Forgotten Realms General? Forgotten Realms General

>>50240632
Forgotten Realms a shit.

Why not Eberron General instead?

>>50240885
Eberron is cool too, but deals in a different fantasy genre than the Forgotten Realms.

>>50241003
FR is the genre of gamers-turned writers "improving" on Tolkien by injecting it with the magical world of their old Player-characters.

It's way way way too over-fluffed.

>>50241047
Some designers working on FR were shit, but you can't fault some of the products coming out of the line. The Deities line for example.

>>50241047
The fluff was well written, compared to the oversaturation of mechanics in 3e and beyond

>>50242053
I was always partial to the Volo's Guides.

Volo's Guide to All Things Magical was fantastic.

Spellplague, yeah?

>>50242175
Good shit, I liked it. Despite it being the Fall of Netheril v2.
The consolidation of deities was fucking retarded though.

>>50242394
>>50242175
Wasn't a fan mostly because they blew up all the cool shit. Maztica, for example.

And then did things like "oh, it flows around large concentrations of magic" (explaining why Waterdeep didn't explode), and then went on to say "but Halruaa blew up" when Halruaa is probably the most magically concentrated place in the setting.

>>50242483
Yeah, that was retarded. They had really shit ideas that were implementated.

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>>50242132
>Volo's Guide to All Things Magical was fantastic.
Was it? I'll have to read that one.

>>50240632
No thanks OP. Those are realms I generally try to forget about

>>50243049
Volo's is generally good. Also get Volo's Guide to Monsters.


>>50243081
No idea what Realms op is even referring to.

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>>50240632
I just wrote a short story set in the Forgotten Realms. My character died this past Sunday, but the death offered up a chance to explore a side of her that I otherwise wouldn't be able to.

I guess this is as good a place as any to post it.

>>50243416
Did you name yourself after the goddess?

>>50243647
Not to my knowledge...is there a goddess named Iliira? Or Avaunya? Never heard of them if there is.

>>50243699
I don't know exactly what that anon's referring to, but there's a FR goddess called Lliira.

>>50243699
Yeah, iirc Lliira is the goddes of joy, festivities, happiness, dancing.


Good story.

Speaking of which, favorite gods?

>>50243764 >>50243766
Oh, right, her! I forgot about her.

No, the name's similarity is a coincidence; I have no idea where I came up with the name Iliira, though I know that I hadn't heard of Lliira yet. Iliira started as my Baldur's Gate character in the late 90s (though only recently have I gotten a chance to play her in PnP), and the only gods I knew of at the time were the ones mentioned in original BG. I can't remember Lliira being mentioned at all in the original BG, and if she was, it was very, very obscure.

>>50243876
Tymora and Besheba both, as I like the good luck/bad luck dichotomy.

Bhaal, due to a childhood love of Baldur's Gate.

Umberlee, because I like that she doesn't even pretend to not be a bitch.

The entire Mulhorandi pantheon, because I like Egypt.

>>50243939
Bhaal was great, it's good he's coming back.

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I must admit the shalarin are strangely attractive for some reason..

>>50244566
Nein.

>>50244566
>>50244651
They basically are the perfect mix between sea elves and sahuagins. They also have the most advanced civilization among undersea races, if my memory serves me right..

>>50244746
Nah, sea elves or tritons is where it's at, brah.

>>50244838
Tritons confuse me. In the Monster Manual they are described as having the lower part of their bodies ending in a fish tail (which would basically make them no different from the merfolk), yet their illusration blatantly expose two scaly legs.

>>50245179
Which MM? Weren't tritons always bipedal with leg fins and the merfolk were the ones with the fish tails?

>>50245599
3.5

>>50240632
The forgotten realms should stay forgotten

>>50240632
Was a good setting up until WotC started aggressively trying to use it to promote their products. And without hiring someone and telling them, "Look, you've got to unify this setting somehow. Dozens of independent authors have been adding onto this thing over the years and it's become a patchwork monstrosity with too many low level characters in some places and too many high level characters in others. Fix it."

The first actually good campaign I ever played in was Forgotten Realms.

>>50245623
Thanks brah.

Oh, had a look. Finned legs, man, not fish tails.

>>50245730
I told you. D&D makes them too vague and inconsistent.

>>50245771
>D&D makes them too vague and inconsistent.
>inconsistent
Tritons have had finned legs ever since they were introduced, what's inconsistent about that?

>>50245771
It literally says in their description: this being is roughly human-sized. Its lower half ends in two finned legs, while its torso, head and arms are human.

Legs not tail. Else the description would have spelled out a tail. That's not vague at all. Their illustration matches that description perfectly.

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>>50245782
Some descriptions here and there giving them actual fish tails.

>>50245797
I'm pretty sure I read fish tail. Maybe it was a mistake in the translation of the MM to my language, I don'know.

>>50245892
Yeah, that could be a mistranslation, especially if the translator is shit.

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>>50240885
>>50240877
>OP opens a Thread avout FR
>WOW LET ME TELL YOU HOW MUCH SHIT THING I DONT LIKE IS
>WOW IN THIS THREAD ABOUT X WHY ARENT WE TALKING ABOUT Y INSTEAD

/tg/ is literally turning into /v/.2 where autists shit up a thread completely because they dont like. Jesus fucking christ. I have been here too long.

>>50243049
>>50243157
>>50242132
I liked all of Volo´s Guides because they were choke full of fluff and plothooks.
Aside from that they also had campaign setting books not only for different regions but also for like more or less know cities and towns like Baldurs Gate, Daggerford, Neverwinter, Calimport, etc etc. that had TONS of NPCs and shit.

>>50243939
Talos would like to have a word with you.

Fuck the retard who suggested he was Gruumsh. Completely fuck that.

>>50246176
Just ignore the fuckers, mang.

>>50243876
I liked Cyric when he still was insane in AD&D since he was basically the evil god of doing it for the Lulz.

Generally I noticed FR lacks a decent evil deity of fucking around with people because you can.

I guess I always liked the concept of Ilmater and Eldath though for sooe reason the novels usually portrayed followers of both as batshit insane.

>>50246779
Have to agree, Cyric is best deity.

The followers of Eldath are absolutely retarded though, they basically invite death to themselves.

Followers of Ilmater are basically masochists but are good aligned.

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The FR Deities line had the best illustrations bar none.

>>50247630
Great books, but the classes are overpowered as fuck. I prefer the fluff and spells from them with Warriors & Priests kits, because the kits were nicely flavored and mostly balanced.

>>50247630
>tfw Mystra
I'd solve those mysteries.

>>50247671
What did you think of the deity avatars? A nice addition to the supplements or mostly superfluous?

Yeah, didn't really bother with the class myself.

>>50247914
>>50247914
Ace choice brah.

>>50240632
Is there a way to get maps for all of Thay's main cities?

There's already a hi-res map of Thay, but I'm looking for something more specific, like a map of Bezantur or Eltabbar or shit.

>>50248465
What edition, man? There's a few pdf readers where you can pull the images off of the pages. You might like to try to hunt down Unapproachable East.

>>50248929
Any edition's good, is that tome from 2e or 1e?

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>>50248973
3e/3.5e. Do you have the snipping tool, because you can crib them that way.
I'm not sure if Thay's main cities get maps dedicated to them though. https://www.google.com.au/search?q=maps+of+the+cities+of+thay&client=firefox-b&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiquJDjjqvQAhXIJZQKHXMxApEQ_AUICCgB&biw=1366&bih=631#imgrc=QlxoVbYzNVWobM%3A

>>50248465
>>50249043
Hmm, seems like the only maps are of Bezantur unfortunately.

>>50247630

When it comes to gods I always like Amaunator/Lathander and the Three-Faced Sun "heresy".

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>>50249346
Lathander is remarkably based, but he's also a colossal dick.

Is the Moradin (and other racial deities) in the Forgotten Realms the same Moradin that the other settings have? Can a god be in two settings at once?

>>50249526
Yes, it's the same Moradin.

Multi-setting deities, on entering Toril's sphere, have to agree to certain stipulations that Ao sets on their ability to affect matters within Realmspace, as well as portfolio limitations (i.e. can't be more than a demipower if you have the same portfolio as a full deity).

So a god, let's say Bahamut, can be an extremely powerful deity outside Realmspace, but as soon as he steps within, he has to play by Ao's rules in how much influence and power he possesses, meaning he might be reverted back to a lesser deity, or even a demipower, while acting within Realmspace.

The Dwarf and Elf pantheons don't seem to have that sort of power differential for the most part, and are fairly uniform across the multiverse, though there's also Angarradh (however you spell it), who on Toril is a fusion of three deities, but beyond Toril functionally doesn't exist at all.

>>50249617
Cool. I asked because the Book of Exalted Deeds had a section on really minor gods of really Good concepts, and one of them is basically Ilmater. Also, I really want to play a cleric of Moradin who got sent to the FR from Greyhawk or somewhere in a magical accident, and hasn't realized he's on another plane.

>>50249816
>in a magical accident

You mean a spelljammer accident.

>>50249816
Some gods spread themselves over multiple spheres, others prefer to concentrate on a single sphere. Shar, for example, is a fully single-sphere goddess. Moradin, Tyr, Bahamut (he also goes by Marduk in Realmspace), Tiamat, Corellon, Lolth (to an extent), are multispheric deities.

