Pathfinder General /pfg/

Now, the question of the day. What tripfags do we need to crucify to appease the gods? My vote goes to depressed homebrewer.

>>50236251
I vote you, faggot.

I was told we would have an anime picture

i was lied to

>>50236213
I just want to make a phylactery and achieve immortal life. And if I lose 100 lbs of water weight in the process that'd be nice too.

tfw you will never be a qt lich

>>50236213

i mesterbated

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>>50236278

>>50236213
We were on page 6, motherfucker.

Let's continue our lamentations from the last thread

>Amazing game run by great GM dies off after 3 sessions

>>50236213
>What kind of goals do your characters have?

>My sister is missing
>The harvest failed and I need fast cash to feed my family
>I'm running away from my problems
>I've got to prove myself a worthy suitor to this Nymph

My goals are never too complex.

>>50236300
>up until 4AM making charsheet
>GM flakes

What do you do when you start to get bored of a character? I've been playing a bloodrager for over a year and I'm really starting to get over him. There are so many other builds I want to try!

>>50236300
>no game.

>pull a "you're dead all along" twist
>players mad

The PCs were investigating their own suicides the entire time. I enjoyed the fuck out of the twist, especially when one thought that they were their own best friend having been murdered and put into a box, only to see how own wedding ring on the hand inside and not knowing what the hell was going on.

>>50236327
Ask for a reroll or to bring him in as a new build. Have it be a quest.

>>50236327
Just retire him and roll a new PC anon.
If you put yourself in a corner by making his only goal in life be the goal of the campaign, well... Talk to your GM.
Otherwise, there's always a reason to stop adventuring.

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>>50236300

Pls no bully when I say this, but I'd actually quite like the chance to play a slightly lewd game with you guys. I'm not hurting for "normie" campaigns, but all this talk about thick, heavy character generation and tight gameplay is really getting my creative juices flowing.

>>50236300

>game consistently 30 minutes to one hour late
>slow as molasses barely make it to level 2 the 4th time we meet
>virtually nothing gets accomplished in game because 2 people want to do their own thing and the other 3 dont care and just go with it
>no one wants to be the face
>when I try to give direction I get called out for hogging the spotlight
>tfw knowledge checks make me the defacto party leaders because I know people in town and what different monsters are
>tfw I am the only one who buys supplies to actually go out adventuring
>tfw the others expect to use my gear and food when the spent it all on personal gear

I just want to ditch the party and run a mildly successful thieves guild. Is that really too big of a goal?

>>50236393

Maybe you should run it, anon.

>>50236393
There's nothing wrong with large statblocks anon, thick point buys and excellent houserules for character creation.

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>>50236402

>when I try to give direction I get called out for hogging the spotlight
>tfw knowledge checks make me the defacto party leaders because I know people in town and what different monsters are
>tfw I am the only one who buys supplies to actually go out adventuring

Too raw, too soon.

>>50236251
Why do you want to crucify namefags?
Why are you trying to appease gods which don't exist?
Why are you even here?

>>50236455
>Too raw, too soon.

Why cant they just buy some trail rations? They are so cheap and I see on their sheets they have like 50g and 12s and 13c.

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>>50236499

I don't know! I don't fucking know! I'm the guy that takes great pains to add autismal little details to their character sheet too!

Too many people forget to bring their Grooming Kits while out on adventure, what's up with that?

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Hey you Pathfinder fags, this isn't Pathfinder related but it IS kitsune and mind control related. Could I get some GMing advice here? >>50236519

>>50236499
>Join a level 6 gestalt
>Buy a whole host of standard DnD things like rope, chalk, bedroll, oil, tinder, grappling hook, mirror, etc
>Realise I can fly and have loads of other utility and never ever need them
>They literally sit untouched at the bottom of my inventory list for the entire year of playtime

>What kind of goals do your characters have?
Longterm
>become super powerful mage
>win the affection of his childhood crush, or at the very least make amends(which is the best he could hope for really)
Short term
>try to figure out what the hell his employer wanted before he nearly got killed
>find and deliver some payback to those fucker who ambushed him
>visit his parent's grave, he hasn't been in town for about 6 years.

>>50236448

But anon, I've never handled a chargen that generous, what if I mess up?

Fuck me, I didn't see this thread.

How can I make a Necromancer who focuses on a single strong skeleton instead of a mob? My DM said I can use any Dnd or PF 3.5 supplements so right now I have a Skeletal Minion replacing my familiar from UA.

>>50236573
Everyone has a first time.
Just pick your players carefully so they look like nice people with a good grasp of the mechanics who just want to have high powered fun, and not people who will take the mechanics to make perfect killing machines.

Ideally you can have honest talks with them about what you could do better, what they liked and didn't like, what they think could challenge their builds, etc.

>>50236535
Same with soap! Smelly slubberdegullions. And mess kits. And a change of clothes.

>>50236556

If you cannot find a use for it you are misappropriating your funds sir!

>>50236556
>>50236535
>Spend a lot of time adding fluff to my character sheet
>Write up a bunch of trivia like blood type and favorite color etc.
>Keep an easily accessible journal and notebook
>Nobody, not even the GM, reads any of it

Haha

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>>50236300
>should have just made a new character instead of trying to brute force the one I have into competence
>realization that the new character I had in mind would leave a big, gaping hole in party composition, since he's the only one with any actual restorative abilities
>I would have probably gotten flak for wanting to use a Jollylock due to "stat-to-damage touch attacks with deadly aim, it's better guns!"

I should have just gone with magus.

>>50236597

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?353181-Dread-Necromancer-Pathfinder-update-(WIP)

Dread necromancer is a good one. But it is more several powerful ones. I dont think there is a spec that focuses on just one big undead.

Summoner can make its eidolon undead-like if you want something along those lines.

>>50236213

Oh shit, I forgot Shayliss Vinder is going to be in the Rise of the Jade Regent campaign.

>>50236631
You'd just discard your daughter like that?

>nobody wants to be the face or decide anytging8
>end up unintentionally leading the party because im the only one who has any agency
>my character is supposed to be meek and shy but just got fed up with all these bakas milling about directionlessly

>3 hours of planning for a 2 turn raid

>>50236671
She deserves better

>>50236213
She just wanted to go meet her uncle.

She never asked for this.

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>>50236213
Re-toasting in this bread so I can get some more feedback. What do members of /pfg/ enjoy in their settings?
INb4 train guy says trains again.

