21 Blackjack Street Edition The /btg/ is dead - long live t

First for Butte Hold.

>>50233733
>not RELEASE THE KRAKEN

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Black Jacks are awesome.

>>50233775
No, they're Blackjacks.

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>>50233781
Hush you.

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>>50233781
And don't call me Shirley.

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Repost from other thread:
Used the Shiro last night.
Hardened armor is a hell of a drug

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>>50233733
Needs more Blackjack.

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>>50235692
Here you go.

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>MFW reading the Zellbrigen rules
It may as well be summed up as"let's stand in front of each other and who Alpha Strikes the other better wins"
I hope the other Clan castes don't have to deal with similar silly rules

>>50235932
No one ever accused the Clans of having a culture that makes sense.

>>50236124
>make an improved mech
>give it to the FedSuns
such is life in the 3050s

>>50236459
I think that particular variant is out of production in the Dark Age as well. Even Xi Sheng didn't save it.

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>>50233775
>>50233862
>>50233865
>>50235692
>>50236075
>>50236094
>>50236124
>>50236146
My literal niggas. I thought liking the basic Blackjack made me an oddity.

Have a Blackjack everyone loves.

>>50236459
Don't you mean Federated Commonwealth? :^)

>>50233733
I forget, is there a Blackjack in one of the Mechcommander games? Does it show up in one of the MW1-4 games as well?

>>50237073
>is there a Blackjack in one of the Mechcommander games?

Since it's an original FASA design, you'd think there would be, but I don't ever recall seeing one.

>>50237073
I want to say it might have been in MW2: Mercenaries, since that had like 100 'Mechs or something in it.

>>50237488
Wasn't in the regular game. It may have been in one of the mods that added a shit ton of mechs though.

>>50237505
>>50237505
>Read MW2 as MC2
Apologies for my dumbassery.

>>50237488
Nope, no Blackjack in MW2 Mercenaries.

>>50237488
The Mektek mod added the BJ-O.

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>>50237073
>>50237447

Ah! Forgot to calibrate the WABAC machine. The Blackjack *does* appear in The Crescent Hawk's Revenge!

>>50236560
I legit miss the FedCom. When I got into the game it was *the* faction. There was no clan invasion yet and the 4th Succession War was just history.

>>50237747
Nice catch.
>>50237962
I used to be House Steiner because of the Crescent Hawks games, and loves the FedCom, but then bitch-K had to ruin it and made me move to Davion because I am not playing with whores like that. No way.

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>On 16 February 3072, the 512th Cobra Guards arrived at Niles and declared a unilateral Trial of Reaving against all of the Clan Hells Horses sibkos training in the system. After claiming the victory they took every sibko member from each training facility, lined them up and executed them before leaving the system.

Why did the Clans go full retard in the wars of reaving? The Smoke Jaguars used to be the bad ones, but it's like all the surviving Clans have been striving to outdo them.

>>50238272
The Clans proudly hold themselves to be the heirs of Standardised War Crimes: The Faction.

That they've gone crazy had never been surprising. That it took so long is.

>>50238272
losing to phone company security guards will do that to you

>>50238272
>Why did the Clans go full retard in the wars of reaving?

I don't see what the problem is. If more factions acted like this more often, the post-Star League wars wouldn't have gone on for so long. If more factions acted like this more often, there wouldn't have been a Clan Invasion in the first place (since they'd have killed each other all off). If more factions acted like this more often, we wouldn't have to deal with TCfags or MOCfags because the Periphery would have been completely depopulated like it deserves.

There's not really a downside, and it's pretty stupid that FASA kept the various factions from acting in their own best interests like this. What's amazing is that it took CGL, the Company of Failure, to actually make factions behave rationally for a change.

The LAC-5 BJ is probably one of my favorites. tar comp and ap ammo or scrub driver + precision.

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>>50238532
lol

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Got a story for y'all
>playing Megamek with some newbies
>playing solaris
>last match of the night, tell people to bring whatever looks cool
>I pick a Flamberge, don't remember which, but it was the one with the UAC/20
>blind drop is on, don't know what the others are bringing
>turn 1 begins, see what the others brought
>the other veteran player brings one of the decent charger variants
>the newbie who has been experimenting with MM brings a Neanderthal
>The other newbie brings an Omega
Now the previous game, the charger driver had betrayed the charger and omega drivers when they ganged up on me(I was using hardened armor)
>neanderthal and omega gang up on charger
>I assess the situation and figure if I'm gonna lose might as well do so with style
>Turn 2 begins, I win initiative
>declare DFA on the Omega
>45% chance to hit
>Don't get shot during the weapons fire phase
>DFA lands and does basically no damage
>I fall over
>Omega has been forced from the field
mfw

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>>50239558
How active is the MegaMek community? I always wanted to try it out since I got no friends who like BattleTech
>mfw they say giant robots are not futuristic, only stupid and against all logic

>>50233733
I just discovered the Taurians and they're fucking awesome. Does anyone know if they have any national 'mechs, or favored 'mechs, or the same with tanks? I know that Taurians place more respect for their conventional forces than a lot of the other States (save the FWL) do.

>>50240001
We should have some sort of scheduler or get-together place to set up games online. Could be fun.
>>50239558
Someone made one of those BATTLETECH! posts a few months back about being in a tournament with five tables going, and had an aerospace fighter crash, knock into one mech, causing it to knock into a Marauder which fell into a building and critted it's AC ammo. It was a text of gloriousness.

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>>50240203
>It was a text of gloriousness.

It was NEA. As usual.

>>50240427
fucking Snow Ravens

>>50238712
>bismuthedges.tga

>>50240152
They're pretty BA but in the current era they don't really have any distinctive mech designs of their own. I think they just build SL era stuff.

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>>50240427

There must be some kind of method to this madness in BT that allows this kind of shit to happen. It's like a graceful trainwreck of RNG that culminated into this extremely unlikely yet hilarious series of events.

>>50240552
Which are Snow Ravens?

>>50240625
MUH AEROSPACE

>>50240625

do you want legit answer or bullshit meme answer that might make the empty husk of a human being that is you laugh

>>50241377
Why not both, nigga? It's a slow thread right now.

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>>50241426
>It's a slow thread right now.

Boy, I'll say!

>>50233733
Hey CampaignAnon, could you be so kind as to stat me up a Zaku II as a 55- or 60-tonner? I know the Gundam lore lists it as something like 80 tons, but it acts more like a medium mech, and I doubt anyone here takes the listed weights as literal truth.

So I think I'm reading this right, but I just want to check - I can make a mech with Hardened armor on the head and torso and normal armor on the legs, and don't suffer the -1 PSR from the Hardened?

Why doesn't everyone make Mechs like that?

>>50241600
Wanna play earth side gundam? Get you some mechs like around 80 tons or so, whatever you like. We just made sure they went 3/5/3. Clad them in BAR 5 armor, with medium lasers getting a +1 damage at short range.

GM's Beam Spray gun=Medium Laser
Zaku Machinegun=AC/5
Gundam's Beam Rifle= Large Laser
Bazooka's were AC/10s
Zaku Leg Missiles were OS SRM-6s

Throw in half a ton or so of machinegun ammo in the central torso for appropriately explosive reactors.

With this setup beam weapons are appropriately going through armor. Balancing forces is a little tricky, but Feddies should be rolling with more tanks to make forces appropriate.

>>50241743
I was mostly just curious to see how he'd build one using Battletech rules. Thanks for the suggestion though, I'll keep it in mind if I have players who ever want to play Gundam.

>>50241811
Honestly I can't see it being much more than a RAC-5 and a hatchet on legs with jumpjets. Speed is problematic seeing how it's supposed to sprint at 100+ km/h. XL engine would reflect that and some of the center torso fragility since in Gundam it seems hits to the core = dead mobile suit.

>>50241882
Actually now that I think on it, stick a hatchet on one of these. http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Legionnaire

>>50241882
I must protest to the idea of them being made of explodium, as Gundams are often shooting at them with beam weapons capable of going through battleship plate.

Though to keep in mind with the speed, it might be beneficial to stat them as 40- or 45-tonners. This might even give them a bit of fragility, memes be damned.

>>50240152
Well, they *used* to have a national mech in the form of the Toro, but it's extinct by the eras where most people play the game. Other than that, their preferred mechs are also some of the most common ones, with a slight preference for heavier and multirole mechs

>>50241743
>beam spray guns are more powerful than Beam Rifles
make it Blazer vs PPC

>>50241998
That's kinda holding to the fluff about the Beam Spray Guns. Up close they blasted bigger holes than the beam rifle and were cheaper to make. Gundam had the range to reach out and touch someone. Make it an ER Large Laser if you feel it more appropriate.
>>50241947
I dunno man. We never really see Mobile Suits surviving shots to the torso. Unless someone plot important is piloting it they seem far more volatile than a Battlemech that isn't carrying internal ammo.

>>50242171

Mobile suits always felt a little silly in that regard. "Hey, I nicked it!" *KABOOM* "Onto the next use of our animation budget!"

>>50242217
Well considering their weapons started off meant to kill warships and then beam weaponry came along and it proved impossible to armor one against them they turned out like post war tanks when faced with shaped charges. One and done. Plus all that propellant for Delta-V means you've got a pretty neat bomb even nicking a limb.

