Warhammer 40,000 general

>>50181188
First for I hope cities of death get updated with the new book this weekend and not just reprinted.

First for Magnus did nothing wrong

>>50181188

Wanted to get my fellow Admech players opinions on this list, tell me what you think.

1250 points

Cohort Cybernetica

Dominus 105 + 30 Autocaduceus

290 Kastellan Robot Maniple
290 Kastellan Robot Maniple

Skitarii Maniple

100 Skitarii Vangaurd
100 Skitarii Vangaurd


90 dunecrawler +35 Icarus
90dunecrawler +15 Tl Hvy phosphor
90dunecrawler +15 Tl Hvy phosphor

It's just meant for fun really. Most of the guys at my local shop only play 1250 point games and i wanted to try out the Cohort Cybernetica so i threw this list together. Thoughts?

>>50181223
If the preorder White Dwarf advert is right, it's a combination of Planetstrike and Cities of Death into a new book with 7th edition rules and shit.

>just finished most of my first raider
>the number of moving parts pleases my spectrum

>>50181243
Grats.

I wish I could make models, health makes it impossible. Shakey shakey, hands are freezing so can't hold shit anyway. I've managed maybe 40 models in 5 years.

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>>50181229
You're a failure, just like your primarch

>>50181188
>>50181273
They should be two handed and be done with it, that way they don't get extra attacks and aree still viable, being degraded to PD lite is just not worthy.

>>50181272
Dont hate me senpai, I don't even play chaos niggers I only play Tau

>>50181294
You forget that many models in this game dont have access to fist but have to use p.weapons instead.

Posting this here to continue discussion.
>>50181273
>>50181302
>>50181316

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You now realise the Malcador Defender is based on the Israeli Nagmachon.

>>50181296

Wha-

That's even worse, you double baka!

>>50181332

Just say they're power swords. It's not your fault all power weapons were identical in 5E.

>>50181350
But the small autistic child in my head won't stop complaining that I'm not WYSIWYG.

>>50181332
You think that's bad? BA's Sanguinary Guard have Glaive Encarmines. Either Swords or Axes. Sword? It's a AP3 2H Master-Crafted weapon. Woo. Axes? +1S AP2 2H Master-Crafted... UNWIELDY. So all those +Ini bonuses? LOL.

How is a Master Crafted weapon so masterfully crafted that it's completely off balance for the wielder? Doesn't make sense.

>>50181383
Then house rule the unwieldy away then. Or just put up with it. Make them +5pts on top of the normal PW cost.

>>50179270
IMOO all that it needs is an update, not even a new model. A chunky engine and new boyz.
Anyway, Ork anon here, I'm working on making my cuttas.

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>>50181254

That sucks man. Sorry to hear that. What's wrong?

Also, here's my mostly completed SC! Box #1

>>50181383

As long as the axes are hidden I don't see why you care so much that they aren't I4. They're still going to land. On an army like Space Wolves it's worth using axes even if they're shittier than mauls just for the looks alone.

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>>50181254
>>50181414

Of course I post the blurry uncropped picture.

>>50181383
I follow WYSISWYG as well, but having played since 4th I've just had to compromise as wargear has changed costs and usefulness over time.

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>>50181434

>want to play WSIWYG
>need 5 combi-plasma Sisters

>>50181414
Long story, not really the place for blogs.

I'll finish every thing sometime. Maybe SoB will be out by then.

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>>50181442
>Play Kill team using Sternguard
>I have to pay points for a power fist

Could anyone be as kind as to provide a link to, or just pictures of all the sprues in the start collect tau box?

>>50181434
>what the fuck am I supposed to do with all these missile launcher marines and power fist sergeants, GW?!

>>50181471

Just search the individual contents on GW's site and look at the sprues you moron.

>>50181479
I simply figured the sprues in the SC box would be different though.

>>50181489

Nah the Start Collecting shit is all same as regular shit. The only thing different is the HQ who comes from some limited edition campaign shit and has a pretty typical plastic HQ sprue.

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>>50181489

There's the ethereal rest is the same as regular

>>50181442
Sisters can't get plasma.

>>50181519
Thank you.

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>>50181524
>pic related

I've been testing a command squad toting flamers and combi-plasma (as in each model has a normal flamer and combi-plas) joined by a Canoness with a Combi-plas, Evicerator, rosarius, and eternal warrior.

It's been pretty -fun- so far.

>>50181335

that thing looks more 40k than any of the 40k tanks

>>50181434
Bolt pistol + power axe/maul is your best bet on a Sargent anyway.

No 'good' unit is impressed by I4 anymore and they're especially not impressed by s4.
Power swords are shit on any marine that isn't a blood angel and power fists are too expensive.

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>>50181698

Some tanks just work in 40K.

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I'll play against newfriends new army this evening.

A common friend will be there too to watch and help the new guy. He told me not to go too hard on him, as he is a beginner.
And our last new guy (dark eldar) quit quickly because he lost a majority of his fights, trying to beat another guys SM. We want to build up this guys self confidence.

So I thought up this
>Hive Tyrant
>Two Zoantropes
>Termagaunt
>Hive crone
>Exocrine
>two groups of five warriors
>Three biovores
>some 30 hormagaunts
Roughly at 1500 points

My army only needs to put up a fight, but eventually loose. So does this sound good? All I know about his army so far, is that it has basilisks

>>50181725

See, now that's how Ork conversion should look.

>>50181794
Probably too late now, but I would have started at 1,000 points. At that level you have an 'army' that isn't a small skirmish force but the game will end quicker, especially if you have to help explain rules etc.

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>>50181725
WWII in general is good for Orks.

>>50181794
You noble bastard!

Been teaching my friend 40k this year. I've been using space wolves and he started blood angels.
Captain, 2 x 5 tacticals, librarian / lib dread, 5 DC and a DC dread.

He's won about half the games we played, but I've been going casual.

Last week I used his army against him and he borrowed mine.

Using the above models I went full rip and tear, sweeping the army together across the board to table him, to show him a strong tactic and how powerful BA can be in assault when you commit.

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>>50181698
That's why they made this.

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Alright so I'm feeling pretty set on this as a list now
Warboss with MANz in Battlewagon
Tankbustas alongside in their trukk
Painboy with the bikers
Big Mek Boy with the Lootas so the Slow and Purposeful + invuln
Blitzbommer for bombing hard
Gretchin for holding
Trakta cannon as some added insurance against the flyers i expect to see
I know I might not win alot but I'm pretty happy with the army as a whole, any glaring issues?

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You now realise the Deathstrike is based on the M752 Lance. This missile could also be equipped with various different warheads. From nuclear, to clusterbombs and even chemicals (though the latter was scrapped despite being planned).

>>50181984
The meganob deathstar.
Too big and unwieldy.

The enemy will just walk away from it.

>>50181908
there is that, but we'll do as the new guy wants for now.

>>50181914
Well, when the new guy learns to play, however long that will take. I guess it'll be the kick in the nuts I need to actually rework my nids.

I've been thinking about it for a while, and just pushed it further and further.