>>50236300
>My lament is that I can't lament in thread because other players in the game browse /pfg/ and would know I was talking shit about them

>>50236679
https://youtu.be/9vqypMHxJDs
How to properly lead a party.mp4

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>>50236619
>>50236556

>Add fun little descriptions to all of my items
>Lacquered Minkai-made snuff boxes, black steel axe with lustrous golden inlay, Qadiran carpets, fine Nirmathan cotton clothes embroidered with heraldry, etc.
>Emphasize the types of ingredients I put into meals
>Use downtime to hunt a white lion on the Whistling Plains in Taldor, just so I can get a bitchin' cloak and mantle
>Even after doing this for a year, none of the other players have tried to pick up the miles of slack I'm giving them to join in

This is suffering, hopefully things will be less self-masturbation when January rolls around.

>>50236774
Just be vague you pussy

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>>50236769

This is a better Anubis.

>>50236327
Challenge a giant to an arm-wrestle.

>>50236769
>Re-toasting in this bread so I can get some more feedback. What do members of /pfg/ enjoy in their settings?

I like settings that actually feel like they're "filled in." This whole, "large swathes of uninhabited, fertile lands" is just silly.

>>50236769
Significant Neutral-aligned powers.

Good and Evil shouldn't have all the fun.

>>50236807
I've called them out on it before and the the issues are uncommon enough that they'd put two and two together.

Found the variant rules for HP and Injury, anyone here ever try the Vigor and Wound system? Did it work out well at all? Or do you have your own favorite variant?

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ultimateCombat/variants/woundsAndVigor.html

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>>50236300
>you get to 6th level on your character and realize your build is not fun to play

>>50236834
We're level 14. I think I'd win. I recklessly charge into combat all. the. tine.
Our life oracle is my character's sister, so even when I die (which has happened several times already) I'm brought back.

>>50236933
What did you roll, and what did you envision? What do you want to do now?
May be salvageable with retraining.

>>50236843

There was a DnD 3.X book that had a neutral force. The creatures all shared hit points so even though it only had like 10, any damage it took was split evenly amongst all of its kind so you effectively did zero damage to it. It didnt move to attack either, it just walked up to you, then a wound appeared on you where it hit you.

They were responsible for maintaining balance. IT was pretty cool.

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>>50236769
___________________________________________trains_____________

Where can I read about Apsu?

>No new DSP stuff for ages

What are they working on, these days?
Anything in the works besides the errata that isn't a public playtest?

Do they have a good editor now that Forrest left?

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>>50236832
I'm not picky when it comes to egyptian themed characters anon

>>50236839
Yep. I got that checked off, most nations are pretty tightly packed, with cities, towns and villages all over.

>>50236843
Check. By having less firm "deities" and a softer pantheon with some interpretations on them it's got a large bunch of neutral factions. You even have some smaller states that are removed from the larger nations.

>>50236980
_______________why?__________________________________________

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>>50236955
Bolt Ace
I envisioned Bolt Ace actually being fun on the long run

>>50237006
Nothing /pfg/ killed DSP with the constant POW shitposting.

>>50236997
>Where can I read about Apsu?

Faiths of the Inner Sea, even details stuff about Apsu Paladins.

>>50236915

That does not seem like it would be fun to play with. To me it looks like you have massively reduced durability from a life total perspective.

I could be wrong but I dont think that is a suitable replacement.

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>>50237019
>I'm not picky when it comes to egyptian themed characters anon

Are you going to include an Egyptian-esque region in your setting, anon?

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>>50237019
>By having less firm "deities" and a softer pantheon with some interpretations on them it's got a large bunch of neutral factions. You even have some smaller states that are removed from the larger nations.

>mfw you make a Lawful Evil Militant Order (Teutonic Order) or a generally good religion waging expansionist war against the Not!Baltic kingdoms of the region, who already worship an interpretation of that generally good religion.

Yes, the Teutonic Order was evil. They were and *are* the archetypal example of a Lawful Evil organization.

>>50234261
Could be worse
>GM explains mythic levels
>Doesn't let us look at the book
>"ok, I think I go trickster this path dabling feature looks awesome, are you sure you can pick it more than once?"
>"yeah, you totally can"
>"Well, I'm going trickster because of it"
>By tier5
>"You cheater, you can only pick path dabling once!"
>"? I guess? I mean you're the GM, you explained it to me, you didn't let me read the manual at all, so I guess it's your fault? well, if it doesn't work like that I'm going to change path..."
>"No, you're trickster deal with it, change that feature but you're still trickster"
Blog off

>>50236213
>What kind of goals do your characters have?
A reason to not give up and just kill himself.
At the moment busy with tagging after the rogue, but if anything happens to the guy he'd probably end up just killing himself/starting a fight he can't win at the moment.

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>>50236455
>So what do you guys do next?
>*five minutes of dead silence*
>"uh...."
>"yeah that."
>Guys?
>"... Okay look, we know there's probably some information in the library that old geezer with the cave was maintaining, so we'll go do some research about the macguffin over there unless someone has a better plan"
>"DUDE WTF"
>"SHIT MAN WHY DO YOU ALWAYS DO THIS?"
>"?"
>"OKAY EVERYONE GOES WITH WHAT I SAY, ONLY MY IDEAS ARE WORTH ANYTHING", You didn't even listen to any of our plans
>*I blame your mothers for this*

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>>50237028
Danke my good man/woman/Hind-D

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>>50236769
>What do members of /pfg/ enjoy in their settings?
Various ethnic groups and regional tribes that squabble and hate eachother, and all have their own minor traditions.
Possibly one of the only things I loved about Wheel of Time.
Plus it allows you to have more bang for your buck in regards to races.
Aiel best people

>>50236769
A Big Bad-style nation of Orcs or Goblins.

>>50237151

I like to incorporate a variation of the White Cloaks in my settings.

Give me one good reason why your setting can't have trains.

>>50237214
Magic

>>50237214
Rust monsters keep eating the tracks

>>50237229
>he doesn't have magic trains

Pleb

>>50237233
>His setting doesn't have large bounties on rust monsters.

>>50237271
also goblins will steal your tracks too
or orcs

>>50237214
Putting a fire elemental and a water elemental into the same room creates too much pressure on the engine making them too costly.

Also Teloport Circles.

Is it unacceptable to roll up an extremely optimized character that can shit on anything... And then intentionally underperform down to the power level of the party?
I really like the idea of having a secret Avatar State/Super Saiyan mode/etc. on an otherwise seemingly normal character.

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>>50237233
This actually makes sense to a point.

>>50237297
Well
Lot of numbers in Pathfinder are always on
You can't really hide your power level

>>50237214
Trains naturally attract mimics.

