Warmachine/Hordes General

>tfw January errata will not fix Skorne

Fucking pigs seriously? No dwarves? fuck you PP.

>>50285639
Mercs, Minions, and then CoC tier lists.

Mercs got the Kingmaker list, since it's topical.

Dwarf tier list is likely to show up in the book.

Hoksoon™

>>50283947
Isn't that just a slightly crappier version of the Cephalyx theme list?

>>50286221
Cephalyx theme requires 30 points of drudges to get an overlord unit, this requires 20 points of units or battle engines to get free shit. Can get 5 point weapon crews or 6 point efaarit scouts for free as an example.

>>50286221
Kingmaker was the same way. Bring units to get free things, army gets a benefit, a specific unit gets ambush.

>>50283947
>Brigands
>Commandos
>Slaugerhousers
>41pts
>Get 2 free Efaarit Scouts
Like nigger what? That seems kind of insane.

>>50286459
I was thinking 2 free razorbacks would be my general choice.

But look at kingmaker, you can get kell and orin for free for 40 points of units.

>>50286459
Or you could bring brigands, slaughterhousers, and a meat thresher. Even with ambush I'm not sure commandos are worth much. They're holy zealots that can also melee, but don't have any of the tricks and cost more.

>>50286459

>take two useful things that you never, ever would have sacrificed points for if you were queuing up to fight against tourneylist

Holy shit I think this game actually is balanced towards Themes.

>>50286534
Amush is very powerful. There's a reason only bog trots and kingmaker bomies get it. Commados are shit, but they are probably good enough to be dangerous with the best rule in the game.

>>50286661
Their bombs will kill the shit out of support, they are the anti-choir. But a bunch of mat 6 pow 12 charges aren't threatening anything important. You'd have to be dumb as shit to put your caster in a situation where these half inch melee dudes can charge into your caster's back arc. I guess they can be a finisher in a pop and drop if they're close enough to a board edge?

>>50286689
And I mean, don't get me wrong. If light infantry is close to a table edge to get bombs thrown at them or to get charged in the butt, they can make a mess. but I don't think they'll do any better than using their points for more brigands.

>>50286661
>>50286534
>>50286700
>>50286689
They're great contesters as well, especially with feign death. They can run onto a zone or flag and be a real pain to remove.

Man if this is what the pigs list is like I can't even imagine the other theme forces.

Fucking hype for the khador ones.

I'm actually thinking. if you can engineer casting quagmire on them, ramming quagmired commandos from ambush down your opponent's throat would be pretty great.

>>50283947
This is pretty good considering what the player loses access to.

Lose access to bog trogs, but still have an ambush unit. Lose access to boomhowlers, but the basic farrow is already tough and has a good gun. Losing Wrong Eye and Snap Jaw + Swamp Horror is a negative. Its just hard to find a real downside to this theme list.

>>50288141
You have to play a meme army.

>>50288995
Every army is a meme army.

>>50288995
I dunno. Minions has a lot of potential. A rask army and farrow army could do some cool things as a pair. Too bad they aren't as deep as mercs yet. Remeber that guy that placed top 3 with mercs using Traitor's Army, Cephalyx, and a rhulic army (with all 4 lesser warlocks)? I bet his opponents had a hard time choosing their lists since each list was so different.

So, I want to get into WMH, and I'm hoping that I can get other people into it because fuck 40k.

Looking at the 2 player set, I would hope that I can find someone to split and take the Cygnar, so I can have the Cryx.

My questions are:

How well does the box play against each other?

Is the starter box worth getting if I already have the 2 player set? There seems to be some overlap.

How are the all in 1 boxes?

If someone wanted to play Hordes, there is no issue playing the two against each other, right? It's basically sperg proof?

>>50289426
On phone so shit-tier formatting.
Two player warmachine box isn't bad, has babes, and other goodies, you can also get the starter box and still get value from the multikitting afterwards.
All in one boxes are impossible to find, and were made in mark 2, now it's mark 3 so it's changed a bit, and some all in ones aren't full armies anymore because points got shifted more towards warlock only points.
No issue playing hordes and warmachine together

>>50289426
The battle boxes play terrible against each other to some degree, but that's often a problem of the vets playing them. Newbies aren't going to know how the fuck that shit works, so it's not nearly as bad. It's mostly about rules simplification, because Warmahordes is a fucking complicated game.

There's no reason to get the battle box if you've got the 2 player box, unless you can get it cheap enough that you're buying the heavy you want at cost.

All in one boxes are amazing in general, I don't know how Cryx's in specific transitioned. I don't think they're an actual army anymore with the edition change, but they're still a great deal.

There is absolutely no barrier between Warmachine and Hordes. They use different resource mechanics, Focus vs Fury, but beyond that they function identically.

>>50289470
I said "I don't think" when I meant "Absolutely".

But what's your interest in Cryx? Just the aesthetics?

I ask because Warmachine can often be a little deceptive in how lists and models play, so it's good to figure out what you want before you start buying things.

For example, Cryx can only make warjacks work with a few casters, and they're generally regarded as being much weaker with jacks in general.

>>50289483

Well, I was looking at the two starter boxes, and Cryx jumped out at me more than blueberries. I figured it would be a better buy in general because of the extra unit.

On top of that, the other two factions that caught my interest don't have battle boxes, which are Cyriss and Mercs (specifically Fiona and Alexia).

For Hordes, Legion looks neat because Dragons, and Circle seems cool because werewolves, though neither of the 2-player factions interest me much.

>>50288141
I'm not sure there is a real downside besides no Wrong Eye & Snapjaw, but let's be real they're probably getting the nerfbat to the face come January.

Like if you were running a Pig warlock anyway this seems strictly better than a vanilla list.

>>50289483

Oh also, I kinda really like minions. Specifically, I really like the fucking gators. Like, holy shit. I want an army of wrasslin' voodo swamp gators.

>>50285639
Would you like a tier list now, or a book with a tier list and new models lateron?

>>50289558
No Lanyssa is also a relevant downside.

>>50289558
>That feel when sending my Void Spirit after Wrongeye, and eventually connecting with a huge spike that blows half of Snapjaw's face off when transfered

>>50289668
Wrasslers are probably one of the best beasts in the game. Alone they have the damage output of a Titan, but their animus is ridiculous. With Rask you can give something +6 to damage. +8 if you go into lesser warlocks. So you take a cheap shitty warbeast, ramp its damage up to obscene heights, and suicide the fucker.

>>50290799

Should I go for the gator JML?

JUSTICE FOR CRYX

>>50293021
Remember how cryx players told everyone else they just need to git gud?

Maybe now is the time for them to git gud.

File: Bx0OYds.jpg (54KB, 514x283px) Image search: [Google]

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Played my first game of Reznik2 yesterday into Sorscha1. This nigga is super legit. How come I don't see more people playing him?

>>50293218
They really need help. Schadenfreude should not be the basis of game balance.

>>50293273
They do around here. Last time I saw him, he was pulling my caster's corpse behind his chariot.

>>50293273
Not sure. He was also good in Mk2, but the forum echo chamber told everyone he was real bad, so nobody played him.

Me and some friends are about to give mk3 a real try. We played through most of mk2, but for some reason quit when mk3 hit the fan.

Is there any way to succeed with a Skorne Journeyman league (of a sort), and what should the buildup look like?

>>50293683
>Is there any way to succeed with a Skorne
It's not impo-
>Journeyman league
Oh fuck.

>>50293417

Classic, "someone on the internet told me so", and the rest follows. Its like /tg/, even though many (if not most) are pure mathhammer (excuse the expression) players, who rarely see's a game, they sure know whats cheesy and whats trash.
Same goes for /wip/ with most people being the guys who don't even have a painted force but has still "played the game" for a good 10+ years. But they sure know how to give negative critique.

But I guess its that age, we would rather sit at home spending a mere 20 min to watch a YouTube clip of someone else playing, or painting the actual hobby, than do it ourselves. Hell, my 4 year old son watch other people playing with LEGO, rather than build himself... Where is this world going to, one can ask....

>>50293706

Well we are just a bunch of happy amatures, so its a lot of "fun factor" involved. But we will try to play it by the rules, and really grind our teethes in to this edition.
The question I'm asking is because I have no experience with Skorne, but I like the looks of them. Now if I where to play them, I would be stuck with Xekaar or what ever his name is. Not my favourite character, but can he make it work. Even though fun factor is a main theme, I don't want to loose every freaking game.

The opponents will likely be
Trollbloods or Orboros for one guy
Khador or Legion for second guy
and likely Cygnar for the third guy

>>50289483
>Cryx can only make warjacks work with a few casters, and they're generally regarded as being much weaker with jacks in general.

I'm not sure how true this is any more. Cryx's really ball-busting infantry all got nerfed pretty hard, while their Jacks pretty much all got cheaper, better, or both. I mean it's Mk3 Cryx so whatever you pick you're handicapping yourself compared to some of the other factions, but I think the days of Cryx playing nothing but Infantry and their Warjack Points worth of Arc Nodes are over.

