Horus Heresy General /hhg/

What are some "atypical" Imperial Fists lists?
I'm suffering from "list writer's block".

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>>50409594
Same guy who posted this. I confuse the names, Shadowsword, Shadowblade, Shadowhedheog, whatever, you're planning to use the tank with the Hellhammer 36" S10 AP1 Ignores cover, right? But that's a 10" Blast, I don't think BS makes much difference.
That tank, the Stormsword can't take +1 sponsons either, just extra AV14 on its sides.

>>50409866
Bunch of fast attack and assault dudes.

Not sure why you'd build a list like that, but it's doable.

>>50409821
Just finished Know No Fear. The pair of mechanicum adepts gave me the feels. Fukkin' Abnett, man.

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>>50409866
I guess Fists either teleport or do shieldwalls, both of which are actually nice for ZM. If you want an atypical Fist list, don't listen to >>50409885.
I mean, aren't Fists meant to deffend stuff? Pic related defends better than the usual Imperial Fist, so you could try some fortifications.

>>50409899

>that rational explanation of mechanicum theology
>that server checking out his robo waifus robo bootie

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>>50409917
Care to post an excerpt?

So someone linked a pdf of Master of Mankind in the earlier thread. PDFs are all fine and dandy, but does anyone have a .mobi or .epub? Dont have much to trade, unless you are still missing books from the Beast series.

>>50409870
Yeah, that one. Hello again. Whoever thought baneblades should be named via a random generator thrown the words Storm, Bane, Hammer, Sword, Blade and Shadow should be shot for annoying the clerks.

Giant ignore cover Ordnance gets much better with Inteceptor and AP0. Fuck your rhino wall.
Not sure about the SAV14 or the sponsons, both seem nice.

>>50409899
Know No Fear was pretty good. One of my favourite parts was the description of the very initial Word Bearers attack, of that ship ramming through everything in barely a few seconds.

>>50409976
>Whoever thought baneblades should be named via a random generator thrown the words Storm, Bane, Hammer, Sword, Blade and Shadow should be shot for annoying the clerks.

Have you never played a Games Workshop game before?

>>50410002
No, in universe. Would make a nice bit of side fluff.
But yeah, the Guard have that problem a lot.

>>50409999
>It starts to rain main battle tanks

>>50410068
Oh man. I forgot that part. Kek. I need to re-read that book someday.

>>50409916
Get fucked AL, thank you based Kyr Vhalen.

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>>50409885
Well, yeah, but is there a build that uses their specialties and/or uniques, rather than just them taking a generic build that works for every "workhorse" legion?

Spartan deathrush is all I feel comfortable using without wondering "is there something different I could be doing to make the most of the IF legion?".

>>50409916
I agree, even Dorn's cover-buffing rule is underpowered compared to Vhalen's (though the primarch is underpowered as a whole I think).

A Rite of War that benefited tac and support squads on foot would be a lot better for them IMO.

Personally I prefer to attack rather than defend, and the mixed terminator squads are nice for that, but I don't see much else to work with there other than Spartans.

Assuming options are as limited as they appear to my non-tactical genius eyes, what advice should I heed to be better at Deep-Striking?

>>50409899
>>50409999
I really like the part when the Word Bearer and the Ultramarine bros have a dinner party and the Word Bearer hints at betrayal and shoots him in the face.

Anyone got Children of Sicarus?

Anyone else feel Ra's character was originally supposed to be Amon Tauromachian's?

Feels kind of odd that we haven't heard of this absolute badass Custodes second-in-command till the book came out

>>50409866
Canonically, Templar lists.

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>>50410185
Second for Children of Sicarius and first for The Thirteenth Wolf.

Here you got Master of Mankind in pdf.

>according to Laurie Goldberg on TFE the part where Emps stays his hand out of love at the final showdown is going to be retconned

Absolutely fucking fantastic

>>50410330
the fuck

So what are the chances of us getting 30k Watchers in the Dark for dangles?

>>50410330
Well now we are to believe that the God-Emperor of Mankind was legitimately defeated by Horus. and that Horus by default was the most powerful being alive.

>>50410149
It was exactly all of those little side-stories that made that book so good. The build-up to the actual betrayal was great.

>>50410447
but then how did the emperor still win
inb4 ollanius fucking pius turns out to be a perpetual space lizzard illuminate psyker that fucks up horus in true BL fashion of fucking up good fluff

>>50410447
Well he was as close to the Emperor as genetically possible, designed as a weapon of war with centuries of experience as such, and had the power of the four primeval beings of a parallel dimension channeled through him.

>>50410133
>"is there something different I could be doing to make the most of the IF legion?".
Post your current list m8
>though the primarch is underpowered as a whole I think
I think Dorn is fine, but his support rules are a bit dumb and obsolete. Sure he and his squad gain Crusader and Furious charge...but you're putting him in a PF/SS Cataphractii unit. They do not Sweep, do not run, and S8 wounds the same as S9. And he allows you to reroll Pinning tests you're now immune to. But three rerollable cover of ones is still useful, and militia can use those rules as well.

>>50410261
No, AD-B wouldn't just take one of Dan's characters, I imagine Tauromachian is reserved for the Siege.
With Valdor being up in the palace, the story needed another officer, that's all. And with Ra and the other two Tribunes it did give us some neat info about the structure of the Ten Thousand.

>>50410462
Indeed.

>>50410330
Fuck this shit, I still don't remember why I hate Laurie Goulding, but now I have yet another reason to.
>>50410447
>>50410474
I know right! I wonder what will be of Ollanius now. Maybe he warp-steps behind Sixteenth and stabs him in the back
>Pffft nuthin personel, Warmaster.

>>50410489
Authors in this series constantly take characters from each other, and it would fit for the great fate Magnus sees In him

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>>50410532
Unless the Lion punches his head off as well or something.

>>50410330
This girl is ruining it.

>>50410550
>i have two personalities.jpg

>>50410532
Yeah but ADB wouldn't just take one of Dan Abnett's, he idolises him and is nowhere near that cheeky about that sort of stuff.

Also Amon Tauromachian's storyline - in any conventional plot - seems to be set up to not endthe way Ra's did.

Of course as >>50410550 pointed out, some times the authors just throw obviously planned story developments out the window because fcuk you that's why

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>>50410550
>When memes become canon

>>50410330
>emperor no longer got his power from shamans, instead he bargained with the chaos gods
>ollanius pius is some shit eternally reincarnating dude instead of a literal who guardsman
>emperor now has no love for his sons, and thinks of them as test subjects to the end
>now he's legit gonna be asskicked by horus instead of emps still being stronger than him, but having too much love for his children so he won't go all out
man...

>That guy Ahriman's Aide on TFE just copied my Master of Mankind spoilers and changed the swearing to nicer words

Hey, dude. FUCK YOU. But as a fellow TS player I guess I forgive you

>>50410474
>but then how did the emperor still win
Chaos will remove their favour from Horus, since they intended to lose all along.
I'd post a spoiler'd ":^)" face, if it weren't for the fact I'm depressed about that legitimately being what's going to happen.
>>50409445
>>50409521
It's actually easier than magnetizing an octoblade, since you can only take 5 variants.

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>>50409899
>>50409999
>>50410149

>>50410588
> Amon Tauromachian's storyline - in any conventional plot - seems to be set up to not endthe way Ra's did.
>Some times the authors just throw obviously planned story developments out the window because fcuk you that's why
I just wish they did the same to John French's bullshit. Don't you agree, Alpharius?
>>50410619
You know, Thiel realized they could be killed in melee just fine. So Nemiel was right, no need for witchery bullshit, just your trusty blade. And the Lion is THE blademaster, besides maybe Fulgrim, Khan, Angron and the Angel.

>>50410631
>horus losing was all planned
oh fuck no
i would legitimately be happier to get a fucking warhammer fantasy ending-esque chaos wins everyone you liked is dead in 40 than that fucking retcon

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>>50410639

>>50410630
>on TFE
Where?

>>50410631
Oh yeah. I guess the Reductor list only would use 3 of those. Shadowsword, Stormsword and Stormlord, so I could always just build it with those 3.

>>50410677
I don't keep up with non-WS HH books because they're trash, but I think this particular retcon happened a while ago.

>>50410677
to be fair, im pretty sure I read up on how horus losing was the legit plan of chaos. Because horus would put the 'galaxy in flames' and end up waging a galaxy wide war that would end up with every human dead, which would sap almost all of the chaos gods powers.

this was also stuff that I read like 5+ years ago, so its not very recent.

So /hhg/, I'm making a Salamanders list, and I wanted to make it an assault army with artillery support. However, I already have one basilisk, vulkan, and a sicaran venator, and as such would like to include them in the list. I would also like to do this with a relatively small amount of points. If you have any advice, I'd like to hear it please.

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>>50410631
>Chaos will remove their favour from Horus, since they intended to lose all along.
So the Cabal's bullshit was true? If Horus won then he'd eventually come to regret it and the human race would go extinct?

>>50410687
Spoiler area, if you read my spoilers you'll recognise my exact text, loads and loads of it.