>>50237174
To be fair, they are essentially the NotSpanish Inquisition, except with "Darkfriends" and Aes Sedai instead of heretics and Jews. Its really easy to shoehorn them in.

>>50237297

Nothing wrong with it, anon!

>>50237297
Honestly how do you plan on "underperforming"?

That is going to decide it. A lot of optimization can't be turned off because it's simply the fact you have a high DC, to hit, saving throws, etc.

>>50237214
Monks keep going around suplexing them so they break

I want to FUCK the Spirit of Adoration!

>>50237335
go away sabin

>>50237214
The major city in my setting has this instead:
>permanent demiplane station
>has exits to multiple major cities in the empire
>been there for hundreds of years
It's much faster than trains.

>>50237071
Wait, they're still around?

>>50237321
are there train mimics

>>50237342

>When interacting with easily frightened mortals (especially children), she uses her shapechanging powers to look like a human or elf of normal height, attractive according to the standards of the local people, but she never makes herself so beautiful as to cause jealousy or inspire inappropriate comments or attention

She's too pure for that.

>>50237356
Terrorist attack with MAGE'S DISJUNCTION when

>>50237214
Nobody's come to the economic problems and solutions that would result in the invention of trains yet.

Closest thing so far is a donkey or camel caravan, nobody needs METAL BOXES yet to move the amount of things that actually get moved. Imagine making a Boeing 747 only to have about 20 people riding it and no reason to go airborne because all your travel routes are either overland or crossing shallow seas rather than oceans. It's wasteful.

>>50237392
Something similar actually happened. A bunch of citizens got thrown into the astral sea.

>>50237214
But it does have trains.

>>50237316
>>50237333
I'm thinking about a Destruction spherecaster with a ton of CL boosting effects and such.
Normally it'd just throw lightning bolts at people for leveld6 damage and such, but when shit hits the fan it uncorks the +8CL Empowered Lightning blast in a line and the +8CL Quickened Sonic blast in a cone.
Probably higher than +8CL honestly, I've yet to powergame it. Just a concept.
Fluff it as very draining, maybe make him fall unconscious after.

>>50237365
Mimics can mimic anything non-living.

>>50237451
>train sized mimic pulls into station
>gets a huge meal of people

jesus christ how terrifying.

>>50237445
You don't even have to fluff it dude.

the Overcharge boon lets you knock yourself out with your magic if you use it enough.

>>50237043
I did, but it got the shit conquered out of it by another nation during my world gen. Lucky the conquering nation is more of a "Puppet the cities" then a "Raze the cities" sort but the egyptian-esque nation is a slave to their Orcish conquerors at this point.

>>50237168
See above, the orcs unified ages back, conquered Hobgoblins and the goblins and then waged war on some not vikings and won. The nation's power and aggression comes with the next leader proving themselves and the most recent leader lead the war against not egypt pushing the orcish nation up to the borders of an advanced human empire.

>>50237071
I can see something like that happening to the poor halflings. They've been minding their own business, fishing and whaling but one of the religious human empires built up a shitton of troops near their border.

>>50237151
How small scale do you figure for this? Like one town against another? A couple of regions in a nation? International conflict and tradition difference is a given.

>>50237214
Because slavery was never eliminated the drive for industrial machines was never needed and so the basic building blocks just weren't there. People know steam can be used for things but why bother investing when you already have 12 people out working the field that you only need to feed and clothe.

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>>50237445

You should be sure to ask your GM how Paizo spell benefits and caster level increases (e.g. Blood Havoc, draconic/orc bloodlines, the Magical Knack trait, the Mage's Tattoo and Spell Specialization feats) will interact with spherecasting before doing this, and also whether or not a sorcerer focus sphere can stack with an incanter sphere specialization.

As well, ask your GM whether or not they will allow custom blast types using the rules in the Destroyer's Handbook.

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>>50237297
>Tfw playing in a party as a wizard and the next closest thing to you is an antipaladin

Suffice to say I'm vomiting forth magic items at every opportunity for them but I just went "full power level" with a few limited wishes and two fingers of death on 3 angels, banishing the first two, then using finger of death twice, dealing over 300 damage to this 385hp angel in two rounds, throwing the other limited wish when it tried to antimagic field us, and the party finished it off.

That shit gets awkward

>>50237342
You know those azata's with snake bodies? I always wanted to get coiled up by one of those.

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I wanted to play a bolt ace tengu with a Great Crossbow. Then I had a weird idea: how wrong is take the Claw Attack racial trait, in order to qualify for the Snake Style feat, letting him have a good defence?

>>50237496
>How small scale do you figure for this? Like one town against another?
around 75% the size of the Macedonian Empire size seems good, with the borders having some asshole barbarians that occasionally come down as a plot point

>>50237484
I've seen it, but I can't fenagle three casts into one turn.
Actually, I could cast an Empowered Maximized blast first with a 1 round casting time first and THEN do the Empowered + Quickened.
Huh. Thanks for giving me the idea.
Still don't know if this character is a dick move or not though.

>>50237504
I already have. Thanks for the copypasta, 2hu ;^)

>>50237535

Lillends are the purest Azata, still think Ghaele a best tho.

So let's say the population of a setting is ~1 billion, the same as the world in the year 1800.

How many level 20 PCs do you think should be around? I, in my setting, put it at 100 level 20 PCs knocking about.

>>50237496

>Egyptian region conquered by Orcs

Anon please, you had me at everything else about this setting but now I wanna play.

>>50236213
>What kind of goals do your characters have?

Build a safe home for his family and...not much else. I might retire him once that goal is fulfilled and bring someone else in.

>>50236425
Do it faggot

>>50237496
Slaves would ultimately require more resources than a machine after a certain point. Slaves would need food, water, other bare living conditions, as well as land for them to sleep. Land that could be used for more production if you had machines. Industrialization always stamps out slavery, it becomes too cost inefficient to keep them around.

>>50237579

I break it down into brackets for my high level high fantasy games

>level 1-3 is about 35%
>4-7 is about 25%
>8-11 is about 20%
>12-15 - 15%
>16-19 - 4%
>20 - 1%

It could be less or more but it about that.

>>50237553
Heck, if you try hard enough you can do FOUR.

Quicken only improves by two steps, not automatically a swift.

And each other increases by 1 step.

Get me?

>>50237679
>one in every 100 people is level 20
Jesus christ.

My percentage of level 20 characters is 0.0001%

If you take a bunch of level 1 dips into spherecasting classes what happens to your spell points and magic talents?
Does it all combine together? If so, do you repeatedly get your casting stat in bonus spell points every dip or does that only happen once?
If that's not how it works, do you become a worthless pile of loose magic talents and ergo should never multiclass this way?