>>50242171
More recent series have helped that. Gundam 00 showed grunt mechs survive after the explosion unless they were hit by massive cannon. Unicorn shows some of the same, as does Build Fighters and Thunderbolt. In fact, Thunderbolt has a particularly neat scene where after the fight with lots of explosions, there are a ton of floating Jims. Their explosions from lost limbs and whatnot made it look like the entire mobile suits had exploded, when in fact Thunderbolt felt like it was poking fun at their budget by showing Jims with normal-looking post-loss battle damage floating about.

>Gundumb

I know BT has its issues, but holy shit people.

>>50242517
Have anything better to contribute?

>>50242217
Fang of the Sun Dougram was a little one-shot-kill all of the time, when at times the machine Dougram would take a pounding from other combat armor's linear guns. (What the hell is a linear gun in that series anyway? Is it an energy weapon, because it seems that way.)
But yeah, Gundams and Zakus and such seem delicate.

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>>50236124
I just realized that the Hatchetman's head is shaped like a little VTOL because it has a full head ejection system.

>>50242615
I imagine a linear magnetic accelerator like is used on a maglev train. Just in this case it's hurling a bullet instead of a train car.

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>>50242627
>>50242661

>>50238272
>Why did the Clans go full retard in the wars of reaving?
They were twenty (at the start) bickering and competing factions, taught to utterly hate each other while being glued together only by the Kerensky cult of personality, told that only killers have any social value, conditioned to solve even the mildest of inter-personal or inter-factional disputes with brutality and violence, and led by people selected through ritual combat.
The Clans were *always* primed to wipe themselves out in that kind of mutually-genocidal murderfest. Only two things surprised me about the Wars of Reaving:
- that they didn't happen two centuries before the Clans ever appeared in canon
- that *any* Clan actually survived the carnage

Hey guy making family trees, add the hitosume kozo to the Hunchback tree.

>>50238272

>Why did the Clans go full retard in the wars of reaving?

Contact with the Inner Sphere was the tipping point.

No, really, In the Homeworlds they never had the population and resources to to go through with a major war, especially since the Trial system was designed to limit the assets and level of escalation used in open warfare.

But the the Invasion happens and the richer Clans become insanely rich, causing a power vacuum back home where their holdings start getting snapped up and they stop caring because they have their OZs. This starts to increase the power of certain Homeworld Clans to the point that they can sustain an all-out war.

Then you get things like the Refusal War, Absorption War, and Bulldog/Serpent showing everyone that sticking to the mutually agreed-upon rules doesn't matter, as long as you can win. Also that completely wiping out your enemies is really goddamn satisfying.

What clantech components do the Dracs have access to after taking over the Nova Cat stuff? Running a DA campaign and my players, who have just wrapped up a short stint against the Wolf Empire, want to get out of dodge. They have a few captured Clan mechs and I'm wondering about the viability of repairing them over on that side of the sphere.

>>50235932
Eh, if you go for the simplest reading of the rules, I can see that happening. However, Clan duels are supposed to be pretty showy (not Solaris level, but still) tests of combat ability, so spicing things up with mobility and long-range gunnery is probably encouraged. Just don't melee or backstab, and we cool.

>>50235947
I dunno, the Clans make sense for a society of fascist techno-barbarians centered around ancestor worship and the edicts set by a crazy guy who thought ritualistic battles were the pinnacle of human interaction.

>>50243186

What survived the Bears and Dracs isn't really clear, and the Cats deliberately scuttling the factories as their last fuck you to the Dracs is hardly unlikely.

Basically I would have a look at the MUL and the 3145 TRs. Also note that Clan tech is a lot more common then than in previous eras thanks to the Sharks even if the Cats were very stingy with trading their stuff away.

And worst comes to worst there's ExoStar Pinnacle just over the other side of the border which is an IS facility that can fabricate Clan-level energy weapons.

>>50241600
Sure, let me wake up some more and start dinner.

>>50243186
Probably a fair amount. Several factories on Irece are noted as being given to LAW, and while the Combine probably didn't hesitate to salt the earth in their own way, the chance to upgrade more of their factories to Clan tech status wouldn't go amiss. As for Mercenaries getting Clan gear? Incredibly unlikely with the invasion of the FS going on. Your better option is going to the Foxes or something.

>>50243360
I appreciate it, broski. I definitely think a 55-tonner would be the better.

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>>50243360
>>50243425
Boop. Zaku. Commercial armor since Zaku II armor is explicitly steel, LAC/5 to fit the shield on the arm. I didn't add the missiles or make a Bazooka variant because, well that's not a standard mook Zaku.

>>50243360
It's mainly them getting Clan endo, DHS, ferro, and maybe some lasers or something, not whole new machines. Even if they can only get a few tons of it, it'll help.

>>50243448
Awesome. Thank you. Two questions: What would your suggestion be for converting this to the bazooka variant? And does the "Commercial," aspect of its armor mean anything in particular?

If I have a mech with one JJ, can I jump up from level 0 to level 3 or higher? Where are rules for that?

>>50243528
You can jump as high as your number of jumpjets. This does not effect your lateral distance. So a 5/8/5 can jump from flat ground to the top of a level 5 building 5 hexes away.

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>>50243460
I could probably see Ferro and the lasers. Endo is still orbital factory bound, a fact which is completely glossed over by several sources, so that might be tricky. If the Dracs were to sell it, it wouldn't be cheap, since the only confirmed DCMS Clan mech with Clan ES is the Wendigo, and that's a medium. DHS would probably go to frontline units, because Clan DHS are tops. As always, actual item production is never really described, and if I thought it would help, I'd beat Xotl with a rubber chicken to get the official factory listing in the DA.

>>50243514
Well if you drop the medium shield (which you would have to do to fit the AC/10 in the arm), you could do this.

>And does the "Commercial," aspect of its armor mean anything in particular?
The BAR 5 number after the type tells you the Barrier Armor Rating. Anything under 10/Standard armor means that if an attack does more than that number you take the chance of a penetrating critical hit.

>>50243593
Awesome, thank you.

>AC/10
Any particular reasoning? Was it because you couldn't fit something heavier and explodier, like a PPC, or does typical /bfg/ thinking determine it to be about AC/10-tier?

>>50243448
Out of curiosity, how would this do in a fight?

>>50243656
Well I was going off someone's statement upthread about the Bazooka being an AC/10. If anything, I'd probably swap to a Thunderbolt 15, so it's actually firing a missile. It has 8 shots, which are admittedly 2 less than the double 5 shot magazines a Zaku bazooka is seen as having. but does more damage.

>>50243687
Anything with a Large Laser will beat it stupid. Penetrating crits are a hell of a drug.

>>50243687
Do in a fight against what? I could tear apart a lance of them with a single grogtech Pixie.

>>50243713
>Thunderbolt 15
I didn't know what this was until I looked it up. It's fucking amazing how many different weapons this franchise has.

>penetrating crits are a hell of a drug
Fits in with the Gundam meme-tier explodium animation.

>>50243730
An equivalent 55-tonner. Realistically, looking at it doesn't give me a ton of confidence, but mostly because of what its armor acts like. I was going to say "it looks kind of cheap, so at least that's nice," but then I noticed that it's about 2 mil more than a starting SHD which could probably beat it in a straight-up duel. They'd be super reliant on their shields to stay alive.

>>50243687
It might actually loose to a shadow hawk-2D

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MFW I thought the hound was a meme.

That thing is a seriously awesome mech.

>>50238272
- Sore losers like Steel Vipers and Ice Hellions for one, both clans got ejected from IS by other clans, so when Steel Vipers Khan got elected as IlKhan, the among the first thing he do is claimed especially those has holdings in IS are tainted.
- Scientist caste long term machination - the Society of controlling the Clans from the shadow and playing with Clans's gens got exposed by Jade Falcon agent Peri Watson, thus giving weight to Vipers' claims of taint, and the main backer of Society, Coyotes get most flaks, surprisingly those Coyotes even survived the aftermath.
- Leading to mad culling of so-called tainted bloodlines and scramble for founder Kerensky's legacy and bodies that all Clans envied and desired to have, which Vlad had his Wolf Watch to steal and faked evidence those legacies were destroyed.
- In the end most of the Clans that has holdings or OZ in IS were ejected totally from clans space or destroyed like Ice Hellion or re-branded like Hell Horse into Stone Lion. Ironically, Steel Vipers were also destroyed as Star Adders also pointed out to rest of the clans, that Steel Vipers for a period of time was in IS thus can be considered tainted.

>>50238272
Honestly mang, why didn't they earlier?

I don't in any way expect one of the most blatantly warrior cultures in science fiction to hold itself in check; especially after getting their asses kicked by religious telephone operators with no real previous combat experience proved that the thin rules keeping them from going murderfuck-psycho weren't actually worth the trouble.

Especially-especially after that same rude awakening exposed how their super awesome warrior culture was incapable of maintaining a full war without destroying itself. That must have been one hell of an experience.

>>50244073

Even the strong Clans weren't strong enough to deal with a serious challenge from three or four lesser Clans who ganged up on them, and there wasn't anywhere else to go (except maybe back to the IS).