That army swap sounds like a very good idea. I'll use it in the future

>>50182009
yea, I'm still a pretty green player, so im not 100% sure about how realistic the deathstar was gonna be

Will having them in the battlewagon increase my chances of getting them anywhere important, or are they just gonna get blasted off the table you reckon

>>50181998
I imagine it was scrapped because it was fucking illegal.

Vortex warhead a best.

>>50182036
MANZ are best used in 3 man units with a trukk or if you want it tougher a Gun Wagon.

You can also consider a 3-5 squad witth Grotsnik for FNP, Fear & Rampage.

>>50182036
All they have to do is pop a single battlewagon and the fuckers are stranded and 'Because Orks' will probably get pinned as well.

>>50182052
I still want to know how they make Vortrex missiles. What FW does it?

>>50182036
The Battlewagon will make them more mobile but also make them a even more tempting target for focused fire.

>>50182066
Probably Mars.

>>50182066
By the end of M31, they were officially only to be constructed on Mars, Graia and Gryphonne IV. There, the warheads would then be exported to other forge worlds where they could be combined with their missile housings, before being distributed to the necessary regiment or fortification. Because of a clerical glitch of the Departmento Munitorum, other Forge Worlds soon began constructing whole vortex missile missiles. By M35, almost all forge worlds in the Imperium had at least some expertise in its assembly.

>>50182073
I don't know, Anon, making those warheads probably have a lot of risks involved, and do you really want to risk it on Mars?
>>50182080
Source?

A STC template for constructing a sense of humour is found. What happens?

>>50182088
The Murder Clowns try to steal it.

>>50182087
"Warhammer 40,000: Munitorum - Vortex Missiles" i belive.

>>50182088
The STC is corrupted and creates a device that releases wavelengths that drive those nearby into fits of joy. And then they die, because fuck fun.

>>50182094
>probably a good thing
I doubt it. It can remove Xenos and send them into the trash(Warp).
>>50182106
Thanks.

>>50182088

>Tech priests who won't stop playing weird practical jokes only they understand
>Cogboys snickering as they perform standard maintenance on the regimental vehicle pool

>>50182094
>>50182106
>>50182080
which is it? they make them or they don't? one person has a source, the other doesn't....

>>50182127
Probably the one who didn't delete his post.

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>>50182126
Wait the techpriests become clowns?

>>50182087
The Wiki says it requires the capture and containment of a spark of the Immaterium. They used to drive ships up to warp rifts to gather the good stuff but they had like a 95% loss rate for the ships that tried.

So now they just herd a bunch of psykers together and gather the murder sparks when they open a "Safe" rift.

The vortex is the result of material that CANNOT be in realspace BEING in realspace.

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>>50182140
That makes sense.

>>50182146
>good stuff but they had like a 95% loss rate for the ships that tried.
>So now they just herd a bunch of psykers together and gather the murder sparks when they open a "Safe" rift.
>murder sparks
Stay classy, Mechanicus.

>gave in and bought The Burden of Angels
>10 min read at best
>Tu'shan basically sees Dante and co give into the Red Thirst, get attacked, bring Dante back and do a brohug.

I'm pretty sure Red Thirst was just the craving for blood, not the outright attacking of allies, that was Black Rage, I thought? Or is it both? I thought Black Rage made any non-Chaplain appear as a enemy.

Oh well, either way, Salamanders know of the curse. Surprised Dante didn't just go "lol warp shit".

>>50182187
People know about it if I'm not mistaken. It's part of the reason an IF successor chapter wouldn't fight with the Lamenters against a Black Crusade.

>>50182187
All have red thirst, only death company has succumbed to the black rage.

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Played a 1500 pt free for all of CSM,Grey Knights and my lads it was fucking great /tg/. I ended up convincing the CSM player to tank shock a Dreadknight turn one. He got First Blood and the bantz were off the chart the rest of the game. And here you see my one hull point Chimera ramming a Rhino getting rid of a hull point and letting me pop it with my Vanquisher and just completely wiping out the squad next. I won that game through kill points. But what did you do thread? Any fun games?

>>50182229
I know this, but I was pretty sure the Black Rage was the only time they'd attack friendlies.

>>50182216
I thought it was just rumours of their shit, rather than outright drinking blood from dead bodies. Tu'shan is a retard though. Dante tells him to stay back 3 times. Tu'shan ignores that and basically Dante lost control. He was like some sort of alpha predator as well controlling the other BA's.

But it all ended happily.

>>50182259
>I thought it was just rumours of their shit, rather than outright drinking blood from dead bodies. Tu'shan is a retard though. Dante tells him to stay back 3 times. Tu'shan ignores that and basically Dante lost control. He was like some sort of alpha predator as well controlling the other BA's.
Tu'shan probably was curious and fixed he could fix it with the power of family.

>>50182293
BROSHIP. It ends with Dante going "We both have dark shit we have to deal with, you with your renegade/Chaos civil war you had, us with this shit" and Tu'shan is like "yeah bro" and Dante goes "It's out charge to be alone." and Tu'shan is like "Nah bro, brotherhoods are strong together!" or some shit.

All the while Blood Angels are foaming blood at their mouths, the blood of dead BA is pooling on the floor. They burn it to the ground. It doesn't say which year this is. It's after 2nd War of Armageddon and after the Dragon Warriors renegade attack on Salamanders home planet. So I guess near the end.

Also it seems like Blood Angels drink wine mixed with blood.

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This hasn't been finished, sadly. Neat though.

>>50182316
>BROSHIP. It ends with Dante going "We both have dark shit we have to deal with, you with your renegade/Chaos civil war you had, us with this shit" and Tu'shan is like "yeah bro" and Dante goes "It's out charge to be alone." and Tu'shan is like "Nah bro, brotherhoods are strong together!" or some shit.
>All the while Blood Angels are foaming blood at their mouths, the blood of dead BA is pooling on the floor. They burn it to the ground. It doesn't say which year this is. It's after 2nd War of Armageddon and after the Dragon Warriors renegade attack on S
Tu'shan is too pure for this galaxy.
>Also it seems like Blood Angels drink wine mixed with blood.
Got to keep the vampire theme going. But now I realize that muh BA successor chapter does not mix wine with the gallons of Ork blood they have gathered over the years. Well, they do call some of it "vintages" anyway.

>>50181794
Unless he has air, lose the crone. Let him know the hive tyrant is flying (if it is) so he can prepare for it.

I echo
>>50181908
Start at 1000

>>50182029
"Rework" them?

Can someone share "The Burden of Angels"?

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>>50182060
Warboss with one trukk of MANz and Grotsnik with the other.
Picked up a bit more dakka in the form of blitzbommer and some mek guns, dropped the big mek becuase my lootas probably wont need to move to often, I'll just hide them well

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>>50182412
Test. Hope this works for you bro, I was the one who bought it.

Could anyone here be so kind as to give me a rough idea of the average model counts of the different armies at 750, 1250 and 1850 pts? Im particularily interested in the counts of Tau, imperial guard and dark eldar.

>>50182459
Thank you kind Sir.

>>50182459
>Nick Kyme
Uh oh.