>>50237662

I'm a forever GM anon, I'd like to play for once.

>>50237738

We'd be playing with you, anon!

>>50237728

I said it was high level high fantasy! My players tend to like having competition too.

>>50237693
Damn, you're right! That's gross.
Won't have the spell points for that for a while though.

>>50237596
I don't have tooooo much. I have outlines from national politics and trade to the major towns and the like but I'm here brainstorming to get the meat to actually flesh out the skeleton.
I'm gonna sit down and turn a skeleton map into a more detailed map soon too and I'll probably get back to you guys with that when it's done.
After I get the major things together I'll likely come back to /pfg/ and get some people together to help flesh out some of the smaller things as I know /pfg/ has a bunch of talent when it comes to creating settings and memorable characters. I might even try to get some anons help creating important NPCs if anyone would be interested.

>>50237670
Eventually yes but for the initial investment machines are horribly inefficient. For specialized tasks you might find magic working on it/ Like, sure if everyone suddenly had modern machines it would make sense but the reason there's no drive for change is because slaves are so cheap in many nations. Additionally slavers and slave owners already have money invested and they aren't too keen on seeing anything try to undercut what they're working. Look at labor even today in china and other eastern nations, factory workers living exclusively hand to mouth still exist even when we have all of our advanced technology. It's not so hard to imagine that slaves could mitigate the progress of industrialization especially when the world is set around the tech of a renaissance-ish world (Some nations are further, others earlier)

>>50237757

But I want to not have to worry about all the stress of GMing, all the prepping and planning and off the seat bullshittery; I want to be responsible for just ONE character, not the whole world.

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>GM is letting me play a snakegirl

Now to actually make a character, I didn't think he'd say yes so easily.

>>50237769
Use the quicken metamagic rules for sphere casting to crank out multiple effects in one turn.

Take Overcharge boon, Quicken, Empower Maximize Metamagics, and the Shift Time talent from Time Sphere.

Blast 1: Quickened, Maximized, Empowered, Overcharged Full CL Exposive Orb Blast
Blast 2: Quickened, Maximized, Overcharged Full CL Exposive Orb Blast
Blast 3: (Shift Time:Swift) Quickened, Full CL Exposive Orb Blast
Blast 4: Quickened, Overcharged Full CL Exposive Orb Blast

Proceed to wreck shit

For getting the SP needed, look into Admixture Savant Elementalist and the Soul Fire Feat. Pump Int and Con as high as possible. Also take drawbacks like Focus casting, Magical Signs, Somatic casting (1 or 2), and Verbal casting to help manage it all.

It'll still take to like 5-7th level to do but you could do some combination of effects at much lower levels.

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>>50237286
>train designer's face when someone asks why they don't just use regular fire and water instead of elementals

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>>50237812

I will be uploading a new version of that token pack in half a day or so. It will contain ~35-40 new animu tokens.

>>50237779
There's also the fact that magic would likely lead to either reduced industrialization costs or completly negate the need for industy. But as long as people need to move large quantities of materials, train/boat-like vehicles will be worth considering.

>>50237765
That's not high level fantasy, that's retard level. How does a setting survive the fact 5% of the population can cast 9th level spells?

No seriously. When Wish is so common one in every couple dozen can cast it, or worse Miracle, how does anything stay even remotely stable.

>>50237860
>how does anything stay even remotely stable.
Simple, the world becomes anime

>>50237393
no economic reason to move goods faster than a donkey can walk

On a third level character with no 3rd party:
If I take a dip into Oracle of Waves for the ability to see through Obscuring Mist, how should I abuse that with two levels of Ninja/Rogue/Vivisectionist?

>>50237833

You cannot just use regular steam when you can make magic steam!

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>>50237812
>you will never have a cute snakegirl in your party
>you will never be allowed to use weird monstrous humanoid races as PCs

stop making me think about these things, anon.

>>50237860

You do realize that devils, angles, efreet and other outsiders can cast wish as a spell like ability and they dont have problems with stability.

>>50237879
Anime is not nearly that powerful the vast majority of the time.

No seriously, the fact there are level 20 people fucking everywhere is gonna cause a problem because in order to get to level 20 you need to kill a lot of people/things. Plus the fact such opposed alignments exists means there will be constant conflict on a level that it will decimate cities.

In a city of any size there will be more than 2 wizards at level 17-20. What happens when they start casting meteor swarm at each other and killing large numbers of the populous, and get even more level 20 characters involved?

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>>50237342

>>50237940
>implying wizards have better things to do than get into fights with one another.
It's a waste of time and resources when you can just fuck off to your pocket dimension and study there.

>>50237931
The fact that outsiders can did it also makes next to no fucking sense in any setting. Wish itself ins't the problem, it's the amount of power going around constantly. Humanoids being that level means they have done quite a bit of killing and know how to continue doing it.

Level 1 characters can die from simply being near level 20 characters, not because the level 20 did anything, but passively.

Also there is far less CR 20 outsiders than one per 100 mortals (finite populated infinite planes).

>>50237963
>It's a waste of time and resources when you can just fuck off to your pocket dimension and study there.
So you're saying any level 20 character will sit quietly and not interact with anyone ever?

Ok, lets say two level 20 clerics of deities with opposed alignments (CE and LG) are both in the city. How are they not going to fight one another?

>>50237981

So your problem isnt with the number of people who have power but with power itself?

In which case, why are you playing pathfinder?

>>50237883
Well, yeah. Trade routes are short enough that donkeys make good time.

Nobody needs to cross a whole continent in three days yet, we're not there yet.

It's like asking why the Romans didn't have airships.

>>50237535
Lilends are cute like that. Also, all those perform skills they may have picked up...

>>50237812
What race?

>>50238030

Oddly enough I remember reading that Romans had steam engines but they were nothing more than a curiosity because they had so much slave labor.

>>50238016
>So your problem isnt with the number of people who have power but with power itself?
No it's entirely with the number of people. A few level 20s around mean that even when they come into conflict (which they will) it doesn't happen everywhere constantly.

When 5% of the population is 17+ fights of that level are happening everywhere constantly.

How does any society function when 5% of the population are essentially godlings?

>tfw i will never play a game
>only GM

kill me steve

>>50238089

Youre assuming they majority are in conflict because of alignment issues. People are still mostly neutral and dont hold strong convictions beyond themselves and even evil people recognize the importance of civility and strength, especially when any alignment that tries something could easily be outnumbered by the neutrals.

Think of it as mutually assured destruction.

