Warhammer Fantasy: Fix Chaos edition

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P-pls respond

>Liber Chaotica

Casual Warhammer fan here. What's Liber Chaotica?

>>50297678
It's the big fluff/art book that compiles the 4 chaos god specific fluff/art books. Rare in print but common in pdf, but very much worth the print edition.

>>50297678
Best sourcebook on chaos and the nature of the gods and magic. It actually portrays chaos as, well, chaos, and not just big guys in spiky armor who torture and kill. A few things have been retconned, but 95% of it is still applicable to fantasy chaos

>>50297223
Chaos doesn't need fixed.
They won.

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>>50298454
>It actually portrays chaos as, well, chaos, and not just big guys in spiky armor who torture and kill.

This doesn't really bother me. The way I see it, there's the odd sorcerers and cultists who understand the deeper mysteries of the gods and how to harness the power of chaos and then there's the unwashed barbarian hordes who just know there's an angry war demon who wants blood and skulls.

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>>50297223

Every time someone makes a chaos army they 'fix chaos.' Adding personal touches and unique personalities is so unlike chaos, yeah? For the most part in fluff, their leaders are 'big spiky badass coming to kill us all!.' But a fluffy army is different, adding the individuality and uniqueness that actually shows chaos is never the same, as opposed to just constantly telling the player that. A player made army really brings home the mutability of chaos and makes chaos all the more awesome for it.

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>>50297223

Got myself this chap from eBay. My only regret is the mold lines.

>>50300040
I really want to get Ulli and Marquand. They'd make perfect character models for WFRP, only wish I had gotten them before they went oop.

>>50298615
I just wish they'd show more variety. Everything always leads to some extreme conclusion. Why no Khorne NOTBretonnians who are honorable warriors that can live otherwise sane lives? Or Slaanesh nation given over completely to the arts that don't involve flaying children?

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I'm following what total warhammer includes as canon and what not for fun and, with the release of the wood elves imminent, amber has been introduced as sort of a big deal for their end game about fixig the oak of ages; I wanted to ask what do you think this amber is and how may it work considering that there's very little amount of the stuff pretty much everywhere?

my initial theory is that it's what remains of the ramifications of the worldwide athel loren forest, a sort of black box where the receding spirit of the forest sealed the local energy/souls/memory to not lose it forever.

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>>50302465
Just to be clear, it's not Amber as in the wind of magic?

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>>50302528
it's described as a limited currency, so I assume it's more derived than the wind the beasts itself.

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>cut pistols
>put shield

>file chainteeth
>???

>fantasy tzaangors

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>>50302638

>buy Silver Tower Tzaangors
>???
>Fantasy tzaangors....

>>50302638
I'm curious to see if they'll have fantasy weapons in the box. Seems strange not to go for the multi-game sales like they do with daemons.

>>50302833
but they are only 3 poses

>>50302638
Did tzaangors exist in the Warhammer fantasy world? Not just as ones offs amongst the Beastmen, but full on herds (flocks???) like in 40k and AoS?

>>50303799
>but full on herds (flocks???) like in 40k and AoS?
You mean units? yes like there were pestigors and khornogors there were also slaangors and tzaangors albeit the last 2 didn't get official miniatures.

I don't know about whole armies though, GW has always marginalised the beastmen and in oldhammer there was more of a warband focus than an army-one.

>>50303799
>>50304238
>I don't know about whole armies though
Well you could give your heroes the mark of Tzeentch essentially giving you martially gifted low level sorcerers. Then the units with the appropriate mark generated additional magic dice for you.
You could totally have a Minotaur wizard leading your herd back in 6th.
Also supplement that with choices from the mortal chaos warriors and summon tzeentch demons iirc.

Maybe not the most powerful list but definitely possible.

>>50302528
>>50302588
>>50302465
wood elf warpstone

>>50302338
>Everything always leads to some extreme conclusion
Well it's the point of Chaos. Emotions without control tend to lead to extremes.
If you can have control and chaos at the same time, then everything is chaos, so it loses a bit of its impact IMO.
I wish we had more references to minor gods and independant demons like in the earlier fluff instead of a narrative centered on the big 4, though.

>>50303214
Back in my day we used greenstuff for that kind of thing.

>>50304394
>Back in my day we used greenstuff for that kind of thing.
If the solution is greenstuff 40k tzaangors' open stances and less saturated surfaces are the better choice again.

>>50304499
>and less saturated surfaces are the better choice again.
Not sure what that is supposed to mean to be honest.
But turning the head from left to right is an easy way to make the same pose look very different.
It also looks like you might be able to switch the torsos above the belts on their midriff, with a little careful cutting.

You don't even have to do any major reposing on the arms or legs to get more out of the models.

The biggest problem would likely be to find weapons and shields that look as ornate as the Silver Tower ones.
If you got a set of those you could mold cast your own though. Big thing for a beginner, should be easy enough for a seasoned modeller though.

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Hope they add old school dryads to the game at some point.
I want dangerous sexy treewomen in my army.

>>50304554
>Not sure what that is supposed to mean to be honest.
there's less shit slapped on them in poor words, they are in a more blank state that could encourage getting creative in personally made additions and conversions.

the weapons are the big problem if someone wants to keep the same feel of the silver tower's ones, I admit.

>>50304599
>there's less shit slapped on them in poor words
Yeah, the Solver Tower guys have helmets and very ornate weapons and shields.
The bodies themselves are about the same though.


Man thinking about it I'm really tempted. I always toyed with the idea of doing a Tzeentch beastmen army in 6th.
But now I wouldn't even know how to base my models anymore.
Do I put Ungors on 20 or 25mm squares or do I say 'fuck it, I'm never gonna play WHFB again anyway' and just base them on rounds?

Thanquol Number One.

Hey!
Greyseer Number One
Hey!
Greyseer Number One

Now listen-listen closely
Here's a little lesson-lesson in skaven trickery
This is going down in Plagueskaven's history
If you wanna be Greyseer number one
You have to chase a slayer on the run
Just follow-follow my moves, and sneak around
Be careful not-not to make a sound
Shh!
Do not touch that!

Greyseer Number One
Hey!
Greyseer Number One
Greyseer Number One

(cont.)

>>50305116
Ha ha ha!
Now look-look at this rat ogre, that I just found
When say I go, be ready to throw
(Gotrek kills it)
Uh, lets try something else
Now watch and learn, here is the deal
He'll mutate on this warpstone peel!
(Skaven sniffs it)
Ha ha ha! -gasp- What are you doing?!

Greyseer Number one!
Hey!

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>>50302465
>>50304587
I really hope they change with the seasons, both aesthetically and mechanically. I want to see the difference between a Wood Elf army in winter vs the height of summer.

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>>50305264
I just want the seasons in and to do something with battle conditions.

