/CofD/ &/wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness

>>50395880

No, but only because I've got pretty much everything already.

Is the storyteller Street Fighter game any good?

>>50397510

It's got surprisingly good combat for a White Wolf game, maybe the best combat out of all of them.

>>50397646
>>50397510
>Surprisingly good combat
Isn't it just a worst Exalted?

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Well, this is going to either be entertaining as hell or a trainwreck. In the planning stages of a long running cWoD series of chronicles where I'm going to take my group through the metaplot, and allow them to avert the 'End', and then shift into OWoD and the new/continuing timeline from V20. Maybe even continue into World of Future Darkness, as our group loves its Cyberpunk.

My core team is a newly awakened Hunter, and his adoptive sibling (at this point in their char gen, they may redefine the relationship) who is a Gurahl just finding out what he is. Drop in/irregular players will be an Anarch Biker, a newbie Mage, and several [to be determined]s.

I'm starting them out at Christmas 1992 in Chicago, on a very basic adventure (minor Sabbat raid fucked up their neighborhood, and there are several shovelhead hobos dressed as Santa wandering the sewers. I may well introduce Gulfora. She doesn't seem to fit later Fallen mechanics, but she sounds fun to use, especially in a mostly male chronicle.)

Then, I can just adapt Ashes to Ashes story ideas, and then slowly play out the meta plot from the angle of none-vampires dealing with the fallout.

Wish me luck? Because I'm nervous as hell about getting this right.

An unambiguously good Vampire.

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>>50398048
>running a canon chronicle
>with a mixed group of supers

Good luck, you'll need it.

>>50398283

Yeah, I'm already expecting there to be major power discrepancies. I'll also be keeping things in the material plane unless the entire group ends up elsewhere. Astral and other realm personal adventures will be done through online chat outside the main game.

>>50398048
>Maybe even continue into World of Future Darkness, as our group loves its Cyberpunk.
>Not just using the original World of Future Darkness with 2020's setting
Step up
http://pastebin.com/G38ZfCCb

>>50398338
>http://pastebin.com/G38ZfCCb

Hmm, interesting, thanks. I'll store it away. After all, this is likely years away, and that's if the game lasts.

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>>50398317
>The major problem is power discrepancy

>Not the total clusterfuck of purpose, theme, mood, and other nonsense that comes with playing monster mash super sentai

Sometimes I wish I could gather all of /codg/ into a room and execute a drone strike on it.

>>50398485

>This much salt.

>>50398485
Why is Obama playing Russian Roulette?

>>50398563
He's right, though. Power discrepancy isn't really that big a deal. The rest of it is. Monster Mash games are inherently going to involve ignoring or handwaving huge chunks of how the games are meant to go.

Ok. I'm planning a Demon/Mage story. A fight against the G-M and the Exarchs (I'm not telling who is the boss here in case my players are watching).
What would I need to have in Mind when mixing Demons and Mages?

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>>50398951
>Power discrepancy
In owod yes, it is issue. Werewolfs are murdermachines every last one of them. Don't even have to try. Given enough time mages bend reality over the pool table

Cod, not so much. Not balanced persay but the powers/ resistances/ counter/ heavy hitter are more or less understandable in the same ballpark.

>handwaving
In owod yes, it is issue. As in, a lot of the powers and factions have history tied to it, that you must make a decision to part ways with. Looking at the Caine myth. Looking at the Wyrm vampires

Cod, not so much. game is modular enough. To complete ignore entire splats, and run rogue solo monsters. and with Cod move away from global conspiracies to interpersonal stories. It's not what you are its what you do.

>>50399143
Power discrepancy only matters if everyone is doing the same thing.

And while CofD is more modular, it's still hard to swallow "this Changeling, Vampire, Mage, and Lucifuge all know each other and hang out".

>>50399433
Crossover Games are best where it's almost entirely one splat, with just a dash of another.

It's pretty much the only situation in which I could see Beast as being even slightly acceptable.

>>50398951
>Monster Mash games are inherently going to involve ignoring or handwaving huge chunks of how the games are meant to go.

Such is the reality of my group, where some like [Monster] but not [Other monster]. Short of doing an all Hunter game, this is the only way to keep everyone interested. I'll just have to do my best to keep to an overall tone, rather than trying to amalgam them all. Everyone will be a bit of an outcast, so I can certainly keep a certain amount of tension, as even a were[thing] fears silver filled shotguns.

>Werewolfs are murdermachines every last one of them. Don't even have to try. Given enough time mages bend reality over the pool table

A good job I don't mind them getting scary powerful. A lone Werebear has to be careful when he goes full murdermode, as everyone wants him dead, and a Hunter partner doesn't offer the same protection as a pack. Our Mage I don't expect to be able to attend much, so fully expect him to be my NPCs the majority of the time, and also vital to my end goal of letting them counter (or at least delay by a millenia or two) the apocolypse. Our Brujah biker I don't expect to survive long, as his player is new to to the series, and is likely to shoot up Elysium at some point, or something like that.

Should be a lot of fun if everyone can get into it. The challenge for me will be having the metaplot progress in the background of whatever the team does. Having a scrying mage will help certain bits not escape their attentions.

>>50399484
>I'll just have to do my best to keep to an overall tone, rather than trying to amalgam them all.
As someone in a mixed game, this is the best choice I think. The GM tries to refine one or two themes per major arc rather than serve everyone. I think even people whose theme isn't a major one are still served better by clarity of focus.

>>50399143
>all of the elements of good storytelling are not nearly so important as whether PC power balancing is adequate or viable

Again, I wish I could hate you to death. Do you just skip over all of the ST sections the authors painstakingly put together to give you half a chance to make your chronicle better than some gonzo anime shit soup? Yes I'm salty, I am salty as fuck. There are so many other mechanically sound systems you could be using to play a game instead of storytelling and sadly you are the norm not the exception to the world of darkness playerbase for some bizarre reason completely unknown to me.

>>50399433
>and hang out

And thats the thing. The characters have to have a reason they work together. Changeling and Vamps are easy to blend. Changelings feed on emotion. Vamps can make people feel things with their powers.

A Nos (fear vampires/Nightmare) and Autumn court (fear emotion) can work together to get feed

A Deave (passionate vampires/Majesty) and Spring court (joyful/happy/love) can hit bars and get morals to fall over themselves to feed.

You can't get hung up on what the characters are and should be concentrating on what they can do. You have to work with coordinating themes they have in common. It hard to do well, but it can be done

>>50399631

The first chronicle will be as much about discovering themselves as the supernatural. The actual threat just some ghouls, a few shovelheads, and a low ranking Sabbat member who broke ranks and is trying to set himself up as a power player but the Prince deems beneath his notice for the moment. It's a mess that the vampire community would have resolved themselves in short order, if our heroes hadn't.

Adding in Gulfora didn't become an idea until reading a bit of Chicago by Night. I have a thing for Demon/Fallen elements, and she is an interesting enigma, and actually seems rather benign for World of Darkness on the whole. Does she have another source than a few mentions in By Night that I can read into?

>>50399656
>Not what Anon said
Get over yourself, if you want to run that game. No one is stopping you from running that game

>>50399656
Good god what's got your panties in a twist? You're not playing in the game. Don't be such a hateful little fuck about what other people do for recreation.

>>50399774
>>50399796
Very good advice actually, I think I will fuck off and try to get something together. At the very least these generals can serve as inspiration for how not to play the game.

>>50399744
>Gulfora
Last I read of her she is the thing the Nos are afraid of in the underground. That being said she's more plot device they real mover or shaker. The way she written she has no reason to being injecting into any one plot. I mean you can, but you've got to construct the reason. She wants X, but Y and Z are blocking her. The book only gives you what she can do. not why she does it.

>>50399864
Good call, and at the very least this interaction with you can serve as inspiration for the kinds of people not to play the game with.

>>50399479
>Beast as being even slightly acceptable

I'm not sure if that's exuberant optimism or tragic denial.

Do you also believe that there are situations where mages will not always ruin crossover?

>>50399774
>>50399796

A-are you guys wizards? I've never seen this before. Someone was actually convinced to stop being a hateful killjoy. On 4fuckingchan.

...the paradox hit is gonna be nasty on this one.

>>50399881
Not that it bore saying out loud but that goes double for you, mongoloid.

>>50399876

The hobo-santa shovelheads will have disturbed her, and she will likely try and feed off someone in the group, get scared off, and bug them until she gets bored on and off.

It seems an odd choice to have her written as living in the sewer, as she is a succubi.

>>50399884
Yes to both.

>>50399888
It means they got pissed off at the thought of continuing the argument. It's happened before.

>>50399914
Awwww, look at you stooping to slurs! Enjoy your bitter little life! Off you pop!

>>50399888
Well He's a Mind Mage. I'm just Princess of Clubs. I've been running Bodyguard for him for the past year or so. He pays for Lunch, and I just kind of keep him from following the changelings into Dream Troggs

>>50399888
>>50399796
>>50399774
I don't understand how "God, I hate when people argue in favour of dumb crossover" is so poorly received.

>>50399975
Mostly because it doesn't really affect anyone. I've played in crossover games I've thoroughly enjoyed. It really CAN be done well. Not every time, but there's no reason to be as vitriolic about it as witnessed above.

>>50399975
Don't even bother asking. This is /wodg/ for you.

>>50399884
I do. Though it requires just as much effort on the part of the player, as it does the GM.

>>50399975
I've played in fun crossover games.

>>50399919
>hobo-santa
I think you mean the Krampus good sir

She sleeps under Hype Park, so its not sewage from what I gather. I think her being under ground is suppose to be playing off the DnD dungeon feel. And I believe they were trying to contrast the ugly nos with the beautiful Siren bit

>>50400024

Hah! Yes, I'll be stealing that, thank you, good sir.

