Warmachine/Hordes General

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First for legion of ever... tit?

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>>50179024
Everblight likes big fat elf tats.

Hey in the spirit of Warmahordes what army did you guys start with?

>>50179189
Khador. Then I deployed, and restarted with CoC, and have stuck with them since.

>>50179189
I had a false start with Mk. II Cygnar, freaked out about trying to paint it, so sold it to another guy.

Then got experience painting Star Wars Imperial Assault, no longer so intimidated. Spent entirely too long waffling between Cygnar and Khador. I ended up getting the Mk. III starters for both. I'm working on getting my Khador stuff painted up first.

>>50179189

Legion since mk2. I've been loyal to Everblight ever since then. I also don't suffer from faction ADD.

>>50179189
Swans.
But almost wished I'd picked knife-ears or burninators instead. Electro leap the faction is so dull, and gun mages ain't shit now...

>>50179189
I started mk1 with Cygnar, continued with Cygnar, Mercs and Protectorate in mk2, and now Mercs, Protectorate and Circle in mk3.

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>>50179189
I soul my soul to lord Tourk and haven't looked back. although it was a toss up between cryx and khador I loved the Man-o-wars and some of the jacks, but I loved the look and backstory of the helljacks and castersespecially the Dirty D plus I thought cryx's lore was pretty cool.

I lucked out as well in game because I love cryx's tricky playstyle as opposed to khadors run and smash or cygnars shoot 'em till their dead.

>>50179189

Khador. Then picked up Trollbloods and Legion for hordes. I rotate through them on a regular basis but Trolls are my favorite. Also I've been eyeing both of the 2 player starters.

My goal is to eventually own a small army of each faction.

>>50179435
>faction ADD
I wish I didn't have faction ADD. Would love to dive right into a faction and stick with it. But I can't help looking at all the cool stuff other factions have. Stuff I want to build, paint, and play.

Like, I really like a lot of the Khador stuff, but my wandering eye loves:
>Protectorate's plentiful flamethrowers and rockets
>Cygnar's gun mages, with their fancy hats and being gun mages
>Mercenaries' flavorful character solos and units
>Dire trolls with guns strapped to their backs
>Circle's stone golems
>Skorne's titans, cyclopes, and Karax
>Legion's nightmare monsters

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>>50179024
>>50179048
Blue elves stronk

>>50179189

>no one here started as the glorious Protectorate

The faith is weak in this thread. The faith is desperately weak.

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>>50179189
>>50179710
I did start as protectorate. They had the best battlebox art

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>>50179742

Damn good man.

We have all the best models how could someone not like us?

>>50179189
Menoth.

>>50179710
Hey I found the true calling eventually.

Fucking army books when?

Jesus fuck. The wait for them and the theme force models are killing me.

>>50179189

Mercs, dipped cygnar for magnus. Picked up Gators because they're cool. Mk III hit, picked up more cygnar. I thought about dipping Skorne for chain gang, but then Mk III.

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>>50179189
Cryx in MK2. I knew nothing about rules and almost nothing about story, but I really liked Mortenebra model. In the end Morty wasn't "optimal" starting choice money-wise, but I regret nothing. Also, until CoC came out I had more warjacks than any other player in my club, and that was kind of funny, considering my faction.

>>50179189
Just getting started with Mk 3 Protectorate.

>>50179189
Started with Mercs shortly after the magnus battlebox was released, halfassedly branching into cygnar when superiority dropped and picked up a sizable cryx force at the tail end of mk1 which I comissioned a then cash-strapped mate of mine to paint.

>>50179189
Retribution since Forces
Skorne since Domination

So I'm probably going to a Who's the Boss tournament, and I can't make up my mind whether to bring Circle or Protectorate.

War Room Army

Circle Orboros - Who's the Boss Circle

74 / 75 Army


WB: +27
- Warpwolf Stalker - PC: 19 (Battlegroup Points Used: 19)
- Pureblood Warpwolf - PC: 17 (Battlegroup Points Used: 8)
- Pureblood Warpwolf - PC: 17
- Feral Warpwolf - PC: 18
- Wild Argus - PC: 7

Blackclad Wayfarer - PC: 4

Druids of Orboros - Leader & 5 Grunts: 12
- Druid of Orboros Overseer - PC: 4
Shifting Stones - Leader & 2 Grunts: 3


Protectorate of Menoth - Who's the Boss Protectorate

Theme: No Theme Selected
75 / 75 Army

WJ: +27
- Scourge of Heresy - PC: 16 (Battlegroup Points Used: 16)
- Fire of Salvation - PC: 16 (Battlegroup Points Used: 11)
- Blood of Martyrs - PC: 16
- Hand of Judgment - PC: 18

Allegiant of the Order of the Fist - PC: 3
Nicia, Tear of Vengeance - PC: 5
Vassal of Menoth - PC: 3
Vassal of Menoth - PC: 3
Wrack - PC: 1

Choir of Menoth - Leader & 5 Grunts: 6
Daughters of the Flame - Leader & 5 Grunts: 10
Deliverer Sunburst Crew - Gunner & 2 Grunts: 5

Which looks like more fun? Am I overlooking anything?

>>50180793
No sentries / 10

>>50178837

That moment when the victor is growing on me. The real atrocious model is the siege crawler. Dear god it looks bad.

>>50179189
Retribution. Their aesthetic and every individual element of the faction really appealed to me.

I can never have just one army, though, so I've ended up with Menoth and Everblight too. I realize that until Convergence I basically ran all the religious zealot armies.

>>50180793
They both look pretty fun, I'd go with Circle simply because so many casters can make them go completely bonkers compared to protectorate heavies. Imagine Calandra or Venethrax with werewolves.

>>50179048
Nice regulation paint scheme you got there.

>>50180952
That's an official pic from the PP Instrgram.

>>50181111

I wish I could paint my minis that good...

>>50179189

Retribution.

Though I'll admit: I'd have preferred if it was Ios in general rather than the retribution. I got into them for the gunline elves and the robots more than the mage hunters.

>>50181255
Same. The mage hunters grew on me, though, and right now the unit I want most is some kind of small mage hunter sniper group that can knock upkeeps off people and disable 'jacks.

It's a shame Clint Elfwood isn't playable.

>>50179189
Skorne, back in Mk 1. I fell in love with the aesthetic, with their disciplined infantry and giant stompy monsters. A weaponised tortured baby elephant was just the icing on the cake.

Also love Cryx, because undead cyborg pirates. The look of the Slayer chassis and eGaspy's model are what attracted me.

Unsurprisingly, the game is currently all but dead to me.

>>50179189
Mk I Khador. Only two books at that time and winterguard were shit tier but Sorcha hadn't had her Feat nurfed yet. So much salt

>>50181419
>Playing Skorne and Cryx
Oh you poor thing.

>>50179189
I asked what faction had the biggest stompiest robots and was told Khador, so I tried to play jacks and manowar.

After learning I couldn't do that, I went Skorne.

>>50181386

In my case I'd have rathered a more general Ios as I'm really interested in the Seekers but they are unlikely to get a warcaster due to being opposed philosophically to the Retribution.

Eh, maybe we'll see an Seeker Merc Warcaster.

>>50181939
>Seeker Merc Warcaster
Who would they fight though and why? Fluff-wise, I mean.

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>>50179189

First Mercs against everyone's advice. Didn't want to pick Cryx, had little interest in the looks of Hordes factions and my buddies already picked up Ret, PoM, Cygnar and Khador.

After playing a while and getting the mechanics down I was drawn more and more to the fluff, look and feel of Skorne. Needless to say, a few months after mkIII dropped I switched back to Mercs - just wasnt having fun anymore. Also felt like a dead slot in team tournaments.

>>50182059
I guess you're just not Hoksune enough. Protip, take a Mord list and get yourself dropped against infantry.

IT'S SURVEY TIME

>Your faction
>5 models/units you think will be nerfed in your faction
>5 models/units you think will be buffed in your faction

>>50182314
>Your faction
Skorne
>5 models/units you think will be nerfed in your faction
The only one that might deserve it is Mordikaar's Elite Cadre
>5 models/units you think will be buffed in your faction
Rhidodon
Morghoul2
Marketh
Tyrant Commander
Makeda1 with a letter of fucking apology

>>50181971

Well, being a Seeker involves a lot of 'Going about adventuring while pretending to not be be seeking anything in particular'. So there is plenty of room for an elf 'merc' who's actually a seeker. Plenty of room to learn when working with warcasters of various nations.

>>50182314
>Cygnar
>Nerf
Haley2
Storm Lances
Laddermore
Caine2
Sloan

>Buff
Gunmages
Black 13th
Siege

That's it, I think.

JUSTICE FOR CRYX

>>50182761
You're still paying for your crimes.

>>50181939
Not every Seeker is opposed to the Retribution, they're also looking for other answers. And the Ret is now pretty much Ios' secret service after the war with the Skorne.

>>50181971
Seeker is working with the Golden Crucible in Llael. Khador rolls in, kills all their human bros, steals all the order's stuff. Then Menoth comes in and starts burning the survivors and their work. Seeker is mad, goes full REMOVE KHADOR REMOVE WALLFUCKERS.

It'd be cool if they could take some mage hunter units to reflect the Retribution's interest in figuring out how to galvanise Scyrah and Nyssor.

>>50182314
>Cygnar stuff that will be buffed
Precursors, Stormguard, Silverline, ATGM Officer, Trencher Master Gunner

>Cygnar stuff that will be nerfed
Haley2, Sloan, Lances, Centurion, Thorn

>Skorne stuff that will be buffed

>Skorne stuff that will be nerfed
Morghoul2

>>50182750
>Laddermore
>Caine2
They're not even that good. No, not even Caine2.

