Do they need a lore nerf?

>>50454499
I think everyone needs a lore nerf. Almost everyone, at least.

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Will cleanse the galactic void of Tyranids for inertialess FTL cheese drives

>>50454499
No. They're adversarial, so they need to be portrayed as an unremitting, inexorable force.

>>50454499
No. If anything, in the face of Chaos and Necrons getting pushed even more, they need a more buff to maintain there "eventual doom of everything, everyone needs to ally against them to stop them" status they had.

>>50454499
Most of all they could use a crunch buff

I would prefer necrons or tyranids kill eveything than Chaos winning

>>50454726
Tyranids are always just OK.

>>50454704
>Writers are wanking their favorite factions, so my favorite faction has to be wanked more to compensate
This is exactly what's killing 40k's lore

>>50454639

This. The lore of any and every faction in 40k should imply they will one day be victorious.

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>>50454944
Seconding this. It's ridiculous in a wargame to have factions clearly more powerful than others in this manner. Kinda discourages people from armies.

>>50454909
Pre-Chaos Wank, the Tyranids were the eventual winner. When the main fleet arrived, they would win, but if anyone else got their victory condition first, they would be stopped. This is 100% better than Chaos's stupid "You can't stop us for some reason, we're just better cause we said so."

>>50455039
i wholefully agree
at least with tyranid victory, there is still some hope for the other factions, while for chaos it's just ''muh infinit multiverse chaos autowin''
(that and the fact that necron are the hard counter to tyranids)

>>50454944
They pretty much all do. Only the Tau lack a win-condition - as it should be.

>>50455339
that isn't true, it's obviously spreading the greater good over the galaxy, you silly !
the dark eldar on the other hand don't have any win condition, just a not-dying condition

>>50455433
Well when you think about it their win condition is just continuing on as currently is- just feeding off the continual carnage.

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>>50454499
There's already enough whining about how they lose all the time (in their own codex!!!!!), for almost 7 years and counting.

>>50455039
>Pre-Chaos Wank
So, 1987?

>>50454944
Except Eldar. Their lore says "Hey guys, it's a countdown until we're all proper fucked! To Death!"

>>50454835
Same. Actually, I'd prefer Tyranids nomming down everything. The elves flee into the webway as best they can after Ynnead sucker punches Slannesh. The 13th crusade breaks on Terra but, Imperial forces are entirely spent and in their weaken state cannot fend of the massive hive fleets heading to Terra. During the time the Void Dragon awakes on Mars and the Necrons show up to wreck the admech or perhaps the ad mech submit to the Crons.

>>50455521
They have Ynnead. Unless Eldrad did fuck him irrevocably.

>>50454499
Not really. They are rather deficient in the planning department.

And the Narvhals can be screwed with pretty nicely.

40k factions all give off the edge of 'unstoppability'. Even the Eldar have their 'Ynnead is coming, beware' thing.

>>50455461
Their win condition would be freeing themselves from Slannesh draining their souls and surviving the opening of Khaine's Gate. Really just surviving the Gate opening. Also, I forget the quote but, Vect never loses.

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>>50454499
IMO Nids are the last faction that needs a lore nerf. Right now they seem to be like
>Oh noez, Nids arrived!
>They are scary man
>No, really - buh huh, scary!
At first glance for me, as a newbie, they seemed to be a great threat, a fuckin biological steamroller. After I finished their codex I was like "huh, that's all?"

>>50455555
>Five 5's
That's the sign the Eldar were waiting.

>>50455593
Oh yeah, totally forgot about that bit. Somehow manage to always convince myself they got a deal worked out with Slaanesh, rather than just some eternal loan shark peeking through the window with a baseball bat/dildo.

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>>50455551
That, and I feel like there's a lot more pathos to the Tyranids winning.

40k is a setting of empires destroying themselves and of tragedy. Chaos winning isn't fucking tragic, it's the bad guys winning. Having the entire galaxy wiped clean by an uncaring super predator and then moving on seems like a more fitting end and more deserved for such a fucked up place as the 40k version of the Milky Way.

>>50455671
Any faction winning is antithetical to the theme of stagnation in 40k. There is only war, never victory.

That said, if they had to end the series, the faction with the most players would probably win. I.E. The Emperor's Back.

>>50455657
Yeah, the arrangement doesn't seem to slow them down much. Khaine's Gate is the primary problem. Though, it seems Cegroach has taken both sides in the fight near the Gate as Harlequins back both Vect and Malys. What that means is anyone's guess.

>>50455671
Seeing the galaxy devoured by Nids would be great. Can anyone link hive fleet paint schemes...it doesn't seem there are many official choices...

>>50455708
Boooo! Your not wrong though and with Primarchs returning it's not out of the question that eventually he does return.

>>50455708
Chaos will win so that VIA contrived lel-warp bullshit, every existing faction manages to survive into the Age of Emperor.

>>50455708
GW will probably want to do same thing with 40k as they did with FB. Just pick some plot twist like "Hive Fleets were allure by Emperor to Terra so he could be finally dead and resurrected in new body" and start the Age of Emperor thing

>>50455571
>40k factions all give off the edge of 'unstoppability'. Even the Eldar have their 'Ynnead is coming, beware' thing.
Yes, but some do it more lazily than others. Orcs, Tyranids, and Necrons all get an everything-proof shield. The Chaos gods are so powerful they don't really need followers anymore, which is good because they're also so cartoonishly evil it's hard to see why anyone would follow them without mind control.

>>50455792
The games are in different places though.

FB was leaking players for a long time. 40k is their pride and joy.

They might do an M42 feature at some point, though. Keep the suspense up.

>>50455824
Well a lot of them ARE mind controlled or just broken mentally before being corrupted. They could use a good winding down on the whole 'super duper EVIL' though. A lot of it boils down to people just becoming corrupted by being slowly worn down over the years or quickly in a moment of desperation.

>>50455898
But my point is that that's shitty writing. It shouldn't be hard to see why people would willingly join (what is for most of them) the only viable alternative to the the Imperium given how they treat people, but because the Imperium HAVE to be the ultimate good guys so that [insert writer's favorite chapter] can be the white knights in shining armor, Chaos is almost never allowed to be relatable.

>>50455760
>>50455671
indeed, especially if they show a final pan out of just how vast the hive fleets are, the Milky way was but a small morsel to an inexorable and ultimately suicidal force

>>50456012
Stage 1 Chaos is relatable.
Slaanesh likes orgies.
Khorne likes honorable combat.
Tzeench like reading books.
Nurgle likes misfits.

Problem is, the lore states that Stage 1 will always inevitably lead down the rabbit hole to blithering comic book villain.

But at the same time, fans of Chaos enjoy that. They like the "give me your skull" thing. It's a niche, but a popular one.

>>50456155
Honestly, if 40k end times does go down, I'm half expecting the Tyranids to be the like the Lizard men and just say "fuck this we are out of here."

>>50456253
Well in a way it makes sense. They're CHAOS - they don't do anything halfway. It's perfectly acceptable that people join in 'stage one' and then go down the rabbit hole into being a crazed fucking monster. That's what Chaos wants - they're taking human emotions to their utmost extremes.

The Undivided groups are a lot more relateable though, mostly because they don't devote themselves to one god and lose themselves to that god. They could do a lot with that idea actually - the kind of mental resillience it would take to not lose yourself to the Ruinous Powers while simultaneously working for all of them at once.

>>50457013
I'm not sure the Word Bearers qualify as more approachable.

It seems like by the time you get to 'undivided', you're already cackling into the warp.

I do like the (usually unexplored) 'hedge witches' and other warp-things that are lored to pop up on distant planets. But that's largely the stuff for Dark Heresy and Rogue Trader games, rather than the main tabletop.

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>>50455791
I'm trying to think up a counter-argument to this, but you're probably right.

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>>50455791

What the fuck is this Age of emperor meme

Can 40ktards do anything right?

>>50457235
Don't post that picture please. We don't need to be reminded that most 40k franchise games are or end up as garbage.

>>50457235
It's people who are STILL butthurt over AoS pretending to not understand why they did it and acting like 40k is going to get the same treatment to have yet another thing to whine about

>>50457411
40K sales are down. This prompted GW to advance the plot. If they decline more, GW will start making drastic measures.

So here is the plan guys. We boycott 40K for a while. We need to get the sales levels to WHFB before the End Times level. We can bring the 40K End Times this way. You on the plan guys?

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>>50457411
>>50457449


Jokes on you

I never played the Table top games ever only the RPGs and video games

I used to read BL but their huge focus on the Horus Heresy and other bad series made me drop them

>>50457461
Then you need to return to /v/,

>>50457461

>I used to read BL but their huge focus on the Horus Heresy and other bad series made me drop them

1 million times this I only collect miniatures but the entire war gaming community for 40k is absolute balls

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>>50457479

How am I /v/ if I played the RPGs?

>>50457500

Because you never supported GW so your another type of lorefag cancer on this board

>>50454499
No, 40K autists just need to stop taking the lore literally.

>>50457657
the what are we supposed to take it as? lore needs to be reliable dammit

>>50457719
>the what are we supposed to take it as?
An excuse to bash your army dudes together, as is its actual purpose in life.

>lore needs to be reliable dammit
Only if you intend to cite it in stupid arguments on the internet.

>>50457719

Do what I do

Dont be a Horus heresy/Black Libary faggot who enforces their work like the word of the emperor himself

Take it as a setting not a story

Play the RPGs

>>50457751
if objective sources cant be cited why even have lore?

>>50457764
>not a story
the fuck?

>>50457775

So you know the backstory of your army you like.

Its okay to like Tabletop or lore but autismos around here take each one to seriously the tabletop fags being rallied into the general and then lorefags shitposting stupid ass threads about who would win or some retarded scenario

>>50457793

Its a setting the story parts are all retarded and most of them should ignored IE. Horus Heresy,Beast Arises which is fucking sad BL has pumped out a good book in ages

>>50457719

Codex lore is explicitly propaganda for the codex faction.

BL lore is explicitly stories which may or not may be true.

The whole point of 40K as a hobby, unlike the historically based miniature war gaming it's descended from, was that you could make up your own factions. It's a sandbox setting; you're supposed to use your damn imagination, not get into pissing contests over non-existent "canon".

>>50457719

>lore needs to be realible
>40k

I dont know whose worse lorefags or tabletopfags

>>50457911
>canon
>nonexistant
I don't understand, I need objective answers, I hate guessing and fumbling because I could be wrong

>>50457449
>pretending to not understand why they did it
See what I mean? Fantasy wasn't in some minor slump. It was basically dead from a sales perspective and there was no reason to continue supporting WHFB. Their options were to scrap it entirely or rebuild everything from the ground up. There's no reason to believe they'd do that to the IP that actually makes money.