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>>50297223
>Fix Chaos

The simplest way would be to move attention away from Chaos Warriors and toward Chaos Cults, which usually have more interesting motivations and more complicated relationships with their patron deity. Also might be interesting to see cults create their own Chaos gods using the will of their members - like occult egregores. Reintroduce other Chaos gods that got scrapped, like Malal.

>>50302638
>>50302833
I don't really enjoy the bird motif. I liked how, at least on the lexicanum, Tzaangors were described as having the colors and patterns of tigers or leopards.

Birds feel comparatively cheap - yes, I know that Tzeentch has the Lord of Changes and all that, but you'd think they'd mix it up a bit.

>>50305264
IIRC, you get orion's army to go on a wild hunt once every 20 turns when you get full on SANIC movement range and nigh unbreakable morale.

>>50306458
I only hope I can forge some kind of defensive pact or alliance with them because FUCK dealing with that many fast cavalry units. Even dealing with a few Marauder Horsemen is tiring,

>>50305653
I don't think you necessarily need to 'move away' as Warriors to me represents times when shit is hitting the fan. The Norscan, Kurgan, Hung and other tribes unite under an Undivided Champion of the gods, and the Warriors and Chosen march along side Dragon Ogres, Trolls and other monstrosities to lay waste to the soft southern realms. After it inevitably falls apart due to logistics, infighting, and possibly military defeat, the Horde scatters and things quiet down for the most part with cults going back to their hidden dens to plot for the next war. There's plenty info on cults in the WFRP books and making your own is quite fun, a few I made for my own campaigns such as time travelling cultists who hoped to stall the End Times to prevent an even worse future from happening or another that steals the eyes of their victims.

Anyone ever tried anything with endhammer?
How well does it work as a fantasy post-apocalyptic setting in stuff like paper and pen roleplaying?

Talking about chaos I never understood what people felt was wrong with the setting of having a major chaos invasion happen at set intervals. Chaos is as much a force majore as it is a concrete army, and in real life massive hordes of horse archers riding out from the steppes and raiding everything every 50 years of so was completely normal.

Maybe change it up a bit each time and have different types of chaotic forces have a go each time.

>>>50306709
>The Norscan, Kurgan, Hung
Good examples of different types of chaos forces that would make interesting invading forces.

>>50306793
That's quite prevalent in the Total War game. There's an event called Chaos Rising where Chaos corruption gets higher and the Norscans raid south. They were made up of mostly Marauder units, so footmen and horsemen, supported by some monsters and warhounds. I spent so many turns running around my coastline to butcher these marauders and it turned out to be the calm before the storm. Basically it was Surtha Lenk's invasion prior to Archaon's.

Personally I think the problem with major invasions happening every so often is that they seem to be getting more and more frequent. You have one at the dawn of the setting, then three thousand years later, then two thousand years later, then three hundred years, then two hundred. Some of the more learned people in the setting take this as a sign that there will be a time when there are invasions every decade, then every year, then non-stop 'there are no brakes on this rape train'. Not only should it take the population of the wastes around the Realm of Chaos, but also that Chaos is Chaos and shouldn't have much in the way of patterns. Make it a bit more random.

I heard that there are Skeggi Marauders in White Dwarf 307, but a cursory look over the files pastebin links don't show it saved. Anyone have a clue where to look next, or know if it's even worth checking out?

>>50306718
Endhammer died faster than pokemon go, m8.

>>50306709
It's less about moving away from chaos warriors as it is giving them diversity. A slaaneshi host could look like BDSM cenobites who tape and kill everyone they encounter, but it should also be able to look like an army of glittering, gaudy Knights who dedicate their lives to the thrill of the charge and perfecting their kill strokes. It doesn't have to be big psycho men in spiky armor following 1 of 4 very broad yet very repetitive themes

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>>50307089
That's also represented but I think it's entirely because you need to limit the model range. Chaos already has so much shit while other races were completely neglected, but you still have to make it that you don't have fifteen different models for the same unit. Not to mention conversions are for that very purpose. My friend used some Knights of the Realm I didn't need to make his Chaos Knights, saying that they used to be on the Quest before they fell. He took some Chaos Warriors weapons, helmets and shields, added a few armour plates here and there, a gross green paintjob and bam, Chaos Knights of Nurgle that despaired at being 70 years old and still on the Grail Quest.

>>50307050
>>50306718
Endhammer is basically dead, yeah, but I wouldn't mind contributing more to it. I've just been so busy this semester. Not sure what part I'd work on next.

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>>50307122
>>50307089
>>50306793

This is why I prefer smaller scale settings like Mordheim and some WHRP -campaings, where chaos is limited to a more reasonable power levels, instead of just throwing out a million chaos knights and calling it a day.

I mean in Mordheim you have your Carnival of Chaos that has more flavour than a dozen Archaon-end-of-the-world -level invasions.

>>50308574
The smaller the scale, the more detailed an individual soldier can be. If there's a horde of a million men, there's no time to focus on Hvdar the lowly marauder.

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>>50309397
Plus, humbler enemies are just more compelling. You can focus on their foibles and human traits in a way you can't with some edgy superpower antichrist figure.

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>>50309427
Not to say that powerful antagonists are bad, but they need to be introduced gradually so that defeating them, or at least facing them, feels earned. My players have gone up against some pretty powerful enemies but it was either relative to their power, or something meant to scare them into not fighting it in the first place.

>>50309497
I love how hilariously overbuilt Ubersreik's bridge is.

>>50310465
When you contract dwarfs to build you something, you shouldn't expect something humble.

>>50310612
Hard to sap, at least. I love how in Vermintide it's got an entire slum built beneath it. That's gotta piss the dwarfs off.

>>50310722
They must be there to find that fabled dwarf treasure.

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>>50314134
Indeed.

I wish the Empire didn't use British accents, it sounds really silly and out of place considering how German literally everything else is about them.

>>50315031
Mod that gives the Empire serious, non-silly voices with German accents when?

>>50315031
the empire is better with british voices desu.

>>50315060
I'd be okay with silly, even stereotypical, so long as they were German. At no point did I ever imagine Imperial soldiers having British accents before I played a Warhammer video game, namely Mark of Chaos. MoC still had much better voice acting than Total War: Warhammer, but still very British. Everyone in TW sounds kinda the same.

>>50315031
It sounds old-fashioned and noble; blame cultural stereotypes shifting towards German being the accent of evil more than idiocy on the developer's part. It's also easier to find actors that can fake a British accent than a good German one.

As fun as this is, and how pumped up it gets me, do you really want it in Total War?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3lxR5I19gU

>>50315252
Not him, but honestly, I really liked those speeches.

>>50302638
Theres no need to file the sword, except the engine black on the back. Just paint the chainsaw teeth as stone, or bone. ie like Aztecs, or Pacific Islanders.

>>50298505
Only if you believe in the incorrect AoS timeline, when everyone knows the Blood Bowl timeline is the true one

>>50315252
Plus Creative Assembly is a British company.