I'm not actually salty, I was pleased I was able to share something new with /hhg/ I like you guys, I just think it's gash that he just pasta'd the stuff as if it was his phrasing, like fuck off dude, write your own shit.

Should be used to it with the other wiki just nicking loads of the shit I wrote for lex, but let's not go there.

>>50410716
yeah i'm not 100% up on the fluff
but i don't think it was ever 100% confirmed , maybe hinted at but the chaos gods lie all the fucking time anyway
it would defeat the whole fucking point of the setting since chaos fucking wins and has done so for the last 30 years eat shit everyone else
makes the whole cabal thing pointless to

>>50410726
>relatively small amount of points
>Vulkan
Eh, I was going to argue Primarchs' support rules are wasted when you have little more than his deathball to recieve those buffs, but it's Vulkan whom we're talking about. +1Ld and Adamantium Will aren't that noticeable right now. After Inferno, however...
Did I use "whom" correctly?

>>50410737
>Alpharius Fast Ball
To get /hhg/ off the depressing subject BL writing, what would this look like as a RoW?

>>50410791
Yeah, I realize it might sound a bit silly, but I don't have too much money to spend on it and I did mean relatively in the sense that it would be relative to fielding a primarch.

>>50410809
roll a dice for each enemy unit
on a 2+ it's actually alpha legion

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>>50410757
>Spoiler area, if you read my spoilers you'll recognise my exact text, loads and loads of it.
I'm sure of it, but I don't have them on hand in order to google it and find the stolen excerps. Also, I'm reading MoM (lol mom), you captured the feeling.
I was asking what TFE meant, but I now remembered it's The First Expedition.
Is there something we could or you want us to do? If you're angry I can be angry with you too :)

>>50410791
>Did I use "whom" correctly?
Yes, "whom" replaces him or her (or [Helicopter noises] when talking about someone who identifies as an attack helicopter), "who" replaces he or she (or [Helicopter noises])
In the sentence "but it's Vulkan whom we're talking about" it wouldn't make sense to say "but it's Vulkan, we're talking about he" but it for "but it's Vulkan, we're talking about him" so whom is used.

>>50410876
No, don't do anything, I'm very mildly rustled, not actually angry, will probably just post
>Hi Ahriman's Aide, you cheeky bleeder
in like the next two generals or something. Thanks tho anon!

500 point Terminator/ transport mini deathstar- AoD lists only, as a SW player and have no special units right now.
Was thinking of
5x Terminators-
4x twin LC
SGT with Plasma blaster, and Thunder hammer.

Land Raider Phobos dedicated transport.

>>50410930
Fuck, forgot armor style.
Cataphractii.

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Opinions of this Cybernetica list? It's what I'm planning to be my first goal.

I know Meltastellaxes aren't very good compared to the other loadouts, but it's what you get in the Cybernetica Battlegroup. That everything has ETAs is also mostly to fill out the points to 2000, so I can avoid buying more models right off the bat That comes later

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>>50410825
No, I'm just saying. I mean, a 2+/3++ EW Praetor with a Thunder Hammer mastercrafted for +5pts can be nasty as well. Like what I told FunkyRat, just be aware you're not using your Primarch THAAAAT much. Then again, Dawnbringer is the most hammer hammer to ever warhammer. Is it true it was going to be a gift to Horus, because fuck the Emp's Worldbreaker?
If you want Vulkan, bringing the Firedrakes seems fitting. So is a pimped Spartan. Those are lots of points in relatively few models, maybe that could serve you?
>>50410890
Oh, great
>or [Helicopter noises] when talking about someone who identifies as an attack helicopter
I like (You).
>>50410906
As you wish. Apparently he's also in 1d4chan.
Hey Ahriman's Aide, are you reading this? Learn how to quote, and give credit where its due.
I hope anons don't mind us writing some of the advice you guys say and adding it to the tactica? HHG would make a good think tank

What's a good armament for some Abhuman Helot and Gene-Crafted Ogryns? Was thinking of power mauls. 4 base attacks at S8 per model. Or would S7 power axes be better for the AP2? How many should one invest in?

>>50411020
Thanks for the advice, its just that I already have vulkan and it would be a waste not to use him.

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>>50410330
Source?

>>50411187
Look up the TFE MoM thread, he says he's wanted to retcon it for a long time

>>50411187
http://z13.invisionfree.com/The_First_Expedition/index.php?showtopic=1979
Read the whole context. It'll give your anger even more power, that is :^)

>>50411187
>TFE
The First Expedition. It's where Laurie hangs out and smugs.

>>50410809
Since that'd be classic alpha legion rather than meme legion, something with hidden deployment, and bonuses to shooting on the turn they get revealed. Extra victory points for every unit/vehicle/character destroyed by your fastball unit.

The RoW disadvantage would be something about keeping that unit alive or giving up a victory point.

>>50410809
>Pick a number and keep it hidden
>On that turn all your weapons become Twin Linked in the shooting phase.
>The Mutable tactics must be Infiltrate
>The Primarch must be present and revealed by the turn number you picked.

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>>50411218
>he says he's wanted to retcon it for a long time
>>50411221
>It'll give your anger even more power
>Don't for one minute think that William King's HH text will not be completely retconned at the first opportunity.
>>50411227
>It's where Laurie hangs out and smugs
>mfw
Oh that smug britbong needs a kidney stone the size of a land raider. But I will admit that
>Number XVI bestrides the broken body of Number IX. The Emperor looks blankly at them, sighs, goes SSGSS and blasts XVI with a Psychic Kamehameha so powerful the Chaos Gods themselves go ‘Damn’
made me kek.
>By removing the Emperor seeing any of the Primarchs as children or even caring about them beyond mere tools, it also removes his reasoning for not instantly obliterating Horus the moment he sees him on the Vengeful Sprit. It’s been mentioned that the Emperor was nearly killed because he held back, because he did not instantly just terminate Horus with extreme prejudice. But here, ADB has utterly removed that. There is literally no reason at all why the Emperor would not simply unleash his full power and snuff Horus out like a Tsunami on a bonfire. Which suggests one of two things. Either the Emperor was lying and he does care about the Primarchs, or that thanks to Horus’ power up even at his full power the Emperor was not stronger than Horus and couldn’t simply obliterate him and had to slug it out, getting ripped up as a result.

But far more than that, it also utterly robs said scene of the emotional intensity that has been attributed to it from the very start. Several times the emotional weight of Father confronting son and the final clash has been made both in and out of universe, and here it’s all swept away. Its creator confronts tool. That has nowhere near the same level of intensity or emotional resonance. How can you empathize with that?
This. All of this.

Yes I know copying Battlescribe is not the best, but I was in a hurry. Thoughts?

++ (Age of Darkness) (1800pts) Ordo Reductor ++

+ HQ (310pts) +

Magos Reductor (310pts) [Abeyant, Archmagos Reductor, Cyber-familiar, 4x Cyber-occularis, Djinn-skein, Machinator Array]

+ Troops (530pts) +

Adsecularis Covenant (100pts) [Carapace Armour, 20x Tech-thrall, The Rite of Pure Thought]

Adsecularis Covenant (100pts) [Carapace Armour, 20x Tech-thrall, The Rite of Pure Thought]

Thallax Cohort (165pts) [Destructor, Melta bombs, 3x Thallax]

Thallax Cohort (165pts) [Destructor, Melta bombs, 3x Thallax]

+ Elites (65pts) +

Tech-Priest Auxillia (65pts) [4x Servo-automata]
····Adept [Enginseer]

+ Fast Attack (210pts) +

Crusade Fleet Primaris-Lightning Strike Fighter (210pts) [Battle Servitor Control, Ground-tracking Auguries, 2x Two Kraken penetrator heavy missiles]

+ Heavy Support (685pts) +

Myrmidon Destructors (375pts) [2x Graviton Imploder, 2x Myrmidon Destructor, Triaros Armoured Conveyor]
····Myrmidon Lord [Graviton Imploder]

Ordo Reductor Artillery Tank Battery (310pts) [Medusa cannons]
····Ordo Reductor Artillery [Machine Spirit, Siege Plating]
····Ordo Reductor Artillery [Machine Spirit, Siege Plating]

+ Lord of War +

Stormsword with lascannon sponsons (470 pts)

++ (Allied Detachment) (730pts) Legio Cybernetica ++

+ HQ (315pts) +

Anacharis Scoria (315pts) [Xanathite Abeyant]

+ Troops (230pts) +

Castellax Class Battle-Automata Maniple (230pts)
····Castellax class Battle-automata [Two Power Blades]
····Castellax class Battle-automata [Two Power Blades]

+ Fast Attack (185pts) +

The Homonculex (185pts) [Arc Scourge]

Ok, to the people helping with the Baneblade variant choice earlier, I made a list. Does this seem OK? Warlord is the Reductor Archmagos, he goes with the enginseer and buffs/fixes the Stormsword.

Is Battlescribe playing up again, or can I have two archmagi in different detatchments? Can't reach my books ATM.

