Warhammer 40k General

>>50404205
First for Chaos

Mostly Lorgar.

First for Grimnar beating Magnus with his bare hands.

>>50404205
Third for OP Pink Horrors.

I'm not buying anything new for 40k until 8th hits
Not after last time

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>something good and new actually comes out for chaos marines
>endless cavalcade of crying, whinging and shitposting because it didn't live up to their ridiculously high expectations
4th for 650 points

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So I've heard some people around this general mention that Admech are getting some new stuff March 2017.

I googled and I was able to find absolutely zero information regarding that rumor.

Can someone please link a source? Or was it just all bullshit?

>>50404233
So what are the benefits for the T-Sons?
>>50404238
You're an idiot

>>50404238
Fires of Cyraxus.

8th for Khorne

>>50404224
>guys
>hey guys
>what if we took Pink Horrors, already one of the best troop units in the game, and made it so that they split into twice as many units that are almost as good as they are when they die
>and, what if, the newly created models also split into twice as many wounds of lesser models when they too die
Shillposters and retards will still try to claim that things are going to get better.

40K is in its End Times death spiral. All those rumors claiming that we aren't getting Sigmar'ed lied. They won't be fully torpedoing the universe, but the game is going to be the miniature equivalent of go-fish within the year.

So let me get this straight. Khorne considers Logan Grimnar to be his most hated mortal enemy because he enslaved a portion of his power within the Axe of Morkai.

But Khorne was gleefully laughing when Logan cleaved Magnus using the khornate power within the axe.

What the fuck is going on? Magnus and Khorne on the same side. They are allies The pacts between the gods demand corporation.

>>50404253
>>50404256
FFFFFFUCK

>>50404233
Thousand Sons and Scarab Occult are both dog-shit, tax-tier units.

>>50404230
CoolStoryBro.jpg

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>>50404233
>wahhhhh GW doesn't pay enough attention to us even though we're the second most updated faction in the game behind Imperials
>wahhhhh our units are only strong instead of OP
>wahhhhhhhhhhhh we can't take hordes of terminators
>wahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh we're battle brothers with one of the strongest codexes in the game and can also ally with necrons and tau, two other strong codexes

CSM players please end yourselves.

>>50404259

>Magnus and Khorne on the same side.

No they're not. Khorne fucking HATES Tzeentch.

>>50404259
Why did Ahriman not stab Magnus in the back like a real bro.

>>50404275
That's like your opinion, man.

>>50404284
I'm getting pissed off with these people and I play CSM.

>>50404259
Khornedog hates Tzeentch, he likes to see him fail.

>>50404289
Yes, they are. The Chaos Gods for the first time since the HH, united their forces for another go at the galaxy.

Khorne is celebrating the failure of one of his allies!

In the IG regiment generator, what constitudes a siege regiment? What would a guerilla specialized one look like?

>>50404275
So we spam sorcerers, screamers and spawns? Any word on formations?

>>50404259
>What the fuck is going on? Magnus and Khorne on the same side.
ahahahaha what

Much like tzeentch was probably pissing himself laughing at khorne during Armageddon, khorne probably watches the thousand sons fail at everything to relax.

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>tfw no bolter option for Tzaangors

>>50404318

lol what even is the great game

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How was your weekend lads?

>>50404253
>>50404245
well excuuuuuuuuse me, princess

>>50404342
What did I do? I just told you it's name.

>tfw the armies i like the fluff of, i don't like the gameplay of and vice versa

why live

>>50404341
Pretty good. I played my first game with my Genestealer Cult and it really came down to the wire. I lost the game because one lucky ork was able to survive a whole squad's worth of lasgun fire.

>>50404275
See
>>50404285

>>50404291
Right?
magnus pops into the house and Ahriman just decides to up and leave the webway and come hang out?

>>50404289
AZARIAH KYRAS DISAGREES

>>50404354
IKTFB

Trying to decide on my first army. Constantly flip flopping between Tyranids or Admech.

>>50404327
Educate yourself, bro. Assuming you can stomach nauseating amounts of shilling.

https://www.frontlinegaming.org/2016/11/26/wrath-of-magnus-review-formations-and-detachments/
https://www.frontlinegaming.org/2016/11/26/war-zone-fenris-wrath-of-magnus-review-dataslates-and-special-rules/

>tldr
>none of the formations make Scarab Occult or Thousand Sons into even somewhat viable units
>Sorcerer spam formations bolted onto either KDK or R&H will be the only viable builds coming out of the Thousand Sons half of the book
>Tzeentch Daemons are now fully Eldar tier in terms of just completely disregarding any notion of balance or mutual fun
>ironically, ITC are the chosen fan representatives of GW, despite them clearly still not caring about balance or playtesting
I'm guessing they're trying to bring Frontling Gaming into the fold to try to prevent them from going their own way come 8th edition.

>>50404362
Pics? Anon now i must see!!

>>50404284
Thousand sons is FUCKIG, DOGSHIT, I can't believe I let myself be hyped up by this release.

It doesn't matter how many updates you get if none of them are anything actually worth buying!

I may as well just finally sell my fucking models over this disappointment, or maybe il just keep using the regular marine codex seeing as it's still better in every single way.

>>50404351
Like I said, he's an idiot

>>50404362
And my game versus tyranids in the original pic was fun as shit too. It was against a long time friend and the guy I played my first game against. Only got to turn two because Tyranid movement phases are long as shit but it was enjoyable. Got more pics if anyone wants to see. Took a whole bunch of them.

>>50404395
>wahhhh my 5th update in two years made my army better but not as good as I wanted it to be wahhhhhhhhhh

>>50404365
No, fuck you. Even under optimal conditions, Thousand Sons and Scarab Occult are extremely overpriced and ineffectual. We already know what the formation/detachment benefits are, and we already know they do fuck-all to help out Rubricae.

If they had at least done ANYTHING to make Thousand Sons semi-viable I'd give them the benefit of the doubt. But they didn't. Instead they buffed Pink Horrors into the stratosphere.

>>50404257
If end times means, i will finally get plastic sisters i will gladly welcome death...

>>50404233
Can I keep complaining if the Chaos God I worship is Slaanesh, so not only it wasn't him/her the one that was updated, but is also the most unlikely one to be updated, if at all?

Hooooly fucking shit, as a TS player I have to vocally apologize. I'm not part of these whiners.

TSons have been firmly entrenched in Shit-tier for over a decade and this book actually made the fucking army fluffy with tons of flavour and fun and able to stand up to mid-tier on its own. If anything I'm now worried I will have to tone it down and self-police my psychic phase for casual play.

People complaining cause the book made us better in every way. Be thankful we didn't get WORSE like what happened to Orks.

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So now that TSons are confirmed mid-tier at best, what is the next hope for chaos?

>>50404453
Black Crusade series book 2.

Actually Scarab Occult seem perfectly fine?

Tzeentchminators with better guns for standard Terminator prices... Need to take a 90 point Sorcerer, but he seems a decent enough Sorcerer model.

>>50404394
I didn't take any photos unfortunately, but I'll give you the run down.

We were playing objectives. I drew first blood on a squad of grots and killed off a trukk, boy squad, and some meganobz. However he managed to take out all three of my hybrid squads and my purestrains.

It came down to the wire because although we both ended up getting linebreaker, he had one more objective secured than me, which was guarded by a squad I had whittled down to a single ork. So on the last turn I hit him with about eight lasgun rounds but none of them wounded.

Overall, I'm pretty happy with the list, especially the look on my opponent's face every time I challenged his Nob with my Patriarch.

>>50404453
Waiting your fucking turn and letting Orks, SoB, Tyranids, Dark Eldar, and I'm sure another faction or two that I'm forgetting get fixed first.

>>50404479
How do GSC play?

Trying to decide on my first army, trying to decide between alien hybrids or robot hybrids.

>>50404284
>can also ally with necrons and tau, two other strong codexes
wow, you clearly have no fucking idea what CSM complain about.

they don't want to be powergamer wankers like yourself, allying in meme factions just for a power trip even though it makes no sense.

