Forgotten Realms General

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>>50296678
While Drizzt, as statted here, certainly isn't bad his 5e incarnation might be better served using the NPC/monster creation rules and cribbing bits of the ranger to denote his connection to Mielikki and teachings from Montolio, barbarian to denote his primal rage and taking on the aspect of the hunter, and fighter in the form of the two-weapon fighting style.
He trained in the two-weapon fighting arts way before he became a ranger, all the way back in Menzoberranzan.

>>50296726
What did you use to make that?
Why are his ability scores so low (even within the context of 5e)?

>>50296726
Who the hell cares about Drizzt anyway?
He's not really relevant to the setting at all and after 20-something stories starring him over decades of publication exactly 2 things happened in his series that actually mattered in terms of the campaign setting.

>>50296934
I don't mind him, but the spotlight should definitely go to other characters, more Erevis Cale would be excellent and Artemis Entreri.
Less so on the Chosen and Elminster.

Guess Wizards is counting on his enduring popularity; developing new characters means developing a new line again.

>>50296934
Drizzt is best girl.

>>50296726
Your version of Drizzt includes things that aren't even in the books.

>>50296678
Lathander sees what you're doing and disapproves.

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>>50298831
Fuck Lathander. With the barbed ovipositor of Lolth!

>>50299756
You don't want to give Lathander the thought of Lolth fucking him, he will rekt that.

>>50296879
Previous Anon didn't; I did.

His ability scores are so low because I was deliberately limiting myself to I think a 27 or something point buy (don't quite remember, but it was only a little above average). I didn't want accusations of mary-sueing.

>>50296726
>He trained in the two-weapon fighting arts way before he became a ranger

I still don't buy this. His training in Melee-Magthere taught him to value ambush and traps, and during the school's "field trips" and after graduating and going on Underdark hunts he specifically preferred to scout and skirmish ahead of the main group, hunt monsters, and do other ranger-y things.

Drizzt has been a ranger since level 1. Making him a multiclass barbarian or fighter makes sense in 3.5, where multiclassing was easier and a better idea. But in 5e he makes more sense as a single-class Ranger.

>>50297901
Again, my version, not that Anon's.

- Call Natural Allies: Consequence of the class. It was that or a spellcasting ranger. Drizzt doesn't ever cast spells besides his racials.
- Colossus Slayer: Drizzt in The Crystal Shard takes particular joy in fighting verbeegs and hill giants. Thus his giant favored enemy and Colossus Slayer
- Combat Superiority: Representing Zak's training
- Drow Magic: Representing being a drow
- Dual Wielder: Because he does
- Escape the Horde: Drizzt is very good at avoiding attacks while moving through enemies; I'm specifically thinking of his fighting the wererats in Calimport in The Halfling's Gem
- Favored Enemy: Honestly if I were making this today I'd drop goblinds and make it monstrosities instead.
- Hide in Plain Sight: Drizzt is stealthy
- Land's Stride: Drizzt is a ranger. He ranges.
- Natural Antivenom: Consequence of the class. It was that or a spellcasting ranger. Drizzt doesn't ever cast spells besides his racials.
- Natural Explorer: Drizzt is a ranger. He ranges. Most of where he ranges is either the arctic, forests, or the Underdark.
- Poultices: Consequence of the class. It was that or a spellcasting ranger. Drizzt doesn't ever cast spells besides his racials.
- Primeval Awareness: Drizzt is a ranger. He's good at tracking.
- Sunlight Sensitivity: In the last Drizzt book I read, Sea of Swords, Drizzt still had issues in direct sunlight.
- Two-Weapon Fighting: Because he does
- Uncanny Dodge: Drizzt is very good at rolling with attacks.
- Vanish: Drizzt is stealthy
- Whirlwind Attack: Drizzt often fights hordes, so whirlwind attack would help.

Did I miss anything?

>>50300217
>you will never witness two gods having a massive fuckfest that demolishes entire mountain ranges

So what was everyones first Forgotten Realms experience? Mine was Baldur's Gate 1. It was also my first DnD related experience. Fuck me I struggled with it as a kid

>>50302476
Buying the Grey Box way, way back when.

>>50300602
No, young children. This is not a sight for mortal eyes.
OH GODS, IT'S BLINDING!!

>>50300602
Reading through Steams of Silver all the way back in primary school. I think that's elementary school for Americans?
Our primary school library was fucking amazing.

Are there 5e conversions of FR characters? SCAG had nothing.

"Old Gods have returned. Mask, Lathander, and Helm are back. Helm and Lathander only have chosen, not avatars. Mystra, the original one, was apparently hanging out being a bear in a cave. Eleminster died, only not really, and somehow fixed the weave.
Those chosen by the gods are all over the place, because the gods are trying to get in positions of leverage before AO rewrites the tablets of fate tying everyone down in a new order.
Abeir is leaving. The world of Abeir had merged back with world of Toril during the events of 4e. This is being undone. That means Dragonborn are gone, but I imagine that there are still a few hiding somewhere. Probably also means that other areas are coming back (Maztica).
Spellplague ended. Fixed. Victims healed. Plaguelands gone.
War time is war! Everyone is kung-fu fighting! The drama between returned Netheril and Sembia is somewhat resolved and the world is still here.
The Underchasm has been filed.
Netheril is down. No more motes. No more flying cities. I read that Elminster knocked one of them out of the sky? The shades and Netheril are still around, but no longer a world shattering power.
Magic works like it used to."

What the colossal fuck, did all of this happen?

"Lord Ao!" Helm acknowledged, bowing his head in supplication.

"Bring me the Tablets of Fate," Ao commanded.

Helm opened the saddlebags and removed the tablets. In the god's mighty hands, the two stones looked small, almost insignificant. Helm took the tablets to Ao then kneeled on the stairway to await further commands.

Ao studied the tablets for several minutes. In a hundred places throughout the Realms, the avatars of the surviving gods fell into a deep trance as Ao summoned their attention.

"On these artifacts," the overlord said, sending his voice and image to all of his gods. "I have recorded the forces that balance Law and Chaos."

"And I have returned them to you," Cyric said, daring to meet Ao's gaze.

Ao looked at the thief without approval or disapproval. "Yes," he said, stacking the tablets together. "And here is what it amounts to!" The overlord of the gods crushed the tablets in his hands and ground them into dust.

Midnight cringed, expecting the heavens to come crashing down. Adon cried out in grief and astonishment. Cyric watched the dust fall from between Ao's fingers, an angry frown creeping down his face.

Helm jumped to his feet. "Master, what have you done?" the god asked, his voice betraying his fear.

"The tablets mean nothing," Ao said, addressing all of his gods, no matter where they were. "I kept them to remind you that I created gods to serve the Balance, not to twist it to your own ends. But this point was lost on you. You saw the tablets as a set of rules by which to play juvenile games of prestige and pomp! Then, when the rules became inconvenient you stole them..."

>>50305427

"But that was -," Helm began.

"I know who took the Tablets of Fate," Ao replied, silencing Helm with a curt wave of his hand. "Bane and Myrkul have paid for their offenses with their lives. But all of you were guilty, causing worshipers to build wasteful temples, to devote themselves so slavishly to your name that they could not feed their children, even to spill their own blood upon your corrupt altars - all so you could impress each other with your hold over these so-called inferior creatures. Your behavior is enough to make me wish I had never created you."

Ao paused and let his listeners consider his words. Finally, he resumed speaking. "But I did create you and not without purpose. Now, I am going to demand that you fulfill that purpose. From this day forward, your true power will depend upon the number and devotion of your followers."

From one end of the Realms to another, the gods gasped in astonishment. In far off Tsurlagoi, Talos the Raging One growled, "Depend on mortals?" The one good eye of his youthful, broad-shouldered avatar was opened with outrage and shock.

"Depend on them and more," Ao returned. "Without worshipers, you will wither, even perish entirely. And after what has passed in the Realms, it will not be easy to win the faith of mortals. You will have to earn it by serving them."

In sunny Tesiir, a beautiful woman with silky scarlet hair and fiery red-brown eyes looked as though she were going to retch. "Serve them?" Sune asked.

"I have spoken!" Ao replied.