>>50302338
Chaos is a slippery slope. People tend to start of regular, but are eventually perveted by their Gods to extremes since extremes are what the gods feed off

>>50315316
Honestly when the voice actor would start screaming about enemies daring to attack the Reich, it got me furious at the NPCs - how dare they attack my glorious empire? Seriously got me immersed and made me play better.

But I don't really think it'd be fitting for Warhammer - it has less of a heroic sound, I guess? Warhammer, for all its grittiness, is supposed to be a faint light threatening to be overwhelmed by dark.

What if Sigmar wasn't traped in the vortex, and was able to freely move about the heavens? How different wod shit be if Sigmar could intervene more often?

Is it OK to play as Kislev?

What's the army that plays most like the Tau?

>>50317589
the practical tau of "form a line and shoot heavy weapons till it's dead" or the theoretical tau about gorilla tactics with superior firepower?
the dwarfs for the first, the wood elves for the second; but it's difficult in fantasy to go with shooting only.

>>50317652

Would High Elves be a more balanced approach?

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>>50315326
Didn't think about that.

And yet I've painted a lot of lizardmen.

>>50317683
High elves don't have as much as a focus on shooting, the tau playstyle isn't quite there.

>>50317715

I was thinking of something with mounted archery, bows/guns, and some lancers.

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>>50315698
>Warhammer, for all its grittiness, is supposed to be a faint light threatening to be overwhelmed by dark.
That's grimdark
But grimderp is also important
https://youtu.be/kVE-mncKFsA

>>50317747
all 3 armies of elves have those things, high and dark elves also have ballistas while the wood elves have flying mounted archers.
dwarfs don't have cavalry or lancers, but have cannons and gyrocopters.

>>50317758
Sigvald is an example of chaos done right

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>>50317343
Why wouldn't it be?

>>50306709
>>50306793
>>50308574
So what I'm getting from this discussion is that Chaos could be more interesting if it were composed of varied Norscan tribes, Chaos Warriors with distinctive traits inspired by their patron deity and Chaos Cults with different motivations and schemes. In a hypothetical 9th edition, do you think these ought to be separate armies or part of one big Chaos faction?

What does it take to bring down a no name greater daemon? What monsters or characters have a chance at beating one in a fight?

>>50322089
There were a few Warhammer Chronicles articles about different Norscan tribes including illustrations of tribe specific tattoos and scarring.

The fluff is there, you just have to use it.

>>50322126
Sure, but I think the discussion we were having had to do with the tabletop versions of Chaos never fully taking advantage of the fluff.

>>50322095
Very powerful magic weapons, sorcery, a whole lot of 'fucking pissed off' like that Bretonnian baron who slew not just one, but TWO Bloodthirsters. Khorne was so impressed by his rage that he whisked him away to the Realm of Chaos.

But generally speaking the only beings that could take on a Greater Daemon one on one and call it a fair fight are the Star Dragons, maybe the Dragon Ogre Shaggoths. Everyone else needs to be kitted out the ass to even stand a chance against them. Exceptions being godlike heroes like Aenarion, Kroak, etc.

>>50322095
A powerful dragon could do it, but most creatures are going to need some heavy divine firepower.

Gotrek and Felix beat a Bloodthirster together - he wasn't a no-name, though. Both of them had divine weapons of incredible power. Gotrek also beat the shit out of a Keeper of Secrets pretty much on his own. Again, he was still using Grimnir's axe.

>>50322095
A good, trusty cannon

>all the lumberfoots ITT

disgusting

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>>50323093
>>LUMBAFOOTS
>>GET OUT OF MY FOREST
>>REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

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>>50323093
Shut the fuck-fuck up, elf-thing.

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>CA is going to expand Bretonnia roster for their upcoming playable Bretonnia DLC

What lore-based stuff would you like to see?

What new stuff would you like to see?

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>>50323618
All I want are foot knights and people that say 'foot knights are unfluffy' are retarded and don't know their lore. And more options for heroes, such as Paladins with the Knight's/Questing/Grail Vow as well as Virtues of the Chivalric Knight being a permanent upgrade that you choose at, say, level 5 or 10.

>>50323618
Grail reliquaries and grail pilgrims.

>>50324190
Aren't those already in the 6th ed. Bretonnian army book?

>>50324263
They're not in TW:W though, are they?

>>50324284
They will be, I'm pretty sure Bretonnia is getting its whole roster since it's so small compared to the other books as they didn't get the power creep books.

>>50320843

What is like to play as Kislev?

>>50324284
The point is that in addition to all the units from 6th ed. Bretonnia, they will be creating new units unique to the game.

We don't know what they'll be yet.

So we will 100% certain be getting Reliquaries and Pilgrims.

>>50324336
Full of national pride, sad and kvas.

>>50324357
>We’ll save some kvas for after the fight, sing hey kalinka hey! Just make sure to survive the night, sing hey kalinka hey! It’s cold enough to crack the stones, sing hey kalinka key! Just one more kvas to warm the bones, sing hey
kalinka hey!

>>50323618
My worry is that they won't really be rounded - Bretonnia on the tabletop has such a cavalry focus that their infantry and missile troops are barely worthwhile. And in a game like Total War, with a focus on sieges as much as open battles, that would be a problem.

I would like damsels, decent enough men-at-arms, dismounted knights to act as heavy infantry, and maybe some new stuff to make Bretonnia feel more special, like hippogryphs. Grail Knights are always a must, and they should look really cool, maybe vaguely fae or Arthurian. I dunno if Total Warhammer has mercenaries, but Bretonnia should be allowed to take them to help round themselves out.

>>50325230
Considering how most settlements don't have walls, that isn't a really big problem.

>>50325263
True that, and you can just starve them inside if it's that big an issue. I just at least keep some infantry on hand supported by missiles. Siege towers forward, take the towers, open the gate, let the cavalry do the remaining work.

IF they have a lot of wall troops, then it's a safer bet to starve them, wait until their troop numbers are culled in two, and claim victory.

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>>50324502
HAS CHAOS GONE TOO FAR?

(bear cavalry mod)

>>50325230
I'd like to see more mythological creatures that stick to the medieval theme.

I think gargoyles could work as a new creature unit.

>>50325492
Spirits like ghostly knights and foot soldiers would be nice as well. They were teased in the 8th edition rule book but because everyone at the studio hated Bretonnia they didn't release the book that was apparently finished.

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>>50323485
FRESSSSSSSHHH SSSSSACRIFICCCCCESSSSSS FOR SSSSSSSOTEK

>>50325491

Those are some odd looking bears

>>50323618
Just give us their old fucking roster. Bretonnia used to basically be france from warhammer historical, with foot knights and shit.

>>50325905
>They were teased in the 8th edition rule book but because everyone at the studio hated Bretonnia they didn't release the book that was apparently finished.

Where can I get my hands on this?

>>50326240
They're getting all that and more.