Hm, actually now you mention it I was basically just going to handwave the Nos as hiding and letting the superf(r)iends think the baby vamps out before clearing their tunnels, but do you think seeing an Anarch Brujah workign with what is clearly a hunter team (and maybe an overt werecreature, if he bears out) is grounds for a Blood Hunt? Or something they would file away for later blackmail?

>>50400009
>>50400022
>>50400001
That Anon didn't seem to be *against* the idea of crossover, just the notion that "Monster Mash" games are perfectly fine and not difficult.
It's possible, yeah, but you lose out on many of the themes and most of the setting of the gamelines in question.

>>50400111
Remember to steal children and hang them by lamp posts

Blackmail Always

A Blood Hunt gets you nothing. And then you have to prove that the vampire is clearly violating some law or endangering everyone with their actions. A werebear looks like a bear gangrle on first sight. A Hunter could just be mortal human. If anthing its a place for questions and investigation

Let them try to do a favors for favors. Carrot and stick style. Help us out with X and we'll do Y for you, while not letting A and B know about C. And that is how the corruption political system gets shit done. If the arrangement goes south the Nos have the option to drop the relationship and more, if these guys prove a problem

>>50400124

>>50399656
>I wish I could hate you to death

I think he was a little bit more than just *against*

>>50400225

Thanks. I think you just gave me my 'in' to how the team will tackle the vampire-aimed pre-written adventures with minimal tweaks.

You are good at this stuff. Much appreciated.

>>50400252

Not a problem sir, and Good Luck with your game

If you're on the discord Trent#6675

>>50400245
I know this thread has trouble with figurative language, but come on...

>>50400124
The theming in CoD and WoD are all shitty anyway, so you're not missing anything.

Maybe he just wants a decently fleshed out monster system, but his group isn't interested in discussing the moral trappings of whether or not a vampire can menstruate out their penis or whether a Werewolf fucking a dog is a breaking point or not.

>>50400310
Its a fucking Penny Arcade reference, Jesus people. The original anon was miffed but not that mad.

>>50400326
Penny Arcade didn't invent the term

>>50400311
This may surprise you, but not everyone in the thread hates the system.
And there are so many better monster mash systems. Create-your-own monster systems, even.

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Alright /tg/, I need some advice here

In my Vampire game we've come face to face with this Elder Vampire that probably wants to kill us considering we fucked up his soon-to-be-elysium. I'm not sure what his blood potency is but the GM mentioned that he's just shy of being forced to feed on only vampires, and was healing damage about as fast as we could deal it.

So, since fire is out of the question, with us also being vampires, I had the idea of resorting to snake venom to drain his blood pool. Is there anything I could use to get it into him that isn't some single-shot zookeeper tranq rifle?

>>50400468
>just shy of being forced to feed on only vampires
So like, 5.
Also that means he's got a Blood Pool of max 15.
Either there's some plot bullshit going on, your GM doesn't know the system, or you just haven't hit hard enough yet.

>>50400547
In our GMs defense, our combat dots are a bit shit and we've been known to misinterpret things

>>50400547

Or they are leaning on the side of storytelling over crunch to keep their npc alive and threatening, and you just killed it for them, and turned a scary situation into 'his storyteller is a cheating asshole'. You could have just answered the question.

>>50400581
Fair enough, Blood Potency 5 is still nothing to sniff at, and odds are he's got the skills to back it up.

Especially as many Vampires avoid letting their Blood Potency get above 5 due to the difficulties in feeting, meaning that he's unlikely to follow the irritating PC mentality of "boost power stat hard, fuck everything else".

>>50400468
Hit him with a car

/tg/, I've been thinking of running one of those new fangled second edition games for a bunch of my college buddies for old times' sake. I'd probably go for something like a couple of sessions of Requiem or Awakening because those are the ones I'm most familiar with. The problem is I'm shit at making up plot. Are there any cool ready-made adventures for those games? I'd be even happy to get interesting plot hooks.

>>50395880
Did anyone buy the Mage 2e pdf with errata?

>>50400706
>Hit him with a truck

Fixed that for you, anon.

>>50400947

You could always take a Pathfinder AP like Carrion Crown and reskin it for dark urban fantasy.

>>50400947

There is the adbeju cipher or some shit like that. Its a One shot sdventure, its fine.

Reign of the exarchs is a campaign boolk, its.....usable, i didnt like some of the chapters and you will have to tweak it for your group.

>>50400947
Requiem? I dunno, not even a Requiem player, *urp* but let's give it a fucken crack ey.

Pick the nearest major city to you, one you know well. Your players are characters from "out of town" (meaning they can be from anywhere if you're feeling generous) and all head into the city after communications from the dominant Invictus group abruptly ceases with a single word, "Quarantine."

A wasting illness has spread quickly amongst the vampires of the city, causing them to quickly and quietly wither away as they slept. Most humans are unaware that anything has happened; they continue on their way as normal. To the players, though, given a list of contacts - every haven, a rotting corpse and a red X on the door. The paranoia, of what killed them, and how. The opportunity of a blank slate and to loot plague havens, forge new connections and insinuate themselves, claim a corner for themselves.

But disease has a way of returning....

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>>50395880
It took me some time to assemble a party to play with. Being the first experience of rpg ever for two of them, I described the splats in a few or more lines.
The problem is that some of the players want to play Beasts. How do i convince them that it's not worth it?

>>50403166
Why'd you offer them the chance in the first place?
If you didn't, say you're not comfortable having Beasts in the group.

>>50400311
>The theming is all shit anyway

Firstly: wrong. Second, why are you even here then?

What do you guys think about second edition's new fangled "doors" social system? I've been trying to wrap my head around and it seems like just an extended action with a weird "how many times you can make the roll" first impression thing attached to it. Still, it might be a better to play a social persuasive character than the GM going "eh, give me a Manipulation + Persuasion roll".

>>50403540
It's a social roll with a penalty based on circumstances (doors). Each roll, reduces the penalty until you can make the roll unimpeded.

You don't NEED to open doors, but that represents trying to social someone who either doesn't know, like or trust you, which is why it's called "forcing doors".

Use the social chase rules instead anyway

>>50402947
Requiem seem like a harder game to make plots for. For other lines you just go "some asshole wizard/ghost/spirit/whatever stumbled onto mysterious doodad/ritual/whothe/fuckcares and now shit's bannanas, yo". Requiem seems to favor vampire court intrigue more than investigation of weird shit.

>>50403740
The court intrigue can be the only thing you need to make the game fun.

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How many splats can there be in a party and being covered into a plot before it becomes Power Rangers: the game?

>>50403940
2, 1 if that 1 is Mages

>>50403780
What is a good vampire intrigue plot to start off a VtR campaign?

>>50395880
where are the 20th anniversary downloads?

>>50405140
In china

>>50404176
Vampire noble, shut out from the innermost halls of politics, is pissed, and has drawn in vampire hunters from outside to show that the current leaders aren't up to the task of handling the crisis.

So Jim Profit applied to my game... what do?

>>50407048
Explain to him who the fuck Jim Profit is.

>>50407156
>>50407048
Anon needs to source old memes

https://images.encyclopediadramatica.se/8/88/Piggymanifesto2.jpg

>>50407415
>>50407156
No, it's the actual Jim Profit.

>>50407491
I highly doubt that

>>50407491
piggy profit - meme
jim profit - tv show
or
fake profit - meming wantabe

stop being obscure and choose one Anon then story time or drop it

>>50407156
>>50407875
Jim Profit is a very old troll from the days of yore who avatared with images of that shadow guy from Naruto. He was sort of like a prototype virtualoptim. One of those people who wears a name and trip not so much to have an identity or know which posts are his, but to piss people off and derail every thread.
But I can't even remember what his personality was, other than self-righteous wankery. I thought he hated WoD.

What do you guys think about Kult? Is it worth? I want to hear from someone who's used to WoD or CofD if they have ever played the game and, if so, what they liked about it. Try not to focus on the ruleset it offers, I've heard the old rules are shit **even tho people like it**. I'm thinking about running a game for a few people (3 to 4 players) but I since everyone is used to WoD, I don't know if they'll like it.

>>50403940
>How many splats can there be in a party and being covered into a plot before it becomes Power Rangers: the game?

2 or 3, I'd say. Depends on the characters themselves as well, on how they interact and whatnot.

Anyone got the V20 Dark Ages, Tome of Secrets stuff that was sent out to backers? I'd love to give it a look over.

>>50401897
Yes.

I'm not gonna upload it though. It's on sale right now, if you want it so badly then pay the $15 or whatever.

What would you guy say is the best book to understand the sabbat?

>>50412210
>Paying for RPGs
You'll never get anywhere with that attitude, anon.

>>50412253
The Aristocrats

>>50412340
Actually buying books for that gameline is the best way to get more books made for that gameline.

A Ghouled professional baseball player that dopes via Vitae.

>>50413079
Professional athletes who dope via Crimson, a type of cocaine made with vitae mentioned in Tales from the Thirteenth Precinct.

>>50413046
Jokes on you, I haven't ever played an RPG written past 2005

The Brujah have united the city's gangs into a single, cohesive alliance. What they are doing with them remains to be seen.

CAN YOU DIG IT

>Mages can go no further than the shores of Oroboros. Even touching it is tantamount to entering the Abyss, and destroys the fool who does it. Mages sometimes cast things they don’t want into Oroboros. This includes memories, souls they wish to damn, and even material items they’ve converted into ephemera for the journey. One need merely imagine the act of throwing something in your (Astral) possession away and it vanishes forever.
>Touching the Ocean Ouroborous obliterates you now
>You can't bathe in it and come back missing the thing you wanted to divest yourself of forever.
Huh. I didn't notice (and strongly dislike) this change. I liked the Astral representation of the Abyss being the most "safe" version, where the danger was significantly more insidious. Now it's just "touch it and you die".

Hell, even touching the ACTUAL Abyss doesn't instantly annihilate you, unless that's changed too.