All of the FR gods are colossal dicks.

>>50304887
Yes, concretely, as of Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide.

Basically the theme of FR in 5e seems to be "everything will be as close to 2e as possible without actually erasing stuff from history".

So they're not changing the fact that Bhaal died, but they are bringing him back.

They're not changing that Netheril came back, but they are having it collapse again, and one of its flying cities conveniently happened to fall on Myth Drannor, which in 4e was up and running as a city again but now that it had a literal mountain fall on it, is back to being a ruin.

And so on.

They're not changing the fact that Eilistraee died, except they are, she was really just hiding the entire time, and also she didn't actually kill Vhaeraun, he's back too, as are Kiaransalee and Selvatarm for some reason, literally without any explanation (which might be for the best, really, since any explanation will just be contrived).

Eilistraee just gets less and less interesting the more I learn about her.

>>50306013
>Basically the theme of FR in 5e seems to be "everything will be as close to 2e as possible without actually erasing stuff from history".
Honestly, I really disliked the whole spellplague bullshit, but this policy is even worse. Either continue down the path you've chosen or retcon 4e.
I mean it's not like those who didn't like spellplague can't set their games before 1385DR.

Gentlemen, there is an easy solution to all the problems faerunian/greenwoodfaggia and it is called "the good things of 1e+2e and nothing else matters". I repeat: Just ignore any bullshit 3e-5e and take only the good things out of 1e+2e. Ignore the mongorians, ignore asia, irgnore ninjas, ignore each and any "realms shatting event" (TM), ignore dinosaurs (Chult), ignore flying ships, and the list goes on. But I am sure and I must say, I have confidence in any of you, being able to identify what's crap and what's not and to engage this shit and throw it out of your version of the Realms.

>>50306986
Personally, I don't mind most of the 3E lore, so I use some of it in my version of Faerun. Mostly I just disregard the metaplot and call it a day, since the metaplot is mind-numbingly retarded.

>mind-numbingly retarded
don't mind most of the 3E lore

choose one.

>>50304887
>What the colossal fuck, did all of this happen?

They realized that 4e Realms removed basically everything people who liked the Realms liked about the Realms in the name of corporate homogenization except some novel heroes who don't really sell all THAT many novels anymore so Ao's Tablets of Fate were destroyed and Faerun got hit with a semi-retcon beam that undid 20-odd years of editorial dickery while still keeping decently popular later changes.

>>50305427
>>50305438
Why is Helm such a little bitch.

>>50306013
>Netheril came back, but they are having it collapse again, and one of its flying cities conveniently happened to fall on Myth Drannor
Why are they doing this?
How many were destroyed in Myth Drannor's devastation?

>Eilistraee just gets less and less interesting the more I learn about her.
Why's that?

>>50306986
Dinosaurs in Chult was fucking great.

>>50306282
I feel like the only reason they haven't flat out retconned it, is because Greenwood is a fucking hippie and hates the concept of retconning someone else's work, even if their work was complete and utter bullshit.
I seem to recall the candlekeep forums going nuts about a novel featuring a Sunite using her powers to rape someone, and all greenwood's response was "Well that wouldn't happen in my Realms, but I'm sure that writer had his reasons."

>>50309564
He sounds like a swell guy, but he needs to take creative lead and learn to say this is fucked up and say no. Unless that decision-making-power was taken away from him and his hands are tied.
Isn't he also Canadian or some shit?

>>50309634
He is canadian.
And legally speaking he has almost no control of the Realms. He even used to talk about how he's technically not allowed to share most of his notes about his own Realms campaign, because a lot of his writings are under some form of NDA due to it being related to stuff that was in the initial drafts that TSR had full rights to, and hasbro now has full rights to, including stuff that TSR/WotC has thrown out for the sake of their own lore/marketing.
He still presumably has a lot of say in what happens in the Realms, but he has always said the FR is about you and your group's own stories, not to be defined by him and his own stories, which is why he lets other writers do what they want, and just offers notes/ideas if they ask.

>>50310103
Good for him.

Damn, apparently the story went he signed away his rights to his setting because he wasn't knowledgeable at all about the legalities of it or decided what he got was a sweet deal anyway.

He should at least be consulted on the decisions Wizards are progressing ahead with their timeline. 5e apparently does bring in consultants from time to time, so there's hope in that yet.

That's actually good advice from him, play however you choose to and not be mired in what you don't want to be mired in.

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>grew up with forgotten realms
>played NwN n stuff
>its actually the most high magic anime realm in DnD
Deekin dont like

>>50310825
Wat.

>>50310843
>EL salvator de mucho cingo
>Elminster black dong has sex with magic itself
>edge wizzard of tai
name a setting filled with more angst i DARE YOU

>>50310872
I'm sorry brah, but please word that using actual English.

>>50310920
ok
for the fedoras
forgotten realms is DnD made up by 12 year old manga loving, Mary Sue junkies.
>Drizzed slaughtering 200 giants on his own is a good and worthy to play in setting
i kinda am ok with some of the lore but hell. why must every one be a super sayan cry baby

>>50311002
You're still not making a compelling case.

>>50311002
Most of Greenwood's super NPCs came from TSR mandate though.
The old elminster was a guy who got lucky with portals, but mostly bumbled around with scrolls and shit.
Salvatore wanted to write about !Conan, but nerds liked the edgy drow a lot more, so that became a flagship character.

>>50311426
i just am not ok with settings where you cant throw a rock without hitting a spellcaster.
i get your point tho.
but hear my wisdom. creating content that fans dictated you. and you being cuck enough to do it for the $ will NEVER end in a good product

>>50311426
TSR had weird shit happening for the Realms. Evil could never win for one.

>>50311548
>creating content that fans dictated you. and you being cuck enough to do it for the $ will NEVER end in a good product
Come again please.

>>50311548
Obviously. But I'm some kind of hipster who prefers playing with only old school realmslore, and I even get picky with the 2e stuff.

>>50311548
TSR mandated, not the fans.

>>50311612
i think the common term is "selling out"

>>50311636
i do have to say i like the pantheon of FR.
DnD has like zeus and shit wich im not cool with being in a fantasy setting. FR has no deity thats copied from some existing culture.
or atleast thats what i think

>>50311661
I think it was toe theTSR company line or gtfo.
Ed sold the rights to the FR early on in its inception as an official product.

>>50311709
Are you cereal, kid?
Unther, Chessenta, Mulhourand.
The interloper gods like Mielikki, Loviatar, Oghma, Silvanus. These are all based on real world gods.
Not to mention a lot of the FR gods are amalgamations of existed/existing deities.

>>50311709
Try to actually start thinking.

>>50311771
ye ofc they are based on something that exists. rarely has there been a work of fiction completly devoted of anything that exists. but its not like
"thor appears in the dressing room and is offenced. roll for init"
shit man ofc ppl had thought about all sorts of deitrys befor nerds in basements startet rolling dice. but the names are not so clearly ripped from something that can be found in a disney film.
>plz tell me chernabog doesnt exist in FR

>>50311867
The Untheric and Mulhorandi pantheons are literally the Sumeric and Eqyptian pantheons.

Mielikki and Loviatar are Finnish gods, Silvanus is Roman, Oghma is Celtic, Tyr is Asgardian.

>>50309329
>How many were destroyed in Myth Drannor's devastation?

What a colossal effort in futility. Why bring it back only for it to fall again so quickly?

>>50312033
Everything must suffer.

Didn't they devote an entire book series to retaking and reconstructing Myth Drannor?

>>50311981
i remember dropping a potion of Re in NwN2
fuckity fuck
well fuck FR then

>>50312409

Yes The Last Mythal trilogy, and they were surprisingly good for a elf focus series, making this even worse.

Speaking about books Forgotten Realms books series. Which get the /tg/ seal of approval? The aforementioned The Last Mythal, Twilight War, War of the Spider Queen and The Lady Penitent are pretty good in my option.

>>50312477
The FR pantheon is still great. It's very Greek.

What don't you like about it now?

