/CofD/ &/wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness

>>50444886
>Would Time patterning or Time unmaking be appropriate for a spell that turns instant actions for the duration?

Reposting for new thread.

For the anon who was helping out with mage, thanks for the info

Important announcement in that MMN: Secrets of the Covenants and Hurt Locker are out next Wednesday.

>>50445556
I will believe it when I see it.

Does anyone have the M20 pdf?

>>50444991
>Do you allow abominations in your game?

Do Beast: The primordial count? Not the splat, the game.

>>50444627
>>50444649
Well, you wouldn't do it every day, since it takes longer to heal than one day. This is why blood dolls tend to come in groups.

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>>50445953
>Twins

>>50445919
>M20 pdf

https://www.sendspace.com/file/i0wsix

Man why the fuck has it taken so fucking Mummy so long to get it's second city book out that the rest of it's line is done, all of demon is done and the big 3 are out with one of them even having a supplement. Though that still brings up the hilliarity of Vampire having zero real supplements out yet for 2 e.

>>50448097
One is coming for Vampire though. After just... What? Three years?

How can they expect a system to live with 0 updates for so long?
If it wasn't for the tribal loyalty of the fans OPP would be dead and forgotten. If any other company treated their fans with this disdain, they would be shunned and forgotten, and rightfully so.

Maybe i'm better off asking in this thread. So, i am about to run the VtM game for the first time in my life and IRL at that and i need some clarification that is not readily available:
1. Vampires described as struggling for feeding grounds, where neonate should feed if they have no domain? What happens if they feed in someone else's domain? Do they automatically recieve some grounds, when they become neonates? Is there some common feeding grounds that are free for all? I'm talking about Camarilla, ofcourse.
2. How exactly do trades happen? What can newly fledged vampire offer to the lords of the city? Surely it's not (only) money, when they are readily available basically to every Cainite? If it's a favours they have to repay afterwards, what stops them from not doing so, from hiding or fleeing city?
3. How do vampires travel? Is there some trafficking network of ghouls and revenants ran by clans, that allow them to travel safely? Or are they basically bound to the city they were embraced in?
I'll post more questions, if they arise, and if you're willing to help the brother out here.

>>50448279
They where more focused on getting all the lines up as quick as possible so their brand had a strong foundation to stand on again, I guess.

Honestly I doubt it's disdain and more misguided goals or incompetence

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>>50448309
Also:
4. The Tradition explicitely says that you should not slay your kin, but what if say young and daring vampires decide that they want to run a joint already held by some other vampire and they fail to come to understanding with the owner. Is he allowed to kill them? Should he ask someone first? Are they allowed to kill owner? And basically, what are the Rules of Engagement when comes to the other Kindred?

>>50448309
1. Stray dogs are perfectly fine unless you are of the fancy clan Ventrue. Also, they don't get shit unless they buy it during the chargen. Make them suffer form poverty if they spend all their background points on generation or some bullcrap.

2. The elders have far reach via allies and servants. Pissing off one is unadvisable. Even if said elder doesn't really give a fuck, he can't let it slide because that woudl make hum look like a pussy in the eyes of the other elders.

3. By being creative, duh. Less creative players should pick the right disciplines. Protean 3 is very usefull, vicissitude offers and interesting solution to physically small cainites...

>>50448340
Kin probably relates to, you know, your sire/grandsire/great grandsire and not at all to your childe.

>>50448340
>what if say young and daring vampires decide that they want to run a joint already held by some other vampire and they fail to come to understanding with the owner. Is he allowed to kill them?

Some higher up is going to inherit it and grant it to a ghoul vassal or something. They probably end up being punished if found guilty. Only independent vampires are a fair game, but they tend to be rare and ancient.

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>>50448309
1) The common hunting grounds is called The Rack, and it usually incorporates the city's nightlife district. Outside of that, different areas are held by different vampires.

2) If I do X for you, you can establish an alibi and pretend you knew nothing. This is what the young do for the old - carry out old vendettas, run errands, risk their necks while elders stay cosy in their havens. Long lists of "prestation" - favours owed - are prattled off by Harpies in the local Elysium. Word spreads from town to town, especially through Nosferatu, so if someone doesn't keep their promises soon everyone knows.
3) Travel between cities is difficult and dangerous. VtM games typically have a higher rate of werewolves in wild spaces than the average WtA game. The cities should feel like a gilded cage.

4) This is where the letter of the law comes into it and not the spirit. It is permissible to punch someone into torpor, stake them and then keep them prisoner, as long as you are willing to put up with repercussions and an eternal enemy. The ability to kill is usually reserved by the Prince and their agents, leveraged as a boon perhaps, or invoked after the players do a sterling frame-up.

>>50448526
Thanks for the elaborate and logical answers, mate.
Now if you or anyone else can judge my outline for the story i planned, that would be of great help too.
I plan to recruit fresh neonates in London to avert the incoming crisis, they will be sent to local authority (Harpy, Sheriff, i dunno) and asked to deal with the mortal named say Julio Massage, who got his hands on a large quantity of information that, if revealed, threatens Masquerade across the whole world and would surely bring the second rise of Inquisition and Dark Times. The problem is, said person is hiding in Venezuella embassy and is guarded by the Order of Leopold, and to boot set up several Dead Man's Switches that will make information available to the whole interwebs in case said mortal dies or dissapears. So the first thing they should do is to find people trusted with the location of encrypted archives, make them dissapear or delete said archives and get rid of anyone who might know about the contents. It all happens in a rush, because the Justicar should come into town in the near future and everyone involved in the breach of security will probably go belly up, and the persons responsible want to hide that from Justicar. Ofcourse it's a Prince and his agents, they don't want to be associated with the threat at all, neither do they want all their dirty secrets to get available to public, so they hire neonates of whom plan to get rid, after the job is done.
Sabbat involves somewhere along the lines, advising neonates to keep the info once they get it and pass it onto Sabbat. Sabbat doesn't plan to release the info, but they want to present Justicar with enough means to shake a current vertical of power, so they could use it in order to take headless city over.
Woah.. that's a lot of text. Do i make any sense?

>>50445035
>Would Time patterning or Time unmaking be appropriate for a spell that turns instant actions for the duration?
That question doesn't make sense, turns into what? Or turns off?

>>50445556
Wow if this actually happens, we might even someday see HL3.

>>50448526
>Travel between cities is difficult and dangerous. VtM games typically have a higher rate of werewolves in wild spaces than the average WtA game. The cities should feel like a gilded cage.
I was never into VtM and this is one of things I don't understand That difficulty travelling part, even in VtR but to lesser degree. I understand vampires don't like flying coffins, but what's a problem with getting in car and travelling this way? On highway you can easily do 75 miles a hour so even if you take your time, you can easily get from NY to SF in under a week hassle free.

Did DaveB mention what Mage supplements, if any, are scheduled after Signs of Sorcery, or when SoS will be released? In the Monday Meeting Notes, SoS has been languishing in "Development" forever, and no other Mage supplements are listed.

>>50448949
Afaik no dates are known, but next supplement afer SoS should be Tome of the Pentacle.
source: https://www.reddit.com/r/WhiteWolfRPG/comments/5e6p9n/what_books_other_than_core_are_part_of_mtaw_2nd_ed/dac65nt/?st=iw3i4rq3&sh=930f1184

>only 15 generations of vampires, and the 15th generation is a recent thing
Do vampires only sire when they're a few hundred years old or something?

>>50448279

Someone doesn't know about Palladium Games.

>>50449084

Vampire populations are strictly controlled. This is usually accomplished by requiring permission to sire from the local Prince or other ruling power figure. Younger, less powerful and higher generation vampires rarely have the political cache to obtain such permission. Also, the mortality rate of younger vampires is often high as they're embraced for little more than cannon fodder in sectarian conflicts.

>>50449260
Err.. and 15th gen () can't Embrace if i'm not mistaken.. if they try they left only with a dead body on their hands, and not a vampire.

>>50449084
I would imagine that usually throughout history powerful Vampires have controlled the rate of the creation of Vampire creation by killing those they didn't like, such as those created without permission.

If only because they want to postpone "the time of the thin blood" when they all die, for as long as possible.

>>50448949
SoS has been in Development because Awakening's errata and then Deviant have had priority over it. It'll still be out way closer to Mage than The Pack or Secrets of the Covenants were.

Next book is Tome of the Pentacle. One more approved after that, which remains unannounced.

>>50445035
Assuming you mean "into reflexive ones" as per previous thread... No. Well, you can do it if you like in your game, but be warned that it will snap the Storytelling system like a twig. Multiple Actions - just say no.

>>50449390

Thanks, Dave.

Now that the Mage errata is complete and the final book released, do you have a vague idea when SoS will be out? Christmas 2016 is obviously not realistic, but is Winter 2017 still a possibility?

>>50449390

Anything you can tell us about the cool people working on Deviant that won't break NDA?

>>50449390
>Next book is Tome of the Pentacle. One more approved after that, which remains unannounced

Any hints about the third Mage supplement or maybe some new Signs of Sorcery spoilers?

>>50449390
To be fair Dave, in Secrets of the Covenants case, that's not a high bar to clear at all.

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>>50448309
>VtM

>>50449390
Can you give us more details on Deviant?

>>50449779
>animoo

pleb

>>50450510
So Changeling the lost 2e has moved into editing according to the Monday meeting blurb. Anyone have a clue how long the editing process goes for OPP. Or should I just assume it's like valve time

Any fluff reason why you couldn't have a spell that functions like 'Devouring the Slain' except for Spirit?

You wouldn't be able to use it on people of course. But chowing down on lesser spirits for mana/essence/willpower seems to be in theme for the arcana.

>>50450651

It all depends on who is editing the project.

>>50448526
>VtM games typically have a higher rate of werewolves in wild spaces than the average WtA game.

I always found that retarded.

>>50451599
Crossovers are fun.

