/srg/ - Shadowrun General

>>50463893 #
You're right, but then again, most skills dont benefit one's career, so most people don't have skills. You only get skillpoints if you are a hobbyist or professionally involved in the field. A skill rank of 2-3 is common for hobbyists, 3-4 for professionals, and goes up from there.

So, a normal person isn't going to have points in con, negotiate or etiquette, because normal social interaction functions on a skill level of 0. Which is why a low attribute score is a big deal. If you skill up a dumpstat skill, you're basically training to overcome your natural ineptitude.

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So, yekka, any chance you are in the thread and can explain what is going on here?

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>>50464264
Chummer doesn't play nice with high DPI settings, unfortunately. Your font size is screwing up the positioning. I passed it off to one of the other devs to look into a while back, I may have to take it back.

>>50463893
>4e assumed you were untrained by default. 5e does not.
If you're going to talk out your ass, can you spray some perfume first?

>RATING 0: UNTRAINED
>The default level of knowledge obtained through interaction with society and the Matrix. Though untrained, you have a general awareness of the skill, and occasionally may even be able to fake it.

Looking for the pdf of the new Shadowrun 5E Master Index Edition.

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Well, this is um... odd. Apparently chummer crashes whenever I select a metatype. I'm genuinely unsure how this could be happening.

>>50464600
Update to the latest release, or nightly. github.com/chummer5a/chummer5a/releases/latest

>>50464352
How's this for perfume, you illiterate fuck?
>Rating 0 is what someone has just from watching TV/movies. It's how well you average person is able to fight after watching a kung fu flick, or do chemistry after watching Breaking Bad. It's a thorough lack of actual skill, but enough cultural awareness to at least attempt skills which can be used untrained.

Jesus, can we stop arguing autistically over the purposefully ambiguous Rating system? Let's talk about something else.

What is your favorite Shadowrun creature?

If you could have a game anywhere in the setting, where would you want a game to take place?

How has anybody not shot Harlequin in his smug elf face?

Would I break the game if I made melee attacks be simple actions instead of complex ones? It's retarded that you can't do stuff like stand and hit on the same turn.

>>50465261

You hit the nail on the head. The common person does not practice martial arts or fight regularly, so they have a skill level of 0. Similarly, normal people don't scam each other, or engage in negotiations, or lead others in their daily lives, therefore they have a skill level of 0 in all of those.

Having a skill level at all means that the person engages in the activity on a regular basis, or spends time to study it. Therefore, the baseline is 0.

>>50465351
It's one of the most common houserules. A thorough improvement.

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>>50465314
>How has anybody not shot Harlequin in his smug elf face?
Believe me, If I could get away with it, I would. The asshat has so much plot armor, Batman would cringe.

>>50465314
>What is your favorite Shadowrun creature?
The fucking gigantic armoured armadillo from Howling shadows. Seriously, these fucking things are ridiculous.
First of all, they've got 18 hardened armour, which means any attack that doesn't pierce armour does nothing, and even if it does pierce then they automatically soak 9 damage, and then roll their full soak of 50 fucking dice (because they have 20 body, toughness 12, and 18 armour) so to even do a single point of damage to them you need a minimum DV of about 25 and even then they've got a physical condition monitor of 30.
Anti-vehicle rockets do 24P/-10AP to vehicles (I'm considering the juggernaut a vehicle fuck you) meaning the juggernaut would soak 4 automatically, then roll 40 dice and most likely soak 13-15, which means if all goes according to statistics, you need a minimum of six(6) AV rockets to take this thing down.
It's also immune to cold, fire, poisons, and toxins.
The only "reliable" way to take this thing down is high force stunbolts, and even then it has a willpower of 9 and a stun track of 13.

Moving off of it's defense, it's claws kill fucking ANYTHING because of it's absurd base strength making it's melee attacks do 42P/-4AP damage with 4 reach.
Even if you've got a vehicle with 24 body and 24 armour, this thing can still make your ride explode with a single touch.
It also rolls 10 dice to attack, so it's not like it's going to be missing all the time either.

Now imagine for a moment, a mad scientist rigger pays a mage huge amounts of nuyen to stunbolt one of these things into submission, before ripping it open and installing a rating 3 stirrup system and a TRACES system.
A stirrup system functions as a control rig interface AND move-by-wire system of equivalent rating, so the rigger can now jump into the Juggernaut, who now has a base initiative of 20+2d6.
Cont.

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>>50463862
>* You have 1 new private message, titled 'Yo, have you heard? Some Firewatch guys are going to give a talk here'

Don't get excited. They're giving demonstrations of their shitty martial art and trying to convince you to buy into their training program.

>>50465690
With the TRACES system, it gets +2 to all melee attacks and +2 to all defense tests, making it's defense with the REA augmentation from stirrup to be 13 dice.

So at the end of the day, you've got a critter with the following statblock:
BOD 20 AGI 6 REA 5(8) STR 42
WIL 9 LOG 1 INT 3 CHA 1
18 hardened armour and toughness 12
A defense pool of 13 dice
A condition monitor of 30/13
Immunity to cold, fire, poisons, and toxins
An attack pool of 12 dice with a weapon that does 42P/-4AP with Reach 4
And it's 100% rigger controllable too.

TL;DR if you ever want a TPK, send a juggernaut rigger after your party.

>>50465744
That sounds brutal. And expensive.

>>50465690
>>50465744
I assume the rigger is also going to be feeding the thing combat drugs for an extra 3d6 init?

>>50465765
Well, the 'ware itself only costs ~250k nuyen, but both have an availability of 20+
Juggernauts have no actual price or availability, so you just need to go into the country and find one with a truck full of hillbilly mages shitting stunbolts everywhere, let's put the cost of that expedition at like 300k, which means the price to actually get this set up is only about half a million nuyen.
Caring for the beast is probably going to be expensive though, but most military equipment is extremely difficult to maintain anyway.

>>50465744
>>50465690
Oh, and I forgot to mention their movement code is x3/x5, with an agility of 6.
So running they can move 30m per turn, which means these things can run at 10m/s, or 36km/hr

>>50465856
I think their appearance in adventures would mostly consist of chasing after runners in a jeep or whatever.

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>>50465744
Now I really want to do this as a big setpiece; the party are trying to get across Nevada when they run into a go-gang, great roaring motorcycles circling a Juggernaut with a howdah on the back.

What does Allied Mastercomputer 'look' like?

I want to fashion a big reveal of sorts and am looking up how malevelont AI's are portrayed.

>>50465871
Or have a crazed dictator/PMC leader/mechahitler have bought the remnants of the scrapped SACC (Stirrup Assisted Command and Control) project from the black market, after they were mothballed by the UCAS military.

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>>50465936

>>50465968
That's master control program though. I already knew what it looked like.

>>50465437
>You hit the nail on the head.
I'm glad you think so, because this is the comment that illiterate retarded only read the first sentence of:
>No, that's wrong. 4e assumed you were untrained by default. 5e does not. You should assume someone has 3 ranks in any skill worse competency benefits their career (like Etiquette for a character in a social environment) and a 6 in their primary professional skill - because skills go to 12+ now, and 6 is just 'enough for it to reliably be your profession.'

>So, for example, an officer wageslave who writes software for a living? They have Computer 6 for the programming and Etiquette 3 for the office politics. A medical doctor might have Medicine 6, First Aid 6, and Leadership 3 for managing his staff and having a good bedside manner.

>Rating 0 is what someone has just from watching TV/movies. It's how well you average person is able to fight after watching a kung fu flick, or do chemistry after watching Breaking Bad. It's a thorough lack of actual skill, but enough cultural awareness to at least attempt skills which can be used untrained.

>>50466045

Oh no, you hit the nail on the head on that comment.

But you're still wrong, 0 is the default.

>>50465936
It doesn't "look" like anything. If you mean what the machine it is on looks like, it's literally too massive to describe. Deus's original computer took up several floors in an archology.AM took up an entire continent.

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>>50465936
Things look however they want to look on the Matrix - or however you elect to reskin them.

>>50466075
Hal9000 is not the lens on the wall, but the lens would identify it to everyone.

Shodan is not the mass of cables and lcd screens on the wall, but if you see that arrangement of photons, it's clearly shodan.

I'm thinking AM is most identifiable with a monolith of some sort in the background of holographic text.

>>50466104
Oh, is that what you mean? In that case, AM is deffo that monolith from the game, the one with his angsty teenage poetry written on it.

>>50466223
>knows all human history
>can't come up with anything better than "I hate you a lot, dad"
Waste of potential.

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>>50465980

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Do you guys have pictures, or even ideas of what your deckers/technos look like on the Matrix? That's one of the thing I really like about the short stories featuring the Matrix, that each user has a visual theme that links it's persona, devices, marks and so on.

>>50465314
>What is your favorite Shadowrun creature?
The Pandamonium, from Howling Shadows. It's not a monster in game terms, but there is something both awesome and terrifying about an hyper-agressive panda with active camo. I joke with my player that if they piss me off too much, I'll find a way to make them fight one.

>>50465314
>If you could have a game anywhere in the setting, where would you want a game to take place?
An aqualogy. Running the shadows in such a confined environment has got to be interesting.

>>50465314
>How has anybody not shot Harlequin in his smug elf face?
People tried. Sadly, people failed

>>50466507
The face AI that I made with the help of /srg/ a while back was a qt cheerleader with cinnamon coloured hair, her whole schtick was that she used leadership to give people an extra 5 initiative, or +7 dice to any given action.

>>50466345
It's dad said the same thing.