>>50182533
>Well, being a Seeker involves a lot of 'Going about adventuring while pretending to not be be seeking anything in particular'.
Going on adventures is not fighting a war though. In fact, wars would probably take a lot out of your adventuring time.

>>50182955
>"We are now very aware that putting Ghostly on Morghoul2 was a complete mistake. It made him far too powerful as with Marketh he could waltz through the opponent's army and Flashing Blade everything to death. It was very powerful, very unfair, and we're very sorry. We're removing the spell from him, making him the game's first 2 spell caster. No other changes are being made to him."

>>50179189
Searforge. I remember my FLGS had been pushing the game fairly heavily, and it didn't appeal to me a huge amount until they got the Gorten starter box in. Then I got into the game in a big way.

Okay, again.
Woldstalkers and Stonewarden - worth picking or not?

>>50182314
I doubt any Ret stuff will be nerfed. They seem like they're the level the were aiming to put everyone at.

Some stuff may get buffed. MHI are basically useless, and around three of the casters are pretty much unplayable tier in competitive games. I doubt anything else needs changing.

>>50183130
Ossyan takes a hit, I bet. His kit is just too perfect

>>50182863

A seeker would be more likely to get non-mage hunter parts of the Iosan forces.

>>50183120
Not as good as sentries, but I don't see why they wouldn't be viable.

>>50183134
As good as he is, he's hardly game breaking.

He's not even that hard to fight, as to pull off his big feat driven killing spree he has to move up into perilous range. I can't count the number of times a player assumed he was going to mow down all position and gave me an easy assassination.

>>50183145
Doubtful. That stuff doesn't leave Ios often.

If a Seeker is operating alone out in the IK they're not going to be getting help from the houseguard. The only elves they're likely to have relatively nearby are mage hunters, exiles, and nyss.

>>50183171
>As good as he is, he's hardly game breaking.
As a Skorne player, I don't know how I can beat his feat. Ossyan can feat, mini feat his two units of Invictors, walk forwards, and on average rolls blow two of my titans off the table from 14" away. And that's just two of his units on feat turn. +2 to damage rolls I could understand, but a whole extra dice? Get fucked.

>>50183205
As a Skorne player, I don't know how you can beat anything.

The problem here is that you need a massive buff.

>>50183184

And the Mage Hunters/Seekers are rather opposed in how they want to solve the problem.

I'd likely say non-houseguard, non-mage hunters. So Stormfall Archers or Mages or other groups that are not official military or dedicated retribution.

>>50183205
The most obvious thing is spreading out. He needs to get your stuff in his control and while he's FOC7 that's still avoidable, especially with Rasheth. Play PGBRMTs (that name is long as fuck even if you abbreviate it). If he's bringing double Invictors, those guys will turn into gods of slaughter, especially with Rasheth or Hexy2.

And finally, his feat needs to be backbraking, or he's already lost. Outside of his feat, he's not all that crazy. So if you can bait the feat while still retaining about half your list, you're good to go.

Or play Zaadesh2 and fuck him over entirely.

>>50183235
>As a Skorne player, I don't know how you can beat anything.
It's not THAT bad. It's just control and massive ranged damage output that screws us over.

>>50183160
Pickable in any list? Want to use them to sort of support Kaya2 beast-heavy list from range.
They seem good to me, yes, but i thought if maybe i was missing something.
Basically they seem like good ranged support unit to me. Not miraclous but pretty good thanks to concentrated fire.
Yet i wonder if i can use some of Tharn units like Ravagers or Bloodtrackers.
I do realise they got hit by -3 boxes per model, but did it make them useless?

>>50183297
Bloodrackers (the girls with spears, right?) with UA are still good. Woldstalkers should be perfectly fine.

The thing is, that they are both eclipsed massively by sentry stones. That might change in January.

>>50183329
Nope, bloodtrackers are dudes with bows. Ravagers - dudes with axes.
Why are they outclassed? Because sentry stones are cheap as hell and can boost their sprays?

>>50183347
>Because sentry stones are cheap as hell and can boost their sprays?
That combined with silly strong recursion and Stealth on a high-arm model. Oh and forest creation.

>>50183265
They're not really opposed. Seekers are just looking for more knowledge about what's going on, they don't know if the Ret are right or wrong. Something they may have gotten in abundance during the time skip, since there was a big currently unrevealed revelation regarding Nyssor and Scyrah.

If a Seeker turned up at a mage hunter enclave like "hey I'm looking for info on the gods and our withering problem, here are my leads, here's what I need help with" there's a good chance the hunters will help. Iosans outside Ios tend to look out for one another, and both the Seekers and the Retribution want to know more about what's going on.

>>50183235
>As a Skorne player, I don't know how you can beat anything.
You're just shit then. Skorne's biggest problem is having no tools to beat strong ranged armies. Take that weak ass Krea shit and shove it up your fucking ass PP. And there's the obligatory 5-7 point tax on every Skorne list that some people refer to as "Beast Handlers".

>>50183289
I can't magically spread out my titans. They have to be somewhere near the frontlines, and once they are, Ossyan feats, and my titans melt.

And since you've clearly never played with PGMTs, let me tell you now that they are NOWHERE NEAR as good as people claim. They have a single thresher attack which will hit 2-3 guys, then they can sprint away 7". Then next turn you just blow the thing off the table with ease. I can't count the number of times I've taken out 2 models with a PGMT then lost it next turn, having not even made its points back. It almost makes me want to run a TyCom for the +2" move, but now I'm spending 6 points to support a 4 point model.

The only way I can see myself beating Ossyan is with the warlock that's grown on me slowly like a cancerous lump; Mordikaar. I can push forwards, feat for +3DEF and Poltergeist, throw my Void Spirits forwards in a piece of terrain, putting them up to stupid DEF, especially if I have a Bellows Crew, then next turn they take out entire units on their own. But I wouldn't be surprised to see Void Spirits take a hit in the upcoming errata, what with being in Skorne's top 5% right now. Hell, they're Skorne's #1 most powerful model right now.

I wish Ios could get more involved with the main plot.

I want to see screaming religious zealot humans fighting screaming religious zealot elves. It'd be pure pottery if they cooked up some crazy scheme to bleed off Menoth's power into Scyrah or something.

>>50183445
Menite and Iosians have very little reason to fight, beyond the normal hatred elements.

Menoth doesn't give a shit about non-humans who don't worship the DW and neither do his priests, by and large, and Ios is concerned with arcanists, not priests.

>>50183409

Well, the Retribution 'knows' what's going on. Humans did it, humans need to die. Which is the major point of contention. The Seekers are not willing to blame other races for it until there is proof while the Retribution wants...well, it's in the name.

>>50183510
They want Scryah?

>>50183445
>>50183454

Yeah, Menoth is the god of humans. He doesn't give a shit if non-humans don't worship him as long as they are not worshipping the devourer.

>>50183411
>I can't magically spread out my titans. They have to be somewhere near the frontlines, and once they are, Ossyan feats, and my titans melt.
You don't need to magically spread them out. You can do it with regular movement. Yes, you need to get them up the field, but the field is two-dimensional. And if you're bringing Cannoneers, holding 1-2 a bit further back is also an option.
>And since you've clearly never played with PGMTs, let me tell you now that they are NOWHERE NEAR as good as people claim. They have a single thresher attack which will hit 2-3 guys, then they can sprint away 7". Then next turn you just blow the thing off the table with ease. I can't count the number of times I've taken out 2 models with a PGMT then lost it next turn, having not even made its points back. It almost makes me want to run a TyCom for the +2" move, but now I'm spending 6 points to support a 4 point model.
I don't know what to say. Honestly, just play better. If you get ~3 Invictors with a PGMT and then Sprint in to jam up a few more you've bought the rest of your army a turn of safety from them. That's all it takes.
>The only way I can see myself beating Ossyan is with the warlock that's grown on me slowly like a cancerous lump; Mordikaar. I can push forwards, feat for +3DEF and Poltergeist, throw my Void Spirits forwards in a piece of terrain, putting them up to stupid DEF, especially if I have a Bellows Crew, then next turn they take out entire units on their own. But I wouldn't be surprised to see Void Spirits take a hit in the upcoming errata, what with being in Skorne's top 5% right now. Hell, they're Skorne's #1 most powerful model right now.
If you've already got a solution, why are you asking me?

>>50183510
Locating Nyssor technically did not help get retribution for Scyrah, but the Ret still devoted a ton of resources to that.

If a Seeker comes and tells a bunch of mage hunters they need help with figuring out a bunch of stuff about the gods and the elven soul, they are likely to help. They're not completely myopic. Most mage hunters would welcome more knowledge about the condition of the elves and their gods.

>>50183569

>If a Seeker comes and tells a bunch of mage hunters they need help with figuring out a bunch of stuff about the gods and the elven soul, they are likely to help.

Hey, I've got a great idea. I'm gunna need some souless children though!

>>50183454
That's probably where the crazy plan comes in.

That said, I could see Ios wanting them and Khador out of Llael. Historically, the Llaelese have been great neighbours who leave them alone. Khador and the Protectorate aren't guaranteed to do that.

>>50183594
May genuinely be canon.

PP have been pretty hush hush about who saved Shyrr and pushed back the Skorne.

>>50183605

Honestly, Ios supporting Llael sounds more interesting than Llael being basically 'Cygnar light' as it is right now. I don't see it happening/being justifyable but Llael has a kinda dull identity right now.

>>50183618
It's fucking Goreshade.

If it's not Goreshade, it's incredibly fucking stupid.