>>50238080
Steam engines predate romans. But the Greeks and later the Romans didn't have the technology to make them actually USEFUL. Making a steam engine is a fairly simple matter. Making a steam engine that's efficient enough to function as more than a curiosity is pretty hard and takes some fairly advanced metallurgy.

>>50238130
>People are still mostly neutral and dont hold strong convictions beyond themselves
Yeah, level 1s are. Level 20s are people who have spent years in a roil of war and conflict.

If people are so against conflict who the fuck is everyone killing constantly to get to level 20?


>even evil people recognize the importance of civility and strength
Chaotic Evil people don't.

>Think of it as mutually assured destruction.
Which works when people respect any kind of command structure and civility, or care. Chaotic Evil people don't care.

Hell chaotic people in generally won't care.

>>50238170
>Chaotic Evil people don't.
They do. Because literally spending every waking moment of your life hacking off heads is a shitty way to live even if you love to fight.

>>50238089
NPCs are not optimized
World is not optimized
Just because the high priest is a 15th level cleric, does not mean he is going to memorize anything but service spells

>>50238170

Because it is high fantasy?

CE people respect strength, they are evil, not suicidal.

Then they lose to the lawful and neutral people. I dont know why this is hard for you to understand. By your logic the world would be ruled by CE people regardless of power because they dont care, but that isnt the case.

>>50237941

I want to protect her smile!

>Canonically great with kids

>>50237728

>NPC classes are super scary

Not really anon. Just because the expert is high level doesnt mean he is doing anything other than working his forge or doing clerk work.

>>50238170
Do you know what chaos and evil means
Individuality does not mean being unable to serve someone.
Even if you want to be independent, you still know that you need to bow before your strong to stay alive.

>>50238199
>Just because the high priest is a 15th level cleric, does not mean he is going to memorize anything but service spells
The High Priest isn't 15th level.

One in every 10 priests is 15th level. The acolytes are 15th level. I don't think you quite get the brackets he gave.

>NPCs are not optimized
>World is not optimized
It doesn't have to be to have the fact that 9th level spells being a dime a dozen fucks over any setting that makes remote sense.

Honestly if he just said "it's a gonzo setting, shit doesn't make sense", then sure that's fine. Trying to justify the fact one is twenty individuals is capable of 9th level spells with "nah no one will hurt the status quo" is retarded.

There are entire settings about 10 individuals having a level 20 stare down and it still fucks over the setting.

>>50238196
>They do. Because literally spending every waking moment of your life hacking off heads is a shitty way to live even if you love to fight.

It is literally part of their alignment. If they cared they wouldn't be CE. CE are as an alignment amoral sociopaths.

>>50238170
CE is opposed by:
LE: Who doesn't want their chaoticness to ruin their schemes and plans.
NE: Who doesn't want to live in a shithole that CE would bring.
Good alignments: Who are bound to fight evil.
LN, TN: They'd probably be up in arms when the city they rely on starts dying to some mad man.
CN: Is just CE, so no change there.

So 7/9 alignments oppose CE. *Thats* why CE won't get anywhere.

>>50238248
Oh that thing
oh whatever let him figure out his own setting

>>50238267

Dont forget that CE fights CE as well. It is why demons have not won the blood war.

>>50238267
Neutral alignments do not oppose other alignments
That is why they are fucking neutral
because they do not have a bias

>>50238267
Yes and LE and LG people are in conflict all the time. Evil and Good are in conflict. What self respecting level 20 paladin is going to let a LE level 20 priest just conduct buisness in his city?

>>50238248
>If they cared they wouldn't be CE. CE are as an alignment amoral sociopaths.
Do you stop to personally crush every single insect you encounter?

>>50238267
>CN: Is just CE, so no change there.
Oh so you're one of those retards.

>>50238294

Neutrals come in two forms, those dedicated to themselves and those dedicated to maintaining balance. In both cases, CE people fucking shit up is a no no for them.

>>50238314
That is like asking why US government did not just shoot Al Capone

>>50238267
The thing is, by the time you react to it (let's say round 3), several hundred people have already died because 50% of the population is still level 1-5.

Also NE and LE people would be fighting good as well all the fucking time. Especially the kind of people who make it to level 20 being evil.

Also if two chaotic evil people get into conflict they're going to blow up a district.

>>50238247
No I'm saying how pathfinder describes alignments. Chaotic Evil

>http://www.d20pfsrd.com/alignment-description/additional-rules
>Chaotic Evil
>A chaotic evil character does what his greed, hatred, and lust for destruction drive him to do. He is vicious, arbitrarily violent, and unpredictable. If he is simply out for whatever he can get, he is ruthless and brutal.

>>50238334
Yeah no, unless you are ready to make the cut that those ultra balance nerds are also ready to oppose the 3 other corners of the alignments.

CE is no more radical than LG. Your CE warlord attracts CN people because he provides conquest and glory, and NE also gladly follow him because he provides opportunities to personally benefit for the craven.

>>50238317
No but when I fight another level 20 we end up blowing up a city block. Or when I feel like it I kill the insects for fun.

Seriously these people would be EVERYWHERE. It doesn't matter that they all stop to do it, people above level 15 make up ~7% of the population.

>>50238342
FBI agents have neither the ability to magically determine people's alignment, nor a divine mandate to murder evil people.

>>50238342
There is a difference between Al Capone and someone who worships a God of slavery so much that he gives up elemental evil. No seriously Evil Priests are really fucking evil.

>>50238374

>all alignments have exactly 1/9th the population divided equally

Mighty big assumption you have there anon.

>>50238406
It is 2016.
Detect Evil has not been a valid reason to kill someone for 30 years or so.

>>50238406

>Implying

>>50238394
How is a level 20 Brawler fighting a Level 20 fighter going to blow up a city block?

>>50238425
A level 20 priests is much more evil than most actual demons.

>>50238424
Nice blind assumption
The edges are the extremes and most people land into true neutral not out of druidish agendas, but pure apathy.
Because the cosmic struggles do not matter when you just try to survive from day to another.

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>Alignment debates
>2016

>>50238430
Depends on the fighter and brawler actually. The fighter grows to 30 feet tall and starts bashing buildings. Or the brawler uses awesome blow to send he fighter through a building.

>>50236797
>>50236619
>>50236556

You guys sound comfy as fuck, where do I find games with this kind of stuff?

>>50238434
Yet he has not done anything.
It is different to be a passive force or an active force.

>>50238440

>most people are TN
>continues to argue that CE will destroy everything

inb4 you are not ~that~ anon but a different one

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>>50238459
Nowhere because /pfg/ never plays with other /pfg/ players.

