WH40k without the Chaos Gods

>>50455526
i like it. what would you use to do the work as it were? What would make the galaxy such a fucked up place? what justifies the least of all evil grimderp approach of the imperium without the great enemy?

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>No heretics to burn in the name of the emperor

Besides that one awful fact it seems okay. How would the galaxy become grim-dark however? The Imperium is the way it because its the only method of survival against the dark-gods not just because its loldrimderp. No dark gods mean the Imperium is a vastly different place then the actual 40k one, at which point its not even 40k anymore.

>>50455650
Not OP but there would still be heretics - Horus and the other legions would still rebel in his example and therefore the Imperium would still label them as heretics for defying the Emperor. Hell they'd probably still worship Big E as a god. Guy kinda had a fucking halo and a flaming sword.

>>50455577
>>50455650
One factor might be that psykers are still pretty fucking dangerous, although in different ways. They poke into the Warp, after all; maybe if they do it at the wrong time, they can trigger some cataclysmic events. Maybe they could poke open a bottomless thermodynamical conduit that will eventually turn the whole planet into a frozen wasteland, or suck its atmosphere straight into the Warp. Maybe they risk trasforming into mutants that become living conduits of mutation themselves, with a body horror version of the grey goo scenario. Things that make it necessary to keep them under check to the point where a regime of terror would be justified.

Then there would be the civil war. Horus and the other traitor primarchs would have had different motives, of course, since 'Chaos did it' is no longer an option. It could focus more on Horus' hybris; or maybe he believed the Warp would have been the ideal shortcut to achieve an hypotetically idyllic transhumanism, while big E knew it's just a terrible idea (or maybe he's just attached to an ideal of 'humanity' that would be lost in such process).

(Just brainstorming right now)

>>50455810

If I may I propose that the traitor legions would actually have been different given this scenario. I'm not sure who else would go, but im betting on Russ and Sanguinus. Now before you tell me that's shit, here is why. Emps killed the thunder warriors after winning earth because they were flawed and too violent for his vision of utopia. Consider thst the wolves and the angels are both genetically flawed. They go nuts, have detrimental mutations, and are damn violent. Sure they serve a purpose now during the crusades, but once the galaxy is taken who's to say Emps won't give em the thunder warrior treatment? A skilled manipulator could play upon those fears. Perhaps a primarch desirous of power. Wouldn't be horus, he's already in charge. Realistically horus doesn't have to much motivation to rebel without being mind fucked. I don't think lorgar would fall either actually. No gods, no need for Emps to abolish religion. He'd still probably do it, but it wouldn't be as big a deal and he'd probably take his time with lorgar. Even if he did smack him down, no gods for lorgar to turn to. Also, no gods means magnus probably doesn't fall either. Less reason for nikea, and no one convincing him he needs to go visit Emps and tricking him.

>>50455942
These suggestions make a lot of sense. It starts to feel like there's material for an interesting AU.

Magnus would still be very corruptible, though. Considering how dangerous psykers would be, it would make just as much sense for Emps to want to limit and control them. Nikea would still be very likely to happen, after all. And if Magnus had any insight on the webway project, he would have good reasons to believe the Emperor would cull all psykers as soon as they wouldn't be necessary anymore for FTL travel.

FOllowing your suggestion Horus and Sanguinus could switch places entirely. And after the 'death' of the Emperor, the Imperium would have to undertake a long and bloody campaign to reconquer and reunite the worlds fallen to the traitors and renew the purges against psyker. Without the guide of the Emperor, the experience of betrayal and the need of men for what will be a long and strenuous war will make them tighten their grip on the planets they regain control of, which will of course only make the perspective of rebellion all the more appealing. THere would be escalating paranoia and a more and more tyrannical regime.

>>50455526
You mean let the necrons, tyranids, orks and dark eldar actually be the bad guys? I Could dig it. Tyranids could fill in most of the niches chaos currently does

>>50458655
>necrons, tyranids, orks and dark eldar actually be the bad guys? I

What kind of person seriously thinks of the Imperium as 'the good guys'? Are we to just ignore 99% of the things they do?

>>50458771
The Imperium does nothing wrong.

What the FUCK are you implying heretic

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>>50458771
The Imperium is the good guy though. Story is told from the imperial perspective, Ave Imperator.

>>50455526
I actually agree. Though you could keep demons as incomprehensible beings that would sometime pop out and rape your ass if you poke the warp wrong. Just another catastrophe than can happen with psykers.

Actually, just making the 4 chaos gods just big demons among others of their kinds would be enough for me but have your fun anon.

>>50459230
If the chaos gods were nerfed down to unsharded c'tan or pre fall eldar God strength instead of literally unstoppable that would be a massive improvement.

>>50456103

Alright so Magnus, Russ, and Sanguinus fall because they fear a purge of their defective sons once the campaign is done. Who else could join them. Angron makes sense as well, he and his legion are also defective. There any other fucked up legions i'm forgetting?

guys lets actually do this, like hektor heresy/nobledark alternate timelines shit old school /tg/ autism orgy.