Some single-sphere deities also interact with deities from other spheres. Mystra is a very good friend of Wee Jas, and I think Waukeen used to hang out with a couple of the gods from Aebrynis (Birthright).

Gods have also done favours for other gods if they have a follower who somehow lands on a Prime world that they don't have influence on, but a god they know and are allies with has a church there. So the allied god might feed the follower with power if they're a cleric, or generally watch over them as a favour, in expectation that they get the same from their ally on other worlds.

>>50249444
>posts Lathander taking down a rogue archmage
>doesn't post the Dawn Cataclysm

Nigga, you done fucked up. It's the single biggest example of Lathander fuckery there is, considering it led to the death of several gods and several knock-on effects in the shape of mortal mass disasters and cataclysms.

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>>50247630
Waukeen's blingy priest never fails to make me smile. You're serving the goddess of wealth, why NOT pull out the cloth-of-gold and the ermine for your kit.

Also check out Shar's priestess in the sensible "cute art teacher" clothes staring daggers at the fabulous Selunite. It's like the artist wanted a catfight to happen.

>>50243876
Lliira. For a deity to worship, you can't go with the one who's the goddess of fun.

>>50247630
>that priestess
Loviatar is basically the goddess of S&M, right?

>>50250513
Less S&M, more like people such as torturers and sadists, if I remember F&A correctly.

It's funny that very few evil clerics go for the sexy look aside from Loviatar's ones. Auril's priestess wears a princess ballgown and a cheap hammer from B&Q, Beshaba's shows a little leg and Umberlee's has a tight jumpsuit, but the rest (especially Shar's and Iyachtu Xvim's) are downright prudish compared to, say, Lathander's, Sune's and Mystra's.

Also I want that sweet hat the beholder cultist wears.

How do you guys come up with ideas for a Forgotten Realms campaign?

Do you come up with a history and get on drawing the maps and writing the scenarios or do you start with a big dungeon and build off from there or you just start with a city and let everything come up at the table in a more sandbox-y style?

My campaign is taking place in it right now, lots of fun for us.
I only recently got into it but godDAMN are the old 2e books awesome resources.
WotC basically ruined the Realms almost, I can't even believe how much.

>>50250634
So, just the goddess of S, then.

Lolth's priestesses tend to go for that look too, if I recall correctly.

>>50250658
I actually base it more off the characters that the PC's make themselves and then use FR as the backdrop for their adventures.
So far our group has been awesome about that sort of thing, making interesting story-driven characters.

>>50251149
How do you deal with making dungeons and coming up with maps and NPCs for the cities they visit or the quests they become involved with?

>>50248174
I find the avatars totally superfluous, because I have never had any reason to use them. I ignore the Spellplague and most FR NPCs of note like Elminster or other crap. But I particularly liked the FR sourcebook on demihuman deities, for its description of the clergy. All the clergy fluff is spectacular in those books, though. It's just the classes were too tailored to the priest's handbook way of creating specialist priests, rather than the kit method. And that's not super bad as long as you're using the handbooks. But I like to limit classes to the PhB + the kit books and, if you throw in the religion series priest classes with PhB+kits, balance is a joke--those priests can whoop a standard fighter whose fluff gives him a +1 versus bears, or whatever.

>>50251314
A lot of major cities in Faerun HAVE simple maps dating back to second edition, and for dungeons I just wing it or design it in a non-gamey fashion.

A trick to designing memorable dungeons is to NOT treat it like a board game with traps and rewards and secret doors and shit; dungeons are or were once a building filled with actual people that had actual reasons for being there, thus creating a interlocked set of tiles and rooms filled with traps and monsters and shit basically only work with dungeons that are explicitly designed to be death traps for adventures like Undermountain, so I design a dungeon by designing an actual facility and THEN filling it with traps.

Still, a dungeon is nice but they don't make memorable games by themselves unless there's nothing else about the game that's memorable in the long-term; think more flexibly and not in rigid gaming fashions. Even if the rules to D&D are very gamey you don't necessarily need to think in the straight lines it seems to suggest that you should think in.

>>50252795
I use the clergies of faiths fairly often but definitely not the gods themselves; if you wanna know what a god thinks you gotta ask their priesthood and there's often considerable variation even in that.

>>50249617
>>50250067
This makes the 3e confined Realms with their own planes all the more nonsensical and bizarre. That was a legitimately retarded decision.

>>50250686
Yeah, it was downright criminal how they basically wasted so much of the fantastic lore. Here's hoping the 5e team might do it some justice.

>>50253956
The Storm King's Wrath actually makes use of some old 2e shit; the Ring of Winter is mentioned (and will almost certainly be the focus of the next major Adventure), and TWO of the Great Wyrms of the North show up in person, including Klauth himself!

>>50250658
Torrent the TSR complete D&D. Start perusing them until something catches your eye. Then start reading about it. You'll have a game in mind by the time you finish. Don't be afraid to change anything and everything that does not suit your interests, particularly the NPCs--always disregard the stats of NPCs in anything connected to Forgotten Realms. It is just fucking littered with people who are on a demi-god power level. That backwoods town of 400 in the middle of nowhere? Yeah: the mayor is a level 17 paladin.

>>50254338
If torrent is too slow or doesn't work, Mega that gloriousness.

>>50252795
>>50253679
I'm the opposite of that, seeing the stats of the gods were great.

>>50254786
It's neat fluff, for sure. I've just never found it to contribute mechanically to a game I've run or played.

>>50254817
Exactly.
Nice to know, not useful in-game. Even as fluff, because it's not fluff, it's crunch.

>>50254896
But is it really crunch if it's just there for completionist sake? If the rules are meant solely to provide background info, is it still crunch?

>>50255433
It's not useful backround info because they weren't using it in fluff to determine who "wins" fights, as that was determined by the needs of the plot.

Therefore it was rules for players, as if it's not fluff for backround stories or novels and it's not going to be used by any players then it really just takes up space to fill up space.

>>50254817
>>50254896
>>50255433
>>50255452
I find it to be excellent source material and while I haven't specifically used them as a part of my games, I do like looking at the stats.

They've been used somewhat to determine who wins in fluff, the trouncing of Sammaster by Lathander was driven both by plot advancement and their stats.

>>50255433
>>50255452
It's just right, even for completionists sake, as each god has fluff-and-portfolio-driven powers they can bring to bear.

>>50241047
Also every 3rd NPC is at the level PCs end their campaign at.
Really makes your own character feel pointless or redundant.

>>50255795
Kek. Though the PCs weren't really meant to meet the movers and shakers, only as quest givers or footnotes in their adventures. Kinda like what BG did.

>>50255795
That anon is incorrect. FR has nothing to do with literature. It's a game setting, and has some novels published on the level of low-quality summer-reads, or high-quality fan-fics. It is nonsense to pretend it tried to do anything vaguely resembling high literature.

And you don't use the NPCs from the fluff. No one does, ever, unless running a published module containing them as background or support characters.

>>50255795
>>50255881

Is that necessarily bad? Like, I come at this as a Shadowrun player. You don't expect to meet Lofwyr or Fastjack or megacorporate CEOs, because you're out in the street dodging bullets and they're in their plasteel towers lording over you, or in the middle case making way more money than you doing way more high-end runs. Faerun seems to just have the same thing going on as a fantasy setting. You are not a big fish and that's ok.

>>50256900
It's a genre difference. Being the little guy is part of the feel of Shadowrun. It's what it tries to do. Becoming the mythical heroes is the game you're looking for, from D&D, same way that you're looking to feel like the little guy from Shadowrun. If you wanted to evoke the feel of Shadowrun, you'd play it. But when you play D&D, you kinda want that, instead.

If all RPGs just did the same thing, we wouldn't need more than one and GURPS would magically not be crap.

>>50256900
>>50256973
What about 5e where it's even lower powered?

>>50254183
Old Snarl himself?

>>50257286
Dunno. I don't care at all about non-TSR D&D.

What's the status of Psionics in Abil-Toril? Does it even exist?

>>50257590
I think it must, because mindflayers are a mayor underdark thing.

>>50256973
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.

For my part, I prefer that my world be large and for a lot of stuff to be happening in it - not all of it level appropriate.

>Becoming the mythical heroes

But that's the thing - you can DO that still. I remember playing Baldur's Gate. You meet Elminster at level 1 and he's literally unkillable. But then cut to Throne of Bhaal, and your character is playing at the same level as Elminster, and can even end the game MORE powerful than him and his pointy hat.

>>50257590
It was always there, but never prominent. 2e had Dark Sun for psionics, so it never got any coverage in Faerun, but was never not-present. Psionics were just optional to most campaigns, so it existed if your DM wanted to include it and didn't if he or she didn't want to. The exception was the Underdark stuff, where it existed by default and got some coverage in the Menzoberranzan campaign stuff.

>>50257669
>Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
Agreed.

>>50257590
>>50257639
>>50257683
Yeah, there's also the House Oblodra (sp?) from Menzoberranzan.

>>50257819
Not to mention Realmspace and didn't Kara-Tur have psionics? Don't remember any in Zakhara, though.

But yeah: was just optional to the extent that it wasn't written in.

>>50257590
Yes, it's called the "Inner Art" versus just "Art" and it absolutely exists, though primarily in the Underdark (Illithid). The big psionic civilisation got wiped out a couple thousand years ago, their descendants spread the gene around though.