>>50412253
Go back and read the 2nd edition Players Guide to the Sabbat. Try to remember they embody the inherent contradictions of religious fundementalism. That gets lost in Revised, which was more like a love letter to action movies than anything else. All 20th Anniversary stuff is occasional diamonds buried in shit and currently too expensive to pay for with a straight face.

>>50413302
>You can't bathe in it and come back missing the thing you wanted to divest yourself of forever
This is the Astral.
The thing you want to divest yourself of can be presented as a separate entity.

Just throw it in.

>>50413356
Sure, but that imagery is way less creepy and neat than having to wade in and baptise yourself in the Ocean Oroboros like it was the River Jordan if you want to divest yourself of some metaphysical trait. The imagery and implications there were way more interesting than "touch it and die instantly". The idea that there was a version of the Abyss you could enter "safely" at ALL (and that in that version you're bathing your actual SOUL in it) was fucking creepy, unexpected, and disturbing.

>>50413638
Thing is, that's so antithetical to the nature of the Abyss usually, and so against player expectations I can't see any of my players actually wanting to do that, when they could otherwise just grab the Goetia of their fear of Dogs and throw it in.

>>50413302
I don't think that was ever a thing? Only Tremere do that.

>>50413665
>that's so antithetical to the nature of the Abyss usually, and so against player expectations I can't see any of my players actually wanting to do that, when they could otherwise just grab the Goetia of their fear of Dogs and throw it in.
If you can carry that all the way from your Oneiros all the way to the absolute far end of the Anima Mundi and actually pull it off, then go ahead. Otherwise that's a part of your soul, which is your Astral body, which you have to submerge into the Ocean Oroboros and then relinquish it (at which point it will claim it and you'll never have it again).

The fact that the Ocean Oroboros can do this, and is unusually """safe""" as an Astral representation of the Abyss is common knowledge for Astral travellers specifically BECAUSE it has a specific and reliable (although creepy) use (with some seriously distressing implications when you think about it). Sure the Astral Abyss works in ways you wouldn't expect from the regular Abyss, but that's part of what makes it interesting, and there are ways to find out ahead of time.

>>50413681
Sure it's a thing, I've got 1e Astral Realms open right now. The only bit I misremembered is that the waters come to you instead, if you want.
>Oroboros has one virtue: a mage can cast almost anything into the Abyssal deep, formally declare his sacrifice and concentrate (this costs a Willpower point) to divest himself of it forever. Oroboros’s waters wash over him and claim the abandoned trait. It vanishes from all realms. A mage who casts away his sight can never see through a pair of eyes again. A mage who casts away his body might vanish, while
his sleeping material body collapses into dust. Most visitors are content to use the phenomenon to relinquish curses or dangerous magical objects. Souls cannot cast away anything that is not theirs, and such definitions are based on symbolic truth instead of any form of legalese.
>Nobody knows what happens to mages who give their souls, minds or selves to the Last Ocean. Tradition holds that the Supernal Realms lie on the other side of Oroboros, but no astral barge or sailing ship has ever crossed the gulf. Oroboros is the end of everything.

Basically in 2e, touching the waters of Oroboros at ALL does the same thing as deliberately casting away your body and soul in 1e. I'm not sure what the reason is for this change, since it closes off a bunch of cool stories.

>>50413773
How would anything regarding the ass-end of the Anima Mundi, and the irrevocable destruction of a part of the world be common knowledge?

Also Mind can be used to fuck with your Astral representation in any way you like.
And if you're fucking with the Astral, you'd better have a Mind-Mage with you.

>>50413331
>Try to remember they embody the inherent contradictions of religious fundementalism

You mean the whole "We hate the camarilla but we have a masquerade of our own?"

>>50413846
It's common knowledge for Mages who actually travel the Anima Mundi, because it's fucking useful.

>Also Mind can be used to fuck with your Astral representation in any way you like.
Not once you're in there it can't. Things in the Astral respond to magic as though they're made of what they look like they're made of. You need Matter to affect an Astral door, for example - Mind is useful there.

>And if you're fucking with the Astral, you'd better have a Mind-Mage with you.
Not really? The only major advantage Mind provides in Astral Travel, at least once you're actually IN the Astral, is immediately being able to read the emotional resonance behind scenes and characters in the Oneiros and whatnot.

>>50413890
>You need Matter to affect an Astral door, for example - Mind is useful there.
Mind ISN'T any use there, I meant. A Mastigos can see which emotions that door represents using Mind, but that's about it.

The Astral is the Awakened's playground, not Path Mastigos's. Forces and Matters are just as hilariously useful as utility Arcana on the side of the Spire Perilous as they are in the material world.

>>50413910
>Mind ISN'T any use there, I meant
Okay, granted, you can't fuck with the scenery.
But you can make the inhabitants your bitch.

>>50413910
>The Astral is...not Path Mastigos's [Mastigos].

That's because everywhere else is.

>>50413820
It seems like you could still do that. Like you said, the water comes to you.

>>50414076
That's 1e text. 2e says that just touching the water obliterates you.
>Mages can go no further than the shores of Oroboros. Even touching it is tantamount to entering the Abyss, and destroys the fool who does it.

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>>50413848
That, and more.
>We are BETTER THAN HUMAN
(but we need structure, religion, social connections, a system of laws and we're not above making war on ourselves)
>we are TAKING ON THE ANTES
(by acting like dicks? Only confirmed kills are Lasombra and Tzimisce, both 800 years ago. At what point does this become lip service?)
>We OPPOSE THE CAMARILLA
There's our own Masquerade of sorts, yes, but there's also the fact that we allow all mortal infrastructure to remain, all mortal society to continue, even if we do act like dicks in total impunity. The other traditions are more or less represented, too - conditions on destroying another, conditions regarding the respect of territories and hierarchy.
>TRUE FREEDOM
with strict limits and enforced boundaries on acceptable behaviour

>>50415511
"Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must." Melian dialogue (Strassler (1996), 352/5.89).

It's a lot of Might makes right. And as much as the tagline -Mortals are beneath us- the theoretical motivated and informed might of Mankind can destroy vamp society very effectively. The strong man makes the rules, and either you work around the law or through the strong man.

>>50412185

I don't think anyone's shared it yet. You should keep an eye out on 7chan's tg board. They've got a really good request thread there stickied on the first page that's run really tight and professional. Furthermore, Tome of Secrets (along with W20: Shattered Dreams) has been requested multiple times there, so it's bound to pop up sooner or later.

https://7chan.org/tg/

>>50416490
Does it have Mage 2e pdf with errata?

>>50416778
No, they were told not to post it because of people like you

>>50416783
Do you have Mage 2e pdf with errata?

>>50416789
Yes

>>50400468
Isnt it obvious? Get a virgin to roll around in a tub full of moccasins and then leave her where baddy mcbad will feed

Hi. I'm new to World of Darkness (outside of playing and loving Bloodlines for many years), and I'm interested in running a VtR game in a VtM-style world. What books from WoD and NWoD (including CofD, as I expect I'll be using the latest versions of everything) should I pick up to get more information on the metanarrative behind VtM? In particular, I'm really interested in a more detailed depiction of everyday vampire life and nightlife in general, but I also want to learn as much as possible about the overarching plot involving Gehenna. I'm also fairly new to DMing in general.

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>>50417878
>VtM metaplot

>>50417888
I mean, there's some retarded stuff in it for sure, which is why I only mean to take bits and pieces of it. I want to build a game that I can kind of operate for the players as if it's a serialized TV show (mostly so that people can drop in and out), with the constant threat of the apocalypse looming over it all so that if for whatever reason the game has to be wrapped up, I can set those wheels in motion and end it on a big bang. But I don't want to just be pulling the details of that apocalypse out of my ass, I'd prefer to at least know what the proper lore surrounding it is and then tweak it as needed.

>>50415511

Love it already.

What's a good name for my White Howler Lupus Ahroun Abomination? He has a silver katana and twin silver-plated Dessert Eagle .50 calibre guns. He weres mirrorshades and he smokes all the time but he never looks at explosions

I've finally had a chance to read Mage 2e with the errata, yet still have a number of questions.

For instance, the Prime 3 Platonic Form spell still leaves a lot of issues unanswered and/or the spell might just be impractical or too costly to actually use, particularly since mana is a lot more scarce in 2e.

Is base duration for any item created just a single turn?

Can the spell be used to create items like food? For example, can it be used to create an apple, steak or wine? If so, is the food and drink nutritious and is it "real" food in all respects, even after consumed? Would food and drink be considered "complex items" requiring the use of +2 Reach? Would the food be edible Tass?

If you use Platonic Form to create a compute, car or other electronic or mechanical device, does the item work and act like the real device in all respects? Would you still need to plug in the platonic computer or fill up the platonic car?

If you use the spell to create a platonic identification card or key, will the item act like a "universal" identification (e.g., Dr. Who psychic paper) or skeleton key, respectively?

If you create a platonic gun, does it include ammunition, or does that require additional Reach or spell penalties?

>>50419098
>I've finally had a chance to read Mage 2e with the errata

Say it ain't so, I'll miss your twice daily begging

>>50419098
>mana is a lot more scarce in 2e.
Just scour.

>>50419139

I'm a different Anon. I bought the book a while ago, but only recently had the time to thoroughly read it.

I was not only waiting for the errata, but actually hoping for the promised Mage FAQ before digging-down in the new rules. I now doubt we will see the FAQ any time soon.

>>50419098
>Is base duration for any item created just a single turn?
Yes

>Can the spell be used to create items like food? For example, can it be used to create an apple, steak or wine?
Yes

>If so, is the food and drink nutritious and is it "real" food in all respects, even after consumed? Would food and drink be considered "complex items" requiring the use of +2 Reach?

Dave can confirm if he likes, but based on previous answers:
- if you want it to act like food instead of just being the manifested consept of food, YES you need to make it a complex object
- if you want it to look like a real apple or a particular apple rather than just looking like the concept "Apple", you need the Forces 3 effect as well.

