Warcraft Lore and RPG Discussion

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First for the Best Empires

>>50297996
>Gurubashi snakeshitters ruining the Amani's aesthetic borders

>>50297996
>trolls ruled most of the EK outside of Khaz Modan
>troll ruins only exist in places that trolls still live

>>50297996
So if Night Elves are mutated Dark Trolls, why can't they be Shamans?

Did they automatically lose their connection to the Loa when they evolved?

>>50299402
shamans have to revere the elements and their ancestral spirits. Night elves did not, they were too busy worshiping Azshara and demon cock

>>50299464
Wasn't she the last of their line of rulers, and the demon thing only became a thing under her reign?

Is Elune a Loa? Do the Loa dislike monotheism? Do they dislike Titan blood? Surely their culture didn't just change overnight. There's got to be some ruins that are an in-between stage of Troll and NElf architecture somewhere, right?

>>50299724
Dark Trolls never really had the type of civilization that the Gurubashi, Amani and Drakkari had. Any transitional architecture was probably centered around the Well of Eternity and dismantled to build Zin-Azshari or destroyed during the WotA.

the troll concept of Loa probably slowly transitioned into their worship of Elune and later druidism, but that was mostly supplanted by their dependence on arcane magic during the time of the monarchy

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How would you write a camping set in the plaguelands during vanilla WoW?

I was thinking of stranding them and having them slowly build up a base to hold back the undead. They would have to work to survive and fight off both the scourge and Scarlet Crusade. Figured I would have a Horseman as the main antagonist as they ready to fortify what is left of the Argent Dawn.I can't figure out an appropriate ending though.

Thoughts?

>>50300007
>I can't figure out an appropriate ending though.
anything other than plot armoring him to death with the Light
kill them all, so they may bow to the one true king

>>50300063
Anon, that's the Bad Ending.

Do you want them to go to Super-Hell?

>>50300007
Have them kite him all the way to Ironforge and lure him into the lava.

>>50300007
You could use Baron Rivendare since he was the Horseman in charge of the Undead side of Stratholme.
Don't write an ending just yet. Let the players decide their ending. Are they good players who think strategically and capture and purify one strategic point after the other? Give them a good end.
Are they munchkins who only see everything as a grind for more XP and just try to bash their way through each encounter? Give them >>50300063

>>50300180

I like this idea! I was going to use the Eastern Plaguelands as my basis. So the Argent Dawn is losing the war against the Scourge and the players have to help them turn the tide of battle around.

Meanwhile the Scarlet Crusade is fucking up both sides. I really wanted a big Scarlet Crusade presence as two of our players are playing Forsaken. I like the idea of having them having to kill other undead and people who see them as no difference.

I was also thinking of having a small Druid outpost. They would be trying to find ways to cleanse the land.

Still all just loose ideas in my head.

>>50300089
>Do you want them to go to Super-Hell?
they don't go to Super Hell until their soul is separated from their body
just don't die

>>50275515

Does anyone have a link to this study? I'm interested.

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>Doesn't require it's members to be Undead
>Had advanced technology and magic
>Had a strong government that can look over the empire with ease
>Was open to all races
>Had the support of the citizens of Lordaeron in a revolution
>Was Arthas and Kel'thuzad approved

How were the Scourge bad again? At least when put up with the Alliance Cucks and Dindu Nuffins in the Horde.

>>50300992
>damns its victims to turn into mindless ghouls and then end up in Super-Hell when they're inevitably destroyed, at which point the Void gits torture them 24/7
>edgelords with no sense of aesthetic in architecture, have to steal from Nerubians who steal from Tol'vir
>only exist because Ner'zhul is an idiot and Kil'jaeden is a sadist
>their leaders have been an Orc who spent his whole life on a ruse cruise, a rich kid who got rused by said orc, and a third-degree burn victim
>wrecked the architecture in Silvermoon just because, didn't even knock
>created Sylvanas "deploy the Plague" Windrunner
>couldn't even kill one city of ice trolls without the trolls deciding to be idiots and eat their own gods

Yes, I deliberately exaggerated all of that in the worst possible light, why do you ask?

>>50301095
>>edgelords with no sense of aesthetic in architecture,
the Scourge citadels in Icecrown are unironically the best looking buildings in WoW other than the Horde's post-Wrath architecture

>>50301116
>Horde's post-Wrath architecture
There has never been any horde architecture worth jack shit.

>>50301370

I really liked WoDs caveman steampunk.

>>50300992
>ywn voyage across the stars with you bro KT, exchanging bants as you unleash the plague on unsuspecting Legion Worlds.

>>50301370
I like the Tauren architecture

The wooden stuff anyway, the leather buildings that are intended as permanent fixtures seem sort of silly

>>50300992
>Alliance Cucks and Dindu Nuffins in the Horde.

I would love to see at least one of these threads without this bullshit.

Just one.

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>>50301624
Hope is an illusion. No one is coming to save you. You will never leave this place. There is no way home.

>>50301624
Orcs dindu nuffin, though. Muh Loktar.

Kel'thuzad is best boy.

>>50301370
>not liking THE SPIRES OF ORGRIMMAR

>>50301808
the fact that Kel'thuzad has an apostrophe in his name always seemed weird since he's the only human that does
did Blizzard plan on making him an orc originally or something?

>>50300365
>I was also thinking of having a small Druid outpost. They would be trying to find ways to cleanse the land.
Make it a joint Druid-Shaman outpost, as both organizations would be interested in purifying the land and making it habitable again.

>>50301370
Hey, Forsaken architecture is excellent.

>>50301624

Salty Alliance or Horde fag found.

>Garithos
>Garrosh

They are the same character: A strawman there to force a conflict. Who both get defended by Warcraft style Pol posters.

>>50299724
"Lines" aren't really a thing in a culture where everybody lives forever. Maybe I interpreted it wrong but from what I read of Chronicle Azshara was both their last and their FIRST Queen.

The demon thing only came late in at the end of her reign but pretty much from the start they cut their ties with nature magic entirely, because the Highborne who controlled the society weren't able to keep a monopoly on it the way they could with Arcane, and the Ancients made them uncomfortable because they were basically the only things the Kaldorei Empire couldn't dominate.

>Is Elune a Loa? Do the Loa dislike monotheism? Do they dislike Titan blood? Surely their culture didn't just change overnight. There's got to be some ruins that are an in-between stage of Troll and NElf architecture somewhere, right?

Not sure about architecture, but there is an ancient cloth robe on the Broken Isles in Legion with flavour text that it has religious symbols of both Elune and several Loa.

>>50304763

Garithis is funny because he was such a ridiculous RACIS strawman yet in the end he was right in a lot of things and it conflicts with his offscreen achevements. Getting the alliance remnants together, liberating Dalaran, trying to push on aganist the undead etc.

Garrosh was just a plot tumor growing since BC , liked by no one but somehow steadfastly held in the limelight by blizzard ultimately consuming the better part of two expansion packs.

>>50304812
Garrosh was fine until Cataclysm
if you never read the Shattering, he seems like a tough but fair ruler who's undergone genuine character development while under the tutelage of Saurfang, but in the books and MoP he's a complete psycho that fucks up everything he touches and the disparity between the two makes no god damn sense

>>50304763
Garithos was the most successful Alliance commander in the third war, and he treated the elves like untrustworthy fair-weather allies they had always been.
Garrosh believed Grom was some great hero, developed daddy issues because of it, became an orc supremacist and caused a lot of trouble for everyone involved.

>>50304893
Blame Thrall for giving him ur daddy was great-speech instead of ur daddy was batshit insane berserker who only did one thing right in his whole life-speech.

>>50304904
>destroying the Gorian Empire wasn't right
nice try Glub'thok

>>50304904

This. Grom was a retard. Charging off to fight humans in Kalimdor, drinking demon kool-aid again to kill Cenarius, doing all sorts of reckless shit. Thrall venerated and idolized him as his big bro, and that even got extended to the Warsong clan launching a war of conquest aganist Ashenvale. He turned a blind eye to them dragging the horde into another was it eventually losts.

>>50304893

I really like how Garithos is built up to be a complete asshole to make Kael look good but he still comes off better than Kael, just because of his incessant bitching

>WAAAAAH I WANNA GO AND FIGHT THE SCOURGE
>WHAT? FIGHTING SCOURGE IS A DESPERATE STRUGGLE OF SURVIVAL? WAAAAH I DUN WANNA DO THIS ANYMOREEEE

God, fuck Kael, hated that pussy so much.

>>50304932
Grommash would likely never achieve that if not for Kargath Bladefist and Shattered Hand, which likely have succeeded in killing the Emperor in the main timeline.

>>50305050
>Send Elven forces without any heavy weapons by keeping all the Dwarves with himself
>Saying that accepting aid of the Naga equates with treason only because they are not part of the Alliance
Sure makes Garrithos look like reasonable man. Sure.

>>50305304
>>Saying that accepting aid of the Naga equates with treason
>>only because they are not part of the Alliance
The same Naga who served a demon(-ish) lord, performed an Earth-shattering ritual and killed Kael's men? Yeah right.
>Send Elven forces without any heavy weapons by keeping all the Dwarves with himself
It's not like Garithos took the dwarves on a picnic. He was facing another undead army on the main fornt. Sometimes you need to weaken some positions, or you'll lose everything by spreading your men too much. That's war for you. Kael knew they were not winning, but was still itching for a fight, and he got one.

>>50305448
>who served a demon(-ish) lord
I give you that
>performed an Earth-shattering ritual
Only affected Northrend, with Malfurion learning of it only due to his druidic powers
>killed Kael's men
And he accepted their aid, basically using Naga like mercenaries
You know who else used non-Alliance mercenaries to stop Kael'thas from leaving Azeroth in attempt of wiping the Blood Elves due to imaginary treason, which he accused them off only because they used (the horror!) troops they didn't had from the start?
I'll give you a hint: his rank is High Marshall only by virtue of being highest ranking noble around.