>>50450749
So valve time then, got it.

>>50450749
And the quality of the draft they were given.

Plus remember this isn't even the cutting room floor step. I discovered this during Exalted's development cycle. Once it moves into layout the person laying it out will ask them to start Cutting down the text to they always right MORE than what's needed. The stuff that gets get can always be put into other books if it is worth saving like Kiths, Contracts, ect.

Yes your are on the bright side of the tunnel but this is going to be murky time table wise.

>>50452460
This step is mostly checking for spelling errors, making sure formatting conventions for things like Italics and bold are followed and the grammar is functional.

>>50452462

Oh god imagine what the draft of M20 would have been. 500+ pages of buccatto complaining about muh capitalism.

>>50453320
About why capitalism is good? Or how it isn't bad.

>>50453448

It's Brucato, so he's probably got a dim view on it like anything that's not either neopagan sentimentality or hardcore techno-fetishism.

>>50450713
You already have that.
It's called Channel Essence, and it can be used on unwilling Spirits.

>>50453448
Capitalism is bad.
Find someone with a black and red star avatar and ask them why.

>>50454613
Yeah, not saying Capitalism is the greatest thing ever, but it works very well. While there is benefit to turning over some infrastructure to the government societies work best when governments fear the people not people the government. That is unique to capitalism. The moment you cross into socialism or communism the government controls more and more and people become addicted to the hand outs and fear them being discontinued.

>>50454854
>people become addicted to the hand outs
Literally a point refuted a thousand times.

There are so many problems with your post that I'm not going to get into in a WoD thread. Just find an Anarcho-Syndicalist, Libertarian Socialist, or Communist on Youtube and they'll explain it.

I'm trying to get a hang on Forsaken 2e but the continuous use of werewolf speak is getting tedious.

>>50455513
You get used to it after a while. The jargon is always the hardest part of any RPG.

So I'm trying to devise a mantle for a changeling court. The prime elements of the court are that we collect "taxes" i.e. protection money, we protect trade in the area, and we dish out justice on behalf of the Freehold as the Freehold's law enforcement.

We are called the Constabulary Court.
...So umm...any advice on how to build this thing?

>>50455633
I'm thinking at 1 dot
+1 Investigate because constables do that, so do Sherifs.
At 3 dots maybe 9 again to intimidation checks to Interrogate.
It's that 5th dot that is hanging me up. I'm not sure what to do with that one. Or if I am doing this wrong.

>>50455513
Learn to love it. The Uratha speak like that. The lingo's part of getting in the mood.

>>50455513
Yeah. That was my first big problem with Mummy. At least Werewolf has translations.

>>50448892
Vampire was designed by and for americans and that's easy to spot. Between New York and San Francisco there's a lot of wilderness and that's home of the garou. It's just dangerous and most vampires prefer not to risk their lifes. It's not like it doesn't ever happen, the lore is full of travelling vampires, you even have european medieval vampires living in the americas.

This would be a non-issue in almost any european country, where there's plenty of wild nature but cities are closer to each other.

>>50449084
For most of vampiric history, human populations were so small that too big amounts of vampires would've collapsed vampiric society. This means population control is required (even more than in masquerade). And of course the most powerful (read old) vampires are more likely to be the ones allowed to embrace if they desire to.

>>50448892
>>50456695
It's to demonstrate the anxiety all basement dwellers feel when they have to travel out amongst the normies

So, I have this idea regarding a few Devotions, could you please explain why they are bad ideas:

Immortal Shape of the Wraith
(Protean •••••, Celerity •••)
For a moment, the vampire is no more substantial than mist, causing attacks to pass through her harmlessly.
Cost: 3 Vitae
Dice Pool: None
Action: Reflexive
This Devotion allows a Vampire to become completely immune to one attack, as instead of hitting a solid body, it strikes through a body as substantial as mist. No matter what type of damage is delivered, it deals none, unless the source is from a Bane, in which case it deals normal damage.
This Devotion also allows a Vampire to slip out of a Grapple, as there is no longer any body to hold onto.
This Devotion costs 4 Experiences to learn.

Basically, a cheaper, one-attack-only Juggernaut's Gait, with the small benefit that she can't be knocked down, grappled, or driven over an edge by being rammed with a car.

Cont...

>>50456943


Body of Whispers
(Auspex •••••, Protean •••)
Normally, a vampire projecting her mind elsewhere, leaves her body dangerously vulnerable. With this Devotion, that is somewhat alleviated by bringing it with her where she goes.
Cost: 3 Vitae
Roll: Intelligence + Occult + Auspex
Action: Instant
Dramatic Failure: The Vampire becomes trapped in a half-ephemeral state, parts of her body shifting in and out of Twilight. She suffers the Stunned Tilt for a number of turns equal to 15 minus her Stamina. During this time both material and Twilight creatures may freely interact with her.
Failure: Her body stays rigidly solid.
Success: For a scene, the vampire's body shifts into Twilight, becoming immaterial. During this time the vampire can walk through physical obstacles, and even sink into the ground if she wishes, otherwise she moves just as normal. While in this state, she can not interact with the physical world in any way, though her Disciplines work just the same as normal.
When this Devotion ends, the kindred simply slips back into the world where she happens to be at the moment. If she is inside an object, she will safely appear outside it.
She may end this Devotion at any time she wishes.
Exceptional Success: Her body submits further to the rule of the mind, her Speed is multiplied by her Auspex dots, and she is no longer limited to obeying gravity.
This Devotion costs 4 Experiences to learn.

I wanted an infiltration power. Applying the Twilight Projection to Beast's Skin felt like the most logical step. It is more limited however, one can't stay in this shape forever, and one is much slower. Even with the Exceptional effect the Vampire lacks a lot of the mobility of this shape.
The secondary benefit of this power is that one can chase away pesky spies using the normal Twilight Projection, provided one can catch them.

>>50456954
Besides these, I also had an idea for two Celerity-based Devotions.
One that simply increased your speed and initiative by your Celerity dots for a scene. (Celerity + Resilience), and one pure Celerity devotion that allows the user to speed up extended actions, based on part of the Acceleration spell in Mage.
Though I haven't decided exact dot rankings for those yet.

>>50456829
I hate the word "normies" and I don't know why

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Anne Rice's new book is out.
It's about Vampires and Atlantis.
The cover color accent is Awakening blue.
Hrrrrrrrrrm....

So I'm writing up some content for a Hunter game I'm gonna be running tomorrow and I want some music to help keep my juices flowing and potentially to play during the game.

The opener is going to be with two of the players being wannabe "ghostbusters", one of them being a homeless squatter, and the last one being a cop called in to investigate the trespassing. I'm thinking the house they're in could have ghouls locked in the basement or something that the two ghost hunters accidentally let out (they're gonna have an npc friend that I will have get nabbed by the ghouls to keep them from just leaving the house.)

Anyone got any good music to get me into that kind of low-leveled Hunter mindset?

>>50457024
As long as she leaves out wizards I'm fine with it.

That said, White Wolf might pounce on her, and try to bleed money out of her. They are going to be in competition regarding vampire tv series soon.

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>>50457102
>White Wolf pounce on Anne Rice for similarities

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

>>50457149
I didn't say they were reasonable. But you know how companies are.

>>50457203
Considering one of the things listed in the 'inspirations' section of Masquerade and the largest bits of it can be tracked to Rice, they wouldn't dare.

>>50457016
If implies you are not and will never be normal. And that produces a feeling of anxiety of being rejected and divorced from people. when the fact of the matter is those feeling are completely normal. and everyone feels that from time to time

>>50457203
They can't be that stupid. They've cited Anne Rice as inspiration for Masquerade. If they tried to go after her she'd be able to destroy them.

>>50457234
Can you really look at Dracula and say that he can't possibly be that stupid?

I rest my fucking case.

>>50457259
>fashion dictates action

>>50457102
What? Since when was White Wolf getting a new Vampire TV show. I mean Kindred was entertaining and all but...seriously...since when?

>>50457274
Fine, Can you really look at how Dracula has spoken and acted, and say that he can't be that stupid?

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>>50457305
They have lofty goals for a VtM TV series on Netflix by 2020.

>>50457307
Anon you're not even trying

There is literally an actual court document of ww trying to sue sony over underworld.

HISTORY over anecdotes Anon seriously

>>50457375
Well best I can do is Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underworld_(2003_film)#Legal_controversy

I dont have access to Lexus Nexus at the moment.

So. Is it a stupid idea to invent a Requiem Bloodline who can buy Strix powers?

>>50458060
How much do you like to keep living? That is a bloodline who is likely to have everyone eyeing them in suspicion.

>>50458239
Oh please. I bet it is quite possible to keep this additional curse a secret...

Yes... This will be great.

>>50458340
-Bane:: detachment is penalized by Blood Potency.
-Embracing is no longer a breaking point

Stylize them as Evil Nuns and Priests. Evil religious analogies.

"Hail Mary full of spite, let me dine on blood tonight. "

>>50448097

Vampire has delays because its developer had to take over running a decent chunk of the company, a problem they've noticed, rectified with a new hire, and the new book should be out in two weeks.

>>50458443
>-Bane:: detachment is penalized by Blood Potency.

Nah. That means that everyone above BP 5 is a guaranteed draug, since they can't succeed on detachment.

>>50458504
The strix wants to punish vampires and force them into horrible monsters. Making a deal with the devil should fuck you dearly

>>50458556
I wasn't thinking about a bloodline who dealt with the Strix to have their powers, I was more thinking an old-ass one, from ages back, before the clans were truly formed, from when there were less difference between strix and vampires.