>>50293410
A combo of Extraction and Wind Rush costing 4 under Lamentation meant I bullied Sorscha for two turns and killed her on the top of three after he feated to not lose immediately.

>>50293417
I started playing PoM at the start of mk3, so I didn't really have a bias coming in. Chose him as a caster to pair with the High Reclaimer. All I saw was a Menoth version of Butcher who traded a bit of killiness for more army support, durability, and bullying potential. I ran Chandler Davidson's list from WMW and just curbstomped my opponent top of 3. Any kind of killbox scenario really puts things in his favor and between four heavies and the big man himself, there's a lot to chew through. Going to keep playing him to see what the list doesn't like, but he's probably going to be my favorite for a while.

>>50294391
>What Rez2 doesn't like.
In short, Eiryss kills him dead now that she has innate magic weapon. In Mk2 it was easy to sidestep her as she required Aiyana to actually hit him.

He doesn't want to see Stryker2, Madrak2, or Butcher3, anyone that can easily surf to his BE base and has a high damage output. Other than that, he plays strongly into most matchups.

>>50294791
>>50294391
Also Gallant will murder him dead if he gets there.

>>50294844
To be fair, allowing heavies (especially those with Purgation) to be delivered to your caster is not usually a recipe for success.

>>50294791
Madelyn is usually incluided in Reznik2 lists, so then the game becomes about keeping her alive vs those melee casters.

I think the mentioned list includes a Templar and Rhoven? Or a Devout instead of the Templar. Something, anyway!

I've got a busted-to-shit Prime Axiom missing both its arms, should I replace the arms to be an Axiom again or should I turn the model into a Prime Conflux? I already have one full Axiom, this would be a second one.

>>50291643
Go for it, just note that gator themed infantry got hurt in the edition change, and you'll find yourself reaching for farrow brigands more often than not. But beasts and casters wise, Gators still rule the roost.

>>50296430
Arkadius seems pretty pimp. Max out year beasts, pop feat to frenzy everything, then the fury falls off when they frenzy.

File: Xekaar1_75 Week 1.png (112KB, 421x323px) Image search: [Google]

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>>50293683
I am terrible at Warmachine and Hordes. I play Skorne, so it's even worse.

Here's my 6 week Journeyman League build up. We did get the option at week four to swap to another caster. I did not. We did have to stick with the Battlebox.

>>50294791
If she can shoot me. I do have 3 shield guards in the list. Madelyn should help a bit with those three, especially since Lamentation means Stryker and Butcher have to spend 2 focus for every extra inch. Additionally, I match Stryker's threat range (assuming he spends 6 of his focus to get to me) and exceed Butcher's since he can't pull me. Of course, this is all theory.

>>50295221
Correct. List is as follows:

War Room Army

Protectorate of Menoth - Reznik2

Theme: No Theme Selected
75 / 75 Army


Bunker - Steamroller Objective

Servath Reznik, Wrath of Ages - WJ: +29
- Madelyn Corbeau, Ordic Courtesan - PC: 4
- Devout - PC: 9 (Battlegroup Points Used: 9)
- Scourge of Heresy - PC: 16 (Battlegroup Points Used: 16)
- Guardian - PC: 15 (Battlegroup Points Used: 4)
- Templar - PC: 15
- Templar - PC: 15

Vassal Mechanik - PC: 1
Vassal Mechanik - PC: 1
Vassal Mechanik - PC: 1
Wrack - PC: 1

Choir of Menoth - Leader & 5 Grunts: 6
Daughters of the Flame - Leader & 5 Grunts: 10
Daughters of the Flame - Leader & 5 Grunts: 10


---

GENERATED : 11/18/2016 17:05:58
BUILD ID : 2030.16-11-12

trying the last two weeks

>>50293683
I don't know if the list is good, but it was fun.

>>50298141
I love the model and I want to play him, but damn if he isn't expensive. I gotta find a discounted one.

>>50298452
I got my for 50% off via Ebay. You could also try bartertown.

http://privateerpress.com/community/privateer-insider/insider-11-18-2016

Colossal Wrasslin

Get hyped

>>50300124
He is quite good. Check Amazon or Ebay. I got Lylyth3 for $40 that way and have been enjoying her shenanigans ever since.

>>50293744
We've always been that way, the internet just gives us access to watch things that people would've never put on T.V.

conflictanon here.

Just pushed a big update to conflictchamber.com -- tournament list reporting is in. At the moment we've got... two tournaments reported, mostly because they're two I've been in recently, but the page is set up to accept tournament submissions.

>>50301170
Also, the refactoring that went into this release has been *massive* (while there's not a ton different externally, CC is slowly being built to allow easy integration of CC tech in other web sites), I'm certain there will be bugs. [email protected] is a good place to send them if you find any.

>>50301170
>>50301195
Thank you for your selfless efforts

>>50296430

If I can get a JML here, I'm totally gonna do it, and I'll paint my Wrastlers like Luchadores.

>>50301170
Can i run your app on my pc?

>>50301170
Actually meant if your app also shows the decks. Doesnt, still of much use. Thank you anon.

>>50302633
Can your PC run a browser?

>>50301170
>Full lists for tournaments
Man I'd report my LGS's Steamroller coming up in a few weeks but I ain't doing full lists.

>>50301170
>5 players lists available
>3 are Menoth
>Literally 60% of the metagame is Menoth

Has PP's new staggered release schedule coupled with the continuing circle Christmas, on top of the L&L fiasco and mk3 failings; buttfucked the community too hard?

Or is the core game just too good and strong to let a right buggering kill wm/h?

>>50298343
This looks like a VERY weak list senpai.
>Savage
Unplayably weak.
>Raider
Unplayably weak.
>Krea
Unplayably weak.
>Shaman
Borderline.
>Double Max Handlers
Nigger just no. If you want to manage that much fury, bring a Bronzeback to tickle your elephants.

Here's how you Xekaar hard:
>(Xekaar 1) Beast Master Xekaar [+31]
- Titan Cannoneer [17]
- Titan Gladiator [14]
- Titan Sentry [15]
- Titan Sentry [15]
- Agonizer [7]
- Cyclops Shaman [8]
Nihilators (max) [15]
Paingiver Beast Handlers (max) [7]
Orin Midwinter, Rogue Inquisitor [5]
Extoller Soulward [3]

Mortality amps the Sentry's damage up to a point where it can reliably kill, and if a Sentry can kill a heavy, it's the best beast in the game. Probably better than a Juggernaut at that point desu senpai.

>>50297884
Yup, that's a battlebox.
>>50297892
You don't need handlers with Xekaar at that level.
>>50297906
You will never need double handlers. The agonizer with a way to protect it is borderline okay. You have no way of protecting it.
>>50297926
The Krea is shit.
>>50298332
PGMT is good. A second Gladiator is not bad. Your list really doesn't need Saxon.
>>50298343
Cannoneer is a good beast.

In total: Lose the Agonizer, lose the Krea, lose Saxon, lose one unit of Handlers. Get a Sentry or Tiberion in there. Then add maybe a second PGMT or a Void Spirit.

>>50303720
>Savage
>Unplayably weak.
>Raider
>Unplayably weak.
I think he has to take those.
>>Shaman
>Borderline.
Yeah, but Xekaar needs him to survive.

Oh and a Brute seems like an okay idea, if only for the animus.

>>50303762
>a Brute seems like an okay idea, if only for the animus
I count 40 points of support already. Lets not make it 48 points of support in a 106 point list, 17 points of which are shit Cyclops.

>>50303781
Yeah, that's the problem with Xekaar. He needs so much support to do something without dying.

Reminder that knockdown should be -4DEF against shooting, not automatic hit.

>>50303806
Why?

>>50303805
>He needs so much support to do something without dying
No faggot, that list just has way too much support in it. You don't need a Krea, you don't need that many Handlers, you don't need Saxon Orrik. The Shaman is a funny one, but since it can always pop off a boost ghost shot with the Cannoneer's animus, it gets a bye. With the Mk3 battlebox in mind, I'd recommend this list.

>(Xekaar 1) Beast Master Xekaar [+31]
- Cyclops Raider [9]
- Cyclops Savage [8]
- Titan Cannoneer [17]
- Titan Gladiator [14]
- Titan Sentry [15]
- Titan Sentry [15]
- Agonizer [7]
Paingiver Beast Handlers (max) [7]
Void Spirit [4]
Extoller Soulward [3]
Orin Midwinter, Rogue Inquisitor [5]
Swamp Gobbers Bellows Crew [2]

There's no Shaman, but I don't think he's really that critical. Mortality is already RNG10, and after casting it you just put a Sentry in front of Xekaar. Increasing the RNG of spells is also a mini-Skornegy with his feat since you want to be sort of forwards anyway.

>>50303815
Would you stay perfectly still on the ground if someone pointed a gun at you?

>>50303844
>pointless AH
Grow up. It just discredits your entire post.

>>50303881
Literally what.

>>50303806
From Prime Mk3:
>A melee attack against a knocked down model automatically hits. A knocked down model has a base DEF of 5. A knocked down model does not block line of sight and is never an intervening model.