>>50457974

>Lorefags

Like to start stupid shit,suck authors dicks and just get into useless arguments over mundane shit think they are top tier 40k fans after reading lexicanum for 3 hours and take the entire setting to seriously

>Tabletop fags

Also like to start stupid shit but this time argue over "competitive" shit in a fucking plastic wargame and take it to seriously and act like jaded assholes most of the time

Missing anything?

>>50455555
Nice quints

>>50454499
>Do they need a lore nerf?

WTF do you think happened to them in 5th edition? Their lore was raped in some of the most retarded ways, 2nd only to the "We bath in the blood of Sisters of Battle' Gray Knights codex shit-fest. 2 editions and 2 more sub-par codex revisions haven't done them any favors.

>>50455671
>Having the entire galaxy wiped clean by an uncaring super predator and then moving on seems like a more fitting end and more deserved for such a fucked up place as the 40k version of the Milky Way.

Chaos is the sins of the galaxy come to claim it. Inner demons made manifest.
It's a far more fitting end than some crappy space bugs.

>>50457615
You're*

>>50454499
The whole "It's just a scouting fleet" thing is really ominous but its not confirmed as 100% true so maybe not

>>50457201
>I'm not sure the Word Bearers qualify as more approachable.
Probably not approachable but it's easier to understand their motivations - they literally worship the big four as real gods the way the AdMech do with calculators and washing machines. There's at least a motive there. Same goes for the Black Legion and Red Corsairs - they're much easier to understand from a human perspective than say plague marines where no sane human being would ever willingly become one.

>>50454639
>>50454944
>>50455521
>>50455039
I would like the opposite, more an endless back and forth, no side getting completely worn down or possessed of some eventual victory condition.

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>>50458033
All you need to know is, I am Alpharius.

>>50458758
I should have been more clear. I agree that's the point of the setting, but I think it should be more of an early WWI style meat grinder. More "in practice, no one is ever going to have enough of an edge to break the deadlock" than "even on paper, it's almost literally impossible for half these factions to lose," if that makes sense. Look at orcs, for example. Unless every last orc spore is destroyed (again, almost literally impossible), they'll just repopulate. That makes it harder to care about any faction fighting the orcs, since they'll always be fighting a losing battle. Compare that to Abaddon vs. the Imperium, where there's a genuine back and forth. Yes, in aggregate the conflict is just as pointless because no one is going to win, but they COULD, which is better than the lore beating you over the head with how doomed everyone is from the get-go.

>>50455791
>>50455708
I don't like stagnation, it generally leads to a weakened setting and all the cool shit of the game disappearing because of artifical "grim dark" being added.

Also when it limits the setting eventually retcons are brought in to reseed the fluff with more cool shit to break which ruins the thematic loss in the setting.

I'd rather have escalating madness with every imaginable tactic, horror, secret gambit, hidden superweapons, and ancient relic being unleashed in greater and greater numbers until the entire setting escalates on all sides. Instead of gradual wimpering, the Imperium and all its enemies go out in a tremendous bang instead.

>>50455555
By the Way of Quints, Ynnnead yet grows

>>50457911
>Codex lore is explicitly propaganda for the codex faction.

Wrong. There is no nothing indicating this. In fact, the Admech and Stormtrooper dex showed them in a bad light. The Eldar dexes says they are dying and shows many of their defeats.

>BL lore is explicitly stories which may or not may be true.

BL and GW never said anything about this officially ever.

>The whole point of 40K as a hobby, unlike the historically based miniature war gaming it's descended from, was that you could make up your own factions. It's a sandbox setting; you're supposed to use your damn imagination, not get into pissing contests over non-existent "canon".

Nice pile of bullshit you puked out. You suppose to play and add your stuff within GW's story/narrative. However, your guys are utterly irrelevant to the canon/story GW is forging.

For example, if you played Oldcrons, then tough shit they no longer exist in the canon. You cannot pretend otherwise. Either play Newcrons or be left in the dirt.

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>>50461194
oh god please tell me it's not EVERYTHING IS CANON, EVEN THE CONTRADICTIONS, ESPECIALLY THE CONTRADICTIONS time again

>>50461336
It's not everything is canon. That's just horseshit by the fans. Again, the Newcron vs Oldcron thing. Are the oldcron lore canon? No, you fucking mouthbreather.

It's easy. New stuff trumps old stuff. You know, retcons. Like every setting ever.

>>50458385

But Chaos players are fags.

>>50454499
In lore I feel Nids feel like the biggest threat, followed by crons, I know chaos is GW fucking baby and they always say its the big bad but they just don't feel like they are as threatening as nids or crons

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>>50463035
>In lore

If you say this, then you didn't actually read the lore. Either because you are a fanboy or illiterate.

Chaos is about to break the walls of reality. The Warp itself will flood into reality and unmake everything. Time, space, and all life will be erased. Only Chaos will remain.

What is eating planets or waging petty wars of reconquest against the annihilation of all there is and ever will be? Chaos is just one step away from unleashing the apocalypse while the Tyranids and Necrons are not even close to anything.

>>50463087
God chaos wank is the worst, just like fantasy, doesn't matter about any other faction because "chaos is the scariest because!"

>>50463261
>"because"

They are near-omnipotent gods.

Necrons are just wacky machines and Tyranids are hungry animals.

>>50454499
No.

Nids are virtually the only non-Imperium faction in the game who aren't constantly failing at everything or totally insignificant.

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>>50454664
my man

>>50457615
>this board only accepts company shills.
Nah.

>>50463489
Most of their Hive Fleet failed, anon.

And there is no buts or ifs. Nid fleets objective is to survive and attain biomass. They got wrecked.

>>50458055
The fags who drift between and argue about literally nothing because they think it earns they cool points.

You, btw.

God no the whole point is they are a slowly encroaching unstoppable force.

If you really must nerf them slow there ships down even more they dont need that nerf but if they have to lose something make that it.

>>50455610
The last codex was pretty terrible.
The one before it was pretty good.

I did really like the story with the single assasian sending that leader insane though.

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>>50463696
>I did really like the story with the single assasian sending that leader insane though.

>>50463526
I said they were the only ones not constantly failing or totally insignificant, never said they were doing well. Only the Imperium is ever allowed to actually win in the major narrative.

But nids can at least say they wrecked Gryphonne, Sotha and that they also rolled over Cryptus even with the beast of the Bangles and Necron agasint them.

This makes them god-tier compared to every single other non-Imperium faction in the game.

So stand by my point. They don't need a fluff-nerf

>>50463526
Here we go with imperialfags trying to push the harmless meme, don't you understand that there are objectively more important secondary objectives they succeeded? of course you don't, they are too deep for you to even rationalise the intricacies of such achievements that are also kept sekret from everyone except the close circle of planners!!!

>>50454499
No, chaos and necrons do need it more.

>>50463887
To be fair, and clear, I do agree with last anon that non-Imperium factions are presented as pretty much harmless in the fluff.

I just think more of an effort should be made to present them as dangerous and not just a comical motley of bags for Marines to punch.

>>50463959
Eh Necron fluff-danger always seemed overblown to me. Other than the possession of some technology which just breaks the setting and means the Necron should never have lost anything (but for some reason said technology is never used in even a half-way decent manner) the Necrons are pretty pathetic in fluff.

The World Engine's their most successful gambit to date and it still go taken out at the cost of (really) just one Chapter which isn't much.

Other than that Imotehk's meant to be their greatest leader but has lost to both Helbrecht and Logan and the only other major conflict the Imperium has had with the Necron, Damnos, was an Imperium win.

With Chaos...I'd accept a fluff nerf of the Chaos Gods is necessary, but Chaos as a material faction are pretty harmless. Even when all the cards were in their favour (Horus Heresy) they still lost so badly that they weren't even able to keep control of a quarter of their territory and were all chased into a (by galactic standards) small area of space. Since then they've barely ever achieved any significant military achievements and usually only seem to collect artifacts which, we are assured, will one day let them win. Said artifacts don't ever seem to show up or get used for anything though.

>>50455555
I question Ynnead, because apparently in order to be born every eldar has to die, then the craftworld's infinity circuits have gotta unite, but if all the eldar are dead then who's gonna pilot the craftworlds? is there some sort of dead man's trigger in Eldrad's heart waiting for him to die before recalling all the craftworlds to one location? Or are they just hoping to have enough foresight to know when they're all fucked and put the things on autopilot then swallow a bullet?

>>50463998
And this is the problem. We're told that Chaos is a big threat, but when it comes to their actual physical forces, they're pathetic. I mean, they've been around for 10,000 years longer, but it feels like the Nids and Crons have had more successful major engagements than Chaos has had. Among the apocalyptic races, they feel pathetically weak by comparison.

>>50464051
All pretty pointless now anyway thanks to Captain Artemis and Eldard

>>50464059
Agreed, Chaos rarely feels like anything more than pirates. Orks, Necron and Tyranid all come across as if they require more military resources to combat.

Chaos often feels like it can, at most, raid the Imperium for an artifact before running away.

I've always questioned how the Horus Heresy turned out 'so' bad for Chaos. I mean, not that they lost, that's expected but...well...when you have an enormous empire of over a million world and almost a full HALF of it secedes you'd expect, even if they lost, for them to have retained control of some sort of power base instead of, apparently, all being chased into the Eye of Terror *shrugs*. Not sure how I'm meant to buy Abaddon is a bigger threat than Horus really either, his army can't even by a quarter of Horus' since Horus had half the Imperial Army and the Mechanicum on his side. Abaddon's Traitors can't replenish numbers as effectively as the Loyalists, I highly doubt GW will say that Space Marine Chapters turn renegade at such a rate that their are more renegade Marines than successor Chapters and Abaddon has a far smaller area within which to recruit mutants and cultits than Horus did with half the Imperial army.

Unless the Black Crusade is going to be 80% Daemons I just don't understand where Abaddon's manpower comes from.

Anyway that's just a long-winded way of saying I agree, Chaos could certainly stand to be buffed in the fluff a bit. Honestly every faction but the Imperium could. In fact, to be fair, every faction but the Loyalist Space Marines is probably more fair since it isn't like the Sisters have any major accomplishments to their name either.

>>50462917
every player is a fag, just to varying degrees. we all want our dudes to win.

>>50464061
Doesn't Eldrad get eaten by Slaanesh? Who is inexplicably hiding in a blackstone fortress.