What CSM are bitching about is pretty much the same thing vanilla marines have also been bitching about, that marines themselves are shit now and melt to everything because of powercreep - which is partly why the bitching is eternal. This isn't something GW will ever fix.

Marine statlines being shit now permanantly condemns CSM to being a shit faction and Vanilla marines to only win with bikes/ free vehicles and grav.

CSM also don't seem to understand that a new codex would only mean bad things for the faction.

GW no longer include options for things they don't make models for. Instead of expanding the list of chaos goodies like you want, they'd only either keep it the same or shrink it.

Take Genestealer Cults for instance. If that was a FW dex it would have at least 5 times the options it does because Genestealer cults have a fucking huge toolbox of shit to work with. The GW dex only includes shit they made models for though so it's shallow as fuck.

>>50404449
They aren't T-sons players.

They're generic chaos players that want a codex that lets them masturbate over ork and nid players.

Are you excited, brother? I am

>>50404425
We don't know how many units it takes in the formations to get the full bonuses. For all you know, it may be easy taking combat squads of Rubrics to get re-rolls of 1s easily. Slap a blessing on them and boom, you got 3++ rerolling 1s. Squads of AP4 flamers in Rhinos.

And you're complaining that Scarab Occult are terrible when regular CSM Terminators are cheaper by single-digit amounts yet for that difference you're getting AP3 combi-bolters and assault cannons, 2-shot krak missiles and a sorcerer sergeant? What the fuck did you want them to do, give you a fucking blowjob on a 2+?

>>50404453
>mid-tier
Low tier.

Yet another shitty codex for chaos.

>>50404496
>they don't want to be powergamer wankers like yourself

Yet their newest update makes them mid-tier and they bitch and moan anyway.

u wot m8

>>50404512
CSM generalists vs TSons players.

TSons players are overjoyed here.

>>50404507

lol fucking no

It's official kids, the codex isn't Taudar tier, therefore every Chaos army is basically SoB.

>>50404507
what the fuck are you talking about, for Daemons this is a great book

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>>50404500
The fuck do you think?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXdkbWYZP1g
Hell fucking yeah

>>50404501
You have to max out the formation to get the benefits. Have fun taking 9x Scarab Occult and 9x Thousand Sons to get those 1's rerolls.

Regular CSM terminators would suck ass if they had to be taken in 5 man squads as well. Honestly, the Scarab Occult were always going to be fucked. I guess I should just be happy they didn't end up being 71 points.

No seriously, why do people bring up grounding as a tactic against FMCs? Not only is it unreliable, it doesn't actually make them any easier to shoot.

>>50404453
actually they're probably top tier if you let Chaos demons in the TSons book carry you, as always.

Next hope is that they accidentally make some good rules in the new book coming round xmas (or was that just a rumour?).

My bet is they accidentally make Nurgle really good.

Nurgle is always the only thing that can stand against power creep because it's basis is tougher dudes and poisoned weapons.

>>50404543
What, you mean Traitor Legions, out on the 10th?

T-Sons are great and all.

How tall is a Skitarii Dunestrider?

I thought the GW webstore updated at 10 AM. Is the North America site not on Eastern Time?

>tfw wanted to start a tzeentch daemon army
are they only stupid-tier of powergamed? i don't want to massively have to gimp myself but as long as i don't have to field very specific units to be broken i'll deal with it i guess

>>50404574
Don't summon spam and you're fine.

Just leave it here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvuVWJszF_A
Autors about Sparse Dogs are fucked: Wrath of Strawberry.

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What army do I play to fuck with people?

>>50404494
My experience with them is kind of limited, i didn't use any of the vehicles because it was only a small game.

I'd say they're good as an infantry based army as long as you can get used to hit and run tactics, because your biggest advantage is getting the drop on an enemy squad and then skipping off board before they can hit back.

If you're getting into Stealer cults then try and build around one or two of the codex formations, I only got as far as I did today because my subterranean uprising let me drop in right on top of objectives without scattering. And for close combat the Patriarch with two familiars was an absolute beast, he had a full squad of 20 stealers with him against a boyz squad and he ended up racking up more than half the kills himself, especially with some great debuff maledictions.

I think GC have a good mix of quick movement with sheer power.

>>50404512
they're only mid tier because of everything in it that ISN'T marines.

Literally, taking actual rubrics is still pointless, daemons still carry you, now you have another troop unit that's way more viable than rubrics - Tzaangors!

Even Scarab termies ruined the one thing that chaos termies are good for - taking combi-meltas and hunting tanks.

In-fact, pink horrors aside, the strongest part of the dex is probably the possibility of using a stronger codex's weapons against them - because they have no fucking strong weapons of their own.

Also, imperial armies can completely counter everything they got with a 40 point inquisitor or just by using some Sisters of Silence.

>>50404606
Tzeentch Daemons. 99 Horror Warp Flame Host, Herald with an Exalted Locus of Creation.

>>50404606
Chaos Demons of Tzeentch.

>>50404587
oh it's that easy? cool

>>50404631

You mean...anti-psyker items are strong against AN ENTIRE ARMY OF PSYKERS?

Unheard of. Just came out of the blue. Jeez.

>>50404638
I don't mean fuck with them in that way.

I mean moving their units for them, debuffing shit, making them hit attack each other, shit like that.

>>50404660
GSC has that.

>>50404658
You could beat this army with a single unit with 2+ armour saves and a 40 point inquisitor

>>50404631
>Even Scarab termies ruined the one thing that chaos termies are good for - taking combi-meltas and hunting tanks.

This is what i mean about waiting to have the codex. The articles did not make any mention of anything stock you can take. for all we know, we can take those options still.

>>50404606
Tzeentch Daemons for power dice, CSM Sorcs for telepathy powers. Includes things like not allowing your opponent to make actions with certain units, making one of your units more or less unkillable and making your opponents units hit themselves.

Geomortis allows you to move a piece of terrain, but is generally weaker and has less fun stuff. Moving a giant piece of terrain could be hilarious though.

The only way Scarab Occult will be good is if they can take Power/Chain Fists and/or non-sword Power Weapons. Otherwise they won't really have any teeth in close combat.

They'll need an HQ with the Jump Book, and be extremely reliant on good buffs to get them stuck in. I figure an Exalted rolling on Biomancy/Telepathy with the relic Daemon Weapon and the squad leader with the Jump Book and also rolling on Biomancy and/or Telepathy should make for a decent deathstar.

>>50404660
Freakshow lists, with a few Death Jesters will do that.

Daemons of Tzeentch(changeling and blue scribes) will fight aboard The Rock, GK and DA will pursue them, meanwhile Magnus will Attack Fenris.

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Imperial necron-worshipping techno-cultists.

Enhanced cyborg men who work for their Necron Overlord, who basically keeps them around for the lulz.

Would use the GSC rules, models themselves would be kitbashes of IG heads/GSC bodies/Necron weapons (Neophytes), Skitarii Vanguards/Necrons(Acolytes), Skitarii Ruststalkers/Infiltrators/Necrons(Purestrain Genestealers)

Magus would be cyborg techwizards who got their hands on a Staff of Light

Patriarch would be an eternally pissed-off an super annoyed Necron Lord who the Overlord sent to watch over his pet project ("but you're not allowed to kill the dumb mon'keigh, no matter what they do!") as a punishment.

>>50404453
Death Guard. T5, and T6 shenanigans across the board.

>>50404507

>low tier

not with a character like magnus in it its fucking not

the crimson king makes this book mid tier on his fucking own

>>50404747
>not allowing your opponent to make actions with certain units

What power is this pls?

>>50404465

he can roll of of eleven different tables and he's ML2

>>50404816

Like I said, decent.

Honestly the exact number of tables you can roll on is fairly irrelevant. What matters is if you have at least one good table.

>>50404784
cool

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Magnus seems the kind of overpowered model that's not even just unfun to play against, but unfun to play with.

Basically to kill him you need either really good luck and an incompetent opponent, or a Pylon.

