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failure

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Have you seen a group fall apart so badly that it ruined the whole game?

What was your own worst failure?
>>
>>50250681
Yes. I had a good game for 1 year. Then one guy had to drop out for family reasons. The new guy I recruited was so instantly hated by everyone else that they all dropped out within 2 sessions. We eventually reconstituted the group without That Guy after a 6 month hiatus.
>>
>>50250681

>pink candles
>>
>>50250681
>Run awesome cyberpunk game
>introduce friend of group
>he so voraciously offends my wife that it spills into group, everyone super pissed with him
>he leaves in a huff
>groups just loses the will to fucking live
>>
>>50251412
>offends my wife that it spills into group, everyone super pissed with him and loses the will to live
I want to know the ma
>>
>>50251412
>>he so voraciously offends my wife
Details.
>>
>>50251446
Magic words, god damn it
>>
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>>50251412
Tell her to bring actual snacks to the table, instead of this cereal bullshit.
>>
>>50251282
Jeremy?
>>
>>50251456
>>50251446
>"Hey man, dont swear at the table; we've got a kid now who parrots like you wouldnt believe."
>"Oh sure anon! not a problem"
>Casually swears, gets asked not to
>casually swears, gets reminded again to cut that out
>Gets reminded again in front of wife, who chimes in with a good burn
>stewing mad the rest of the session, sends a group text later about getting "bitched out" and about how "he doesnt need that shit in his life so hes out"
>Forgets wife is IN group chat (for scheduling around gametime)
>I tell him, fine, leave if you must but apologize to the wife
>he doesnt understand why he needs to apologize
>mutual friends all sick of his shit by now, all advise him to apologise before he digs a trench ten feet deep
>he still cant fathom why hed need to paologise to my wife
>we spell it out for him in block letters
>"OOOOOOOOOH kay SORRY YOU GOT OFFENDED"
>FFS
>>
>>50250681
>In highschool, one of my group wants to DM so I let him, runs a D&D that leads to "Planescape" story
>Game is overall good, solid dungeon and interesting battles
>Near end of dungeon we clear it and then solve a riddle that transports us to a fantastical city in planes far away.
>Game starts to devlove quickly, some reason he's projecting into the game now. Everywhere we turn demi-gods are literally just dicking on us and using retarded magic to dimension door us away when we try and talk to someone.
>Start getting bored and making table jokes
>Suddenly decides to go all Tyrant DM. Some 'peasant' deity-spawn runs and just says "Beware the Lady is the most powerful in the world! Say anything bad she'll strip your flesh and throw you back in the street"
>I say "Oh at least she's polite and puts you back where she found you."
>Some magical woman appears and kills me
>He's looking at me like 'I totally beat you'
>Just sigh and start looking in MM for characters to be
>He starts dicking on all the PC's
>Reroll, get into the game again. The magical woman has just killed another Party Member. Turns to the group and says "I'll take your bones next!"
>Can't fight the innuendo.
>Die again.
>Eventually I just thank him with 'Yeah mate I've had enough now. Bye' and just walk out.
>Three others join us.
>Just him and the guys whose hosting us left
>Get a text 5 minutes later saying "Come back I'll let you play anything you want."
>Never game with him again.

Last I heard he went to uni and then returned home to be a total creep. He got done for meeting some teenager in the infamous 'underage slappers go here' nightclub and tried to strangle her with shoelaces. I'm not even kidding.
>>
>>50251744
That's it? Wow, you guys really need some thicker skin.
>>
>>50251798
When your kid starts swearing up a storm it looks really bad on you.
>>
>>50251798
>stop swearing in front of our kid
>ok
>swears anyways
>stop
>ok
>swears anyways
>stop
>ok
>swears anyways
>stop you fucking faggot
>reeeeeeee I don't understand why you're being mean your wife is being a bitch
>Because we keep telling you to stop being a faggot but you won't
>I don't need to take this shit reeeee this is your problem not mine

Pretty easy to understand the group's displeasure.
>>
>>50251874
>>50251876
I get that part. But becoming super pissed and losing the will to live? That's just as moronic as the guy who disrespects the host, even more maybe.
>>
>>50251922
it's called hyperbole
>>
>>50251956
It's called being limp-wristed melodramatic bitches.
Fucking sheltered millenials.
>>
>>50252042
You must get invited to all the interesting parties. Don't you?
>>
>>50251876

>in front of our kid

This is why my group has a strict no hangers-on policy. No waifus, gfs, bfs, parents, preachers, parole officers... If they aren't playing the game, they don't need to be there.

It makes for a much less drama-filled and more productive session.
>>
>>50252092
Well, I used to when I was younger, did lots of booze, weed, tried lsd once.
Now I enjoy dinner parties better. I still have appearances to keep, but I have laid low on the wild parties. I'm in the city council now, and a grownup.
>>
>>50252135
Oh gods, to be you, with the liberty of a private space to game
You blessed blessed man

>>50252198
>the joke
>your head
The autism is strong with this one
>>
>>50250681
>Have you seen a group fall apart so badly that it ruined the whole game?
>What was your own worst failure?

Once, I ran a game online for two randoms I met up on the Internet for about three months or so. We had a regular schedule and we had, like, more than 20 4-5 hour sessions in that timespan. It was great fun for everyone involved, and we honestly had a lot of good fun.
One day, I failed to login, because I didn't feel like running the game. I've never logged in since. It has been over two years since then. I didn't run a single game ever since.
>>
>>50252220
It's not autism, it's jewery, politics, and arguing semantics.
>>
>>50252042
Are you literally retarded?
>>
>>50252337
see
>>50252319
yes. he is likely
>>
>>50251744
Sounds like you're a bunch of fags honestly, including your wife.
>>
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>>50250681
>organise game for newbies in DH
>get a group of 4, seem like solid dudes
>they play like they're attempting to fail the investigation
>one of them never bothers to learn what to roll
>another is a rules-lawyer that halted the game regularly even when told not to constantly
>every piece of advice I give them gets shut down because "you're a cruel GM"\
>start developing hatred for all of them
>feeling miserable every time the day we played arrived
>give up one day and ditch the group without notice

I feel like some bridges need to be burned down to a coal. I miss none of them and am not sorry.
>>
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>>50252042
>>50251922
>>50251798
>>
>>50250681
that's how campaigns usually end actually.

otherwise they keep going.
>>
>>50252337
No, I am literally a genius. I have an IQ of 148.
>>
>>50252362
>every piece of advice I give them gets shut down because "you're a cruel GM"
>>
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>>50252387
>>
Our last session ended in an attempted murder which was eventually pled down to assault.
>>
>>50252387
>muh 9gorillion IQ
>that means I'm really smart guise I'm definitely not lying and autistic
Simply eric
>>
>>50251744
Your wife is gay for dick
>>
>>50252405
Story time!
>>
>>50252387
According to what?
>>
>>50250681
Oh my GOD. We had some fucking asshole join who ruined the entire game with his OOC bitching.
>>
>>50252198
>I'm in the city council now, and a grownup.
As a fellow grownup who covers city council meetings, there's nothing impressive about this.
>>
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>>50252423
>>
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>>50252387
Fine, then tell me what's his name
>>
>>50252417
I'm not on the spectrum. My school had me tested.
>>
>>50252446
https://youtu.be/In9oSjjltOs
>>
>>50252405
Storytime it you double felon!
>>
>>50252446
I know, but shit, I never would get anything done if I were a limp-wristed faggot like the guy who started this whole mess.
>>50252438
The Stanford-Binet meme test, unfortunately. But that was ages ago.
>>50252453
Don't know, don't care
>>
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>>50252387
Sure you do, bud.
I tested 140 IQ when I was 14 on an online test I took out of curiosity, does that make me genius too?
>>
>>50252461
Schools do not test for autism.
>>
>>50252505
Unless you get tested by a professional it doesn't mean anything, and even then it means fuck-all.
>>
>>50252509
But they can "ask politely" if you are hyperviolent and weird and other kids' parents are threatening with lawsuits against the school
>>
>guys I got tested I'm not autistic
>but I'm going to continue to not understand social cues and dynamics at all, to a robotic degree
>but I'm not autistic!
>>
>>50250681
I had a group where half the party acted like they were to cool to be playing a tabletop game while the other half was to passive to get the game moving.
>>
>>50252425

An argument started over who owed what for the pizza guy's tip and two of the guys just lost their fucking minds and started bringing up basically every wrong either had ever committed before circling back to some girl they were fighting over(which I presume was the real cause all along). Things got physical and since one of them was 6'5 and ripped as fuck and the other most certainly wasn't any of those things, it ended with a pretty savage chair-beating.
>>
>>50252546
Is adult onset autism a thing? If so, I will set up a gofundme and you guys will give me a thousand bucks so I can afford a real nice test. Maybe I am autistic, but I don't have the money or the time to get tested again.
>>
>>50252453
>what's his name

Jesus, I've been on /pol/ too much since Tuesday, I can't read this combination of words anymore without laughing.
>>
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>>50252622
>yep
>autism
>>
>>50251747
>'underage slappers go here' nightclub

These...these aren't just urban legends?
>>
>>50252678
>Mike "LGBBQ" Pence
>>
One of my groups just fell apart because the GM refused to run a game for Trump supporters after Trump won. He was so damned butthurt he couldn't bear to be in our presence.
>>
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>>50252387
I've seen some shitposters in my life, but this? This definitely takes the cake.
>>
>>50250681
My mere presence torpedoed a game once. My then-girlfriend had been RPing with a group at her college for awhile, all of the other players were none-too-subtly crushing on her, one guy got gropey and my girlfriend invited me to start attending games with her.

