MTG

This general sucks. OP should just wait for someone who knows what their doing next time

Pro-tip: put Mtg modern general in the subject line, not just mtg

>>50355240
fuck you, asshole

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>What's your favorite card in modern?
Lightning Bolt.
>How do you feel about proxy cards? Have you ever used them in sanctioned events?
I've never gotten around to using them.
>Is there a deck you think is almost tier worthy, but just never took off?
Monoblack Aggro- if it only decent one drops.
>How did you get into modern?
Been playing since before Mirrodin, and took a long hiatus after Zendikar dropped the first time until Return to Ravnica. I had the back catalogue of cards, I hated how Standard and Extended rotated, and I didn't have the Duals for Legacy so why not Modern?
>How spiky (competitive) are you out of 10?
Hard to say- I feel very competitive, but I rarely bother driving to the store to play(what with the closest being over an hour away). The few events at Gencon I played I skipped out or left to go have fun/eat with my friends.

>>50355321
He's right you know.
Still, it's better than the thread we had a few days ago that didn't even have a subject line.

>>50355321
Not my fault you don't know how to make a thread

>>50355543

>You
>Implying that's op

Look I started making these threads because nobody else was doing it. If you dont like how I'm making them, you do it next time.

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>this triggers the general

>>50355713
>This triggers scrubs and GBx players
So yes, you are correct

>>50355630
>says i'm implying
>admits he's OP

>>50355872

>reading comprehension
I'm op, I'm not the dude you replied to you fucking mong

>>50355713

What does 2 color need to be a viable choice over 3 color? With looser land bases we might see blood moon victims less salty but I don't know if there's any 2 color viable tier deck.

So to take a brief break for shit posting, is it worth it to pick up Dredge right now as it is pretty cheap in comparison to a lot of other decks? With Aether Revolt looming what are the odds they kill the deck?

Thoughts?

http://articles.mtgcardmarket.com/my-modern/

>>50355940
>buying into anything new this close to Jan 18.

Sit on what you've got. Prices will fluctuate if anything big goes.

>>50355940

The deck is alright. When it draws nuts, it wins, but you can say that about any combo or aggro deck in Modern.

Of course, WotC might and will probably listen to the shitty community shouting for bans. The correct decision is to wait for January announcements. It is however, a wise decision to invest in the lands. Dredge usually has a fetch/shock base or rainbow manabase. Buy the fetches and shocks because even if they nerf or outright kill the deck, you still have cards that dont change value

>>50356004

>tl;dr I want to play Standard

Boohoogland can get fucked

>>50355940

It's fine, even if pieces get banned you just transition over to Legacy dredge fairly easily.

>>50356011
>>50356044
>>50356105
Im just asking now as Grave Trolls went on sale in Canada land for an ok discount. I know if anything gets hit in Dredge its Grave Troll. It would only be like 35 Canadian for the play set. Its just if the card is gone next month its was 35$ down the shitter.

>>50356004

Everything seemed like a reasonable argument until he reached the Phyrexian Mana point and onwards. I sure as hell don't want SSG to be banned because I play Ad Nauseam and that deck isn't even super fast and does not break any of the proposed rules of Modern.

As for Blood Moon, Choke or Boil being banned this is his most reasonable argument but neither of these cards would be an issue if we had some reasonable mana rocks to bypass the land restrictions e.g Chrome Mox.

>>50356233
A gamble is a gamble. How lucky do you feel?
Arguments go both ways on whether a GGT ban would do anything, and therefore if the card will get banned at all if doing so does nothing.

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>>50356004
>unban jtms and stonrforge mystic
alright I can see that
>unban bloodbraid elf
>ban blood moon, boil, choke
FULL retard

>>50356233

Put it this way. How much playtime will you get out of the deck after you build it? How much of the deck will survive even if GGT gets banned and will the deck still be a solid contender with a new list?

Now think about how much those GGT will be if they DON'T get banned after the B&R announcements before they settle back to a reasonable price many months or years later. Also $35 for a playset is quite reasonable given that they're going for $12 USD individually which would normally put you at $48 USD for a playset.

>>50356004
>Unban sfm
>Ban batterskull, literally the only reason why the card would see play
>B-but muh indestructible 4/4
>impliying your opponent can always bounce it

>>50356401
Don't know if you checked, but 35 Canadabucks are 26 USD. That's beyond "reasonable" and into "generous" discount tier.

If GGT goes, he loses 26 USD/35 Canadian and has four useless cards.
If GGT stays, he loses 22 USD/30 Canadian buying them up without the discount. Or he doesn't buy them at all.

This is borderline 50/50 "Feelin' lucky punk?" territory.

>>50356660
yeah. I hate to try divining intent, but this seems like the store owner making a 50:50 bet on whether GGT is banned.

>>50356105
As someone who is on dredge and terrified of the funhammer, do you have a list?

Also is manaless dredge viable competitively in legacy? I can't afford dual lands.

>>50356699

>Also is manaless dredge viable competitively in legacy? I can't afford dual lands.

Yes. That's the whole reason why someone made a manaless version. Bear in mind you will have 0 chance to win against anyone dropping a Rest in Peace or Turn 0 Leyline of the Void but welcome to Legacy where some degenerate fast decks lose to a single card e.g Belcher, Oops all Spells, Manaless Dredge, etc.

Merfolk is fun!! FUN!!!

>>50356821
>laughing_elves.jpg
You're right, Merfolk is fun.

>>50356699

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/archetype/legacy-manaless-dredge-30489#paper

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/archetype/legacy-manaless-dredge-30489#paper

Dredge doesn't even play dual lands which is what makes it appealing as a first time deck so don't stress about not being able to afford duals. Bear in mind a regular non-manaless list of Dredge does play Lion's Eye Diamond however you do not need to have them in if you want to play because prior to LED being played Dredge used to play Tireless Tribe. Basically budget(non-LED) Dredge in Legacy is Dredge from like 2 or years ago.

>>50356699
>>50356880

Fuck me I posted the same link twice. Here's non-manaless Dredge.

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/archetype/legacy-dredge-30429#paper

>>50355329
What would go in a monoblack aggro list? The zombie 1drops seem alright.

>>50356660

Nah I don't live in US or Canada so I wasn't sure what the conversion would have been. But either way from what you posted i'll take those odds. Technically I don't lose money until I attempt to sell those cards.

How to counter Tron? I'm a bit of a beginner and i just had my first game against these Urza's lands and they gave my opponent way more mana than i had at a very early stage of the game....

Maybe blood moon would help?

>>50357008

What deck are you using?

>>50357008

Ghost Quarter is better. Your other option is to play Counterspells of sorts and Hand Disruption. But what are you playing anyway for the most part?

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http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/22-11-16-modern-mono-black-vampires/

Any cards I could throw in to make this faster and more competitive?

>>50356926
Red mana followed by Lightning Bolt

>>50357008
Play infect

>>50357059
Consider having a sacrifice outlet if you're running Bloodghast and Kalastria Highborn.
Bloodthrone Vampire, or even Indulgent Aristocrat could work. Possibly do some digging of your own and see if anything could be added to this set up?

Predator's Gambit is also strictly better than Unholy Strength, even if you don't proc the Intimidate often.

>>50357043
>>50357052
I'm playing Jund btw

>>50355106
i'd rate myself a 5 on the spike scale. i generally play to win but i also like my sub-optimal fun-ofs

>>50357059
>faster
i'd slow it down and go midrange instead
cut 1 drops, add liliana and kalitas, 2-3 more removal, 2 more discard, full mutavaults
>>50357353
as far as sac outlets, how about viscera seer?

>>50357601
Then youre just fucked. Jund has a terrible match-up against Tron

>>50357601
Play 4 Fulminator Mage in the sideboard and try to chain them with Kholaghan's command.

Cry when not even that can protect your anus from Karn's silver cock

>>50357601
>Bit of a beginner
>$2000 deck

Do I absolutely need the vials for Eldrazi and Taxes to be good?

>>50357932
He could have been playing with proxies, on xmage/cockatrice, borrowed a deck, etc. Don't be dense on purpose

>>50357932
I"m borrowing my friend's deck

>>50357899
Thanks for the advice

I had heard from some people that blood moon would help here but it seems like its not that good against tron, they just pop it after they're ready to go off, Ghost Quarter >>50357052
kills the lands they need to combo permanently right?

>>50357601

It's a bad matchup. Bring in as many Fulminator Mages as you can and maximise the Hand Disruption.

>>50357968

All Blood Moon does is slow them down but they are still inevitable. Ghost Quarter is a decent option since they don't play too many basics but bear in mind since you're playing Jund you don't really have the luxury of playing too many sources of colorless mana.

>>50357949
Yes

>>50357968
And no not even LD really stops tron rape train. The entire deck is designed to get those lands out as soon and as consistently as possible. So they can just dig/tutor for more, or use crucible of worlds to just play them from the GY

What's the appeal of cards in languages you don't speak?

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>tfw want to play affinity
>tfw too poor to play good decks
This format, man.

>>50358124
If you still want to play a zoo strat you could play actual zoo.

>>50358176
But artifacts, man

>>50358197
That's just another way to get hated out

>>50358176
Doesn't zoo want goyf?

>>50356926
Are you asking one-drops or just generic creatures? If the latter Vampire Nighthawk and Phyrexian Obliterator come to mind.