(My god, skyfire triple shot D weapon is actually useful for once)

>Tzaangors: ported over form Age of Sigmar, this light infantry unit is pretty cool! Tzeentch armies can be very light on models, and that is where Tzaangors come in. Rocking a Guardsman statline but with WS and T 4, they’re not bad. The 6++ save is a bit rough, but that is not a big deal: they’re cannon fodder and that extra 16.67% of durability does add up with big units. They come stock with either 2 close combat weapons, or with an Autopistol and Chainsword. One of them can be upgraded to a Twistbray (Sarge).


>At 70pts for the unit of 10, and the ability to go up to units of 30, these guys are great for board control, taking objectives and forming the grist of an all Tzeentch Deathstar. With a 6++ and T4, they’re significantly more durable than your average light infantry unit. I think these guys are great for upping your model count and adding some durability to a Tzeentch army. Honestly, these will probably for the default troop choice in most Tzeetch armies that don’t utilize other detachments for that role. Objective Secured is still a tournament winning ability.

>>50404836

yeah, the scarab occult are fine, its just the CSM being massive crybabies as usual

>Magnus the Red

He rocks WS and BS 7, Strength 8, Toughness 7, 7 Wounds and Initiative, 6 Attacks, Leadership 10 and a 4+ save. He also weighs in at 650pts, base, so not cheap. He’s got a host of special rules:

Adamantium Will
Daemon of Tzeentch
Deep Strike
Eternal Warrior
Fearless
Fleet
It Will Not Die
Psyker level 5
Veterans of the Long War
Unearthly Power: harnesses Warp Charge on a 2+
The Lord of Flux Warlord Trait
Omniscient Eye: Magnus has LoS to every model on the table when determining the targets of his psychic powers.


Knows the Gaze of Magnus ability and all of the Tzeentch and Change powers. This is his biggest weakness as the powers he has access to are more limited. Gaze of Magnus will be the go to in most cases, but summoning in more units is always awesome, and a second option for a D shot isn’t bad, either.

His wargear is similarly impressive: The Blade of Magnus is Strength user, AP 2, Force, Soul Blaze and Transmogrify (which can turn models into Chaos Spawn). The Crown of Crimson Kings gives Magnus a 4++ and lets him ignore Perils

>>50404904
>>50404923
we already know, fuck off

>>50404904


They'll be the default troop choice for whiners who don't want to take 1ksons in their 1ksons list and accept being lower end of mid tier.

People actually constructing a semi-fluffy 1ksons list will presumably look at "Shit I've spent nearly 300 on terminators, almost 1000 on rubrics just to get two units of 10 in rhinos and a fuck ton on sorcerers. Plus I obviously can't go without my painstakingly converted rubric dreadnought... Guess I don't really have any points to spend on beakie beastmen."

>>50404755
>freakshow list

pls explain

Is there a generic bike formation for CSM to use with the new T-Sons?

Won't lie I had a small hope for biker rubrics

>>50404955

I don't think there's really any way to simulate Biker Rubrics?

I mean, you could make bikers with a 6++ and regular bolter ammo, but that's not representative in the slightest.

>>50404933
Not those guys, but kill yourself. Not everyone has been refreshing this shitshow of a general for the last few hours and some people might just be waking up in the Western US and might like to not dig through archives to find this shit.

Meanwhile you burn through the posts in this thread because you are a) a useless NEET who has been following this shit since it first leaked. b) a spoiled Imperial player who doesn't give a shit about Chaos releases. c) a butthurt WAACfag CSM player who probably doesn't even care about T-Sons but just wanted to have some power armoured cheese. Or d) an all around whiney faggot.

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Adepta Sororitas (Combined arms detachment)
1999/2000
@HQ [ 7 ]

Saint Celestine (135pt.)


Canoness (125pt.) Inferno pistol; Evisecrator; Rosarius


Ministorum Priest (40pt.) The Litanies of Faith
Ministorum Priest (30pt.) The Book of St. Lucius
Ministorum Priest (40pt.) Plasma gun
Ministorum Priest (25pt.)
Ministorum Priest (25pt.)

@Troops [ 6 ]

10x - Battle Sister Squad (150pt.)
> 1x - Sister Superior Plasma pistol
> 1x - Battle Sister Flamer
> 1x - Battle Sister Heavy flamer
> 7x - Battle Sister


10x - Battle Sister Squad (150pt.)
> 1x - Sister Superior Power weapon
> 1x - Battle Sister Flamer
> 1x - Battle Sister Heavy flamer
> 7x - Battle Sister


10x - Battle Sister Squad (150pt.)
> 1x - Sister Superior Power weapon
> 1x - Battle Sister Flamer
> 1x - Battle Sister Heavy flamer
> 7x - Battle Sister


10x - Battle Sister Squad (135pt.)
> 1x - Sister Superior
> 1x - Battle Sister Flamer
> 1x - Battle Sister Heavy flamer
> 7x - Battle Sister


10x - Battle Sister Squad (135pt.)
> 1x - Sister Superior
> 1x - Battle Sister Flamer
> 1x - Battle Sister Heavy bolter
> 7x - Battle Sister


10x - Battle Sister Squad (135pt.)
> 1x - Sister Superior Storm Bolter
> 1x - Battle Sister Multi-melta
> 8x - Battle Sister Boltgun

@Fast attack [ 3 ]

5x - Seraphim Squad (110pt.)
> 1x - Seraphim Superior Power sword
> 1x - Seraphim Hand flamer (x2)
> 3x - Seraphim


6x - Dominion Squad (198pt.)
> 1x - Veteran Dominion Superior
> 1x - Dominion Simulacrum imperialis
> 4x - Dominion Meltagun
> 1x - Immolator Twin-linked multi-melta


6x - Dominion Squad (153pt.)
> 1x - Veteran Dominion Superior Melta bombs
> 4x - Dominion Storm Bolter
> 1x - Dominion
> 1x - Rhino

@Heavy support [ 2 ]

7x - Retributor Squad (124pt.)
> 1x - Retributor Superior
> 4x - Retributor Heavy bolter
> 2x - Retributor


7x - Retributor Squad (139pt.)
> 1x - Retributor Superior Plasma pistol
> 4x - Retributor Multi-melta
> 2x - Retributor

>>50405004
u mad, homo?

>>50405004
>being this american

>>50404974
...yeah,

Ah well

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>>50405010
This is what I will field in 10 days
I know this is not the list /tg/ waacfaggots would run but it's what I have for now.
>mfw I only have 10 days to paint all this

>>50405024
>Power armoured
>American
Pick one and only one.
It's like you fags forget that you spell shit with unnecessary added vowels.

>>50405035

You could run jump rubrics as Warp Talons I guess?

And yes, I know, Warp Talons aren't good (I wouldn't go so far as to call them shit like some people do: They cost less than a raptor with twin lightning claws would and come with an invulnerable save. I think they get overly slammed because people are dumb enough to try to use their Deep Strike gimmick instead of just running them up the board, and CSM lack enough saturation of similar targets for them not to be a no brainer for target priority, getting them gunned down quick) but I mean, are rubrics genuinely good?

>>50404946
>People actually constructing a semi-fluffy 1ksons list will presumably look at "Shit I've spent nearly 300 on terminators, almost 1000 on rubrics just to get two units of 10 in rhinos and a fuck ton on sorcerers. Plus I obviously can't go without my painstakingly converted rubric dreadnought... Guess I don't really have any points to spend on beakie beastmen."
And will shake hands with these people and gladly play against them with my TS sect.

>"My psychic dong is bigger than your psychic dong"

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Alright so I'm trying to decide on my fuck-with-people army.

Win or lose, my goal is to do shit that makes my opponent go "man that's fucking bullshit"

Thanks to suggestions from you guys, I've narrowed it down between GSC, for games of whack-a-mole and a bit of psychic shenanigans, or a harlequin heavy Eldar list, for laughing clown trolling.

What should I pick, /40kg/?

>>50405118
>>50404974
>>50404955
the leaks say that you can use CSM detahcments and formations with TS rules so long as you follow certain specifics. This stuff might be better explained and explanded upon in the Traitor Legions book, but it would be lovely if you could align CSM with any of the Legions and grant them access to their rules and wargear. Essentially you'd be allowed to make shit like Rubric Warp Talons with access to AP3 bolters and flamers.