>>50238485
Which anon

>>50238482
So you're telling me the power evil cleric. So evil that is corrupts things near him. So evil he is far more evil than the vast majority of demons. Hasn't done anything evil?

No seriously nigga are you retarded?

>>50238440

Wait what. Did you just agree with me while trying to sound like you were not?

>>50238485
TN people come into conflict with each other too. It doesn't matter if it is less the amount of power around means that even if only a few do it the city if fucked. Bar room brawls involve people able to tear dragon's heads off. Half the acolytes are above level 10.

Even then true neutral people fight true neutral people all the time. To be level 20 you've killed A TON of people.

>>50238459
Middle link here
I play with one group exclusively
Mostly because text games are all I can find online and they're honestly dreadful
I like writing but text games take forever to do anything and are just awkward in general

>>50238501
Ok what fucking bullshit are you making up now

Different faiths are not automatically in active war with each other and/or always knee deep in cliche acts.
The evil temple does not have to be doing live human sacrifices 24/7

I just wanted to argue alignments.
Not this anon's bullshit setting that literally does not matter.

>>50238580

Hey it matters to that anon and his players!

>>50238570
I don't think you understand. The evil temple does evil things because it is literally part of their faith. The temple of Asmodeus offers morally corrupting deals to people all the time because it is part of their scripture and pure beliefs. It's like saying Catholics don't sing hymns.

No seriously, your view is the incorrect one here.

Evil priests that powerful do evil shit constantly. If they didn't they WOULDN'T BE EVIL.

>>50238570
>The evil temple does not have to be doing live human sacrifices 24/7
YES IT DOES

Fucking pussified milenial cultists.

You know this all started when the High Priest Zoma, cursed be his name, allowed Tomato juice as a substitute for Goats Blood during rituals. That's when everything started getting watered down!

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>>50238606
Heck him! What has he done for us?

>>50238641

About 100 posts of debate?

>>50238641

STOP BULLYING HIM YOU FRICKING JERK

Is there a way to get advantage of high speed in PF?

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>>50238651
Clearly the beatings weren't enough! You better shut your hecking mouth next time!

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>>50238734

Say that again and I'm going to bend you over my knee and spank you like the brat you are.

>>50237860
Well he said 1 in 100 were level 20, not 1 in 100 were spellcasters.

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>>50238765
You really want to touch my butt that badly?

Are there any effects out there in 3pp land that allow you to relocate a target creature to be next to you?
Spells, powers, maneuvers, a grappling hook that's not worthless, whatever. Lay 'em on me.

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>>50238798

I said I was going to make your ass red and raw when I'm done with you, don't bully people you dingus!

>>50238789
Even a level 20 fighter is going to be covered and able to afford enormous amounts of magical gear.

Even if he said "it's low magic level, no spell casters" and still put level 20 martials everywhere that'd still be dumb.

>>50238810
http://archivesofnethys.com/MagicWondrousDisplay.aspx?FinalName=Batrachian%20Helm

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>>50238854
>raw
How lewd of you! I barely know you too.

Does anyone know of a game that would be kind enough to recruit someone testing out their own homebrew?

>>50238928
Maybe that mercenaries game?

>>50238885
That's extremely overpriced but I guess it'll have to do if I can't find anything better.

Makes me want to play some kind of frog vigilante, actually.

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>>50238901

Don't need to know a person to pound them, anon. Maybe if you apologize I'll work in some aftercare.

>things you do that you know /tg/ will hate

>changed magic item crafting entirely
>magic item crafting now requires a feat chain, but does not have a CL requirment
>first you take skill focus in a craft skill
>then you take Master Craftsman (allowing you to create masterwork items)
>then you take Magical Craftsman, which allows you to make magic items with that one craft
>scroll/potions/wands skip one of these feats, making it a two feat chain instead of three
>the crafting is more specific, meaning you take three feats to craft ONLY magic armor or ONLY magic weapons or ONLY magic leather goods
>classes like wizard now get Skill Focus Craft(Calligraphy), other classes that get item crafting feats get similar depending on what feat they'd get normally
>level requirements are gone for crafting feats, meaning a human expert can craft magic arms/armor at level 3 by spending his two level 1 feats and his level 3 feat
>DC to craft magic items are higher
>craft now uses the best of your three mental stats

>magic item shops in my games are next to non-existent and you generally won't find shops stocking magic items save for very heavily used stuff (bags of holding I for example), and then it'll be high end stores
>this is true except for shit like low level potions/scrolls
>instead you can go find a Magic Artisan and get an item commissioned, these are much more common
>this means you have to wait around for the item to be made
>if you need something quick you can instead go to a large city were adventures, like you, are selling shit they pulled out of tombs/dragon lairs/etc.
>generally you won't find exactly what you're looking for this way, but will probably find something at least kinda close

>>50238949
Mercenaries game?

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>>50238979
>this memery again
at least post sluts when you do it so your post isn't a waste

>>50239004
E8, allows character switching

>>50239013
>sluts
>worth more than copy pasta

He even added to it since last time. Besides, what he made IS a good idea.

>>50239018
Is it possible you could give me a link?

>>50239038
No, its not.
No, you didn't.
No, your idea isn't good.

>>50239074
I don't think it's started yet.

>>50239074

It's still in the proto-stages of development, hardly even built beyond "there's mercenaries and you're working for a grand company."

>>50239083
Actually yes I did, there are two new lines. Someone isn't paying attention.

>making magic item crafting harder
>not a good idea
someone sounds like a baka desu

>>50239088
>>50239100
Is there like a roll20 page for applicants to display interest, or a way to contact the GM?

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>>50238973
And if i'm not sorry?

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>>50239150

Then we'll keep doing it until you are.

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>>50239100
>grand company
Immortal Apes and Twin Badders need not apply.

>DM finally gave up and booted the player that always seemed disinterested
Thank the lord.

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>>50239178
Are you sure you have the fort saves for that? You might be the one who's sorry after all this!

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>>50239263

Then I guess we'll have to space out the poundings over a year! We'll jokingly enter an ironic relationship that eventually leads to a sarcastic engagement and tear-filled marriage!

Jokes on you, the true punishment was me!

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>>50239301
>Ironic Marriage
It's all I ever wanted out of life. I'd be a happy anon to spend time with a cutie like you.

>>50238294
Lawful and chaotic alignments oppose each other just like good and evil. A LN might not oppose a LE or a NE but they do oppose a CE.

>>50239352
A CN and LN person comes into conflict as open as a NE and NG person.

So very often.

>players follow everything NPCs say as face value
>told them before the campaign began I would be rolling their sense motive checks myself so they don't become biased by their rolls
>they still just believe everyone no matter what

Well they have been getting manipulated for near 5 sessions now and not one of them is catching on.