>>50312477
Actually, it's not that those gods are copied but that they are supposed to be OUR versions of those gods.
Like, Mulhorndi and Untheric deities are very much like Earth ones because both of those cultures were basically Stargated from Earth by wizard assholes to be slaves, with the differences in myths in Faerun effectively being changes caused by distance and time from the original versions of these gods and the belief of the native Faerunian cultures changing their Faerunian incarnations.

>>50312744
What's Twilight War and the Lady Penitent?

The first three books of the War of the Spider Queen were amazing, the rest of the series turned to complete shit unfortunately.

I've always liked the novels involving Sekolah.

Ed is better worldbuilding than novel writing.

>>50313999
Fuck, not Sekolah, Iakhovas.

>>50313197
Wait, what? A normal IRL person can be teleported into Forgotten Realms in canon?

Holy shit, please tell me there are novels about this that I can read!

>>50314093
I don't know any novels, but in the older FR lore, it was canon that some kind of ancient catastrophe separated several worlds from being able to communicate with each other, and our stories of magic and shit ended up going with them since our world is magically weak without those portals connecting us.

It was also canon that the vast majority of FR lore that we read in our world is stuff vetted by Elminster himself, which is why Volo several times hints at the fact that Elminster is full of shit and the novels are also full of embellishments to a ludicrous degree.
As I recall, Volo even disses the novel series about himself.

And again, while I don't know of any novels off hand about an earther going to the FR, I think greenwood has written a couple of "totally definitely not Forgotten Realms" stories along that vein.

>>50314093
Sorta. That was the premise of an apocalyptic event in Faerun's ancient past when the Imaskari (wizards with no concept of right and wrong and enough hubris to rival Netheril) decided to cast open gates to our ancient Egypt and Sumeria/Babylon and gate in thousands of slaves.

Then the Imaskari fuckers barred all travel back, either spiritual or planar. Only through Ao could the deities of their pantheons only send through manifestations and aspects, not enough avatars.

After a period of time passed, orcs were also gated in with the limited manifestations of their gods; the orcish gods subsequently then rekt'd most of the Untheric pantheon.

>>50314322
>>50314300
>two sets of dubs

Nice. Very nice.

Also, that is fucking mind blowing. Why hasn't anyone used this potential goldmine?

>Hey, Dwarf, come here.
>You know those nice giant cannons on that ship over there?
>What if I told you that you could make a cannon that could fit in the palm of your hand,
>AND, it can fire multiple rounds before having to reload it?

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>>50297467

>>50314093
>>50314418
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Imaskar

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>>50314462

>>50296879
27 point-buy, nothing above 15 before racial mods, are the point buy rules in 5e.

>>50296934
I don't understand the mass appeal of Drizzt either.

Pharaun Mizzrym best Drow Male.
Gromph Baenre next in the list.
Liriel Baenre probably most interesting Drow female, but Halisstra Melarn was alright in Lady Penitent.

But Realms as a whole?

I'd prefer more Jack Ravenwild, and more Khelben Blackstaff.

>>50315054
Why wouldn't you just the NPC creation rules?

>>50314418
Because TSR already started panicking when Greenwood wrote that guns were not only a part of Faerun, but they would become commonplace in a few (in game) years. 3e decided to retcon that entirely, and suddenly the Printing Press, which had been in use in AD&D2e's Realms at the least, possibly older, was a new invention again, and a lot of the tech that existed in the realms got reverted.

Though it did used to get silly in places, Drow with cyberpunk style prosthesis, Spelljammer ships, a giant laser cannon that could shoot the moon, Steam Engines in their experimental stages, etc.

>>50312744
City of Splendors.
City of Ravens
Counselors and Kings
Twilight and Shadows

>>50315125
No idea. Dude seemed to be building him deliberately as close to PC rules as he could manage.

I was just pointing out where those numbers come from.

>>50315182
Thanks dude. Was quite helpful.

>>50314462
Who is the artist

>>50309329
>Why's that?

Eilistraee just doesn't feel like a natural "good" antithesis to Lolth. Her priesthood is still very matriarchal (to the point where the few male priests can't participate in some of the more important rites unless they magically transform into females for the duration); her priests don't seem to make any special effort into proselytizing in drow cities (instead relying on outcasts making their way to Eilistraeen priests); and most importantly of all she seems to be defined entirely and solely by her opposition to Lolth rather than existing meaningfully in her own right.

Vhaeraun feels like a more "natural" antithesis to Lolth, since in addition to the whole male-oriented thing he seems to have his own reason for existing and objectives beyond merely opposing Lolth (the Jaelre and Auzkovyn drow in Cormanthor, for exaple, especially the latter). Of course, he's evil. I was really hoping that Eilistraee's slaying of Vhaeraun and absorbing his portfolio would result in Eilistraee becoming more interesting and getting more definition beyond opposition to Lolth...

...but then Eilistraee died. But then she wasn't really dead, for no reason. And also Vhaeraun is back - equally for no reason.

Worse according to Greenwood, it's not even that Ao brought Eilistraee and Vhaeraun back. It's that neither were ever actually dead to begin with, despite both very concretely dying at the end of the Lady Penitent.

http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=19841&whichpage=22#476639
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=19841&whichpage=22#476688

With 5e, I was hoping that if the drow got a "good" deity, it would be a new one. Maybe an ascended drow mortal - I personally on that front favored Liriel Baenre. But, that didn't happen, and Eilistraee's just back apropos nothing.

>>50315125
I prefer building NPCs using class levels where possible.

>>50315750
This doesn't work out if the PCs actually fight this NPC in 5e.

You get that, right?

5e PCs do a lot of damage and have very little HP. 5e Monsters/NPCs do a bit less damage, and have a lot more HP.

They're not designed on the same number scales at all.

>What does this mean?
If means if your PCs fight someone built using PC rules in 5e, there is a very good chance that the first person to land a hit will score a kill.

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>>50315813
>They're not designed on the same number scales at all.

That sounds like a problem for my players, not me.

>>50315849
Let me rephrase, then.

It means that as soon as they hit Drizzt, he dies. No epic battle, no gradually wearing him down.

He likely doesn't even make it a single round, unless he's a significantly higher level than them.

>>50315920
Ssh, this is what he clearly wants.

>>50315920
Well, first, I can't think of why my players would want to fight Drizzt, nor a reason why Drizzt would want to fight my players.

Second, assuming a reason could be found, I don't see why Drizzt would fight my players alone, particularly not when we just had a whole novel devoted to him getting his band back together. Cattie-Brie is apparently a Mage/Druid (or maybe Mage/Cleric) now for reasons that are frankly beyond me; what was wrong with her as an archer? Not every adventuring party needs a spellcaster. This is why I stopped reading the books at Sea of Swords.

Fourthly, when I statted out Drizzt, it wasn't with the intention of making him an NPC for any player characters to fight. Rather, I was objecting to the tweet from...Mearls, I think? Whoever...that Drizzt is officially an 8th level Fighter; that his accomplishments warrant mid-high levels and that a character who is stated over and over and OVER again to be a ranger in D&D products (i.e., it's not like we're trying to translate a non-D&D character into D&D; Drizzt was conceived of from the get-go as a D&D-style ranger for his D&D tie-in novels), is even the iconic ranger shown in the Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide, should be rolled up with at least the vast majority of his levels in ranger.

>>50316011
Oh, there was supposed to be a thirdly in there, but apparently I forgot it or changed my mind about it. Mea culpa. Imagine I said "thirdly" instead of "fourthly".

>>50316011
Unfortunately the problem you run into with named chars is the authors may take liberties with what class features the char might take.
They're there to tell a story, not to strictly adhere to games rules.
What you might find is you're left with superfluous rules that are just there and clutter up the overall build.

As an aside, Drizzt learned his two-weapon fighting craft specifically from Zaknafein, who was a master in that blade-style.

>>50316011
Should he not at least be a fighter-ranger, for the simple reason that his father (who trained him in TWF) was a House Weapon Master (Fighter)?

>>50316069
Drizzt's masters at Sorcere and Melee Magthere learned early on because he was extremely intelligent and ambidextrous.
He was either going to down the route of wizard or fighter.

His ambidexterity should also be a trait or gain free access to the feat.

>>50316069
>They're there to tell a story, not to strictly adhere to games rules.