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>>50358100
What's the appeal of shiny cards?

>>50358202
Not if you go human zoo. In which case you want Cavern of Soy gay

>>50358197
I mean you could get like the cheap part of it which are the memeknights and ornis and go for a Jeskai ascendancy + Cryptolith Rite + oops all spells into a X fire ball or grape shot, or swinging with the giant creatures.

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>>50357353
Yeah, I was definitely going to play around with sacrifice some more. Thanks for bringing Predator's Gambit to my attention, going to swap those in.

>>50357731
I haven't been able to play in a modern tournament yet but I've heard people say that if you don't win on early turns you're pretty much fucked. Will the added removal and discard slow aggro enough? If I go midrange would I be able to do well at an FNM modern tournament? Also not adding Liliana yet, trying to keep this deck semi-budget and have a feeling she's being reprinted in MM17 so hopefully she'll drop in price.

>>50358333
If she does get reprinted, she'll be a mythic in a limited print run set. The price might even go up with increased demand

>>50358100

Sometimes they're cheaper.

>>50358433
More accurately: sometimes the currency exchange is favorable.

>>50358124
but you can make a pretty decent affinity deck on the cheap.

>>50358333
Jund is the most cancerous deck right now in the meta due to how flexible it is.
You want to go turbo agro? Drop Lil for some gobo guides and drop inquesitions for more bolt cards.
You want to go late game control? Add an Obnix resparked or two and remove some shit like Bob. Remove the thoughseizes for some board wipes like Anger of Gods or Damnation.
Want to go meme combo? You could go punishing fire control if the card wasn't banned.

am i a dick for playing gu infect? everyone i play on xmage quits immediately when they see the infect

Is death shadow zoo a rewarding deck to pilot?

Does it have a good midrange/control matchup?

>>50358486
>You want to go turbo agro? Drop Lil for some gobo guides and drop inquesitions for more bolt cards.
>You want to go late game control? Add an Obnix resparked or two and remove some shit like Bob. Remove the thoughseizes for some board wipes like Anger of Gods or Damnation.
Nobody actually does this

>>50358494
No?
You're playing a competitive game. The goal is to win. Kitchen table is where you go if you want to have fun.
Zombie Hunt won't work anywhere else.

>>50358467
List? I just can't find a decent replacement for Nexus or Mox in the deck, mainly because those are the best fucking cards in the deck

>>50358486
>your deck is cancerous because of this thing you could do if a certain card wasn't banned

Here's a (you) for giving me a chuckle.

>>50358453
Has almost nothing g to so with currency exchange, and almost everything to do with supply vs. demand

>>50355106

Is this card even viable anywhere even with urborg?

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>>50358508
Anger of Gods i have seen boarded in, never seen ob nix resparked but who knows

Anger is a pretty good sweeper honestly, i miss having it in Standard, right now Red is trash tier in standard and there is no good red sweeper at all, radiant flames is the best we got and its a pitiful joke compared to anger of the gods .

>>50358519

Look up "Tempered Steel," I believe that's the name for the budget-friendly build of Affinity.

>>50359366

This should have been an X cost like Skyrider Elf

>>50359366
>>50359317
>>50359398

I dun quoted the wrong post

>>50359236
No, OP sucks at modern generals

>>50359317

radiant flames is great but only in a 3+ color deck

>>50359317
I've seen an Ob in the sideboard for grinding, he's certainly not in stock lists but he's an alright card.

>>50358514
unless you're personally packing Spellskites I wouldn't say that. I bet a 1000$ treasure hunt deck could go toe-to-toe with most decks in the format.

>>50358333
can't make any comments about how you'll do at fnm without knowing your meta but i think mono black is much better suited to a grind game than speed. if you want to play aggro go red or green.
The following advice applies to a midrangier approach
either 3-drop lili would probably be fine. It's really good to have a permanent source of card advantage like that
if you keep a low curve and run 1 and 2 cmc interaction i think you can keep up with aggro. i'd play duress over distress and victim of night over urge to feed.
in general i think you want 8 or more cards you can play on turn 1.

if I want to run Eldritch Evolution should I also run Chord of Calling?

>>50358467

>pretty decent
Every time someone says this, it pisses me off. No, tempered steel is not a good deck.

>>50358124
Too late man, the time to buy in was like 2013 or so

Is the white splash in merfolk really necessary? I've had good results and I've never run it.

Any U/W fish players want to weigh in?

>>50360668
Choke and boil used to be a lot more common in modern and having lands which survived those cards was a significant benefit. Most decks I've seen recently are just mono blue.

>>50360668

It was pretty much what >>50360707 said. Back during a time when Twin decks were popular so Choke would just be good against quite a large chunk of the metashare. Nowadays I wouldn't even bother worrying about it because nobody is probably playing Choke/Boil these days.

>>50360569
>$1000 treasure hunt deck
Judge foil basics don't make your deck stronger, anon.

>>50361183

They do when i fling it in your face and eyes ensuring the foiling process cuts in deep.

>>50355106
>What's your favorite card in modern?
Life from the Loam
>How do you feel about proxy cards? Have you ever used them in sanctioned events?
I'm on the fence. For FNM I think there should be some allowance but they should be a quality fake and not just a paper with 'goyf' written on it. I do believe quality reserve list fakes should be tourney legal but this is modern general, no reserve list cards are legal.
>Is there a deck you think is almost tier worthy, but just never took off?
Dredge, then Prized Amalgam got printed.
>How did you get into modern?
Started watching SCG coverage and watching the popular decks.
>How spiky (competitive) are you out of 10?
Up there if it's a tournament. If not, -shrug- I still want to be playing competitive level but I'm more relaxed on rules and you forgetting to play your land and playing it at the beginning of my turn.

>50353807
I didn't say mtgo not allowing you to make illegal plays was a good or bad thing. It's good for those learning the game/a deck but I do agree it's worse for tournaments/competitive play.

Why shouldn't I main surgical extraction? I have the hand hate to get there pieces, threats and removal. Taking all copies of path, counters is surely a good thing.

I'm playing a Mardu midrange with tokens and young p if that helps. I almost always sb extraction in.

>>50356004
>JTMS
I think it would be fine in modern. 3 loyalty is killed easily. Even Lili at 4 is easy to kill. When he plusses to 5, a little harder but if your opponent is plussing Jace to protect it, he isn't gaining card advantage, just scrying you. That is a powerful ability but not so strong it's unbeatable.
>BBE
Strong but I dont think it would be a huge problem. The elf into Goyf is a strong play but definitely not unbeatable.
>Stoneforge Mystic
>Batterskull
Batterskull is really the problem, and Jitte is already banned. The swords are strong but not oppressive and you still need to equip them. Batterskull is strong because it auto equips to germ. KCommand trades for it 1 for 1 but you need to wait until they put the equipment onto the battlefield and be playing black/red. Still, Stoneforge is a strong card but I don't think stronger than Snapcaster/Goyf/Bob without Jitte and Batterskull. This also makes D&T stronger, which is a deck that uses mostly plains and babies can play this and not complain about Blood Moon
>Eye o Ugin
>Eldrazi Temple, Ancient Stirrings
I agree with this swap. Yeah, Eye produces two mana for each Eldrazi but can't produce colorless by itself for other spells and you can't have more than one on the battlefield. Hoogland brings up tron getting stronger with Eye unban and suggests Stirrings ban, which is probably the correct card to take from all drazi decks.
>Amalgam
I agree with all of his points but I play dredge :I
>phyrexian mana
I dont completely agree but decks playing Probe and Mutagenic Growth are not trying to play fair games of magic. I'd be happy with this either way.
>Mox Opal + SSG
I agree. Theyd be fair is SSG needed you to exile another red card, pay 1 life and get RR, I think it might be okay, but that might be worse. Mox Opal really should only produce colorless.
>Blood Moon Boil Choke
I agree here. Id like to see Wasteland introduced into Modern but since that's not going to happen Id rather see these cards go.

>>50361360

If you're almost always siding a card in then it should probably be main. But ask yourself this, does mainboarding Surgical Extraction improve your 50/50 worse matchups game 1?

>>50357601
You COULD play crucible/loam + GQ in addition/instead of KCommand + Fulminators

>>50361360
Depend if you're sideboarding out the same card every time. It could be that extraction is better than the worst card in any given match up, but all your cards are on average better than extraction.

>>50358301
>wurm spiral maschine
>wurm coil engine
is that a cheapo chinaman knockoff? I'm pretty sure German is just English with a German accent and some dots over a couple letters.

Source: I was in Frankfurt airport, someone sneezed and someone else said gesundheit

>>50361382
Loam does nothing in the face of relic and Crucible is too slow and easy to answer with Nature's Claim/Karn/Ostone, Tron can bring in their own Loam to run Jund out of green sources and start playing the game again.
>>50357601
You're better off just scooping and getting a beer before the next round than trying to get MCL Tarmogoyf+4 bolts hands.

>>50360606
http://articles.mtgcardmarket.com/returning-to-my-roots/

>>50356880
Why doesn't manaless play Bazaar?

>>50361415

Because BANNED.

>>50361404
I had could in all caps saying it's a thing he could do. Fulm + KCommand is probably the best way to fight their lands, even though you're still going to lose that fight most of the time.