But after the mid-3050s you get the rise of massive Clans like the Star Adders while others weaken themselves, and the most powerful Clans are already in the IS, far from retribution so they give few to no fucks about what's happening in the Homeworlds.

In that environment the Chicken-Bone Defence and Piranha Principle no longer apply and they start acting on long-held grudges. Before that they'd fume and mouth off but not actually be able to follow through on anything because it would invite a stomping they couldn't survive.

>>50244073
The homeworlds didn't get their ass kicked by Blakestar. The IS clans did, and only had to console themselves with...wait for it...literally fifty times the riches and resources that they had back in the homeworlds.

Reaving was about a bunch of people assmad that they're stuck on the barely habitable rocks of the Kerensky Cluster while the other people who were barely better than them are now swimming in wealth untold. And then they get double assmad when those people cockblock them from doing the same thing.

And do you know whose fault that all is? Comstar and fucking Waterly. If they hadn't spent so much time rolling out the welcome mat for the clans and helping those tubebabies secure their OZ's before they discovered the final goal was Terra, the Clans wouldn't have had such a massive foothold and there wouldn't be such a division between them and the Homeworlders.

The IS clans became so rich they didn't need to play by the rules anymore that the Clan system depended on.

>>50243818
>It's fucking amazing how many different weapons this franchise has.

There really aren't that many, unless you count every variation as a separate one. See, the thing is that virtually every BT weapons conforms to the same rules - range brackets, does damage the same way (i.e., a missile marks off dots of armor just like a laser does).

If you start getting into ammo types things spice up a little, but still. Most BT weapons are the same. There's no practical difference in the effect a Gauss Rifle has when compared to a Thunderbolt missile, or a HPPC.

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Hey Naval Nerds. Got a question for you.

Whats the deal with this thing and its Naval Tug Adaptor? I've never seen that piece of equipment before and I'd love to know what it does.

If it does half of what I think it can probably do it'd probably make a great boarding vessel for capturing jump ships.

>>50244452
>There's no practical difference in the effect a Gauss Rifle has when compared to a Thunderbolt missile, or a HPPC.
Different special rules don't change anything? One of those explodes when shot, one uses explosive ammo and is a missile, the last has none of the above. I'd say that the weapons are differentiated enough to have unique feels and to justify their existences.

>>50244494
His point is that what they actually do is pretty much identical for most of the weapons. What's the difference between a Thunderbolt 15, a Gauss Rifle, and an HPPC shot hitting a target? Nothing.

>>50243584
The one thing is that even one jump jet can let you safely drop down any number of levels, including hot drops from a dropship.

>>50244488
The rules for the Naval Tug Adaptor are in TacOps. Additionally, you can't drag a ship around that is resisting your attempt by spending Thrust points.

>>50244519
Then he made his point poorly. I ultimately agree with it though, thanks for the clarification.

>>50244488

>I've never seen that piece of equipment before and I'd love to know what it does.

It's basically a fluff item for support units to do salvage or rescue stricken vessels.

You can't offensively grapple things and then spew marines into the target so they're useless for combat.

>>50244531

Hmm...guess I shouldn't be surprised its in TacOps. There are still parts of that book i've not touched.

Its interesting rules wise. Not all that knowledgeable about naval matters in BT but even from what I know i'm not all that impressed with it. Pity.

There any actual use for it that you can see?

>>50244586
Fluff, as >>50244579 said. It's not great for much else.

>>50244595

Pity. Thank you both for your prompt and knowledgeable responses.

>>50244595

What gets me the most about it is that if you could use it in combat it would actually have some purpose. Grappling targets to launch boarding parties is already as hard as fuck to pull off when the target is resisting, and all this would really do is increase the size of vessels that could reasonably carry it out.

Of course then you just *know* that someone, somewhere, is going to make squadrons of 5/8 100 KT blob of armour packed to the gills with assault suits that nobody can kill using canon designs but can spam enough marines to take over any ship.

>>50244662
>Of course then you just *know* that someone, somewhere, is going to make squadrons of 5/8 100 KT blob of armour packed to the gills with assault suits that nobody can kill using canon designs but can spam enough marines to take over any ship.

Thera II: This Time We're A Mobile Infantry Carrier

>purple eagle noises intensify

>>50244684

It would have to be >arctic covidae noises intensify, given they're the only ones with a Thera that works.

And given how much the Bears love elementals, like fuck I wanna see a Leviathan IV built around this principle.

>Captcha: GLEBE PLEASE

Granted this might be funnier if you're an NRL fan.

>>50243969
>reads like a sarna article

>>50244703
Hey, we still have a Thera, it's just taking a nap.

>select squares with street signs
>literally every square has a street sign

Uh...ok?

>>50244732

This is why we use Legacy Captcha.

Mostly it's just something CALLE.

No shit my capture for this is CALLE STREET.

Ug, can anyone please explain why randybobandy is still in charge? Hes all fail

>>50245654
The man needs to focus on Battletech or find someone who will. They could even go dig Herb out from under whatever rock he's under.

>>50243448
>Zaku II armor is explicitly steel
Holy shit what
Gotta source?

>>50245654
What's he done now?

Just how rare is the Mackie in around 3025? I know they're supposed to be fuck-all anywhere, but I got a super crush for the damn thing and want to use one for the FRR. Donated from Comstar could be an excuse above the obvious inheritance or a rare find dug up from a swamp and restored?

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>>50241600
>>50243448
>>50245785
Not campaign-anon, but I made a 45-tonner variant.

>>50245819

>Just how rare is the Mackie in around 3025?

Very. It's a museum piece. There might be one operational somewhere but the odds of running into one are abysmally low.

>>50245819
Literally extinct outside of museums. You'll really enjoy the original Black Widow company book though, where the goons go to raid some shithole for parts and the local boys bring a couple of museum mackies back online to defend themselves. And the mackies have all the same problems of a car that's been left to sit for thirty or forty years. Bad seals, overheating, shitty electrical problems.

It's just great.

>>50245881

Welp, I was wondering what BT novel to start with anyway, might see if I can find this one.

Battle for Berlin 2: Space Boogaloo sounds like fun.

>>50245874
I think they said there were only two examples still around in the first TRO it was published in, Both were out of service, and one of them was a display piece at a university somewhere. Maybe NAIS?

>>50245874
>>50245881


Well that's a dream crushed. And I assume no revival of designs were ever made?

When did it go extinct anyway? Early or late in the Succession Wars?

>>50245819
The only known Mackies to exist around then were museum pieces, two of which were prototype models were still functional enough to fight against the Black Widows on Proserpina.

Tales of the Black Widows actually states them to be the last two in existence, but that could just mean the last two 5S. I don't think TPTB considered the idea of production runs of other Mackies until years later.

Either way rare as fuck, but given modern fluff and the way BT works in general, it wouldn't be impossible for a few to be still stomping around, particularly 7As being all introtech, and the 8B has CASE as the only piece of SL tech.

>>50245910
>When did it go extinct anyway? Early or late in the Succession Wars?

The thing was relegated to Terran Hegemony Militia way before that, back in the heyday of the Star League. Then Kerensky took all the remaining semi-modern upgraded ones with him when he fucked off with his furry son and the SLDF. They were never around in the Succession Wars.

>tfw I just realized they removed the Mackie from TRO3058 when they made 3058U


>>50245959
>it wouldn't be impossible for a few to be still stomping around

TRO:3058 specifically states no known inner sphere or periphery unit, house or mercenary is known to have a functional Mackie

>>50245785
Half the material for the Zaku II I've ever seen calls its armor a "Super Hard Steel Alloy." The original 0079 material just called it Steel. No Luna Titanium for Zeon.

>>50245910
The New Dallas memory core found in the Jihad had the technical specifications, but no one ever really put it back into production, no.

>When did it go extinct anyway? Early or late in the Succession Wars?
Pretty much the moment the SLDF left the IS. The rest of the Houses had already phased out the design, and even the Terran Hegemony had pushed it to militia units by 2750. And the one in Twilight of the Clans - Freebirth was implied to be the last one in Clan space, too.

>>50245910
>When did it go extinct anyway? Early or late in the Succession Wars?
Most of them got wrecked during the Amaris war, actually. Even the upgraded models were still militia units. and Amaris used the Skobel lines for shinier new mechs, and since none of the houses had any left and Comstar wasn't in the mind to build new stuff at the time, it never got resurrected.

>>50245975
>The New Dallas memory core found in the Jihad had the technical specifications, but no one ever really put it back into production, no.

The Lyrans did, the OG 5S. It was during the time the Blakists held Hesperus IIRC.

And the Regulans made the 6S at Harmony, one again proving they are the most worthy to lead the FWL

>>50246030
Goddammit, LCAF. You had ONE JOB. Upgrade the fucking thing, not make the original. And the purple burds continue to try and be cool and fail miserably. Good job.

>>50246050
No like anybody could build something better at a bunch of shitty tractor plants.

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>>50245959
>>50245971
>>50245975

Thanks a bunch for the answers, I might make vets raise a brow if I decide to go with one anyway, but now I know it's not a canonically sound choice.

