Lifespan in Holy Terrans.

>>50288894
Imperial nobles tend to be able to afford stuff like rejuvenation treatments, making them appear much younger than they actually are, whilst staving off the worst side effects of aging.

>>50288894

First off you got your numbers wrong. Noone is "tens of thousands years old". The Emperor was born in -8000 BC but he's been definately not alive for the last 10000 years. Also he managed to achieve his great age due to hum being god-level psychic construct, not through xeno tech.

Space Marines are not mutants, they are geneticaly modified and enginiereed, alse primarch geeneseed does things to them.

With regural mortals, it is something called rejuvant tratments. Only the richest and most powerful can afford it, we're talking inquisitors, rogue traders, governors, members of Knight Houses. It's effects vary but we're talking about prelonging one's life from 30-50 years aboe human standard to some Inquisior Lords living for 300-400 years or even longer.

>>50288912
>>50289110
So Normal Humies can expect, at the very most, to extend their lifespans to 300-400 years?

Aight. I can work with that.

>>50289110
>achieve his great age due to hum being god-level psychic construct

The Emperor is a part of a group of immortals called the perpetual. He is not a psychic construct anymore than the other Perpetuals are.

>>50289222
There is an Inquisitor who made it to 1000+ before being killed by the Grand Master of Imperial assassins.

You know, this was something I had always wondered about, but never really bothered looking into. Glad I stumbled into this thread.

>>50289248
Did he do it through the aforementioned rejuvenation treatments, or cybernetics, orrr... what?

It seems like if inquisitors live long enough they'd just become too stubborn to die.

>>50289248 Not that anon but;
Anon, he is not a perpetual, the emperor can be killed, and it technically even happened when he almost killed himself to completely destroy Horus from this world plus warp.

The big E is a "psychic construct" made by ritualistic suicide

>>50289260
He was locked in a power armor suit that pumped his body with some kind of gas that sustained his body.

>>50289268
>Anon, he is not a perpetual

He is. John Grammaticus comments on it. The Emperor even had perpetual friends who accompanied him on ancient Earth and beyond.

>the emperor can be killed,

So what? Perpetuals can be killed too. Guess what it takes? copious amounts of warp energy. The Emperor was even said by one of his Perpetual allies to be especially vulnerable against the power of the Chaos Gods.

Just for facts said most the Perts died in the HH.
>The big E is a "psychic construct" made by ritualistic suicide

I don't think so.

>>50289308
facts sake*

>>50289277
Interesting.

>>50289308
Interesting.

Could this potentially mean that the Perpetuals may have presence among other races? Because The Beast of the orks struck me as absurdly powerful. Like an Orkish Emprah.

It wouldn't surprise me, from what I keep hearing about Emps and his shady dealings, if the Orks had a perpetual too.

>>50289308
>>The big E is a "psychic construct" made by ritualistic suicide
>I don't think so.
Anon, thats literally his creation history; How a huge number of psykers on ancient Terra united and comited suicide to be reborn as the big E

>>50289344
A perpetual will literally reassemble himself from the atoms that made him, there haven't been a single orc like that in the lore. Btw there are only 8 know perpetuals

IIRC some of the elite who are especially afraid of death bribes the adeptus mechanicus to turn them into living mummies locked into a sarcophage which allows them a few more centuries of life with the downside that every moment is agony.

>>50289368
The 8 know perpetuals;
>Cyrene Valantion
>Anval Thawn
>Ollanius Pius
>Vulkan
>John Grammaticus
>Damon Prytanis
>Alivia Sureka
And maybe the emperor, but it has never been confirmed nor denied, we also never saw the emperor dying and coming back to life, all we know is that is is fucking old and was born from mass ritual suicide

>>50289368
>Anon, thats literally his creation history; How a huge number of psykers on ancient Terra united and comited suicide to be reborn as the big E

In the old lore. The new lore speaks nothing of this and goes against it.

>>50289374
Isn't that basically the whole process of putting a space marine in a dreadnought sarcophagus except they don't have the mental fortitude to not go insane from the pain?

>>50289374
Don't they get linked into '""""""virtual reality"""""" or some 80's similar idea?

>>50289390
John Grammaticus confirms it.

>>50289344
There are natural born perpetuals like the Emperor, Olly, and Alivia sureka.

And there are artificial ones like John and Damon.

>>50289409
>John Grammaticus confirms it.
"citation needed"

>>50289390
>Vulkan
Wait, what the Salamanders Primarch? How did that happen? Did Big E do that on purpose or did he just oops an immortal 'son'?

>>50289424
" Know No Fear" novel. John's conversation with Olly.

>>50289431
Oops, immortal son

>>50289395

Different anon here - 40k lore often contradicts itself, but I am sure the general consenus and the story about shamanic suicide is still canon. The fact it has not been repeated doesn't mean it's retconned, stories about Emperor's genesis ware always scarse.

>>50289779
Newer lore trumps older. The HH series is rewriting the old lore so sticking to something that wasn't referenced and is actively being contradicted by the newer material is silly.

>>50289819
It hasn't been retconned though has it. There has yet to be an explanation of the Emperors birth/life before he conquered Terra. So whats your angel? Just fishing for (you)s?

>>50289857
It has.

The old fluff says he was born powerful and godlike. In the HH series, we know that he wasn't always a godlike dude.

Furthermore, we have him being a group of folks called the True Perpetuals. Outside of resistance to Chaos corruption and some psychic abilities, they didn't exhibit any of the might that the Emperor gained in Molech from making a deal with the Chaos Gods.

We know for a fact that the Emperor with Aliviia went to Molech as fellow Perpetual and the Emperor left there a godlike being. This alone disproves the Shaman thing.

>>50289922
>In the HH series, we know that he wasn't always a godlike dude.

Post you proof. We know he still beat up the void dragon on mars in like the medieval period right? So?

>We know for a fact that the Emperor with Aliviia went to Molech as fellow Perpetual
Post proof for you claims. I've read Vengeful it doesn't say that at all.

File: doomguy.jpg (228KB, 940x529px) Image search: [Google]

228KB, 940x529px

>perpetuals regenerate themselves
...

Doom Marine canon when.

>>50289958
>We know he still beat up the void dragon

First of all, it was the vision of the shard of the Void Dragon. So if it was true or not, is a unknown. The Necron structures on Mars might indicate might have always been there.

Second, the Shard of Void Dragon (Shard power levels are similar to Greater Daemons) was injured and starved. Weakened to the point it couldn't feed itself and leave the planet. Any psyker could have bound and defeated the weakened shard. Heck, Asurman who has trouble fighting Greater daemons and daemon princes is credited to killing multiple C'tan shards.

Heck, Deathwatch Marines can take on a fully powered C'tan shard and have a chance of winning.

>Post proof for you claims.

Horus investigation. The Emperor needed a ship to get to Molech. When he got what he wanted, he used his new powers to teleport out of there.

>>50289958
Not even that anon, but, dude, stop grasping at straws. You are neither the first nor the last fan who had a piece of their favourite lore retconned.
Accept it with dignity and move on.