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>>50466507
Read Data Trails. Lacking a bit in art, but has many good ideas.

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>>50465744
>WIL 9 LOG 1 INT 3 CHA 1

Unless I'm misreading something, Godzilla here has 10 dice to resist a control thoughts spell. With a high-force casting to make it harder to shake, you should have enough time to make him commit suicide. Probably feed him explosives or make him cut his own throat.

>>50467668
Could you mind control a biodrone which has a rigger jumped in though? It's mind isn't in control at that point.

>>50467668
>make him cut his own throat.

What, are you going to roll up a semi with a 12-foot long dikote razor blade?

>>50467718
I mean, it's claws do 42P but I'm not even sure if armadillos can reach their own throats with their claws.
Either way in the case of "lol kill yourself" (for mind control) I usually give the person a free resistance test before they do it because of the fact that our brains are hardwired to make killing ourselves really hard. Control actions it's fair game though.

>>50467668
Why would you do that when you could have him lay waste to your enemies instead?

Have you guys seen the first episode for Incorporated yet? It's a Syfy show, so I'm sure it'll end up shitty, but it seems to be set in a world of pristine corporate enclaves surrounded by lawless Barrens. The protagonists are a ladder-climbing wageslave trying to cling the corporate ladder for ulterior motives, his doctor wife who I think is there to show how domestic wageslave life feels, and a young Barrens rat showing the non-corporate side of things.

They posted the first episode of it on YouTube, and while there aren't any red flags for me yet, I definitely don't trust Syfy's track record at this point, so I'd stay skeptical.

https://youtu.be/RlzKH5nMr9E

>>50468387
SyFy's shows tend to be miles better than their movies, chummer

>>50468478
Maybe I just got burned by the final seasons of the Stargate franchise. I'm tentatively hopeful about Incorporated, but only tentatively.

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>>50465936
Reading some Gibson may help. His work is chock full of AIs and people so rich/augmented that their motivations seem alien.

>>50466051
If 0 is the default, then your typical person has an Etiquette dice pool of 2.

0 isn't the default - it's the baseline for someone who has absolutely zero practical experience with something. Which, for common skills, is basically nobody. You can expect the typical person to have at least 1 skill point in Computer and Etiquette, for example, to give them the baseline ability to buy 1 hit in normal situations.

>>50468627
>>50466051
Oh my god, both of you faggots shut up. The rule is this:

Whatever makes sense.

Most people use Etiquette and Computers, so 1-3 points - not 0 - it's what's normal. Most people don't shoot SMGs or fight hackers - 0 is normal for cybercombat and automatics.

It varies skill by skill as to how skilled a normal civilian would be in that thing, and it follows common sense.

Now shut the fuck up, you retards.

>>50468627
>If 0 is the default, then your typical person has an Etiquette dice pool of 2.
Yes because they don't have to take tests, just like you don't have to make a test to navigate to a known matrix site, call someone, prepare food or, in our case, order food
Which is why Uncouth/Uneducated hurt so much: you actually HAVE to roll to see if you can prepare food or call someone or buy something

What are some good ways to make side money in a run that night not be super obvious?
One I came up with the other day was scanning unconscious guards for finger, retina, and bloid. A nice little payday for places that use biometrics.

Where do all the dead bodies corporates and shadowrunners make wind up?
Organ grinders and ghouls?

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>>50469340
That's actually a great idea. Other than paydata and stealing corp equipment to fence it later, which should both be done carefully, I find that side-jobs during the run often draw too much of your attention away from the objective and end up causing mistakes. But someone with a shadowrunner's skills should have no problem making some money on the side: a sammie can offer protection to a small business, a decker can help set-up and defend small hosts, a mage can harvest reagents or use healing spells or summon watcher spirits, etc...

>>50469635
If they're SINless, yeah pretty much. Otherwise, pic related

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>>50469340
Sim recordings of the run? Clean them up and sell them to thrillseekers, or let them ride along live a la Molly Millions. You could also solicit custom orders from other "security professionals" that need intel to plan their own jobs.

>>50470099
>mapping corporate interiors and security measures for a payday
that is actually pretty good.
If you combine that with taking biometric samples, you can probably get a few thousand extra every run.

>>50469340
If you're hitting corporate locations you could probably yoink the data off whatever devices you find and comb through them for blackmail material.

>>50470122
Running a bespoke legwork and planning service in the shadows is also a pretty decent campaign idea.

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What are the "must have" pieces of ware for a gunbunny adept? What are the best guns?

>>50469635
Let's go beyond people killed during runs.
Today's mortality rate in the US is around 10/1000, meaning ten deaths per one thousand inhabitants for each year. Let's bump that by 20% because, hey, violent dystopian future.
Seattle has an estimated 4 million population 12/1000 means 48 000 deaths each year. That's 131 dead bodies to dispose of each day. I hardly think the metroplex has room to spare for graveyards. So where are those bodies going?

>>50470379
Ware for a gun adept? Smartlink in your eyes and the highest-rating Muscle Toner you can get. Platelet Factories and Pain Editor if you can afford the Essence.

And that's it.

>>50470388
Why wouldn't it have room for graveyards? There's plenty of space with a population that low filling such a large area. American cities aren't very dense, doubly so with Shadowrun's reduced population numbers.

Anyway, I'd expect over 50% to get cremated, and most of the SINless to end up in public burn piles, ghoul bellies, or getting chopped for organs.

>>50470379
Cyber Eyes with a smartlink. That's probably the only "must have" but you may as well pick up some other low essence cost things. It's expensive but maybe get a partial cyberskull and fill it's capacity with a rating 4 radar sensor to see through walls (remember to put a Math spu in you as well to get full advantage, at that point it becomes a videogame minimap/radar).

>>50470533
I thought about suggesting muscle toner, but adept already have boost attribut(agi) for that, and that's arguably more efficient.

>>50470609
oh and if you can swing it financially, Cerebellum booster for initiative overkill.

What do you guys think of including not-disease-based undead in the game?
I'm thinking of throwing a SUPER FUCKING CURSED guy at the players who literally cannot die unless some conditions are met.

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>>50470848
Ehhhh. Shadowrun explicitly does not have undead, with the exception of that time you have to fight Jewish ghosts to retrieve Nazi gold. No particular reason you couldn't fluff it as a toxic spirit's Pact of Life though.

>>50470714
The extra initiative from INT wouldn't stack with improved reflexes, as IR cannot be improved with initiative enhancement from magical or technological means.
They'd still get the extra dodge die though.

>>50470646
Has the issue of not being permanent, taking time to turn on, etc
A good way to go is get muscle toner 2, then put a point into attribute boost so you've always got +2 agi, and then use attribute boost if you need it to hit your augmented max.

>>50470909

Well, he could be a cursed immortal.

>>50470646
Attribute Boost takes actions to activate, doesn't provide a reliable bonus, and causes you to take Background Count penalties.

Muscle Toner 4 is always on, is unaffected by background count, and costs less than the equivalent of 1 PP, even Used.

It's a no brainer.

Is going to a suspicious meet for a johnson and recovering the goods enough substance for a run?
I mean, it's much lighter on the legwork side, having no building to infiltrate and all that. I'm looking to make runs that I can finish in a single session.

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>>50471743
That'd make me pretty paranoid. Depending what your players are used to, maybe have their fixer vouch for the Johnson.
"Guy shows up now and then asking for a quick job, no questions asked. Always tight lipped about the details. Never seen him throw a team more than they could bite off and chew. One of my more reliable clients if you look at it that way."

>>50471743
How short is a session for you, normally?

>>50472082
four hours at tops

>>50472031
Well, since these are almost universally going to end in running gunfights, a bit of paranoia would be good.

>>50472031
>quick job, no questions asked. Always tight lipped about the details
Last time a Johnson said something similar to my team we ended up stealing three Ares police tanks.

I'd pass on this job.

>>50472299
This. Runners live and die on details.

The game's catchphrase might as well be "it was supposed to be a simple job!", so if you find yourself believing that your job will be a breeze, then pinch yourself, wake up, and take a closer look.

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Query.

If a troll who is at the time wearing some light ballistic armour, and then perhaps a grenade happened detonate whilst in his stomach, would the extra padding and armour make the explosion LESS lethal (absorbing some of the impact) or MORE lethal (armour + bone shrapnel) potentially speaking to those unfortunate enough to be within a certain proximity of this unfortunate gentlemen.

Say, in a elevator, for instance.

Chew your food, kids.

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>>50473219
Chunky salsa rule dictates the shockwave rebounds back into the troll when it encounters his armor and continues to do so until the radius is reached, reducing the troll to his constituent atoms. Passengers in the elevator (but outside the trolls body) are unharmed.

>>50473219
>ballistic armour
ballistic armor does not protect against explosions.
It also does not necessarily work both ways.

Imo, he's a walking nail bomb.

>>50473219
The ballistic armor, at that point, serves to protect some of the people in the elevator from some of the damage, but causes him to suffer more from it, as it catches some of the shrapnel and keeps some of the concussive force partially contained.

>>50473354
Chunky salsa rule only applies if the shockwave has something to rebound against i.e. the wall isn't straight-up destroyed. Unless the troll sprung for a cevlar-and-concrete augmented stomach he's getting burst like a balloon.

And light ballistic armor is only so capable of stopping explosions. Point blank it doesn't matter which side it's on, that shit is probably getting near-vaporized

>>50464264
Anyone know why the Free! discount isn't working for gear et al? I'm trying to give my players a few free items starting out and it just isn't registering the discount at all.

>>50475870
Can't replicate it, how are you adding the items?