A knocked down model has a base DEF of 5 against shooting, it is not automatically hit.

>>50303874
Oh so you're arguing "realism"? Fuck off.

>>50303919
Oh wow I have a 1/36 chance to not get hit? How fucking amazing! And this isn't even considering how outright fucking retarded it is that a knocked down heavy is actually wafer thin. Models have a volume when standing, but not when knocked down? Really?

>>50303955
I too love rules bloat.

>>50303955
All models being wafer thin is actually a massive inconsistency in the rules when you think about it. Models can't see down, right? So a heavy can't see a small model behind a wall of other small models, right? Yet when everything is wafer thin, this idea is thrown out of the window.

>>50303874
I always assumed that anything which causes Knockdown is strong enough to knock people senseless or disrupt machines, which explains why their DEF is reduced by so much. They're literally defenseless.

>>50303955
Nice moving goalposts you got there, dude.

Also, note the phrase "base DEF", any increases to a models DEF, including from cover and concealment, still apply in full, so depending on the circumstances your chance to not be hit might be considerably higher.

>>50303972
This guy's got it right. Knocked down already has enough rules attached. Bloating this single case to include all sorts of additional extra rules for specific base sizes and attack types and whatnot, just because there are specific cases where it doesn't make sense, is a terrible idea.

>>50304001
STOP USING YOUR IMAGINATION!

>>50304169
>I can't see that small guy over this giant robot
>I know, I'll knock them both down, that'll solve the problem!
That sure is some imagination.

>>50304207
While it might not make sense in every case, it's the best, simple solution. Every "realistic" way to solve this issue would be accompanied by rules bloat. And nobody likes rules bloat.

>>50304251
Remove the part about not blocking LOS when knocked down. Done.

>>50304281
So then you have the scenario, where a knocked down heavy blocks LOS to a standing heavy, which also doesn't make much sense.

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>>50303806
>>50303955
Where did he touch you, anon?

>>50304308
Right in the autism.

>>50304281
then wouldn't that allow for the use of trolls for knockdown blockers? Like if you can't kill it and defeat its toughness couldn't a gargantuan troll essentially block LOS to most of an army?

>>50304448
Gargs don't get KD though.

>>50304468
I didn't know that. I still think that having them be LOS-blocking when knocked down is stupid, because it doesn't give you the oomph you should feel when you successfully knock down an enemy unit, it just makes you say "well, now you've changed where you're standing but pretty much nothing else changes."

>>50304308
God I hope we get Epic Rahn.

How could we make him even more Control?

>>50302654
I would get sued to death, so no.

>>50302861
The sample is heavily biased since at the moment I only have tournaments reported that I played in, and I play Menoth and placed in the last two tournaments I played in.

But yeah, we've got a lot of Menoth in our meta, but it's not 40%.

>>50304690
Er, it's not 60%, I mean.

>>50304290
I didn't say they kept their standing volume.

>>50304903
So now you want a second set of model heights for when they're knocked down? Are you trying to troll?

>>50304930
I didn't say that either. I'm trying to imply that you wouldn't be able to see over a bunch of knocked down models to the one knocked down model at the back. You can't see over a base to something the same size, so because all knocked down models are flat, you wouldn't be able to pick out the one guy at the back because of all the other bodies lying in front of him. It's the same principle as how LOS currently works.

>>50304638
Medium base. More health boxes.

2 reach 2 attacks. Whenever they hit something, he can choose to have them affected as though by Force Hammer instead.

Force Hammer.
Polarity Shield.
Hellmouth.
Telekinesis.
Deceleration.

Feat: For the duration of this turn, all Rahn's spells cost one focus, and whenever a model is subject to a movement effect, he may choose the direction and distance of the movement, up to its maximum distance. Damage caused by movement effects within Rahn's control rage is boosted.

>>50283947
Does anyone know the *name* of the Farrow theme list? I'm assuming it's "The Thornfall Alliance". Matters primarily because I'm adding it to Conflict Chamber atm.

>>50283947
>>50306337

And the Thornfall theme list is on Conflict Chamber.

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>>50306737

Looks like it works, too.

>>50304638
>>50306169
You'd likely be disappointed. I don't think there's a single caster with multiple versions having telekinesis. Generally new versions will lose the most powerful signature spells to open room for other stuff.

>>50307175
Yeah.

They'll make him a 'jack caster with control elements if he shows up again. Field Marshal: Knockdown.

>>50308035
>not field marshal drag

Hey lads, I'm getting back into Warmahordes after a long hiatus. What are some of the main changes from MKII and MKIII?

>>50308515
Premeasuring distances is official, a shrinkage in army points allotted for unts, Grievous Wounds cancels out all damage removal (so healing and repairs) but not warlock damage transfers, Warcasters no longer camp to add straight armor but instead can spend 1 focus to cancel out up to 5 damage from an attack, focus replenishment now happens before checking for Fire, all non-CoC non-Cephalyx warjacks get one free focus at the start of a turn if they're in their warcaster's control area, and warlocks can get 1 Fury per dead light or bigger warbeast that was in their BG. Meta is currently gunline heavy, with Warmachine on the whole being arguably a bit stronger than Hordes. Ret, Cygnar, Khador and Mercs are quite good right now, Cryx ate a fairly large number of nerfs, Skorne is pretty much the least competitive option, solos are harder to fit into armies. Prime and Primal mk3 are free download pdfs if you want to look at some of the updated rules.

>>50308685
Thanks, Anon. I don't necessarily agree with the free focus/fury, or Grievous Wounds' inability to stop transfers, but I can live with it.

>>50308733
I'm probably not remembering all of it, those have been the major changes for me since I play Ret (which stayed almost the same and therefore got a lot better) and Legion (which got kicked in the teeth a bit and where Alten Ashley is the bane of my existence). Spirit Bond (the warlocks getting fury from dead beasts thing) is usually not very relevant anyway, since when your beasts die you're usually screwed anyway. Also, most Animi went to range: Self, like Far Strike, Spiny Growth, Lightning Strike, etc. I'll see if I can find more comprehensive changes.

>>50308733
What faction(s) did you play?
Also, I know the forums aren't the best place but here's an overview of a lot of core rules changes.

>>50308799
Derped and forgot link. Here it is. http://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?252717-A-Guide-to-Rules-Changes-from-Mk-II-to-Mk-III

>>50308799
I primarily played Cyriss and Khador, with a bit of Thornfall Alliance mixed in. I played over Vassal due to living in a rural area without an LGS, but having moved to the big city, I'm considering picking up some models.

>>50308832
Both Cyriss and Khador are quite good at the moment, Khador probably being stronger. The biggest change I can recall for them is that Winter Guard Rockets can be attached to WG Riflemen as well as WG Infantry and the Infantry got nerfed, so Riflemen are a good thing to pick up. Behemoth no longer has a subcortex but its bombards picked up Powerful Attack and Armor Piercing works on all base sizes now. Karchev is playable, although the current version is pretty meme-tastic spamming Mad Dogs and/or Kodiaks or Juggermauts. Speaking of, Juggernauts are now MAT 7. ManoWar heay infantry (and Convergance heavy infantry) are some of the only heavy infantry that kept eight boxes in the edition change, although both Demo Corps and Bombadiers are still bad. Irusk2, Karchev, Butcher1, Sorscha1, Vlad2, Butcher2, Butcher3, and Kozlov (your new BB caster) are showing up in high tournament placement.

>>50309287
Is the Karchev powerslide still a thing?

>>50308832
Thornfall Alliance just got a theme force, as can be seen in the OP, and it's pretty good. Carver got better, pig beasts largely got a bit better, Alten Ashley is pretty ballbusting if he can't be answered quickly, and pig infantry got better, while gator infantry got nerfed. As far as CoC goes, I hope you owned TEPs before, because they're obnoxious as hell to play against now. Lucant is still good although not as good, Aurora got some recent rules buffs, Axis is still a great scenario caster, Syntherion is still good and upkeep hate is less common, etc. So the good news is all of your factions aren't in the dog house power-wise.

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>>50309327
No, but I'll see if I can dig up his cards.

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>>50309385

>>50309327
No, but Karchev is winning tournaments by spamming Mad Dogs, so there is that.

>>50309385
Almost there

>>50309327
Well, I managed to find half of it. The other thing is that Mad Dogs are now only seven points (so more or less 4 points in mk2 terms) and have the boxes of a full heavy, so it's a metric ton of boxes to chew through.

>>50309336
Good to hear. Am I still good to use War Room for reference, or is it outdated?

>>50309385
I actually beat a Karchev meme list with Morghoul1 and just 4 titans. Nothing feels better than a Bronzeback killing 2 Juggernauts in 1 activation.

>>50309454
War Room has now become War Room mk2, which is still clunky but if you owned decks of the old WW before I think January of last year they are redeemable. For list building, try Conflict Chamber.

>>50309327
Nah. He just crams 10 heavies down your throat and you just lose. He's also a lot harder to kill now and assassination is an option for him.