>>50182403
I've been having troubles winning against a friend of mine.
So my "reworking" is just buying new models and changing up my lists.

>>50182391
I just called the common friend, and there is no air. I'll have to think something else.

Ideas?

>>50182459
Oh it did work. Good. Wasn't sure it would. Once upon a time I used to tripfag and upload shit... Happier days.

>>50182475
Yeah, he isn't great, but I couldn't resist buying it. I wanted to know what happened and what the outcome was. It was a nice ending.

So I'm doing grots with looted IG heavy weapons as Mek Guns.

How high should i do the base/sandbags/scrapwall to make LOS fit the real model?

>>50182479

Fuck it, I need to get going soon. I'll just bring extra gaunts and a hive tyrant along what I thought and think it once I see what is on the table.

>>50182257
I painted my models so I can actually play...

>>50181335
When did Isreal start letting Mekboyz design their tanks?

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Hello, police? I'd like to report a sexual assault.

>Be me.
>Dirty xenos commander.
>Necrons, but never run formations, for fear of being called "cheese lord'.
>Always running fun, fluffy lists that I believe represent Necrons in the lore.
>Promising game against Space Marine army today.
>Turn up, have a chat about the surprise trump win, general good mood by all.
>Space marine shows me his list.
>It's some formation that I don't pay any attention to.
>He wins the roll to go first.
>fires heaps of shit at me, takes a few metal skelingtons out, fair few, actually... #nobigdeal.
>my turn.
>Pretty average turn, taking out a couple of marines and a hull point off a tank.
>Good position with objectives.
>Turn two.
>OMGWTFBBQ, grav, centurions, tanks with ridiculous weapons, formation rules that grant stupid fire-power.
>Half of my army is dead (not exaggerated).
>I concede on turn 4.
>I am left with 2 objectives, 12 models on the table and a sharp pain in my an us.
>He has almost his entire army, minus a couple of tanks and a few marines.
>Phone police to report the crime immediately.

I know this was my fault. Walking around, wearing that tight fluffy list, letting the world see how fun I am. But it doesn't stop the sting.

What do /tg/? Do I stop having fun, stop bringing the model I want to play, and bring something that can win? Do I become the lord of cheese? I just don't know any more...

>>50182706
Try to find people who wants to play fluffy lists (like you), and if you're going for a pick up game maybe bring a slightly more competive list just so the game can be even and more interesting for both? I think that's the problem with pick up games sometimes, one day you face a new player who just uses what he has and another day it's formations and cheese and what-nots.

Has anyone Flesh Tearers Supplement?

They're basically Imperial Khorne Berzerkers, who accept psykers.

>>50182706
People seem to always go all out against Necrons, no matter the list.

>>50182706
Necrons confirmed snitches.

>>50182706
I always ask my opponent that are we playing fluffybunny, funny-average-shit or tryhard and with that I change my list to match the answer.

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>We have something on the way next week, we think you're going to love:
A new website, which will be the home of the Warhammer Community on the web, with content for every one of you, no matter what corner of the Warhammer hobby you're interested in.

Nice to know we can now shitpost directly at GWs doorstep now

>>50182976
This is it.

/tg/ is finished.

>>50182976
What happens if Squats are mentioned?

>>50182976
I'm interested in a CSM codex that isn't complete dogshit, that has fluffy options for all flavors of CSM and actually picks a theme (recent renegades or veteran legionnaires) and sticks with it. Are they going to have a corner for that?

Seriously, though, are they actually going to have "unofficial" rules and shit on the site? That's the number one thing that we need from a GW website.

>>50182985
I think it'll save us, now we can tell whiny cunts exactly where to go and shit themselves about balance.

Space Marines can elect to fire their bolt pistol and charge, right? Is there a situation where this is better than firing two rounds of regular bolter fire?

>>50182998
That's a lifetime ban.

They dox you if you ask for a new CSM codex.

>>50183020
If the enemy has better guns than you.

>>50183020
Any time you want to deny the enemy the charge. Any time where an extra 5-10 Bolt rounds won't wipe a unit but a few wounds in CC will allow a sweeping advance.

>>50183020
If you're confident that you can kill the target you're charging, it could at least win you a consolidation if you're trying to cover groumd.

>>50183020
you want to be in combat

>>50182420
ALWAYS Give bomb squigs to Tankbustas. Remove the attack squig from the warboss, you already have the Lucky Stikk ffs.
Play a normal CAD, ork detachment is useless.
If you want to give weapons to Manz hive then kombi-Skorchas to thin hordes before assaulting kombi rokkits are useless.

So a Supa Kannon is twice the price of a Kilkannon.

Is it worth it?

>>50182530
As much as you like really. The "new" mek guns are a shameless overdesigned moneygrab, as long as they have the size or are a bit smaller than an IG Heavy weapon Team you'll be fine

>>50183139
Well they are about 2-2½ times as high it seems.

>>50182088
>>50182098
>Be Death watch marine.
>Stationed alone on this planet, because of lack of manpower.
>Suddenly vile xenos clown scum!
>Murder all of them with ease, because I'm death watch.
>look down at the scattered, broken corpses, remember that eldar scum always look towards what's important to them when they die.
>All the corpses face towards this inconspicuous cave in the side of a hill.
>Even the heads I decapitated rolled to face the cave.
>Enter cave, find weird circuit looking thing on a plinth.
>Suddenly a robed xenos scum steps out.
>I shoot it in the chest instantly, despite it being unarmed and having its hands up in a gesture of peace.
>Was probably a filthy xenos trick.
>In its death throes the eldar tells me how this artefact could bring great happiness to both his race and mine, by providing our leaders with a sense of humour, thus making them less up their own ass and actually have compassion for a change.
> It tells me this in the hope that I might bring it to a superior, and further the progress of both my species and his.
>Will these vile xenos tricks ever end?
>Destroy the artefact, obviously actually a big bomb or something, why else would the xenos lie?
>Lauded as a hero for saving Terra from the bomb disguised as a STC.

And that's how I got promoted to death watch captain, folks.

>>50183161
Yeah but you're playing orks, as long as your conversion has an honest size nobody will shit you on for not following the "30$ for an 18pts model" standard.

>>50183138
It actually has a range and can instagib marines but it's hardly worth the pricetag.
Killkannon isn't too bad if used to keep your battlewagon "relevant" after it shits out his cargo, Supakannon is for a pricey artillery veichle that will explode anyway if people look at it funny.

>>50183212
Just did the math, a Bigtrakk with Supa-kannon is a Basilisk with a 5 point discount and bs2.

Have a lot of Horus Heresy models and want to use them for 40k, have no intention of playing 30k at all to be honest
What chapter is noted for having a lot of HH era equipment?

>>50183292
Traitors

>>50183292
Minotaurs

>>50183292
Dark Angels

>jlist ads are back
>malware active add are still there
>GW bringing back its forums, finally
I am going to miss all the (You)s, but I think it is for the best. Hiroyuki has not done a good job managing this place at all.

>>50183375
>ads
Are you browsing on IE or what?

>>50183368
He already listed traitors.