>>50470972
The INT should count because it raises the stat which is used to figure the base initiative modifier, I'm pretty sure when it talks about not stacking with initiative modifiers it's talking about the dice and things that directly add onto your initiative score like move by wire to prevent people doing retarded shit like have a burnout adept with wired reflexes 1 move by wire 1, synaptic accelerator 1 and Improved reflexes 1.

On the muscles toner, you are 100% correct

>>50475939
Check under Drones and Vehicles. It seems to be working for gear; I misspoke and must now commit sudoku.

>>50476126
Whups, fixed in the latest nightly.

Question about an enemy mage NPC. Staff with buttstock and foregrip: Yes or yes?
>>50470848
That sounds cool.

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>>50476901
I'll grab tomorrow's then. Tonight's Nightly keeps crashing on me.

Beginning to think I took a Gremlins quality...

>>50477289
What's the error?

>>50477338
Same thing that was happening to >>50464600

I reverted to last night's and it worked fine aside from the aforementioned Drones & Vehicle snafu.

My group uses the Life Module character creation system from Run Fast and everyone loves it. Was wondering if anyone knows of any books that add more nation modules. Chrome Flesh, Data Trails and Rigger 5.0 all add more modules, but none of them add any new nationalities. As it stands, my group is stuck with UCAS, CAS, Tir or NAN as their nationalities.

How well can a two person game work? I've got two players lined up, and if I want more I'm going to have to go outside of real life friends and get internet randos.

What level a contact is someone you beat/intimidate for information once every few weeks?
Or is there a better systen for keeping track of your rogue's gallery?

>>50478345
Definitely Connection X/ Loyalty 1.

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>>50478345
I'd suggest using Blackmail from Run Faster to represent that.

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>>50473219

>>50478345
One purchased with the better to be feared than loved quality

>>50473219
Everyone in the elevator is dead. Small space, troll shrapnel, and whatever gear he has on ensures that.

>>50468836
People use computers, but most users are tech illiterate and only ever use them for kikebook/news.

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>>50470909
>that time you have to fight Jewish ghosts to retrieve Nazi gold

Is that the thing from War! ? Or is there another Jewghost thing out there in SR canon?

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>>50477023
Probably should be using a rod, unless he wants to walk around looking like one of Wellington's redcoats.

>>50477931
Don't think so, but nationalities are dead easy to make up with life modules.

>>50478296
You can try getting internet folk, it's not like there's a shortage of them, and some are alright.

Otherwise they're going to need lots of NPC support. As a rule, a party needs to cover the three main areas of Physical, Magical, and Matrix security - you need a specialist in each area, and typically a secondary support who can help in another area in a different way. A mage who can also face, an adept who punches dudes and spirits, a decker with an Ingram Smartgun, etc.

Only two people gives them very little to work with to come up with plans or to fall back on when things don't go according to plan. I personally wouldn't run that game.

>>50482155
>>50478296
It could work, if one of them plays a stealth-focused (Mystic-optional)Adept, and the other plays a Decker who either doesn't go in or is also focused on stealth.

They'll be fucked if they run into a serious combat, probably, but it could work, in theory.

>>50482155
>Probably should be using a rod, unless he wants to walk around looking like one of Wellington's redcoats.
Point. Plus, you can't fit a staff in a violin case.

>>50478296
The best option is probably a Conjurer Face (with a CHA tradition), combined with a Decker who carries Automatics. As the GM, you'd need to offer NPC support through purchasable muscle and infiltration.

Remember that as the GM, you should provide the type of runs which can struggle and eventually succeed to accomplish, not fuck them over for only having two people. Shadowrun really shines with 3-4 players, though.

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>>50478296
It'll work fine with a bit of attention to shoring up the roles their characters don't cover.
If you don't mind cranking out npcs, it could be fun to let them shop around for support before each job. E.g. if neither character can perform matrix support, allow them to choose between a few different deckers willing to subcontract with them. More skilled and trustworthy deckers can demand a higher fee, cutting into profits but giving the party more options in executing the run and better odds of succeeding.

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>>50484251
Fo you think a getaway rigger and a gunbunny could work?

>>50478296
As long as one of them is a mage/face, and the other is a street samurai/physical infiltrator, and they have a high-Loyalty 'Contact' who's a Decker, it should work out alright.

Otherwise, they'll have obvious holes in their ability to deal with challenges.

So joining the UCAS military is like joining Japan's military today, right? As in, you're probably never going to see actual combat?

Who does the UCAS military fight that police or corporate security don't already keep in line?

I'm asking for a character who has a UCAS military background. I specifically don't want him to have been required to be a corp gun or mercenary in order to have to have had prior combat experience.

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>when you just want to do some Barren jobs so you can reenact your Mad Max/Fist of the North Star dreams but the other party ain't having that shit

Feels bad.

>>50484874
A UCAS soldier's life is filled with about as much excitement as a deployed solider today. Long bouts of boredom with the occasional pants-shitting moment. There are borders to patrol, terrorism cells to stomp down, very large and dangerous creatures to exterminate. There are also joint operations with corporations in moving or protecting goods/people in transit, hunting down runners who likely fall into the "terrorist" category, and putting down the occasional riot when the SINless get uppity. Despite the jigsaw nature of terrestrial borders, there is actually a lot of action to be had as a soldier in any military, especially the UCAS'.

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>>50484399
>>50484399
Anything can work if you tailor the job to them. That said, I tend to view both of those roles as secondary so they wouldn't be my first choices for a two-person party. A street sam would be more effective than a gunbunny in this group because they can more reliably survive being shot and have plenty of room for ware to double up on roles. Getaway rigger is imo too niche for a group this small, but they may be able to get by with it as a secondary role, though it may even be too niche for that given how small the party is.

Our SR 5 group doesn't have a decker, partly because no-one at the table wants to learn the hacking rules, including the GM. I have already spent dozens of hours on them and after many headaches concluded that they are not what we want.

I want to give my GM and group some advice on running a game that minimizes our exposure to the hacking rules. We are not terribly attached to matrix or setting lore, and nobody wants to play a decker or technomancer.

>>50485775
easy. Have a NPC/contact that is a hacker. The group pays him to do hacking things when they need him to. Then the GM just decides when a hacking thing is successful or not.

"Oh no the shitcurity system has locked and bolted all the doors in the building! HackerMan, can you open some of these doors so we can fight our way out?" and so on.

>>50484874
Here are the wars that the UCAS (and pre-UCAS USA) participated in differently from our timeline:
>2005 - Korean War
>2016 - Indian War
>2031 - Euro War, I believe, back when NATO was still limping along

But since then, UCAS's military has mainly been deployed internally. Gang wars, border security, cracking down on smugglers, and so on.

As a UCAS soldier, the most likely battle for you to have taken part in is - for example - the time you stood the line fighting against a paramilitary smuggler battalion armed with automatic weapons and grenade launchers trying to cross from Sioux territory to UCAS.

Or being sent in to quarantine neighborhoods of a city (LA before it left the union, Chicago, Boston, etc) and shoot anything that tries to get out.

Or engaging in a vast multitude of antiterrorism operations.

That's the kind of 'war' that the UCAS military fights. You definitely see action. It's just that the UCAS doesn't do actual wars anymore.

>>50473219

I imagine the GM would turn to one "lucky" fucker and say:

"So you wake up in a haze. It seems you're in a hospital bed wrapped head to toe in bandages. Two diagnostic displays nearby show a chest xray and a head xray, both filled with what looks like shrapnel. Then you notice you can't feel your arms or legs."

>>50484874
Reminder it was the UCAS military that went and liberated people from the Renkaru Arcology. So nah, you'll be seeing combat. It just won't be a war, it'll be a stupid metaplot event where <location name> is taken over by <vilain name> and you must either wall it off or liberate those trapped within

>>50486704
Can countries even have wars anymore? I know the Am-Az war was a thing, but could corporations still stop a war between countries if those countries had sufficient popular support and drive behind them?

>>50486799
Historically, they've never really tried to. They just make it so that the corporations' conflicts are the more important part compared to the nation-states.

>>50485775
>>50485850
This. You have a high-Loyalty Contact who's an NPC member of the team the same way the Fixer is - hell, maybe it's actually the fucking Fixer, even. There's certain enough narrative support for the mastermind also being the computer guy.

Then, that NPC gets a cut of any jobs where you call on their hacking ability, the same as any other crew member.

Why is shadowrun so contrary to its genre references, even to the point of missing out on good shit?

There are no robot dudes, and the question of machine rights is hardly looked at in depth. This cuts out all sorts of delucious robo riots.
The attemp at that plotlune gets fucked by being bodyjacking zombies.
Undead are also weirdly fucked, allbeing some kind of superpowered disease sufferers, removing plotlunes involving super fucking cursed ghosts and shit.
Clone soldiers are a thing, but it is met with almost no hooplah and without investigating themes of humans grown for war coming into society or being culled.
All the weird critters are different from popular depictions for no apparent reason other than difference for difference's sake.

Shit could be hitting the fan all the time nonstop with the setting elements provided, but the writers bend over backwards tokeep times of great upheaval and change in the backstory.

I don't know, I feel like the setting is so close to hitting those classic feelings and having plots centering on the dehumanization and unrest, but they fail to actuallyhit that high point and are entirely reliant on gms breaking cannon here and there tomake shit more fucked up and riotous.

Am I alone in this feeling? I want a cyberpunk settung with magic, but I don't like how generally stable the cyberpunk parts are, and how the magic parts miss fantastical weirdness, instead hitting the "my elves are different" valley between familiarity and novelness.

