Is revenge lawful or chaotic?

>>50265180
Depends. Are you doing it for selfless or personal reasons? Do you really have the right for revenge?

>>50265180
Chaotic. It's usually unlawful to engage in vigilantism.

The one exception is if you're bringing someone to justice who had escaped it, while being personally motivated in doing so, thus being motivated by revenge.

>>50265180
Depends. Does the laws allow it? Is it part of the character's moral code? Is it proportionate and deserved?

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>>50265228
Vigilantism and revenge aren't really the same thing though. Revenge doesn't have to be illegal or legitimate, for starter.

>>50265199
Do any who are wronged NOT have the right for revenge? The guilty facing punishment for their crimes is the basis of law

>>50265228
Who can determine if justice has been rendered? If you think murderers should die, and a murderer is imprisoned, is it lawful to kill him in prison and exact the "proper" judgement?

>>50265229
>>50265297
Who can truly determine if revenge is deserved/legitimate?

>>50265180
Revenge can be either. Revenge is simply the drive to best someone who has bested you. It's human nature, so it's neutral. How you carry out said revenge determines what alignment the act itself is.

If you beat the offending party to within an inch of their life, then turn them over to the authorities, it can be Lawful. It can also be Lawful if your own personal code or the law of the land dictate you may kill the offending party. It's Chaotic if you break the law to kill the offending party.

>>50265309
>Do any who are wronged NOT have the right for revenge? The guilty facing punishment for their crimes is the basis of law
Satisfaction in the face of injury is the basis of law, yes. You are correct. In its purest form, at least. But that's a whole other debate for another board.

>Who can determine if justice has been rendered? If you think murderers should die, and a murderer is imprisoned, is it lawful to kill him in prison and exact the "proper" judgement?
It can be, if it's the player's personal code. This falls pretty heavily into vigilantism. Also, if there is no extradition, an assassin can be sent by one country into another to exact justice on those imprisoned in places with more merciful laws.

>Who can truly determine if revenge is deserved/legitimate?
The injured are the final arbiters, but that's why Lawful characters are still Lawful when they follow a personal code and not the actual law. People who believe in the law of the land give up their right to arbitrate their own justice, so they agree that whatever the government dictates is the proper punishment is just.

>>50265309
The settings' definition of "lawful" and "chaotic" does.

In D&D, revenge will simply take different form depending on the character. A Lawful Evil character will make very legal and very painful, for a very petty offense. A Chaotic Good character won't bother with the law but will take care in making the punishment appropriate.

In Warhammer RPG, the difference between Lawful and Chaotic is that the first will torture then murder you for offending him while the second will murder then torture you for offending him.

>>50265180
Revenge is chaotic, Justice is lawful.

>>50265229
>Does the laws allow it
What if the law was permitted by a chaotic race?

>>50265417
You can seek revenge through just means. If your neighbor IRL sells drugs, and is a terrible neighbor, you can seek revenge on him for poisoning your cat by calling down a raid on his house, for example. Thus, seeking revenge. You are lawful in doing so because you are using the law to do it. Chaotic people would just kill the guy's dog in response, starting some crazy back and forth Hammurabi-grade shit.

By Gygax at least an eye for an eye is entirely lawful.

>>50265309
>Who can truly determine if revenge is deserved/legitimate?
The law.

>>50265180
Revenge is chaotic. However, JUSTICE is lawful

>>50265229
This. So much of this. Like so much in life, it's the details that matter.

>>50265417
>>50265876
And what is Just Vengeance?
Furthermore, can it be said that all vengeance is justice, or that vengeance is never justice?

>>50265180
Lawfull. Consider it like an oath also it needs straight dedication.

>>50265180
Avenging is lawful. Revenge is more chaotic.

The former involves retribution for misdeeds, upholding the honor of those wronged, and punishing those who transgress against them.

The latter is more about going out of your way to get satisfaction for some slight, to the point that you might even be willing to get others hurt.

>>50267118
>latter is more about going out of your way to get satisfaction for some slight, to the point that you might even be willing to get others hurt
Wouldn't that make it Evil, not Chaotic?

like >>50265335 said.
Revenge is a neutral (or possibly evil) act. It has no bearing on the order-chaos scale.

>>50267141
Kind of. It's less about maliciousness (evil) and more carelessness (chaotic). In revenge, you may turn to evil methods *as well* to get what you want, but it's more likely that your drive for revenge will make you ignore laws and just not think about the well-being of others, getting them hurt by accident or inaction.

>>50265180
Revenge is chaotic. Justice is lawful.

If someone murders your brother, it would be right and just to have that man killed - you could even do it and be within the right.

If you succeeded, and their brother tried to kill you, they would be acting outside of justice. This would be revenge, and an act of chaos.

>>50265180
Its fun. End thread

>>50265180
"when you take the road of revenge, dig your own grave first"
Definetly not good