Pathfinder sure is bad.

>>50371785
It's bad because it's 3.5 with a new painjo--- wait... i think i've been here before... i think we've had this conversation before.... i am getting total dejavu from this thread...

Maybe because OP is a faggot and keeps reposting the same image as though it's new content?

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I used to love Pathfinder and everything about it until I realized how garbage it is compared to other systems. It's better than Fourth or Fifth Ed. but that isn't saying much.

>the shit I took today was better than the shit I took last night!

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>>50372140
>better than 5th ed
>better than anything
Pathfinder is an aberration of tabletop gaming. At least 5th ed has some sense of self-awareness.

Good fucking god, who gives a shit?

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>>50372095

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>>50372140
>He's never had a fantastic dump
I feel bad for you famalam.

>>50372140
>>pathfinder
>>better than 5th ed

Nope

>>50372427
There's a group of super autistic trolls who won't stop until they feel that they've somehow made the edition they hate less popular.

Considering it's been 16 years and it's still at #2, you can expect another decade of this.

>>50372095
Eh, it's probably just your imagination.

Good fucking god, who gives a shit?

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>>50374967
This.

>>50374942
it goes
3e>2e>1e>basic>>>>>>>>>>>5e
4e can not really be compared on the same scale as it is not really d&d but it is at least miles better then 5e

>>50375813
oh and pathfinder is about 1/4 between basic and 5e still shit but not as much of a crime against tabbletop as 5e is

>>50371785
Yep, Shitseeker sucks

Paizo knows it too, that's why they are cutting support for Shitseeker in 2017. They are literally taking the money and running.

>>50375825

How is it a crime against tabletop gaming?

>>50376046
>advantage
>bonds and there associated features
>advantage
>restricts magic items not because the designers think thats a good idea but to appease anti magic item faggots
>advantage

>>50374967
>#2

HAHAHAHA. No son. No it is not. Not at least on any list that matters. Last time I checked RPG Geek it was at 33-32.

It's pretty mediocre but what can you do? There're more fish in the water so if you don't like it do like everyone else and play other games.

>>50376065
>I hate it when mechanics work correctly I prefer when the only thing that matters is muh optimized build
t. shitseeker

>>50376065
What's wrong with advantage?

>>50376065
My problem is not advantage (just bonuses with another name and less stacking) my problem is there's little to no synergy in the game, is too fucking simple.

I'll stay with FC and Anima thank you.

>>50376086
pathfinder is not much better
>lets take 3e and instead of fixing the real problem of the skill system make it even worse by changing the class skill system that was the only thing keeping it remotely balanced and then proceded to fuck a bunch of other shit up and create the caster superiority that people pretend 3e has.

>>50376076
What arbitrary lists matter more than sales numbers?

http://icv2.com/articles/markets/view/35144/top-5-rpgs-spring-2016

Huh I was right, this is our designated shitposter for the month

>>50376109
it does not stack
you get the same bonus for a mild distraction as you do for weeks of painstaking preparation for an assaination

its also to major a bonus its just to good for minor stuff

>>50371785
Quit posting this, you faggots.
I think PF is the worst version of D&D, but I'd run a whole campaign of the shit if it meant I wouldn't have to listen to you spergs.

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>>50376141
Technically, since advantage is just a roll both and take higher rather than a static bonus you are correct. It doesn't stack. It instead improves as your character improves just like any bonus that does stack

BTFO

>>50376259
anon's point isn't about it not improving with your character, it's that there no room for variation with circumstance bonuses. You either have advantage or you don't.

>>50376141
Yeah, a mosquito bite is as much of a disadvantage as being blind.

>>50376122

There are tons of RPGs being played that aren't even being sold at all more, including the older editions of D&D.

Sales numbers obviously can't indicate what is and isn't being played and to what extent.

>>50376294
Which is exactly like a stacking bonus. You either have it or your don't.

>>50376333
True, but it's something to compare to the more recent editions.

>>50376333
how would you actually go about measuring what's being played in someone's basement? any metric you come up with is going to be under some kind of bias


besides, from a business perspective sales are all that matters

>>50376363
a circumstance bonus can be anything like a +2 or a +10, depending on the /circumstances/

advantage is just a reroll, with no room to distinguish between having a lucky rock or having a painstakingly crafted plan

>>50376383
>with no room to distinguish
Besides the relative strength of your character. An advantage gained by a stronger character is a stronger advantage.

>>50372237
It's not even better then 3.5, whose mistakes can be excused by the fact that it was trying new stuff.

Pathfinder was built to be bad.

>>50376005
There's no way this is true. They have so many fucking products and are still one of the top selling games. Why would they stop the gravy train?

>>50376417
>still one of the top selling games
Why do you keep repeating this obvious falsehood?

>>50376395
but you can't distinguish between two equally strong characters in unequal circumstances"

>>50376425
>obvious falsehood
>>50376122
please post your own sales numbers or refrain from shitposting

>>50376428
Circumstance bonuses are just a way for rule lawyers to manipulate inexperienced GMs into giving them a far higher bonus than is actually warranted. Stop throwing a fit just because your favorite little cheat got taken away.

>>50376320
See >>50376395

>>50376440
??

so if you GM you give the guy that once read a book about goblins the same circumstance bonus as a guy that lived with them for years

seems like lazy GMing to me

>>50376440
And so the strawmaning begins

I can also say disadvantage is a way of cunt GMs to negate Advantage from features (see reckless attack) with stuff like "nah, you get distracted by a fly, disavantage cancels your reckless attack bonus". This is the same level of unrelated retard argument you're pushing right now, so stop strawmaning and moving the goalpost.

>>50376449
How is that an answer to that?

>>50376439
Paizo is lying about their sales figures to trick people into still buying Pathfinder shit through the holidays. They are dropping the announcement in first quarter 2017.

>>50376472
>citation needed
as i said, sources or please stop shitposting

>>50376425
Link from >>50376122 shows they're still high up there.

Or just walk into literally any nerd store out there and take a look. You'll find PF books and 5e books and that'll be fucking it. They can't be doing poorly if they're able to stock shelves. If they were struggling they would A) not have dozens of tie in products on store shelves or B) scale things back or go full PDF like GURPS did.

>>50376505
>They can't be doing poorly if they're able to stock shelves.

They absolutely can; being on shelves can mean that the product is not moving.

See: SFV.

Not saying it's the case with PF though.

>>50376493
>>50376505
Can't wait until all your parents money turns out to be wasted when your books become completely worthless in February.

Screenshot this

>>50376516
The fuck does that ev-oh so your just some bitter euro, suddenly the amount of ass hurt makes so much sense.

>>50376471
It's, you're too dumb to figure it.

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>>50376569
>I was actually right
Oh shit, it's a Thanksgiving day miracle.

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>>50376516
>implying I own shitsearcher books
I'm mad BECAUSE they are popular dumbass. Did you completely miss the negative tone? Also, without the company supplying books second-hand market would become worth more, that's how economics works when you cut supply and have equal demand.