Hello /frg/, I've got a question for the experts hereabouts.

I'm starting a large campaign set in Tethyr circa 1371 DR, specifically in Riatavin, and can find surprisingly little information about the nation or the city. I was wondering, do any of you have any useful Tethyrian resources that you know of?

>>50259268
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Tethyr

That plus whatever its sources are.

>>50259542
This advice is shit. That wiki goes off 3e sources. Meaning it is terrible garbage, and you should feel retarded for ever relying on it to be accurate in any way.

Even if the WotC version of Forgotten Realms wasn't just an awful, disgusting piece of total and completely-worthless shit, 1371 predates anything published after 2e.

The sourcebook for Tethyr is Lands of Intrigue. Here is the link: http://shimeji777.buzama.com/Game/Alice/Alice.html

>>50259712
Nope! That's a link to a (disappointing) hentai game I copied off /d/. Let's try this link instead:

https://dnd.rem.uz/Advanced%20D%26D%20(unsorted)/AD%26D%20Accessory%20-%20FR%20-%20Lands%20of%20Intrigue.pdf

Does anyone have a good PDF to explain in detail the various deities and their clergy?

>>50259268
There's an excellent boxed set called the Lands of Intrigue which details the nations comprised of that title.
Amn, Calimshan and Tethyr each have an entire sourcebook dedicated to them, and there's an additional monstrous supplement.

Try to find it in the TSR trove posted in the Share threads.

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>>50257669
>and your character is playing at the same level as Elminster, and can even end the game MORE powerful than him and his pointy hat.

I've never seen an incarnation of Elminster through the editions that the players could approach in power level.
He was either a "half the classes in the book/maxed wizard/psionic master" or a "Epic level Character in multiple classes/psion" or just plain deformed the rules of the game entirely, with his own custom skills/contingencies.

>>50259712
>Meaning it is terrible garbage

Oh, it's fine, it's just not what you like.

>>50259786
Aside from the main campaign settings, there are four books that you are looking for. Three of these are regarded as some of the best source material ever published for FR. The other kinda ignored (but I that I prefer the kits for over the specialist classes)

The three that are excellent are:
Faiths & Avatars
Powers & Pantheons
Demihuman Deities

Those three are a series. The standalone, which provides completely different interpretations, is:
Warriors and Priests of the Realms

>>50259799
Linked here: >>50259731

>>50259786
Try Faiths and Avatars, Faiths and Pantheons, and Demihuman Deities line of supplements. They're 2e and can be found in the TSR trove posted in the Share threads.

Faiths and Pantheons is alright but nowhere near as excellent as the above 2e products; feast your eyes on so much flavor, but you're probably need a magnifying glass because they crammed so much in.

>>50259823
Well no, it isn't. Faerun in 2e is vastly superior and better built than in 3e, with a massive body of supplements to draw from. That piece of shit wiki limits most of itself to two particularly-shitty books.

>>50259712
>>50259828
Damn, ninja'd on both accounts.

>>50243876

ILLMATER

>>50259874
I love Damara, so I gotta agree with you. My runner up is Auril.

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>>50259810
The last edition Elminster was statted in he was a lvl 35 epic character with +10 Con from Chosen of Mystra benny, spell immunities, and immunity to random shit like Disintegration and Poison and the like.

He soloed his way through the 9 Hells while nerfed.

>>50259712
>>50259828
More information in that other anon's post.

>>50259268
>>50259712
>>50259799
Also try Empire of the Sands.

>>50259874
Ilmater is a goddamn masochist.

>>50259912
To be fair, the demon princes and archdevils/LotN in 3.xe were absolute chumps.

>>50259842
>with a massive body of supplements to draw from

...except that 3e launches directly off of and takes place in the same continuity as 2e, meaning that 3e has all of 2e's stuff to draw on AND the additional stuff published for 3e without really invalidating any of the previous stuff other than by advancing the timeline by a a few years, meaning that 3e's body of supplements is even more massive than 2e's.

>>50259912
He was, however, hardly an insurmountable challenge for a competently built epic level party, and nothing was stopping players from ascending to his playing field. He wasn't Caine, is my point; we had stats for him and the stats were more than just "you lose".

And he's usually busy dealing with his own shit anyway. Like I said, I like worlds where the players, while still the stars, are nevertheless not the only people doing things in them. Shit happens, not all of it conveniently nearby for the players to tackle, and not all of it appropriately leveled for them, either.

Generally I prefer drive-by cameos rather than questgivers, i.e., Drizzt's appearance in the first Baldur's Gate where you just help him fight some gnolls, say hi, and then continue on your way while he goes off to deal with his own stuff.

>>50260009
You missed a few important parts:
A) That wiki relies on 3e sources and novels--not 2e sources
B) You are responding to a comment about why the wiki is bad, with the fact that 3e is bad being an aside
C) The poster who was looking for info and wa referred to the wiki is setting his game in 1371
D) 1371 is pre-3e, so the wiki (even if it didn't prefer the shittier sources) is inaccurate, because 3e begins in 1372

>>50260009
>He wasn't Caine, is my point; we had stats for him and the stats were more than just "you lose".

We are talking about the same guy who IF you overcame him, would be ublockably contingencied by his own Name Spell to another plane, hit with a crapton of recovery magic, and a summons sent out to his Epic level mates?
OK.

All the named chars were designed poorly, even the deity entries in Faiths and Pantheons and Deities and Demigods, and especially the entries in the FRCS where Elminster's 3e stats were located.
He was updated for the Epic Level Handbook, but his entry was still shit.

>>50259810
He admits in ToB that he wouldn't want to have to fight you by that point.

>>50260134
To be fair, other high level characters would be the same. Fighting Elminster isn't just about him, it's about all the allies he can call on for help if he needs to.

>>50260510
Good luck taking him on + the Seven Sisters and the other Chosen.

Actually, fuck Mystra's Chosen. They're blatant Mary Sues.

I must be weird because I liked the god avatar stats and pitting them against others of their ilk and monsters.

>>50261309
>Good luck taking him on + the Seven Sisters and the other Chosen.
Well, that's kind of the point.

They're a bunch of allies who have explicitly set contingencies so that they can back each other up if they get attacked. Don't adventuring parties do the exact same thing if they can? Or a cleric from Cormyr going to a temple of his god in Waterdeep and being able to expect to get assistance? Or the Harpers backing each other up on assignments? Or when wizards summon/bind/make deals with powerful outsiders to get help if they need it?

The only real difference is that Mystra's Chosen are a lot more powerful than the average individual, but they're still friends and allies, and more to the point they're allies who're trusted to keep safe their deity's divine essence. Of course one of them is going to come and help another if that essence might be at risk. Especially when they've also known that other person for centuries.

That being said, they also do a shitload of Mystra's dirty work, ranging from simple theft all the way up to assassination if it furthers the spread of magic, and it was recently confirmed that at least some of them are virtually parasites, taking the bodies of others when their own burn out from carrying divine essence.

>>50259912
Actually, he spent the entirety of that book except for a couple of pages at the start being turned into a drooling retard by an outcast archdevil/unique balor thing.

Halaster and the Simbul had to come and pull his ass out of the fire.

>>50261936
It was always weird how the Twisted Rune were able to capture Halaster.

>>50262744
They got really, really lucky, and were prepped. One of the Twisted Rune members on that job was Khelben's former student and then-equal, and nearly as strong as Halaster, and the other was a mind flayer lich.

They also blew through multiple rings of wish to do it, so it won't be easily replicable, assuming Halaster didn't close whatever holes in his defenses they might have exploited.

>>50262816
Wasn't Halaster sequestered in Undermountain though?
He should've been unbreachable.

>>50262941
>>50262816
Even if wish magic was used.

>>50262941
>>50262954
Multiple wishes was enough to break in once, by surprise.

>>50260134
> would be ublockably contingencied

Three words: dead magic zone (which were comparatively common back in 3e). That explicitly cockblocks all magic, no exceptions.

Fighting Elminster isn't just something you do while on your way to pick him up; you need to plan for that kind of stuff. Part of that would involve luring him to a dead magic zone and keeping him there. Or alternatively getting your hands on a stone that projects a dead magic field, like what Drizzt and Bruenor ultimately used to kill Matron Mother Baenre.

>>50263347
>Part of that would involve luring him to a dead magic zone and keeping him there.
That's impossible.

>An individual also can choose to emit the silver fire in the shape of a cloud that fills a cone-shaped area. This silver cloud causes no damage but banishes dead magic areas forever by restoring their connection with the Goddess of All Magic.

Part of the job of Mystra's Chosen is to restore magic to where it may have been removed or sent wild (wild magic zones). You aren't going to snag any of them with a dead magic zone tactic, because they can immediately silver fire their way out of it and escape.

>>50263347
>>50263425
Best way to do it is honestly just completely overwhelming power, as much as you can as fast as you can, preferably from multiple different people all at once. It worked on Laeral in the Death Masks novel, and reduced her to a spirit until she was able to take a new body.

Also figure out what magic Elminster can't use, because Mystra explicitly programmed in some weaknesses to her Chosen after the Sundering (technically all wizards, but Chosen as well). For example, they can't use mind-domination or mind-reading magic with any great efficiency, because they get hit with blinding pain when they try it. Mystra doesn't want them just forcing their way any more.