>>50486799
Corps could stop wars if they wanted. They just don't want to.

>>50487028
>There are no robot dudes, and the question of machine rights is hardly looked at in depth. This cuts out all sorts of delucious robo riots.
I would love if they had Blade Runner shit in Shadowrun, yeah. I wish that was the metaplot event they went with instead of CFD - introducing androids/replicants as a legit player option, and then all the social bullshit that follows.

>Undead are also weirdly fucked, allbeing some kind of superpowered disease sufferers, removing plotlunes involving super fucking cursed ghosts and shit.
In this case you don't know what you're talking about. HMHVV doesn't have shit to do with undead other than being named Vampires. The role of the undead, in-setting, is played by Shedim, Spirits of Man who personify dead individuals, cyberzombies, and digital ghosts, depending on which aspects of undeath you want to examine.

>Shit could be hitting the fan all the time nonstop with the setting elements provided, but the writers bend over backwards tokeep times of great upheaval and change in the backstory.
Because the status quo sells books. Every time they've seriously disrupted the status quo, people have thrown bitchfits. People are fine when it's a single arcology getting taken over, or a single city getting invaded by insect spirits.

But people lose their goddamn minds when setting-wide things happen, like the wireless matrix, or SURGE, or CFD. Anything that touches the setting, as a whole, will do NOTHING but alienate the player base - so everything is a stagnating status quo, with things only happening on the micro-rather than macro, scale these days.

>>50487098
Man I would love some blade runner shit so bad.
And fuck the stagnation, shit shoukd be in a constant state of popping off.
Riots. Chaos. Gestappo. Mob burning. Assasinations. Mechanized peacekeepers. All the good shit.

>>50487155
>Riots. Chaos. Gestappo. Mob burning. Assasinations. Mechanized peacekeepers. All the good shit.
Right, yeah, that's the stagnant status quo. That shit's happening all the time - as the norm - while nothing ever changes.

And on the rare occasion where things do change, fans lose their goddamn minds, because they like the stagnation.

Shadowrun's a show that's been on too long to have its status quo changed up anymore. It's too many seasons in.

>>50487220
Man I can't even remember the last time food riots got so out of control production had to stop and political power shifted. Or even when the military comes in.

>ghoul plague not taking over entire cities
>Bug invasions cordoned off to a few blocks
>Matrix authorities in impenetrable safespaces
>Warlords and preachers do not give corps a run for their money
>Leaking secrets to the public does nothing
I do think some things could be improved

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Question for you guys regarding vehicle mods. Would you say it's more logical to have the item capacity show as a filling or emptying value? As is, we show it as 0/3 modification slots used. Would you consider it better to be 3/3 modification slots remaining?

>>50487660
I would probably show remaining slots, because that's what people are going to be most interested in - whether or not they can cram more rice into that slot.

That should be the convention everywhere IMO - you show Karma Remaining, Skill points/groups remaining, Complex forms remaining, Nuyen remaining, Capacity remaining... It's just natural to have this be capacity remaining as well.

Consistency = good UX

What's the toughest combat-focused elf you could make in 5e? Assuming character creation and not prime runner or anything.

>>50487994
Toughest, like, hardest to kill? Best able to soak damage?

>>50488188
Yes. I'm interested in seeing how tough you can make an elf and how it would stack up to the other metas in that regard. Not likely to play it but I did have an idea for a character that grew up in a more ork/troll-heavy neighborhood. School of hard knocks and that.

>>50488319
Body 6.

Four full cyberlimbs, each with Rating 3 Armor.

Pain Editor.

Platelet Factories.

Then you toss on an Armor Jacket and a Helmet.

You're looking at something like 28 armor and a soak pool of 34, the ability to ignore all wound penalties and stay awake even with full Stun, and ignore 1 Physical every time you take 2+ Physical, if they somehow overcome your armor.

Whether you're an Ork/Dwarf/Troll has a relatively minor bearing on how physically tough you are, because Body doesn't have nearly as big of an impact on soaking/damage negation as, say, Strength does on melee damage.

Why is it that if I throw armor over an armored cyborg, the armor stacks, but if I throw the same armor over say, a car door, or a robut, it does not stack?

Is there any reason besides game balance?

>>50488486
different kind of armor
limb armor is just normal armor, in that it increases your resistance pool and determines Stun/Physical
Vehicle armor is Hardened Armor, deducts immediately before Soak and if you don't get over it it does nothing
which is why drones have small armor, but are still resistant

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>>50488374
Throw on some Securetech PPP armor kits for another +3 armor total. If you have the karma/money to spend, get Restricted Gear and buy a Zoe Executive Suite armored suit (12 armor) along with a Zoe Second Skin (+2 armor when worn underneath or 6 armor by itself). Of course, after all that you are going to be looking like pic related.

>>50488524
but like
what if I want to hang an armored jacket on my roto drone?

>>50488486
Because fucking deal with it. Not everything needs to be overanalyzed.

>>50488530
The Vitals kit doesn't stack with an Armored Jacket.

>>50488555
anon, if it doesn't need to be overanalyzed because it's just game stuff, just go "yep, game balance".

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>>50487098

Has anyone done replicants in Shadowrun before? Because fuck the canon setting.

I don't suppose anybody is running some SR games?

What best represents being completely unable to navigate to the point of getting lost if ever given a chance?
Like gremlins, but for finding directions.

What kind of place would the mafia be likely to hold the son of a high-ranking yak, if they captured him?
I'm thinking a warehouse or an office building, but I dunno which would be more appropriate, and I want it to be a challenging run.

Dude being kidnapped is the son of Hanzo Shotozumi, kidnapped by the Finnigan Family, and one of my players has a debt to the Yaks, so he'll be asked to do it free of charge(though the rest of the group will get a small reward for helping him.)

Also, if anybody has any decent warehouse/office building maps, I'd appreciate something to fill my map folder with.

>>50489189
Basement of that sandwich shop where they process their own meat.

>lots of civvies to watch out for
>plenty of furniture to take cover behind
>Sharp objects, hot grills, and other interesting clutter to make a firefight exciting
>Torture implements conveniently at hand for cutting of fingers and mailing them out

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>hit up casino
>end up robbing casino
>hey look, there's pink slips and keys in the vault
>everyone drives off in a stolen car
Given that the GM never specified what cars they were and that we already made real heavy bank on cleaning out the casino vault, what price range do you think our cars will be in? Need to have a rough guesstimate for I go in negotiating with the GM next week.

>>50489426
>stealing cars
>no mention of a Faraday cage
>no mention of taking digital ownership
I might have some bad news for you, anon...

>>50489642
The vault was in a Faraday cage and the decker wiped all the tags clean, don't worry. We made sure to wipe all our tracks clean.

>>50489255
So, what you're saying is, I should run Stuffer Shack?

>>50489777
Fast Food Fight, rather.

>>50489777
The lucky dubs indicate that you are correct.

>>50488374
>>50488530

Don't forget Bonelacing, for an additonal 2-4 soak and maybe 1-2 levels of Orhoskin plus the electric resistance mod for orthoskin and armor, for an additional 8 soak against tazershit

>>50488374
>>50488530
Pain edtior is already 18F. He needs his restricted gear quality for that.

For the best chargen-legal armor that doesn't need restricted gear, you want that cheesy Vashion Island combo from Run and Gun. I believe it's the synergist longcoat (+3, custom fit (stack)) over the sleeping tiger suit (13), with a custom ballistic mask for the helmet (+2).

It runs you 15,950 for armor rating 18 (same as the SWAT armor in core!) that's supposed to be presentable in a party and can jack up your social limits. You do need a bit of strength, 4 at minimum, to use the suit without penalties though. You can bump up the armor rating by 2 with gel packs (extra 1500), though that means you need 6 strength to avoid the penalty, you're easier to knock down, and you look a lot less subtle.

Please don't actually try this though.

>look at core rulebook
>only 2 submarines, neither quite to my liking
>check out Riggger 5.0
>no submarines
Were there any more submarines statted for 5e or is looking at older editions for reference my only option at this point?

>>50491076
Used Car Lot had some, I think. WAR! had a fucking retarded one for smuggling shit into Bogota.

>>50463862
Has chummer 5 been updated so I can use mentor spirits without it crashing yet?

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>>50491836
I found the new one and it works. Thanks yekka.

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>>50492007
It's always pleasant when I've apparently fixed something I didn't know was an issue.

>>50492133
Needs more spider tits.

>>50487028
Why would you want more cliches in a setting?

>>50491000
>Synergist longcoat + Sleeping Tiger

Everybody who does something like that should look up how the Sleeping Tiger was supposed to look in older editions.

One of those cases where rules don't cover every bullshit.
Would probably have people start laughing at a Char trying to pull this clothing Combo

Its also quite expensive and requires to much strenght investment in my opinion.
Just stick with one of the Ares Outdoor Armors that come with stock additional Protection, grab Forearm Guards, Helm or Mask and PPP for the legs. Gives you 16-17 (depending on the Base Armor) Armor + 4-6 against an elemental Attack of your choice while only requiring 3 Strength.

Alphaware plastic Bonelacing is also exceptionally cheap (both nuyen and essence) for the two additional soak they grant, allowing you to easily get 24 +- something Soak for Humans without a hassle, and potentially much more with tougher Metatypes and Orthoskin.