>>50459764
Any idea what we'd call it, and how much we'd diverge?

holy shit please not another thing for me to mirror and edit on 1d4

but I'm actually secretly super proud of my sweet precious nobledark child being there as one of *those* 40k AU timelines

>>50459088

Isant 40k a setting?

>>50458771
It's the general human collective. It's by default the "good" faction for that alone. Us vs. them, in blunt terms.

>>50458771
>>50459874
they may be genocidal catholic space nazis, but by god they're OUR genocidal catholic space nazis!

>>50459794

Fear the Mutant: a tale of Heresy. The heretic chapters get consumed by the flaws in their geneseed. Wulfen, Death company, mutated abominations and sorcerers, and really really angry magic roid guys everywhere. Also, more focus on mutants in 40k in this alt. I mean they are there, but other than "there are muties under the hives and they are bad" we don't really see them and they don't really have to much effect. Lets change that. Lets make the Muties an important part of the setting. Especially if we are pulling away from the demonic aspect of the warp, lets look at its ability to warp flesh and change bone and blood. Heretical mutie chapters working with underhiver mutants and scavies to lead uprisings against the "pure" imperial forces

>>50455526
It would be Warhammer: Rouge Trader, the first edition of the game

Read it.

>>50459972

Basically since in this time line only four of the legions went rogue they aren't as numerous, and since they don't have an eye to go hide in, they have to be careful. Their plan was a decapitating strike to kill the emperor in secret. They were only partially successful. They did manage to kill the Emperor, but Sanguinus died (kicking off black rage and exacerbating the problem), and they got caught by the others. So they had to flee. Now they hide on the edges of space and secretly infiltrate the Imperium to lead uprisings, disrupt supply lines, and assassinate key figures. They can't stand up to them in a straight fight but the Imperium is such an inefficient lumbering behemoth of bureaucracy they avoid their attempts to squash them and slowly wear away at them.

>>50455526
>Hello /tg/. I found myself wondering how would be the setting of Wh40k without the Ruinous Powers of Chaos,
My gut reaction was xenos-free, but without the threat of the chaos gods, the shamans never would have formed the Emperor.

The setting would be unrecognizable.

>>50460028

Holy crap he is right. We didn't consider that. darn, and i was having fun with imagining my renegade mutie chapters.

>>50459794
I think lets try to force a lot of analogues to not abandon what we love, but I would say lets diverge a lot (sorry I can't quantify it). I would think like nobledark we have a lot of similarities and yet crazy differences, ala Empy being alive or dying some other way or some other time. Perhaps best way is lets re-do the heresy and then let everything else evolve organically from its implications?

Necron, tyrannid and orks could all be emphasized more as earlier threats to humanity (maybe even necrons having a hand in the heresy). That being said, i think even c'tan have to be nerfed a touch or re-imagined without chaos as a philosophical opponent.

No clue for name. Nodaemon 40k.

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>>50455526
> I love starcraft

>>50459794
>>50459972
>>50460061
Lawful Grimdark?

hahaha i made an alignment joke i'm funny now guys someone please love me

>>50460028
Iron men are still alive, shamans fear that some will link with necron, thus they form the emperor?

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>>50460107

>>50460118
Nah, Men of Iron are DaoT creations; Emps is back in 8000BCish.

How about, just so even the setting itself starts off with "you don't need Chaos to have a Bad Time", the shamans originally fucked around with the warp bc they just wanted power and immortality and all that - except that those who couldn't keep control of it got far greater powers but went mad (but weren't necessarily posessed by something else, fine distinction). Eventually, whole ritual suicide thing was done so that all the wisdom'd be compiled and reborn into a Responsible Adult who could keep a handle on psyker alchemists and off them if necessary

>>50458655
what with the genestealer cults, you're pretty right.

>>50460061
>Necron, tyrannid and orks could all be emphasized more as earlier threats

No. They should still be serious, and present threats. Retroactive defeats and nerfs are ridiculous.

>i think even c'tan have to be nerfed a touch

As powerful as the Emperor.

So, in this scenario, what of the Eldar? Maybe the Eye of Terror still exists. Except...that's just where the Eldar live. They're not dying of Slaanesh...they've basically just got the Warp equivalent of Necrontyr's Disease. That's what they've had from Day 1. Thus, Ynnead would be Their One Hope. A God that rules in the Warp and protects them from the hellishness. Which is also why the mutant/psyker legions turned. They turned to Ynnead, or at least the idea of Ynnead. Because the Emperor cannot provide that. He's too weak. The 'Eldar Empire' still exists. It's just not a place non-psykers and mutants can spend more than 5 seconds in without exploding into...something.