In tron, would you play Crucible or Loam? I want to pick the deck up soon.
>Loam costs 2 mana every time, including green
>Crucible costs 3 mana once
>Loam is hated by relic/other GY hate that I may or may not have myself
>Crucible is bopped by artifact destruction that they probably have because tron plays enough artifacts that artifact hate is probably better than random other meh cards in most fair decks

Basically downside of G and hit by GY hate or hit by artifact hate.

>>50361423
Can you tell I don't play legacy?

>>50355240
Modern sucks, this thread is art.

>>50361395
I hope thats bait

>>50356004
I think unbanning JTMS is fine in this meta, but it's arguably too good if the meta ever slows down. So either we have to assume modern will always be extremely fast, or we have to go into an unban knowing eventually (or even soon depending on what is printed) jace will have to go right back on the ban list. I doubt wizards likes either possibility.
I can see the argument that SFM limits strong equipment from being printed, but they're already not being printed. At least in pod's case creatures in standard were actually pushed, the most recent equipment is barely standard playable, let alone modern.
I haven't thought long enough on what sort of decks swapping eye for temple would produce and how strong they'd be, so I can't comment on that one.
Banning amalgan hits the deck too hard imo, and it'll go back to being too strong if another similar card is ever printed. I don't think dredge is over powered currently.
I'd love for phyrexian mana to be banned on a personal level, but objectively I think they're fine in modern.
I think the fast mana in modern currently is fine. I don't see any decks besides some dredge lists using SSG, except ad nauseam which doesn't use it to accelerate more expensive cards out earlier like other decks do.
The 8th edition cards are fine. They're not overpowered, and just because a card annoys you doesn't mean it deserves a ban.

>>50361438
this thread is full of people who all know more than any pro player and know exactly what is best for the game and what is best for WotC's profit margin

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>>50361441

>>50361436
Loam is strictly better since the Arbiter/Fulminator matchups are the ones where you don't need Relic (shrinking goyf helps but Jund is a bye even if you just passed the first 3 turns), it can be cast sooner off the forest GQ gets you (most of the time) and can't be hated out. Loam+GQ lock is also the only way to win the mirror from the draw.

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>hop into watching random game on cockatrice
>note says decent decks

>>50361464
Do you know what strictly better means? Loam isn't strictly better. It's downside is that it costs G. That's not much of a downside but it still isn't strictly better.
we're ignoring creature types because we're not maro

>>50361478
People that build shitty decks want to test them against real decks, so they flood the decent decks section.

>>50361491
>Amulet Sigarda?
>mono B discard? Where are the racks?
Which deck is supposed to be the decent deck?

>>50361489
It's not literally strictly better but is for all intents and purposes which amounts to the same thing, the deck has 12+ sources of green and 4 colorless tutors to find one.

>>50361500
none of them. They're both there because they want to play against decent decks with their shitty decks.

>>50361447
Listen up. You can make all the (good) arguments for unbanning Jace all you want. But you have to fucking realize it doesn't matter how irrelevant he is from a gameplay perspective.

The ONLY thing that matters is that Jace is a $70 card right now. And if he is unbanned, he will become a $140 card immediately even if he sees no play. That is all that fucking matters, and it is indicative of everything that is wrong with Magic. And for that sheer reason Wizards will not unban him because of the fucking uproar about the price of cards.

The price of cards is a problem, Wizards knows this. But the last thing they want to do is throw gasoline on a fire they are not willing to put out.

There is not a single thing that has to do with the game that makes Magic terrible - it all has to do with anti-consumer practices from Wizards and greedy fuckers that have entered the community. And every stupid motherfucker who writes articles without acknowledging that problem is either in on the take or trying to get Wizards' attention for free publicity or temporary employment.

>host game on cockatrice
>modern format
>note says modern 2/3
>win die roll
>open expedition map, urza's mine, urza's tower, karn
>man, learning to play tron is easy
>play mine, play map
>guy asks if I'm playing standard
>say no
>guy leaves
god bless cockatrice players

>modern on cockatrice
>T1 looting, discard grave troll and some random other card who gives a shit
>”you have been kicked”
C O C K A T R I C E

>>50361628
some guy was hosting with his note 2/3 competitive
I was playing dredge and stomp the jund guy G1. He kicks me. I PM him and ask why he kicked me. He said he wasn't interested in G2.
C O C K A T R I C E

>>50361628
>modern on cockatrice
>bring spell out onto the field instead of stack
>it was early game, field wasn't even cluttered
>get kicked
>"I don't want to play with people that don't understand how the stack works"
C O C K A T R I C E

>>50361653
>modern on cockatrice
>playing grixis control
>play against some UB zombie brew
>have terminate/bolt/KCommand/snap+the former for everything
>play tasigur exiling 5
>"wizards banned all the delve cards"
>get kicked

C O C K A T R I C E

>>50361653
Nah that shits me, you deserved it

>>50361653
>>50361723
use the fucking stack, it's not hard to do

people who use counters for prowess are obnoxious

people who don't use counters for counters and just do +/- the P/T are obnoxious

people who don't set P/T of things that aren't even constantly changing are obnoxious, like grim flayer or equipment

>>50361723
There's a difference between:
>Using the field for a spell once
and
>Not knowing the stack at all
In any case, a 'use the stack bro' would suffice.

how do you dredge on cockatrice?

I put the card I'm dredging on the stack, right click the deck, put top X into graveyard, move dredged card to hand

people who ask me to say what modes I'm using on cryptic command as soon as I put it on the stack as I'm typing counter, draw are the worst

>>50361437

Yes I did and that's fine.

Bazaar of Baghdad just makes Dredge crazy though. Some lists just play Bazaar and maybe 1-4 other lands and others play like 14 lands which is fairly high for Vintage.

>>50361628
>affinity vs bloodmoonchalice.dec
>lose g1 to anger
>g2 lethal inkmoth threatening to end next turn, lands gideon jura
>swing it to 2 counters from 8
>only removes 1
>"inkmoth doesnt deal poison to pw"
>...
>tell him how it works, win 2 turns later
>in g3 opponent goes first, lands gemstone cavern pitching a card and tries to play chalice for 1
>"you're going first so you can't do that"
>~ lost connection to the game
C O C K A T R I C E

>>50355106
>What's your favorite card in modern?
Blood Moon. I don't even run it. I just love how butt hurt greedy mana-base players get.
>How do you feel about proxy cards? Have you ever used them in sanctioned events?
Are you trying to derail the thread?
>Is there a deck you think is almost tier worthy, but just never took off?
No.
>How did you get into modern?
Wanted to play more games then just 3 matches of standard at FNM every week.
>How spiky (competitive) are you out of 10?
I'm on a strict budget out of 10.

>>50361534
>But the last thing they want to do is throw gasoline on a fire they are not willing to put out.
Wizards is the kind of company that would try to put out a fire with gasoline.
Although in all fairness to them, I don't think they want to be the villain. Their just the ones stuck holding the wolf by the ears.

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post cards that you wish you could play fairly but are either plain old broken or don't work when trying to play them fairly

I'll start: pic related

>>50361500

The Amulet Titan deck aka "Amulet Bloom post-ban" deck is actually alright. Instead of dropping absurd shit turn 2 and 3 it's like Ad Nauseam in that it goes off more often than not on turn 4 or turn 5.

>>50361986
I don't wish to play Standard, but I could imagine someone saying basically everything past 5cmc that has an impact, see Tron.

>>50361947
>greedy

>C. Wescoe's BW Eldrazi & Taxes manabase
>3 basics
>2 colors
>greedy

4 Caves of Koilos
4 Concealed Courtyard
3 Shambling Vent
1 Godless Shrine
2 Plains
1 Swamp
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Ghost Quarter

Do you want mana to look like standard?
4 Hissing Quagmire
4 Blooming Marsh
7 Forest
7 Swamp
1 Evolving Wilds

>>50361993
>goes off more often than not on turn 4 or turn 5
More inconsistently and doesn't kill deterministically, easier to interact with so strictly worse than AN.
>>50361999
>3 basics and nothing but duals, utility and sol lands is not greedy guys!
Getting mooned is just karma when your game plan is to hope mana screw your opponent and beating in with low-impact shit before they can draw more land.

Yugioh has monsters creatures that say they can only be special summoned cast from your hand by using their own effect. Why can't MTG put a similar clause on creatures?

>~ cannot enter the battlefield unless it was cast.

This would allow WotC to create more impactful creatures like Griselbrand and whatnot but they can't be cheated out.

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>>50362041
>Emrakul
>Blightsteel Colossus
>Iname as One

This is bait.

>>50360569
Why would you play Ob sideboard when new Chandra is god main?

>>50362015
You're going to say anything other than 20 snow covered mountains or 4 arid mesa, 9 plains, 1 mountain and 11 r/w duals is greedy

>>50362077
If they couldn't be cheated out, why would that be worse for the game?

>>50362084
I don't see any reason for hyperbole. If you don't fetch basics or even better yet don't play any and don't have a plan for Blood Moon (like eg. Tron does) you deserve every loss you get from it.

>>50362015

>More inconsistently and doesn't kill deterministically, easier to interact with so strictly worse than AN.

Incorrect, you clearly don't play the deck. It beats up Jund and other BGx decks well that AN has trouble against game 1. Only thing the deck folds hard to is Blood Moon due to the super greedy mana base.