So I'm looking to buy into another faction. How is CoC in mk3? I liked the look of their things and they seem really good despite their limited model selection.

>>50309462

BB's are still pretty strong.

>>50310328
They don't have an animus anymore though.

>>50309693
They be having troubles.

Most likely due to limited gene pools. No one plays memebots and the bot selection is so limited. So broken maymays are not showing up.

Except maybe drags mcdragster and double dildo action which seems memetastic.

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This workable? Just played my first game today on 20pts and my friend advised this for a set up and expansion from what I got already.

Also a quick question - Performing an assault on a unit with Counter measure If the Model starts outside the Spells shutdown range for the assault can it make the ranged attack or does it have to move into melee? And thus Trigger the affects of Counter Measure and thus shut down Countermeasure.

Because Fuck a unit that has Stealth and Countermeasure

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guys, i know Cryx sucks but i have a hard-on for Satyxis.

how do i make a good list with them?

i see we get new gun-girls----in packs of 3?

i am thinking of taking Broken Coast Skarre, but now the only heal in that army is the knife Skarre normal carries.

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>>50312429
Satyxis are one of the few salvageable good things in Cryx at the moment. None of the Satyxis stuff is bad, just do what you want, mang.

That said, I've had some success using Satyxis with Asphyxious 1. Satyxis can survive shooting and are able to get to mat 8 with gang, they just have shit for P+S. a potential 5-point swing in that department is pretty significant for models with 2 attacks. Plus, you have the benefit of having one of the few Cryx casters that actually IMPROVED with the change to MK.3.

>>50312429
The Satyxis units and solos are all good. Much better than most of the undead infantry. Skarre1 is great, Skarre2 is ok.

>>50312429
If you really want healing, you can take a Corruptor I suppose. An Inflictor and arc node bonejacks might be a better choice.

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>>50311749
That list isn't going to be bad but it's not particularly optimal. Really you'll do fine until you run into people that try to field heavily optimized lists; Cygnar is just good across the board and you don't have any *bad* stuff on there.

You're spending 21 points on Stormblades, when 20 points of Storm Lances are going to be better in most cases, and work better with Maddox (and, really, with... just about every Cygnar caster).

Maddox has an ARM buff that only works on units (which Storm Lances love), and you've got a junior who has an ARM buff that works on anything, and the most ideal target for that is (if not a second unit of Storm Lances) a Centurion. Not that the Stormclad is bad by any stretch (and it's actually really good with Maddox because she's a Storm Knight), the Centurion is just *better* if you've got the Arcane Shield to spare.

Sylys doesn't do much for Maddox since she doesn't like to cast offensively much (and when she does, she usually wants to hit jacks with her disruption spell, which tend to have lower DEF so Sylys doesn't help as much there anyway).

Trying to use as much from the battlebox as possible, I'd suggest looking at pic attached as a reasonable list to build towards, noting that it is 2 points down, but a) it's still good, and b) everything in it you either already have or is near universally useful in Cygnar lists -- you can actually run this list *exactly* with Haley1 swapped out (and it actually works exactly on points), and it'll work quite well.

>>50313144
To follow up, Centurion/Junior/Trenchers/Storm Lances is pretty much the generic Cygnar starter set these days.

And Arcane Tempest Riflemen are *that* good.

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What do you imagine some of your favorite casters/locks sound like when you read about them? I like to imagine that Asphyxious sounds like pic related, with an imposing sinister theatric voice that only someone like Lee could create.

>>50313372
I imagine Deneghra having Matt Berry's voice.

It makes all her fiction much better.

>>50313372
I imagine Reznik is voiced by James Earl Jones. And Vindictus is obviously voiced by the guy who did Starscream.

I want to fall asleep and wake up in January when it's not Circle Christmas

>>50310328
>>50310358
They're just more expensive Gladiators that trade an animus for +1 to hit and damage. Might as well go for Zaadesh+Gladiator or a Soldier.

And the next faggot who says "oh but they manage Fury" gets my two full units of beast handlers to the face.

>>50315545
Silly child. It's always Circle Christmas.

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>Want to play WMH
>LGS is overrun by 40k
>none of it sells anyway
>cant even play that

Fuck. I wish I lived in one of these fantasy places where people are playing games all the time. Instead, I'm stuck with 2 LGS stores full of magic players.

I had a guy tell me that spent $1000 dollars last month on magic, A FUCKING GRAND, and that same guy said he didn't want to play a miniatures game because it was too expensive.

Fuck

Fuck fuck fuck

I feel like I'm going crazy. I just want to play with overpriced miniature damn it. I can't even find the will to paint them be wise no one will ever see them.

>>50316264
Here's a plan:

Get a 2 player battle box (Warmachine preferred). Paint the repective battlegroups. Bring all that shit to the LGS and show that game to the person you dislike least. And don't forget to bring the LoS-Laser. That thing just shows that you mean business.

And if that doesn't work, give up and play on Vassal.

>>50317890

I have thought about getting the 2 player box because Cryx look cool (neither of the horde boxes interest me), though I really want to play Gators and wrastle everything to death.

>>50316031
>They're just more expensive Gladiators that trade an animus for +1 to hit and damage
Well yes and no. Here's what you get for your points over another Gladiator.

>Higher MAT
>Higher P+S
>+1" to throws
>Smash and Grab
>Countercharge
>Fury management
>A different animus

With any caster that can increase damage like Morghoul1, a Bronzeback can stand 1" from two heavies but not between them, and comfortably kill both. Dump your initials into one, chain attack throw it into the other heavy, then just go to town buying attacks. The Gladiator's special rules about slams are honestly pretty useless. I don't think I've ever slammed with mine and I've played for a few years.

>>50318709
>>Higher MAT
>>Higher P+S
One lower than a Gladiator under Zaadesh.
>>+1" to throws
>>Smash and Grab
Oh wow.
>>Countercharge
Valid. CC is pretty great.
>>Fury management
I take 4 fury management models minimum in any list anyway.
>>A different animus
A worse animus.

>>50318776
>One lower than a Gladiator under Zaadesh.
That means 1) suiciding Zaadesh, and 2) risking losing Zaadesh early in the game and wasting a warlock activation scooping up your Gladiator who is now worse than a Bronzeback.
>Oh wow.
A free throw on one heavy into another heavy is basically two free attacks. That's not "oh wow", that's insane.
>I take 4 fury management models minimum in any list anyway.
And you think I don't? The free management off the Bronzeback 1) lets you camp transfers harder, 2) lets you bring less Handlers than you otherwise would've, and 3) guarantees that you'll be able to transfer to any titan.
>A worse animus.
I never said it was good, I just said it was different, which means it does more than a 2nd instance of Rush does.

>>50318776
Oh and I should've added that a Bronzeback has like 4 more boxes too.

>>50283947
Okay, so PP has got a successful miniature wargame, a tabletop that does okay, boardgames I don't know much about and a failed card game. Is there any other LGS medium they could invest into?

>>50319522
Invest more into improving current products rather than spreading an already mismanaged company even thinner.

Is the Discord server still online? I downloaded the app on my android phone, but can't seem to find any warmachine chat. The link from two threads ago doesn't seem to do anything.

>>50301170
Hey, you don't have farrow commandos in the thornfall list.

>>50320676
Also, having issues with the free models.

I've got a meat thresher, brigands, min bone grinders, slaughterhousers, and 2 razorbacks, which is 60 points.

I add two efaarit scouts and they're free, then add a brigand warlord but it still costs 4 points.

>>50320563
https://discord.gg/KmXzbwD

>>50319825
I mostly asked because I suddenly thought about broadening my hobbies without leaving my safe bubble.

>>50320722
Check that it's not giving you one of the razorback crews for free.

Skorne Command book when

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>>50323320
>Skorne

There was a 40-players tournament in Poland this weekend with most of our top players.

Here are the results:
>http://tournykeeper.com/#/tournament/details/194

>>50324411
>9th
>Skorne
>Makeda3
WHAT SORCERY IS THIS WHERE ARE THE LISTS

>>50320676
This is fixed now; sorry for the oversight.

>>50320722
If this is still a problem, can you upload an image of a list that's incorrect? I'm not seeing the problem; CC is pretty aggressive at finding the most valuable models to choose as theme bonuses, and can actually change them as you add new entries to the list.

>>50326756
Seconded. And if you get the lists... conflictchamber.com#submit is there :)

>>50319522
I bet they could make a good collectable card game.

>>50326799
Do. Not. Give. Them. Any. Ideas.

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>>50326777
Min bone grinders + brigands + razorback + razorback + slaughterhousers + meat thresher is 60 points.

>Small (3-4 round) Steamroller coming up
>Play Skorne
>Thinking of just taking one list instead of two because if my second list doesn't get used I'll most likely get screwed in the last round
Can Xerxis1 carry his faction on his shoulders in another edition of the game?

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>>50328116
Yeah, there's a bug there, this is what I'm seeing with the same list. I'll try to get it fixed asap.