>Would the food be edible Tass?
Platonic Forms are definitively NOT Tass, ergo you don't gain the mana within the PF by consuming it.

>If you use Platonic Form to create a compute, car or other electronic or mechanical device, does the item work and act like the real device in all respects? Would you still need to plug in the platonic computer or fill up the platonic car?
Function: only if it's a complex device.
Power: Unclear, I err on Yes. Or you could use a Forces 3 spell to mimic an appropriate power source.

>If you use the spell to create a platonic identification card or key, will the item act like a "universal" identification (e.g., Dr. Who psychic paper) or skeleton key, respectively?
By default no, people recognise it as ID, but not the right ID. Likewise locks recognise it as a key, but not the key that unlocks them. You need to use the Forces 3 effect to make it a particular key, a relevant ID or give a human F a particular person's face

>If you create a platonic gun, does it include ammunition, or does that require additional Reach or spell penalties?
As with gas in the PF car, unclear but I say yes.

>>50419159
>mana is a lot more scarce in 2e.
>Just scour.

Scouring is still limited, causes resistant damage, and the small amount of mana is still needed for other important matters like Mage Armor, Paradox mitigation, non-Ruling spell casting, etc.

At least on cursory review, Platonic Form just seems both very mana expensive and requires the use of onerous spell penalties to create anything truly useful, no less something that might last an entire scene.

Unless I'm missing something, I now see why many people were discussing how Acanthus with Ruling Fate and Time are the new top-tier Path.

>>50418730

Caliber40-lives-on-edge

>>50419227
To clarify some of this, on Platonic Forms DaveB has said they're not objects, they're like glowing magical flashcards that say "Apple" or "Sword" or "Cat" and then people interpret that as what they picture generically when they think of that object.

You need the Forces 3 effect to make it appear non-magical and appear particularly as you want it to (ie. green lantern powers).

And when I asked what a Platonic Form Human looked like (without Forces 3 effect), he used this scene as an example, which makes an ok reference for visualising the spell's effect:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwSWRdbSQK0#t=2m12s

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>>50417878
Honestly, there's not one consolidated guide/thing. The Gehenna lore is spread over almost every major book in the line, both Camarilla and Sabbat books. Clanbooks, weird shit like the Time of Thin Blood books and other things. You might be better off compiling Gehenna stuff from a wiki or find someone's website for their game.

As far as running a VtR game in a VtM world, if you use 1e, you can use the Vampire Translation Guide which talks about using Masquerade's setting and powers and such with NWoD mechanics.

Additionally, you'll definitely want the Gehenna book... but don't take it as canon. The Gehenna book is four large, and about six small, scenarios of 'what might be' for Gehenna. A good source of it is also the Gehenna novel, which treats the Withering section as canon. Ultimately Gehenna was set up for STs to pick-and-choose their ending.

Good luck.

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>>50418730
12-year-old-me-masturbation-fantasy-3edgy5me

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Hey pandora I augmented your guy's suit. It was, just, so Exploitable!

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>>50400468

I'm gonna give you this as a favor. First. Go into torpor when that happens. Second... One of you is going to have to get bitten by a snake.

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This is why we don't go to Tokyo.

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>>50419774
What am I looking for?

beast is literally a game about internet flamewars

The joke with their interactions with Demon is that Demons are literally mods who stopped modding to be normal fucking people and they're still mods.

Alternatively, it's OH GOD THE FBI FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK

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>>50419804

I forgot the symbolic/cultural connection between London and Tokyo. Like, that's Magic right there, but, it's also Infrastructure.

The London Consillium is now filled with Sleepwalkers. It's impolite to stare.

Does Mage 2e still have the rule where you get one free mana to use when casting at a Hallow?

>>50420071
No, but when you get exceptional success on a spell you can choose to recover cost of that spell + 1 Mana, so Mana isn't hard to get.

>>50419918
But that's wrong and makes no sense.

>>50417878
I have a complete timeline of OWoD's universe, if you want it posted. It's kind of a mess in formatting, but it's pretty damn comprehensive.

>>50420502
pls post.

>>50420502

Loomer, don't post the project yet. You have to sell it to Paradox!

>>50420522
http://pastebin.com/87TrH0Dd
It's quite a read

>>50420522
>>50420566
Shit, the entire thing didn't paste properly. Here's the full version
http://pastebin.com/MdX3SA6x

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>>50418730
>He weres mirrorshades
>weres

>>50419918
>OH GOD THE FBI FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK
But that's how Demons react to everything.

>>50420722
>The Followers of Set arrive in Africa 6000 years before Set was born

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>>50421515

>>50420150
>hen you get exceptional success on a spell you can choose to recover cost of that spell + 1 Mana, so Mana isn't hard to get.

Exceptional success aren't that common for beginning and often mid-level characters.

>>50422598
They are if you spam your Praxes all the goddamn time, and inlude yantras.

A starting character can reliably instant-cast a spell with 8 dice using one yantra, if the spell is from the arcanum they've got 3 dots in (invest in maxed-out shadow name, and take cabal theme, then make sure your persona and cabal's theme are both usable for your praxis). When you only need 3 successes, 8 dice is good enough to get that fairly often. If you REALLY need the Exceptional, burn Willpower. Or just wait until you hit Gnosis 2.

>>50423352
>ComeON guys why can't we waste game time and all do the mango dance for another twenty cycles?

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>>50398951
>Why is Obama playing Russian Roulette?
Well, you know, it's one of those convoluted manga plots.

>>50418730
The best/worst thing about Werewolf is that dual-wielding klaives and Garou martial arts are totally canon.

>>50423503
I don't like 2e's baffling dependency on rolling Exceptional Successes all the time if you want critical resources (XP, Mana, etc.), no.

Tell me about your homebrews /wod-cofd/

>>50425173
Redone Purified are my baby. Still weak as shit, even weaker than the base ones really, but 2e compliant and much broader since they can now be made from any non-mortal realm rather than just the Shadow.

>>50425173
See
>>50398338
It's still a work in progress, considering there's billions of things to convert, but it's getting there.

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>>50424126
>Ex sux is the only way to get X
You know if you read the book Anon you wouldn't be so poor

>>50425956
I didn't say exceptional successes were the only source of Beats or Mana. They are however the primary source of Conditions (and Conditions are the primary source of Beats), and the primary source of Mana.

>>50425232
>Still weak as shit
Weren't they really powerful?

>>50426166
>>50424126
I feel like you're "doing it wrong".
Just because the game rewards you for doing a thing doesn't mean it expects you to SOLELY do that thing over and over again to the detriment of anything else.
It's rewards for playing the game, not rewards for ignoring the game.

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>>50426166
>continues to not read the book
Just study Anon, it's really not that hard. This is why you're repeating highschool

>>50426285
I can see why he makes that assumption, but he's doing that thing that a lot of people do where they assume they have to hoard things. He considers it the primary source of Conditions and the primary source of Mana, but he doesn't understand that they're meant to reward you with those things when you need them, *not* to constantly have them.

Praxes give Conditions, Conditions are the source of Beats. But you're not supposed to be loading up on Conditions left and right, they're going to be coming naturally.

Need advice. Setting a story in Portland Maine. Coastal town. First two episodes are possibly set up with the bulk of episode one already wrote. Question: without railroading, how do I ensure one of the player meets a character in order to get the episode rolling?

>>50426405
Use the illusion of choice. All paths lead to the same destination

>>50426339
>Loading up on Conditions

Actually self handicapping for more beats in a scene is a legitimate method of beat gain. There is like a side bar. the only stipulation is that you have to complete the resolution before the spell fades.

It eats a spell slot while active, but if you're willing to tough it out. more beats. I mean the system really rewards you for self sabotage

>>50426405
This: >>50426521

Specifically, give them both a carrot to chase after and then just have both carrots cross through the same area at the same time.

>>50426521
>illusion of choice
Pretty much, Nothing is real until you tell the players what happened.

>>50426521
>>50426554

Alright thanks.

>>50426536
It is. I'm not doubting or trying to contradict that. I mean, obviously if you're EXPERIENCING more things, you'll get more Experiences.
My point is that ignoring most of the game just to cast spells like you're in a Harry Potter class isn't how the "you get rewarded for doing things" mechanics, like gaining Mana or Conditions for Exceptionals, are meant to be used.

>>50426285
I've read the books. I've been playing 2e games, weekly, since they came out. This is how Beats work.

>>50426802
No, that's how you've been making them work. If you're who I think you are, this is repeatedly clear. Your group doesn't like Conditions or Beats and doesn't want to use them properly, so you've been carrying your team by forcing yourself to get Conditions by rolling whenever possible.

That's not necessary. You're forcing the game to go double time because you feel that if you don't, you're somehow going to fall behind. That's not the pace of the game as intended.

>>50426802
>>50426933
yeah not much can be done about a failing group Anon

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>>50425173
Working on a semi-Purified splat similar to Sin-Eaters. They can produce and sculpt ephemera, and either "claim" Spirits for their abilities, or forge Fetishes.

Strongly inspired by what Paranatural used to be.

>>50399884

There's a good game hiding somewhere in Beast. It just needs a really good supplement or historical setting.

>>50427432
It needs an inherent conflict.

And no, the Beast/Hero thing isn't a conflict. Heroes are an obstacle, sort of like Paradox and Abyssal intrusions are in Mage.

>>50429048
It has the same "A monster I am lest a monster I become" conflict as Masquerade and is handled about as well
And without the benefit of a setting to support it, other than "buy the other WoD books!"

>>50429073
Masquerade has political entities within the Camarilla, that causes inherent conflict. There is also this huge Camarilla vs. Sabbat conflict going on.
The whole setting is built on a young vs. old conflict.

So no. There is certainly conflict in Masquerade.