>>50362106
What's greedier then? Grixis with 3 islands, 2 swamp and a mountain? Or Wescoe's manabase?

>>50362098
I'm pointing out cards that have methods in place to keep you from reanimating them, or force you to use very specific reanimator spells.

Reanimator isn't even a good or very popular archetype outside of Legacy. It's certainly not affecting Wizard's view of the game.

>>50362041
phage the untouchable

>>50362107
So if Amulet Bloom had a bad jund MU back in the day why would a neutered version of the deck that relies on ramp dorks that die to everything as well as get discarded have a good one?

>>50361390
>>50361376
Ok that makes sense. I usually remove the same few cards for extraction. On its own it's basically worthless but with my removal suite it feels like a combo.

Also what do you think of this for threats. I'm running Mardu colours and have all the dank removal available to me plus several Planeswalkers. Lingering souls, brimraz, young p and swift spear. I have played test all but swift spear in this deck and they haven't let me down yet.

>>50362129
swiftspear doesn't seem like it fits. The rest of your threats want to grind out games, swiftspear isn't very good at that.

>>50362125
It didn't have a bad jund matchup.

>>50362162
>a+b+c+d.dec didn't have a bad mu versus discard, lotv, decay, pulse, fulminator mages, ancient grudge
Sure, if you had leyline in your g2/3 openers and killed on turn 2-3, realistically 50/50 to unfavored.

>>50361999
>21 nonbasic lands
That's greedy.

>>50362125

It never had a bad Jund matchup? Again please stop talking if you never played the deck.

You topdeck better than Jund if the game drags on a bit. Also Mortuary Mire is a mew card that has been printed since you can also Transmute for it with Tolaria West to bring back a Titan if need be or various Pact's still. If Jund brings in Fulminator Mages then yes that can be troublesome but all in all you play far more lands out and more mana than Jund will have.

>>50362129

Swiftspear is for aggro decks and your deck does not seem to be aggro seeing as you said it is much more midrange. If you're playing Young Pyro and in Mardu colours then you should be playing Monastery Mentor but Mentor may be a bit too slow for Modern but still worth testing.

what's the deal with resuming U-tron in this present meta?
12 tron
1 accademy ruins
1 tolaria west
1 oboro, palace in the clouds
1 ghost quarter
9 island

4 thirst for knowledge
4 condescend
3 remand
3 repeal
2 fabricate
1 cyclonic rift
2 snapcaster mage
2 wurmcoil engine
1 treasure mage
1 sundering titan
4 expedition map
3 talisman of dominance
2 chalice of void
2 mindslaver
1 oblivion stone
sb:
3 spatial contortion
4 relic of progenitus
2 hurkyl's recall
2 pithing needle
2 spell snare
1 witchbane orb
1 grafdigger's cage
thoughts:
too much lands?
are the inteeaction between tolaria and chalice of void any worth?
is thought knot seer a must have since he can finish the job of card like remand and repeal?
is spacial contortion a better option than dismember?
and also, the snow covered island + scrying sheets would be any good?

>>50362252
just played the longest G1 against mono U tron with GW tron
I path'd germ and he bounced batterskull so he didn't get a land.
I world breaker his wurmcoil.
about to cast ugin and start bolting him and the phone rings disconnecting me from the internet

>>50362252

>is spacial contortion a better option than dismember?

Without a doubt, you only care about the early aggressive stuff but you can still keep 1-2 Dismember for the bigger stuff that you may want to hit. Filigree Familiar replaces Bottle Gnomes in the side and is a great mini sad robot.

>>50362181
I play jund and during that time Bloom was a bad match up because liliana did literally nothing on turn 3 and you couldn't cast your discard spells fast enough to disrupt the combo thanks to all the redundancy. Sure if they kept a bad hand you could get there but more often than not you lose the match

>>50362252
Just play the full set of chalice, the plan is to clown free wins in current meta instead of 'honest' control, Dismember's better vs Eldrazi and DS and gets around chalice 2 (vs Affinity). 1 Mindslaver is plenty, 3-4 Wurmcoils to stabilize vs aggro.

>>50362114
You can't argue with this guy. It's the same faggot every thread who thinks that nonbasic lands are unfun and they are killing the game so he masturbating to videos of people getting blood moon locked on youtube

>>50362252
Oh and 1 Spell Burst at least to lock up your opponent if you have tron online but nothing to do.

>>50362220
I tried mentor. He is a bit slow for my deck in general. I have an esper tokens that runs him and he is a power house there.

Yh I thought as much about swift spear. I just need an easy low cost threat to drop t1 or t2. The thing about mentor is, if I already have a young p on the board mentor is over kill. It only takes five or six tokens to win a game. Maybe I'll jist go back to having raise the alarm as my early/low cost threat.

>>50361916
>expecting C O C K A T R I C E to not be C O C K A T R I C E
AUTiSM

>>50362291
yeah GW tron is surely way more viable than mono-U
>>50362315
i've wondered about filigree when i was thinking about replace for solemn simulacrum wich i found good but a little bit dull...
>>50362337
i was thinking about the same thing. use huge tron mana for bitch out the opponent's lock down like ensnaring, blood moon. unfortunately i can't charge the chalice below than three, so i've still wondered about "honest" control

>>50358304
what is this crazy fireballing deck?

>>50362393

An easy low cost threat to drop 1 or 2 in Mardu colours is like Grim Lavamancer, Student of Warfare, Figure of Destiny, Boros Swiftblade, Vexing Devil or Goblin Guide just to name a few. You got more disruptive guys like Tidehollow Sculler if you wished too.

>>50362125

>Bloom
>Bad Jund matchup

It's time you stopped posting son

>>50362346
To be fair, lands in general are the worst designed aspect of magic. Hearthstone is partially successful because it has a less toxic mana system.

Of lands, the worst part are rare or mythic nonbasic lands. Wizards could print good uncommon nonbasics without ruining limited.

>>50362566
Holy fuck, of all the b8 in this thread, this has got to be the worst

>>50362291
1 Spellskite
2 Wurmcoil Engine
2 World Breaker
2 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger

4 Karn Liberated
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

4 Chromatic Sphere
4 Chromatic Star
4 Expedition Map
4 Ancient Stirrings
4 Sylvan Scrying

3 Path to Exile
3 Oblivion Stone
2 Relic of Progenitus

4 Urza's Mine
4 Urza's Power Plant
4 Urza's Tower
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Sanctum of Ugin
3 Razorverge Thicket
1 Brushland
1 Forest

SB: 2 Rest in Peace
SB: 3 Blessed Alliance
SB: 3 Nature's Claim
SB: 1 Ravenous Trap
SB: 3 Warping Wail
SB: 1 Ghost Quarter
SB: 2 Life from the Loam

Playing Tom Ross' list. Someone told me Loams are good. Should I run 2 Spellskite and 4 path? Against general meta, keep 2 relics in the main? Should I add thragtusks? Someone said they're not needed.

>>50362581
I sincerely hold all the opinions in that post. Search your feelings, you know it to be true.

>>50362291
Why would he waste a spell to bounce batterskull instead of just failing to find a land?

>>50362566
>lands are part of the best designed aspect of magic
I don't want the color pie to be
>muh hunter deck can't splash G to out enchantments

The whole point of the color pie is that colors have weaknesses and you have to use more than one color to answer everything.

White can deal with anything but generally at the expense of the answer can be answered. Also has no card advantage.

Blue can't kill anything and the only answer in color to resolved things are bouncing or tapping them. Or turning them into the moon.

Black can really only kill living things.

Red can't answer enchantments and it's creature kill is damage based.

Green is tied to mana/creatures and won't kill creatures without fighting them with creatures

I saw somewhere that Gideon was imprisoned in the moon and then awakened, which was neat. He wasn't a mountain, though.

>>50362602
I was the one who used path. I used it because I had nothing on the table at the time and I was at 6 life and he was at 28.

I path'd Germ to take the clock off of me for at least a turn hoping to get tron online and start doing things. He bounced batterskull in response, then his germ dies to state based action and path doesn't resolve.

Worth selling bloodghasts before the dredge ban?

>>50362688
What is the point of bouncing his own batterskull to kill his own germ that you are trying to kill?

>>50362581
I think most duals are badly designed. Their drawback is minimal and let you play decks which effectively negate the drawbacks of the individual colors. Can't have enchantment removal in red but your manabase lets you effortless be in black and green too. This is also arguably one of the reasons white is so weak, it's the color that can deal with anything but lacks strong threats and card draw. When you can just deal with anything with a 3 color deck white becomes obsolete.
There's no deck building choice present in lands, most of the time you pick your mana base because it's the best in the colors you want, not because the lands have drawbacks and strengths that accentuate what your deck wants to do.

>>50362705
I don't know. That's why I mentioned it. It didn't make sense. Was he afraid of some split second artifact destruction? I don't know. That's not very common and he could have waited until EOT if he didn't want to leave 3 mana open later. I had other green mana available and could have used an artifact destruction spell, as uncommon as they are main deck. I think it was a bad play bouncing it then. He never played it for the rest of the game because I finally got tron online and started casting Karns, World Breakers and Ugin.