And where is this "dead in February" thing coming from? I'd be real happy if they did, but I won't believe it without a source.

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OH BOY IS IT THIS TIME AGAIN!?

>>50376593
He's talking about how trumps going to ruin our economy or something, hence my erotrash comment above.

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>>50376614

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>>50376626

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>>50376640

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>>50376655

>>50376320
Blind is an actual condition in the book, dumbass.

>>50376685
Which gives you disadvantage the same thing a mosquito bite gives you, are you in the argument anon? you seem absent

>>50376715
It gives disad PLUS a load of other shit. Holy fuck are you dumb.

>>50376715
Mosquito bite doesn't give disadvantage. If you're going to argue, there is a dozen things you could use as an example that actually happen in the game instead of strawmanning. A mosquito bite doesn't even impart a -1 in 3e. The fuck kind or example is that?

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>>50376666
>tfw these are getting regularly reposted after I dredged them up a few days ago
Feels good to shit on 3.PFaggots

>>50376779
I have to thank you for not using that retarded faggot's 'shitseeker'.

I'm like 90% sure its just Richard Petty trying to falseflag, it fits his style of fixating on a single word and spamming it like mad.

>>50376845
Nigga I just posted 5 examples of why Pathfinder is utter garbage.

You are just going full retard.

>>50376899
Jeeze man I was just trying it out.

Seems like it worked pretty good even if I can't tell who's samefagging who in this thread :^)

>>50376666
>>50376655
>>50376640
>>50376626

That's an impressive set of quadsand dubs

More importantly: holy shit, why are Paizo staff such asshole faggots?

>Hey your system is broken, what was the thought process? Can you please fix it?
>FUCK YOU RETARD RAW IS INFALLIBLY AWESOME

>>50371785
yup

it's actually worse than 3.5

>>50376963
>Seems like it worked pretty good even if I can't tell who's samefagging who in this thread
It's not him getting mad over the word, it's him getting mad over your apparent idiocy of attempting to buttblast someone who's supporting your argument.

The phrase "you were only pretending to be retarded" fits here. What are you trying to accomplish, except make yourself look like a fool?

>>50375813
Are you from Bizarro world?


The real ranking is...

God Tier
B/X
BECMI/Rule Cyclopedia

Great Tier
2e
4e

Good Tier
1e

Meh Tier
5e

Lower than Whaleshit Tier
3.x

Shit Singularity Tier
Pathfinder

>>50376516
>spendinbg money on PF
>ever
>when literally all the rules can be found online for free
You're a special kind of retard, aren't you

So can someone explain to me what is stopping someone from just homeruling all the bullshit away? I mean, is that not the point? To find a system that works good enough for what you're doing then have the GM just homerule all the imbalanced stuff? I can understand that Paizo is full of shitters as well as having a bunch of cocksmokers at the ready but why should this stop me from using the setting/system? Is it so broken that I should just go find 3.5 resources instead?

>>50377041
i will agree with you on pathfinders tier but its still better then 5e

>>50376666
Saiyan Satan do you have the screencap where the guy proves that a Water Balloon based fighter is better than a Crossbow fighter if he adds Opium to the balloons?

>>50377064
>I can understand that Paizo is full of shitters as well as having a bunch of cocksmokers at the ready but why should this stop me from using the setting/system?
The setting is kinda trash imo.
And yeah, that's what most sane pf players do, we add a whole bunch of 3pp and homerules until we get it to a point we can stand. Hell, /pfg/ gets regularly asked by both homebrewers and 3pp devs to review and playtest theuir materials.
But eventually when you do all that stuff, which you have to do a lot of considering most of the core mechanics suck, you can't help but ask "Is this worth it, or should I just look for a new/better system entirely?"

>>50377073
5e aggressively tries to be as non-offensive as possible. I'd rather play it any day of the week over anything based 3.x. It is the compromise solution that makes no one happy, but conversely makes no one mad.

>>50376963
Shove your head up your ass a bit more, I think you might be able to find daylight.

>>50376980
Man, I got no fucking clue. The stupidest part is like a week after SKR went on that tear, they erreted the fucking hex anyway.

>>50377132
Other then a few retards as proven in this thread who swear its a sin against gaming, because they seem to be unable to understand it.

>>50377064
If I'm going to have to houserule so many fucking things to get a game that halfway doesn't suck, I might as well just make my own at that point.

I'm not giving fuckers money, and then doing their goddamn job for them.

Play something that isn't 3/PF based.

>>50376666
Do you have any examples of Non Sean K Reynolds paizo employees being dickish?

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>>50377064
>So can someone explain to me what is stopping someone from just homeruling all the bullshit away?

>what's wrong with a Ford Pinto man? Sure it's slow, dangerous, and cramped, but you can just MODIFY it to be good!

>>50376980
Why i play 4e/5e.

>>50377113
Sadly no, but I do have this.

>>30846176 (OP)
>https://archive.foolz.us/tg/thread/29538483/#29552412

Rockzo, the Rock 'N Roll Clown
Male Orc Barbarian 20, Hurler Archetype
Traits: Surprise Weapon (UCa 54), (____)
Feats:
1 - Throw Anything
3 - Quick Draw
5 - Deadly Aim
7 - Two-Weapon Fighting
9 - Rapid Shot
11 - Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
13 - Point Blank Shot
15 - Precise Shot
17 - Clustered Shots
19 - Greater Two-Weapon Fighting

Point Buy 25p: 17/15/14/10/10/10
Post-Racial: 21/15/14/8/8/8
Post-Character Level Bonuses: 26/15/14/8/8/8
Post-Items: 37/19/14/8/8/8
Post-Rage: 45/19/14/8/8/8

Items Purchased: Greater Belt of Hurling and Strength +6 (Can someone price this?)
Gloves of Dexterity +4
Strength Tome +5
Handy Haversack
Lots and lots of balloons full of opium (I'll see how much fits in the sack later).

Attack Routine (While raging):
+31/+31/+31/+26/+26/+21/+21/+16
Damage:
1d2+29 HP, 8d4 Strength, 8d4 Constitution per round (244 HP, 20 STR, 20 CON avg.) [252 HP, 32 STR, 32 CON avg.]
Cost per Round: 25*8=200gp
Range Increment: 30'

>>50377182
So, falseflagging it is. Thanks for proving that.

>>50377132
it makes plenty of people mad with advantage

>>50376120
>slowly moves from original to improved classes splat by splat
>actually has a tier 3 balace going on with enough classes and types of classes that you don't need the broken ass core shit anymore
This is what WotC should have done. PF just did it slowly.

>>50377235
I wouldn't call them "people"

>>50377204
Modifying a game does not require money, only time. I could also spend this time trying to find and learn another system but that is a cost that has to be determined at the time of the action. And since i'm running into this very problem with 5e my current mood is to just modify and homebrew the shit into something better since I already know how it works and the players already know how it works.
>>50377190
>I'm not giving fuckers money, and then doing their goddamn job for them.
As somebody else said, everything is already out there free to use and piracy or not, I try before I buy.