>>50289996
Also there is old fluff that says that the Chaos Gods recognized the Emperor as their top enemy when he was born and tried to hinder and stop him. And later he used his own power and knowledge to create the primarchs.

It's proven that this us bullshit. The Chaos Gods wouldn't have shared their knowledge and power with their mortal enemy. Also the Emperor used their power and knowledge to create the primarchs, not his own.

>>50289996
>The Emperor needed a ship to get to Molech. When he got what he wanted, he used his new powers to teleport out of there.
The story from Horus and the ship doesn't even match the story from the villagers. Believe the 'truth' from Horus's mouth about the Emperor? Really?

>First of all, it was the vision of the shard of the Void Dragon. So if it was true or not, is a unknown.
We don't have specific no, but we do know that it happened. There is a 'void dragon' on Mars. So your claim that he was just a normal perpetual is unjustified. You were claiming that HH fluff makes the New Man fluff obsolete when it clearly doesn't. When ABD's Emps book comes out we may get more info but as is right now there is no reason the older fluff is retconned as we had no information about that time period from BL.

>>50290002
>Not even that anon, but, dude, stop grasping at straws.
>Discussing fluff on my /tg/
>Not on my watch!

Ur a fgt m8

>>50290002
Not even that other dude but wtf?? Why would they do that? It's stupid and silly his shamanistic suicide is one of the coolest things about the emperor. I mean, cmon. What's cooler than ritualistic suicide in order to gain powers far beyond anything anyone could ever dream of. I sincerely hope that the new lore isn't contradicting this and he's just a hater.. I'm getting sick of GW killing all the awesome parts of old canon.

>>50290055
Please be right dude.. please

>>50290055
>The story from Horus and the ship doesn't even match the story from the villagers.

Don't lie, anon. The story matched the records on the stasis planet.

>Believe the 'truth' from Horus's mouth about the Emperor? Really?

First it was don't believe daemons. Now it's don't believe Horus because I said so. The other anon is right you are grasping at straws.

Furthermore, tell me what did Horus, Mort, and Fulgrim see when the Angel of Fire was destroyed.

>We don't have specific no, but we do know that it happened. There is a 'void dragon' on Mars.

There is a shard of the Void Dragon there. We don't know when it got there and it's possible that it has always been there.

>So your claim that he was just a normal perpetual is unjustified.

Not really.

You wanted to show that the Emperor was all powerful by citing an uncertain vision from a shard of the Void Dragon. When we know that shards are basically at G-daemon level strength and this one wasn't due to its injuries and starvation. Capable psykers have been able to bound daemons at their full strength. Defeating and bounding this shard of the Void Dragon should not be difficult. So if you want to take the shard vision as truth, then the fact that the vision shows the Emperor struggling against the weakened Shard and being utterly tired by the ordeal proves that the Emperor himself was weak at the time.

His power levels were much much below that of Ahriman and Tiggers who combatted Greater Daemons and enslaved them without breaking a sweat. Heck, Ahriman, in a battle of will and wit,nearly bound the greatest and most powerful of all daemon princes Be'lakor.

So the Emperir is indeed a normal guy with some psychic powers.

>You were claiming that HH fluff makes the New Man fluff obsolete when it clearly doesn't.

It does.

>When ABD's Emps book comes out we may get more info but as is right now

ADB said that we won't reveal anything about the Emperor. Only McNeil is keen on it.

>>50289431
Well, when you shout
>VULKAN LIVES!
at enough orks... sometimes things just happen.

>>50290092
Fluff as written these days the Emperor dealt with the warp to create the Primarchs. People take it too far when they claim that the Emperor got all his power from them on the vague words of a certain character and then the words of several demons.

Horus himself was getting played by the gods to accept their 'gifts' so taking his words as truthful seems odd to me.

>>50290122
> as we had no information about that time period from BL

We do.

The Emperor and Alivia visited Molech long before the conquest of Terra.

>>50290084
>What's cooler than ritualistic suicide in order to gain powers far beyond anything anyone could ever dream of.

Perpetuals.

>>50290124
>People take it too far when they claim that the Emperor got all his power from them on the vague words of a certain character

The Emperor wasn't a "god" when he came to Molech. By taking the power of the Chaos Gods he could no longer confront them directly. Enter Alivia Sureka to the rescue.

By the way, she said he stole their power. Why would knowledge cause the Emperor to be vulnerable to the Chaos Gods?

>Horus himself was getting played by the gods to accept their 'gifts

Except the revelation happened before entering the gateway and meeting the Chaos Gods. Stuff like this makes me sure you peoplee didn't read the books.

>>50289397
I don't think so as the dreadnaught pilots aren't transformed into living jerky from my Knowledge. Allthough it wouldn't surprise me if the sarcophagus is related to the ones dreadnaught pilots are entombed in. Being entombed in a dreadnaught also seems to give you close to, if not an immortal life span.

>>50290122
>The story matched the records on the stasis planet.
No it didn't.

>First it was don't believe daemons. Now it's don't believe Horus because I said so.
Your saying this like its not obvious to never trust demons? Are you a TS fan lol? And Horus was getting majorly played by the gods. Of course his information is off. Mind you your are to believe what ever you want. If you want to prove me wrong however just post your sources and we can talk about them.

>We don't know when it got there and it's possible that it has always been there.
Read Mechanicus.

>You wanted to show that the Emperor was all powerful by citing an uncertain vision from a shard of the Void Dragon.
>So the Emperir is indeed a normal guy with some psychic powers.
No. I thought you were missing the point. We have sources that prove the Emperors shaman origins. You are the one trying to prove that this isn't true. YOU are. You are the one claiming the retcon remember?

>>50290145
>The Emperor wasn't a "god"
The Emperor was never a God nor did he claim to be. He was however a singular individual becuaseof his birth.

>Why would knowledge cause the Emperor to be vulnerable to the Chaos Gods?
Temptation, fear, risk of being caught out, desire to avoid the Gods place of strength. Pick any or several or come up with your own. The reason it self isn't stated in the book.

>>50289390
Does the 40k setting seriously have a near-god entity called Grammaticus? Wow.

>>50290189
>No it didn't.

Yep, it did. It confirms that the Emperor visited the planet twice. First time he visited and left his ship behind and teleported out. The ship became a structure on the planet. You are just proving that you ddn't read the book.

>And Horus was getting majorly played by the gods. Of course his information is off. Mind you your are to believe what ever you want. If you want to prove me wrong however just post your sources and we can talk about them.

No, you are dismissing Horus just because "I said so" when the Chaos God didn't even whisper to him or show him anything the whole duration.

And the fact that you evaded the question about the Angel of Fire destruction is very telling. Because it's at the core of all of this.

>Read Mechanicus.

I did.

>No. I thought you were missing the point.

No, you are the one missing by the point. By citing the shard of Coid Dragon business you proved that the Emperor was weak at the time. It's point against you.

I already provided proof from the novels. Being curious about whether you actually read them, I withholding them until I figure you out.

>The Emperor was never a God nor did he claim to be. He was however a singular individual becuaseof his birth.

