Horus Heresy General /hhg/

First for Fists

First for how should I outfit my lightning?

4 kraken, battle servitor, ground tracking augries?

>>50232788
>>50232802
Damn, beat me to it

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>Won't post my list because i've posted it in the last 2 threads and i can accept that this is annoying people
Thanks for all the help though anons - Let's hope more HH becomes plastic because Resin sucks

>>50225492
SoH Dreadclaws coome without Inertial Guidance System.

>>50232802
For anti-tank.

Phosphex for "I know I'm gonna get shot down, but at least I can do something before I go." since you drop them in the Movement phase and Interceptor fires at the end of your Movement phase.

>>50232802
Yes, be sure to arrive outside of interceptor Dreads LoS. Use every inch(bowchiawowow) of it's range.

Phosphex bombs aren't bad, especially against aggressive enemies. But phosphex rapiers exist.

The thing with the lightning is that it has a lot of good configurations, some have better alternatives, and the Turbo Kraken build is just that good. 4 S8 AP1 armourbane shots with strafing run and tank hunters? Good night.

Children of Sicarius link yet?

>>50232966
Plenty of targets in your own deployment zone, I see. And no, you cannot drop bombs or shoot if you deepstrike a zooming flyer in 30k.

>>50233125
>playing with 36" deployment zones

Nth for lorgar did nothing wrong

>>50233163
I thought zooming flyers came from the edge of your side of the table and moved up to 18"? But it turns out they move up to 24". Also, supersonic makes no difference in the movement phase, only allows the flyer to flat out more, or whatever the flyers' flat out move is called.

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>>50233197
fuck off

WTB Halp for Ultrasmurfs.

Seems nobody wants to horus heresy them due to mary sue 40k.

People are so conflicted when it comes what to do and been years since I played so not too sure what actually works anymore.

Msu, blobs, types of vehicles, transports, army composition? I have no idea on any of these things..

>>50233235
Shut the fuck up, stop trying to understand the shorthand, download the books, and start reading.
Learn to crawl before you walk. If you haven't read the books, you shouldn't even be posting in this thread.

>>50233235
https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000/Tactics/Space_Marine_Legion_List_(30k)#XIII_Legion:_Ultramarines
>Get a list
>post it here
>???

>>50233235
So you have mediocre characters barring Bobby G himself, the flat best legion unique units, possiby tied with Sallies and the Gal Vorbak why are ashen circle so shit. However, your Rites are fucking pathetic. So it depends on how you want to run your army-mechanised, footslogging, terminators everywhere, primarch deathstar, etc. Read the tactica linked by the other guy, read the legion army list, see what you can think of. Watch batreps on youtube or go in to your local gamestore to figure out how much the game has changed recently

>>50233235
They do MSU best, but that's expensive in 30k. Their army is infantry based, but vehicles can designate targets for the infantry to use their LA rule and reroll, so squads in rhinos are better than the other legions' equivalents. And you can reach already engaged squads easier.
Suzerains are OP, Fulmentarii are what you pay for, which is a lot, and I don't know shit about Locutarii. I'm phoneposting

>>50233255
I have, it's just the interpretation of the force compo for the UM are quite open hence the variety of lists made for them.

You toxic little cunt.

>>50233205
Zooming flyers must move a minimum of 18" and a have a maximum move of 36". I can't find anything that says you can't come out at Cruising Speed out of reserves or that this affects dropping of bombs. On a regular 6x4 table, the flyer, if moving in a straight line, can move from the table edge up to the edge of the edge of the enemy's deployment zone.

>>50233292
Whoops you're right. Srry, I hope breakfast helps me wake up. Interesting tactic, would melt steel beams with.

>>50233350
I've seen some people advocating for it. Probably depends on the meta. If there's bound to be AA and you really want to bring that flyer, at least you'll get a chance to drop a deuce on the enemy before getting Intercepted from the skies. It is a pair of S5 AP2 Blasts with all the Phosphex goodies attached, after all.

>>50233403
How many bombs can you drop in a single run, 4?

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>running gal vorbak with counter attack and preferred enemy (everything)
>dark martyr even has a power dagger

I can just imagine 10 serrated suns leaping up during a prayer circle and yelling "it was a trick!" before jumping out a window while Argel Tal just stares in disbelief

>>50233457
>I'm not aware Gal Vorbak don't have LA rules, so they lack Mutable Tactics.

>Brother, is that some sort of power athame you're wielding?
>Wha- ooh right. Sure, that's what it is.
>Can I see it?
>No :^)
>:C

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>>50233477

Rewards of Treason doesn't say "replace Legion Astartes", it just flat out gives it to them.

>>50233457
Legion Specific Unit iirc

>>50233504
>Where this is revelant
I thought this mean LA(Salamanders) became LA(AL), not that Daemons were gifted the LA rule.

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>>50233512

It is listed as a legion specific unit for word bearers

>>50233534

I absolutely agree that is probably the RAI but not necessarily the RAW. If an opponent didn't find it reasonable I would not force the issue and would concede the ruling.

>>50233504
Shieeeet.

>>50233548
>not necessarily the RAW
Kind of looks like forcing the RAW too.

>>50233413
One. Though do note that a bomb cluster or a pylon still counts as a single bomb in terms of rules, even if it drops several blasts. Also, as far as I can read, the target doesn't have to be an enemy model. It just says "nominate one model that it passed over" which sounds like you can target your own models as well for, say, a Danger Close situation. Like if there's some model with a rule that makes you unable to target them, but you have a friendly model right next to them, you can target that friendly model and catch the enemy with the blast regardless.

>>50233579

Where relevant is an awful term born from vague insurance documentation. If it had say "instead" it would be crystal clear

>>50233630
Agreed. Heh, you made me think of Infiltrating the Iron Circle. Can you imagine?

>>50233504

I disagree, where relevant implies that the rule needs to be present to be changed. If Gal Vorbak lack LA in the first place, the rule is not relevant to their unit entry, and will not be given to them.

>>50233504
"This unit has the equipment and special rules that they would normally, howerever they have the Legiones Astartes (Alpha Legion) special rule where this is relevant, no the Legiones Astartes special rule of their parent Legion."

It doesn't give anything, they keep what they have and swap LA.