If you want to go full cheese:
4 Cyberlimbs with 3 Armor each
Orthoskin LvL 2 Alpha
Alphaware plastic bonelacing (you really want alpha and higher grades alpha require restricted gear)
the above mentioned armor
the antishock Mod for Orthoskin
Maybe the paint-on Nanoskin that grants +1 Armor
Body of 5

32 Armor, 38 Soak, 6 more against electrcial damage (potentiall against other elemental attacks to, but shock is imho the most dangerous and common one), fuckhuge Physical Track.
Get restricted Gear for Pain editor and maybe, if you can fit it in after getting some INI enhancements, the Genmod that works like a platelete fabric.
If you have some Karma over later in the Game, you could get Cyber singularity Seeker for an additional 2 Willpower, making you even more unkillable.

>>50494406
>Would probably have people start laughing at a Char trying to pull this clothing Combo
They don't have to laugh at them; ST is favoured by corp sellout trogs, and no one likes corp sellout trogs - tolerated by corps but rarely given the jobs they're angling for, hated by trogs more in tune with their "culture", and most others are somewhere between unsure to scared.

Does anyone know where I can find a list of all the books with Life Module options? I'm only aware of Run Faster, Rigger 5.0, Chrome Flesh, Data Trails and Hard Targets right now.

>>50495830
The Shadows in Focus books have some, that's about it that I'm aware of.

>>50494613
>implying most runners don't dress up like assholes anyway

>>50495996
Depends what you mean by asshole, and how much your setting veers to pink mohawk or black trenchcoat.

more PM = more shitty fashion choices, because fuck The Man!

more BT = shitty fashion choices only come out when they blend in

>>50489734
Wiping tags doesn't change ownership of a device anon.
"Cleaning" involves reseting digital ownership and burning out tags, otherwise you aren't considered an owner on the device and the proper owner can easily track you.

Newbie question: is Maria Mercurial still touring/active in 2076?

>>50497268
Based on some german source on the wiki she is working on a secondary career as a Trideo/Film star.

>>50497268
Core rulebook mentions her being alive and kicking in the setting description section under Music.

A profoundly stupid question, but I can't seem to dig up the answer. Gear restrictions at character creation, how do they work?

>>50498646
You cannot get anything above the listed number unless you get the Restricted Gear Quality.
R stands for Restricted, these requires licensess to be legally owned.
F stands for Forbidden, these are illegal.

>>50498646
No Availabilities above 12 unless you took the "restricted gear"(I think)-quality for it
No cyber-/bioware above alpha grade

>>50498692
>>50498712
Thanks chummers, I figured it was something like that.

>>50498646
SR5 page 94, under "Step Six, Spend your Resources"

>>50495996
>implying most runners aren't actually assholes anyway

It's about being true to the runner's inner self.

>>50498913
>not playing the "good person forced into a life of crime due to extreme circumstances" trope as often as you fucking can
omae.........

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>>50498913
>>50498946
>not being so chromed up that words like asshole and good no longer have meaning to you
>not having to come up with a list of ground rules like "don't murder civilians" and constantly remind yourself of them so you don't go completely nuts
>not being one stubbed toe away from death by essence loss

So, the description for Tools in the core rulebook says:
>Shops and facilities are both stocked with standard spare parts.

Does that mean that, when using a Shop or Facility, you don't have to pay the cost of spare parts when performing repairs? Because that sounds like the authorial intent to me, and that changes Rigger viability in my eyes.

>>50499989
Depends on the parts. From my IRL experience with Automotive Mechanic Shops, finding a replacement tire is easy, but they're going to have to order that specific piece in the engine for that 15-year-old car.

I would say to link the availability of spare parts with the Threshold of your repairing test (like 6-12 you have the parts, 13-15 you might have the parts, 16+ you'll have to buy them)

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>>50499414
>when you're at 0.01Ess loaded up with bone lacing, muscle replacement, cybereyes and synaptic boosters and a ghoul manages to bite you

>>50500773
The SR 5 rules for the essence drain power (p 396) seem a little more lenient than that. It seems like the creature would need to have you subdued or mind-controlled for several minutes just to use it.

Also, I'm not even sure if the creature would get much from the exchange. Draining 0.01 essence out of someone doesn't sound very appetizing. It'd be like trying to suck out the contents of a used juice box. If I was a vampire, I'd go for the mage, face, or decker first so that I could have a more substantial meal.

Ghouls don't even have the essence drain power. They just eat metahuman flesh to survive. So they'd probably just eat a cyber-sammy the old-fashioned way, spitting out any bits of 'ware they happen to chomp on.

>>50501089
The issue isn't that you get essence drained, it's getting infected and turning into a ghoul from the highly infectious bite/claws, which makes you lose 1 essence.

Sup /tg/?

I'm starting up a campaign for a few friends of mine using 5e. I've only ever played/GMed 4e though, so are there any pitfalls I should especially look out for and are there any books that are just plain terrible like Runner's Companion was for 4e?

>>50489129
Having no knowledge skills for areas or navigation skills.

>>50496949
Hm, I'll have to remind our decker of that little detail shortly before our next session and have him work the kinks out with the GM.

Semi-related: if I want to drop a whole lot of nuyen improving the suspension of my GMC Phoenix (which I had bought previously, so no tag worries) and plunk a heavy machine gun in there too, is it reasonable to assume that my fixer will be able to make the necessary arrangements with a chop shop and arms dealer for a small commission fee from those parties, or should I be looking to pick up a chop shop and arms dealer as contacts?

>>50502242
Yeah, resetting ownership is a Log+Hardware[Mental](24, 1 hour) test
If you glitch during it the item sends a report to the authorities/owner, a crit glitch destroys the item.

>>50502434
>(24, 1 hour)
Man, our decker is going to be busy. We stole 6 cars!

>>50502492
My group stole the milspec armour off a Sioux wildcat after knocking him out.
I got a glitch on the test with 11 dice.

>>50502522
Oh lawd, there must've hell to pay for that.

>>50486120
Don't forget about the annual "desert wars" that corps and countries use to show off new gear and tactics.

My good little boy has a real SIN of the good ol UCAS and he wants to get himself a real gun license for a gun to keep at home.
I can't find any rules for real licenses in any of the books. Would it be cheaper? Take as long to obtain as the fake at highest rating? Would it come free as part of the lifestyle he has tied to his real SIN? Being legit confuses me, chummers.

>>50503666
There are no rules for legal licenses. It's 100% GM fiat, whether it even has a fee, or if the only downside is that there's an official record following you now.

>>50503666
They're free, yeah.

What would be the best way to describe someone's ability to gamble and cheat?
I want to play a HIGH STAKES cheater.

>>50504266
Daredevil, loads of Edge, Thrillseeker. This is just stuff I can come up with on the top of my head.

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So according to Shadowrun: Anarchy, Horizon was responsible for a massacre in Los Angeles.

What the fuck happened there?

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>>50504266
A face with high Palming and Con comes to mind.

>>50504266
Uh. Gambling as a knowledge skill? Tied to logic/intuition? Or a shit ton of edge I guess.

>>50504339
>>50504328
>>50504308
hm, close as I can come, I guess.
Now I just need to enforce HIGH STAKES gambling over run items.
Assuming people don't go for that, I might have to start strapping bombs to things.

>>50504349
You could always make a deepweed addicted vampire hunter for the HIGH STAKES.

>>50504372
goddamnit anon I can't afford new sides

>>50504349
>strapping bombs to things
Don't be that guy.

>>50504424
well, I got to find some way to force the narrative into high stakes gambling matches.

>>50504349
Offer enemies to play russian roulette. Cheat.

How would you feel, as a player, if your GM introduced aliens midway into a campaign as the big twist?

>>50504719
I think shadowrun could do a decent X-com squad simulator.

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>>50504457
Man, using that cylinder selector during Russian Roulette would be a dick move.

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>KE or Lone Star: Which are less squishy.thread

>Knight Errant, modern day knights dedicated to upholding the ideals of truth, justice and honour, who saved the world from an invasion of alien bug monsters vs Lone Star, a pack of illiterate, doughy thugs who spend their time betting up metahuman kids whenever they aren't stuffing their faces with soy doughnuts.

I think the choice is clear, fellow chum.

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>>50505327
>modern day knights dedicated to upholding the ideals of truth, justice and honour

t. Damien

I hope the dwarf gets your job

I'm reading about licenses/permits in various books throughout various editions and its implied sometimes that a license for a certain profession gives permission to carry some restricted gear.

I was thinking of real life examples- like a special agent for the IRS being authorized to carry a service pistol when on duty. Am I right to assume the same for Shadowrun game rules or does everyone have to get a license/permit for every single piece of equipment with an R next to its availability?

>>50463862
I'm not versed enough in modern/cyberpunk literature to come up with a detailed BG for my PC but I also have a GM that's focused on RP. How do I get good and come up with a good backstory for a barrens rat that wants to live in an ivory tower one day? Is there any good literature on something like that?

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>>50505653
I think RAW you need to have a license for every restricted piece of gear, and broader licenses allow you to be a thing - a mage needs a mage license just to walk around with mojo and do anything like assensing, but also requires licenses for each foci, etc.

I've seen it played more broadly, though. Depends on how the GM wants to do it, and how much they think you need to invest in every license.

>>50505730
Yikes. Good thing I'm taking first turn as GM in my group. I'll set the precedent where that is ok. It'll make for good roleplaying anyway, them coming up with interesting reasons as to why they are on the job at odd hours in places they normally shouldn't be.

>>50505730
>I think RAW you need to have a license for every restricted piece of gear
Nope. Broad licenses exist for things like 'firearms,' 'concealed carry,' and 'automatic weapons.' You only need to buy each once to apply to anything that falls into that category.