>>50326311
You'd have to work at GW, but for all I know they probably destroyed it and killed the guy that wrote it.

>>50325905
It'd be cool if they made them look old fashioned - Bretonnia right now is wearing transitional armor, so having ghostly Bretonnians look like they're from the 11th century would be awesome. Gives them a faint Saxon or Celtic flair.

>>50326240
I don't entirely want that - at that point they start to become generic medieval faction. Even Arthurian medieval is better than that. And I don't think GW or CA would go to all the trouble it would take to include cool French things, instead of just splashing some French paint on.

>>50326610
That'd be great, they could look like Norman knights or First Crusaders.

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>>50320106
plus, TW:WH gives us so many reaction images.

>>50326701
>>50326610
I'd suggest a Frankish or Mercian aesthetic. If not, I'd go with Norman since Edward the Longshanks was obsessed with King Arthur.

Bring any lances to bear?

>>50327851
Could be cool. If we're getting entirely new units, I'd suggest some kind of heavy infantry. Call them Montfort Siegebreakers, the largest soldiers around, both high and low born, clad in plate and mail, wielding tall shield and some kind of unique weapon, perhaps a heavy spear/halberd that allows them to take hits and then switch to dealing heavy damage. Having to deal with the Empire more than anyone, Montfort Siegebreakers are adept at dealing with foreign tactics, incorporating them and using them against the enemy. Quite rare and slow, but near impossible to move when they've selected a place on the battlefield to hold.

Empire got a Monstrous Cavalry unit before Bretonnia did, so why not give Bretonnia some kind of elite infantry?

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>>50326701
If nothing else, I'd love the knights-errant to have more leather. Imagine some lovely looking cuir bouilli - you can carve into that stuff more than metal.

>>50328712
Other aesthetics involve a High Medieval look. The arbalesters in Aguirre's Bretonnia mod gave my campaign something of a Berserk (Golden Age, obviously) aesthetic.

Constructive criticism here, but Montfort Siegebreakers sound unlikely on the high and low born angle. The Bretonnians believe in serfdom and peasantry and all that. It's about as likely as giving Knight status to a bastard, or a real title to a border prince.

In Bretonnia's feudal society,what COULD work would be sellswords equipped with foreign weapons to deal with foreign problems. Knights may fight with honor on the battlefield, but that doesn't do that well against a line of spearmen locking ranks and bracing. Handgunners do. Although, to even entrust the fight to such men would sully Bretonnian honor, wouldn't it.

>>50328906
Then highborn officers with lowborn soldiers? It's less of an honour and more of a punishment, or some kind of act a knight takes in penance of a greater crime, but can't or won't take the Grail Quest. Sort of like a Dirty Dozen kind of deal.

Foreign legions could be interesting as well, like Estalian vassals that serve as light cavalry or pike auxiliaries.

>>50328992
That does make a lot more sense, the noble is without horse and forced to fight with commoners; the commoners are perhaps strong and loyal serfs that are observed and picked by their local lord?

Estalian and Tilean mercenaries would make an interesting angle, as both use mercenaries all the time, Tilea in particular. To fight in Bretonnia's border wars would make a proving ground for future contracts in the conflicts down South. Therefore, mercenaries would be in ample supply. Hoping to bleed on the battlefield - or get paid - so the noble's blood of blue doesn't.

>>50329100
But Bretonnia has traditionally avoided the use of mercenaries as unchivalric; it was only in 8e that the tune was changed, I believe. Which I honestly think was a fluffy, but stupid decision, since imagine how much more loved as a faction they could be with some bits from other armies to make them more viable on the tabletop.

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How are the Vampire Counts going to be affected by the Bretonnian DLC? Is there going to be a fleshed out Mousilion?

>>50329290
I hope so.

When I ran my Bretonnia campaign for the first time, I was disappointed on how Mousilion was literally a Vampire Counts reskin, even the zombies had Empire clothes.

>>50329245
Not so much mercenaries as vassals from another area fulfilling their obligation in exchange for protection by a nation as powerful as Bretonnia.

I think the biggest problem with Bretonnia is that it's very mono culture whereas everyone else has variations within, such as the High Elfman kingdoms or the Imperial provinces. Knights of the Grail shows the dukedoms to have differences, the kind that should be present in the army book and it's units. Traditionalist Bastonne, mercantile L'Anguille, fey Quennelles, fortress Montfort, etc. CA should look to the people of these dukedoms and the foes they'd regularly face when they come up with units.

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>>50329725
Gisoreux best province, hands down. It's slightly fae, fairly close to the Empire, not too far from the dwarves, has a lot of geographical and cultural variety, and they're literally a people of song.

>>50329725
*High Elf, goddamn auto correct.

>>50329725
I think an interesting way to do this is to have some provinces controlled less by the chivalric nobility, more by the other classes. A province primarily of peasants or merchants would be an interesting change.

>come to 4chan after weekend
>oh noes, friday WHFB thread dead (big surprise)
>search for WHFB thread
>find WHFB thread
>feel relief
>have no idea what to talk about in it

What do you guys think of Skavenblight Scramblers? I finally found a source of good Gutter Runners and models for Mordheim warband!

>>50329725
>fey Quennelles
go on....
tell me about fey quenelles.

what is best Dwarfish creation, and why is it Empire?

>>50329299
Have you tried out the reskin mod? It was made by one of us IIRC.

>>50331966
>us
/twg/
creme de la bear.

>>50331966
Really? That's cool. The Mousillon mod is a must-have.

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tzaangor kit confirmed for having non futuristic weapon options

>>50332271
huzzah!
oh, i don't collect any chaos
oh well, still nice

>>50332108
Kek, yeah I actually meant 4chan.

>>50330342
But why would a province be primarily of peasants or merchants, instead of a noble class? That's not how the Bretonnian system works.

>>50332271
Glad for you Chaosfags. Tzeentch may be shit tier in fluff, but the models were neglected too long.

Hopefully Slaanesh gets Gors too.

So, how are you going to make your wood elf army?
Shooty glass cannons?
Fangorn forest Fury?
elf waifu casters?
http://wiki.totalwar.com/w/The_Elven_Council

>>50334642
>>The Wood Elves may have fled their homelands in Ulthuan for a life in Athel Loren
I don't think so, Tim.

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>>50334642
Rage of the mourning woods

>>50335533
They abandoned the homeland in its darkest hour.

>>50336025
The wording is just weird, since it was the other way around. The Asur who became the Asrai know Elthin Arvan to be their home, many having never seen Ulthuan before. To them, they were the ones that were abandoned.

>>50336363
They also had a pretty good reason to want no part, since the dumb fucking high elven nobility caused a war that they then lost, ruining life for the continental elves and leaving them open to be sneak attacked by the false flagging faggot who caused the war.

Worst Phoenix King ever.