>>50464097
>when you have an enormous empire of over a million world and almost a full HALF of it secedes you'd expect, even if they lost, for them to have retained control of some sort of power base

They did, for a time. But the Heresy was immediately followed by the Scouring, a period of time where the Imperium began actively hunting down the traitors and reconquering those worlds lost to them. It was during this time that Dorn and the Fists were subjected to Perturabo's Iron Cage, for example. Most of the rebellious legions fled to these bases first, and were only chased into the Eye during the Scouring.

That aside, I do agree with your broad point. GW's repeated attempts to turn Chaos into this force that's inevitably going to conquer the galaxy leaves a very bad taste in my mouth. Especially with the "And only humans could have stopped them!" garbage slung in on top. But that's maybe just me being a whiny xenosfag.

>>50463998
>Eh Necron fluff-danger always seemed overblown to me. Other than the possession of some technology which just breaks the setting and means the Necron should never have lost anything (but for some reason said technology is never used in even a half-way decent manner) the Necrons are pretty pathetic in fluff.

Pease open Fall of Orpheus, Shield of Baal Extermintus, "The Greater Good and the Ancient" if you want to see Necron super weapons in action.

Forming an opinion without nessary information. IMO, is the most vile thing ever. Especially when it's biased like yours.

>The World Engine's their most successful gambit to date and it still go taken out at the cost of (really) just one Chapter which isn't much.

It was taken out by a C'tan, the chapter just freed the C'tan shard.

And FoO would be more successful than it.

>Other than that Imotehk's meant to be their greatest leader but has lost to both Helbrecht and Logan and the only other major conflict the Imperium has had with the Necron, Damnos, was an Imperium win.

Imotekh lost two battles but his expansion and war with the Imperium remain successful.

Also you are lying bastard. The Sautekh dynasty has plenty of lore battles with the Imperium in which they crushed the Imperial forces. In one battle, the Sautekh wiped out three companies of Imperial Fists.

>ven when all the cards were in their favour (Horus Heresy) they still lost so badly

Get with the times. Master of Mankind was released. The Chaos Gods real objective was the Webway. And guess what? They won. The Emperir fell into despair and admitted it himself. The Chaos Gods won and the fate of humanity is sealed. If it happens now or after 10K years it matters not. The Chaos Gods will have the galaxy.

Horus was confirmed to be just the bonus round. They didn't care about his progress. In fact, they intended for him to lose.

>>50464154
No, this is old, retconned fluff that happened about a decade ago during the first 13th Black Crusade fluff. GW has stricken it all from the record and started rewriting everything.

>>50464214
>Get with the times. Master of Mankind was released. The Chaos Gods real objective was the Webway. And guess what? They won.
Retcon alert! retcon alert!

How they expect people to respect stuff like this is hilarious. Chaos is forever relegated to
>Oh but our real objective was over here tier
Noone cares. Noone accepts that.

>>50464218
I quite like the newest 13th black crusade. Nice that Magnus instigated it for once rather than Abbadon to suddenly stand up after years of brooding and go "Let's have another black crusade, in exactly the same way as before, and hope it goes better this time"

>>50454499

I say nay, the 40k universe is universally op. That's the attraction for me. Its Grim, its dark, its oppressive. Everyone seems pushed to the brink, which is where some of the most amazing stories can be told. I'm working on a new Warhammer 40k lore series and will be expanding on this subject through out it. At the risk of self whoring I would like your opinions on the intro I've made.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQjFkdBNwrc

>>50464059
>but when it comes to their actual physical forces

Seriously? Xenofags are just worthless when it comes to the lore.

When it comes to projecting power, the Chaos faction comes out first.

Necrons and Tyranids cannot hope to produce the destructive output of Chaos. Heck, Chaos in a moment did more damage to the Imperium than Tyranids can do in years. Literally destroying thousands of worlds in one moment.

Also the Black Crusades hold the utmost priority to the Imperium while Necrons, Tyranids, and other threats are ignored for the sake of combating the Crusades. You know why? Because the Black Crusade destroy thousands of worlds and spread the taint of Chaos across the Imperium. Tyranid Hive Fleets are lucky to break the hundred mark. Necron expansion, though fast, cannot match that scale of ruination.

>>50464234
Because it makes sense and the nobody cares about your opinions at GW.

The whole HH was started because the Emperor wanted to separate humanity from the Warp via the Webway and then guide humnity's psychic evolution until he severs their connection to the Warp. With no Webway, humanity will keep relying on the Warp and eventually they will explode into daemons due to their instability or they will follow the foot steps of the Eldar. Either way, Chaos won.

>>50464097
One, Abaddon mortal forces are said to dwarf anything Horus ever commanded. Apparently, the "Empire of the Eye" is huge.

Second, yeah. most of Abaddon's forces in 13th will be daemons. You wouldn't have asked that if you read what the Crimson Path is or read the recent "Traitor's Hate" campaign book.

This place isn't for spoonfeeding. You guys should be versed in the lore much better.

>>50464154
Might happen, might not (not gonna get into the eternal back and forth on that) but it hasn't happened 'yet' in fluff.

Not that it matters. Eldar would honestly have been better off if Eldard had been killed by Fulgrim way back when, Eldard is literally useless and just makes everything worse.

>>50464299
Fuck off Carnac.

>>50464326
I told you, I am Somonor!

>>50464208
What I mean though is that the Scouring was so successful. I'd have expected that the Traitor Forces, considering the sizes involved, would have been able to hold on to a great deal of territory rather than losing ALL of it.

Also, to be fair, 'and only humans could have stopped them' isn't gonna go away. I'm a xenosfag too so I know how that feels.

>>50464326
There's no point, just ignore him or abandon thread.

>>50464214
Orpheus I missed, good point.

Also those super weapons are fine but far below the one's I'm talking about. Nothing in Exterminatus or The Greater Good and the Ancient breaks the setting like Orikan's time travel and the Celestial Orrery would if the fluff ever actually acknowledged them in anything but passing. So not seeing what your point here is.

As for the World Engine, semantics, I don't say 'The Beast was taken out by Waaagh energy' I say he was taken out by the Imperium. The Imperium used the C'Tan to their advantage and won. Imperium beat them.

I will agree FoO was more successful though. It is definitley the only successful major campaign the Necron have ever persecuted.

Is the Sautekh Dynasty's expansion successful? I can't think of many systems or worlds they've taken recently to be honest. They lost Damnos recently.

Also I don't know if the Sautekh Dynasty has 'plenty' of lore. You mentioned one battle there. I don't know if that's 'plenty'.

Also, as I said, we aren't discussing the Chaos Gods. We're discussing their material forces. Please stay on topic if you want to dispute something.

>>50464234
It is truly amazing the extent of 'we didn't want to win we wanted X' which is employed to prevent Chaos from 'losing' despite their constant defeats.

>>50464347
You cannot ignore facts and proper citations, you coward.

>‘Why do you not marshal the battlefleets?’ asked Haryk. ‘Deploy the full forces at the Inquisition’s disposal against such a threat?’

>‘Because you don’t have them, do you?’ said Artemis. The inquisitor said nothing as the watch captain stepped closer. ‘Cadia burns under another of the Archenemy’s black crusades. Every ship, every weapon, every mortal who can carry a weapon is being sent to repel them, bleeding the resources elsewhere white. You don’t have anything to stand against this Leviathan.’

-The (new) Deathwatch novel

Leviathan is left to wiggle its way through the Imperium virtually unopposed because the Imperium is throwing everything its got at Abaddon's Crusade.

So wow the Tyranid race is so threatening to the Imperium to the point that it takes a backseat to dear old Abaddon and his posse.

>>50464342
Well, the various Traitor-held territories weren't united, either physically or diplomatically. Each would essentially have been its own little empire, probably no larger than a single star system, and wouldn't have been able to count on help from those nearby. A great many of them probably fell to the Xenos forces that were beginning to re-emerge in the wake of the Great Crusade, or fell to infighting within the Traitor's ranks as each Legion began to go its own way.

>>50464255
Its been better...still would have been nice if the Chaos Forces could have militarily won for a change.

>>50464268
Um...isn't it canonically stated that the Imperium has its largest fleet ever assembled since the Heresy at Armageddon?

Also when did Chaos destroy thousands of worlds in one moment? I must have missed that.

This sounds a lot like someone's wanking Chaos. I mean, don't get me wrong, I think as a faction they should be permitted to be a bit more successful, but this sounds like someone writing a Mary-sue fic.

>>50464318
So is your anwser that his army is 80% Daemons? The one I already said?

Well that's a let down.

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>>50454499
No Chaos does. It's all fucking "Just As Planned, none of these failures were actually failures. Our loss in the Cholercaust Crusade was just a clever ruse to destroy a shrine world that would have been the site of an actual loss in the 22nd Black Crusade."

>>50464388
This seems odd to me. I would still imagine that there's no reason every single Traitor Legion lost all holdings outside the Eye of Terror. Just considering how large the Galaxy is, and how powerful Tratior Legions are supposed to be, I'd find it strange if they, with the support of a full half of the Imperial Army and Mechanicum, couldn't have held onto sizeable bastions outside the Eye of Terror too.

Also is there any canon confirmation that any of their holdings fell to anything but the Imperium? Cause I'll admit though the concept that the resurgent Xenos threats endangered them is nice...I just can't see GW giving anyone but the Imperium credit for it in the fluff.

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>>50464373
>Orikan's time travel

He is the only one who can use it and it ends with dire consequences. He hides it from the rest of the Necrons.

>Celestial Orrery

Not a weapon and using it as a weapon can end up with the galaxy being destroyed.

>So not seeing what your point here is.

My point is that Necron super weapons are being used regularly in the lore. You just ignored them just because.

>As for the World Engine, semantics

No semantics. It wasn't the chapters skills or bravery that one the day. It was Necrontyr backstab politics and a C'tan's displeasure that won the day. At least with the Beast they had a plan. This is just a dumb stroke of luck.

>It is definitley the only successful major campaign the Necron have ever persecuted.

Bullshit.

Check the 5th ED and 7th Ed codex.

>Is the Sautekh Dynasty's expansion successful? I can't think of many systems or worlds they've taken recently to be honest.

How about you check the map or read the lore? Imotekh conquered 500+ worlds since his awakening.

>They lost Damnos recently

Wow. One world vs a hundred. A minor world at that.

>Also I don't know if the Sautekh Dynasty has 'plenty' of lore. You mentioned one battle there. I don't know if that's 'plenty'.

Open the codex and read the timeline.

>Also, as I said, we aren't discussing the Chaos Gods. We're discussing their material forces. Please stay on topic if you want to dispute something.

In the webway war, you ignorant degenerate, there was titans and traitor legionaries who fought for the Chaos Gods true goal. Also daemons are physical as well. And by the end of timeline there is practically little stopping them from manifesting in their billions.