Question about augment mind/honing the form. At higher gnosis wouldn't it always be better to use a combined spell vs the reach effect which divides the potency?

>>50429525
Combined with what?

>>50429628
A second Augment the Mind spell that augments a different Attribute, ostensibly.

I have no idea if you can combine slightly different versions of the same spell in that manner, though.

>>50429743
Wouldn't work. Only the highest potency spell goes into effect. Or presumably the first one, if they are all equal.

>>50429819
in 1e that only worked if they produced the same effect, so a spell that boosted Resolve would not be superceded by a higher-potency spell that boosted Intelligence (it DID mean that a spell that boosted Resolve by 1 would supercede a spell that boosted Resolve by 5 if they got the Potency high enough, since the number for the increase was equal to the caster's Mind dots and had nothing to do with the spell's Potency).

I'm not sure how similar spells have to be in 2e to supercede each other.

Under accessing the Astral, using a Hallow:
>Absorb and then spend Mana from the Hallow equal to 6 minus the Hallow’s rating.
Does this mean trying to meditate into a Hallow of rating 2 or lower takes multiple days? A rating 2 Hallow only produces 2 Mana per day, and you need to absorb and then expend 4 Mana to enter the Astral.

A rating 4 Hallow could only enable entry for 2 people per day, if each of them has to absorb and then expend 2 Mana to enter the Astral. A rating 3 Hallow produces exactly enough Mana per day to allow one person to enter the Astral.

So when is OPP going to realize Werewolf is the only good line, jettison all the other WoD crap, and usher in a glorious Werewolf Reich?

>>50430341
Ostensibly in the parallel timeline where werewolf being the best line is actually true.

>>50430347
That's this timeline. Werewolf is the best.

>>50426232
>Weren't they really powerful?

Most powerful in Immortals because they were the only ones with actual powers. But compared to a gameline splat they were mush, just bloody difficult to keep down if you weren't a werewolf or Geist.

Like I said, mine are probably weaker and overall more vulnerable, but more versatile

>>50430341
>>50430382
Werewolf is certainly the best 2e update, but I don't know if it's the best game.

>>50430603
I'll concede that individual tastes can influence any given person's rankings of the lines. Really, I'd be content with just shooting Vampire and Beast into space.

>>50430637
Vampire 2e was also really good, though it didn't overhaul things as much as werewolf. I don't mind Beast, though it is one big reminder of how worthless Geist is beyond the neat concept. I really hope Geist 2e is like Werewolf 2e.

>>50430637
I can understand Beast, but why vampire? I think it's fine despite the meh update and the Strix filling the entire antagonist spot.

>>50430974
Anon is shit posting again

>>50427432
No. Not if McFarland and his opinions on how the line *should* work stays in charge of it.

Reading up on Changeling; The rules on opening gateways are a bit unclear. It says that changelings can open any gate, or even create one of their own. Are mortals able to open preexisting gates?

>>50427432

It's a decent antagonist splat, but an absolutely terrible Mainline Game.

hey guys what should I name my supermodel anarch gargoyle thaumaturge? she has a pet dog called mr fwuffle, he's a pecaneez-shitsoo crossbreed pureblood. he swore vengeance on the wolf that killed his parents. my girlgoyle is along for the ride.

>>50430012

Yes, it does.

>>50430974
Vampire's just a weird game that doesn't know what it wants to do. The immortality doesn't matter because players don't have it in them to enjoy 40 years of downtime doing absolutely nothing; the politics of Vampire society make anti-sense, as there's no believable reason the systems that are the norm would be the norm; you have a host of powers and then precious little to actually use them on, especially because the social merits tend to fulfill all your ambitions better...

Vampire's just dull.

>>50432589
Hey Dave, can Prime only detect sincerity of belief?
Spells refer to them being unable to be used for lie detection e.g. "My Mentor is Dead" won't display as Truth unless you know it's true, regardless of whether it was.

But what if your memories have been modified, or you are mistaken but have every reason to believe the person is dead?

Surely saying "he's dead" would then be able to test theories.
Otherwise you'd have to make every claim based on personal belief. Assertations of what you think the truth is, which can only be judged your own merit.

>>50432652
>Spells refer to them being unable to be used for lie detection
Correction, they can't be used for theory testing.

Secrets of the Covenants release when?

>>50432589
Hey, Dave, didn't you say that "Banisher" is primarily a political term, and that anyone who hunts or kills other Mages could be considered a Banisher, not necessarily people who want to banish all magic?

>>50432609
>Vampire's just a weird game that doesn't know what it wants to do. The immortality doesn't matter because players don't have it in them to enjoy 40 years of downtime doing absolutely nothing; the politics of Vampire society make anti-sense, as there's no believable reason the systems that are the norm would be the norm; you have a host of powers and then precious little to actually use them on, especially because the social merits tend to fulfill all your ambitions better...
>Vampire's just dull.

I agree, while i like the covenants/politics because i dont get how not all vampires walk into the sunrise once they understand what they are all about. The covenants are the answer to that question, what do we do?

However as a game it gives you all this magic and power like blood armor to inflict stupidly fun levels of violence but doesnt give you any outlet to that.

At least the sabbat had the shovel head as an excuse as to why anyone would think of a combination of disciplines to become the guy from prototype.

>>50432609
Depends on what you are looking for.
With the themes of realpolitik, mastering or falling prey to your own monster, dealing with the life you left behind, I always enjoyed Vampire when played to it's core themes, rather than vampire superheroes.

>>50432609
>>50433390
I have no idea how you come to these conclusions. The game is about being in a cold war with everyone around you and trying not to let it all flare out. *Most* of the powers of Vampire aren't super flashy or badass until the highest levels, and even then a lot of them are more protective (like Oubliette). Most of their powers are centered around getting their way through mental manipulation, and those *do* tend to get used a lot. I've never understood why people feel the Covenants don't make sense, or why vampire society doesn't work. I guess a lot of it is more down to players: Everyone treats vampires as if they're just waiting to be in a room alone so they can start going for diablerie. Yes, there's that whole Cannibal Totem Pole thing, but there's also the fact that you're a lonely fucker who wants people to talk to.

Vampire is a game about being a monster and feeling bad about it, but also realizing that being a monster is hella cool.

>However as a game it gives you all this magic and power like blood armor to inflict stupidly fun levels of violence but doesnt give you any outlet to that.
>At least the sabbat had the shovel head as an excuse as to why anyone would think of a combination of disciplines to become the guy from prototype.
Vampires can punch a guy real good, and do some crazy bullshit, but usually it's one use shows of power as opposed to balls to the wall action. Spilling your blood and summoning every animal in Central Park to frenzy on someone isn't really an every day occurrence. Both because it's crazy and powerful and unnecessary, and also expensive. You've got really awesome powers, but you're rarely going to *need* to use something like Juggernaut's Gait. It's just really useful when you *do*.

I mean, think back to the video game. If you never pissed off LaCroix, you never would have known his stubby armed sidekick turned into a giant fuckoff huge gargoyle.

>>50432589
>Yes, it does.
Do you have to do it on a contiguous series of days, and then do your Astral journey on the last day? If so, I assume that makes it impossible for a group of people with more members than the Hallow's dot-rating to use that Hallow to enter the Astral.

Or do you just need to have done this at some point with that Hallow to sufficiently attune yourself to it to be able to use it to enter the Astral in the future, like with a Demesne you have permission to use from the Soul Stone's owner?

So, which do you prefer? Chronicles of Darkness or World of Darkness?

>>50435110
Chronicles, but I got into nWod last year, so was WAY too late to join oWoD.

>>50435110

I exclusively play Chronicles but I do like a lot of WoD stuff.

>>50435142
No reason you can't get started with the 20th anniversary edition if you want.

I've been a nWoDbabby since like 2005, but I decided to give VtM a go after V20 came out and I've thoroughly enjoyed it so far. Another guy in my group gave W20 a go and sings its praises whenever he gets the chance.

>>50435486
Just for clarification: this isn't a "we switched over to oWoD and never looked back" post, it's "now we play both and enjoy both".

>Complete draft of Wraith 20 by end of December

This book better be 7000 pages long.

>>50435566
It isn't. Dansky keeps getting contracted to write Call of Duty campaigns or something (one of those big AAA IPs, at least), which pays a hell of a lot better than freelance work for OPP, so his Wraith writing keeps getting put on the back burner.

Very few people who write for OPP have "write for OPP" as their primary job.

>>50435602

So what you're saying is that it's actually 9000 pages long.

>>50435619
It's probably 30 pages long, with what OPP is paying their writers.

Or it's 9000 pages long and 8950 of those pages is Tom Clancy stories, courtesy of Ubisoft.

>>50435634

So that's why all those Tom Clancy games have been about ghosts! Sneaky. I like it.

>>50435653
So anyone with a PS4 has basically already played Wraith20, just with more guns?

>>50435110

I started with NWoD back in 1st edition the i give, reclutantly, OWoD a try and i love it and never look back to NWod.

Shitty combat rulea aside to me the mechanics are unintrusive enough as to not get in my way when i run whatever i like.

Never been a fan of NWOD mechanics to enforce themes. Ex: behavior scales and the like.

>>50435697
>Never been a fan of NWOD mechanics to enforce themes.
I'm not sure what you mean by this, at least in terms of 1e nWoD. By "behaviour scales" do you mean the Morality stats? Because VtM still has a Humanity score. It actually has MORE of those, when you include things like Virtue rolls.

>>50435693

I mean, the clues are all there:

>Tom Clancy: Ghost Recon
>Tom Clancy: Ghost Recon 2
>Tom Clancy: Spectre Force
>Tom Clancy: Ghost Rude
>Tom Clancy: Rainbow Six: Echo Alpha Squad 4: Wraith Coalition
>Tom Clancy: Ghost: Ghost: Ghost

>>50435720

Yes i mean morality scales but when one uses the generalization of morality scales there always a pedantic nwod fan that cries "its not a morality scale because is being good doesnt factor in. No wonder you dont like them as you dont get them"

Masquerade also has then but unlike requiem 2nd edition is not tied to many other mechanics except frenzy so one can remove/ignore it without much trouble.