>>50411328
>>It'll give your anger even more power
Told ya
>But I will admit that "Number XVI bestrides the broken body of Number IX. The Emperor looks blankly at them, sighs, goes SSGSS and blasts XVI with a Psychic Kamehameha so powerful the Chaos Gods themselves go ‘Damn’" made me kek.
Same. But considering I feel nothing but contempt for both Horus and Lorgar, I'll be calling them Sixteenth/Warmaster and Seventeenth.

>>50411328
>Either the Emperor was lying and he does care about the Primarchs, or that thanks to Horus’ power up even at his full power the Emperor was not stronger than Horus and couldn’t simply obliterate him and had to slug it out, getting ripped up as a result.

Or the Emperor wasnt fighting against Horus but the Chaos gods while Horus ripped the Emperor a new one in the physical realm and after realizing he couldnt win against the gods he simply blasts Horus to non-existence breaking the link the gods had to reality.

You're welcome Black Library, I expect a warlord titan by christmas.

>>50410809

For the first two turns, you control your opponnent's units and your opponnent controls your units
You and your opponent do not roll for reserves.
You and your opponent may not fire weapons in the shooting phase, assault in the assault phase or cast non blessing powers in the psychic phase.

>>50411330
Wow, I didn't know a support Archmagos could still be that expensive. I remember something about only a single Archmagos being allowed in the army, but I checked and I couldn't find it, so I may be wrong. Then again, Cybernetica does explicitly say that if you're bringing an Archmagos Dominus then you can bring no other Archmagos of any kind, neither Taghmata nor Reductor. Something must be made if you want to keep that Djinn Skein, which Archmagos Dominus Scoria lacks.
>Is Battlescribe playing up again, or can I have two archmagi in different detatchments? Can't reach my books ATM.
You don't have them in your phone. Tell me it's not an Apple Scyllax phone.

>>50411478
>The opponent is still allowed, however, to spin around a lot and very fast, as well as making funny faces at you.
>This Rite of War makes the consumption of alcoholic beverages mandatory.

>>50411563
Losing the Djin-skein sucks, but that means I can lose a couple Cyber-Occularis as well as they were just acting as spotters, and that is about 100 pts freed up for other stuff. I'll manage.
Books aren't on phone because my phone throws a fit at the MEGA, and I haven't transferred them from my computer yet.
Support Magi are expensive as hell, but he is essentially several consuls in one, giving units of his choice Interceptor and cover reduction for 15 pts and buffing an Ordnance weapon with +1BS, Tank Hunting and +1 to damage table. That's a lot of force multipliers.

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>>50411328
>>50411221
>Don't for one minute think that William King's HH text will not be completely retconned at the first opportunity.
is this because they know they can't actually write something as good?

The horus heresy was never really high literature to begin with, but they've kind of gone off the rails with the tone of the whole thing, even within their own works. Retconning king's story when they deliberately reprinted it at the start of the series as a way of showing where the story would end up is kind of against the point, you'd think.

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>>50411396
>>50411396
>Told ya
And you were right, Anon.
>But considering I feel nothing but contempt for both Horus and Lorgar, I'll be calling them Sixteenth/Warmaster and Seventeenth.
I'd call them "Misguided Tyrannical Edgelord" and "Whinny Choirboy".
>>50411443
>You're welcome Black Library, I expect a warlord titan by christmas.
>Oh Anon, that's not good enough for me. You get nothing!
Says Goulding.

>>50411740
The way they're going I bet these faggots won't even end the series with
>I was there, the day that Horus killed the Emperor

>>50411721
Watch out. Cyber-Occularii give Interceptor to nearby models, not units (so bubble wrap them, they have Stealth), but the cover recutor (aaay) happens when it is close to the enemy, rather than near an ally. Maybe you are aware of that, I'm just being clear.
I know whe whole gist of your list is to use Scoria, so I won't mention Satarael being an Archmagos Dominus that also has a Djinn skein. Then again, what is +1BS to Large Blast weapons?

Just finished Master of Mankind, a few thoughts:

The state of the Custodes at the end of the book doesn't really lend itself to how many were described in TBA series.

Not all that pleased with Emps viewing the primarchs by their number designation as things he created, purely as tools. Surprise surprise Emps is a collassal douchecanoe under ADB.

Oh and Chaos' inevitable victory 10,000 years later is assured. Of course. Once again ADB's view of how it all ends is reinforced. No, there's no hope, there's no Star child, there's no reincarnation of the Emperor if the golden Throne fails. Just Chaos will devour all.

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>>50411740
>but they've kind of gone off the rails with the tone of the whole thing, even within their own works
I think Matt Damon, the Cabal, Perpetuals, and Deathfire are the highlights of their insanity. But we shouldn't blame Deathfire on all of them, just Kyme and Laurie since the latter is the editor. Also Kyme dones't look like the way I imagined him. For the longest time I'd pictured him to be a Rasputin/Manson looking psychopath that needs to be restrained at all times.

>>50411829
He looks just the way he writes, clean, dull and uninspiring.

>>50411851
If only his books were as short as he is.

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>>50411828
>Surprise surprise Emps is a collassal douchecanoe under ADB.
Not sure why he does it though.
>Oh and Chaos' inevitable victory 10,000 years later is assured. Of course. Once again ADB's view of how it all ends is reinforced. No, there's no hope, there's no Star child, there's no reincarnation of the Emperor if the golden Throne fails. Just Chaos will devour all.
I wouldn't worry about it too much. Pic related and the current Chaos dex will explain it all.
>>50411851
Haven't thought about it like that.
>>50411903
How short is he?

>>50411828
Anon, Primarchs may be men, but certainly aren't children, even if they do act like that. The Emperor created them not out of paternal feelings, but because he needed generals, and He was going to raise them as such. Things got out of hand when chaos kidnapped them, and He has indeed served as a mentor to them, but he's simply reminding himself they have a duty to mankind before everything else.

Also, He's immortal. When you reach a certain age you stop giving a fuck, and that's in the span of a single mortal life. To the Emperor, who has known countless people for several lifetimes, the entire concept of a person boils down entirely to circumstance, nothing more.

The Emperor wasn't a god, so please stop assuming he's perfect, omniscient, omnipotent and all-loving. He's not giving you free-will either, so be compliant of fucking perish, thank you very much ;^)

In this case, the Emperor very much exists, and isn't your parents. Or anyone's father, no matter how much Dorn or Guilliman want to believe so.

>>50411957
He's 5 foot 3 inches
source: I've stood next to him and I'm a 5 foot 7 manlet

>>50411790
Yeah, that is the difficult part of using those. Maybe I will have them follow my Thallax around, hand out Interceptor, be in good spotting position and allow them to ignore 4+ cover within 12".

My Scoria conversion I have planned would also work as Satarael, so maybe I'll use him from time to time. He is essentially a support Scoria, plus no Slay the Warlord 2/3 of the time.

>>50411977
And you have stood beside him where?

>>50412013
Nice try, fed.

>>50412022
did you pee in the urinal beside him

>>50411973
>but he's simply reminding himself they have a duty to mankind before everything else.
ADB please, we know he had paternal feelings towards Horus, and at the very least feelings of camaraderie towards most other primarchs. Regardless of how many retcons get piled on after the fact.

>>50412082
I doubt he saw me pee, most likely met him in whw during an open day.

>>50412082

Exactly. The whole: oh, ima refer to them by their number because they are tools to be discarded when need be. thing kinda falls apart when their was that whole retirement/vacation home built under the palace for all the Primarchs to use when the Crusade ended.

>>50412123
You clearly don't put your tools away neatly when you've finished with them for the day.

>>50412143
I'm not a mental case who builds a dollhouse and holiday retreat for my needle files, no.

>>50412153
>not having a sweet custom toolbox and wall mounts for all your shit

anon pls

>>50412123
This, while the space Marines were disposable the primarchs weren't and he cared for them, but I do think there wouldn't be space for Russ, Angron, Perty and other such retards in the new Imperium

>>50412123
>Implying that underground condo wasn't built for emps and his loyal custodians to have fun with the sisters of silence during weekends.
>implying emps wasn't going to just order the primarchs to stand in salute for eternity after the great crusade.

>>50412176
>Russ
So long as he's got booze and on a short leash he's fine.
>Perty
So long as he's not too bitter he's a good boy, but his paranoia and fatalism though.

>>50412176
So, he built a containment chamber for them, that way, the autism, childish behaviour and general inability to function as a normal human would stay put!

Wasn't it called 'The Fourth Chan' by chance?