In order to carry around an SMG which you carry in a concealed holster, for example, you'd need all three of those licenses - but they'd apply to anything else that falls under that too.

>>50505642
>I hope the dwarf gets your job
Was that the ork who wanted some CHOICE ASS?

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What are some ways to use obvious cyberskulls to their best?
because, well, I'm going to be using them a lot.

>>50504325
Tl;dr: horizon was pretending to be techno friendly but was actually torturing them
This is why evo is best megacorp

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>>50506217
Also, is it possible to ditch the whole "two eyes" thing entirely and just go for nonhuman layouts?

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>>50506240
There is alternate eye cyberware in Chrome Flesh, if you want stuff like bug eyes, eyes in the back of your head, etc.

>>50506280
Would people really be okay being around a person who could be recording you at any time? Even in the presumably dystopian cyberpunk future, that seems like a massive intrusion of privacy.

>>50506280
I am so into this
>>50506328
I will gladly take the -2 social penalty in exchange for ALL THE EYES

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>>50505653
You can bundle some items or activities together under the same license. The goal is having your SIN look plausible when you get detained and scanned while carrying a bunch of illicit shit. My face/biosam has the following licenses on her fake SIN:

>object licenses
Firearms
Ballistic Armor
Restricted RFID Equipment

>activity licenses
Driving
Concealed Carry

>professional licenses
Locksmith
Security Consultant

Talk to your GM about their expectations.

>>50506449
>driving license
Betcha the vast majority of players forget that little gem.

>>50506514
I would bet that a vast majority of GM's don't punish players for not having SINs until they need to buy a carton of smokes from the Stuffer Shack.

>>50506514
I think it's oft overlooked because of how pervasive GridGuide is.

>>50500773
>muscle replacement
>not making cyberlimbs work, so you can legit point out that the ghoul only chewed up your cyber

>>50506514
Driving licenses aren't necessary unless you really want the PC to drive manually. Pilot Programs will assist and restrict your driving habits, or take over the process entirely.

>>50506578
It's not illegal to not broadcast your SIN in most places, though law enforcement will likely check you have one when passing.
Certified credsticks exist within the system to pay when doing this.

>>50506328
People are OK with it now. Literally anything that happens in a public or semi-public place is going to be recorded by more than 1 camera these days.

The future is now, we just didn't notice because the cars aren't flying.

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>>50506601
>not immediately self-dismembering and using your implanted commlink to place an order for a new limb to be grown in your street-doc's illegally co-opted vat

I'm trying to research considerations for a character with a CORPORATE SIN. So far I have:

Your blood, retina, prints, dna, etc are on file at that corp. They probably even have a ritual sample for you. Do NOT do runs against them!
Remember that a corporate SIN means you can purchase anything legal by legal means. Also, you should, so that periodic computerized screenings of your SIN don't notice any suspicious long halts in activities.
Never do anything illegal without your gloves and clean your gear with them on before any run. Wear your mask and contacts, cover any other distinguishing features. If you can find a way to mask your aura, do it. Try to get the blood sample on file for your real SIN (and only the blood sample) changed to someone who has never been convicted and is in a retirement home asap. You're gonna leave a bloodstain somewhere doing something illegal eventually, better have it linked to a fake SIN.
Do a bit of consulting work here and there for peanuts on mom and pop places to have people that can vouch for income from legit sources. Make sure to claim enough income on your tax return to justify your real SIN purchases. Your "legit" income needs to be enough to cover the purchases and the taxes.

Anything I'm forgetting that jumps out at you guys?

>>50506963
>They probably even have a ritual sample for you
Both this and the corporate SIN itself mean you have to be someone relatively important and/or not simply replaceable. Keep in mind who that is, and why they're not just going dropping shadowrunning like the surefire way to get killed it is, when shit hits the fan.

>Never do anything illegal without your gloves and clean your gear with them on before any run. Wear your mask and contacts, cover any other distinguishing features
Get a gimp suit. FFBA with YNT Softweave can be worn under anything, and you can install a saviour medkit into it. Save your life and keep you from leaving evidence behind. Softweave Ballistic mask hangs like a loose turtleneck until you need it.

>so that periodic computerized screenings of your SIN don't notice any suspicious long halts in activities
You will have to maintain some kind of normal life, with either a cover reason for not working, or a cover job that doesn't require a lot of on-site presence. Either that, or you go underground and don't use your corpborn SIN at all, which means your corp will be looking for you. You're important, remember?

>Make sure to claim enough income on your tax return to justify your real SIN purchases
Use a trust fund of some sort. Either the quality, or use some contact points to establish that it's a thing that has relevance to the game.

>>50507560
*ritual sample
Should have said; while corps keep samples on almost everyone with a SIN, most are chemically preserved, which makes them useless for ritual magic. Ritual samples are frozen, and you have to warrant a ritual sample by being a mage, ceo, high level researcher, etc.

>>50507560
So the best asset is that the character doesn't matter enough? I like it.

I never even knew such attire existed and it's lookin' pretty sexy. But how do I add the savior medkit to it?

>>50507794
Precisely the opposite - to be a person with this SIN type, stored ritual samples held against you, etc, you have to matter somehow within your corporation.

From there you have two polarising decisions.
Hide from your corp, who may look for you, but will give you greater freedom. This can be hampered by ritual magic being used against you.
Or attempt to deceive your corp, which will eat into your resources and time in other ways, and may be seen as a betrayal if uncovered.

Medkits require 5 capacity in a single armour item.

How would an adept go about forming a pact with a free spirit if they can't cast rituals?

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>>50504457
>>50504961
>challenge targets to russian roulette
>don't tell them about the ammo skip system

The examples listed in the CRB for Assensing specializations are:

-Aura reading
-Astral signatures
-by type (e.g. metahuman, spirits, foci, etc.)

I thought aura reading would include anything that has an aura but my GM argues that I would need to clarify what TYPE of aura I'm trying to assense.

What exactly would count as Aura reading?

Just a short rant.

Playing Shadowrun, outside of the video games, for the first time. The GM told me if its a character I can think of, I'm allowed to make it. I made a character based on the repoman from Repo! The Genetic Opera. The whole surgeon who cuts people open for their organs, repossessing them when the person defaults on their payments. As a side business, he's also a street doc. I made him very handy with blades, as well as decent with pistols because I feel that melee combat might be problematic for characters not jacked up with cyberware or adept powers.

When I presented the character to the GM, the character was denied. I was informed that the type of character I made wouldn't fit in with the rest of the Shadowrun universe. Something about how corporations wouldn't sink to hiring repomen to kill people and repossess organs.

Alright, fine. So I made a new character. This one is a martial artist from Japan. He's a physical adept who focuses on unarmed combat, as well as blades. He's based on wushu martial arts films, such as Hero, House of Flying Daggers and so on. Very flashy and visually stunning. This character was also denied, with the GM saying that such a character is impractical.

My third attempt was a ganger who broke into shadowrunning. I figured a character who wasn't based on anything would get approved. He's a bit of a pyro, having been a Halloweener. He even has a contact within the gang still. Again, character denied. The GM saying that a ganger would never become a shadowrunner because it's too big of a leap from ganger to shadowrunner.

So I'm a bit annoyed right now, not sure what to do. Three characters and all three denied. The third one being a character I tried to perfectly fit in the Shadowrun world as I know it. Not sure what the GM wants. He told me I could make any character I wanted and then denied my first three attempts.

>>50511615
Your GM is a cunt. Concept 1 is totally something that Tamanous or another organized crime group would employ, Concept 2 is basically the standard weapon adept, and Concept 3 shows that your GM probably doesn't even know what a shadowrunner actually is, to think that there's some huge barrier to entry.

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>>50511615
>The whole surgeon who cuts people open for their organs, repossessing them when the person defaults on their payments.
There are street gangs that do this, but a corp is more likely to just have you killed or forget about you because the cost of the bioware is pretty much insignificant

>This one is a martial artist from Japan. He's a physical adept who focuses on unarmed combat, as well as blades. He's based on wushu martial arts films, such as Hero, House of Flying Daggers and so on. Very flashy and visually stunning.
Critical Strike (unarmed)+Killing Hands, carry a katana for show and to challenge people to honurubu bushido duels or whatever, and the missile mastery or w/e it's called power make this not only practical but EXTREMELY lethal in just about all circumstances. It's also an extremely common character archetype in shadowrun

>The GM saying that a ganger would never become a shadowrunner because it's too big of a leap from ganger to shadowrunner.
"I kill people and break shit for fun and pocket change" is just one or two points of AGI and LOG below "I kill people and break shit for Mr. Johnson"

Your GM is retarded and you should probably kill him and take his place.

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>>50511615
>My GM doesn't know anything about Shadowrun, help me

>>50511550
I'm just having trouble understanding the clarification for aura reading. Any help is greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance!

>>50511881
>>50511905

He changed his reasoning about the ganger when I showed him the Sprawl Ganger example character from the core rulebook. He said it's now because he plans on tossing Halloweeners at us and that a former Halloweener could cause problems. I offered to change his gang affiliantion and still got a no, however.

I'm now convinced this is payback because I kept denying his stupidly overpowered Deathwatch characters that he made.

>>50511953
>He said it's now because he plans on tossing Halloweeners at us and that a former Halloweener could cause problems.
>expressly denying a character that comes complete with a 100% free built-in and completely reasonable plot hook guaranteed to come up in normal play

>>50511983
And he's the kind of guy who makes characters who can take out Daemon Princes (In the case of Deathwatch) or Gods (In the case of D&D and Pathfinder) at 1st level, completely ignoring character creation rules. He feels his character creation style is fine because he turns over 200+ page documents of character backstory explaining WHY his characters are bad ass god killers who make One Punch Man look weak.