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>>50334642
>wood elves don't have creepy alien eyes

day one mod

>>50334157
>Tzeentch may be shit tier in fluff

Tzeentch is objectively best Chaos God.

>>50336363
There'd only been one generation born off Ulthuan by that point.

>>50336779
No they didn't. They were called to fight Malekith, who was never not their enemy. The homeland fought the Dwarfs.

But yeah. Fuck all things Caledor after Caledor I.

>>50337387
By which you mean he's the Mary-est Sue, since literally everything is because of him and he backstabs literally everyone because he's a prick.

At least Khorne and Slaanesh have favored servants. Tzeentch is a dick to those he "likes", all his blessings are double-edged and you suffer more on his side than against him.

>>50333341
The noble class is always in the minority. A province is never primarily composed of nobles. Peasants and merchants would always outnumber them. The only question is how much dominance they exercise politically, economically and culturally. In some provinces, this would be very advanced, while in others other provinces it might be less so. For example, a province by the sea might have a powerful merchant class. They would never be as influential as other merchants of the Old World, but by Bretonnian standards they could be quite powerful, perhaps because the nobility prefers to cooperate with them rather than compete for power and risk insurrection.

>>50337469
tzeentch perfectly embodies chaos until writers start wanking and give it logical wills and purposes (the "just as planned")

>>50337670
Tzeentch makes the rest of Chaos redundant. If everything that happens is according to his will, he is the only free will that exists and Khorne, Slaanesh, and Nurgle are only puppets.

Tzeentch and Archaon both are the worst part of Chaos lore. They remove contradiction and make it a faction rather than an unknowable Ouroboros with infinite heads.

>>50337431
There had been colonies since the days when Malekith was still loyal(ish). That's several generations of elves that have never left Elthin Arvan, hence their unwillingness to leave.

>>50337469
Tzeentch is not excessively idealized. Tzeentch represents ambition, and for that reason he influences anybody who uses their intellect to get ahead. That means he's influential, but not that he's behind absolutely everything. He and his followers believe that he is, but that's objectively untrue. He's not even the most powerful of the four primary Chaos Gods.

>and he backstabs literally everyone because he's a prick

Right, he's the god of ambition. Of course he's a prick. This is like complaining that Khorne is aggressive or that Nurgle is gross.

>Tzeentch is a dick to those he "likes", all his blessings are double-edged and you suffer more on his side than against him.

Sounds like the quintessential folkloric demon. There is nothing wrong with this.

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>>50325491

What the flying fuck am I looking at.

>>50337431
Even one generation is enough, and they'd been around longer than that. Especially when the homeland didn't seem to do all that much for them, I can't blame them for wanting to stay behind.

>>50337579
That is true in cities like Bordelaux and L'Anguille, but even then the nobles are given lip service and still essentially hold sway. It's never going to be as crazy as things will get in the Empire, since these coastal cities rarely have much land/rural influence. It's also fairly fragile, since if the nobles decide they don't like it they can smash it without any real resistance, since they control the knights - the best warriors - and most of the land, and the state religion is also on their side.

Basically, while there is a little leeway, it's not enough to really make a huge difference, or really inspire much in the way of special units. At best you get a city militia of sorts, which could be like the militias in Medieval 2 Total War - well equipped, but not well trained. Sort of like Men-At-Arms but with better armor and weapons, maybe.

>>50338243
Burr cavly

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Anyone onow of any spider miniatures with a really good face? I want something genuinely creepy, like pic related, but they all look pretty cartoonish especially Citadel ones.

Only decent one I've seen is the Otherworld Miniatures Giant Spider, but its too small for an Arachnarok and too big for Riders.

>>50337375
Not all wood elves have eyes like Kerillian. Jesus, fucking racist.

>>50337469
Tzeentch is hobbled by opposing even himself, I assume, for laughs/the challenge.

None of the Chaos Gods is that good at their job. Slaanesh is too busy jerking off her futa dick and snorting baby powder (made from actual babies) to get anything done. His champion of champions is a net negative power sink. Khorne is a raging retard who could have won by now if his forces didn't absolutely always disintegrate into backstabbing and autocannibalism. Nurgle is just a fucking loser god for the world's worst losers, and spends most of his time rotting deeper into his own shit or childishly lashing out at random at people who reject his gifts.

>>50338243
Bear cavalry, the modder used griffons as a base model. The only alternatives for base models are: Dragons, Horses, Pega...si(?) and Warthogs.

Another modder actually used warthogs for bear cavalry, which looks better imo.

>>50337885
>If everything that happens is according to his will, he is the only free will that exists and Khorne, Slaanesh, and Nurgle are only puppets.
tzeentch does not control will as much as it IS will.

as I said before, people should stop humanising the gods with purposes and logics of a mortal.

>>50339300
That's boring.
Tzeentch is boring.

That's like if Chaos can only fight if Khorne wills it, or if Nurgle is the one who decides who loses in every meaning of the word.

>>50339482
Everything is part of Tzeentch's plan because just as planned, but the end goal of his plan is just change itself. Anything about him controlling everything is just because almost everything - even Nurgle, sometimes - changes things just by doing anything.

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>>50338458
I was messing around with an idea like this during End Times but I never got around to finishing it.

>>50340889
Damn, that looks a lot better.

>>50340481
So basically Just As Planned is a meme, and attributing any action to Tzeentch is bullshit because he works just as hard against everything as he does for it resulting in a net influence of nothing.

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>tfw you discovered the glories of WHFB after it's ded and subsequently you have nobody to play with

>>50297223
Quick, convince me to work on my Warriors of Chaos before I just get lazy and sell them off.

>>50341722
WFRP on roll20, or try to find a group irl.

>>50341781
Paint them up and then see if you want to sell them. If you do a good job you'll get more for them.

>>50341644
Exactly. Sure, his cults and followers might manage to make some victories and capture some territories, but it's also in his interest to have them defeated before they win, or make sure they're crushed afterwards to keep from growing stagnant, and force them to have some new vengeance to hope to achieve.

It's like how Nurgle is like 'lol all death and despair pleases me' and Khorne is all 'lol all anger and warfare pleases me' and Slaanesh goes 'lol all desire and pleasure pleases me.' They'd just be winning by sake of existing if that were all it took.

>>50341963
Except the lore attributes almost everything to him.

I think AoS is the first time he's been allowed to be wrong and not omniscient, and even then they gave him "removed Slaanesh from the Great Game because he can".

Tzeentch is literally "Here, let me just take a big shit on your lore" the character.

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>tfw wanna buy Diaz Daemonettes that are only for sale for a week, but also want to buy Blood Bowl teams that aren't out yet and want the free shipping

>>50342018
I'd just blame that on poor writing on AoS's part. It seems to set up a lot of things as THE BEST, especially if GW happens to be selling new things related to that thing.

>>50342018
He's been that way since, at the very least, 7th edition, where he threw Kairos Fateweaver into the Well of Eternity because he wasn't sure if he would survive the trip. Now one of his minions knows more about the universe than he does.