>>50460028

No Choas= No Emps= shamans still alive

therefore humanity was ruled and guided through the ages by a oligarchy of super powerful immortal reincarnating beings, who guided their less developed kin as their shepherds. While they form a council, a unitary body, each acts as the administrator for an area/population of humanity. Each develop their own unique servants to help them manage their portion of humanity. Disagreements are rare, they've all been around and known each other for hundreds of thousands of years. Generally speaking humanity is united. What are the logical repercutions and consequences of this /tg/. How would this different model of humanity have shaped the galaxy. OH SNAP no chaos means no slaanesh, means no fall of the Eldar. Eldar could potentially still be the galactic superpower when humanity begins to reach for the stars.

>>50460381
Eye of terror is still a Warp dingleberry, but it was just because of Eldar experimentation with it? Again, hubrishubrishubris

>>50460381
Also...maybe the C'tan were sharded in their war against the Eldar gods. Necrons are trying to keep the Eldar OUT of Reality. Killing them off is the ideal, but creating anti-warp shit is the main goal. Bringing back the C'tan is part of this. Mortarian &/or Perturabo fell to the C'tan as well. They were made blanks, maybe? As the last proof of loyalty and devotion.

>>50460404
No. Just because of Eldar existing there. Remember: they're, to a man, psykers. Imagine they all lived in the same general place for a million years. They likely adapted to ONLY being able to live there after a time. Which made the problems worse. And worse. And worse. x60, 000, 000. It gradually expands, and takes reality with it.

>>50460432

So what your saying is Eldar became the inhabitants of the warp. Eldar=not!demons in that demons are the denizens of the warp and cannot exist long on the material plane without some manner of anchor or aid. Basically Eldar would be warp beings, but they are only arrogant cunts who look down on you, rather than genocidal disease spreading rapist cunts who trick you into helping them.

>>50460466
>So what your saying is Eldar became the inhabitants of the warp.

They were born psykers and are the logical conclusion of what happens when EVERYBODY in a civilization is a psyker in this AU. It goes badly. Reality rips apart and everyone gets mutated. They got made into Warp denizens, kinda, just by existing near each other for too long. They're also not just arrogant, an Eldar warband would wreack havoc on the local populace just by being near. They'd cause crazy mutations and head explosions and whatnot. They just couldn't leave the area of the EoT, though. If you enter the Warp, you're theirs. IF not, you're safe. 100%, safe. The closer you get to the EoT, though...

Also, the EoT is slowly expanding. They also can't really be killed because they just reincarnate in the Warp. No Webway. They can't even use it, really. They can only live in the EoT & Warp. They can't leave it due to hyper-adaptation. With Ynnead, the Warp, EoT & realspace would be one, though.

>>50455577
All the other arcane and crazy xenos shit out there or Dark Age of Tech horrors taking up the slack.

Empire would have never been able to get off the ground as while decadent the eldar empire would still be very much alive and have tech that could crush anyone who dared stand in opposition to their rule of the galaxy

>>50460554
But what >>50460541 is saying is that they ascended? I think? To the point that they're just beings of sheer warpstuff; effectively daemons but made from keikaku instead of edge.

>>50460432
>Perturabo becoming a blank to forget his home planet.

The feels...

>>50460541
I feel like they're a bit similar to daemons though.

>>50460554
If we go by my Eldar idea, they'd be very well confined to the EoT & Warp. So while they have god-tech, they'd have no reason or ability to use it against people outside their territory.

>>50460594
It's not really an ascent. Also, it wasn't planned. It just happened over millions of years of living together and ALL being psykers.

>>50460622
Imagine if human history was 100% the same, except we all naturally mutated each other and ripped reality apart just by existing together in cities and shit. Then imagine that happening over millions of years, on planetary scales. It was like climate change but even slower and didn't quite affect them so badly immediately.

You guys are bad at this.
Without Chaos, the original human Empire wouldn't have ceased to exist, due to the warp Storm caused by Slaanesh never cutting off humanity from one another.
The Eldar would be just fat slobs as they were never punished for their excessive ways.
The Tyranids would never have come, as they would never have been attracted by the golden throne.
The Tau would probs still be savages depending on what the ethereals are.
We are pretty much looking at Orks Verse Humans in my opinion.

>>50460906

Thank you for that very helpful and constructive post. I'm glad to see your doing your part to make the board a better place.

I would direct your attention first to
>>50460388
>>50460028

Where the idea that the original human government would still be there is brought up, though there has not been time to discuss it in length. Mayhaps you have something to add?

Your concept for the Eldar is certainly a possibility, but seeing as this whole idea is based on the warp behaving differently there is nothing to say that

>>50460541
>>50460466
>>50460381

could not be, and it seems more interesting that fat hedonistic fucks. Which is not to say there would not be hedonistic fucks among them. There would be.

Your point about the Nids is entirely valid.

Since Tau are not dependant on the warp, irregardless of whatever is going on there i think they would probably be in more or less the same boat, unless everything was tzeench, in which case you are probably correct and they are a non factor.

Necrons would still be Relevant.