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>>50411829
>Also Kyme dones't look like the way I imagined him. For the longest time I'd pictured him to be a Rasputin/Manson looking psychopath that needs to be restrained at all times.
Are you kidding? Look at that face. He'd fucking set you aflame if he knew he could get away with it.
I gave him all-white eyes because that seems to be the trend, see?
>>50411977
Duuuude. He's tiny!
>>50412120
>I doubt he saw me pee
Pfff don't fool yourself. He totally saw you pee. The sooner you accept it, the sooner you'll be able to move on.
>>50412082
>>50412123
We can agree to disagree, and indeed most of the other lore do point towards the Primarchs being the Emperor's sons in every sense, I mean wasn't Sisteenth the Emperor's favourite? Turn he was kind to them but mainly because he knew it was the correct thing to do. I mean, people describe me as "kind", yet to me I was outright being indifferent-yet-polite to them.
Emps built himself some human-looking weapons, but weapons is what they are, no matter what the weapons themselves may have to say about it.
But the bit about them having their own room in the palace, man I liked that. Emps was kind to weapons, truly he's the Omnissiah :^)

>>50412265
>Are you kidding? Look at that face. He'd fucking set you aflame if he knew he could get away with it.
>Pfff don't fool yourself. He totally saw you pee. The sooner you accept it, the sooner you'll be able to move on.
You've shown me the light. I forgot looks can be deceiving and Kyme wants to set Anon's dong on fire.
>I gave him all-white eyes because that seems to be the trend, see?
I'd give him red eyes because ya know Sallies have them.

>>50411020
>>50410630

I do apologize, but if it makes you feel any better, I was trying to make Laurie Goulding see a review that was not just kissing ADB's arse and celebrating a series of rather stupid retcons, and I was taking the arguments made by people here to back it up. Consider me taking your criticisms and putting them before Laurie Goulding so he has to respond to them.

Sometimes I think I'm the only person there willing to call Laurie Goulding out on his shit, and I try to make him see the other side and an opposing opinion. Which is a shame, I've met the guy twice and he seemed a nice guy, but that was well before he went south and up his own arse.

I'm waiting to see how long I can get away with it before he grows tired and bans me from the forum.

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>>50411903
>>50411977
I vaguely recall at least one joke about it in WD when Kyme was on the team. Dwarf player, naturally.

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>>50412176
>I do think there wouldn't be space for Russ, Angron, Perty and other such retards in the new Imperium
Silly anon, mankind cannot be trusted to rule itself, that's why the Emperor decided it needed him. No empire will ever be free of treachery and degeneracy, and sometimes monsters can be used to fight monsters, to protect mankind. Hell, that scenario is the Night Lord's very exemplary battle. That was precisely why the Eight was made for.

Not to mention orks will never be truly defeated, neither will Tyranids cease to be a menace.

And Mortarion would be an awesome Ordo Hereticus inquisitor.

Also, stop ruining my wet fantasy about what would have happened if the Heresy hadn't happened but other events still occurred, and Perturabo ended up recruiting from Krieg while Mortarion recruited from Catachan. Thank you very much.

>>50412297
>Kyme wants to set Anon's dong on fire
I'll make the edit. For (You).
>>50412327
I'm the supportive anon, that sounds like a fair motive. On hindsight, you were clever by hiding it was from 4chan, Laurie probably hates it. Well done, maybe we simply misunderstood you.
Having a voice there does feel nice, then.

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>>50412327
>Sometimes I think I'm the only person there willing to call Laurie Goulding out on his shit, and I try to make him see the other side and an opposing opinion.
You have the nerve, Anon, and go forth and take our words to Laurie.
>I'm waiting to see how long I can get away with it before he grows tired and bans me from the forum.
I'm surprised he hasn't done it yet.

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>>50410621
Right?
What the fuck is wrong with these writers?

>If we remove all the emotional drama it will make the story better.

Pius should be a mere mortal (or whoever stands up to Horus). Emps should be emotionally torn apart by seeing his dreams crumble at the hands of his sons. It is literally a better story in every way than the shit they seem to be leaning into.

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>>50412419
>I'll make the edit. For (You).
Thanks, m8.

>>50412327
I couldn't stomach the old pre-BL, pre-FW 30k crowd much back then, and they've only gotten worse since.

More power to you. I don't think I'd be able to handle forum conversations with those twats these days.

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>>50412519
>Jesus Christ that insight
I couldn't find a bigger Kyme image, so I kept the one it already had.

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>>50412532
>I couldn't stomach the old pre-BL, pre-FW 30k crowd much back then, and they've only gotten worse since.
How bad could they be? So bad it makes a man sick?
>>50412565
>I couldn't find a bigger Kyme image, so I kept the one it already had.
Thanks, Anon. You're making my night.
>>Jesus Christ that insight
That's the limit, Anon. Lord only knows how low your frenzy resistance would be.

>>50412607
>How bad could they be? So bad it makes a man sick?
for lack of a better term, they were the warhammer hipsters

just not the crowd I wanted to spend time with

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>>50412638
>for lack of a better term, they were the warhammer hipsters
I can take that.

>>50412638

This.

Back in the ancient days, 30k Fans were the hardcore. Everything had to be converted from plastics, and people were quite fanatical and there was always a whiff of superiority in spending days converting up a squad of Mk IVs out of plastics with green stuff, beads and parts from across the range. 30k Players considered themselves the elite and were always at pains to remind you of that. People here are spoilt given FW's pre-Heresy armours and then the plastic armours since.

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>>50412607
Your welcome. Each time I learn to do even cringier memes!

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>>50412638
>>50412668
I can see your point. And though I love the setting and fluff discussions, it's why I always keep myself at arms length from 30/40k. As fun as it is, there are plenty of people far too invested in the game and/or setting that will rip someone else apart if they badmouth their waifu.

I love me some Great Crusade/Heresy era content, but I'm not going to fight someone over it.

>>50409821
Which Primarch would you fuck, teegee?

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>>50412697
And I got something just for you.

>>50412806

This attitude is what has ruined 30k everywhere. Endless Primarchshilling, Primarchfagging, Primarchwars and more Primarchshit.

One good thing about the FW books is that the primarchs are distant figures in them. Most of the focus is on marines, commanders and officers engaged in the main battle front. Not this endless focus on the Demigod manchildren that are the primarchs.

>>50412836
Gee, thanks anon.
>>50412846
True, and I don't get that question either. I mean, it wasn't even for bumping the thread.

>>50412846
Couldnt agree more, I prefered the old Black Library that had 40k as a sandbox for writers to come up with their own characters and stories rather than telling the story of primarchs and trying to create a streamlined storyline of a setting that was known and reveled in the fact that it was made of contradiction and half-truths.

The Horus Heresy should've been the story of an era rather than a comic book mythology of a bunch half-witted demi-gods with retarded personal stories that go nowhere.

>>50412846
Correct. The question we should be asking is: Which legion consul would you fuck?

>implying the Legion Champion isn't the purest and best waifu, unlike the slut Master of Signal and Primus Medicae

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>>50412879
>Gee, thanks anon.
Glad to be of service.

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>>50412846
Primarchs are very important.

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>>50412933
>Which legion consul would you fuck?
Could we not?

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>>50410444
100%

They still won't do anything and just hang out.

>>50410330
>BL ruins HH
>Nobody is surprised
>Again
I wish I could stop posting this.

Would-be mechanicum player here. Other than Tarantula, which I don't like for aesthetic reasons, what are good anti-air choices for the army?

>>50413094
>people still use my edit
Nice. Also I do think someone did make a better edit.

>>50410668
It's just a reminder of why Lion needed Luther around. Luther would have calmly informed Nemiel that they weren't using warp magicks, but just channeling the power of Caliban. Which is totally legal under the Edict.

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>>50411829
>For the longest time I'd pictured him to be a Rasputin/Manson looking psychopath that needs to be restrained at all times.
When, in fact, he's just a crummy Benzaie knock off.

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>>50413214
>channeling the power of Caliban
Ok witch, I did laugh

>>50413114
V U L T U R A X

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>>50413118
I actually prefer the big white square, though.

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Ok so my tamiya clear red came in. I don't have an air brush so I thought I'd experiment on some junk parts. I thought I'd share my findings.

So the top left is black primer, balthasar gold.

Middle is the same but shaded with nuln oil.

Third is rustoleum gold.

After 2 coats with the tamiya red are the bottom three.

The first I tried gingerly shading with nuln, but i dont have the gloss version so that didnt work well.

the middle i put the tamiya on too thick the second time because I was impatient.

The third I realized you have to be selective with the tamiya and only hit the parts you want red because its pretty thick when applied with a brush. Maybe I just need to thin it more using the isoprop. But you can tell when i tried to put grey then gold then lighter gold on the aquilla.

I think selectively shading with the nuln, rather than washing the model after the gold but pre tamiya red is the way to go. then only hit the parts you want red with the tamiya. That way you wont fill in details and you'll have shading for the red. More experiments later.

>>50413624
E X P E R I M E N T A L
R U L E S

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>>50413629
Well that makes my day. Why is this anime perfect for reaction images related to this general?

>>50413656
Of the three I think the middle came out with best, it's a much richer red color.

>>50413656
you should try experimenting with highlights before applying the tamiya

like, use some runefang and edge-highlight the armour after the wash

>>50413690
I think if I layer it on thinner, but more times, I can reproduce that.

>>50413718
Thats a good idea. I'll try that too.

I have another test batch coming up

>>50409976
If you thought that was bad wait until you meet the space wolves!