He attained godlike powers from Molech. That's what I meant. Don't be an idiotic fanboy, you knew what I meant.

>Temptation, fear, risk of being caught out, desire to avoid the Gods place of strength. Pick any or several or come up with your own. The reason it self isn't stated in the book.

Again, you lie.

It's said that because the Emperor stole their power it would be suicide to draw close to the being he stole his power from. He couldn't seal the Gateway of the Gods because of this.

>>50290237
>Grammaticus
>near-godlike

He is just a luckless dude who thinks the Emperor is a jerk.

>>50290248
Oh, okay.

>‘What do you mean?’ asked Fulgrim.

>‘I mean that some of the oldest Dwellers came from Molech, and they remember the Emperor’s first appearance on their world.’

>‘First?’ said Fulgrim.

>Mortarion gripped Silence tightly. ‘He had been there before? When?’

>‘If I’m interpreting the dreams of the dead right, then our father first set foot on Molech many centuries, or even millennia before the wars of Unity. He came in a starship that never returned to Earth, a starship I believe now forms the heart of the Dawn Citadel.’

>‘The Dawn Citadel… I remember that,’ said Fulgrim. ‘Yes, there was an ugly, cannibalised structure of ship parts at the end of a mountain valley! The Lion built one of his sombre castles around it did he not?’

>‘He did indeed,’ said Horus. ‘The Emperor needed a starship to reach Molech, but didn’t need it to get back. Whatever He found there made Him into a god, or as near as makes no difference.’

>‘And you think whatever that was is still there?’ said

>Fulgrim with heady anticipation. ‘Even after all this time?’

>‘Why else leave the planet so heavily defended?’ said Mortarion. ‘It’s the only explanation.’

>Horus nodded. ‘Through Arthis Varfell, I learned a great deal of Molech’s early years, together with what the four of us did there. Some of it I even remembered.’

>‘The Emperor erased your memories of Molech?’ said Abaddon, forgetting himself for a moment.

>‘Ezekyle!’ hissed Aximand.

>Abaddon’s outrage eclipsed his decorum, his choler roused as he sought to vent his anger. Beyond him, the stars were out, casting a glittering light over Tyjun. Stablights from patrolling aircraft swept the city. Some close, some far away, but none came near the skeletal structure of the dome.

>>50290291
>‘No, not erased,’ said Horus, overlooking his First Captain’s outburst. ‘Something so drastic would quickly result in a form of cognitive dissonance that would draw attention to its very existence. This was more a… manipulation, the lessening of some memories and the strengthening others to overshadow the gaps.’

>‘But to alter the memories of three entire Legions,’ breathed Fulgrim. ‘The power that would require…’

>‘So, it’s to Molech then?’ said Mortarion.

>‘Yes, brothers,’ said Horus, spreading his arms. ‘We are to follow in the footsteps of a god and become gods ourselves.’

-Vengeful Spirit

Posting excerpts from the novel to prove the anon either didn't read the novel or has selective reading.

The Emperor has been on Molech twice. This has been recorded in several reliable record holders from the Vengeful Spirit databanks and the stasis databanks of Dwell.

>>50290243
>You are just proving that you ddn't read the book.
Why do you insist on doing this? It's such a disingenuous tactic. Are you seriously incapable of understand that people have different view points from you based on the same information?

>The ship became a structure on the planet.
>The last portion of that route led to this peak, where the Stormlord had ascended on a bolt of lightning to the celestial ark that brought him to Molech.
So the story from the village is either wrong or the 'ship' was a drop pod.

>No, you are dismissing Horus just because "I said so" when the Chaos God didn't even whisper to him or show him anything the whole duration.
So Davin wasn't a thing? Horus in the BL series has almost 0 control over his future. He sold himself to Chaos and was mislead the entire way.

>the Angel of Fire
I don't know what this is. Do you mean the Guardian on Molech? Or do you mean the Red angel?

>I did.
Well fair enough. IF you don't think that showed the Emperor sealing it there nothing will.

>No, you are the one missing by the point.
>I already provided proof from the novels.
? So you are no longer claiming that the Emperors shaman origins have been retconned?

>you proved that the Emperor was weak at the time
>Implying sealing the void dragon was easy
>Implying is was just a 'small shard' wiht no information
>Implying implications with no source on such an important topic

>He attained godlike powers from Molech.
He attained the knowledge to create the Primarchs. This is from first heretic
>He came to my masters, hungry for answers, beseeching the gods for power. With the lore they gave him, he shaped his twenty sons.
This yes is from a demon funnily enough so you can take it as you will. We know that he was already godlike in your words from rogue trader and on.

>It's said that because the Emperor stole their power it would be suicide to draw close to the being he stole his power from.
Because he reneged on the deal. I'm not following?

>>50290318
>Why do you insist on doing this? It's such a disingenuous tactic. Are you seriously incapable of understand that people have different view points from you based on the same information?

Because there is gapes in your "knowledge of the book" that make you seem suspicious.

>So the story from the village is either wrong or the 'ship' was a drop pod.

See >>50290291

>I don't know what this is. Do you mean the Guardian on Molech? Or do you mean the Red angel?

There is a whole chapter called the Fire Angel. How did you miss it?

>F you don't think that showed the Emperor sealing it there nothing will.

Even the guardian said that Dragon's memories are not to be taken literal.

>? So you are no longer claiming that the Emperors shaman origins have been retconned?

But it was. I'll get posting excerpts since your knowledge is lacking and people need to know the truth.

>>Implying is was just a 'small shard' wiht no information

The Dragon is conformed shards. It's confirmed that the shard was pitifully weak.

And it's confirmed that Transcendent C'tan Shards (which are made of 12-100 normal shards and their power is greater than the sum) got beaten by things ranging from a single Vortex grenade and half a dozen dreadnoughts. The Dragon in the novel wasn't even at that level since it crawled on its belly and couldn't feed itself.

>He attained the knowledge to create the Primarchs. This is from first heretic

And power according to the revelation and Alivia.

>Because he reneged on the deal. I'm not following?

Implication is that they would rain him of his power.

>So Davin wasn't a thing?

They didn't take his mind or rip out his freewill. They only worsened the doubts and ambition in his mind.

>>50289308
>Black Library

>This cave was not entirely of this world, and whatever was keeping it anchored was fraying. Just by being here he was tugging on its loose threads. The image of bones and sinews returned, something organic, the architecture of the mind.

>‘That’s what you did here,’ he said, turning on the spot. ‘You cut through the world here and reshaped us, made us forget what we’d seen you do…’

>‘Sir?’ said Aximand.

>Horus nodded to himself. ‘This is the scab you left behind, father. Something this powerful leaves a mark, and this is it. The bruise you left behind when you shaped your lie.’

>The frayed edge pulled a little more. The scab peeled back. Ghost shapes moved through the cavern, given life by his picking at the wound in the angles of space and time. Each was numinous and smudged, like figures seen through dirty glass. They were indistinct, but Horus knew them all.

>He walked among them, smiling as though his brothers were here with him now.

>‘The Khan stood here,’ said Horus as the first figure stopped and took a knee on his left. A second figure knelt to his right.