>>50305448
>performed an Earth-shattering ritual
daily reminder that this was only considered wrong because of retarded global warming analogies

if Icecrown Glacier melted it would be completely contained by Crystalsong Forest and the lower foothills of the Storm Peaks, nothing would happen to anyone else

>>50305692
Not to mention that Azeroth could more than deal with a few meters of extra sea level, considering the shit it went through later.
Malfurion and Night Elves barring Wardens once again confirmed or flailing idiots.

>>50305595
>Only affected Northrend
There were noticeable quakes in Dalaran, and a continent-shattering spell would catastrophically affect the entire world.
Are you saying the secret tower defense level is actually part of the story? Cause I think it isn't. And if it were, I don't remember seeing probably demonic creatures among the mercenaries, though I may be wrong. The fact remains that disobeying direct and explicit orders is mutiny in most armies. Kael was a foolish, pampered, whiny prince, completely unsuited for leading men in war.
I don't know who this "High Marshall" is. Garithos was styled "Lord" or "Grand Marshal", both being titles he had before the war IRC.
>>50305692
I believe its point was destroying the whole continent. I may be wrong though.

>>50305827
>I believe its point was destroying the whole continent. I may be wrong though.
the earthquakes were meant to break up Icecrown Glacier so the Frozen Throne (and therefore Ner'zhul's soul and Arthas' power) would be destroyed

>>50305827
>Kael was a foolish, pampered, whiny prince, completely unsuited for leading men in war.

Which still makes Garithos an idiot, because if you haven a good army led by an idiot, you don't tell the idiot to fuck off and die somewhere, to either try to get the idiot out of there or you at least give him good advisors.

And when the idiot actually commits mutiny, you don't fucking sentence the entire army to death.

>>50305827
Yes, Grand Marshal
From Ask CDev 3
>Can we get some information on Garithos? Where he was from and on whose orders was he acting? Was there any significant event in his past that caused his hatred of non-human races?
>Grand Marshal Othmar Garithos was the only son of a baron who ruled over lands in what would later be the Eastern Plaguelands that bordered Quel'Thalas. While his father ruled from the town of Blackwood on the shores of the similarly-named lake, Garithos joined the army as a knight during the Second War, where he saw combat in Quel'Thalas defending the elves' homeland from invading orcs. While he was in Quel'Thalas, however, a small band of orcs broke off from the main invading force and burned his home town to the ground, killing all of its inhabitants in spite of the valorous defense marshaled by its lord. Othmar's family perished doing their duty, defending the homes and lives of their subjects. He blamed the elves for the loss of his town and family, believing that the elves diverted forces away from the Alliance's true goal: the defense of humanity alone. After his father's death, Garithos was awarded his title and continued his service in the armies of Lordaeron. By the time of the Scourging of Lordaeron, he had attained the rank of Grand Marshal and was the highest ranked surviving military officer in the region, promoted not necessarily due to his own abilities, but his father's reputation and title. Cut off from the chain of command, Garithos amassed a small army of volunteers and conscripted civilians, and gave them the mission that he assumed the Alliance should have always had: the preservation of humanity above all else. Despite the ad-hoc nature of his forces, other states recognized him as potentially the last remnant of Lordaeron's government and certainly the strongest warlord in the area. As such, officials from neighboring non-human states such as Ironforge and Quel'Thalas sent him aid, ignorant of his intolerant policies.

>>50305891
>The observatories repaired by the Alliance Remnants discovered that an undead strike force was coming from the west. Garithos returned to the front and left Kael'thas awaiting orders. Then, an emissary sent by Garithos informed Kael'thas that he had to engage the strike force from the west, but also recalled all foot soldiers, cavalry and support teams to the front, leaving Kael with only his blood elven troops.[8] Garithos had hoped that the elves would fall before the Scourge, and no longer be his problem;[13] the missions given to Kael's greatly reduced force were intended to be suicidal, impossible for the elves to complete.[14]
>[13] ^ Blizzard lore posts "... The remaining Elves were placed under the command of a man named Garithos, who was grossly intolerant of other races and drove the Elves into near-suicidal situations in the hopes they would no longer be his problem."
Date: 29 September 2005 WoW Forums Post by Caydiem
>[14] ^ Ultimate Visual Guide, pg. 146

>>50305889
I swear to God these arguments always go the same way. Kael was left to hold an entrenched position and told to destroy the undead. He wanted a fight, and he got one. Dying is a risk when you're at war, especially when you're on the losing side.
The problem is that the elves, while not numerous, were loyal to Kael and to Kael only. Removing him from command wouldn't help. Nonetheless, Garithos handled the situation poorly. You're right that he could have left some advisors and that killing all the elves was too much. He's a dick and a bigot, but a successful commander. There is no need to downplay either of his sides.

>>50305827
>And if it were, I don't remember seeing probably demonic creatures among the mercenaries, though I may be wrong.
http://wow.gamepedia.com/The_Crossing
It is as canon as it can be, given that it was the only mission that shows how Blood Elves got to Outland.
Garithos employed:
Outlaws
>Bandit Lord
Races that are either not allied with Alliance or outright their enemies
>Forest Trolls
>Ogres
>Centaur
>Goblins
>Pandaren
>Red Dragons
Primitive races, beasts of higher intellect, elemental beings
>Arachnathids
>Thunder Lizards
>Revenants
>Elementals
>Sasquatches
>Gargantuan Sea Turtles
>Rock and Siege Golems
By all means, Garithos committed higher treason by employing those races to wipe out entire army of Blood Elves instead of using them against Scourge, than Kael'thas accepting aid of the Naga, which was only excuse used by Garithos to put all Elves to the sword due to his old butthurt.

>>50306020
Except that he intentionally left Elves to die by forces they knew were also coming at Blood Elven positions, with taking all forces possible. You can't argue with facts.>>50305932

>>50306027
The Elves go to Outland in a cutscene if you don't unlock the level.
He was the man in charge of the Alliance, and he gets to decide who to ally with. Kael had been warned not to consort with the Naga.
>>50306048
I acknowledge he was a dick and wanted them dead. The fact remains that not obeying your superiors is mutiny. Kael may have held without the Naga long enough for Garithos to return, or maybe he would have been killed. We can only speculate.

>>50306020
>The problem is that the elves, while not numerous, were loyal to Kael and to Kael only.

Hence
>or you at least give him good advisors

>>50306193
Hence
>You're right that he could have left some advisors and that killing all the elves was too much. He's a dick and a bigot, but a successful commander.
Let's leave it at that. We're already running in circles.

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>>50306161
Conclusion:
Talking about Garithos is a beat up horse and there is no point about repeating the same discussion over and over.

Also, Troll Architecture, Best Architecture.

>>50306161
Except Garithos wasnt his superior. You, like most blizz writers, keeps forgetting that the Alliance is a fucking alliance. Kael was helping humans against a common enemy, he can choose to leave the fucking alliance if he wanted. Sticking around and trying his best to complete these missions was supreme loyalty.

Even by comparing positions of their respective kingdoms Kael outclass Garithos by miles. Kael was prince and basically de facto king of Quel'thalas, why should he obey some literally who nobleman of an inferior race?

Fuck Garithos, if blizz can stop sucking human dick for once Kael might have just said fuck it and went back home with his army and leave then monkeys to become zombie food.

>>50306326
>tfw WoW mountains are so tiny that there'll never be an entirely new troll city zone discovered just beyond the clouds

>>50307039

Because blizzard failed compltely at writing. The mere fact that people are talking about and liking Garithos shows this. He was meant to be Darth Hitler, a completely unlikeable asshole, there to make golden boi Kael look great. And they failed.

Also, it was a military operation. Garithos was a Grand Marshal outranking everyone. Kael was just a bitchy princeling of a fallen kingdom He was just treated as the unreliable allies high/blood elves and the crack addicts they were.

>>50307088
I'm all for shitting on Blizzard Writing any chance we get, but you are pretty off there.
Some people here like Garithos because this is 4chan.
Most people in 2003 and to this day think that Garithos was an asshole retard and got what he deserved.

>>50305229

I've seen it suggested that Mar'gok being born at all is one of the divergence points between the WoD Universe and Main Universe. MU Gorian empire collapsed a full generation earlier, which is why the Ogres were so much more disorganized and primitive in our Draenor when the Horde took over, and why Cho'gall was more or less in charge, and notable for being the first 2-headed ogre of his generation.

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>>50297768
So has anyone here actually played that WoW RPG based in 3.5? From what I've read it seems a decent effort, but still largely shit with classes and races poorly reflected by the mechanics which didn't work so well anyway.

God Tier:
Genn Greymane
Varok Saurfang (is he a racial leader now?)
Emperor Shaohao

High tier:
Lor'themar
Baine Bloodhoof
Council of Three Hammers
Malfurion

Meh tier:
Velen
Mechatorque
Thrall
Vol'jin

Shit tier:
Sylvanas
Varian Wrynn
Gallywix

literally worse fucking character in the entire franchise:
Tyrande

>>50307994
>post-Cata Varian not at least Meh Tier
>Tyrande worse than Gallywix

I don't get the joke.

>>50308031
Tyrande really one of useless leaders.

>>50308031
Varian is insufferably anime. Wolfheart ruined everything.

And Gallywix is a meme joke character. Tyrande is just awful

>>50308072
>>50308083
>Tyrande gots martyr'd to make Varian seem cooler in MoP
>Then things get even worse in Val'sharah as she looks for her husband

I'm okay with Gallywix being above her, but in no way can Sylvanas "Worse Warchief than Hellscream" Windrunner is better than her.

>>50308031

> He hasn't played Legion
> He hasn't suffered the Tyrande-Memefurion love story.

>>50307994
I struggle to see why Lor'themar is so high. he does nothing, as much as I wish this wasn't the case.

>>50308576
Lor'themar deserves a high spot for the sole purpose of telling Sylvanas to fuck off and leave BElf coroses alone.

>>50297768
KT needs more erotic liturature

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What's daily life like for a pure Val'kyr anyway? Is it fun?

Also, is it only Vrykul and maybe humans who can become Val'kyr? What if a Draenei proves worthy in the rites of ascension? Does being an alien preclude them from it?