And there were paths so one can always try a different set of morality if humanity didnt mix with your concept.

Aside from that the other lines didnt had anynof those. Werewolves and mages didnt have behavior scales in owod.

>>50435854
Dont forget
>Tom Clancy 2: The ghostening.

>>50435870
>Yes i mean morality scales but when one uses the generalization of morality scales there always a pedantic nwod fan that cries "its not a morality scale because is being good doesnt factor in. No wonder you dont like them as you dont get them"
Being good absolutely does factor into them, at least in 1e. In 2e that's less the case, but 1e Humanity was identical to Morality (which was about how much of a bad person you're unwilling to be), and 1e Wisdom was literally Morality, including all the Morality sins, and then also extra magic-related sins tacked on.

The only ones I can think of that weren't about whether you were a good or bad person were Werewolf and Geist, in 1e (and Mummy, though that came out really late).

>>50436414

I agree with you. However i did read 2nd edition and i still preffer owod, my disliking of the intrusiveness of nwod is even higher on 2nd.

>>50435870
>Humanity was always a morality scale
>You gain difficulty to social rolls
>No one uses or reads those rule
>Paths of what I was going to do anyways

So Bloodthemed super heros it is then

>>50432609
>the politics of Vampire society make anti-sense, as there's no believable reason the systems that are the norm would be the norm
>>50433390

Check out the Covenants in the DanceMacabra if you want more proactive politics. Crone is about converting all others into themselves so that they become the monsters they should be. Lance is all about doing the most evil to bring back God. Invitus becomes the CAM. Cart destroy the masquerade. and the Dragons become transmorphic Demons.

So is anyone else here excited for Dresden Files Accelerated or the rest of the Urban Shadows content?

>>50437823

Yes and yes, though I don't talk about them too much here. I like FAE more than Core, and US is the game I would use for a CofD crossover game instead of the regular system.

>>50438129

I want to get into Urban Shadows but all of the stretch goal stuff taking a million years has really put me off on it. Like, the city stuff and new Archetypes are two years late, with no updates from the devs in six months?

The Party wants to take over the docks, all maffia style. How Do?

>>50438152

Given that the stretch goals are almost all by other writers, there's at least a hand explanation for their lateness. The Archetypes...not so much.

>>50423352
There's now a discussion on the OPP forums about this whole praxis-spamming business, and it looks like, yes, Mages ARE supposed to be looking for every available opportunity to cast their Praxes over and over whenever they need Mana or Willpower (or just want Beats).

What would be an appropriate build for a mage that uses Simo Haya's Mosin-Nagant and loads spells into his bullets?

I'm thinking either legend or wonder background and focus on the forces, correspondence and prime spheres?

How playable is Demon: the Descent? I find some of the concepts interesting but it looks like a real challenge to run.

>>50438384
Depends on the party.
Different groups, their connection to the world, etc all would have an impact on how they do it and the response of the world.
Vampires using shady deals is not the same as werewolves going riptear and buying blighted properties.

>>50436841

That or just make judgement calls on what or isnt a humanity loss on the context of the PC in question.

To me morality being defined mechanically is on the same vein of playing an RPG in which your should roll for your personality. Is something that shouldnt have a mechanic because there is too many buts and maybes in there for a system to handle.

>>50438709

It's a pretty straightforward spy game, shouldn't bee too tough as long as your players are familiar with the genre.

>>50438967
>owod humanity was the ten commandments

2edHumanity is not a morality system.It is the measure of how human you still are. The mechanics deal with how much your banes fuck you over. Besides the main ones fire and sunlight, you the player can choose the banes the character develops. And as we've seen the mechanics are more forgiving in comparison to masquerade

So hey, I need some advice from the more historically minded.

A player of mine is making an Acanthus Mystagogue with a focus on Spirit, whose Shadow Name is Dionysus and who has a Familiar of Inebriation. Who also has created a Mystery Cult about Spirit worship, and promoting hedonistic behaviour.

However he's now trying to find a Legacy which would suit him, and I'm trying to help. The only Legacy I can really see which would fit would be the Bene Ashmadi, but he's not interested in Mind, or working with such diabolist pricks.

Does anyone have another Legacy they might suggest, or advice on how to construct a Legacy from the Supernal symbolism which finds a resting place amidst the pancryptia of the Dionysus myth?

>>50439204
For the most part in VtM you can avoid having to roll Humanity in the first place by just not being a dick. Some VtR Detachment triggers are unavoidable (or nigh-unavoidable).

>>50439222
Bene Ashmedai grants Spirit, not Mind. The Legacy is like 95% Mastigos, who already HAVE Mind.

Anyway, are you playing 1e or 2e?

>>50439204

Yes but as morality what is humanity is pretty subjective, and i didnt said that humanity is masquerade was better by itself but that one can remove it without much issue, when in requiem 2nd is tied to banes and sunlight damage.

Personally i preffer owod where humanity can be ignore or in the case of other splat there isnt any behavior scale and i have run requiem with masquerade rules without any problem.

>>50439414

You're playing a game about personal horror. Moral degradation is key to most of these games, but Vampire especially. Asking to remove the heart of the game is downright silly; if you want a Vampire game without Humanity, then Dresden Files and Urban Shadows are right over there.

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>>50439273
At one point you're complaining it's a morality system. the next you say it isn't

Humanity Rating Moral Guideline
10 Selfish thoughts
9 Minor selfish acts
8 Injury to another (accidental or otherwise)
7 Theft
6 Accidental violation (drinking a vessel dry out of starvation)
5 Intentional property damage
4 Impassioned violation (manslaughter, killing a vessel in frenzy)
3 Planned violation (outright murder, savored exsanguination)
2 Casual violation (thoughtless killing, feeding past satiation)
1 Utter perversion or heinous acts
0 No moral values. Must sleep, must feed, must kill

That is a morality system

requiem doesn't use a morality system. It uses a HEY are you still human system? Likewise you can also avoid most detachments. Like not fighting like a superhero. Not joining covenants. Not living longer than a natural Human. Not becoming powerful. Not seeing reminders that YOU ARE A WALKING CORPSE Deal with this. Thats a central theme of the game Anon.

Like as been said here >>50439204
>The mechanics deal with how much your banes fuck you over. Besides the main ones fire and sunlight, you the player can choose the banes the character develops. And as we've seen the mechanics are more forgiving in comparison to masquerade

Humanity is not a personality trait. And has been falling away from being a morality trait with new editions. The only way to not roll any humanity is to not play vampire

>>50438699
Every reasonable opportunity, sure, but not just sitting around casting magic, which is what plenty of people treat it as.

>>50439060
That's a pretty hard genre to begin with. Not that guy, but I find Demon to be hard to play.

>>50439489
Brook is the perfect Nos. Nicest guy, but the skull is the dead give away. Nos always get fucked over by their clan flaw.

Also before people forgets!! Buying back Humanity is way cheaper in Requiem 2ed that it very was before. For the cost of a new skill you can regain 1/10 of your human soul back. Now that's a Bargain

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I agreed to attend a VtM LARP that's going on today and I'm fucking panicking, have any of you LARPed this shit before? Am I going to be killed IRL by neckbeards in unfitted robes?

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>>50439634
As a virgin you will be feed to the highest ranking manbat in town. You will be "tenderized" by large bull men and larger bull cowgirls who think they can be sexy for an hour. Roses and Mirrors will adorn the walls. One of the matriarchs will descend from the fabled ST office and assign you a personality and life goals, you have no way to accomplish. In order to march you around the staged theater in a dance which will be your swan song. And they will laugh when they see you covered in red confetti of their blood. as they are all paper dolls

>>50439457

1) Dresden Files is FATE and FATE is shit.

2) I prefer humanity to not have a mechanic element to it.

3) As you said PERSONAL horror, the one-size fits all of Requiem 2ed behavior scale is why i dont like it.

The whys of loosing humanity (or morality in the case of other splats) shouldnt, IMO, be made into a mechanic.

>>50435720
>By "behaviour scales" do you mean the Morality stats?

>>50435870
>Yes i mean morality scales but when one uses the generalization of morality scales there always a pedantic nwod fan that cries "its not a morality scale because is being good doesnt factor in. No wonder you dont like them as you dont get them"

>>50439204
>2edHumanity is not a morality system

>>50439489
>hat is a morality system
>requiem doesn't use a morality system.

Like clockwork

>>50439752

Fate is probably my favorite system on the market, and Requiem's isn't one-size-fits-all, every character has custom triggers.And personal horror needs mechanics or else you end up with everyone ignoring it in favor of vampire superheroes.

>>50439295
2e, also most complementary abilities require Mind.

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>>50439787
Some truths are too self evident

>>50439752
Run the game yourself without the rule if you hate it so much

>>50439634
been larping since 2000. shits ok to awesome depending on the group. i suppose it could also be horrible.

also depends on what rule system they're using, i guess.

>>50439840
In 2e you're going to have to invent your own entire writeup anyway, so just homebrew a Legacy based around the symbology and theming of classical gods. Probably Free Council heavy. May involve invoking powerful beings from the Temenos at higher levels.

>>50439634
You've been tricked by too much time at tabletop, LARP is for girls who want to dress up and talk shit about each other in a harmless environment for fun. Bring an old suit, stat the character for declawing cats and you'll be fine.

PS. You will spend time awkwardly not knowing who to talk to, but everyone has been in that position before and would be happy to introduce you to shit. Ask them, don't wait to be approached.

How many dots in Prime do you think is needed to make a spell the doubles reach costs for a scene . Fluffing it as making it harder to see the supernal truths and symbols? Basically a spell that makes casters risk Paradox more than usual

>>50439858
>Run the game yourself without the rule if you hate it so much

yup, thats why i run masquerade ignoring Humanity.