>‘The Lion over there.’

>Horus felt himself enveloped in light, cocooned by its cold illumination. He’d retraced the steps he’d taken almost a century ago without even knowing

>Horus moved back, detaching from a rendering of his own body in ambient light. Like his spectral primarch brothers, his radiant doppelgänger knelt as a figure approached from across the lake. Gold fire and caged lightning; the Emperor without His mask.

>‘What is this?’ demanded Abaddon, his bolter raised and ready to fire. The figures were only now becoming visible to them. Horus waved their weapons down.

>‘An imprint left over from days past,’ he said. ‘A psychic figment of a shared consciousness.’

>>50290412
>The ghost of his father walked over the surface of the lake, wordlessly repeating whatever psycho-cognitive alchemy he had wrought to reshape the pathways in the minds of his sons.

>‘This is where I forgot Molech,’ said Horus. ‘Maybe here is where I will remember it.’

>Aximand raised his bolter again, aiming it at the numinous being on the water. ‘You said that thing is an echo? A psychic imprint?’

>‘Yes,’ said Horus.

>‘Then why is it boiling the lake?’

-Vengeful Spirit

Horus finding the cave in which the Emperor mind altered them to forget about Molech and its terrible truth.

>>50290380
>See >>50290291
I did see and I quoted from the book too. The story from the villager and the story Horus give were different just like I said. The villages say he ascends by lightning up to his craft. Horus claims his ship was left there. See?

>How could you possibly be unsure if i was talking about the red angel of the fire angel after reading a book like 7 years ago
Fuck me right?

>Dragon's memories are not to be taken literal.
>It's confirmed that the shard was pitifully weak.
Like I said if you don't believe mechanicus then I have nothing else I can say about it. Its about the only source on the topic and it is unclear. But claiming because xenos jobbed to marine is a book that it was easy and that the Emperor was less powerful then Ahriman? Reaching Anon, reaching.

>And power according to the revelation and Alivia.
Source Anon? All I remember Alicia saying that the Emperors thought were leaking out when he normally hides them.

>Implication is that they would rain him of his power.
Or that he'd die or be under their sway or any number of events.

>They didn't take his mind or rip out his freewill.
They pretty much did. His 180 after Davin was pretty sharp despite his previous worries. And all he does is a part of their plans. He was their main tool after all.

File: Angel of Fire.png (112KB, 510x864px) Image search: [Google]

112KB, 510x864px

Here is Horus fighting the Angel of Fire. Which the guardian the Emperor put in place to protect that planet's secrets. If it was fashioned with the same power that made the mind altering spell possible. In fact, it was the psychical manifestation of that spell.

Once it was destroyed, the spell was lifted and Horus and the Primarchs remembered everyzing.

>>50290084
I know m8.
I kind of understand GW, needing to clear up the fluff, lore and all, but the sting is still there.
For example, I hate hate hate how they just wrote off the 'your guys have an -expunged- primarch'. Just be vague, it's not nuclear science.

>>50290002
>>50290055
No need for names man, I don't like how They like throwing away lore either, but being mad about it gets you nowhere.
Just go on with your headcanon and all is well on earth again.

>>50290439
>The story from the villager and the story Horus give were different just like I said.

You mean the legend that was created by guys long AFTER the Emperor left? You are putting that against what testimony of guys who actually witnessed it.

And the fact remains that the ship is still on Molech and acts as a structure.

>Fuck me right?

Fuck you indeed. I read it the same time as you did. i have no issue remember the fight that nearly killed Horus.

>. But claiming because xenos jobbed to marine is a book that it was easy and that the Emperor was less powerful then Ahriman? Reaching Anon, reaching.

No.

It's facts, anon, facts. We can gauge the power level of Emperor then easily by seeing the power levels of the C'tan today and how they preformed

>Source Anon?

Working on it.

>Or that he'd die or be under their sway or any number of events.

They would take back their power like what they did with the other guy who robbed their power. Then kill him.

>They pretty much did. His 180 after Davin was pretty sharp despite his previous worries. And all he does is a part of their plans. He was their main tool after all.

Except for the fact that the Cabal foresaw that Horus in victory would ultimately regret his decision and cause the destruction of Chaos. And by the way, Eldrad and the ancient Ulthwe Farseers admitted that the Cabal foresight is much greater than even Eldrad's.

Also the fact that the Chaos Gods didn't want Horus to win and that they didn't want Horus to b reborn.

He still had his freewill.

>>50289819
The HH series was a mistake and its absurd to pretend otherwise.

>>‘What’s at Lupercalia?’ asked Abaddon, his voice forever burned down to a scorched rasp. ‘What did you learn from the thing in the cave’s death?’

>Horus nodded and said, ‘I remembered why the Emperor came here, what He found and why He didn’t want anyone else to know about it. Lupercalia is where I’ll find what we need to win this long war.’

>‘So what did it show you?’ asked Aximand.

>‘All in good time,’ said Horus. ‘But, first, I have a question for you, my sons. Do any of you know how life began on Old Earth?’

>No one answered, but he hadn’t expected them to; the question too far beyond their usual sphere of interaction.

>‘Sir?’ said Maloghurst. ‘What does that have to do with Molech?’

>‘Everything,’ said Horus, enjoying this rare moment to be a teacher instead of a warrior. ‘Some of Earth’s scientists believed life began as an accidental chemical reaction deep in the oceans around hydrothermal vents. A chance energy gradient that facilitated the transformation of carbon dioxide and hydrogen into simple amino acids and proto-cells. Others believed life came to Earth by exogenesis, microorganisms entombed deep in the hearts of comets travelling the void.’

>Horus walked to the edge of the lake, his warriors parting before him. He knelt and scooped a handful of water in his palm. He turned to face his sons and let it spill between his fingers.

>‘But that’s not where you and I came from,’ said Horus. ‘As it turns out, our dream didn’t begin on Earth at all.’

>>50290572
>Shock greeted the Warmaster’s pronouncement. Disbelief and confusion. Aximand felt the ground beneath him turn to shifting sand at the truth of the Warmaster’s words.

>‘Don’t you feel it, my sons?’ continued Horus. ‘Don’t you feel how special Molech is? How singular among all the worlds we have won it is?’

>Aximand found himself nodding, and saw he wasn’t the only one.

>Lupercal walked in a circle, jabbing a fist into his palm with every sentence.

>‘At the dawn of the great diaspora, the Emperor travelled here in humble guise and found the gateway to a realm of immortal gods. He offered them things only a god-in-waiting could offer, and they trusted Him. They gave Him a measure of their power, and with that power He wrought the science to unlock the mysteries of creation.’

>Horus was radiant as he spoke, as though he had already ascended to a divine plane of reality.

>‘But the Emperor had no intention of honouring His debt to the gods. He turned on them, taking their gifts and blending them with His genecraft to give birth to demigods. The Emperor condemns the warp as unnatural, but only so no other dares wield it. The blood of the immaterial realm flows in my veins. It flows in all our veins, for as I am the Emperor’s son, you are the Sons of Horus, and the secret of our genesis was unlocked upon Molech. The gateway to that power is in Lupercalia, far beneath the mountain rock. Sealed away from the light by a jealous god who knew that someday one of His sons would seek to surpass His deeds.’