>>50308743
They get to ride a lot of cocks.

I like the idea of Varian, since at the time he was introduced, it felt like no one was really pointing out the Horde's pre-Garrosh crimes against the Alliance. I just wish the writers were better so that Varian could have been a great character.

>>50308775
Izzat it? Bit disappointing.

>>50308911
Did Varian ever tell Anduin how his grandfather died? Or how his namesake died?

>>50309019
I think Anduin was too busy whining about his dad being mean and then running away to Aunt Jaina (pre-MOP) or Uncle Velen.

>>50309019
Medivh's curse and a duel with Doomhammer, respectively?

>>50309076
Yeah, you'd think he'd have been told that at some point.

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Tell me about the Gnomes. Why are they the worst Warlocks?

>>50307994
>Malfurion not in shit tier
>Tyrande was fine until the awaken Malfurion mission in wc3
>Tyrande was ok until she was made African

>>50309333
Because they are the worst race and should be left to be genocided by their leprosy.

>>50307994
>the best leader
>shit tier

Fuck you, Varian was the greatest character created in wow

>>50310287
Thats not how you spell Kel'Thuzad.

He even has the sexiest voice

>>50308743
you get to fly around admonishing people for not being valorous enough until someone enslaves you to raise the dead
sounds like a 7/10 life desu

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>>50307820
I agree with that, as Grommash is responsible for killing Ogre Emperor that was clearly not an Ogre-Magi (just one head), and back in the Tides of Darkness, Kargath should have been a generation older than Grom by appearance alone.
>Need a hand?
>Do you feel lucky, punk?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWr6rpuHKd0

>>50307088
Garithos was Mop"s Garrosh before WoW was a thing
>Alliance exists for the purpose of betterment of humanity
>All other races should obey humans
>Survival of humanity is more important than anything else, even if it means wiping out races that ensured humanity's survival at its darkest hours, just because they don't do it his own way

>>50307088
The only bad writing regarding Kael was making him join Burning Legion without any of foreshadowing, when TBC had more implications of Illidan being Legion's ally, while Kael'than and Vashj somewhat implied (at least to me due to their Vials of Eternity) to plan to create their own Well of Eternity in Outland, with Vashj's Nagas preparing body of water,n while Kael'thas gathering more raw mana with Mana-Forges,

>>50307994
>Varok Saurfang (is he a racial leader now?)
Pretty much, as he's in achievements for "killing" Horde leaders, though in his case it's not killing and more
>Damage High Overlord Saurfang until he humors you by pretending to die.

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Anyone put any thought into running a game based around Mean Streets of Gadgetzan?

I like how this set really seems to incorporate nearly every corner of Warcraft. Hell, even Goren from /tg/ ended up showing out.

>>50312788

I like how everything can be made to fit warcraft, even prohibition era gangsters. Also, that draenei waifu they added is top tier.

>>50313446
yeah, when the technology for the setting is "whatever seems good" You can do anything from generic fantasy to [It Ain't Me starts playing] in the same breath and have it work somehow

>>50313446
>draenei waifu
where?

>>50314432

Its on another image from the set.

>>50314725
post it then.

>>50312788
>>50313446
I just realised that bunny is there.
What's the deal with that?

>>50317431
there are bunny people in MoP
They were ignored after because they were shitty comic relief that everyone hated

>>50318020
they were super primitive, not intelligent and humanoid.

>>50318226
so are murlocs, and yet Sir Finly Mrrgleton exists

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>>50315910

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>>50318447

>>50305891
How could Quel'Thalas send him aid after the scourging of Lordearon? I know Kael and a few other survived, but wasnt Quel'thalas as a state completely wrecked by Arthas?

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>>50318453

>>50318466
Kael probably took some part of still healthy people (lot of BE were not) that could make a standing force and joined Garithos in hope of counteroffensive against Scourge to regain lost land.

Instead Garrithos' incompetence lead to Alliance losing Blood Elves, failed to secure civilians that got easily wiped out by Arthas, Kel'thuzad, and Sylvanas, and then got himself and his entire army mind controlled by Detheroc (who actually was stronger than Balnazzar and Varimathras), without getting possessed.

Human supremacy lead him to losing.

>>50318489
>Human supremacy lead him to losing.
TFT rerelease where Kosak writes the story when
>Garithos singlehandedly kills the entire blood elf army, then all 3 dreadlords before dueling Sylvanas to a standstill and conceding because he decides she's the one good elf, going to rule Stormwind until God Emperor Varian can come home

>>50312788
>Foreign invaders
>Filthy magic abusers
>True and honest patriots of Azeroth
Tough choice.

>>50319121
>True and honest patriots of Azeroth
You mean the Jade Lotus? They are the only gang without any non-azerothian races, after all.

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>>50318340
Mrrgleton still looks like a murlock, he just speaks and dresses like a gentleman explorer. The MoP rabbit-people on the other hand look like this.

>>50318453
>>50318447
New draenei waifu is cute, but it seems like a bit of an odd decision to put a draenei into the faction that seems to be composed primarily of warlocks, demons, and mana-addicts. That doesn't seem like the kind of people even criminally inclined draenei would associate with.

>>50319505

There were draenei criminals and members of the dragoncult in BC and cata, not all of them are saints.

>>50319505
>>50319559
I'd say she's an eredar if she wasn't blue and a mage card

>>50319599

Technically, all draenei are eredar.

>>50319559
Yeah, draenei can have criminals as well, but they are still from an extremely religious society that has multiple accounts of first-hand experience on anythign related to demons being bad shit, and a demon-lord personally wants them dead because he's still amd their leader broke up with him 20 000 years ago.

Draenei turning to a life of crime is one thing, but one joinign a cabal of warlocks is the equivalent of an American joining a group of satan-worshiping communists who are affiliated with super-Hitler.

>>50319657
but America just barely avoided electing a Satan worshiping communist as their president?

>>50319604
you're correct, but the game usually tries to make a better distinction between Velen's draenei and the Legion's man'ari

>>50319657
Well, that happened with the sargeri, didn't it?

>>50319657

Even the cult of the damned and the twilights had draenei.

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>>50319657
Its all casters. Typical Warlock bullshit has nothing to do with the Kabal's goals.

Stop overthinking it. Its hearthstone. So motha-fucking Space Tieflings dealing in shady shit for that cold gold is A okay.

>>50319505
Draenei like their gems.

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>>50319657
Kabal is all about alchemy and corrupted Mana crystals.
Have a drink of this perfectly safe Kaza-cola. It's totally not going to make you bound to obey our MAGNIFICENT LEADER!

>>50318466

We had what you could call a retcon (if a soft one) for the status of the High Elves post-Scourge. WC3 had it that Quel'thalas was mowed over with the leftover High Elves going Blood Elf. WoW had it that by TBC Quel'thalas is a functional if in dangered state with there being enough leftover High Elves to get in a scuffle with the Blood Elves.

TFT had a a post-apocalyptic style to it that I say hasn't been carried so much into WoW.

>>50320700

They still had undead, trolls, looters and wretched milling around errywhere. That combined with the racewide heroin shakes did not help them to get their shit together.

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>>50320700
All of WoW High Elves were outside of Quel'Thalas when Kel'thuzad was revived in the Sunwell.

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I wonder how Tanaris and Uldum looked like before Lei Shen tried to conquer it.

>>50304838
I always thought he got a pretty good hearing in Shattering, not so much in Warcrimes and ToW admittedly.

>>50322993
Presumably similar to Un'goro and Sholazar.

O wise ones..explain to me this...

Who the fuck is Magni bronzebeards wife?

He has a daughter but is she adopted or something?

>>50323491
She's probably dead, like every other king's wife except Genn's wife whose name I forget.

>>50309333
Weak willed, small and stupid. Always bite off more than they can chew so they can feel respected.
Classic short-man syndrome.

Problem is, Fel Magic and demons don't have room for error so they get burned to a crisp by their own ambition.

Best warlocks in order:
Forsaken
Orcs
Humans
...(long line of who gives a shit)
Gnomes

>>50323770
Gnomes aren't stupid (INT bonus), they're low-WIS. They ask "could I?" instead of "should I?" which is the wrong way to do it with Fel.

Classic nutty professors playing with forces they can't really control just because they know how motors and gadgets work.

>>50323849
They aren't idiots they're just stupid. They read the textbooks and know the words they just don't get context or execution.

If you fuck up an arcane spell it's because you did something wrong, if you fuck up a warlock spell you did something too well.

>>50323913
Do Warlock spellbooks insert warnings after the spell, or do they lack any warnings at all?

>>50323929
>implying Sargeras wants to promote safe, easy, sensible use of Fel

Clearly there are no warnings.

>>50323929
Depends on the author.

If the name is Baalzanar or Mephitos, you might want to look up some secondary sources.

>>50323973
>Mephistroth
He would likely write books on demon-smithing, which would include advice on using other people to do your job while you overlook it, so you won't risk being killed by the energies from the material.

>>50311011
KT is WC3 though, like most of the vaguely likable characters.

>>50321574

But that's not what TFT said:

>Maiev: Kael, where are your high elven brethren? Do they not fight the undead as you do?

>Kael'thas: The Scourge devoured our ancient homeland of Quel'Thalas. The once proud bloodline of my people is nearly spent. The few of us that remain now call ourselves blood elves

The High Elves in WoW are a mistake.

>>50323913
>If you fuck up an arcane spell it's because you did something wrong, if you fuck up a warlock spell you did something too well.
Well, you can fuck up a warlock spell by doing something wrong as well. The difference is that if you do did something wrong you burst into felfire, and if you did it too well you summon JARAXXUS, EREDAR LORD OF THE BURNING LEGION!

>>50324215

On this note,I fucking loved the vanilla warlock class quests. Sure, they were tedious as fuck but it really felt like youre trying to dig up tomes of forbidden knowledge, do dark rituals and meet shifty motherfuckers and their coven hiding in caves. You were skirting with the Legion several times too. By the time you got your epic mount and doomlord(and let it loose in goldshire or razor hill) you felt like one bad motherfucker.