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>>50239478
>rolling their sense motive checks myself
What did you expect would happen dingus?

Why do so many games have such garbage character creation rules and low PB, don't they realize that high PB is better for balance

>>50239478
Maybe there are lulling you into a false sense of security while secretly meeting behind your back and preparing for the double-double-cross they are about to rain down on your campaign?

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>>50239351

And all I've ever wanted to do was make you happy, anon. You've got a smile I want to protect!

>tfw no one to duo app an adorable power couple

>>50239518
It's worse when people roll low and go "HE MUST BE LYING". It's metagaming bullshit.

>>50239522
They already killed a investigator who was close to the truth for him, so it's a bit late.

>>50239521
Honestly I personally work with 20 or 25PB.

I believe 15 is too low, but also that 32 is too high.

Someone told me I was a shit GM with too low PB and that it should be 46. I told them to fuck off.

Shenanigany things you can do with special materials?
Also, for anybody that knows, across all of DnD is there a way to use two mats at once? I took craft(armor) for fun this character and want to put it to work.

>>50239555
why not >29

If a spontaneous caster quickens a spell and then applies another meta-magic to it, does it become a move action? Is there any way to cast a spell as a move action?

>>50239560
>Shenanigany things you can do with special materials?

Adamantine weapons and Mithral armor are the BEST.

But really, I'd just try and verbally masturbate as hard as you can with crafting (protip, Adamantine looks incredible when inlaid with gold or silver.)

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>>50239541
>not trusting your players not to metagame
>cackling to yourself about how you maniplutate them.
The shit one is you!

>>50239571

>If a spontaneous caster quickens a spell and then applies another meta-magic to it, does it become a move action?

Quickened spells are swift actions

>Is there any way to cast a spell as a move action?

Unless there's some specific spell that lets you cast it as a move action, only with Mythic

>>50239521
>>50239555
>>50239567

>tfw no high-level Path of War campaign

I've never *ever* handled maneuvers beyond 3rd-tier, it hurts.

>>50239555

>tfw DM uses a 41 or 42 point array

>>50239567
I believe 25 PB is enough for MAD characters. Anything more and I think it takes away character creation opportunity cost as a factor. I don't want PCs to be too far above average at everything.

Also for normal games people don't need too high of scores in everything and the thought you need to be the strongest all the time is caused by optimization arms races. I kick people who are in it just for optimization arms races.

>>50239587
They would have my trust if they earned it. They lost it after they couldn't stop metagaming.

>>50239582
That's what I intend to do, see if I can convince my DM to let us fight a Medusa and have my hellknight plate be so shiny that she's petrified.

>>50239626
i just like 29 because its enough to take that 17 to an 18

>>50239664
And I'm saying that most of the time you don't need that 18. Especially if you're playing a race that has a +2 in that stat. Unless you're forcing a dwarf to be a sorcerer or something you don't need the 18.

>DM allowed Path of War in case we wanted to use it, but only one guy uses it
>we have to sit around and watch his power level wanking for a while whenever its his turn
i feel like if the majority don't want to use it, it shouldn't be available

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>>50239638
>Lording over your players this hard
Get off your high horse and suck a dick faggot.

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>>50239692
>not needing the 18

bruh

>>50239555
>>50239626
>25 PB is enough for MAD characters

What about people who want to play a Martial without dumping one, even two stats? Not needing an 18 pre-racials is fine, but what about not wanting to have sub-10's?

>>50239745

He's saying 18 after-racial.

20 is an awkward number and not worth the +7 PB.

>>50239765
>20 is an awkward number

For who

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I just found myself in a Rise of the Runelords game in a system other than Pathfinder. My character is a half-vulpinal elf who worships Shelyn and wields psionic powers of extreme agility, combat prowess, clairsentience, and telepathy.

How would I justify a half-vulpinal elf being a half-sibling or a cousin to Ameiko or Shalelu?

>>50239783
i don't know figure that shit out in your system.

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>>50239695

>>50239783
>How would I justify a half-vulpinal elf being a half-sibling or a cousin to Ameiko or Shalelu?

Shalelu got lonely out in the forest and fucked a Kitsune, and the thing that came out a year later was you.

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>>50239845
Half-sibling or cousin, not child.

>>50239761
>needing to dump two stats as a martial

Fucking what?

A Archer Bard, one of the most MAD characters doesn't need that. A human bard is looking at the following at 20pb:

Str: 14
Dex: 18
Con: 14
Int: 10
Wis: 10
Cha: 14

Which is fine.

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>>50236213
Man, Shayliss is so hot. I'd totally devour her brain and then put my body into her skull and revel in my new skin.

>>50239883

Why not? Shalelu's like 100, more than enough time to get Elf Teen Pregnant.

>>50239886
>Archer bard
>MAD

hahaha

>>50239956
Ok, what is more MAD than an archer bard?

An Archer Paladin/Monk multiclass?

>>50239963
Literally just a monk

Or a fighter that dreams of being more than just 'i hit with sword'

>>50239992
>Or a fighter that dreams of being more than just 'i hit with sword'
Shouldn't have picked fighter then.

>>50239992
>monk
>needs Str/Dex/Wis/Con
>archer bard
>needs Str/Dex/Cha/Con
>fighter that wants to be more than "I hit with sword"
>needs Str/Con/Int/Cha

No, you're the retard.

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>>50239897

I thought she'd be chestier, honestly.

>>50240009
>fighters don't need dex

Its called the god stat for a reason, fucktard.

>>50239992
>Human Fighter, 25PB
Str: 18
Dex: 10
Con: 14
Int: 14
Wis: 14
Cha: 10

>6 skill ranks per level with taking FCB in skills
>take skills you want
>maybe even move the wis into cha and be a bit of a face

No seriously, what do you want? 14s in every stat?

This is without taking a single stat below 10.

>>50240024
I let my players apply the higher of dex or int to reflex saves, str or con to fort saves, and wis or cha to will saves; as well, they can use their choice of dex, int, or wis to add to AC natively (anything from class features stays to that stat but explicitly stacks).

Additionally, I let them use int or wis for initiative as well.

>>50240024
>Its called the god stat for a reason, fucktard.
By no one but you.

If you're playing a dex character he doesn't need strength. In Heavy Armor you need a dex mod of 1 until you can afford mithral plate. No seriously, you're being a retard. Try and stop.

>>50239914
Still not a half-sibling or cousin.

>>50240055

I let players add any modifier to any roll they want

>>50240024
>needing a dex mod higher than +1 as a fighter
What?