>>50183626

I'd honestly like to see Merc Epic Ossyan if that ends up confirmed. As there is no way in hell Ossyan would stay and work with the man he devoted his entire life to proving he wasn't a monster like.

>>50183539
>If you get ~3 Invictors with a PGMT and then Sprint in to jam up a few more you've bought the rest of your army a turn of safety from them. That's all it takes.
That's still pretty shit desu senpai considering they can do their shit at any time. And the longer you wait, the more chance there is that something happens to your PGMT. It's not even a reliable answer to the gunline meta because lots of shit can see through its stealth. Sure if you tailor a list to beat Ossyan you'll do it, but a PGMT isn't a reliable solution.
>If you've already got a solution, why are you asking me?
Well firstly I wasn't asking you. Secondly it's only theoretical, I'm yet to try it. That Invictors can blow my valuable shit away from 24" may prevent any of this from being effective.

>>50183626
Could be Ossyan.

I want that nerd to catch a break.

I think one possibility is that Goreshade's eldritch allies betrayed him. They were pretty geared up to fight the Skorne, and only stopped because he didn't want to be detected. Goreshade could have been abandoned by them at Shyrr and BTFO by someone at the Fane of Scyrah.

Reminder that the Skorne can only be defeated by asspulls and montages.

>>50183704

Yeah. Ossyan really deserves a win of some sort in universe (Not just on the TT).

>Literally invents Chronomancy
Human is more notable for it/has more natural talent.

>Devotes entire life to redeeming name of house after failing to stop Elf Mengle
Elf Mengle might now be Elf Jesus.

>Finally gets a showdown with his old mentor.
Gets shitstomped.

>>50183683
>That's still pretty shit desu senpai considering they can do their shit at any time. And the longer you wait, the more chance there is that something happens to your PGMT. It's not even a reliable answer to the gunline meta because lots of shit can see through its stealth. Sure if you tailor a list to beat Ossyan you'll do it, but a PGMT isn't a reliable solution.
That's why I told you to Sprint TOWARDS the unit you just attacked. A single PGMT doesn't obliterate a unit of Invictors. Would be fucking broken if it did. But it can buy you a turn and if you play it well, a turn is all you need. And taking 1-2 PGMT is not "tailoring your entire list against Ossyan". They do work in other matchups.

>Invictors can blow my valuable shit away from 24"
They can only blow it away 14" from Ossyan. Any other range in the entire matchup is irrelevant.

>>50183683
>Well firstly I wasn't asking you.
>>50183205
>As a Skorne player, I don't know how I can beat his feat
You are technically correct. It isn't explicitly worded as a question.

>Secondly it's only theoretical
That is a fundamental mistake. If you approach the theory behind your list building with a defeatist attitude already, you are of course not going to reach a satisfactory result. Because at that point, nothing short of a hard counter will be satisfactory. And you're not going to get a hard counter. What I am proposing will get you a game, a fair chance at winning. Take it or leave it.

>>50183764
>a fair chance at winning
Nigger I'm up against Ret. Either he curbstomps me or I curbstomp him.

>>50183741
That's how they get all their victories, too, so it evens out.

>>50183951

Falling Elephant is a legitimate military tactic and totally not an asspull!

>>50183792
>Nigger I'm up against Ret. Either he curbstomps me or I curbstomp him.
I am sorry to hear that. I know his faction is easier to play, but that matchup is winnable.

>>50183747
Then we could have Ghostshade. Not as good as Pistol Wraith Caine but serviceable.

>>50183792
Please, it's not like you're up against Cygnar.

Ret can be beaten fair and square. It's uphill, but it can be done.

>>50183747
Technically he was the most responsible party for getting Nyssor back to Ios.

Vyros may have been a huge gloryhound and stolen all the public credit, but Kaelyssa, Ravyn, etc, and most of the action Retribution know that without him Goreshade would have the winter god.

>>50183130
Sentinel's probably lose reach

>>50183741
Eh. They probably lose if they invade the Broken Isles, unless you consider Toruk inherently an asspull.

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>>50184779
even taking Godzilla off the table cryx still has the advantage it terms of terrain knowledge and navy power. to say nothing of the fact their fighting on home turf with a gorillion bodies to throw at the problem while skorne would be overextended and exhausted from fighting their way to the nightmare empire.

>>50184875
ALso it's shitty land with nothing to enslave. Why bother?

>>50184889
Also true. And I imagine Cryx would be mostly as happy to camp outside the "Western Skorne Empire" as the are Cygnar.

My response was to the "can only be defeated by" part, not that Skorne should or would invade the isles.

>>50184889
satyxi sex slaves, duh.
also maybe black ogrun and blighted trolls are hard workers/ vicious beserkers.
Its all moot since seamanship is looked down upon in Skorne culture IIRC

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What do you think of my Gremlin Swarm, /wmhg/? I'm quite proud of it :3c

Posted on the last thread, hoping to get some advice: New to trolls and looking to run this list for my 75

Ragnor
Mulg
Mountian King
Runebearer
Bouncer
Axer
Mauler

Kreilstone (max)
elder

anon told me I would have issues with fury management, and I was hoping I could get some tips on how to alleviate it.

>>50185155

Looks nice, give it another flesh highlight and clean up the teeth.

>>50185319
Looks servicable. I mean you might want to invest in some utility lateron, like Fire Eaters or a Gobber Chef (!!!), but for now you'll be fine.

>>50182314
>Menoth
>Nerfed: High Reclaimer, Idrians, Flamebringers, Scourge of Heresy, Reckoner
>Buffed: Tristan2, Indictor, Deliverers, Bastions, Cinerators

Basically guessing on most if this. I feel like Protectorate is in a good place.

Okay faggots I'm the guy who painted the Gremlin Swarm above in preparation for a two list Steamroller my LGS is having early December, and I want you to gaze upon the glory of my lists.

>(Morghoul 1) Master Tormentor Morghoul [+30]
- Titan Cannoneer [17]
- Titan Gladiator [14]
- Titan Sentry [15]
Tyrant Zaadesh [4]
- Cyclops Savage [8]
- Cyclops Brute [8]
Nihilators (max) [15]
Extoller Soulward [3]
Void Spirit [4]
Swamp Gobbers Bellows Crew [2]
Orin Midwinter, Rogue Inquisitor [5]
Gremlin Swarm [3]
Paingiver Beast Handlers (max) [7]

This is the general go-to list. There's a Legion player at my LGS who uses a Hellmouth in all his lists so Admonition is sw33t t3ch against him.

>(Mordikaar 1) Void Seer Mordikaar [+29]
- Titan Cannoneer [17]
- Titan Gladiator [14]
- Titan Gladiator [14]
- Despoiler [18]
Nihilators (max) [15]
Paingiver Beast Handlers (min) [5]
Extoller Soulward [3]
Void Spirit [4]
Void Spirit [4]
Orin Midwinter, Rogue Inquisitor [5]
Gremlin Swarm [3]
Swamp Gobbers Bellows Crew [2]

This list comes out if I'm expecting infantry, for example a Cygnar gunline. Just push everything forwards, feat, hope a Void Spirit survives, then mulch his infantry.

>>50185155
Clean the base and do what >>50185339 said. Aside from that they're not bad at all!

>>50179048
>You mean Doug Hamilton like big bewbies.

>>50179836
/word

>>50182750
>Black 13th
I hated them in Mk2, but you're so right. They are so insipid in mk3 it isn't even funny. They need a buff.

However in my e-pinion, tempest blazers need to lose brutal damage (and just have crit brutal damage like normal gun mages) so that B13th can actually be fluffy/useful/good because they DO have it.

>>50182832
I also would like justice for Cryx, and I don't think a new ua or solo with a jank trick to counter gunlines is the answer.

>We'll be paying for the crimes we didn't commit for a long time yet.
So

"In 602, a crack undead necrotech faction was sent to prison by PP for crimes they did, but also for crimes they didn't commit. These undead promptly escaped from a maximum security stockade to /tg/. Today, still wanted by the other butthurt factions they survive as soldiers of fortune. If you have a problem, if no one else can help, and if you can find them....maybe you can hire The Z-Team."

>>50182955
>ATGM Officer,
Do you still dream of the Mk2 days?

>>50183510
Elves be niggers of warmachine. They don't understand, they get angry, they riot and break stuff.

>>50185155
nice base...oh wait.

>>50182314
>>Your faction
Cryx
>>5 models/units you think will be nerfed in your faction
Satyxis raiders: too good for their own good.
warwitch siren: 4pts of amazing polyvalence, such an autoinclude that PP will beat her around the head and neck with a dildo.
Slayer: Can almost face off against Mad dog spam, and we can't have can we?
machine wraith: too useful against WJ spam

>>5 models/units you think will be buffed in your faction
lolololololol, OK let's dream and imagine that PP pulls their finger out;
spell slave/necromancy gets buffed to useful
mechanithralls are so worthless, crows are way better
revenant crew (these actually just got nerfed by an infernal trying to RAW everything into oblivion)
bane warrior ua (lose stand up, and gain tough)
tartarus because 8pts of meh when sirens are waaaay better
pistol wraiths, why even bother?

>Yeah that ain't 5 and 5.

/wmhg/ Discord channel: https://discord.gg/KmXzbwD

Join up and chat.

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Circle Christmas continues

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>>50186617
And continues

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>>50186635
and continues even more.

>>50186651
YAMERO

So, retailer email for February is out.

Info so far: Kaya3 has Synergy and FM Reposition: 3. The email says Reposition lets them ignore free strikes; I imagine this to be an error, or else she has some way to grant her battlegroup Parry.