>>50323929
I'm pretty sure the warnings on warlock magic are inherent in what the spells actually do
>summon felguard
>Warning: you are about the kidnap a tall, angry, grey man from his home in the Twisting Nether and attempt to force him to do your bidding. Do you wish to proceed?

>>50325560
More like
>To perform this spell you have to do [instructions]
>Now that you have managed to kidnap a tall, angry, grey man from his home in the Twisting Nether in attempt to force him to do your bidding, this is what he can do. To you or everyone else. You have been warned.

>>50325732
Thoogan's my boy though, we've been through so much together, just a shame I can't demon out with him anymore.

>>50325855
Playing demonology in Legion is worth it just for all the lines where Thal'kiel and your other demon talk shit about the zones
>felguard: I CANNOT WAIT TO SEE THIS CITY BURN!
>Thal'kiel: Suramar has but a fraction the glory of Mac'aree, but it will be cleansed in hellfire all the same!

>>50326192
Still just imagine wandering around Dalaran in metamorphasis with Thal'Kiel and all your other demons broing out and threating to burn it out of the sky.

Still the Fel-commander in the class hall is pretty good too, with his "say the word and your enemies worlds will burn" comment.

>>50326316
>>50326192

legion is a textbook case of trying to hard to be EPICCCCCC with the eredar twins, and shit

>>50326886
What's the deal with the Eredar twins? I cancelled my subscription before Emerald Nightmare came out and never did anything beyond hitting 110 anyway.

>>50326913

They are in the warlock class hall as arm candy iirc. I dont know much either, only played through my free week(in disgust)

>>50324143
Hes p likable in wrath. His coin from the Dal fountain says he needs a hug. Whats not to like?

>>50327078
I would argue that the character and his behavior, especially the affable evil that he and Arthas had going were the products of WC3.

WOW wise, he served as the end boss of two raids and blew up horde tanks in Boreon Tundra, neither of which offer much in the way of character building imo.

>>50326950
I wanted to like Legion, but it just felt very bland and lacked a sense of adventure. I'm really not a fan of being a fated hero either, Mid Wrath was probably the highlight in terms of how famous in game you were.

>>50327078
And he has a cat.

I read a fanfiction that had him and Jaina as main characters. I liked it.

>>50323491
She's dead. It's part of why Magni was so pissed about Moira getting abducted. He had no other heir and couldn't make a new one

>>50318467
waifu / 10

>>50318467
Adorable. That reminds me, though -

How come none of the Broken or Lost Ones went Warlock? Heck, if species like Blood Elves (who are already magic junkies) and Orcs (who got FEL'D hard by their own accord) can be Warlocks and be just fine and still even on the side of Good, I don't see how a Draenei Warlock would have LESS self-control than either of those. Is it all just religion? Surely a Draenei born on Azeroth wouldn't feel the same way as one born on Argus or on Draenor.

>>50326950
Speaking of Class Hall quests, if Warriors are the boss of all remaining Titanic forces on Azeroth, does that make them the boss of the Dragonflights, too? I mean, they did/do technically work for the Titans.

Also does that mean a Troll Warrior could just walk up and conscript Lei Shen (who only wanted to do the work of the Gods), who likely already respects his/her fighting prowess due to having faced him/her in person?

>>50327907
Fucking love Frostblood, untill ~chapter 18ish. Really wish jaina and kt hooked up. He was just written so well

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>>50328978
>jaina/KT hooking up in frostblood

>>50328971
I'm pretty sure the Dragonflights took up their jobs of their own accord. They were empowered, but I think that was more of a gift for their help, and a sign of their partnership. Besides, after Cataclysm they all lost their jobs.

>Also does that mean a Troll Warrior could just walk up and conscript Lei Shen (who only wanted to do the work of the Gods), who likely already respects his/her fighting prowess due to having faced him/her in person?
Possibly? I doubt it though. Lei Shen has too much pride, and would most certainly hold a grudge against you.

>>50329143
True on both counts. Ugh, there goes Operation: Stormforged Mogu.

Guess you can still go recruit Norushen?

>>50329180
>Guess you can still go recruit Norushen?
Anon, you may want to sit down for this...

>>50329308
Oh, right, he's dead isn't he.

Please tell me Ra's still alive.

>>50326913
Warlocks enslave them as revenge for cursing Shinfel Brightsworn, and to steal a powerful ally away from Mephistroth in preparation to attack him in 7.2
Too bad they only show up after you already have 5 champions, like all the other cool ones

>>50329315
>Please tell me Ra's still alive.
Yeah. Wherever he is.

>>50329735
We can only hope someone goes and lets him know Odyn's out of prison. Drag him to Ulduar if that's what it takes.

>>50329759
Let Odyn vacation for a patch or two.
>Mfw after seeing the post-Helya dialogue, I can only imagine Odyn at the beach.

>>50329071
That would've been awful.

>>50328951
>Draenei
>Born on Azeroth
Regular Draenei are either not Warlocks or going full Sargerai.
Lost Ones are too primitive, while Broken likely resent Fel for what it did to them.

>>50329143
>and would most certainly hold a grudge against you.
Tell that to Ymiron.

>>50330850
I doubt Odyn has the same power over mogu as he does over the vrykul

>>50331503
He could always send you with contingent of Stormforged to make Mogu once again obedient to Keepers.

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>>50331859
Also, Lei Shen would be a tough guy to convince on your own.

>>50308576
>>50308627
People around here give props to Lor'thermar because he's one of the only racial leaders who really does put his people first and generally has a good head on his shoulders.

>>50328951
I'm pretty sure there were some broken NPCs that cast shadowbolts and other warlock spells in TBC.

I can't really see an unbroken draenei becoming a warlock, though. At least not without going full LEGIONED. They're very devout followers of the Light, hate demons, and have a lot of first-hand experience with demons fucking their shit up. I could see one maybe becoming a demonhunter under very specific circumstances (loosing all they've cared about to demons and deciding the Light isn't enough and you got to fight fire with fire), but there's still a big difference in using fel/demonic power to kill demons and consorting with and summoning demons.

>>50332708
There's a Broken warlock trainer in Shattrath City.

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>>50309333
>>50323770
>>50323849
>>50323913
Gnomes are almost explicitly characterized by their vast intelligence and unending curiosity. Most everything they do is because "I wanted to try it once and see how it goes." That's how gnomes got priests: they wanted to try out Light-slinging but don't have enough devotion to be paladins.

They're also VAGUELY more stable than their perennial rivals, goblins.

>>50330833

>Lost Ones are too primitive

>he forgets the questline when they tell you to GTFO and let their druidic tribe live in peace

>while Broken likely resent Fel for what it did to them.

There are shit tons of broken warlocks in BC, many of them even joined the shadow council.

>>50332708
If being an orc warlock is considered heresy and tantamount to treason (because you're consorting with the same powers that damned the orcs in the first place), then a draenei warlock is, like, quadruple heresy. It's absolutely inconceivable and runs counter to literally everything they believe in.

>>50332745
Gnomes are one of the easiest races to roleplay as, because they have the fewest minimum bullet points to hit in order to be convincing.

>>50332924
>If being an orc warlock is considered heresy and tantamount to treason (because you're consorting with the same powers that damned the orcs in the first place)
It's really not. It's more like being a telemarketer: no one will like you, but no one can legally kill you for it either, and sometimes, people might grudgingly admit you're of use.

>>50318447
>>50318453
Tell me about evil Draenei waifu

Does she have a card?

>>50332974
Yes, orc warlocks have graduated from "kill on sight" to "necessary evil." In fact, that's practically all PC warlocks: they are the "necessary evil" who learned to fight hellfire with hellfire.

>>50333050
If she's not >>50318467
Then we'll have to wait for the release of Mean Streets of Gadgetzan. Which we have to wait for anyway, if we want to see any lore parts for most of the cards.

>>50332406
nah, you can solo him now with decent gear
Celestials BTFO

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>>50333471
>>50332406

Lei Shen is dead, so I doubt he'll put up much resistance.

One of my favorite part of Legion is it's "Where are they now?" aspect. Factions that players once fought against are pulled into the fold to fight against the Legion's invasion.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Mogu are similarly included. Likely as a future part of the Monk of Shaman class quests.

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>an advanced civilization with space age magitech defeated by tribalistic mud-dwellers

How the hell does that happen?

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>>50334484
They weren't ready for those tribalistic mud-dwellers to be supercharged by demon blood.

>YOU WILL ALL BE CONQUERORS

And all that.

>>50334533
Why didn't the draenei just invent nukes?

>>50334578
velen

>>50334582
>we're stuck on this piece of shit planet after most of our species became evil and hellbent on exterminating us
>what should we do? a) make sure that even if our evil kin happen to find us they'll be unable to corrupt natives because we've converted them all to hardcore light worshiping anti-legion fanatics b) sit in our cities and practice tail sodomy

>>50334669
>you will never go to the alternate timeline full of Orc, Ogre, and even Arakkoa paladins

>>50332745
>That's how gnomes got priests: they wanted to try out Light-slinging but don't have enough devotion to be paladins.
Wait, I thought that in lore, the only difference between a Paladin and a Priest was the ability to wield a sword? I might be remembering something wrong, but I'm sure I remember the first Paladins being Priests that could use weapons. Did I miss something?

What RPG system do you guys use for your campaigns?

Is it true that D&D 4e is basically WoW?

>>50335936
Traditionally, the barrier of entry to be a priest is much lower than that of a paladin. Most paladins follow a traditionally more hardened code and are typically more ardent followers of the Light. In the case of taurens, it's just slightly different Sunwalker traditions.

>>50334484
Always do the opposite of what the talking chandeliers tell you to do.

>>50334484

They were naive, stupid and good hearted. They were just glad KJ finally lost their track and they could finally settle down and rebuild civilian stuff.