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>get invited to monday night VtM larp by friends, a game where you hang out in-character at a 40-person event of various clans from around the state and drink heavily
>everyone has a great time, lots of events unfolding, lots of political backstabbing for position/power/mischief, which my friends had told me is like 90% of the point and purpose of playing at these events
>now all my female friends are ooc furious at each other and not talking anymore because of their characters
I suddenly don't fucking understand anything

>>50458577
Yeah, that might work. I'd do it as a corrupted Julii remnant, if it was me? Not a Faustian arrangement, but an added curse on the survivors after they didn't honor their deal with the Strix in Rome. Victims of the Strix, but other Kindred don't trust them or know that.

>>50458637
Yeah, either that or some Mekhet bloodline connected to the primal dark, or something.

>>50458577
>Our vampires are different from yours/ elder masterrace vampires

Thats tried and tired trope. It doesn't bring anything to the game that isn't already there. Vampires are already Ancient old evils.

Now the idea of using the Strix as Djinn has a lot more potential and divorces itself from a perhistorical (and very antediluvian feeling) requirement.

There is nothing in the Strix powerbase that specifically needs a strix to emulate. You can use a custom discipline / devotions.

but hey your game. not my monkey not my problem

>>50458716
What are you talking about?

I'm talking about a throwback bloodline to ages past. Not necessarily super-old vampires. They would have access to the Dread Powers of the Strix, and that's not really that powerful. I mean, not compared to the powers of the Kerberoi or Khaibit.

>>50458783
vampires are already an extension/continuation/result of strix.
Making a bloodline off of them is simply redundant.

If you want to make a throw back bloodline. Look at old mythology. Think of bloodlines as photographs / flashpoints of vampire society. And how one vampire had taken something from mortals and persevered it into the modern nights.

Bloodlines based on myths and folklore are rich in flavor. Like the Wannabe Daeva Mecket were a reflect on the goth wannabe vamps of the 90s. And then there is the Siberian Nos whos bane is all about the frozen corpse on the mountain trail. The Kerberoi and Khaibit were based on Greak and Egpytian myths respectively. And it made sense. Because vamps would use those traps. maybe influencing or were influences by those mortal beliefs

>>50458917
>vampires are already an extension/continuation/result of strix.
>Making a bloodline off of them is simply redundant.

No. It's not. It is continuing to build on that theme.

>>50458917

I have a Bloodline of really ancient Egyptian vampires who believe Sekhmet was the first vampire. They only Embrace women (and even then very rarely), and there's only a small handful of them who are all pretty old.

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>>50458958
Please Tell me their nickname is The Lioness

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>>50457024
I thought she became a Christian and put aside all that Devil work?

>>50457102
>>50457149
>>50457227
>>50457234
>>50457375
The majority of things listed in the Underworld lawsuit aren't really even the creative insight of White Wolf to begin with. I also wouldn't really be surprised if they tried going after Vampire Diaries or Teen Wolf. There was that one talk he gave where Dracula said they'd be cracking down on "people a little too inspired" by WoD, and my first thoughts were Dresden Files. I basically expected a rehash of the Underworld lawsuit, except that on anyone possible. It's one of the earliest reasons I disliked Dracula.

>>50458060
What's the point of being able to buy Dread Powers like a Strix?

>>50448652
Ok, first off you're going to need to warn the players to investigate before they attack. This is like a heist movie. If you want to do the prop they do from films with the pinboard (blueprints, photos, names etc.) they'll really groove to it.

Allow Contacts and Influence rolls, a lot of shady backalley meetings and "business dinners", make the fact there are backup servers the FIRST thing they find out, but the locations one of the LAST. A ticking clock is fine, but don't make it too short or you won't be able to cover the travel times to and from the servers. During this period the players get approached by a shadowy "Deep Throat" style character that throws them a bone - some useful lead or clue. If they cosy up to Deep Throat, lead them on a bit before they get asked "tell me, what do you really think about the Camarilla?" - seduce them, draw them over to the Sabbat without mentioning their name.

The Justicar arrival is the deadline. Every game start with "X nights until the Justicar arrives..."

Last thought, if these neonates were handpicked and embraced for the job, they'd probably have anti-terror, intelligence or police backgrounds, wouldn't they?

>>50448892
>what's a problem with getting in car and travelling this way?

If the cities are close to each other? Nothing at all. Problems start when you have to make a stop-off for the day. Better hope you have Meld Earth, what else you got? Sleep in the boot like Detective Knight and hope nobody jacks your car? Stay in a motel? What happens if the local Lupines smell you out while you sleep, sucker?

>>50458917
I've been thinking of a Bloodline based on the children of Polyphonte.

She didn't want to get married, so she ran off to the forest and this pissed off Aphrodite, who made her have the hots for a bear. Shagging a bear pissed off Artemis, who turned all the animals against her.
Polyphonte gave birth to Agrius and Oreius, two bear children who became wild men that lived in the woods as crazy cannibals, hated by everyone. Ares saved them from being dismembered by Hermes, and the Gods turned the family into birds instead.

Oreius became the eagle owl, a symbol of misfortune.
Agrius became a flesh eating vulture and the symbol of Ares.
For some fucking reason their servant became a woodpecker, but became a good omen to huners.

And Polyphonte became a tiny owl that shrieks in the night, known as the strix.

>>50459200
>What's the point of being able to buy Dread Powers like a Strix?

It is a cool gimmick.

How come the Mega doesn't have V20 stuff?

Can somebody link me DAV20 and the V20 Book of Secrets, if they have it? Thanks in advance.

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>>50459322
You know if I didn't already know this was Greek Gods being dicks, I'd be calling furry on this.

Feels like a new take on the old Sins of the father visiting the son. but you know mother instead of father. Pretty heavy pagan themes. And the myth is generally a telling in how the society viewed womens' choice or lack of choice in partners.

You could go with a twisted renewed dedication of fulfilling a woman's duty. Instead of giving life. Giving death. And encouraging other vamps across domains to embrace should they have the inclination. And maybe even hounding and fighting domains that put up restrictions / penalties for new sires. Just some ideas off the top of my head

>>50459541
I'm mostly thinking a Covenant/Bloodline that isn't necessarily evil per se, but is very much outcastes who want nothing to do with proper society. And are also bearlike.

Barbearians, one might say.

>>50459393
You might go to 7chan's tg and their request thread; everything is there, they have a different mega than the one that gets posted here.

>>50459393
There is no V20 book of secrets, only M20 book of secrets and it's not out yet

>>50459629

Tome of Secrets, rather, the add-on stuff for Dark Ages V20.

>>50459644
Also not out. Do you even fucking check the meeting notes?

>>50459665

I see where it's been out to backers for a month now, asshole.

>>50459590
Alternately a Circle of the Crone affiliated bloodline that recontextualizes the story in the Vampire tradition somehow. I'm not sure about wanton embracing, and after all my idea was to focus on the bear brothers children of the first strix thing as opposed to Polyphonte. Children of Polyphonte might be a good name for them.

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>>50459590
That would just be creating a neutral faction in the woods. I mean I get it. it's a radial rejection of the society as per the mythical mother, but how does this interact with the story?

I mean yeah I've had the Gangrle faction calling themselves the Dark Forest but I mostly used them as pressure to the gangrle character. Asking for politically questionable material in exchange for glory within the wider clan.

As a setting element it's interesting, maybe play up the Protien angle as something the faction hands out forcely. I mean the mythical family wasn't given a choice in the matter. And if you equate vamps with semi/demi/gods they'd be retelling the story in a continuing never ending cycle. Now that I think about it. that sounds usability horrifying

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>>50459781
>>50459590
Ok I got it. You have to create a devotion that forces the target to use protean. Maybe Animalism based? Feral Infection •••• is a good start I think

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4 dots in Chimerstry and I am delegated to making fake pizza

So. How big a pile of garbage do we expect the Hurt Locker fighting styles to be?

The ones in the core book were amazingly shit, and the preview ones were, let's just say, less than stellar.

>>50462223
Why do you feel that way and what would you have preferred?

>>50462418

Because they have gotten silly. Damage everyone nearby because you hold a big weapon? Shoot people so that signs fall on them, with the same damage mod? Yeah. No.

>>50462517
I like them. It handles things like multiple attacks without actually allowing you to roll a stupid amount of attacks. I'm also pretty sure the Revolver Ocelot schtick is in 1e.

Overall I think 2e's combat merits are a lot better than 1e's for a lot of reasons. Not the least of which is that they got rid of multiple attack merits.

>>50462517
>simulationism

>>50462606
No, that's not the point.
Regarding the static damage aoe things, it means that there is no difference between someone who just barely reaches the minimum reqs, and a super-beefed elder vampire or werewolf with higher stats than one can shake a stick at.

With the secondary attack shit, it turns the entire game into a comedy show. I'd expect that kind of shit in Toon, not CofD.

>>50462620
>With the secondary attack shit, it turns the entire game into a comedy show.
It's literally one maneuver.

Those fighting styles in question are also meant for human characters. That said, here's one of the Carthian Fighting Styles that I really like, from Secrets of the Covenants:

>Preemptive Strike (•): Against an overwhelming opponent, a revolutionary’s only choice is to strike first, and to strike so hard the opponent cannot strike back. Your character puts everything into a single attack to end things quickly. When spending Willpower on your character’s attack, add her Willpower dots to the attack roll instead of the normal +3. This technique may only be used in the first turn of combat. She cannot take an action in the next turn, and loses her Defense.
>Unbreakable (••): When resisting Mental or Social coercion, including from Disciplines, spending Willpower adds your character’s Willpower dots to a contested roll, or subtracts from the opponent’s roll on a resisted roll. This occurs instead of the normal +3 or -2 from spending Willpower. Unbreakable may only be used when your character is actively engaged in combat, or will be initiating combat in the next turn. This includes use of Strike to Preempt.
>Dying On Your Feet (•••): The Carthian with this ability remains standing and fighting long after most vampires would fall. Her will forces her forward despite crippling injuries. While in combat, your character suffers no wound penalties, and is not subject to torpor when her Health boxes are full of lethal damage. She may only be stopped by aggravated damage, and thus Final Death. At the end of the combat scene, she will fall into torpor if her Health boxes are still full of lethal damage.