Yeah, but the moment of his creation was a conversation between Bob Salvatore and his agent that basically boiled down to:

"Bob, I need Wulfgar's sidekick."
"Okay, I'll get back to you - "
"No, Bob, I'm on my way to the meeting. I need the sidekick right now."
"Fine. Um...a drow."
"...a dark elf?"
"Yup. A dark elf ranger."
"What's his name?"
"Drizzt Do'Urden of Daermon Na'a'schezbaernon, Ninth House of Menzoberranzan."
"...can you spell that?"
"Not a chance."
"Drizzit?"
"Drizzt."
"Got it."

>As an aside, Drizzt learned his two-weapon fighting craft specifically from Zaknafein, who was a master in that blade-style.

In no edition, but particularly not 5th Edition, is D&D granular enough to care about where you learned two-weapon fighting from, only whether or not you have the relevant feats/features/whatever.

That Zaknafein was a Fighter does nothing to inhibit Drizzt being a Ranger, particularly not since Zak solely trained Drizzt in combat but Drizzt also spent 10 years in Melee-Magthere learning scouting, skirmishing, trap-setting, ambushing, and the weaknesses of monsters. Zak is the background detail that justifies Drizzt's combat prowess, but he by no means requires Drizzt to have even a single level in Fighter.

>>50316120
Always in the context of squads and being part of a unit.

His scouting, skirmishing, trap-setting, ambusing, and learning the weaknesses of monsters can all be mechanically represented using the fighter or actually fluff.
He did become a ranger later on in his adventuring life though.

He should also be a barbarian, to represent his rage and Hunter persona.

>>50316120
He didn't start out as a ranger. But he did become a ranger, and heard the call of Mielikki on the surface world.

Something that I don't particularly fancy in the FR, the overabundance of Chosen.

>>50316178
>Always in the context of squads and being part of a unit.

Rangers are not required to be loners, and in fact are tied with Rogues as the best scouts in the game, usually.

>His scouting, skirmishing, trap-setting, ambusing, and learning the weaknesses of monsters can all be mechanically represented using the fighter or actually fluff.

And all of Elminster's abilities can be represented by the Sorcerer class. That doesn't change the fact that he's a wizard and should be statted out as such.

>He should also be a barbarian, to represent his rage and Hunter persona.

Just because you get angry/go into survival mode doesn't mean you need to have a barbarian rage. His "hunter" personal was the result of him living alone in the Underdark for 10 years. It's less a class features and more a form of indefinite madness, one that disappeared once he started hanging out with people on a regular basis again.

>>50316225
>He didn't start out as a ranger.

I argue that he did, or at the least that it's extremely clumsy to stat his first few levels as that of a Fighter trying to ape the Ranger's shtick, and then level him into Ranger anyway, when there is no reason why you can't just stat him out as a Ranger from the get-go.

>>50316238
You seem to be someone who only favors those arguments that favors your already entrenched views and ignores other arguments that do not side with your restricted representation.

>>50316238
>>50316284
3e actually did quite well with the Ftr10/Ranger5/Barb1.

Arguments have been put forth he should be a scout rather than a ranger.

>>50316327
See, now I'm fairly good with that.

Though in 5e you'd want to go Fighter 11 Ranger 4 Barb 1, for that third attack.

Just make sure your first level is in Ranger for the skill proficiencies.

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>>50316237
That can be blamed on the overabundance of deities.

>>50316307
I don't think I've ignored any argument, but rather have each time taken the time to raise a viable counter.

My argument is, in sum:

1) He is stated in the lore as being a Ranger;
2) Virtually everything he does can be represented by the Ranger class; exceptions (RE: summoning Errtu in The Crystal Shard) are not common enough to deviate from this;
3) Therefore it is viable to stat him out as a Ranger.
4) While it is *possible* to justify statting him out in another class, SEE points (1) and (2), but particularly (1), which is of paramount importance.

That is to say, if Drizzt can be represented by both the Fighter class and the Ranger class, but is stated in the lore over and over again to be a Ranger, then it makes more logical sense to stat him as a Ranger and not a Fighter. This is also why advancing the argument that "class is just a name" doesn't hold up; class may be just a name, but if the lore assigns importance to Drizzt being a Ranger, and if the Ranger class can accurately represent him, then there is no reason to even consider Fighter.

>>50316327
In 3e the Ranger was a notably worse warrior than the Fighter, without the benefit of spells. This isn't the case in 5e, where the Ranger's talents (particularly the spell-less Ranger variant) allow it to equal a Fighter in combat.

The 3e Drizzt was also endeavoring to benefit from as many feats as possible to support a Two-Weapon Fighting build; this is unnecessary in 5e.

>>50316372
>Just make sure your first level is in Ranger for the skill proficiencies.

Which he would have picked up while still living in Menzoberranzan, which is my point: he can be statted as a Ranger from level 1.

Plus on a personal level the idea of a Fighter 11/Ranger 4 being considered an iconic ranger bothers me. Would you be okay with a Fighter 11/Wizard 4 representing an iconic wizard?

Finally, rushing headlong down the Fighter path simply to grab a third attack seems unnecessary. Fighting with two weapons already gives Drizzt three attacks per round; the Two-weapon Fighting feature lets him add his Dexterity bonus to damage with his off-hand attack; and Whirlwind Attack (in the Hunter kit) would let him attack any number of adjacent foes anyway.

>>50316573
>Drizzt as Iconic Ranger
He's a terrible iconic ranger anyways

>No spellcasting.
>Not a real animal companion.
>No particularly obvious favored enemy he goes out of his way to fight.

>>50316591
>No particularly obvious favored enemy he goes out of his way to fight.

Giants, dude. Re-read The Crystal Shard. He fucking loves fighting giants. This shows up in later books, too.

>No spellcasting.

Hence, spell-less ranger. Having said that, this has been a problem with D&D in general. The Ranger class can cast spells. The Rangers that show up in their novels almost never can.

>Not a real animal companion.

5e. Rangers don't necessarily have animal companions anymore. Drizzt obviously took the Hunter kit, not the Beast Master kit.

>>50316573
Why is he the iconic ranger?
Other pure rangers are better suited. Jeryth Paulkon would be the iconic ranger, and she's a Chosen of Mielikki,

Guenhwyvar isn't actually an animal companion, but a figurine of power.
What are Drizzt's obvious favored enemies? It's not even explicitly spelled out in the novels.
He doesn't even cast any nature spells, but does still use his racial heritage spell-likes.

>>50316618
>>50316573
If he was a ranger at the outset, which is still questionable, then he would've been a deep stalker and not a hunter.

Frankly, this discussion would've been put to rest if Drizzt followed all the other iconics and was statted instead as a NPC.

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>>50316669
>Why is he the iconic ranger?

I dunno, ask Wizards of the Coast. Pic related. They could have put anyone in the Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide; they chose Drizzt, and the entry opens up with a quote from Sojourn (albeit about Montolio watching Drizzt rather than Drizzt himself).

You can't even argue that they just put in Drizzt because he's well-known; it's not like they couldn't have put Drizzt somewhere else in the book, after all. But instead, when Wizards wanted some art for Rangers, they went with Drizzt.

>and she's a Chosen of Mielikki,

So's Drizzt, or at least he was as of the novel The Companions. He's also a Chosen of Lolth. Lolth is insane like that.

>Guenhwyvar isn't actually an animal companion, but a figurine of power.

Well la-dee-da. Once again: Rangers in 5e do not necessarily have animal companions. In particular, the Hunter kit, which is what I statted Drizzt out with in the first place, does not.

>What are Drizzt's obvious favored enemies?

- Monstrosities, picked up when training in Menzoberranzan and honed while living in the Underdark's wilds.

- Giants, picked up at some point on the surface world (RE: his utter glee at the prospect of fighting a dozen or so verbeegs and a giant in The Crystal Shard). In the same book he also seems to have extensive knowledge of how giants operate.

- Drow, from all the time spent fighting them throughout the Legacy of the Drow series

- Humans, possibly, based on his bredth of understanding of the Icewind Dale tribe's combat tactics, as well as because most of the pirates on the Sea of Swords are human (from his several years with Deudermont on the Sea Sprite)

>He doesn't even cast any nature spells

Neither do most Rangers in novels, even in D&D novels. Honestly, rangers casting spells has never made sense to me. None of their source material (Robin Hood, Strider, the huntresses of Diana, etc.) are mentioned as spellcasters in any way.