>>50464401
>Also when did Chaos destroy thousands of worlds in one moment? I must have missed that.

The Great Awakening.

>but this sounds like someone writing a Mary-sue fic.

No matter what I say, everything would have been sue to you.

>>50464419
Have you like read the Beast series? It's back to spoonfeding.

The iron Warriors had a world fortress and a bunch worlds under their control. They were merrily bitter when the Beast Waaaagh! crashed down on them to make them sourly bitter.

>>50464439
won the day*

>>50464401
>Um...isn't it canonically stated that the Imperium has its largest fleet ever assembled since the Heresy at Armageddon?

I haven't read that anywhere. Assuming that's true, Armageddon happened in 997-998. Abaddon 13th Black Crusade in the last bit of 999. More than enough time to reroute some of the forces to Cadia before it falls. And it will fall.

>>50454499
Nerfing them in lore would ruin the point of their existence. They're SUPPOSED to be an imminent doom from an alien realm. In a time period when much of the Galaxy is known, the only material unknown is beyond our galaxy. The tyranids are a piece of what lies beyond. Making them a non-threat completely ruins their whole point.

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>>50461366
Old cannon best cannon. Retrocon is best 40k.
The current writers are shit and never got it. You can't stop me enjoying best 40k.

>>50458385
That dumb. You're dumb.

>>50463307
>Omnipotent gods in a sci-fi setting
>more threatening than the imminent alien doom from the void
Y'see my problem with this "Chaos = doom" crap? It is becoming less and less sci-fi flavored just like Starcraft.

>>50464851
>sci-fi flavored
>40k
40k has always been apart from sci-fi as a giant baroque space fantasy which cannibalised horror and occult themes as often as those from sci-fi.

>>50464806
It's poetic. You're a space bug.

>>50464851
>Y'see my problem with this "Chaos = doom" crap?

No.
Not only are seemingly omnipotent gods a pop sci-fi staple, but 40k is very much Fantasy flavoured and has been since its inception.

>>50464051
Eldar can reborn when they die, their souls travel the warp for a while before being reincarnated, but with Slaanesh around any souls enter the warp will be consumed, so if Ynead manage to destroy/stop Slaanesh, the Eldar will be saved.

But nvm captain knuckle head of the Doffworth don't like to listen to Xenos. I imagine he was at Baal when the Tyranid invade, when the Necron come offer aid he just blast the poor thing in its face while yelling "Fuck you!", basicly having a war on 2 front with his tiny kill squad, would be hillarious.

>>50464916
And this Chaosfag is why I vote for Tyranid buff

>>50464930
Because you're a retard?

>>50464924
Then how come Eldrad's plan in Death masque?

Because Ynnead needed all Eldat to die before being born, he made a plan to awakken her sooner so not all eldar have to die. When Ynnead awakens and does her work there would Eldar around to rebuild their empire.

So if they reincarnate after death, then his plan is pointless.

>>50464916
The problem with chaos in a nutshell
>So who are the bad guys?
>Well these the Omnipotent gods from another realm that wish to take over reality
>How come they haven't won?
>Ah well because um... they dont want to yet I guess..
>Ok.... are there any competent bad guys?

You cant have them be the super most badass ever, everything according to plan ever, literally no hope for anyone ever and then still be considered a threat when they havent already won.

>>50464974
How not?
When you consider that time means nothing to them and that it's all just a game to them.

>>50464880
The key operator in your comment being "As often as sci-fi."

It's gotten to the point that the fantasy is tipping that scale. The tyranids are one of the few purely sci-fi piecea in the setting. Squandering them would absolutely set the fluff off-balance. They desperately need to be hyped up as an imminent doom again to help reintroduce a senae of urgency.

In terms of flavor and emotion, Chaos is largely known. It's not a new frontier either in the fluff nor in the game. Therefore, it lacks the "fear of the unknown" in the narrative. Chaos is our own sins made manifest, therefore it is a good reflection of self and karma. It represents "fear of self". But again, it lacks the truly alien or unknown element.

Then you have the necrons, which are the "ancient horror from times gone by." But still, it is native to our galaxy.

Then you have the tyranids, whose true size and scope seems to be entirely unknown. They are not native, and are completely alien in how they think and act when compared to other known factions. They fulfill that crucial sci-fi role of "what's out there?" and then in turn fearing that unknown that lies beyond the void of space. They are incalcuably large, like space itsel. They personify the old sci-fi trope that space is terrifying (terror which in turn feeds chaos.) But we desperately need the fear of the unknown and the fear if self to be balanced and used appropriately. Chaos is receiving focus atm, but that focus will be meaningless if we don't have the "but guys...something ELSE is coming" tone present in the conflict.

You see what I'm getting at? While using our own personal demons as the big bad in a story isn't a terrible direction, it isn't as appropriate as using "it's out there and coming" as the big bad for a space setting.

>>50464991
Because thats not scary, interesting or relate-able.

>>50465012
>While using our own personal demons as the big bad in a story isn't a terrible direction, it isn't as appropriate as using "it's out there and coming" as the big bad for a space setting.

Chaos combines both though.
It comes from a place far stranger and more alien than Tyranids, who are ultimately just animal niggers from next door.

>>50465029
Being toyed with by beings mightier than you can comprehend is scarier and more interesting to me than space locusts.

>>50464974
>>How come they haven't won?
Because they're only omnipotent within their realm.

Which is, you know, why their aim is to plunge reality into said realm.

>>50464465
>The Great Awakening
Oh nice job Chaos a thousand worlds.

So, what was Inquisitor Kryptman's plan to cordon off Hive Fleet Leviathan by exterminatusing the planets around it called in the lore?

>The single largest act of genocide inflicted upon the Imperium since the Horus Heresy - Codex Tyranids 4e

Face it. The mere after effects of the Tyranid's presence is more damaging than Chaos. The Eldar have destroyed so many worlds to stop Leviathan. The conflict between the Orks and Leviathan tendrils have ravaged hundreds of worlds.

The only reason Chaos is a threat is because if Xenos. Without Xenos, the Imperium could focus their forces much more effectively around Warp storms and slap the shit out of any Chaos fleet that comes through. However, without Chaos, Xenos would still be a threat. The Imperium would still be suffering to meet all these varied threats across the galaxy. Hive Fleets would still be devastating (and yes, they do take hundreds of worlds easily, not sure where you're getting them struggling from), Ork WAAAGHs would still ravage many worlds, the Eldar would still be fucking with the Imperium all over, and the Necrons would still be in the ascent with their empires.

Without Xenos, Chaos would be a footnote after the Horus Heresy.

>>50465084
>Without Xenos, the Imperium could focus their forces much more effectively around Warp storms and slap the shit out of any Chaos fleet that comes through.

But the prime threat of Chaos comes from within. You can place guards around a warp storm but you can't guard against some guy becoming tainted half a galaxy away.

>>50465038
But that unknown place of chaos comes from ourselves. It is the unknown "within." It is a lack of knowing ourselves

Tyranids are the "unknown without." They are outside and apart.

We say that "chaos is supah strange and more horrifying than reality" because we don't know the depths of our own depravity and madness. Chaos represents that depravity and madness. But it is THEMATICALLY INCONSISTENT for them to ALSO represent the unknown threat from without. That is where and why people scream "CHAOSWANK." Because chaos has begun to encroach on the thematic domains of other factions within the lore, therefore upsetting the balance of the setting. While that fact alone is oddly appropriate for chaos, it is also far too meta and leaves much of the fanbase unsatisfied.

Chaos should remain the horror from within. Xenos should remain as "fear of our neighbors and others." Tyranids should remain the horror from beyond.

>>50457793
40k is a setting, not a story. You can craft your own smaller stories of any type somewhere in the galaxy but there shouldn't be huge stories affecting the entire setting going on right now. And BL takes the mystery away from the earlier lore.

>>50455339
>>They pretty much all do. Only the Tau lack a win-condition - as it should be.


The victory condition of the Tau is not to upgrade the Pulse Rifle for Rail Rifle?

>>50455708
Orks winning would still mean only war

Just a lot greener

>>50465114
>But that unknown place of chaos comes from ourselves.

Not quite.
It helps to shape it, but there are elements entirely divorced.
It lacks space, time and matter, and is a far stranger place than the next galaxy over.

>Tyranids should remain the horror from beyond.

The threats of the Imperium were typically codified in three ways. Within, without and beyond.
Within is heretics.
Without is xenos.
Beyond is Chaos.

>>50465143
Orks HAVE won.

>>50465170
elaborate?

>>50465084
>Oh nice job Chaos a thousand worlds.

Hmm....you are that stupid. The point is about destructive potential. Chaos via the human psychic evolution can destroy countless worlds in an instant. Potentially all the galaxy.

Tyranids require mouths, years, and even with that they cannot come close to that level of destruction.

>So, what was Inquisitor Kryptman's plan to cordon off Hive Fleet Leviathan by exterminatusing the planets around it called in the lore?

Made to give the Imperials breather to fight off the real threat which is Chaos.

>ace it. The mere after effects of the Tyranid's presence is more damaging than Chaos.

Bullshit.

Eldar and imperials both agree that Chaos is the real enemy while Tyranids and Necrons are just sideshows. The fights with Tyranids and other threats are skirmishes compared to the coming fight against Chaos.

You seem to forget that Imperium abaddoned everything and rushged to stop Abaddon's 13th Black Crusade. All Xenos threats were ignored and Tyranids are among them.

>Without Xenos, Chaos would be a footnote after the Horus Heresy.

Did that Emperor say that? Lets paraphrase what he said. "Chaos won. Today or after 10K years, humanity will fall to them". He didn't say xenos or whatever. he said Chaos. Because Chaos isn't just from without. It's from within. Humanity is going to explode into daemons very soon.

>>50465180
>In the grim darkness of the future, this is only war
The orks win so long as the war never stops.

>>50465180
The ork victory condition is a good fight.

>In the grim darkness of the far future, there is only war.

>>50465180
Its just a meme.

>>50465127
That's right. Warham Fantasy was a story.

Warham 40K is a setting.

>>50465168
>Not quite.
>It helps to shape it, but there are elements entirely divorced.
>It lacks space, time and matter, and is a far stranger place than the next galaxy over
I don't think you understand what I'm saying. I said THEMATIC representation, not the technical details within the fluff. Theming is extremely important when you craft an operatic setting like 40k. On a broad scale, everything needs to be crafted in relation to the human condition.

>Beyond is chaos
I disagree, since chaos as it is comes from within. The chaos gods would not exist were it not for us (us being the sapient emotional beings of the universe.)