Loki, Tanith's character warbeast (whose model has been spoiled; has a shield and a hook on a chain) has Shield Guard and Drag, and can warp to ignore cover/concealment. His bond with Tanith is Prowl.

>>50186635
>>50186680

Cool; I hadn't seen the full image. Parry on feat makes sense.

So Kaya3 can do one of Una2's assassinations.

>>50186617
>>50186635
>>50186651
I guess Synergy seems fine with the new cap, but jesus this sounds powerful.

Does the Prime Conflux still suck

>>50186748
>YFW it's #designspace
Because this is exactly why synergy got capped. Not because Amon or that stupid elf were too good, but synergy in Hordes factions would have been too good.

>>50186617
>>50186635
>>50186651

Oh what the fuck PP. This is just ridiculous. Between Una2, Wormwood, and now this?

>>50187204
Yes. It sucks a lot.

>>50186617
>>50186635
>>50186651
Skorne died so Circle Christmas would never end

Megalith being usefull outside Bradigus?
>>50187443
I am okay with that, i am Kaya fanboy. I have 2 minis of Kaya1 - old one and new one.

>>50179189
Trolls. Wanted to do Legion but our local area had a bunch of them. I've done really well with them locally so I havent regretted it. I do get envious of how easy legion is to paint

>>50182314
>Nerf
Madrak X 5

>Buff
1. Night Troll
2. Skinner
3. Jarl
4. Borka2
5. Dygmies

>>50185680
High Reclaimer? But why? He is not really broken or something. I do not argue with Reckoner and Idrians thought.

>>50187741
Because people whine that he's like mkII Gaspy2 and you can't defend from his assassination. I personally think its bs, especially with the recent stuff Circle has been receiving.

>>50187842
>We should be able to have a busted caster because other factions have busted casters
Meanwhile in Skorne...
>"Kill me Xerxis2"
>"THAT IS NOT HOKSUNE, MAKEDA1"
>"That means I get to kill you now for not being Skorne enough."
>"Thanks Morghoul2, you're a true pal. Wait, what are you doing?"
>"Killing you."
>"Are you fucking serious is that all you've got?"

>>50187701
Now tell what you would WANT to get buffed.

>>50187328
Synergy got capped because Power Up made old Synergy ridiculous on Warmachine Synergy casters. Amon is already really fucking good with 10 point jacks that *merely* hit at POW 23.

It's just a side effect that capped Synergy means Hordes can have Synergy casters that aren't crippled.

>>50187741
High Reclaimer is stunningly not OK.

I mean, top of 1 assassination not OK.

>>50186617
>>50186635
>>50186651
Not going to lie: I jelly.

Any advice for a new Menoth player?
I've got the battlebox and a couple outside buys, mostly just learning rules right now.

I do have a stupid list I've been wanting to try out, but being so new I have no idea if it holds any water:

Malekus
Repenter
Redeemer
Guardian
Exemplar Errants
Choir

I just like the idea of Scourging the enemy, then dropping artillery on them. Maybe get another Redeemer or something in there, I don't know.

>>50191000
For Menoth, the first thing you want is a Choir of Menoth.

The second is a Reckoner.

The third is... probably another Reckoner.

You want a unit of Idrians (with their command attachment -- the Chieftain and Guide), as they're our best infantry right now (and one of the best in the game).

Deliverer Sunburst Crews work well with most lists as well.


Two Reckoners, two Sunbursts, Choir, and Idrians with attachment will be a base list for most Menoth casters. Of course, most casters have different sets of things they like, but that's a reasonable start for *most* of them.

>>50191086
What makes the Skirmishers so good? Prey?

>>50191116
prey, reposition, cra, mini feat, and premeasuring

>>50179189

Started Cryx in MK2 then worked my way through Hordes until I settled on Trolls.

I'm looking at the card for both the unit and the attachment, and after looking over Prey and Re-position again I can kinda see it, but I'm not seeing anything for "Cra."

>>50191179
Meant to quote
>>50191126
Also, got a recommended caster?

>>50191188

(>>50191086 and >>50191126 are different anons, btw)

Severius1 is a reasonable generic Menoth caster to start with. He's squishy as hell (although most Menoth casters are), but has a really nice passive, and a solid spell list.

Some other good general-purpose casters to look at are Severius2, Kreoss1, and High Reclaimer.

Malekus, Kreoss3, and Amon are also great, but really want lists more specific to them as opposed to more generalized stuff.

>>50191251
Well damn, I goofed. Those outside buys were Harbinger and Avatar after I read around a bit.

>>50188201
>>50187842
Erm care to explain why is he top1 assassin?


Bump to the question about Megalith outside of Bradigus or Baldur.

Is it bad I wanna start hordes as skorne? I mean... come on.

>>50191457
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=erxnhVUk-sg

hey guise, I could do with some help.
I'm about to host a couple of demo tables and scrambles for newbs.
I need to build some small easy to use lists.
Consider I can get almost any faction.

i was thinking 25pt lists? Those are mostly WJs with a couple of solos.
I don't want anything obviously broken, like mad dog spam, just nice basic lists that a newb could build.

>please halp me /wmhg/

>>50192832
>Khador caster
>5 Juggernauts
>Solos

>>50185680
>>50187741
I'm more surprised you want to see the Reckoner nerfed. He already lost Assault in the transition to mk 3.
From my point of view, it's the other jacks that are either too costly or can't keep up. Like, why the heck is the Vanquisher 17 points?
Granted, I'm a new player, but the Reckoner is currently my one jack which has serious value and I'd hate to see him nerfed, because then I'm forced to spam Crusaders to keep up.

>>50192832
I think 0 or 10 point games would be best for beginners.
Try to pick casters that are on a similiar powerlevel, give them 2-3 cool jacks, add one or two solos and you're fine

>>50192354
Skorne are fine as long as you aren't going to competitions where you'll be against Wurmwood and Madrak2 every round.

>>50192363
yep, i love it when players that don't know a faction decide to demonstrate that other factions are OP.
Fucking pleb.

The problem being that if anything is in front of the opposing caster it doesn't work. Not only it doesn't work, but High reclaimer is well up the board with no focus, and is probably already damaged. So it's more of a fucking deathwish than OP tech.

>>50193255
>Like, why the heck is the <warnoun> <too many> points?
Welcome, my son. Welcome, to the Hoksune.

>>50193267
Good idea; what kind of casters are you thinking?

Denny is a battlebox caster, but she's also one of the more powerful ones.
Same for Kreoss actually.

>>50193255
The Reckoner is ok tier. Not bad, not amazing (like it used to be)

Vanquisher might be slightly too expensive.

>>50193645
Then why are people thinking it will be nerfed? Because it's played so much in tournaments? Because Warjacks are currently too good?

>>50186617
Haha oh man that's ridiculous.

>>50186748
That's my first reaction too, but as usual it's all about how it works together with the rest of the kit. One great spell doesn't make an S-tier caster (unless it's TK, I guess).

One need only look at Kaya2 for an example... she seems "WTF BR0KEN" on paper, but actually making her work on the table takes a bit of finesse. Kaya3 could be similar. Synergy makes you hardhitting and accurate, but warpwolves are still, point for point, some of the most fragile models in the game... and she could easily still have fury management problems.

Certainly sounds like fun though.

>>50187741
>High Reclaimer? But why? He is not really broken or something.
HR got a huge stealth buff this edition, since clouds actually work again. Much closer to his old Mk1 version, in function if not exactly form. I'm not convinced he's broken either, but there's no doubt he's strong... probably the strongest caster in Menoth right now.

>>50193645
The reckoner is probably OK. Jacks in PoM (and across the board, really) are surprisingly well balanced. There's winners and losers, of course, but the margins are pretty thin. Swapping best jacks for worst (in comparable roles), you're probably playing < 5% points down. I'm not convinced that there's a single jack under/over costed by more than 2 points, and those are the outliers.

I'm guessing that, because of the addition of Power Up, jacks were under the microscope during Mk3 playtest and got a disproportionate amount of refining.

>>50194364
PoM Jacks are strong but always need a 4-6 points tax to work fine. So every jack is actually at least 16+1 point to properly work.

>>50191179
Combined Ranged Attack.

>>50193632
High Reclaimer's top of 1 assassination is mostly theoretical.

His bottom of 1/top of 2 assassination is the OP part. With two throwing jacks, you can place 4-7 models 27" ahead of HR, behind the other guy's line. Those 4-7 models Prey the other guy's caster and have Signs and Portents on them, getting charges at MAT 8/POW 14 S&P, often MAT 10 because lol 27" place effect offers up back arcs.

>>50194364
Yeah, all of the Protectorate heavies are playable.

Templar/Reckoner/Crusader stand out as *really* good. Indicter, Sanctifier, and Vanquisher stand out as either weaker, slightly overcosted, or very niche. But they're all playable.

Will Grind save Warmachine?

>>50194654
What's your point? The choir tax applies to the entire faction... not every jack needs choir to exactly the same degree, but the internal balance of PoM was certainly designed with choir in mind.

>>50195129
At least the Choir tax isn't as steep as the Handler tax. We pay more points and have zero defensive utility.

Every faction in the game has some form of auto include to make models function. It's how a syngeristic game works.

Which caster uses the Vessel of Judgment nowadays?
Am I correct in assuming I can't double dip getting souls and door of judgment?

>>50195129
Do they, though?

PoM jacks across the board are just 1 P+S less than equivalent khador jacks, if that. Same Castigator for example is the same P+S as its khador equivalent. Melee P+S is the same as their Cygnar equivalent. And the ranged damage is identical to the khador equivalent. Menoth MAT is often 1 point lower, but their RAT is 1 point higher.

