MTG MODERN GENERAL

> What Ever Happened To Combo Elves

Nothing, because that was never a thing.

>>50266443
When is bolt getting banned?

>>50267346
this thread is off to a good start

>>50267364
Because Bolt the format is such fun.

Anyone ever try non-Red Delver variants?

>>50267389
Can't play Bolts then.

>>50267416
but what if I don't want to play bolt?

>>50267384
>this people obssesed with bolt
And I can understand it but then I want giant growth banned too. And CoCo. And mindslaver because fuck tron.

>>50267346
There is this format you want to play called frontier, go there

>>50267623
Look at the stated ban list philosophy from Wizards. Nothing that warps the format around a single card or combo.
Bolt breaks that rule and nothings being done. Not even mentioned on people's lists.

>>50267643
I don't want to have to play a new extended format just because Wizards refuses to ban a card that breaks their own rules.

Also that format looks weak until new sets come out.

>>50267667
Well we don't want them to ban bolt just because it hurts your feelings, so fuck off

>>50267677
What a clear rationalization of why a card that breaks the very rule to keep modern balanced should be ignored. Cry more BoltBitch, R for 3 damage at instant speed is not healthy for a format if they want it to grow and evolve.

New player here, in the process of making a green stompy deck.
Once while I was seeing other decks I remember a green creature that looked like a goat which addeds tokens for every spell and instant played. I don't even remember the name but I'm considering adding one or two of that instead of 4 kalonian tuskers which could be cut perfectly. If it's too costly I will still cut at least one for a bow of nylea which is a must imo, sideboard my ass. Anyways if you can throw me a bone and remind me of the creature because I can't for the life of mine find it now.

>>50267522
Then you're in the wrong thread

>>50267835
Voice of resurgence. but is WG
>>50267754
Just because your tier 99 deck can't win to bolt it means that is unhealty. it helps to disrupt decks like infect and affinity, and gives fair deck a much needed removal tool. Fuck off and cry in frontier general faggot

>>50267872
Dismember and Decay do the same thing and can't be used to go face. And fair decks don't need that swiss army knife of a tool. You have so many other options that are 2 mana. If this is a "turn 3/4" format then you should have time to play a 2 mana kill spell.

>>50267346
replace it with stevie wonder bolt.

>>50267872
First of all thanks for the name, you nailed it anon
Second, fuck i don't want to splash, any budget options to horizon canopy?
Third fucking hell is the goat expensive. I don't know if I should go for it, after all I'm only running dryad with white. Maybe I could add path of exiles instead of dismember. Or maybe I should just forget about the fucking goat and go straight green. What do you anons think?

>>50267920
So path to exile should be banned because it's a one mana kill spell? Same with lava spike and rift bolt?

>>50267963
go straight green

it's likely that Voice will be reprinted in Modern Masters 2017

>>50267963
Go straight green. There isn't really any reason to splash for a stompy deck like that. And tusker is a reason to play mono-u stompy. Being able to put early pressure like is great, and even if they remove it you've only invested 2 mana into it

>>50267970
No. Because Path has a downside, Rift Bolt is only one mana when it's suspended and lava spike can ONLY go face.

You are just vomiting cards trying to justify your position and are failing. All of these cards have down sides or extra costs, that's why they are ok. Bolt has none of these.

>>50267646
Bolt isn't even that good, it's not like no deck plays creatures with less than 4 toughness because bolt is in the format

>>50268050
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/format-staples/modern

It's the #1 most played card in the format.There's not a card that is even close.

>>50267997
>>50267991
You guys are right. Even if I want to change later I can do it easily since everything is so cheap anyways.

>>50268021
Can you show us on the dolly where the bad Burn player touched you? Everything is okay, you're in a safe place now

>>50268021
How am I failing to justify that bolt is fine in modern? Your only position is that a removal spell warps the format, which is fucking stupid. You're moving the goalposts, and can't get over the fact that if you play a creature with less then 4 toughness it will get removed. Whether or not bolt is in the format.

>>50268126
But every removal spell has a higher cost or a downside. Bolt does all that for R and can kill a player.

The format is fast enough that small creatures or Goyf are the only options to play. Bolt kills the small creatures so if you want to play creatures you must play Goyfs. Real diverse format.

>>50268099
Path to exile is literally right there. and I hate thoughtseize and muh inquisition way more than bolt

>>50268164
Or you can play small creatures with a small mana cost so that if they do bolt it, who cares, and if they bolt you, whatever you hitting them in the scrptum for more. Just play mono-g stompy, it's the only option

>>50268177
Path is 6% in decks played. And path has a drawback.

>>50268197
So limit the format because one card warps what can and can't be played? Sounds like a card they should want to ban according to the ban list philosophy.

>>50267646
Show me where the burn player touched you

>>50268233
This is the typical BoltBitch a person who doesn't understand what a overpowered card is while they clutch their Bolts and Delvers. They can't hold a conversation because they are too busy trying to find a new netdeck so they revert to shitty attacks.

Tell me one reason to put mountains in your deck that isn't to play Bolt.

>>50268225
When I build a new modern deck, bolt doesn't stop me from playing certain cards, no more than any other removal spell does. If you are so worried about getting your guys killed go play standard. Any creature that bolt can't kill, dismember can and at that point dismember has no downside. The only time bolts are thrown at the face is when you're in the red zone, in which lava spike does the same shit. You're just arguing that removal shouldn't be played unless there are downsides to it
Sure sounds like a standardbaby's temper tantrum to me

>>50268287
Goblin guide, faithless looting

>>50268267
>Delvers
Newbie here, why is everyone obssesed with this card? It looks good but nothing that amazing, I don't get it. It needs some oter cards to transform and you depend on luck.

>>50268287
Valakut

>>50268287
Nahiri

>>50268287
I like yong pyromancer and monastery swiftspear is my waifu

>>50268316
It's most powerful in casual and pauper where you can brainstorm while the trigger is on the stack and have it flip almost 100% of the time. In modern it's alright. A good aggro creature that slots well into tempo decks.

It's also a 3/2 flier for one mana, because the decks that play it have more instants and sorceries then normal

Which do you guys think is better in the current day and age, Naya (Kiki-Jiki, BMoon, Magus,Pia/Kiran) or Abzan (Siege Rhino, Spike Feeder/Thune, Lingering Souls) Evolution/Chord?

>tfw have goyfs
>tfw don't want to play anything that can't jam goyfs now
This is true suffering

>>50268296
I've been playing Modern since the format started. And even after the first event I said that Twin, Bolt and Goyf should go. I remember being outraged when Nectal got the axe because it was "too centering for creatures" but Goyf, the most over used creature printed, got to stay and still is the only playable threat because of bolt.