While I got you on the phone, I'm considering starting a couple of lances for play with friends (not fair I'm the only one playing this), blue being Drac, and red being FedSun. Good list or bad list?

>>50245971
>TRO:3058 specifically states no known inner sphere or periphery unit, house or mercenary is known to have a functional Mackie

And that's the trick, "known". A dug up and restored scenario like anon proposed isn't outside the realm of possibly for BT, as long as he isn;t trying to bring a lance of the things. Though more likely than a swamp like would be the standard SL cache scenario, maybe getting a couple non functional ones that with enough TLC and time can be pieced together to get one working machine.

It's definitely more a campaign thing n that regard, and I would certainly have a backup assault to take its place in a pick up game in case somebody gets bent out of shape about it.

>>50246108
Yeah. My point is that it's rarer than functioning LAM's. Like, even rarer than a Shogun in 3067. That's the sheer unavailable rarity. When you can find Kerensky's own Orion floating abandoned in space, anything is possible. But possible and probable are two wholly different things.

It's important to keep that in mind as most people will give a free bullshit card or two, but a Mackie burns pretty much all your bullshit points so you have none left to spend on anything else.

>>50246166

Yeah, as the Anon asking the question, I just wanted to make sure. Following the rules of the setting is important, even if bending a bit of the logic to make a fun idea happen, outright breaking suspension of disbelief is just the same as ignoring the setting for what looks cool.

I'm not interested in being "that guy".

>>50246242
>I'm not interested in being "that guy".
In many ways that depends on the specifics of the game and who you're playing it with.

I mean, sometimes you run in super fluffy campaigns, or just with people who demand maximum fluff at all times, but some folks just want to put some mechs on the table and have at it sometimes, with era being considered mainly for determining the tech levels for balance's sake. Though nowadays the options for earlier era play are also more robust than they once were, so there's lots of info available to run a Star League militia force for when you want to get your Mack on, so you can try and push the fluff conscious in those directions at least from time to time.

The biggest thing overall is to simply beware munchkinism.

redpill me on the Battlemaster
it seems nice, but I feel like it needs a second PPC or big gun
The gauss variant it's cool

>>50246761

It's not meant to be a stand-off assault like the Banshee-S or whatever.

It's a brawler with the PPC there to be used as you close in, then spam your MLs and punch or kick shit.

>>50246794
It's also pretty tough for introtech. A lot of 3025 assaults pay the price for their speed and AC/20s by having less armor than a 65 ton Thud.

>>50246761

If you want PPCs as a standoff weapon, use an AWS-8Q. If you wanna have a PPC to cover you while you get close enough to stomp the shit outta anything that moves while being a heavily armored medium laser disco ball, you use a Battlemaster.

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>>50246794
>>50246889
And medium lasers aside, you also have the SRM 6 with two tons of ammo, so you can have happy fun alt munition times without sacrificing standard ones.

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>>50246955

That and you've got machine guns to boot on the base -1G. Anti-infantry work and great crit seeking between the two.

>>50246955
>>50247008
>>50247008
I like to replace the MGs with Flamers and loading up the SRM 6 with infernos. It makes things so much more interesting when everything is on fire and there is smoke cover everywhere.

>>50246761
When DHS roll around, I just rip seven heat sinks off, give it a second standard PPC, and double the rest for a quick field modification. But the others' notes about how to use the Battlemaster is correct. A Battlemaster is used to get in somebody's face pretty much.

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>>50246761
It's an excellent trolling tool when your players are expecting the SLDF Red Corsair variant.

>>50247213

I was tooling around with BLRs last night, you can get a second LB-10 with half a ton less than full armour if you go to an XL engine.

>>50247213
Go to sleep or come look at this mech

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>>50247224
Yes, but now you have a fragile, expensive, IS XLFE. And what's basically a lighter Emperor. In return, have a Blakist Beemer.

Pretty meh design

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And this thing, which I uh, don't remember the genesis of its creation. I think it was an SLDF sniper/command unit.

>>50247237
>Blakist Beemer

The Bleamer!

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You want blakist? I'll show you blakes light.

The only way this could be more blake is if it were a super heavy with with "Kerenskys mother was a surat!" written on the side

>>50247365
So uh...you might like one of the mechs that's in the TRO standby folder. Keep an eye out to see if it makes it in.

>>50247224
What about the Alliance?
Seems like an interesting concept, basically an introtech Legacy built in a 100t Battlemaster chassis
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Alliance_(BattleMech)
Has anyone tried to make a proper RS of this guy?

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>>50247461

Non-canon design is non-canon, and it's not like the FedSuns/FedCom needs yet another fucking 100-ton beatstick.

Personally I'd have liked to have seen the Suns experiment with A/C-using designs in the eras where they purportedly loved them. Stuff like this or a T-Bolt-9NAIS with an LB-X and slightly tweaked armament, Marauders with two LB-Xs and so on.

>>50247577
The Feddie love of ACs is really just a meme, most of their refits actually involve taking the ACs OFF and replacing them with some combination of lasers, armor, and sinks,

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>>50247577
>Shotgun Marauder
I'm ok with this, but I think it may be too similar to the Bandersnatch

Sharing this introtech variant one of you guys did

>>50247603

I know, hence my point.

It's not like any of the ones I posted are actually *bad* either, they're pretty good but at least aren't "Oh look, yet another Gaussboat/flashbulb zombie" like we did get.

>>50238532
>Mall Ninjas defeated the Furries

Epic, have all my Internets.

>>50244314
>And do you know whose fault that all is? Comstar and fucking Waterly.

How much of a difference did Waterly's actions really make? It was still going to be the spearhead of the Clans going up against periphery garrisons in the first four waves.

>>50247960
Comstar took over all transition and administrative duties for the clans, showed them how to run inner sphere planets without the natives revolting, purposefully blocked intel from those planets from going to the Houses. The Clans would have had their hands a lot more full with administrative bullshit and riots, and the Houses would have been a lot less in the dark if Comstar wasn't being retarded.

What's kind of interesting is that the Clans worked with Comstar in the first place. But I guess from their perspective, Comstar was the last piece of the real Star League, and restoring the Star League was the big goal of Revival.

>>50248004
I guess what I'm saying is, what appreciable difference would it have made if ComStar hadn't cooperated? The Clans had no problems with administrative stuff after ComStar stopped, nor did ComStar's presence noticeably prevent revolts.

>>50248004
>But I guess from their perspective, Comstar was the last piece of the real Star League, and restoring the Star League was the big goal of Revival.
"Pfft, these great house losers have no respect for the great Star League that got them where they- who is this Comm-star?"
"Y-you like the Star League too?"

Total Leagaboos nerding it up together at first.

>>50248043
The one thing the Clans don't have is people. Their populations are teeny tiny. You could stick all of them on a single garden world with room to spare. They simply don't have the numbers to administrate.

Whereas Comstar isn't just the interstellar call center, they're also your cable provider, your mailman, your local international bank.

The novels highlighted how the Clans didn't understand shit about dealing with the IS in the beginning and just expected them to all fall in line like homeworld lesser castes. They learned otherwise by the end of the invasion, but only because they learned so well from what Comstar taught them.

In reply to all the Mackie comments, my players did find one...Sorta. It was a dressed up Industrial Mech for filming a movie. They were pissed when they found out it wasn't the real deal.

>>50248061
Makes me wonder what they thought of the ComGuard when they first saw it lingering around HPG compounds.

Not as if they respected it per se, but the sight of all those pristine Star League era 'Mechs painted white. If it made any impression.

I would really *love* to get a Brush Wars II that had a section for Operation Scorpion, or at least its highlights. Sure, the ComGuard left behind in the OZs were seriously lacking in equipment as far as we know, and they were apparently supplemented with ROM forces, but they seemed to have caused some hiccups here and there for the Clans. I'd love to read more about it, see what the ComGuard guys involved thought of it, what their fates were if they survived, how some of those fights between ComGuard conventional forces vs provisional garrison clusters went, etc.

Lost Destiny had a cool part when Vic & Company were heading in to Teniente to save Hohiro:
>Galen's monitor beeped again. "Go ahead, Kunkai."

>"Roger, Foresight. Because of Operation Scorpion, the demi-Precentor is exercising an Alpha priority override of your mission. Your orders say you've got troops on board and we want them delivered at 45.33 north, 2.10 west. We could really use the help. We have you ETA forty-eight hours, correct?"

>In the background Victor heard some muffled explosions. He looked over at Galen and shrugged his shoulders. I wonder ... ?

>Galen let his voice drop an octave into a growl. "Have problems with Kurita insurgents, Kunkai?"

>"Kurita? I wish." The man's voice became strained as an explosion sounded louder. "Some damned Clan commander had his people out on surprise maneuvers earlier this week. When we went to round them up, they were gone." Another explosion resonated through the cabin. "Now they're mad."

>"Roger, Kunkai. We're on our way. Peace of Blake be with you. Foresight out."

>Victor's mind reeled. ComStar is fighting the Clans? Just our luck to be using "ComStar" ships to pull off this rescue.

>>50248061

Apparently Kerensky's writings said there'd be people who'd help out if the Clans returned. ComStar was thought to fit the bill.

>>50246095
>Good list or bad list
Hmm. Overall, doesn't look bad to me. There are a few outliers which look like refits belonging to different factions, but it's not just a major deal.