>>50197041
Oh, and they're also cheaper than their khador equivalent.

Crusader is at -1 P+S and -1 MAT compared to a juggernaut, but also 2 points cheaper.

>>50196059
yeah but beast handlers are actually decent troops for the cost.
Also
>zero defensive utility
>medicate
pick one friendo

>>50197238
Medicate is only relevant for tiberion or a mammoth. For anything else, they will die before you get a chance to medicate. Choir stopping them from taking damage in the first place is far superior.

I picked up the Hordes mk3 Two-Player Battle Box and have started assembling and painting everything. How much does this intro set resemble a real game of WMH? If I want to expand each force so I can bring them to my LGS and and play without getting curbstomped, what's the best way to do so? Preferably affordable.

>>50196245
Handlers don't make beasts function; they bring them up to standard. +2STR isn't a buff, it's part of the beast that was put on another model for no good fucking reason.

>>50196245
What does khador have?

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what should I do from here, guys? I was thinking about going for an "impenetrable wall" type thing, with the Axiom and Mechapenis acting as shield generators with the servos and having a central force to do the major damage, but I can't decide what I want the central force to be.

>>50199207
Recriprocators and inverters?

>>50197058
Crusade has Arm 19 and 36 HP. I think the juggernaut beats this. Also as i said, Khador jacks are self sufficent and dont need a choir.

>>50199381
Then Menoth jacks are self sufficient too. Their damage output is at basically the same level without choir, choir just lets them be even better.

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>>50199213
how's this? The Cipher and Perforators would give me ranged attacks to go along with the TEP and PA, and then all of my stuff works pretty well in melee as well to defend Lucant if they manage to close in.

>Skorne Titan kit
>3 different heads
>1 set of tusks
Suffering.

>>50199833
>Bane Thralls box doesn't come with Knight bits so you can magnetize

And you skornecucks think you have it bad.

When the fuck does the cygnar hurricane drop?

>>50202836
Probably March or April.

It and the Revelator are the last two gargossols left, and the release schedule is known through February.

http://conflictchamber.com/#bc1bdjdBd9d9d9d7dzdudq

Convergence Army - 72 / 75 points

(Lucant 1) Father Lucant, Divinity Architect [+28]
- Corollary [6]
- Inverter [15]
- Inverter [15]
- Inverter [15]
- Cipher [16]
Optifex Directive [4]
Reciprocators (max) [18]
Obstructors (max) [11]

3 points left. Should I put a transverse enumerator on a unit, or take some accretion or eliminator servitors? I don't have a floating jack kit yet, I picked up a bunch of walkers in a lot on bartertown. Eventually I'd put a conservator in there to save a bit of points and because they're legit as hell when hand of vengeance triggers.

Also, no TEP yet. This is a tertiary army and I don't want to invest in a battle engine right now.

>>50202965

Fuck this. Was gonna do a storm theme cygnar force with it at the center.

I'll just buy menoth next.

>>50198583

About 15 points worth with the casters bonus points included. Each Warcaster or Warlock comes with 26-30 extra points that can be used on Warjacks and Warbeast only. So basically you get a couple of Warjacks/Warbeast for "free."

Most games are played at 50 or 75 points. So you will need additional units to have a full army.

>>50199809
Ok, thingsto discuss.

Perfs are bad. The worst thing in the faction, in fact. Do not by taken in by the lies of Armor piercing.

Cipher isn't a bad jack with Lucant, but you want an Inverter with him first. Inverter lets you work with Watcher to fuck over your opponent.

I don't mind Recips with Lucant at all, but I think the package has lost some power. I'm neck deep in the faction, so I've been partial to 5 galvanizers instead, but I understand that's much more of an investment. The one thing I don't like with your list is that you don't really have a light jack to give them Positive Charge easily.

>>50203025
ADO. Let's you put out Positive Charge on the jacks farther out, let's you fuck over an arc node if you need to.

So, how about that new ADR?
http://privateerpress.com/community/privateer-insider/insider-11-9-2016

Aside from the battlebox casters (PP: We should help the newbies get into it!) And the Journeymen2 casters, (PP: Check out these new things!) how is everyone feeling about the options?

As a Cygnar player, I do feel that Darius and Kraye are some of our least paired options. The only other ones would be Blaize and Nemo2.

It does suck that Darius, Jakes2 and Kraye have very similiar list compositions and play strategies, sort of forcing Cygnar players to play Maddox just to diversify their pairing. And it hurts even more that Darius and Kraye don't really benefit much from specialists.

If I ever touch Champions, I'd probably go Maddox and Darius. Darius is at least fun to play with the Refuge/Jackhammer shenanigans.

As a followup question, This Deathclock Has 60 Minutes, a canadian podcast mentioned in their last episode that the two elder casters in each faction's lineup are ones to recieve updates in January. How would you update them to bring them in line with the rest of the game?

>>50199418
>MAT 6

>>50195027
It might do. I'm kinda hoping it does

>>50196245
>Look at me everybody, I'm a games designer !!!
This might sound a bit harsh, but no you're not. You know jack shit. Stop making assumptions about "it's how this game is made"

>>50197284
Do you need a tissue, or maybe a shoulder to cry on?

>>50205754
Why wouldn't you play champions? It's what PP wants us to play, because it's one of their ways of balancing the game while it's an absolute cockfest of jank.

>>50205815
Although the Phoenix, AZ meta is actually quite large, and full of players of a wide skill range from super casual to nation convention competitive, I don't play nearly as much as I'd like, nor do I own as many models as I'd like. I wont end up playing rules subsets because I don't get enough of the base game to satisfy myself.

Reminder that Nihilators are a better Karax.
>B-b-but m-muh tarpit!
At MAT7 on a free strike, Karax probably won't hit most of the DEF buffed infantry you see. Hex Hunters with Cloak of Ash? You need a 9 to hit on your free strike. They can literally just walk through you and not give a fuck.

>>50203857
Yeah, that's fair. Positive charge is pretty short ranged.

How is the customer base holding up? It seems to be big in terms of sales but in every lgs within 100 miles radius of where I live it is dying out while infinity and guildball run rampant. Did it really fall behind such niche games?

>>50205977
Reminder that Skorne are shit in general and that your choices are between polished turds and wet ones. Arguing about which shit tarpit doesn't do it's job right is like wondering why PP hates Skorne and probably wishes they could phase them out for more hot druid action.

>>50207454

We had a slow grow lately that was really popular. And a few local tournament's we've had have had plenty of players. WMH at MOAB was packed, certainly.

>>50205754
That Cryx roster is fucking terrible. Denny2 and Gaspy2 are literal garbage. The worst in the faction, and both of them are there at the same time. Agathia and Aiakos are mediocre at best.

>>50209343
ok I keep seeing this, I play denny 2 a lot and I agree she isn't nearly as good as she was, before not by a long shot, but what is it in your opinion that makes her "literal garbage"?

I mange to do work with her, but iv got to work may ass off for it sometimes.

>>50208130
>This epic maymay
Skorne's biggest problems are weak warlocks and the Handler tax shrinking all lists by 5+ points. Some of our infantry is decent, namely Karax, Nihilators, Bloodrunners, Handlers, Ferox, Reivers, Slingers, and Cetrati with Xerxis1. Karax and Nihilators both do the tarpit job well because they're RNG2 and can be tricky to kill.

Oh wait this was just a bait post, and Skorne are fucking awful at everything!

>>50209516
>ferox
>infantry

>>50209687
If you want something to jam something in a really awkward spot, Ferox are fine. Obviously they and all other infantry in Skorne are best with Xerxis1 because Defender's Ward is VERY relevant on a 13/17 with boxes, but they still jam fine.

>>50209702
>ferox
>infantry

>>50209396
Weak spell list and very weak feat. She has no real power spells, just two mediocre (for Cryx) debuffs and hellmouth. Hellmouth is a useful control spell, but unlike Wurmwood the rest of Her stats don't really support a control style particularly well.

Her feat is awful, essentially working out as -3 def on a target after a first attack hits and make a couple jacks/beasts spend a focus/fury. This sucks hard because it doesn't really help with infantry (where you need help with def) since they usually die to the first hit anyway, and the -def is unnecessary against the majority of jacks/beasts. Basically it only does anything against Circle, some Cryx jacks and on assassination runs. And she not that great at assassination otherwise. Just compare Denny2 to Denny1 in terms of overall kit. The difference should be obvious. Denny1 gets the the two debuffs, one of which is unique and extremely powerful alongside and incredibly ballbusting feat.

That said, it's not that you CANT win with her, just that she's among the weakest options in Cryx and you're handicapping yourself. Everything she offers has a superior alternative elsewhere. Literally the only reason to use her is you like that specific Denny model.

>>50203857
Hell is ADO?

>>50210735
Algorithmic Dispersion Optifex

>>50210735
Anal Done Orally

>>50209801

I completely agree with you her feat is now super terrible and it feels like they goofed on making shaowbind shakable and making her feat on hit now. iv also thought that the def debuff wasn't really useful because your right anything its unnecessary against the majority of jacks/beasts and now that you need to hit with it its not going to help against infantry at all(hard to hit, high def usually mean dying in one etc.) What I think they should do is make the feat a pulse like her old one, except its either -2 DEF and ARM or -3 ARM and Models hit can't advance and make it shakeable that way its useful without being completely broken.

as for her spells I like them for their other effects like no freestrikes and moveing through the enemy, but your right outside of hellmouth which is probably going to get nerfed she lack a good nuke and marked for death is kind of wimpy.
but your right I do like the model(I dig the maleficent look)

>>50209516
>shrinking lists
>by 5 points
If you listen closely, you can hear trollbloods players laughing while choking on their tears.