>>50263347
>>50263347
Is it true a deity just flatout ignores dead magic zones because they're mortal magic?
I seem to recall them able to drop down antimagic fields and having their own magic work normally. Good times.

>>50263702
Deities ignore antimagic fields, it's written into the text of the spell in basically every edition of the game that I can reasonably reach right now. For example, 5E:

>Spells and other magical effects, except those created by an artifact or a deity, are suppressed in the sphere and can’t protrude into it.

>>50263595
What happened to Laeral?

>>50263425
>>An individual also can choose to emit the silver fire in the shape of a cloud that fills a cone-shaped area.

Silver fire is a Supernatural ability according to its description in the FRCS. This means that it doesn't function inside of an antimagic field or dead magic zone. The effect of the silver fire to restore the dead magic zone, therefore, must originate from outside of it. If Elminster suddenly finds himself within one for some reason (perhaps via the dead magic stone I mentioned; or being caught unawares and shoved inside an extant zone (Mystra explicitly doesn't like using silver fire to restore dead magic zones except in emergencies since it drains the Weave), or something), silver fire will not avail him.

Like I said: it would take planning, but he is not untouchable by any means.

>>50263916
Her body was blown up and she was turned into a "Weave-ghost" until she could move into a new one. Elminster lost his body as well, and had to steal somebody else's. In fairness, that other person was brain dead at the time anyway from a mind flayer, so it wasn't as if he was killing the guy.

>>50264033
It works from inside dead magic in setting info because the silver fire is being carried inside them, just not mechanically in 3rd's FRCS. The Scouring of Shadowdale module had a couple of extra uses of silver fire included though, and that included the ability to directly cast inside a dead magic zone.

>>50264033
>Mystra explicitly doesn't like using silver fire to restore dead magic zones except in emergencies since it drains the Weave
>somebody trying to gank one of her servants and potentially steal her divine essence from them doesn't qualify as an emergency

>>50260045
woah dude get a life

>>50259731
Many thanks for this, it's just what I was looking for.

>>50264633
Lands of Intrigue is absolutely fantastic. If you like that corner of Faerun, I can also recommend Empires of the Shining Sea (Calimshan) and Calimport (exactly what it says on the tin).

>>50266239
I like Amn a great deal, not so much Calimshan (if I wanted Arabian Nights, I'd move to Zakhara).

My players, somehow, decided they liked Tethyr more than Damara (they had two other choices too, the Tashalar and Chessenta), so that's where the campaign is going to take place now. Honestly, I'm a little sad about it, since I really love Damara/Vassa/Sossal, that whole region really. I also don't know as much about Tethyr really, thus my need for better resources. I appreciate the pointer to Lands of Intrigue - Tethyr, it's basically exactly what I needed.

>>50266675
>Arabian Nights

I've always felt Calimshan was less Arabian Nights (that would indeed be Zakhara) and more Ottoman Empire/Conan's Turan. Also, if you want... another not-Arabia, there's Semphar to the east of the Inner Sea and to the west of the Great Steppe. Incidentally, the Horde box is another 2E resource I heartily recommend: put on the Silk Road theme by Kitaro, roll up a caravan and grind your way to Shou Lung avoiding horse nomads looking to loot your expensive crap, etc.

>>50267286
It has its Arabian Nights feel for me thanks to the whole genie/efreet thing going on in the Calim Desert. In any case, it never appealed to me as much as its neighbors (and Damara, my favorite little nation everyone forgets).

Does anyone actually like Mystra?

>>50266675
Check out the entire batch of the 1e and 2e FR resources then, they're excellent and much better than anything 3e or 4e had going for the Realms. They're even excellent for reading material.

whats the chance of the upcoming dnd movie is about drizzt and the underdark?

>>50268013
Do you know anything about the Bloodstone Lands?

>>50269071
More information about this please.

>>50240632
>Forgotten Realms General
I like that it's a well fleshed out setting.
I don't like that there's not a single encyclopedia (perhaps digital) with all the information. (the wiki is little more than an unfinished index).
There's not enough detail on the other time periods.
If you're reading the novels, the best ones are written by Elaine Cunningham, not Salvatore or Greenwood. Rich baker novels are okay, I quite liked city of ravens.

>>50240885
>>/ebg/

>>50242175
Spell plague a shit. Shattered Realms is a pale imitation of 2e&3e Realms.

>>50248465
>>forgotten realms interactive atlas, with the expansions.

>>50240632
>Forgotten Realms
The only D&D/PF standard setting I actually like to play in.
Unapproachable East best region.

>>50269630
>the best ones are written by Elaine Cunningham
Only her Windwalker trilogy was good (really damn good actually), the half elf novels were shit. Khelben's nephew was the only decent character.

>>50269778
Haven't read the half elf novels yet.

City of splendors was good. As was counselors and kings, and windwaker. Reading evermeet now, so far I like it.

>>50269778
>the half elf novels
Are they ones with that Harper chick? They're somewhat good, as was the Elves of Evermeet book. It was good in parts only.

>>50270306
Counselors and Kings was also alright, but only in parts.

Elaith Craulnober is best elf.

>>50264135
I was more referring to, if he was walking along and happened across a dead magic zone, that's not enough of a reason to use silver fire on it.

Then you shove him in and keep him in somehow.

>>50271888
It'd be good just to kill them off.

>>50269102
I know they exist (Vassa and Damara) but am not highly educated on them, no. I mostly like their feel (Ilmater4lyfe) and that they seem relatively untouched and so have lots of room for interpretation and growth as a DM.

>>50273197
There's a supplement by the same name, it's actually not bad as it goes into some detail about both Vaasa and Damara; the movers and shakers, the landscape, any sites, and so on.


I think there was also an adventure where you play at or level up to 100th level and get to rekt Orcus.

Have you visited the trove yet?

>>50273732
Apparently it was written by RA Salvatote.

>>50256900
I've never thought about Forgotten Realms being a cyberpunk setting before, but you make a compelling case.

>>50273964
FR works surprisingly well as a cyberpunk setting.

What can be done to have the high leveled NPCs fuck off to somewhere while the PCs act as the true heroes?

>>50275611
Make the high level NPCs the enemies. The gods know incompetent bumblers like the harpers can do as much damage as a horde of orcs, and while being self-righteous cunts too.

>>50275708
Oh man, Harpers are such smug cunts and they're as bad or even worse than the evil organizations.

>>50275923
>they're as bad or even worse than the evil organizations
Yes well they basically are an evil organization, writer's fiat is the only thing keeping them CG, and not even always, they split and get corrupted like every other day.
I mean think about it, they're an unholy mix of subversive spy network and international superpac whose explicit aim is to keep humanity divided and in a state of constrained development for the sake of the trees.
The simple fact that they strive to make human society into a copy of the elven Myth Drannor (which fell, lest we forget, so that perfect it certainly wasn't) should be enough to make every human member automatically CE.

>>50276082
Word, TSR and Wizards were able to con us all into thinking the Harpers were a goodly organisation and dedicated to the common folk and the goodly races. Not so, not so at all.

>>50273732
>I think there was also an adventure where you play at or level up to 100th level and get to rekt Orcus.
H4 - The Throne of Bloodstone.

>>50275611
Log-jam them with each others' plans. Why isn't Elminster solving this problem? Manshoon is up to stuff, and if Elminster leaves the Dales will get shrekt.

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>>50276535
And Sememmon won't get out of bed.

>>50275611
The fact that the high leveled NPCs actually have their own lives that they prefer to live, as opposed to existing solely to run around and fuck with the PCs? What do you think the average day of Elminster involves?

Because it's probably something like:

- Get up.
- Eat.
- Toilet.
- Maybe swim in the pond near his tower, he likes the pond.
- Spell memorisation.
- Checks in with his friends, chats.
- Does spell research (canonically a huge part of his time, just reading book after book to discover or rediscover old magic).
- Maybe pops off a teleport to go and look in a library for some research he's doing on a new spell, or drops off some spellbooks at a magic academy to help spread knowledge of magic.
- Check up with a couple of plots and plans he's got going right now, maybe a Harper thing. Likely nothing that needs constant oversight.
- Perhaps he really decides he wants to have Chinese food for dinner and goes to Kara-Tur to get some Chinese food.
- Checks his garden.
- Eat dinner.
- Maybe reads a book that isn't work-related, stretches out by the fire. Smokes his pipe because it's a nice pipe and he's trying out some new pipeweed that he picked up in Calimshan last year.
- Go to bed.

He is not a video game character, and it's a big world (and multiverse). No one person can even hope to keep track of everything that goes on.

Short of a supreme Holy Shit moment, I feel reasonably sure that he's not going to interfere that much, UNLESS you want to do a plotline about a direct threat to the continued existence of magic itself, which would be a) high level and b) likely feature him as an ally to high-leveled PCs against whatever group is gunning for it.

Fuck, there's an in-canon example of the hordes of not!Mongols invading Faerun, and his response when he was asked to help was basically "fuck off, I'm busy".

>>50276649
With something like that in bed with you, would you get out of bed?

>>50276665
Hell no.

And because Sememmon and Ashemmi are both mages, there's really no pressing need to get out of bed anyway.

>>50276649
Why are they so ugly?

>>50253912
>This makes the 3e confined Realms with their own planes all the more nonsensical and bizarre. That was a legitimately retarded decision.

Yup.