At first glance, I'd call it fair and very believable, If you can playtest it, all the better. I've kind of got the feeling that the Cyclops' AC20 will be a game-changer, but the Davion Marauder is a flashbulb with good bracketing.

I will say though, that the Davion side does have a little bit more of a mobility advantage on rough terrain, but Kurita side seems to have the durability advantage. Depending on what maps you roll up, it could slide things one way or another.

Gotta say though, this does strengthen my faith in the BV system. That you managed to balance the tonnage as well is pretty impressive.

>>50246761
>third "redpill me" faggotry post in the last few days

Why don't you ask questions like normal people?

>>50248562

>asking questions on 4chan
>normal people
>REEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>50248061
What i dont get is why comstar decided to throw a fit when they found out the clans were after Terra.

It should have been obvious from the very beginning that their goal was Terra. I mean, what else were they gonna do, take every planet EXCEPT Terra? Then what?

Secondly, Comstar was totally fine with the idea of the clans taking over the planets because they would simply provide communication services to them like what would happen when planets changed hands under the great houses. From their point of view, the owner changing didnt make any difference. So why wasnt comstar on board with the idea of letting the clans take terra and then becoming the new star league communication ministry like before?

>>50245819
>>50245874
>>50245881
>>50245908
>>50245959
>>50246108
FM:FWL had a league unit operating one as late as 3042, at which point they put it in a museum. I don't see any huge problem with a mercenary unit having one in 3025, so long as it's gone by '58, which is when the "no known remaining mackies in service" statement is made

>>50249166

>What i dont get is why comstar decided to throw a fit when they found out the clans were after Terra.

They thought they could use the Clans to shatter the power of the Houses and then sweep up the pieces afterwards in accordance with the prophecies of Blake.

When they realised the Clans actually had the power to conquer the Sphere and then hold it (and make no mistake, prior to Tukayyid they really did- the IS' resistance to their advance was shambolic at best, and the Clans had more than enough at home to go all-in and completely stomp the IS given the way things were going to that point, this being a very real worry for the House Lords) they knew it wasn't going to shake out like they'd hoped.

>>50249166
I gather Waterly was banking on the Clans going after the Houses themselves, and bringing about a great clash that would leave all sides in ashes and thus allow ComStar under her rule to save humanity.

>>50249252
Good point.

>>50242517
>hating on good sci-fi
Your bias is showing

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Was it ever revealed what happened to those Nova Cat clusters that took off during the first Combine-Dominion War?

>>50249252
I just read that entry, and it actually says that the 1st fusilier's mackie was "one of the few operational mackies in the inner sphere", implying that at least as of 3042, it wasn't the only one in the inner sphere, let alone the periphery (where I feel like archaic gear like the mackie would have held on perhaps a bit longer)

>>50249456
Kisho is still currently lost in the void. As in, nobody has seen fit to remember him and tell us what became of all of them. TPTB will probably be reminded eventually, and go "space kraken, lolololol"

>>50249259
>>50249274
Didnt one of the books say that Comstar didnt care who ruled the inner sphere as long as they could provide their services?

>>50249456
>CGL
>remembering loose ends

>>50249742
That sounds correct

>>50248562
They haven't been the same three people. I have no idea who that last guy was, but I was the one asking about Taurians.

It's 4chan, dude. Kind of comes with the package sometimes.

>>50249742
>>50249753

That was definitely their public, neutral facade.

Behind the scenes it was always waiting for the collapse of humanity, accelerating the collapse whenever possible, and then sweeping in once things had completely fallen apart to rule over humanity as a theocracy.

>>50249844
>tfw you realize ComStar was geared towards "the Happening" and hating everyone who is different
... ComStar was BattleTech's /pol/

>>50249844
>Behind the scenes it was always waiting for the collapse of humanity, accelerating the collapse whenever possible
IIRC it was a few Primuses in before they decided the IS was taking too long to bomb itself back into the Stone Age and needed an extra push.

I think Blake was just "Let's hoard thsi stuff so humanity doesn't have to rebuild from scratch", Toyama was "We do what Blake said (PRAISE HIM) and then we rule humanity too!", and then it was Karpov or somebody who decided to get Holy Shroud going. So not technically always, though certainly for most of its existence.

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>>50250015
Without justifying it I suppose I can see the ComStar/Blakist PoV. I mean the Great Houses are waging crazy warfare for decades, killing billions in the meantime, while ComStar is powerless to stop them. I can see some of them thinking, "Wait till they've exhausted themselves, and we'll save the remnants of humanity."

>>50250076
I mean, blake's original plan was perfectly reasonable, it's just the usual issue with his successors going power-mad

Okay, if I know nothing about Battletech rules at all, how do I get into doing MegaMek? IS there a good guide for newbies?

>>50250724
If you want rules look at the first post and download total warfare from one of the mediafire things. However if you are familiar with the video games, there is a surprising amount of knowledge that transfers over, so if you have played them you basically already know the ups and downs of things like ferro-fiberous, endo-steel, and standard vs XL engines. As well as the different damages of weapons, their range brackets, and heat generation.

Mega Mek basically does the number crunching and all that shit for you, so all you need to do is tell your units to move and shoot. That's how I got into battletech, always loved the games since MechWarrior 2 and heard about megamek one day so I decided to give it a try with no prior rule knowledge. Ended up loving it and got into playing the actual physical game.

You can always toss yourself in like I did but be sure to check out total warfare. Since megamek does all the rolls, you end up missing a ton of the stuff that happens in the background.

>>50233733
How much do mercenary company contracts go for?

>>50251196
There are multiple options. A percentage of your payroll or total unit price is generally the go to. Look at Field Manual: Mercenaries Revised or Campaign Operations for some more options.

>>50250076
Sauce on the qt?

>>50251196
Typically a percentage (usually 120-200%) of the unit's payroll, plus a variable portion of expenses.

>>50223964
What about the Steel Vipers and Nova Cats? What would they be swimming in/spamming for mechs then?

>>50250724
I got into battletech with megamek too. My suggestion is to find the quickstart rules online (googling battletech quickstart should work).

Then play through the scenarios presented there with a bot (the map you want is openterrain2 in megamek). The bot will probably win most of the time, but it'll teach you how to move and shoot.

After that you can get Total Warfare from the OP, and learn the rest of the rules.

>>50233733
Do you guys know where I would look if I want miniature sculpts of the MWO designs?

>>50251587
There's a Russian dude releasing resins. Just google it.

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>>50251587
hansa of the war.

I'll leave it to you to piece together the clue.

>>50249296
>>50249457
Different anon here, but any thoughts on the number and distribution of the last few mackies as of 3025?

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>>50247423
Blake eleison

>>50247365
>>50247423
>>50252758
>tfw you giving praise to Blake and the frails start sweating

>>50252758
Now, if only their signature mechs didn't look so samey...

>>50249405
You seem to have mistaken Gundam for "good scifi"

>>50252638
Less than two dozen, certainly. Probably less than 20, and I'd think about equal numbers in the IS and periphery.

Rough distributional guess:

One or two on the FWL, the one we know about, and maybe a second, maybe in a unit near the periphery border.

Maybe one in the LC, but maybe none. If one did exist, it might actually be from one of the early lyran knockoff runs instead of a TH machine.

The capcon would have maybe one, perhaps in a warrior house, though it's equally possible that they lost all of theirs.

The FedSuns would probably have one or two, likely in the Outback region, maybe in a milita unit or training cadre.

The Dracs I think might well have the most in the inner sphere, two or three. They'd be the family mechs of some of the most stubborn and oldest samurai families, I'd think.

In the periphery I'd say the taurians would have the "most", maybe 3-4, with another two in the MoC, and one or two in the OA. Maybe another one could turn up in a minor state or independent world. Hell, maybe a bandit king stole one from a museum somewhere

I'd also think 2-4 in the hands of mercs, say one for Anon's Dudes, one with the Grave Walkers (if anyone would have one, it'd be them), call all it one in the Blue Star irregulars or maybe smithson's chinese bandits, and one with some minor unit

>>50253029
That's part of the appeal. Uniformity of design.

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Quick. What are some good mechs for a mercenary army? It only has three lances of mechs, with the rest of the small army being vehicles and infantry.

Also, it's a good rule of thumb that mercenaries have previous gen tech compared to the actual military? Like, they only start to incoporate clan tech during the Jihad era because by then clan tech and clan-influenced IS tech became more available by then?

>>50253658
>Quick. What are some good mechs for a mercenary army?
Hope you like Archers

>>50253658
Which era?
The Thunderbolt, Griffin, Awesome, Warhammer, Grasshopper and Archer are all extremely solid mercenary machines regardless of era, but in other eras there are also other good mech choices

>>50253100

You seem to mistaken your opinion for something that means anything.

>>50253795
I was thinking Late Succession Wars early Clan Invasion

>>50253658
Only mediums and lights, at best.

Merc companies with mechs stretch belief enough. Any heavies or assaults is crazy.