>>50212954
Suck a fat hairy chode, not only do Dire Trolls have a higher defensive statline than Titans (12+18 vs 10+19), the Krielstone adds a straight up 2ARM to that. The Krielstone is actually a buff, whereas Handlers just bring your units up to scratch. They don't even do anything for the first few turns. A Krielstone can protect you from long shots, a Choir protects against shooting, but Handlers do nothing.

>>50209754

The anon wrote what he wrote. Ferox are the best heavy infantry in Skorne.

>>50213026
You sad, said little man who doesn't know Krielstone costs.

>>50214173
I dunno 6-9 points to give your entire army +2 ARM is super strong. And they have tough. Versus 5 points and the eternal shame of knowing you play Skorne to have a min unit of Handlers, which only help beasts and are Choir weak to anything trying to remove them.

>>50213026
Skorne may be at the bottom, but Trolls aren't that far above it.

>>50215102
>6 points to give your entire army +2 ARM

I can tell you either don't play Trolls or play against Trolls much.

6 points gets you a min unit with no UA. That's 4 dudes.

IF your warlock dumps 4 Fury into it (Which for Troll locks is almost their entire stack) and IF they continue to feed one of their 5/6 Fury a turn to it AFTER it activates they can keep an 8" bubble from it. Until ONE guy dies, then one Fury a turn to maintain a 7" bubble.

It's too expensive for what it is. But you have to take it if you aren't building a shooting list and even then, you probably still take it.

The only time I absolutely min it is if I have a Gargant to hide it behind and it's a shooting list. IE Gunny. Else you just end up being outside of it too often.

Which again, the larger the bubble the more it costs your lock every turn too...


Not saying Skorne doesn't suck (They do) but the Krielstone is hardly great. It's too expensive.

But mark 3 sucks for the most part so...

>>50215959
The point is that Kriel Stones are actually a buff, whereas Handlers are just the 2STR that was removed from your beasts.

>Put Admonition on my Titan Sentry
>Run it 2" away from an enemy heavy to tie it up
>Enemy heavy moves closer to hit me because no one wants to take a free strike from a titan
>Admonition away to safety
>Next turn kill it
Combined with how Morg1 can give a Sentry the damage output to actually kill something, a Sentry with him is actually very strong because of that 2" range. It's also the only titan that can take an alpha from a Juggernaut and live. The 16" tie up range is pretty insane really.

>>50179710
>I started and am Protectorate.

I've played 3 games though cause no one around here wants to buy a battle box.

>>50218916
Since our str buffs are for one turn I don't think people mind taking a free strike. Yeah that's 6 or 7 damage to their heavy but worth not falling into a trap.

>>50211028
Tanks man.

I think that the Skorne Lights need +1 MAT and +1 STR and +1 Fury

I think that the Skorne Heavies need +1 MAT, +1 DEF, +1 FURY, and +1 STR

>>50218703
You are retarded. For troll models to become on par with their point equivalent they need between 9 and 25 points of support. For example fenns can only trade effectively with dawnguard when they are under stone with ua and either caller or chronicler.

>>50221022
Not the other guy, but surely that's a problem with Dawnguard? I wouldn't be even slightly surprised if Sentinels at least were nerfed in the coming errata.

>>50221482
Sentinels don't need changes. They aren't cancerous enough that people will call them broken. They are simply good, but aren't the bane level of ubiquity

>>50222253
They're hands down the best infantry unit in the game.

Nothing compares favorably to them.

>>50222285
Yes, but they don't skew the numbers great to the point where you need dedicated answers for them and them alone. Anti infantry techs are good enough that they aren't unbeatable.

>>50222323
Banes just needed anti infantry tech as well, man.

Hell, Ret has far more ways to keep the unit alive than Cryx ever did.

>>50220664
Here's what needs to happen to Skorne.

>Beatstick beasts get +2PS through a combination of STR and POW increases, heavies that are clearly unplayable (Rhinodon, Archidon, Molik Karn) have abilities stapled to them until they look worth fielding
>The worst of our infantry given little buffs here and there
>Handler +2STR buff removed, replaced with free charges
>Cyclops all get +1RAT/MAT, Savage and Raider given relevant animi, Shaman can now be forced to craft talisman
>Spell Slaves reverted to how they worked in Mk2
>All warlocks barring Rasheth, Zaadesh2, Xerxis1, and Morghoul1 reworked, abilities improved, feats improved, spell lists improved, Morghoul2 given a fucking miracle

Bang, Skorne is now fine. Right now we can only stand a chance if we know what our opponent is doing so we're pseudo counterlisting. I've completely given up on Mordikaar at this point though. Void Spirits are absolutely diabolical in the right situation, but if my opponent's lists are Irusk2 and Karchev, I just straight up can't pick Mordikaar because I can't kill his heavies if my opponent picks Karchev. I played Mordikaar today and my heavies just got blown off the table by Legion heavies, then my heavies couldn't really deal with his. Mordikaar was at 11 fury at one point, but his spell list is just fucking trash so there was nothing I could do with it.

>>50222349
Banes needed very specific tech. You needed anti tough, you needed anti stealth. You also had recursion to worry about. No one is going "oh fuck, sentinel spams" like the banes did.

Quit panicking over nothing.

>>50222410
Bane Knights were the Banes to deal with, no one gave a shit about Thralls, man.

>>50222391
They're not going to remove the +2 STR buff, man, and the problems with those changes is that they don't want Skorne to just be another warbeast alpha faction, which is what you're changing them into.

>>50222473
So what am I meant to do with my big punchy things if I'm not meant to be punching things?

>>50222490
You're now oversimplifying the issue to the point that it doesn't mean anything.

Every factions have heavies that are designed to punch, but that doesn't make them all exactly the same.

>>50222467
People cared plenty for recursions or bane spam list. You are panicking and clinging on to a fear of nothing

>>50222549
Bane Spam lists used Bane Knights, man.

And Bane related recursion was directly related to casters, which is what people teched against in Mk2. Not specifically banes, but the casters that turned Banes on so much.

>>50222547
Well the idea is that factions have their good aspects and bad aspects. What exactly are the good aspects of Skorne? I've played the faction for a few years now and I just don't see any. I can gave you plenty of downsides like the Handler tax, overcosted beatsticks, and shit warlocks, but I can't really name anything good about the faction.

>>50222614
The point isn't that Skorne is bad.

The point is that I doubt very much they're going to make Skorne good but just pumping all their stats straight up.

>>50222801
Don't give me that "le counterpunch faction xD" nonsense. We have what, the Bronzeback (see: overcosted, shit animi) with countercharge, the Sentry (see: low damage) with Retaliatory Strike as an animus (see: shit animi), and now Zaadesh2 with battlegroup countercharge and feat? I mean, Zaadesh2 looks really strong, but that's basically nothing.

>>50222253

How to describe Sentinels... I could only wish to have a model as perfectly designed as a Sentinel in my faction. It is a Dreadnought among pre-dreadnoughts; same tech-base, same construction techiques, order of magnitude better result because no effort or material wasted on non-contributory to its fundamental purpose crap.

Exactly as fast as it needs to be, exactly as hard as it needs to be, exactly as powerful as it needs to be, does *nothing* it doesn't need to do.

>meanwhile: *But I don't give a fuck* if my UA gives me boosted attack rolls once a game
>PP: LOL tough UR paying 4 it #designspace

Friends tell me I shouldn't start playing as the circle but I love the idea of a faction of people who represent nature as red in tooth and claw.

Should I listen to them?

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362KB, 600x600px

>>50223094
>I could only wish to have a model as perfectly designed as a Sentinel in my faction
Here you go, you can fucking have it. Dawnstar Sentinels meanwhile are not well designed, they are simply too much. 26 points of damage on the charge on a MAT7 model with RNG2? Like nigger just fucking no, they can make mincemeat of heavies. Light infantry with zero support should not be able to melt heavies. Oh and of course, it's ARM17 so doesn't care about blast damage. Oh and Vengeance because HAHA WHY NOT.

>>50223229
Play what you want man. Unless its Skorne.

>>50222915
Zaal1 and 2.

Makeda1

The armor buff on bugs

Brutes ability to force rerolls

Soul collection.

Those are just the abilities off the top of my head.

They're bad, yes, but they're in that role.

>>50223237
>light infantry should not mince heavies
>cost 50% more than heavy jacks

>>50223585
>light infantry should not mince heavies
>cost 50% more than heavy jacks
>cost the same as relevant heavy beasts
>only takes 4-5 sentinels to kill a heavy

>>50223556
>Makeda1
Makeda1 can counterpunch? You know the models can't attack on the turn they come down right? And if your opponent can finish off the unit, her feat is completely negated. She's honestly one of the worst warlocks in the faction now.

>The armor buff on bugs
Aradus? They don't have any kind of armour buff unless you mean Carapace, which isn't exactly counterpunch.

>Brutes ability to force rerolls
It's sweet but the Brute itself isn't really worth bringing outside of memelists with Zaadesh1 + double Cyclops with Morg1.

>Soul collection
Very limited soul collection. Models have asinine rules as to which souls they can collect. Only being able to collect souls from friendly living models (DESPITE CONSTUCTS EXPLICITLY HAVING A SOUL NOW) is retarded. Oh apart from Mordikaar who can collect enemy souls... if they die 2" away from the squishy ranged caster. And Soulwards are a LOT worse against Warmachine factions.

That you can name a few means it's present but clearly not good enough. So just bump the numbers up like I suggested.

Makeda1 is a crime against humanity though. They even took away her fucking combo strike. It wasn't even good, it had no special abilities attached like Xerxis and his combo smite.