>>50511615
All of those characters are playable, except perhaps the first (because you'd be splitting your chargen resources between npc and player skills). Your GM is just being an ass.

>>50511615
Seconding the opinion that your GM is a cunt. My group features a Viking warrior, a bunraku turned pornstar turned Yakuza assassin, a decker based so much on Mr.Robot that it's hard to find a single point of difference, a japanese-canadian mage, an ork rigger that's so underground that she literally lives underground, and Scarface in a tank. Every concept is fine.

>>50511550
I thought it was like you're good at all aura reading, or you're good at all astral signatures, or you're good at both for a single metatype. There isn't a lot else to do with assensing, so that's the only way that makes sense.

>>50511550
>>50511952
First impression is that there's been a copy/paste error-between-seat-and-keyboard style lack of rule knowledge occurrence. ie; it's like "by type", but 10,000% better. I'd ignore it.

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>>50512016
He's not going to be happy until you turn in Adam Jensen without a SIN. I can't offer any advice other than get a GM that hasn't taken so many blows to the head.

>>50512017
We use the Life Module system, the GM in question insists on it because it 'works background into stats and skills'. So what I did was have the character be a UCAS citizen of Denver, then I took the Arcology Living and Corporate Education options. For further education, Ivy League with Medicine Discipline. For real life I did Corporate (Company Man) and then Organized Crime. With my left over karma, I rounded out his skills and attributes, then converted the rest into money for use on Bioware (I didn't see the character as the type to go for Cyberware) and gear.

>>50511615
Those character concepts (as presented here) are not a problem. I think your GM just doesn't like you, but doesn't have the balls to bring it up directly. Or there's more to this.

>>50512126
As I've said, I've denied his characters in other games for breaking character creation rules, which he justified with 200+ pages of backstory. I'm normally the GM because most of the time no one else is interested.

However, he's really into Shadowrun and convinced the rest of the group to try it after I mentioned wanting to pick up the core rulebook. He volunteered to GM, since no one else knew the system. He accepted the other three players' characters, a Nocturna Sniper, Gnome Decker and Centaur Street Samurai.

I'm becoming positive the reason for all the rejections is because of the fact I've denied so many of his characters before. Not going to apologize for denying his characters either, there's no reason for a 1st Level Pathfinder Character to have 50 in all of their attributes and a shit ton of magical weapons and equipment that boosts the stats even further.

>>50512066
>>50512126
He's not that bad of a guy outside of RPGs. We play Warhammer 40k together, as well as MTG (Mostly Commander). It's a good friend of mine, knew him since 3rd grade. It's just something about RPGs brings out the asshole in him.

>>50512150
>he okays a fucking centaur but has a problem with your characters
Yeah, fuck that guy.

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>>50512150
>Centaur Street Samurai
>1st Level Pathfinder Character to have 50 in all of their attributes and a shit ton of magical weapons and equipment

I choose to believe that this person isn't real

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>>50512817

>>50512817
>>50512834
He's real. He's just very difficult to deal with when it comes to RPGs.

>>50512239
>He's not that bad of a guy outside of RPGs
Stop playing RPGs with them. Pick activities that do not cause them to become worse than Hitler.

>>50513293
He's not worse than Hitler either. That's taking things a bit far. He's just a jackass when we play RPGs.

>>50513529
So equal to one standard unit of Hitler, then?

>>50513529
I'm pretty sure Hitler would've had the decency to follow the character creation rules instead of writing 200 pages of bullshit to justify him ignoring the character creation rules.

>>50513583
He would have kept pushing for more house rules, seeing how far he could grab for power before anyone objected.

>>50513654
And when they started objecting, he'd make himself the GM.

>>50513654
>>50513716
>his characters in other games [broke] character creation rules, [and were denied]
>he's really into Shadowrun and convinced the rest of the group to try it
>He volunteered to GM, since no one else knew the system.
Story checks out, must be Hitler.

>>50513529
He's objetively worse than Hitler, because Hitler did nothing wrong and your friend did.

Assuming HBS would make another SR:R installment: What place/region/event would you like to see?

>>50514734
Amazonia.

>>50514734
The UK.
Maybe Ireland specifically.

>>50514950
You wouldn't want that. Ireland is just kinda awful in Shadowrun. Like, unless Hairbrained ignores most of the fluff on the place, it'll suck.

>>50514734
The Caribbean (is there fluff for this?) or maybe somewhere in the Middle East.

>>50515286
I would fucking kill for a middle east SR:R

>>50514734
Easily Aztlan.

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>>50515100
This. Running in Tir na Nog would suck, and it would be not very Shadowrunny given how much of the place is just spirits and magic and no technology.

>>50515522
How would you do that, though? Feels like everything would be all Aztech all the time, and given how they control everything it would be hard to have you do cool things without immediately being destroyed.

>>50515888
The same way you do Detroit - grunt hired by non-corporate types, being hired by out-of-town types, and being hired by one part of a corporation to run against another part of the same corporation.

Sometimes one lab wants up steal another lab's data for internal, political reasons - or someone really needs revenge, or leverage on their boss, or whatever.

>>50515888
Having to fuck up the Azzies while running away from them seems like plenty interesting desu. It would make for a game more like Returns rather than dragonfall or HK, with less optional jobs around and always being on the run.

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>>50515941
Go back to the Yucatan, rebel scum.

I don't think they'll do a Aztlan game because the obvious metaplot is, "Blood sacrifices, why?" And I don't think CGL is ready to give a firm answer on what is happening in this Horror-less Sixth World.

>>50515927
>The same way you do Detroit - grunt hired by non-corporate types, being hired by out-of-town types, and being hired by one part of a corporation to run against another part of the same corporation.
This. When you're in Detroit, 50% of your runs will be one part of Ares paying you to run against another part of Ares. 25% will be some out-of-town faction paying you to run against Ares. And then the remaining 25% will be the standard non-corporate stuff - deal with gangers, investigate something, whatever.

>>50504266

Magic might be your best bet. Get the metamagic that lets you hide that youre awakened and then mindread people at poker.

>>50504266
>>50516189
Also, play a human and max your Edge.
At least, that's the stat I'd use to represent how good of a hand you get in a card game.

>>50511615
Your GM is a little fucking cunt. Those three characters you made could totally find a place in the world and would make a fun team.

>>50493632
Really, does science fiction need any more trite "Woe is me, the thinly veiled metaphor for racial minorities/gay people" moralizing? Does Shadowrun need to rip off Blade Runner any more than it does already? What is there left for you or me to say on the ethics of artificial intelligence that hasn't already been said many times by people far smarter and more knowledgeable about it than we are? Most of all, does the setting need any more "stuff" crammed into it? To me the point of Shadowrun, thematically speaking, is to look at how magic and fantasy races would play out in a modern/near future world, with most of the rest being ancillary. It just seems pointless to use it to dive deep into more standard science fiction questions when there's better systems for it out there already

Hey, that guy who mentioned they had roll20 macros for generating random shadowrun porn, did they ever share the tables?

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>>50517172
>Really, does science fiction need any more trite "Woe is me, the thinly veiled metaphor for racial minorities/gay people" moralizing?
Probably, yeah. The entire genre is more or less completely founded on the principle of externalizing modern issues in the form of fantastical speculative literature, going all the way back to the 1800s. Without thinly-veiled moralizing and such, it'd wouldn't even be the same genre anymore. The fact that you don't feel that way makes me think you got into it for the laser swords and robots rather than the actual stories that have historically made up the genre.

>Does Shadowrun need to rip off Blade Runner any more than it does already?
Yes. Shadowrun is 100% ripping other things off and 0% originality. The way to improve Shadowrun is to find more good things to rip off, not let it stagnate as people complain that there isn't enough cool new stuff in it.

>What is there left for you or me to say on the ethics of artificial intelligence that hasn't already been said many times by people far smarter and more knowledgeable about it than we are?
That's the sort of retarded, defeatist attitude that makes people not do anything at all, period, ever - see my previous statement on idle stagnation.

>Most of all, does the setting need any more "stuff" crammed into it? To me the point of Shadowrun, thematically speaking, is to look at how magic and fantasy races would play out in a modern/near future world, with most of the rest being ancillary. It just seems pointless to use it to dive deep into more standard science fiction questions when there's better systems for it out there already
You're kinda fucking dumb, chummer. The point of Shadowrun has always been to rip off whatever scifi that the current year's writers find fucking rad (like Robocop for cyberzombie stuff, or Starship Troopers for bug spirits), sprinkle in enough elves and magic to keep people interested, and then have every pretend it makes sense as a setting.

How often do runs end in magical realms? Last run I was a part of was suddenly filled with mind controlled prostitutes and ork women with giant dongs.

>>50517515
You haven't lived until you've felt the caress of a skillwired personafix junkie prostitute omae

and you literally caused the ork dong woman monster yourself you fucking degenerate

>>50517578
no i just wanted to seduce mako, kyle's the fuck who asked for the ork dong woman.