>>50328120
I've played zaadesh a few times and he's solid. You 100% need despoiler, and I haven't even used countercharge yet I think, but putting out a nice cloudwall is great if you use terrain like you should, since you can use them to extend the size of other LOS blocking terrain.

My last game was a 50 point vs Testament. I had the fuel cache objective so linked his 3 clouds up with that one and was able to protect a line going from the objective to one of the flags on Extraction, totally blocking off that side. I kept him near the middle, on the other flag my nihilators under feat charged a reckoner, put enough nihilators into a reckoner at pow 14 and it'll die. My enraged aradus soldier took a total of 3 fury to kill scourge of heresy on my other flag. His infantry couldn't deal with not being able to charge, eventually just feating and running them through the clouds on my feat turn to have incorporeal negate my defensive strike and just try to jam me out, but zaadesh was able to flashing blade through a number of them, and my two heavies in reserve trampled over to kill his last jack.

This was the list:
http://conflictchamber.com/#b90OgOeF5GcQ5U6C6x4i

Skorne Army - 50 / 50 points

(Zaadesh 2) Lord Tyrant Zaadesh [+28]
- Aradus Soldier [18]
- Titan Gladiator [14]
- Despoiler [18]
Paingiver Beast Handlers (min) [5]
Nihilators (max) [15]
Void Spirit [4]
Saxon Orrik [4]

>>50328223
That would be incorrect too then, because you don't count the free units towards your total. So if a razorback is free that's 59 points of units/BEs.

I might legit have a WMH group starting up in my LGS. How the hell do I pick a faction? There's like 4 that interest me.

>>50330055
Roll a dice, flip a coin. See what everyone else is not playing.

>>50330224

>what people aren't playing

That's step one for me.

I've narrowed it down to:

>Cryx
Comes in the 2 player kit, and possible someone to split the 2-player box already. Soul furnaces and ghost robots sound neat.

>Convergence
What's not to love about clockwork shit in a steam punk setting? Sadly, no actual starter box.

>Circle
Werewolves, and druids oh my! Seriously, they seem like they have a lot of neat tricks, and I could potentially find an old 2 player box. Otherwise, the regular starter looks cool.

>Minions
Fucking voodoo swamp gators? Fuck yes. Falls in the same sadness as CoC, though. Also, kinda limited models.

>>50326756
I think Mak3 is one of our stronger warlocks. But 9th is still impressive with Skorne and I'd buy that guy a beer.

>>50330327
Cyriss aren't a real faction. They have fuck all models, get fuck all releases and are limited as fuck.

They're better as a side faction once you've gotten everything you want for your main faction.

>>50327389
They already did card games with High Command and it was shit.

>>50330803
Well hats one down. Guess I can cross the gators off, too? For similar reasons?

So, I guess that leaves Circle and Cryx.

>>50326799
Yeah and you'd think they could do a solid tactical computer game....
>not if you consider warroom:the debacle

And then you see what is Tactics!

>>50330824
Minions are quite a difficult faction to play. Go with Cryx imo senpai.

>>50326756
http://www.mediafire.com/file/p34b0cttc7b5n35/listy+wojna+światów+2016.pdf

More or less, I believe someone dropped and a bonus player joined or something.

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>>50313372
Scott McNeill as pic related.

>>50330824
If you don't mind the limited release schedule, there's no reason to not go Cyriss. Just because they have fewer releases doesn't mean they're not competitive or fun to play.

>>50331024

Split the two player or get the battlebox? Both?


>>50333870

Now I'm confused and conflicted

>>50330824
Don't listen to the naysayers like this when picking a faction. The most important part of faction choice is that the design philosophy and aesthetic appeals strongly to you.

Look at it this way - your models will be with you a long time, probably many years if not decades. The current iteration of the rules will not. The balance of WMH changes with every new model release and errata.

The development of your skillset is a much more important factor in your wins than faction choice. It's not until you reach an expert level and you're trying that last 1% out of your lists that faction choice really becomes make-or-break. Worrying about the balance of a faction for high level tournament play as a new-ish player is pointless. By the time you actually break in to high-level tournament play (probably about 2 years for a talented player getting in 4+ games a week), the rules and balance will have changed anyhow.

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>>50328274
Should be working now, although the list cost previews and search functionality on themes aren't exactly correct.

>>50334344
Ok, so Convergence is a limited release faction, which means it's not going to get a lot of shit. It's gotten one new model since the faction dropped 3-4 years ago, and it has a smaller pool of models than the main factions in general.

However, Convergence also has a very unique playstyle due to a lot of it's rules, and the faction has some of the best models in the entire game in it's stable. This means it's plenty competitive and can be very fun to play, though it requires more planning than most factions do.

So if the downsides don't bother you(smaller pool of models, less chance of new stuff coming out) then go for it man, dive right in. But if those issues are a concern, then avoid it.

>>50335262
When I try to add Hutchuck or alten ashley to fill the list out the warlord goes back to costing 4

>>50333114
>Scott McNeill
Not a bad choice you got there. Was there any specific voice role that he's done that sold you on that depiction?

>>50334344
speaking as a cryx player since mark 2 there fun to play with all the tricks you can pull out of your ass that isn't just a straight gunline or melee slugfest. Even in the state there currently in if you know what your doing you can do real work on just about everyone else.

the lore/ aesthetics of cryx is also pretty cool IMHO.

>>50335739

The biggest thing turning me off of the stuff like Gators and CoC is the fact that they don't have battle boxes. It's concerning because, well I'll just say that I play Sisters in 40k, and I've more or less played a neglected army long enough. I'd rather play something supported with at least a battle box, you know?

So, while I agree that CoC looks awesome, idk that I can bring myself to play them right off the bat after looking into it more.

>>50334902

That makes sense. Thanks.

>>50336880

Yea, I'm currently leaning towards Cryx, though you didn't make it sound like they're in a good place atm. At this point for me, that likely doesn't mean anything.

Still torn between Cryx and Circle. It's like a life and death decision.

>>50337195
If you're starting alongside other people, Cryx are most likely a fine choice. They did get nerfed and lost some tricks, but they got nerfed from a position of retarded powerlevels and are now in a meta they can not take part in (gunlines) due to lack of shooty models.

However, if you're not playing tournament meta, Cryx are perfectly fine. They still have some powerful units, tricky casters and strong jacks.

Stick to Bane units or Satyxis and you can't really go wrong, they're all solid.

>>50337195
Play Skorne, friend ;^)

No but really you can pick up a second hand Skorne collection very cheap and they're gonna get buffed hard come January

>>50337308

Alright, I'll go with Cryx then, especially if I have someone to split the starter box with.

How is the 2 player box for them? We'll hopefully do a Journeyman league, which I should be able to use that with, right?

>>50337958
>gonna get buffed hard
I wouldn't get my hopes up too much.

>>50338020
Well in Mk2 Skorne gave the impression of being an okay faction because we had some good tier lists, Mordikaar, and Molik Karn propping up the faction in tournament results. But now PP have puclicly admitted that Skorne is broken, and their tournament results are in the gutter. If they nerf Skorne any more, even I'll sell my collection despite the effort required.

>>50337308

Also

>Satyxis

I think you've sold me further, here. Demon pirates with soul furnaces sounds pretty sweet.

>>50337958

Skorne honestly don't interest me much. Their looks as a whole don't jump out at me, and they just seem eh.

>>50338095
I'm just saying. Don't expect too much.

>>50338128
All beasts +1STR
All infantry +1MAT
All solos 1 point cheaper
All warlocks gain another spell
Spell slaves can cast upkeeps again

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When I was 5, my grandfather bought me this giant model. He recently passed away and I want to honor his memory. Is there anything in Warmachine I could substitute this model as?

>>50338262
Wow, then we'd almost be as good as trolls.

>>50338637
Alright you fucking memer, give sauce

>>50338705
I dunno, a PS20 Savage under Zaadesh+Morg1 would actually be enough to kill a heavy on average rolls whereas at PS19 it can't really.

>>50338817
If it doesn't have to charge it will just squeak through a kill on a 32 box arm 19 jack, yeah. If it has to charge then it doesn't get a kill.

And a savage under zaadesh1 costs 12 points, which is the same as a warmachine heavy. And that's assuming you're using zaadesh himself to turn on tag team, which if you are then you get to use that trick once before zaadesh gets killed.

>>50338807
http://www.brueckenkopf-online.com/2014/adventskalender-2014-17-tuerchen/

>>50338637
You weren't funny the first time, and gotten worse with age.

>>50339404
>And a savage under zaadesh1 costs 12 points, which is the same as a warmachine heavy
Don't rub it in.

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>>50339404
>which is the same as a warmachine heav

What do you mean, the *same*?