>>50316678
>then he would've been a deep stalker and not a hunter.

That's racist, dude. Just because he grew up in the Underdark, it doesn't mean he's forced to be a Deep Stalker.

>>50316735
That's possibly reading way too much into it.

>>50316741
Actually, the deep stalker is demonstrably the most appropriate for him starting out as a ranger.
All of the class features the deep stalker gets is thematic to what happened in Drizzt's origin novels.

>>50316764
If you like. I prefer him as a Hunter. I'm also not certain how well Deep Stalker interacts/balances with spell-less Ranger given that a major point of the kit is the expansion of the Ranger spell list. Removing access to that certainly decreases the kit's viability.

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>>50312744
>Forgotten Realms books series

My recommendation: the Empires trilogy (not-Mongols, the books are Horselords, Dragonwall and Crusade); the Finder's Stone trilogy (Azure Bonds, The Wyvern's Spur, Song of the Saurials); the Maztica trilogy (Amnian mercenaries conquer the not-Americas, the books are Ironhelm, Viperhand, Feathered Dragon). I also like the Moonshae books, that is The Moonshae trilogy and the Druidhome trilogy.

>>50316798
Is spell-less ranger actually a thing or just homebrew?

>>50317653
It's a class-variant which has been available in a few different editions.

But it's a weird variant, not the default.

>>50317686
I might try a hand at statting Drizzt as an npc.

>>50315678
New Vhaerun is CN so is a batter choice if you want to go non feminazi drow

>>50312744
I really liked the Finders Stone Trilogy and the whole idea of dozens of Alias Clones running around the Realms amused me greatly.
But then again I think the Time of Troubles was one of the few COLOSSAL EVENTS in FR that I actually liked.

Apart from that I really liked the the Harpers-Series books even if the writing was somewhat hit&miss. Because really, it was mainly about various people and powers getting revenge on the Harpers for being dickbags and trying to manipulate them. It just really shows off well what kind of humongous asshole Khelben actually is.

>>50315678
According to Greenwood himself, both Elistraee and Vhaeraun are different sort of beings then they used to be after their mutual "cohabitation" as it were.
Elistraee is less focused on females then she used to be and Vhaeraun is less evil and less about drow superiority (he's CN now as opposed to being Evil-aligned, in effect focusing more on the rebellious aspect), both having been heavily influenced by their brief existence as the same being.

He said that they basically agreed to disagree on certain areas and decided that both had a point that needed to made, and most importantly they both agreed that their mom was a total bitch and needed to die for their species to get anywhere.

>>50315678
>>50318082
>>50318163
Not gonna lie, this is pretty fucking retarded.
Their old iterations were based.

>>50318347
They're still basically the same, wouldn't worry about it. Vhaeraun is still CE. He's just kind of on better terms with his sister and seems to have agreed to put off their personal dispute until Lolth is down for the count.
I think it's just folks realizing that what both deities preached wasn't necessarily what their worshippers practiced so both changed just a bit.

It's Mask that's CN now, not Vhaeraun.

>>50315525
ArbuzBudesh

The picture is called "Smile of the Free One."

>>50318398
Why is Mask now CN? He was always a NE dick.

>>50318479
He decided he could break into the lucrative non-good, non-evil Rogue character worship market better if he changed his image a bit, with a side benefit of snagging some unlawful but not precisely evil professional criminal groups as well.

It was a savvy marketing choice is all.
Better then turning into a sword and getting used by a narssistic crazy stalker guy I guess, but hey; everyone makes bad investments here and there right?

>>50318517
But instead of the evil asshole he was before, now he's just an asshole?

>>50315678
>her priests don't seem to make any special effort into proselytizing in drow cities
Probably because they'd get, you know. Murdered furiously by any Lolthite priestess, who in 99% of drow cities are at the top of the power spectrum.

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>>50318552
Yup.
Instead of being the God of Evil Rogues and Crime he's the God of Dickass Thieves; maybe not evil, definitely an asshole.

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>>50318082
>New Vhaerun is CN

Not according to the SCAG he isn't, which is the most recent official word on the subject.

Also Ghaunadaur is now a Great Old One warlock option rather than a deity.

>>50319013
I get that.

What I don't get is the lack of Eilistraeen cults in drow cities. Whenever there's an Eilistraeen drow in a city, they're always a weird loner doing everything in their power to not get detected, and don't tell anyone they're a follower of Eilistraee.

What I want instead are small, organized cults of Eilistraee worshippers subtly undermining the Matriarchy of Lolth and actively, if extremely cautiously, recruiting new members. Basically imagine your typical Good Surface City that has a cult of Bhaal or Cyric hidden within it somewhere; I'm basically looking for the mirror image of that. Or, heck, a more apt comparison might be early Christians hiding in Rome.

But Eilistraeen priests would rather run around naked on the surface waiting for drow to come to them.

>>50316011
She's a wizard with a custom "Chosen of Mielikki" template.

She lost her archery when she started first getting old, basically.

She was born in 1339 DR. She was 19 during the Time of Troubles, then spent six years with Drizzt adventuring at sea, making her 25. When the Hunter's Blades trilogy began in 1370 DR, she was 31, and it went for a year or two, apparently. She would have been 32-33 and getting past her physical prime combat-wise. Salvatore decided instead, to have her start moving into the realm of magic, though she was probably more like an Arcane Archer for a while.

When the Spellplague happened, she would have been 46. She died, eventually, and was taken by Mielikki and prepped for her reincarnation a hundred years later. As Ruqiah, her reincarnation grew up and learned magic (again) because of Shade meddling and noticing her innate talent, as well as seeking out "Chosen" of various gods. She never had the time to develop her skills in her new body, so they got very rusty. She tried using her old bow from her previous life in one of the Homecoming books, and her accuracy was pretty shit compared with her old life - she aimed at a door's hinge, and instead hit the lock.

Instead, she solidified as the magic user of the group. Considering that she was given a Staff of the Magi that then got amped to artifact level, a Ring of Fire Elemental Command, and Robes of the Archmagi, she's still a Chosen of Mielikki (and has a bunch of Druid abilities because of it), AND she's got the benefit of two lifetimes worth of magical learning now, it wouldn't make much sense for her to re-learn her archery all over again. And Drizzt's group was certainly lacking in any magic at all, Salvatore had to often rely on them getting quick access to healing potions in later books (since otherwise they'd either blitz everything without a scratch or get injuries that would put them out of commission for too long).

>>50316735
>So's Drizzt, or at least he was as of the novel The Companions. He's also a Chosen of Lolth. Lolth is insane like that.
He's neither. Mielikki likes him (a lot), and gives him special favours and looks out for him, but he's not Chosen, that's Catti-brie. He's a follower of her, that's all.

He's not a Chosen of Lolth, either. He was named a Champion of Lolth at one point as part of a scheme, but in the very next book that was admitted to be horseshit and mockery on the part of the actual Chosen of Lolth naming him.

>>50319144
Fair enough.

Side note, anyone else really wish that the reincarnated Companions, while still reincarnations of Drizzt's friends, were new and distinct people who had just been "pushed" throughout their lives by their previous selves to go save Drizzt?

Because I think I would have preferred that. More story opportunity.

...side note, how many people has Mielikki Chosen? She's got Cattie-Brie, Jeryth Paulkon, and is fighting with Lolth over Drizzt.

>>50319223
Just two, Catti-brie and Jeryth.

I kind of liked that the reincarnations were the same people, because it does raise valid questions (shame that they weren't expanded on). Like, if their minds/souls, as it seemed from the books, were being transplanted at the point of birth, what happened to the minds of who they were before then? Did they really, genuinely replace new lives with their own? They grew up to closely resemble their previous selves, but how much of that was Mielikki tampering? Did they unknowingly murder those who should have been born in their place?