Long story short one of the other players tried to hit her and got arrested, I was out of practice with D&D and didn't fit in well with the rest of the party, another guy got pissed at me and told the DM either I left or he did, DM told me to stop coming, girlfriend quit the group in protest, another guy quit the group, entire campaign fell apart and group never got back together before girlfriend graduated and we moved out of state.

Still feel bad about it, my now-wife hasn't played a tabletop RPG since.
>>
>>50252453
Benedict Cumberbatch?

>>50252678
What's the /pol/ meme behind this guy?
>>
>>50252782
Glad you like it, George. Did you see how many (me)s I've gotten itt?
>>
>>50252579
>Too cool to play tabletop games
Fucking, the worst.

>Too passive to get the game going
Just kidding, these guys are literally double niggers. NOTHING is worse than a bunch of awkward teenagers sitting around not doing anything because they don't want to draw attention to themselves. WOULD INDIANA JONES TWIDDLE HIS FUCKING THUMBS AND MUMBLE "UMMMMM" ALL DAY, YOU USELESS ASS HATS? REEEEEEEEEEEE
>>
>>50252608
Manlets. When will they learn?
>>
>>50252446
Seconding this.
City councilmen are self important whiny and socially impotent.

If they had true charisma or power they would be real politicians.
>>
>>50252387
can somebody screencap this one?
>>
>>50252453
Not knowing some random cunt dosnt make someone retarded. if you know who Stan Nichols is i won't be Flabbergasted by your "brilliance"

>Oh god! He knew a dudes name! He must be he chosen one.
>>
>>50253056
Getting mad instead of just GISing the image points towards you being autistic, though.
>>
>>50253056
>>Oh god! He knew a dudes name! He must be a truenamer
ftfy
>>
>>50253080
He's not me, though.
>>
>>50252779
Can't blame him. I wouldn't want to run a game for a bunch of inbred rednecks either.
>>
>>50253244
kys and go back to >>>/tumblr/
>>
>>50252608
Short Man's Syndrome.

Manlets are always trying to start shit.
They deserve every beat down that they get.
>>
>>50252703
No.

It's called Strand 58.

Don't even know if it's there anymore. Every 16 year old tries to get in dressed up like a douche.
>>
>>50252779
Politics and games should never mix, I remember I tried to join a group back in 2012 and the DM wanted to know who I was planning on voting for before he'd let me join, decided to just back out
>>
>>50253376

An ass kicking, maybe. Getting smashed flat with a chair? Nah, that was way beyond acceptable.
>>
>>50250681
I will never play WoD after my experience with it. I liked it for a long time, but now it's poison.

>Run WoD (mostly mage) off and on for the better part of a decade.
>Start up new campaign.
>Old guard players are mostly too busy with kids or work to play
>Okay, time to get new blood to fill the gaps.
>3 new players 2 old.
>New players bitch every time things don't go their way.
>Blame me for their dice.
>They eventually drive off one of the older players.
>Fill the spot with a random.
>The're worse than the others.
>"That's not the way it happens in (Supernatural, True Blood, ect.)"
>"That's not how (trendy nerd celebrity) plays rpgs."
>Can't build tension or horror because new players get mad if I don't tell them what is happening ahead of time.
>Finally call the game off after months of trying to sculpt the new kids into good players (other old guard already left)
>"Okay anon we'll just run our own game"
>"Sounds like a good idea" maybe then they'll understand how much their behavior sucks from my side of the table.
>"Cool! When can I come over and pick up the books then?"
>wat
>"You're not playing right, so you don't need them. We are playing, so we should have the books so we can play"
>"No"

I just hung up on them, and wrote off the place we had been playing as unusable for 6 months. I know that WoD players aren't the most amicable group, but I've taken plenty rough/new players through learning how to play. I've played with a random wearing fake fangs who asked we call him by his character name out of game. I've played with a literal autist who barely spoke above a whisper, and never in 6 months looked me in the eyes. I would take all of my former 'worst' players over the group I just played with.

I've talked with a friend who also runs WoD about it, and she had the same problems start up a few years ago. She tried to start an all new player game of D&D, and even that was just a nightmare.

What the fuck is with the new blood now?
>>
>>50252387
OH BOY HERE IT COMES
>>
>>50252678
I don't get it. Please explain for clueless newfag.
>>
>>50253580
> Trying to steal your books.
Every thread I'm reminded my worse players are small fry.

As for the new blood, I've had problems with folk playing it like a video game and just not roleplaying.
>>
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>>50250681
My brother had some people from his work that wanted to play D&D 5e so I said I would DM them. There were four players, all new.

One guy was this fat babyfaced dweeb who spoke a mile a minute and was super excited. Whatever, that's fine.

I decide to just do a premade because everyone is pretty new to the rules and RPGs in general, so we start to introduce the characters in an inn. Most players are just brooding/dark/misunderstood whatevers, but babyface is a Dragonborn with Red Dragon lineage and completely min/maxed to be a pure Charsima/Persuasion/Intimidation build. I started them out at level 5. I didn't really care about balance or long-term planning because this was supposed to just be an introduction game to the rules.

Babyface went first.

The FIRST thing he said: "I want to seduce the bartender." The FIRST fucking thing. I said, uh, ok, roll persuasion. FUCKING NATURAL 20. I sighed and had the bartender come back over to the table and start talking with him. Cue 5 minutes of super awkward conversation and then he went upstairs with her. I said "Ok you both go into one of the rooms." I tried to switch the action back to the other players, but the dude kept asking, "What happens next?" It was insane. I said, "Well, you bang the shit out of her with your nasty dragon dick, right?" and he started roaring with laughter. Like, he's beet red and laughing hysterically to the point where he can't breathe. No one else is laughing. I'm starting to think this kid has mental issues. After this he got the group to go from building to building, trying to bang every woman in sight. When the group members protested, he would intimidate/persuade them and win the rolls.The other players were pissed. And he horribly, awkwardly tried to get me to roleplay the seduction out with him.

First and last game I DM'ed for them.
>>
>>50253645

"whats his name?" is just a /pol/ meme. Some one posts a picture along with the question and people reply with the answer but toss in pithy aliases/honorifics.

Paul "give 'em the maul" Manafort
Hillary "burn em in bengazi" Clinton
Milo "our faggot" Yandalonanopus
Mike "LGBTBBQ" Pence

etc etc.
>>
>>50253580
Honestly, it's a general WoD problem. I can't even be considered old guard, but the amount of self-entitled assholes and morons that flock to any WoD game is astounding

>play VtM
>everyone talks to each other like they owe money to them
>ST uses GM fiat to engage into casual cruelty against PCs for no reason
>allows some 14 y.o. who thinks is funny to make a literal Fishmalk
>suddenly it's Call of Cthulhu with vampires
>game dies then and there

>play VtR
>ST becomes really invasive on character progression
>gets incredibly mad at players for "rollplaying" when he doesn't know what one of the Flaws does
>game falls apart after he kicks a guy for calling his (forced) Sire a failure

>run VtR
>gets his ass handed to him when he tries to solo a hospital ward's worth of orderlies with no combat skills
>ragequits
>get more players for the game
>they are all awkward dumbasses that can't seem to get the whole "talking" thing down
>start flaking at day 2
>call the game off
>>
>>50253645
>>50252819

It's something I first saw on /v/. OP would post a picture of the character Kazuhira Miller from Metal Gear and ask "What's his name again?"

People would then give him racially inflammatory nicknames.

Kaz "Fulton a coon and I'll shoot the balloon" Miller
Kazuhira "Empty my 9 on the Welfare Line" Miller
Kaz "Only one race on Mother Base" Miller

etc., etc., etc.

It's recently started coming back again on /pol/, but with members of the incoming Trump administration, mostly Mike Pence. But Bunnydunk Cumdumpster isn't immune to it, on account to his quirky name.
>>
>>50253580
>I've played with a literal autist who barely spoke above a whisper, and never in 6 months looked me in the eyes.
i mean i bet that's irritating but it's one of the least offensive things an autistic person could have done
>>
>>50250681
>Run Rogue Trader for three people
>First session is pretty good
>Second session is extremely well-received
>Third session, Rogue Trader's player doesn't come online
>Tell RT's player to cancel in advance if he can't come
>"Lol it's an online game, not showing up is normal"
>Doesn't show up the week after either
>Almost a week later, he explains he has something planned each friday and doesn't have time that day, which he already knew for three weeks
>Group can't find a day to play and falls apart
>>
>>50253735
I think the joke when asking about Cumberbatch's name is that it is pretty unusual and you're supposed to reply with a mispelling of his name.

Like, Bendadick Cuminmysnatch.
>>
>>50253728
>When the group members protested, he would intimidate/persuade them and win the rolls
faggot detected
>>
>DM's Edgelord friend makes nasty "joke" about our resident player + host's disabled wife (terrible leg limp) while in LGS
>In true Hollywood style, Guy has arrived and overhears, just turns on his heel and walks away
>deletes us all from facebook and leaves lgs groups, never see him again, such a nice guy too
>Me and a couple of others demand Edgelord is permabanned, he isn't
>We leave group, visit LGS once in a blue moon now

Thanks Coldsteel you fucking cunt
>>
>>50254116
>>"Lol it's an online game, not showing up is normal"
The fact that you didn't kick him then and there baffles me.
>>
>>50254255
To be fair, I thought he was joking at first. I only learnt some time later that he sincerely believed what he said.
>>
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I had just started an eberron game via irc, and 2 of the players were in a long distance relationship. Shortly into the relationship the girl dumped the guy and started 'dating' one of the other players. The kerfluffle caused the 3 players to all drop out which almost killed the game. Thankfully I was able to salvage the situation by bringing in a few friends for fresh blood, and the campaign continued for another 2 or so yeas before we finished it.
>>
I was GMing a two-timelines campaign about timetraveling to prevent a phyrexian-like apocalypse in a spanish inquisition western world, and i had a group of players for each timeline.