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>>50377252
Why the flying fuck would I waste my time on that pile of shit to beat it into something half useable, when I could just use a game that's not a broken pile of shit? Fuck off.

>>50377200
Gotcha senpai.

>>50377306
How about you suggest a fucking alternative then you cockgobbling shitmonger. Instead of screaming like a fucking baby
>DON'T PLAY THIS
tell me what I should play in fucking place of it that fulfills the same role as it does. If that system is actually better or more workable then I won't even look at PF without the need to give a shit about their crap dev team.

>>50377333
Damn this Shitseeker devotee is losing his damn mind

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What is even more amazing to me, and really it tells you somethign about the people in this thread..........

They hate PF SO MUCH they can't move on with their lives. They literally cannot stop eating shit they hate. They do it on purpose! They deliberately seek out steaming piles of shit, and shove their faces into it! They can't help it! And they think it makes people who play a game they like MAD AS HELL! they're so obsessed with hating this game they literally cannot shut up about it

It's hilarious to watch you incredibly retarded, brain damaged idiots do this day after day after day! And the funniest part is...you're just talking in an echochamber! Not one person is going to be swayed by your sad little obsession.

>>50377041
Wrong rankings:

> Ascended Tier: Lamentations of the Flame Princess
> God Tier: D&D 3.5
> Good Tier: D&D 5e
> Okay Tier: D&D 4e
> Bad Tier: AD&D 2e
> Shit Tier: AD&D 1e
> Nigger tier: B/X, holmes, moldvay, anything

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>>50377333
>>50377306
He can't. He doesn't have an answer, only something he doesn't want you to play.

>>50377345
You've yet to suggest a goddamned alternative to PF that is objectively better than it. You've yet to give reasons outside of the dev team to not play it. You are doing nothing to get me to not play it as what you are showing me are what appear to be small specks. Unless you can show me both that the very core of the game is flawed and suggest something else that fulfills the same role you are just shitposting.
A goddamn venn diagram would work fine comparing it to, say, 5e or 3.5.

>>50377373
>shitseeker cultist starts screaming in pain as his god is questioned

>>50377395
I can certainly understand why you think hysterical laughter is screaming.

In the mean time, I'm getting my shit published and you're still here screaming about a game you don't even play.

did we get invaded by /v/ or something? dear god this thread is awful

>>50377237
outside the skill system 3e was never that unbalanced to begin with if you dmed the way intended

>>50377390
While Duck in the Circle removes the issue that class based systems have it introduces its own problems regarding the limited swimmer point picks and the imbalance of Aga to Thi stats that hasn't been fixed even in 2nd Ed.

>>50377132
>5e aggressively tries to be as non-offensive as possible.
This has got to be the new "Tabletop WoW".

>>50377394
Oh, it's got some pretty glaring flaws, to be honest, but with the advent of the fourth iteration of character classes, those problems are pretty much moot now. You'd be pretty hard pressed to find issues with unchained monks and rogues, vigilanties, most of they hybricd classes, and a lot of the 3/4 BAB classes, honestly.

>>50377416
It's thanksgiving here in the USA, so all the retards have a day off to shitpost as hard as humanly possible.

>>50377410
>screeching continues

>>50377427
Hey now, don't be dissing the replication system fixes and the Div stat adjustments.

>>50377041
Swap the contents of god tier and great tier and you would be right.

>>50377416
I'm a /v/ normal but I usually come to /tg/ to avoid shitposting of the annoying variety. At least "excuse me sir" is moderately entertaining. This is just one autist trying to warn people not to waste their time with something while not actually arguing it. So yeah, this appears more like a daytime /v/ thread than a regular /tg/ thread.
>>50377434
So core is imbalanced but later releases are? Would core being imbalanced affect those later releases significantly if so?

>>50377439
>can't type in a civil fashion
>makes a screaming thread
>accuses others of screaming
Uh huh. Show me more of your enlightened nature.

>>50377467
>Shitseeker guy is just plain mad

Not surprising to be honest

>>50377446
Don't give me that. I'm calling it as I see it, and of the three DitC games I've had, Launchies have always pulled ahead of the other archetypes. It doesn't matter if they can't jazz as well as the others when they're just swimming roughshod all over the enemy.

>>50377242
i agree they are elevated above the advantage supporting rable

>>50377479
Wow it really is like I'm on /v/ today, you've got this do pat man.

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>>50377390
>Does D&D have flaws? Certainly, but most of these are remedied in far less time than it takes to learn a new system

>>50377333
3e is a viable alternative to pathfinder

its the same game but better in every none capstone ability related way

>>50377462
To an extent yes. Most of the imblance is caster vs martial, but after Ultimate magic intriduced the magus, and then Advanced Calss Guide, Unchained, and finally Ultimate Intrigue, most of the later martials and 3/4 BAB covber everythign someone wants to play and can do it as martial with social skills or more tactics than "I hit it", (slayers, unchained rogues, unchained monks, avenger vigilante) and the full spell casters aren't significantly better than core. You can drop 90% of core and 60% of Advanced Player's Guide and do fine.

>>50377503
>so mad you can't even type

>>50377512
Unless you play anything resembling a martial without 30 splatbooks.

>>50377512
What are the flaws of it?
>>50377527
So what out of core should be dropped specifically? Thank you by the way for providing actual meaningful discussion as opposed to this >>50377534 asshole.

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I don't like PF, but don't you think enough is enough?

>>50377537
>Is retarded
>Proves it by using the term "Martial"

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Just so you know, nobody who likes PF comes to these threads. You're broadening nobody's horizons. It's just an autistic circle-jerk.

>>50377549
>What are the flaws of it?
mostly the skill system which is still better then pathfinders

well the skill system is fine its the way skill points are earnt that is broken

>>50377394
>Unless you can show me both that the very core of the game is flawed
You've apparently never asked /pfg/, because not even those guys will defend the system at all.

As for better systems, I suggest Ironclaw, Defurred preferably

>>50377612
But you're here, faggot.

>>50377635
I never said I like Pathfinder. I'm just sick of people like you coming here day in and day out just to jack off to how much you hate a specific RPG.

Bumping so hopefully more people like you see my previous post.

>>50377612
>implying that the majority of posts in this thread aren't by assblasted Shitseeker fans

>>50377659
And you legitimately believe you're convincing anyone they're having the wrong kind of fun? Also you post like someone fresh from /v/ or /b/. Was there some sort of raid recently?

>>50377659
is this a falseflag or is anon just really stuck on his stupid new word

>>50377677
Sssssshhhhh

It's okay little maddie. You can still play Shitseeker all alone like usual. Nobody is stopping you.

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>>50377708
I rest my case.

>>50372095
DEJAVU!
I've have been on this thread before
Higher on the bait!
And I know its my time to shitpost!