I think Regis probably got the best story development out of the choice, too. He got upgrades and very definitely pushed himself to be a lot more than he was. Wulfgar got pretty much nothing except his new decision to fuck his way down from Icewind Dale, through the Sword Coast, then east to Aglarond. No real development at all. Bruenor's was a bit lacklustre as well, but passable. Catti-brie was definitely the most important one, though, I think. Salvatore clearly put a lot more into her story than he did the other three.

>>50319283
>Did they unknowingly murder those who should have been born in their place?

Maybe (and Wulfgar murdered two, if that's the case...), though I would have preferred the other angle, that they were distinct people who were "pushed" by their previous lives to go and aid Drizzt, and having done that and having learned that it was all due to the influence of their previous lives, they'd end up questioning a lot about themselves and whether or not they're really Drizzt's friends, or each other's, even as Drizzt has to deal with people who look like his old friends and sometimes act like his old friends and are probably even his old friends reincarnated...but does that actually make them his old friends?

>>50319283
>>50319375
Wat? Murdered those who should have been born in their place?

>>50319182
Who was the actual Chosen of Lolth?

Why did Mielikki choose Catti-brie over Drizzt? Was that to also ensure her rebirth?

>>50309274
Because he was talking to someone who could unmake all of reality.
Remember Helm also killed Mystra for attempting to flee the time of troubles.

>>50322378
He was under direct orders from Ao to prevent the depowered deities returning to the outer planes.

He subsequently caught a lot of flak for doing so and his faith suffered a lot.
Ao was colossal dick tying number of worshippers to a deity's divine rank - Ao used Helm as an attack dog and then caused him to be depowered.

>>50322475
>>50322378
I always did wonder, why did Ao not send Helm to deal with Waukeen then?
Or was Ao just thinking "Eh, she's tied up in Graz'zt's sex dungeon, even if she does make it out of there she's not going to bother me again."

>>50322378
>Remember Helm also killed Mystra for attempting to flee the time of troubles.
Ao is such a dick, he should know Mystra is the only one maintaining the Weave and killing her will cause extreme amounts of devastation to Toril, as much as was caused when Karsus killed her first incarnation.

>>50322497
Ao is widely inconsistent in his mandates, but mostly is just a superdick especially when he's teaching the deities a lesson.

>>50322593
>Ao is such a dick, he should know Mystra is the only one maintaining the Weave and killing her will cause extreme amounts of devastation to Toril, as much as was caused when Karsus killed her first incarnation.
lolno

Karsus's Avatar murdered magic over 9th level for everyone everywhere. It's outright stated that in Netheril's day, there were spells of 10th, 11th, 12th, and higher levels that were unique, both in power and effect. When Karsus accidentally Mystra, that was undone forever as both effect and punishment.

When Helm "accidentally" Mystra, nothing of that scale came even close to happening. Her essence was held by mortals and eventually Midnight, reincarnating her under Lord Ao's new rules. Magic did not suffer nearly as much as it did after Karsus's mistake (some wild magic and dead magic zones are nothing compared to the loss of Netheril's heights).

Besides, with Karsus it was a choice without knowing the effects it would have, a legit accident (if a terrible one). With Helm, he was under strict orders from his superior, despite knowing the consequences. The blame for the Time of Troubles lays squarely at Ao's feet, not Helm's (the thieves of the Tablets of Fate are greatly to blame too, to be fair).

>>50323007
>Karsus's Avatar murdered magic over 9th level for everyone everywhere. It's outright stated that in Netheril's day, there were spells of 10th, 11th, 12th, and higher levels that were unique, both in power and effect. When Karsus accidentally Mystra, that was undone forever as both effect and punishment.
That is also not entirely true, Elminster has spell slots above 9th, but the ability to cast such spells was taken away from normal mortals yes.

>>50323069
The slots exist but the spells don't. The slots exist for lots of people actually (Larloch, Szass Tam, Elminster, I think Manshoon, etc) but there's nothing unique to fill them with, only metamagic'd spells in 3e and I think nothing in 2e.

>>50323069
>>50323119
Don't all of these chars still have epic spellcasting?

>>50322378
>>50322475
>>50322497
>>50322593
>>50323007
This is what we get when we have gods who have the anger issues of infants and toddlers.

>>50318095
I liked the Time of Troubles as a setting event also, but the book series was poorly written.

>>50315085
>Pharaun Mizzrym best Drow Male.


My niggest

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>>50323547
Only the Simbul and Iyraclea, a cleric of Auril.

Everyone else has the Improved Spell Capacity feat.

There's a few people in Power of Faerun with Epic Spellcasting.

>>50322281
According to Out of the Abyss, Quenthel Baenre, Matron Mother of House Baenre, is probably "the" Chosen of Lolth.

>>50315085
>>50325631
Defo af. Just for that, will be breaking out the first three books in the series.

>>50322281
Not every deity actually has a Chosen.
Chosen represent a considerable investment of power on part of the deity (Mystra breaks the rules on several ways, and she isn't entirely in control of all her power anyway without wildly destabilizing magic on Faerun), and so many don't create them because if they loose one it's basically a shitload of power dumped into a mortal for nothing.

As of 5e it seems like Chosen are even rarer because that's about as much deific power that ever gets on Faerun and they don't send nearly as many avatars anymore.

>>50322475, >>50322593 >>50322497
Ao is basically the Superdeity of Editorial Bullshit; all of his decisions and mandates come out of fucking nowhere and make everything needlessly more complicated and stupid, none of them make sense and there's no good explanation for most of them other then "because I said so".

It's kind of notable that as of 5e the Tablets of Fate are gone and Ao seems to have thus kinda exploded.

>>50326797
Ao exploded?

>>50326873
To be precise, when the Tablets of Fate were destroyed and most of 4e's major changes to geography and deity lists were undone he seemed to basically not be around anymore.

>>50326921
What'll happen now that they've kinda-retconned the 4e changes?

>>50296678
I have a lot of nostalgia for that book.

>>50322281
Yvonnel Baenre is one, Quenthel Baenre is the other. Yvonnel went full heretic and started directly disobeying orders and even got one of the yochlol handmaidens killed, so whether Lolth will continue to answer her prayers for spells or similar is questionable as of the end of the Homecoming series. Might leave Quenthel as the only one.

Why Mielikki chose Catti-brie is unclear, but it might have had something to do with that strand of the Weave that landed in her during the Spellplague. Or it might have been to ensure her rebirth, since the process relied a lot on Catti-brie.

>>50323007
Technically, it was Mystryl. Because 10th+ level magic drains so much power from the Weave (versus epic magic/true dweomers, which in theory relies multiple people and/or the caster's own life force), without Mystryl in those brief moments of Karsus' ascent to godhood, there was nobody to maintain it, so the Weave collapsed. He picked the worst possible deity to steal power from, frankly, and it resulted in the collapse of Netheril because magic ended everywhere.

When she reincarnated as Mystra, she made alterations to the Weave that changed how those spells work, and it became much more difficult to cast them. It CAN still be done, but mortals need to work out how, and there's still a chance of failure. Some of her Chosen have worked it out (Elminster and the Srinshee are confirmed), and the Magister has the knowledge by default (and the authority to cast a single 10th level or higher spell perfectly, at the price of surrendering their office and title immediately afterwards), but they aren't the only ones who can, there are others. Most simply believe it can't be done anymore, and frankly, Mystra is quite happy to let them believe that.

When Helm killed Mystra, her essence was already maintained elsewhere. Her Chosen as anchors, Azuth holding a bit more, and Midnight holding a majority of it. Having Chosen was definitely a useful thing in that case.

Oh, what you bros are also saying is that the Chosen, being receptacles of a god's divinity, are also an insurance policy to prevent the permanent death of a deity?

>>50327184
Mystra's are by design. Whether other Chosen work the same way isn't certain, they're usually more like people who are invested with special powers, not necessarily divine essence (because most mortals can't hold it for long without burning up), and given a direct line to their deity (if a cleric has to send letters, they get a satellite phone), in exchange for acting out the god's will on the Material Plane.

>>50327184
Seems that way, although there are lots of other methods as well. Just as Bane and Bhaal.

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>>50327184
Sometimes.

Drasek Riven became the new Mask since Erevis Cale didn't want it.
Tchazzar became Tiamat during the Avatar Crisis.