They should have worked towards the whole promised "Army of the Light" thing instead of passively waiting it to happen. Cover entire draenor in mines, crystalforges and barracks, churn out magitek golems from their warm-factories, huge starshipwrights building a fleet of nether-battleships, giving lesser races an offer they cant refuse at the point of a lollipop "join us and liberate the galaxy or die" etc.

The draenei going overtly fanatic would have been a much more interesting alt-world than Orclords of Orcnor: Reloaded.

>>50336017
No, that's a meme.

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>>50336191
>the Scarlet Crusade, but an entire planet

Is this the part where we start screaming?

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>>50336023
No, that's just people assuming that Warcraft paladins have a similiar relationship with priests as D&D paladins have with clerics.

In reality, it's because priests have become a washed-out one-size-fits-all class. That should have been clear ever since goblin priests became a thing.

nadie abla español :v

>>50336307
>Priest
>not Warrior and Hunter, the classes literally any race can be

Although I do wonder how gobbo priests work.

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>>50336339
Yeah, but those were intended to be more open from the start. Even then, just about every race has a distinct lore for their version of those classes. Priests started out as fairly exclusive, then got watered down. Didn't help that a lot of the flashier Light stuff went to paladins, while moon-based spells became exclusive to druids, so now you're either a tentacle humping shadow priest or "I dunno some sort of healer lol".

>>50334041
Well, we ARE getting continuations to the class hall campaigns, some interesting stories could be written.

>Paladins and Priests team up again to prepare for the Army of Light's arrival, maybe something with the Sunwell, or Velen snapping out of Rakeesh's death and going LUX VULT
>Mages go to Outland, rebuild/restore Tempest Keep and Manaforges to a reasonable extent (as in, enough to not fuck Outland over again) and use it as an Arcane Turret to protect Dalaran/Karazhan from further Legion incursions
>Shaman go on a long journey to find who rules over what little remains of the Fifth Element (Spirit), and recruiting it
>Druids go on a crusade to purge every last bit of Nightmare corruption on Azeroth and the Emerald Dream while slaughtering every Satyr along the way
>DKs retake Naxxramas, and go on a quest to find KT's philactery and bring him back as a reluctant (because "not muh LK") ally
>Hunters go seek the help of any remaining Wild Gods (and their children) the Druids forgot in their campaign
>Monks team up with Lorewalker Cho/Chen/Li Li/Taran Zhu to find Keeper Ra's hideout in Pandaria and convince him to join the fight
>Warlocks go on skirmishes across the Great Dark Beyond, using Mardun as a weapon (like, say, Mogo the Living Planet) to fuck up Legion planets/troops/suplies
>Rogues act as diplomats, trying to ease faction attrition, uncover Legion spies, and sabotage/kill anyone consorting with the Legion
>Warriors get on a diplomatic mission to bring the Mogu and any stray Titan races under Odyn's banner (maybe with some help from the Monks), or restore and reactivate the Earthen/Stormforged-generating machines in Ulduar
>Demon Hunters all die in a fire and finally stop fucking things up, so that actually competent people can do actual work instead of cleaning up their messes

If something has already happened/makes no sense, well, just disregard it. Only saw the Paladin, Shaman, and part of the Druid campaigns, so far.

>>50336935
Shamans could also maybe recruit AltDraenor's elementals, or the few in Outland.

>>50336935

Thumbs up to your ideas. Hopefully it also ends with Odyn getting murdered viciously. Dude has it coming. And I still believe "The Lord of Ravens will turn the key." refers to his cocky manipulative ass and him trying to free himself from HoV will result in the Old Gods going free.

>>50337212
>implying Odyn hasn't been punished enough for being a jerk umpteen-thousand years ago

He seems to have long since mellowed out. As in, a lot. Never mind that Helya's only gotten more and more bitter as time has passed, and gotten way too many innocent souls involved.

>>50336935
>>50337196
Shamans are my jam, so this is cool with me. For some reason, the shaman story doesn't feel as grand and important as it should. I mean yeah, "rally all the elements and Elemental Lords" should cover a lot, but I don't feel much weight to it compared to many of the other campaigns. Then again, top-tier shamans are recognized at least within their own circle; if a shaman wields the Fist of Ra-Den, every non-boss elemental in the world turns neutral to you, because they know not to fuck with you.

Plus, being a shaman is about communing with the spirits, not just the elements, so you'd think there would be more of that going around.

>>50337264
Admittedly I'm a bit bitter because, I recently played through the Warrior campaign and I'm sick of having to prove my worth to that guy.

So here we are, the Legion is attacking Azeroth and, instead of staying focused on killing demons and defending against the old gods, we players are pulled into Odyn's drama. He could fix this, free Helya and apologize, but instead he offers us loot if we go kill someone he dicked over.

>>50337363
>>50337374
Didn't someone say that if any one class is the "progatonist" of the current expansion, it's the Warrior?

>>50337374
True enough. But then, here we are with her needing to die several times over for other reasons (stealing souls all over the place, working for Yogg-Saron, that sort of thing).

>>50337374

Thats nothing if true to the actual behavior of Odin in the sagas. I kinda miss the part when he shapeshifted into a witch and sucked dick to learn female magic only learnable through ingesting semen though. Or then one when he killed another god as a prank and blamed it on another one who got cursed into infinite suffering for it and then he fucked his widow.

>>50337412
True, Helya has earned probably earned her death while Odyn, who has many faults, has acted in what he thought was Azeroth's best interest. I still believe that dying at the hands of the old gods would be a fitting end for him.

>>50337605
Or how he and Loki used to go and dick around in Midguard together.

Also he keeps the skull of his uncle or one of the Vanir he killed so it can give him advise.

>>50336935
>>Demon Hunters all die in a fire and finally stop fucking things up, so that actually competent people can do actual work instead of cleaning up their messes
And they can stop bitching about their fucking pittance of a sacrifice.
Fuck them.

>>50338769
Roses are red.
Souls are riven.
I'VE SACRIFICED EVERYTHING!
What have YOU given?

>>50338791
>be the DH PC
>go to my order hall
>talk to my buddy Kayn
>I HAVE SACRIFICED EVERYTHING! WHAT HAVE YOU GIVEN?
>what? Did you forget that time where I literally killed myself so we could capture Mardum? Cause it was like 5 months ago not counting the time we were in that gay ass crystal
>MY LIFE IS DEDICATED TO DESTROYING THE BURNING LEGION
>yes I know, you fuck. That's why we're here
>WE ARE ALL THAT STANDS BETWEEN THE LEGION AND ANNIHILATION
>fuck this shit I'm gonna go see if the death knights are recruting

DHs are just cringeworth edgelords. Atleast the DKs have the excuse of being involuntarilty changed and trying to make the best of their curse.

DKs just go

>damn, the burning legion fucked me over and I REALLY want revenge what the fuck I do?
>maybe join the army? practice some light spells? become a paladin and purge evil wherever I go?
>nah son, that shits weak, I'm going to eat a demons heart, drinks its blood and seal its soul into myself until I go delirious from the pain and visions and claw my eyes out
>then I go and serve alongside a half demon who served killy jay before
>never mind fighting alongside demons, fel orcs, DREADLORDS and other legion shit, we got this
>this is a perfect plan, no way we can fuck this up
>better whine about my huge sacrafice that no one asked to do it and was completely pointless
>I also eat souls and revel in bloodshet, completely unlike a demon
>in fact I'm just a fucking demon, whos idea was this shit?
>btw the demon soul inside me is constantly trying to get me to serve the legion and will eventually do so no matter how hardcore I am
>RESPECT MY SACRIFICE ABLOOBLOOBOOOOOO

>>50340219
>>btw the demon soul inside me is constantly trying to get me to serve the legion and will eventually do so no matter how hardcore I am
the best part is when you kill Cordana in Vault and one of your followers blames her for all of the DHs turning evil

>>50337398
That person was wrong. Warriors have gotten dicked pretty hard
>class hall is reused dungeon assets
>partway through alpha the original plan of a universal Azerothian Valhala got scrapped in exchange for Vrykul and Vrykul accessories
>at launch both of their DPS specs were barely playable, and their tank spec was ludicrously OP, making everyone except warrior mains who exclusively play prot hate the class
>only class whose campaign time gates weren't bugged to be a third the length they were meant to be, causing warriors to be a week or more behind everyone else in progression

>>50329071
I mean he is a wizard with unlimited free time. Its not like its impossible

>>50342242
eventually jaina would go mad, either keep banging darion or bring back arthas from super hell to be her new boy toy

>>50342701
>implying she's not of stronger will than that

You give Lady Proudmoore too little credit.

>>50334712
>even Arakkoa paladins
Aren't there Arakkoa Paladins in Outland? Or at least one. Or is he just a Priest?

>>50336191
>They were just glad KJ finally lost their track and they could finally settle down and rebuild civilian stuff.
Technically, they had little choice, with Genedar crash landing and stuff.

And nether-ships were all from Windchimes, even Tempest Keep and its satellite ships arrived only after Draenor turned to Outland.

>>50344038
she had almost had sex with ner'zhul/arthas spirit, then banged darion, then proceeded to have spirit sex with just Arthas without ner'zhul there. it's not a matter of if she will go crazy, it's a matter of when. it might take some time, but she is immortal now (probably). think she'll just keep hanging KT and banging DK's after 1k+ years? she'll want something else to spice up her undeath. that's either bringing back arthas from super hell, engaging in corrupted love with slyvanas, or getting 'volunteers' to be raised into new DK's

>>50336286
It happened before in D&D, in the homeworld of Harmonium (Faction from Planescape). They started with killing all Evil races of their world. Later they did the same with all Chaotic races. Planeswalking Elves didn't took well to learn about the latter.

>>50336935
>>Shaman go on a long journey to find who rules over what little remains of the Fifth Element (Spirit), and recruiting it
>Taking Spirit that is drained by World-Soul forming up
>Not finding and subduing Decay with help of Taunka, that knew how to use Decay since ages to survive, before Garrosh stole from them idea to form Dark Shamans
>Not recruiting Yaungol and actually bringing Ordos as one of the top enforcers
Step up your game.