>>50362660
no matter what type gideon has, he'll eventually turn back into a creature

>>50362723
Why? He was enchanted as a planeswalker, then awakened. He's now an elemental creature land that taps for colorless. He wasn't animated by his own effect, something like Ruinous Path was used.

>>50362775
It's just a joke. Gideon's theme is turning into a creature. Even the creature gideon turns into a planeswalker that turns into a creature.

>>50362793
o
I can't ever tell what's b8, what's a joke and what's srs

>>50361500
Azusa Amulet isnt that bad, I think Sigarda was brought from sb against Lili.

>>50362566
If you think Hearthstone is better than MTG, why are you here?

Part of the draw to magic is the lands. You don't auto get mana every turn maxing out at some amount, which allows for decks like tron, manaless dredge and mixing/matching what you want, which can't happen in hearthstone. There are generic cards, but I can't just put paladin cards in my druid deck because my druid deck needs an answer to X.

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Is there any devotion deck that's decent in modern that isn't Master of Waves? Pic related is my favorite God.

>tfw want o play modern
>have competitive deck
>no one around that plays on saturdays/sundays
>can't go to fnms due to working and it being 50km away from me

How do I build a mtg group senpaitachi

>>50362985
You could try it in mono-g stompy. Run it and let us know how it goes

>>50360629
>Every time someone says this, it pisses me off. No, Tempered Steel is not a good deck.

But it is a good, budget deck.

>>50362867
I don't think hearthstone is better than MTG, don't strawman me. I know it is more popular than MTG. And I think it does certain things better than MTG, like eliminating the possibility of mana screw.

>>50363130
>like eliminating the possibility of mana screw.
At the price of RNG on literally every card

>>50363199
That's two unrelated design principles. But if you think there are related, I'd rather have the rng of the game be attached to cards and not the actual ability to play the game.

>>50363043
4 Experiment One
4 Dryad Militant
4 Strangleroot Geist
4 Avatar of the Resolute
2 Kalonian Tusker
4 Leatherback Baloth
4 Aspect of Hydra

2 Nylea, God of the Hunt
4 Rancor
4 Blossoming Defense/Vines of Vastwood
2 Bow of Nylea
3 Dismember

3 Treetop Village
18 Forest

SB
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
2 Prey Upon
2 Nature's Claim
2 Unravel the Aether/Deglamer
2 Feed the Clan
2 Pithing Needle
2 Relic of Progenitus


62 cards. Cut Bow?
Kitchen Finks and Terrain Elemental nay?
Thoughts on Main Deck Ooze?
Vines of Vastwood v Blossoming Defense?

>>50363242
>>50363199
RNG on every card is because it's an online only game

the design of other cards is tied to lands as well as deck construction. MTG can have decks like Legacy Lands and Tron. That would be impossible in hearthstone.

The downside to lands is that sometimes you don't draw them or draw too many.

The downside to hearthstone's mana is that you can't really do cool things with it and there aren't different colors, which is worse IMO.

>>50363429
Of course, the perfect compromise would be a mana deck, like force of will, which I would actually play if it wasn't for the shameful art.

>>50363469
I don't know anything about Force of Will. Can each card be used as mana?

The WoW card game or something allowed you to play any card face down as a mana source.

Yugioh and Vanguard don't have any mana systems, but they're broken.

Pokemon suffers the same problems as MTG but you have to attach energy to pokemon, energy doesn't do anything by itself.

>>50363469
>>50363518

Versus had an interesting system where any card in your hand could be put down as a "resource"/land, but Plot Twists and Locations could actually be played from the resource bar (provided you had enough resources out to actually pay their collective costs).

Not to mention Blood Moon can't make people cry in Hearthstone

>>50355106
>>What's your favorite card in modern?
Eye of Ugin
I know it's banned but still
>>How do you feel about proxy cards? Have you ever used them in sanctioned events?
I don't know
Never
>>Is there a deck you think is almost tier worthy, but just never took off?
Any non-tiered deck winning FNM
>>How did you get into modern?
Read about Tron, loved it, play it
>>How spiky (competitive) are you out of 10?
4

>>50356004
>http://articles.mtgcardmarket.com/my-modern/
the further I read down the less I agree with him

>JtmS and BBE are easy unbans
>SFM too if Bskull is banned (not even that necessary imo)
>I can see his Eye of Ugin argument
>I'd prefer to see dredge nerfed than killed (which amalgam ban would do)
powergap

>banning phyrexian mana entirely is hyperbolic
>banning the last fast mana would do nothing but kill balanced decks for no reason
>le bloodmoonmanmeme

in mono G stompy 2 Nylea has been fine. She's just a 6/6 for 4 most of the time and can evolve experiment one an extra time. Giving everything trample is nice and the pumping came up on one game for lethal. I think I would have won on the next turn regardless.

I wish the deck didn't lose to literally any sweeper in the format.

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>What's your favorite card in modern?
Tiago because I was stubborn enough to play modern control even through Eldrazi winter
>How do you feel about proxy cards? Have you ever used them in sanctioned events?
I don't care as long as people don't sell them pretending they're real. I don't have any fakes myself though
>Is there a deck you think is almost tier worthy, but just never took off?
Jeskai Nahiri is secretly still tier 1
>How did you get into modern?
I shifted from casual to constructed, realized standard was shit within two months, then started brewing my own bad version of bluetron
>How spiky (competitive) are you out of 10?
as spikey as I can possibly get whilst still playing the decks I like

>>50364573
what if red Snapcaster Mage?
how much better do jeskai/grixis control get?
red Snapcaster Mage means with only 3 basic islands you can go red Snap into Cryptic under Blood Moon.

>>50364622
If snap was red there would be very little reason left to play blue in modern, you'd be better off playing mardu or jund with it

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>>50364622
Also there is a much simpler, much cuter way to deal with blood moon in jeskai and it requires only one basic

>>50364692
But red Snapcaster allows you to cast things under blood moon if you have the basics for them. It doesn't deal with blood moon.

>>50364730
Wait so you want to play blood moon in control?

I guess skred with snap would be real neat but blue moon also kinda did that

I just finished catching up with the SCG Milwaukee open coverage, I know I'm late but what the fuck was going in in that top 8 people literally giving away wins

>>50362252
I recently made a U-Tron deck and I'm having a blast. I run into 8-rack and Merfolk a lot, do you have any experience with those decks?

>>50361415
Can't I run both anyways? Running 4 EE and 2-4 chord doesn't seem terrible to me

>>50363615

Duel masters, for what it was, did this also

>>50356004
>Ban: Phyrexian Mana
Things That Will Never Ever Happen for 200 Alex.

>Ban: Remaining Fast Mana – Mox Opal and Simian Spirit Guide
I'm okay with this. Modern is already blazing fast anyway, so it's not like it will make games painfully slow or drawn out.

>Ban: Blood Moon, Choke, and Boil
Choke and Boil, I can understand. They hose U specifically and no one else. But Blood Moon!? It affects all colors (including R) by removing their ability to use nonbasic lands.

>>50365604
The theme between all 3 of those isn't that they're too strong for modern, but because he personally dislikes them. It's an awful article because 'things I dislike should be banned' is an awful way to balance a format.

>>50360707
>>50361053
I understand that. I was more so wondering about the actual white splash. For path and such

>>50362710
>There's no deck building choice in crafting a mana base
I know you're terrible at this game but at least pretend

>>50365889
by and large there isn't a significant choice. Cavern of Souls is an example of a land which requires real deck building constraint and pushes decks that use it to change to get the full benefit from it. Black Cleave Cliffs versus Bloodstained Mire isn't the same.

>>50356004
>>50365604


I'm surprised this faggot didn't say COPs should be banned as well. Has there even been a viable modern deck in the past 3 years that's run choke or boil? Seems like he's a salty bitch that lost to some kitchen table deck and now he wants everything that's "unfair" banned.

Sure color hosers are gay as fuck if they run unchecked, but the meta would just shift to combat them. This looks an awful lot like ChannelFireball saying that 8th should be banned from Modern. Is there some conspiracy to get every major website crying for wizards to do that?

>>50361916
>play temple of malice, instantly realize i should crack my fetch before scrying so i put the temple back in hand and pop fetch
>you have been kicked

did i deserve it?

>>50365948
Scry uses the stack so you can respond, so you could have cracked in response

>>50365938
nothing is strong enough right now to have a real ban list discussion, so you've got to add criteria like 'this card isn't fun' or 'this doesn't reflect modern design principles'
>>50365948
Why didn't you just crack in response to the trigger?

>>50365938
>>50365937
>What is balancing mana producing lands to mana requirements?
>What is figuring out how many colorless lands you can play in your deck?
>What is figuring out how many taplands you can afford to have?
>Hurr durr cavern of souls is a deckbuilding constraint
You really are shit

>>50365978

Not him, but your argument is fucking stupid because all of this shit is mathematically solved and most people just go to that one mana article and reference the numbers. Nobody "figures out" what they can afford to run and haven't for a very very long time.

>>50366016
Then why bother even playing Magic at all if you're so concerned about aspects of the game being "solved?" And it's not like Blood Moon suddenly alleviates these perceived issues.

>>50363400
cut nylea, modern is full or removal and alot of your stuff has trample anyway

vines is better

as for ooze look at your meta, is delve really strong there? what about abzan company? if no to either keep it sideboard

>>50366038
Really, what modern needs is a reprint of Price of Progress. Sure, it might instantly put burn at tier 0, but that's okay. Fuck every deck requiring a $500 manabase.