Just have two deities both called Corellon, with the same myths etc., there's no reason for them to be the Actual Same Person

>>50276947
In the earlier editions, multispheric powers (gods) were able to manifest aspects in different worlds, and if one aspect perished on one world, that death would not harm the sum of its parts.

>>50250634
>>50250815
That said, Loviatar sees the most worship in places like Waterdeep amongst the elite, and while they aren't true priests and priestesses they often celebrate her worship with bdsm play.

>>50277506
She's also the Finnish goddess of death and disease.

What does Ilmater receive so much love and not based Lathander?

>>50277573
Because Lathander is an ADHD moron who never finishes what he starts and for some reason continually carries through with utterly ridiculous plans that make things worse instead of better, case in point being the Dawn Cataclysm.

>>50277573
A bunch of reasons. Ilmater's part of a high-profile group. There are more sun gods than there are martyr gods. Mask of the Betrayer.

>>50276082
>>50276474
Except TSR did tell us the Harpers were bad. With them planning assassinations, actively working to keep the western heartlands and sword coast in disarray, doing their best to stop the spread of gnomish technology, and the fact that some parts of Faerun have them openly targeted as a terrorist organization.
It wasn't until late 2e and early 3e where they started asking us to ignore all of that.

>>50276657
Doesn't Elminster also regularly go to real world Germany to sample different beers to bring back for his collection?
He's a busy old fart.

>>50277655
Not that I remember, unless it's from a really old Dragon magazine issue. He does have a portal to 17th century Yellowstone National Park in his tower basement, though, for when he's in need of a hot springs vacation.

>>50277674
He also canonically occasionally goes to Ed Greenwood's house and raids his fridge.

Laeral also occasionally travels to Earth, it would seem.

http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Earth

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>>50277715
Oops, forgot the pic.

>>50277655
>>50277674
>>50277715
>>50277720
When Elminster hits the dance floor, the panties drop.

>>50277608
He dgaf and will continue to act based. He'll bitchslap evil like the little bitch it is.

>>50277715
I always liked the bits in Dragon Magazine with Elminster, Mordenkainen and the dark elf from Krynn.

>>50276082
myth drannor was the tits until it fell
and why did it fall? too many portals (ie: advanced technology), which weakens the barrier between the planes, allowing for fiends to invade
it also fell partly because it was so multiculti; all the races resented each other in the end

being a subversive spy network and planning assassinations isn't necessarily a bad thing; it depends on who your enemies are
considering their enemies are not!nazis (popular perception of nazis, not actual nazis), evil gods, monsters, and so on, I forgive them

basically, they want just the right level of civilization; enough to allow progress/growth/stability, not enough to be fuckhuge and deplete resources and pollute and become corrupt and yada yada yada

you're looking at real life with it's eternal jew influence and seeing that mirrored with the harpers
except that there are no jews in faerun (just malaugrym, yuan-ti, illithids and what not, and THOSE are what the harpers are fighting)

jew tactics turned against things that are even worse than real jews (only possible in a fantasy world)

>>50279402
>basically, they want just the right level of civilization; enough to allow progress/growth/stability, not enough to be fuckhuge and deplete resources and pollute and become corrupt and yada yada yada
Ah fuck off you primitivist luddite. High tech levels are a much better way to preserve nature than needing to tear down whole forests because your agricultural tech is too backward for high intensity soil exploitation.
And even leaving that aside, a bunch of faggy elves shan't stop the march of human high culture. Netheril shall come back again, mark my words.
Also let's not forget all the troubles and instability their plans to keep the kingdoms tiny and divided bring. A few empires would be far better from a order and security and even easier to manage as a secret superpac than a hundred petty kingdoms and city states. This stupidity is how baddies like the Zhentarim are born. This stupidity is why everytime the Uthgards or the not!mongols unite there's no reliable way to stop them without half a region getting razed down before it can present a united front against the invader.
Face it anon, the Harpers are just fucking shit. Even that ass Khelben noticed.

>>50279580
>A few empires would be far better from a order and security
I'd rather be a fucking hunter/gatherer than a slave in rome or anybody in a communist country and a worker at a factory/fast food restaraunt

yeah, computers are cool and shit, but cmon

Guns in Faerun.

>>50277674
Wasn't his Yellowstone portal on one of the other planets?

>>50281186
Place an order in Lantan or if you want bigger booms, in Thay (who have sold half-physical/half-magical "Thayvian bombards" to the Inner Sea pirates).

>>50281232
What if my game takes place 5 years after Forgotten Realms Adventures?

>>50281327
IIRC FRA stated that five years after the Time of Troubles big armourers carried firearms? But if you want to buy in bulk, order straight from the source. The Gond-botherers of Lantan should set you up pretty decently. If memory serves, they sold guns to that mercenary regiment who conquered Maztica.

>>50281475
That is true, I was mostly wondering if there would be someone who rages about guns in D&D.
But it seems that once the europeans start going to sleep the FR thread loses posters as well.

>>50282200
I'm an American but I'm busy. Keepin an eye on the thread though.

>>50276657

So you are saying the best moment to kill him is while he is taking a shit or swimming on the morning?

Make Netheril Great Again.

>>50283217
I would love to, as that would require removing that god awful AD&D supplement written for it where the lead author was being passive aggressive as fuck because TSR refused to give him his own setting to write shit for.

He also named half of the shit and ideas from a band he really liked at the time, making it not at all match the Realms in terms of style. I wish I could say I have no idea why TSR published it anyway, but I am forced to assume it was because TSR was infamous for saying quantity over quality.

>>50283310
Wait, I've heard rumors about this. Could you go into more info, brah?

>>50283414
I don't have the full details on me, and I'm not going to try to parse the candlekeep forums right now, but the supplement was written by Dale 'Slade' Henson, who is infamous for being one of the worst if not THE WORST of the RPG writers at the time, with god awful adventures, and terrible fluff that often completely ignored whatever setting he was writing for.
Generally he got work because he had high output due to his nature of not giving a fuck. While this sometimes made for cool set pieces within his adventurers, more often than not it led to complete detachment and wrecking of previously established lore.

>>50283514
Thanks brah. That's hilarious and pretty fucking sad, I think his name was also quite prominent in a couple of the older supplements as well.
His shit isn't what the paying public is paying for.
Did he actually git gud or nah?

>>50283310
>TSR was infamous for saying quantity over quality
We called it T$R for a reason.

>>50283943
>>50283310
>TSR was infamous for saying quantity over quality
Wasn't that because that repugnant CEO was screwing them into the ground?

>>50283978
Probably, but seriously, T$R had some bad times. There's a strong reason they're gone now. i kinda miss them sometimes

>>50283978
Terrible management and D&D go together like blacks in whites. It seems like wherever the property goes, things get fucked.

>>50284012
> i kinda miss them sometimes
You and me both, brah. When they were on their game which was actually often, their products were amazing but when they excreted shit they were the fucking worst.

>>50284051
I topkek'd.

>>50243876
Valkur, there's little to know information about him anywhere. But what is there makes him look like the broest of bros.

>>50276686
>>50276665
>>50276649
Ashemmi pretty much a canon slut and Sememmon a cuck tho. At least she was riding the human cock carousel pretty hard when she was introduced dont know if they changed stuff about her in 3E fluff.
If I remember correctly she even had multiple Half-Elven bastards from different human fathers and there are probably more Zhents in Dark Hold who were inside her than there are not.

Ashemmi is pretty much the living proof that we are not so different after all from Japan.

>>50284070
When they were good they were great, yeah. TSR had so many really top shelf products (Volo's Guide to All Things Magical, anyone? Dragon Mountain?) but when it was bad it was terrible. WotC, for all their flaws, generally produced consistent mid-level content and their peaks and valleys were much milder than TSR's (Spellplague notwithstanding, I hate that stupid thing)..

The forgotten realms were forgotten because they're boring as shit.

>>50284138
Their illustration makes them out to be fucking ugly. Guess they were literally bumping uglies.

Wasn't it also written somewhere that Ashemmi was under a curse or some shit and was actually good-aligned or some nonsense?

>>50284126
You're forgetting Torm there, dude.

>>50276082
myth drannor only fell because of a massive demon army invasion. don't you even Elves?

>>50279402
myth drannor didnt make most of those portals. they were a war mythal of ancient aryvandar(might have been arcorar) which created portals all throughout faerun including several in cormanthor.

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>>50247630
>Not posting the whole set

Volo pls

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>>50284285
Red Knight is the Goddess of my heart

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>>50284308
Sharess and Bast are the same goddess in FR. Or different aspects of her or something.

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>>50284319
Uthgar-clerics having a dispute over who gets dem snek tiddies.

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>>50284334
Forget Loviatar Clerics I would convert to Tiamat in a heartbeat.

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Remember the time ancient dimension-travelling Imaskari Wizards actually kidnapped whole cities of Egyptians and Mesopotamians as slaves and brought them over to Faerun. Yeah, me too.

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>>50284374
Mulhorand was NOT-EGYPT and Unther was NOT-Mesopotamia and as far as both remember they have always been at war.

Then there was also Chessenta but I dont remember what they were NOT.

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I blame Eilistraee for modern Lolth priesteses wearing hooker uniforms.