There's also another one called "Toss That Shit Right Back" that lets throw a thrown object right back at someone and ignore their defense if you successfully Dodge, for when shit goes all No Church In The Wild.

Wow, M20 is utter shit - were they drunk when they put this together, or just paranoid about upsetting Brucatto by editing out entire pages of irrelevant ranting?

>>50462778
As not interested in Ascension, I haven't checked it out.
But as someone interested in hearing angry rants, I have to ask: What is up with it?

>>50462713
Yay, a three dot merit that competes with a discipline!

>>50462812
Competes with? Hell. It kicks disciplines out the window.
Cost-efficiency ration is fantastic on that style.

>>50462812
All of the Covenant fighting styles do that though.

>>50462858
Two wrongs and all that

Does "hey, let's fuck" to a stranger qualify as a seduction attempt?

>>50463631
Counts as forcing doors.
Perhaps with a negative penalty for a lack of tact.
Or a positive modifier if they're into that.

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>>50462811
I feel like that this morning, and I’m not quite sure why. It’s not the dancing. I’m used to that. Or the hike – that’s my favorite thing in the world, except maybe dancing. It’s not the sex, though gods know it was passionate enough.

>Lightning flickers underneath my skin – needles, tongues, fingers, fists, a rush of stars exploding into nova to blot out the thrusting of my father’s cock – but all those eternal Nows are distant to the person in my skin today.

>the thrusting of my father's cock
>the thrusting
>father's cock

>And yet we’re told that the age of miracles is over. We’re living in the End Times, a hopeless grind where novelty is just another pop-up ad. We’ve been set against one another in a round-robin game of trivial pursuits. The best we can hope for, we are told, is a big house and a warm bed and a bunch of money in the bank. So sit the fuck down, shut the fuck up, have your TV and a Big Mac and think you’ve got it made.

>Twenty years ago, a game came along that changed gaming. It was big and epic and confusing as hell. It dared folks to think outside the box – to not simply throw fireballs but to really think about how and why we do the things we do. Often considered “the thinking gamer’s game,” Mage: The Ascension subverted everything (including itself) while challenging people to make a difference in their world.

Mage is largely credited for the Yes We Can campaign and the only credible peace deal in Aleppo to date, #ja_naturlich

>One of the satirical elements of Mage involves the fact that everyone’s doing the same thing but almost no one will admit as much. The fact that all mages use some variation on the same nine Spheres is an intentional reflection of that satire.

Yes, it was totally satire, that was totally clear from the way the previous three editions played it completely straight and serious.

>>50462811
>Cultists understand chaos magick as a postmodern and often improvisational Art. Like other mystic practices, it emphasizes knowledge, reflection, and other forms of self-improvement. This revolutionary inversion of traditional mystic disciplines, however, depends upon personal intuition and interpretation; individual freedom; a deliberately iconoclastic approach; and an often subversive use of pop-culture symbols, social behaviors, and improvised designs.

>Chaos magick spits in the face of established dogma. Often regarded by outsiders as a Left-Hand Path , it’s a sex, drugs, and rock-n-roll sort of practice, raising and directing personal energy (that is, Quintessence) through extreme experiences. Obviously, this sort of thing appeals to Cultists of Ecstasy, whose more formal practices – Tantra, vision questing, ordeals, and crazy wisdom (see below) – have been integrated into the chaosmagick potpourri.
>Even that diverse culture, however, is too confining for many chaos practitioners, whose embrace of the Chaosphere – the whirling fractal of absolute existence – resists confinement in any form.

>Playful yet serious, each chaos-magick practice draws from the individual practitioner’s experiences and desires. Depending upon the individual practitioner, it can integrate formalized ritual or involve spontaneous improvisation… or both, or neither. Flexibility and personal investment are innate elements of the practice as a whole, often connected to psychic thought forms called egregores: concepts given reality through extensive investment of psychic energy.

Note that none of this is followed with any real advice on integrating this into a chronicle. It's as if Brucatto dug into, and subsequently cannibalised, an unpublished manuscript for Lleywellyn Press entitled "My Life as a Chaos Mage" to make the redlines on M20.

Actually, he probably did exactly that.

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>>50462811
>Today’s witchcraft features a postmodernist brew of traditional European wise-craft; 19th-century literary occultism and 20-century mystic fusions; pre-Christian elements from Greek, Norse, Celtic, Hindu, Slavic, Roman, Egyptian, and Mesopotamian cultures (with prodigious cultural appropriations from Native American, African, Romani, and occasionally Asian cultures); repurposed Christian and Jewish practices (especially Catholicism and the Kabbalah); postmodernist philosophy, and New Age takes on quantum physics; mass-media iconography; and tons of pure invention wrapped up in a bright bow of fantasy media, political activism, and technological polyculture. This high-eclectic synergy often incorporates computers, the Internet, pop psychology, chaos theory, and other elements that would be entirely unrecognizable to old-school wise-crafters.

I'll have the paradigm of "whatever shit I googled" for my Mage, and we can crossover with my Vampire on the Path of What I Was Going To Do Anyway.

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>>50462811
Many gaming groups favor a potluck approach, with the members all bringing something to the table. Others pool their money and pitch in for a meal prepared by someone else. Whatever you do, please buy smart, eat healthy, and give your hard-earned cash to ethically-run local businesses whenever possible.

If you give money to Pizza Hut, Phil is going to cut you.

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>>50462811
Recommended music for Mage, by Phil Brucatto;

Mystic Techno
Dark Sacred World Fusion
Neotribal World Fusion
Neotribal Ambient
Post-Rock
Industrial Noise
Black Ambient
Dark Atmosphere
Etheral Gothic
Witch-House
Cinematic
Power Techno
Trippy Rave Techno

(note that some of these aren't even genres. Power Techno is described as "Juno Reactor, KMFDM, Project Pitchfork, and VNV Nation" - if you've heard *two* of those groups you'll know there's a problem listing them as the same genre)

>>50465152

Sorry to do a hard swerve on your rant, but I'm a little bummed out that modern CofD games don't tend to have music recs, even if Mage the Awakening 1e's recs were basically "you ever listened to PSYBIENT, bro??????"

Also Witch House as an Ascension inspiration? Please. I know why you put that in there, Brucato, and trust me, the Hollow Ones are complete and total posers and wouldn't even bother listening to it anymore once someone like Balam Acab found his musical voice.

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>That said, Mage is more than D&D with leather trench coats. A game in which folks run around blowing up gas mains with impunity isn’t really Mage . The esoteric elements and themes give Mage its compelling atmosphere, so it’s worth exploring them whenever possible.

>trench coats

>>50465117

I'm a fairly moderate to liberal Anon, but even a short exposure to Brucato's arrogant doucheness makes me want to order some Chi-fil-A, McDonalds and Dominos and then buy a "Make America Great Again" hat out of pure, unadulterated spite.

Brucato is a living caricature of everything that was wrong with 1900's White Wolf. However, M20's excesses and gratuitous and irrelevant bloat is primarily the responsibility of Rich Thomas, owner and creative director of OPP. He totally abrogated creative and editorial control of the book. I'm certainly not impressed with Brucato, but don't blame him for trying to make M20 a narcissistic vanity project if he could get away with it. The person responsible for reigning him in was simply incompetent (see also, Exalted 3 and Beast: The Primordial).

I do respect that Rich brought back the WW ttrpg properties after the CCP fiasco, but sometimes it truly seems like the games prosper in spite of him, and largely due to the tremendous work of a very small cadre of underpaid freelancers.

>>50465307
>Mage is more than D&D with leather trench coats.

You're absolutely correct. Besides trench coats, there were also katanas, mirror shades and quite a large serving of magical minorities.

>>50465438

>1900s White Wolf

I say, old chap, I do believe it is time to wrestle with our inner demons and show that Mortal constabulary what for with our blood drinking.

>>50465470

Tally-ho!

Now, where did I put my Kindred the Embraced VHS tapes...

>>50465470
I say, yes! Simply wizard! Let us stick it directly to The Man through rebellion against Big Macs and MTV! That will certainly show the establishment what for! Hack the Planet!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxk3c_SbWMg

>>50465589
>Woo small guitar solo!

>>50465438
>Rich Thomas

Tell me more about this guy. Apart from the fact that he threads old White Wolf into new White Wolf, and the fact that he makes money hand over fist from Drivethrurpg, I don't know anything about him.

>>50457016
'cus yer a normie

>>50462812
>>50462838
>>50462858
>>50462960
What Discipline does it compete with?

>>50465259
DaveB put together a playlist for Mage 2e. It involved things like Kanye West's Power, starts with the Bear McCreary cover of All Along the Watchtowers, and is pretty awesome.
https://youtu.be/cUchAD44xA8?list=PLxNpDUlclGojuynFQkQ5CQf-P27lmncgv

By the way, there are also official Mood Music playlists https://www.youtube.com/user/TheOnyxPath/playlists
>The Requiem one doesn't have No Church In The Wild
Seriously?

>>50465438
Honestly I feel like most of the complaints and bitching here is pointless and dumb nitpicking. I mean, that pizza one for fucks sake. "Oh no, he made a joke about supporting Mom and Pop Shops, that means he's a nutter"?

>>50465616

He's worked for WW for forever. Like, did art for White Wolf Magazine and everything. If anyone has the pedigree to continue White Wolf, and if we count out Rein•Hagen and the Wiecks, it's probably him. He should just be the creative director of OPP, but since such a small companies has a gajillion IPs at its disposal, he ends up wearing other hats. Since this is slowly changing with Rose becoming overall CofD lead and an actual manager being hired, we'll probably start seeing more changes on the production level.

