaris power of both their God Discipline and whatever other discipline they choose. The catch is that you can't take more non-Chaos powers than you can God powers. You get an additional power compared to Loyalists, but you can't max out one non-Chaos tree (such as Telepathy) like they can in exchange.

This has been FAQ'd for, like, years.

>>50475173
As a tau player, I have one thing to say
We are not overpowered, you are just bad, git gud and you too can win games.

>>50475134
>If you are seriously expecting
I'm not, I'm saying that in more middling armies where you can just do whatever and be approximately even footed you get more fun games.
You're just actively creating an argument to counter, and calling out the flaws in it. I made it very clear that in most instances a casual approach will lead to fun games, but some things that you want to do will be OP and that takes some of the fun away.

kys, and ty for the input.

>>50475202
>Riptide Wing
>HRC
>the Stormsurge in general
Tau is a codex that can be abused and thus is OP. Whether you actually abuse it or not and create an OP LIST is down to you but that does not mean that the faction you play is not by and large OP.

>>50472475
>that Obliterator "Vox" from the novel Daemon World who had a gun barrel in his mouth.

That dude was pretty fuckin baller. When even your own comrades are terrified of you, you a real nigga.

>>50475191
That is entirely incorrect. Provide a source or fuck off, shitposter.

>>50475191
Source.

Rule's always been "must generate one and up to half of your powers from your god table", as I understand.

>>50470184
When did it go from
>ALWAYS ACCEPT RIDES FROM THE CLOWNS
to
>MAKE SURE TO TIP CLOWNS 10%
?

Just need a second opinion on this:

So, the Imperial Fists chapter Tactics give both Devastators and Centurion Devastators the Tank Hunters rule. I was planning to equip my Centurions with gravcannons. I'm pretty sure I'm able to reroll a 1 through (No vehicle damage), but is there something I could be missing that takes that away from me when using a weapon that does not actually penetrate a vehicle?

>>50475226
>in more middling armies where you can just do whatever and be approximately even footed
But this isn't true. Let's pick Guard, a middle-of-the-road codex that is neither broken nor shitty.

Let's play Emperor's Wrath, supported by Emperor's Blade and/or Armored Battlegroup with a Malcador Infernus. Suddenly, we're doing pretty well! We can even hold our own against the top codices without being instantly tabled!

Let's now footslog Veterans, supporting them with Rough Riders and have concealed mortar HWTs to back them up. Wait, why are we losing so badly in a casual game? What the fuck?

40k is to some extent a strategy game. You're legitimately retarded if you don't believe careful listbuilding is, or should be a factor. Yes, some units are better than others, and that's just a fact. If your """""fluffy""""" idea involves spamming these imbalanced units then it's going to do better than a fluffy CSM list that plays Berzerkers. It doesn't matter if it's a casual setting or not.

Yes, it's shitty, but there's nothing we can do. It's therefore your job to actually be intelligent, think carefully about your list, and build something that remains fluffy while not being too powerful relative to what your meta is bringing.

>>50475019
>>Wraithdar saim hainn
>fluffy
Saim Hainn is red go fasta eldar, not wraiths, yeah?

>>50475344
To be fair, the Wraithknight is actually pretty fast, and Saim-Hann are this edition's Eldar posterboys anyway so the Wraith units on the webstore and the models' boxes are painted in their colors.

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>>50475240
>>50475235
>>50475191

Pic related.

Turns out I misspoke (slightly). They retain the Primaris power of their Chaos discipline even though they take powers from an additional discipline. They have a Psychic Focus in their god-specific Discipline no matter what other powers they take (which means that while they can take additional powers, they never get the Primaris of another discipline for free). I was incorrect about them getting the Primaris of both.

I mono-Slaanesh with no Sorcerers, so I rarely if ever deal with Psychic phase stuff.

>>50475173
Did you ever know the glory days of 3.5?