>>50517383
>Probably, yeah. The entire genre is more or less completely founded on the principle of externalizing modern issues in the form of fantastical speculative literature, going all the way back to the 1800s. Without thinly-veiled moralizing and such, it'd wouldn't even be the same genre anymore.
You realize you can explore ethical issues without hamfisted preaching, right? The problem with robots in Shadowrun is that souls explicitly exist. If robots have souls all the issues become totally clearcut and one-sided, and you've pretty much just got FO4. If they don't, there's nothing using Shadowrun is going to add and they'll just be a tacked on feature that isn't well connected to the rest of the setting.
>The fact that you don't feel that way makes me think you got into it for the laser swords and robots rather than the actual stories that have historically made up the genre
Nice strawman. Keep telling yourself that
>That's the sort of retarded, defeatist attitude that makes people not do anything at all, period, ever - see my previous statement on idle stagnation
Another strawman. Wow, you're really good at these! I never said "no one is ever allowed to do anything, ever." My point was that your story isn't going to be very meaningful if you're just endlessly retreading old ground.
>You're kinda fucking dumb, chummer. The point of Shadowrun has always been to rip off whatever scifi that the current year's writers find fucking rad (like Robocop for cyberzombie stuff, or Starship Troopers for bug spirits), sprinkle in enough elves and magic to keep people interested, and then have every pretend it makes sense as a setting.
What part of "thematically speaking" don't you understand? I wouldn't be calling people dumb when you fail at basic reading comprehension. On top of that, Shadowun is a pretty unified setting even if it is derivative (and nothing is truly original anyway). Just because it's science fiction doesn't mean it won't be out of place

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>>50517227
>did they ever share the tables?
no I didn't

http://pastebin.com/zsE1GKLC

make tables and macros from pastebin, change the [[1t[Porn-Character-Description]]] in the macro to [[1t[Porn-Character-Descriptor]]], adjust tables to taste, consider suicide

>Random porn: 2 character super romantic trid porn, location: outdoors (AAA)
>Random porn character: female human wageslave or other civilian
>Random porn character: female pixie BTL addict

could work

>>50517896
Random porn: 6 character delivery person porn, location: train car
Random porn character: male elf BTL addict
Random porn character: male ork security officer
Random porn character: male elf wageslave or other civilian
Random porn character: female elf magician
Random porn character: male human possessed by spirit
Random porn character: female ork wageslave or other civilian

I'm ok with this

>>50517861
>The problem with robots in Shadowrun is that souls explicitly exist.
Your Essence is not your Soul - it's just what keeps you tethered to the Astral. When you die, your Essence doesn't live on - it erodes in exactly the same manner as if you'd hit Essence 0 and died that way. Your mind, your memories, you personality - none of these are part of your Essence, they're part of your brain.

Whether or not souls exist is far from an explicit fact in Shadowrun, it's the subject of constant in-setting debate, with some people claiming that one's Essence is their soul, and others pointing out that it's clearly fucking not, unless you're warping the word 'soul' to the point that its definition is no longer recognizable.

Also, you don't understand what strawmen are, retard, you just use it as a buzzword to dodge having to actually address arguments. Stay shit.

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>>50514734
Australia.

Or maybe Florida.

>>50514734
Orbital elevator babel

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>>50517599

ya ok you little shit

>>50517599
>>50518199

and so we're clear you literally blogged about ork dongs for like three sessions

>Wow see if anyone in this building is an ork looking to fuck while you're in the node
>Ork dildo collection
>LITERALLY FELT UP AN ORK

kys

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>>50517227
>>50517515
>>50517578
>>50517599
>>50517896
>>50518018
>>50518239

shadowrun general

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>>50518273

>>50518056
Fine, there are explicit differences separating living, thinking things from everything else. Happy now? Those things not functioning identically to traditional notions of "soul" don't make the issue any less clear-cut.

And they absolutely were strawmen and I explained why. Flat denials and name calling don't change that

Is there any way to summon a horrible swarm of nipping spirits?

>>50518604
Just fluff a spirit with Engulf as a swarm, yeah.

>>50517896
Thanks. I wanted to learn how to make twitter bots and figured this would be a good starting place.

What are some mishearings that can seriously fuck everything over?
I'll start.
"Credsticks? I thought you said breadsticks!"

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>>50519581
"Ork sandwich? I thought you said pork sandwich!"

>>50519708
>>50519581
"Toll? I thought you said troll!'

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>>50519842
Are you willing to pay the troll toll?

>>50519901
Yyyyeah

>>50517172
>Does Shadowrun need to rip off Blade Runner any more than it does already?
I'd say it needs to rip off Neuromancer more, but if it tried, it would tear the source material out of its literary roots and wave William Gibson aloft like some kind of trophy.

>>50518331
>Fine, there are explicit differences separating living things from everything else
FTFY, mate.

>>50515286
>caribbean
Cyberpirates does it. It's excellent.

Well, it's official. I'm terrible. I made a twitter bot out of those tables.
https://twitter.com/ShadowrunPorn

>>50517383
You run into issues when you cram extra shit into a setting and in doing so dilute the core concepts. This is a problem Shadowrun already has in spades. Adding more shit to a setting doesn't actually make it better, and it's sure as hell not the same thing as progressing the setting.

The best places Shadowrun ever added new sci-fi tropes and content were the old Threats books, because they put things in that could be as minor or major as an individual GM wanted them to be. So you could run a whole campaign that's exploring different sci-fi ideas than "base" Shadowrun tends to deal in, but since none of the content was explicitly canon, it made no assertions about the setting as a whole. That flexibility is lost on the current writing team, though.

Man, fuck the haters. I'd love to see me some android/replicant drama divorced from the usual digital-entity AIs. Maybe a new type of drone hitting the market whose Pilot programs are sufficiently advanced that there's renewed debate as to whether they legally count as sapient - with corps and other authoritarians firmly in the 'yeah, nah, they're not people' camp.

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>>50522120
me too.
I'd love to see all that good robot problems shit, too.

>>50522120
I already think it's a little unreasonable how much AIs have been proliferated, but uncanny-valley androdrones with creepily clingy personasofts would be a cool thing to throw in as a Threats-type plot hook. Depending on your table, they could be totally nothing, or an experimental sales idea that's more complicated than Mitsuhama bargained for, or actually Blade Runner. I dunno if I'd want it as a recurrent metaplot thing, though. It'd probably turn out garbage if they were all that explicit.

>>50522120
Shame the haters are the writers.

High functioning pilot programs are a thing, though.

>Advanced Pilot programs are comparable not to dogs, but to small children or, in some cases, adult metahumans.
>The top-end programs are restricted to military use, but I’ve gotten my hands on a few and, each time, they’ve developed personalities beyond what I ever expected.

>>50522120
How's that functionally different from AIs, though? The only real change you've got is that the AIs are mass-produced and link-locked to their home node.

>>50522227
I'd love more Threats shit in general, really. The best RPG writing tends to consistently be that of making ambiguous, maybe-true maybe-false plot hooks for GMs to include or discard as they please. Ideally contradictory ones, so they're guaranteed to pick something or nothing.

That doesn't change the fact that I'd love to see specifically more Blade Runner in Shadowrun, though.

>>50522248
Who cares about what the functional, mechanical difference is? The important thing is the distinction that they'd have in the setting's fluff. Replicants and other 'not sure if drone' type maybe-sapient androids - even if they could be mechanically represented as link-locked AIs in drones - would occupy a fundamentally different role in the fluff, if not the crunch.

>>50522248
It's the difference between being some kind of crazy floating around spirit and being a dude.

>>50522252
Old Shadowrun used to include a ton more things like that. I don't know if the fans were clamoring for more concrete metaplot, or if it was the shuffling dev teams in the late 90s that made them kinda lose that design principle, but I miss it pretty dearly.

I feel like daytime should just never happen, and it should always be neon night.

So, which way is best to do that?
Overcity blocking light to the undercity?
Dome to protect from the hazards of the outside world?
Pollution has blocked out the sun?
Energy demand is so great that solar stations block out all light?

>>50522248
>>50522271
If high rating pilot programs are able to pass the turing test (comparable to adult metahumans), what are you arguing for, other than the level of proliferation in the setting?

>>50522393
I for one would like to see less nebulous data entities and more concrete robo people.
Most likely grown right into the shell by some shit like this.
https://ti.arc.nasa.gov/m/pub-archive/1244h/1244%20(Hornby).pdf
or this
https://www.damninteresting.com/on-the-origin-of-circuits/

also, more proliferation would be good. I am sad they decided to blow their AI people load on infectious nanobots.

>>50522426
Honestly they blew their load in the Crash 2.0 and then they just kept pumping until their rod was purple.

Why did the banshee infected option get taken out in the latest versions of Chummer?

What's a good way to build contacts? My original DM who taught me shadowrun never fucking explained them, and there's a ton of options so I've got no idea what's viable. Is it better to have a bunch of connection 1 loyalty 1 contacts or a few high connection high loyalty? What's the best bang for buck archetype? Why is Friends in High Places even legal?

>>50523185
>what's the best kind of contact
It depends. If you want them for skills, go for low connection. (street doctors and so on.)
If you want them for cool things (fixers or whatever) grab as high of a connection as possible
As far as friends in high places goes, I got no clue. I assume if you abuse it your calls to your friend end up like this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fVNtHQ1tTQ

>>50523185
Its almost always in a runner's best interest to have somebody that can:

Provide information
Acquire illegal shit
Fix their shit when it breaks
Mr. Johnson

Best bang for your buck is a Smuggler. That is somebody who can provide two or three of the above things depending on how lenient/generous your GM is.

>>50522821
Que? Should be working fine.

I just realized that I truly, truly want a hotline miami style street sam simulator.
It would work quite well. You could pair it with that decker game.

>>50522426
>https://www.damninteresting.com/on-the-origin-of-circuits/
Sounds like pilot programs to me, bro.

>>50522567
>they just kept pumping until their rod dropped off
Now they're effectively punching the stump.