>>50377549
It's less 'dropped out of core' than 'be aware of this disparity'. Wizards and sorcerers are gamechangers. Clerics come in a close second, with druids having to specialize decidedly or they gimp themselves. Rogues and Monks are worse than useless - they are prohibitavely bad (the Unchained rogue and Unchained Monk are quite a bit more useful and much more gameworthy). Fighters and rangers have to be heavuilt archetyped or they don't stand long outside of inflicting pure damage; Paladins are the only decent martials in core, barbarians coming in close second - but both severely limited to hurting the enemy 905 of the time.

This chances little with Advanced Player's Guide" witches are very strong, capable of almost anything (there are even effective martial witch builds), while the Oracle is an amazing toolkit of magic and abilities. Summoner only looks broken with you don't actually do the math. Once again, martials - Cavalier, specifically) is toast, only slightly made better by damage capacity.

However, now you have more 3/4 bab classes - which I avoided in core. 3/4 bab classes such as the bard, inquisitor, and alchemist are effective at so many different situations and things, you have to work hard to gimp them. The introduction of the ninja assisted them, and Samurai gave us a fighter who could actually function agaisnt mind controlling brain-rape monsters, unlike other melee classes outside barbarian and paladin. Gunslingers were too niche, sadly.

Advanced Class guide did okay - Slayer, a functional martial with potential social skills and tricks. The Brawler ~almost ~ worked. Even more 3/4 bab classes that work well. Warpriest and hunter, more 3/4 bab usefulness. But we also got the severely broken arcanist, the useless sswashbuckler, and the less than steller rage classes, bloodrager and skald. But the magus and vigilante were near perfect. The unchained monk and unchained rogue were excellent.

>>50377775
>Kid who doesn't know the rules very well sperging out about casters again
Learn the rules before you post your shitty opinion dumbass

>>50377708
You sure aren't. all you're doing is makign sure people try it to find out what could possibly drive someone insane enough to scream and piss his pants about such a bad game...and then we have more players.

>>50377800
The only thing he said that was wrong is that Summoner isn't broken.

>>50376640

>"I assert that at no level are you to be considered a superhuman that can do things people in the real world can't do!"
>Says the developer in a game where a 9th-level character can withstand being bitten and then swallowed whole by a T-Rex and then hack their way out from inside its gullet and a 20th-level character can swan dive from orbit into lava and have enough HP to swim to land

>>50377800
Hey, prove it or shut up.

>>50377816
You're right, but not about playing Shitseeker. You're dead on about using the hilarious new term Shitseeker though.

>>50377827
I specified that summoner isn't broken when you do the math properly. 90% of the 'broken shit' about summoners is people talking out of their asses.

>>50377857
I don't think you've done the math properly. Either way, between 6th level casting that's functionally 9th level casting, Summoners pretty clearly outdo every martial in the game hands down, even with an archetype that outright gimps them by killing their action economy advantage.

>>50377857
>You now realize that the exact same thing is responsible for every claim of casters being overpowered

>>50372140
>It's better than Fourth or Fifth Ed.
>(You)

>>50377886
See, this is what i'm talkign about.

An Eidolon is a 3/4 bab monster that LOOKS like a full BAB monster (check the BAB chart carefully), can only be buffed by it's summoner, and can't get anythign that really makes ammess out of the enemy util the summoner reaches 11th + levels. The master summoner breaks actioon economy by summining up tones of piddly shit that can be counters by 1st level spells and can be killed by anything of a CR only slightly higher than the Summoner's level in a couple of hits at best, and can't harm half of the monsters they'd be up agaisnt. unless you use 3rd party stuff or you ignore rules you really can't break the actual game with a summoner.

>>50377892
Not really, it's pretty easy to Sacred Geometry your way to being broken. Enemy reflex saves scale like shit and being able to attach a save or lose to them for free is ridiculous.

>>50377958
>I still don't know the rules

>>50377970
That might be important if it were true. Read the books dumbass. Not everything you read online is true.

>>50377972
>I dun unnerstan

>>50377979
Dazing fireball is true. 12 handed huge eidolon at 8th level is not. Master summoner ruining games is only true if the GM is an idiot. Sleep spell and color spray being ultimate game destroying spells is not.

>>50377377
LotFP is B/X you retard.

>>50378015
>I'm still wrong but I'll go ahead and say that it's true
Read.
The.
Book.
Retard.

>>50377958
Yeah you definitely don't know what you're talking about. Summoners dominated the DPR olympics pretty hard, and that's just damage.

>>50377979
It is true. Dazing = damaging spells daze enemies equal to spell level if they fail a spell check. Sacred Geometry = free metamagic because of how incredibly fucking stupid the rules for it are. Monster reflex saves factually scale slower than other types of saves because monster size goes up on average as CR increases and correspondingly tanks monster Dexterity.

>>50377775
Summoners are balanced "enough" if they play the Synthesist archetype. At least that way they have to choose between either punching an enemy to death or casting magic instead of doing both at the same time.

>>50378057
>Still insisting that retarded internet builds that don't actually work in the actual rules are a thing
I don't care what your friends online claim, read the fucking book or shut the fuck up. Go ahead and prove me wrong. Then when you get to the section and try to screenshot it and realize you are wrong, apologize.

>>50378031
Tell me where he's wrong, you pointless naysayer.

>>50378032
Ever check the point totals on those eidolons they posted? I did. They did their math wrong. Points out of nowhere.

>>50378127
see
>>50378102

>>50372140
>It's better than Fourth or Fifth Ed
It's not even better than 3.5, you dumbfuck.

>>50378102
I did. That's exactly what both of those feats do.

>>50378032
Rerun the DPR Olympics now and they wouldn't. Unchained monks, Vigilantes, and Slayers would quickly take that place.

>>50377333
M&M 3e does it every single possible way better.

Its effect based, so you can build it in any way you want.

>>50377423
Oh, PRAY TELL.

Cleric, Druid, Wizard, monk.

How the flipping fuck do you make the monk worth anything more then the dogshit on my shoe?

>>50377684
I'm like 90% sure its false flag, but he really could just be that stupid.

>>50378145
I did read the books and did the math. Not my fault you're an illiterate shitposting moron who can't be bothered to read and do math.

>>50378156
Kek, you're terrified to prove yourself wrong, huh?

Amazing.

>>50378212
You can see for yourself, they're both online for free.
Dazing Spell:
>Benefit: You can modify a spell to daze a creature damaged by the spell. When a creature takes damage from this spell, they become dazed for a number of rounds equal to the original level of the spell. If the spell allows a saving throw, a successful save negates the daze effect. If the spell does not allow a save, the target can make a Will save to negate the daze effect. If the spell effect also causes the creature to become dazed, the duration of this metamagic effect is added to the duration of the spell.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/sacred-geometry

>>50378211
He's the same person that throws a wobbler any time someone mentions the fact that a caster is heads and shoulders above marials. Exact same way, too, screaming about how you just don't understand the rules, but never actually says how.

Just ignore the faggot, he wants attention.

>>50378157
They'd win, just by virtue of having two character's worth of actions. Natural weapon pounce and multiweapon fighting eidolons are both fucking retarded.