>>50465616
>makes money hand over fist from Drivethrurpg

No one in 2016 makes money "hand over fist" selling tabletop rpg's, including properties like D&D. TTRPG's did well in the 1990's, but sadly those days (and most local game and comic stores) are long gone.

>>50465715

Yeah, you don't come into the business to make money. Even with DriveThru existing, this market is pretty damn niche. It's why OPP wants to get back in stores with its own material so badly.

>>50465677

These are certainly nice, but it doesn't quite fill the void in my heart, you know?

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>>50462811
>You could have three Virtual Adepts using the same Effect in three different ways: one might activate a scanning app on his cell phone; the second could close her eyes, do some three-part yoga breathing, and extend her senses outward; and the third takes a few hits off a joint, open his eyes and sees deeper than the usual levels of human perception.

Paradigm? What the fuck is a paradigm - *cough* - hit this shit nigga, I call it Alarte Ascendare coz it knocks you higher than Gilderoy Lockheart, you know what I'm saying, motherfucker?.... I mean literally, what was I talking about? *BAM* Entropy 4.

>>50465677
>he made a joke about supporting Mom and Pop Shop

The food remark and other social commentary aren't jokes or even remotely good natured. That's the problem. Even if you totally agree with his politics, it doesn't make him any less of an ass, nor excuse the complete lack of editorial oversight in M20.

If you doubt Brucato's, sorry... Satyr Phil's, intent or attitude, you simply need to peruse his Facebook posts for a while.

>>50465715
>No one in 2016 makes money "hand over fist" selling tabletop rpg's

I like how you keep telling yourself that while White Wolf gets sales on 20 year old books converted to .pdf at ~$20 a unit. Keep living the dream.

>>50465838

That's still chump change compares to the rest of the entertainment market. That's the thing about RPGs, right: it's not just competing with itself, it's competing with other means to take someone's time: video games, streaming services, that sort of thing. Even board games and card games run circles around RPGs.

>>50465677
>Satyros Apologist detected

You fucking buy the line, then, because I'm abandoning ship on this one. I'd sooner chase down Revised era material than suffer one more page of his fucking /attempts/ at rules. Badly written, badly laid out, split up across random sections, repetition, contradiction, omission. Snooty judgement calls on a player's choice of diet is just Phil's white privilege dressed up as countercultural sophistication - his total inability to write a cohesive ruleset is what dooms this edition and kills it in the womb.

>>50465677
>Honestly I feel like most of the complaints and bitching here is pointless and dumb nitpicking. I mean, that pizza one for fucks sake. "Oh no, he made a joke about supporting Mom and Pop Shops, that means he's a nutter"?

its not so much his retarded views as much as he not including material because of lack of wordcount but then wasting word count in stupid shit like that.

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>>50465647
Some of my best friends are normies. I work with normies.

But would you let your sister marry one...?

>>50465838

How many back catalog sales do you believe happen, and how much does OPP and Rich keep after Drivethrurpg and Paradox take their cut. In fact, the little money OPP might make on the back catalog likely goes to pay basic operating expenses of the company and make the freelancer pay rate *slightly* less embarrassing.

>>50465815
I honestly don't see the problem or care. None of this feels as bad as everyone says.
>>50465939
>You fucking buy the line, then
But Ascension is garbage.

>>50465943
So? I mean, complain about that, then. People seem to care more about the fact that the author wanted to write stupid shit than the fact that the author *didn't* want to write more rules.

>>50465943
Oh god, this. We missed out on any treatment of Sorcerers in M20 because of page upon page of ranting about those darn kids today and their darn internet.

>>50465966
I wouldn't expect someone like yourself to understand. Don't try. If you love Ascension, this edition is a spit in the eye. Leave it at that.

>>50465966
>So? I mean, complain about that, then. People seem to care more about the fact that the author wanted to write stupid shit than the fact that the author *didn't* want to write more rules.

Besides that you also has horrendous editing on the book. The paradigm section is confusing, parts are unnecessary and separated in 2 chapters.

The book, again for lack of word-count, lacks merits and flaws with only a very VERY small list of them. And we had this new faction pulled straight from Buccattos ass that barely makes sense and eats more word-count. The disparate should have been in books of secret because being a fan of Ascension i bought the book as a compilation/clean up of rules. I doubt many people picked M20 saying "oh boy, i wanna read all about the traditions-lite version of buccatto".

\Does anyone have the final PDF of The Pack with any errata for Forsaken? Thanks.

>>50465966

Well of course you don't see the problem or care, Aspel. You don't like Ascension to begin with, so it's usage of word count isn't going to bother you. You were never going to read the book. They like it, they're interested in reading the book, and they care. Simple as that.

>>50465954
Here here! It's only fair to treat them normie folk well, but they need to stay in their own neighborhoods.

(Mage: The Awakening)

So I'm planning a Mage game where some brand new mages are sent by their teachers to go solve some shit, and they point them at a murder.

A Beast found a Demon in disguise and decided to TEACH LESSONS, and in the process of the Demon trying to shake them because they just want to be left the hell alone, somebody died. The Mages (whose players know incredibly little about Beasts and literally nothing about Demons) will eventually discover the Supernaturals involved, and yada yada conflict resolution.

Is this an interesting premise? Despite running investigative campaigns for other systems, for some reason Mage has always intimidated me.

>>50466304
>Is this an interesting premise?

No. Don't do Crossover stuff for the basic premise. I just gets awkward. Drop it in later.

>>50466304

Might be a bit too heavy on the crossover if it's a first arc out for Mages. Would you be comfortable replacing the Demon, the Beast, or both, with elements from Awakening? Crossover storylines are best kept light, at least until later on in the stort.

>>50466304
How new is the game? I'd recommend staying aways from crossovers until you can get a feel for your pc's playing style.

>>50466374
I could replace both pretty easily, I wanted to have the Mages investigate a murder that got *weird*.

Change it to a Seer covering up some shenanigans, then? I find the Selesti a little more interesting than the Seers of the Throne, and my players seemed interested in being able to control paradox because they're very bad at recognizing terrible decisions until right before consequences happen. But I know the Seers are supposed to be the primary enemy, so would that be an ideal introduction?

>>50466178
But most people don't complain about these rants because they take up wordcount, they complain because they see Phil as wanky and annoying, and I don't really see much of that. I mean, not to this degree.

>>50466304
How did this third party die in the Beast and Demon's game of Cat and Mouse?

>>50466503
Why are the two options mutually exclusive? Can't we determine him to be wanky, annoying AND overly verbose? Why are only you allowed to criticize OPP content, Aspel?

>>50466524
Are you being intentionally obtuse?
I'm saying "I don't really understand the complaint that he's wanky and annoying, and frankly most of these rants get an amused chuckle out of me at best". It almost seems like parody.

>>50466503
Well, I was going to brush up on Demon because I forget how Cover works /exactly/, but I was going to make it pretty simple and have it be a family member of the Demon/Demon's cover. It would upset them because the Beast is tacitly threatening their existence and it might inspire them to retaliate.

That was the idea, anyway.

>>50466575
You might also argue that the Demon is threatening their existence by pretending to be a family member.

But in general my suggestion for Crossover is never to brush up, except so you can get new ideas. Just use what you *think* the splat is like, and stick to using the powers and mechanics for the splat you're running, themed differently. Or Dread Powers. They're so useful.

>>50466503
>But most people don't complain about these rants because they take up wordcount, they complain because they see Phil as wanky and annoying, and I don't really see much of that. I mean, not to this degree.

Because some people dont know of the missing content of M20 and only read a rulebook with some non sequitur politics, not everyone reads the cesspool that is OPP forums.

Those that do keep on the developments and arent blind fanboys of OWoD, dislike it because the annoying non sequitur politics prevented from actually important material to be added.

Is not even like the guy had to write more, he could just copy paste flaws and merits and the book wouldnt be as bad as it is now. I would have been wonderful if he had written Sorcerers 20 but what we got was neither.

>>50466488
If their first opponent is another Mage, the sheer number of Clash of Will rolls that generally result from Mage vs Mage IME might risk driving your players away.
You could have two different cults clash, with the murder in the middle of it. Sleeper/Sleepwalker Cults mean there isn't too much powerful defensive magic and it will introduce the players to the difference in power and scope between mortal magic and awakened magic.You could even make it possible for them to end the adventure by coopting one or both of the cults.

>>50466666
Like Proximi cults, or do I need to re-read GMC for other kinds of magic?

>>50466503
>But most people don't complain about these rants because they take up wordcount, they complain because they see Phil as wanky and annoying, and I don't really see much of that. I mean, not to this degree

Lets do some aspel-speak to explain it to you.

Imagine you awakening 2nd editions rules for spellcasting or the seers of throne or the rules for yantras were cut short because DaveB wanted to write about how he sees having religious belief to be "a charming character flaw, like mild racism, or voting Conservative." and then going on that good RP groups shouldn't associate with conservatives, religious people and/or mild racist.

You didn't pay for a book about Dave Brookshaw views on life in general, you might agree (of course you do, because aspel) or not but that isnt what you paid to read. That isnt what Mage 2nd edition is suppose to have in the book.

>>50466697
I'd make them Sleeper Cults, with maybe two or three Sleepwalkers between them. Maybe one guy with a supernatural Merit like Mind Reading, so your players can see that there are other kinds of supernaturals in the world.
If you want to give their Mage Sight some workout maybe make one of the Cults backed by a spirit that can use some tricks they can analyse. But in my experience Mage Sight is big and complicated enough that it's better to dedicate a one or two session adventure to all the ways it can be used, and then only once your players have become comfortable with the base magic system.

>>50466736
>seers of throne or the rules for yantras
I don't think that's even in 2e.
And I actually do read the books for more than just the rules, and I understand that sometimes the rules are cut out for non-mechanical parts of the game.

Will Belial's Brood get an update in Secrets of the Covenants or another 2e book? I'm kind of sad they were ditched from the rule book.