So try another attack because you have no argument to defend your little Alpha design mistake.

>>50268287
Ash king the pilgrim

>>50268287
Koth of the hammer

>>50268287
Skred

>>50268403
How are you bitching about bolt but defending nacatl? In what world is it OK to have a one mana 3/3 but not have a bolt?

>>50268287
Reverberate

>>50268287
Blood moon

>>50268452
Because Necatl need conditions to be a 3/3 and even then you can always Flame Slash it. Necatl is a printed 1/1. Bolt is just a card that over performs for R at instant speed.

>>50268287
Cathartic reunion

>>50268452
Because, in the eyes of new players, creatures are fine no matter what they do

Spells are bad wrong fun

>>50268287
Scrambleverse

>>50268475
And spark underpreforms at 2 damage. And nobody plays that's. Like at all

>>50268481
Ha yeah this.

I'd much rather see goyf and several others ban looong before I bother considering Bolt.

>>50268489
They might if Bolt was gone. But more likely they would fine other options.You know, like a healthy format.

>>50268481
But anon, he said he's been playing since the beginning of modern! He wouldn't lie like that to defend a ridiculous position would he?

>>50268287
Tibalt, but tbf he deserves the ban hammer too

>>50268488
In modern? Ew. No.

>>50268506
Again, no real argument, just shitty personal attacks. Not surprising from someone defending a clearly broken and format warping card.

>>50268504
That's not what a healthy format is. That's not even close to what "healthy format" means. You really have no idea what your talking about, do you?

>>50268506
Would someone do that? Come to a Brazilian Body- Surfing board and tell.lies?

Most important argument to ban bolt is to drive the price down for pauper, obviously.

>>50268559
Bolt just needs to get reprinted at common again. No reason whit it should cost more then 50 cents

>>50268287
Mana barbs

>>50268529
If bolt didn't exist no decks would interact. Birds of paradise decks would be everywhere. It would be even more creatures the tappening. Are you really this ass pained about a simple burn spell?
>we should play bad cards with downsides
I think you want the standard thread my dude

>>50268513
Could you post dick? I have a tibalt and I don't know how to use him

Honestly I think the only way to help control decks without just helping combo and infect is to print wasteland in modern, and then unban 12 post since tron will be garbage

>>50268584
He was being facetious. Tibalt is fucking terrible unless he's used as some super secret spicy tech in dredge I don't know about

Why do people keep saying Nahiri is bad? She's easily the best walker printed since LotV

>>50268596
If control has a larger meta share, then combo can get a boost in strength because control decks will help police the format and keep them from being over represented.

Also you really don't want cloud post unbanned

>>50268582
That speaks to your ignorance of what cards are open to play in the format. You must be one of those people who just copy lists and blindly defend them without looking at other options.

>>50268604
It's just one shot poster that's been making the same thread for a year. Probably policy fun at the fact that everyone (not just /tg/ either) thought she was shit.

>>50268620
Just... Jesus Christ I need a drink

>>50268620
OK bud. It's your turn to provide since points. Which cards will see play?
>lol you just netdeck
Or just go back to your kitchen table

>>50268661
Disfigure, Flame Slash, Piracy Charm, Dark Blast, Flame Pillar.

Those are ones off the top of my head in a few different colors. But all of these cards either see no or fringe play because Bolt does all of these cards roles. And don't shit post about bad creatures, we both know that's not the point.

>>50268687
>bad cards aren't played because there are better cards to use
I'm in awe at how fucking stupid you are.

>>50268687
>Birds of paradise
>Bad

And none of those cards(cept flame slash) would see play. Gut shot has more of a chance of seeing play then those garbage limited fodder cards

What does it mean for a deck to be "resilient"

>>50268862
It usually means that a deck isn't stopped dead by the opponent's deck trying to disrupt it. Dredge is resilient to removal because its creatures come back. Merfolk is resilient to removal in some respects because the lords are redundant.

>>50268862
I hinder your main plan of attack. Can you keep going or do you flounder and go to next game?

>>50268862
Able to continue it's game plan despite removal, could tera and hand disruption. Take tron, which is fairly resistant. Because it's main game plan is putting out 3 lands and a planeswalker, its hard to disrupt. You can't make them discard an urza's tower, and even if you ghost quarter it it's pretty easy for tron to get another one (via expedition map, ancient stirrings and Sylvan scrying). And it's main win con is Karn Liberated. Because there aren't many removal spells for planeswalker (besides bolt. Hey look at that full circle) he is hard to deal with. And because he is colourless, it's easy to dig for one with ancient stirrings. Basically, make sure a deck is able to avoid having it game plan get fucked by your opponent interacting with you, and if they do it can quickly and easily bounce back

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Why is Punishing Fire banned in Modern? Can someone tell me why? It doesn't seem like life gain is running rampant even with lifelinkers, maybe there is a way to force your opponent to gain life? (I'm new to MTG in general)

>>50269147
Grove of the Burnwillow

>>50269147
See: Legacy Lands

>>50269147
Grove of the Burnwillows allos you to infinitely recur it and grants inevitability to decks that can run it. Also it makes x/2s a LOT worse because you can kill them basically for free, but in an actual serious way an not like that meme'ing retard who was bitching about bolt earlier

>>50268597
he's not

Is RG Tron good for a beginner? I haven't been playing Magic very long and the idea of a big mana deck is appealing. There are also so many decks to chose from in Modern and it's hard to pick just one

>>50269183
That's good. I was having a momentary existential crisis there for a bit

>>50269221
Tron is pretty brain dead. Basically your entire game revolves around assembling tron and then slamming any big threat you draw

>>50269221
Not really. Even though the deck is super linear, it's really unforgiving when it comes to making mistakes, and is positioned poorly in the meta right now. If you like big mane, try eldrazi. You'll be casting 4 mana creatures on turn 2, 5ana dudes with haste and protection on turn 3. Plus tron is pretty expensive to build "just to try out" because almost none of the pieces can go into other decka

>>50268720
Ayo hol up I agree with you on most of that post but don't you go dissin' my disfigure. Fight me irl nerd

>>50269181
>>50269169
>>50269179
Thanks friends, I didn't know about this land, i can see why punishing fire would be banned now, since you could freely pop any x/2s with ease and put people on a faster clock

are there any other old lands to watch out for?

Could Ghostly Prison work in G/W Tron?

>>50269519
Sure. Test it out, let us know how it goes. Your part of the wild west anon

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>>50269647
Ghostly Prison is ok but its a little expensive and won't stop aggression in the early turns as well as you'd expect.