>>50243876
HELM SEES ALL, KNOW THAT AND BE JUDGED

>>50284405
Cheesenta were the Greek city-states, with Tempus basically being their version of Aires, not that that's difficult because he has several superficial traits in common with Aires.
It's hard to notice because it's the ACTUAL Greek city-states in question, not the Disneyland theme park version; they all worshipped different gods, fought each other in wars and trade constantly, and didn't really have much of a unified pantheon of any kind until the notably more unified and structured Romans borrowed their deities and renamed them.

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>that feel when femdorfs have better beards than you will ever be able to grow

>>50284426
You should blame Gygax and his dominatrix fetish instead.

>>50284426
Hey now, Eilistraee has always made her priestesses go naked. Lolth's prestiesses are just whores for demon dick.

>>50247630
that priest of leira looks pretty cool

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Dayum thats one sexy anvil to the right tho

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As it turns out Elf clerics are the least gay-looking elves of all

>>50284319
They're the same being, but Sharess is just worshipped solely as Bast in Mulhorond. Sharess changed as a being when she took on the portfolios of another minor elves deity.
This was back when a deity'a portfolios weren't just their divine baseball score cards of who gets to worship them and more aspects of their actual personality, so taking on new portfolios alters their very nature in subtle ways.

I remember reading Tempus let's Garagos exist because the aspects of war that Garagos holds domain over he finds highly distasteful, and rather then adopt them and change he'd vastly prefer to remain who/what he is now.

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..Is that nigga actually wearing Wood-Armor?
Also Gnomes.

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Garl Glittergold´s cleric looks like a midget-version of the artist formerly known as prince and as though he is well aware of it.

Also one of these things is not like the others.

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Holy shit just look at all that swag of the Brandobaris priest!
He probably gets tons of pussy.

and thats all folks

>>50284523
I love how Urdlen's cleric is a normal human, you know, for giggles.

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>>50257370
Klauth, the Dragon of the North, perhaps the biggest dragon in all of Faerun.
He's fairly friendly for a red; he's so ancient and huge (magically increased lifespan even for a dragon) that basically he feels he has nothing to prove, and as long as visitors bring tribute he'll briefly entertain them as long as they aren't too annoying or anything.

Nicknamed "Old Snarl" by Northern folks because part of his upper lip was taken off in combat ages ago, so he looks like he's constantly grimacing.

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>>50284499
>>50284439
Thanks man, that clears it up.

>>50284574
This is the same dragon that has been known to roll around on top of ARMIES to kill them in a hilarious and degrading manner. I don't know how friendly he really is.

>>50284587
I said he's fairly friend "for a red".
Usually they don't even engage in conversation with smaller creatures because they feel it's like talking to your corn flakes or something.

Klauth is more like Smaug; he'll chat you up a bit if you assuage his overwhelming ego (though you should be appropriately afraid of being killed at any moment) instead of immediately eating and/or killing you just for being in front of him and being bite-sized.

>>50284308
I play RP servers on NWN, been doing so for almost ten years. It's a lot of good fun, fun interactions between characters and DM plots that actually respond to the bullshit curve balls players throw at them. Almost all of them are in the Forgotten Realms, because the base NWN was Forgotten Realms, it's just easier to port it over like that, so you could say I've been playing Forgotten Realms for almost ten years.
I told you all of this because I want you to know, I want you to realize Anon, that what I'm about to say is an opinion formed after ten years of exposure.
The people who play Red Knight followers are faggots. I have never seen a character who follows the Red Knight who wasn't just a total fucking cunt, IC and OOC. It's a faith that attracts autists and mary sues and your waifu is a shit.

>>50281475
>>50282200

There are canoniclaly guns commonly found in FR? like blackpowder?

>>50284621
>Usually they don't even engage in conversation with smaller creatures because they feel it's like talking to your corn flakes or something.
If I were a giant fire-breathing death lizard who crushes all that I survey, I wouldn't talk to my cereal either. Besides, talking cereal is probably bad for you. Better to just eat it and move on with your day.

>>50284660
Yes.
At one point it was mentioned that they were getting increasingly common (remember, most of western Faerun is technologically about as advances as 15th century Europe) among mercenaries and soon the national armies would need some just to keep up, but 3e came along and did what WotC does to all of it's products.

>>50284660
>>50282200
>>50281475
>commonly

They were outlawed in most places, most prominently in Waterdeep. Apparently also Harpers as well as most Wizard schools effectively exterminate blackpowder and weaponsmitsh with the knowledge how to make them every time firearms show-up like some Fantasy CIA.
Thats some really old fluff though, I my knowledge about how shit was changed in 3E is pretty limited.

>>50284730
Aaah yes, they very idiosyncratic Generation X-fueled "technology BAD, fantasy GOOD!" dichotomy that showed up in the 90's.

It's amazing how not fighting the USSR led to so much whining among a particular subset of people in the early decade.

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>>50284655
>Goddess of strategy and tactics attracts autists and spergs

This makes way too much sense!

>>50284786
Careful, you are starting to sound like you have multiple fedoras hanging at home.

>>50284790
It wouldn't be as bad if they were actually tactical. But they're terrible at strategy and just talk in chess metaphors to look like they know what the fuck they're talking about.

>>50284138
>>50284209
Basically:

Ashemmi was a Harper agent infiltrating the Zhentarim on the orders of Khelben, because her first love Elthaor was killed by drow and she was grief-stricken (easy for Khelben to manipulate).

Sememmon met her a while after she infiltrated as a "human wizard" and found out she was an elf after a bit of digging, but also fell in love with her (and she fell for him hard), so he began to divert stuff to help her and make plans to leave. When Manshoon found out what was happening, he killed Sememmon. Ashemmi begged Manshoon to bring him back, and in exchange let him turn her evil with magic (Manshoon didn't even erase her memory in the process, he just added massive overlays of hate and bitterness to it). Then brought he Sememmon back as a clone for added punishment to Sem, because now he had to witness everything he loved about Ashemmi twisted to evil.

So Sememmon was magically estranged from Ashemmi, and she tried to fill the "void" in her heart by sleeping with a guy called Dag Zoreth (probably most of Zhentil Keep as well, because it amused Manshoon). There was a child as a result, but Zoreth took him far away because the birth was the first crack in Manshoon's magic and opened her eyes to the shame and indignity that Manshoon had wrought.

Sememmon still loved Ashemmi, so he had to win her back (while pretending to be a loyal Zhent) and slowly start to tear down the walls of Manshoon's magic, which took about fifteen to twenty years (he really did love her). When Manshoon's clones all woke up at once, he and Ashemmi vanished in the chaos surrounding it and ended up siding with Khelben again when he came out of nowhere to help them, becoming his Moonstar agents.

During the Cleansing Ritual that brought back Miyeritar, the last vestiges of the magic were shattered and Ashemmi was completely returned to her old self. Similarly, Sememmon by that point had turned his back on evil, and so now they work for the angels, so to speak.

>>50284481
I would a Halani Celanil priestess.

>>50284574
He looks remarkably smug in that picture.

>>50284859
tl;dr: Manshoon's a prick.

Sidenote: Manshoon's my favorite FR villain, mostly because he's stylin.

>>50284426
Aren't drow meant to be sexy pretty? While that illustration is a lot better than most depictions of drow (because Dameron is a god tier artist), the drow still aren't a good-looking lot.

>>50284911
Khelben didn't come out of that affair smelling of roses either. First he manipulates Ashemmi into spying on Zhentarim, then he manipulates Manshoon/Fzoul with some deals on the side, then when the Clone Wars begin he throws a lifeline to Sememmon and Ashemmi, getting them to work for him instead.

Guy's an asshole.

>>50284308
>>50284655
Red Knight is great; the fact that people who like her IRL might be autists and raging pieces of shit is not disparaging to her, only to themselves.

>>50284859
So Manshoon's corruption fetish was defeated by true love and Sememmon's purification fetish?

This pleases me.

>>50284911
Manshoon is great.
Ed was under orders from the Powers That Be to make evil fail, so Manshoon became comically evil and would always fail against good characters.
That was fucking lame.

>>50284952
Khelben is a good example of what a Harper is; a piece of shit. It's ironic he became disgusted with their machinations to decided to form a new organization dedicated to more/continued manipulation and events.

>>50285083
>>50284952
Khelben and the Harfners are like a incompetent version of the Henry Kissinger & the CIA: Whenever they show and try to fix shit everyone involved is worse off than before.

>>50284946
Drow were always supposed to be ugly abominations, senpai.

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>>50285352
They're still elves though.

>>50285171
And they just made everything worse.
This also holds true for American meddlers.

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>>50284946
Pic is Drizzt's sister, Vierna.

>>50285600
She was the one who wanted to bang him, yeah?

>>50285705
She offered to do it in a private, more intimate setting to let him graduate, rather than taking part in the orgy, and while she admitted that yes, she'd done that shit for power in the past, there was an undertone that she did it because she was expected to, not because she wanted to. She was also much kinder than her sisters and other brothers.

In general Vierna was a lot more like Zaknafein and Drizzt than the rest of the drow, and she threw off the brainwash-lite in the last moments before her death. Almost a shame she didn't find Eilistraee, but RAS has always completely ignored the idea that drow deities besides Lolth exist.

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>>50285805
It's interesting how there's a few drow in the FR who buck the trend of the general disposition of the drow and are neutral or even good.
Pathfinder gets rid of this distinction completely and forbids any good drow; good drow do not exist to them and never will. The drow within that system all worship demon lords.