>>50337712
Mimir was a giant and uncle of Odin from mother's side.
Vanir were the ones who beheaded him, but his head was pretty preserved and still talking.

>>50340630
Well, at least in case of Varedis, you can blame Altruis and Altruis alone.
>Blizzard thought it's a good idea to make him an option for your second in comand
Like, one would have to never play TBC questline to want this guy while being even a little in character of their DH. Were there really no other options?
>ywn have Loramus as the sole option for second in command

>>50345210
She was still mortal. For some reason she was very against becoming undead, though it would probably be in everybody's intrest for her to become a lich and remain LK.

Amoung other missed plot opportunities

>>50345464
Yeah I knew it was something like that, been a long time since I read the Norse sagas.

>>50345500
List of Demon Hunters that were implied to become those before the end of War of the Ancients
>Illysanna Ravencrest
>Telarius Voidstrider
>Loramus Thalipedes
Possible self-taught Demon Hunters:
>Feronas Sindweller
>Telarius Voidstrider

Telarius Voidstrider could be either due to http://wow.gamepedia.com/Quest:Writings_of_the_Void

So many not bad options, but no, better give us awful Altruis, who is a traitor, cause of death of many DHs by hands of Varedis, and is likely mostly thinking about getting control over Illidari for himself.

>>50345634
But now the pieces are set for a thrilling betrayal! As you fight the rebels who eventually give in to the Legion and unveil the final boss of your class campaign.

>>50309603

This man speaks the truth.
Purge them in the name of the Light.

>>50324189

Indeed they are just a copout that's never really bothered to be explained.

Another reason for my risisng elf hate, especially with this expansion War of the Ancients lore is cool, but too much elf for me please, no matter what the people from my RP realm say

>>50336017
Here's the thing about 4E: It gave each class named abilities that strongly resemble WoW's (or any MMO's skillsystem for that matter) skillsystem of ability X doing Y points of damage and having Z side effect.

Like playing a Fighter, instead of some arbitrary bonus to out of combat situations and "hitting harder" you got in 3.5E, a level up in 4E allowed you to pick some variation of "hit harder", "hit faster" and "hit more people at the same time" that had a fancy name. Coupled with the feat system, it really started to feel like somebody had condensed WoW's skill and talent system into a tabletop shape.

Top it off with the heavy combat focus of the system's installment and a lot of official art going WoW pauldrons and you'll easily see how 4E could be seen as a WoW tabletop.

Luckily for us, if you actually wanted to play a WoW tabletop and not a tabletop in Azeroth, your choice was very clear.

>>50336017
If I ever ran a WoW game, I'd probably use the Log Horizon system

It's the system that most accurately represents an MMORPG system in a tabletop game

>>50336339
Goblin priests are televangelists

>>50346836

I like the way you think, Anon.

>>50300383
Or get rezzed again by the one true kang

>>50305692
>destroy the ONLY HOPE FOR SALVATION
>GOOD
Nice try yogg/shitgeras

If the Old Gods are so great at corrupting, why didn't they corrupt Illidan when he was first imprisoned over 10,000 years? Or all of the DHs while they were imprisoned between BC and Legion?

>>50347322
they didn't think the "promise him his waifu's ass" trick would work twice in a row, and they couldn't come up with something else that might work on him

>>50347342

"You hate the legion? We hate the legion too. We can free you if you work with us. Let us in and we'll let you out." Or hell, be more subtle and start putting dreams in his head. They had 10,000 years. They corrupted Deathwing and the Titan's watchers. Angsty Illidan should have been cake.

>>50347392
>fel oldbgod illidan
>still loses to arthas

>>50347434

Don't you understand, anon? He had to lose to Arthus. Illidan is the chosen one! He's fated to lead the whole universe to salvation.

>>50345144
The leader of the arakkoa in Shattrath is a priest: http://wow.gamepedia.com/Rilak_the_Redeemed
And there is these guys in sethekk halls who have paladin skills: http://www.wowhead.com/npc=18321/sethekk-talon-lord

>>50345232

Fighting an overly zealous AU draenei crusade would have been so interesting. Just make them an entire race of fanatically Lawful Good Judge Dredds. So fanatical they actually have to be put down a notch because they genocide you if you dont 100% agree with them or your race has too many traitors who have fallen to demons/old gods.

Afterall, the entire pull of WoD was we are finally fighting a mortal army with mortal tactics, weaponry and leaders not demons/undead/elementals/whatever then they managed to ruin the entire thing by turning the Iron Horde into a punching bag whos invasion you thwart in the first ten minutes and then use them as a punching bag for the lest of the expansion pack, they never achieve anything after. Hell, they even drink the Mannoroth kool-aid and we fight demons, what was the fucking point then?

>>50347559
Cant wait for the LK to save azeroth from nigzoth

>>50347392
The Titan watchers were sitting right next to an Old God, and Deathwing had a storng connection with earth and spent a lot of time deep underground, which amde him more suspectible to the whispers of the Old Gods trapped deep below earth. Plus, they did promise him both Alexstraza and Ysera as his waifus. Would you not have taken that deal?
In general, the influence of the Old Gods is strongest close to them (like in Northrend you can hear Yog-Saron's whispers in areas with large amount of saronite), and to those who are already connected to the elements and thus have easier time hearing them. Illidan was just stuck in a cell, without any particular spiritual or physical connection to the Old Gods.

>Eredar are highly adept at gemcrafting, which they use to carve the crystals of Argus who're naturally respondent to Arcane energies into powerful channelling artifacts
>They craft Naaru, which are arcane super AIs, and send them into space to help them colonise other worlds by them transforming into portal anchors on planets
>In order to supercharge their Naaru, the Eredar experiment with fel, which leads to the portal network becoming unstable and collapsing
>Colonies go lost, only a minor portion of portals ever gets rediscovered and brought back online, Naaru are kept on-world for infrastructure and arcane distribution
>Lost colonists become demonic entities, which in turn use their technology to conquer a portion of the galaxy for themselves and establishing a fel Imperium at war with Nathrezim that makes life shit for all races and species caught between the warring demons
>Sargeras cleans house, later gets corrupted through subtle sorcery and suggestions by EreZim ship
>Sargeras frees demons and appoints Kil'Jaeden and Archimonde as his top dogs
>The two Eredar see the Legion as their perfect opportunity to steamroll Argus and claim it as the new capitol world for a new Eredar empire
>Chief-Arcanist Velen foresees dark omens but is laughed off as "False Prophet", gathers as much support as possible
>They manage to activate one portal that was dormant all this time which leads them to draenor, but it is highly unstable
>Velen holds it open but fuses with Naaru anchor in the process, making him Pink Lich King Magni in the process
>Now self-declared Draenei have to start from scratch
>Plains are dominated by brownskinned underbite degenerate apes
>Forests are haunted by birdmonsters
>Retreat to mountains despite even bigger brownskinned underbite degenerate apes, but those are fewer in numbers so manageable
>Build magical spires from left over crystals, begin trade with apes who call themselves orcs

[cont.]

>>50349151
you forgot
>hi I'm Thal'kiel, and this is Jackass

>>50349151
>Cue some-thousand years of rebuilding civilisation on new planet with occasional wars against orc-clans and arakkoa empire while Velen is stuck in Osho'gun, his arcane resonance fuelling the spirits of the deceased and making it a holy place for orcs
>Mountain sprouts new arcane crystals in the process
>Draenei run out of crystals to channel arcane, discover shamanism as alternative spellcasting, which leads to an ideological split
>Arcanist draenei undertake expeditions for resonance crystals, want to mine Osho'gun and Gorgrond
>Cue rising tensions with Shadowmoon and Blackrock-clans
>Orc-clans become increasingly angry at Draenei mining operations
>Kil'jaeden appears, wants to take over Draenei for their crystal resources and left over Naaru technology
>Cue the pouring of the Kool-Aid and the Green Chimpening
>Draenei go into hiding in their ruined mountainspires, Orcs use looted Naaru crystals to build portal anchor on Draenor while Medivh-Sargeras home in on them to bring the orcs through
>20-odd years of orcish warbands raiding human villages at the border of Stormwind's territory, bringing in weapons, slaves and food to bribe and persuade more orc-chiefs to join the war effort while Naaru crystals are used to build another portal anchor on Azeroth
>Warcraft: Orcs and Humans
>Draenor assplodes
>Draenei hide in arcane crystal bunkers, those who can't die or mutate into broken and lost ones
>Burning Crusade
>Illidari bully Draenei for their arcane toys, Kael steals Naaru and sends it home to Silvermoon to be siphoned for Arcane by his people
>Draenei corps flees to Osho'gun and has Velen teleport them to Azeroth where they crashland on Azuremist
>They learn of the philosophy of the Light from random encounter with humans, instantly become hooked because it's superior anti-fel for some reason
>Military corps joins the Alliance in the name of remaining Draenei in order to save their people and beloved Prophet in the Outlands.

>>50349151
>>50349348
What this solves:
>Eredar aren't millennia-old space-elf aliens, simply sorceror artisans
>Eredar demons corrupting sargeras still possible because of past fuck-ups
>Actual reason for Velen to be fucking stationary because his ass is stuck in place and he can't move a muscle
>The Light is still a wonderfully unique spiritual philosophy invented by humans and not a magical plane of itself
>Naaru are still important despite not being condescending omniscient windchimes
>Actual reason for Orcs to dislike Draenei because of invasive occupation instead of MUH DEAD WIFE SAID SO
>Draenei aren't superior on Draenor because they're living in antarctica shelter-like housings, orcs steamrolling them is self-explanatory

Y/N?

>>50349453
>Give humans the credit for inventing the Light

>As if we need to give those mary sue fucks more avhievements.

Other than that not bad

>>50349453
>Simply Sorceror Artisans
>Mastered Arcane space travel
>aren't millenia space-elf aliens
>instead are Arcane Protoss with hooves and mouths, whose part of society got Fel-corrupted
>Used Fel back in the day, which collapsed their inter-stellar Empire
>Gets defeated by Orcs using Fel power they should know better than those that only started using Kool-Aid
>Arcane power somehow drawing out spirits of Ancestors, which are more related to Element of Spirit
>Acting as if that makes sense more than Dark Naaru that is using Spirit to revert itself back to Light status, though it takes ages
Too many things that makes me dislike it, to be honest.