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>>50409976
Have you seen this then?

>>50413680
Because the polite Japanese term for dude on dude is BL. Keep your eyes open and you'll see plenty of funny shots.

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>>50413929
>Because the polite Japanese term for dude on dude is BL.
That's strangely fitting. Here's a pic I found that fits with the Space Wolves in recent years.

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>>50413923
>banelord titan isn't on the chart

>>50413997
>Khorne filth
Anon, why would you want that?
They actually did make a Banelord when they made that image. https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Baneblade_Homebrew
My favorite has to be the Felllord if only for its fluff.

>>50414020
why would you ever not want something that has a weapon called a doomfist

>>50414041
Because Khorne is garbage and you should feel bad.

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>>50414041
Only if it's voiced by Terry Crews

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Are any of the baneblade variants exceptionally good with space marine crews?

Always seemed like the fell/glaive/falchion were just plain better

>>50413662
A N D ?

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>>50413656
>>50413690
>>50413718
>>50413782
Ok here it is with the rustoleum shaded with nuln and highlighted with runefang. Then with two coats of tamiya clear red with the second layer still drying. I think one more layer will get the red deep enough.

Im going to try a balthazar base, rune highlight then tamiya red tomorrow.

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>>50413923
Use the more up to date variant familiorum

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>>50413997
>>50414041

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>>50414331
I think we have a winner

>>50413997
Hellblade is also missing.

Best tank is Air Superiority.

can a legion apothecary join a command squad? was thinking of putting kharn, 4 command squad dudes, and an apothecary into a dreadclaw for my crimson path list. 4+ FNP and a turn 2 charge would be neat.

>>50413656
I've been using tamiya clear red on my brush for my TS without problems (other than my own painting skills), if you're saying it's thick then you're loading the brush or trying to go back over it way, way too soon.
You want to treat it like water, even though it's viscous and do one application each time. It should still be the uncercoat with a faint red coating after one brushover, should be 2 or 3 applications in general. Gloss wash for sure, yeah.
I'm gonna try that tint shit out next week, see if it does what Duncan said, easier than handpainting clear red if so.

>i get an apology and a picture made of kyme looking at my dick in one thread
you guys are the best

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>>50415432
Yes, they can. Have fun bud.

>>50415661
>that tint shit
was literally announced the day after i ordered the tamiya. i was pissed ha.

>>50415759
Old rules. They can now join any infantry unit not in termie armor or a daemon

>>50415919
Oh shit, I guess I downloaded the wrong one.

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Anyone have that picture of Conrad Curze being edgy and saying his likes and dislikes? That one that's based on that autistic coldsteel the hedgehog?

I'm trying to describe it to a buddy and I can't fucking find it anywhere

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>>50415870
Dayum. That's the kind of shit I could see actually happening during the Heresy.

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>>50415870
Top notch

>>50416105
It actually does happen.
>Paramar

You know what's real fucking uncool? Playing a Knight army when all you have is a regular 2500pt, no-WAAC-faggotry army. The dude was doing all sorts of rules-bendy shit like running, electing to run flank speed in his shooting phase, and then charging 3d6 in assault. With the same fucking knight in one turn.

It was my first legit game of 30k so I wasn't about to start calling him out when I wasn't certain on the rules, but it annoyed me that he went balls to the wall against someone who didn't stand a chance to begin with.

Also, fuck stomp attacks. Again, not sure if the rules were applied correctly but d3 large blasts fucking raped everything those pie plates touched.

What are some hard counters to Knight armies, if I ever come across one again?

>>50416262
>What are some hard counters to Knight armies, if I ever come across one again?


Don't play those kinds of faggots. 10/10 strat. Works every time.

>>50416262
Man, that guy was a dick.

I'd say massed high strength weapons, chainfists, melta, lascannons, etc.

>>50416262
Stomp attacks are small blasts ...
Never play that dude again. And don't forget to tell him what a sad little fucker he is.

>>50416283
>>50416294
>>50416301

What bums me out is that I spent so long making a 30k army, even though I don't even collect the models to play, I just like the HH fluff and the models because it's therapeutic af to sit there and paint them, but I really enjoy the atmosphere of the 30k community so I thought I'd give the game a try and that was my first experience.

Can't believe he even lied about the stomp attack markers. God, he was such a twat...

Sorry /HHG/, rant over.

>>50410631
>>50410737
Didn't you guys read the novel? The Chaos Gods real objective, their main goal, was to blow the the Imperial Webway. This ends humanity's hope of escaping the Warp for all time and It seals their fate. Humanity's fall is assured. Horus was just the bonus round, the optional objective. His victory or defeat didn't matter at all. Whether they get the galaxy now or 10K years later doesn't matter. They will end the galaxy in the end. Magnus's stupidity made sure of that.

"Master of Mankind" confirms, out the Emperor's mouth, that the Chaos Gods won the HH hands down. The Emperor dream was wrecked and he fell into despair.

>>50416426
The webway project was retarded. Dont try and pretend otherwise.

>>50416262
>>50416340
What an asshole, I'm sorry anon.

Do a Centurion Delegatus get a free power weapon?

>>50416531
They do not, but they can master-craft a weapon for free.
The Centurion has a chainsword by default, you'll need to replace it as the Delegatus does not any different weapons as standard.

>>50416426

And that's fucking retarded.

ADB and his fucking: "Chaos wins it's inevitable trololololololololol." bullshit

>>50416531
Unless you're putting him in Terminator Armour that is, then he does have a power weapon.

>>50416670
Oh, I seem to recall they got it for free, maybe that was just the Alpha Legion character Delegatus thought.

>>50416739
He has a power weapon as standard yes, so I assume that's where the confusion comes form.

>>50409821
Could you anons help me out? Can we order the collector's edition of Magnus the Red yet? Or is it yet another situation where I'm too late?

>>50416780
Yep, thanks for the help.

Having never come across them, even in 40k, how do the Baneblade/sword/shadow/hammer etc variants perform in 30k?

I'd like to add some fortifications to my legion, where can I find the rules for the Wall of Martyrs Imperial Bunker?

I just need to know which books I need to buy.

>>50416495
>A crusade, then an empire, all beneath one man’s banner.

>+Everything that has happened, will happen again. It is the way of things. Yet humanity’s death will eclipse the eldar’s annihilation tenfold, for we are evolving into a far more psychically powerful race. Uncontrolled psychic energy will tear reality apart. The warp’s entities will feed on the carcass of the galaxy. There must be control, and control must be maintained.+

>‘Control…’ Ra repeated. The scale of such ambition…

>+The necessity of it. Lest mankind face a far harsher extinction than the eldar. Their souls shine bright within the warp, drawing the predations of the beasts within its tides. Soon, every human soul will become a beacon of fire.+

>How, Ra wondered. How can you know? What other unbelievable futures have you foreseen? How can evolution itself be conquered and controlled?

>+Through vision, Ra. We see the warp as an alternate reality, and this is so. It is a mirror, reflecting our every thought and action. Every hate, every death, every nightmare and dream, echoing into eternity. We break into this place, into a realm that harbours the pain and suffering of every man and woman and child to ever live, and we use it to sail between the stars. Because we must. Because until now there has been no other choice.+

>‘The webway,’ Ra murmured into the silent night.

>>50413114

Lightning fighter.
Alternatively, 3 myrmidons - you don't get skyfire, but you do get 24 S6 shots.
There's also the ability to give thallax skyfire but you cant move them if you want to do that, I think it also makes them heavy support instead of troop.

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>>50417102
>>+The webway. Mankind is ascending, Ra. Humanity is taking a great developmental step, evolving into a psychic race. Uncontrolled psykers are lodestones for the warp’s touch. A species comprising them would suffer as the eldar suffered. And for the eldar, this evolutionary juncture was their final step before destruction. I will not let humanity be destroyed by the same fate. The eldar had the answers within their grasp but were too naive and too proud to save themselves. They had the webway, which could have been their salvation. But they never fully severed their connection to the warp. Their soulfires drew damnation upon their entire species.’

>Ra knew this, yet never had it been related to him in these exact words, flavoured as they were by the promise of prophecy. With the webway, humanity would need no Navigators. They would never need to rely on the unreliable warp-whispers of astropaths. Vessels would never enter the warp to be lost or torn apart by the entities that dwelt within it. But the eldar had done the same, had they not?

>+No. They eradicated their reliance on the warp but they never severed their species’ connection to it. I will do that for humanity, once and for all.+

>Ra twisted in the nothingness, turning to stare at the light of so many distant stars. He faced Terra without knowing how he knew its direction, only knowing that he was right. One of those pinprick starlights was Sol, so far away.