Man V Ork was pretty much the Crusades, and its how it all started. I have no objections to this. I like the Boyz. It'd be nice if they were more relevant.

>>50461050
>Man V Ork was pretty much the Crusades
m-muh mudslimes

>>50460906
>Without Chaos, the original human Empire wouldn't have ceased to exist, due to the warp Storm caused by Slaanesh never cutting off humanity from one another.
Original human empire grows larger and larger while the Eldar are in the final stages of transitioning into something else. Humans go through a singularity, build AIs that proceed to go through x amounts of singularities themselves but stay more or less loyal to humanity. At this point, no human can fully or even partially understand the tech that surrounds them. Shit might as well be magic to them. Cue AIs messing too much with the warp all the while the Eldar are doing the same(some to undo what's being done to them and others to expand the warp's presence on this side). Everything goes fubar at the same time. AIs all go nuts, the warp goes nuts, Eldar space goes super nuts.

>The Tyranids would never have come, as they would never have been attracted by the golden throne.
Simple, we're on their migratory path.

>>50461085

sorry typo meant so say Crusade, as in the Emperor's Great Crusade. They fought a lot of orks, at least going off the novels i read. I won't pretend to have read all of them, but the ones i did orks came up a lot.

>>50461203
Humans already had an AI revolt, that's why the Emperor banned them.

>>50459289
I feel like Fulgrim could fit in as well. Being so obsessed with becoming the perfect legion he goes a bit bonkers, realises that his legion will never be perfect in the eyes of Emps, becomes fearful that his legion would be purged for not being perfect. Might be a bit of a stretch though.

>>50461323

Eh i could see it. He was always pretty neurotic, i guess in this case he just goes crazy with his lust for perfection again that's all. Though i think at this point the mutie thing is seperate from the no chaos gods thing, seeing as its pretty well agreed there would be no emps, and therefor no primarchs.

I like the idea that all Eldar would be dark eldar because there was no Slanesh to destroy them.

>>50461203
Oh sorry I didn't realise we were just going to twist all the facts to the point of complete fiction.
Carry On.

>>50461443
Worse, they'd be psychic, eternally respawning Dark Eldar.

>>50460255
sorry, to clarify, I meant they were encountered earlier in the history of mankind, and thus the totalitarian society was created to respond to such a threat.

Ok guys, i think this obsession with the shamans needing chaos explicitly to form the emperor is bordering on the autistic.

Can't we contrive of an alternate reason as to why theu make the god emperor? Something they forsee or encounter (i like the c'tan suggestion)?

>>50461692
this is a made up re-imagining of made up future history, its ok if he remakes parts of it.

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>>50455526
Without the Chaos GODS or without CHAOS? Because there's a different answer both ways.

If it's without CHAOS as a whole, then the Necrotyr conquer everything and... well... win well before humanity gets written technology.

If it's without the Chaos GODS, then the Enslaver plague is probably a much bigger deal, because the birth of Slaanesh doesn't stop it, and the warp-threat has a much more mind-controller-ey, orderly, OBEY feel too it. Granted, I think in the timeline, this is still after The Emperor was created, so he probably protects Earth, and still tries to create a human society, but it's one built to withstand the onslaught of constant Enslaver threat instead of constant Chaos-God threat.

>>50461692
You know there are no facts, right? The whole thing is fiction. Has been the whole time.

>>50461968
There's just a few loud autists trying to approach this like they're being graded for accuracy in predicting actual changes, and not adapting a setting.

>>50462101
Read OP, make your own thread you shitlord

>>50461968
War in Heaven can still make the warp a chaotic nightmare realm of various horrors, only they don't coalesce into four massive villain sues.

>>50462190
>villain sues.

Eat a dick.

>>50462203
They're immortal, unstoppable supreme entities that are certain to win in the end.
The fuck else would they be?

>>50462217
Yahweh.

>>50462229
>implying YHWH is not also a villain sue

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OP here, and holy Emperor, when I went to sleep this thread was at six replies and I was almost sure it was going into oblivion! So thank you all for participating and for all the input.

Here are a few ideas:

>Why would the Shamans create the Emperor?
I was thinking perhaps the Shamans have gained insight of the enormity and unpredictability of the galaxy around them. They have visions of the War in Heaven, they know of the risk posed by Eldar, maybe they even perceive the infinitely distant echoes of the Tyranid Hive Mind from universes away. Not to mention the perils that space poses to a civilization restrained to only one planet - one wrong asteroid or one supernova too close, and here goes human civilization. So they decided to unite in something that would be greater than just the sum of their might, someone powerful enough to shield Humanity in its infancy and guide it to the stars when it would become adult.
One anon suggested that some Shamans themselves might have succumbed to Warp madness, which is a good idea as well - the Shamans realize their own fragility and that only united (literally) they can endure, not to mention overcome the risk of individualism or infighting, and make humanity endure as well.