>>50183394
Oops meant
>>50183324

>>50183292
the Raven Guard still has a lot of old equipment from the Drop Site Massacre, even though they are shown always wearing the Beaky MkVI

>>50183324
Nice
Are there rules any good?

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>>50183407
Only if you include Moloch

>>50183381
I am browsing on iOS. Apple doesn't let you install an ad blocker unless you buy the newest phone or jailbreak your phone.

>>50183407
https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/fw_site/fw_pdfs/Warhammer_40000/Forge_World_Space_Marine_Chapter_Tactics_V2.pdf
>dont take panic tests from shooting attacks
>reroll failed pinning
>army wide crusader
>+1 to charges made form inside enemy deployment

>>50183292
Red Scorpions.

>>50183420
>browses on iOS
>blames Hiro

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>>50183414

>>50183433
Hiro put the ads there, and lately the servers have been really awful when posting

>>50183423
Just started playing 40k
So I should prioritize melee if I go minotaurs?

>>50183450
Phoneposters are not worth considering.

>>50183431
The best fucking painter at my FLGS does red scorps. I can't do it and have to share a store with him, I'll be shamed

>>50183451
Their rules make them mostly ignore moral penalties from shooting and have more movement when finishing combat and running.

Not necessarily 'melee' but 'close range'.

>>50183482
Nice, tau sounds like they'll be a problem for minotaurs
At least their paint scheme is simple

>>50183506
>Nice, tau sounds like they'll be a problem for minotaur
Well Tau are problem for almost everyone.

>>50183516
That's true
I mean I guess I can just refuse to play Tau

>>50182459
You're a gentleman and a scholar anon, I thank you deeply from the bottom of my heart.

>>50183538
Just don't play assholes, or if you do bring your own cheese.
It's a good idea to have a couple knights on hand just in case

>>50183538
>refuse to play Tau
You'll be helping the hobby immensely.

>>50183562
knight scant deal with cheese, all they can to is stomp an army with insufficient AT or get stomped by an army with sufficient.

>>50182532

So, what actually ended up happening
>On my way there with my nids
>Ork guys 1 and 2, brothers, lets call them Gork & Mork text me, want to come scout the new kid in the field
>they offer me a ride
>New guy and resident SM supermaster are already there
>they brought beers and snacks to celebrate new guys first game with his own army
>Gork is driving, gets an energy drink instead
>Generally good mood takes over
>I ask SM supermaster to set up my guys for me, while I go buy my own beers
>I get back 15 mins later
>SM supermaster, killer of xenos and heretics is yelling at Gork & Mork
"HE CAN FIELD A FUCKING FORMATION IF HE FUCKING WANTS TO"
>wtfisgoingon.jpg
"NO HE FUCKING CANT! YOU DESIGNED HIS ARMY SO YOU CAN FIELD THEM!"
>not this shit again
>SM supermaster has come last into our little group, and hasnt acclimated into our fluff armies
>new guy just stands there, drinking his beer, looking disappointed as fuck

>Nothing I say calms Gork & Mork or SM supermaster down
>SM Supermaster begins his rant about how formations are the only way to play
>I somehow forget this evening wasnt about us
RABBLERABBLERABBLEblarghblargh
>I suddenly remember the New Guy
>He has packed his shit and left

Well shit. Wasnt this a fucking brilliant evening.
I'd send the new guy a text message, and apologize, but I dont have his number.

>>50183586
What a toxic fucking community, man.

I envy the fact that you guys can just save up on lunch money and buy some miniatures, but the fact that in the shithole I live in there's no real access to them makes it so that the players around never have too much cheese or such a bad attitude -- we're too small to infight

>>50183586
How did you not notice that he had not only packed, but managed to leave?

>>50183675
chainsmoked on the balcony, because I'm full of Gork&Morks and SM supermasters shit

>>50183586
>SM Supermaster begins his rant about how formations are the only way to play

Free Formations were a mistake. Always were.

>>50183706
So you invited a new guy and then left him in the middle of a spergout?

Well you certainly showed him the community.

>>50183706
Fair enough, do you have any way to contact new guy at all?
>>50183723
Formations were a mistake. CAD or bust, has prevented a lot of the cheese creep in my group.

>>50183739
Formations and Summoning costing points would offset cheese somewhat, but yeah, CAD is better.

>>50183738
He didnt smoke, at least he declined.

>>50183739
I already sent a text and called SM supermaster, but he wont pick up

>>50183746
But then how would my space wolf opponent get to charge turn 1 and wipe out a third of my army?

What the hell does a flare shield do on a flying monstrous creature? Isn't that a vehicle upgrade relying on arcs of fire?

>>50183723
do you mean how formations cost no points or how formations give free wargear or bonuses? the idea of formations isn't bad. take a few unloved units, give them a benefit and allow you to take something outside of CAD.

the problem is it's easy to abuse and GW upped the ante

>>50183831
Both really.

>>50183831
Both.

File: Imperial space marine.pdf (1B, 486x500px)

1B, 486x500px

How does /tg/ feel about the opponent adding an Imperial Space Marine?

>>50183796
Aw he won't because that's not how the game was meant to be played and why they redesigned it so you couldn't charge after arriving from reserves.

>>50183853
I can't speak for all /tg/ but if you can't prevent a 18" (24"?) Instant death ray gun guy from doing his thing you choose the wrong game.

>>50183853
It's fine, but only if they actually have the model, no proxies or conversions.

>>50183746
>Summoning costing points
Then what would be the point?

I would rather make it riskier and in general make it easier to deny non-witchfire powers.

>>50183876

Yeah, but people tend to object on the principle of the matter, not how game changing it is.

>>50183853

It's a bit annoying that it exists (For no extra cost) but it's hardly going to break the game.

Oh no, god forbid he might kill an 11 point Sister of Battle with it before getting gunned down. Most of my shit is 1 wound and has inv saves.

>>50183885
You get a summoning points pool that empties as you summon units, then refills as they get killed.

Say you put aside 300 points for summons, then use up 200 for two units and one of them gets wiped out, you'll get 100 back to summon something else. But you can only ever summon 300 points worth of models.

>>50183853
No worse than the captain with free wargear

>>50183803
>Isn't that a vehicle upgrade relying on arcs of fire?
>unsure
Have you considered actually reading the rule?

>>50183853
It can be a bitch if you don't get your ++ on something that took a stray round, but not the worst thing ever. I mostly hate that it's free

>>50183894
After the first tournament we had to ban it on our comp since every SM player was sporting one. One of the marines killed 2 Hive Tyrants and a Mawloc in a single game. Next game it killed a Riptide. Hardly fair for a free model.

>>50183915
Like age of Sigmar?

Considering the emphasis on alpha strikes I don't think it would be worth it, maybe if I was given more flexibility on what I could summon with what upgrades.

>>50183921

Have you never held a conversation with a human before?

I know exactly what the rule does, I'm just baffled by a non-vehicle having it.

>>50183921
His (>>50183831) question is a legit one. Flare Shield works on a front arc of vehicles and that thing doesnt have arcs so... no fucking idea. FW done goofed on that one.