>>50349759
The Light is the one thing that was genuinely cooler being an original trilogy Force-ripoff than noblebright warp energy. For it to be this way, it needs to be human origins. Sorry bruv, we can throw some other shit out though.

>>50349848
>Mastered arcane space travel
Well what else to do with magical crystals? Something over the top is bound to happen.
>Should know about Fel better than anyone else
This is arguable, I see your point though. We're talking of a society here, and I doubt that everyone in this society is actually schooled in the fel. Depending on how intense their research was apart from "this stuff makes things go faster, let's just pour it into the engine and see what it does!", it's absolutely possible for Draenei to know jackshit about fel when it comes to using it in warfare
>Arcane draws spirits
That's entirely me, I admit it. I just want magic to be a spectrum, again, not a hektagon. Arcane, fel, void, death, nature, spirits, psychic manifestations of Light, I just want them to be part of a family instead of opposing forces.

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>>50350021
Only if you want to look at them as purely opposing forces.

>>50350021
You don't have to change the nature of the Light for the draenei to have known about it before meeting humans. I preferred the old Light lore too, but there was nothing about it that said it was exclusive to Azeroth. There's nothing wrong with the draenei and humans discovering it independently.

>>50350487
>>50350021

Everything about chronicles is pure ass. The cosmology and fundamental forces of a setting is not something that should be discussed this openly and with this clarity. At best we should get vague in-universe glimpes and allusions, treated as incredibly powerful secrets of creation, vaunted arcane knowledge only a handful of mortals may even know.

This just kills off any subtletly or possibility of buildup through stories and worldbuilding. Showing, not telling. Its like the DM just throws out a blueprint of a house instead of decribing it. The existence of the "Void Lords" stupid as they are for relegating lovecraftian horror old gods into patsies should have been revealed as an OH SHIT wham line at the end of a mythic only boss and vaguely alluded by some NPCs before, not just thrown out in a supplementary book.

>>50350487
It's been brought up that Light and Void are opposite ends that collided and brought into existence the fel, so am I really that wrong for believing these forces are opposing eachother?

I remember in one of the earliest Warcraft threads, there was a lot of confusion about how we were to interpret it.

I brought up the idea that it's supposed to imitate the principle of the Norse Nine Worlds, with different schools of magic tapping into those six planes we have here to channel energy for their spells.

Now the way these forces are aligned on this graph, it's not that far fetched to interprete them as opposites, and Chronicles describes them in a dualistic relationship, as well.

>>50350616
In fact I do.

>Old Light lore makes it a psychic manifestation of virtuous thinking that shapes the magical property of the world around you into a life-positive force.

>New Light lore makes it a pre-fabricated golden milkshake you can pour from the Naaru-tap.

In short, the old lore makes it so that the individual has the power, not the universe. New lore has it the other way around.

Sure, humans inventing the philosophy doesn't necessarily contradict Draenei having a different access, but let's be real here: The latter pretty much makes the former irrelevant. If you can heal people and smite demons because you swore alliegance to magical crystal windchimes, why would you ever go through the hassle of meditating and reflecting on your life and your emotions and foster a personal relationship with your karma? Why 'waste' time fostering a strong will to shape the world around you if the not!Angels will give it to you after enlisting to their army of light?

It also made the Shadow a much more interesting concept, as the virtues have similar practice but different goals, which drives home just how entwined the two are.

>>50351450

This. Before that idiotic retcon, being a paladin meant something. You were a RIGTHEOUS as fuck knight, sworn to uphold your duties and chase evil to the end of the earth and accepting any sacrifice or curse to save your people. And then you fell for it.

It also reflected the devotion and discipline draenei have. Going with the plan, doing the right thing, taking the sacrifices, the genocides, the millennia of fleeing in stride because at the end you are doing the right thing, upholding everything that is right and just despite easy power and glory is just a hands reach away.

Every single paladin had a little personal story why they chose the honor road, now they are just stupid light wizards who got empowered.

>>50351450
Thing is, that retcon about the Light comes from the Chronicles, not the draenei and the naaru. The draenei worshipped the Light in the exact same way as humans did, albeit with slightly different iconography and such, because they'd been mentored by naaru.

The naaru themselves weren't fonts of Light, they were just extremely in tune with it (like the difference in power level between Yoda and Luke, if you will). "Army of Light" was not a thing in TBC, the naaru were just helping out where it seemed appropriate.

There is one exception that I'll grant you, and that's when M'uru was captured and drained by the blood elves. Even then, though, the way the Light was described remained largely the same up until Chronicles. The Warcraft 2 novelizations, as bad as they were, wrote the Light like that, and they were released -after- the naaru were introduced in TBC.

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>>50351450
>>50351500
>Old Light lore
It's why the Scarlet Crusade could have paladins, despite being hilariously xenophobic, malicious and downright evil at times: they could still sling the Light because they earnestly believed that what they were doing was right and just, and that's all the Light cares about.

>>50352139
>being hilariously xenophobic, malicious and downright evil at times

Forsaken sympathizer please, the only wrong thing that SC did was that they didn't check their leadership for demonic possession.

>>50352008
The Army of Light was actually first mentioned in TBC Draenei fluff, but as something that might happen in the future. I don't remember if it was the Naaru telling them, or Velen getting a vision, but the Draenei believed that one day the and other races would form an Army of Light to fight back the Legion. It was one of the reasons for them joining the Alliance, since teaming up with other races that also worship the Light would be a good start.

Of course in Legion they made the Army of Light to actually already exist, rather than something that might be created in a distant future, which raises the question of why the Draenei weren't part of it already.

>>50352191
They thought dwarves were cunts and couldn't be trusted.

>>50352191

That entire demonic possession thing reeks of bullshit. Its like blizzard were writing up a civil war between the forsaken and overzealous paladins and they decided to bitch out of it and just made the scarlets lolevil with a demon possessed paladin amongst an entire order of paladins.

>>50352191
>>50352214
In fact, anyone who didn't already live in a Scarlet enclave/stronghold was under suspicion, and even then, you'd still be at risk of harrassment.

>>50352230
It was already enough that they were writing up tension amongst the human paladin orders: Silver Hand/Argents were moderates, Scarlets were extremists who worked out of the basement of the Stormwind church because no one else trusted them or could put up with them.

So now that sylvannas will get redeemed or whatever, can the forsaken stop being cunts?

>>50352214
Tbf dorfs are prone to being cunts.

>>50352214

At the start they had elven and dwarven members. They have their statues is Herod's room detailing how they actually attempted a crusade on northrend far before wotlk. Then constant losses and infiltrations by the cult of the damned made them the paranoid and vengeful fucks they were. Not one but two dreadlords infiltrating an order of fucking paladins literally made zero sense.

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My, you're a tall one! Let's fix that.

>>50352314
They're extremist zealots. They're either easily duped or easily misdirected. After all, dreadlords are famed for their lies and deceit more than anything else; it's not hard to deceive a frothing-at-the-mouth zealot.

>>50352382

>paladins not detecting a demon

>>50352494
>who is Arthas

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>>50312788
I wish they'd give us like more lore details on the new Gadgetzan.

Short story, more maps & concept art, or whatever.

More important I want to know what this card is all about.

>>50352584
It's a gnome bobby. What's not to get?

>>50352584
>Warlock Legendary
>In Gadgetzan cards, this means Kabal related
>Eyes glows blue like some DK
>Wanted posters include Annoy-O-Tron
Kabal once again proving their superiority.

>>50352584

I love that artstyle and less serious aspects of the lore so much. Its always so much better than when they try to write super srs "epic" lore and it comes off as a superhero fight.

>>50352515

Mal'ganis revealed himself to Arthas, he didnt have to detect shit.

>>50352008
I see where you're coming from.

The Naaru being "in tune with The Light" however is what already irks me. Old lore had "the Light" as a religious ideal that helped people manifest their own spiritual potential. It couldn't be "stored" in crystals or engines like Arcane.

With the introduction of the Naaru, it became a universally accepted principle that exists just like Arcane and can be taken and molded as required.

If the Draenei had a similar religious philosophy like the Light, but calling it differently and maybe different practices to the same ends, I wouldn't be opposed. However the Draenei didn't discover their own psychic potential, they discovered an alien lifeform that acted as their patron. In a way, they're more warlocks than paladins because they accept the gift of a magical and powerful being that in turn empowers them magically. They called their new found religion "the Light", we have no source of them saying "It's the most fitting translation of our own concept".

Draenei having a knightly order of virtuous warriors is not wrong, draenei having a copypaste human paladins who are original human paladins before human paladins is wrong.

>>50352494
I don't think WoW paladins have ever really been mentioned to be able to detect demons. If I remember correctly in vanilla they could detect undead (i.e. track them on the minimap), but warlocks were the class with ability to track demons and see invisibility.

>>50352748
Honestly I loved the humour in Warcraft but I always saw it as something fourth wall breaking or semi-canon.

Warcraft 3 gave us a very neutral atmosphere, I think. The funny, the good and the evil all conveyed perfectly witch maybe just a gentle swap of the colour palette.

Same with WoW, actually, although I do admit looking at the course of the expansions I really see them trying to push an emotion rather than evoke it.

>>50352793
>In a way, they're more warlocks than paladins because they accept the gift of a magical and powerful being that in turn empowers them magically.
Warlocks, by definition, sling fel magic. Draenei would sooner die that willingly consort with the fel.

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>>50352793
>In a way, they're more warlocks than paladins because they accept the gift of a magical and powerful being that in turn empowers them magically.
I think this is where we fundamentally disagree. I don't remember the draenei ever actually receiving any power from the naaru, just knowledge. When I said that naaru are "in tune with the Light", I meant that as in them being really, really good at using it, possibly inherently so. Not that they were any sort of Light elemental.