>>50233689
The key is 'where this is relevant'-so wherever the unique unit stolen has Legion Astartes, it instead gains LA:alpha legion. So you can take those Gal Vorbak, or even a Mhara Ghal, they just don't get mutable tactics or power daggers

>>50233748

Somewhat disappointing although it's not like gal vorbak need any help being effective

>>50233787
True, although the idea of random Gal Vorbak prancing around going 'trollololollolol we trol u' to lorgar/argel tal like some 2009 /b/ goer makes me giggle

Terminator armor now allows its wearer to reroll failed saves. All terminator units are recosted appropriately

Y/n

20 man Marauder Blobs
10 Shotguns, 10 Pistol/CCW, Pariah Armour.

Fluffy for my particular Blackshields, but a terrible tabletop idea?

Artificer armor is now a 3+ save that rerolls save rolls of 1 and is immune to AP3

Y/n

>>50233877
Why

>>50233868
Is the lack of shotguns to save points? They already have a bolter, bolt pistol, and chain axe.

Fill 'em with shotties.

>>50233877
I'm not sure if you understand probability but for all that effort it just makes it equivalent to a 2+ save. Literally the same probability.

>>50233885

Flavor

>>50233915

I wanted there to be a mechanical difference between terminator armor and artificer

It gives it that feeling of improved power armor

>>50233938
There already are differences. Terminator armour gives you an invuln along Relentless on top of the artificer's 2+ save.

>>50233938
>It gives it that feeling of improved power armor
>2+>3+

Over complicating a single-d6 system adds bloat to the game.

>>50233945

Relentless on characters doesn't do very much, currently there's not that big of a difference between a praetor with Aaa and iron halo and one in Cataphractii

>>50233950

Rerolling 1's is over complicated?

>>50233877
>3+
>immune to ap3
Yeah nah you're an idiot trying to fix what isnt broken. Does there need to be a difference between how Carapace plate and the various other 4+ armours work as well?

>>50233968
>Rerolling 1's is over complicated?

It is when it could just as easily be a 2+. It's called streamlining. A 3+, immune to AP3, that rerolls one is anooying. Just be a 2+.

>>50233999

Mastercrafted carapace :^)

>>50233968
Rerolls just add time and are not necessary

What would be a competitive 1k pt Luna Wolves list? I'm thinking of getting BoP and making a pre-heresy list out of it.

>>50234004
Not that anon, but I don't quite agree with power swords ignoring power armour but being utterly useless against artificer. I mean invulnerable saves used to be armour saves that could never become less than a set number, back when power weapon was a rule and ignored every kind of save. Idk, like a homebrew system I once read that took armour, cover and AP into account, meaning a refractor field in the open was weaker than a terminator in cover. But well, for that to happen 40k would need to move beyond a D6 system. Not gonna happen.

>>50234027
It would be a start. Have you read the Zones Mortalis rules already?

>>50234066
I have the istvaan trilogy and it skims around it. Why?

>>50234027
I also agree, but the problem is the 1d6 system. It's difficult to have large amounts of variety in it.

In infinity, which uses 1d20, you REALLY feel the difference between an elite in power armor vs a grunt.

40k could bump up to 1d10 or 12 so marines could feel a bit better than humans+.

I also think invul saves should be ward saves. Taken in addition to armor saves. I mean the field doesn't just say "Oh, it just AP5, I'll let the armor take it." but hey, what can ya do.

>>50233853
Would be far more relevant in 40k than 30k, and still wouldn't settle the problem of AP2.
Give terminators a 1+ save

>>50234094
whoops wrong reply, meant to reply to >>50234056

>>50234102

>terminators without chain fists just rock em sockem robots each other for eternity

>>50234085
I think I'm not getting what you're trying to tell me. There are rules for it in HH1 and HH3. It's like a minigame, with stratagems, alternate FOCs, Warlord Traits and such, but most of that can be ignored and the game played as 30k in a maze, with some terrain limitations.
I mean, SoH BS5 Plasma squads rapid firing without the risk of a Medusa placing a pieplate on them? With teleportation, or maybe Vet troops along with some Fearless bubbles? Don't sound too bad to me.
>>50234094
Agreed

>>50233896
It's about what bitz I get from the space marine scout box. I'm using the fatigue-clad scout arms on power armoured marines to represent stripped down Pariah Armour (the proportions are fine, I've checked). 5 shotguns and 5 pistol/ccw sets to a box.

>>50233896
Also, Marauders pay for their bolter, basic wargear is Pistol/CCW or ChainAxe.

I don't want to kick the hive but I'm considering doing (loyalist) World Eaters as part of a Shattered Legion of Isstvan III survivors once my Imperial Fists are done. Did we reach consensus on if they receive free chainaxes or not? Does it change if they're in a Shattered Legion?

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>>50234479
Depends if you modeled them.

All I ever wanted was the truth

>>50234479
They cost two points on your tacticals, unless you swap your bolters out for them. Just like chainswords. Doesn't change for Shattered Legion, I think.

>>50234260
Oh, you want your anti-teq to be simple and ubiquitous?

>>50233877
So your artificer armor cancels armor penetration. Then a superweapon will come out that cancels artificer armor canceling armor penetration. Then a character will come out with super-artificer armor that cancels superweapons canceling artificer armor canceling armor penetration. And it will never end.

>>50234501
Shitty image. No "( book/audiobook title) link?"
Also no phoenix spear and chainaxe meme with Mickey and Goofy.
BTW.
Children of Sicarius anyone?

>>50234479
No we did not reach consensus. Many (most?) of us think they are free, with a more-specific-than-usual requirement that they be modeled. Some of us think you still have to buy the chainsword first. Shattered legions doesn't affect it.

>>50234670

All it takes is AP2

>>50234927
just like a 2+ :^)

How durable do Thallax stats make them? Obviously I need two units for Ordo Reductor and I get two in the Legio Cybernetica bundle, but are they much more durable than termies and such?
3 wounds, yes, but only a 4+ makes them not much tougher than a 10-man infantry squad.

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>>50234927
>tfw you Venerate the Wrath and all your melta guns are master-crafted
>>50235057
I think they withstand plasma better and regular guns just the sae, let me find the math.

>>50235057
Don't forget T5 FnP5+, iirc.