>>50404946
>almost 1000 on rubrics
a unit of ten ain't 500 points, is it? They're closer to 250

Five terminators, twenty-thirty rubrics, an assortment of sorcerers and some vehicles, beastmen or daemons wouldn't be a horrible 1500 point list.

>>50405109
Go suck French cock somewhere else.

>>50405135
Necrons. Don't even try to kill the enemy, just march up the table and don't die.

>>50405146

It's already been explained: All you really get is free VotLW, a buff to your invulnerable -if and only if- you've been hit by a blessing this turn, and hatred space wolves.

So no, it's not only not turning units into rubric versions of that unit, it's not even particularly great buffs.

>>50404341
Still sick.

>>50405146
To add, essentially you follow the rules and turn any detachment into Faction: Thousand Sons. So any rule or whathaveyou that affects only models of Faction: Thousand Sons also affects them. Makes sense to me, this is how I understand it.

>>50405166
You're missing the point. I want to actively fuck with people. Not passively troll them because I'm playing a bullshit no-fun army.

>>50405135

murderclowns are hard as fuck to play with no margin for error, requiring more than a little luck to succeed as well as perfect play.

when everything comes together though, you will never be able to forget the look on your opponents face as his entire army is dismantled from the top down by an army of cartwheeling circus clowns

genestealer cults are a lot more consistent and the better army because of that, but I don't imagine they would be as funny to win with

>>50405151

They're about 250 points for 5. Less than 500 for 10 because no second sorcerer, but you might make that back on flamers and the soul autocannon thing.

Plus rhino.

>>50404527
Mah, that's some solid as fuck Neo-egyptian tunes right there.

>>50405151
Ten man unit of Thousand Sons with a Rhino is 300 points. 300 fucking points. You can buy a Wraithknight or 1.5 riptides or most of a demi-company for that cost.

Thousand Sons (the unit) even with everything offered in Wrath of Magnus are complete and utter shit.

>>50404606
GSC

"You're at risk of being banned from casual games entirely at your LGS, purely for the sake of how insanely overpowered your codex is. Play Eldar at your own risk!"

Was I better off playing Tau as a first army? I don't think I'm ever going to take 40k too seriously, I'll just be playing casual games. Do people really cry about top tier this much?

>>50405146
Yeah what you are describing might be the case, but it would definitely not result in you making rubric warp talons, havocs, bikers, raptors etc. The TS "Legion Tactics" are 1) +1 invuln when targeted by a blessing. 2) mutual hatred with SW and 3) Rubrics are troops instead of elites.

>>50405223
>3++ invul Oblits
Bueno

>>50405211
>You can buy a Wraithknight or 1.5 riptides or most of a demi-company for that cost.

Okay sure, but bad comparison that weakens your position.

What can you buy in reasonably powered, good units for the cost of thousand sons in a rhino? Not in MAXIMUM SUPER CHEESE.

>>50405010
Why are you mixing weapon roles on

10x - Battle Sister Squad (135pt.)
> 1x - Sister Superior
> 1x - Battle Sister Flamer
> 1x - Battle Sister Heavy bolter
> 7x - Battle Sister

?

>>50405199
>They're about 250 points for 5
uh, no, I don't think that's the case

unless GW dramatically changed the points costs, 10 should be 265

>>50404947
Multiple -LD stacking units from DE,Harlies and CWE.
-2LD from a Hemlock
-2LD from Armour of Misery
-2LD from Mask of Secrets
-1LD from Freakish Spectacle
-2LD for one attack from Archangel of Pain
Leadership tests on 3d6 from Shadow Spectres
You take some Shadowseers/Farseers for Psychic Shriek, and instantly kill any model you like if you get Mirror of Minds and drop a model to 5LD or less.

>>50405223
Fair enough, but let's wait and see about any clarifications. You wouldn't have Rubric versions, but perhaps you can have access to their armoury. I was a bit disappointed its so few weapons (and didn't they say Rubrics will get melee versions?).

Traitor Legions' TS section might just a reprint but maybe we'll get even more shit.

>>50405190
Well, then I suggest necrons, with the character that steals your opponents vehicles.

>>50405235

If you blessing them, yes.

With all the mandatory rolls on the Tzeentch table your army is forced to do, how many spare blessings you got?

>>50405235
Damn straight. Might actually field my TS Oblits again. Had swapped them out for Fiends but we still haven't heard shit about vehicles. Markable vehicles?

>>50405243
Oh and -LD from Terrify/Horrify if you have Warlocks.

Are there any FW models which amount to a Chaos Razorback in effect? I really don't want to run half-empty rhinos for my rubrics all the time.

>>50405253
For oblits?

A pocket Diviner is pretty baller.

>>50405222
Who the fuck is saying they're going to ban you? Jesus christ what a bunch of cunts.

>>50405253
It's 1 roll per sorc, dude. The only dudes who are permanently locked into it are the basic-ass Rubric Sorcs. You're not a TS player if you don't field oodles of psykers.

>>50405209
Karl Sanders' shit is baller, m8. Check this out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wt5Mb74wBqM
Used to listen to this while doing conversion work on my dudes.

Fuck chaos fags are the biggest whiners.

>waaaah! We got huge OP buffs but not on the units we want!

Yeah because every marine player wants to take smashfucker and a dozen drop pods right? Every tau player wants to take nothing but riptides right? Every AdMech player wants to be locked into a war convo right?

Shut the fuck up. You got your overpowered toys like everyone else, if you want to ignore them to play a "fluffy" army then that's on you.

>>50405271
No.

Also, if you run the rubrics 9 strong +sorc the rhinos won't be half empty

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>>50404947

a freakshow list is a leadership bomb formed by putting together a haemonculus covens/harlequin army list and fucking with people using it.

the haemonculus detachment lowers the leadership of everyone within 12" by 1, combined with the innate leadership lowering tools of both the harlequins and the dark eldar (mask of secrets/armor of misery) allows you to take a necrons leadership down to 5 if you do it properly

then you hammer the shitters in with shrieker cannons and if you kill a model you force a morale test at -2, so necron warriors would be taking this test at leadership 7 at best and the tau at leadership 5

if they fail the test, they have to fall back.

AND YOU CHOOSE WHICH WAY THEY MOVE.

both armies also have a shit ton of attacks which roll off of leadership, and of course they all have fear.

so against none marine armies shit gets hilarious quickly

UK Fags, who is better to order Tsons from Wayland or Element? Or is someone else out there? Ideally tracked shipping as an option cause fuck the chance of my Magnus going "Missing".

>>50404946
Rubrics are 150 for 5, including Sorc. 23pts per model.

That's 265pts for 10. Are they buying 4 squads?

>>50405289
>Karl Sanders' shit is baller, m8.
Not a TSN player, just glad to find actually fitting music for various factions, so sick of "Skillex=Slaanesh" "HMKids are Orks"

>>50404527
what is this image from?

>>50405292
TSons fans are happy. CSM who expected the second coming of 3.5 are the ones whining.

>>50405297
With the LD penalty you can also lob in some pinning and hope to force even marines to cower in the rubble or even break and flee.

>>50405237
For three hundred fucking points? Two Leman Russ Battle Tanks. ~4.5 Wyverns. Two Veteran squads in Chimeras, with most of their special weapons. Throw some gear on the Sons, and you can have a Knight Titan for that same cost. Five Fire Dragons in a Wave Serpent with some Rangers to hold the backfield.

Thousand Sons are absurdly overpriced, and none of the formation/detachment benefits do much to really improve the unit.

Do you actually think Thousand Sons are even a remotely viable or fairly costed unit, or are you just bring contrarian?

>>50405293
>Also, if you run the rubrics 9 strong +sorc the rhinos won't be half empty

Yes, but I don't exactly need to apply 9 flamers and a hand flamer or 8 AP3 bolters, an AP3 bolt pistol and an AP3 assault cannon to a problem, do I?

5 man rubric squads do their job about as efficiently as it can be done by rubrics. Adding more is just sinking points.