>>50223640
This might shock you, but it's possible that Skorne aren't the metric upon which all other factions are balanced.

Not to mention that Sentinels are bound by coherency rules and their ARM's dependency on B2B, so it's more like:
>an entire unit of Sentinels can kill one or two heavies assuming I make terrible tactical plays, like leaving two open heavies in the charge bubble of a Dawnguard Sentinel unit

They're fucking amazing infantry, but their mobility options aren't a whole lot better than a heavy's - unless you decide to pick one or two dudes off at a time and feed them Vengeance triggers.

What bothers me the most in mk3 is that we have jumped from the frying pan into the fire. Cue meatloaf.

But it's just the same old shit as in mk2, except with different models.
we have op units, op casters and op bullshit spam lists.

>oh but goy, but it wasn't the 15 mad dog list that won, it was the player.
You fucking naive pleb.

>>50223794
So you're suggesting that I don't try and whittle down powerful infantry from range because it has Vengeance? Welcome to Banesville.

>>50223842
My Skorne gunline shall prevail!

>>50223774
Hey look, you forgot to note the part that

>They're bad, yes, but they're in that role.

As if I was identifying that the abilities aren't up to snuff.

So good job posting fucking nothing, I guess.

>>50223842
The issue with banes was that you COULDNT stop them at range and in melee three bane models would threaten assasination.

>>50223953
Other factions quite likely have just as much "counterpunch" shit as Skorne. Karchev can give his entire battlegroup countercharge, Skorne only has access to Vengeance through Hexeris1 while other factions just get it normally, Menoth has those guys who get stronger the more of their unit are dead (SEE: COUNTERPUNCH). Skorne is no more of a counterpunch faction than any other. You may as well have listed our damage pumps and said we're the damage pump faction.

>>50224066
Skorne gets vengeance normally as well.

And yes, Menoth has elements of Counterpunch as well. Who knew?

And Skorne pretty well lacks for unconditional damage buffs

>>50224066
I cant take Skorne players complaints seriously. They were complaining just as much at the end of mkII when not only they had a big tournament presence, bronzenack feeled like a collosal without the downside of being unable to hide and titans and cyclopi were just slightly behind. Id kill for beasts like these. So I will assume they just always complain.

>>50224110
>Skorne pretty well lacks for unconditional damage buffs
I THINK YOU'LL FIND THAT SKORNE HAS

MORGHOUL1
XERXIS1 (BOTH FEAT AND BATTLE PLAN)
XERXIS2
BEAST HANDLERS
XEKAAR
RASHETH'S ARM DEBUFFS

THERE'S ALL KINDS OF DAMAGE PUMPS IN SKORNE YOU CISGENDERED OPPRESSOR, SKORNE IS CLEARLY A DAMAGE PUMP FACTION

>>50224169
>cyclops were just slightly behind
Since when? They've always been overcosted and unplayable. The Raider had a support animus in Mk2 which got made self only in Mk3. Other than that you'd sometimes see a Brute for Memeguard, but rarely a Shaman and never a Savage. In Mk3, all Cyclops are unplayable as a rule. The Bronzeback can still one round a Colossal owing to how Skorne's only competitive casters (Rasheth, Morg1, Xerxis1) are the ones with damage pumps beyond Handler Enrage.

Maybe our beasts wouldn't feel so bad if PP hadn't gone so overboard with buffing jacks. Juggernauts are just a disgusting design mistake. I reveled at killing two of the cunts with a single Bronzeback activation today. Enrage, Abuse, stand between them but 1" away, punch and slap one, chain attack grab to throw it into the other Juggernaut, proceed to pound both into the dirt. It felt like justice.

Thornfall Alliance!

All Farrow warlocks+ Dr A.
non-character farrow warbeasts
EFAARIT MODELS/UNITS
Farrow Models/Units
AA, GtW, Hobh, RMtim, SO, SGC, VP, R&B

every 20pts of farrow units or battle engines= a free non-character solo, weapon crew, or command attachment.

Farrow Warbeasts gainRetalitory strike

one Farrow Commando unit gains Ambush

>>50224172

Meaning Morghoul1 and Rasheth.

All that other shit, ALL THAT OTHER SHIT, didn't get halfway to the door before PP thought better of it and decided to "balance" shit there and elsewhere to make it all a null net effect (be it by making the caster assassination bait, or seeing how you got a buff coming to you you can be justly nerfed in anticipation of it, or whatever the fuck they were thinking with Xerxis1's battle plan).

>that moment when the kingdom of Rhul will never be it's own faction

Fucking kill me senpai.

>>50223842
How much did a unit of ye olde Banes cost? When I drop 22 points on a single unit, it's nice to have something that helps guarantee they accomplish something. Vengeance is there to make sure the slightly sluggish single wound guys have to be dealt with seriously and not in half-measures.

Rather than plink one off and complain when the rest get an extra advance, you can dedicate actual firepower to killing them, charge them with something that can splatter a handful and deny charges to their buddies, or force/bait them into charging something that isn't required to win you the game.

Sentinels with UA basically read "either focus on killing us (and it won't be easy), or tie us up before we get a charge on something critical." Banes + UA read "we're going to walk through everything between us and the closest target like it isn't there, also you can't shoot us and 33% of the time we completely ignore death so hope you have a pile of screening units nyeh"

The major difference between the two is that Sentinels will actually die if you direct moderate to heavy POW in their direction from any source, while Banes didn't even give you the option until they hit melee and removed something.

Note that my argument is hampered by not knowing how much Banes used to cost because the fucker who played Cryx around here when I started playing never let anyone look at his material.

>>50225439
Bane Knights were 6/10, and Bane Thralls were 5/8 and the UA was 3.

>>50224169
You've never played Skorne into Kreuger 2 I take it.

>>50225683
>>50224169
Or any control caster for that matter. Krueger2 was probably the most manageable of the bunch.

>>50224042
Except it's Bane Knights who have Vengeance, Warriors/Thralls never did, and the Knights never had Stealth OR Tough, so although they have higher armour they're still easier to pick off from range by simply being able to shoot

>>50225964
>Dunk a Cannoneer shot on some Sentinels
>Initial target is fucked
>The splash is 2d6-9
This is NOT okay.

>>50224169

That in a nutshell is why Skorne is in such deep shit. They were complaining in mk2 because they were having problems in mk2. It wasn't taken as seriously as it ought to have been. So things coast along through to mk3 transition as if it were just another faction, just one with slightly larger than normal and slightly louder than normal complainer element... and everything just fucking falls apart. Because people playing skorne were noticing throughout mk2 that there was something wrong with skorne, and it was easier to doubt them than believe what they were saying.

>>50226009
Without our one model that could steal wins, Molik Karn, Skorne just can't do it.

>>50226009
There are problems now, but before there was a negligible amount. But people were just as vocal in their dissatisfaction. I had skorne players alpha strike my runes of war beast brick of the board from outside my threat range. That was not ok. Maybe if they got their shit together earlier their issues would be more respectable now.

>>50226105
Skorne players had been saying for years that the only way they could win was through Molik Karn. It was really well known man. People joked that Karn was the warlock and your warlock was just his attachment.

>>50224169
They were complaining at the end of MkII because, despite having a big tournament presence, they still had legitimate problems - mostly with the viability of their roster of choices due to the nature of control casters running a monopoly on the higher echelons of play.

Its easy to see Mordikaar and Xerxis1 - Fist of Halaak and go "Skorne's okay"

Thing was outside of that, they were hurting.

Then MkIII came along. A bunch of rules were nerfed such as spell slave, that indirectly affected Skorne hugely. Their mainstays were nerfed across the board. And now they're in a shithole. Nevermind the idea that the devs don't know what they are doing with the faction and have admitted it or that they are being repurposed into a shit concept that is hard to balance like a counterpunch faction.

>>50226148
Zaal, Rasheth and Makeda seemed to kick ass too. The current state is PPs fault mostly becuse they have some grand new idea but are afraid to introduce it as to not shake things up so they just end up tuning things wrong and all goes to shit (or, in khadors case, through the roof). I think skorne could do great as a weaker at first faction than builds momentum by applying double edged buffs and going berserk when fighting, which doesnt neccesarily mean counterpunch.

If everybody hates mk3 so much then why dont we just get a mk2 community going? With our own tournaments with blackjack, hookers and banespam. Warhammer people do this, why cant wmh?

>>50226299

Because mk3 isn't like AoS. Plus it only seems like skorne hates mk3. Typical skorne always bitching.

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Go go Hoplite Griffon. Now to work on Pankration Hydra.

>>50226299
Because, for all that people like to bitch about any shortcoming, MK3 is a legitimate improvement over Mk2.

>>50223899
1st time running xekaar, tried a pseudo gunline, basically mammoth w/ tibbers to shieldguard, + paingivers to heal. Then vennators covered by a krea and brute shieldguard. Shooting prowess was okay, but when I can out heal my opponents damage, it became a huge problem. Granted it was against khador (and i pretty much had immunity to blast damage).

I lost one paingiver the whole game, managed to rescue my mammoth twice from near death. Meanwhile tibbers tore up both a jugg and behemoth. A skorne gunline, while not super scary isn't necessarily a bad idea.

>>50226299
This isn't some basement gw game.
the goal is to meet wider player base and opponents.

>>50226391
That is subjective. I have seen a lot of people unhappy with the oversimplifications. Taking away psychological rules, removing some interactions and completely giving up on flavour based rules, especially with terrain and power attacks. Maybe it doesnt affect competitive much but casual games lost a lot of cheese potential and the game feels even drier than before.