>>50466798
>I don't think that's even in 2e.
>And I actually do read the books for more than just the rules,

I dont know what to tell you but the Seers of the throne are in 2ed and they even included their prelacy.

And yantras were first introduced as a mechanic in 2ed. Do you even read the books you fanatically defend?

>and I understand that sometimes the rules are cut out for non-mechanical parts of the game.

The key word there is PART of the game, the author political views arent PART of the game.

>>50466798
>the rules are cut out for non-mechanical parts of the game.

The operative part of the comment is "parts of the game." For instance, Brucato's preferences concerning the readers' culinary habits or political viewpoints have absolutely nothing to with mechanics, setting or storyteller advice in M20.

If Brucato included more setting information in lieu of mechanics or merits, we would be having a simple discussion about creative and editorial balance that is inherent in all rpgs. When Phil substitutes political diatribes and other irrelevant personal material for mechanics or setting, he's just being a douche.

>>50466880
Only like three of the Prelacies are given full rules. the others--or other types of Prelacies--are left up to the ST/Group

>>50466880
>>50466798

Dave included sufficient rules and setting material to make the Seers playable characters in 2e! Further, as another Anon correctly observed, Yantras were first introduced in 2e, and given their importance, will still be substantially expounded upon in the very first 2e supplement, Signs of Sorcery.

>>50466742

Are the Supernatural Merits in GMC, or were those added later in CofD core? Not Spec, obviously, but I always forget.

>>50466842
>Will Belial's Brood get an update in Secrets of the Covenants or another 2e book?

We first need updated mechanics for bloodlines before setting info on Belial's Brood.

>>50466842

I want to say they'll be in SotC, but the books been in development for so long that who knows what's actually be in it at this point. I do wonder how hard it would be to convert the mechanics of Belial's Brood's book to 2e. Might have to re-read it today.

>>50466975

The new CofD core includes a number of supernatural merits. However, it's comparatively meager in scope and depth to the 1e material included in the Second Sight supplement.

Theoretical question: What happens if a ghoul gets fed Antediluvian vitae?
Does it make them any stronger than if they were fed the vitae of current gen vampire?

>>50462811
Like all the other posters have said. Now I could just ignore all the high on your own supply stuff. If the mechanics were actually written well enough. but LORD knows that'd be too goddamn helpful. My half destroyed hardback copy of revised has a better explanation of how sphere magic mechanically fucking works. It's so much fucking bullshit. 400+ pages and the magic section is barely a blimp with little and no explanation. IF YOU CAN SCRY AT CORR 2 JUST FUCKING SAY IT SADSAC, DON' MAKE ANOTHER BOOK AND THEN SNEAK IT IN. Fucker doesn't get noobies have to read his shit. and when you've seen how well mechanics are written in nwod. Jesus get these skellitions a technical writing course

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>>50466178
Stop trying to invoke the A word in an attempt to derail, Anon. Your personal vendetta means nothing and shits up the thread

>>50468061

>Accuse someone of trying to derail a thread when it was posted 2 hours ago and nothing happened in hopes of starting a derail

Pretty sneaky, sis.

>>50467565

It'd probably boost the basic Ghoul template in some way, maybe double the usual benefits. Probably nothing more than that, though.

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>>50468152
every time someone invokes the A its an attempt to provoke. this is known, stop pretending it isn't

Are there any rules for pepper spray? I'm sure I've read them at some point but can't find them anywhere.

Needing because I can guarantee one of my dumbass players is going to get hilariously maced next session.

>>50468221

>implying this isn't just a fake out to invoke the very same derail you crave

Haha, not today!

>>50468411

Which game, which edition? CofD has rules for both editions, and I'm pretty sure WoD has offical ones as well.

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>>50468557
stop being hopeless anon when the message is pretty fucking clear

>>50468634

I'm sorry you're not getting the derail you want.

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>>50468690
you're being a fool. That Anon is clearly not and you are causing the derailment now

>>50463653
Sweet

>>50463631
With Appearance ●●●● it sure does.
With ● or even 0 it's intimidation.

>>50468723

Or perhaps it was you causing the derail all along!

>>50468897
Be a moral fag all you want man, but save the paranoid for in game

You're both derailing, shut up and talk vampires

>>50469088

So what's everyone's favorite bloodline? How about your least favorite?

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>>50469088
the Ironphages are a parasitic organism from mars and must be eradicated, what is their to talk about?
>mirrorshades x-files

>>50468411
in the equipment section of the CofD corebook.

>>50469127
I find most bloodlines to be a bit bland to be honest, especially those that have ridiculous special disciplines like the carnival folk Daeva, but I like the Morbus and the Licinii from Requiem for Rome.

>>50469127
>So what's everyone's favorite bloodline? How about your least favorite?

From OWoD either the Ahrimanes with their discipline minus their write up.

And the Old Clan Tzimice.

Does CofD core have rules for explosives? I can't seem to find any.

So using the "advanced mechanism" reach option, Platonic Form can create a RPG right?
One shot per point of mana stored?

>>50470455

Could have sworn it was in there, but I took a look and no, I was just thinking about Electricity rules.

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>>50470283

Let's see...

I'm just not interested in VtR... so I'll have to pick from VtM.

My favourite bloodline used to be the Gargoyles (because FUCK YEAH, GARGOYLES!). But, after the release of V20 Dark Ages, my new favourite is the Impundulu.

I love the idea of an entire bloodline of vampires that have been forced to turn the vampire/mortal relationship on its head, with the Impundulu vampires being essentially powerful servants of the Bomkazi witches, since the witches could negate the Impundulu's domination and blood-magics and yet the Impundulu could only feed off of Bomkazi witches.

It's a very neat idea, and I wish they'd survived (in that form) into the Final Nights. Unfortunately, they got subsumed into the Mla Watu Laibon, according to the upcoming "Beckett's Jyhad Diary" book.

Anyway, my least favourite clan would have to be the modern Ahrimane; the Dark Ages Ahrimane were fine, but the modern ones are just... blegh, in terms of story and lore.

>>50470651
Making a complex object woud give you a functional RPG. You'd need to provide ammo yourself

Or you could use Platoni Form a second time to make ammo, counting it as a tool and giving it +whatever to make it supernal ammo

>>50470723
Whoops! My mistake, I was actually replying to this post:
>>50469127

>>50469127
Children of Judas or whichever from requiem feel like the kind of tone setting npcs I can only dream of

>>50470723
>It's a very neat idea, and I wish they'd survived (in that form) into the Final Nights

Well they can if your the ST and your players have a willingness to let the Meta take a swift lobotomy. I'm honestly trying to imagine a setting where the tremere didn't mass diablerise the salubri but instead the tzimice

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>>50470882
Well they would have actual magic to study from. so there's that

>>50466304
It's okay, just make sure the reason why Mages investigate it is supernatural/mysterious enough, they shouldn't just investigate random crime. They are Mages, not detectives.

Hey /tg/, I'll be playing Beast: The Primordial soon. I've played WoD in the past, but mostly Hunter or Vampire. I'm still reading through the rulebook, but it's quite hard for me to figure out what kind of character should I play. Do you have any cool examples from your games? Also, are there any cool combos with powers? 3/5 of my co-players like doing things "the hard way" so I'd like to be prepared.

>>50455006
Grow the fuck up.

>>50459200
>I thought she became a Christian and put aside all that Devil work?
That lasted all of fifteen minutes.

>>50455006
>Being a bolshevik

>>50473226

Apparently her faith is still a big deal to her, she just realized she could still write about monsters. That or she realized that she wasn't going to break into the Christian bookstore market, depends on your perspective.

>>50466571
Ok, so you're intellectually impaired. We understand that, Aspel, but most of us are content not to weigh in on content we neither understand nor appreciate.

>intentionally obtuse

You need new insults, your shit is weak as baby's farts

>>50470455
They're not in 2e, but they are in the Armory book in 1e. You could port them with little issue. They'll probably be in Hurt Locker too.

>>50466798
>desperate semantics

>>50458958
>Gender only embrace
Disgusting, I'm so tired of those. Doesn't help 9/10 it's female only.

>>50467565
Are we talking Old World, here?

Because if we are, Ghouls: Fatal Addiction says that a Ghoul's upper limit of Disciplines is determined by their Domitor's Generation. I just can't find the goddamn chart....

>>50468221
>not understanding the true nature of the derailment

Perception 0, I see.

>>50471572
A man is found decapitated, inside a room locked from the inside. Somehow he either cut his own head off, sat it on top of the TV, hid the weapon and then sat down and died... or someone else was in the room and left a windowless room without disturbing a double-deadbolt and a chain.

Easy.

inb4 reeeeeee you're being intentionally obtuse *pathetic noises*

>>50473382
"I have seen no miracle that would save me, nor learnt a secret that would damn my soul" -- Armand

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>tfw when a perfectly good listing of cheap books gets removed because the seller "made a mistake"

There's a new Scion preview up through the Kickstarter, by the way.

>>50475295

Great, but we also sure could use some more Signs of Sorcery and Deviant spoilers this holiday season.

>>50475681

But hey, Secrets of the Covenants and Hurt Locker in two weeks! Necropolis Rio and Dark Eras Companion never ever

>>50475295
Which isn't related to World of Darkness, so I don't know why you're bringing it up here.

>>50475064
There are plenty of Bloodlines where it's almost a given that they wouldn't embrace women.

>>50475222
>inb4 reeeeeee you're being intentionally obtuse *pathetic noises*
That's not why I use that phrase. You're not even being intentionally obtuse.

>>50475781
Because we talk about Scion in these threads and you damned well know it.

>>50475796
>There are plenty of Bloodlines where it's almost a given that they wouldn't embrace women.

Yeah. But they would never, ever, write that out. It'd be gender discrimination.

>>50475814

Don't the traditional Ravnos have Embracing women as a sin on the Path of Paradox?