>>50235078
FnP6, it's Ursarax the ones who get fnp5.

>>50234479
Honestly I wouldn't care if your tacticals get free chainaxes or not. It's not like WE have a whole lot going for them and it's still only a melee upgrade, which means it doesn't do anything because you're never reaching my gunline anyway. Or maybe 2 or 3 marines if you're lucky

>>50235089
>you'll never reach my gunline
What makes you so sure about that? Are you a Tau or something, huh?

>>50234102
No fuck off.

>>50235105
The answer, as with everything else, is quad mortars :^)

Terminators lose their invulernable saves in exchange for a save of 3+ on 2d6.

AP2 subtracts 2 from the roll, AP1 subtracts 4 and STR D subtracts 6. (Essentially requiring a natural roll of 5, 7 and 9 to pass, respectively)

Cataphractii and characters with invulnerable saves reduce the AP penalty by X amount

>>50235249
Mmmm Thudd

>>50235265
>Rules Bloat: The Post

>>50235300

>I'm too young to have played 2nd ed

>>50235309
There's a reason we don't play 2e anymore.

>>50235265
>people still refusing to accept the fact that even in real life a shot either penetrates armour or it does not.

>>50235249
How many of them, anon? Phos + Krak?

I'd actually like to roll saves on a D10, with higher AP being better to a maximum of 6 for D strength.

SO rather than arbitrary numbers subtracted for low ap, A melta becomes AP5 and subtracts 5 from the roll or counts armour as being 5 points weaker when rolling to penetrate.

>>50235324

Mostly CC rules and fucking Eldar t b h

>>50234323
Ah ok. It's not bad. Not shotgun for days good, but not bad. Anvil industries make a lot of good shotguns.

>>50235265
To be honest, I miss the Warhammer Fantasy system of a weapon's strength giving a flat modifier to armour save. Also cover inflicting a negative modifier to hit.

Those were better days.

>>50235593
>>50235453
>>50235300


Or hear me out... take this game mechanics stuff to the 40k General and not the thread about an expansion.

I would like to put up a petition to remove the Preferred Enemy and Hatred rules from the game as rerolls are inherently bloat and bad for any system

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>>50235604

It's time for you to leave, new friend.

>>50235453
>implying GW will ever make the hobby more complicated to get into

Using a D10 for certain rolls would only make it harder for newbies to get a grip around the rules

and why you tripfagging son

>>50235611
I would like to put up a petition to remove rolling from the game as rolls are inherently bloat and bad for any system

>>50235604
I think FW should stop following the 40k rules as they change from edition to edition. Stick with 7th once 40k goes to 8th, and then FW can tweak 7th in any way it wants afterward.

>>50235640

The core mechanics for 40k aren't that bad, it's the thousand peripheral rules that clog up the whole system. Changing armor saves isn't the same as how fucking awful grenades work.

>>50235632
Wouldn't non native(non 30k) posts be the one that need to go back?

>>50235441
Honestly quad morters are just ridiculeous. Two full units with shatter, one also phospex are just 580 points, deal with just about everything and are hard to shift with shooting.

Mass vehicles ? How about 24 shots with str 8 and reroll penetration ?
Mass infantery ? The standard ammo already does a fuckton of wounds, the phospex is just overkill in almost any scenario.
The only things mortars don't handle well is AV 14 and terminators, but there's always plenty of points left for units that can deal with that and also bubblewrap the mortars.

>>50235716

And you can take your plastic army with you

>>50235656
>Not wanting to play Warhammer 30k: Age of Horus.
>Not enjoying playing without points, dice rolls and using any model from every army yes, even 40k units!

What a fucking pleb.

>>50235725
Quad mortars cant deal with air units

as with most things in this game, they can be solved with liberal applications or lightning fighters

>>50235654
Even better, let's put up a petition to remove all rules from the game, so that we can just mash together or little toy soldiers whilst shouting "KAPOW" and "NOW KISS"

It seemed to work for AoS

>>50235816
AoS is fun, IDGAF

sigmarines are dumb though

>>50234696
Nice try, most people do not believe they are free.

>>50235816
Fuck it, lets remove models and painting from the hobby as well

>we freeform RPG now

>>50235781
Again, the mortars are so few points that it is very easy to also fit some AA in the list.

Personally I think Mortars should only be able to have a single ammo type, it is just way too easy to make them a swiss army knife unit, enabling the rest of your army to specialize against the few things the mortars can't handle.

>>50235781
So what you're saying is, quad mortars are going to get flakk shells (S8 AP4 blast, blast hits air units, blast persists for rest of game and is dangerous terrain to air units to represent the flakk cloud left behind, heavy 4) in the next update?

>>50235861
>no models
>no painting
>no games
So, the entire hobby is reading black library books? How horrifying.

>>50235760
wont it be great!!!!!

I cant wait to see little billys unpainted OC legion

>>50235880
No books. Books are bloat. Have you seen how many pages those things have?

>>50235867
That's not hiw flakk works though.

>>50235957
That leaves just having arguments about which legion/primarch is best and what things should look like.

>>50235057
I run 3 units of 6 as my base troops in my Reductor list. I find them far more durable than most other troop choices. There's seldom any instant death shooting thanks to t5 so your opponent is working through 18 wounds to kill off the unit, most of the time that takes concentrated firepower. In combat they also have a habit of sticking around, not winning necessarily but tarpitting elite units. I've had them hold a unit of dark furies for several turns where most other troops would fold to them. Their main weakness imo is that ld8, they break far too often and the 3d6 fall back is a bitch.

>>50235640
So I can see replies to my comments with CRTL+F when I ask stupid questions about things that are stupid.

>>50236006
Arguments create text. Arguments are bloat. Sit in corner. Stare at wall. This is optimal.

>>50236006
Ah yes, we've finally ascended to our final form

derailed bread is derailed.

>>50235880
So, pretty much 90% of /hhg/?

Truly, this is the future of the hobby.

My primarch is objectively better than yours, and any contrary argument is faggotry.

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>>50236099
I want off mr bones' ride

>>50236147
But my primarch IS your primarch

>>50236147
>implying

Your primarch is terrible, MY primarch is 78% less autistic than yours

>>50236147

Hey now at least neither of us play with primarchs C


Also reminder that Primarch D did nothing wrong

Why is it that with every plastic release this thread becomes more like the 40k general?