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>>50337959
the two player box is pretty alright. aggy is a decent caster to start with she's got a good debuff spell a neat buff spell and a couple of utility spells, assuming your not facing legion or anyone who can grant an army truesight her feat is great against gunlines and lets you maneuver like no ones business, your going to come to love ghostwalk for all the shit you can do with it.

the deathripper is a nice cheap arc node that can do some good melee work if the situations right as sustained attack means he can just keep doing damage if you hit, id recommend you pick up another deathripper or a delifer not necessarily next but somewhere down the line as the ability to cast spells from another 14 inch's away is always good and will be great when you get more caster who can pull of spell assassinations, a word of caution if they hit the guy you've got maybe 2 or three good hits before his weapons or his arc node is broken and/or he's scrapped.

the slayer is a nice glass cannon for the points he's worth, much like a lot of cryx jacks if they can hit him he will break under enough pressure, but if you can get him on the alpha strike your going to hurt whatever you hit especially if you've done the smart thing and debuffed them first.

the reaper is a nice utility jack that requires some planning and focus but if you can play him right he will help you get the alpha strike and really screw with your foes plans. as I said he needs focus to pull off his drag ideally 2, one to hit and one to do damage, after that reel him in and go to town with everyone else that said if lucks in your favor you can get lucky and hit and damage a model with the harpoon drag him in and if you hit with the helldriver you just keep going same, as the deathripper, carful though he's got the same defense and armor as the slayer and can be a bit pillowfisted if not used right.

and that's the basics really I think your going to like cryx especially when you expand your army.

>>50333870
Being cyriss does mean they're not competitive though.

And they play unlike any other faction across wmh. Where as gators, and minions in general, are hordes: so fury management and animi can be learned for when you want to play a big boy faction.

>>50340745


Thanks, man!

For expanding, I do want Satyxis stuff because you blood magic and pirates, how do I go about including those? Is Skarre good? She seems to be the on theme pirate demon.

>>50340760
Why do people think CoC aren't competitive?

They're absolutely competitive.

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>>50341328
>Is Skarre good?
Her bust certainly is.

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>>50341436
>le great rack joke
never change fapmachine and whores general

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>>50341328
Satyxis were one of the bigger things to get me into the faction along with the jacks, the lore and denny herself among a few other casters.

skarre is good in both forms really but they play a bit different from each other so you need to take a look at her card to see whats up.

Satyxis are good you cant go wrong with any of them, we just got a 3 woman gunmage unit which is the one unit iv been asking for since I started the game, aside from providing some much needed in house firepower the gunslingers have three ability's when they shoot, the have Black Penny which ignores the "target in melee" DEF bonus, so run some mechithralls up to the front lines and you can shoot into melee with a bit more confidnce.Blood Mist from the blood witches puts a cloud effect is put in place if you kill them which is great for screening your army again you can run some thralls up shoot them in the back and shutdown shooting and charging while the rest of your force moves up. From the raiders they get Feedback,If they damage a battlegroup warjack, its controller suffers a little damage too great for attacking lights with less ARM and good for heavy's if you can damage them because odds are you will hit them then the caster has to choose between taking a point of damage pershot or spending a do cause to negate it thus looking some resources, also great with skarres blackspot for a potential 12 shots if you kill them. that said I recommend getting them second after wither the witch or raiders just because there a 3 woman unit that you want to keep back for a bit.

now regardless of which you get you want the UA's they make a decent unit great. blood hag for the witch's and sea witch for the raiders

>>50341614
Awesome. Sounds great, then. Guess I'll have to get a suite and add them to the Journeyman tiers.

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>>50341328
>>50341614

the bloodwitch's have stealth so that's great but there slightly slower at speed six compared to the raiders speed 7, also be warned if something hits them they will probably die, the good news they have some nifty ability's, both the witch's and raiders have gang so if you get them all stuck in there effectively MAT 8 and in the case of the witch's their blood razors are P+S 12. they have blood mist as I said before but they have two other ability's, Blood Shadow,if they kills a living or undead model, this model can gain Incorporeal, this is on a model by model basis so its situational but can be useful if you get a bunch of them inrcop as it limits what your foe can do to you. They also have Death Strike if this attack kills a living or undead model, you can auto-hit another nearby model with a POW equal to the dead model's STR. generally this isn't going to win you the game but it will help in killing more models in a unit for maybe you can get lucky and put some damage on something heavier. the hag does 3 neat things, she gives them all blessed so there weapons ingnore all DEF and ARM buffs on an enemy, they can keep this even if the hag is killed, the hag can also dispel any spells or anmi on the target if she can hit them so if your having problems targeting someone with spellward hit him and then spell sling away. the hag also grants Entropic Force in which nearby enemy models lose tough and the ability to be healed/repaired great for fighting tarpits with tough or multi wound models that heal such as warbeasts so blood witch's are pretty good against hordes and infantry.

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>>50341328
>>50341614
>>50341773

and finally the raiders have gang as well but there speed 7 and have a 2 inch reach so you can really crowd them in there to get gang, there main weapon has feedback and is a chain weapon so it ignores shields and bucklers, great for going against manowar when they shield guard as it takes away the thing that makes them hard to hurt. the seawitch can cast 1 of 3 spells each activation Red Tide - Affected models gain Overtake.(Overtake - When this model kills something with a basic melee attack, it gets a free small move.)True Wind - Affected models gain Pathfinder. Whipping Winds - Affected models gain Force Barrier generally speaking you want whipping winds to start before you get to the fight as it helps with survival from shooting and blasts which can and will kill your ass dead, true wind to get into the fight especially if your comeing from another attack angle from say a forest, and redtide for better postioning during the fight. raiders are gennerly best used asidnt warjacks and infentery but much like the blood witch you really cant go super wrong if you take one or the other.

hope that helps a bit man, as I said Satyxis are my favorite unit, compine them with the right caster and let the fun begin, I always love to see my oppent go bugeyed and start shiting when im able to run my girls halfway across the board on turn one

also grab a unit of mechaithralls or carrion thralls to act as bullet sponges so you ladies don't get shot up right away.

Has the restic that PP uses for models like iron fang pikemen and Khador jacks gotten any better? I'm not talking about new models but later runs of old models.

Who would you take flameguard cleansers with?

Feora1 for veteran leader seems nice, and with ignite on them and her character jack nearby they can do some great damage with assault and charge attack.

What about malekus? Would enough of them be able to be delivered and hit their targets?

>>50341336
evidential provision where?

>>50342603
Just because no one's won a tourney with them yet doesn't mean they're not competitive.

They've got plenty of strong models and casters to put on the table.

>>50341614
>>50341773
>>50341855

Awesome, man! Sounds great. I've been sold on demon pirates, mech zombies, and spooky ghosts.

I think Skarre1/2 and Denny2 will be my expanded casters. The former for being queen of the demon pirates, and the latter for spooky ghost queen.

>>50342352
Eh, I've tried them with Malekus and they're just not that good. They're really expensive too-both money wise and points. They could see some use with Kreoss1 or High Reclaimer.

>>50342352
They're beautiful with Malekus.

Expect to see him more as Una2 becomes the meta's boogeyman.

>>50342985
If I'm taking high reclaimer I'm loading up with knights exemplar desu

>>50343023
Okay, I can't see this happening. They need 10s to hit griffins. The best you can do is flare one of them with a reckoner, and that one reckoner hit will basically kill the griffin. If you're wanting to go that path you're better with repenters since they can boost.

>>50342985
If you think boosted POW 12s with an 18" threat range that ignore stealth, cover, concealment, and effectively line of sight and can hit multiple models are "not that good", we're going to have to agree to disagree.

>>50343083
They still have the core rat 5 issue. Feora1's veteran leader might be the only viable way to use them. Boosted pow 12s aren't a threat if they can't hit.

>>50342352
>Who would you take flameguard cleansers with?
I'm thinking about taking them with pSevvy and a vessel of judgment.
Rat 6 pow 13 fire sprays with rerolls and an out of activation spray seems pretty good. But then again almost everything but deliverers are good with pSevvy

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>>50342984
glad I could help sell you, one of these days ill grab skarre, all I really do with her is theroycrafting but iv seen the shit work, a buddy of mine and I took second in a 2 on 2 turny using skare1 and denny2 the only reason we didn't get first is because our last oppents took wurmood and kromac and turned it into a shit show turn 2.

im just waiting to assemble denny3 and get her all done up before I use her. I like denny 2 despite her unpopularity, use her spells well the shenagins iv pulled with curse of shadows and dark banishment as won me more games then I can count, also if your using denny get nightmare he's one of if not the best jacks in our arsenal, he's got permanent ghostwalk so you ignore terrain and freestrikes, and while he's in dennys control range he has stealth, he a murder machine especially against the things hes got prey on. that and is lore is pretty fucking cool as well.

>>50343063
Una2's scariest trick is her 18" run-to-engage-while-immune-to-melee-so-you-die-next-turn.

Malekus has Scourge. Point blank, it doesn't scatter. Una2 tries that on him, he counter-feats and wipes out all the griffons with cleansers.

Even without relying on Scourge, unless Una2 feats, Cleansers with minifeat out-threat griffons *while saccing movement to aim*, and while hard 8s aren't great odds, you get a lot of shots. And at ARM 13 22 boxes, you don't need many. *One* hit under Malekus's feat averages 19 damage to one (keeping in mind that it also sets them on fire, the fire cannot go out under feat, and then adds a die).