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I really dislike Pathfinder, but there's nothing wrong with what he's saying in this screencap.

Playtesting is much more useful than people reading the rules and speculating on problems. The latter is helpful sometimes, and it is possible to find critical failures that way, but all he is doing is encouraging people to actually play the game before giving feedback.


I also agree with his points about balancing and character optimization, but as he also said, that's more of a personal opinion and preference thing.

As soon as another player questions my choices during character creation with the justification of "you could do more damage" or "get better spells" or anything like that, I think it's wrong for them to do so. They're allowed to "build" characters and try for optimization, but it is not the only correct way.

Sub-optimal choices make characters interesting, it makes roleplaying interesting, and is the difference between an RPG and a videogame.

Sometimes people aren't given everything in life, sometimes they don't make all the right choices. This is fun to m personally.

>>50376086
Why do you keep saying shitseeker? Trashfinder is funnier, sounds better, and doesn't make you look like a 12 year old that just finished "hacking" his way through the parental control.

>>50378212
>Dazed
>The creature is unable to act normally. A dazed creature can take no actions, but has no penalty to AC.
>Dazing Spell
>Benefit: You can modify a spell to daze a creature damaged by the spell. When a creature takes damage from this spell, they become dazed for a number of rounds equal to the original level of the spell. If the spell allows a saving throw, a successful save negates the daze effect. If the spell does not allow a save, the target can make a Will save to negate the daze effect. If the spell effect also causes the creature to become dazed, the duration of this metamagic effect is added to the duration of the spell.
>Level Increase: +3 (a dazing spell uses up a spell slot three levels higher than the spell’s actual level.
>Spells that do not inflict damage do not benefit from this feat.
Dazing Fireball, 3 rounds minimum of stand there and die based on reflex save. Works just as they say.

Sacred Geometry is "free metamagic with no level increase if you roll some dice and know how to do math AT ALL". It works pretty much as they say.

You're an idiot.

Shouldn't it be less about the system and more about what you do with it?

>>50378234
Except I did say casters are head and shoulders above martials. Summoners aren't as broken as most people think, because /tg/ cheats on how they build eidolons and use the summons . They aren't unbroken, but they're not god tier like Wizards, Clerics, Arcanists and Oracles are.

>>50378246
An unchained monk can one round a creature with CR+2 higher than it is by itself. That's something a cleric has a hard time with. Summoner+Eidolon can mange the same feat together with luck. That's not an inconsiderable feat for a martial to manage.

>>50378289
I've always been annoyed by the fact that Dazing Spell made Evokers broken by attaching a SoL to their damage and not by buffing their damage.

>>50378340
Shame people are actively proving you wrong here and now about Summoners and all. Way to ignore that.

>>50378368
>not one shred of proof given by either side
You stupid?

>>50378388
You blind?

>>50378340
>Except I did say casters are head and shoulders above martials. Summoners aren't as broken as most people think, because /tg/ cheats on how they build eidolons and use the summons . They aren't unbroken, but they're not god tier like Wizards, Clerics, Arcanists and Oracles are.

They're talking about Richard Petty, not you.

>>50378416
Sure, direct me to the posts where any proof other than hearsay is actually put into them.

I'll wait.

>>50378420
Oh, my bad.

>>50371785
But it's the only game other than Rolemaster where you can play Spelljammers and have it be close to the 2edition game.

And Rolemaster is more fucked up than PF.

>>50378475
>hurp durp, must force my maymay harder

>>50378102
Welp, proved you wrong, do you want to apologize now or later?

>>50378340
>An unchained monk can one round a creature with CR+2 higher than it is by itself.
Unchained monk player here with Dragon ferocity, 20 Str, flying kick and elbow smash. That's a fucking lie.

>>50378647
Also Power attack (but you have to be sure to hit with it, so first Stun then use power attack).

>>50371785
This post is from 8 years ago. Dude, get over it. You were probably like 10 at the time anyway

>>50378647
>>50378662
Level 9 by the way, DPR (spending ki for extra attack) is 35 against AC 25 (average AC of a CR 11 creature), that creature has 145 HPs (average HPs of a CR 11 creature).

35 =/= 145, so no, I can't fucking one round that.

>>50378710
Thank you for the math.

>>50378691
Ignoring all your ad hominem against OP (Also fuck off back to plebbit. Don't you know that if you need to ad hominem OP you just call him a faggot?), has Pathfinder changed significantly in the last 8 years? Because if it hasn't then the evidence towards pathfinder being shit is still completely valid.

>>50378255
I think the most blatantly wrong statement in that quoted post is that they have people on payroll capable of reading the rules and imagining how they'll play out. They clearly don't or can't.

>>50378721
Dunno if serious or sarcasm
My damage is 1d10+5 (str) + 2(Dragon Ferocity) +2 (AoMF+2)
My attacks are +16/+16/+16/+9/+9*
*elbow smash: if you hit with a previously designated strike you make another with a -5 that deals nonlethal damage

>>50378794
I'm 100% serious. Its nice to see someone post math to shut that guy up.

>>50378750
Pathfinder hasn't change and it hasn't gone away and the people playing it are going to keep playing it. What boggles the mind is autists get so upset that people are playing a game. People playing Pathfinder have no effect on your gaming. If you don't like Pathfinder, don't play Pathfinder.

Also sir you seem to be taking post etiquette and form very seriously for a very silly topic. Maybe leddit would make a nice home for you if you are so concerned with proper posting

>>50378865
Fuck off, Richard.

>>50378345
Well yeah, doing damage is a job for martials.

>>50378819
Sorry, it's hard to guess if people are being sarcasting in conversations like this one.

I might add that I can only make that many attacks 9 times a day because I only have 9 ki. Actually less because I cast Barkskin and sometimes even have to spend a ki point to get +4 to dodge.

>>50378924
Yeah, I can understand that.

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>>50378865
>>Pathfinder hasn't change and it hasn't gone away and the people playing it are going to keep playing it. What boggles the mind is autists get so upset that people are playing a game. People playing Pathfinder have no effect on your gaming. If you don't like Pathfinder, don't play Pathfinder.
Obvious strawman. Try harder at least.

>Also sir you seem to be taking post etiquette and form very seriously for a very silly topic. Maybe leddit would make a nice home for you if you are so concerned with proper posting
Calling the OP a faggot is srs bzns.

>>50377390
He's right that all of D&D's flaws are remedied in about the time it takes to learn another system, by learning another system.

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>>50379038
>Being this mad about a post someone made online

>>50376640
This Sean K Reynolds guy is a 10/10 assfaggot.

That being said, the term 'free action' as defined by virtually any and all rule books ever is exact that; a free action. An action that takes no effort, time, or detracts from any other action.

That being said I can reload and fire a hand crossbow twice in real life while talking with relative ease within 6 seconds. 3 times is a stretch as holding more than two small bolts makes it a little difficult.

Modern firearms? Shit man I can blaze through 12-18 rounds in my revolver in under 6 seconds.