>What happened to the Eldar without Slaanesh?
Being a civilization plagued by 'Warp sickness' as you have suggested sounds pretty great. Perhaps now the Wraithbone and soulstones serve to keep them 'stable', preventing them from mutating in horrible ways?
In addition, let's just consider decadence to the point of a galaxy-wide cultural ennui. Combined with warp sickness, they might just have all but lost their ability to procreate, and attempts to artificially create 'children' are met with horrible mutant spawn. They slowly fade into literal oblivion. I can imagine a whole craftworld sinking so deep into existential depression that, given their psychic powers and consequent instability, they eventually just vanish in the Warp.

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>>50462685
(cont'd)
The idea that the Eldar spawn the Eye of Terror works wonderfully as well. Maybe their whole affinity with the Warp comes from both a natural disposition and from constant dabbling in it. Which would mean...
>The Emperor knows exactly what could happen if humanity began to rely on warp technology and 'space magic' too much, since he basically witnessed the Fall of the Eldar
>One of the traitor Primarch's motives might be that they believe they can do better than the Eldar and use the Warp to go beyond singulariy and to transhumanism. Hybris, again.

>What happened to the Necrontyr?
Considering the scope of the War in Heaven, I'd say it forced them to go into slumber even without the threat of Chaos. Eventually they realize that the war has devastated the galaxy to a point where substaining it any longer would consume much more than they can possibly harvest. So they have to wait until it's ripe again.

>About the traitor legions
The idea that defective chapters betray out of 'fear' of what could become of them is great, but it doesn't have to be the only reason for betrayal. Other Primarchs may simply lust for power and/or believe that the Emperor's views on the Warp are just too restrictive, while they want to use it to bring humanity to immense power. Some might just feel emphaty for their 'defective' brothers, or growing disdain for Emp's cryptic ways and lack of trust, or just for his vision for humanity or how tyrannical his Empire is becoming.

An idea: what if the shamans of old did create the Emperor for the sake of keeping human psykers in line, as another anon suggested, but once Big E is dead psykers go back to making mankind fall into a civil war for the benefit of power hungry psychic assholes. I'd think such a setting would be much less religious to begin with so why not redo the whole reason for why the Imperium us falling into decadence following the Heresy.

Also, the daemons should be a lot different, if there are no gods to channel them. There's potential for brainstorming.

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>>50455526
Imperium becomes slightly less sympathetic.

Still, their main opponents would be extra-smug (No slaaneesh) Eldar, Orks (Who are Orks) and Nids (All devouring)

>>50462953
>Imperium becomes slightly less sympathetic.
Not entirely a bad thing.
Most importantly, the whole conflict would move from "Necessary Evil Supernazi Regime /VS/ Bonkers Space Satanists from Rapehell" to an actual galactic civil war between horribly flawed and horribly human sides.

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>at least the authors would have to actually think of stories with motivations a bit more interesting that Chaos Ex Machina

You see, that occaisionally does happen in 40k, but the plot and setting is far more overtaken by space marine-wankfests and I don't think this setting alteration does anything to change the issue. Even /tg/ homebrew AU's (Hektor Heresy, Nobledark etc.) are so obsessively focused on them it all kinda seems like a bunch of cosmetic alterations to the lore.

I'd rather get more 40k fiction about stuff outside of the space marines (minor xenos like the Dolrathi or Enslavers, or the dozens of minor human empires/pirate fleets scattered throughout the galaxy). Feels like a lot of untapped potential elsewhere that often fails to see any use.

>>50463005
I feel you on this, Anon. Also more focus on IG and PDF as well, considering the Space Marines are just one drop in the endless sea of bodies thrown in the fray.

Not canon.

>>50458771
They're tragic heroes, they had high hopes and ambitions but the galaxy they live in is fucking hell. A whole other mirror dimension that wants to fuck you over eternally forever and ever. Vastly technologically and physically superior psychic space elves that think youre dirt. Trillions of war loving space gorillas that will gladly organise system wide invasions just to cave in some skulls. Among many many other things, humans have to make horrific and dark choices to simply keep the species alive. They aren't good people but in the setting they are the closest to "good guys" (except probably tau)

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>>50455526
>Chaos Ex Machina

>>50462798
We still take the idea of the primarchs being dispersed after their creation, arent we? Not by the will of the chaos gods, just because warp bollocks. I'd take then the idea of Alpharius crashing in some alien planet (or not) learning their ways (or not). Any way, his motivation to betray the Emperor would be that he thinks his vision of humanity is wrong, and the hate to the alien in the imperium. He would be basically a tolerant guy pissed off by the racism and fascism of the imperium. Or not.

>>50462050
>because the birth of Slaanesh doesn't stop it
Pretty sure the birth of slaanesh happened 10k years ago, while the enslaver plague happened 65 million years ago

>>50463241
Yeah, the Primarchs scattering can be preserved. Maybe they all have an inherent psychic might (even those who aren't properly psykers) so great that being all present in one place causes some critical mass effect and, basically, they briefly disappear in the Warp to reappear somewhere else in the cosmos. When they mature they gain enough subconscious control of their power through their enormous force of will and personality that there's no danger of something similar happening again even if they get too close.