You should give this a try, now this is a floodgate that you can get up on turn 0 and instantly suppresses the enemy and as a bonus its one-sided oppression that won't hurt your own guys

>>50268619
Nah; control has a great combo matchup, so wasteland -> more control -> less combo

Also cloudpost in the face of wasteland and without any of the legacy haymakers the deck uses (mud staples/ the mud concept is garbage in modern) and the dedicated twelvepost deck has 4x candle abra of tawnos along with al kinds of rad legacy lands. I think a modern twelvepost with wasteland in modern basically makes it playable tron

>>50268935
Another retard who has no clue what he's talking about.
>And it's main win con is Karn Liberated.
Nothing, NOTHING, that Karn does ever even theoretically wins a single game if your opponent's deck has less than 54 permanents.

Sorry had to go to work. But Bolt is still overpowered and should be banned

>>50270491
Lol wut?

>>50270396
Yeah, because control can stop combo (in the broad sense of rock,paper, scissors) if control is allowed to actually exist in moder, then wizards would have no reason to be afraid of combo decks, which would allow more things to come off the banned list. But WotC doesn't want modern to become legacy-lite, they push midrange, aggro, and tempo decks instead of the classic triangle. Modern's a weird format

>>50270491
>Ult Karn
>Not an auto-include
The fuck are you smoking?

>>50270736
The only way Karn's ultimate wins you the game is if your opponent plays enough permanents in his deck, gets 54 of them exiled with Karn and decks while drawing the opening 7 in the new game. Eating your opponent's hand or his permanents never (by itself) wins you the game, it just makes it harder for your opponent to win.

>>50270808
Damn phone
>Auto-win

>>50270843
read>>50270815

>>50269519
Ghostly Prison was for stemming the overwhelming assaults brought on by the Twin decks or when people were going to Empty the Warrens. It wasn't super good against Living End either.

I don't think it has a place in this metagame. You're welcome to test it but I think it's a shit card at the moment.

>>50270858
Read
>The fuck are you even saying? Are you drunk?
How is restarting the game with automatic advantage not winning the game? How bad are you at this game?

>>50270922
He's just trying to downplay the obviously retarded advantage tron decks have over pretty much every other deck because the circumvent the rules of the game. He doesn't want wizards to ban Urza's Tower like they should and put an end to the degeneracy

>>50270922
>How is restarting the game with automatic advantage not winning the game?
Because by doing (only) that you haven't decked your opponent, made him concede or get disqualified, given him 10 poison counters or reduced his life total to <=0.
>>50270941
What the fuck does this even mean?

>>50270941
Why would they ban any urza land? Tron doesn't have a large enough meta share to have anything worth banning. Plus land hate is real in modern with cards like F. mage, ghost quarter, and blood moon. If tron does become dominate again, then the correct answer would be to reprint wasteland in modern finally, and stop trying to police the format via the ban list

>>50270984
>and blood moon
I rustle my jimmies every time someone suggests this is good vs Tron.

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>>50270984
>Plus land hate is real in modern with cards like F. mage, ghost quarter, and blood moon
>Any of those
>Actually stopping Tron
Also Oxford Commas are for pretentious twats

>>50270997
Shhh , they'll hear you and realize crumble to dust is almost just as bad

>>50270984
land hate in modern is garbage

>>50271019
On the play t3 crumble past a possible warping wail is actually decent even though a t2-3 kill is preferable.

>>50271076
>Warping wail
Ever since that cars got spoiled I've been saying that it's playable in tron, and everybody was all "hurr durr, cards garbage anon, kys". Yeah well whose laughing now? Turn 3 ugins are the best feeling

>>50270997
It's great in my rug delver deck. That's only because I can back it up with major beats and stock up on counters.

I agree with your sentiment though, there is much better stuff most decks could be using

Is red worth splashing in merfolk?
You get bolt obviously and I would imagine your affinity matchup gets better

>>50271389
Seems like just splashing for bolt would weaken the synergy if the deck, but I know next to nothing about merfolk

do any of the gearhulks have a place in modern?

>>50271389
Bolt doesn't really add much to the deck to be honest. What are you playing it for? Reach? Removal? You don't need removal if your dudes are either bigger than your opponent's or have islandwalk and if you need the reach then what are you cutting to facilitate bolt?

>>50267963

>any budget options to horizon canopy?

Razorverge Thicket, GW painlands. Mana Confluence/City of Brass.

>One guy complaining about Lightning Bolt

Just fucking play a bajillion dudes. They've only got 4 Lightning Bolts.

>>50271550

Probably just Torrential Gearhulk. Being able to cast Cryptic Command for free while leaving a 5/6 dude is something to play around with.

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/gb-cloudstoneleap/
How's my list look? Planning on going to a Modern FNM this week.

>>50268287
Your playing a mono red deck.

>>50271007
>Also Oxford Commas are for pretentious twats
Shots fired!

>>50268620
All of the following are either immune to or counter bolt. They are all 1 drops. There are likely more, but it is late, and I am tired. All of these cards are answers to bolt. On top of that, there is discard, playing around it, etc.


UnBolted

Main:
1 Gladecover Scout
1 Slippery Bogle
1 Built to Last
1 Gods Willing
1 Enshrouding Mist
1 Brave the Elements
1 Ajani's Presence
1 Pay No Heed
1 Silence
1 Shielded Passage
1 Cloudshift
1 Faith's Shield
1 Stave Off
1 Emerge Unscathed
1 Shieldmate's Blessing
1 Healing Salve
1 Luminesce
1 Mana Tithe
1 Rebuff the Wicked
1 Mending Hands
1 Hallow
1 Blessed Breath
1 Turn Aside
1 Dispel
1 Stubborn Denial
1 Swan Song
1 Triton Tactics
1 Mizzium Skin
1 Outwit
1 Spell Pierce
1 Unnatural Endurance
1 Boon of Erebos
1 Built to Smash
1 Otherworldly Outburst
1 Brute Force
1 Ornamental Courage
1 Blossoming Defense
1 Vines of Vastwood
1 Shape the Sands
1 Ranger's Guile
1 Giant Growth
1 Mending Touch
1 Withstand Death
1 Healing Leaves
1 Avoid Fate
1 Steel Wall
1 Tasseled Dromedary
1 Lagonna-Band Trailblazer
1 Perimeter Captain
1 Yoked Ox
1 Kraken Hatchling
1 Sidisi's Faithful
1 Disowned Ancestor
1 Young Wolf
1 Scythe Tiger
1 Burrenton Forge-Tender

best colors for an eldritch evolution/chord of calling deck?

>>50273205
>eldritch evolution
This is the modern thread

>>50273335
yes and?

>>50274029
That is not modern viable

>>50272981
Let's see if I can do this right "but I don't wanna play around bolt!"