Not a big gripe but I'm a bit disappointed the new Ahriman model doesn't have the silver oak leaf on the shoulderpad to remind him of his brother Ohrmuzd. They're clearly following a lot of Thousand Sons novel cues, so why not that one detail?

>>50405348
>Adding more is just
RESPECTING THE SACRED NUMBER

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>>50405343

>wyverns

>not completely fucking overpowered

>>50405304
Triple Helix are cheap as fuck if you don't mind waiting.

>>50405343
>Do you actually think Thousand Sons are even a remotely viable or fairly costed unit, or are you just bring contrarian?

Just getting you to fix your analogy is all. You did it there, so woo task accomplished.

Comparing to max overpowered made you sound more whiny about it, comparing to solidly decent and still coming short fixes it.

I'm not happy.
Was I a fool to go mono KSons?

Are daemons really necessary?

>>50405239
no more heavy flamers!

>chaos marines end up weak
>chaos daemons end up strong
LOVING EVERY LAUGH

>>50405362
Too bad they don't carry Datacards or primer.

>>50404205
Why is it that the Chaos Space Marines only have access to the Phobos, Proteus and Achilles Land Raider variants? The Crusader and Redeemer patterns have comparatively simple modification that shouldn't be difficult for a Warpsmith to replicate and the Dark Mechanicum should have gotten ahold of at least one of the Prometheus or Helios variants to reverse-engineer through capture, theft or one of the Imperium chapters turning traitor.

>>50405362

OOS Ahriman and Rubes already. Oh bby.

How long should I expect to be waiting not in a huge rush would would like them before Feb.

>>50405343
So they cost about the same as deathwatch?

>>50405323
>second coming of 3.5
don't even know why. If anything, Traitor Legions should have those expectations. This is a TS-specific update. Fuck all y'all whiners, leave my dustbins alone!

>>50405320
Don't know, found it on a previous thread but I'd like to find out.

>>50405317
Amen, mate. Perturbator is like hardcore retrowave which I totally imagine a Noise Marine playing though: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8DekFFCE5c

And Powerwolf has a song about boners.

>>50405384
But are DW better? the answer is yes

>>50405391

deathwatch don't get a 4++

>>50405374
Got some status on your quo there bud

>>50405293
If he smashed the Rhinos with a hammer he wouldn't have to worry about them being half full, and it would be about as effective.

>>50405292
Orks have Warbikes+Buzzgob, Tyranids have Flyrants, DEldar have Corpsethief. Everyone has a meme-tier army list that can compete at mid-tier, if not upper tier.

>>50405235
Too many points for too little output. 218 points for three Lascannons?

>>50405370
Only if you want to play with cheesy faggots. Don't be a cheesy faggot.

>>50405382
Oh they don't take that long, at all IF they already have the models in stock. If they don't you'll probably end up waiting a week while they order it from their supplier then ship it out to you. Their prices make any extra wait worth it though, although they are more of a model store rather than a hobby story - they do sell some army painter stuff but not much else.

>>50405297
>>50405243
>>50405195
Well fuark, that sounds like it's right up my alley.

My only hesitation is that I'm a new player, you guys are talking about how I've gotta be playing perfectly...I'm gonna lose a hell of a lot of games before I start gitting gud, I think.

>>50404362
Did anyone screencap that post about a guy who used Geomortis/mancy to build a wall and make Trump references?

>>50405408
>He sticks his oblits in the backfield

>>50405405
Deathwatch are cheaper, more versatile, have more reliable army-wide rules/mechanics, and have access to Drop Pods (aka immunity to alphastrike).

Sure, you can cobble together retarded multiple character Thousand Sons stars, but if the enemy goes first they can gut the unit before you get to put up Invisibility/Endurance/Veil of Time/any Invuln buffs. A 4++ is nice, but it's not enough to keep a ~30 PPM MEQ alive.

>>50405459
Accidentally quoted, sorry for rhe accidental (You)

>>50405452
That most factions for you, unless you netlist one of the "victory by deployment" armies.

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>>50405407
The term you're looking for is 'schadenfreude'.

>>50405460
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you aren't so retarded as to think deep striking them is a good idea.

Waddling about mid-field is fun and all, but I'd rather have 218 points of dedicated ranged anti-tank fire. 218 points for three of any of the Obliterator weapons is a shitty investment, and the utility is overrated.

>>50405513
Or externalised Weltschmerz

>>50405450

Good enough for me. I take forever to get started anyway on projects to paint and model so the wait will barely affect me.


Army paints and such I'm not fussed over too much that was some other anon.

>>50405518
>oblits have 3 weapons
So you don't actually play csm, no need to comment then

Anyone remember the rumoured release on the four new Battleforces?

>>50405554
I assume s/he meant 3 oblits who can fire one weapon per turn each.

Dammit, I love Necrons in the fluff, but so many of their army either has ugly models, or just aren't very good.

I just want footslogging robodeathhell but that only leaves me with like, half a dozen units out of the entire book.

>>50404284
90% are aussies and other cunts stuck in basements who never play and certainly don't have the cash to buy a chaos army
They justify not buying it by saying oh it's crap
The better chaos armies get the more these cunts will spaz to justify them not having an actual army

>>50405554
So you can't actually read. While there is ambiguity in my phrasing there, the intended parsing is pretty fucking obvious based on context.

Oblits haven't been good for ages, and a conditional +1 Invuln isn't going to make them any less mediocre.

>>50405574
Most of the Necron codex is decent though?

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>>50405561
>rumoured

Anon, keep up. Space Wolves, Deathwatch, Ad Mech, Tau.

>>50404395
Lying on the internet you don't have an army you only know about 40k from 4chan

>>50405607
As the rumour of the date, not of the release.

>>50405601

My ideal necrons only has like, Overlords, Lychguard, Warriors and Immortals though. Which, although decent, would make a boring as piss army to play and play against.

>>50405601
Naw, it's like 40% bad, 30% mediocre, 30% good and then a formation that improves some of it.

>>50404529
Ah so you are too poor to buy the models

>>50405627
No Monoliths?

Where are the god damn US pre-orders? I just want to order these fucking dice and go to bed.

>>50405640
You just activated his shill card.

>>50405627
>I just want footslogging robodeathhell
>wait but no that's boring

make up your mind shit nigga

Insults aside, have you considered Admech?

>>50405317
I always associate Orks more with ska music. Maybe it's all the checkers. This is my Ork song https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3QniknY5BBM

>>50405643

Nah, I just want giant footslogging swarm of inevitable death.

I'm still just feeling out what army I want to take up anyway.

>>50405648
8 hours behind like the country itself.

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>>50405010
No transport and 10 girl squads.

Also the inferno pistol on your boss lady is wasted. A combi melta does the same thing and cheaper.

If you really want to go on foot make them squad of 20. Add Inquiditor Coatez (forgot his name) the guy that gives free shots against deep striking. Park the girls on an objetive and enjoy.

Heavy Bolter in normal Sister squads are a waste.

Dominion squads with Storm Bolter are a waste. This girls need their 4 meltaguns, combi melta and Immolator to work.

Multi-Melta Retribution are worthless.


This least does not use the SoB advantages of being anti horde and anit mech. Doing both things half ass.

>>50405625
After the 10th.

>>50405625
Dec 3rd

>>50405655

I'm kinda leaning away from Imperium because, since most of the armies in the game are Imperial, it'd be far more fun to not have Imperium vs Imperium games.

>>50405636

More like 70% good, 15% mediocre, 15% shit (Most of the HQ section, C'tan, monoliths, LoW besides the Obelisk which is mediocre) and with formations that are mostly okayish except for 2 OP as shit ones, and the Decurion itself which leeches all joy out of the game when fielded.

>>50405661
No offence, but that was like having hot yellow diarrhoea pipelined into my auditory centre.

>>50405640
You got me. I'm just too poor to buy six more sets of Rubricae and nine sets of Occult termies and however many sorcerers I'd need to fill the formation and exclusively play the 3000+ point games needed to field all of them.

>>50405661
That's not fucking Ska.

>>50405676
>>50405672
Thanks, got a casual 1k tourney on the 16th so it may or may not be a bit tight to both order, receive, prep and at least prime.