>>50475849
IT's a level 10 sin and also not a bloodline, on top of that there isn't a magical curse that fucking kills them for embracing women. Though there might be a stigma/desire to kill them, I honestly wouldn't know, I probably know the least about the Ravnos for... Obvious reasons.

>>50475154
>debating after the facts are presented

>>50466304
>A Beast found a Demon in disguise and decided to TEACH LESSONS


Why are beasts so absolutely awful?

>>50475935
Ravnos is a clan. that makes the point Even More relevant not less Anon

>>50476350
confused theme and justifying own existence with meta knowledge

People always talk about how great Dark Ages: Vampire is (and I don't disagree), but folks never seen to address the fact that it's really a bunch of settings all in one. So I have to ask; where is the ideal Dark Ages chronicle set?

>>50476353
I'm not sure how a path makes it more relevant.

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Is Leviathan: The Tempest any good as far as Fangames of Dorkness go? What I heard about it makes it sound like Beast done right.

>>50466575
Cover edits reality almost completely (depending on the rating basically) on a basic, command-line level.

The Demon is NOT pretending to be a family member; the demon has always been that familymember. In fact this is complete to the point that one's children can retroactively become 'offspring'.

To you, the robot in disguise, "bob" is more than a skinsuit with ID: "Bob" is an entire life. That was YOUR highschool memories, that is YOUR dog, that is YOUR father's funeral, these are YOUR children, YOUR wife, YOUR job, YOUR bills, everything. You can cast off that reality because you live in the very engineering section underneath reality looking inwards, but Bob is YOUR reality. And you protect it (and those that are a part of it) with sometimes extreme zeal against the things outside of it.

Last I'd read in the beast book, what REALLY sets beasts off is that they can't just automindfuck Demons into "oh yes you were always my family you love me no matter what even though all my oopsies are completely deliberate and premeditated".

But there's this guy, who's just *not* falling for it, and you know on an instinctual level that that is very, very unnaturally (not 'super' but 'un') wrong. And one day when you decide to tick him off and teach him his place by, say, fucking up his family since you're such a good person, this... THING just tosses its entire *existence* on a coatrack, and suddenly you've got this reality-manipulating chainsaw-massacre with eyes physically?!?!?!? tearing a hole in your dreamland lair looking to tear your world apart.

>>50476540

Some neat ideas and some pretty rough rules, but I like Ahabs way more than I like Heroes and I'm still sad no official game has really hammered home the unique horror spin of "you were never human to begin with and now the illusion is falling away." Werewolf really could stand to play more with that.

I'm forever bitter about Outsider: the Calling dying on the vine.

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>>50466304
>>50476350
>>50476377
>>50476540
>Not wanting to play Wifebeater: The Justifying

If you accept it for what it is rather than pretend for what it is supposed to be, it's actually quite fun. Being in a fantasy abusive relationship is fun.

Can a master of space create sympathy between a place and a person?

Say for example you have a lock of hair from 'Frank' could you create sympathy between the lock and the heart of an active volcano allowing you to use the sympathy between Frank and his hair to teleport him into the volcano?

>>50476576
>made of eyes
FTFY

>>50476601
>Not apologizing for getting in the way dumb waifu

>>50476601
>If you accept it for what it is rather than pretend for what it is supposed to be, it's actually quite fun. Being in a fantasy abusive relationship is fun.
That part is fine. I mean I can do the same thing in vamp, so I don't see the need to include beast as a part of the story. but for me it is the playing the monster and getting angry when people call you out on being the monster is the worst player trait to encourage

>>50476576
This Anon gets it

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>>50476880
>That part is fine. I mean I can do the same thing in vamp, so I don't see the need to include beast as a part of the story.

Well beast is uniquely suited for it through the bad fluff and twisted logic, as well as mechanically through Heroes. I haven't played it recently I admit, so I'm not certain how much has been changed. I remember Heroes as being vilified for being victims of abuse in ways they can't even understand and then despite being the antagonists are mechanically inferior so they can't really threaten you, allowing you to abuse them and others even more in a beautiful cycle of hurting.
>but for me it is the playing the monster and getting angry when people call you out on being the monster is the worst player trait to encourage

Well yes. If you're getting mad for being called out on being an abusive monster in character, fueling a rage and more abuse, then it's all fine and good and part of the fun. You need to accept it's true out of character though to truly get to enjoy it though, that's my view.

>>50475295
Is Scion any good? I had high hopes for ADVENTURE!! that were quickly dashed the moment I read the book.

>>50477188

I never played Scion 1e but apparently it didn't care too much for mythological accuracy and was fundamentally busted mechanically.

2e seems tight so far.

>>50475796
>That's not why I use that phrase.
And yet, "pathetic noises" is the effect you get. It might be time to rethink your strategy, Aspel. Hell, it might even be time to actually *read* the books you argue about.

>>50477203
>was fundamentally busted mechanically.

Epic Dots are just broken due to the fact they grow exponentially. It isn't too bad at lower levels, but the difference of one dot can be over 10 more automatic successes. It's understandable for honest to Gods to deal with Big Numbers, but it just didn't work.

>>50476314
>missing the point

>>50476384
I think as an ST we have a responsibility to tailor our games to whatever our players want to play. Like the classic Cheers episode where Frasier only gets the barflies to listen to "A Tale of Two Cities" by adding sections on the Vietnam War, huey helicopters, .50 calibre machine guns and huge explosions; setting a game amongst byzantine politicking in 1400's Vienna will inevitably bore the shit out of players that want action, combat and more blood than an Eli Roth movie.

So ask your players what themes they want to explore, and set your game accordingly. If all else fails, set the game in a major nexus like Constantinople where you can throw almost anything at them.

>>50476350
>Why are beasts so absolutely awful?

because their reason for existing was shoehorned in the eleventh hour

>>50477346
>tfw no gaming group
>tfw old gaming group was bored to tears by any historical setting or with any more thematic depth than pulp or dungeon crawling

end me

>>50476747
Wouldn't you need a piece of the volcano? That alone could make the working hazardous. I'd also give someone a lava bath if they botch.

>Does bathing in lava count as a breaking point?

>>50477376
I'm about to recruit a new group, most of them younger than me and nowhere near as bitter and jaded. Some of them are going to have sexual preferences and gender/identity combinations that weren't even considered possible when I was their age. I have no idea what kind of stories they want, when they want them set or even what their hard boundaries are going to be.

Does anyone here use safe words for particularly intense horror games? Ever had players walk away from the table when the game turned utterly FATAL?

>>50477482
>Does anyone here use safe words for particularly intense horror games?

Look up material on what they call X Cards, it's the go-to equivalent of a safe word at the roleplaying table. Basically everyone gets a card they can hold up if a scene is making them uncomfortable and when it gets flagged, you move on, no questions asked.

You stop players from walking out on you by having a good session zero where you establish boundaries and expectations, and if you're smart you also do character creation together so you don't wind up with a party who all hate each other.

>>50477004
>>50476601

what is wrong with you people

>>50477539
Oh, they're just acting edgy to get a reaction. If they actually treated partners like that they'd end up in serious legal, social and ethical trouble. Hence them acting out in TTRPG.

>>50477539
>>50477555
It's perfectly normal, don't try to push your views onto others. Everyone in such a relationship is happier and more fulfilled in it, where they belong.

>>50477263
>continuing shit posting

>>50477507
A simple google search shows a record quantity of butthurt. People are acting like X cards are a total veto of creativity and fun, dropped like the proverbial hat by tumblr users to derail threads at a moment's notice. In short, total Aspel.

I'm not one of those folks.

I just want to know what the advantage of X cards are over discussing hard boundaries? The problem I see with the X card is when it's not entirely clear what part of the scenario is upsetting my player, and discussing it with them to find out could induce the same trauma I'm trying to avoid.

>>50477686
>irony

>>50477592
LOL, whatever you say, permavirgin. Just remembered "battered wife syndrome" is a perfectly valid legal excuse for your abused missus to cut your penis off at 3 AM and toss it from the window of a moving car.

>>50477815

An X Card empowers someone to not have to confront something potentially triggering for them in the moment that it comes up; if you immediately plunge into a debate about it then you're a step away from just covering the topic anyway. Better to move on and then ask later if they're comfortable with it, though obviously establishing boundaries pregame definitely helps lessen the number of cards getting flashed. It's not that X Cards are better or worse than a pregame chat, it's that with both you make sure everyone is safe and comfortable, which then has the benefit of allowing everyone to get more fully invested.

There's really no need to shit on 'tumblr' here, when you're dealing with a very interesting and useful part of the hobby.

Also consider reading http://buriedwithoutceremony.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Safe-Hearts.pdf which is a lovely overview of a lot of this stuff.

>>50477815
In all fairness, some of these "boundaries" seem..... extreme.

Abortion
Addiction
Aimlessness
Animal abuse
Authority figures
Being alone
Bigotry
Blood
Bodily fluids
Bullying
Car accidents
Chaos
Child abuse
Childbirth
Children
Choking
Clowns
Commitment
Competition
Corpses
Crowded Spaces
Darkness
Dating
Dentists
Disease
Dogs
Drowning
Drugs
Eating in front of others
Failing
Falling
Feet
Fire
Flying
Germs
Heights
Homophobia
Injuries
Isolation
Kidnapping
Loss of control
Mobs
Natural Disasters
Nazis
Needles
Old people abuse
Pain
Performance
Plane crashes
Poverty
Pregnancy
Pressure
Public Places
Public restrooms
Racism
Rape
Reading aloud
Religion
Scarification
Sex
Sexism
Sharp objects
Slime
Small Spaces
Smoking
Snakes
Specific smells
Spiders
Suicide
Swearing
Terrorist Attacks
Touching
Torture
Uncertainty
Violence
Vomit
War
Yelling

Some of these, if flagged as potential triggers by my players, would actually be a red flag that they needed serious therapy, not TTRPG.