In short, the draenei worship of the Light is not dependent on the naaru, they just revere them as mentors and people-who-do-this-thing-better-than-me.

And for what it's worth, draenei do have different names for their Light-wielders: paladins are vindicators, priests are anchorites.

>>50352915
I mean it in the more technical aspect of Warlocks, or maybe in the D&D properties of the class if they translate into Warcraft in any measure.

They make pacts with magical entities. In this case, Demons. They gain their power from somewhere else at the price of a bit of themselves or someone else.

This is basically what post TBC paladins are now doing and what the Draenei-dins introduced. The Naaru are their well from which they draw their power. They don't "give" from themselves like lifeblood or their soul or somesuch, but they do give their service in the Naaru's cause.

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>>50353123
>Friends, it is my great pleasure to welcome you to the temple today.
>A'dal has been most generous in his revelations to me, a humble servant of the light.
>In accordance with my divine calling, I must share these revealed truths to all who would hear.
>It has been made known to me that inside each of us, the Light resides...
>...that it is a gift, given freely to all naturally born beings.
>It manifests itself as a feeling, small at first and easily ignored, that confirms truths and subtly prods one to do good.
>Simple kindnesses, charitable deeds, service to those in need. These are all fruits of the Light.
>It rewards those who heed its promptings with blessings, both seen and unseen.
>Personal reservoirs of hope and faith are strengthened, and one's capacity for greater light increases.
>Over the course of time, through obedience to the Light's guidance, one becomes more sensitive to its voice, and its power.
>Great is the healing and blessing power of the Light's most diligent followers.
>Sadly, there are those who wander through mortality in defiance of the Light.
>From these the Light withdraws, until only darkness remains.
>Where there is no light, despair, loathing and rage thrive.
>We are born into a perilous age, where the forces of darkness are determined to bring about our destruction.
>These are the times to find yourselves in unison with the Light.
>Hear my words, and let the Light inside of you confirm the truth of them.
>Embrace the light that is in you, my friends! Deny yourself all darkness...
>We must endure these trying times faithfully, and one day we will find ourselves victorious.
>By the naaru, may it be so.

That's from patch 2.4, make of that what you will. Honestly, it kind of gives credence to both our interpretations.

Speaking of the Light: The Chronicles speak of it as a caleidoscopic, rainbow coloured plane.

This alone would lend it a much more volatile and powerful, as well as ambiguous nature which frankly I would find much more appealing than falling into an angelic force fighting void satan.

Why are served this golden lollipop light at every opportunity in WoW? (Apart from the fact that Blizzard is keeping it cost efficient with their art direction, of course.)

>>50352822

IIRC there were several quests with paladins finding demons. Hell in Legion they have this as an unique class stuff, they can sometimes unmask demon NPCs.

>>50352793

It was an interesting take on paladins and could have worked if it remains draenei-exclusive to play up their alienness. Even their master wizards were warp-engineers and artificers building magitek stuff instead of spell-slinging dudes in pointy hats.

>>50350622
>The existence of the "Void Lords" stupid as they are for relegating lovecraftian horror old gods into patsies should have been revealed as an OH SHIT wham line at the end of a mythic only boss and vaguely alluded by some NPCs before, not just thrown out in a supplementary book.
Blizzard has been ruining the game lore with supplementary books since Wrath, idk why you're only surprised now

>>50354999
There's a difference between novels that just happen to be badly written, and a compendium whose entire purpose is to blurt out HERE'S ALL THE DETAILS OF THIS UNIVERSE, NO NEED FOR ANYMORE MYSTERIES. Plus, a few of the novels were actually decent.

>>50351450
>I brought up the idea that it's supposed to imitate the principle of the Norse Nine Worlds, with different schools of magic tapping into those six planes we have here to channel energy for their spells.
Oh, so you were the one who came with this stupid idea, despite it not corresponding with anything that was established in the Lore, like in The Last Guardian and Lord of The Clans?

I bet you believe fireballs are summoned from Firelands.

>>50355391
If fireballs belong to the school of fire and not arcane, yeah why shouldn't they?

The blood mage's phoenix is said to be summoned from the firelands, but the blood mage is no shaman, he's an academic arcanist.

I imagine it like this:
>Mage learns the schools of magic in textbook fashion
>To summon entity a provide formula b and reagent c yadda yadda
>Tapping into different planes channels mana of the respective school which enable altering physics in the material plane
>Summonning a fireball requires a spark of firemana to trigger heat concentration to enable fireball
>Greater spells require methodical preparation with runes acting as conduits and circuits that are connected to firelands in order to channel more firemana faster

>>50354402
>IIRC there were several quests with paladins finding demons. Hell in Legion they have this as an unique class stuff, they can sometimes unmask demon NPCs.
Just Hunters. Warlocks were making deals. Don't recall any Vanilla quest involving demons for Paladins only.
And Paladin needs Prot shield to detect Demons, and that's a Keepers artifact.

>>50353123
>This is basically what post TBC paladins are now doing and what the Draenei-dins introduced. The Naaru are their well from which they draw their power.
Except that's never how it worked for the Drenei. Only Blood Elves were like that.

>>50350622

>Everything about chronicles is pure ass. The cosmology and fundamental forces of a setting is not something that should be discussed this openly and with this clarity. At best we should get vague in-universe glimpes and allusions, treated as incredibly powerful secrets of creation, vaunted arcane knowledge only a handful of mortals may even know.

In other words, they made it too videogamey.

Among other retfons, I miss the days when Fel and Arcane weren't surely separate, enemy, magics. Older Lore talked about Fel being a corrupted version of Arcane and back in WC3 you had Fire Magic (for example) demonic. Archimonde even talked about the Dalaran wizards using the Burning Legion's fire.

>>50353692
With enough interpretation this is how could different races use Light, even Draenei and Easter Kingdoms flavour could be from a different frequency of light. And it goes even further with Trolls, Tauren, and Night Elves, not mentioning Goblins.

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>>50355569
Summoned sentient beings are just that. Hence why mage can summon Water Elemental with binding shackles on it.
Arcane is a way of manipulating the surrounding. Fire is gathering heat from around you to ignite air between your hands and create fireball. Frost would be the opposite of that.

Mages like you would not recognize parallel dimensions even if they would punch you in the face.
t. Medivh

>>50355969
>NElf Light is silver because Elune
>Tauren Light is orange because An'she
>Goblin Light is gold because money
>Troll Light is (color) because Loa
>Human/Dwarf/Gnome Light is (color) because they're all part of roughly the same Church
>BElf Light is (red? orange?) because Sunwell
>Draenei Light is (color) because Naaru

At no point is green listed because the Druids have monopoly on green.

>>50356286
>Frequency of channeled Light affects the philosophy of priests and paladins
Though it would likely be in rainbow spectrum.
Though Goblins and green could work, as long as Kaja'mite is green.

>>50355882

It triggers me so much, because any writer worth its salt would absolutely love to slowly introduce all these mindblowing new discoveries, make them feel groundbreaking revelations instead of just laying them out "nah, here you go, this is how the universe works".

Void Lords for example should have been HUUUGE.

>set up some kind of Azjol Nerub raid, even if its just a couple bosses, the players would go apeshit over it and lots of assets can be reused
>make it long and tedious on purpose, long, winding tunnels full of annoying trash and secret fun stuff like cultist bookshelves full of gibberish to simulate th feeling of going really deep
>some of them keep talking about some master from beyond existence
>"kill" an old god
>it turns out it wasnt the master from beyond existence, he was just a servant
>some tiny scraps of contradictory lore get be gleamed out about the void lords from the place
>they are literally outside existence and somehow intruding in, like an alien, never existed thought invading a sane mind
>as they intrude upon the universe they distort and break the laws of the universe around them, subtly imply they are the cause of magic existing
>the old gods are simply like lice felling off them and surviving on other hosts
>they exist beyond reason, beyond sanity, beyond laws
>they are likely behind the disappearence of titans, not sargeras
>make lovecraft great again

>>50356583
That stuff should have really be revealed in WoD, with Cho'Gall's new "Masters" and stuff. But Wod had more cut content than it had included content, so you will never know what he meant there, or how Farahlon looked like.

>>50356583
>>50356703
And I don't mean all you wrote, but parts of what was in Chronicles. Like existence of Void Lords, their relation to Voidwalkers, the Old Gods, and the whole deal about Naaru <-> Dark Naaru -> Void God cycle.

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>>50357928

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>>50357942

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>>50357967

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>>50357983
bump limit soon

>gobbo televangelists
CAN YOU FEEL THE POWAH OF THE MACAROONS?

>>50359300
Isn't that just another name for a goblin priest?

>>50359332
yep

>>50297996
>that Gurubashi tendril
>no major cities along the way
>large mountain ranges, massive forests, and other geographic barriers
>Zul'Farrak was basically isolated from the rest of the Empire

why the fuck didn't they rebel at some point?

>>50305692
>destroying the beauty of Crystalsong
>flooding the exposed Titan machinery beneath the Storm Peaks
these are still bad

>>50359817
Ecohippie pls.

>>50355569
I mean, I always thought it worked like this:

>use magic to create and fuel a fire
>not some spirtual fire or whatever, just normal combustion
>surround it in an 'envelope' of magic to keep the fireball semi-coherent until it hits the target
>throw it at the unlucky schmuck in question
>it bursts from the envelope, smothering your enemies in flame

tapping into the Elemental planes seems real fuckin' risky, especially the Firelands of all places.

>>50356536
probably a more nuclear or sickly green, to contrast with the Druids foresty green.

>>50356286
>At no point is green listed because the Druids have monopoly on green.
Actually, that's warlocks. Fel magic is most commonly portrayed as green or purple. Warlocks will fight you for their green fire spells.

>>50360096
>tapping into the Elemental planes seems real fuckin' risky, especially the Firelands of all places.
Which is why shamans are the only ones to deal with that shit. They make a career out of communing with the spirits.

someone make a new thread before this one dies. I'm mobileposting at work and won't have time to do it before 404

>>50360357
New thread
>>50360490
>>50360490
>>50360490