>And finally Aximand understood why they had come here, why they had expended such resources and defied all military logic to follow in the footsteps of a god.

>This would be the moment they rose to challenge the Emperor with the very weapons He had kept for Himself.

>This was to be the apotheosis of them all.

-Vengeful Spirit

Horus telling all of the contents of his restored memory.

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Alivia Sureka explaining things.

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>>50290603
>The last time Alivia had climbed these particular steps, her legs were like rubber and fear sweat coated her back like a layer of frost. She’d helped him come back to the world; her arm around his waist, his across her shoulder. She’d tried to keep his thoughts – normally so impenetrable – from reaching into her, but he was too powerful, too raw and too damaged from what lay beyond the gate to keep everything inside.

>She’d seen things she wished she hadn’t. Futures she’d seen in her nightmares ever since or inked in the pages of a forgotten storybook.

>Abominable things that were now intruding on the waking world, invited in by those who hadn’t the faintest clue of what a terrible mistake they were making.

Emperor forcing himself on Alivia. Emperor confirmed rapist.

Also picture related has her confirmed that he stole power from the gods and what would happen if he came close to them.

>>50290623
Now, now, I'm no loyalist, but power incontonence is definately not the same as mind rape.

>Horus stood from the body of the dead woman.

>He wished she hadn’t died so he could ask her how she had come to be here. But she had stood against him and tried to stop him from achieving his destiny. And that was a death sentence.

>‘Who was she?’ asked Mortarion.

>‘I don’t know, but I felt the touch of father upon her.’

>‘She met Him?’

>‘Yes,’ said Horus, ‘but a long time ago I think.’

>Mortarion looked up at the gate, clearly unimpressed. Horus saw his brother’s expression and put a hand on his shoulder.

>‘Don’t underestimate what our father did here,’ said Horus. ‘He broke through into another realm, a realm no other being has breached and lived. Such a journey would make the climb to your first father’s hall seem like a pleasant stroll.’

>Mortarion shrugged. ‘I don’t much care what He did,’ he said. He tapped the butt of Silence against the body of the woman. ‘She was here to seal the gate. Do you think she succeeded?’

-Vengeful Spirit

Horus and Mort conversing over Alivia after Horus "killed" her.

random extra thing: due to the time dilation effect of warp travel, people who travel a lot can be far older chronologically than the amount of time they've personally experienced would suggest.

>>50289248
>perpetual
>>50289308
>John Grammaticus comments on it

FUCK. I hate "perpetual". This idea is pants on head retarded. I hate it.

>>50290795
And yet it perserves. Like herpes. And just like that, you need to get used to it.

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>>50290795
You know what was even more retarded?

Turing Ollanius Pius from a random IG with gravity defying ballsack into a perpetual, and retconning him into a terminator, and then retconning terminator into a Custodes.

What is what? I don't even know anymore. This is George Lucas level of fucking up what was originally gold.

FUCK GW

>The war on Molech had stoked the fires of Ezekyle’s ambitions. Not for much longer would he be satisfied with a captaincy, even a First Captaincy of the Sons of Horus. Soon he would need something grander to lead. A Legion of his own perhaps? With the power Horus now commanded and the ancient sciences of Terra, the means to create new Legiones Astartes was within his grasp.

>Why shouldn’t his greatest warriors become their own masters?

Abaddom musing over the fact that with Horus's only gained power and the sciences of Terra, it's now possible to forge new legions of Space Marines. He is drooling over the prospect of leading an entire legion himself.

>>50290840
Uh-huh, you do realise that dear Olli is now a perpetual as well, huh? And that he knows Empy from before he became fuckstrong. Is also a devout christian.

>>50290840
>Turing Ollanius Pius from a random IG with gravity defying ballsack

He never existed. He was always just an in-universe legend used to give new IG recruits a role model. Go on, try and find a source which actually depicts Ollanius Pius as a real, human character.

>A natural development, given the power that now filled him.

>Power that had almost cost him his life to obtain.

>Not that to look at him anyone would know that.

>The many hurts he had suffered to win Molech had healed years ago it seemed. It was hard to be sure. His sons told him he’d only been gone moments, how could he tell them different?

>Molech was a far distant memory to Horus now.

>He’d fought wars, slain monsters and defied gods in those moments. He’d wrested the power of those same gods at the heads of vast armies of daemons. He’d fought in battles that would rage unchecked for all eternity.

>He’d won a thousand kingdoms within the empyrean, billions of vassals to do with as he pleased, but he’d refused it. Every pleasure and prize was his for the taking, but he’d denied them all. He’d taken the power his father had taken, but he’d done so without deception.

>He’d taken it by force of arms and by virtue of his self-belief.

>There was no bargain made, no promise to honour.

>The power was his and his alone.

>Finally, after everything, Horus was a god.

-Vengeful Spirit

Horus remembering his time in the Realm of Chaos. Musing over the power he gained and the fact that he proved that he is a better man than the Emperor.

>>50290903
>Turing Ollanius Pius from a random IG with gravity defying ballsack into a perpetual

I think it's safe to assume that I have this knowledge

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>>50290906

In first version Empy fought Horus in front of the Imperial Palace, Battle Barge is already a retcon. OP comes from those long gone times

>>50290950
Well fuck me, it apears I don't know how to read.
I appologise.

>>50290989
There is nothing to appologise for, just a minor mistake

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>>50290971

Even before Vengful Spirit, It was retconned. Empy teleported to Horuses Command Bunker, OP got retconned from this version already.

>>50290994
Yea, but I did try to get a denying reaction from you since it appeared to me you didn't know about it.
So yeah. Sorry.

>>50290906
I think it's just dumb to try to include him at all. If they were going to he should have been just a dude.

>>50291032
Just because I found it funny.
This site is at least 50% about trolling after all

>>50291045
Well what can I say, arguing online while anonymous is both funny and painless.
Mistakes are mistakes tho.
Just like the ones GW makes constantly.

OP here.

The reason I asked is because I'm doing some personal writefaggotry. I was curious the technology level required of worlds to have life extension treatments. Just how old the oldest of the old could possibly live for on the world I'm setting it on.

From the looks, it's possible the oldest could possibly live a long time, but for my purposes, no one will be living hundreds of years.

>>50291141
All right, the important thing to keep in mind is the social status of the characters. Unless they are nobles, Or have a high place in the Imperial hierarchy, they will live out normal lifespans at best.
Life of a person from lets say, underhives, will be much shorter than someone's from agriworlds due to polution, radiation and whatnot.
Mechanical augmentation can possibly extend anyone's life. The quality of the augments is you get what you pay for.
So basicaly, if you have money and status, you get to live longer. More of it you have, longer you live and more esteticaly pleasing you will look.

>>50291141
This is correct. Unless it has changed recently, Chapter Master Dante of the Blood Angela is the oldest "living" human (Bjorn doesn't count since he's a dreadnought) at 1,100 years old. That is unusually long-lived even for a Space Marine, who are post-human supermen.