>>50477507
everything besides the cards. I mean like dedicated safe word cards are more awkward than you'd think. I use text message. the feeling and motion of checking your phone hides the unease of having to call people out. Its a problem thats hard to fix. Mostly for me, I don't gm into the heavier elements until I've gotten to known the players.

Like first games between new people are milk runs and easy DnD afaire. unless they give me a messed up backstory, but thats the player signalling that they want to work that stuff in.

The one time I did have to back off, was when I was using spirits as a metaphor for bulling cycle, victim becomes abuser stick, it was a beautiful session. But at the point I was describing a player feeling pinned back by oppressive force, one of the player made to connection to bdsm, and was uncool with it. So I had to stop and reveal a bit more about the scene being a direct correlation to animal abuse. I hate revealing secretes in that manor, but I didn't want to stop the session for a dumb reason

>>50477826
>continuing

>>50477833
You seem to have some problems you should work out, anon.

>>50477888

Lots of those are plenty horrific and all seem perfectly valid as triggers.

>>50477892

Plenty of people use X Cards and really enjoy them, anon. I'd say give them a shot, especially with a younger, queerer crowd, and see how well you like it. They do prove pretty unobtrusive in play.

>>50477888
>Yelling
Like some of these things are pretty extreme like Rape. I could understand if people are off put by rape. But yelling? If someone is freaked out by yelling they do need serious mental help.

>>50477833

Your sexism is disgusting.

>>50477854
hey, I *like* tumblr. It's chock full of impreg porn and naked women. The only way you can get your rightwing conservative sensibilities outraged is if you actively search for silliness. There is no escaping, however, the stereotyping levelled by the alt-right losers still sore about reddit deleting highbrow content like "/r/porchmonkeys" or whatever creep porn they lost this week.

>>50477917
>Eating in front of others
>Valid

>>50477917
>Lots of those are plenty horrific and all seem perfectly valid as triggers.

Not even half of those are acceptable triggers. If a player called a time out on one, they'd be out of any game I was running.

>>50477897
>continuing

>>50477937
People like you make me happy trump won.

>>50477955
>plagiarizing

>>50477946

They'd be welcome in mine.

>>50477917
>Lots of those are plenty horrific and all seem perfectly valid as triggers.

"Eating in front of others", "crowded spaces" and "yelling" literally rules out every quest that ever began with the players gathered in a Tavern. And yet, you see no problem in this?

>>50477976
Reading Aloud though?

>Have your notes ready for the game and prepare to read them
>Fucking X card'd

>>50477936
Keep pretending "battered wife syndrome" isn't a thing, then, special snowflake that you are. The fact remains that most men do not suffer physical abuse from abusive female partners.

>>50477888
>Public restrooms
Jesus fucking christ why is that so funny

>>50477984

The first two are worthy of talking over and yelling makes perfect sense as a trigger. Shouting is often a prelude to violence and that's not a place most abuse survivors really feel like going back to when they're pretending to be ghost hunters.

>>50477966
>butthurt

>>50477976
Hey, if you're down with embracing the losers that can't handle public restrooms and being uncertain, go wild.

>>50478004
What are you even talking about?

>>50477965
The day you figure out your orange saviour cannot and will not deliver on the various and manifest promises he made in the lead-in will be *delicious*

>>50478004
>Keep pretending "battered wife syndrome" isn't a thing

It isn't, it's called battered person syndrome. You're a bad person.

>>50478013
Better not have violence in my game about hunting monsters.

>>50477888
My biggest problem is when folks don't own up to their fears. and don't believe that not everyone has the same irrational hang ups

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>>50478024
I don't care what trump does. The fact alone that he makes you really unhappy is enough.

>>50478004
The fact that you belittle domestic abuse against man makes me hate you.

>>50478004
That fact you seem to think I'm a man is very telling, anon.

>>50478015

I'm hesitant to even engage this, but do you really not know anyone who refuses to use public restrooms? I've known people my entire life, well outside of """Tumblr""" circles, who only like to use their own goddamn toilets.

>>50478032

You can have an awesome game without violence, and trying to make one is one hell of an interesting creative challenge instead of "what thing do we kill this week." Magpie Games did a nice article on games without violence in one of their Fate Codex issues, and another has their Twilight Dames microgame, which lacks a health stat or any combat skill.

>>50477376
>tfw no gaming group

Jakki, you don't have a Mummy group?

How do you even wake up in the morning?

>>50478028
Men are statistically less likely to come forward about abuse

>>50478013
I've suffered extreme violence with no shouting, no warning, just a punch to the head from a total asshole stranger. TTRPG gets exciting - people shout. There comes a point where the gaming environment itself, and not the subject matter, could turn toxic for individuals. At that point they don't need a time out, they need therapy, or gaming just isn't going to be an option.

>>50477976
Let's get real for a second. I can get someone being disturbed by violence or abuse, but if someone's having trouble with things like "feet", "poverty", "dentists" or "germs" during a game they should seek a medical help.

>>50478040
Cry some more alt-racist trumptard.

>>50478051
>You can have an awesome game without violence
Not saying you cant but is WoD really the right platform? Play that other system you just said.

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>this thread

>>50478052

Anon, I haven't played anything in over two years, and have never had a gaming group that I could really say I've enjoyed.

>>50478059

Dealing with triggers and phobias is something to be handled with a mental health professional, sure, but that doesn't mean it's on us to confront every single bit of trauma they've ever suffered when we're trying to pretend to be elves or Frankensteins.

>>50478054
That has nothing to do with the post you're responding to. If anything, that makes it worse.

>>50478014
>unoriginal

>>50478064
>Feeling sorry for victims of violence somehow makes me a trump supporter
I dont even live in that country you moron.

>>50478051
>I'm hesitant to even engage this, but do you really not know anyone who refuses to use public restrooms? I've known people my entire life, well outside of """Tumblr""" circles, who only like to use their own goddamn toilets.
There's a world of difference between "I'm not sitting my ass cheeks down on a piss-covered porta pottie" and "The mere existence of such a thing triggers me, whipping out my no-no card".

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>>50478075
THIS IS BEAST: THE PRIMORDIAL'S FAULT

>>50478038
Meh, anyone who gets to be president disappoints me. The first few meetings all their energy and individuality gets sucked out like a psychic drain. Soon they're just another sock puppet.

Hmm, there's a game in that.

>>50478071

I'd definitely address expectations going in, and if I had a player who didn't want violence asking to join, say, a Vampire chronicle, I'd probably suggest they reconsider. It's important to say that I can be perfectly okay with people having any hang-up under the sun and still admit that it means not every game is for them.

Hell, I probably don't think running Wraith would be a safe idea for most of my friends.

>>50478051
Yes, there are many people who don't like to use public toilets, but there are hardly any people who go in to fucking Vietnam-esque PTSD episodes at the mention of a public pisser.

I know war veterans who don't get as "triggered" as people nowadays. Shit's crazy.

>>50478024
Talking about the color of someone's skin? Ugh, don't you know it's 2016?

>>50478047
Wearing a dress doesn't allow you to Occupy XX Chromosomes, Aspel.

>>50478064
wrong demongraphic

>>50478080
We need a new listing on this: >>50477888 Facts

>>50478051
>You can have an awesome game without violence,

These are HORROR GAMES. You literally cannot have them without dark themes. The fact you don't see this as problematic when combined with people who clearly need psychiatric help troubles me deeply.

>>50478086
>uninspired

>>50478051

Both the WOD and CofD are bloody horror games about deadly mythical monsters. While everyone can play however they wish with their own groups, WW games without some degree of significant violence, at best, seem genre counterintuitive and downright boring.

What happens in these non-violent games? Instead of consuming blood, do vampires refuse to use their victim's preferred pronouns and invade their safe spaces while wearing "Make America Great Again" hats?

>>50478106

I don't think you know what any of this looks like if you assume a cartoonish Nam flashback at the mention of a trigger. If things worked that way, they'd scarcely be able to hold up a card and move on with the pretend game.

>>50478137
>unironic use of "problematic"

And you could do a baller Changeling game that was plenty disturbing without overt violence ever factoring in, or a Wraith game where all of the horror comes from guilt and regret, or or or....

Use your head. Limitations foster creativity.

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>>50478098
>THIS IS BEAST: THE PRIMORDIAL'S FAULT

Does it's evil KNOW NO BOUNDS?

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Can't this thread go two days without turning into a shitstorm?

I can't stop laughing... my sides

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>>50478165
No they don't. Censorship and avoiding anything that makes you uncomfortable simply accelerates your issues and decline.

>>50478161

If you can't make your point without stupid hyperbole you're not really making your point. I've already said Vampire isn't a solid fit for a player opposed to violence, but if you want to run with your idiotic example then you could easily do a plenty dark Promethean chronicle about trying to build a queer identity for yourself at a world that rejects you at every turn and how hard it is to carve out a comfortable niche.

>>50478169
>>50478098
>>50478075

But it's okay because this thread deserved it for being bad. Beast: The Primordial did this to teach us a lesson, now we will be mindful.

>>50478182

Anon, I hope you know that exposure therapy isn't random fuckwits on the internet saying HEY LOOK AT THE THING THAT TRIGGERS YOU.

And are you really arguing against escapism in a thread about playing pretend?

>>50478195
Damn straight I'm arguing against escapism in this thread. There's a difference between playing a game and being dependent on it for escape and being unable to separate reality and fantasy.

>>50478165
That was hyberbole, you idiot. I'm aware how PTSD works, considering I was diagnosed with it. And hey, you know what I do when something reminds me of the event that gave me the condition? I don't care, because I'm a functioning human who is able to deal with their issues like an adult, rather than hiding and demanding everyone conforms to me like a child.

What I'm saying is that people getting genuinely, and deeply, uncomfortable at the mention of a toilet is extremely off the chains.

>>50478152
>Anon's entire life