>>50405682
>I want to be a special snowflake

Anything not-Marine is special snowflake status.

>>50404205
Lore question; how heavy is a Lasgun battery? I'm running Rogue Trader RP

How expensive are Tau? They look about as expensive as Eldar.

>>50405772
Points? Dollars? Dollars Per point?

>>50405803
In terms of money needed to make something like a 1000 point army.

>>50405738
8 x10^34 tons

>>50405243
>>50405270
Do note that (at least) some of those effect are -ld against morale and pinning checks, not against leadership tests. As such they dont affect Psychic Shriek.

>>50405814
Tau battleforce coming out in December is quite a deal, goyim. You save nearly a hundred us dollars! Oy vey!!

>>50404453
Emperors Children SONIC EVERYTHING

SONIC OBLITERATORS
SONIC HAVOCS
SONIC PREDATORS
SONIC LAND RAIDERS
SONIC HELBRUTES
SONIC TERMINATORS

GOTTA GO AMPLIFIED

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since FnP counts as a save now, does veil of time from the librarius discipline allow re-rolls on FnP?

>>50405627
That's why I stopped buying Necrons, I love their aesthetic and lore but holy fuck are they boring in terms of list building/playing.

So if the rumors are correct then the Scarab Occult sorcerer gets an extra wound, an extra point of ballistic skill, an extra mastery level, Terminator armour and all that it entails for only 32 points more than the regular 1 wound sorcerers you get with your rubrics.

How is that fair and why couldn't both of them have gotten the extra wound and mastery level?

>>50405879
>since FnP counts as a save now,

It's not a save. It is only counted as a save for the purposes of determining whether or not something has suffered an "unsaved wound."

When it comes to "taking saves," however, FnP is still considered to be different from Armor, Cover, and Invulnerable saves.

>>50405513
More like class war

>>50404480
>SoB
Just stop already, you've become a supplement army like Tempestus and Assassins.

>>50405898
Because they are actual sorcerers, where as the rubric nannies are just aspiring sorcerers.

>>50405918
>Not knowing the book also includes GKs and Scions and SoB are getting own codex in january.

>>50405905
ok thanks anon

>>50405944
Well since they only cost 32 points less why couldn't they both have been full sorcerers? It'd go a long way in making rubrics not shit.

What are the requirements for the War Cabal?

>>50405945
Yeah, all the Imperial allies are getting rolled up.

But do keep your hopes up, just don't be a pest about it.

>>50405961
And coincidentally in Horus Heresy 35 points is how much it costs to upgrade a multi wound character with Terminator armour so it'd all shake out quite well.

>>50405961
Because rubrics have always been led by a crummy aspiring champion.

It's traditional by now.

>>50405746
100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 megapounds

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>>50405876
>no EC elite troop choice with 80s glam metal haircuts that rocks out on sonic guitars

Why does GW hate fun

Best loadout for chimera aside from autocannon turret?

>>50406014
That's what you think. The updated Noise Marines are coming back with Guitars.

>>50406023
Multilas and Flamer.

>>50405703
>play the 3000+
>Not running Nine 9man squads of each
>Not sending 6k pts of infantry into a game to get rerolling 1s vs 2 warlords + infantry support

Do you even Thousand Sons, bro?

Just preordered the LE and 2 dice
Come at me, loyalists

>>50406023
Multilaser I guess

>>50405985
It's shit tradition that I would like to see changed, at the very least they shouldn't cost 58 fucking points, 38 points would be much more appropriate.

>>50406046
Y'know tarpitting requires the troops to actually be cheaper than the thing they're tarpitting, right!

So the verdict is that Rubric Marines are still bad?

>tfw all this TSons stuff
>I just want Karanak and Chosen in KdK

>>50406093
Yup
And pink horrors are even better now
Fuck GW

>>50406106
Looks like I'll be continuing to use my own homebrew rules for another 5 years.

>>50406093
Yep. Thousand Sons are still terrible, Terminators will be hella mediocre, Tzangors will be okay, Sorcerers will be great.

It wouldn't have taken much to make Thousand Sons not completely awful. Just keep the price the same and give them a 2W ML2 Sorcerer.

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>tfw you ask your beloved to read a 40K post out loud and she does it with such emotion that it brings tears to your eyes
http://26thgc.tumblr.com/post/152174013873/the-personality-of-perturabo-from-1d4chan

>>50406158
>Just keep the price the same and give them a 2W ML2 Sorcerer.
I'm just going to play them like this to be honest, if my opponent doesn't agree I'll find someone else to play with.

>>50406072

You can't tarpit Warlords anyway, they can't be held in combat.

I'm saying to field that army you can run 2 Warlords w/ infantry support and then the Warlords drop 8 Str D large blasts on your ass and you die.

It's like you've never played Thousand Sons and haven't accepted the fact that you can't run them and expect to win.

>>50406046
>run nine man Thousand Sons squad
>can't even take the heavy weapon
Meanwhile Horrors gain the ability to split into two new units of Horrors when they die for no additional point cost.

>>50406196

They already aren't good, might as well stay fluffy. Makes it hurt less when everything collapses on top of me.
:^)

>>50406096
Karanak and Skar not being in KDK is retarded as fuck.

It's like they don't want to sell that Skarbrand model even though KDK is basically just 'PLEASE BUY OUR NEW BLOODTHIRSTER: The codex"

We don't get chosen for the same reason we don't get Havocs: Shooting is for pussies. really KDK should have gotten the Aos-port beastmen rather than 1k sons.

>>50406190
Bring Magnus and offer them a choice between the unkillable D-spam FMC or upgraded Thousand Sons Aspiring Sorcerers.

>tfw GW releases beautiful models with shit rules again

If I buy WoM I'll have Dark Eldar who can't win a game and TSons who can't win a game unless they resort to the infinite cheese of Horror Splitting, which requires buying 1000000000000000000000000000000 Horrors to work

Thanks GW lel

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>Already preordered $400 of TSons
>Theyre bad

>>50406221

If you play DE vs TS one will have to win.
Usually it's DE. Venoms put out more shots than I had models when I played them.

>40k is becoming hilariously imbalanced
>30k requires a ton of cost investment to play
just kill me

>>50406221
Well at least now that there are models at all they're at least capable of getting updates in the future.

>>50406243
>preordering before you even know the fucking rules

>>50406252
40k balance trajectory is pretty lulzy. These new campaign books are all over the place internally, let alone externally. This Pink Horror update is just utterly unfathomable.

>>50405830
For death jesters, they affect the -2LD morale test from death is not enough though.

>>50405452
It's very fun. Harlequins aren't as hard as people say they are. I've had great success in my local meta playing pure Harlies at 1500, beating all the Tau/Eldar/SM tomfoolery.
I just can't beat the fucking Wulfen that hit back when they die.

You won't lose a lot at first. It's simple to play, and you can do it at 750 points.

For my local 750 point league I took:
Harlequin Cast of Players:
Shadowseer, ML2, Mask of Secrets
Death Jester
Troupe, 3 Embraces.

Allied CWE:
Farseer on bike
Scatbikesx3
Shadow Spectres+Exarchx3

Allied DE:
Archon, Armour of Misery
Kabalites, Venom 2xSC

Came to ~750 iirc.
It was fun but a pain in the ass carrying 5 books around for a 750 point game.
(CWE,DE,Harlies,IA11,Rulebook)

>>50406214
Skarbrand was banished by khorne. It actually makes sense for him not to be in the book, even if it is lame and gay.

>>50406255
Bro, we're getting Sigmared next year. We'll be lucky if Thousand Sons aren't just variant models for Hatebound™ Spitechosen™.

>>50406106
>>50406135

So the 58 point rubric squad sergeants are still forced to roll on the Tzeentch table, right? So they get the random strength magic grenade launcher, and one other spell? At least they have a decent chance of rolling a blessing so they can give their squad a 3++ without needing a Divination sorcerer HQ to do the trick for them. Suddenly Boon of Mutation is actually a useful roll lol. Still, they're pretty sucky, it's like taking a squad of Deathwatch Sternguard, except with no drop pods, and random psychic powers instead of reliable combi-weapons.