Starting a WFRP 2e game for some friends, and I want to start them off as residents of an Ostermark town, who join together to go on adventures helping their friends, family, and neighbouring towns/cities.
All the while making some money.

But I'm kinda stumped for a first adventure.

What about sticking them on the border of the Great Forest, and sending them out to find out what happened to a courier from a neighbouring town who was supposed to make it to them the better part of a week ago?
He was eaten by a small scouting group of Beastmen.

Then rolling that into a few more sessions about getting assitance and hunting down and killing them, or at least finding out how big the threat is?
Before then sending them off to go on more episodic adventures through the province?

>>50344133
Sounds simple enough, but maybe the courier's fate open so the players have something to affect right off the bat.

Here's a suggestion to spice it up; a Gave/Bray Shaman capable of infecting/controlling the minds of non-mutants. Not necessarily anyone and everyone, but those in his grasp, say a courier that's been missing for a few days? It gives them a problem they can't immediately smash to death and may even make them a bit paranoid if they start to think that anyone might be some kind of spy. Then after this guy is dealt with you can branch off from there, maybe reveal where this antagonist gained this power.

>>50344205
Sounds good. A Gave would probably be more inclined to try to turn humans into unwitting spies to find weak settlements than a Bray Shaman.
And the suspicion of the courier (and perhaps others) would give rise to potential for more investigation.
The source of the power could also be Wyrdstone enhancing the Gave's natural chaos blessing into full blown Sorcery.
Meaning that there's likely a source of wyrdstone about (or at least one Mordheim Caraven having been ransacked).

I'm liking this, thanks for the idea man.

>>50338458
>creepy
>posts a puppy-grade adorable adorableness

you what? just look at those eyes? shrek cat ain't got shit on this fluffy cutie

>>50325491
if that's bears, my right hand is Sophie Turner

>>50323618
huge centrepiece knight monster
on seven-headed dragon, one head for each province
it's also not reptilian dragon, but sorta like hippogriph dragon - horse heads, feather wings


and huge ghostly Lady, with lots of detail and stuff


old Bretonnia is so boring

>>50344133
Beastmen are quite strong opponents, and characters who just started are weak as fuck. Also WFRP has high mortality: be careful what you put your players against... when they're around their second career you can start letting do more "heroic" deeds, but at the start keep it low, they're just average humans.

>>50346316
I was mostly just planning for the Beastmen to be some of the weakest of their kind. The ones they won't give too shits about if they fuck up and get killed by Ostermark patrols.

Shitty, scrawny fuckers given scouting duty.

>>50346328
It's fine then, there's a whole subrace of Beastmen who're basically their scouts. It's those short satyrs with small horns, don't remember their name

>>50342018
Literally any of the gods would have one of the others removed from the great game if they could. Slaanesh was getting too uppity and would have eventually surpassed the other 3, which is why tzeentch allowed the warhammer world aka one of his favorite games to be destroyed. It was all 5D warp chess to get slaanesh weakened while also bringing in gods he knew would upset the balance of the great game while also being weak enough for him to control. And look at the current state of AOS now. Due to the elves getting destroyed but also forming 4 new gods, slaanesh is gone for now. Thanks to trapping Sigmar in the vortex and saving him from being weakened like the rest of the gods, Nurgle and Khorne got BTFO. Look at the current state of AoS, tzeentch is winning because he's smart enough to use other beings without trying to corrupt them to his cause like a fucking idiot

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>>50346337
Ungors.

>>50306793

>Good examples of different types of chaos forces that would make interesting invading forces.

This was one of the interesting things about Tamurkhan, since it was at least hinted at that not all of the tribes were the same.

>>50322089

Warriors of Chaos are for the most part seemingly composed of mostly various Norscan tribes. Part of the problem is that for whatever reason decided to not make this a theme of Warriors of Chaos and instead went with the broad brush strokes the things the various tribes might have in common and each of the gods. Didn't help that they eventually stopped printing the book that looked at Chaos in depth for some reason, so outside of maybe the RPG books you probably wouldn't know this stuff.

>>50322095

Plausibility

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>>50338576
I just remember all the old art of elves had them with alien eyes. Really made them seem alien and distant, very cool. I force that image of them when I do WFRP.

>>50323618
I was reading through the bretonnia article on the wiki the other day and saw a passage that said grail monasteries were a thing and that the monks in them fought on foot, so yeah, that would be cool

>>50347727
>tfw when Brets get weaboo fist-fighting monk
>FRENCH weaboo fist-fighting monks

>>50347787
>Leaping Frog Style
>Raging Escargot Strike

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>>50347787
Nobody said anything about fist fighting.
Footknights are a thing.

>>50349270
Why would monks fight as knights?

>>50349677
because they're medieval monks, not weaboo monks

>>50297223
According to wikipedia, Man O War had rules for pirate fleets but I can't find the rules.

>>50347156
Me too. I will be modding this day one. I refuse to have my Wood Elves any other way.

>>50350315
Elves have both types of eyes, why settle for one?

>>50349270
Monks can fight with flails, which is where clerics get their theme from, iirc. Weapons that can still hurt but don't technically 'draw blood' like a sword or axe would. A skirmishing unit with light or no armour, wielding flails and morning stars with a Hermit Knight champion upgrade that can take one magic item from the temple/monestary?

>>50349677
>>50351282
They could be knights who have forsaken their horse as past of their quest, kinda like Questing Knights forsake their lance.

Prove you're worthy of the grail through humility kinda deal.

>>50350004
But medieval monks don't fight as knights.

>>50351412
>all the ex-knights gather in monasteries to work on earning forgiveness in the eyes of the Lady
>never forget all their old skills, so if an enemy attacks they take up swords and armor in the name of the Lady

Now that's cool. Kind of goes with how it seems like knights like Lancelot always end up hermits.

>>50351443
http://lesliefish.com/mp3s/cripples.mp3

>>50351443
>knights like Lancelot always end up hermits.
he dipped his sword into the wrong pond.
He was supposed to be the best of the men on the round table, yet he fell short in the most spectacular way of all.

>>50352460
Shouldn't have fucked the boss's wife. Same with Landuin, what did Theirulf ever do to you?

>>50352460
Well, what do you expect for Mary Sue OC shoved in because someone thought there weren't enough French guys in this British legend?

>>50352460
>>50352738
Interestingly, the Bretonnian Lancelot - Landuin - seemed to have a falling out for a reason that was never confirmed.

>>50352926
It was over the wife of another of the Companions, Theirulf, who was also on of the three original Grail Knights. What this means, exactly, is unknown. All we know is that Landuin defeated and scared Theirulf in a duel they had. A shame we never got that 8th edition army book, hopefully it was written by someone that doesn't hate Bretonnia.

>>50353184
That's stated to be one of several rumors, anyway, in the WFRP 2e Knights of the Grail book.