>>50379251
And that's you without being a capital H Hero, either. You're just some fucker on 4chan, not Pecos Bill or some shit.

>>50379303
>In order to be a hero you have to be physically different than normal people
Guess you don't celebrate Firefighter's day

>>50376626
Hey, I'm not the kind to aggravate situations, but...
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/m/masterwork-transformation

>>50379331
Call me back when a firefighter can lasso a tornado, or can physically divert a river.

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>>50378275
i like trashfinder, im keeping this one

>>50379303
Admittedly I do IDPA and practice 2-3 times a month, so I'm pretty good, but even before I was shooting regularly I was pretty handily able to put 6 shots in the 8-10 range from 15 feet with a revolver and reload it with relative ease.

This makes me think they are all the stereotype dork nerds named Melvin who literally get a workout from going up and down stairs or lifting their science text book. Individuals so pathetic and weak that it's a wonder they managed to even secure a career.

>>50379377
>Shitseeker cultist tries to get people to stop saying Shitseeker
>Nobody listened

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>>50371785 (OP)
>>50372140
3.5<<<<<4e=PF<<<<<<5e=2e<<<<1e<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<chainmail
Prove me wrong
>protip
You can't

These are, by far, the saddest circlejerks on /tg/.

>>50379251
>This Sean K Reynolds guy is a 10/10 assfaggot.

I'd say 50% of it was SKR being being a jackass, but the other 50% of it was SKR's job was to basically be the "fall-guy" who had to go on the forums and justify Paizo's stupid decisions just so Buhlman didn't have to be the one getting blamed for it.

SKR's chilled out considerably since leaving Paizo and has already agreed that the crossbow/water balloon comparison argument was stupid, and that the Monk really needs some fixes.

That said, the new "fall-guy" is taking things much better than SKR and people don't hate him, especially since we know his class contributions for the Not!Psionic handbook got dicked over hard so Buhlman could put another 9th level spellcasting Not!Wizard class in.

>>50379413
What's the matter, isn't there enough anime child yiff going on in Shitseeker General to keep your attention?

>>50379352
No, no. You can't salt this wound worse then the devs already did themselves.

>>50379394
Or can't flip a mouse tied to their wrist into their hand fast?

>>50379422
>That said, the new "fall-guy" is taking things much better than SKR and people don't hate him, especially since we know his class contributions for the Not!Psionic handbook got dicked over hard so Buhlman could put another 9th level spellcasting Not!Wizard class in.
Wait, what happened here?

>>50379422
That's because Mark actually knows what he's doing. It's not his fault that Buhlman is a jackass and a thief.

>>50378750
Well, there's pathfinder unchained and weapon master/armor master handbooks, all of which effectively bumped rogue/monk/fighter up a tier.

But yeah, otherwise still pretty shit.

>>50379422
Wow I knew you Paizo cucks were fucking retarded but damn son you really are doing some serious damage control for them

>>50379458
tl;dr: guy who writes optimizing guides got hired by Paizo, started work on the Kineticist, had something pretty good going, aaaaaaand Buhlman fucked it up in favor of jerking off his own 9th level spellcasting class.

>>50379458
I forget the exact details, but he made the Kineticist class that was nice, flavorful, and potentially fun.

Then Buhlman got pissed that people were liking it more than Wizard class #5 and it got a bunch of "fixes" that made it borderline unplayable.

>>50379487
Man, fuck that nigga.

5e is pretty shitty combat. I'm getting so bored of it.

Pathfinder is definitely worse than say Rifts or Palladium Fantasy, but is way better than 3.0, 3.5, 4th and 5th.
The biggest complaint is that its so generic, and the min maxing is almost encouraged. Also duel classing is a joke in most systems

So who here is excited for pathfinder IN SPACE!

>>50378794
>>50378710
>>50378647
>>50378662
Where's the guy saying monk could obliterate in one turn a CR+2 creature now?

>>50379438
They created a spell that makes the masterwork quality go from 1 month + of uninterrupted work to 1 hour. You know, to prevent martials, with Master Craftman, from getting even footing.

>>50379589
Don't forget rifts beyond the supernatural being better!

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>>50379650
He's picking on other people to bait now that he's managed to extract the most amount of effort from you by repeating "prove it, faggot" over and over.

Well done, you sure showed him.

>>50379589
Don't fucking kid yourself. Pathfinder is 3.butthurt edition. An autistic attempt at fixing a broken game because they couldn't handle not being able to indulge in their power fantasies in 4

>>50379679
Beyond the Supernatural is a whole other setting, no need to put rifts infront of it

>>50379594
I am, but that's because I actually like the lore that's come from PF. Lots of it is wonderfully easy to lift wholesale and drop into my campaign world or tweak in certain ways to make it fit better.

And I ve been wanting to run a space fantasy game for a while.

>>50379716
Oops your right.

>>50379732
I just wish they would finish the game with magic book coming out some day

>>50379749
Sorry would you care to elaborate anon, are they coming out with something new?

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>>50379833
Paizo is coming out with Starfinder. It is, obviously enough, Pathfinder IN SPAAACE!

>>50379927
I believe you misspelled Shitseeker IN SPAAACE!

>>50379927
Place your bets on how much they rip off Spelljammer

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>>50379927
>mfw the real 2017 surprise is actually Paizo shutting down

>>50380286
That didn't particularly stop grognards sticking with 3.5e.

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>>50380261
I honestly don't care. If their fluff is good you can rest assured I will steal and tailor it for my own uses.

Jesus I really want to see WOTC show Spelljammer some love.

>>50380286
Let's be honest is that really likely? I may not be a fan of Pathfinder since it continues most of what I disliked about 3.X but last I heard Paizo was doing okay financially.

>>50377041
2e, the game that was literally never playtested, is not great tier. That game was a massive clusterfuck of inane shit and nonfunctional rules that most people promptly ignored.

>>50379833
2nd ed Beyond the supernatural has two companion books that have been forth comming for like 15 years

https://palladium-store.com/1001/category/Beyond-the-Supernatural.html

>>50380299
Yeah but 3.5 was good

>>50378339
System matters. Especially for gateway systems that teach people what to expect of the hobby.

>>50371785
Pathfinder was bad in 2009.
It's got a lot worse since then.

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Pathfinder is honestly the worst experience I've ever had playing tabletop RPGs, and I've played d20 Apocalypse.

>>50380793
kek

Do you have fun when you play it? Then play it. I cannot fathom what you get out of this. Jesus.

>>50380505
Oh fugg, cool.

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>>50375813
>5e is the worst

>>50376320
>t. someone who doesn't know what they're talking about

>>50380383
Didn't they waste a ton of money on pathfinder online? That's the last I heard of their finances.

>>50377252
>you should spend your time modifying a bad game instead of playing a good one

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>>50371785
I played Pathfinder for years and it succeeds very well at two things in my opinion. First, it actually feels and plays like an improvement of 3E D&D - if it were a video game, it would be the Collector's Edition with all the extra DLC and graphics improvements that were patched in later (i.e. 3.5). Second, it has great art, good formatting, and generally high-quality editing - not the best on the market but damn good.