I had an edgy pyromaniac, a paranoid gunslinger, a randumb gunslinger making overly complex plans, a onedimensional warrior bitch, and an opportunist scholar.

I was expecting two guys in particular, one per timeline (bitch and pyromaniac), to be the weak link of the chain.
I was trying my best to keep stuff understandable but still mysterious for everyone. I didn't want them to get bored when they didn't get all the connections between timelines, or for them not to understand clues for more plotlines to come.

I was wrong. The obnoxious or edgy players weren't the ones who derailed the story and burned it to the ground. They simply followed the events as they unfolded as they had found interest in a coherent partecipation.

The paranoid guy instead went control-freak and needed to take account of everything, build infrastructures, organize a stable economy plan for the group, start an industry of anachronistic special weaponry to stockpile weapons and money to bribe and rebuild the world, and plan out every possible action before actually making a single move.

Realize that I didn't ban any of his options, and let him do as he pleased, believing he'd finally feel safe enough to actually start adventuring again and going on with the plotlines. He was my friend and I had RPed a lot with him and some of the others, which cared for the story at this point. I believed this line of action would have interesting repercussions and never really plotted too much ahead, except for some important, unavoidable plot points. I was always improvisational and it was fun for everyone, or so I believed.
Then one day the paranoid guy told us outta nowhere he couldn't play anymore. I rescheduled for next week, but he decided to let me know 'he couldn't handle the rpg pressure anymore'.

Cont.
>>
>>50253824
It goes back a bit farther than that, from the days of Ben "The One Man Klan" Garrison.
>>
>>50254321
>let me know 'he couldn't handle the rpg pressure anymore'.
dodged a bullet there. Hope you dont play with him anymore
>>
>>50252779
Must be neat to game with the CEO of Grubhub.
>>
>>50254348
Let's not forget the golden days of Dan "Inside Her" Schneider
>>
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>>50254288
Smug
>>
>>50254321
C'mon anon, don't leave us hanging for a part 2
>>
>>50254321
>not greentexting
>not typing it up beforehand
How new ru?
>>
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>>50254634
The best kind of smug
>>
>>50254670
Hinoka made a better spear fighter desu
>>
>>50253728
Fucking grow a pair and tell him you have a problem, faggot
>>
>>50250681
My worst failure as a DM was in my most recent game. I ran a system I didn't know well but always wanted to run. All the players were experts in the system. I set the game in a city that, as it turns out, tow of the players lived in but I had never been to. I wanted to run a low power game in a high power system, the players convinced me to run a higher power game. After running the game and getting to know the players, they were all successful professionals, while I was and currently am not. Two of the players were wonderful, but the game stopped when one player pissed me off so much I stopped the session and delayed the next week. I told them I couldn't keep running the game as my schedule changed, and it did, but I also don't want to run with half those people anymore. That was nearly 2 years ago. Last I heard, they were all doing well and running games together.
>>
>>50254321
I asked him what he meant with that and he explained that he was feeling too 'involved in the plot'. He was keeping a notebook with all equipment, a log of his character's notes for each important day in-game, and an actual diary.
I was surprised by this level of involvement, even flattered, but in a way freaked out. he was the reasonable guy in the group, he was supposed to just act as a paranoid guy.
This level of care for details was a bit exaggerated for him. No one ever asked him to do anything beyond what the others did, but the social interactions in-game, the diplomacy between the groups in the different timelines had, in his words, 'an effect on him'. He said he was feeling too 'emotional' and 'pumped up' for his own sake.

I was sad for this stupid, weird turn of events. Everyone was having fun and feeling involved to a level they felt adequate, and the one leaving was feeling bad for that exact same reason, despite not being forced in any way towards that way.
The game died without him as the others felt a sudden disappearence or any other way would be forced and pointless. We tried to ask him to come back but he always refused.

I got really fucking angry when, several months later, I discovered he had just joined a theatre group. His explaination was that he felt theatre practice was 'really liberating'. I openly discussed the difference between acting and RPGing, and when he realized I wouldn't buy any of his excuses, he just said: 'Anon, I just don't like it anymore. I feel like I've grown up and when I look back I find it futile and childish. I liked playing with you guys though.'

That made me question the way I was growing up, how some of the others eventually grew further away from the old connections and groups. It was a hard blow back then.
I believed, and still believe, in the way RPGs can give some fulfillment through a purposeful story or just some laughs and good times when I play with friends.
>>
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>>50254682
If we're going that way, Camillia made a much better everything

But Oboro was the 2nd best girl in Birthright.
>>
>>50252779
If your DM isn't a friend then him knowing your political preference is a problem, even with friends you shouldn't talk about fuckin' politics.
>>
>>50254715
>But Oboro was the 2nd best girl in Birthright.
After who?
>>
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>>50254741
The best
>>
>>50254682
>>50254715
>>50254741
>>50254763
>>>/v/
>>
>>50254712
What a cunt.
>>
>>50252779
He one of the types that thinks minorities will be round up into concentration camps under Trump?
>>
>>50252765

I favor the Mike "Born This Way? Time To Pay" Pence nickname that some anon coined in another thread.
>>
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>>50254763
Good taste, but that's not pic related.

>>50254779
Wasn't there a Fire Emblem based tabletop system someone here was working on? Or did I just imagine that?
>>
>>50252678
Mike "The only trans I care about are transformers" Pence
>>
>>50250681
I let someone who claimed to know the rules, actually didn't, and refused to learn DM. It was entirely my fault, especially considering that he kept sniping my session time slots, because, since he was in my game, running parallel to his, I kept telling him when it was.
>>
>>50252799
>Still feel bad about it
What part? The, "made sure some group of potentially grab-happy douche-nozzles didn't do anything shitty," part? Or the, "my now-wife hasn't played a tabletop RPG since," part?

Because the former isn't anything to feel sorry for, the dissolution of the group is an unavoidable side-effect, and the latter is easy to fix; just invite her to your game night and run a system she's familiar with.
>>
>>50254873
Mike "Donald, Get the Zapper" Pence
Mike "Electric Fence" Pence
Mike "Shocks for Cocks" Pence
>>
>>50255888

Mike "Black of Skin, Die of Sin" Pence
Mike "Like Sodomy? Time for a Lobotomy" Pence
Mike "Not carrying it to term? You're gonna learn" Pence
>>
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>>50250681
Yeah, I invited a good friend from another game I played in into the game I was running to replace departing players. He and I got along super well, couldn't imagine it being a problem. Another guy in the group just instantly disliked him, and spent the entire game arguing with and antagonizing him, getting offended by everything he did, complaining and bitching about him between games and bad mouthing him to other players. I seriously don't have a fucking clue what his problem with the guy was. It came on so fast there wasn't even time for the guy to have done something to upset him.

The entire game fell apart because they could not stop feuding. The older player eventually spilled this over into other games the new guy wasn't even involved in, becoming generally abrasive and obnoxious to other players. Ultimately I jettisoned him from the group entirely. The whole thing was bizarre. Prior to that, he had always been slightly annoying, but no more so than most of my friends, and never a problem player.

The girls in the group said they thought he was jealous of the other guy, and that he was acting like a girl who was bitchy about a hotter girl joining the group. Another friend of his said he was having trouble with his girlfriend. I thought it might have been spillover influence from another player he had become roommates with. But I still don't really know what his deal was.
>>
>>50252779

I'm not a fan of Trump but politics should be left behind when you game.

I don't care if you're a goddamn Neo-Nazi and want to bring about the Fourth Reich as long as you keep it to yourself while in the game and around the people you game with. We don't need to know and we don't care.
>>
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>>50252541
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
>>
>>50256013
Sometimes people just get a weird vibe from others that makes them instantly dislike them. Best example I can give is from college. I lived in town, with my mother, instead of on campus. One day, while in the store, I ran into someone who was in one off my classes, who struck up a conversation; she was buying mixers for an out of town party she was going to. My mom walks up part-way through, I introduce my mom to her, and notice as I'm doing it that my mom is making this disgusted face.

I later on apologized to her for my mom doing that, and she described it as, "she looked like was about to try to eat her own face off." In retrospect, she wasn't wrong, but that's still pretty hilarious.
>>
>>50253728
>shit that never happened
>>
>>50253728
>When the group members protested, he would intimidate/persuade them and win the rolls.
Just tell him to fuck off already, being the party face does not make him able to make all decisions.
>>
>>50251744
God. You're a fucking faggot and your wife is a huge cunt.

I hope your kid breaks the faggot cycle.
>>
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>>50256520
>Wanting to raise your kids to be polite is a bad thing
>Getting annoyed when a guest repeatedly does something to ask them politely not to do is unreasonable
>>
>>50256593
He's a troll. Stop feeding him (You)s.
>>
>>50251563
Haynes?
>>
>>50251563
Caudell?
>>
>>50256678

McNulty?
>>
>>50256593
It's not about getting annoyed, which was fair, it's the fact that the wife was "voraciously offended" because the guy said she bitched him out, the GM demanded he apologise for it, and the fact that the group "lost the will to live" as a result of his insincere apology.