We never find out why some of the dukes defected to Mallobaude, either.

>>50353246
Bad writing by someone who didn't give a shit. Just 'lol civil war cause reasons' that was solved within a paragraph.

>>50353309
I liked the Mallobaude stuff though. Bretonnia otherwise just seems too isolated from most threats, and it would be too easy to assume there's no such thing as a (surviving) disgraced knight or anyone that disagrees with king and country.

>>50353577
Mallobaude as he's written in Knights of the Grail isn't even disgraced. He still has a sense of honor and fair play (among nobles), and he tries to win confederates over with logic, not mien force.

The question one wonders - leaving aside the silliness of ET - is what could be so terrible that he threw in his lot with necromancers and vampires?

>>50353577
Mallobaude isn't the problem, it's the story that was presented. Several dukes joined for no reason, he's supported by an army of monsters and before anythinf can really happen the Green Knight shows up to wrap up the plot and do nothing for the rest of the End Times.

Personally I want to use him in a WFRP campaign and explore that he's still an honourable guy, but has had a 'revalation' that makes him resent the Lady and the country as a whole. Imagine a 'Dark Grail Knight', not chaotic evil per se, but not good either.

In my mind he was good enough to be a Grail Knight, too good even, but failed the final test that was meant to teach him humility. Instead of realising that you may search for the Grail for a lifetime and never find it, or find it but not be worthy of it, a truly pious man would continue the quest. Instead he felt cheated when sipping from the Grail didn't fundamentally change him, like he had wasted his life. Had he been humble and able to put aside his 'failure' then he could have become a Grail Knight, perhaps one of the greatest.

>>50353741
I intend to tangentially use Mallobaude in my game. He's playing off the frustration (which is fair) of Mousillon basically being abandoned and left to rot. He'll lash together a band of angry men and power-hungry villains and deliberately expend them in the war so that when it's over, there's scarcely anything left of the old Bretonnian lies and he can rebuild it in a way free of the Lady's lies or tricks. He still cares about Bretonnia, but it's time for amputation.

>>50353839
The thing is, every time Mousillon rebelled the whole country fell on them. The only ways Mallobaude could possibly wage war against all of Bretonnia is to forge an alliance with the Lahmian vampires to infiltrate as many noble houses as possible to put them under his control, or, much more likely, use his skills to instigate a peasant uprising like never before. Turning an entire country's down trodden lowerclass into effective soldiers through drilling, training and lots of rhetoric. Maybe abandoning the Bretonnian aesthetic in a symbolic gesture of wiping out the old order, adopting a more practical version of Imperial uniforms. A mix of French/Prussian soldiers? Think French Revolution but skip the republic parts and skip right to French Empire.

>>50350720
Because I like one better.

>>50344373
Here's an idea as to the source of his power, he might be a sorcerer already, albeit a weaker one, but he's in possession of a herdstone lodged in a large, sickly tree that grows foul tasting black fruit. Inside the fruit are larva that may be placed inside the body, either through the ear or the mouth, up to you. These larva connect to the host's brain and allow them to be controlled like puppets, or at least become very suggestible.
The goal is to kill the Gave, destroy the tree and maybe save the unfortunate victims of your PCs are clever enough to find out how.

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>>50297223
Why didn't the Skaven tunnel to Ultuan?

>>50357837
They can't hide from the mages, and any tunnels are quickly dealt with.

>>50357837
>>50357910
Ulthuan isn't connected to the sea floor, that's why skaven haven't been able to do shit. Better question is why they don't tunnel into naggaroth or athel Loren

>wanted to get into warhammer for just over a decade but never had the money
>used to stare inside a games workshop longingly
>recently wanted to play fantasy because I prefer the overall look and theme (also large battles)
>want to play skaven which has no 40k equivalent
>now I have disposable income so can get into waehammer but there's Age of Sigmar

My question is, as a new player, should I just bite the bullet and play AoS or should I just abandon fantasy and play 40k. I know no-one who plays warhammer so no chance of finding someone to play 9th.

>>50358239
I'd suggest looking for a group online that can meet up irl. I'm sure if you look hard enough you'll find something. If I could start this hobby in the NWT, you can probably do the same where you live, which is likely down south somewhere.

>>50358215
>>Naggaroth
Too cold, try digging through permafrost. Plus they have one of the few people that would consider working together.

>>Athel Loren
I'm sure they've tried but popped their heads out of the tunnel only for a treeman to pop their heads off. Plus getting lost and all that, what with how space and time is all fucked in some parts of the woods.

>>50358215
>Ulthuan isn't connected to the sea floor
I didn't know that.

>>50358239
Basically, as a person building some fantasy armies as well( Empire and Skaven/chaos), you're in good luck. AOS, as different as it is, uses almost all the units from fantasy(only under ridiculous trademarked re-names.) and, more importantly, also allows square bases. Now, there are some AOS-fags who get salty about the use of square bases(movement advantages apparently, but in all honesty it's negligible.) but considering that AOS is'nt too popular to the point that they've got choices, they have no right to be picky.

So this means as long as you base your army with squares, it allows you access to both the various editions of WFB, 9th age, and AOS, thus giving you flexibility when it comes to what the players in your area like to play.

>>50358215
How does it stay afloat? (other than Elven/Old One magics, I presume)

>>50359009
It's made of pumice.

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>>50359009
Just magical wards placed by the Old Ones, I imagine. The creation of the Vortex wreaked havoc and Malekith trying to undo it made it even worse, drowning parts of Ulthuan forever. The Old Ones raised it from the sea floor, so they must have had some kind of continuous spell to keep it afloat.

>>50359156
Fucking Malekith.

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>>50351443
>But medieval monks don't fight as knights.

But that's wrong you fucking retard.

>>50351282
>Monks can fight with flails, which is where clerics get their theme from, iirc. Weapons that can still hurt but don't technically 'draw blood' like a sword or axe would
This is a Victorian meme. Monastic orders would take up arms all the time, some like the Knights Templar et all were specific military monastic orders, the whole point of them was to shed blood in defense of Christendom.

The idea that monks found a loophole about 'not shedding blood' by arming themselves with blunt weapons and flails is a complete fiction. They used swords, axes, spears, what everyone else used in war time.

>>50359274
Then equip them in the manner of their temple. Monks/friars of Taal and Rhya wield bows, Ulric with greatweapons, Manann with nets and tridents, etc? The Bretonnians worship the human pantheon just like the Empire does, sans Sigmar as he's a regional god, and it should be reflected. Even the nobility, with the Lady as their patron, still make prayers and sacrifices to Manann when going aboard a ship and Shallya when healing is needed.

>>50359213
A monastic order, despite the name, is not made up of monks. The knights within the order may take some monastic vows, and work with the clergy, but they are still knights first and foremost - at best, they're considered lay brothers of the church.

You fucking faggot.