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>>50462953
I like how it does not matter how much you alter the rules of 40k universe, orks always remain the same. Truly stubborn race dat is.

>>50459230
so demon would be more like warp fauna, like warp spider, void whales and psyneuchein. Rather than christian demon, they would be then sentient warp alien.
I like it. With all the chaos wankery that's going on lately it needs a good ol'nerf

>>50459289
Well Angron is an obvious choice. Even without Khorne he hated the Emperor's shit and would jump ship the first chance he got to murder him. The Iron Warriors are also still in the cards - they got all the shit jobs for decades and they're fucking tired of it.

>>50455526
I don't get it...without Chaos Gods, so without Slaanesh, don't you just get a depraved Eldar Empire ruling the galaxy till the nids come?

Without Slaanesh to start the Fall the Eldar will remain the galactic hegemon till the nids come. The only other people who can challenge them, Necrontyr, are unlikely to survive when the Eldar as an Empire can exterminate them if the first tombs start awakening piecemeal.

(More realistically the Silent King will probably be smart enough not to start awakening them as early since the Eldar are in a better position to attack them if they awaken piecemeal).

Additionally didn't the Emperor need the Chaos Gods on Molech in order to gain the power to make Primarchs and the like?

>>50455526

So, keep the Warp as a reflections of the minds of all sapient species, except remove the gods and all sources of focused, intelligent intent?

Maybe make it fundamentally more difficult for psykers to manipulate, with inexperienced psykers often losing control,causing violent and hideous deformations in reality as the warp spills into the Materium through them?

...

>>50455650

Accelerate/exaggerate Tyranid threat...

More Tyranid hive fleets show up sooner?

Radically stronger, tougher, larger Tyranid bioforms start showing up?

Turns out the Tyranids are running from something, it emerges from the void?

...

Reinvent the Necrons into a more active threat?

Rein back the space Egyptian motif so it isn't so on the nose?

Throw out the C'tan or replace the source of their strangeness and ambiguity by dropping the deification/mysticism aspect of the C'tan and playing up the incomprehensibly complex ancient alien AI angle? (Even with Chaos gone, too many fucking 'gods')

Get some competent writers to give them some more purpose and direction, something interesting but appropriately somber?

>>50455526
What happens is
Dark Eldar become the Imperium
Necrons become Chaos
Imperium become Tau
Tau become Squats

>>50455526
This would be an interesting 40k lore rewrite á la Imperium Asunder/Hektor Heresy. Though with less selfinsertfagging and mary sues. Keep all the existing characters, just rewrite them into the new setting and give them new motivations.

Speaking of which, what would happen to the Traitor Legions? Would Kharn still be a plantary-scale homicidal maniac? What would be the reason for that if there is no Khorne?

>>50459975
Phew, someone else knows.

>>50459289
>>50460381

I was thinking, what if the Emperor was BTFO on Ullanor? The Crusade still went on, but that Ork, wasn't just an Ork or even a crazy powerful Ork but like...you know. What The Beast or Ghaz is supposed to be fluffwise. He was The Ork. And when the Emperor fought him, he was really that fucking tough. He didn't quite lose, but he really did need Sanguinius' help. This lays the seed for Sanguinius & Lorgar to not quite believe so strongly in E's overwhelming might/godhood.

Then Lorgar makes a pilgrimage, of some sort, because he hears of 'a god.' E insists there are no Gods, but Lorgar MUST KNOW. He needs to know that there is nothing greater. So he travels and, somehow, convinces the Eldar to show him, well, their God. Something like that. Then after seeing the vastness of the embryonic Ynnead in the Warp, he starts preaching about it on Human worlds. Then you get the Ultramarine/Word Bearers fight and so on.

Then Big E, maybe, decides to play God.

>>50464128
I do like the idea of Lorgar's pilgrimage

>>50463834
Kharn was actually a pretty intelligent and coherent guy pre-heresy. If he didn't fall to Khorne I imagine he'd likely take over Angron's place if the Siege of Terra still plays out. Hell, maybe he'd rally the other legions together after and lead them the way Abaddon does now, only with less spikes.

What about all those functioning advanced STCs? Super advanced human coloneys spanning millions of worlds all with the arsenel of the space marines.

>>50467982
Scattered, damaged or destroyed by the AI uprising or the following inability to maintain them

>>50455748
>Not OP but there would still be heretics
lolno. Without the warp they'd have been skullfucked out of existance by the loyalists. Even with the power of 4 daemonic gods they got crammed back into the asshole of the galaxy.

>>50463331

Well I mean none of what we are talking about really effects them too much. Chaos or no chaos the war in heaven happened, the krork got made, and the orks will go right on being orky. It's not that they are resistant so much as that they are irrelevant to what we are discussing.

>>50463751

...that actually makes sense.