Pathfinder's greatest problems come from its greatest strength - it's meant to feel and play just like D&D 3E. It's the most polished, high-quality version of 3E on the market... but ultimately, it's -only- D&D 3E. Everything wrong with that system is alive and well within Pathfinder. Casters are still incredibly versatile and powerful. The incredible bloat of feats and options has continued to plague character creation. There's a thousand little modifiers you have to add together just to determine whether you hit a guy or not in a fight, and a thousand more to see how much damage you're dealing. But a lot of players -like- the options, the modifiers, the complexity. They enjoy the character creation process just as much as they enjoy playing the game, and there's nothing wrong with that.

The way I see it, people who love Pathfinder love it because it's the best, most polished version of the system that satisfies them the most. People who hate Pathfinder hate it because no amount of polish will save the horrible mess that they see D&D 3E as. Both of these people are absolutely right, and neither of their beliefs contradicts the other. Pathfinder is like Hawaiian pizza - some people hate it, some people love it, but the pizza itself isn't inherently bad and the guy who made the pizza isn't a bad person for making it. Neither are the Pathfinder developers.

>>50371785
i dunno i play pathfinder and its pretty fun

>>50381193
There's no damn guarantee you'll find a good game with your search. Hell, there's no guarantee you'll find even a better game for what you're doing.

>>50376122
> Dragon Age is #5

>>50376371
First point's correct.

Second point's fucking stupid, because the OP text isn't "Pathfinder sure is financially unsuccessful."

I used to hate Pathfinder so much because its all my group would play.

Now Ive been forced to play it for so long Ive become super comfortable and familiar with the rules that making all the nonsense shit work together is like a fun puzzle.

I think I have Stockholm syndrome. This same thing happened to me with the fucking crazy 40k rules.

>>50381324
Learning new rules is a fucking drag,
Either let me play without knowing the rules (the GM-filters-my-intentions-through-rules solution), or ensure that I will only use these rules ever (the I-play-chess-forever solution).

>>50381357
>Learning new rules is a fucking drag
I remember when nerds were actually smart. Now you're all just retarded as fuck.

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>>50381387
>I remember when nerds were actually smart.
You're being sarcastic right

>>50381387
Guy has a mild point. When new splatbooks keep getting released and other people keep making new characters with more powerful options with a dozen classes or third party supplements, and your GM makes encounters more and more deadly, you either have to up your own game or get more useless.

Or roll a wizard or other tier 1 class.

>>50381533
>crybaby just couldn't help slipping in a few tears about how casters are broken
Why is it that people who don't know anything about the game in question always repeat this meme?

>>50381864
>Calling a commonly accepted fact among everyone who isn't a 3.5 grognard a meme
Nice one friend

>>50381201
>but the pizza itself isn't inherently bad
That's a bad example, you even said Pathfinder is flawed than the get to go. Taste is subjective, but efficiency and balance isn't. PF has serioud problems in the balance department, its caster supremacy has been pointed tons of times, also CMD make it even worse than 3.5.

Back in 3.5 to beat a Barlor you had to hit him and then roll against 1d20+32, now you fucking have to roll straight against 56 (which is is more than nat20+32) and like this example tons, there's a point that even if you make the best maneuver master character ever you still will fail 75% of the time and waste a turn. This din't happen as much in 3.5, I remember my monk tripping everybody, now I can't do shit but I still have to eat those goddamn bonus "Improved this maneuver you'll never be able to use" feats.

>>50381925
You forgot that maneuver feats now have been divided in two, old Improved Trip is now Improved Trip and Greater Trip, so not only maneuvers are worse, you also have to spend double the resources in them. Genius design.

>>50371785
>Date on screencap is 2008

Yeah, sure. okay.

>>50381158
Like four years of development and nothing to show for it. I think at one point they completely switched studios working on it, which is essentially a Duke Nukem-scenario death sentence.

>>50381941
You do have more feats though!

So casters can take even more caster feats while you have to take twice as many to get back a worse version of what you had before.

>>50381974
You're welcome to post some more recent screencaps of them being reasonable. Protip: you can't, because they aren't and never will be

>>50382068
Not gonna try. I kinda figured out where pathfinder really was in terms of quality around the point where i looked at the Summoner and Witch classes.

>>50376417
>>50381201
>if it were a video game, it would be the Collector's Edition with all the extra DLC and graphics improvements that were patched in later (i.e. 3.5)
where are the psionics and tome of battle then

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>neckbeards this jealous something is selling more than their special snowflake system
I've never even played a game of pathfinder but your impotent rage is so delicious.

>>50382040
I'm throwing money at the screen but nothing happens...

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>>50382193
See pic related for 1st, and tome of battle was never officially ported but a 3rd party modder called DSP made a homage mod called Path of War.

>>50382237
>DSP
Wowwwwwwwww

Seriously though how hilarious is it that a guy named after the worst person ever made an homage to the worst book ever for the worst system ever?

Shit Singularity right on cue

>>50371785
Seems perfectly reasonable to me.

>Play testing and rules discussion should be from actual play not theory crafting perfect situations on a forum.

> Balance shouldn't be the goal of an RPG as its not a competitive game, it's a group game with a hugely important fluff element in the role play bit. If you want a balanced RPG look at how successful 4E is.

>obviously the game designer has final say. Again if you want to play a game by popular committee and upset people on forums who probably never even played the game , try 4E

>>50381864
Why is it you are literally never-ever actually able to counter when people post points, faggot?

>>50382299
4e sold better then Pathfinder during its lifecycle, dude.

>>50382299
>If you want a balanced RPG look at how successful 4E is.
It's the Godwin's law everybody

And yes, balance should be a fucking goal because nobody likes to feel like the waterboy on a team even if he's also is "bringing somethign to the team".

>>50382313
And people eat at McDonald's in record numbers , your point ?

>>50382313
inb4 >b-but 4e is dead neener neener
Unlike Paizo, WotC is willing to move on and try new things

>>50382327
My point, you inbred fuck, is balance is good, and sells a game because IT OUT SOLD YOUR FUCKING WAIFU.

>>50382327
>If PF sells a lot it's because it's good
>If other game sells more is because society is retarded and buy whtatever shit they feed them
I love your mental gymnastics, gold medal for you.

>>50382300
>Mad because he's wrong
Dude just drop it. It's like that old man henderson trash, all your shitty trivial complaints magically fucking vanish outside of a fake story where a GM lets you do whatever you want.

>>50382300
The effort cost to trolling ratio isn't high enough to rate actual discussion in the system; ideally another person more knowledgable will put forth a heated discussion about it while the actual poster goes to attack savage worlds and bennies in two other threads.

>>50382344
Clearly not enough. Pathfinder thrived, while 4E is dead and buried.