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>>50417113
+I have conquered humanity’s cradle-world. I have conquered the galaxy, in order to shape mankind’s development as it at last evolves into a psychic race. No isolated pockets of our species may remain free, lest in their ignorance they invite destruction upon us all. I have shattered the hold of faith and fear over the human mind. Superstition and religion must continue to be outlawed, for they are easy doors for the warp’s denizens to enter the human heart. This is what we have already done. And soon I will offer humanity a way of interstellar travel without reliance upon Geller fields and Navigators. I will offer them means of communicating between worlds without reliance on the warp-dreams of astropaths. And when the Imperium shields the entire species within the laws of my Pax Imperialis, when humanity is freed from the warp and united beneath my vision, I can at last shepherd mankind’s growth into a psychic race.+

>The primarchs, thought Ra. The Thunder Legion. The Unification Wars. The Great Crusade. The Space Marine Legions. The Imperial Truth. The Webway Project. The Black Ships, with psykers huddled in the holds, watched over by the Silent Sisterhood. It is all about–

>+Control. Tyranny is not the end, Ra. Absolute control is but the means to the end.+

>The hubris… Ra couldn’t fight the insidiously treacherous thought, to see the hidden depths of his master’s ambitions. The sheer, unrivalled hubris.

>+The necessity.+ The Emperor’s voice was iced iron. +Not arrogance. Not vainglory. Necessity. I have already told you, Ra. Humans need rulers. Now you see why. A single murder is on one end of the spectrum, for rulers bring law. The hope of the entire race is at the far end of the continuum, for I – as ruler – bring salvation.+

>Ra stared towards distant Terra, unsure if he was humbled or touched by the alien sensation of something akin to terror.

>+You are shedding tears, Ra.+

-"Master of Mankind"

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>>50417126
tl;dr The Emperor whole life's work was the Webwawy project. It was mankind best and only shot at being free from Chaos forever. From the time he was a boy to the moment he conquered the galaxy, everything was being made to build for paving way for humanity to claim the Webway. He was so close....SO CLOSE to finishing it. He cared nothing for the glory, Primarchs, or anything save completing the Webway project.

Then came Magnus to blow it up. All is lost. All is lost. They won. The Gods of the Warp won. Humanity will never be free. This is why several characters in the novel shed tears. What a waste.

FUCK MAGNUS

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>>50410314

Is this book worth a read? How's the plot and the new fluff?

>>50417158
Had he not been a blundering autistic dumbass to begin with there wouldn't have been a problem with Magnus.

>>50417167
Awesome and awesome. So much world building. So much revelations. So much new lore.

It's one of the best sources for the Emperor and Chaos lore.

>>50417158

I still don't understand why getting the webway would somehow magically make Chaos a non-issue.

>>50417175
>Emperor : Magnus, my son, don't do a thing.
>Magnus : IMMA DO A THING
>rip in peace humanity's future

Malcador said it himself that he cannot bring himself to blame Horus. Horus was corrupted against his will.

Magnus, however. He fully blames Magnus because of all the Primarchs he should have known better!

>>50417189
not by itself, but it as well as severing humanity's connection to the warp would make Chaos a non-issue.

>>50417189
Human would cut off itself from relying on the Warp. This means they eventually will devolve/evolve away from being a psychic race since they no longer would have a use for their psychic abilities and don't have much contact with the Warp.

>>50417158
That is so fucking dumb. Using the webway to travel has nothing to do with saving humanity form the warp. How can they write that humanity is becoming a psychic race at the same time as not using the warp. Fuck BL is bad.

>No. They eradicated their reliance on the warp but they never severed their species’ connection to it. I will do that for humanity, once and for all.
>I can at last shepherd mankind’s growth into a psychic race.
Emperor confirmed jabbering retard.

>>50417195
Fuck off Carnac.

>>50417206

Except Emps said he wants humanity to become a psychic race. Futhermore, it still doesn't solve the problem. Demons still exist. The gods can still tempt mortals. All his plan achieves is safer travel for his forces.

>>50417222
>How can they write that humanity is becoming a psychic race at the same time as not using the warp

Humanity is evolving into a psychic race. There is nothing the Emperor can do to stop it. However, he can guider its direction and safeguard it from Chaos hijacking it.

By cutting off humanity's need for the Warp via the Webway and forbidding the usage of psychic abilities, humanity will eventually lose their psychic abilities over the generation.

Basically, the same thing that happened to the Dark Eldar.

>>50417239
>humanity will eventually lose their psychic abilities over the generation.
Ahahahaha. Fucking dumbass.

>>50417231
You

see

>>50417239

He doesn't want it. He cannot stop it. After they evolve he will server their connection to the Warp.

>Futhermore, it still doesn't solve the problem. Demons still exist.

These guys weren't a threat to the Eldar Empire, though. They would be even a lesser threat to Webway Imperium who has no need for the Warp and doesn't use it at all.

>>50417247
>Give an example
>acts a fool

The Dark Eldar because they lived in the Webway and stopped using their psychic abilities and killed anyone who did eventually lost the ability to use psychic powers. Their psychic potential atrophied and dwindled.

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>>50417189
While I don't think it'd immediately cut off humanity's ties to the Warp, access to the Webway would mean that humanity wouldn't have to rely on millions upon millions of psykers to function as an empire. That would cut off a fairly sizable source of Warp-problems, since navigators and astropaths are required to constantly play with the Warp in order to perform their jobs (navigating ships through the Warp and providing interstellar communication).

Without Warp travel, the Imperium couldn't exist, and humanity would be living in fragmented societies again. With access to the Webway, 'dangerous psykers' (i.e. anyone) could be executed without worry until Big E could figure out/institute how to guide humanity to 'evolve as a psychic race'.

What that entails, I doubt we will ever know for sure. It might have just been the Emperor's hard enforcement of Science, Reason, and No Religion Ever.

>>50417258
>>50417265
>They would be even a lesser threat to Webway Imperium
The Emperor wasn't moving humanity into the webway. What are you on about?

The webway is just a means of travel. Thats it. Your headcanon about the Emperor trying to stop humanities psychic evolution is the exact opposite of the stated fluff.

>>50417277
>The webway is just a means of travel.

The fuck? The Webway is massive realm which has countless Eldar cities,ports, and sub-realms. The Dark City is probably larger than multiple Hiveworlds combined.

And what I meant by Webway Imperium is a Imperium with a functional Webway access.

>Your headcanon about the Emperor trying to stop humanities psychic evolution

He wanted to server humanity's connection to the Warp thuis nullifying their ability to use the WARP. You are against what's stated in the fluff.

>>50417297
>You are against what's stated in the fluff.
Post one source that the Emperor was trying to stop humanities evolution into a psychic race.

>The Webway is massive realm which has countless Eldar cities,ports, and sub-realms.
Yes but the Imperium is in reality. What I meant was that the Imperium wasn't moving into the webway. They were going to use it it travel without the warp. They weren't retreating there like the DE.

>>50417297

Psykers use the warp to fuel their abilities. How can you sever this connection and still have psykers?

>>50417322
well you don't. That's the plan I think.

>>50417269
Am I the only one who likes the depictions of Sanguinias looking like an older man and not young and slightly feminine?

>>50417319
>+No. They eradicated their reliance on the warp but they never severed their species’ connection to it. I will do that for humanity, once and for all.+

Here, The part you whined about and then promptly ignored.

>They weren't retreating there like the DE.

How do you know that? The Imperials were already expanding into the Webway taking over abandoned Eldar cities and outposts. Colonization would have followed after humanity secured the Webway.

>>50417333
>And soon I will offer humanity a way of interstellar travel without reliance upon Geller fields and Navigators. I will offer them means of communicating between worlds without reliance on the warp-dreams of astropaths. And when the Imperium shields the entire species within the laws of my Pax Imperialis, when humanity is freed from the warp and united beneath my vision, I can at last shepherd mankind’s growth into a psychic race.
>I can at last shepherd mankind’s growth into a psychic race.
>psychic race.
Ah...

>>50417322
You don't. If a psyker loses his connection to the Warp, he is no longer a psyker.

I think it's clear to anyone that the Emperor wanted to de-psykerize humanity by isolating them from the Warp once and forall.

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>>50417339
See >>50417346

>>50417346
The fucking Custodes was going to say how is this different than the Eldar.

The Emperor replied by saying.

>+No. They eradicated their reliance on the warp but they never severed their species’ connection to it. I will do that for humanity, once and for all.+

No warp connection. No psykers. Period.

>>50417362
Is this new bait?

>>50417357
You do realize this was AFTER the Webway was blown up, right? Humanity will evolve into a psychic race but eventually will fall just the same as the Eldar. This is what the Emperor despaired.

The Eldar had their golden age and then fell.

>>50417367
No, it's just you being stupid.

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>>50417367
I think so. People gotta accept plotholes are still a thing.

>>50417387
>I will sever humanities connection to the warp
>I will guide humanity into glorious psker masterrace

Sounds more like it's Emps being stupid.

>>50417379
Yeah ok. Years of established canon is all gone because of one vague line in BL text that is contradicted directly afterwards with the Emperor directly saying
>I can at last shepherd mankind’s growth into a psychic race.
This somehow means to you that the Emperor wanted to not have humanity be a psychic race.

I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt that you are baiting.