And if Una2 feats to kill your cleansers, they earned their points.

>>50343183
Scourge is an aoe3 cost 4. I don't think that aoe3 is catching more than 3 or 4 griffons, and the rest of them will happily kill malekus the next turn.

>>50343095
RAT 5 ignore cover/concealment isn't *that* bad, and with 8/10" sprays, they tend to generate a lot of shots, and under minifeat they have a pretty good (18") threat range.

I think Malekus does a lot more for them than Feora1, just because in addition to getting an extra die when they hit, their fire doesn't go out and *it* gets an extra die, too.

They're definitely not a panacea, but spray 10 goes a long way to overcome RAT 5.

So these skorne changes do not impress me at all.

Only good things I see are 16 point Soldiers and krea aura.

>>50343256
???

>>50343266
http://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?264577-The-wait-is-pretty-long/page3

Soles opened his fat mouth and despite everyone in the thread attaching their mouths to his anus most of what he has show us is not that big of a deal.

>>50343236
Cast it twice; if you take a Wrack and a Hierophant, you can do that and camp 1 Focus afterwards. You are going to be vulnerable, but then you move the rest of your army defensively after you kill half of his army.

Also, you'll be getting several shots on each griffon, and likely several at RAT7, too. Back strikes aren't out of the realm of possibility, since if done right you've got them on both sides of Malekus and it's going to be a game of twister to maximize threat on Malekus without exposing back arcs.

>>50343283
Free charges are back

Make Skorne Great Again

>>50343381
In a really shitty way but yes.

>>50343411
So now it requires base to base, in mk2 it forced a charge and had a 3 inch range. Who gives a shit?

>>50343429
Because the three inch range protected you from blasts.Now we have more blasts at larger sizes.

>>50343447
can't you just move your paingivers into b2b the turn you need prodding?

>>50343447
You move the beast handlers into base to base on the turn the charge happens. You don't need to be clumped up on the opponent turn. They can walk 6 inches fyi

>>50343473
>>50343460
Unless your trying to heal your warbeasts from being shot on approach.

Literally could have just made PGBH auto hit warbeasts and give our Warbeasts Pain response but nooooooooooooooooooooooo.

>>50343512
If you're trying to heal then you're B2B anyway how the fuck does this change anything?

>>50343549
Because you mongoloid they used to never have to be base to base ever.

>>50343568
And in mk2 you could only medicate a beast once in a round. Now you can have all 6 of them pile on your mammoth if you want.

>>50343597
don't bother reasoning with this "man".
He wouldn't be happy with skorne if they were the fucking uniherd

>>50343597
Which wouldn't be any more broke if they could do it at 2-3 inches and be safe.

The only thing about them that made them op was condition.

>>50343611
I'll be happy when then stop beating around the bush and actually make us a goddamn faction worth playing.

>>50343283
Most of that honestly sounds pretty fucking great.

>>50343411
YOu mean way better than before? Beast Handlers are SO much better than in Mk2 with that change.

>>50344930
Most of it is what Skorne had in mk2.

>>50345621
Not really.

WM Acurai, Power Swelled MAT7 Swordsmen, Long Leashed Archidons, Fury 6 on Morg2, there's quite a few new pieces of info in there.

>>50343283
Soles hinted as some caster change too, but he didn't tell us much.

I think that excluding adjustment to point cost all that Skorne need ATM for putting the army in the competitive scene is :

- Krea +2 ARM;
- A caster with Deceleration ;
- A caster with Fury and defensive/SPD buff;
- Power swell on swordsman.

This way you have a good drop against gunline (with the old +4ARM against shooting) and a good drop against heavy with a caster that can buff your infantry with Nihilator going POW 15 and Swordsmen POW 12 WM.

>>50289517
Buy the old MK2 2-player battlebox for Hordes, it's Legions vs Circle. And most places that still have it have it on clearance.

>>50343283
Holy shit some of these things they're testing sound good.

>Reptile Hounds now 3 points each
>Archidon getting a STR boost, Long Leash, and made cheaper
>Beast Handlers being given a free rule that lets beasts charge for free
>Morghoul2 now FURY6
>Soldier now 16 points
>Sentinel getting unspecified huge changes
>Rhinodon now 11/18, tail back to RNG2, tail has crit knockdown
>Xerxis2 losing Mobility, gaining Battle Host ("Warbeasts in the spellcaster’s battlegroup beginning their activations in its control range gain +2˝ movement when advancing as part of their Normal Movement. The spellcaster gains +2 ARM while one or more warbeasts in its battlegroup are within 3˝ of it."), so an Agonizer now gives Xerxis2 +4ARM
>All Cataphracts gaining tough
>Cetrati gaining Set Defense
>Arcuarii lose CRA but gain weaponmaster on their Harpoon
>Incindus going up to POW13
>Makeda1 getting Field Marshal [Shield Guard], and a huge overhaul in general
>Swordsmen going up to MAT7 and gaining Power Swell on their UA instead of Show of Force

On the downside there's
>Gladiator going up to 15 points ;___________;
>Raider not being changed, thus is forever worse than a Void Spirit

>>50346701
You'd still have the problem of list picking being a coinflip, then whoever lost the coinflip getting shitstomped.

>>50336818
Would you believe me if I said General Slaughter in the old BattleToads cartoon?

>>50346880
Depends it's not that all the pairings out there are Gunline/ARM brick because that not something all army can do.

Take Cygnar and Ret for example that the two army with the bst gunlines, probably you will always take the Deceleration guy, and even if the second pairing they got 2x Centurion with AS on them you always have option with throw ect.

Fury guys should be used against army like Khador where you see Mad Dogs and probably Irusk so you don't really need a +4 ARM, but a +2 help you the same.

>>50346802
>Reptile Hounds now 3 points each

Who cares the suck anyway.

>Archidon getting a STR boost, Long Leash, and made cheaper

They still suck badly. Everything you want them to do the Void Spirit does better. Should have just given them prey and 10 str.

>Beast Handlers being given a free rule that lets beasts charge for free

Yeah except now they have to be up close and personal to do it. Should have just given us old enrage

>Morghoul2 now FURY6

His problems are myriad and fury 6 doesn't change that really

>Soldier now 16 points

The only impressive change

>Sentinel getting unspecified huge changes
Sentinel got huge changes in mk3 remember how those went?

>Rhinodon now 11/18, tail back to RNG2, tail has crit knockdown

Still not enough it hits like little a girl. It needs to be +2 str and arm rather than +1. Crit: Abilities are ass you can't rely on them. Should just be chain attack knock down.

>Xerxis2 losing Mobility, gaining Battle Host so an Agonizer now gives Xerxis2 +4ARM

So a gimped version of Escort? Fun fact charging is not a normal advance so warbeasts lose when they want to engage. So now he really has to spam rush. Shame about fury 5 eh? It sucks and is actually a shit change.

>All Cataphracts gaining tough
Nice
>Cetrati gaining Set Defense
Man if only they weren't defense trash.
Perhaps getting back 8 wounds might make them more surivable
>Arcuarii lose CRA but gain weaponmaster on their Harpoon

Rng8, still slow, still die of anyone looks at them funny and are way to expensive
>Incindus going up to POW13

Nice but still die easy and cost to much
>Makeda1 getting Field Marshal [Shield Guard], and a huge overhaul in general

She got a huge overhaul in mk3 as well

>Swordsmen going up to MAT7 and gaining Power Swell on their UA instead of Show of Force

So now I have to take the UA and the base unit is still overcosted and they still die way to easy. Mat 7 battle driven fixes all their issues and was suggested all over the forums.

>>50349165
I see only what I want to see, the post.

>>50349277

I want to see the truth so I see the truth. :^)

>>50349165
>DOOOOOOM
You won't be satisfied until Skorne is Mk2 Cryx. On top of that you have poor understanding of the rules. Just stop already.

>>50349405
I won't be satisfied until Skorne returns to its mk2 state and gets the minor adjustments and buffs it needed to be great.

My understanding of the rules is just fine.

So the gladiator going up in price, and the raider being unchanged, means 1 of two things.

Either the savage goes down by 1 point, or Xekaar gets 1 extra WB point. Hope it's the former.

>>50349165
Advancing as part of their normal movement is the wording on escort too dipshit. It means any movement done during your normal movement phase of the activation. Walking, running, slamming, charging, trampling. Not sprinting, repositioning, counter charging, or whatever. Battle Host is Escort with warjack replaced by warbeast.

He said specifically that morg2 is getting way more changes than fury6, but they think they broke him and so they're still playtesting it. They don't want a repeat of mk1 morg2.

Sentinel got non-changes in mk3. It lost its animus and that's really it. What happened was far strike got changed which isn't a change to the model itself.

>>50349592
The raider will be mostly unchanged. Going to 8p makes the most sense.

>>50349165
Battle host isn't a gimped version of escort, it's the exact same, doing the admittedly stupid thing of having a different name for a spell. Also, battle host absolutely works on the charge.