It can't just be a coincidence.

>>50236013
Nice. Could I get away with running 2 3-man units with either multi-meltas or Photon Thrusters (will convert some cool-looking guns as the Cohort Cybernetica bundle has no special weapons IIRC) and using them as objective-grabbers and to hunt light/medium armour?
Planning on running 1-2 20 man Thrall units depending on point limit as well.

>>50236161
Our Primarch is both his greatest enemy and most powerful ally. So... Alpharius?

>>50236191
>waaaaah /hhg/ sucks now

We've always been terrible, join us and become one with the shitposting

When will Emperor Titan "miniature" be released?

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>>50236099
>>50236158

>>50236223
Alongside the Emperor.

>>50236209
>but muh plastic strawmen

>>50235454
So nothing's changed?

>>50236223
It'll be a costume FW sells and you just get on the table and start stomping around

On a serious note, I seem to remember hearing that FW said they weren't going any bigger after the warlord, so I guess we'll have to wait for epic for them sexy imperators

>>50236191
Because the arguement PLASTC IS PLASTIC becomes more justified, anyone got that cartoon showing how core players are alienated

>>50236241
>muh ancestors

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>>50236209
>>50236236
And those attitudes aren't helping. It always gets like this during the waiting period for the next book, and it will not be pleasant during the Inferno release either.

>>50236051
Why not just CTRL+F (You)

>>50236297
On the bright side, at least Inferno will asnwer our questions about the Prospero incident. Not make me give a fuck about it, but the pictures are nice. Only 4 months
>>50236311
So (You) can Ctrl+F him too ;^) ;^) ;^)

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>>50236191
Because the lack of time and effort.

>>50236147
Fuck you anon, your Primarch has x personality disorder, whereas mine is clearly designed to be retarded in the way the emperor wanted/needed.

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>>50236272
I doubt it's just plastics and 30k becoming easily more accessible. It's probably 50% bored Anons too.
>>50236344
I feel as if that one Anon may be right. The Blighnade will trigger a vast majority of us. Maybe the long wait is just a test to see if we are deserving of Inferno? The worse these threads become, the longer the Blighnade will hold Inferno from us.

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>>50236147
>mfw my primarch is corvus corax

Has anyone had any /hhd/reams recently?

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>>50236436
Nope. No /hhg/ dreams for me in a while, Anon. Not even Dorn appears in my dreams anymore. I'm almost missing him poof in my dreams, so confused why he's there, and instant transmission style teleport away a second later.

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>>50236388
>tfw I'm both of those anons
Only 5 more months

>>50236436
I bet Scoria entropic slayed me so bad I can't dream of HH anymore.

>>50236488
Five? It's only till February or so. We need to offer the Blighnade an offering.

>>50236520
Says it's an offering or it'll be 6 months and -1T to all of us.

>>50236578
But what can the lowly anon do for bligh?
Hack into his computer and run a spellcheck on Folder How_to_take_all_the_nerds_money_part_VII ?

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>>50236578
I can only think of one offering. Enough money to start off a 7000 point army for three legions, three Warhounds, two Reaver, and half of a Warlord.

>>50236635
Which three?
And why half a warlord?
Might as well add a Blood Partridge allusion in a pear tree there too.

>>50236635
Wow. I was thinking more memes and such, but that could act as an offering alright.
Srsrly, 5 fucking Titans?
...Titanon?

>>50236673
5½. titans.

>>50236663
>Which three?
White Scars because jetbikes are expensive for one. I guess the other two can be your choice.
>why half a Warlord
We don't want to get the Blighnade's heart ready to explode.
>>50236673
>Srsrly, 5 fucking Titans?
...Titanon?
We want to show Blighnade that we mean business and the three legions worth of money just to earn his attention.

>>50236767
>I guess the other two can be your choice.
Does anyone have that price:points chart for all the units?

>>50236200
It would work, I've used similar in the past. Photon thrusters are pretty good for them, nice and versatile. People I play against are often surprised at how manoeuvrable they can be with jetpack, definitely use that to keep them out of harm's way after you shoot.
It pays to make your thralls fearless, if you can spare the points then either fnp or carapace helps against bolters. I use mine as a retinue for my archmagos/magos ordinator combo, ablative wounds and such.

>>50236191
Say what you want about this thread, but since the plastic kits came out I've seen less and less mkVII dudes being used in HH games. And that's always a good thing.

>>50236791
But since the Khan doesn't have a model you will have to get a lot of Jetbiks for the WS army, and still need to get the Primarchs of the other two legions you get.
>chart
What chart?

>>50236767
That's not an offering. Eh, I guess it's eat your greens and don't order chinaman this week.

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>>50236147
$350 fine erry day.

>>50236840
TAKE THE KNOT

>>50236805
Good. Player at the local GW likes his IH Vindicators too much, was planning to introduce them to an Ordinator artillery strike, a Thanatar and then clean up with the Thallax.

Thralls were going to be 20 with Carapace and Fearless for 100pts a unit, and used as objective holders and to bubblewrap my shooty robots or artillery tanks.

>>50236837
>not an offering
How is enough money for 21,000 points of marines to start three legions and 5½. titans not an offering?

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>>50236840
Take the Knot!

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>>50236840
THUNDER!
THUNDER!
THUNDERWOLVES!

AWOOOOOOOOOOO!

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>can legally run a loyalist AL detachment with loyalist gal vorbak alongside Garro

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>>50236870
Moneyz aren't an offering made with love, anon. Give something lovingly made. Or at least post more images.

>>50236884
I'm doing loyalist AL with Garro, + Sisters whenever they get the 30k rules.

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>>50236936
>Money isn't an offering
It would make FW happy.
>with love
What if you earned that money by doing something you love? Pic related because you know Vulkan and that affair about being immortal.
>post more images
I guess I could do that.

>>50236259
They did say they might do a Nemesis and Nightgaunt - basically variants of the Warlord with more and fewer weapons than the regular Warlord, respectively. The Nemesis wouldn't be bigger, but it would be crazier!

>>50237017
As in it feels too easy. But I guess it's valid? It's better than a knot, that's for sure :^)

What's the dude/terminator/tank ratio you would recommend at 2000 points?