>>50183934
Yeah, like AoS.

>>50183936
What unit and what book are you referring to? I'm curious now

>>50183921
He's talking about the experimental rules for the Vulturax automata. It has a flare shield in it's wargear despite being a flying monstrous creature.

>>50183961
>Vulturax automata - FMC
>Blight Drone - Vehicle
GG FW, GG...

>>50183961
>>50183944
>>50183936
My bad.
Looks like forgeworld goofed. Likely answer is "as if the MC was a vehicle"

>>50183983
Further proof that chaos fucks everything it touches.

>>50183961
Since FW-rules takes fair amount of common sense to comprehend, I'd nick a small marks to Vulturax's base to represent that 90° front arc. There, done.

Its a nice ability thou. Cant wait my admech FMCs.

>>50183983
My guess is it fits in better with the rest of the Admech machines, since flyers can't charge so the Programmed Behaviour "Onslaught" wouldn't work, and flying vehicles aren't very compatible with Cybertheurgy powers or mishaps, as they deal with things like Wounds, Melee and Initiative, it was easier to fudge the flare shield rule than nearly everything else about automata.

How important is CAD?

Shooting for a somewhat fluffy eldar list and I want some of those allied open topped transports, but i don't want a bunch of the extra shit that comes in with formations.

Am I seriously missing out by not going CAD?

>>50183586
Got a hold of the New Guy.
>thanks expencive as fuck phone service

He understands that shit like this can happen, just disappointed that he didnt even get to move or barely touch his models as SM supermaster kept showing them off to Gork & Mork.
He also knows about the formations thing, but doesnt really understand it, and felt left out.

So we decided to meet tomorrow without telling anything to the rest of them, and get drunk.
We'll as see what will come out as I help him paint some of his units, while we're drunk out of our minds.
He sounded excited about it.

salvaged what I could

>>50184125
Wait, so SM faggot was touching and showing off the new guys models or no?

>>50184142
SM guy hogged New Guys models as if they were his. Sorry if I didnt articulate clearly. Its the beer

>>50184167
Hopefully you can get the new guy involved, because as it stands it seems your group is very bad and you stand them only thanks to beer.

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>>50184167

>>50184036
They could have just given it something like the titan guard have and avoided the confusion.

>>50184167
I would never let someone hog my models. Fags can't even touch my shit unless their hands are clean.

Don't give a fuck how new I am; SM faggot can fuck right off.

>>50184185
True, but it's not exactly difficult to discern RAI.
Still a beautiful model, I'm getting one regardless of whether it gets a Flare Shield RAW or not.

What are your bets on what 40k Admech will get in IA14? I would like some slightly less restrictive formations, but failing that some Thallax, Adsec, Vulturax or Vorax would be nice. I'd like a melee unit that doesn't die to S6 like a guardsman. I hope it isn't JUST the robots, but knowing my luck it will just be giant robots vs Tau Supremacy suits in a giant orgy of oil and mary-sue fish blood. (Actually that sounds awesome, assuming we win. What am I on about?)

>>50184171
Gork & Mork are nice guys to have around when SM guy isnt there. If he is, its about 1 time out of 4 that devolves into a fuckfest of arguments and yelling.
But the tension there is getting worse.

SM guy is also fun individually, his problem seems to be that everything has to go his way or not at all.
But last time we did have a new guy playing D.eldar, he didnt even find it in himself to give some mercy, and just kept wrecking him in the most humiliating ways possible. Ended up showing less and less into games, until he became a complete no show.

This situation is toxic as fuck, but its what I have to deal with.
I hope the New Guy sticks around.

>>50184261
GIB KRIOS.GIB KRIOS.GIB KRIOS.

>>50184293
>SM guy is also fun individually, his problem seems to be that everything has to go his way or not at all.

Doesn't sound fun at all mate. Talk to him about this shit and if he doesn't, he needs to go.

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>>50183853

Had to decline a CSM player from using this once. He was visable annoyed but we went forward with the game just fine.

>>50184311
....and those, yeah. Triaros too, hopefully, because I want Vanguard in a box.

Hopefully we eventually get Schism of Mars box set with plastic Krios, Thallax, Magos and Adsec, but little odds of that, since all GW seems to do is wank to Spess Muhrines :(
The Legions also get to use half the admech's toys as well, which is bullshit, as well as GIVE THEM LEGION TACTICS, which is even more so. Since when could some bloody Night Lord teach a Castellax to use terror tactics?

>>50184293
>But last time we did have a new guy playing D.eldar, he didnt even find it in himself to give some mercy, and just kept wrecking him in the most humiliating ways possible. Ended up showing less and less into games, until he became a complete no show.

Jesus Christ.

>>50183586
>ranting like a sperg
>over a game you wont even be playing in
>disallowing someone to use formations for 'fluff reasons'
>because they're unable to forge the narrative
You both sound awful and overbearing.

>>50184215
on a related note i usually don't mine people touching my stuff but last game the kid i was playing was getting upset (to be fair he had never faced daemons, i was summoning and crushing him) about me touching his terribly painted marines but was more then glad to touch my finished models

>>50183853
i can't really say, i played against it once but his unit was running because i killed a few due to warp storm

>>50183586
>>I suddenly remember the New Guy
>>He has packed his shit and left

New Guy is based. Saw what a bunch of autismos you lot are and fled.

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>>50183853
I play MC spam nids and people bring this thing every single game

One time it killed a brood of 2 carnifexes in one volley, then a swarmlord in overwatch

>>50184433
So you cheated like crazy against nids as SM?

Great job

>>50184455
Reread it, he plays Nids, his opponents always bring it.

>>50184455
He's the nid player, retard.

>>50184433
It killed my full health bloodthirster in overwatch once in my games.
Good thing I summoned the bloodthirster from a half strength group of horrors.

>>50184460
Yup, fuck me.

Still, the SM cheats like crazy if it's killing two different units (the carnis and ht)

>>50184470
You deserved it.

>>50184471
The gun isnt like normal combi-weapons. It can be used as many times as you want. Its not unlikely to kill multiple units over multiple turns too, y'know?

>>50184476
Thanks, I had fun.

>>50184486
Glad to hear it anon.

>>>50183853
>I play MC spam nids and people bring this thing every single game

>>50184455
Not him but you need to learn to read. He is the one playing nids

>>50184471
How is he cheating?

>>50184362
The Legio Cybernetica's inventions could sometimes have a frightening degree of awareness, to the point where many magi refused to associate with them. The number one example would be the Scyllax Guardian Automata, having no organic parts, yet capable of doing more than servitors.

>>50184535
True, but if they get nearly ALL our automata, I say we should get some of their tanks and such back. We do make them, after all, and if they can give Legion buffs to a Vorax, I want to give Reductor buffs to a Glaive tank.

Can I mix a CAD with formations and with unbound leftovers, or does everything need to fit into a detachment/formation for CAD?

>>50184646
A battleforged army consists of any number (yes, any number) of any kind (yes, any kind) of detachment, regardless of faction or type of detachment.
AS LONG AS you abide by the restrictions layed out in each detachment (remember, formations are detachments too)

unbound armies are "bring whatever you want" and only formations give their benefits.