Scarab Occult Terminators buffed by Divination might be alright, though. They seem like a decent unit, kinda like Eldar Dark Reapers except in Terminator Armor, not gamebreaking but not terrible either.

At least they didn't drop the ball on the artifacts. The good build for fluffy Thousand Sons will probably be taking Tzaangor cannon fodder, and huge numbers of sorcerers buffing a few squads of Scarab Occult Terminators.

>>50406304
Yet there's a warband that actively worships him.

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>Space Hulk is back

wtf I love GW now

>>50406218
Alternatively I just bring my second army, either they get to face My slightly upgraded Thousand Sons or they get to face my cavalcade of unkillable Mechanicum robots.

Any updated rumors about the contents of the Traitor Legions supplement?

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>>50406336

Alright lads, who was a dumb enough shmuck to shell out for the special edition with 8th edition apparently Q1 or 2 next year?

C'mon, you can tell us. Sure, we'll make fun of you for it, but it's an anonymous board. Your shame won't be tied to your face.

>>50406214
At the very least they could've thrown in Kharn. I mean for fuck's sake they made an army about Khorne and then didn't put in any of Khorne's characters besides fucking Skulltaker, a literal who compared to anyone else associated with Khorne.

>>50406284
>Harlequins aren't as hard as people make them out to be
>you just have to bring three detachments spread across three factions and four books to a 750 point game

>>50406316
1/3 odds for a blessing are pretty shitty. Especially when one of the two blessing's only guaranteed effect is a S4 hit on yourself.

>>50406158
>marines are mid tier but have a spellcaster in their ranks that gives you warpcharges and casts spells

sounds balanced to me

>>50406304
>>50406319

Skarbrand is, in a sense, still Khorne's servant, since he fights simply for the sake of fighting, even knowing he can never be worthy in the eyes of Khorne. Which is a very Khornate attitude.

He should be in KDK.

>>50406373
Casts shitty spells that is, if he could generate all his powers on Divination or some other non-shit discipline they might be decent.

>>50406373
Thousand Sons (the unit) are pure bottom tier. Even with intensive Sorcerer support, you won't be able to take more than the minimum for tax purposes without crippling yourself against any sort of semi-competitive army.

>>50406316
>Suddenly Boon of Mutation is actually a useful roll lol
You'd need another character in the unit to use boon of mutation on (unless you can cast it on yourself? Its been quite some time since I've looked at the tzeentch psy power table...)

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So...hows the Tzeentch book?

>>50406368
I don't mind the lack of Kharn as he's a CSM who has his own warband and it's not daemonkin.

Skull-taker should get ap2 on the Slayer sword so he can actually do his job.

Karanak should just be put into the book, no changes needed

And Skarbrand can be added in, maybe give him a slight buff since he'll lose his warlord trait

>>50406425
The usual, Daemons are amazing (game breakingly so) but the Thousand Sons are mediocre at best.

>>50406425
For Daemons? Catapulted them beyond CWE.

For Thousand Sons? Pretty mediocre. Actual Thousand Sons (the unit) are still garbage, but we got 3W Sorcerers back and the Sorcerer formations and Relics are nice. The Warlord Traits are pretty crappy though.

>>50406372
>I've had great success playing pure harlies at 1500
>here's something else you can do to play a freakshow if you don't want pure harlies
those are two different things mate. My 1500 harlies is a Cegorachs Revenge, 8 in each troupe, 5 kisses, two embraces, and an ablative wound.

>>50406458
I'm sorry, but I can't believe that a pure foot Harlequin build is beating competent players using non-softball lists.

>>50406425

A baffling mix of disappointing, mediocre and OP as shit.

You could easily make a top tier army out of this if you focused on Horrors and Magnus. (There's even a "Magnus + 3 exalted sorcerers or daemon princes" formation)

You could conversely make a fluffy thousand sons list that needs to optimize aggressively to reach mid tiers.

Middle ground is making a variant on the "Cultists and sorcerers with forge world and allies" list that uses blue bird head mutant cultists.

>>50406486
You forget that Veil of Tears exists, and that if they want to shoot you they'll be somewhere within 20" of you.
You don't win every time, and in no way am I saying harlequins are a *good* army, but I win more than half my games vs pure knights, farsight bombs, warp spider lists, and Battle Companies.

>>50406441
>>50406453
>>50406493

So basically stay away from Daemon abuse if you want something fluffy and optimise the shit out of what you do have.

Appeals to me to be honest.

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>>50405010
>got the army for 15 years
>still unpainted or literally shitpainted

Oh wow so a normal /tg/ fag

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This Ogre Mage model is pretty rad. Anything it'd work well as in 40k, possibly with a bit of conversion work?

Noticed 40k chaos doesn't have a lot of monstrous infantry size units... Pretty much just chaos spawn in fact.

>>50406014
>80s glam metal haircuts that rocks out on sonic guitars

Eh. I run a Noise Marine list, and always have, but I personally think the "weird hybrid weapons that are partly built into their hands" style is much more fitting for their weapons. What Noise Marines consider to be "music" is so far beyond what mortals would consider "music" that I feel their weapons should reflect that - strange, incomprehensible instruments that only they can truly understand, and that make no sense to mere mortals save for the incredible destructive power they unleash. They're so far gone that anything even remotely sane is not worth their time.

I would have no problem with guitars coming back, though, because it's ultimately personal taste to me.

>>50406582
Could convert it to a daemon prince, maybe Tzeentch or Khorne.

>>50406526
Honestly, I'm skeptical that even heavy optimization can drag a "fluffy" Thousand Sons list out of bottom tier. I've been experimenting with what I could field today (with 3x9 Thousand Sons and 9 Terminators), can even MSU Thousand Sons squads are a massive point investment that still isn't really good for anything.

>>50406493
Shouldn't that be how books are though? A mix of disappointing, mediocre and OP as shit?

I mean, look at modern armies in real life. Some shit is OP as fuck, some shit is mediocre and some shit is disappointing. Russia and USA have the best MSAA in the world, but Europe has stuff which is mediocre at best. A M1A2 or Challenger 2 or Leopard A* would easily go toe-to-toe with any tank in the world. But their APC's and transports aren't that great.

So, isn't it better for a book to have some crap and some good, rather than all crap and all good? At the end of the day, making everything meta balanced is impossible, so these kind of results are good. Besides, the new models are insanely good and my Chaosfag mate is fucking ecstatic (he's been behind on 40k due to a secret project he is working on, gotta love autistic tinfoilers) that Chaos is finally getting some quality non-meme tier models.

He is also hoping, praying, that the rumour I told him about potential new Deathguard, Emperor's Children and Khorne Berserker codexes with new models is legit. Though I dunno how the Khorne Berserker book works, after all, that's not a Legion, but World Eaters mixing with everybody under the sun.

>>50406582
Counts as Sorceror on bike, he lopes along side his spawn escorts
>>50406590
Too small, by a lot

>>50406590
Khorne hates sorcery, gotta be Tzeentch.

>>50406590

DP's are 60 mm scale tho.

Plus, I already have a Daemon Prince... When would you want to run more than one 300 point model outside of flying circus netlisting... Which I believe is leaning Nurgle right now.

>>50405668
>Multi-Melta Retribution are worthless.

>he doesn't put his MM Retributors in a Repressor and drives around using the 4 fire ports to pop shit and run away

If I remember correctly (since I've not play SoB since 5th when I used this tactic) that you're forced to Snap Shot if you move over 6" in the vehicle. Or is it any movement? You could go all out until you're behind some cover or suicide charge something that needs to die them pop it.

>>50406372
>>50406316
Force is a blessing

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>>50406585
Yeah that's cool and all, but it's not as cool as this.

>>50406603
>Shouldn't that be how books are though? A mix of disappointing, mediocre and OP as shit?

No. No it should fucking not be.

It should be resoundingly "Pretty good" all round, in an ideal world. If a unit is shit, it should be low points chaff that's -worth taking- because it costs so little. If a unit is a game changingly terrifying super-beast, it should cost a lot.