>>50440685
I'd say 4, Practise of Unravelling

>>50439834
>And personal horror needs mechanics or else you end up with everyone ignoring it in favor of vampire superheroes.
Or you could just play with players who don't need to be bludgeoned by the system into roleplaying and engaging with the themes.

>>50441341

Rules exist to reinforce themes. If they didn't, we'd all be playing BRP for everything, or doing freeform.

>>50441370
I'm not the only who said that without the humanity system everyone will inevitably go straight to vampire superheroes.

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>>50441100
>people on tg/ actually run games

>>50439634
You rang? been LARPing since 2004, regularly in both NWoD and OWoD. Tell me a little about the group you're going to be going to join.

>>50441370

Or....or.....and i know this blew your small mind but, there is a middle ground in which the system can give you rules for doing all the mental/physical/magic stuff but what your character feels is purview of the player.

It seems you limiting yourself to either a system that has mechanics to choose your own name or "if everything doesnt have mechanics it will turn to vampions: superheroes with fangs. Player shouldnt be trusted in any way"

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>>50441985
Or....or.....and i know this blew your small mind but, you could try not posting on 4chan

>>50441985
Stop pretending it isn't trivial to remove morality stat and leaving everything else.

>>50442066

In masquerade it isnt, in requiem 2ed though i will have to see how much damage sun should do.

In werewolf harmony is tied to shapeshifting and crossing the gauntlet.

And in mage wisdom is tie to paradox.

However i can just bypass all of that and play owod instead :o

>>50442221
>owod didn't have mechanics for sun, gauntlet, and paradox

>>50442221
>In masquerade it isnt, in requiem 2ed though i will have to see how much damage sun should do.
everyone has humanity 7 now. solved
>In werewolf harmony is tied to shapeshifting and crossing the gauntlet.
in werewolf it isn't really morality, but leaning more to your spirit/flesh part, so you can either keep it or say: "i feel i resonate better with my spirit side today" - bam harmony 3. solved
>And in mage wisdom is tie to paradox.
everyone has wisdom 7 now. solved

>>50433864
What realpolitik, though? The whole political game set up of Vampire is nonsensical. There's no resource scarcity. All competition in Vampire is artificial and fueled by personal melodrama.. but why do the Vampires care? The Beast, the Predatory Aura, frenzies- these things make Vampires congregating or interacting too risky to be worth it, especially when the pay off is minuscule. Just blood bond a resourceful mortal and live at whatever status bracket you personally desire, never wanting for anything.

>>50434447
>The game is about being in a cold war with everyone around you and trying not to let it all flare out
The best way to let it not "flare out" is to ditch all the systems and just enjoy immortality on your own. The Court system and the passion plays make no sense.

>>50435110
nWoD >>>> oWoD.

>>50442460
>What realpolitik, though? The whole political game set up of Vampire is nonsensical. There's no resource scarcity. All competition in Vampire is artificial and fueled by personal melodrama

That and ideological bullshit

>>50442460

It exists because the game needs it to exist, the same reason that every other splat's society exists. It's why Beast gave up on trying to put a society in. Every single nWoD creature would be better off on their own, and if they existed in the real world, they would be.

Eventually, you just have to accept that it's just a game.

>>50442455

You are not giving me a good argument as to why not just play owod.

>>50442460
I think predatory auras are gone from 2nd edition.

>>50442455
>according to owod all vamps would be humanity 3 or 4. for one or two agg each tick

>>50442615
Man is social creature that needs society more than society needs any one man

>>50442601
The ideological bullshit really shouldn't exist in the first place. Like...

>>50442615

This says, I get that. The systems at play in Vampire do a great job of enforcing the tone Vampire wants: a game of courtly intrigue, drama, politics and competition, where everyone smiles with too many sharp teeth.

But that system would not organically arise from the Vampire condition as described in the game. Vampires have no strong reasons to gather and group up ideologically, to fuck and scheme and compete and befriend.

As written, vampires would all strive to avoid one another as much as possible.

>>50442460
Except that inmortality being....eternal, living forever and ever in perfect confort is gonna drive you nuts.

Having a perfect predictable night every night for 100 of years in insolation because you cant talk honestly to humans so they arent exactly on the same level as you. Thats kind of a hellish existence.

In part is true the politics of vampires are fueled vy pettyness because vampires dont have anything better to do with their time because time is limitless to them.

>>50441273
Makes sense. But wouldnt do the trick too? Your not really drstroying more of hiding magic/truthS

>>50442694
You can talk to them honestly, though. Ghoul them. Blood bond them. Just pay them lots of money or even genuinely befriend them. After all, Vampires require Touchstones. It's *other Vampires* that are bad for them and force them to scheme and hide and misdirect.

Now, older Vampires eventually becoming bored and suicidal, and so causing trouble or dealing with other Vampires, sure, that's believable. But a society wouldn't spawn from that.

>>50442680
>The ideological bullshit really shouldn't exist in the first place
Religion shouldn't exist either, but GUESS WHAT?! Jihad Crusade Motherfucker

Stop being diluted. It's all fucking make up to cover up the fact that their monsters. Vamp emulate Man, because they still think like men, and don't want to forget that feeling. It's mostly the only thing keeping themselves into bitch fighting each other.

>>50442620
because you weren’t asking for any arguments. you pretended that it's hard to remove morality from nwod

>>50442635
we are talking removing morality, not making nwod same as owod. also in nwod you can't soak sun damage

>>50442765
>Religion shouldn't exist either, but GUESS WHAT?! Jihad Crusade Motherfucker
Jyhad was dumb as balls and ditching it was one of the best things Requiem ever did.

And religion makes perfect sense, if you ever dive into its historical origins.

>>50442768
No, i was saying that i dislike behavior scales in nwod and instead of changing 3 lines i just stick to owod.

>>50442800
He's referencing actual real-world behaviors about religious craziness.

>>50442800
I'm saying in a purely rational and pragmatic world. We wouldn't form ideology or religion. but we as in mankind don't live in that world. So why would we expect monsters that are derived from man, to suddenly change their thinking?

People are going to disagree and fight each other.

As far as resource scarcity. It would really define what you consider food? Low level= animals. Mid level= Humans. Yes their all around but how do you do safely? Are you worried about getting caught? Do you have preferred choice? I mean theorically we could all just eat rice and noodles for the rest of our lives. But we don't. I mean right there between the Low and Mid you're already running into qualifiers about the kind of blood you'll eat. Scarcity is about as much of a thing as you make it.

>>50439834
FATE is probably my least favorite system on the market, and that fact that big chunks of it has been carved of and shoved into StoryPath has completely turned me off Scion 2E and the Aeon/Trinity relaunch.
See how fucking useless adding your personal opinion on a non-related system is to the discussion at hand 'jakki?

>>50442741
>You can talk to them honestly, though. Ghoul them. Blood bond them. Just pay them lots of money or even genuinely befriend them

Thats isnt an honest talk isnt it. Talking to the addict whose subtenance depends on your mood isnt gonna give you a genuine interaction isnt it?

Is not really that different from playing a dating sim or just huging a body pillow.

>>50442741
>Now, older Vampires eventually becoming bored and suicidal, and so causing trouble or dealing with other Vampires, sure, that's believable. But a society wouldn't spawn from that.

Why wouldnt it? In your scenario elders would eventually reach critical population>>50442765
mass, nothing but direct conflict is gonna kill them.

>>50442971
Oh. Well, that stuff makes sense, too. Tribal conflict is one of the most sensible things in the world.

>>50442972
There aren't enough Vampires to compete for food or influence or make social networks out of each other. Especially when Vampires are your only real threats. I'm not saying they wouldn't have beliefs and ideas, but those things wouldn't be Vampire-driven; they'd just adopt whatever their human beliefs were.

>>50443004
Dating sims aren't self-aware and you can't touch them. That a vampire can influence people doesn't mean they're not real people with all the benefits that offers.

>Why wouldnt it? In your scenario elders would eventually reach critical population

In my scenario, there's not nearly enough vampires period to have any sort of "critical population", and a bored elder would kill himself before he created a stable, lasting society. Vampires don't mix well.

>>50442989

Fate is just half assed system that triumphs because people mistake their own effort to actual effort from the developers.

Is like selling you a tools when you ask me to build you a cabinet and then bragging how good of a carpenter i am because you somehow manage to build the cabinet you wanted with the tools.

>>50443055
>There aren't enough Vampires to compete for food or influence or make social networks out of each other
That's according to what your GM feels is the right number
>Vampires are your only real threats
Lul No
>they'd just adopt whatever their human beliefs were
This one is the most correct. but you have to understand. A vamp looks at himself, and asks "what am I? why am I here?" Even in RL people struggle with this

>>50443176
>That's according to what your GM feels is the right number
Eh.. obviously, a GM can alter it, but the books have never presented Vampires as especially prolific relative the human populations.

>Lul No

There's the Strix, but they're supposed to be so uncommon vampires aren't even convinced they exist. They're a non-issue.

>>50443055

Are we discussing your shitty homebrew setting or the setting as presented? because in the setting as presented there is enough vamp population to poblate the covenants

>>50443220
World hates vamps Anon. The Sun hates vamps. Humans hate vamps. Anything the ST can bring in Hates vamp. Vamps hate vamps. If you can't find something that hates vamps, your ST is not doing a good job. And guess what. Vamps are immobile, deaf blind and dumb for half of their existences. And already now you're forming a rebuttal about this and such and such rule or setting.

Besides Anon why would you even play in a game without conflict? Oh right this is just a convoluted workaround to say vamp isn't a real game.

>>50443317
>Are we discussing your shitty homebrew setting or the setting as presented?
The setting as presented. Vampire populations are low.

>>50443356
World has no feelings about vamps. The sun is a non-issue if you take even slight precautions. Other vampires, yes. And sure, if you do crossover bullshit there's other things, but then you're an awful person.