>>50475372
>They have a Psychic Focus in their god-specific Discipline no matter what other powers they take (which means that while they can take additional powers, they never get the Primaris of another discipline for free)
Didn't one FAQ or another state that models with Chaos Psychic Focus (the rule that gives them their god's primaris for free) also benefit from Psychic Focus, meaning a Sorc who takes everything from Biomancy gets Smite for free despite knowing the Nurgle Primaris his mark gives him, for example?

>>50475382
That was over a decade ago, mate. You and me, we're the old guard, who remember the time when Sisters were actually relevant and GW as a company didn't fucking suck shit right? This was before CSM 3.5 after all

>>50475382
Are we in 3.5?

>>50475372
So the way it's written in the codex, which keeps 1k1 sons aspiring sorcerers garbage, which is what the original argument was about?

Yeah, thanks for pointing that out bruv

>>50475398
Demons only, iirc. Not CSM (Because they Also have to roll on their god table in addition to getting the primaris)

>>50475173
Here's what I think about the current Codex.

It was solidly designed for its time, and introduced a lot of rules that made the army feel like a different one compared to loyalist Marines (Randomness aside, the rules ARE true to the fluff).

However, it wasn't quite polished when it came out - it was solid, but not perfect or really refined in any way. This has only gotten more and more evident with time as the editions have changed and the power level of the game has dramatically increased, while they've stayed somewhat the same (though some updates have helped them slightly here and there). FW somewhat fills that gap, turing a CSM army into a upper-mid/low-upper tier army that is actually extremely powerful when used correctly and intelligently. It still hasn't fixed the problem of the codex, though, which is that CSM simply cost too much for what they do (The story of the codex is, "This unit is actually pretty good...but not for that much!") and they're balanced against a completely different game where Assault was much more dangerous.

It was pretty solid for its time, but it's not aged well. Even still, I can usually do pretty well with my Noise Marines, Chosen, and Havocs and some Daemon-Engines, but I simply can't go toe to toe with a powergamed netlist without pulling out all the stops tactically and some solid luck.

>>50475474
>It was solidly designed for its time
No it wasn't. The internal balancing was, and is, awful. Case in point; the Heldrake, Warp Talons, Mutilators...

>>50475474

It was bad from the start.

The reason why it was considered powerful in early 6th edition was the fact that very few armies had good skyfire abilities. Traditional mechanized marine lists lacked the anti-air vehicles and Deredeos at the time, and so were countered hard by a Chaos army that brought two heldrakes along. That, and baleflamers used to have a 360 degree arc from an old FAQ that was later backtracked.

The actual Chaos Marines were subpar compared to marine armies considered good at the time(Salamanders, Space Wolves, Grey Knights).

>>50475474
I see bait is getting subtler

I picked up the Death Company Strike force a couple months back just to have a small allied DC force to my regular guys. Thinking about going in for a bit of a Blood Angel force. Is it worth it or am I fine with regular space marines and allied DC?

>>50475372
You misspoke entirely. There was nothing factual or informative about your post.

>>50475398
CSM psykers have to throw at least one die at their god discipline. That makes little sense anyways, as the rules for psychic focus state that its lost if a psyker ever knows a power from a discipline other than their focus.

>>50475622
>the rules for psychic focus state that its lost if a psyker ever knows a power from a discipline other than their focus
I think the FAQ I was thinking of said something along the lines of regular Psychic Focus applying first (thus granting you the normal primaris) and THEN Chaos Psychic Focus taking effect (giving you the god primaris). However I don't really know CSM so it's completely possible it doesn't apply to them or works in a different way.

t. Daemons player who was considering starting a small CSM force but is now against the idea

What can make CSM players happy aside from making a basic Chaos Marine 5's across the board.

>>50475698
Nothing.
CSMfags will never be happy. They'll bitch until their codex is buffed to the very top of the meta and then they'll bitch about it being so powerful that they can't get games anymore.

>>50475698
Getting Eldar tier cheese, that will stop them from bitching for a little while.

And they'll bitch even more after they get legion rules.