>>50226339
for the love of god boil some water and straighten out that halberd.

>>50226464
In Mk2 you brought your faction's best list, then you brought an anti-Cryx list. The game is nowhere near that level now.

>>50226496
You are proving my point. Competitive is fine, fun is gone. Read my post again.

>>50226533
>casual games lost a lot of cheese potential
What's the problem? You can't pull out the rulebook on new players and tell them they've lost now or what?

>>50226428
>w/ tibbers to shieldguard
Should've just brought a Sentry. Mortality up a target and a Sentry will kill it with ease.

>>50226464
Oversimplification? They mostly just streamlined and removed a bunch of shit that did nothing but bog down games. I wish they had reworked psychology instead of removing it, but I much prefer playing without it than playing with the old psychology rules. As for flavor rules, there are still plenty of flavorful rules, they just got rid of many that existed for no other purpose than flavor.

MK3 is an improvement. It's not perfect, but it's better than Mk2.

>>50226473
It's a knife-ear weapon.
So the last thing it should be is straight!

>>50225180
You want more Spd 4?

>>50225180
Good, fuck the Rhulic untermensch

>>50226473
It is done, thanks for that callout. Soon these elves will be properly Classical and I can post pics that hopefully don't make me look like an idiot.

>>50226699
Elves
>not an idiot

Too late boy.

>>50225982
2d6-9 is cherry-picked.

That's only if the Ret player isn't playing Helynna (or Issyria), and Iron Zeal isn't up. On the turn that shooting matters, it'll be 2d6-12, and the guy hit by the main shot survives on anything under a 6. If it's Helynna or Issyria on the turn that matters, that goes to 2d6-14 (lol) and needing an 8 on the main shot to even kill one dude.

>>50226775
Ironic how the most martial faction in the game can't support their army for shit.

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>>50226708
do not bully

>>50226464
I'm in both a large and very competitive meta, and:

>Taking away psychological rules
I have not seen one person complain in real life.

>giving up on flavour based rules,
I have not seen one person complain in real life.

>especially with terrain and power attacks
I have not seen one person complain in real life.


>Maybe it doesnt affect competitive much but casual games lost a lot of cheese potential and the game feels even drier than before.

I've seen complaints locally, but nothing like the above. What people have complained about:

- Jackspam (to some degree)
- Sloan existing, at all
- Madrak2
- Wurmwood
- High Reclaimer
- Storm Lances (more about them being *everywhere* as opposed to them being overpowered)
- Specific nerfs to their faction (Legion stands out here; most Cryx players switched factions before the edition change or had already passed through the stages of grief beforehand in anticipation of being nerfed to hell)

Surprisingly, I've seen very little Skorne bitching in person, and we actually have more Skorne players than before the edition change.

*shrug*

I think it's an overall upgrade, with a few sore spots that need to get fixed. I think the commitment to biannual errata will help the game; it's just in its growing pains.

>>50225180
If someone attacks Rhul, then the kingdom's military will unify. Otherwise, what need have dwarves for cumbersome armies?

We've got a somewhat active and interesting Discord chat server here: https://discord.gg/KmXzbwD

Join up. It would also be cool to include in the canonical OP copypasta...

>>50226566
Facing off against Khador jacks (behemoth, juggernaut, and conquest this time). Pretty heavy laden in the hit boxes and armor category.
"lets cheap out on our main melee hitter" -1 mat, -1 fury, -2 dmg on buyable attacks. That'd never bite us in the ass....

When I see behemoth I want it dead, and I want it dead the 1st time. It's practically the only thing in the game that gets to buy more armor pierce attacks. If not for xekaars feat, plus my uber healing it would have tabbed my mammoth in a turn. He'll chew through a sentry/tibbers as easily as he chew through everything and those are our hardest armored beasts, so I don't play with the chance that it'll survive with a hanging chad hit box, some mechanics get in there next turn to tune it up and it gets another turn to rip though the sweet spot in my army (because my opponent does that, he loves to do that).

>>50226555
Jank is fun. Loss of Jank is not fun

>>50222410
Banes could be killed by blasts though. Arm 17 means sentinels aren't going to be reliably killed by chain lightning or blasts, even high explosive ones. And those are the most common anti-infantry tech. You need better than pow 10s to deal with them and that's what most anti infantry tech is, so to deal with them you need either melee or to use guns that are better spent using against jacks,

>>50228334
With an agonizer supporting them, behemoth is dice-2 on tibbers or a sentry. It's still a slow warjack that costs 2/3rds as much as a colossal. Behemoth costs more than Tiberion does.

Behemoth's melee is fine, it's the guns that are an issue.

>>50226555
>>50226568
I saw no issue with how fear worked. Fearless added a nice touch to some models, and so did terror. The only case where it seemed obscene was doomspam. And by cheese I mean some form of epic plays you would only see in newbie games, like an angry beast wrestiling away the shield off of a giant robot to dissasemble it with the free hand or trying to chain displacement to sumberge models.

>>50229927
The problem with behemoth is that while expensive, it requires no support whatsoever. It is an high arm, higu boxes large based model with both anti heavy and anti infantry tech that only needs to stay within the casters reach to wreak havoc.

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Reading the official forums of pp is fucking frustrating. I don't play Skorne, though the esthetics pleases the eye and fluff is quite spot on, I just never got around to do so. Main reason is, they where never really that good, and had quite a thin range of lists to play. And my local meta was pretty heavy on the WAAC factor.
But now, man I really feel for the players! As one forum poster said "this is starting to look like Games Workshop levels of balancing", and THAT is not a compliment!
And while the rants go on, there is this stickyness, this stench of... well, fanboyism, if I may call it that, that stays through the thread. A mixture of fear and discuss of being banned for posting your opinion to blunt and attract the eyes of the mods. And at the same time awe, a sort of "love for the game", the same hope a beaten wife has that "some day it will change" to her husband. Because there are a sturdy base of players there who is actually defending privateer press incompetence in the matter. Saying shit like "well, we cant expect pp to fix Skorne in 2 months!" "come on guys, pp is doing their best", and "Well I for one don't think the nerfs are to bad!".

I mean, there is fanboyz, and then theres the player base for privateer press who will take just about anything. What the fuck man, like seriously?!? PP sure took its sweet ass time to fuck things up, don't tell me they need just as much time to "fix" things again. Something is telling me they want to fix Skorne, but at the same time figure out a way to get people to buy more shit. I'm telling you, this whole issue with the Skorne is actually putting me of the entire game, and I don't even play the fucking faction. Its because a company I used to hold high regards to, is proving to be fucking useless when it comes to the basics of game balance, something I thought they excelled at to begin with!

am I the only one who didn't like the change with pre-measuring from mk2 to mk3?
makes the game feel a lot more clinical and boring

>>50231352
I like it. I never want to go back to playing the game without it. Too many disputes were avoided and too many plans were cleanly executed because of it.

>>50231338
>I feel so bad because the official forums tell me that there's serious problems with Skorne! How could PP do this to them?

>taking the hysterical whining on any company forum at face value
>expressing shock towards balance issues that Skorne players have been whinging about since before Mk3 dropped
>comparing Skorne's alleged points-to-value and internal synergy issues to GW's "my faction's entire unit range literally ignores your faction's primary gimmick" shitshow in 40K
>writing out three chunky paragraphs to oversell a point you could have made in one
Nice try, you silly Skorneposter.

>>50231594

Aaww, you know, in the GW threads, they call you guys "shills", but I'm not going to be that harsh on you.

But you don't seem to lack that fag-factor.. .oh, meant to say "fan-factor" I was talking about. A player that will bend over and take just about anything up the tail pipe, as long as its from your favourite game.

As mentioned, I like Skorne, Id even like to play them, but alas, I wouldn't touch that shit with a 4 foot pole. But thats not the main issue of my post, as it may seem to be. When you actually read it, when you try to comprehend what the main reason behind my post is, you will find that its the base structure of the game I'm talking about.
I'm talking about pp, clearly favoring teams while at the same time neglecting others. They are to obviously doing the buff/nerf trick that GW is famous for, just to increase sales. And in the example of Skorne, shows they are incapable of creating balance in their own game.
I wouldn't mind if Skorne was a "middle of the road team", because thats what I´d hope all teams would end up at, to get some serious balance. But they are far from it as it seems now. And they will stay that way, because fanboys like you. Just as people who cant sing enter the X-factor, in full belief they can sing, gets aggressive and in denial when hearing the truth, so likewise, Privateer press gets cheered on by fan-boys like yourself, and delete the posts of critique.

>>50226699

I'd really like to covert some Halberdiers, but I'm worried about a tornament opponent sperging out about them having spears rather than halberds.

>>50232308
under conversion rules thats fine, if you want to change a nomad Caspian Battle Blade to a large rapier that is ok, but if you want to change a nomads Caspian Battle Blade to a Mace that is not ok.

>>50232584

But an axe must be an axe, a 1H sword a 1H sword, and a halberd a halberd. A mace is not an axe, and a spear is not a halberd.

>>50179189
Skorne in MkII, now seriously debating selling off all my shit to fuel other hobbies or trying to slog through and figure out some way to not get dogfucked.

>>50231220
Yes. And for 24 points it had better be able to do those things. If I had to pay 24 points for a model that was speed 4 and could either only shoot or only melee then I would never bring it.

>>50231220
High arm, high boxes?

It's 2 more boxes and the same armor as a 10 point marauder. Behemoth got its armor nerfed in mk3, it's the same 20 as everything else now. Behemoth is paying 0.6 points per arm 20 box, a juggernaut is paying 0.35 points per arm 20 box. A crusader is paying 0.32 points per arm 19 box.