>>50465192
>>50465193
Oh yeah, ok

I thought some new lore had come out with them all banding together or some shit

Like maybe in response to the nids invading or the skelies waking up, given that those were the exact type of threat they were designed to fight

>>50465114
Why are you trying to have a serious, academic discussion with someone who described Tyranids as "animal niggers next door"?

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>>50464924
Can't really expect anything less from the guy who was quoted as saying (in old lore, if that matters, which of course it does):

>Do not ask, 'Why kill the alien?'
>rather, ask, 'Why not?'

>>50465170
>saying something like that in a thread Carnac's in

>>50465192
>>50465193
Lets check the lore.

Actually, it says that the Orks have a primal desire to conquer the galaxy. Also that the Orks have a purpose that they programmed with and must achieve. To achieve this purpose, they will need to spawn a "Beast Ork".

The latest incarnation of that Beast Ork is Ghaz.

>>50465229
Necrodermis is living metal. I know it's hard to believe but that's the truth.

>>50465218
I like talking to myself. And since talking to him is like talking to a wall, it feels like I'm talking to myself. It's fun.

>>50465232
So if they spawn this beast Ork incarnation of Gork/Mork towards the crescendo of WAAAAGH Ghazgkull would the orks have a good chance of winning the whole thing? Or would they squabble and infight like all the other WAAAGH's have ended.

>>50464944
Because you are edgy faggot with shit taste

>>50465211
>I don't think you understand what I'm saying. I said THEMATIC representation, not the technical details within the fluff.

I understand what you're saying, but you don't understand something can occupy both spaces at once. Chaos does and always has.

They are born from the darkness of human (and inhuman) souls but into a realm that is unimaginably alien. It is from this place beyond space and time that they come to eat your soul.

>I disagree

There's nothing to disagree about. That's how they've always been billed. Beyond is their territory, without is one Tyranids share with other xenos.

>>50465275
>I understand what you're saying, but you don't understand something can occupy both spaces at once.
Which is exactly what makes them more boring and renders other factions irrelevant. It is exactly why they upset the balance in the setting. They are occupying too many thematic domains in a space opera.

>and always has
Debatable.

At this point, it seems the source of our disagreement comes from different impressions of which factions occupy which roles at what times and to what degree.

>>50465258
Ghaz's plan is generating enough Waaaagh! energy to manifest Gork and mork into the galaxy.

Assuming that Gork and Mork aren't defeated by anything in the End Times, then nothing can stand in the way of the Orks,

>love the Tyranid lore
>people tell me to pic the army whos models/lore I love
>Tyranids are absolute dogshit on the tabletop
>picked Admech instead

Surely Tyranids will get an update some day.

Surely.

>>50465180
Just that, until BL made orks into humans.

>>50465184
Motherfucker, just because the Imperium sees Chaos as a bigger threat doesn't make them so. Remember, the Imperium has a millennia long grudge with Chaos. I would expect them to abandon war fronts to fight Chaos. For God's sake, the Dark Angels will leave very important war zones to go capture a single Fallen. But the Imperium hating Abbadon more doesn't mean he's a bigger deal. It's not like the Imperium doesn't have a history of shitty decision making.

Also, oh so the Emperor is omniscient now? Boy he did a great job foreseeing all of his fuck ups and fixing them, now didn't he? The codexes and rule books still say the Tyranids have eaten a dozen galaxies, we are their latest meal, they are unstoppable unless some miraculous happens, but I guess we should take the word of a character in the setting over the word of the OMNISCIENT NARRATOR!

Besides, you're utterly forgetting that Chaos is self defeating. They are not a unified front. They backstab, they fuck themselves over. Are you saying you can't see Kharn hitting an exhausted Abbadon in the back with Gorechild as revenge for beating him in that one fight? Are you saying you can't foresee a future where Huron Blackheart, leader of the second largest Chaos force, decides he wants to be warmaster now and sucker punches Abbadon? Hell, it's even been stated that the Chaos Gods care a shit ton more about fighting the Great Game in the Warp than they do about anything going on in real space. Chaos, surprise surprise, is a self-defeating, non unified threat.

Wanna know the biggest advantage the Tyranids have over the other forces of the galaxy? They are a unified force. The galaxy's only truly unified force. Every Tyranid is working towards the same goal and is all on the same plan and idea. There is no infighting in the Tyranids except when the Hive Mind wants to see which Hive Fleet is better. No Hve Tyrant is going to betray the Hive Mind to pursue his own goal. They are all in this together.

>>50465071

So incroprehensably mighty that even our concept of success doesn't apply. I honestly feel for Chaos players. Your dexes are shit because the rules team hates you, and your lore is shit because everyone on that team is trying to jack you off without letting you finish.

>>50465104

You can just fucking shoot him afterwards and pump out more guys. Which is what usually happens.

>>50465312
>Which is exactly what makes them more boring

It doesn't though.
Chaos are far more interesting than any xenos.
They upset no balance because there is no balance to be had. In most fantasy there is usually an evil force more powerful than any other. That is Chaos' place.

>>50465071
So, in other words, it doesn't matter what argument anyone makes that chaos isn't meant to be the endgame of the setting, you're going to find a way to argue they should be the endgame because, ultimately, they are your favorite big bad and are the most appealing to you personally and so therefore deep down you want them to win no matter what?

This is why people like you shouldn't write stories. You let your own personal interests and feelings interfere with the setting, balance, and themes.

>>50465368
You hope you can shoot him fast enough before the taint spreads and he summons the apocalypse.

>>50465406

Wow, that's really impressive. Chaos can, with only a single man, take out a planet. Why, with that kind of power, they could take over the galaxy!

> Oh wait...

>>50465388
But 40k isn't a pure fantasy. That was Fantasy, ya dingus.

>It doesn't though. Chaos is far more interesting than any xeno
That is a matter of pure opinion and personal preference.
>there was no balance to be had
Yes there was. That is what made 40k a setting for faction conflict.

It is clear to menow that you don't want balanced factions or themes, nor multiple appeals. You just want Chaos to be the "be all end all" of the setting.

This is the definition of chaoswank. You don't see it because you are it.

And before you start pointing fingers that I just want my own faction to win over chaos or anything like that....Nigger. I play Sisters. Sisters are my favorite faction. So choke on it because gods know I've been choking on it for the better part of 13 years.

>>50465344
>Motherfucker, just because the Imperium sees Chaos as a bigger threat doesn't make them so. Remember, the Imperium has a millennia long grudge with Chaos. I would expect them to abandon war fronts to fight Chaos. For God's sake, the Dark Angels will leave very important war zones to go capture a single Fallen. But the Imperium hating Abbadon more doesn't mean he's a bigger deal. It's not like the Imperium doesn't have a history of shitty decision making.

Actually, it does. Because the threat Abaddon poses is straight to their heart land. Also Abaddon intends on obliterating the Cadian Pylons. You know whatt hat means? That the Eye will grow without restraint fed by the death and carnage of the crusade. It will grow and grow until the whole galaxy will be swallowed up by the large ass warp storm. So daemons for everyone. Not mention how the walls of reality, already thin as ice, will react to the Chaos Gods smashing against them. Tyranids compared to the apocalypse are peddles.

>Also, oh so the Emperor is omniscient now?

As someone who can gauge the power of the Chaos Gods more than anyone. And he still alive in 41K and he still sees the Chaos apocalypse looming.

>The codexes and rule books still say the Tyranids have eaten a dozen galaxies

And the daemon codex says that most of the material universe was shattered by Tzeentch's fight with his fellow gods. Also in Beast series we realized that Chaos exists outside the galaxy. And in the Ultramarine omnibus we saw a vision of Khorne conquering an alien galaxy.

>but I guess we should take the word of a character in the setting over the word of the OMNISCIENT NARRATOR!

I know, right? See >>50463087

>>50465467
>Besides, you're utterly forgetting that Chaos is self defeating.

It's not. When thing matter they are not. Were self defeating in the HH? No. Were they self defeating in the WHFB End Times? no.

like Archaon, Abaddon has united Chaos. The Chaos Gods will tolerate no one hindering their carefully laid out plans.

>Hell, it's even been stated that the Chaos Gods care a shit ton more about fighting the Great Game in the Warp than they do about anything going on in real space.

Except for the times when they get invested in something like, you know, the HH and END TIMES.

>Wanna know the biggest advantage the Tyranids have over the other forces of the galaxy? They are a unified force. The galaxy's only truly unified force. Every Tyranid is working towards the same goal and is all on the same plan and idea. There is no infighting in the Tyranids except when the Hive Mind wants to see which Hive Fleet is better. No Hve Tyrant is going to betray the Hive Mind to pursue his own goal. They are all in this together.

It does not matter. Tyranids are nothing compared to an entire universe crashing into another.

>>50465481

>Uses Age of Sigmar to say Chaos is unified
>Forgetting Khorne abandoned the chance to finally kill Sigmar so he could wank over how cool he was and reconquer the Realms for the forces of Order

Also

>Not self defeating in HH
>Entire rebellion split into thousands of pieces the second Horus died
>90% of them mopped up by Scouring

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>>50465326
>some day

Historically they're one of the most regularly updated armies (quality of those updates - at least the more recent ones - aside). 7th looks like it might be the first edition where the Tyranids didn't receive a new codex, though there's still time.

Perhaps they'll even go back to putting an actual Tyranid player in charge of it, as out there as the idea may be.

>>50465481
>your argument is invalid because chaos wins always no matter what because it is the biggest baddest strongest everything and nothing you say changes that
Fucking die.

>>50465481
>It's not. When thing matter they are not.
You were Chaoswanking so hard you forgot crucial part of Chaos lore, one that makes Chaos cool.

>>50464097

Keep in mind that due to the vagaries of the EoT, it's entirely possible for a Traitor Marine to fight in the 6th, 8th, 9th and 12th Black Crusades before dying in the 4th.

>>50465526
But anon, how can Chaos be cool if it isn't the best at everything and utterly infallible when all is said and done?

>>50465466
>But 40k isn't a pure fantasy.

Pure or not doesn't really matter.
They're the Sith, the Reapers, the big bad.

>Yes there was.

No there wasn't. 40k is and and always was widely rooted in the Imperium. Chaos and the Imperium are intrinsically linked. From the Emperor, to the Horus Heresy and beyond. The Imperium is the focus and Chaos is the arch enemy of the Imperium.

>It is clear to menow that you don't want balanced factions or themes, nor multiple appeals. You just want Chaos to be the "be all end all" of the setting.

I'm fine with multiple appeals. Necrons and Eldar appeal to me for example, but that doesn't mean they need to be equally powerful as the archenemy.

>This is the definition of chaoswank. You don't see it because you are it.