>>50274118
but what about chord of calling

>>50274200
There's a deck called Kiki Chord
That's probably your best bet for a deck using Chord of Calling

>>50273205

Eldritch Evolution gets run in Kiki-Chord decks from time to time.

Can seismic swans ever become a thing anymore?

If not, what needs to be printed to make it a deck?

Is Liliana, the last hope as expensive as it is because of modern, standard or both formats?

>>50274647

Chain of Plasma.

>>50271119
Not really the reason to play the card but good for you anon.

>>50272981
>silence
>answer to bolt
Do you have brain damage?

is Liliana, Heretical Healer good enough for modern?

>>50272981
>bogle
>answer to bolt
It's not an answer if you have to build your entire deck around it just to be effective. The deck bogles is good against bolt, the card bogle is not.

>>50271314
I've played vs a lot of not-decks and it's real fucking hard to lose when they tap out for moon and you either claim it eot or play an Oblivion Stone.

>>50269256
Spoken like a true salty Jund whore who has never played the deck.

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>60% of my opponents leave after T1 lantern

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>>50270984
>Plus land hate is real in modern

>>50276010
While I don't have any good criticism of the Lantern deck, I just don't feel good playing against it. Likewise I don't feel good playing against Infect, Burn, or Affinity and I also have nothing wrong against those decks. Win or lose I feel like I'm just wasting my time playing decks with interaction.

You get off work and you clean up and you rush to Magic and it just isn't fun. It just doesn't feel like it's worth the effort anymore.

>>50276110
>work
>clean up
This is a modern thread for serious competitive modern players, go the fuck back to the casual thread you fucking normie

>>50269941
jokes on you, my amalgams already ETB tapped

While you blokes were memeing it up, I broke modern with a brew i call Turn 2 Temur.
This deck is bonkers fast; criticize it all you like, it does what you'd want it to.
I can post a decklist if you want a cheap(ish) deck to stop around with on mtgo

>>50271874
I might try one or two in my Grixis Control. 5/6 is a real body.

>>50276359
I'm sure you'll end up posting it even if no one asks anyway

>>50274978
Try it. What kind of deck were you thinking? Replacing of the Veil in Jund/k?

>>50276359
>temur
No thanks, you sound like a standard faggot who started playing at khans, keep your shit brew out of the competitive modern thread and come back when you started at at least 8th edition

>>50276365
No i won't friend, but I don't see how it would be a damper either

>>50276387
It's mostly infect if that makes a difference. and it's not battlerage you pessimist. 8th blows by the way, bought 7th ed boosters as a kid. Good set for timmies.

>>50276359
change that godawful name and post it

>>50276395
it'd be a damper because it's trash

LSV sure has got fat over the years.

>>50276411
>7th edition
>modern legal

Nice way to prove my point, back to the kitchen table with your shit brew

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>>50276415
rude
>>50276428
very rude!

pastebin.com/DDR82txW

>>50276446
I can't tell if you're trolling, there's too much meta irony going around. be straight with me doc

>>50276508
>I'll just take an existing deck and shove SSG in it
anon, this deck has all the weaknesses of infect with much less strengths. You automatically lose to path, very often lose to bolt, etc.
Making infect faster has very little additional power because it's already the fastest of the decks in modern. Its weakness is when the opponent has too much interaction for its protection spells to stop. Your deck fails in the same way, except any removal is too much interaction.

>>50276530
I never said otherwise anon. The deck kills on turn 2. That's what it do.

optionally run more fetches to optimize become immense (1-2 of).
bring spells that kill skite and chalice in sb. baubles and traverse are ok, there isnt much to sideboard besides anti-hate so you could make a become immense/bauble package.

It doesn't take a genious to figure out 'dies to doomblade'. The deck turn 2 kills or it doesn't, that's all it aims to do.

>>50276530
and it's not as if 12 creatures is less than infect runs, it has a similar gameplan but it's built around speed only, aka turn2 temur.

as far as a name that doesn't suck eggs i'm gonna call it boltcheck.

the format needs a 1 mana removal police and damnit if infect isn't enough.

>>50276636
what the fuck are you talking about?

So modern is the inly eternal format im not playing. Should I get into it as well?
What decks are fun? Any deck is within my budget

>>50277069
What is your definition of fun? Mine is playing value creatures, and removing your creatures with value spells, so I like Jund.

>>50277177
Usually something somewhat out of meta but still established. I like representing a small part of the meta that is also a tough deck to pilot.
Think nic fit, grixis gifts. Not quite t1 but close.

Anyone has a cheap affinity build? I'm too poor to play it but I love muh machines. I already have a wurmcoil and a ravager too

>>50277408
Here's a budget mono-U build I adapted a few months ago. Only $70 to build.

4 Etched Champion
4 Memnite
4 Ornithopter
4 Signal Pest
4 Vault Skirge
3 Phyrexian Revoker (replace with Master of Etherium if you have them)

4 Cranial Plating
4 Springleaf Drum
1 Welding Jar

4 Thoughtcast
3 Thirst for Knowledge
3 Ensoul Artifact
1 Tezzeret the Seeker

13 Island
4 Darksteel Citadel

SB:
4 Relic of Progenitus
3 Reality Shift
2 Rapid Hybridization
2 Negate
2 Spell Pierce
2 Spellskite

>>50277408
>Affinity
>Wurmcoil
What?

>>50276366
I wanted to try brewing an esper delver or midrange deck, maybe using myth realized as a build around

>>50270997
>>50271007

When did the cool meme become that Blood Moon is bad?

>>50276362

>5/6 is a real body

Definitely, most instant speed removal your opponent is likely to play isn't going to kill it outside of Path. It dodges Dismember quite nicely and I actually play Torrential as a 1x of copy in Vintage Grixis Thieves just because i've cast it or Tinker'd for it straight into an Ancestral Recall or Dig Through Time.

>>50278477
Blood moon isn't bad, it's just not as great vs Tron as people think

>>50277069
technically it's a non-rotating format.

Honestly, if you play legacy there's little point playing modern.

>>50278584
Why wouldn't it just lock them out? I've never played tron or blood moon.

>>50278584

It's a fine card to have on the play. Just not worth having in on the draw.

>>50277069
What do you think is fun?

Infect and Dredge get free wins.

Grixis/Jeskai and Abzan/Jund are the two flavors of control and you'll take so long every round and have to work for every win but they're control and some people like control.

Grishoalbrand is fun.

Bant Eldrazi is probably the best zoo deck in the format.

Tron isn't fun to play but it makes people mad :)

Burn and Death's Shadow are pretty similar decks. The former being more linear.