The group sounds more pathetic than the loser who couldn't watch his language.
>>
>>50256709

No, this is Patrick.
>>
>>50256709
Snake?
>>
>>50256714
This just in: mass suicide due to failed apology.
>>
>>50256732

Lana?
>>
>>50256732
LIQUID!

>>50256741
Sounds like Democrat voters
>>
>>50251744
>t. Gaylord of the Dance
>>
>>50256757
>Gaylord of the Dance
Thanks, shitposter. I now have a new idea for a BBEG.
>>
>>50254712
that sucks anon :(
His excuses are a bit lame too, I only got into RPGs in my adult life (22+)

On the flipside though, tabletop RPGs are a thing where if you just aren't into it anymore, then there isn't any point in continuing.

If you aren't enjoying playing pretend with a load of other people then I guess you just get super-aware of the fact you're all just playing pretend.
>>
>>50256891
Not the guy you're replying to, but I know that feeling. Our group consists of university students and young professionals, the latter being successful people with important corporate jobs. Yet they're still really happy to fight pretend monsters and character act as other people.
>>
>>50254712
>he had just joined a theatre group.
Strange. About 80% of my group consists of amateur actors. In my experience, they fucking love RPGs.
>>
>>50253718
That's the most common problem I see
>>
>>50254321
>>50254712
"Growing up is not an act of cutting ties to the things you enjoy as a child; it is an act of finding your limits, defining your priorities, and learning that what you do in your spare time, as long as it doesn't hurt anyone, isn't anyone's business but your own."

I don't know who, if anyone, said that, but it's been something that's bounced around inside my head for a long, long time.
>>
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>>50256209
>get slightly triggered that the slots don't line up

I just failed a test, didn't I?
>>
>>50252453
Benedict "Cumberbitch" Cumberbatch
>>
>>50257128
That's the OCD test.

Don't worry, at least you ain't a turboautist.
>>
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My only story is a bit underwhelming but
> my group
> Me: Compsci major.
> Other Compsci major I invited to replace prevouse player.
> Telecomunications Major: Actually cool guy. Jacked AF and probably the smoothest role-player in the group.
> English Lit Major: 100% fatlus. Just wants to talk about Devil Summoner or play expys of Devil Summoner characters
> Compsci Major: Probably autist. Had no concept of personal space and his character frequently TOOK A SWIG FROM HIS HIP FLASK. Like every 10 fucking seconds MY CHARACTER TAKES A SWIG FROM HIS HIP FLASK.
> is a character distraught? I OFFER HIM A SWIG FROM MY HIP FLASK
> BBEG giving a speech? Hold on while I TAKE A SWIG FROM MY HIP FLASK.

Anyway Telecom Major left for a different campus and and the Compsci dude I invited started ditching every other game due to insane schedule. The DM brought in two a MASSIVE neckbeard to compensate for this and I diched because every fucking session was the same grade 7 autistic jokes and endless discussions of magic the gathering. No one permanently replaced me and the group collapsed a month and a half later due to GM losing his shit with the players.
>>
>>50257383
Clarification: he brought on two dudes but one ditched after 1 session and basically did nothing during the session
>>
Had a guy in our group that was just horrible. He never bathed you could smell him when he entered the store. h would touch my dice all the time now I'm one of the dm's and i have a rule that you only touch my dice if i drop one and you can reach it. he would also constantly hit on/ stalk the two female players that we had to the point that one stopped playing. he could not build a character to save his life we called him one week because his characters typically would only survive that long. we kicked him out and started stalking out group but the owner eventually banned him after he followed an underaged girl into the bathroom.
>>
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>>50252362
Knows the feels
>>
>>50251744
Fuck your shitty-ass wife and your stupid kid. You don't deserve friends, but you two assholes deserve each other.
Seriously, I fucking hate people like you. The world doesn't revolve around your goddamn kid and this is why you don't bring the wife/girlfriend to the table.
You are that guy, you're just so self-centered and up your own ass that you don't even have the decency to realize it.
Fuck this thread, fuck this board, I'm out.
>>
>>50251744
Does your wife let you say bad words when Tyrone's fucking her?
>>
>>50251744
sounds like you're all fags for different reasons
>>
>>50252310
wow.
They probably think you're dead
If I were them I wouldn't want to know the truth
>>
>>50256593
>Being so neutered and gay that you are cowed to your wife's every whim and demand.
>Having 0 balls at all
>Being an adult and having a "no! bad! words!" policy and yet hosting events with other adults.

Stick to hosting Bible study you buttfucking faggot.
>>
>>50252779
as long as you weren't being dicks about it I don't see why he should have been so salty.
Also this seems fake
>>
>>50251747
>>Suddenly decides to go all Tyrant DM. Some 'peasant' deity-spawn runs and just says "Beware the Lady is the most powerful in the world! Say anything bad she'll strip your flesh and throw you back in the street"

>playing a Planescape game
>he doesn't know about the Lady of Pain

You're an idiot.
>>
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>Begin to run a weekly game for some friends and two coworkers
>Coworker invites her boyfriend
>Her boyfriend invites two friends, they show up with two more friends
>This happens three nights in a row
>Group of 4 players and me expands to 16 players, only 5 of them have ever played DnD before
>I do my best, wrangling them as well as I can
>Group starts thinning out after 2 months
>Drops to 10
>Then to 8
>Group is roughly half female, half male
>Everything is fine now and everyone is into it.
>Cheatsheets for rules questions have streamlined everything
>One of the girl's characters dies after being crit'd by a minotaur
>Rolled max, 72 damage killed her from full health
>She starts crying a bit
>Tom begins to rub her back
>I move on, continuing combat
>One loop around the table, aka 30 something minutes later, I look over, Tom is still rubbing her back
>She looks me in the eye
>I ask her to step outside
>She tells me she's asked Tom to stop three times already and she's going to break his hand if he touches her again
>We go back in
>Tom goes to rub her back again
>She slaps him in the face and starts screaming at him that he's creepy and a piece of shit
>Tom starts to cry
>She leaves, taking with her two people who rode with her
>Tom leaves and takes three people that rode with him
>Me and the last person just kind of sit in silence
>"So... does that mean I win?"

Tom showed up once or twice, but without letting me know ahead of time. The girl that slapped him told me she wouldn't come back, it was just too weird.

Without rides the others just stopped showing up.

Tom was a fucking creep though, first thing he said to me was, "Hi, I'm Tom. I'm bi-sexual and in an open relationship."
>>
>>50252453
all of these newfag replies holy shit
>>
>>50251744
What's this 'good burn'? Because based on how much of a faggot you are, I'm expecting something super dogshit.
>>
>>50253580
those are some bad players but your old bad players don't seem so bad.
I wish there was more new blood honestly, my uni is empty of people, no official club and I haven't seen a flyer or anything in the two years I've been here. If there is any new blood it's underground.
>>
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>>50251744
Why is your kid at the table?

Shit women with kids ruin d&d.

https://www.reddit.com/r/DnD/comments/598o9c/update_my_dm_did_the_biggest_asshole_thing_i_have/
>>
>>50258323
He never said the kid was at the table.
The kid could have just overheard the man swearing and then start parroting it at school.

Retards that can't pay attention ruin d&d
>>
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>>50258397
Calm down Sally. Your kid should be in bed not ruining shit for grown adults.
>>
>>50258455
I'm pretty sure all the posts with your opinion are just you samefagging, anon. Why do you need people to believe you're right so much? Are you the fuck that kept swearing in front of the kid and had to trash talk the wife because she gives him PTSD from all the cuckoldry?
>>
>>50258323
>>50258455
LOL
>>
>>50258323
holy fuck i hope that's not true
some autism from the GM but complete hysterics on the part of that couple
>>
>>50258796
that story sounds super fake to me
>>
>>50257747
>"So... does that mean I win?"

Kek'd and check'd
>>
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>>50251744
>giving your friend shit for swearing
>>
>>50251744
I don't understand why there is a kid that young at a table with grown ups.

I don't understand how "don't talk like you normally do, be sure to double check everything before you say it for censoring" is a reasonable request.

I don't understand why he needs to apologize to the wife.
>>
>>50252453
Isn't that Skinnyjean Lumberjack?
>>
>>50252453
Underscum Cybercrunch?
>>
Anyone else got the feeling that most threads on /tg/ as of late that deal with any sort story are getting spammed some sort of a "no you sound like a faggot" guy? Every story also now "sounds like you left alot out".

Someones taking "that guy" threads a bit too literally.
>>
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>>50250681
I once had an encounter that completely destroyed a campaign, and nearly broke the group involved into pieces for years afterwards.

The PCs are in the dungeon of an evil cult which has captured an angel which fell from the heavens. Suddenly, an enormous iron maiden looking thing rises from the floor, and opens to reveal the angel itself, now completely insane and lashing out violently at the party. The party has multiple alignments, including a good monk and a sneaky LE... fighter, I wanna say. Anyways, the party fights the angel, the fighter kills it, and the monk, suddenly, completely loses his shit and attacks the fighter, only to get hideously wrecked by the wizard. Immediately the players break down into OOC bickering that I still don't remember the meaning of, and everybody goes their separate ways for a few weeks. Even afterwards, some of the players refused to ever game with the monk again (and, inevitably, did so).

It's lucky this was an online game, because I honestly believe we would have come to blows over the whole thing if it were IRL.
>>
>>50259386
>>50259406
Oh, you mean Broderbund Konamicode.
>>
>>50259439
Nah, you think?