I simply know the fluff. If Chaos had always been some loser cult and the Tyranids had been the top dog all along then I would say so, but that's not the truth.

>>50465512
>>Uses Age of Sigmar to say Chaos is unified

United under who? Archaon. The moment Archaon left to Varanspire/Allpoint got busy doing something else after defeating Sigmar everything fell apart and the Chaos Gods fought for the spoils of Chaos's victory.

Figures like Archaon and Abaddon keep Chaos united. As long as they remain in command, Chaos will unite and become unstoppable.

>>Not self defeating in HH

Horus and the traitors were the distracting carnifex. The true aim was the Webway. The Chaos Gods beautiful orchestrated the whole thing and kept at it until the won the Webway War and basically won the 40K setting with it.

>>50465546
You realize the closest thing to the Reapers in 40k is the necrons, right? Seconded Tyranids.

And the Sith never ended the universe. They periodically take over then lose again due to their own incompetence or the jedi.

Stop defeating your own argument, chaosfag.

>>50465071
>beings mightier than you can comprehend

You see, this shit is one of the biggest shows for why The Chaos Gods are hacks. This "Too mighty to Comprehend" crap is hack writer code for "I want to include a super powerful being that is omniscient and super-powerful being that everyone respects and fears, but I don't want readers to accuse me of being a masturbatory favoritism faggot nor do I want to end the story that early. I Know, I'll do what Lovecraft! I'll have the Being act in erratic, nonsensical ways, and have them either make stupid mistakes and/or not use their full power when their goals are on the line, to keep them from insta-winning. But I'll assert that these desciosn are because their motives and thought processes are beyond mortal humans to understand, rather than give them/acknowledge the fact that they have detrimental personality and intelligence flaws and/or limits to their power. That way, the readers can't possibly criticize them or not treat them as the amazing deity they are!"

Seriously, it's equivalent of that sore loser who goes "Y-yeah, well, I wasn't even trying anyways. This game is stupid."

File: Destroyer of Worlds.png (3MB, 1333x1021px) Image search: [Google]

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>>50465521
>You : Chaos is self defeating!

>Me : Not in crucial junctions see HH and End Times.

Enter your tantrum post.

>>50465526
99% of the time Chaos fights itself

1% of the time a figure of great destiny emerges to unite them for great goal or conquest. Be'lakor, Horus, Abaddon (Archaon), and whoever that will come after them.

This is also a nature of Chaos.

>>50465587
And Chaoswank continues

>>50465597
Chaos Undivided rises, you mean.

You know what Undivided means?

>>50465570
>You realize the closest thing to the Reapers in 40k is the necrons, right? Seconded Tyranids.

Mechanically sure, in terms of their place in the setting, no.

>And the Sith never ended the universe.

Again, it's not the way they act it;s that there's a food chain.

The Reapers and the Sith are like Chaos in that they sit on top of the villainous food chain in their settings. There are other villains in the setting, but they're not the top dogs.

>>50465587
But Age of Sigmar is just worse for Chaos. Not only did all their major enemies survive they all got power ups. The Destruction of the Fantasy World seems like a dumb move to be honest, for the Chaos Gods, since it even brought Slaanesh so far down that mere mortals could freaking kidnap him/her/it. That's the single biggest defeat any Chaos God has ever suffered at all!

>>50465570
I am dumb as bricks and I understood what the guy was saying. Step up, senpai.

>>50455039
Eh, Chaos kind of loses if the Tyranids kill all the other sentient races. There'll still be demons and shit left over but their purpose and goal is kind of bunk if some space bugs kill everything.

>>50465607
Ugh. Do you even hear yourself when you talk?

>>50465606
Chaos that exists in the constant state of self-fuckery and strife unable to unite and rather staying in constant shifting mess forever? It doesn't Chaos that unites to show how kewl and totally badass it is, that's not Chaos anymore, chaosfag.

>>50465575
Agreed. Its just lazy writing and half the time the fluff isn't even consistent about it.

>>50465531
Yeah but even so that still is vastly inferior to the numbers Loyalist Marines will have.

>>50465635
Yup, I think I'm being pretty reasonable.
Chaos is the Empire.
Tyranids is Jabba the Hutt.

>>50465628
>>50465607
Stop samefagging

Arguing with Chaosfags is utterly pointless. No matter what you say, chaos always wins 'cause MUH UNKNOWABLE EVUL.

I'm out. Good luck trying to end the wank, brethren. I hope you have better luck ramming your head into a brick wall than I did.

File: Archy7.jpg (2MB, 1536x2000px)

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>>50465624
Yes, the enemies of Chaos got stronger because they didn't bother making sure they ate the whole world so that result in Mallus escaping into space. Sure Slaanesh was kidnapped...HOWEVER.

After Archaon returned from blowing up numerous realities and universes, he bitched slapped the whole Pantheon of Order and conquered all the realms save one. Slaanesh kidnapping was facilitated by Khorne and Tzeentch. Remember that Slaanesh was feared by the rest of the Chaos since one day he will grow to overshadow them all since he feeds on their excesses. In his place the Horned Rat sits. A powerful and very helpful godling. Also Malerion and Tyrion, God of Shadow and Light, kidnapped a bloated and crippled Slaanesh. They weren't mortals.

Anyways, the Eye of Sheerin has seen into the future. The Eye is always accurate. Guess what it sees? Archaon will destroy Sigmar and the Chaos Gods will rejoice. Then Archaon will finally claim his birthright, the Ghal Maraz.

>>50465696
Anti-chaosfags always bitch out when defeated, why is this?

>>50465232
To be fair nowhere does it say spawning a 'Beast Ork' is the actual Telos of the Orks. Eldrad just mentions the cry of 'Mag Uruk Thraka' resounds across the Othersea and that one day the Orks MIGHT return to their original purpose.

To be fair Chaos is just lucky the Eldar made Slaanesh since the Eldar literally ruled for hundreds of thousands of years with the ability to calmly move their spirits through the Warp without any fear of Daemons. In many ways Chaos owes its entire being a threat purely to the birth of Slaanesh.

>>50455555
Ynnead's blessing is as clear as crystal.

>>50465184
Actually in Valedor the Eldar forsee that the most likely end of the galaxy is the Nids and Necron warring over a lifeless galaxy.

>>50465640
I am not sure what you are on about.

40K Chaos =/= total anarchy.

Chaos just means that they come from the Realm of Chaos not that they are Chaotic like the guys in MK's Chaos Realm or lolrandom.

>>50465706
>anon doesn't think Chaos should be the ultimate evul forever of the setting and stronger than all else
>must be anti-chaos

>>50465607
>The Reapers and the Sith are like Chaos in that they sit on top of the villainous food chain in their settings
Chaos isn't even apex predator in 40k and that makes 40k as a setting better. We have several powerful villains and all of them want to destroy each other. Forces of madness and darkness against alien locust killing machines against ancient robots against green hooligan fungi against who knows what else. And that's great.

>>50465728
Actually, you didn't read the novel because you are getting it wrong and that skein of fate was deleted when the Eldar won in Duriel.

>>50465738
Whatever you say, Chaosfag

>>50465704
>After Archaon returned from blowing up numerous realities and universes.

No.

Go fuck yourself.

>>50465747
>Chaos isn't even apex predator in 40k

Yes it is.
Do you just not read any fluff that's not your favourite faction's?

>>50464641
Ghazghkull's fleet in Armageddon is canonically called the 'largest fleet to ever assail an Imperium world' and we also know that 'every system within light years' has been put on total war footing just to feed Armageddon. So clearly not all forces are being diverted.

In addition the Ork Codex mentions two nearby Ork Empires which, if they united, could stop Abaddon's Crusade in its tracks.

Look nothing's wrong with talking Chaos up, but what you're doing is sad.

>>50465747
But anon, how can it be great if Chaos isn't the MOST EVIL DARKEST APPOCALYPSE TO END ALL that is also playable and helps fags feel more powerful when they play it and tell themselves it is the ultimate, therefore they are the ultimate?

>>50465767
You don't even read your favorite faction fluff, chaoswanker

>>50465747
>Chaos isn't even apex predator in 40k

Yes, they are. The fluff says so. Daemons of Chaos according to the sourcebooks are the most dangerous foe any Imperial trooper will ever face. Even the Custards cannot handle them since their genius level battle intellects cannot process a good tactic or strategy when facing a foe that's as chaotic and varied as the daemons.

>>50465745
>Hates Chaos fluff
>But I am NOT anti-Chaos

>>50464465
The Great Awakening doesn't say their destroyed you twit, it says lost! That's completely different. The Imperium loses 1000's of worlds every day and then recovers 1000's more. Be specific in your language and cite fluff correctly.

>>50465788
I'm not sure if are serious or ironic

>>50465767
>>50465788
What a surprise. More samefagging to appear relevant

>>50465787
I read all the faction's fluff.

>>50465559

That's retarded. Again. You've made on guy the entire guiding force of a galaxy-wide conflict. Again. When he dies, which he will, because at the end of the day he's just another CSM with better gear, Chaos falls apart. Again.

Also, >The true aim was the Webway

This is why no one takes Chaos seriously. You had the Imperium dead to rights, then fucked off because your leader was dead, completely forgetting that THE EMPEROR WAS DYING. If they had kept up the assault, they would've wiped out the Imperium. This Webway shit is an excuse, an ass-pull of epic proportions, because Chaosfags can't admit that their dudes fumbled during the winning play of the Super Bowl.

>>50465797
I have old Chaos armies both in 40k and WHFB and I hate your version of the fluff, chaoswanker

>>50465797
No one ever said I hate Chaos fluff but you, Mr.Strawman.

>>50464439
To Orikan and the Celestial Orrery: That's my point, the technology is handled poorly in order to excuse why the Necron don't win. That's exactly what I said.

How many of those 500+ Worlds are Imperial? Could you cite which 500 worlds these are? You seem to just be making up rubbish.

Additionally, again, we're discussing the Material Forces of Chaos and their impotence. You've displayed nothing to counter this.

Honestly talking with you is like talking with a screaming howler monkey but more aggravating.

>>50465824
With your ass

>>50465762
What do you mean no? You got triggered by what's in the fluff?

>>50465783
>Ghazghkull's fleet in Armageddon is canonically called the 'largest fleet to ever assail an Imperium world' and we also know that 'every system within light years' has been put on total war footing just to feed Armageddon. So clearly not all forces are being diverted.

Again happened in 997-998 befoire Abaddon launched his Crusade in 999 41K. The lore about rerouting of the forces happen in 999 41K.

>In addition the Ork Codex mentions two nearby Ork Empires which, if they united, could stop Abaddon's Crusade in its tracks.