>>50277403
Netdeck ffs
Also kikichord

>>50278218
Other than relying on your opponent to block/kill your stuff, how are you flipping lili? Show us list?

modern general, what's your current gauntlet?
I want to try Westvale Abbey as a one-of in Dredge. My thoughts are it's the 21st land replacing a spell, you get it back with Loam when you need it and making Ormendahl can end games and gain life against the mirror and burn. Maybe sideboard two as the life gain? It isn't as easy as Gnaw to the Bone to use.

>>50278577
Torrential Gearhulk sounds more viable in Vintage than it does in Modern because you can search it whenever and you have better instants to cast. The best things to do in Modern are counterspells and commands.

>>50278617
I'd agree with you if not for how many people play modern and not legacy.

>>50277069
Modern isn't technically an Eternal format, broheim. Eternal formats have all the sets legal with cards from the B&R list illegal. Modern stops at 8th edition.

>>50278713
Because Tron can hardcast Oblivion Stone, Wurmcoil, Karn and Ugin if there's no pressure and the usual tron sb has 3-4 Nature's Claims (not just for Moon but for lifegain vs burn, Affinity, Stony Silence etc).

>>50279583
>but it makes people mad
Ergo is fun to play, the act of moving cardboard around itself no matter the deck isn't fun but bathing in BGx tears is.

>>50279873
>>50278713
blood moon slows them down but doesn't stop them

>>50279667
>I'd agree with you if not for how many people play modern and not legacy.

Well then, what do you define fun? What do you play in legacy?

>>50279667

Well it's definitely more viable in Vintage for sure due to either fast mana or ways to cheat it into play and the fact that the instants allowed are more powerful. However you are right that the best value instants to cast off a Torrential in Modern currently are counterspells and commands but you never know when a bunch of fringe spells start showing up in control lists or ends up played as a sideboard card. I can see odd cards like Commandeer, Mindbreak Trap and even Summary Dismissal being played in conjunction plus you can still just get value out of painful removal like Dismember which would hurt if you were flashing it in from Snapcaster.

>>50279906
Shardless BUG.

The formats are different and ask different things of you. They're both fine but Legacy uses reserve list cards and is going to die eventually. At least we can hope modern masters reprints staples.

I do like Legacy better as a competitive format because stuff like Force of Will keeps people honest. I like Modern because there isn't stuff like Force of Will keeping me honest.

I'm not saying don't play Legacy, I wish everyone could play Legacy because it's a skillful format but if he already plays Legacy and has no budget, there's no reason not to play Modern.

If you play Legacy, why are you in modern general, where we talk about modern?

>>50279966
I see two benefits
>You don't need 2BBBB to snap back Cryptic Command
>6 toughness isn't easy to kill with damage spells except for 2 lightning bolt or like block + bolt
at that point I've already cast something with it
I'm pretty happy if they spend 2 bolts on gearhulk

downsides
>6 mana, which you can get to but you CANNOT use it on turn 3 to flash back bolt and chump block

I think some number in Grixis or Jeskai Control is definitely viable but the lack of super strong Instants is why people aren't using a ton.

At least it doesn't die to bolt before it does anything like flip jace.

Another card I want to test in Grixis Control is Bedlam Reveler but it just doesn't fit. Maybe a more aggro Grixis Delver would be better for it.

>>50280094
>2BBBB
oops I brainfarted so hard
2UUUU
not needing quad black is also true, it's just also true for snap cryptic

>>50280008
Then you may enjoy playing jund since it's also a midrange deck, however you could also try combo decks like ad nauseam or griselhoard since there's no FoW to stop their combos.

Otherwise you may want to look at valakut decks or aggro decks.

>>50279646
>Nontoken

Fuck I can't read, I was hoping to use lingering souls tokens to flip her. I guess I'll just use baby jace instead I suppose

>>50280110
its 1UUU not 5 mana

>>50277408
>6 mana in modern

>>50280460
>modern

>>50280171
I'm not the same guy who asked what to play. I thought you were saying there's no point to playing modern so I argued my points for playing both modern and legacy.

>>50280441
2UUUU is also six mana, not five.
Torrential Gearhulk into Cryptic Command costs 4UU
Cryptic Command costs 1UUU, plus the cost of Snapcaster Mage, 1U, so 2UUUU.
My point was Torrential Gearhulk into Cryptic is easier on mana than Snap Cryptic plus you get a 5/6. I wouldn't play the first Gearhulk before the fourth Snapcaster Mage but I was just brainstorming Torrential Gearhulk.

What's a fun cheap meme deck for modern, I was thinking maybe make UR mill for laffs.

>>50281594
>UR
Whoops, UB. Is there a UR mill?

>>50281594
harambe reanimator
TWoo did something on it

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>>50268604
Because one or two dudes speculated on Arlinn Kord and got burned when people realized Nahiri is great so they've been making those threads for a year to deal with all the salt and regret burning inside them.

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>>50280479
>Magic: the Gathering

>>50277609
Isn't it an artifact? What's wrong with it?

>>50281899
"Affinity" doesn't mean "any artifact." No Affinity list plays Wurmcoil or ever has

>>50281930
But why? It's an amazing card even though it costs a bunch

>>50282020
You just answered your own question.

>>50281626
There is and it's terrible. Look up Sphinx's Tutelage.

>>50280094
I was thinking more on it and I think Dark Dwellers is just better than Torrential Gearhulk most of the time. Sure, it's sorcery speed and can't do cryptic command but you can do ancestral vision. I still don't think it's needed right now with how fast the meta is.

>>50282026
So anything beyond a number of mana is useless in modern? What is that mana number, 4?
I'm sorry if I sound retarded but I'm new at this and I don't get it. Maybe because my games are with newbies like me without too much meta going on

>>50282020
Games in modern are decided on turns 3-4. Without someway to cheat mana to cast wurmcoil on those turns, the game is already decided before you could cast it.

Also Affinity refers to a synergistic artifact based aggro deck which abuses artifacts to power up cards like Cranial Plating and Arcbound Ravager. Wurmcoil, while a good card, does not fall into Affinity's gameplan.

Here's a rather colorful article that best explains what Affinity is.

>>50282092
The affinity deck runs very low to the ground so it can vomit its hand into play in the first couple of turns and apply a lot of pressure. Wurmcoil Engine only really sees play in the Tron decks of various types because it can easily assemble the mana to cast them and the U tron decks can even recur it

>>50282172
And, of course, I forgot to link the article.
http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/standard/8001_Ravager_Affinity_History_and_Evolution.html

Any decks that use Trading Post?

>>50282420
Bad ones

>>50282420
A 4-mana do-nothing spell is liable to get you killed. A 5-mana do-a-little-bit is also going to get you killed.