Just don't give it any attention, and eventually it'll go away.
>>
>>50259471
Beryllium Cumulonimbus?
>>
>>50259505
Bendy-bus Cabbagepatch.
>>
>>50259524
Banana-boat Curtaincall
>>
>>50250681
My group just fucking exploded all of a sudden for no reason and now a 18-month campaign is down the drain literally instantly because two of the players called eachother cunts

I want to fucking die
>>
>>50259548
Sherlockholmes Stephenstrange.
>>
>>50259584
Steve
>>
>>50259619
Brokenlimb Caughtintree
I always thought it was "Cottontry" but I guess that's British spelling for you.
>>
Never really had a group fall apart, but we did have one that just didn't continue past one session.
Two of our players just couldn't be relied upon to show up on time. They were two hours late for the first session, and after that they just wouldn't commit.
Well, I say they, but it was really just our friends' girlfriend. Truth be told I'm kinda glad it didn't continue, she's a good friend but she can be an abrasive bitch a lot of the time, and we made the mistake of letting her get access to the advanced race guide for Pathfinder and she was shaping up to be a real special snowflake. It was her first time playing, so it's kinda understandable.
Also, she tried to kill me in the first session. Like, I was being mauled by a monster, and she decided to launch a scorching ray at me instead of said monster. Now, there was a bit of in-game logic behind that, we hadn't really formally met as a party yet, we'd all just jumped in to stop this thing rampaging, and I was playing a bug person. We kind of expected this to be a dick around session for awhile, so we all rolled up crazy characters for the hell of it. I think the only thing that made her more "special snowflake" than us was her tragic backstory where she fucked a dragon to save her village and her people threw her out for it. Compared to our backstories of "The surface looks cool," "My Grippli found a gun and became a murderhobo" "Grandpa Blue Dragon told me to go make money" and "Druid" respectively
The DM basically kept repeating "you're going to kill another PC, are you sure you want to kill another PC?" over and over until she clued in that this was frowned upon.
>>
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>>50258323
>Women with kids ruin games, guys. As evidence, here's a story about a man with no kids ruining a game.
>>
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>>50251744
>ugggh offended
If someone keeps doing something when you tell them not to, you kick them out after the fucking third time it happens

>"we've got a kid"
>having your kid at the table
kek, hope he didn't inherit your faggotry
>>
>>50259209
In front of his kid. Children are impressionable.

Besides, his house his rules. If you can't follow the host's rules, you're a shitty guest. Asking people to watch their language in a family home is not unreasonable you feckless autist.
>>
>>50259897
Did you miss the part where she was an emotional pregnant woman?

The kid isn't even born and it's already cucking shit up.

https://www.reddit.com/r/DnD/comments/58l67l/rant_my_dm_did_the_biggest_asshole_thing_i_have/
>>
We caught one of our players cheating once, taking more skills than his level allotted, and skills he didn't meet the pre-reqs for.

He threw a giant shitfit and tore up all our character sheets and most of the GMs notes before we could pin the fucker.
>>
>>50254288
I remember one of my friends groups had trouble with a break up between members because one of them was the healer and it got kinda difficult to sustain.
>>
>>50254485
Dan "The Man With the Plan to get you in his Van" Schneider
Dan "Show me your feet or you gonna get beat" Schneider
>>
>>50252362
>filename
Literally laughed out loud, nice one!
>>
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>>50257383
>I TAKE A SWIG FROM MY HIP FLASK
Fuck, that's funny. Like, not in-game obviously, but it's making me laugh.
It's like Boom Goes the Dynamite.
>>
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>>50257747
>Does this mean I win?
Give the man a shot of something from the top shelf
>>
>>50250681
I'm running a 3.5 game set in the Elder Scrolls, and two of my best players, who I've known since middle school, decided they wanted nothing to do with me anymore.
I've tried getting a new group together, and for the most part it's limping along, but it's just not the same. It's a long story.
>>
>>50254485
>>50260000
You mean "The Man With the Master Plan" Dan "Put Drugs in her Cider and Stick it Inside Her" Schneider?

Fantastic digits, by the way.
>>
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Does this count?

>Neutral or Evil characters only "Assassin Guild" style 3.5 game
>Party takes out target
>Everyone immediately turns on each other
>Sorcerer hits rogue with scorching ray
>Rogue has a vial of greek fire meant for destroying all evidence
>FWOOM
>Everyone, already wounded, burns to death.
>EFW

We later ran a sillier game where we went around driving 90's superheroes and supervillains to insanity and alcoholism.
>>
>>50260160
No, that seems like the natural conclusion to any session featuring only Neutral or Evil characters.
>>
>>50260160
Sounds like your typical Paranoia session.
>>
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>>50257747
>"So... does that mean I win?"
>>
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It never stops hurting.

>Was a GM for a four year campaign set in a homemade fantasy setting that was carefully put together over those four years.
>Had a concurrent group that went through too many adventures to count in the lands
>Each character had their own fleshed out storylines that were created during play
>Many intertwining story lines, with an overarching story that started in the beginning to session one
>NPC Friends, deaths, fights, love, dungeons, and dragons
>They only made it half way through the storyline and had already gone to other planes of existence, parallel worlds, traveled backward and forward in time in order to get that one step closer to their goal.

In the end it all came to an end because of interpersonal drama between myself and some of the members. It was truly my magnum opus and its all gone now
>>
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>>50254682
>>50254682
Best girl for the first half of the game when I played without sound. Mfw i first heard her voice which was the scene right after marrying her
>>
>>50260298
Frankly that game sounds like a terrible railroad. Why would you decide ahead of time what's going to happen in the campaign?
>>
>>50252310
You're a cunt
>>
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>>50260408
I use the term main storyline loosely. They found a map on their first quest that displayed a location on the other side of the settings world.

They didn't necessarily need to follow it. I simply added it as a means of structure so they could do normal quest stuff and in their downtime when they didnt know what to do they could say "Ohh hey we should follow this".

Then from this "Main storyline" I was able to graft stories attached to it that flowed and connected during their adventure.

In a basic form its like taking the idea of a normal dungeon or mega dungeon crawl. But super imposing it upon the world.
>>
>>50250681
Yup. My most recent gaming group broke up over the election. The guy who was hosting and pur regular DM kicked half the group out for being Trump supporters and the other half just fell apart because the guy who was DMing over half the games we were playing got kicked. Still kind of depressed about it.
>>
>>50260408
>letting players decide the plot
>>
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Posted this before but the first campaign I ever played ended after the third session when one of the players tried to pretend she was getting possessed by a demon. Like, not in the game. She started chanting and clawing at us irl. Pissed everyone off and we didn't play again for 6 months when we started up again without her.
>>
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>>50260594
>having players
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>>50254485
You're all forgetting about Mike "Kill a Kike" Stoklasa, AKA "Third Reich" Mike, AKA "The Milwaukee Mulatto Murderer"
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>>50260709
And what about everyone's favorite actor, Mel "Don't snooze around Jews" Gibson?
>>
>steampunk campaign
>weeaboo gives his female elf a Japanese name
>hands me a character sheet with a katana as a starting weapon
>hair: purple
>skin tone: light blue; C cup

Literally tore the sheet in half in front of the group. He went on a rant about how that isn't fair for about 30 minutes, teared up, before calling his mom to bring him home.
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>>50252779
My group almost had the reverse problem. I'm the only Trump supporter in the group, but they agreed not to talk about how evil drumpf is as long as I didn't brag about Trump's win.
That agreement quickly got chucked when they inevitably started talking shit about Trump, to which I responded by blaring "America fuck yeah!" from my tablet. Thankfully wer're all still friends and game together with few issues.
>>
>dming a game for some friends, and other assorted people who are interesting in starting RPing
>Players:
>The munchkin (playing a wizard)
>the girlfriend (playing an ultra efficient build the munchkin pulled off the internet)
>the asshole (who was also a munchkin, had to pull about 5 things that he "totally didn't know were homebrewed" off his character sheet)
>the social gamer (playing a randomly slapped together character that made no sense and basically did nothing)
>The guy who actually wanted to learn how to play games (simple, boring character, but with a detailed backstory, and some real attempts at roleplaying)
>The girl who actually wanted to learn how to roleplay (unique character concept, consulted experienced players for help, but still made her own character)
>the tumblr social gamer (I don't even remember what they played it, not actually a bad person)

First session was already mostly disastrous, because the asshole was an asshole the whole time, causing the the tumblr and the girlfriend to drop out

The second session, the two munchkins stopped hiding their power levels and started instagibbing encounters, and essentially solving, or ignoring non-combat encounters without any kind of real interaction.

Third session, more of the same. New guy dropped out after this session, after basically not being able to do anything. New girl stuck with it for one more session and then drops. After this the social gamer drops out, because he mostly just wanted to hand out with new guy/girl/tumblr.

This left me with just the munchkin and the asshole. The asshole insisted on continuing with just the two of them, the munchkin had some manner of enjoyment for the presence of others, decided he didn't want to play anymore, and the tragedy ended.

Pretty much every game in which the asshole was present fell apart in the same manner from what I can tell. I never played with them again thankfully. Did manage to eventually get the new guy into a real game. Was fun
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>>50261081
Ooph. Well, I'm glad at least one of the newbies wasn't totally turned off by the experience.
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>>50254245
This makes me unreasonabily mad.
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>>50254288
I wish Oboro was a guy.
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>>50251744
Honestly fuck off.
>>
What I consider my worst failure, is that I started a game but I didn't end it.

I played one-on-one with a guy but I couldn't make a decent plot because I realized that I hated the system, that I thought I loved. I liked the setting, I liked the ideas behind the mechanics of the system, but I hated a lot of other rules.