That's because Abaddon plan hinges on taking Cadia. If something happened and he fails to topple Cadia, then the whole Crimson Path is kaput

>Look nothing's wrong with talking Chaos up, but what you're doing is sad.

Says the guy who lacks in lore knowledge.

>>50465788
This reminds me of when the Necron Codex said Imotehk can anticipate all foes BUT Orks because they are the one foe he finds no logic in.

>Orks more Chaotic than Daemons

>>50465827
>I have old Chaos armies both in 40k and WHFB

Those poor models. Belonging to someone who doesn't even read the fluff.

>>50465829
>No one ever said I hate Chaos fluff

Why so keen to change it then?

>>50465696
I must admit...I'm normally sympathetic to Chaos since I feel they perform poorly but...this...this is making me honestly want things to remain as are and Loyalist kick their asses every time.

>>50465840
Inbred subhumans such as you may have eyes in their ass, but real human beings have them on their face.

>>50465851
Luckily enough, my IWs and undivided band don't belong to you. You are aworse than a pimple on Nurgle's magnificient ugly ass.

File: 136.gif (3MB, 400x225px)

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>>50465851
>Why so keen to change it then?

>>50465673

No. The Imperium is the Empire, Chaos and Tyranids don't exist in Star Wars. And if Chaos WAS the Empire, Tyranids would not be JABBA THE FUCKING HUTT, ARE YOU SERIOUS?

Why the fuck are you people arguing with Carnac?

He isnt here to discuss fluff fairly or reasonably. He changes his opinion on every new BL release (see his webway importance rants rants). Just stop responding. You are getting baited. You are giving him (you)s which is why he is here. Just STOP.

>>50465797
I have Chaos armies! My second and third armies were CSM and Daemons respectively. I like Chaos, but the amount of wanking they've been getting lately is ridiculous. Why make a wargame setting based around multiple powerful factions all vying for victory, and only then say it's all pointless because these one guys will win because fuck you just ignore the fact they lose all the fucking time?

The new Chaos wank isn't just bad for Xenos and Imperial players. It's making Chaos fluff worse as well and making it's players total idiots. You all got so empowered because of Fantasy End Times. Before End Times, nobody said Chaos's victory was assured. But thanks to some shit writing and ADB, you all think you're hotter shit than you really have been portrayed to be, all because we're told, not shown, that's Chaos is the bestest.

>>50465704
Dude you're just agreeing with everything I said.

Also which realities did Archaon blow up? Can you name them?

Also I don't remember Archaon even fighting the whole Pantheon. Not to mention if I recall all his armies in the Realms of Light and Shadow mysteriously dissappeared and his army and main fort in the Beast Realm gets repeatedly Curb-Stomped by Orruks. Not to mention the Ironjawz apparently thriving. Seriously Chaos screwed up big time when they ended the Fantasy World. They put themselves in a worse spot now than they've ever been before.

None of the other Chaos Gods even take the Horned Rat seriously, neither does Archaon, so what's the point of even mentioning him?

>>50465878
>ARE YOU SERIOUS?

Yes.

>Star Wars
>Apex villain: Empire
>Lesser villain: Jabba the Hutt

>Warhammer 40k
>Apex villain: Chaos
>Lesser villain: Tyranids

Tyranids are to warhammer 40k what Jabba the Hutt is to star wars. A side show villain.

>>50465800
When daemons control a world, It's good as destroyed. It's tainted forever or worse a daemon world.

And no. According to the timeline, the Imperium is collapsing. It's losing on all fronts.

>>50465809
Not sure if you read the fluff or not.

>>50465825
>That's retarded. Again. You've made on guy the entire guiding force of a galaxy-wide conflict. Again. When he dies, which he will, because at the end of the day he's just another CSM with better gear, Chaos falls apart. Again.

Goddamnit you are an idiot. It's said that Abaddon like Horus before are untouchable by mundane weapons. He is the Chaos Ascendant. like how Archaon was the Everchosen, the Chaos Gods full might protect him.

Unless the Chaos Gods will overwise, he won't fall until he achieves what they want.

>You had the Imperium dead to rights,

Horus wasn't the one chosen to bring Chaos into ascendancy. He is the Sacrficed King, Abaddon is the chosen one and the True King. Thus the Chaos Gods decreed.

Also time in the warp means nothing. 1 year or 10K. It's all the same inside there.

>>50465753
What kind of argument is this?

Yeah, the Eldar prevented the Nids from winning, doesn't change that your argument of Chaos always wins was invalid since if the Eldar hadn't taken their actions then the Nids and Crons would have won.

Besides, if we're going by that. then we should remember that before he 'dies' the Farseer briefly sees 'the whole skein' and we're told his soul 'sparks with joy'.

>>50465869
Pfff, what is this gibberish brainrot speech, chaoswanker?

>>50465842
The third war of Armageddon isn't over anon, its ongoing. In fact according to the latest fluff it is only getting bigger.

>>50465887
>Why make a wargame setting based around multiple powerful factions all vying for victory, and only then say it's all pointless because these one guys will win because fuck you

Because not all factions are written equally. Why is this hard to understand?

>>50465879
Dear god, you're right. I've been had.

I'm out.

For the record, nids should be buffed not nerfed.

>>50465901
No...numerous worlds with Daemon Invasions have been saved. Alaric Prime, there, easy one.

>>50465831
>To Orikan and the Celestial Orrery: That's my point, the technology is handled poorly in order to excuse why the Necron don't win.

No, you have no point. These tools cannot be used by the rest of the Necrons because either they are personal or because they are not mean as weapons. Necrons using the Orrey means unless they make painstaking recalibration will endanger the balance of the whole galaxy.

Then you ignore all the tools the Necrons used befoe.

>How many of those 500+ Worlds are Imperial? Could you cite which 500 worlds these are? You seem to just be making up rubbish.

Why do I have to cite them? The point was about Imotekh's expansion.

>Additionally, again, we're discussing the Material Forces of Chaos and their impotence. You've displayed nothing to counter this.

Actually, I did. Read though the thread.

>>50465911
I don't know, shitslav.
I type only elegance.

>>50465898

God dammit. No. Tyranids are not "the lesser evil," they are an alternative.

Chaos is unending torment for us. Tyranids are total annihilation, before they move on because we weren't even fucking important enough to torture.

Shit.

>>50465879
I'm honestly in awe of how much of an idiot one person can be.

But agreed, this is stupid to continue.

>>50465948
This.

Why can't a setting have multiple big bads?

>>50465879

Who's Carnac? Google gave me nothing.

>>50465942
Fuck off to /pol/, chaoswanker.

>>50465948
>God dammit. No. Tyranids are not "the lesser evil,"

They are.
The sooner you can accept this the sooner you will know peace.
There is nothing wrong with being a side show villain. Side show villains can be great, this is why I used Jabba the Hutt. He is a big figure in Star Wars despite being a side show villain.

>>50465941
What do you mean 'the balance of the galaxy'? Blowing up stars does not threaten any 'balance'.

Additionally Perfect Time Travel being personal doesn't mean anything. It means Orikan should, if he used Time Travel the way he is stated to be able to, travel back and time and, for example, prevent the original deal with the C'tan, prevent the existence of humans, prevent anything he wants.

Yes, cite them, cause right now I think you're literally just making that up.

Also, no, you've still offered no proof of the material forces of Chaos having any power, you've simply ranted about Daemons and Gods.

>>50465897
>Also which realities did Archaon blow up? Can you name them?

Nopem the lore just says universes and realitis were blown up while the Age of Myth was going on. Everchosen gives some examples of the races alien races Archaon fought.

>Also I don't remember Archaon even fighting the whole Pantheon.

Battle of Burning Skies.

>Not to mention if I recall all his armies in the Realms of Light and Shadow mysteriously dissappeared and his army and main fort in the Beast Realm gets repeatedly Curb-Stomped by Orruks.

The races of the Realms were encouraged to revolt after the Storm of Sigmar began.

>Not to mention the Ironjawz apparently thriving.

It doesn't matter. Because Sigmar invaded, Archaon was this close to plunging the Realms into eternal Chaos.

>Seriously Chaos screwed up big time when they ended the Fantasy World. They put themselves in a worse spot now than they've ever been before.

Not really. Chaos is still dominate in the realms despite some defeats and Archaoin has returned and he is destined to destroy Sigmar.

>None of the other Chaos Gods even take the Horned Rat seriously, neither does Archaon, so what's the point of even mentioning him?

The Horned Rat is making plans for his next ascendancy. Don't underestimate him.

>>50465879
I haven't seen Carnac in quite some time.

>>50465706
Because arguing with chaosfags as bad as you is like arguing with a child: utterly unfulfilling.

>>50465941
Dude stars go supernova, there is no 'celestial balance' of stars in a galaxy. What are you talking about? The Celestial Orrey means Necrons can never lose. They could nuke Terra, Tau, the Craftworlds, the worlds in the Eye of Terror, Armageddon all of it. And the Galaxy is HUGE. Even blowing up that many stars won't cause much collateral damage on a a galactic scale.

>>50465984

Did you just not read the rest of the post?

>>50466012
He's trolling us. Just let him be. Let this thread become an echo chamber of his own ramblings. Let's just move on.

>>50466012
I did, it didn't change anything.
Your extra sentence doesn't warp reality to make the Tyranids the apex villain rather than a sideshow villain.

>>50465989
Name the realities, if they don't have any names then they don't even matter in the narrative. That's like a Marine being proud cause in some book they killed the unamed who-the-fucks of hobokin, it means nothing.

I'm very sure All-Gates literally says that the Chaos Armies which entered Shadow and Light disappeared and Archaon has no idea what's happening in the.

Also, the Orruks are literally regularly destroying Archaon's mainbase in Beast Realm. That doesn't sound very dominate.

>>50465909
>Yeah, the Eldar prevented the Nids from winning, doesn't change that your argument of Chaos always wins was invalid since if the Eldar hadn't taken their actions then the Nids and Crons would have won.

No, sweetcheeks, it says that Chaos will win and depart the galaxy. Tyranids will come to clean up the rest.

And then Necrons will rule a dead galaxy. This is why I told you you didn't read it.

Also the whole thing goes against what will happen in >>50463087. Chaos will leave nothing behind for the Tyranids. So the skein is wrong.

>Besides, if we're going by that. then we should remember that before he 'dies' the Farseer briefly sees 'the whole skein' and we're told his soul 'sparks with joy'.

That's another thread in which he sees the Eldar race reborn. Of course, that's wrong as well considering that Eldrad botched Ynnead.

>>50465984
No, you know what Chaos wanker? Here's a Star Wars metaphor.