Your average human will have a fairly short life expectancy just because life in the Imperium is nasty, brutish and short, where menials and serfs are worked into an early grave in the millions. The higher up the societal ladder you climb, the longer the life expectancy.

My recollection is that Ciaphas Caine, hero of the Imperium, lived to his mid-100s thanks to juvenant treatments but was pretty threadbare when he did finally kick it.

>>50289436
found it anon, i wouldn't say it's a confirmation, but its the closest thing we got

>>50289395
>40k
>inconsistent
What a new

>>50291186
Are you forgetting Cypher? He is 10K years old.

>>50291186
Blood Angels supposedly age slower than other SM because of their geneseed and because VAMPIRES IN SPAAAAAAAACE

>>50291230
citation?

>>50291241
>citation?

He is one of the Fallen, anon.

>>50291230
His chronological age has never been confirmed, he's just shown up places and gone just as mysteriously. he could just as easily be a time traveler, many of the Fallen were scattered across the centuries. Astelan lead a chapter of Dark Angels during the Great Crusade and he showed up ten thousand years later as a petty warlord on some backwater after the breaking of Caliban.

>>50291230
>>50291241
Cyper has a case of warp travel time extension, I beleive. Angels are weird and secretive, not much is certain. He could well be some other SM who took over the mantile.

>>50289996
>>50290055
>>50289958
>>50289922

Just to be clear i'm >>50289368

In the new lore if we ignore horus 'truth' the big E was born godlike and powerfull, being born the strongest psyker ever after the soul of all the dead psykers becoming one. Also what if you need to know where are you going to teleport there? What if the Emprah was godlike but needed a ship because he never saw where he was going to Tp

>>50291184
My world is a forsaken heap. It's a decrepit and resource deprived daemon world, where the daemons fighting over it are too weak to really keep hold over the whole planet for very long.

It's also isolated, so pretty much everybody is fighting over a hopeless ball of rock with little to no chance of reinforcements. The humans manage to survive by modifying their culture to exist in the milquetoast hellscape.

The one shining aspect of their culture is being such a helplessly damned hellpit, the humans literally have to experiment with geometry and pattern making to see what happens. They've developed symbols and patterns and architecture to at least ward off weaker daemons, but admittedly these daemons are absolutely starved. Their culture has existed with the daemons so long that they've adapted to eldritch shit just as a way of living. The way astronauts accrue to living in zero G.

They don't even have refined metals for weapons. They do, however, have organic polymers and have mastered glasses.

So nope. Setting-wise, there's no way they'd have the resources or the means by which to extend life on their own.

>>50290018
>Chaos Gods recognized the Emperor as their top enemy when he was born and tried to hinder and stop him
Thats why everyone headcannon him fooling the chaos gods, he outplans tzeentch

>>50291245
>Cypher

>Cypher itself was originally a title within the Order of Caliban.

>At least three Lord Cyphers have appeared in canon material

I want you to prove me that current book Cypher is the same guy from the very begining, and not just a pass over title, like the lore suggests.


By the way Ahriman was born among the wealthy tribes of the Achaemenid Empire, whose kings had allied with the Emperor during the Unification Wars.

So he is older than His Primarch, and among the few first created Space Marines.

>>50291283
In your case, they either die young or live to at least some semblence of old age.
Or you could make it so that old people are looked at with suspicion of demonic pacts and so on.
You can pretty much do whatever you like, the setting you made is open enough for that.

>>50290237
Ollanius Pius is even wrost anon, he was born a greek in ancient Terra, fough btween the argonauts, at Austerlitz during napoleon, at Verdun, then he died as a lone guardsman puting himself btween horus and the emperor during the boarding, later his tale became a IG symbol on how to be a guardsman, the biggest symbol of; 'Die of the emperor, or die trying'

>>50291280
>In the new lore

Just give it up.

Alivia.
Horus after his memory restoration which by the way should extend to the other primarchs since they were mind blocked by the Emperor and block was lifted by Horus.

All of them point at the fact that the Emperor stole the Chaos Gods power. But I am getting sick of this issue and I want to raise a bet. Alivia Sureka is heading to Terra to kick Malcador in the balls and talk to the Emperor. Horus will eventually confront the Emperor. Olly's past with the Emperor will be reveaed and he most likely will sacrifice himself. Are you willing to bet against that "Horus's truth" will at the forefront of all of this and the whole shaman thing would be never be mentioned?

>>50291406
Shit.
Did this just happen?
Someone actually proved a point on 4chan?!

>>50291588
What's the point that was proven? I dun get it.

>>50290291
>Millennia before the wars of unity
Does GW expect me to believe the Emperor took a ship through the warp in the middle of the fucking Age of Strife, when that was all but impossible?
They are playing themselves with this new unnecessary lore.

>>50291759
The Emperor and Alivia are both immortal. If the ship didn't have warp travel, then they can afford to wait. They can play cardgames to pass the time.

>>50291296
>By the way Ahriman was born among the wealthy tribes of the Achaemenid Empire, whose kings had allied with the Emperor during the Unification Wars.

So was Kharn, Garro, Fabius Bile...

>So he is older than His Primarch, and among the few first created Space Marines.
That may NOT be correct because to be recruited to Space Marines, recruits need to implanted with geneseed of their Primarch, so their Primarch needed to be created at least at the time of their recruitment and since first recruits were optimal age of 11 at their inception I would argue if there is any signifance. Ofcourse Primarchs started acting in the materium years after their abduction but I'm not sure if we should count warp-time-fuckery as making something older/younger.

>I want you to prove me that current book Cypher is the same guy from the very begining
I want you to prove he isn't, like his title, weapons he using constantly and the fact that he is solitary fucker who would be unable to pass his title to new-made space marines because process of creation of space marines take much more expertise, time and resorces than this one solitary wolf would posess.

>>50290124
Emps basically bargained for the knowledge of how to create greater demons, which he used to make the primarchs, who are confirmed to be basically vessels for the warp.

>>50292159
this kind of explains why they're so fucking retarded and.. warped.

Especially Angron.

All along, the Emperor was a bumbling idiotic sorcerer.

>>50292229
>Especially Angron.

and the facts that he had nails in his brain have nothing to do with it?

>>50292297
What do nails matter when you have demons in your soul?

>>50292309
>>50292159
>vessels for the warp
So is every human being, every eldar, tau even. Every soul is warp and it's only anchored to the materium by the material bodies.

Primarchs had just much greater, brighter souls than normal people, but Emperor made it goddam be that they still were human. Maybe closer to demigods than actual human. But they were still parts of human race, they were pinnacle, they were what humans could evolve to in a millions of years, but they were still humans. You want to know how I know? Because Space Marines are literally implanted with Primarchs geneseeds and are able to ascend into superhumans. Simple, normal, woman born boys are compatible with the DNA of the Primarchs. That's the big picture. That's big reason why Emperor made it like so and not just geneproduce his soldiers from vats.

Ofcourse to create, or maybe more correctly, to form, capture such souls from warp Emperor needed increadible amounts of power, technology and expertise. And even him didn't control the process completly, even him didn't knew everything about them. That's why we call Primarchs his SONS and not creations.