So I scrapped the campaign and told him that I was sorry but I just didn't have the drive to play anymore.

I hate myself for giving him false hope.
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>>50259461
>monk starts shit IC
>PvP ensues because the monk attacks
>Even afterwards, some of the players refused to ever game with the monk again (and, inevitably, did so).

Their reaction is completely understandable as PvP is shit 99.9% of the time.
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>>50259577
Flip a coin and continue without one of them.
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>>50260836
>Literally tore the sheet in half in front of the group.
>because a simple 'no' wouldn't have worked.
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>>50252310
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>>50251744
Wow you sure sound like a cuck, i bet that kid is your wifes son and not yours faglord, grows some balls your kid is gonna swear if you can't handle language don"t host at your house.
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>>50250681
I've got a good ol' story.

>7-person group composed of 3 couples and myself.
>Most of the group members have been friends for years and years.
>Couple A is the GM and his girlfriend
>Couple B just got married, like less than 1 month before this incident.
>Couple C were the newest additions to the group. Most of us only knew the girl originally, but her boyfriend seemed pretty cool.
>5e Eberron. We play weekly for 6 months, bi-weekly for 6 more. GM is super invested in the game at this point. Game goes mostly fine.
>One day, the guy from Couple C asks girl from Couple B if she'd be interested in a 3-some with Couple C.
>She visibly finds the idea abhorrent and tells her husband about it. C guy and B guy argue.
>C guy tries to meme it off, "lol, i was totally just kidding" (but there's this implied "unless you gunna do it")
>B guy is kinda a drama queen as it is. Everyone knows this is going to be a thing now.
>Have a couple sessions where the guys from Couples B and C sit out.
>Palpable tension everywhere. No one has fun.
>Group unravels. The year-long campaign goes entirely unresolved.
>Shit gets super catty. Couple C breaks up, allegedly because C guy was more interested in a 3-some than a real relationship.
>Couple B gets divorced after being married less than a year. Mostly because the guy is a manchild and drama queen.
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>>50261426
Moral: Don't play with couples.
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>>50250681
>Friend is GMing and knows the rest of us going on 7 years now.
>Thinks we need 'fresh blood' to revitalize the group.
>Point out maybe we do something other then being plain mooks always working for NPC's
>Ignored.jpg
>New guy comes in and nobody likes him
>Can't pick up on any clues and the rest of the group lets him get his way
>Three weeks of other PC's bringing shit up to me about how New guy is an issue, tell them to talk to GM get usual excuse 'we did'
>GM sees nothing wrong
>Call the guy and GM out on bullshit favoritism, random new 'homebrews' that he happened to add in at that moment for the new guy
>Find out the guy is the GM's boyfriend who wanted to try.
>Fuck me, I just insulted GM's boyfriend
>The guy says thanks for playing and leaves
>Everything is cool, GM dones't seem mad
>GM sends out an Email stating he'll never talk to us again because the faggot got some bullshit PDST or something for not giving him everything he wanted.


I just wanted my friends to not be bullied some new guy.
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>>50253718
>I've had problems with folk playing it like a video game and just not roleplaying.
I've never run a game, but my current GM solved this problem by running adventures with a lot of problem-solving elements rather than just combat. Like puzzles, dungeoneering, intrigue, planning heists, etc.. It teaches players good habits - to ask questions, to be creative, and to look for solutions outside of the obvious, which a lot of vidya-savvy newcomers to TTRPGs tend not to do.

Plus, those kinds of things are where TTRPGs really shine in relation to video games, so why not focus on them when giving someone their first taste of TTRPGs?
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>>50261426
sick kanye reference, dude
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>>50251744
enh reasonable but yea maybe don't have a kid around next time eh?
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>>50252198
I literally can't tell if you're baiting or not, christ-o
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>>50252453
Lotionskin Cunterlatch?
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>>50259908
>in front of his kid
What the fuck was his kid doing there? If your friend is used to swearing it's real hard for him to switch from it and double check his every sentence.
Also why was I able to manage my daughter when she was two, from overhearing our games I hosted, but they can't?
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>>50255651
The latter, and I don't have a game night or group available. Aside from a few sessions with her group before it fell apart I haven't played tabletop since high school.
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>>50250681
goddamn that hurts to read.
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>>50252453
Is it Bendydick Cuminhersnatch?
>>
>be me (in 2013)
>be 21 Uni student being poor-fag and still living at home while going to school
>my step-brother has just moved back in to the house at 16 (use to live with his mom)
>"Hey Anon, you should introduce StepBro to your friends, all he does is sit around the house and play video games. You should take him to your friends boardgame nights or whatever you do."
>Moved a bunch as a kid due to Dads work so I know moving to a new area is rough
>Talk to the group of friends, decide on a super easy 2D6 system (Dungeon World) since he never RP'd before
>Day before with him, make a character and explain how to play
>seems to go a-ok
>dawn of the final day, its storming outside - friends come over. Session begins okay until he gets bored.
>tries to kill a player character by purposely setting off traps, wants to loot everything and sexually assault women in the game pissing off every NPC we come across - and ends up killing one of the main quest line NPC's
>female friend goes to "the bathroom" - ends up talking with my Mom upstairs the rest of the night
>about 2 hours in, another friend gets tired of his shit, ends up "accidentally" killing his character

(1/2)
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>>50262055
>Nuclear Launch detected
>Step bro goes apeshit
>ends up just yelling at my friend, for a whole 30 seconds before I tell him to get out if hes not going to accept the results of the game
>he grabs one of the clipboards for characters (female friend) and throws it like a Frisbee - which gets air enough to hit - and break the basement window.
>OH-SHIT-NIGGER-WHAT-THE-FUCK-ARE-YOU-DOING
>Winds rip through the window throwing rain into the basement
>everyone goes into full panic mode, 2 friends and myself grabbing pillows to block the window - while not looking I am still yelling "what the fuck <Step brothers name> but step-brother seems to have disappeared."
>Mom and female friend comes down asking what the sound was and why step-brother just ran outside in the storm (mom asking if it was part of the boardgame? - no mom plz)

TLDR;
Brother was a dick to everyone
Got killed in the game
Had a meltdown
Brought the wrath of god into our house
Had to call the police
Session ended with a flooded basement, angry parents, and pissed off friends


We look back now on it and laugh - but holy shit my friends wouldn't come over for like 4 months after that
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>>50251744
I hope this is just high class shitposting, I really do.
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>>50252779
Practically every trump supporter I have met is retarded and/or an insufferable /pol/lok. I wouldn't run a game for you fags either.
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>>50252135
Damn strait.
Had a that guy for a minute in my current group.
Always brought his live in gf.
Gf didn't play.
Just took up a seat at the table.
Table get's cramped af cause 7 players + myself.
After 2 sessions tell him she can't be at the table unless she's playing.
She still hangs on and just watches TV/fucks off on my wifi cause they're poor potheads with no internet.
He works and she "makes pipes to sell on Etsy" but they smoke an ounce a week when being conservative potheads.
It evidently got him so buttmad he TPKed the party.
Made a comment 2 days later "I did what I set out to do"
Tried to show up for next session and said we should just sandbox play. That's what HE prefers anyways. Aka just fucking about/murderhoboing on the fly.
Everyone is still pissed at him.
Confronted him about that comment and told him he wasn't welcome to play because that's immature as fuck and wasted everyone's time.
Picked up previous campaign.
Get's all pissed and leaves.
The following week cops show up because they got an anonymous call about a domestic at my house.
2 of my players smoke herb and I'm ok with it at the table.
One ownes up to it.
Tell cop the call was bullshit and explain who it probably was.
2 grills there obviously aren't getting their asses kicked
Cop lets player off cause it was like .8 gram and figures out he's not driving after.
Still went through over an hour of bullshit.
That was the last game of that particular section of the campaign and it got cut short.
3 of the players are off at 2 different colleges for 5 more weeks.
In the time being though I've cleared out and cleaned up my garage (4 car)
Purchased party tables and chairs for our kickoff session when school's over.
So it was my screwup letting a that guy join up.
I figured he could get into the swing of the rest of the group.
If I see that fucker again I'm going to knock his fucking teeth out though.
Pretty much got him blacklisted from all of the local groups in my city at the game shops.
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>>50259577
>>50261172
Flip two coins, disregard the results and continue without both.
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>>50251876
>Don't use your normal vocabulary, we have a kid somewhere around here. Won't someone please think of the children!?
>OK I'll try
>Shit, another critical miss
>What the fudge you used a no no word again, stop it!
>Geeze, fine I'll try
>Damn, that's going to hurt
>YOU SWORE AGAIN THIS IS SO OFFENSIVE MY WIFE IS VERY OFFENDED APOLOGIZE THIS INSTANT!!!
>No. I don't need this bullshit, I'm out.


It's not the guy's responsibility to raise their kids for em, if they don't want them to ever get a whiff of a bad word (as if that can be done in the age of television and the internet), then take proactive measures. If you are going to have a grown up gathering get a babysitter and hold the meetings somewhere else, have someone take them to the movies or a friends house for a sleep over or something. Making other people alter their behavior for YOUR kids is a dick move, as is crying about how "offended" you are that someone pointed out your behavior is dickish and then demanding an apology is a dick move too.