>>50282420
Maybe as bad tech for soul sisters

sun/moon is bullshit

Anyone try Blessed Alliance in Ad Nauseam? I feel like i'd be willing to drop a Skite for it and maybe a discard spell for another

>>50282420

Only deck that would use Trading Post is U/W and U Tron. It's honestly not a bad card because it's a second way of doing the Mindslaver lock

>>50282783

Why would you ever want Blessed Alliance in Ad Nauseam? What matchup would it improve? Murderous Cut is better to hit black creatures that your Slaughter Pact can't hit since more often than not you can kill something just for B

>>50282823
Infect, because the matchup already blows and ethereal haze never feels like enough

>>50282849

Thats actually a reasonable argument though Ethereal Haze works against so many other creatures outside of the attack step. Though that's not a bad idea actually.

>>50283001
I guess, but how many creatures are doing damage to you outside of the attack step? There's like, Grim Lavamancer.
Infect just sucks because they can just avoid going all out and slowly pick you down while you assemble your combo which makes haze pretty weak, I'd rather be able to take out their threat and and stem the bleeding than try to play roulette for a few turns

GW Tron is not objectively better than GR Tron right? It's just a meta call because of Infect/Dredge?

>>50283325
It's just a meta call, GR is probably better at dealing with a wider portion of the field though

>>50265911
>adventureson
Hey, I've played at that shop a bunch. I didn't know they used to sponsor lsv.

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mfw i played zombie hunt at fnm and made everyone mad as i perfect pulled on turn 4 every game

>>50283649
that deck is super consistent, if you're not making 10+ zombies on turn 4 you're doing something wrong
the problem is that you'll be dead before you can attack a lot of the time

>>50283673
you can back luck treasure hunt into another one after like 2 cards

every turn counts

>>50282643
desu I've gotten on the ban blood moon hype train, after playing blue moon and delver for a while. The games that you win off of blood moon feel like steals, and most decks can't actually play around it

>>50283043

Some decks like Grishoalbrand so you can prevent Boroborygmos, Enraged from burning you to the face and then you can just combo off afterwards the next turn. It's also still good against the aggressive wide decks like Affinity that might kill you through an Inkmoth+Cranial.

Personally I don't care much if Infect is plinking me down for only 1-2 poison damage a turn because that's them not playing a bunch of pump spells to finish you off fast which in turn gives you more time to assemble the mana to combo off. If they do pump up then you blank it with a fog effect. Plus they can always get around your Blessed Alliance by attacking with two dudes or even Noble Hierarch's alongside as well.

should I build B/W eldrazi processors? It looks like a fun deck and I'm only going to play at FNMs anyways. Plus how can you go wrong with Reality Smasher/TKS

>>50279646
If you have 5 creatures to sacrifice you're already winning. How do you expect to get to 5 mana in a dredge deck? By then you can be casting trolls for 15. You want to replace a spell that helps you win with a land that only helps you when you're winning.

>>50283701
That's a problem with the format and not blood moon. If you can't play around it its because you're playing a greedy deck that should get punished. Next time play merfolk or burn.

>>50284954
Except burn is 3 colors, like most decks in the format

>>50285006
Exactly. Let's ban blood moon so we can remove the colour pie and just play 4 & 5 colour decks

>>50285206
Except that wouldn't happen because people don't play around blind Blood Moons right now and 3 color decks are still popular

Are there any other fun youtube channels about MTG besides spellslingers?

>>50285368
Alpha Investments.
The guy's a lunatic.

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>>50285985
I have no idea if anything he says is remotely legit but holy fuck is it still entertaining

>>50285985
I love rudy, dont get why people dislike him

>>50286024
I don't fucking understand how he makes money. So you've literally filled a small room with Dark Ascension - bought an entire store's stock like a week ago (I just discovered this guy). How, and when the fuck are you going to cash out on that. Do you sell it? Do you know how much goddamn time it would take to package and ship all that?

He makes $10,000 a month from Patreon, that is pretty goddamn good.

The way I look at it is that he's making no fucking money off the Magic (when you take into account labor) and people are just paying him to watch him enjoy his hobby.

>>50287060
Open the boosters, sell the chase rares
That's why he talks about gambling and losses and holding onto stuff vs opening it, because the boxes might be worth more in the future but they also might have a shit ton of money in them. It's actually really fascinating

>>50268287
Norin

>>50287060
A part of me appreciates the honesty in what he is saying. Even if only 10% of what he says is true it's 10% we'll never hear from Wizards.

A part of me tempers his statements when he cites "everybody" when discussing the emotional reaction to things. I don't think "everybody" in Magic gets angry - his impression that people get pissed must be on a closed social media level (like his own Facebook page) because publicly it seems like the vast majority of social media sites have people jerking off Wizards or thirsty players celebrating every time Wizards spits into their cup because everyone is just shilling for the Community Cup invite.

I understand he speaks for those who are angry, the few. But it's hard for me to imagine Wizards gives a fuck about those people because year after year Wizards just keeps doing their dumb fucking thing repeatedly pissing those people off.

I guess it bothers me that someone like Rudy exists. I appreciate him but in the end it's a fucking game. And I can't believe the game is in such a state of terrible anti-consumer horseshit that a person like Rudy can exist and make a living.

I can't believe that there is actually something nefarious behind the high prices in this game. I could imagine rich art collector folks sitting around complaining about not being able to get a Monet. But Monet is dead and as far as I can tell we can print Magic ad nauseum. Magic could be the next Bridge or Poker but this company just wants the idiot collector bucks.

>>50287413
>I guess it bothers me that someone like Rudy exists. I appreciate him but in the end it's a fucking game. And I can't believe the game is in such a state of terrible anti-consumer horseshit that a person like Rudy can exist and make a living.
I mean it's not like he's a speculator
I don't think people like him really do anything to the singles secondary market

>>50268720
But dark blast kill the bird AND allow me to dredge on turn 2
Why is that a bad card ?

>>50287413
I'm sure whoever invent bridge or poker didn't make a lot of money though. Those games are ubiquitous because they are free.

>>50287461
Fine, then imagine Pokemon - the video game. It would be nice if Pokemon was as ubiquitous as either of those games in the public.

>>50287451
because we live in a meta where darkblast is a dead card too often to be valuable

>>50273205
WBRG or WURG, typically; some are 5C.

>>50287772
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/format-staples/modern/full/creatures
Dark blast hits around 20 of the top 50 creatures, depending on if you count stuff like bloodghast, delver, etc.
It hits roughly the same amount when you adjust for dominance as well.