Other vampires are the only real threats in a vampire's life.

And who said the game has no conflict? Have you been paying any attention at all?

All vampires are predators.
All other vampires are rivals.
All other living vampires will one day become your enemy.
Destroy them before they destroy you.

You know what. I'll fucking build up a vampire cult dedicated to this idea.

>>50441985
People constantly say this, but you know what? I have literally never felt more immersed in a system that only uses mechanics to handle the real physical stuff and leave "what you feel" up to the player. It may not devolve into vampions, but games without some kind of morality trait often end up with players either shrugging off things that would reasonably be serious and consequential things with "eh, it didn't bother me", or they end up overblowing it and treating everything melodramatically.

Pretending is hard. Props help. And the mechanical systems are ultimately just props.

The game isn't even giving you rules for how your character feels, it's giving rules to what happens to the character. You decide what those events mean, but "Suffering a Breaking Point" is more of a prop than deciding whether or not your character is hurt. It's essentially the emotional equivalent of saying "nuh uh, I have a forcefield". Not every game needs to have that kind of thing, but WHEN THE GAME IS ABOUT THAT it helps to codify it with mechanics, just like in games where combat is important and meaningful and meant to be a focus of the game, combat has rules.

>>50442460
How is there no resource scarcity? You realize vampires can't just abduct people off the streets, right? You realize that once you blood bond a useful mortal, someone else is going to want that useful mortal, right? You have a thing they want. Jealous and greed are the things that motivate *real life people* already. Vampires still have all of those things. There's an entire chapter of the corebook devoted to this.

The Covenants are also there to give your unlife meaning, and to keep you from fucking it up for everyone else.

>>50442615
>>50442680
Again, there is an entire chapter dedicated to why vampires don't strive to avoid each other. Your argument seems to boil down to "I don't see why all vampires don't just sit at home with their small group of blood dolls and just watch Netflix all night"

>>50443775
Eh... I can see the argument, but I personally (not the person you're replying to) think that it's too restrictive and, while it might not be intended to be a punishment for a player who may well have never done anything wrong, will still feel like one because you lose stuff. At the very least, I believe the Path of Enlightenment system from Masquerade is important, and that Requiem Kindred should be able to alter their breaking points in a similar manner. If the point is to stave off the Beast, there's more than one way to do it.

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>>50443845
I think Paths of Enlightenment are too Path Of Whatever I Was Going To Do Anyway. That said, I do think that Requiem could use something similar, albeit one made more like the 2e Humanity chart, where it's working towards a certain thing.
Also, the Beast is staved off by being more human. And something a lot of people forget is that Vampires are able to take three Banes, which give -1 to future Breaking Points, but also mean that one particular Breaking Point is no longer a Breaking Point.

Ultimately, Requiem is more focused on theme than Masquerade, especially in 2e.

>>50443921
>being more human
There's the problem: the system declares that there's only one way to be "human," and that "human" inherently clashes with "vampire." I very firmly disagree: it's "Man" clashing with "Beast." The vampire is the synthesis of those two elements, as is all of vampiric society; doing things related to that is relating oneself to the synthesis, not the Beast alone. I believe that breaking points should always tie directly to the Beast in some way.

>>50443775
>How is there no resource scarcity? You realize vampires can't just abduct people off the streets, right? You realize that once you blood bond a useful mortal, someone else is going to want that useful mortal, right? You have a thing they want. Jealous and greed are the things that motivate *real life people* already. Vampires still have all of those things. There's an entire chapter of the corebook devoted to this.
There are sufficient mortals for every Vampire to have a bunch and never bump into another. It's rank foolishness to risk the destruction of your eternal life over a fungible and renewable resource like humanity.

>Again, there is an entire chapter dedicated to why vampires don't strive to avoid each other. Your argument seems to boil down to "I don't see why all vampires don't just sit at home with their small group of blood dolls and just watch Netflix all night"

The motivations at play in these chapters don't work. I'm not championing inactive Vampires, I'm saying the setting as it presents Vampires doesn't work.

>>50443570
Ah Right let me just high five my vamp buddy who lives in my closet. He told me he needed about two pints of my blood before he left for the night. but you know it's cool. dying slowly. He also said he wanted to take my paycheck for a night on the town. I really should be saving it for my family, but no matters. I mean it's not like he's a parasitical monster who contributes nothing to society while robbing people of their free will. Nope nothing to hate there at all.

Stop pretending the Van Helsing effect isn't a legitimate thing

>>50444039
The general vampire to human ratio is well over 1:10 in any given location with the numbers given. Why would you ever nightly drain a human that much? The optimal feeding strategy is to take a little from many, not a lot from few. It causes zero harm and renews itself exceptionally fast.

Seriously, the only possible way you could have trouble doing this as a vampire is if you're aggressively stupid.

>>50444103
Wow you must live in America with that kind of HealthCare. Zero harm after being beaten. Everywhere else in the world blood letting causes serious health risks. I bet you also think Humans can't figure shit out.

>>50444210

An overabundance of blood letting can cause health risks. Inflicting 1L on a person now and then, fortunately, is harmless.

So I poked around the Mega and it is a real possibility I am blind here, but is there no mage 20th anniversary edition in there?

>>50444347
There is one, the MEGA doesn't have it.

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>>50444267
>1L Harmless
Ah I guess you wouldn't mind 1L seven more times then? I mean it's just 1L. I mean come on just let a stranger Domestically Abuse you, for his own benefit

>>50444529

Except that each degree of harm is non-linear.

Unless you think being shot by a literal tank cannon (10L) is equivalent to ten cuts from a knife.

>>50435110
Old World holds down New World and pisses in it's mouth, no contest.

>>50444529
What >>50444538 says. There's a reason healing times vary based on wound severity. A peaceful 1L drink is, indeed, very little harm.

>>50444547
Yeah! This is the kind of mindset that makes people prefer CofD over WoD

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>>50444538
>>50444554
>1L everyday
It's also the equivalent of Punching your wife in the mouth every day you come home after work. Amazing how that works out

>>50444627
Punching is bashing.
It's more like cutting her up 1/7th of the way to needing critical medical attention even after you've bandaged her up.

>>50444430
Oh mind pointing me in the right direction?

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>>50444649
CAUSE THAT MAKES SO MUCH BETTER

It's not Domestic Abuse if I CUT HER

>>50444627
Sure, if "punching" caused no pain or mental trauma and was, instead, an immensely enjoyable experience.

>>50444649

Isn't punching Lethal as of 2e, or is that specifically melee weaponry?

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>>50444697
>It not rape if they Enjoy it

>>50444736
>Something you don't remember, and in the moment, enjoy
>Meaningful at all
Jesus anon you really suck at ethics

>>50444736
>>50444825
It's also not rape because it isn't sex. That's a pretty important part of rape.

Would Time patterning or Time unmaking be appropriate for a spell that turns instant actions for the duration?

>>50444715
Melee weaponry.

>>50444662
I will upload my personnel collection this weekend.

>>50444991

>>50444842
>Rape is about sex and not power

>>50444825
>roofies are not rape

>>50444886
If you mean turning Extended Actions into Instant Actions, then that's Time 5, "Blink of an Eye".

>>50445056
Legal definition sure, but the ethics of roofies are far more different than simply forceful rape.

Also, "Rape is about power" meme is 0/10. Get your internet psychology degree out of here, you tosser.

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>>50445077
>ethics of roofies

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o10gJMmWLcU

>>50445215
>Implying consent has anything to do with it
You're not good at this anon

>>50445383
>rape is not about consent
Anon it's talk like this is why you don't have a girl friend. You just creep them out, and they don't trust you when you say "I've got to go score some more roofies" or "Yeah my old man beat the shit out of my mom, dumb bitch shouldn't speak up"

>>50445492
>He doesn't understand any form of ethics aside from whatever form of egoism society has told him to follow

>>50443775
>People constantly say this, but you know what? I have literally never felt more immersed in a system that only uses mechanics to handle the real physical stuff and leave "what you feel" up to the player.

And by the same token the best games i ever play in the 3 main lines where the ones in which there wasnt any behavior scale or in the case of masquerade we discard the humanity system and just eyeball it to the situation.

>>50443985
This is ultimately "I disagree with the way that it was done", but that's not the story they want to tell. What's "human" is what a normal human being would do. What's not human is acting like a monster or indulging in the vampire world, because vampires are fundamentally *not* human.

>>50444015
The motivations work perfectly, considering most people don't have the problems you do.

>>50444039
>Stop pretending the Van Helsing effect isn't a legitimate thing
Is that you sarcastically mocking that poster, or what? Also, are you making a reference to the Kitty Genovese effect?

>>50444103
>>50444554
>>50444538
>>50444649
>>50444697
People who argue that draining vitae causes "zero harm" are sort of missing the point that it literally takes health levels. At best you are cutting someone for 1L every two nights. While there are no systems for that, it's not unreasonable for the ST to rule that doing so is harmful in a long term way.

Nevermind that no matter how you sell it you are causing someone physical harm to continue your own existence. It's abuse.

>>50444842
>>50445077
>>50445383
You're right. It's not rape. It's A FUCKING METAPHOR. One that you fail to grasp. You are subverting another creature's will. You are mentally coercing them. Even if they accept the Kiss, the moment you give it, they no longer have a choice in the matter and asking permission was simply a formality. This is the nature of vampirism. This is the curse.
You have to abuse people for your own existence to continue.

Also, rape is 100% about consent, what the fuck are you going on about? Consent is the difference between MMA and assault, it's the difference between kinky sex and rape.

>>50445910
Sounds like you don't actually care about humanity or using those systems or playing to theme. I also fail to see how the Morality systems would hold you back SO MUCH that all that's necessary for you to love the game is to ditch them.

>>50445065
Sorry I meant Instant actions into reflexive actions