Really, if you don't undertand that it just shows how shallow your understanding of Warhammer 40k is.

>>50292453
Actually, the HH series has the Primarchs being part Warp and part real space. Their material form is not wholly physical.

Hey. When asked about it, Fulgrim said there are ZERO difference between the Primarchs and daemons. They are basically the same thing.

>>50292588
Suddenly the Primarchs being told not to play with warp stuff and play with daemons makes.. so much sense.

>>50292588
>Fulgrim said
Ah. So the Traitor Primarch that became Daemon Prince and may be or not be actually inside a painting is now credible source about the thing that every demon would lie about?

And if they are basically daemon why would it matter if they become Daemon Primarchs? Why would they even want it, it's basically taking away their ability to exist in realspace on their own, while not giving them anything in return since they already were daemons...

>>50292588
>ZERO difference between the Primarchs and daemons.

And that is why even before the demonification of traitor Primarchs, they were unstable in realspace, demanded constant sacrifice and worship in order to be stable in realspace, and when killed they were banished to the warp where they belong.

If anything, Primarchs were the polar opposite of Deamons. They were Deamons of realspace.

>>50289277
I guess without the iron will of an Inquisitor that might make most others go bonkers.

>>50292453
Grognard, it is stated again and again in the books, whenever a fucking primarch is on the damn page, that they almost seem inhuman. You may say that the almost is the keyword here, but when coupled with the knowledge that they are one physical body away from being warp demons, the whole statement becomes fucking foreshadowing.
Emps was as bad as Magnus, playing with fire, and creating creatures that fucked the human part of the galaxy as bad as the murderous AI before them.

And worse yet, Emps and later his lakckeys take away normal human boys, children, implant them with additional organs and foreign DNA, something they will need strict medical control over for the rest of their existance, and then they brainwash them to remove anything that might have connected them with the rest of humanity on anything more than baseline genetic level.

Whenever a marine does a heroic deed that goes agaibst the rigid rules imposed on them, there is where you need to search for the humanity. Not in their bodies or what they were tought, but in what they feel is right, beneath all that, that which tells those ruling over them that they are not right and that individual will indeed matters.

In a way, chaos space marines are more human than the loyalists that came in the times after them.

so, not sure if I remember this correctly, but is rejuv stuff made out of babies or something?

>>50289395
I bet you're one of those colossal faggots who always fuck up Star Wars threads with their childish "muh canon", "muh new canon", "legends are no more canon" posts.

Neck yourself, heretic!

>>50292663
The Chaos Gods annihilated the physical parts of the Primarchs.

Also it was Fulgrim before he was ascended to daemonhood. And it was really Fulgrim. Lorgar confirms it!

>>50292743
>creating creatures that fucked the human part of the galaxy as bad as the murderous AI before them
>And worse yet, Emps and later his lakckeys take away normal human boys, children, implant them with additional organs and foreign DNA, something they will need strict medical control over for the rest of their existance, and then they brainwash them to remove anything that might have connected them with the rest of humanity on anything more than baseline genetic level.

And you know why he does that? You know why after 38 millenia of shadowrulling and gently guiding humanity on the right path he says fuck it, I need to take the wheel and create super soldiers? Because 40k galaxy is really freaking horrible place and Emperor knew that. He would love to let humanity ascend into the psychic being as Old Ones did, but frankly that is not possible becuase Old Ones evolved during a time when galaxy was as a whole a lot more peacefull. Humanity needed defense agains Orcs, Necrons, Eldars, rebel AIs and more, things that even Emperor probably did not know about (tyranids and tau for example). If not for Emperor humanity would already be dead. This chump was perfectly happy with being humanity silent guardian for thousand of years, but after Long Night he knew that the only way humanity survives in the Universe is if he take drastic actions. If not for Emperor humans would already be extinct or just a minor xeno in a murderous galaxy. Humanity is leading species only because of Emperor.

And don't start saying about Interex because they were years away from creating rebelious AI or being nom nommed by some xeno empire. That what humanity would be without Emperor. Just a footnote on the galaxies book, instead of it's defying species.

>>50293041
Wow, there is so much wrong with what you said that I'll have to get drunk to properly reply.
Please stand by.

You know, in the Ork Codex, it kind of implies that an Ork Warlord is wearing the head of a Metal Man and may or may not being influenced by it.

The Warboss and his boys attacked an Adeptus Mechanicus vault somewhere and woah holy shit they opened the door and all these angry metal humanoids came out. So they beat them until they stopped moving and wore them as decoration.

Now the warboss hears voices and leads his boys to greater conquests.

>>50293342
welp

Ork with Intelligence, even if its artificial.
Now thats a scary prospect

>>50293461
Intelligence of a sort. If it's true, the Metal Man is giving him "visions" and giving them ideas on what to attack next.

Or it's not the Metal Man at all and just Gork, or Mork. Hell if I know. All I know is an ork with brain damage is wearing a Metal Man's head as a helmet and raiding Terran shit.

>>50293518
It's Azhag the Slaughterer only in 40k

Instead of Crown of Command you have Metal Mans head.

>>50293546
>>50293518
It's Necrons. The Ork took the head of the Necron lord as a mask.

>>50290807
>And yet it perserves. Like herpes. And just like that, you need to get used to it.
Don't they have a cure for that now?

>>50293577
.. Necrons.
THIS IS EVEN WORSE.

>>50293577

It's still Azhag the Slaughterer in 40k

I would like to be disproven wrong, and find out some time later, there were some funny living metal shenanigans with Necron lord turning the Ork slowly into a Necron, or some Waaaaaaagh malarkey, with Necron guiding Orks with their horde magic, but lets be honest.

This is GW

And this is Azhag the Slaughterer in 40k

>>50293593
If they did, I'm pretty impressed? I mean, the fucker inscribes its own dna into the nerve axoms and just periodicaly flares up to mess up your day.

>>50293707
I could be wrong, but I don't want to get bubbled and get bombarded with herpes spam for looking it up.

>>50293729
Nah, don't sweat it. I mean, even if there is cure for herpes, the bad lore will still stick with us.

>>50293757
Technically speaking, a cure for herpes is closer than a cure for bad lore.

Thank you, CRISPR.

>>50293871
I guess Fulgrim would find this relevant indeed.

>>50289819
rebuttal: old>new since new lore is just overworked fanfic

>>50294154
Rebuttal: you get burried under a ton of out-dated facts only you care about.

>>50294171
REbuttal (by different anon so +1): you actually enjoy complexity and opulence of setting because you have enough mental capacity to appreciate it.

>>50290454
read what you wrote out loud to yourself and conclude with me that all W30k lore written after 2005 is basically marvel-comics level cop-out

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>>50290543
YOU! I LIKE YOU ANON! LET'S BE FRIENDS!

>>50289248
I always hated the Emperor being 'just another perpetual.' So why is he so powerful? Why has he been guiding humanity throughout most of its history, if he wasn't actually the physical form of thousands of shaman souls? Why the fuck is he doing anything, if hundreds of other people could've been doing what he's been doing, but haven't?