>>50468730
If by "heretic" we mean "Traitor legions", I'd say they'd be definitely still present. We have Sanguinius instead of Horus to mortally wound big E (pumped by Warp power); we can still assume that about one half of the Space Marine legions follow the betrayal and manage to bring non-SM armies with them, so the fight is 'even'; still, the Traitors are repelled, but for the following ten thousand years it is still civil war. Traitors have less qualms about using the Warp and endangering planets this way, and as the Imperium becomes more and more oppressive, it will become easier for entire star systems to go rogue and join the Traitors.

>>50455526
If chaos is no longer what it is, what do we do with the Grey Knights and the Ordo Malleus, other than just get rid of them?

>>50463241
I find it pretty bland, anon. I'm thinking about something involving Omegon too. What if the one who got lost was Omegon, and the warp mutated him? Alpharius would have been the face of his legion as normal, but because Omegon would be an horror show. Maybe to Magnus level or more. When the Heresy start, Alpharius join the traitors with his brother. Or don't. Alpharius, being the normal twin, remaining loyal to the emperor, and Omegon joining the rebellion.

>>50469217
Rogue psykers would be just as dangerous, if not even more than before, so Witch Hunters are still definitely necessary. Grey Knights may return to their roots of Demon Hunters, only instead of Demons they would be hunting any warp creatures that appear in real space, and maybe mutants as well. Basically any speck of Warp made flesh.

I like this. Warp creatures can be more Evangelion Angels than spooky Christian demons.

>>50469348


So your saying we literally split the legion down the middle with mutie Omegon rebelling and Alpharius staying "loyal".

>>50455526
can daemons still exist as wild entities within the warp?

>>50469554
so shit like the enslavers and other malicious warp entities?

That would also mean no Craftworlds eldar, right? No Slaanesh > No round to restrain himself.

Got to say the idea of the shamans never fusing seems a whole hell lot more interesting to me than Big E still being around, but there is the question of how the heresy happens in the first place. Maybe attach a primarch to each shaman?

>>50471675
Their hedony still btfos them when the buildup of psychic energy is released. It's like a fat man burying his face into eighteen buckets of KFC then having a heart attack that makes him explode.

>>50471880

Maybe the shamans create the Primarchs to act as their representatives. Initially the Primarchs are working with different shamans who teach and lead them, mold them as their representatives, but then all the shamans decide to bugger off back to earth to do shaman things and leave the Primarchs to deal with everything for them. Some Primarchs were ready for this responsibility, some felt betrayed that they got left to deal with shit. Some Primarchs trust the council of shamans, and some think they are abominations who have lorded over humanity too long and need to be removed so that mankind can progress without their stagnating influence.

>>50471109
That's the idea, yes.

>>50471095
I'd suggest so, but in the spirit of the OP I think they'd work better with more of a xeno/eldritch horror feeling rather than just 'fantasy'/biblical demons.

>>50470551
This sounds awesome

>>50472140
I don't see why they cant be that and not have a physical/behavioral resemblance to such demons, just don't make them memetic corruptors that geta finger in every pie, without a monolithic set of gods to be components of they are much less centralized, thus not hogging the spotlight but feeling much more persistent as a threat

>>50472270

To combine this will

>>50460381
and

> I can imagine a whole craftworld sinking so deep into existential depression that, given their psychic powers and consequent instability, they eventually just vanish in the Warp.

Maybe instead of just vanishing, the collective psychic gestalt turns into a collection of warp beings. For example, these Daemons wouldn't necessarily be violent. They'd just naturally travel through the warp until they find the reflection of a planet. A planet upon which people live. Then they just linger around. Over the course of a year, the suicide rates climbs literally exponentially. Which only causes a further, more serious, positive feedback loop for the daemons.

This is where the Grey Knights (who are not psykers, and who could be traitors as well but went to the Necrons) come in. They actively monitor the Warp for such things and work in realspace to prevent too much damage from occurring.

>>50455526
Without Chaos, the setting actually becomes semi pleasant dark setting instead of full-retard grimdark.

>>50455526
No Chaos means that the Word Bearers never went traitor and start the Horus Heresy.

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>>50463834
>40k lore rewrite
>less selfinsertfagging and mary sues
>Keep all the existing characters, just rewrite them into the new setting and give them new motivations.

>>50425952
not even a shill, I just found it from other people suggesting it in-thread but it looks to be pic related

>>50468639
Another AI rising or are we pretending the first one was a lot more successful

>>50455526
We'll definitely need to close some gaps like the Eldar being the way they are without Slaanesh eating them. Maybe the DEldar are a far bigger threat.

>>50478454
maybe have a unified eldar, like your average fey court in various fantasy IP. Capricious, decadent and ethereal. They still have tons of wraithbone constructs, but maybe some of them use enslaved consciousnesses from other species or something like that. DEldar propensities to do weird experiments on flesh and bone persist as well.

>>50478622
Given how there were Exodites before Slaanesh came along & how the Craftworlders thought their kin were insane, I'm thinking the DEldar would most definitely be prominent.