>>50253821
Yeah, so lots of what I listed. You *should* probably include a few locusts, stingers and wasps, though they really do suck in combat unfortunately.
Two other mechs that are going to be common are the Shadow Hawk and Phoenix Hawk. Both have some issues but are alright.
The Merlin is another merc mech which is good and solid, but more widespread than common. One would be fine, but two would be odd without some connection with the Outworlds Alliance.
Another common and fluffy machine thst has a few issues is the Rifleman. Including one would make sense for any unit that doesn't have some sort of AAA vehicles already
The most common overall Assault mech is going to be the Stalker, though having an Awesome or possibly a Battlemaster or maybe an Atlas wouldn't be unlikely (more than one assault mech in a company would pretty unusual unless that is their speciality, though)

>>50253796
>he keeps biting

the absolute madman

I agree that Gundam is shit, but you don't need to let yourself be trolled like this.

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>>50253658
>It only has three lances of mechs, with the rest of the small army being vehicles and infantry.

Rampages seem pretty good for herding cats, but as mercs you're probably going to use Chargers, Catapults and Shads. Any decently tough fast heavy should do the trick, anything that can survive keeping attention away from the more fragile and less maneuverable units until they can train their guns on your targets, really.

>>50253831
Jesus, I hoped you were dead.
Unfortunately I guess not

>>50254156
I know right? FASAnomics fucks up the setting enough so we might as well use them for fun for once and have our Mercs with big stompy mechs.

>>50254335
Who is FASA and why does he say merc cant have mechs ever?

Help me make a company of shitmechs.

For my recon company I'm thinking:
>Assassin - lance leader
>Stinger
>Wasp
>Locust

I'm already thinking of including a Charger, Quickdraw, Whitworth and Clint.

Era wise I want mechs that might be found in any of the main playable eras, but particularly 3025-3050.

>>50254520
*recon lance

>>50254369
0/10 apply yourself

>>50253658
Mercenaries tend towards older, heavier machines. Older because mercs often inherit their mechs from great great grandparents that used to be in a militia or pirates and heavier because you dont need to repair them as mech as lighter machines that can get completely wrecked over the course of a short skirmish

>>50251239
It's T-swift you uncultured swine.

>>50254369
FASA was the company that created battletech and it's setting. Their grasp of economics and the effects that various elements of the setting *should* have on each other was ....marginal, at best, especially when they made the mistake of giving hard numbers
Hence the term "FASAnomics" for moments where those contradictions hit
>>50254156
I guess he must have finished whatever bid he was inside on or got off probation or something

>>50254751

>T-swift
>Culture
>Same sentence

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>>50251239
Our Lady of the BattleMech, Taylor Swift

>>50254953
how'd she get associated with Battlemech? Did she mention it or something?

Or have the Queen Tay-Tay fags invaded /btg/?

>>50254995
>Or have the Queen Tay-Tay fags invaded /btg/?
It's that

>>50255069
Ah. Obviously. We wouldn't live in a world where someone so successful and hot as Taylor would be into Battletech

>>50254953
>>50254995
>>50255069
>>50255094
What 'mech would she pilot, lads?

>>50254852
Is there someplace I can look at that could explain the discrepancies of these FASAnomics? I'm curious.

>>50255151
An Urbie of course. Exactly where she belongs, in a trash can

>>50255151
I would guess a fast Davion medium, probably a Legionnaire

>>50255069
We have always been here

Kosh.jpeg

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>>50255305
Let me guess, you don't have any problems with anime posting but involving real women is too much for you

>>50255151
Grasshopper

Has anyone attempted a "MechWarrior 2.5 ed" or something similar? I really dislike CBT:RPG and AToW compared to 2nd Ed.

>>50255305
Kanye pls

>>50255355
I'd hit that ass like it was Turtle Bay.

Question: - In what I think is the 2nd Edition of Battletech, the little cardboard stand-in pieces for mechs had some pretty decent art. Anybody know the name of the artist for those pieces? I'd like to see more of that guy's work.

I want to make a Rasalhagian force, post Clan invasion. What kind of stuff would they have?

>>50255681
FRR or RD?

>>50255792
FRR, the real Rasalhague. Not Bear bitches.

>>50255681
MACHINEGUN KNEES, SON

>>50255835
Oh, in that case probably drunkards on skiis armed with broken bottles.

They kinda got knee-capped and don't exist as a real force before merging into the RD.

>>50255681
In general, they'd really be using a mix of drac stuff, lyran stuff and some star league gear from ComStar

Hey /btg/, stealth armor a waste of heat and weight, or should I go ahead with it? I'm trying to figure out if I should run that or Ferro on a 75-tonne.

>>50256035
Are you building a brawler or a sniper? Are you a gaussfag? If the answer to either of the latter two questions was yes, then it should go stealth

>>50256057
It's got two Snubnose PPCs and two Streak4/6 combos in its arms. Seems you'd advise against it, then?

>>50256082
Yes, probably. If you aren't already using endo, it's a better choice than ferro, generally

>>50256082
>two Streak4/6 combos

The fuck is wrong with you

>>50256140
I went for Ferro because I could get exactly my armor point value for 13 tonnes, instead of having to overspend armor and waste most of half a tonne on armor otherwise. I've still got to count out slots, but I've got a compact Gyro and a Light engine, with Endo and Ferro. Got plenty of heatsinks because Rating 300 can have twelve internal. Love those higher rating engines.

>>50256208
I really, really like streaks.

Like, a lot. Four STREAK6s was just too heavy though for all the heat they generated. I mean, I'm taking TSM because an alpha strike will set me at 10 heat level.

>>50256234
Just do streak 4s and feed all ammo from the same crits

>>50256329
That leaves me with an odd missile number after 6 salvo's. One tonne of ammo with mixed-sizes will give me five full-power attacks to unload all of it. Should I not be aiming to get my bins empty as quickly as possible?

>>50256212
Huh, fair enough.
You seem to be a bit short on long-range firepower, though. Maybe swap one of the snubs for an ERLL?
Also, I hope you're CASE-ing all dose streaks

>>50256212
>compact gyro
To what end?

>>50256568
Probably for accommodating both endo and ferro.

>>50254644

Headcanon is not always best canon. The SBs and novels say their distribution is usually the same or worse than House units because everyone draws from the same pool. Lights are supposed to be a shit ton more common IC than they are shown anywhere else too.

>>50255233

Some of it is memes, some of it is legit. Or at least is legit enough if you're buying into the ame BT wants to be.

One of the things people love to bring up is factories, but in BT production is explicitly bottlenecked by knowledge rather than just the available factories. Nobody knows how they work so they can't just build more. This changes eventually but then the start-up costs and infrastructure involved to build anything is extreme.

Or people who think 'Mech costs should be the arbiter of factional army sizes, because muh supply and demand and if the prices are really so low the Houses would just be buying the shit out of them. In reality there's a lot more involved in setting prices than just supply and demand, even if those two are easy to explain and give you a decent idea of the underpinnings of the system.

One area where I do believe the complaints are valid is with military budgets and the like, albeit not he way most people frame it. The Houses should really be swimming in cash given their resources and populations, but there's fluff about WarShips costing more than they can afford to spend. Stuff like that makes no sense at all.

>>50256568
So I can keep all my ammo in the CT

>>50256082

This sounds like it may be pushed into the realm of overheat BV reductions like the Vulpes. Slap Stealth Armour on and see if it drops your final BV.

If it does, use Stealth. You never actually have to switch it on if you don't want to.

>>50254644
In my experience, you tend toward a shit ton of lights and low end mediums because that's what you're facing and salvaging most of the time. They're also the things you can get parts for, which is a fucking massive thing for Mercs.

Like I can't tell you how long I've been dragging around half a Clint and half a Hermes I in my current campaign because parts availability is fuck all. Really need to sell those things when I finally get out of bumfuck and back near someplace with a hiring hall.

>>50256952
I think the best example of FASAnomics (which CGL has attempted to paper over, but it is kinda the Ur-example) was the way that simultaneously the canon facts of a total of 2000 interstellar spacecraft existing in the ENTIRE SETTING and worlds with a population of billions living entirely on imported food were 'true' at one point

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>>50256966

Where it can easily be taken out by a single through-armour crit and destroy your 'Mech with no chance to salvage anything from the wreck?

It sounds like you're trying to make something like this. Maybe 4/6 with a SFE, I dunno. But on a brawler design the 5/8 speed might prove more valuable than the SFE.

>>50257002
They went the wrong way though, bumping the spacecraft numbers instead of cutting off the populations at the knees.

Battletech makes much more sense when the major capital and industrial worlds are the only ones with 1 billion + people. The novels and settlement descriptors always make the podunk worlds look like they only have a couple major cities of a couple hundred thousand or so on one continent of a world anyway.

>>50256974

Also I just checked it when I was building the Blarg here >>50257026. The BV drops by 20 points or so because of the offensive BV reduction.

So it's cheaper and gives you another option if you want to use it.

>>50257002

That too, certainly.

>>50257059
Does the BV actually drop with stealth...?

>>50256234
Keeping your TSM running means you have to always connect. Streaks don't fire unless they lock, and don't generate heat if they don't. There's "Hit me on 19" living dangerously, and "I'll stay on 5" living. This is most certainly the latter.

>>50256952
>but then the start-up costs and infrastructure involved to build anything is extreme.
Explain Norse-storm or Kressely, then

>>50257080

Yes. try it yourself and see.