>>50405864
You're doing it wrong

>Don't wait until Tau Battleforce coming out in December, goy. It's not a good deal at all, goyim. You won't save nearly a hundred US Dollars! Just buy them now, you won't want to lose your games now, will you? It'd be ANNUDA SHOAH if that happened. Ov vey!

>>50406604
>>50406617
I don't know how big the model is, forgive me.

Could turn it into a spawn, or a plague ogryn for R&H?

>>50406363
I just bought into GSC :^]

>>50406068
They should just be free upgrades for taking a full squad.

>>50406603
>mean, look at modern armies in real life
Real life sucks balls and you should feel bad for posting something that retarded.

I get that no book can be perfectly balanced, but it's sure as shit possible to do better than Wrath of Magnus or Damocles Crusade or Waaagh Ghazkull versus Craftworld Eldar.

>>50404562
Several vanguards tall

>>50406425

Thousand Sons:

Rubric marines and Aspiring Sorcerers still suck, though they can spam AP4 flamethrowers now if you are in need of a genestealer removal unit.

Scarab Occult Terminators are good as far as Terminators go, two heavy weapons per 5 and everything has AP3, sergeant has ML2 and two wounds, he can take Divination or Telepathy for some good memes.

Tzaangors are like worse ork boyz but with invulnerable saves.

Exalted Sorcerers are really good, basically Chaos Lords that also have psychic powers and orbital bombardment, you will want to spam these.

Magnus is 650 points, and possibly OP.

Horrors have to be killed three times each now, have fun stopping them from summoning more of themselves.

>>50405174
noooooooooooooooooo

Which armies fit these criteria:

>High defenses (be it toughness, armour or invulns)
>good at footslogging
>good customisation

>>50406715
All?

None.

>>50406715
Orkz :^)

>>50406629
>burning 2-3 Warp charge per Thousand Sons squads just to improve their save to a 3++
I guess it's an okay last resort if you've got a full squad of Grav Devs staring at you, but that's not a good plan A.

>>50406715

Thousand Sons (^:

>>50406647
You misunderstand. Everything being 'pretty good' is dependent on the meta. For example, Scions seem pretty good if you're an Ork player, but for an IG player it is always better to take Veterans.

In essence, there is ALWAYS a ranking of good shit. So even if everything is 'pretty good', there is always going to be something 1st and something at the bottom. Meaning that ends up not being used due to efficiency and PPM and effectiveness and all that shit.

And if you do that, then the older dex will never be able to hold a candle to them, so changes get made to them so they can beat the new dex and so on and so on. Power creep is real. It's better to keep shit grounded than it is to just try and go all out to make sure everything is perfectly viable.

Even fags on /tg/ can't make balanced dex and they claim to be better, smarter and more careful than GW rule writers. It just isn't possible to do that. If you make a dex where everything is 'pretty good' (and no such dex exists atm) then you get people outright refusing to play you. Tau, Eldar and Daemons are insanely good, but they do all have stuff which is pretty shit. Tau have Breacher Teams and Piranha's, Eldar have Vaul Batteries, Daemons have shit which isn't SUMMON ALL DAY ERRYDAY. But people still refuse to play them. Imagine a codex where you could literally pick units with a dice roll and you'd still win 70% of the time. You'd never get a game.

>>50406715
Guardsmen if you spam psychic powers.

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>>50406728

>>50406765
But there at least one army that fits any two of those

>>50406715
Necrons
Grey knights
Admech
All-suits Tau lists

>>50406710
Tzaangors are better than Boyz. Not that that's a particularly meaningful statement.

>>50406747

>It's okay if GW doesn't try to balance because I think balance is a lost cause

>>50406781
>>50406782

I like the idea of Grey Knights, but I really don't like how the regular PAGK look, and an all-termi GK army is, from what I understand, garbage.

>>50406792
Why? What about compared to cultists?

>>50406782
Implying they have
>customization
>customization/high defenses
>high defenses
>footslogging*

*Jumping around like rabbit on PCP is hardly footslogging.

>>50406687
My point is, even in real life, where lives are literally at stake, people can't make good all round equipment. The game has no such problems, so how do you think this is suppose to be balanced?

The only way to balance this shit is to basically scrap the entire codex range and restart. But that gives us AoS which everybody is fucking terrified of happening. Yes, AoS isn't balanced, but it is a lot better than WHFB was.

There is so many books now for 40k that it's never going to be possible to do what you want. Accept the good parts and mediocre parts and ignore the bad parts. Blood Angels players, until FAQ update and Angel's Blade, basically had monolists to even attempt to win. Now they're probably on par with Dark Angels due to Grav. Since Dark Angel's are next years update (them plus The Fallen) they'll get Grav then and leapfrog BA.

I play BA and I really have no problem with Sanguinary Guard being shit. It'd be nice if they were, but they're not.

>>50406811
Use the transitive property here anon, ffs

>>50406747
>(and no such dex exists atm)

Eldar.

Everything in the Eldar codex is at least playable. Even their weakest units, like Storm Guardians, are still okay enough to put on the field without crippling yourself. Vaul's Wrath batteries are dirt cheap and pretty hard to remove with anti-infantry shooting, which makes them perfect for camping on rear objectives while still contributing with their long-range fire. I'd argue that Genestealer Cults don't have any dud units either. The closest thing they have are Aberrants, and they have some use as an anti-fortification tool if your opponent habitually brings Bastions and other such things.

"Perfect balance" is always going to be hard, but there's absolutely no reason why games designers shouldn't at least strive for it. A book should not include units designed to suck, and when balance issues do arise, erratas should be released to try and fix them.

Just look at Warmachine - their Mk3 rules were far from perfect, but they've already released one errata to fix issues which arose from badly phrased rules, and another substantial one is coming in January to bring the weakest armies up to speed.

>>50406191
>Rubrics in apoc have vortex grenades
Git gud m7

>>50406747
SpaceOdins fandex is a better, more balanced codex than most of GW's books.

Pull your head out of your ass and look at reality. Pink Horrors were already one of the best Troop units in the game, and they just gave them the ability to double in number when killed. You are literally trying to defend that status quo because perfect balance is unattainable. You're like fucking Crusade trying to defend his utter disregard for cold, factual arithmetic.

>>50406829
>The only way to balance this shit is to basically scrap the entire codex range and restart. But that gives us AoS which everybody is fucking terrified of happening.

Nope. There's absolutely no reason why GW couldn't mass-update all of the codexes while retaining the same core ruleset. It would take a hell of a long time, given that every army would have to be worked on and playtested simultaneously, but it is absolutely possible.

>>50406847
So Vypers are worth their points?

You may be churning out generals too fast, if you've got two saging generals in the catalog at the same time.

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>>50406794
I never said that. I said that getting a dex with good, mediocre and shit stuff is better than getting a dex with all good stuff, all shit stuff or all mediocre stuff.

And you're also assuming GW isn't trying to balance. But it is a lost cause, it's too far gone. Again, if they restarted the game (which everybody is screeching is going to happen) that might be possible.

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>>50406374
>Skarbrand
>Capable of knowing things.

>>50406829
Dark Angels are one of the top codex in the game, you ignorant dumbass.

No one is saying perfect balance is attaimable, but that's no excuse for GW consistently leaving bottom armies in the dirt and buffing strong armies. It doesn't take a genius to realize that nerfing Orks with Waaagh Ghazkull was a stupid decision.

>>50406883
>So Vypers are worth their points?

Yep. I run a squadron of three with Starcannons and Shruiken Cannons and don't feel they underperform for the cost.

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>>50406538
Repsent

>>50406945
nice cheetos tau

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>thousand sons dice pre-order
>sold out
>a pre-order
>sold out

>>50406877
You don't even have to go that far. Just pick a single point and balance all future codex against it. Sure, it might take a few years for every codex to catch up, but it would be better than the arbitrary fluctuations that we have now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvuVWJszF_A

>>50406960
It happens. They got more pre-orders than they had stock.

>>50406960
>not just waiting for FW TSons dice
If only the 40k ones didn't have the shitty skulls