OP here. I definitely have to re-read all the thread and group all the suggestions for each faction and each event. I don't have the time to do that right now, but I'll come back later... I hope the thread won't sink by then! Thanks again to everyone for all your input!

>>50470993
Yeah, basically. There are hints in the actual lore of a hidden civil war within the AL in the Heresy. We can explore that way.

If you don't know the lore, please stop posting. This thread is one of the most cancerous things to appear on tg.

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>>50480334
It's really not.

>>50460028
Fuck me, good point anon

I think it should be possible by making some assumptions.

>The War in Heaven still happened, and played out mostly the same way it did. Instead of the war corrupting the Warp, it just essentially turned it into perma-tempest mode, which is why even to the 41st millenium it's still really hard and dangerous to travel through.

>There are still "daemons" in the warp, but they're not daemons but mostly just abstract half-sentient otherworldly creatures who appear into the material realm every now and then.

>The ancient shamans still created the Emperor, but not as a response to Chaos. They foresaw all the nasty shit that inhabits the universe and decided Earth was in need of a protector to safeguard the nacent human race.

>The Eldar empire still fell, though not because of the birth of Slaanesh, but because you can't run an empire while everyone is having BDSM-sex. Most Eldar planets simply couldn't sustain themselves eventually, and so died out. The remaining Eldar gathered upon the Craftworlds in order to escape their kin and survived.

>The Horus Heresy still happens, but not because of MURDER SWORDS but because Horus & Co thought he would be a better ruler. Shit hits the fan and the surviving renegades flee to the fringes of the galaxy. Maybe the Eye of Terror is still a thing, so they use it as their headquarters, but without all the Chaos shit. It's just a really bad place to be for everyone.

>>50471675

>That would also mean no Craftworlds eldar, right?

Well no, in the original lore the craftworld eldar flee from the hedonism or are traders. so you would have still some kind of craftworld vs "dark" eldar

>>50480899

Maybe read the thread before you respond to the 6th post in a thread with 130 posts, this just causes clutter, already heavily discussed.

>>50480334
I actually half agree with you, you can't change the lore if you have no fucking idea what you're talking about to begin with. But seeing you call this whole thread cancer just means you came here to bait. so fuck you and go put your dick in a blender retard

>>50482822
I am not baiting m80, I am disappointed by the tards just yelling shit in here that makes no sense

>>50483879
Like?

If you're talking about the Shamans, that still makes sense. It's just old and retconned lore.

>>50483879
you haven't once articulated what doesn't make sense or what does, you are just complaining in a very non-specific way that some people are bad at lore. If you are one of the autists demanding that the emperor must not happen because the shamans HAVE to make him bc of chaos and nothing else, than you don't really understand worldbuilding.

I think if you are actually trying to help in a good faith way here is what the goal seems to be: lets make a 40k setting with a lot of similarities to the source material w.r.t. the human, eldar, tyrannid and ork factions while diverging because of the lack of chaos. This doesn't mean that we don't want to keep a lot of aspects of the setting that require chaos in the source material, rather that we want to find a way to keep it or reverse engineer it in a modified fashion while finding some other deus ex machina as to why it happens. example: have some evil eldar or some catastrophe happen to the eldar in general despite slaanesh not being the specific crucible of their decadence.

Reep!

>>50455526
>I would prefer if we remove the entire moral/ethical boogeyman and cautionary tale from the warhammer universe

Warhammer is chaos. Without the chaos gods warhammer is just a lame lotr wantabe

>>50493222
>Removing the only aspect of absolute, cartoon-villainey evil from the setting makes it just a wannabe "Archetipical Good Vs Evil Fantasy" wannabe
You're not even trying

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>>50455526
>how would be the setting of Wh40k without the Ruinous Powers of Chaos

Like pic related.

We know that as much as our thoughts and emotions seep into the warp to feed the gods and influence them, so do they echo back and influence us. When Khorne became sentient, wars broke out. When Nurgle, plagues swept the world.

Seeing that everyone in 40k is an asshole, could it be due to the dark influence of Chaos seeping back to cause people to be assholes?

Op said no chaos gods, not no demons. Heresy business continues as usual, just the warp has a lot more variety

>>50494908
>not no demons

Daemons are created by the gods by dividing portion of their power to make them. No goes, no daemons.

>>50494828
>Like pic related.

More like Hegemony of Eldar. Who have all their gods, god-tech, and are all psykers. Don't forget: upon her birth, Slaanesh was hyper-powered which let her kill the gods.

>>50455526
This seems less an actual thread about the 'Chaos Gods' not existing, which should obviously just lead to the Eldar Empire continuing on longer as galactic hegemon, and instead a thread about 'what if everything goes the same pretty much till the Imperium is in charge and then we change stuff'.

>>50487360
I have 6 posts in here other than my criticisms.
So how about you fuck off and do some research on the fluff first lil' cuck