>>50365604
I can see the reasoning behind all three even if I don't really agree with them. Saying "ban ALL phyrexian mana" is pretty retarded but Mutagenic Growth and ESPECIALLY Gitaxian Probe are actually so powerful for how small the effects seem, and they're also almost always the cards that enable the Godhand turn3 kills in pump-based aggro/combo decks

>>50366048
Why is it that every single person who hates good mana bases is just a salty poorfag?

>>50365978
>>What is balancing mana producing lands to mana requirements?
>>What is figuring out how many colorless lands you can play in your deck?
>>What is figuring out how many taplands you can afford to have?
these are arguably all the same thing, figure out how you can get the colors you need on each of your turns. But there is a right and wrong answer to these questions. And that means you're not making meaningful decisions when building your deck. There aren't jund decks running more tap lands to have better access to man lands. If at the end of the day there's no variety to lands why do they exist? Purely for mana screw and mana flood?
>>50366038
Magic isn't solved though. Not everyone goes to game day with the exact same deck, and when it even approaches a meta like that something is very wrong.

>>50363400
didnt see you were doing devotion, look at cards like shrine to nykthos, garruk wildspeaker, eternal witness and courser of kruphix

>>50366070
>There aren't jund decks running more tap lands to have better access to man lands.
This is patently false, not all jund decks run raging ravine exclusively even

>>50365963
>>50365972
i didn't really have time to think about it, it was a kneejerk thing.
anyways i was going to breach gris the next turn regardless of scry but i guess i'll remember this in the future

>>50364692
>cuter
She's hideous in that pic. Looks old and masculine

>>50366016
>Not him, but your argument is fucking stupid because all of this shit is mathematically solved and most people just go to that one mana article and reference the numbers.
Link?

>>50366054
φ is powerful, no doubt, but Wizards is never going to blanket ban an entire mechanic (exceptions for dexterity and ante). Discussing it's ban worthiness is a waste of oxygen because it is simply never going to happen.

>>50366063
>Why is it that every single person who hates good mana bases is just a salty poorfag?
If your manabase was good, you wouldn't be crying about Blood Moon or Price of Progress.

>>50366038

>What is figuring out what your deck can/should run in its mana base

>me: Mana base customization doesn't really exist, it's been long objectively calculated for likelihood of drawing what you need
>Why even bother playing then?

Are you literally mentally retarded? What lands you use just enables you to play the game with the cards in your hand. People reference that article because they want to play magic. Doing your own special snowflake land configuration is wasting your time when it's easy to know that hey, I need X mana sources to play Y card on turn Z. Once you have that sorted out, you can play your choice colorless lands and that's the best you need to do. Having something menial and tedious solved for you just makes the game more worth playing. I didn't even **imply** that it being solved was a bad thing. I just said your argument was shitty.

>>50366117

>Link?

http://www.channelfireball.com/articles/frank-analysis-how-many-colored-mana-sources-do-you-need-to-consistently-cast-your-spells/

>>50366083
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/514588#online
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/514589#online
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/514238#online
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/511566#online
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/511583#online
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/511573#online
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/510590#online
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/510580#online
These are the 8 most recent jund decks that top 8'd at SCG events and the world cup. They all run 3 raging raving. The only lands not ubiquitous to all decks are 1 ghost quarter and 1 blooming marsh in the 7th link.
Comparatively grim lavamancer, grim flayer, huntmaster of the fells, kalitas, tireless tracker, Tasigur, the Golden Fang, new lilliana and new chandra are some variations in the main deck non lands.
All of these players made meaningful decisions about the non-lands they would play in their decks. A single player brought any variation to the mana base.

>>50366117
Wizards arguably kept banning storm enablers long after it was no longer tier 1 in modern.

Can I just add wall of roots and Eldritch Evolution onto a Leige Rhino deck and have that work? Or is that slowing down too much

>>50365326
I don't know much about the archetype except that Jeff Hoogland likes it and is now playing a 4 color build.

>>50355713
jokes on you i play death & taxes

>>50356004
i'm k with this

>>50365948
It's okay, I've been kicked for not tapping my mana for lightning bolt when I haven't cast it but just given it flashback.

I told the guy I'm not casting bolt right now and he kicked me.

>>50363130
>implying hearthshit is more popular than the number 1 tcg in the world.

>>50366040
Vines seems better most of the time, agreed.

Would you consider actually playing some amount of GB duals so some of the time I don't have to pay life for Dismember?

Considerations
>Overgrown Tomb
>Blooming Marsh
>Woodland Cemetery
>Hissing Quagmire
>Llanowar Wastes

The whole point of playing G stompy was to play Nylea in modern because I like the card. It's bad but it's not like I'm actually taking it to tournaments. Nylea is indestructible, tho. Everything else isn't, which turns her off.

>>50367027
it is most certainly more popular than MTG

>>50367139
Show the facts to support your statment. Because it seems to pale in comparison.

>>50367232
Because you're interested in mtg. You're not going to notice anything about magic if you're not into it.

>>50355713
jokes on you I play mono red burn :^)

>>50367237
Same arguement could work for hearthstone. Try again, prove it's more popular.

>>50361454
It's common for customer to not know what they want, but nobody knows what the fuck WotC wants. Lately their decisions have been weird mess.

>>50355106
>What's your favorite card in modern?
Either Ugin the Spirit Dragon or Emrakul, the Aeons Torn.
>How do you feel about proxy cards? Have you ever used them in sanctioned events?
I'm planning on getting into modern via a local regular proxy tournament.
>Is there a deck you think is almost tier worthy, but just never took off?
I've always wanted Double Sphinx to be a deck (Sphinx's Revelation + Sphinx's Tutalege)
>How did you get into modern?
Eldrazi via Tron.
>How spiky (competitive) are you out of 10?
7/10. I don't want to win every game, but I won't play a deck I know is bad.

>>50355106
>What's your favorite card in modern?
Inkmoth Nexus

>How do you feel about proxy cards? Have you ever used them in sanctioned events?
Gay. No.

>Is there a deck you think is almost tier worthy, but just never took off?
I think UW Tron could use some love.

>How did you get into modern?
I moved to an area without legacy right before modern became a format, so the timing was great.

>How spiky (competitive) are you out of 10?
7.5, I guess. I scoff at casuals, but I haven't put in the time to crack the pro tour.

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>>50367327
>>50367232
there is obviously no concrete evidence to be found but everything points to hearthstone being more popular. go look at search trends, video views, app downloads, general merchandise, and discussion of the games online and you will see that hearthstone is far more popular owing to its vastly higher accessibility. I know this may be upsetting to you but just remember that popularity almost never translates into quality.

https://www.google.com/trends/explore?q=hearthstone,magic%20the%20gathering

>>50367444
hearthstone is an online only game, it's pretty bias to compare online trends only

>>50367456
the bias is not very strong when you consider google trends, literally everyone playing mtg is going to be googling something about the game sometime through the week. and with mtg being both an online and a paper game the amount of views in videos and such should not be mere fractions of hearthstone's if it were indeed more popular.

Im not trying to argue that its the better game by any metric. I dont even play hearthstone anymore. I just believe that its very silly to argue that the game isnt more popular when all evidence points to the contrary

>>50367522
>literally everyone playing mtg is going to be googling something about the game sometime through the week
this is just factually untrue. Not even everyone playing hearthstone is going to be googling throughout the week.
I'm not even the original guy you were arguing with, I firmly believe hearthstone is more popular by virtue of being free, but all the evidence you've given is garbage.

>>50367444
>>50367522
>Says he has no concrete evidence
>Says the evidence points to the contrary
Who's being contrary now?

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>>50367556
>Not even everyone playing hearthstone is going to be googling throughout the week
you cant say the googling trends will be vastly different for either game no matter how you spin it. Search trends were only one thing I mentioned, just go to youtube and look up the most viewed regular content channels you can find for MTG, now do the same for hearthstone. You can wave these numbers away as an online bias or circumstantial evidence but the facts still remain that more evidence points to hearthstone being more popular.

>>50367578
anecdotal evidence is not concrete evidence but its still evidence. Concrete evidence on this will likely never exist as there is no way to properly track player numbers in offline games but you cant look at the numbers of peripheral means to consume content relating to the game and just brush all of them off. That would just be silly.

>>50367635
>you cant say the googling trends will be vastly different for either game no matter how you spin it
I most certainly can. Someone with no access to the internet can play mtg, which isn't true of hearthstone. Every single hearthstone player has access to the internet when they play, the vast majority of MTG players are not using a computer at all when they play. There's absolutely zero evidence that search trends, or youtube views correlate with popularity of card games.

>>50367668
somebody without access to the internet is very likely not going to play a pay to play game like MTG, even casually the game costs money to play and people are going to be putting their money on getting internet before they start buying $4 boosters. Even if there are a few thousand people in this incredibly unlikely scenario you expect that to make up the crushing ~5-600% lead that hearthstone has in video views? you are just grasping at straws at this point

Thread successfully derailed /thread

Is Scapeshift a bad match for tron?

Do I mulligan any 7 card hand that doesn't most likely have t3 tron?