Hareruya is the best place to find dank new ideas
>tfw seeing bring to light ad nauseam
>people running sylvan scrying in infect
>vengevine in regular dredge alongside gravecrawler
Thank god for the japanese

Screencap this post

Wasteland Strangler is sleeper OP. Prepare for the buyouts after this weekend.

>>50287981
>>Wasteland Strangler is sleeper OP.

The fuck?

>>50287981
>sleeper OP
nigga it's solid, hardly op
what strategy would you run that would make it somehow OP

>>50287981
Even if it was OP a buy out isn't scary. It's a rare from a recent set that was opened quite a lot. Compare to prized amalgam, which is 2 to 3 dollars. And to my knowledge BFZ was opened more than SoI.

>>50287981
Wasteland Strangler isn't OP

Its enablers Thought Knot Seer and Eldrazi Displacer are

>>50288070
don't forget the eldrazi sol lands. Stranger has devoid too.

>>50288070
That whole set was bullshit
I'm glad they finally ended the trend of "take an archetype that's pretty fringe and pump it full of retardedly high value cards that get even more powerful when used in a certain tribe"
I'm looking at you, spirits
>inb4 spirits aren't that good
Sure, but they represent a larger flaw in current design philosophy, chiefly wizards thinking that tribes are somehow allowed to have an absurd amount of value
I think Faeries did it right but it was slightly underpowered, which is a shame

>>50288122
faeries were pretty good in extended when it existed

>>50287981
Is this our new meme?
The Sphinx's Rev for 28 was getting pretty old

Been playing Caw-blade for shits and giggles
Infuriates a lot of people

>>50288368
All the best cawblade cards are banned though.

>>50288379
Sadly
Still not a terrible deck though, it's just UW control with some meme cards thrown in
Got some assmad BGx fag to quit though which was funny

bant eldrazi is rly boring right
will i regret buying in

>>50288122
>>50288148
all faeries need is a "Return to Lorwyn" set. Spirits only became good because of Spell Queller, Selfless Spirit and Rattlechains all getting printed

>>50268582

>birds of paradise decks would be everywhere

No they wouldn't. Even if bolt didn't exist you'd see Gutshot being played against these so called BoP decks that would take over. Not that i'm advocating for bolt to be removed it's just you're waaaaaaaay off point on the BoP issue.

>>50288400

It's just valuetown: the gathering

>>50288400
yes and depends on how much winning itself is fun to you

because you will win plenty with it

>>50287060
>>50287106
>>50287413
Reminder that Rudy was already way above the (currently nonexistent) American middle class before he started speculating on mtg, he could make losses on every new box he buys and still break even/stay rich because of all the old stuff he's sitting on.

>ancestral visions gets notion thiefed
WHO THE FUCK PLAYS THAT CARD

>>50288674
that guy apparently

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>>50288400
Eldrazi are still under developed. I would wold off on being Nobles though for a bit, reprint incoming

how come Kozilek, Butcher of Truth doesn't have a crown thing floating above/behind his head but Kozilek, Great Distortion does?

>>50268687
Sam Stoddard pls go.

>>50273205

as green as elves.

>>50276508

It looks like a shitty infect list.

>4 Kiln Fiend
forwhatreason.png

>>50283701
>>50284954
I don't think it's a format problem, it's a hoser problem and WotC's design has moved away from color hosing. If Modern is truly going to be Magic's 'eternal' format that WotC wants to push as the format you play if you want to play with old cards, I don't believe Blood Moon should be in the format.
If it's called Modern, the format should reflect modern design philosophy.

MaRo said that non-basics can't be better than basics because basics are a fundamental part of the game. Their drawback is that they ETB tapped or you take damage for getting an addition effect, more than one color or both. I know there are other lands with other drawbacks, ETB tapped and damage are the most common
The downside to non-basics shouldn't be they tap for R.

>>50284909
My thought was against decks where you play as the control. I'm ready to accept that it's wrong but we don't get to better decks by playing the same stock lists over and over. Once we've proven that Abbey is worse, yeah, it's worse but I'm still going to test it. I can see it being bad a lot of the time but it could be one of those things that just works.

>>50287967
link to vengevinecrawler list?
Maybe not a bad idea.
>Loam
>Land
>Bloodghast
>Amalgam
>Gravecrawler + Loam
>Vengevine

>>50288379
>>50288368
I'll bite
Squadron Hawk, swords and Batterskull are legal ;)

There's no judge thread

If I Snapcaster Mage something like Murderous Cut, can I use Delve to make it cheaper?

Does Kicker modify the CMC of the spell on the stack?

If I flashback conflagrate discarding thee cards, meaning x=3, is the CMC 7? or 1? or 4? I could see either 1 or 7 being the answer. 4 doesn't make sense because it's XXR.

>>50290371
Yes
No
7 CMC

>>50290256
Blood moon is a necessary evil in formats with fetch shock manabases. Otherwise the best decks end up being 4-5 color goodstuff/aggro. In legacy the main card that keeps it in check is wasteland, but in modern we have burn and blood moon to keep things from warping too hard. Again, no one is forcing you to play a deck that loses to blood moon and there isn't any evidence that blood moon decks are significantly warping the format. Like Jund and Bant Eldrazi are both tier 1 and get stomped by that card.

For the westvale abbey thing, the thing is you really don't need to test it. I had the same conversation with this one guy about smuggler's copter in affinity (spoiler, the guy doesn't play affinity). I gave him a bunch of reasons about why its bad, like it failing the bolt test, no creatures to crew it except memnite, every other two drop in the deck outperforms it by miles etc. But he kept saying I needed to test it. But why would I waste magic time to find the answer to something I already know from using my noodle? It's the same thing.

>>50291791
What's wrong with 4-5 color goodstuff/aggro?

strictly talking for the health of the format, would you be okay with replacing blood moon with wasteland?

>>50285206
How about we ban decks with more then 3 colors instead?

>>50291791
Not the same anon but sometimes cards can surprise you. My friend plays affinity but went a bit budget and forgot a few critters. He added a couple cheap equipments that synergize with artifacts and it's already leagues better. Who knows. Copter could be a cheap alternative in some way. Not that I play the deck to know.

Westvale doesn't work modern because of the cost of it and how much removal there is. There's no way to flip it and protect it but some players just need to see it for themselves.

Don't give em such a hard time for actually trying to play test as it will at least improve their deck building skills and increase there general understanding on how x deck works.

Different colours should be able to work with each other. Blood moon is not broken but the fact that it's red is kinda rude. (Not that it deserves to be any other colour) mono red burn decks can just jam it in and win through literally 0 skill or interaction. Players who play 2 or more colours should really be fetching a basic if they see there opponent is playing red or at least keep a fetch ready and waiting. The fact that blood moon exists and is played really limits the decks were gonna be able to build in modern and will only help to make the format stagnant and boring.