>>50182706
>the necron player complains about getting destroyed

>>50184757
So CAD can't have any unbound units in it, then?
And, those formations can be allies, right?

>>50184808
any number of any kind of detachment of any faction.
Thats really it. I kid you not.

>>50182257
Did the Knight player paint his models with liquid aluminum?

>>50183001
The Cubs won the world series before CSM got a new Codex! Is there no end to our suffering?!

How do you take advantage of cover properly with Crisis suits? JSJ is mostly self explanatory, but they keep getting unexpected charges connecting. Urban maps, so there's a fair bit of terrain.

>>50184962
roll well, jump on top of terrain, and pray to your etherals for a quick death

DEldar player here, planning to convert some Corsair allies. I plan on adding only a small force, was gonna go for minimum Ally Detachment or minimum whatever-the-corsair-CAD-is-called.

Then I noticed something strange: FW rules say you ALWAYS havd to take a örince in yor corsair detachment and the Prince HAS to be the warlord. Those that only apply to their unique detachment or even when I just take the ally thing from the normal rulebook?
(If so, I wouldn't be allowed to take the ally one, since it CAN'T have your warlord in it. And I would have to sideline my Archon just for a handful of jetpacking douches)

Guy wants to run two Flyrants in a 600 point game. On a scale of 1 to 10 how much a of a WAAC fag is he?

>>50184896
Looks like it might be Enamel Metallic. Chrome enamels will look that way.

>>50182341
Fuck that is so cool.

>>50185038
6-7

>>50185021
no matter what detachment, a prince has to be the warlord. They even explain how to handle multiple detachments with multiple princes.

>>50183739
Eh, I think formations add enough gun and variety to the game to be worth the effort of fixing rather than just going to the old style of CAD only listbuilding. But they NEED appropriate points costs.

>>50184808
>So CAD can't have any unbound units in it, then?
Correct. Everything is Unbound, or nothing is.

I find the lack of Magnus rules disturbing

>>50185195

Not even up for pre-order for 2 weeks.

>>50185136
Thanks!

Similar track--could a deldar allied HQ deep strike in attached to an elder unit, or in an elder transport?

>>50185208
Read the rules on allies.

>>50185205
yup, i skipped somehow the word "leak" in the sentence

>>50182908
This is the correct answer

>>50185208
>>50185237
Also the FAQ. It recently changed.

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>>50184261

I'm halfway through building a much cheaper one from a Stormtalon, a knight head and a buncha spares.

>>50185357
Looks nice, but a little blocky. I presume you're going to add some techy bitz to it? Looks a bit like a giant Tau drone ATM.

I will probably get one, but first I need an actual 30k army. Going to get myself a decent one for xmas.

I hope we can use a lot of this stuff in IA14, since having my two armies be cross-compatible would be just gravy.

>>50185393

Yes, I have to add the main engines, all the weapons, then various wires, mechadendrites and such.

>>50185357
This tingles my interest.
I am quite handy, lets say I tinker and manage to make a model from scratch, its acceptable as a game piece?
Even if it has minor scaling errors.

>>50185550
It always depends on your gaming group, and your gaming group alone. Its generally a good idea to inquire with your group weather a conversion or scratch build will be acceptable

>>50185357
Could make an interesting conversion for the Mechanicum not-blight drone...

>>50181725
That's cool. Looks like the old gunwagon model with the roller and all.

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>>50185603
Our group let a cheese dip jar with four bottle caps blutacked on it go as a manticore for a guest Imperial Fist player.
It even matched the colourscheme.

Yeah I think they're going to be cool with it

>>50185656
You seem like really chill people.

What would you suggest to carry all the tools, brushes, and working table for painting miniatures for travelling outside the country?

>>50184858

Iirc, isn't there a restriction about taking an allied detachment? Obviously it can't be your primary, but can't you also not take it if it matches your primary detachments faction?

For example, if I wanted to get more FA slots for my Sisters of Battle, I couldn't just tack on an allied detachment, I'd have to go full CAD, right?

>>50185723
A paper bag.

>>50185723
a small fishing tackle box?

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>>50185723
this
>>50185816

Some of the bigger ones could hold a fly making kit inside of it. Its quite easy to replace the hook holder with forceps for some more delicate operations or even delicate painting.
>pic related

>>50185780
any number of any kind of detachments of any faction, as long as you obey the restrictions given by each detachment.

(in this specific case, yes, the allied detachment restriction requires that it not be the primary or the same faction as the primary detachment)

>>50182463

Massively varies on the player. For me 1250 points Dark Eldar is

HQ Llamean

20 Kabalite Warriors

4 Venoms

3 Ravagers

9 Reaver Jetbikes

1850 it's the same as above but with 5 extra Talos models.

>>50185603
>>50185656
I can see not allowing cheese dip, but it seems reeeeeally shitty to not play with conversions. I would be fucking stoked.

I mean, reasonable ones. If someone purposefully makes it all confusing or dicks around with base sizes they're just being shitty

>>50185913
Do you often find yourself, or just feel outnumbered?

Can someone Red pill me on Eldar Corsairs please? Dark Eldar player here

>>50185929
>If someone purposefully makes it all confusing or dicks around with base sizes they're just being shitty
Someone in my gaming community does that with their necrons.
the crew'torsos from the ghost ark as flayed ones.
Ghost ark ribs as nightscythes.
Doomsday ark cannon + control seat as a full doomsday ark
The top half of a wraith (without base) as wraiths.
the front half of a tomb spyer (without base) as a spyder.

Its all rather awful.

>>50185941

Turn one I look imposing and like I can flood the board but as turns go on my army thins out. I played 1500 against Imp gaurd the other day and he had (from memory)

40ish veterans
4 heavy weapons team
2 leman Russ
a command tank
2 basilisk
3 wyverns

The 40 veterans were spread to cover the width of the board with all the tanks behind so yeah I felt outnumbered but mainly because all my infantry minus the Llamean and my talos cronos and haemonculus were in transports

>>50185948
They play much like our poor Dark Eldar are supposed to, super glasscannon, but they also have access to CWE gear and psykers. They are literally Dark Eldar +. I added a small cotorie of them to my DE list and they cleaned house.

>>50185941
Not that guy, but you should look over people's lists and count the number of units.

I don't want to discount unit size, but I think the number of separate pieces that can work independently is a better gauge than models.

>>50185996

That's what I thought, what did you add?

>>50185113

Honestly, I feel there should be two types of formations: Primary and Support.

Primary formations include and replace CAD. Examples are things like Realspace Raiders, Chaos Warband, or demi-company, where they are essentially a CAD modified to the fluff of a given faction.

Support formations are everything else, and can't be your primary detachment.

As toying with the idea of supports counting towards primary "slots." for example, a Raptor Talon would fit into a Warband by taking up the 3 fast slots and the lord slot, or a Lost and the damned would fit HQ+troops in a CAD, but a Cult of Destruction with 6 obliterators would need 2 CAD for the HS slots, or a Librarian Conclave would need 3 CAD for 5 librarians.