How common is the presence of artillery on the tabletop? I mean an apothecary won't be of any help against S9 pie plates.

>>50236351
IS that ravenguard heavy bolter from the sternguard set because I've never seen that type before>>50237360
Depends on who you're facing and what legions people like, if IW then prepare for trouble, if mechanicum make it double

>>50237276
too general of a question that has too many variables

>>50237474
>that ravenguard
Thats Iron Hands and yes

>>50237276
My World Eater Berserker Assault list generally has about 30 dudes on foot, and maybe 2 or 3 tanks at that points limit. But as >>50237482 said, it's kind of a vague question.

>>50237482
>>50237758
Good point, but let's just assume the most vanilla option available, what do you expect (in general) to encounter in a vacuum?

>>50237788
Still way too generic. Need legion, mission type, and RoW minimum.

>>50237788
what points limit, are we allowing anomalous tha/tg/uys

>>50237788
1-2 Medusas and 1-2 rapier batteries seems like a good idea for a generic list as that gives you a good ammount of fire support without running out of slots for other things like Veterans or Vindicators.

Thats the most generic answer I can give you to your most generic question.

>>50237276
1:0.66:0.0.34

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>>50238015

>have 4000 points of 30k
>don't even own a single rapier or medusa

>>50238015
>recommending 2 medusas and 2 rapiers to new players
This kills the 30k.

>>50238171
>Doesn't even run an ordinatus to his 3000 point games

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>>50238214
Show us where the basilisk touched you weakling!.

>>50238214
>have 2 medusas, 1 quad mortar battery and 1 laser destroyer battery in my DG

I... I'm sorry, anon.

>>50238273

Fellblade

Are Atomantic Pavaises ever worth the points? How do people model them?

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>>50232765

When the hell are Forge World making HH models with Chaos stars and mutations plastered all over them? I want Justaerin Terminators for my Black Legion.

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>>50238431
>the Justaerin at some point switched from cataphractii to indomitus because it would later look better with tusks
Impressive foresight.

>>50238431
When we get to Terra and Nuceria, anyway HH is the modellers game so why can't you just buy the standard ones and model on warp flesh

>>50238431
Hopefully never, that aesthetic should be reserved for possessed or 40k CSM, nothing's stopping you from adding chaos bits in your 30k stuff.

>>50238431
Could be a while. Consider that the upcoming book, Inferno, takes place before the Heresy. There are three legions that haven't been fully introduced yet, and only two of them are rumored to be in book 8 (BA/DA). That book will probably cover the early Heresy for the two legions.

Hopefully the White Scars are in book 9, which... well, we don't know what it will cover but it could be their odyssey from Chondax to Terra. They get back to Terra before the Death Guard go all Nurgley, and I don't think the Sons of Horus are very daemonic yet either. Then I'd expect a book for the Martian Civil War (Mechanicus galore) and a book for Tallarn (Imperial Army and Iron Warriors).

After that, it will be 2019 and we'll finally be ready to see the traitor legions approach Terra. By then they should be more daemonic.

>>50238398
>Cataphractii with a 3++ from shooting and deredeo backup
Helllooooo tyrants

>>50238557
Do we know what Cataphractii would look like with tusks?

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>>50238431
i like HH for letting me play chaos without the unusual aesthetic everywhere

>>50238431
The Justaerins aren't a BL thing. Abby renamed them as the "Bringers of Despair" if I'm not mistaken.

>>50238842

I just want the models. I don't care if they survived as an organization to present 40k

>>50238894
Anon, I hate to be a bearer of bad news(thankfully I'm not a WORD Bearer), but in all honesty I think FW would just make upgrade kits for those who want their Traitor Marines to look closer to their 40k counterparts.

>>50238653
I wonder whether a Dorito with just the Autocannons is worth it though? Though I'm thinking it'd be pretty nice ibacking up a squad of Lerneans. Shame dreadnoughts don't get Mutable tactics.

>>50239369
Wait until FW brings out the lascannons for it, I think they're not too shabby

>>50239369
Use the AAC for generic AT and AA, Hellfire for ZM, and Las for heavy AT.

For the sicaran venator, it says ordnance 2, but does not mention a blast marker, ks this just a two shot weapon with no blast, and 2 d6 for armour pen. if so is it any good? 2 strength 10 single shots seems kind if pointless to me.

There is hype in my bones boys. My glorious venators and pain train arrived today! May ruin be brought to the enemies of the mechanicum.

>>50239967
It's good for fucking with heavy vehicles, not much else really

>>50239967

It has a good chance of penning anything without void shields and if it does, the targe E shooting is Fucked with a capital F for the next round even if it is a super heavy

It is not for blob killing

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At what point between 30k and 40k do marines stop speaking in contractions

>>50239385
>>50239416
when are lascannons coming? and is it going to be 2 twin linked las? that could be pretty effective

>>50240130
Whenever Low Gothic and High Gothic's distinction became both prevalent and distinct. The Legions might have spoken whatever language they knew before joining the Legion, though Space Marines now are thoroughly indoctrinated. I'm guessing this came about with Gulliman's reforms.

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What do I improve/change on this Veteran Fist, /hhg/?

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>>50240300
make him an ultramarine

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Enjoy your legion of bookkeepers and landlords, lad.

>>50240400
>legion does only one notable thing the entire heresy
>still have to get bailed out by the blood angels and white scars

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>The greater daemon who accompanied Argel Tal into the eye of terror showed him the landing of each pod that held the juvenile primarchs who would turn to chaos

>except Alpharius

Could this be any more obvious now

>>50240300
The chest especially seems kinda grainy, is it your primer or something in the paint?

>>50240472
>Only Loyalist Primarch to have confirmed Primarch kill
>Won Siege of Terra, despite being 9-3 down in legions and 4-0 down in deities
>Managed to totally screw over perty by accident with only a third of his legion
>Carried out the Emperor's dying wishes, thus saving the entirety of humanity for ten-thousand years encounting
>Only Primarch to make himself useful post-heresy, seeing off an entire black crusade with one ship, a small stick, a sponge, three marines and a wire-haired terrier.
>Only Primarch to have a badass post-heresy death
I'm sorry anon, what did YOUR Primarch do today?