Even after all that there's the fact that they were complaining about it, not because he has some deep-seated moral objection to a curse word, but because they didn't want their kid to swear in public and make 'em "look bad".
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>>50262201
Snitches get stitches.
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>>50252042
>t.joyless faggot who fell for the millennial meme and now spouts it like /pol/ will the jews
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>>50252135

...playing with your parole officer would be a weird game.
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>>50254245
Guy sounds like an insecure faggot. Cutting Edgelord is a perfectly sound thing to do. But indiscriminately cutting everyone is tumblr levels of looking to be offended
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>>50253580

Man am I glad that the one time I've played WoD it was with good friends, and we were explicitly playing it as "Snatch, but with vampires".
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>>50262310

Regardless of whether or not you think it's a shitty rule, if you agree to follow the rule, you should fucking follow the rule. If you mess up you should try to do better. If you repeatedly mess up then you're either not trying or not suited for an environment with such rules.

Don't agree to rules you can't follow.
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>>50262610
>Snatch, but with vampires
Your group is perfect.
I want in
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>End up being forever DM because everyone else was lazy as fuck
>Finally another player steps forward to DM
>All his games have a precise, convoluted ending that if the players don't find every clue, they can't finish the session/campaign
>Makes his own shitty system in a weekend
>Goes on a massive fucking ego trip about it
>Rejects all criticism, constructive or not
>Doesn't fix anything, just adds more shit to it until it's nearly unplayable
>Finally, no one wants to play his shit system
>Instead he becomes a massive That Guy who has to "win" tabletop RPGs and only plays CE-type characters
>Other players get bored of him and me arguing over rules in every system, lose interest in a campaign I was running, just want to kill monsters
>One player tells me that he won't be participating in the campaign if he can't be bothered getting out of bed our weekly sessions were in the afternoon on Fridays
>Decide to not play with these arse-holes any more
>Tell them I'm burned out and I won't be back for a while
>That Guy is the only person willing to run anything
>No one likes his games
>Group falls apart
>Guys who were just there to fight stuff ask me to come back
>Have to fight the urge to tell them to fuck off
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>>50262638
>korean
>Yakuza 4

?
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>>50262707
Koreans and Japanese are the same thing anyway, right?
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>do something
>get told not to do something
>still do it
this is apparently ok to the autists of /tg/
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>>50252453
Casey?
I've a feeling it's casey.
>>
>>50262738
The replies to that post made me realize that even if /tg/ is one of the better boards on 4chan, it's still on 4chan.

ITS NOT ABOUT THE CURSING OR THE KID YOU DICKCUTTING TURBOAUTISTS, ITS BEING UNABLE TO FOLLOW REPEATED REQUESTS AND BITCHING WHEN SOMEONE BURNS YOU FOR IT REEEEEEEE
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I had a campaign break down at the very end once, but it was still super disheartening.

>The party finally defeats the BBEG and mostly foils his plan but there is still lots of destruction he caused
>BBEG is a spirit of a lost kingdom possessing a young girl trying to bring back his lost people
>BBEG is genuinely remorseful for what he's done when it fails and the paladin wants to try to redeem him, having always sought redemption for his own misdeeds and seeing a kindred soul in the BBEG
>The warlock has a pact with the vengeful force that destroyed the BBEG's kingdom and needs to see the vessel killed so his patron can reclaim the BBEG or else the warlock's own soul is forfeit. Everyone in the party knows this.
>The rogue wants to exorcise the spirit and save the young girl, who was a ritual sacrifice they failed to saved many months ago. He has seen that as their biggest failure for a long time.
>Finally, after a year and a half long campaign the party is at odds with each other and convictions will be tested.
>They argue about it out of character for hours and get so fed up with each other that they all just refuse to make a decision
>Furthermore, the other two players hate the paladin player forever for being so unyielding in his insistence that anyone can be redeemed.

Unjust wanted them to role play their disagreement in character... I mean, it was nice that I've never had players try to attack each other over petty disagreements before but when the story warrants it is another matter.
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>>50262062
>mom asking if it was part of the boardgame
Kek.
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>>50251744
I guess I'll be the only person with a brain here. He never said the kid was at the table, you all just assumed that. When I was younger and my parents had friends over, I would sit by my door and listen to what they were all saying.

Regardless, if someone asks you to do something AND YOU AGREE TO IT, then they're reasonable for getting upset when you don't follow through. Yeah not cursing can be lame, but he should have the decency to respect people's wishes provided they don't interfere with his ability to live. If he didn't want to not curse, then he didn't have to agree.
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>>50262957
you don't go to another man's house and ignore the rules. Simple as fuck. Even worse if you know beforehand and still shit your pants over it
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>>50252387

Is it even worth pointing out that IQ scores have been reported in percentiles not raw scores for like 30 goddamn years now!
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>>50263051
True dat
And then you don't insult a man's wife and play dumb
That shits just aggravating and choosing to be childish
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>>50260836
>Being this proud of being an asshole

You could just have told him what you expected or the game, or how the setting was, but that would mean to actually behave like a person, and thats not what you do, right?
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>>50253376
I don think he ever said the tiny one started it. Unless the 6'5" guy is supposed to be the manlet.
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>>50257564
I understood none of that green-text. Someone translate it pls.
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>>50257608
I think I found the former player.

But let's be real, if you are a guest in someone's home, their wife and/or kid is very likely to be around at some point. If you're too much of an autist to mind your fucking manners after multiple warnings, you deserved to get slagged off for it. And the wife has every right to be offended that you found it unacceptable for someone who invited you into their home to as you not to be an autistic cunt.
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>>50262738
Stop posting.
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>>50262610
WoD is better with online groups when you've got that sweet spot.

>roll20 wod going on 2 years now
>start with Transylvania chronicles set in 1195
>me playing a Cappadocian Giovanni
>a road of kings Lasombra
>a Tremere scumbag
>assamite dude that played like one session

Starts off rocky. Assamite player dropped out pretty much right away (good riddance honestly). Tremere scumlord convinces Lasombra player that it'd be a good idea for them to diablerize Lucita and Anatole.

>fuck that

They do it while I'm standing aside not taking part. Tremere frenzies during the fight so I torpor him. He quits the game (good riddance) so I diablerize him and proceed to pretend he never existed.

Next two players are a Malkavian and a Ventrue. Things proceed fantastically with no more murderhobo shit. Malkavian kind of annoying but in a proper Malkavian way. He ends up picking a fight with Mary the Black in Constantinople and gets rekt. In character we never figured out what happened to him but there was much turmoil so we think nothing of it.

Good game. We finished when our characters got too powerful (specifically our Abyss Mystic lassy)
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>>50257383
>I TAKE A SWIG FROM MY HIP FLASK
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>>50258564
Dude this is 4chan. Most of the people here are exactly like the asshole in your story, just stop replying.
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>>50263571
it made no sense to me either
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>>50257383

>I TAKE A SWIG FROM MY HIP FLASK

Okay that's funny because i've seen far too many movies of alcoholics drinking from a flask at the most inappropriate situations and this is exactly that.
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>>50262310
>If you are going to have a grown up gathering get a babysitter and hold the meetings somewhere else, have someone take them to the movies or a friends house for a sleep over or something. Making other people alter their behavior for YOUR kids is a dick move

If you want to have free reign to swear, you host the game.

If not, get the fuck out.

What, you going to want to start smoking there too, and pissing on the walls if that's your normal behaviour?
>>
Personal drama may have killed my first good character.
>In uni, living in dorm
>Make friends with people on my floor
>Two brothers and two girls
>Miraculously, they are all interested in playing D&D
>So we start playing a pirate campaign
>The group consisted of
>DM (Brother1/Boyfriend), Asshat (Brother2/Fun guy) a Human Ranger then Brawler,
>GF (New Girlfriend/Best Friend) a Catfolk Rogue
>Bestie (GF's best friend/new to this) a Nagaji Sorcerer
>and me an Orc Fighter who wanted to become a great chef
>I either can't remember the other characters' motivations or they were never clearly stated
>Anywho, we start playing for a few sessions and things are going fine
>Can't play as often as I'd like due to classes, tests, and other college social life
>This goes on for the rest of the semester until we all leave the dorm we were in the next semester
>I move to cheapo dorm, the girls move to slightly upscale dorm, and the brothers move to apartment on campus
>Still manage to keep in touch and play semi regularly
>At this point I found out that Bestie had a crush on Asshat when we started the campaign, but from what she told me she was over it
>Still fine, we all have fun being pirates, I legitimately enjoy playing my character, good times are had
part 1/2
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>>50254855
No, but historically, whenever progressive politics begin making headway, there is a notable conservative backlash that seeks to (usually succeeds to) erode the gains.
America has several dozen examples of this, the biggest being Lincoln/Jackson and Reconstruction.
>>
>>50264231
part 2/2
>Then the DM and GF break up. I'm still friends with both but this makes hanging out with either more difficult
>At this point Bestie seems invested in the campaign and seems to have befriended myself, GM, and Asshat
>We have to put the game on hiatus during the aftermath which lasted a few weeks
>Decide to bring in new friend to fill the slot since GF doesn't want to play anymore.
>Newbie rolls a Swashbuckler of some kind, he was really new and didn't really understand the game at the time
>We continue the game with GF's character getting washed overboard during a storm and finding Newbie's character the next day in a dingy
>The campaign goes on for the rest of the semester
>Don't get to play as much since I was dealing with some shit, the brothers were in there last year and had to focus, and Bestie had to focus more on school
>DM and Asshat end up graduating and moving out of state before we can finish
>Then me and Bestie have a falling out for reasons
>I'm still sad that Cook-Cook the Orc master chef will never be a thing
>>
>>50257057
Or, by C. S. Lewis:
“When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up.”
>>
>>50257608

>Fuck your shitty-ass wife and your stupid kid. You don't deserve friends, but you two assholes deserve each other.