>The Emperor turned to him, His eyes focusing on the Custodian for the first time. ‘The war is over, Diocletian. Win or lose, Horus has damned us all. Mankind will share in his ignorance until the last man or woman draws the species’ last breath. The warp will forever be a cancer in the heart of all humans. The Imperium may last a hundred years, or a thousand, or ten thousand. But it will fall, Diocletian. It will fall. The shining path is lost to us. Now we rage against the dying of the light.’

>‘It cannot be this way.’ Diocletian stepped forwards, teeth clenched. ‘It cannot.’

>The Emperor tilted His head. ‘No? What then do you intend to do, Custodian? How will you – with your spear and your fury and your loyalty – pull fate itself from its repeating path?’

>‘We will kill Horus.’ Diocletian stared at his defeated monarch, illuminated in emberish light of the lumoglobe in his hand. ‘And after the war, we can begin anew. We can purge the webway. The Unifiers can rebuild all that was lost, even if it takes centuries. We will strike Horus down and–’

>‘I will face the Sixteenth,’ the Emperor interrupted, distracted once more by the machine graveyard. ‘But there will come another to take his place. I see that now. It is the way of things. The enemy will never abate. Another will come, one who will doubtless learn from Horus’ errors of faith and judgement.’

>‘Who, my king?’

>The Emperor shook His head. ‘There is no way to know. And for now it is meaningless. But remember it well – we are not the only ones learning from this conflict. Our enemies grow wiser, as well.’

>Diocletian refused to concede. ‘You are the Emperor of Mankind. We will conquer any who come against us. After the war, we will rebuild under your guidance.’

>The Emperor stared at him. He spoke a question that wasn’t a question, one that brooked no answer.

>‘And what if I am gone, Diocletian.’

>The Master of Mankind trusts the Custodian Guard implicitly, and is even accompanied by them in is private chambers

Waaaait, so does this mean that there are even custodes in the same room when the Emperor is having a potty break ?

Holy. Shit.

>>50417411
>Years of established canon

That has nothing to do with what's being discussed. This is the Emperor trying to salvage the fuck up of the HH and giving humanity a few more years of life.

The following text to "PSYCHIC RACE" is him saving I am going to cut off their connection to the warp. What happens to psyker with no connection to the Warp. This is crux of it all. tell me now. It's meaningless anyways since Magnus made sure it will never happen.

>>50417435
>Humanity starts using the webway to travel
>Psykers now have no connection to the warp
Explain your reasoning.

>>50417417
>The Custodian had no answer. Thunder pealed above them, shaking the cavern and jarring loose a rattling hail of falling pebble-dust.

>‘My king, what now? What comes next?’

>The Emperor turned away, walking into the darkness of the cavern while the storm hammered the dead city so far above. He spoke three words that no Custodian had ever heard Him speak before.

>‘I don’t know.’

This is basically the Emperor saying that shit is fucked. It's broken forever. There is no fixing it. The Imperium and humanity are DOOOOMED. This is your leader. Enjoy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2HokZaeg5k

Black Library was a mistake.

>>50417444
The Webway is isolated from the Warp. It changes itself depending on the tides of the Warp to ward off any warp influences. Humanity depending on this realm would mean less psychic activity. Psychic power overtime would be just vestigial tail for mankind.

Also if you are not convinced, then tell me what did the Emperor mean by "they never severed their species’ connection to it. I will do that for humanity, once and for all".

>>50417470
Eldar depend on that realm and are filled with psyykers.

>>50417470
>Humanity depending on this realm would mean less psychic activity.
>Psychic power overtime would be just vestigial tail for mankind.
These do not follow and you have given no information that would allow this it be stated as true.

Humanity is going through a psychic evolution already. See >>50417357
>10,000 of thousands of years in the making
Humanities psychic future has nothing to do with the need for warp travel in the Imperium. Therefor Webway travel would not cause humanities psykic potential to atrophy.

Also the idea that because Navigators and astropaths are gone psykers will disappear is ludicrous. Why would this be the case?

>they never severed their species connection
The Eldar used their psychic powers in a way that allowed chaos taint. They prayed/worship their own gods within the warp and the Emperor wanted to destroy all human religions for this reason.

>>50417490
Let me explain to you the conversation between the Emperor and the Custard in simple words.

>Emperor : I will take the Webway and guide humanity's psychic evolution. This will make them safe from the Warp since they won't use it just as much
>Custard : But that sounds like the Eldar and you know that they fell. How is humanity going to be different than the Eldar?
>Emperor : Simple. While the Eldar didn't rely on the Warp they still kept their connection to it. I will cut off humanity's connection to the Warp once and for all.

>>50417508
>guide humanity's psychic evolution
>I will cut off humanity's connection to the Warp

Do you understand the inherent contradiction here?

>>50417520
Do you understand the concept of plot holes ?

BL dun goofed. Again. Won't be the first time, won't be the last.

>>50417520
Maybe he intended for them to use him as a conduit. He can pass Perils for days

>>50417502
>These do not follow and you have given no information that would allow this it be stated as true.

Dark Eldar.

>Humanity is going through a psychic evolution already. See >>50417357


After which the Emperor was going to cut their connection to the Warp. However, this is no longer an option since no webway.

>Humanities psychic future has nothing to do with the need for warp travel in the Imperium. Therefor Webway travel would not cause humanities psykic potential to atrophy.

It did for the Dark Eldar. Not relying on the Warp for anything and just stopping the usage of warp abilities have caused warp abilities to disapeear from a species with potent psychic potential.

>The Eldar used their psychic powers in a way that allowed chaos taint

Nice headcanon. The Eldar usage of the Warp wasn't what brought Chaos out upon them. It was the fact that they were psykers. Their actions in real space fed the Warp and brought them the attention of Chaos.

>They prayed/worship their own gods within the warp

Objectively false. The Eldar abandoned their gods as imaginary figures and became secular hedonists.

>>50417540
I was actually going to respond properly but you dont know the fluff or you are trolling. Either way I cant be bothered Carnac.

>>50417520
What I don't understand is your stupidity. If the Emperor had the ability to stop the psychic evolution, then he would have. He can't.

You know, instead of painstaking guiding the evolution only to get rid of it complete the first change he got.

Humanity's psychic evolution is not salvation. It's the doom of mankind. Sure you might get resistant humans but eventually they will meet the fate of the Eldar. That's what the Emperor was saying.

>>50417534
You trying to force a plothole where there is none.

>>50417540
Dark Eldar are still very much psychic in some way. It is how they feed on the suffering of others. It's just that they don't actively use any psychic ability because the barrier between the webway and the warp isn't that resilient, which led to catastrophic daemonic invasions into commorragh in the past. Hence the ban on any use of psykers or psychic powers.

>>50417551
You mean you conceded because you are wrong. The fluff is right there. The Emperor wanted to cut off humanity connection to the Warp once and for all.

Also the Emperor who knows about the psychic evolution is basically saying humanity is fucked.>>50417417. Hostory is going to repeat itself. Humanity will fall and something new will take its place.

The Tau RISE

This is just as well. My time is growing short.

Has anyone actually seen a Day of Revelations Blood Angels list succeed?

I'm trying to do one, but getting list writers block.

>>50417573
No Carnac you dont know the fluff and you latch on to small out of context quotes then refuse to see the other side of the argument. Its not fun or conductive. Theres a reason we all hate you.

>>50417558
>Dark Eldar are still very much psychic in some way

The Dark Eldar developed their thirst due to Slaanesh sucking on their souls. It's not really a psychic ability.

>barrier between the webway and the warp isn't that resilient,

Actually, barring compromised/damaged sections, it's pretty strong. Also it can be fixed and the sections that were breached can be sealed off.

>which led to catastrophic daemonic invasions into commorragh in the past.

All the Dark City daemon invasions, that I know of, were caused by Dark Eldar themselves bringing trouble to their city.

With the only exception being Khaine's Gate

>>50417591
Your side is wrong, though.

And it's not out of context. see >>50417508

You're just mad that your headcanon was disproved

>>50417619
Just fuck off already. You are such an unlikable piece of shit. I will never understand how someone could waste as much time as you have just to be a dick. I know you dont even stand by your points because you change them constantly. You are literally the worst thing about /tg/.

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>>50417605
Did you even read my comment ? Yes the DE's need to feed on suffering is caused by Slaanesh and not psychic ability ... but they way they slake that thirst is, which is what I typed.

You're just being obnoxious.

>>50417637
I don't have to be likable to be right, though. And being right feels so good as is being a Chaosfag..

Victory dance ensues
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxXfHxceMg4&t=7450s

>>50417647
"are still very much psychic"

But it's not. It's just Slaanesh working through them and not some inborn psychic ability. That's the point I am hammering through. If Slaanesh wasn't thing and they acted the same way, they be blunts.

>>50417676
>Eldar are around for 60 million years
>Their psyker genes atrophy within 2000 of Slaanesh's birth
No.

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>>50417676
>Blames others for having head canon
>Claims own head canon as facts

This thread has gone to shit

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>>50416008

>>50417778
Carnac. What else needs to be said.

>>50417692
>>Their psyker genes atrophy within 2000 of Slaanesh's birth

But it did.