>>50367719
youtube views and card game popularity are not related in the slightest. Hearthstone is played on a computer and it's effortless to record game play, this isn't true of mtg.
You haven't provided a single argument that any of metrics are meaningful. There are more MTG cards printed in the world, mtg must be more popular. There are more stores that sell mtg, it must be more popular. There are more SCG events for MTG than hearthstone, it must be more popular. I don't think there's a significant difference in these metrics just because hearthstone is online only, and I don't think I should have to prove my arguments have any merit.

>>50362566

Lands are a weak part of MTG design but Hearthstone's mana system is god awful and if you think it's anywhere good then you really need to have played more CCG's in your life.

The CCG with the best resource system i've ever seen was the old VS system for Marvel and later DC stuff. Old Battletech CCG was alright too which basically played off the same rules as MTG but slightly modified except mechs could be constructed(summoned) over time rather than being allowed to be assembled only in the turn you play it. e.g a "cmc 4" mech could be assembled over two turns if you had two "lands" and you tapped them twice each turn to build towards the mech.

>>50365600
>was
still is m8

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>>50367768
mtgo was 30-40% of the companies revenues back in 2007 according to forbes as quoted from Worth Wollpert

http://www.forbes.com/sites/cameronkeng/2013/11/19/magic-the-gathering-losing-11-1-market-value-overnight-for-poor-customer-service/#413fe18e3d22

even if you assume that video content is only produced for the online portion (it isnt) and subsequently triple the viewer numbers you are still about 300% short of hearthstone numbers.

Here, I have shown my anecdotal numbers, why dont you provide some for yourself other than closing your eyes and shutting out the truth.

>>50367522

Those trends do not make sense because you can google stuff about MTG without actually typing in "Magic the gathering." If I was to google "93/94 magic" it's not going to show trends for "magic the gathering" search term. Also people can google for magi related stuff with "MTG" which is a completely different category than what you listed and combing both the search terms for "MTG" and "Magic the gathering" is much more than hearthstone itself.

>>50367861
which is why I included things such as video views to back this up, no matter how much you shake away any perceived bias its not going to make up the fact that hearthstone youtube videos get 6-7 times the views that mtg ones do. You would be playing dumb if you think you can just ignore this

>>50367841
because you're the one making the claim that one is more popular than the other. Poking holes in your argument is enough, I don't need to prove the opposite.
You still haven't given any evidence that youtube numbers correlate with popularity of card games. Without that, your numbers are literally meaningless.

>>50367890
>your the one making the claim
this is my first post in the thread today
>>50367139
which is a reply to someone else claiming that it wasnt more popular

>but I dont need to argue
thats why you lost this one, because you dont feel the need to back up your own words while just taking hits over and over. You dont have any evidence to provide in defense. There is no need to be upset. you are anonymous after all

>>50362985
Purph is sometimes used, but rarely turns into a creature

>>50367942
The arguments given in this thread that hearthstone is more popular than mtg are shit. They have no merit, and they prove nothing. There are no arguments being made that mtg is more popular than hearthstone for me to call shit and critique, just that one short post making the claim.
If you want to believe that hearthstone is more popular than mtg that's fine. I also believe that. If you think anything written in this thread proves that belief, you're an idiot.

>>50363242
Some rng is needed, otherwise you just goldfish

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>>50367991
more evidence has been posted pointing towards hearthstone. Sorry that you cant seem to believe that a free to play game that has both an extremely lower barrier of entry in regards to skill, money, and time investment is somehow more popular.

You really need to get better at the whole internet arguing thing, you are just embarrassing yourself

>>50368047
Then we are at an impasse. You think online trends dictate popularity of card games, I don't. I want you to prove it, you won't. There's nothing more to discuss.

>>50368035
RNG in your draw make you play out games differently, and lead to thinking about how you play. With RNG only on the cards there's an optimum play sequence every time, but the result turns out random. I can't think of a card game that doesn't have randomness in what you draw though, hearthstone just has both.

>>50368089
I said multiple times that I dont have concrete evidence, concrete evidence does not exist. Numbers and trends such as these are merely supporting evidence which I have provided two such types (video views and search trends) which is more than I have seen in favor of MTG. You can ignore these as they challenge your delicate world view but you obviously cannot see the forest for the trees

>>50368151
Evidence isn't going to work with that guy.

>>50367885

Video views don't make any difference because once again hearthstone is an online only game that is a free to play game which is always going to have more video views. The bulk of MTG's viewership actually comes down to reading a significant amount of written articles than video content and for live feeds they only show up viewership when SCG tournaments are held and when WotC streams and holds tournaments. Because nobody really cares what xXxAverageMTGguyxXx does as opposed to hearthstone which is full of people like this. If you were to bring the argument of numbers to determine popularity then you should also consider the fact that there are more MTG tournaments held annually and with larger presence than any number of hearthstone tournaments are held annually and not just factor in video views and search terms alone. You can't just cherry pick data like that.

>>50367103
i mean 4 mana 6/6 is good but her ability is pretty much useless

>>50368047

You realise there are multiple search terms for Magic the gathering related stuff that are like MTG or Duels of the planeswalkers or Grand Prix Kuala Lumpur or Starcity games or tcgplayer or Wizards of the Coast that will not share the same search trends right? Hearthstone just has one, "Hearthstone"

what do you guys think is better naya bushwacker or naya big zoo?

>>50368584

Bushwacker. WACKITY SCHMACKITY DOO

>>50368530
>Hearthstone isn't more popular because it was always going to be more popular

This is you.

Anyone know a good place to get alters from? Want to get some full arts for my Ad Nauseam deck
I'd get some for infect but I'm expecting the hammer any day now

>>50368571
Blizzard, yogg saron, worlds, etc

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>>50355106
>>What's your favorite card in modern?
Don't really play favorites with this stuff. The cards are the means to an end.
>>How do you feel about proxy cards? Have you ever used them in sanctioned events?
I own all 'real' cards. I don't really care if you use proxies as long as the cash you paid for the event entry was real.
>>Is there a deck you think is almost tier worthy, but just never took off?
Nope. Tier is tier because they get played, and win, a lot.
>>How did you get into modern?
Splinter Twin was my first deck.
>>How spiky (competitive) are you out of 10?
10. I came here to beat everyone else at cards and take all the money.

>>50368649

No i'm saying trying to use video views and only video views as the only evidence to express the comparison between the popularity between two factors is a poor argument. You cannot just cherry pick one side of the data and ignore a multitude of other factors that are also related, that's how people misrepresent and eschew statistics for dumb shit like vaccines causing autism and global warming not being real. Saying that hearthstone is more popular because of video views and only video views is a poor argument in itself.

>>50368663

Those search terms overlap with a weather phenomenon and other warcraft related subjects(specifically WoW). They do not always correlate directly to hearthstone itself.

>>50368701

Are you by chance a jund or tron player?

>>50368782
right now i'm on infect and dredge.

>>50368782
He says he plays to win. How in the world did you infer jund or tron from that statement?

>>50368047

What you need to realise is that Hearthstone is digital only and is thus going to have more higher search trends because it's online (duh) presence is all it is at. The bulk majority of MTG play is actually done in paper and not online because MTG's online presence is god awful. Yes there are some online events and magic dailies but they're not the majority of the big events played because all the bigger events played are in paper presence and not all of them will have video coverage. MTG is notorious for having a very abysmal digital online presence.

If you really wanted some numbers I can tell you that MTG's world championship had higher number of entrants than Blizzard's Hearthstone entrants of 2015 and 2014 respectively. Blizzard choose 16 participants to enter their worlds tournament, WotC has entrants of top 4 players from 70 countries each respectively which is basically 1 country = 4 players. That basically constitutes to 280 players for their Worlds tournament versus Blizzard's 16. So what can we confer from this? We can confer that MTG has worse online trends due to lack of proper digital support for the game as opposed to Hearthstone but we can also confer that MTG's physical presence is still very strong given their tournament numbers.

So by this example it's pretty safe to say that your argument and data analysis is inconclusive as to which game is more popular because there were other trends you did not factor.

>>50355106

>What's your favorite card in modern?
Angel's Grace. Even if you're not playing Ad Nauseam it should show up in a sideboard. Every white deck should sideboard it. But other than that then it's Surgical Extraction.
>How do you feel about proxy cards? Have you ever used them in sanctioned events?
I think they're fine, lets more people play MTG. As for sanctioned events I used some for a 100% proxy allowed Legacy event.
>How did you get into modern?
I wanted to play a non-rotating format where my cards would see a long time play without investing too much money into it.
>How spiky (competitive) are you out of 10?
I'd say an 8. I'm competitive but i'll dick around at FNM and don't mind if people want to go back to play a different land or something.

>>50362291
>about to cast ugin and start bolting him and the phone rings disconnecting me from the internet

what is this 1998?

>>50369263
I'm pretty sure Ugin would have obliterated magic in 1998 lad

>>50369281
Wut?

No standard thread to be found, so I'm asking here.

How do I answer Stasis Snare playing as RB?

>>50369473
simple really
fuck off

>>50369473
https://lmgtfy.com/?q=MTG+standard+enchantment+removal

>>50369473
>How do I answer Stasis Snare playing as RB?
ignore it and keep on beating face.

>>50369473

You don't. You keep punching them in the face.