>>50239897
For some reason, I always feel like these things came from Dark Sun even though I know this to be untrue.

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>>50240010
Pfffft, as long as I get my new lewd body such things won't concern me.

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How do I play a harpy in Pathfinder and grab people with my talons?

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>>50240122

>tfw no Warboys and Immortan Joe in Iron Gods Book 2.

>>50240040
>18 post racial is somehow acceptable.

>>50239992
>Or a fighter that dreams of being more than just 'i hit with sword'

THEN DON'T

PLAY

A FIGHTER

>ITT, people not realizing that the marginal benefits of higher PB are much greater for MAD classes than they are for SAD classes

ayyy

>>50240163
>I need 20 in a stat to be useful
Like I said, I kick optimization arms race players. I'm telling you that you won't need it. If you can't get that through your head then maybe don't play.

>>50240210
>20 in a stat is optimization arms race

Do you have brain damage?

>>50239897
Intellect Devourer please go.

>>50240147
One of these days I want to run an Orcs just fucking shit up in Numeria mad max stye.

>>50240163

I have *never* started with a 20 in any stat for every character I've made, and I've never once been close to what I'd call "useless."

>>50239897
>>50240122

Are you the player that willingly let an intellect devourer take over the body of the Cleric Iconic so that he could waifu her...it...whatever?

that's fucking creepy bro. but also good job

>>50240221
No.

20 is fucking excessive for most things. Like even fullcaster autists are probably better just shoring up a save then just pumping something to twenty.

>>50240221
No, but you clearly do. If you think you need 20 or a stat or are going to be useless your perception of the game is obviously warped beyond repair.

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>>50240255
>Are you the player that willingly let an intellect devourer take over the body of the Cleric Iconic
I'm sorry.

What?

>>50236797

What's happening in January?

>>50239815
Tomb of battle was the savior of 3.5

>>50240267
>>50240275
there's a difference between 'need' and 'is objectively better and helps the longevity of the character into higher levels as other classes will eventually outstrip it regardless of starting statblocks

like you could have a full caster start with 10pb and a martial on 32 pb and the full caster would still be the better character

>>50239783

There are 3 options:
Actually related
Adopted
Sworn brother/sister.

In case of Ameiko, adoption into the family makes the most sense. It might be that she as the (almost) sole survivor of her family recognized you as a legal younger sibling. In Shalelu's case, she does not have a family yet and her parents are afaik dead, so the other two options are better. Your character might have met her while adventuring and sworn some weird elven oath of sister/brotherhood. However, it is also possible that you are related to one of her parents, making you her cousin - perhaps an uncle or an aunt had a tryst with a vulpinal?

BTW,fellow anons, has anyone used the automatic bonus progression? I was thinking of giving it a go if I ran RoW, because of that whole "Black Midnight" making the PCs sort of supernatural.

>>50240302
Yes, having higher stats makes you stronger, we get it steve. You won't need all those stats like I said. Stop being a sperg for 10 seconds and jumping at everyone wearing a bath robe.

>>50238675
Bumpo?

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Hey, so when you trait into a maneuver you get their key skill as a class skill, right?

>>50240341
I'm honestly not sure what exactly you are asking.

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>>50240283
In a Hell's Vengeance game, apparently one of the NPCs the party faced was a couple of the Iconics. One of the players had an intellect devourer as a familiar I guess, and he had it take over Kyra's body. Then he made sweet love to her while Merisiel was forced to watch before the intellect devourer slit her throat using its new body.

Fucking evil games, man.

>>50240362(Me)
And that made it sound like they faced a horrible amalgamation of all the Iconics. Which sounds fucking metal but isn't what I meant, because grammur

>>50240350
yes

>>50240362
How long ago did those two become a thing? Was this place around and if so how did it react?

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>>50240385

Perfect.

How useful would say Veiled Moon is for a more stealthy, espionage-focused ZweiSent?

>>50240360
My character's speed in one move action is 175ft, do I get benefits from it a part of just moving from A to B in less time? I mean, I'm essentially moving at 68 kmph, 136 kmph if I run.

>>50240396
What do you mean, how long was Merisiel and Kyra a lesbo couple? Since the PF comics I guess.

>Was this place around and if so how did it react?

Ehh?

>>50240439
No, you don't get extra power on a charge. However you gain a bonus to acrobatics checks to jump over gaps if you go really fast.

>>50240422
Not worried about ACP?

>>50240439
No, you in fact are way easier to hit if you run than if you stand still, cool right?

>>50240495

Not at all! He's wearing a mithral breastplate, so his ACP's at a cool -1.

Strongest PoW class is what?

>>50240527

Zealot is the strongest, but Warder (Zweihander Sentinel) is the easiest to make overpowered.

>>50240527
Defensively? Warder.

Offensively? That depends on what you're trying to do.

>>50240527
Warder or Zealot

>>50240422
Part of Veiled usefulness is in things like Ghostwalk, Fading Leap and Stance of the Ether Gate. As a Warder, you don't have tons of maneuvers known or readied so the ability to actually get to use them will be limited to feat investment. It's not to say it can't/won't work, just to say that the opportunity cost is pretty high compared to say a stalker or mystic using them.

>>50240527
Mystic
Zealot
Warlord

Warder(Zweihander Sentinal) is a meme.

>>50240362
Wasn't there some picture of one of them getting charmed to make out with the fighter or something?

So I had a bad idea for the Wyvern Rider (finished the Hound Master a few minutes ago). It's based around giving the wyvern money, and the wyvern gets buffs. This money has to be in metal objects, but can be magical gear.

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>>50240564

The character's starting at level 10, and the vast majority of my focus will be on ST, PF, VM and BS (Ordained Defender for dat Wisdom) anyway, I'll have the maneuvers for it.

I'm actually getting turbo-hyped to play this character now, he's like some animus-powered John Wick with a slice of Reaper-tier edge.

>>50240575
>warlord
Strongest at damage and that's mostly due to dual boost memes

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>>50240362
Well that's enough whyboners for me today.

>>50240588
Yeah, Ultimate Intrigue, it was Merisiel I think.

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>>50240544
>>50240575
Zweihander Sentinel unlocks its true potential with Ordained Defender!

>>50240643

Honestly, the only reason I'm going Ordained Defender is to get the Conversion Inquisition so I can tweak out this character's diplomacy stats so he can sweet talk or strong-arm whatever asshole tries to get between him and the location of his next target.

It also helps because it portrays the character as worldly, rather than intelligent.

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What is the best barding or magical equipment to stack on a pair of Wolf companions for my Ranger?