>>50417758
You want me to post the lore that says Dark Eldar cannot into psychic powers? Alright. Justa sec.

>>50417827
>ADB writes new book
>Carnac immediately jumps on any thread talking about it
Is ADB Carnac?
Yes.

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>in the webway
>in the webway
>there'll be no psykers or daemons
>just the glory of humans
>in the webwaaaaaay

>>50417875
Found it.

>Unlike their craftworld brethren, the Dark Eldar are not psychic. They do not have Farseers in their midst and actively avoid using psykers themselves – for they do not wish to draw the attentions of the Warp powers that are constantly seeking to devour them. Bereft of any type of precognitive warnings, the Dark Eldar rely on the speed and surprise of their attack to lead them to victory and a rich supply of new slaves. However, the Dark Eldar are rapacious and arrogant to an extreme. When, on occasion, their plans go awry and their surprise assault is welcomed by ready and determined resistance, the Dark Eldar rarely fade from a fight. This is very much unlike their more fickle kin, but the thrill of combat and the draw of bloodlust is powerful in the Dark Eldar. To them, the call to slaughter on the battlefield is no different than the siren call of the bloody and cruel gladiatorial games that are so popular in Commorragh.

-The 7th ED rulebook

So under 2000 years, a potent psychic race was rendered not psychic just by not using their psychic abilities and killing their most gifted.

>>50417880
Actually, I am pissed at ADB for the way he wrote his book. However, he won me over in the Afterward when he subtly nudged at the "Blood Raven = Thousand Sons" crowd as being antithetical to what makes 40K great.

>>50417895
The grass is always greener
In somebody else's lake
You dream about going into the warp
But that is a big mistake
Just look at the Imperium around you
Right here under the Emperor
Such wonderful things surround you
What more is you lookin' for?

In the webway
In the webway
Custodian it's better
No Tzeentchian fetters
True as I say
Out in the warp daemons play
Out of my light they slave away
No Nurglette bloating
To me all men devoting
In the webway

>>50417924
>Between you and me? I find the idea of a single, objective truth for any 40K mystery a little tedious.
This after he proudly states:
>The war is over. Humanity has lost. Warhammer 40,000 – in all its Gothic, towering, Cyclopean, decrepit, doomed, rotting Byzantine majesty – has taken its first irrevocable step.
What a monumental chucklefuck.

I don't care anymore.

Emperor is a guy who manipulated events on a galactic scale so that he could watch his tiny plastic guys beat up other tiny plastic guys forever, from the vantage point of his comfy chair. End.

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Here we go /hhg/ my fully painted Dorn...
until he actually gets a model

>>50417924
I'd really like to know how DE revitalize themselves with emotions and souls of others, store and torture daemons and the souls of psykers, siphon souls from bodies, etc.

>the "Blood Raven = Thousand Sons" crowd as being antithetical to what makes 40K great.

Why?

>>50418018
I still don't get why he needed to do the crusade at all if the webway project was everything.

>>50418024
I'm sorry to be so harsh but, basically, ya blew it anon.

>>50418024
>can still see grey plastic
whew lad

>>50418039
Because the guy who has guaranteed that chaos always wins everything for ever thinks there should be some mystery.

>>50418039
Look at anon'ss post >>50417993

He doesn't like mysteries to have neat answers.

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>>50418024

>>50417924
>actively avoid using psykers themselves – for they do not wish to draw the attentions of the Warp powers that are constantly seeking to devour them.

This would heavily imply they could if they wanted to.

>>50418047
>I still don't get why he needed to do the crusade at all if the webway project was everything.

I guess I have to copy-paste everything about he Webway project from the novel at some point.

The Emperor explains this in the novel. He wanted to gather up all of humanity. Either make all the human civilizations and worlds join him or just exterminate them.

This is done because even if single human world or civilization exists outside his control, then they risk to bring the doom of all mankind.

>>50418063
Even blunt humans can become psykers using forbidden lore and sorcerous rituals.

>>50418024
The armour is fine, the chainsword is THICC and that head, by the Emperor.

>>50418087
to be fair the armor is to monotone
looks like he just used 1 shade of metal, washed it and called it a day

>>50418047
i'm a shit painter, that's why i proxy

>>50418075
>This is done because even if single human world or civilization exists outside his control, then they risk to bring the doom of all mankind.

Why?

Getting some Golden Path vibes here.

>>50418063
Dark Eldar are psykers because they can transition to being craftworld eldar or vise versa. All Eldar have psychic potential DE just dont use it Because of Slaanesh and there lifstyle. Also Vect had/has to hunt psykers down in Commoragh to protect the city.

>>50418104
If it works, no reason to overcomplicate it.

>>50418058
>>50418057
How is that anymore concrete than any other "chapter X is totes loyalist Y" theory? How are fan theories or believing in one version ruining the game? Is he just mad that people like what he doesn't like?

Maybe GW should stop dropping hints, like the TS cult dedicated to divination (like BR) with the icon of a raven and named Corvidae (bird family into which ravens belong to).

>>50418153
Actually, he is pissed about the heavy hinting about the Blood Raven heritage. He doesn't want it confirmed. He tried to stop it in the HH meetings.

He wants it to remain that. Just a theory, not a fact.

>>50418110
They will explode into daemons without him.

>>50418153
There is no worse heresy than wrongfun ! :^)

>>50418174
>hints = fact

Is he mentally retarded?

>>50418024
Give the gold a wash

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>>50418150
it doesn't work though
the armor looks boring and flat
he could at the very least give the raised detail a different tone
and in my personal opinion the gold is to brownish, it's fine as a base to be layered over but to me this looks like the colour you would keep in the recesses but it's all over the armor instead

>>50418174
>Actually, he is pissed about the heavy hinting about the Blood Raven heritage. He doesn't want it confirmed. He tried to stop it in the HH meetings.
>He wants it to remain that. Just a theory, not a fact.
I reckon it's because it's the only time that any number of people chose the Emperor over Chaos that A) can't be attributed to Imperial propaganda and B) are still in active service 10 thousand years later so the can't say the Imperium killed them later to show how bad they.
That we have any HH hints towards, looking at you Red Scorpions.

>>50418135
>All Eldar have psychic potential DE just dont use it

It's noted that most of them actively suppress their psychic ability through drugs or surgeries. Some of these mist be reversible, others won't be. Also, be aware that the novel which featured a Dark-to-Craftworld-Eldar transition was written before the DE got their big fluff reboot in 5th edition. It's quite possible that the author made assumptions which would later turn out to be incorrect.

>>50418190
They weren't as much hinting as hitting you over the head with it. Graham McNeil apologized for writing it in a way that made it so obvious to connectt he dots between the TS and BR.

>>50418209
so *they can't say the Imperium killed them later to show how bad they *are.

Should the crests on BoP's sargant's heads be right-to-left or forward-to-back?
Imperial Fists, if it helps.

>>50418212
>which would later turn out to be incorrect.
Perhaps. Wither way that makes the most sense to me. Evolution just doesnt happen that fast.

>>50418024
the model was so nice until you ruined it...

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Why didn't the Cabal just fly Magnus to Terra?

>>50418285
The Cabal wanted the Emperor to lose.

>>50418285
Because they're taking the hobbits to Isengard.

>>50418285

Why didn't Magnus just teleport Prospero into the Solar System to find out what was going down.

>>50418285
Why didn't Magnus just do what he was told?

>>50418124
That's was Emps's thing for a while. He is based on Leto after all.

>>50418510
Perfect. Thank you.

All these shitty black library retcons that gut the emotional and narrative core of the story.

Is it even worth getting into 30k if this is the cannon? I'd kind of rather just play Sigmar.

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>>50419050
>Is it even worth getting into 30k if this is the cannon?
If ya ignore BL than yes.

>>50419115
But BL is writing the story?...How do I ignore the story of a narrative based historic wargame? by wacfagging forever?

>>50419257
Only read the Forgeworld fluff.

>>50419257
Same way you ignore everything else BL writes.

Hell, I don't even follow FW's stuff, I just look at art and fluff left and right and pick what I like when making armies. I don't care if mode X isn't kosher in modern terms, I can dig up the art/fluff I based its design on.

>>50419257
Forge World is your friend.

>>50419257
black library isn't the first place to make horus heresy fluff

index astartes is best heresy

>>50410068
>Dreadnought falls out the sky
>wakes up by itself
>talks to one of the tetrarchs
>shoots some WB
he was a cool guy

>>50410149
>The unfamiliarity of it made me want to shoot him
>I consciously resisted
>yes we last thought a species that thought there was power in betrayal
>isn't it funny how we're the only good relationship between our legions
>PLASMA BOLT TO THE FACE

>>50418024
Strip it.

>>50419371
Hell, Rick Priestly originally envisioned the entire thing as a parody on Paradise Lost.

>>50416983
pls respond

>>50419457
The Stormlord is very popular as a super-heavy transport with marine shredding main guns.
The rest are pretty good for their points, though the Fellblade probably beats the basic Baneblade for pure offensive oomph.