Also, fuck LOLth.

>>50286161
Yet another reason Pathfinder is shit.

>>50286161
I enjoy how even the Drow of Eilistraee are described as basically being psychotic, just with a good bent.

>>50240632
Question: Are Drow black skinned, white haired, and red eyed because they have adapted perfectly to their environment in the Underdark? And thus are genetically speaking a distinct and separate race from surface elves, which means if they interbreed with surface elves their children will be half Drow?

Or do they all have dark skin, white hair, and red eyes as a result of some ancient curse, as punishment for turning to Lolth. Which means underneath that curse they are genetically the same as whatever race they were mostly comprised of before worshiping Lolth. Thus, if they were to interbreed with a surface elf, the child would either be indistinguishable from any other surface elf because genetically there is no difference. Or, they would inherit their Drow parents curse and be indistinguishable from any "pure blood" Drow born and raised in the Underdark?

>>50286243
>result of some ancient curse
Bingo. They were dark-skinned before their descent into the Underdark, but Corellion cursed them for following Lolth into evil. If a drow breeds with a non-drow, the half-drow inherits the drow's coloration and hair (evidence: half-drow appeared in 3E's supplements)

>>50286243
Good questions.
Demihuman Deities and a few other resources (Lost Empires of Faerun being another) all describe how it was the Seldarine's decree (really a curse) that reformed the dark elves to look like the drow that they look like today.

It was the high mages acting in concert with their clerics empowered by the Seldarine that transformed the entirety of the dark elves into the drow, even those dark elves that had nothing to do with the evil of their kin.
This was written as another example of the high mages overreaching and causing too large of a ripple in the world and timestream.

>>50285531
>grey skin
>not ebony black
>yellow eyes
>not blood red

RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee................

>>50285705
Wasn't she and Drizzt both the result of incest? I distinctly remember the first time reading that trilogy that Zaknafein and Matron Do'Urden are brother and sister.

Remember that part where his mother cast some kind of spell on a generic slave and turned them into a Drow, then forced Drizzt to murder it? She mentions not making the same mistake with Drizzt that her mother had made with Zacknafein.

But we moved and those books disappeared. And when I got my hands a brand new freshly printed copy I noticed a lot of little changes, one of them being zero reference to both of Drizzts parents being related to each other. It even removed the part about his sister putting the moves on him. And he was only thrown into the pit with the Drider because he ran away from the orgy, not because he spurned her advances.

>>50286329
>>50286289
So even if the conception was entirely consensual, the Drow parent did not worship demons, let alone Lolth, and the other parent was a good law abiding citizen that worshiped a deity of purity and goodness, the child would still have black skin, red eyes, and white hair?

Damn, talk about punishing a child for the crimes of the parent.

>>50286740
Zaknafein was a commoner, but because he was a ridiculously excellent fighter, the best in Menzoberranzan, and in the entire world he'd probably rank in the top five (Drizzt, incidentally, ranks in at sixth). Because of that, he was named Weapons Master of the House and basically got raised to noble status as a result. This meant he could use the surname of Do'Urden.

In his early days he was Jarlaxle's adventure buddy and friend.

>>50286783
Sucks to suck, bro. That's what Eilistraee is for: to show that there are drow worth redemption. Personally, I wish Drizzt weren't so toxic, because I love the idea of an Eilistraee-worshipping drow paladin who just wants to bring redemption to his people. No one will ever let me play this, but I want to.

Also note that the drow were originally the dark elves, who had coal colored skin and light colored hair, so even if the Seldarine redeemed them, they'd still be dark anyway.

>>50286783
Corellon is a dick.

>>50286806
Wait, whaaaaaat? Where in the books did it say Zacknafein and Jarlaxle knew each other? God damn, my memory is absolute shit. If Zacknafein and his mother weren't related then what did she mean with that comment she made. About not making the same mistake with Drizzt that had been made with his father?

>>50286830
Personally I don't think Drizzt is toxic, I love the books and would give anything to get my hands on a fresh copy once again.

But I can definitely see how mary sue special snowflake types who bastardize the concept of Drizzt to make a OC Donut Steel characters can ruin all the fun.

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Remember when the drow had magic prosthetic limbs?

>>50286912
>magical cyberpunk Drow
ME GUSTA

Tell me more, anon.

>>50286911
Jarlaxle talked about how Zack was his friend at the end of the book where Drizzt goes back to Menzoberranzan, Starless Night I think it is. Drizzt didn't believe him.

He also mentions it a few other times throughout the books, but it only really starts to get focus around the Neverwinter trilogy and onwards, when Jarlaxle is basically an open friend to Drizzt rather than just a friendly acquaintance.

>>50286911
>About not making the same mistake with Drizzt that had been made with his father?
Zaknafein was absurdly good. So he got a lot of leeway, and once given, Drizzt's mother would have had a very difficult time reigning it in, because Zak's skills make him the sort you really, really don't want to piss off too much (lest he betray you, go off to a different Drow house, or use his skills at killing drow priestesses against you).

They didn't want to have two of them to deal with.

>>50286911
Mostly it's the Donut Steels, yeah. I just don't want to get roped into that pile of failure, which is a shame, since Eilistraee is so interesting as a deity.

>>50286980
Zaknafein does not have a c in it.

>>50286927
Perhaps the most common drow advanced
craftwork are the replacement
limbs worn by injured drow. These wonders
are almost all fashioned of adamantine
alloy: assemblies of precise, intricate
parts that are as agile and dexterous
as living limbs, with many ball-swivel
joints and tendon-like cables for control.
The adamantine construction makes
them both very hard and flexible—they
are not prone to shatter or snap off under
stress, but can punch or rake through
most armor.
Such limbs may have specialized, removable
"hands"—a drow lady whose
everyday limb-end is a delicate metal
hand may substitute an armor-rending
claw, or even a sword, axe, or long-spiked
mace end, when expecting battle.
If a drow claw attack roll succeeds,
drow and target both roll 1d8, adding this
to their Strength scores. If the drow has
the higher total, an area of armor is torn
away. A claw does 1d4 + 2 for a punch
("crushing blow" saving throws for struck
target items apply), and 1d4 + 4 per rake
(an attack that rends armor does only 1d4
to the victim beneath).
Able-bodied, whole drow may have similar
weapon or specialized extensions
that strap onto limbs or fit over a hand
(e.g. a one-piece sword-gauntlet) or foot
(e.g. toe-claws or spikes, used for climbing
stone and to kick-stab—an extra
dagger damage-attack—in battle).
DMs are encouraged to indulge their
wildest creativity in devising strange,
cruel new drow items. Internal strife
prevents drow societies from adopting
these as shared technology; they should
always remain "specials."

>>50287023
I agree, the other Drow deities are absolutely fascinating to me. Especially Vhaeraun.

Are there any novels that center around either of them?

>>50286980
Ah, I see, I haven't read those novels yet. And the others were read aaaages ago. And only because my high school library had them. The trilogy about Drizzt growing up were the only books my family owned. I consider myself extremely lucky that my mom loves reading anything and everything fantasy. She got me hooked on the good stuff when I was young, lol.

>>50287005
Ok, that's making some sparks in my memory. I guess I confused the orgy ritual scene with a different scene. And they both wound up merging within my shit brain.

>>50287036
I love you.

>>50287005
>Zaknafein was absurdly good.
24th-level 2e character good.

>>50287150
Imagine how much different it would have been if they had let him roam free instead of trying to break him down.

>Why is that dude treating that kobold so nice? Just kick the filthy shit into the gutter already!
>NO! That's Drizzt Do'Urden! He's one of the most powerful Weapon Masters in all of Menzoberranzan! If you hurt his feelings he will annihilate you! And he never walks alone, whenever he enters battle he is followed by his father, Zaknafein Do'Urden!
>So we're supposed to do nothing at all while this halfwit treats those disgusting mongrels as if they're better than us?
>Do you want to die?
>No.
>Then yes, you do nothing at all while this halfwit treats those disgusting mongrels as if they're better than us. Because House Do'Urden will wreck your shit up otherwise.

>>50287150
Yeah, the only character in the entire city who was were better than him level-wise was Matron Baenre (27th level cleric of Lolth) and MAYBE Gromph equaling him (24th level wizard).

>>50287251
>Drizzt is so bullshit he reached 18th level fighter, then decided he didn't like it and got 16 levels in ranger instead

>>50287292
He really is special, aint he?

>>50286289
>but Corellion cursed them for following Lolth into evil

Personally I've always interpreted this as just surface elf propaganda, and that the dark elves always had black skin and red eyes even in their earliest days.

Mostly because I am, for reasons that are probably obvious, not entirely comfortable with the idea of the "goodness" of an entire race being denoted by skin tone.

Particularly I am not fond of the bit at the end of the Lady Penitent series after Eilistraee dies and Corellon steps in to face off against Lolth, all the former followers of Eilistraee (and Vhaeraun) become brown-skinned rather than black-skinned since they've been partially redeemed (the implication being that they'll be fair-skinned if they're fully redeemed).

>>50287382
According to some WotC employee's twitter or something, in 5e Drizzt is an 8th level fighter.

This is bullshit for two reasons:

1) He has never in the lore been described as anything other than a ranger. Even when living in Menzoberranzan during and after his training in Melee-Magthere, he would usually serve as the party forward scout and skirmisher. Given that 5e has rangers that are more than capable of keeping up with fighters in terms of combat ability, I don't see an issue with making him a pure-class ranger.