Idk. Really quick thoughts.

So I want my Dark Angels list to be good but not crazy cheesy so I am sticking away from 2+ Jink Saves
How would this list do against other Space Marine, Space Wolves, Chaos Daemons, Tau and Dark Eldar lists?


CAD:
HQ: Lvl2 Biker Lib (110)
Elite: Five Man Ravenwing Command Squad with RW Banner and Apothecary (250)
Troops: 2 Ten Man Tactical Units in Rhinos with Combi-Melta and Melta Gun (195)

RWAS:
Full Bike Squadron with 2 Melta Guns, Combi-Melta, Multi-Melta Attack Bike (235)
Ravenwing Landspeeder with 2 Multi-Meltas (75)

RWSF:
HQ: Lvl2 Biker Lib w/ Shroud of Heroes (120)
Fast Attack: 4 Black Knights (160) and a Dark Talon (160)
If my opponent doesn't want to face a flier I can swap out the Dark Talon for four more Black Knights to take its place.

1500/1500

Is the shroud of heroes worth it for the RWSF Lib or would I be better off giving the CAD Lib a Combi-Melta since I will probably stick him in the Attack Squadron bike squad.
Am I right to split my Librarian or should I use the 2+ Jink of the Shroud of Heroes Lib when he is by himself to try and join with the command squad that will already be on the table if I am bringing my flier.

>>50186028
So... Detatchments and formations?

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>>50185941

Here's a pic of my deployment, I'll post a pic of his next

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>>50186065

>>50186050
Honestly, the CAD is far more of a formation

>>50186024
Corsair Prince with fusion pistol, seeker of forbidden pleasures, shadow field, void sabre, psyker on a Cloud Dancer

Cloud Dancer band with combat drugs, 3 Felarchs with Venom Blades and 2 regular Corsairs, all with Splinter Cannons on the bikes.

2 Reaver bands with drugs, jet packs. 2 Splinter rifles, 2 Fusion Guns, 1 lasblaster Felarch

Void Dreamer with Jet Pack, lvl 3, shadow field, venom blade.

So not optimized AT all, and still did well.

>>50186065
>>50186081
Much appreciated.

>>50186050

No?

Right now, you could take an army of nothing but Librarian conclaves with no issue. I'm saying that you would at least need a CAD (or equivalent) first, while toying with the idea that you would need to use slots given by your CAD to use support formations.

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>>50186081

and his back line. Before anyone comments on my stupid ass deployment I had first turn and planned to Scatter asap... but he seized. I still won though.

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>>50185656
>>50185929

Do you think it wouldnt blend in?
Just thinking how the machine spirit would reward its caretakers

>>50186084

Sounds good, I'm not sure what roll I'd like them to fill in my army other than I want some psychic powers, I run a standard MSU deldar list (venom warriors, Reavers and ravagers) with coven support. I read the standard unit can take 2 blasters per 5 guys and they all have haywire grenades, so I was gonna replace my warriors with them.

>>50186123
I would expect that from orks, maybe alpha legion.

>>50186036
>I want my Dark Angels list to be good but not crazy cheesy so I am sticking away from 2+ Jink Saves
>my Librarian or should I use the 2+ Jink of the Shroud of Heroes Lib when he is by himself to try and join with the command squad that will already be on the table

So you are bringing 2+ Jink?

Also up to 13 Black Knights is pretty spammy at 1500.

If you bring a flier the whole strike force has to be in reserves. If you don't I would assume just putting the command squad in the strike force would be better than having it in the CAD.

Still that is a lot of bikes and two Tactical Squads does not make this a friendly list.

>>50186127
(not that anon, but) 2 special weapons per 5 guys is correct, but they have to buy haywire grenades (at a rather expensive 25pts per squad)

Also keep in mind that the Aethermancy discipline for the most part only target's corsairs, and that telekinesis and divination are your only alternatives.

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>>50186065
>10 point hq
>absolute minimum troops with no upgrades
>army is literally just transports
>transports with nobody to transport
and one squad of bikes

Is this what a low tier army looks like?

Newfag here. Is this an okay thread to post Deathwatch character/chapter ideas, or should I find/start another thread?

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Has no one posted this yet?

>>50186160
>So you are bringing 2+ Jink?
Only on the single Librarian and only if he is completely alone, it was only if I wanted both Librarians in the Command Squad.

>Also up to 13 Black Knights is pretty spammy at 1500.
In my WAACY list I bring 18 with 2 MSU Tank Hunting Attack Squads and the Support Squad.
I am not trying to be that cheesey but my meta isn't full of fluffy players. Some of them are not completely retarded on the table top.

>If you bring a flier the whole strike force has to be in reserves. If you don't I would assume just putting the command squad in the strike force would be better than having it in the CAD.
Yeah I know, the entire point of this list is for my to TO bring my flier, but otherwise I would be doing exactly what you said. That is why ideally I am only bringing 9 Black knights in only two units.

>Still that is a lot of bikes and two Tactical Squads does not make this a friendly list.
I am also taking 3 extra bodies in my regular Bike Squad and sticking an Attack Squadron to them, Might combat squad them though, depends if it joins with an HQ or not.

I usually roll for Divination on my Libs so if I had the rending power i would probably stick it with the bolt guns so they can do stuff.

>>50186191
>>50186191


>10 point HQ for the tax since only 1500 points and archon wouldn't make a huge impact
>Venoms with warriors with a blaster because I couldn't afford syrabite with Haywire because I took nightshields
>Those are unfinished ravagers not raiders
>3 squads of bikes, 2 are hidden in the vehicles
>Dark Artisan took most of my points but killed 3 wyverns and a basilisk winning me the game whilst absorbing fire

But yeah I guess it's low tier, just making do with what I had

>>50186195
Because literally no one cares.

>>50186191
This same low-tier army also won "No Retreat" 3 times back to back with a different list.
It was basically 36 Reaver bikes and some Blasterborn.

>>50186247
Sees like at least 3 do.

>>50186162

Yeah that's fine with psyker powers.

Just checked and for an extra 35 points corsairs get an extra blaster and 4 Haywire grenades vs a dark eldar squad

>>50186258
don't forget that the GW FAQ (if you use it) ruled only 1 grenade in close combat per squad.

>>50186195
It's a slight redesign of something rarely seen on the field.

>>50186268

I remember but they can still throw them after they jump out the venom on a 3+

>>50183414
>>50183423

I'm disappointed they haven't received a 7e update yet.

Still, Raptors can just use the first Raven Guard Tactic which gives Shrouded instead of Stealth so they can keep up with their progenitors. Also the second half of the Mantis Warrior's second Tactic is now useless as C:SM gets Divination anyway, so they could allow a reroll on the Divination powers table when generating psychic powers (which wouldn't preclude them giving up their Primaris power choice).

>>50183460

Search a wiki, there's bound to be plenty. Also you could just make one up.

>>50186295
one there to.

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>>50186257

>>50186325

oh is it? that makes them a little less appetising, but I suppose dropping the haywire nades and take a felarch with Blaster is still an option

>>50186310
>I'm disappointed they haven't received a 7e update yet.