>>50327102
>When she reincarnated as Mystra, she made alterations to the Weave that changed how those spells work, and it became much more difficult to cast them. It CAN still be done, but mortals need to work out how, and there's still a chance of failure. Some of her Chosen have worked it out (Elminster and the Srinshee are confirmed), and the Magister has the knowledge by default (and the authority to cast a single 10th level or higher spell perfectly, at the price of surrendering their office and title immediately afterwards), but they aren't the only ones who can, there are others. Most simply believe it can't be done anymore, and frankly, Mystra is quite happy to let them believe that.
Sources on that? I've never seen that in any system nor heard it ever. I'd love to be wrong on this one, please show me where it is said that 10th level+ spells still exist somewhere and can actually be cast.

>>50327913
Secrets of the Magister, 2E source, pages 91-92.

I believe the reference to the Srinshee and Elminster having 10th level spell knowledge is from The Fall of Myth Drannor (also 2E). Larloch has true 10th level spells as well, per Greenwood's answers to fan questions.

>>50328007
Even with all the changes to magic as of 5th Edition? I would assume that, particularly with the Sundering and the drastic reduction in the power of magic throughout Toril, that even Larloch, Elminster, and Szas Tam, and all the other high-level mages would now be "only" 20th level wizards with 20th level slots, nothing more.

Larloch also has an additional problem to deal with, namely, that liches now need to eat souls on a regular basis; that is, he can't just camp out in Warlock's Crypt for decades at a time anymore, he needs to regularly leave or at least send out agents to bring him food.

>>50328007
Well I'll be damned. I'll take it. Thanks for the sauce, friendpal. I choose to believe that a few others have the power as well (elven high mages, Aumvor the Undying, etc). That's entering my Realms canon now.

>>50328073
Elminster, Larloch and so on are probably packing the equivalent of blessings and epic boons. Elminster's actually stopped using spells as much, now he manipulates the Weave directly instead (apparently Khelben used to do it more and better, though), but he and Laeral have both admitted that they're weaker now. Their bodies falling apart on them is part of it, and Mystra restricting certain magic from them (mind control, mind scouring, etc.) is another. Whether that translates to complete loss of 10th level spells or not is unclear.

Larloch was revealed as Chosen of Mystryl in the Sundering series. What more that means for him is unknown.

>>50327913
>>50328007
>>50328073
>>50328113
>>50328178
Do these chars adhere to Mystra's restrictions or do they all get leeway?

>>50328233
Larloch had true 10th level spells by Mystra's grace, so he wasn't subject to the restrictions.

Elminster and the rest have to follow the rules when they cast them. The Magister is allowed a one-off freebie, which will also end their tenure as Magister.

>>50328178
>Larloch was revealed as Chosen of Mystryl in the Sundering series.
I'd think that wouldn't mean anything now, since Mystryl has been dead for quite some time. I don't feel like that Chosen status would carry over between Mystryl and Mystra.

Fucking Karsus, ruining everything.

>>50328292
The way he acted, he still had the knowledge, some/most of the power, and actively held the essence. So it might.

>>50328341
Huh. Chosen status legit never goes as long as the god is alive, in any form? How interesting. Larloch is perhaps a special case. Do we have any examples of other unusual Chosen (Amamunator or Ibrandul or someone)?

>>50328367
The god could presumably take it away from you. Sammaster and Manshoon are examples of that.

>>50328431
Was Manshoon even a Chosen?

>>50328474
No, just a crazy motherfucker.

>>50328474
>What had been Manshoon slumped, like logs crumbling in a fire, then melted and was gone. Hard-eyed, Elminster watched his old foe whirl away into silver flame that blossomed and grew. He clawed at it with his own fire, raking as much as he could of it into himself, wresting Mystra’s power from one unworthy. One who would see other days beyond this one.
Even before an eerie wisp swirled out of that fire and raced up out of the cellar and away, El knew why destroying Manshoon was beyond him. The vampire who as a man with many bodies had ruled Westgate, and Zhentil Keep before that, and founded and led the cruel Zhentarim, had carried Mystra’s silver fire in himself for too long.

He had silver fire at one point. So yes, he was an ex-Chosen.

>>50326278
>Quenthel Baenre is Lolth's chosen.
How was this not obvious after War of the Spider Queen?

It was down to Quenthel and Danifae Yauntyrr, and it turned out Lolth liked Danifae so much that she wanted to subsume her into her being and have Danifae become her chosen drow avatar form, thus leaving Quenthel the obvious chosen.

>>50328113
Elven High Mages cast high magic, not 10th+ level spells. Similarly powerful effects, but they work differently, and conventionally (araevin teshurr and the ancient elves of arcorar and house dlardrageth notwithstanding) are powered by the lifeforce of the mage, and are thus cast by many high mages so the spells can be cast and they can recover from the casting, without it killing them.

>>50328870
Quenthel completely got the better part of the deal, her self wasn't subsumed.

>>50329046
Yes. Yes she did. Pretty sureit suggested she was happy Lolth preferred Danifae as soon as she realized being the preferred pick meant not existing anymore.

>>50329155
She was at first disgusted, then realised and went "oh, okay then" instead.

>>50328870
>>50329046
>>50329155
>>50329193
Wasn't Eilistraee also immensely interested in Danifae?
Guess she got the raw end of the deal.

>>50329673
Eilistraee wasn't personally I don't think.

Eilistraee was interested in Halisstra Melarn, whom Lolth turned into her champion, the Lady Penitent.

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>>50329673
Only because Danifae was a Yor'thae like the others.

If Lolth thinks she was valuable, then she's worth converting away.

These threads have been pretty great, not gonna lie.

>>50329989
Agreed. I like these FR Lore threads, despite the haters.

>>50328656
Yes he was. He was made a Chosen at the end of Elminster Must Die.

>>50327399
Mask just gave up his divinity just like that?
Are they planning on reverting Mask back to his original personality or is Drasek permanently taking over?
Will Drasek keep his name or become Mask in everything?

What editions are people using to play with or played with in their Realms games?

>>50330293
2e, because fuck WotC's bullshit.

>>50330293
I play second or third edition only.

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>>50330265
It's complicated. He had to give it up to hide it from Shar.

At the end of the Twilight War trilogy, the divine essence that was stolen from Mask by Kesson Rel (Sharran Cleric) was split between Erevis Cale, Drasek Riven, and Rivalen Thantul.

Erevis Cale made a deal with Mephistopheles to give him "what Kesson Rel stole" so he and his friends could escape Hell. Mephistopheles killed him to seize the divine essence, but it was trapped in Cania where he couldn't get to it.

Rivalen Thantul used his essence to delay the Shadowstorm, but was bound to the remains of Ordulin.

Drasek Riven received parts of Mask's plan and Cale's sword, which he gave to Vasen Cale.

Mask was devoured by Shar to continue the Cycle of Shadows.

Around the time of the Sundering, Mephistopheles still hadn't gotten the divine essence and Drasek was acting as the god of shadows. Vasen and his friends freed Erevis from Hell, defeated Rivalen, and stopped the Shadowstorm for good. Afterwards, when the three divine essences were united, Drasek took it because Erevis didn't want it.

What is the exact problem about FR lore in 3.5?

>>50330293
2nd, with some bits lifted from the grey box.

>>50330360
It's mostly okay. But basically 2e hinted that faerun was advancing quickly, technologically speaking, with guns and steam engines becoming more and more common.

3e scrapped all of that and just reverted the tech to more or less early 2e levels.

Plus the stuff at the tail end of 3 was leading into spellplague crap and killing off/merging droves of gods, just 'cause.

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>>50330293
The last time I did, I used 3.0 with Pathfinder.

The next game I run, I'll start with the Threat from the Sea trilogy, and Pathfinder with more firearms, psionics, and steam engines.

The Spellplague won't happen, and the PCs will help Tchazzar reunite Chessenta.

>>50330293
>Pathfinder mechanics
>2e+3e setting

No one seems to be using 5e rules for FR.
Top fucking kek.

>>50330494
You got five replies, man.

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>>50330494
Those people are in the 5E thread: >>50321808

>>50330508
>>50330510
Not that guy, but good to know.

>>50330446
>Threat from the Sea
Fuck me, this was a good series.