>>50292375
How about we can decks with just one colour. There fixed. Blood moon can cripple it's user just as hard as it's opponent.

>>50292408
>The fact that blood moon exists and is played really limits the decks were gonna be able to build in modern
Like what? What can we not build because this one enchantment exists? 5c good stuff?

If we go by your zero skill complaint we should ban all hosers like rip, stony silence and hell why not even pyroclasm? Limits weenie decks right?

>>50290256
>I don't think it's a format problem, it's a hoser problem and WotC's design has moved away from color hosing.
Blood Moon is not a color hoser. It does not hose mountains, swamps, plains, islands, nor forests. It hoses lame goodstuff decks that run 4 colors like it's nobodies business.

>Their drawback is that they ETB tapped or you take damage for getting an addition effect
The drawback is so tiny compared to what they provide that it might as well not exist.

>>50291791
>Again, no one is forcing you to play a deck that loses to blood moon and there isn't any evidence that blood moon decks are significantly warping the format.
Amen.

>>50292359
>What's wrong with 4-5 color goodstuff/aggro?
It negates the whole point in having colors in the first place.

>>50292408
>The fact that blood moon exists and is played really limits the decks were gonna be able to build in modern and will only help to make the format stagnant and boring.
No it doesn't. Everyone running 4-5 color goodstuff is what makes the format boring.

Sell me on fish. I already have vials

>>50293874

>Sell me on fish. I already have vials

That's your selling point.

>>50294102
To be fair the fish themselves are around 300 beaver bucks

>>50294125

>beaver bucks

I feel your pain anon, I'm playing with Canada funbucks myself and I can't bring myself to buy into lilis

Stupid question: When creatures are powered up via effects or counters, do I place a D6 with their total power/toughness on them or just what the bonus is?

>>50294143
Pumps, enchantments, or Prowess procs can all be counted by the card causing the effect. Dice are not needed for these.
Other effects that buff creatures are generally done symmetrically, as in the case of +1/+1 counters or passives like "elves you control get +1/+1"
So the d6 only needs to measure how many +1/+1s are on the creature.

>>50294307
So no D6 needed for stuff like Kird Ape?

>>50294321
As long as you're not hiding your lands beneath your arms, if your opponent sees a forest they'll know it's a 2/3

Why do people ITT defend Blood Moon? Do they hate playing fun decks? Are they afraid that if they allow their opponent to play the game that they might lose? Is it just retarded 4chan contrarianism?

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>>50294657

>>50294704
The last one then, got it

>>50294657
Its divisiveness is only made worse by the fact that big name players hate it too

>>50294728
So naturally the scrubs on 4chan know better than the people who play the game for a living.

>>50294657
Why are you okay with rip and stony silence? Don't you want your opponent to play?

>>50294915
I should have added that *some* hate it, which makes the battle worse

>>50294657
Why do people ITT defend Tron lands? Do they hate playing fun and challenging decks?

>>50294931
Decks don't need artifacts or graveyards to function

>>50294657
Why do people ITT defend Lightning Bolt?

>>50295074
Decks don't need nonbasic lands to function

>>50295114
artifacts and graveyards don't make up the base resource system of the game, lands do

>>50295074
So you don't actually play modern. Gotcha.

Well you see many decks utilize the graveyard. In fact some can't play without theirs.
Affinity is a deck.

Not everyone wants to play midrange

>>50295074

Decks with the best plan < decks that rely on hate < decks with a different plan < decks with the best plan

It just so happens that the plan that blood moon hates is running nonbasics, and the answer to that plan is playing like one color. Which is fucking problematic in modern. If you want to play monocolor in modern, you're relying on blood moon to police the rest of the format unless you want to play red. And blood moon doesn't even fully police the format because of fetches being able to hit basics in response and abrupt decay, it's just powerful enough to be regularly frustrating.

>>50294657

Because I play Elves and I laugh at Turn 1 Blood Moon as I drop a Forest and play an Elf. And if a deck casts a Turn 3 Blood Moon naturally, they're probably going to take like 12+ damage to the face the next turn

>>50295157
>answer to that plan is playing like one color.
Fuck off. RUG delver plays blood moon and that deck has a tight as fuck mana base

>>50295224
It also has a low curve and low colored mana costs

>>50295085
Because believe it or not, not everyone in the modern thread is a blatant shitposter

>>50294657
I play infect and i have never losed to blood moon.
Git gud

>>50295085
Friendly reminder that Bolt is the gatekeeper against all but the best planeswalkers.

That alone makes it worth keeping.

>>50294657
Because Blood Moon doesn't keep any decks out of the format. Decks like Jund and Esper are already stretched thin enough. There just aren't any good reasons to play 4 or 5 colors to begin with.

To boot, as long as Esper or Jund can answer the Blood Moon before it hits- Thoughtseize/Inqisition of Kozilek/Mana Leak/etc its ineffective. Blood Moon isn't some end-all answer to these decks to begin with.

>>50294657
Why do people who don't know how to play around blood moon still whine about it? Are they simply too retarded to fetch basics? Or maybe they're too dumb to play interaction like discard or counterspells?

>>50295670
Esper? Who plays Esper in modern? When was the last top?

Why aren't Grixis control not delver running Kalitas? Is it only because it's 4 mana?

Include Inquisitions of Kozilek/Thoughtseize in Grixis control, or no?

>>50295224

>And blood moon doesn't even fully police the format because of fetches

Was included in the post, so fuck right off. Delver plays very few lands (17 in the list I see here), doesn't have blood moon, and more than half of those lands (10/17) are fetches. 4 are basics, 3 are shocks.

>>50295813
If you're talking about the Grixis control list from the last GP, thats a really tight list you shouldn't fuck with that much. The deck works because all of its cards are guaranteed to trade at least 1 for 1 and help you not die, then your vision comes off suspend and you win. Cards like remand, mana leak, and inquisition/thoughtseize don't fit in this plan because they don't trade 1 for 1 cleanly, either they leave you at a mana disadvantage or become useless in the late game. Like you don't want to draw a bunch of useless mana leaks and inquisitions off of visions, you just ruined your own win condition. Plus, discard would compete with vision for your optimal turn 1 play which is bad. It could maybe play kalitas, but honestly it doesn't need it because most of the time you're gonna win with snapcaster beats after your opponent is in topdeck mode. Its a win more, you never want to tap out for it on turn 4 anyway because you need to represent cryptic. Deck is super solid though, pretty sure its the best control deck in modern right now.

>>50271007
>Also Oxford Commas are for pretentious twats
Philistine.