Have some sort of issue with kids/marriage there?

>Seriously, I fucking hate people like you. The world doesn't revolve around your goddamn kid and this is why you don't bring the wife/girlfriend to the table.

Not the world. Someone invited into their own home, asked multiple times to stop cursing. Is it really that hard to not curse? On a semi related side note, I've always found cursing to be a good barometer of someone's intelligence. The stupid person has to use curse words in substitution of other words since they don't have the proper vocabulary to express themselves.

>You are that guy, you're just so self-centered and up your own ass that you don't even have the decency to realize it.

The irony

>Fuck this thread, fuck this board, I'm out.

Good riddance
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>>50257756
I mean, if you're really pleased that neckbeards are unaware of your out-board memes, that's cool
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>>50264431
Go fuck yourself
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>>50264529
weren't you leaving the board?
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>>50264259
You need to add names (even fake names) to this story. "Bestie" and "Asshat" are too hard to keep track of
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>>50261580
If you're an adult and you can't reign in your language, you're not an adult.
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>>50262606
Hang with scum, get treated like scum. Watch who you associate with. You will be judged based on who you surround yourself with.
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>>50264548
He's addicted to getting upset. It's pathetic
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>>50264611
>You will be judged based on who you surround yourself with.
It's funny how people can make it all the way to the age of majority without realizing this.
>>
>>50251744
Cyberpunk game. Swearing forbidden. Wife is playing instead of making sandwiches and shutting the fuck up.

You SJWs are fucking cancer!
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>have a decent railroad adventure with my players
>they were newbies in the system so I played everything more simple for them so that they don't get frustrated
>finish it and everyone enjoy it
>start a new campaign without railroading, winging any of my players' decisions
>they're unable to think on their own and end up dropping out the campaign
>>
>>50262310
>(as if that can be done in the age of television and the internet)
Basically this. As soon as your kid gets facebook or instagram they'll be directly connected to all the hot memes from Black Twitter.
>>
>>50264431
If you don't want swearing and cursing, don't play cyberpunk. Play Pendragon or CoC, but not a game of high-tech/low-life.
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>>50264431
Don't answer to them. They just get triggered by people that have their lives sorted out and are violent towards anyone that has passed his genes, something they can't even fathom as possible.

So when they hear anything related to good parenting, they short circuit. It's a concept completely alien to them, caring about someone that isn't their flubby pimply ass.
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>>50250681
My first group, begun when I was 16. I started some oWoD, 3 players. Played for about a year and a half, when I burned out and hid my notes. Told everyone I lost them. One of our players, Angry Guy, was psyched about 4e, so he tried to run one of those. The group actually held together while he threw campaigns at the wall, and after a year, one stuck. We lost a player, but we gained two more, and those two weren't actually that bad.

He ended up running an adventure path, and we played through the first stretch. With prescribed plot threads, it wasnt just monster hunting, and prescribed rewards, it wasnt just a monty haul. Around this time, Dom joined our group

Dom was nearly forty. He was skinny and underfed/ He had a greasy beard and mustache and pony that I was pretty sure was lice infested. He drove a black panel van, and lived in a basement. Whose, I have no idea. He didnt have a real job, but one of the players had a catering business, and he would call Dom when he was catering a large event for an extra set of hands. I guess thats how he found us.

He had pretty shamelessly acting like an idiot since he joined our DnD. He built a thri Keen ranger who stole everything off of enemy corpses. He would carry around like five sets of plain chain mail for the 25 gp it would bring. Our GM had always been bad about encumberance, since no one had been an asshole about it. OOC, he would always argue his character should get another standard attack action, because his thri keen had extra attacks. I went into heavy rules lawyer mode, just to make sure he wouldnt cheat.

Around the same time, the other guys asked if i would run a game again. I said sure, mutants and masterminds 2e, 90 pp. I asked the players if they would write out their sheets. I was checking their math with the herolab demo. Dom some how found out I was using herolab, he went out and bought a license, skips my approval meeting, and comes to the first session with a 17 page character sheet.
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>>50264652
>Wife is playing instead of making sandwiches and shutting the fuck up.
>You SJWs are fucking cancer!

I believe you may be misunderstanding something.
>>
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I was playing a Deadlands game with a new-ish group that I'd never played with before. I was friends with one of the other players, and pretty quickly hit it off with the GM too. We all got along pretty well except for That Guy who wanted to play a half-Japanese female samurai in a game set in the American West.

After that idea got veto'd he decided to play a half-Japanese mad scientist instead because being half-Japanese was like the one issue he was unwilling to budge on for some reason.

Come game day we are all gathering for a pre-game call on Roll20, which defaults to having your mic and cam turned on when you join the room for some retarded reason. What we're greeted with is the sound of this guy masturbating because he thinks no else can hear him. Someone sent him a text message on Skype saying 'Hey dude your mic is on' and he replied 'no it isn't AND WENT BACK TO MASTURBATING.

For some reason we actually continued with the game, but this guy proved to be such an annoying, spotlight-hogging autist that everyone just kind of lost the will to keep playing halfway through and quit. We never planned another session.
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>>50264869
I tell him to show me what he did. He used two "house rules," (equipment as gear, and free equipment) to give himself close to 300pp. I told him to leave, and come back to build a character with my supervision. I ran a good session with the rest of the guys, who were genuinely having fun.

He shows up the next week with a 12 page sheet, abusing custom item crafting, I think. I tell him he needs to make it with me there, and he looks me in the eye, crying.

"I guess my character will just have to suck, wont she?"

He didnt even abuse those extra pp. He just had multiple instances of blast. Anyways, I didnt fight him. I just ended up leaving. I started making excuses, scheduling things during the game.

I dropped out, and those guys didnt have any long sticking campaigns after that.
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>>50257747
Y-yes it does, lad
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>>50264946
>That Guy who wanted to play a half-Japanese female samurai in a game set in the American West

The worst thing here is if you removed the "half" part and played her as an actual female samurai rather than an anime character it'd probably be an interesting setup.
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>>50260836
Anon you are that guy. Of course this story probably isn't even true, but if it is you are 100% in the wrong.
>>
>>50260408
>>50260298
Nah I understand what he's saying. The GM "writes" the story and the players rewrite it then the GM adjusts it between sessions. You always look ahead as a GM and envision the future. Vision is the most important part of a writer. As long as you don't keep shoving your plot points in their faces and make their actions and choices feel useless, it is fine.

I consider the campaign I am running to be a "magnum opus" of sorts and it has gone so far off the rails I don't even remember where the rails were supposed to be.
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>>50264225
Please just stop feeding him you autistic shits
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>>50264225
Because we all know second hand swearing causes cancer and will destroy your drywall and flooring, right?
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>>50260126
Is your last name Fiffick?
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>>50265021
>Japanese samurai
>Wild west

>Not playing a Chinaman spear wielder/shaolin monk
Anon pls, pls.
>>
>>50265663
That's also a good build, obviously, but "Chinaman in the Wild West" is also done pretty often. On the other hand, how many examples of "Samurai self-exiled from Japan after the Meiji Restoration and samurai ban" are you familiar with?
>>
>>50264431
>I've always found cursing to be a good barometer of someone's intelligence. The stupid person has to use curse words in substitution of other words since they don't have the proper vocabulary to express themselves.
Yes, 'tis such a shame that the poor fools have such limited word choice and must resort to such crass language to get their point across. It truly is a shame that there are so few of us truly eloquent and genteel men like ourselves must see such boorish behavior day to day instead of truly great and noble specification by gentlemen such as ourselves.
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>>50265718
Well, I suppose that's fair enough. I just like Chinese martial arts more than I care for roleplaying good Bushido.
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>>50264706
It's a truth that some players both want and need to be railroaded to an extent. It's actually kind of fun to GM them when that happens, means you get to go for more "cinematic" moments (so yes, getting closer to wanking your novel).

Players who don't want or need railroading are fine. Players who do want and need railroading are fine. Players who hate railroading but are too stupid or undriven enough to make do without it are fucking cancer.
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>>50256593
>Wanting to raise your kids to be polite is a bad thing

Neither is wanting to get a photo of bigfoot.

But these desires aren't worthy of respect from other people just because they aren't bad. It's mostly harmless nonsense, but nonsense it remains.
>>
>>50265771
Personally? Same.
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>>50265877
If you're too bullheaded to comply with the minutest of host requests for a few hours every week, how do you function in society? Society is filled with otherwise pointless rituals that people follow because they are a formal sign of respect to those around us.
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>>50266119
>If you're too bullheaded to comply with the minutest of host requests for a few hours every week, how do you function in society?

Oh I would totally comply. But it would definitely just be because it's their house, not because 'raising children to be polite' is a thing.
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>>50266172
Ok, I agree with that. Politeness shouldn't be the goal.
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>>50257383
I wonder if he ever bothered refilling the SWIGGED-UPON HIP FLASK, or if it actually was some powerful artifact that would constantly refill itself. Possibly by teleporting all alcohol drunk back into flask, which would explain why his character was constantly TAKING A SWIG FROM HIS HIP FLASK to keep it down.
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>>50265021
Red Sun was a pretty good Western.
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>>50262776
That spoiler is truth
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>>50262776
It's coasters all over again. This isn't anything new with /tg/.
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>>50262776
I'm under the assumption it's just one guy shitposting. I just try to ignore them all because they are literally of autistic levels of not understanding how social structures work. So it's either maximum trolling, or an actual autist. You will not have a reasonable argument with either.
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