Why the fuck would they need it? 99% of it wouldn't change.

>>50186386

A whole lot of the Forgeworld Tactics are lackluster and underpowered considering what 7e SM brought by way of Chapter Tactics. Still, most of it wouldn't change in the least save for a few fixes.

>>50186355

disregard that just realised his blaster counts towards the 2 per 5

who is the hq in a chaos army?

>>50186276

>something rarely seen on the field

Because Super-Heavy aircraft that can't Jink are poor in an edition of high AA.

>>50186422
Better high AA than no AA. Fighting flyers back in 4th was lame as fuck.

>>50186347
no accounting for taste.
People actually bought the big resin turn that is the warlord.

What's a solid 1,500 Admech list? Not necessarily good, but fun.

I've got a few things but I'd like to expand my collection, what should I be going for?

>>50181188
I was listening to quite a heated discussion today so I dunno if it's a touch subject, but how does Furious Charge work on x2 Strength?

Are Blood Angels S10 or S9 with fists

>>50186486
after multiplication

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>>50181188
What army\list is the toughest to kill? Not necessary strongest on the tabletop - just one that is hardest to kill.

Necrons? Nurgle daemons? Plague marines with zombies? Some elite SM death star? Grey Knights? Some strange compozition of allied forces?

>>50186486

Addition is done after the Multiplication effect of the Power Fist.

So they double their Strength (S4x2) and then get the +1 from Furious Charge, bringing them to S9. This is how it's ruled in the rulebook and errata.

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Painting my Skitarii up to 500 points with Dominus Maniple, going to add a knight and Astra Militarum tank allies, maybe some transports, go full mech guard with galvanic rifles counting as lasguns.

>>50186486
>heated discussion
>about Furious Charge

Nigga this isn't Thunderwolf Cavalry S, there should be ZERO discussion about FC. It's straight +1S after you double. Who the fuck is stupid enough to think otherwise when this is literally spelled out for you in the main rulebook. They even use an example that's analogous to Furious Charge to demonstrate.

>>50186502
Necrons hands down.

They can get back up from ID, all the other lose FNP.

>>50186468
As always when someone mentions this question

Cult, Skitarrii, or mix?

>>50186527
Someone says Ad Mech, assume mix, otherwise they'd specify.

>>50186453

Yes, but it makes even taking the Super-Heavy Flylers or Gargantuan Flying Creatures kind of worthless.

Why do SM suck so much compared to other basic troops in the game? Even guardsmen are more effective than them.

>>50186578

Because of the way the game has evolved. Space Marines are designed to be better than the baseline, hence the increase in stats and armor, but instead, the idiotic rules writers used marines as the baseline instead and made sure everyone could easily beat a basic marine.

So not only do weaker troops tend to be able to at least match or come close to equal points of marines, they're actually superior just by virtue of being more numerous and cheaper, giving more gameplay options.

The more expensive and "eggs in one basket" something gets, the shittier it becomes. See Land Raiders with Terminators. The only way to overcome this is to make them literally indestructible or gods of death, see Stormsurges, Riptides, Wraithknights, Imperial Knights, and Thunderwolf Cavalry.

Marines are expensive and have nothing to show for it other than a useless stat increase and armor that don't even matter 99% of the time.

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>Faggot at my flgs says monstrous creatures with wings can jink after landing.

Here's your (you).

SM are fine

>>50186578
Play Space Wolves.

>>50186578
Because the game is full of AP1-2 now unfortunately.

>>50186600
What's the purpose of this post?
Did you come here to ask if he was correct or just shit up the thread?

>>50186578

By SM you mean basic tac Marines right? not the entire army? because they're currently one of top top tier armies?

>>50186566
Fair trade for forcing snap shots, imo. But I don't play in a high powered meta so perhaps it is trivial to neutralise those with some sort of AA configuration.

>>50186603
They really aren't. Having their points continually reduced isn't the answer; they need to up their stats so you don't have to take almost 1:1 model numbers against Guard.

>>50186600
FMC's can still jink while gliding.

>>50186600

Yes.

Jink is a rule for the unit type.

>>50186612

This shit needs to change.

It's something to be said when a 2+/5++ T4 model is considered squishy anymore.

>>50186578
Stick a tactical squad up against their cost in Guardsmen, and the tacticals will win, hands down.

They have guns that pierce a fair amount of basic infantry armour and effectively ignore the morale step.

Really it's just Firewarrior syndrome, there are just far too many better options in the codex to choose them

>>50186600
It may be stupid but remember that vehicles can jink whilst immobilised, it's hardly the worst offender.

>>50186661
That got FAQ'd at least.

>>50186631

Can't up the stats without fucking up the stuff above without expanding the stats to like 1-12, need a higher spread really.

>>50186644

Just make Terminators 15 points each. Problem solved.

>>50186527
I don't know anyone that runs mono-either, I'm going for mixed and I think the consensus is Admech refers to both.

>>50186630
Only if you take 100 free razorbacks.

>>50186676
Seriously? I must have missed that one. Eat shit local Eldar player. I probably shouldn't tell him, he will just switch to the cheesier cheese.

>>50186631

The basic Flyer is also threat to a Super-Heavy Flyer.

A Dakkajet could, in theory, shoot down a Vampire or a Tigershark, both of which cost twice as much as it does, in a single shooting phase.

>>50186649

>tfw I just wanted to play a bunch of boots on the ground chaos Marines, but I can't without having to take mandatory metalmbawks metal bawks variations because they're too flimsy.

>>50186682

Or reduce the amount of high S low AP weaponry that's plaguing the game.

>>50186699
It was part of a proper FAQ, not the draft one.

>>50186578

Lackluster weapons, higher points costs, and smaller unit sizes.

Not a lot of power on the model, a point investment that doesn't get you a lot for the cost, and not enough numbers to make a lack of powerful weapons worth it.

>>50186644
>>50186711

I think they got it right with Power Weapons (maybe not Lances), where a Power Sword strikes at AP3 and its lower AP counterparts strike at I1. Unfortunately, instead of giving ranged weapons the higher AP and giving melee the lower AP, they just gave a whole lot of ranged weapons AP1&2 and now armor doesn't have a chance of getting you that close.

>>50186711
>Or reduce the amount of high S low AP weaponry that's plaguing the game.

>"how do we make X better?"
>"you could just fix X"
>"NO! WE MUST DESTROY THE REST OF THE ALPHABET"

>>50186711

I feel ya on this one man, I got put off Sisters of Battle because it needed like 8 Rhinos to function which would cost more than all the actual sisters specific models. Fuck that noise.

>>50186732
>Lackluster weapons,

This is the real answer. Grey Hunters were one of the best units in the game in 5E and they were still basically space marines.

But for one point more they got cheaper weapons, two specials, terminator bodyguards, counter-attack, chainswords, and wolf banners.

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>>50186519
So, Reanimation Protocol makes them toughest mf around?
I heard some SM\CSM HQ can be geared greatly for survival, for example.

>>50186744
It's an issue that applies to more than just terminators.

>>50186761
Smashfucker, but he's just one dude.