2) The man has fought a marilith demon to a stalemate. I will grant he needed Bruenor's help to actually kill it; nevertheless, stalemating a marilith in melee combat is not a thing that 8th-level characters do.

I get that 5e Forgotten Realms is trying to move away from epic-level characters running around all over the place, but based purely on what Drizzt has done in his official lore, there is no way in Hell he's lower than 15th level.

>>50285352
citation needed

>>50287382
Funny thing is, if his Strength were one point higher, he wouldn't have to be on slow advancement to get his 16th level in ranger.

Still no other way for him to hit fighter 18, though.

>>50287455
Drizzt's magic items alone would put him way out of the range of an 8th level character.

He has, in 5E:

- +3 Defender (Twinkle, later upgraded to artifact-level when it was merged to Vidrinath)
- +3 Frostbrand (legendary, Icingdeath)
- Anklets of Haste (rare/very rare, his magical bracer things)
- +3 Heartseeker bow (Taulmaril, somehow a fourth attunement?!)
- Guenhwyvar (some sort of artifact/legendary figurine of wondrous power)
- Mithral chainmail (that allows him to also add his DEX bonus, it's the only way it could work otherwise)
- Ring of Fire Elemental Command (later given to Catti-brie)

He's got to be somewhere around level 15-16 in 5E.

>>50287455
drizzts power level is wildly inconsistent.
class is just a random selection of abilities, and fighter is a closer fit for him than ranger. he doesnt have a proper animal companion, he has a magic item.

he doesnt really have a favored enemy hes much more effective at fighting either.

so i can see the argument that hes built using levels in fighter with dual wield.

>>50287409
It was fine up until the lady penitent series, which had so much wotc oversight that the author more or less said it was no longer their writing by the end due to all the bullshit about elves and drow that the wotc marketing team insisted on.

That said, part of the reason I'm fine with it is that Eilistraee from the start showed that the curse didn't mean they were all bad, just that as a house/clan/whatever they were permanently marked. Then you remember that the heads of elven society are the bronze skinned gods that are sun elves, while the alabaster skinned moon elves are the expendable foot soldiers, and the brown skinned wild elves are just fun.

>>50287591
Twinkle should be +5. Where is Salvatore on this shit?

>>50287591
magic items are not necessarily to level.

bjt yes, i am inclined to agree he should probably be above level 8

>>50287536
Not only that, but he also has some natural ability when it comes to magic. Didn't Zaknafein have to fight his mother tooth and nail to prevent him from being sent off to be trained as a mage.

And then later on that one antagonist, a wizard, internally monologues about how stupid he thought Drizzt was, for wasting his magical talent by becoming a warrior, instead of a wizard?

>>50287659
Conveniently, exactly his level in 2e.

>>50287680
a +5 item in 3e is a +3 item in 5e. there are no +5 itema in 5e.

>>50287683
His 2e stat block has him as STR 13, DEX 20, CON 15, INT 17, WIS 17, CHA 14.

So he's best-suited for mage/thief.

>>50287671
>Then you remember that the heads of elven society are the bronze skinned gods that are sun elves, while the alabaster skinned moon elves are the expendable foot soldiers
Only a moon elf could be king (or queen) of Evermeet and the Elven people as a whole, remember.

>>50287680
5E doesn't have +5 enchantments, so Twinkle was "just" a +3 Defender. Drizzt usually has Twinkle in the off-hand anyway, and leads with Icingdeath in his main hand. Though now that it's been comboed to create a super-artifact sword, you could probably justify a +5 on it, and Drizzt admitted outright that he would no longer have Icingdeath as his main, because the new one, Vidrinath (glass-steel blade, stars and starlight inside it, unbreakable, inflicts drow sleeping poison at will on slicing, has all of Twinkle's powers as well), has been described as "at least" on par with several artifact weapons, such as Charon's Claw.

>>50287700
It's also a +5 item in 2e, when they were worth more. His chainmail was also +4.

>>50287696
what?

>>50287729
And the sun elves resent every part of that given that they represent the elite aristocracy while the moon elves typically are the common soldier or other rough but necessary job.

Though I don't recall the line that said the royal lineage had to be moon elven, I seem to recall elves of evermeet explaining the anger of the sun elves because at some point a sun elf married a moon elf and let the crown go to their lesser kin entirely.
But I could be remembering incorrectly.

>>50287796
>Though I don't recall the line that said the royal lineage had to be moon elven,
It's in the Evermeet novel. Basically, one Moonblade in particular was the kingsword, and that blade's wielders were destined by decree of the elven gods to be the royal line of Evermeet.

Sun elves cannot claim moonblades in the blade rite - only moon elves can. This was a point of interest involved with the Starym moonblade, because it had to be corrupted by Moander for a sun elf (Josiah Starym) to fake-claim it, and what he'd done was eventually discovered.

>>50287754
again i say, 5e redefined the math. +3 in 5e is is the mechanical equivalent to +5 in previous editions, regardless of gold prices, which have also been heavily redesigned.

>>50287847
>5e redefined the math.
Relative to 3e, which redefined the math relative to AD&D, making weapon bonuses worth significantly less.

>>50287455
>>50287591
Where is all that stated.

>>50287928
and?

the fact remains that in 5e there is literally nothing better than a +3.

>>50288069
Where does it say that you can't put +5 items in 5e?

>>50246412
Gruumsh is much more powerful than Talos, that's stupid.

>>50249043
Are there like...800 people in that city? I've built Dwarf Fortresses larger than that shitheap.

>>50288162
How do you differentiate power? What divine rank did Gruumsh have?
Think Talos has 16.

Gruumsh as a pantheon head is pretty shit.

>>50250067
Where are you getting this information?

>>50287847
>regardless of gold prices, which have also been heavily redesigned.
Is this implying there's any kind of thought process behind gold prices in 5e? It's just mundane objects cost nothing, plate armor costs everything, resurrection spells eat your gold after plate, and then a vague collection of guidelines for magic items that barely count as rules.

>>50286243
Underdark Radiation

>>50288101

all the named enchanted weapons do not go above +3 (including vorpal).

magic items section in dmg lists potential bonuses explicitly as "+1, +2, or +3". ammunition on p. 150, armor on 152, shield on 200, weapon on 213.

ah. here we go: magic item power by rarity, p. 285.

it lists legendary items at a +4. so a sword more rare and legendary and powerful than a vorpal sword is now possible, at a +4.

legendary items cannot be sold during downtime, finding a buyer for such an item is the substance of an adventure in and of itself. p. 130

and the magic item guidelines on p. 135 state that a legendary item (such as that mythical +4 sword) is not appropriate for characters of less than 17th level.

so there you go. no +5 weapons, and drizzt isnt a high enough level to warrant a +4, under any of the levels Ive seen suggested in this thread.

>>50288331
It looks like 2E lore.

>>50288740
i think hes looking for the original sources.

im curious as well.

>>50288783
Probably 2E's Deities and Demigods OR On Hallowed Ground. I think those are the big two for that sort of thing.

File: Drizzt.pdf (1B, 486x500px)

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>>50288069
Until someone makes something better. People can do that if they want, y'know. The math doesn't get terribly screwed up, especially if the only possessor of the +5 item is an NPC whom the PCs are unlikely to ever even encounter, let alone fight or kill.

>>50287659
>drizzts power level is wildly inconsistent.

I'll grant I have not read much of the later books; I stopped at Sea of Swords (no particular reason, I just haven't read anything after that). Unless he lost levels for some reason, though, then between Homeland and Sea of Swords he has a fairly steady power increase, climbing the totem pole of enemies he's faced and defeated in combat without shenanigans. The marilith is the most standout of those (he also faced Errtu, a balor, but there were, again, shenanigans)

I do actually have a personal 5e write-up for Drizzt as a 15th-level spell-less Ranger...but the write-up was done before the new UA Ranger came out so it could probably do with some tweaking.

Oh, I also limited myself to point buy for some reason. Forget my point cost; the idea was to not just give Drizzt a 20 in everything but to build him like an actual character.

>so i can see the argument that hes built using levels in fighter with dual wield.

It's a stupid argument given that he is again and again and again identified as a ranger. More to the point, he's not like Strider or Robin Hood or something, who are characters who pre-date and exist outside of D&D that probably can't be perfectly represented inside of D&D. No, Drizzt was created specifically for a D&D book series as a D&D character.

Plus in the 5e Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide he's the character used as the iconic Ranger in the book's Ranger entry.

Drizzt is a Ranger, damnit. Statting him out as a Fighter is like statting out Szass Tam as a Sorcerer, or Strahd as a wraith, or something else inane.

>>50279118
not an elf

>>50288928
>he's a ranger dammit
a character class is simply a loose thematic grouping of class features. not all rangers need have the ranger class. all that matters is whether the mechanics fit the fluff.

if i build a martial artist using any class, such as a brawler or ranger in pathfinder, or the unarmed soulknife variant, and he fights using martial arts, and has appropriate skills, and i play him as a monk, hes a monk. the classes used to build it are irrelevant.

>>50286243
metagame: they have the opposite colors of regular elves
dark hair > white hair
light skin > black skin
green eyes > red eyes

New:

>>50289549

>>50284553
He looks like a spriggan to me
but that's some shit