>>50240262
The dorito lascannon is Str 10 AP2 heavy 2. And on a 4+ each succesfull penetration procs another succesfull penetration.

Not sure if worth the 50 point upgrade, Venator seems better for less points.

>really like the idea of an autocannon dorito but the model is just ugly as sin.

Is there any way to use Vorax Automata in 40k games? I just love them so much.

>>50240667
>>Only Loyalist Primarch to have confirmed Primarch kill
beat up a manlet in BL's best fanfic
>Won Siege of Terra, despite being 9-3 down in legions and 4-0 down in deities
stopped the trickled remains of the traitors with help from from 2 other legions plus countless imperial army soldiers
>Managed to totally screw over perty by accident with only a third of his legion
>IW
>Carried out the Emperor's dying wishes, thus saving the entirety of humanity for ten-thousand years encounting
pretty sure Khan was there too all dorn did was help slap him on the throne which is all thanks to malcador the hero
>Only Primarch to make himself useful post-heresy
robot gorilla man would say otherwise
>Only Primarch to have a badass post-heresy death
only loyalist priamrch to have a post heresy death

>I'm sorry anon, what did YOUR Primarch do today?
not sit on his ass the whole heresy

>>50240838
Khan didn't have to carry the Emperor and Sanguinius off the most possessed bit of the galaxy simultaneously while it was also crashing.
>robot gorilla man
The guy who shoves his '5/10 it was okay' book into everyone's faces, calls everyone who doesn't like it a traitor and uses his massive sploogy mess of successor chapters to enforce the propaganda all of Malcador's projects where his?

>>50240757
No. Did you forget the fact that all the 30k bots got banned after the heresy already ?

>play 30k mechanicum against 40k army. Done.

>>50240628
Just an airbrush mishap. I'm new to the practice.

>>50240130
When they adopt the Codex Astartes.

An Alpharius once said "ain't" in Guilliman's presence and now Astartes can't have nice things.

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What is everyone working on?

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>>50240262

>>50240722
It can also intercept and hit air targets

>>50241345
I'm more interested in getting the atomantic pavaise piece

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>>50241328
Well my Fire Raptor, autocannons and Breachers have arrived so probably that.

>>50240956
>The guy who shoves his '5/10 it was okay' book into everyone's faces
Epic meme where'd I get it?
No I mean the guy who rebuilt the imperium after the Horus heresy

>"But he forced it on me"
Who was it that sided with rival dorn against the codex? Oh yeah FUCKING LEMAN RUSS. Only the brightest deny the codex

Also
>iron cage
Your welcome

>>50241328
Waiting on Blood Bowl because I decided to get that rather than start Mechanicum.

Not sure whether it was a good idea or not.

One one hand, no one actually plays 30/40k/AoS here.

Actually there's no FLGS here, and none of my friends are actually interested in starting 30/40k except one, but he has no money for it currently.

On the other hand, I can invite my friends to play Blood Bowl because this is something they could enjoy, but none of them will likely ever buy their own stuff.

On the other other hand, I'm going to spend so much money on paints because of Blood Bowl and it's not even funny.

Well, too late now, I already bought it!

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>>50241328
Not much more since yesterday but I'm always gonna respond to fellow TS players.
Trying to actually make a full legal squad without getting distracted by making characters.
So far I've got 4 sgts/vets, 5 boltgun dudes, a librarian and a praetor. So I kinda need to finish a standard Tac squad.

>>50241447
Wasn't Vulkan against it? Of all the primarchs, I'd trust Dorn's and Vulkan's vision for the Imperium over Roboute's honestly.

>>50241501
Vulkan was only against it in the beginning, as the Salamanders were already pitifully small. After Roboute said that nothing would happen to them because of this, he took his side.

>>50241501
Guilliman, khan, corax vs dorn, RUSS, and sort of Vulcan

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>>50241328
still painting my very WIP Berserker Inductii, barely have 3 colors on it this week and I'm already exhausted. maybe I should take a break and start gluing my BoP veterans together, idk.

>>50241785
I told you to only paint one marine at a time, KA.

Why didn't you listen to me?

Batch painting is bad and you should feel bad.

>>50241849
Are you nuts?

>>50241849
>painting one dude at a time
>and sitting there doing nothing while it dries

At least paint enough guys so that you're working on another dude while the different things on the first one are drying.

>>50241858
No.

But one model at a time is far more satisfying and teaches you how to paint unfamiliar models/schemes.

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>>50241785
Did you paint one dude first to get familiar with the paintscheme, and have a good plan to handle the colours that don't cover easily ? Like for example straight gold on white takes forever, you're better off doing a layer of runefang steel or leadbelcher first depending on how bright the gold has to be. Orange can also work.

>MFW been painting marines in batches of 60, only scaling down to squad-by-squad level for the final details and unit markings. Get on my level

>>50241785
How do you intend on shading the white?

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>>50241328
still trying to plan a list... Why is this so difficult

>>50234027
A competitive list at 1000 points? unfortunately most people here would probably agree with the fact that it's difficult (to an extent) to run successful low point legion armies. But to actually be helpful, I would say make a delegatus and then two vet tactical squads as your core. depending on you meta i would go from there, but the BoP box may not be enough to sustain you a full army. But no the less, Kill for the living Anon

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I sometimes feel like artillery for Legions was a mistake. I mean, sure it makes sense for them to have some, but it's the one thing that discourages people from bringing massed tacticals, especially in the millenium where most terminators don't teleport.
I mean there's the legions who bring the artillery, those who teleport to disrupt the enemy lines, those who infiltrate, those who shelter in their metal boxes, those who hide in forts....and then there are those who brave no man's land on foot.

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>>50242701
speaking of this image, I wonder if FW is ever going to do luna wolves helmets.

>>50242819
If its such a problem then bring a fortification and use it as a transport or get void shield generators or use a vigilator to outflank it or a kharbydis to deep strike them. There are solutions to your problem, so use them.

Massed infantry fucking sucks, trust me Ive tried it plenty of times with Black Templars and you end up doing jack shit until turn 3.

>>50242879

The helmets are cool but that Mk7 isn't even pretending to be Mk5

>>50242928
>If its such a problem then bring a fortification and use it as a transport
Kek, there are two ways of doing this
>20 Outflanking me
Halleluya
>Outflanking men
Amen
A Kharybdis for Tacticals soort of feels like a waste if they aren't Inductii, though.