>>50349632
Ok you're right. I mistook the mk2 rules for charging for the mk3 ones.

However as we have seen in the previous what? 13 years now? of playtesting that when a Skorne model is said to be to powerful in play test it ends up being trash on the table.

The sentinel got huge changes as you have noted. Those thing are all changes to the sentinel as they are what let him be really good. Now his gun is to short and he is to slow.

>>50349756
What huge changes specifically?

It lost 3 inches of threat due to far strike being different. That's change 1. What is the second huge change? Its animus wasn't even that important before, concealment and +2 def vs living in melee for a def 11 model that already basically ignores shooting. It just went from having a middling animus to not having an animus.

>>50349787
1 that 3 inch of threat is a huge difference and the animus wasn't self only. It also provided -2 to melee with in two inches of it.Also we lost ancillary attack.

So losing range and losing that makes so it gets two less attacks before the distance is closed.

>>50349952
Yeah, the range and the ancillary hurt the most. But it's not that bad. Getting +2 melee damage on the animus and Erosion on the shot would already fix it.

>>50349952
Yes, like I said. +2 def in melee vs living. The animus was pretty irrelevant. I guess it could be okay if your warlock used it as defense from an assassination by living models but I never saw it used like that once.

Miniature Market is having a sale on a bunch of shit. Most of it is trolls, but they have a few old 2 player boxes.

>>50350015
Concealment and then on top of that +2 def vs living is not irrelevant especially with a model that is mostly a hordes drop.

>>50350289
+2 def vs living within 2 inches. It's not like you get to stack the two effects.

Anyway, black friday bundles look fucking terrible. For the low price of $117 you can get a circle battlebox, a satyr kit, and wolves of oroboros. That's $12 off MSRP! What a steal!

>>50350278
Thanks for the heads-up. Kind of glad there's nothing in there for me.

>>50350330
Not but it relevant through out the game. Also casters who liked to take them can cast it on themselves. Like Morghoul1 or Hex2 so he can Cloak on a unit. Back when our units where vaguely relevant.

>>50350394
Morghoul would never cast that on himself, are you high? The only animus either morghoul used was Safeguard.

>>50350428
Are you high? Careful positioning can let you not get charged or thrown at. But some things can still get to you via teleporting or other sinister means. def 19 can be better than no knockdown in a lot of cases.

>>50350558
Hm. +2DEF or 2 Transfers. Hmmm.

>>50350602
def 19 is a hell of a drug you need 11s on mat 8 to even hit that.

Plus it's an even better option in mk3 since he has steady and a lower def.

>>50350558
So you've never had an opponent run a model up to morghoul, then slam their own model and knock him down? Man, must be nice living in your meta.

A 17/13 caster that has fury 5 is suicidal without a way to become steady.

>>50350640
In Mk3 it's not an option at all.

>>50350640
If the attacker is living

Warjacks don't give a shit, and neither does cyriss or cryx. Or some Skorne lists since they have ways to either hit you with constructs or to make a model/unit undead. Minions can do that too with witch doctors.

>>50350681
>>50350681

Why the fuck do you not have a model in front of morghoul like say a heavy with a long range gun and steady to stop that? Must be nice for your opponents in your meta.

>>50350684
It could have been if they didn't turn of their brains when designing skorne.

>>50350781
FYI steady doesn't stop you from being slammed. So I guess they slam your heavy into morghoul. The only way that would work is if the heavy is tiberion.

>>50350802
Oh, and if the heavy is tiberion, Mk2 character restrictions mean you can't take him in your second list which is usually Fist.

>>50350802
No but maximum slam distance is 1d6 so position accordingly Morghoul only needs his models in control. Unless it's feat turn which is a moot point.

50350822
Well lots of people also took Molik Karn in fist so that no loss.

>>50350905
So your half inch reach gun heavy is in front of morghoul far enough ahead where he can't be slammed into him. So why not just go around it?

>>50342984
>demon pirates

Satyr pirates

>>50350977
Please inform me of what models are going to have such fantastic threat ranges that they can run that far. And then after that tell me which models can then charge that far to get him.

This is of course ignoring that you are probably going to to be taking two sentinels any way and the contingent of cyclops support (Raider, Shaman, Brute for morghoul.) that you can also use to gum up holes in your lines. While on top of all this you have the free admonition upkeep from Marketh

If you think that running models like that into any warcaster is trivial and easy then you're simply a fucking moron. Try playing a game of warmachine somewwhere else besides in your head.

>>50349165
>The entire faction is getting buffs
>"WWWWAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH"
Like seriously, if you'd read that thread you'd know that a lot of the mentioned models are also getting point cost nudges. I'm pretty sure that in regards to Morghoul2, FURY6 was the only thing they wanted to say was concrete because the changes they've been playing with might have made him too strong.

I also like how you said the Incindiarii change was nice. It's like the weakest of all the changes considering they're still an expensive anti-infantry unit that relies on deviation to get work done. I still think they should stay the same but get their AOE bumped up to 4" if they make a CRA.

>>50351432
I think they should get wall of steel and gain the option for flare or continuous fire while becoming 16 points and getting CRA.

But I'll take pow 13, tough, and likely reduced points.

Most of the changes are "buffs" but the don't address the real problems of some of those models.

Like swordsmen. Swordsmen have hard time hitting the high defense of common infantry, hit like tissue paper, and get torn apart like said tissue paper. If the made them mat 7 and gave them battle driven instead of relentless charge this makes them hit harder, more durable, and more accurate brings their power level in line with their cost.

Power swell is nice, but its on the UA which makes the UA a must. Which means swordsmen hit hard for one turn and have all their other crippling drawbacks for 19 points rather than 15.

>>50351546
Swordsmen only need to hit really hard on the turn where they've charging at a heavy. Like they're now Skorne's very first small based weaponmaster, and they do it at base PS12 with a combo strike. Hell it might even be funny to give them something like Ghostly and have them charge in, combo strike a heavy to shreds, then side step behind and away from it so it can't kill them all on the back swing quite so easily. I've been a die hard Nihilator user, but Swordsmen are now looking like a real consideration.

>>50351123
Marketh only upkeeps if he has souls and it sounds like you're not bringing infantry

>>50351601
>Swordsmen only need to hit really hard on the turn where they've charging at a heavy
>a heavy
Think big. Think about playing them into Mad Dawgs.

>>50351601
Except like Nihilators they still get shot and aoe4'd off the table before they get to melee.

Battle driven lets them be resilient to shooting, melee, and blast damage while also boosting their damage and giving them pathfinder. If we can get some more damage buffs (Stir the blood on other casters) and some old ones back (Xerxi's 1 with Fury instead of Stir the blood.) they become very strong with a wide variety of casters.

>>50351678
>Stir the blood on other casters
I think you mean "Stir the Blood on the TyCom".

>>50351546
They're going to mat 7 too. And pow 9s at mat 7 will kill most single wound infantry, can combo strike if dealing with dawnguard.

>>50351658
You can afford a unit of nihilators.

Morghoul1 50+7 point list
Sentinel 8
Sentinel 8
Gladiator 8
Raider 5
Shaman 5
Brute 5

Willbreaker 5
Willbreaker 5

PGBH min 2
Nihilators max 8
Swamp Gobbers 1
Threaten assassination vs hordes and cripple beast swarms big damage shots. Morghoul mitigates alphas with feat or enables assassnations. He also can get sentinels to pow 18 Nihilators murder infantry and clog zones while giving souls to Marketh as needed.

>>50351700

GOD NO STOP. FUCKING STOP. WE TAKE TOO MANY SUPPORT MODELS AS IT IS WHILE OUR CASTERS SUCK.

>>50351700
Something for the Standard would be nice.

>>50351949
>GOD NO STOP. FUCKING STOP. WE TAKE TOO MANY SUPPORT MODELS AS IT IS WHILE OUR CASTERS SUCK.
If the support is strong I don't see the problem. The issue is right now we have weak support supporting weak models. Buffing our shit on top of the TyCom getting a battle plan worth caring about would be sweet. PS14+4d6 Swordsmen on the charge could take down basically anything.

>>50352503
Or we could put it on Mak2 so that we have all that and vengeance. For free.

>>50352556
Then we get shot off the table.

>>50352503
I mean my big problem with this is that we have like 5 casters who are tyrant rank or greater and regularly command armies. You would think that they could have battle plans.
Especially in the case of mak2 who often just camps 5-6 for stay death. Giving her say Stir the Blood, Reveille, and the +2 movement one would go a long way and help support every type of infantry she would like to bring.

>>50353318

Makeda2 gives them Vengeance, +1 SPD, and +2 DEF against ranged and magic attacks. She has the perfect setup for delivering hordes of infantry into gun lines.

>>50353476
Vengeance doesn't matter if nothing is left to make the attacks. Plus when you cast all that you have no fury to Stay Death with.

I like the idea of Mak2 delivering into gunlines. Its just that forgot that everyone makes there guns boosted attack rolls and that blast damage is everywhere.

Really they need to redo her so she has like solid ground or Iron Flesh