>>50369473

play a better format than mythic midrange

Which MTG color is your favorite, and why? Note I say favorite, not best. What do you prefer to play?

http://www.strawpoll.me/11717375

>>50369110
You forgot the only real statistic;

Hot girls dont play mtg on twitch

>>50368707
You haven't presented any other evidence to the contrary. Just poor, irrelevant excuses for why magic is lagging behind.

>>50370886
well, that depends on your definition of "hot". some of them could always light themselves on fire while they play.

>>50370424
Black, because suicide playstyles are fun. The flavor really appeals to me too, particularly the non edge Lord stuff.

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>>50370900
Not sure if really bad attempt at humor or just acoustic

>>50358124
Affinity is cheap
4 mox 120
4 ravager 160
4 inkmoth 100

Everything else is chump change, get a job scrub

What do I play when infect gets banned? Affinity? Bant Eldrazi?
Have 4 footys 4 wooded 1 misty for lands btw
Have AN but I play that depending on the meta, looking at robots though

>>50371453
Robots is Meh. It's always good but there's always hate for it. And none of its cards cross over except to lantern control

>>50371453
Infect isn't oppressive, it's just fast around uninteractive decks

>>50371581
I get that, it's more just my distrust in Wizards and their banning policy

>>50370887

Because there's nothing to prove when you only eschew one side of a statistical analysis. But ok here's me cherry picking an argument like you would to the contrary for arguing popularity.

http://mtgsalvation.gamepedia.com/World_Magic_Cup

>The World Magic Cup (WMC) is a yearly three-day tournament, usually held in the fall or early winter. It is a National Team competition, featuring more than 70 countries
>The WMC is an invitation-only tournament consisting of National teams with four members each

http://hearthstone.gamepedia.com/2015_Hearthstone_World_Championship

>The 2015 Championship is a tournament between 16 players, 4 from each region: Americas (North America and Latin America), Europe, China and Asia-Pacific (Korea, Taiwan, Southeast Asia, Australia, New Zealand, and Japan).
>These 16 competitors will be selected through Regional Qualifiers and Regional Championships, before competing in the World Championship itself.

Does that satisfy your evidence to the contrary of "numbers for popularity" argument now?

>>50361754
Move dredge card from GY to hand, roght click>move X to GY

>>50363010
Play MTGO

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Anyone here familiar with this deck or how to side board vs dredge and infect?

Really wanting to bring this deck to locals but don't want to scrub out.

Rate, hate and appreciate. Gimme some tech lads

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/11-11-16-esper-tokens/

>>50374278
Needs Spectral Processions or something of the sort.

Any one here have any experience with Soul Sisters?

I used to play affinity in Modern before I sold the deck to buy into standard. Haven't played much modern since then but Soul Sisters seems like a lot of fun. Is it at all viable?

>>50374287
For what and why?
Just curious. Souls seems to do enough work IMO

>>50372578
Or puke in disgust when someone mentions MTGO.

>>50369263
I live in Spain, which is a pretty ass backwards country. I'm sorry that Spain sucks and is stuck in the 90s.

My landlord wanted to install the internet on a plan that's like 6am-6pm only.

>>50369473
>>50369473
Engineered Explosives and add a third color. If you add blue, you get counterspells like negate and countersquall. If you add white or green, those colors can just answer enchantments.
you're not going to get srs answers in modern general about standard. You're better off searching reddit

I was talking about my bullshit sultai brew a few threads ago. Someone said use Ashiok. Why?

She steals creatures, which means I want to play her against a creature deck, but she can't protect herself. I guess that deck is full of creatures but does she just suck because she doesn't do anything? She doesn't do anything, why would I put her in a deck?

Ashiok definitely is an aetherborne[/spoiler[

>>50369018
He's probably either:

1. Playing in a meta stuck in 2014/2015.
2. Playing in a really weak meta where one guy plays Jund, another guy plays Tron, and everyone else plays dogshit.

>>50370424
Don't care. Whatever wins.

>>50371847
No, because the structure of the tournaments are completely in control of the company organizing them.

Online popularity is not. Your "evidence" is shit.

Just a friendly reminder to you bros to swap your sleeves and to clean you playmats, don't want to ended up with a pockmarked card like I did.

>>50374926
>don't want to ended up with a pockmarked card like I did.
What? Pics? Story?

>>50374500
Move to a country with a higher standard of living. Like Mexico.

>>50374954
I won't bother with pictures, it's not like mtg gore or anything. What's happened is some grit got into the outer sleeve and has pressed against the inner sleeve, dinging both the sleeve and card. My fault, the sleeves are filthy, thank god it's only a darkslick shores and not a Snapcaster, lesson learned I guess, just figured I'd pass some knowledge along.

>>50374954
I like being in schengen. Mexico is a nice place to holiday but it's not for me.

>>50375003
If you play with deck a bunch then you should resleeve like once a year. Yes inner sleeves too. Just re-use the old sleeves for a casual deck or something

>>50375201
>once a year
Lol what, good luck getting even KMCs to stay in unmarked shape for a month if you play "a bunch".

>>50374709

Sure and I used the two official companies who would organise them. But if we delve into third party companies there's actually more tournaments for MTG than Hearthstone so no my evidence is not shit. Your evidence in saying that numbers alone are evidence as to which game is more popular is a cherry picking argument of statistical misrepresentation. See if I cherry pick the argument to support my side you get all uppity and mad about it despite the fact that I am clearly omitting presence of online tournaments for both games. Your argument that a game is more popular because of online trend searches and videos and only those factors is a widely misrepresented analysis of the statistics and argument presented.

>>50375242
This is my favourite anon. Wish you could fight my battles for me. I'm so shit at wording my opinion/ideas etc.

>>50375242
Search results directly correlate with interest in the game. This is a pretty inescapable statistical fact, and the fact that you're writing walls of text trying to escape it is hilarious.

Of course MTG has more tournies, it is an older, more established community. Not the larger, more rapidly growing community.

>>50375770

Search results only correlate with the number of searches for the subject in question especially a subject in question that has only an online presence. I see this all the time where you and quite a lot of people for that matter misrepresent statistics to represent an argument without considering other factors, correlation is not causation anon. That's not your fault, many people do this all the time without realising it.

Your argument is this and this alone "There are more search terms for Hearthstone than MTG, therefore Hearthstone must be the more popular game on this fact alone and this cannot be disputed." That's a false dichotomy viewpoint considering that you clearly didn't look into the number of factors such as MTG content as just written articles, many people are already aware of most of the core MTG sites and do not need to search for them when they can type the site url directly and access the content thereby bypassing google search trends, but also the fact that a very large number of tournaments are constantly being held without any online coverage at all that will not show up google trend search results. There is absolutely no way you can put forth a credible logical argument based on a single statistical graph only and then try and argue that "Well looks like i've done all the research I need to, no glaring holes or contradictions here!" on your statement.

You argue that because Hearthstone has more search trends and more video content equals to it being the more popular game. Not only is that a highly misrepresented argument but you also completely ignore the factors that everyone has pointed out that MTG has a poor online presence and a very large number of MTG tournaments aren't even streamed or televised in any way. It's not a secret that MTG's online client is god awful while Hearthstone's is excellent, this isn't a factor up for argument but i'm stating that nobody will contest this piece of fact.

>>50375770
Google searches =/= interest levels. Come on guy. Not even the anons youre arguing with. Also more tournies does in fact show a larger audience. For every 1 player that goes there are 10 that don't.

But yeah hearthstone is bigger. Its free and normies love free shit they will drop in a year or two. Reddit=HS, 4chan=MTG

>watch world cup
>oh man Grishoalbrand looks fun I want to make it but I got no money
>watch random SCG modern tournies
>oh man Aura Hexproof looks fun looks fun I want to make it but I got no money
>look at decks on mtgtop8
>oh man Death & Taxes looks fun I want to make it but I got no money

every fucking time.

>host game on cockatrice
>note modern 2/3
>guy is playing sun/moon
>i'm playing tron
>I O-stone his blood moon and two wall of omens so I can play ulamog the next turn
>he plays cataclysmic gearhulk and sacs all but one of his lands

C O C K A T R I C E

>>50375770
>>50375907

To further add, you cherry pick an argument on these trends alone and then when I intentionally do the same by cherry picking an argument based on tournament entrant representation in the same year to show you why something can clearly be misrepresented to prove an argument you try and back down and argue that it's not a "numbers game" and now that it's "Oh that's not fair because MTG has been around longer." And those would be factors because I intentionally used your own methodology to show you how inaccurate such a viewpoint to hold is. Yet you insist that my argument has no merit while yours does when you used the exact same model of argument, that's the very definition of a pot calling the kettle black. You can't base an viewpoint on a "more numbers = more popular" argument to represent point A(google trends) and then disavow point B(world championship player entrants and numbers) when someone uses your exact method. Everyone in this thread has stated that there's a flaw in your argument and you're all "BUT GOOGLE SEARCH TRENDS" which has absolutely zero factors in measuring and determining the more popular between the two.

Right now there is absolutely no accurate way to measure which game is popular because vital pieces of statistical information is missing in record keeping for both online player entrant tournaments and any paper or "in real life"(I've not only seen "physical" Hearthstone tournaments but i've played in some.) You have absolutely no accurate basis to claim one is more popular than the other.