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>DND person
>friends say "play pathfinder it's more advanced and fun it isn't streamlined it's what DND should've been"
>/pfg/fags say the same
>try Pathfindwr
>tell myself it's good for several months
>hit a breaking point and realize how unbalanced, flawed, underdeveloped, half-baked, poorly-designed, half-assed the game is
>rabid fanbase and SJW developers not helping

I unplugged and swallowed the PF Is Shit pill. It began when I read through the Feats list and Traits list and realized that all in all only around 12 of them total were worth taking out of dozens, if not hundreds. So many redundant traits and feats, it's crazy.

>>50376614
CMD/CMB is one of the stupidest concepts ever and one of the biggest reasons I hated Pathfinder. They should've scrapped it.

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>>50379927
>Pathfinder in Space
>Reskinning a system made for fantasy medieval combat into one for sci-fi action without making any real changes or adjustments

Wew lad. Because that worked out so fucking well for Star Wars D20.

>>50382506
Don't worry bro, it's not real. Paizo's going out of business, so...

>>50378173
What's the necessary stuff for it and whats the optional but really helpful shit?

>>50382455
The IDEA is good. The idea is solid, I like the idea.

The IMPLEMENTATION is a malignant cancer.

>>50382426
Yeah, its probably the same person, you're right.

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>>50382300

>>50382455
>>/pfg/fags say the same
No, we hate pathfinder.

>>50382556
Fair enough. I can see the concept working, but yeah, especially in Pathfinder it is cancer. It's baffling that they expect you to eat up situational and inferior feats to buff maneuvers you'll almost never use that become useless once you get past CR 10 anyway.

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>>50382542
Corebook. There is not a single thing that's actually introduced that's outside of the corebook, that you can't make with the corebook.

The helpful shit, though, is the Power Profile books, which give you a shitload of premade powers based on a theme(Magnetic, Electric, Magic, Radioactive, Life, Dark, and more), and Gadget Guides(Which do the same for a wide array of tech-stuff).

Its a superheros game, yes, but honestly, its highly action-fantasy style movielike and effects based, so its easy as a snap of the fingers to reskin.

Also, this.
>http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?279503-D-amp-D-in-M-amp-M-a-new-approach-to-rebalancing-3-5-PF

A guy uses the M&M mechanics to crank out a lot of classical effects.

>>50382698
So the bonus books are for the uncreative? Any PDFs or do I have to hunt for a sample on my own?

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>>50382726
For the creative and uncreative alike. I can crank out powers that surprise the people I play with, and I still use'm to farm for ideas.

And don't worry, I gotcha homie.

>https://www.mediafire.com/folder/026war1l4oo42/Mutants_and_Masterminds

Also, fan builds that I've found solid as hell:
>http://www.atomicthinktank.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=37545

>>50382751
Thanks friend-o. As much as I like giving away money my experience as a /v/irgin makes me all too wary of buying things without trying them at all.

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>>50382787
No, I getcha. There's also an SRD up. Use that if you favor net-based things.

And above all, enjoy!

The system does note explicitly it can break if you push it. Its a toolbox, it gives you all the tools to make anything. And yes, some of those combinations are game-breaking.

On the other hand, it actively warns you, AND the ST that if something's unfun? Talk it out and change it. The point of the game is fun.

The best metric I've found is:
Would you want to watch a movie/cartoon/read a book/comic about this character? If not, you dun fucked up.

>>50381925
A pineapple and ham pizza is just about as disgusting to a lot of people as caster supremacy is to others. The people who like Pathfinder like D&D 3E, therefore they like caster supremacy. If they didn't want caster supremacy they'd play something else, ergo Pathfinder isn't inherently terrible for having caster supremacy. Pathfinder polishes the flaws, it doesn't remove them because doing so would be like taking the pineapple off of the pizza.

>>50382193
Dreamscarred Press picked up the slack. I'd recommend the product but those guys are assholes. Just use the 3E Psionics and Tome of Battle and, I dunno, give them a feat every couple levels or something. I'm not the boss of you.

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>>50382787
Oh! And the DM's screen is basically the best one I've ever seen, its fucking fantastic.

>>50372140
>better than 4th

>>50382698
>>50382751
>>50382848
>Avatarfagging worthless piece of shit pretending to have a conversation with himself

Gee it's like Pathfinder came true

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>>50376779
How sad is your life that you need to try and ruin the fun of others to make yourself feel good?

>>50375813
B/X>AD&D=OD&D>>5e>Shit>>>>3.PF
4e is really it's own thing, but it seems like it would be a lot of fun to play

>>50382255
What?

>>50382527
*citation needed*

>>50382956
>Three different non-related pictures
>Avatarfagging
Uhuh.

>>50382956
>3 different pictures of different things (admittedly all animu girls)
>discussion is about an entirely different game
>the two (one being me) have entirely different styles of typing
Its fucks like you that ruin the board.

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>>50383402
HEY NOW. Only two of those are animu.

Jack-O is Guilty Gear, which is Vidya, and she's dressed as an Overwatch character.

>>50383462
>Shitseeker, Garbage Gear and Roverwatch

Didn't somebody already mention the Shit Singularity?

>>50383462
Oh, that reminds me, is there any reason to not go straight for 3e in M&M?

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>>50383503
You're on a roll with insults now, boyo!

Do Big Eyes Small Mouth, Maid RPG, Touhou Project, Golden Sky Stories and Nechronia next.

>>50383542
Bad Players Terrible Game, Pedophile Dogshit 1 and 2, Garbage Can Stories and Nobodygivesafuck

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>>50383529
Go for 3e, its the one I use. 2e still has a lot of annoying D&D-isms that 3e cut out, and it moved to a 'build your own power via effects' system rather then pre-packaged powers...and then gave you the Power Profiles in case you wanted pre-packaged powers anyway.

>>50383563
Now you're just repeating yourself. I'm sad your brief burst of creativity couldn't be sustained.

>>50382506
>Reskinning a system made for fantasy medieval combat into one for sci-fi action without making any real changes or adjustments

> Space-bows are unilaterally better than space-crossbow, because someone found a video of someone firing 10 arrows in 5 seconds.
> Guns can explode in your face.
> Space-Magic is all powerful.

Sounds too much like Warhammer 40k in my opinion (rifle vs. shotgun, plasma weapon, psykers)

>>50383743
Sometimes the truth isn't as exciting as fiction

>>50383529
3E is lacking a few features that 2E had and secondary stats not being divorced from primary stats can be really annoying in certain situations.

>>50372140
>It's better than Fourth or Fifth Ed.
Pathfinder rook all the problems with 3.PF and made it worse.

>>50376120
>implying 3E doesn't have caster supremacy
How blind are you?

>>50383542
bad players terrible game and garbage can storys were good at least

>>50383563
>Pedophile Dogshit
i wonder just how much i can trigger you

>>50377237
>actually has a tier 3 balace going on with enough classes and types of classes that you don't need the broken ass core shit anymore
Are you crazy? This is the same company that created the Summoner and practically made it core.

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>>50383563
>Pedophile Dogshit
i wonder just how much i can trigger you

>>50385678
fuck meant to quote>>50383563