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Did a test model for my Iron Warriors.

Going to order transfers and some upgrade parts tomorrow after I've decided just what I want, the plastics look good as they are for the 4th legion.

>>50242999
10/10 give me your recipe.

>>50242879
I want them so bad, but for now we might as well use white scars helmet upgrades and shave off their symbols...

Also forgot i still have an unused Luna Wolves etched brass sheet. Simply just need to plan an army lists

Are there Tactical Objectives for 30k? I remember Slay the Warlord and Linebreaker as secondary sources of VP along with the usual "stand on the point / destroy an enemy unit / have more people than the DA", but I don't know what other Objectives there are

>>50242979
Fucking plastic babbies REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!

>>50243029

>Armour:

Spray metal (I used Vallejo Gungrey but Leadbelcher would work too) -> wash 50/50 Nuln Oil/Agrax Earthshade -> Drybrush Runefang Steel -> paint Seraphim Sepia and Nuln Oil into random recesses and armour joints

>Yellow:

Averland Sunset -> Screaming Skull -> Lamenters Yellow Glaze -> Seraphim Sepia Wash (where it meets the shoulder trim)

>Eyes:

Khorne Red -> Trollslayer Orange -> White Scar -> Bloodletter Glaze

Also painted Bloodletter around the eyes to simulate glow

>>50242979

I don't have time for your Where's Waldo bullshit, give me directions on spotting the Mk VII or circle it for me.

>>50242554
I just obey saint duncan's words. me and the nazis have one thing in common, we're just following orders.

>>50242580
I primed white, covered the model with two coats of ulthuan grey, shaded recesses with agrax WHICH WAS A LOT HARDER THAN I EXPECTED, so it doesn't look all that great, then I went back and covered the shit areas with more grey...and highlight with white scar. it should look...okay.

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>>50242979
I'm not even going to look for it, Alpharius, so here are some Sarum helmets.

>>50243207

Legs mostly, chest and arms somewhat

Keep in mind that art is from before all this shit got codified by FW

>>50243408

Oh I thought you were talking about a helmet, and I kept looking for one that had a mouth grill and I was like THEY'RE ALL THE SAME YOU MOTHERFUCKER

Gonna use my mastodon for the first time on wednesday

>>50244093
Is that you, double-mastodon guy? have you painted it?

>>50244119
Nah, i just got it together. I might go at it with the airbrush tomorrow though

>>50244137
What legion are you? Also, what are you gonna do with your many greasy tracks? Kitbash an Ordinatus? i mean, if you don't want them...

>>50244191
I put the extra tracks up on ebay, send an offer

>https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batman_rapist
>NL recruit before Geneseed

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HOW IS THERE STILL NO BURNING OF PROSPERO SCANS IN THE OP LINKS


REEEEEEEEE

>>50244269
>When he found one victim was not wearing tights, he ordered her to put on a pair he had brought with him

A man after my own heart

>>50244298
Well, the fluff is a Young Adult overview of stuff you already know, Geigor is an edgy teenager's kind of character, and the rules and scenarios only apply to the game which you don't have, so you really aren't missing anything other than photos of MkIII Wolves (so, not looking much like Wolves) and MkIII TSons in their new color scheme (so not looking much like TSons).

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Here's a really fucking WIP hardsuit/robot for my militias and cults army. Any ideas what to run it as?

>>50244354
>TSons in their new color scheme
Explain.

>>50234094
40k used to give terminators a 3+ on 2D6 compared to power armour's 4+ on 1D6; it was shit. You still had save modifiers, but since most of them were aimed at armour that didn't get better than 2+ on a D6, the average saving throw for a terminator was going to pass pretty much anything. The whole game would revolve around five guys acting as flak magnets sometimes, and their weapons were terrifying compared to anything else. Heavy flamers had huge templates; assault cannon and storm bolters really chewed through infantry, and you were fucked if you got caught in melee because those bastards come with power fists as standard (unless you were a genestealer, which was designed to kill them).

Invulnerables were ward saves too. You'd get That Guy with his armour save and his power field saves - plural, because there was nothing you could do but argue he couldn't have two or more - and it was shit.

Streamlining the shooting phase was genius.

>>50234102
>>50233853
They were a pain in the ass when they were 1/36 kills before. Taking their saves away completely with a meltagun doesn't sound smart either.

>>50244327
>>https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batman_rapist

Stop raping, anon.

>>50244465
GW has decided Heresy TS are rich matte red and gold. In the BoP paint guide they're functionally identical to Blood Angels.
FW has previously shown them to be metallic red and white/ivory in models.
BL books have consistently described them as red and silver.
The HH artbooks feature them with both gold and white as their minor color.

I imagine Inferno will include examples of all the above schemes.

>>50244654
>I imagine Inferno will include examples of all the above schemes.
Yeah I'm pretty sure CV did the same thing years ago.

I'm more worried abut the legion numbers retcon tbqh.

>>50244589
I used to just walk my 5 man Termie squad down the board killing everything they could see. The biggest fear for them was rolling jams and making the assault cannon useless.

>>50244654
I do mine metallic red with bright gold trim and white legion markings

>>50244670
>I'm more worried abut the legion numbers retcon tbqh.
Yeah, that could be ugly. I trust Bligh and French to deal with more than Laurie though.

>>50244726
>I trust Bligh and French to deal with more than Laurie though.
I dont even blame him. He's just trying to enforce consistency. If they'd planned this out like they claimed then we wouldnt have BoP happening two years before Istvaan and we wouldnt have 70,000 TS just chilling out in space.

>>50244654
I was going to do my TS flat red a gold of some kind and white markings.

>>50242999
Wow! Love the yellow. What did you use to wash the metal armor plates?

>>50244755
>>50244683
They both sound rad. I think it comes down to personal preference, as all the variants are in official material. I'm doing most metallic with white trims, legion symbol and then some gold armour detail, but my Seekers are going full bling with gold trim.
>>50244752
True. The 'just add another zero' onto the old numbers approach was working well until everyone noticed it fucks the Thousand Sons / Space Wolves plot. There's gotta be a way they can unfuck it in Inferno, I hope.

>>50244752
And also not all the space wolves with custodes and SoS support almost getting their ass handed to them.