>>50324336
Generally speaking, it is Eastern Europe before Peter the Great came up with the beard tax (look it up).

>>50360080
>A monastic order, despite the name, is not made up of monks
The knights hospitaller was literally founded by a Benedictine monk. Most monks in every order aren't ordained.

You are confusing monks with ordained priests. And both the Templars and the Hospitallers had ordained priests in their ranks.

You really, really don't know what you're talking about.

>>50360244
The Knights Hospitaller grew out of a hospital in Jerusalem, initially just an armed escort for pilgrims. True, the original hospital and order was founded by a Benedictine monk, but by the time it had become a true military order, the Master of the Hospital was a knight.

You're the one assuming lay brothers are the same as monks. The knights of orders were considered analogous to monks - having the same immunities, and taking similar vows - but these rules relaxed as history went on, and obviously they did not live apart from the world, in fact taking a large part in secular matters. Lay brothers were not ordained priests.

>>50350004
there's only one sort of monks in fantasy
this ain't historical fiction, mate

>>50353969
I like to imagine that Mallobaude has made aecret inroads with more corrupt or less romantic dukes, either appealing to their greed or practicality. Remember, the Cordon Sanitaire does NOT apply to nobles, and it would be trivial for Mallobaude to slip out and go pay some visits, assuming he could work the politics to get an audience. And he's supposed to be hella convincing.

>>50358215
They've tried and failed badly multiple times. The skaven fear elves.

>>50361558
you're thinking about goblins. they got a rule for that.

>>50361578
Apparently elves too, according to the WFRP 2e skaven book. As to the elves, they're 'saving the worst for last. '

>>50361578
No the skaven actively avoided going after the elves until a couple centuries ago. Some on the council of 13 accused the others of being scared of elves. It's also quite telling that every pre endtimes meeting between the 2 races ends with the skaven invasion being a massive failure and the elves BTFO the rats

http://www.fireforge-games.com/webstore/9th-age/foot-sergeants-16-details

Fireforge Games is releasing some pegasi knights soon.

>GW
>"Balance is hard"
>"We is model company."
>"Models is hard too, it takes years to makes good models."
>"What do you mean those models were completed years ago and still unreleased? We're waiting for right time to update rules as well, they are just two edition behind others. Yes, we're models company."

>non GW
>"Oh, okay, let's make balanced rules, no big deal. For all armybooks at once too, so there's no discrepancies within same edition."
>"Making models for whatever stuff GW discontinues? Sure, right away. Discontinued yesterday, kickstarter today, get your models tomorrow."

why is it so?

TvTropes claims Giles the Breton was killed by an orc arrow, and so Brets shun the use of bows and other ranged weapons.

Why do Brets have archers then?

>>50362035
Peasants use bows. Knights don't, at least not for anything but hunting.

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>>50362066
>pheasants
why don't brets use humanoid birds instead of dirty villagers? would've been so much cooler.

>>50362423
>Why don't bretonnians use filthy beastmen as part of their army?
I wonder why...

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>>50362768
Yeah, beastmen smell FAR too good to blend in with Bretonnians!

>>50362768
beastmen are all cattle mammals
birds are different

>>50361882
>Oh, okay, let's make balanced rules, no big deal
I've yet to see a company actually make balanced rules.

>so there's no discrepancies within same edition
And although I do think the all-at-once approach is a hell of a lot better a system to the army books/codexes, there's always going to be discrepancies and runty models/units/factions.

>why is it so?
People like to exaggerate others flaws and gloss over their own. Play games, have fun, don't be a cunt.

>>50362820
ain't T9A rules balanced? at least better than WHFB ever was?

>>50362788
Isn't the "beastmen are cattle animals" just GW being lazy with the models?

Besides, Warhammer already has fighting cocks

>>50362788
You haven't seen the new Tzaangors (even if they're Age of Skub and 40k material) or heard of the rumors of penguin Beastmen in the south pole yet, then.

>>50362844
>fighting cocks
we're not talking about chaos warrios at the moment

>>50362851
Tzaangors still got horns and teeth and hooves, they are just slightly mutated in bird direction. but they are not birdmen. no feathers, no wings, no real toothless beak.

>>50362840
>at least better than WHFB ever was?
It's not exactly the most difficult hurdle they set for themselves.

>>50306496
WELFs will probably be easy to ally with - they gain the amber from allied nation's territories, making friendship very nearly as beneficial as conquest for a fraction of the effort.

>>50362844
Same reason why Chaos doesn't have a million models. Keeping the range from getting out of control. Beastmen take on characteristics based on their location, as Naggaroth beastmen are like insects and lizards. Fear of Lustria anyone?

>>50360080
There is plenty of historical records of bishops leading armies in battle (and sometimes dying) though. Look up the reconquest of the Iberian peninsula.

>>50362844
No. Its because GW ripped off Broo from Glorantha and repackaging the models, combined it with their D&D range, and never came up with anything new.

>>50360972
Which is sad, because Warhammer at its core is historical fiction mixed with unsold D&D minis.

>>50363795
Yes, those do exist. Many times they used maces or clubs to 'get around' the spilling of blood rule, though some happily used swords. Odo of Bayeux, Absalon, Geoffry de Montbray, Anthony Bek, Paul Tomori...

But those were usually individual bishops, and they still often acted more as leaders. The warriors they did raise were not likely monks or priests - in fact, most warrior-prelates were purported as to often ignore their clerical duties. Bishops still owned large tracts of land, and could raise levies and knights from there. Though Bishop Bek did hire 'lower clerics of demonstrated military ability,' so it might be more common than it sounds.

Either way, that's different from a military monastic order.

>harpies confirmed
>morghur confirmed
Apologize to CA right now /whfb/

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bow to your new waifu /whfb/

>>50364757
Give Bretonnia the Green Knight and make him a Legendary Hero and they'll be cool in my books. And do the same with Grombrindal, he shouldn't be leading armies.

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>>50364898
>he shouldn't be leading armies.

>>50364757
Not until the first time Settra BTFOs Archaon and Khalida kills Neferata.

>>50364884
Bow to your sensei. BOW TO YOUR SENSEI!

>>50364898
I'm guessing he'll function as some kind of bound summon spell, akin to the current lore of beasts spell that lets you summon a Manticore/Cygor. Perhaps high level lords will gain this summon as an activated ability, like the Orc "Waaagh" or Imperial "rally".

>>50364968
Sounds strange, more likely that a Damsel or Prophetess would have that ability. Still, he should be a hero I can use but doesn't deploy with the army. Maybe give him an ability to instantly travel between two points on the campaign map but only within Bretonnia, or able to be summoned to one battle per turn if you have an engaged army that doesn't already include him. Like you can see that the balance isn't in your favour so you click the Green Knight button and he shows up as reinforcements in a forested area or something similar.

>>50364884
I dunno, she looks like the 'Bretonnian peasant killing' type to me.

>>50366130
literally perfect.