This one is 20 points cheaper because heat from Stealth armour reduces its Offensive BV even when it's not in use.

The Vulpes' cost drops over 100 points thanks to its BV, contrary to the bitching of people who insist it's paying for something it can never use.

I wish Xotl would issue an errata saying that Stealth Armour can never reduce a unit's BV below what it would be without Stealth Armour but that's a fanciful notion. It might become more important later on if they keep designing things that get a BV break from Stealth armour though.

>>50257046
They'd still have to raise the number of JumpShips significantly, even if they did that, though.
Low-pop, hi-ship would be much better IMO

>>50257167
I agree.

>>50257129

In the original fluff they were pretty small to start with and built up over time.

Now of course Norse-Storm spewed out whole regiments of assaults from the start because lol FedCom.

Kressly doesn't seem to have been that prolific until WoB took over Epsilon Eridani either.

Not saying new factories didn't happen, just that they didn't happen as often as people expected them to and their output was still significantly down from places like LAW, let alone Hesperus.

>>50257191
>Kressly doesn't seem to have been that prolific until WoB took over Epsilon Eridani either.
The Lineholder was canonically the best-selling 55 tonner on the market within a year of it's introduction, and within a few years was cranking out enough bandersnatches that they were causimg house liao problems.

>>50256952
>>50257129
>>50257191
>>50257272
production numbers are nonsense, and I honestly only hear people lowball them when them not being lowballed would allow nice things for a faction they dislike, end of story

>>50257272

Uh, got a cite for either of those?

Because I checked the Lineholder's entry in each of the TRs 3058 I have (normal, Revised, Upgrade) and it just says it can be found in a lot of factions, not that it was produced more heavily than every Griffin factory in the game combined.

Even the Bandersnatch text doesn't suggest massive numbers, the Cappies didn't border that many worlds and the March clearly wasn't spamming full Battalions to defend themselves. Otherwise there'd have been no work for small mercs and no AMC.

That read to me as being a matter of degree rather than absolutes, that it "complicated" (sic) their attempts to take over or run through gunboat diplomacy Chaos March worlds, not that they were suddenly unable to advance any further because Bandersnatches, Bandersnatches everywhere.

>>50257026
That was a troll post, why tf would I let an ammo det take out my engine? I've got my missiles case'd in my left leg.

As for low on long range, >>50256534
I was thinking of running it alongside a friend's warhammer. Said Warhammer is stupidly long range'd but has a deadzone of 3/4 hexes infront of it.

>>50256568
Save on slots and makes my Gyro waaaay less iof a target. Lets me pad put my middle a lot more with junk critical slots so I'm not gibbed with a few focused shots. Survivability honestly, I'm wanting this monster to keep people away from the rest of the lance, so the harder it is to kill, the better.

>>50257373
Not him but sometimes they just plain fuck up on production stuff and don't think it through, like 3039 saying there were more Highlanders than Catapults because they didn't do the math.

>>50257441

Also some people simply misinterpret what's written (being charitable) or in other cases insist that certain factories have to be producing a fuck ton of shit because it flatters their biases (less charitable reading, but extremely common when dealing with factionfags).

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>>50257272
>>50257305
Different anon here, but here's a photo of my copy of 3058, which I'm pretty sure is first printing. This may have been what the guy is referring to, the phrase being "and in less than a year has broken sales records for the 55 ton weight class"

>>50257405

>I've got my missiles case'd in my left leg.

This is almost as bad an idea as CT ammo.

Kicking is an objectively excellent form of physicals, and arguably the best way to go. If I know someone has explosive ammo in a leg, I'll get beside them and kick for that leg. Best-case scenario, the ammo takes the leg off. Worst-case scenario, I'm still gonna kick that leg off.

You're really better off with it in the arms or, failing that, side torsos. Especially since CASE won't even kick in until you get to the side torsos any way, and the torsos tend to be better armoured.

>>50257405
>I've got my missiles case'd in my left leg.
So you'll just lose a leg, rather than anything else. This is a bad thing. Assuming you have only one ton of ammo and CASE II, or else you put Clan CASE on the design somehow, anyway.

>I was thinking of running it alongside a friend's warhammer. Said Warhammer is stupidly long range'd but has a deadzone of 3/4 hexes infront of it.
Er, what? That's what all the Medium Lasers and SRMs are for, and with ER PPCs, there's no minimum range problem.

>Survivability honestly, I'm wanting this monster to keep people away from the rest of the lance, so the harder it is to kill, the better.
XLFE, and you're relying on sandblasting weapons and Snubbies. I mean, yeah the SNPPC hits hard at 9 hexes and closer, but outside of that you're not really threatening enough.

>>50257490
To be fair, a lot of the factories *do* have to produce a shit ton of a certain design for it to make sense that designs have the penetration they do. Factories are often loaded down with designs, yet never have huge production numbers.

>>50257504

... but the Griffin is produced at Hesperus, and that's the most prolific factory in the setting. I roll to disbelieve.

If it was breaking sales records for mercs or independant powers then sure, but total?

Mind you that book is riddled with other issues too. It certainly doesn't appear in other stuff.

>>50257552
>>50257574
I am glad to know you can aim kicks. Thanks folks!

>>50257574
The Warhammer in question has LRMs and Heavy PPCs. It got recovered from a chop-shop, same as my Marauder. I'm pretty sure the gm is hinting we have the wrong right arms on our mechs.

Aren't the STREAKs great at getting crits? Would I be better off replacing them with MMLs then, if it's so ineffective?

>>50257685

>I am glad to know you can aim kicks.

Well, you can't normally (maybe in the RPG or with special pilot abilities) but what you *can* do is stand on the right or left side of an enemy 'Mech and from there you can only hit the leg on that side.

>Aren't the STREAKs great at getting crits?

Confirmation bias mostly. People remember the times they sprayed an enemy 'Mech that was badly damaged with SRMs and generated a fuck ton of crits but statistically it's not worth worrying about.

In the long run you're better off with a lightshow suite of medium lasers since those 5-point hits will be more effective at getting a quick kill.

On the other hand, ML deathballs rapidly become as boring as bat shit so even just from that perspective I'd suggest the Streaks for variety.

>>50257685
>The Warhammer in question has LRMs and Heavy PPCs.
It's some sort of custom then, and probably has a fragile expensive engine.

>Aren't the STREAKs great at getting crits? Would I be better off replacing them with MMLs then, if it's so ineffective?
It's not that SSRMs don't work well at critical hits, it's that you have no consistent means of creating holes in armor to allow the SRMs to do the job. Outside of your lancemates pummeling them, anyway, and that's a recipe for disaster if they need to focus down something else. MMLs aren't really going to fix that.

>>50257606
>but the Griffin is produced at Hesperus, and that's the most prolific factory in the setting. I roll to disbelieve.
But what evidence do we have that the griffin is what they're producing prolificly? I don't recall any sourcebook specifically stating that hesperus produces many griffins

>>50257606
A lot of other FASA 3050s stuff had suggestions thst enormous numbers of mechs were being cranked out. Pre-unseen TRO:3050, TRO 3055 and 58, FM:FWL, FM:DC and even the solaris VII stuff are examples. Fanpro and CGL later went back on it, but FASA's general ideas in that area/era were pretty obvious

>>50257863

They produce *everything* there in large numbers. That's the value of Hesperus, it really churns things out.

I can't find the table of Lyran production in the .pdf of the old book but I remember the Griffin being made in numbers. Even a lesser FWL facility was making 23 a year during the Succession Wars, never mind its expanded production after Helm, which Defiance also benefitted from.

One can argue whether the old production numbers make sense but the clear intention of the fluff and numbers is to show that Defiance Hesperus *really* cranks things out at a frightening pace, and that's why everyone was fighting to claim it during the SW. It didn't lose its value after that either, it was still by far the most productive site the Lyrans had even after they diversified by putting in new lines at other places.

>>50257129
>the start-up costs and infrastructure involved to build anything is extreme
>Explain Norse-storm or Kressely,

Why do idiots keep thinking that a very high barrier to entry means that something is literally impossible? Just because a few factories were founded doesn't mean that they are something that anybody with a 5 C-bills, a screwdriver, and an EZBake Oven can pull off. The fact that only a very few factories were founded in an era where Houses are desperate for new large-scale Mech production PROVES that the start-up costs or infrastructure are the primary barrier to entry. If they weren't, there would be like twelve HUNDRED factories founded instead of about 12.

Learn about fucking nuance.

>>50258012

The stuff in '55 and '58 that really gets shat out in high numbers is basically the FedCom stuff. Other things aren't nearly so abundant.

FM: DC has the Dracs missing 16 regiments (and you can check with Xotl if you don't believe me) from their pre-Clan War listings that never fought and which just up and vanish. A lot of their units haven't rebuilt very well either, and the growth of the FWL in its FM was minimal.

The Solaris stuff is all limited-run niche designs that really only get used in the games.

CGL didn't go back on anything, all they really did was remove hard counts on things because the numbers never made sense when you looked at them. Instead things got produced at the speed of plot.