Amusing as the idea is, even the yiffs aren't jobbers to that degree

>>50244793
>There's gotta be a way they can unfuck it in Inferno, I hope.
Me too Anon. However all I'm expecting is a small mention to allow for both loyalists and traitor TS. It's not FW's job to unfuck GW lore.

>>50244796
>And also not all the space wolves with custodes and SoS support
Dont forget Sons of Horus and Titan legions Anon!

>>50244215
Not the other guy but I ran over there to buy them but thing is I don't know what I would do with them.

>The TS were recalled en masse to Prospero and only a tiny minority on scattered fleet elements and the Prospero defence ships escaped
Na m8 there's 70,000 of them kek
>Luther loyally obeyed his orders to send reinforcements to the Lion for 50 years and only stopped in the last couple
Na m8 he's been sending thousands of guys loyal to only him out to secret star forts and bases for decades what a card
>Barabas Dantioch took like a company of Iron Warriors to Ultramar
Na m8 it was just him what're you on about
>A minority of the White Scars briefly turned against the Khan and were sent out as penitent kill-teams
Na m8 it was literally half the legion son

please stop this new trend

>>50244837
>It's not FW's job to unfuck GW lore.
BoP was produced by the specialist games studio, which is actually part of the FW team, so it's really the same guys doing fluff, rules and models than in HH.

>>50244837
>Titan legion
Christ, I guess Canis Vertex takes on a Titan Legion by itself, it was already the MVP of the Battle of Prospero.
This is gonna be a ground-up rewrite, isn't it.
muh poor lore

>>50244898
Don't forget the token random Alpha Legion company whenever they need some opponents for the loyalists but can't be bothered with coming up why a certain company/chapter from a legion is somewhere, its motivation and why the primarch isn't present.

>>50244949
So glad I still have the first paperback version of A Thousand Sons. These retconns are sounding more and more ridiculeous

>>50244761

Right here

>>50243129

>>50238654
Not yet

One Question, If I decide to field Dorn with a retinue of Cataphractii, can they use IF only stuff like the storm shield and the assault cannon? Or is this option only limited to Legion Terminator Squads?

How do you guys use/outfit Warsmiths? An IW army with a Warsmith looks as the most generic and uncaring army you could have: not caring about ranged casualties, Stubborn, no Warlord Trait and lessened enemy cover.
But I don't know where to put him, as he can have one extra S8 AP2 attack, but also repairs stuff, directs robbuts and is worth an extra VP for the enemy if killed.
Also, Golg isn't a Warsmith, I cannot believe it.

The Legion Command Squad is a unit made with the ass. How come they aren't characters? Not even the 2W Standard bearer? They should all be characters, Deathshroud style
Deathshroud with power daggers, just because

>>50244915
>BoP was produced by the specialist games studio
I was talking about Inferno sorry if that wasnt clear. BoP has already fucked the lore , and now were just waiting to see if Inferno is going to retcon that or ignore BL again.

But I think BoP is supposed to be babies first fluff so who knows.

>>50244949
>This is gonna be a ground-up rewrite, isn't it.
I think thats the only way to salvage the situation tbqh. I just feel bad for the wolves, because at the moment they're secondary characters in their greatest 'victory' during the HH.

>>50245126
RAW Legion Squads only.

>>50245153
Either Power Fist or Paragon Blade with a Volkite Charger. Combi-melta if you really want something dead.

>>50245238
There goes my hope and dreams of having Dorn's Huscarls with shields. Anyway, thanks for the info

>>50245238
Or Thunder Hammer if you really want that 'Smith' feel.

>>50245301
>>50245238
I like how Warsmiths can have up to eight S8 AP2 attacks, just like WE Rage Praetors.
4 base + 1 dual CCW + 1 digiweapons + 1 charge + 1 servo-arm

>>50245301

The only thing you craft with Thunder Hammers is corpses.

>>50236486
Is that a curious George themed Coteaz and jokearo army with a King Kong knight titan?

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>>50241328
These assholes.

>>50245582
tell me the secret to your white. I'm following duncan's guide for white since I'm a beginner but however you drybrushed these look great.

>there are people who use the chain-bayonet rather than the actual bayonet on phobos bolters
s h a m e

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>>50241328
Decided to relax for the evening and put a basecoat and wash on my Janitors.

Vallejo liquid gold makes me moist.

>>50245862

FW gives you 3 chain for every 5 bolters, and their art shows the chainbayonet

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>>50245862
>not wanting a chain bayonet

What the fuck

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>>50245999
Witnessed. If anything, what mankind needs is more chainbayonet even though bayonettes themselves are useless and shovels & clubs killed more people in WW1

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>>50246020

>>50240300
Highlight the studs/weather the black parts

>>50245999
while i understand the appeal of a chain bayonet, aesthetically it just doesnt fit as well as the regular bayonet, its too bulky

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>>50246073
Detach them and use them as chain-CCWs!

>>50245608
I use an airbrush to spray on Vallejo Air Bone White and Dead White over a brown primer then wash the mini with AP Soft Tone. Then I drybrush Bone White and Offwhite in a generally downwards direction. It's pretty simple for how well it turns out. Give it a try and post how you go.

>>50240300
I wonder if anyone has taken that top bit of the HB that the marine is holding on and turned it into like a cut down carbine or something. Looks like all it needs is a magazine put where it's attached to the heavy bolter body.

Anyone have a suggestion for a good airbrush/compressor? been eyeing up the iwata eclipse but have no idea which specific model or compressor would be good
>>50246230
that could make an interesting pariah bolter conversion

>>50246258
Or autogun. Don't blackshields have autoguns?

>>50246342
i think they do

>>50246258
i have one from sparmax with a tank, im happy with it

>>50246258

I have an Iwata eclipse and a fairly hefty Bambi oil compressor. My logic was that, by spending twice as much on the compressor, I get one that's half as loud (about as noisy as a fridge rather than a drill) and refills very infrequently (handy when airbrushing next to your girlfriend while watching TV), and I'll never need to upgrade to a better one. If I buy a second airbrush, my first one will still be useful as a backup and for things like priming or basecoating. You never need two compressors.

>>50245505
Yes it is. Also new thread with Sindri-esque quotes >>50247465