>>50330494
Well, there's just the SCAG out, not even a full world map, so there's little point in using 5E as of yet.

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>>50330624
>not even a full world map
Was there ever another one made of the whole planet after the FRIE?

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>>50330619
The campaign will start in Chessenta a few days after the Sharksbane Wall is destroyed.

I'll probably start the PCs at level 4 with Pathfinder and Path of War rules.

>>50330410
My group 3.5 plays in 1370 agreeing that spellplague didnt and wont happen. But amnian colonies and exotic wares from matzika are cool. Just like lantan people inventing bombards and arquebuses using magical explosive powder made by gnomes. In 3ed books you actually can have a pistol as a starting weapon while playing a gnome. Current bad guy connected to my shadow thieves centered campaign in amn loves using guns and pkayers will have one after dealing with him. I cant wait for their reaction.

>>50330649
Not that I remember. In fact, I'm not entirely sure that 4E got even that traditional Spine of the World/Moonshaes/Chult/Thay-and-environs big map the other editions put out.

Dear Oghma, I wish those 1E/2E style giant poster maps made a comeback. And that transparent hex overlay.

>>50330686
Have the PCs discovered chocolate and sugar cane?

What might be a good god to convert an avatar to 5e?

>>50330810
Not yet. But our halfling slingmaster fighter develops tobacco addiction.

>>50330810
>>50331301
Can cancer be cured by magic.

>>50331314
It might require something more powerful than Remove Disease.

>>50331368
Maybe it's less disease and more a corruption of the body.

Am intrigued by all these changes to the deities, does a synopsis exist of the changes somewhere?

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>>50331695
Nothing official. Just some posts on Candlekeep and the Forgotten Realms wiki.

>>50331368
The spell of Greater Restoriation is actually restoring target to its natural state. Which means that for example lost limbs will regrow. So i think that such spell could remove severe damage that cancer does.

>>50330293
5th Edition. It's like 3rd Edition, but more balanced; or 2nd Edition, but more interesting.

>>50332070
>2nd Edition, but more interesting.
>has no mechanical content
>has no fluff content
>more interesting

>>50332070
>>50332088
Ho boy.

>>50332070
>>50332088
>>50332105
>3e-flavoured shitpost

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>>50332088
Here is a side-by-side comparison of the Fighter from 5e and a Fighter from 2e.

Note how with the 5e Fighter you have *far* more things to do as you level up, whereas in 2e all you get are mechanical increases to your THAC0 or saves for the most part.

>>50332423
You forgot to map all the extra attacks you get as a 2e Fighter.

>>50296678
>Forgotten Realms General
Was this general always a thing? Because I don't remember ever seeing it before these last two threads.

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>>50332423
Oh, also note that the proficiencies that I elected to include in the 2e Fighter, which give it the most interesting stuff to do outside of combat as it levels, is an optional rule requiring DM permission, not even part of a core game.

A 5e Fighter without feats still gets to make a lot of choices to customize his fighter as he levels up; a 2e Fighter gets literally nothing but mechanical increases to statistics.

Hence why I say 5e is "more interesting" than 2e.

>>50332440
You don't get extra attacks without specializing into weapons via weapon proficiencies; or via weapons that are just faster.

Or if you do I can't find where it's listed in my AD&D PHB; it's certainly not in the Fighter's class entry, in any event. That just devotes time to telling you about followers.

And regardless, it wouldn't affect my fundamental point, that 5e gives you more options as a Fighter than 2e ever did.

>>50332446
I think it's a relatively recent development.

>>50332459
2e is an OSR game, which means that the way all that shit works is 'Hey DM, I want to do X' 'OK player, roll Y'.

>you have to have proficiencies to be able to do things out of combat
Oh dear. You're one of those people.

>>50332477
Have you even opened the PHB you moron? It's Table 15, right under the Warrior XP table. And you can get even more if your DM is using the optional rule that allows you to make [your level] in attacks per round against creatures with <1 HD.

>5e gives you more options as a Fighter than 2e ever did.
>than 2e ever did
Seeing as the Complete Fighter's Handbook and Combat and Tactics exist, I'm going to go with 'no'.

>>50332514
>which means that the way all that shit works is 'Hey DM, I want to do X' 'OK player, roll Y'.

Hey, funnily enough, that's how it works in 5e too, dingus. Proficiencies, however, give you a greater chance of success in both 2e and 5e.

DM fiat has nothing to do with class. We're discussing whether 2e or 5e provides more options from a mechanical perspective, not whether or not a game of "Mother may I" is better in 2e or 5e.

>Oh dear. You're one of those people.

No, I'm not. What I am is a person who's noting that without the optional Proficiency rules, a 2e Fighter gets absolutely no customization options. Your 5th-level Fighter and my 5th-level Fighter are, mechanically, the same Fighter, with perhaps a minor difference in hit point total.

Conversely two 5e Fighters of equal level, even without the Feat rules and even with the same ability scores, can be very different from each other.

>>50332605
>Your 5th-level Fighter and my 5th-level Fighter are, mechanically, the same Fighter, with perhaps a minor difference in hit point total.
You know that doesn't translate to 'not interesting' right?

>>50332553
>It's Table 15, right under the Warrior XP table.

Christ that think is tiny, no wonder I missed it (I tend to roll up thieves). Very well, imagine that there was an extra attack on the table above at 7th level and 13th level.

Again, it hardly changes my point, that the 5e Fighter is more mechanically interesting than the 2e Fighter. To say nothing of the other classes.

>Seeing as the Complete Fighter's Handbook and Combat and Tactics exist, I'm going to go with 'no'.

Optional rules really shouldn't be included. I was being generous as-is with the proficiencies and only included them at all because they're included in the AD&D PHB directly.

>>50332665
It certainly isn't a point in its favor, however. Besides which, in my original post on the matter I said that 5e was "more" interesting, not that 2e was uninteresting.

You can create an interesting backstory and characterization and motives and goals for your Fighter in 2e AD&D, but you can do that in 5e, too, AND you can mechanically differentiate yourself from other fighters while doing so without relying on optional rules.

>>50332668
>Christ that think is tiny, no wonder I missed it
>a box with a bright red outline is easy to miss
It's bigger than the block that explains to you what a prime requisite is.

> To say nothing of the other classes.
Next I bet you're going to tell me that a 2e thief makes a loud noise if he fails is Move Silently heck.

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There, I edited in the extra attacks at 7th and 13th levels. The 2e Fighter technically gets yet another at 21st level as well.

>>50332735
That's not quite correct. You don't get an extra attack per round at level 7, you get an extra attack per other round.

>>50332711
>Next I bet you're going to tell me that a 2e thief makes a loud noise if he fails is Move Silently heck.

Well if he fails his Move Silently check he certainly isn't moving silently enough and was heard, else what is the failure suppose to represent?

>"When a rogue tries to use a special ability, a percentile dice roll determines whether the attempt succeeds or fails. If the dice roll is equal to or less than the special ability score, the attempt succeeds. Otherwise, it fails."

>"A thief can try to move silently at any time simply by announcing that he intends to do so. [...] The DM rolls percentile dice to determine whether the thief is moving silently; the thief always THINKS he is being quiet."

>>50332802
If he fails his MS check he's not being silent, he's just being regular quiet. It's not that he was heard, it's that he can be heard. That's why you roll MS when you start moving silently, even if there isn't anybody around to hear, as opposed to only rolling when somebody cna hear you.

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>>50332757
Fine, whatever. It's tangential to my actual point anyway.

>>50302476
NwN2, particularly MotB. I went through the expansion first.

>>50302476
I'm playing BG2 right now. I did play plenty of nwn and nwn2 over the years, but BG2 still has something special in it, so I think I can call it my definite favorite.

Also I never really played around with dual classing before, so it's a whole new fun ride.

Something really funny happened by chance in my game right now. I was in that spellhold room where there are three clay golems that attack you, in a vault that completely shuts itself down when you open a chest. So I remembered that that was kind of tough, and rested. And my charname, who just got the kensai levels reactivated after a long dual class down time as a useless thief, went slayer form. And instead of going after my party, my character just two-shot all of the golems one by one. Very surprising moment, but I took what I got.