>>50475723
Legion rules will be shit just like WoM. Bitching in advance dulls the pain y'know

>>50475735
This man knows

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>Grey Knights were forgotten in Fenris once again only being included in a passing sentence...
The suffering never stops.

>>50475777
>Sisters were never even mentioned in Mont'ka despite the ending of Kauyon
it hurts

>>50475777
Punishment for
The 5th Ed Dex

So are all of the traitors going to get thrown a bone?
IW, for example?

>>50474909
Pretty solid actually.

>>50475817
Confirmed all 9 are getting a bone

>>50475817
All traitor legions are getting:

Special Rule(s)
Detachment
Warlord Traits
Artifacts

>>50474868
>and we'll get more shit like Imperial Agents with Custodes/Sisters of Silence
How long do you think it takes to write a codex?
Because Codex Inquisition is coming out in, what, ten days or so?
They don't write them THAT fast.

>>50475855
I wonder how many ap3 60 pt daemon weapons we'll have to shovel through before we get disappointed by the boring fear and soulblaze granting formations?

Really quick, does adamantium will stack if multiple models with it are affected?

>>50475885
Fuck no.

>>50475885
No
It's a 5+ to deny
>He thinks he's a Khorne Dog

>>50475891
Ok, thanks.

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Hi anons
I used to play 40k a few years ago, but fell out of it. I'm interested in starting up again, how's the state of the game? Is it worth bothering?

>>50475902
It's a pile of shit just like it always was.
The tournament scene is absolute cancer just like it always was.
You can still have fun if you play casual games with cool people just like you always could.

GW are turning over a new leaf, though, but there's a long way to go until they aren't total fucking cocksuckers.

>>50475902

more broken than ever, what do you expect?

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>>50475420
When Orks had competitive lists and Necrons were a WD army.

>>50475902
competitive scene is trash as always but the sheer diversity in armies out there now makes it a ton of fun for friendly games if you have cool people to play with

>>50475928
>>50475934
>>50475963
I'm not really interested in tournaments, I'd just like to show up to a store and have some fun games. I used to go with my childhood friend to one as a kid and we'd spend the day playing just little casual games and sometimes little game days the store set up. That's kinda what I'm aiming for.
I guess the hitch here is finding someone to play with.

would orks be better if they had fast transport/tank hybrids that could drive headlong into enemy formations, drop boyz into close combat, and then tank shock everything?

>>50475835
How boned are they?

>>50475835
It's a small bone.

>>50475966
Take a look at your FLGS (if you have one) and report back here as to the state of the meta. If there's a game going on, watch it and see how it goes, remembering that those are the guys you'd be playing with if you got into it.

The game is broken as shit and if your local meta is full of WAAC you will not enjoy playing.

What armies would be the best for Terminator Only lists (vehicles allowed ofc)? I'm a poorfag, so this is all just hypothetical. I'm thinking Normie Marines because cataphractiis, dank angles because deathwing, or Grey Knights because a whole lot of termie choices, as well as base termie troops.

>>50476064
30k Pride of the Legion. Makes Termis and legion specific termies (if they were an Elites choice) troops.

>>50475982
Insufficient information to answer at this time

>>50475307

It does not work on Grav because they do not roll to penetrate. See Rending for an example of how not all rolls to see if you hurt stuff are the same.

Although, in this case it's moot because Grav-Amps give you a reroll anyway.

>>50476097
Speaking of which... How is 30k? I haven't really read much into it. Is it "less garbage" than 40k, or at least somewhat cheaper than 30k?

>>50476148
30k is more balanced than 40k but you will pay a lot for the resin FW models.

>>50476148
Than 40k*

For a killteam game where my friends and I are all building our team from scratch so we don't know what the others are building, how is this list?

Troop
Harlequin Troupe
4 Players with Harlequin's caress
1 Troupe Master with Harlequin's caress
1 Shadowseer with haywire grenades

Would a Death Jester be better? would downgrading everyone to harlequin's kiss and losing the haywires to get an extra player be better?