Xenos are the Empire, a villain group that is widely liked and considered cool. People find them neat and interesting, sometimes more so than the good guys. They have many fans.

Modern day Chaos are the EU mandalorians. They get treated like hot shit because a select few authors like to mastirbate all over to then, while most people find them annoying that this random group gets to be the best of the best because of stupid reasons. Their fans are stupidly diehard and 100% no-fun-allowed.

ADB is just neo Karen Traviss.

>>50466033
>anon wants to have some form of anything APPROACHING balance rather than one faction being complete sues
>"bwaaaaaaah ur faction cant be the apex villain faggot"
what even is an ensemble cast

>ah yes describe everyone else as "sideshows", compare them to a small crime lord that was honestly little more than comic relief in SW
>this totally isn't showing my bias against everyone else

>>50466011
>>50465986
>What do you mean 'the balance of the galaxy'? Blowing up stars does not threaten any 'balance'.

Read the Celestial Orrey lore.

>Additionally Perfect Time Travel being personal doesn't mean anything. It means Orikan should, if he used Time Travel the way he is stated to be able to, travel back and time and, for example, prevent the original deal with the C'tan, prevent the existence of humans, prevent anything he wants.


And his lore shows he doesn't want to. Orikan according to his lore has a 60 million year old plan to ensure his asendancy over all.

Again. you and the lore are not friends.

>Yes, cite them, cause right now I think you're literally just making that up.

Necron codex. Imotekh's entry.

>Also, no, you've still offered no proof of the material forces of Chaos having any power, you've simply ranted about Daemons and Gods.

Night Lord omnibus.

Abaddon's forces dwarf anything Horus ever commanded.

>>50465998
Maybe if you haven't been on /tg/ in quite some time.

>>50466035
>Name the realities, if they don't have any names then they don't even matter in the narrative. That's like a Marine being proud cause in some book they killed the unamed who-the-fucks of hobokin, it means nothing.

They matter in showing how far Archaon was gone and how powerful he became his blowing a single world.

>I'm very sure All-Gates literally says that the Chaos Armies which entered Shadow and Light disappeared and Archaon has no idea what's happening in the.

Same with Sigmar's forces. It just means that there are fighting inside the two Realms but nobody outside can see anything. Remember that the All Gate of Shadow and All Gate of Light remain active in Varanspire. This means the All Gates there are still in Chaos's control.

>Also, the Orruks are literally regularly destroying Archaon's mainbase in Beast Realm. That doesn't sound very dominate.

It's not the main base. It's just a single fortress. If anything the main base is the All Gate there.

File: The Greatest Threat.png (43KB, 809x263px)

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>>50466052
>No

Yes.

>>50466067
>>ah yes describe everyone else as "sideshows"

This term was used in the Harlequin codex. I merely repeat it.

>compare them to a small crime lord

I'd say Jabba was easily the second biggest villain in the movies.

>>50466110
And I didn't miss that autist ass we call Carnac at all

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>>50466011
>Dude stars go supernova, there is no 'celestial balance' of stars in a galaxy.
>>What do you mean 'the balance of the galaxy'? Blowing up stars does not threaten any 'balance'.

SPOONFEEDING TIME. Look that these charming toddlers.

Picture related. What does it say?

>>50466192

A bunch of stupid bullshit that hasn't been repeated once, and is thus meaningless.

>>50466200
I agree the Celestal Orrey is stupid and pointless and hasn't been mentioned once since it appeared in 5th ED codex.

But do you something that's not stupid? The Smoking Mirror and the Starflame.

File: st_celestine_by_reirobin-d7q21j9.jpg (141KB, 723x1105px)

141KB, 723x1105px

Am I relevant yet?

>>50466259
your army is a meme

>>50466259
No, you are dead. Pls go.

>>50466192
It says GW is terrible at science as usual. We have rogue planets without stars and stars in the intergalactic space, yet there is some super important balance of bright dots in huge disc around huge black hole we call the Milky Way.

So Chaos is Mewtwo and Tyranids is a Pidgy.

>>50466265
Chaos is a meme. SoB are pitiable

>>50466259
You and your sisters are always welcome as jobbers

>>50466243

Googling "Smoking Mirror 40k" brings up a guy who's making a DoW mod and "Starflame 40k" brings up a Necron who's Starfalme thing was almost entirely destroyed and is only cited in a campaign supplement.

How earth-shattering.

>>50466269
But Celestine is alive, tho

>>50466273
>It says GW is terrible at science as usual.

It's super science, meant to be far beyond our current understanding.
Necrons found a cosmic balance that humanity are ignorant of.

>>50466273
If the Celestial Orrey functions the same way as the "Breath of Gods (another Necron galaxy control tool), then it siphons cosmic energy from the hearts of the stars from the future and the past. This shortens the lives of stars in the past and/or future. This level of temporal manipulation requires a lot of careful management because the lunatic Admech in the Admech novel series caused a chain reaction that nearly wiped the whole galaxy from the space time continuum.

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>>50466265
>>50466269
>>50466288
To be a Living Saint is to suffer. To play SoB is to suffer.

I wish I mattered.

>>50454726
Seconded. Unless it's a flying circus my Necrons will just steamroll them. Kill the little ones at range with the Legion, and murder the fuck out of the big ones with the Harvest and Court. It's not even a challenge. Maybe my local players are just bad.

>>50466296
Ohhh....I just remembered she just gave up her powers to kill...what was it? A dreadnought?

>>50466342
She didn't give up her powers to kill anything. She straight up killed a daemon prince and burned his army.

>>50466363
No no no. I remember a battle she had alongside the salamanders. She gave up her power in order to make an opening for the Salamanders to finish off the Dreadnought or whatever it was.

>>50466388
That wasn't Celestine then. Celestine fought in the Palatine crusades. She was "killed" when a.heretic set his base to go nuclear, obliterating both armies.

Then she showed up again unexpectedly a few centuries later to skewer a daemon prince and single-handedly turn the tide of battle to the Imperium's favor.

>>50466388
That was a different living saint.

>>50465948
Agreed, If anything orks are more side villain, theyre the constant thorn in the side, Nids, Crons and Chaos are the big 3.

>>50466791
And this is how it should be. Why can't Chaoswankers accept being one among the three apocalyptic races? Why do they HAVE to be the best? Because their codex and books told them so? Everyone's books call them the best.

>>50466812
Because along with the Orks, Chaos are and always have been the main villains of 40K.

>>50466791
>Agreed, If anything orks are more side villain

Orks are also a sideshow villain, but one of many.
There is only one apex villain and it's Chaos.

>>50466812
>Why can't Chaoswankers accept being one among the three apocalyptic races? Why do they HAVE to be the best?

It's simply a fact that Chaos are the strongest.
This is repeated in the main rule book, neutral territory, and in novels as well as their own specific codexes. Even in some other faction's codexes are they portrayed as top dogs.

>>50466927
Fuck off Carnac.

>>50466936
Stop feeding him

>>50466957
Ive had two posts before this one, in this thread. Both say the same thing.

>>50466936
>>50466957
>>50466981
Just admit that I'm right.
Come to terms with sideshowhood.
Sideshows are not bad, they exist for a reason.

>>50466812
'nids and 'crons are newer than chaos so chaos will always be the main baddie, even if 'nids and 'crons are big.

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I just want to be relevant. It doesn't need to be a lot relevant. Just a little. A bone thrown my way every now and then, y'know?

>>50466994

I'm half convinced you're ADB, trying to honestly convince us that Chaos is the best.

>>50466957

It doesn't matter if he's jacking off over acting retarded over 4Chan, all that matters is making sure newfags and lurkers don't think he's right.

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>>50467115
i'll give you a bone alright baby...

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>>50466994
>My opinion is better than your opinion, admit that I'm right!

This is gonna go on forever... holy shit, this thread is Warhammer 40k! We've entered a state of perpetual warfare!

>>50467140
Funny, but in all seriousness you know what I mean.

>>50467118
>It doesn't matter if he's jacking off over acting retarded over 4Chan, all that matters is making sure newfags and lurkers don't think he's right.

How? You cited nothing but your feels. like literally no fluff backing you up or anything.

For example see the space scientists over here >>50466192 making retarded statements like "Stars blowing up doesn't affect the galaxy guise". If I hadn't dragged the lore from the codexes and spoonfed them like the invalids they are they would have kept at it.

Just the other day there was someone who thought that Necrodermis wasn't Living Metal. Imagine that. Freaking hell.

>>50467149
Not him but it's not opinion if it's backed by lore.

>>50467172
You already know you've essentially been forgotten though. If you get lucky and we actually go to the end times and GW wanna squeeze as much fucking money out as possible you'll get a revamp.

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>>50466812
Chaos was in the 40k intro before it was even in 40k. Chaos and the Imperium are central to the setting, Tyranids and Necrons are not. There's a difference between simply acknowledging that and doing what Carnac does.

>>50467118
>I'm half convinced you're ADB

I despise ADB.

>>50467149
It's not my opinion, I just share the fluff and try to illuminate you.
Chaos is not my favourite faction, and yet I have no problem admitting that they are the most powerful.

>>50467210
>you've already been forgotten
*sigh*
I know. But a girl can dream, anon. A girl can dream.

>>50467214
Okay i'll bite
What's your faction.

>>50467211
Anon, I know you're old, but the setting has expanded since that was published

>>50467240
I enjoy Space Marines and Eldar.

>>50467283
>>50467240
Also picked up a few Skitarii.

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>>50467214
>illuminate you
I own the CSM codex and the Daemon codex. I know the fluff. I just think Chaos is goddamn boring as the eventual destroyer, and that the recent GW fluff regarding them is terrible.

I was content where things were in 5th edition, where each faction was on the verge of their own victory and it was up to the players to decide who they think should win. 40k is a setting that allows you to make your own story, and this End Times bullshit just feels anathema to that. System spanning war stories feel boring compared to the smaller focus ones. Hearing how an Imperial Guard regiment held to the last against a Tyranid fleet is a much more compelling tale than "Abbadon got his infinity+1 murder sword and is the bestest"

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>>50467264
In some ways.

>>50467340
yeah but nobody cares about abbadon, he's not even a primarch and 2d as shit. I personally like chaos because I wanna see what the daemon primarchs get up to nowadays now that they're coming back. Like Magnus, resigned to being a pawn of fate, how will he act when vengeance is all he has left.

>>50467368
Yeah well, it also says in the fluff for both the Tyranids and the Necrons that if all the other races don't unite against them, they will win. That's about the same as your stuff saying Chaos is the ultimate threat.

Like said previously, everyone's codex calls them the best.

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>>50467340
>I was content where things were in 5th edition

Where Chaos was the most powerful?