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How many smoke launching SRM-2's would a custom variant mech have to have to be munchie? I'm having trouble with clanners in my local meta being able to both out-gun and out-shoot my plucky spheroids at long range. Smoke is my preferred method of reducing the effectiveness of Clan Ace Gunnery but I need a force comp that isn't every-other-mech-is-a-Crud to have enough screening

>>50258131
>Learn about fucking nuance.

Fuck off with your headcannon. If it's not explicitly listed in the books it doesn't exist. Period.

The fact that factories were created means that there's no reason why more of them couldn't be. There's no excuse for more mech production besides authorial fiat, so stop being a shill and trying to defend the indefensible.

>>50258176
CB Spender pls go. Not sure why you're wasting time on Smoke SRMs when infernos do the job better. BURN EVERYTHING DOWN.

>>50258176

Well, you need like 17 to be able to completely wall yourself off in smoke.

I think you could get away with 3-6 if you were careful about your placement or grouped up.

Really though, going to smoke is kinda useless. Just field Gausswall forces and sit in woods, Clan shit deals with that poorly.

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R8 my Dark Age Cent refit

>>50258289
So uh, why are you using a standard AC/10? Planning on using alternate munitions or something?

>>50258289

>insufficient speed, armour, and firepower/10

>>50258104
Considering that the Griffin is the signature medium of the LCAF, I agree that they probably make a lot. However, I wouldn't say that being made at a super complex means big production numbers automatically. Using the Griffin as an example, remember LAW made the 1N until its destruction in 3069 but only a few by special order. Then again, that was a retconned line shoehorned into TRO:PP.

>>50258289
MML-3/LRM-10

>>50257753
>but what you *can* do is stand on the right or left side of an enemy 'Mech
... I would have never thought of that. That's clever.

>I'd suggest the STREAKs for variety
Kinda what I'm going for. I've got a thing for Ballistics over energy in most instances, but I know that the energy is better most of the time. I just think the mental image of the streaks is awesome.

The gm also throws missile buggies at us incessently. Seriously, he posted a scene he drew of that game. Some crazed idiots with rockets on their backs and missile heads on sticks going suicide-rush at Mechs is not fun...

>>50258309
Yeah, I like the utility of alt munitions.
>>50258314
Hardened armor tho
>>50258336
I like the versatility of the alternative munitions for the missiles as well, though I'm unsure if it outweighs the damage potential.

>>50258012
When you think about how the jihad reworking for MWDA took place quite close after the end of the stuff you listed, the way those gains never materialized for anyone but the capcon makes sense. Think about it. The WoB suddenly had to go from "giving the bears and a bit of everyone else trouble" into "bringing the entire fucking sphere to it's knees", and there was no way Fanpro/CGL were going to make that already Herculean cleanup effort worse by giving everyone more shit that they'd have to get rid of in the jihad/DA interm

>>50257758
The SNPPC's won't strip armor well enough?

>>50258289

ohshitniggawhatareyoudoing/10

If you're going to have Hardened armour, you need to mount at least enough of it to beat what you could have had normally, which isn't happening here. Going to Standard armour would let you carry the effective maximum armour for the same mass and get better production everywhere but the head.

The standard A/C is, I assume, there for specialty ammo but you kinda need a third ton to pull that on an A/C-10. An LB-X would probably be better.

Shield is interesting but you might look at having two Smalls like the Atlas III rather than the single Medium.

>>50258402
What's the optimum way to use hardened?
I used the shiro the other day and was like "holy shit this is amazing"
And there are two mediums?

>>50258367
>Yeah, I like the utility of alt munitions.
It's not that good, honestly. It's slow as fuck, and can do 21 points of damage if literally everything connects. Not a bad design, but its niche is hard to find. The Shield isn't a bad thing, but it's not really useful on this.

>>50258372
At 9 hexes and closer? Sure, you hit for just enough to create a PSR. Outside of that, you're doing 16 to 10 points of damage based on your range. Unless you're fighting something that's pretty thin skinned, that's just not enough damage. And even then, unless your armor is seriously heavy, you could see a lance focus you down just to prevent you from exploiting any holes in armor.

>>50258422
As >>50258402 said, you need enough Hardened armor to be better than the armor you could have without it. I prefer a battery of lighter, hard hitting weapons on my hardened armor mechs, and JJ are usually out of the question for mechs with it.

>>50258372

I find Snubs over-rated. People go on about the 9-hex short range but if you're fast you can leverage your speed better with other things, and if you're slow Pulse lasers are arguably better due to their to-hit bonus and consistent damage.

If you slap a Capacitor on them they do start looking better.

If your GM is hinting at wrong arms you might want to have a look at the Marauder-9M2 (IIRC that's the variant, any way) since it packs a pair of Heavy PPCs and a pair of Streak SRM-6s. It's not bad.

>>50258422
>What's the optimum way to use hardened?
Build a 3025 full-sinked max-armor laser zombie, then refit it with DHS, and use the many saved tons for hardened

>>50258446
We don't fight many big-boy Mechs, and those we do, our Commando handles, but that's good info to know. Should I go to a standard PPC and cri-smore over having a minimum range (which the SSRM would cover)? I think I could get my hands on a normal PPC or two.

>>50258463
Thanks, I'm trying to stop from going full-faggot over my love of pulse lasers and Streaks, but it seems that's gonna be damn hard.

>>50258446
>and JJ are usually out of the question for mechs with it.
Really? I like JJs on hardened armor assaults for the mobility boost.
Also IJJ/hardened 55 tonners are some of the most hilariously annoying harassment mechs to ever exist

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>>50258464
Like this?

>>50258523
>>50258464
What about a hardened Grasshopper?

>>50258215
Infernos would just be playing into the racist stereotype of "Snakes are war criminals" as I burn down Drac infrastructure.

>>50258261
Gausswall is boring and suitable only for dishonorabu fedcom piggu. More seriously, I agree the sweet spot is ~6-8 launchers per lance assuming they have the same speed profile.

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>>50258422

The Shiro's amazing because it combines light Clan LRMs with the Hardened armour, but it's not that great if you look at what it could have done, particularly with Clan energy weapons.

Hardened is in a kind of awkward place for the Dark Age now too. Time was it was the only game in town for tanking hilarious amounts of damage (IIRC the Great Turtle can survive a fall from orbit and small nukes) but the addition of Ferro-Lamellor and especially Ballistic-Reinforced armour has cut into that niche.

Basically I would say it's worth it if you're building a turret tech machine where the extra armour makes it even more of a pain in the ass to handle or if you can improve the maximum armour you would get by at least 20%.

Of course, an Awesome is fine too. Feel free to replace the PPCs with a Clan LPL and a Clan ER Medium if you want.

>>50258523
I mean, you can use them, but I like going full retard and maxing the armor out for hardened, which means tonnage is at a premium. I mean, I did make a Charger IIC with hardened and 8 IJJ.

>>50258582
The Stalker II seems to be in the sweet spot despite its lack of speed. That thing is HARD to put down.

>>50258600
Can I get that build pls?
It sounds glorious

>>50258534
Yeah, basically. I've actually got a hardened MAD-II almost identical to yours, funny enough that you chose it to use
>>50258542
Oooh, that could be nasty

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>>50258608
>The Stalker II seems to be in the sweet spot despite its lack of speed. That thing is HARD to put down.

Heh.

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>>50258617
There you go.

>>50258608
It's hard to get back on its feet, and easy as hell to knock over.

>>50258665
Huh, I thought the 8 IJJ one had hardened too. Dammit. Ah well.

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Haven't tested yet, but this is what I got for a hardened grasshopper

>>50258608

Kek.

Not sure if you know this and it's what the others have referred to, but because the designer didn't know the rules for what he was building he didn't realise that the armour and cockpit would inflict a cumulative +2 to piloting checks, which means the average pilot will fall over more often than not when hit with 20+ damage and then due to the no/minimal arms quirk it has will probably not be able to stand up again after that.

Ooops.

So it maybe hits you with two LRM-10s in the first few turns and then spends the rest of the game shouting HELP HELP I'VE FALLEN AND CAN'T GET UP.

>>50258734
Then don't field an average pilot?
I ran it the other day and it took my opponent about 7 turns to kill it while focusing it with three clan heavies.

>>50233733
I'm trying to show a friend some of the iconic mechs of this setting. What would you guys call the most iconic and well-known mechs of the setting?

>>50258778
the setting of Battletech in general or did you have an era in mind?
Generally the Atlas and the Mad Cat are the two biggest I'd say, with the Warhammer being up there as well.

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>>50258709

>>50258798
Battletech in general. These are what I have so far (an awful lot of Inner Sphere, but those just seem more iconic to me), anyone please fill in shit that I've missed:

Lights
>Locust
>Wasp
>Stinger
>Raven
>Commando

Mediums
>Hunchback
>Crab
>Shadow Hawk
>Phoenix Hawk
>Griffin
>Wolverine
>Cicada
>Centurion
>Blackjack

Heavies
> Warhammer
>Archer
>Marauder
>Catapult
>Awesome
>Dragon
>Timber Wolf/Mad Cat

Assaults
>Highlander
>King Crab
>Atlas
>Dire Wolf/Daishi

>>50258798
Aren't the Marauder and King Crab in that area as well?