I really don't like what BL has been doing with him, trying to make him less special and a lot more of a bad guy that somehow stole powers from Chaos (how does that even work?). He could still be the shaman soul thing with an overwhelming duty to protect humanity, but have been twisted in how to do that due to time restraints and a level of the failings of being a mortal, even a long-lived one. I think it just makes for a worse story and setting, it's not just 'blah new lore sucks'

>>50294278
Drats, you got me.
However...
Rebuttal: lore needs to be cataloged chronologicaly.

>>50294278
I refuse to sanction such heresy

>>50294291
me too, please let me join the club

>>50294171
dude i still regard warhammer fantasy as set in the old world, my way works, I'll be fine

What the fuck man. So not only did they recon the fuck out of ollanious pious, the most badass motherfucker ever, but now they made him some stupid fucking perpetual.

Why are these perpetuals even a thing? It so retarded it doesn't even fit thematically.

>>50294607
And also emperor making deals with the chaos gods? What the fuck is going on?

Someone needs to shitcan the whole heresy series it's fucking out of control.

>>50294987
Well the emp part isn't certain, he could've just stolen it and Horus was lied to.

For perpetual, blame Abnett for inserting classic sci fi elements in the HH

>>50294987
They gotta keep pulling twists out with every book, so crazy new developments keep on happening. Even the lore changes are probably for the sake of selling more copies - if they told you what you'd already long since known, it wouldn't be interesting.

So I generally just chose to ignore it entirely. It's not like it affects modern 40k anyway, and if I really need some harder 30k information, there's always the rulebooks.

>>50295762
It could also be that he never stole powers at all, but since he was a pysker what he used with his own powers by necessity included the warp. Remember, daemons lie.

>>50292453
Dawg, the primarchs are basically warp T800s. Warp storm endoskeleton with a flesh and blood covering.

Like, the only reason they can survive real space, is because the warp stuff is contained in matter. Like how time travel works in Terminator.

That's what the emperor bargained for the knowledge of. Hr needed to know how to create greater demons, so he could stuff their essence in a real space friendly shell. It's why Ferry's losing his head cause a mini warp storm to erupt from his neck.

>>50295784
Well he certainly took something from the warp, since Sureka's view is objective, but what he actually did is something else

>>50289110
>Space Marines are not mutants, they are geneticaly modified and enginiereed,

That's called "mutation."

>>50296344
40k definitions. "Mutant" in the 41st millenium means somebody who's been physically or psychically altered by contact with Chaos and/or the Warp.

>>50296443
>somebody who's been physically or psychically altered by contact with Chaos and/or the Warp
Normal humans are turned into marines with geneseed.

Gene seed derives from primarchs.

Primarchs are great daemon tier warp beings housed in human bodies.

Which makes space marines...?

>>50296492
There are some writings about 40k that has a similar view point, marines many times will comment how different they are from the people they protect.

Most times however rather than mutant they see themselves as a higher level of human, not twisted and changed but improved. It's semantic I know but in the minds of imperial citizens is a difference.

>>50289390
Fuck you and fuck that shit.

Pious was a little, weak fleshy man with balls of steel

>>50289922
Well, he was directing the Astronomican even before he was interred in the Throne, but OK. If that's not so far beyond human as to be godlike, OK.

>>50291588
He paraphrased a lot of stuff that Horus was led to believe happened/may have revealed memories of or may have planted in the minds of the other Primarchs based on his own (equally suspect) visions.

It comes down to what you're willing to take away from the fluff; if you believe the Emperor is a god, then he's a god. If you believe he stole his power from gods while not being a god, then you're retarded. Frankly, if the only evidence that he stole from the gods of Chaos is Horus, then

>>50291836

In the Dark Age of Technology, not the Age of Strife. If he learned anything about creating the Primarchs on that trip, and assuming his teleportation returned him to Terra, it either took him 5,000 or 11,000 years to put the knowledge to use - despite Humanity being at its technological peak and his having the ability to fucking teleport, among other powers.

It's more likely it's just a webway gate, since that would explain both his interest and the apparently new ability to teleport away. Given that he never told his sons about the true nature of Chaos and by extension the need for the Webway (since even Magnus didn't have a fucking clue despite his nerdcore) it's more than likely the Big E considered it worth keeping utterly fucking secret. Probably because it was the terminus for the experimental portal he built/intended to build on Terra.

Taking thousands of years to master the ancient psychic construct of a long-dead race that even the Eldar don't fully understand seems a lot more likely than taking thousands of years to master turning furries' dreams into reality.

>>50292808
Lorgar would confirm the godlike powers of marshmallows if you put on a convincing puppet show for him. The guy's a retard.

>>50296832
>. If you believe he stole his power from gods while not being a god, then you're retarded. Frankly, if the only evidence that he stole from the gods of Chaos is Horus, then
I think you're the retard for making comments like these while obviously not having read the books. I understand preferring old to new but at least ream them first.

It's not just Horus and daemons. Alivia herself confirms it, the guardian Angel getting destroyed confirms it, emps keeping it a secret and mindwiping everyone confirms it

>>50289431
Isn't there another Primarch that's a Perpetual? Ferrus Manus? Or was it another one? I'm pretty sure it's Iron Hand of the Iron Hands and his Iron Hands, because Fulgrim is taking advantage of the perpetual thing to torture him to death over and over.

>>50297278
Nope.

What's confusing you is that Fulgrim feels so guilty about killing Ferrus he has Fabius clone him over and over and over again, until he gets the perfect match

>>50297278
>because Fulgrim is taking advantage of the perpetual thing to torture him to death over and over.

Those are clones, Ferrus is so dead Horus uses his skull as paperweight.

Why are perpetuals a thing anyway? It's so fucking stupid and way out of line with the rest of the universe.

>>50297277
>He says with no evidence despite half the thread going into this already
....

>>50289110
I might be retarded but if the Emperor was born in 8000 BC and is still alive up to 30,000, is he not tens of thousands of years old? That's like 38,000 years, no?

>>50290543
THIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIS. You Black Libtards make me sick

File: what did you honestly expect.jpg (17KB, 640x960px) Image search: [Google]

17KB, 640x960px

>>50290133
>>What's cooler than ritualistic suicide in order to gain powers far beyond anything anyone could ever dream of.
>Perpetuals.

how about you kys

>>50297551

Yes, (You) win.

>>50297439
Do I really need to fetch the book and type out the part Alivia has a flashback to the emperor exiting the warp and collapsing?

>>50297278
>>50297298
>>50297292

>Isn't there another Primarch that's a Perpetual?

Vulkan. Though apparently he died to The Beast.

>>50298196
Please.

If he could tank all the shit he took in UE and VL a large ork is nothing

>>50298301
Maybe the Waaagh gave the Beast the psychic energy needed to kill a perpetual, if you need that explanation.

Or maybe the fact that Vulkan survived what apparently killed him back in HH sapped his perpetual power. Could be a good explanation for why the Emperor's in the Golden Throne - whether you like the perpetual lore or not, that is a damn big hole in the whole idea.